The Ringer NBA Show - The Heat Stay Alive in Game 5 of the NBA Finals with Bill Simmons | The Mismatch

Episode Date: October 10, 2020

Verno and KOC go live after the Heat outlast the Lakers in Game 5 of the NBA Finals with special guest Bill Simmons.  Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Guest: Bill Simmons Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of The Mismatch. On this episode of The Mismatch, we are going to talk everything finals game number five. We did a special Ringer NBA postgame live show on all our social media channels as our episode of the mismatch. And we were joined by very special guest Bill Simmons. Now on to the show. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show Postgame Live, the Mismatch edition. I'm Chris Vernon. and joining me as he does every Friday, and we are late tonight, especially for you on the East Coast.

Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com, aka Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candyland. Kevin, we just witnessed an unbelievable NBA finals game to say the least. Oh, my God, dude. I cannot believe we just saw that duel. Jimmy Butler, LeBron James going toe to toe this entire game, the urgency on defense, the shot making, Duncan Robinson 26 points. Are you kidding me? Oh, my, what a night. Yeah, Duncan Robinson scored 26 points in the NBA finals is about as improbable as it gets.

And then there we are in the moment where it's. It's either going to be something we see for the rest of our lives, or it's going to be something that Lakers fans bemoaned, possibly forever, but probably not. You know what I mean? They still got two games to close this thing out. But it is swing, swing, Danny Green, one of the great finals three-point shooters of all time at the top of the key. All alone, chance to ice it, give the Lakers another. their championship and instead clanks off.

Now you get a weird rebound. Marky Morris throwing the ball out of bounds. I mean, it's just so close. Like the only thing that we didn't get in this game was that like signature shot. Because you think about the the buckets that are scored down the stretch of this game. It's like frigging air ball Anthony Davis put back. It's LeBron bully ball all the way to the basket. Butler bully ball.

Yeah, it's Jimmy Butler bully ball. You know, doesn't finish. I guess you had the one, you had the big three from Duncan Robinson, no less, after I thought Jimmy Butler should have gotten the end one. Now, it didn't end up making a difference, but that was a one point game. Butler finished on a shot. They didn't give him continuation. I thought he was already going into the shooting motion.

nevertheless, it didn't end up hurting them because Duncan Robinson hit that three. But you typically in a game like this where it is like back and forth, there's like some kind of big shot or a big moment that you remember. I honestly, I don't know if I'm going to remember Danny Green being wide open and clanking that. I might remember Markeith Morris chucking that ball out of bounds. You know what I mean? But there wasn't really that play. that's the only thing though that we missed out on because we saw two of the greatest individual performances you could ever see even if if one of the guys did it it would go down in finals lore but instead one guy did it on either side and frankly jimmy butler got a little more help tonight than lebron did and that was one of the big differences tonight jimmy bottler obviously just heroic tonight 35 points 11 assists 12 rebrand

bounds, five steals, just did it all in the first half. Some of the screening actions Miami ran with Butler as the screener on the roll. The Lakers had a hard time with that end of the game on the ball could not be stopped. LeBron James tonight and Anthony Davis, they did not get the help that they needed from their teammates. LeBron and AD tonight combined for 68 points on 24 of 36, 67% shooting. Everybody else, you mentioned the Danny Green missed at the end and the Markeith Morris turnover 40 points 14 of 46 shooting and only 30% from the field.

Butler got the help that he needed creating for others. LeBron James in this tonight did not. He just didn't get the help that he was needed. Imagine if there was somebody out there that didn't love the Lakers three through eight players and didn't like how well that was constructed. That would be strange, right? Like that would be odd if there was somebody that was on a podcast every single week, one that got berated greatly for not loving the supporting cast of the Lakers.

That's you, of course. And it's you. And we do have a special guest. Oh, we do have a special guest. He doesn't. Yeah, no, I'm going to attack him. Watch this. I'm going to attack our boss right off the bat.

Bill was right there with me. He didn't love the supporting cast either, right? I listened to you and Ritzillo. and I thought you kind of backed off of it. I thought you kind of started to be okay with their supporting cast. But I was glad they shit the bed tonight, honestly. You know, they played really well the other day. It was hard to attack the supporting cast when they,

but today it was, they gagged. And LeBron has to be bummed out because the stage was set for this unbelievable closing game. He was going to have like, what, 40, 13 and 7. I thought he was going to take the game winning shot. regardless of whether they double teamed him or not. But he made the right play. Like he always does,

Danny Green gacked it. I don't know what Marquis Forrested. Did you guys talk about that yet? What was he doing? I think he was trying to throw it down to AD, wasn't he? He choked. That's what he was doing. Why was he in the game?

This is a great question. Honestly. I'll give you, I'll give you this too. Van Gundy even brought it up about him being in the game. Like, what's going on here? Because, and the reason Van Gundy brought it up is because they were trying to switch him they were getting the switch every time. Butler was getting that switch on to him.

So it's like, it's kind of like, yo, if the guy is obviously getting picked on defensively and that's what they want to get to with Jimmy Butler, I mean, are you expecting to hit some kind of massive clutch shot on the other end? Like, what's the point here? You might have some better options. Well, the reason I wanted to come on, I thought that was an all-timer.

And I don't know what you guys thought. I did not intend to come on crash your podcast. I just wanted somebody to talk about it with. that was an insane game. And, you know, there's been some great duels over the years, right? Like Dominique and Byrd growing up, Pearson, LeBron went out in 08. Very rarely do you have the dueling banjos thing that actually goes to the end of the game. But then with the stakes, and there seemed like a couple times where Miami was like, all right, valiant effort guys.

You know, it's like Rocky Balboa or Rocky one. Like, great effort. You went the distance. Keep your head up. And then Butler would make another play. And he went toe to toe with LeBron, who is one of the best three players of all time, playing at the highest level he can play at. And Butler was like, cool, I'm going to do it on my end.

I thought that was an amazing game. And not only was LeBron would, like, LeBron, we see LeBron all the time, get to the basket, create for others, but I think six threes tonight as well. I mean, that's abnormal from him. I looked up his career high, regular season. and it's eight playoffs at seven all the way back in 06. So with LeBron, we saw him doing things that we don't ordinarily see from him

in addition to everything else. I mean, he scored or assisted on 60, on a 58 of the Lakers 108 points tonight. Outrageous number. And yet it feels like it could have been so much more because the teammates just let him down. Well,

and what's crazy, Bill, I mean, that wasn't even obviously in an NBA finals with the Dominique and Bird thing, but it's one of the things out. outside of dunk contest and the Michael Jordan dunk contest. Like people to this day, if you bring up Dominique Wilkins, they bring that up. When people bring up great duels in NBA playoff history, they bring that up. It's like friggin 35 years ago, right?

It was second round. Yeah, right. So, I mean, look, the Jimmy Butler thing, this is uncharted territory because I don't know if we have ever had a player kind of. With the public perception of Jimmy Butler explode on a stage. Look, you wrote a whole book about the NBA, and so you would know much better than I, if this has ever happened before,

where a guy went from. And it feels like this whole bubble that's kind of been going on. We had Donovan Mitchell. Everybody looks at him different now. Jamal Murray, certainly. Everybody looks at him different now. And like this is like the pinnacle. And it's one thing to have his game three.

when you come back and do it a second time. Well, he was good. I thought he was good in game five too. Yeah, game four, four. Yeah, game. Yeah, yeah. In that game, Jimmy Butler willed his team to win. And that was another game from him tonight doing that.

The playoffs illuminate who guys really are. Yeah. They show their strengths. They show their shortcomings. And Butler has always been a really, really good player. And, you know, an all-star. As somebody that, you know, Chris, you've loved him for a year. years. But in the postseason, he's shown that he can do so much more with higher volume as a

score and as a playmaker. He's raised his game to another level. And for me personally, I've gone from viewing him as like maybe like the 15th or 16th best guy to pretty clearly a top 10 guy. There's not a lot of people that can do this. Has this ever happened, Bill, with any player that has vaulted this quickly simply because of like an NBA finals appearance? You know, I was thinking about that because we've seen serious. where guys kind of out kicked their own coverage, right? Like worthy in 88. He had the triple double and the, what do you have, like 36, 10 and 10.

Dumars had a really good finals that kind of put him on the map. I think Billups had a really good 04 finals. Cedric Maxwell in 81. He ended up winning the finals MVP. So we've seen guys do it. I think what's different about that, two things are different about this. One is the guy was already at a certain. level. But now I think we're just going to think of him differently because he is proven

it now two years in a row because he was doing this last year against Kauai too, he's going to head to head with him. The other thing is he's doing it basically head to head with LeBron where he's actually guarding LeBron. Usually when you have these duels, it's guys from different positions. But in this game, he's defending him on one end. He's, LeBron's not really defending him as much on the other end, but he played, what, 47 minutes tonight? He did absolutely everything. He literally just wouldn't let them lose. Robinson finally got hot for them in the second half. But other than that, it's not like he had a lot of help in this game. Neither guy really had a lot of help. It was a really special game. I'm always going to remember watching

this one. I think that's totally fair. I mean, you see, I'm watching some of the highlights back right now. And they just showed the frigging Dwight slugging him in the head. I mean, he took some hits in this game, too. You know what I mean? Like, he was down on the ground. And I thought it was interesting, Van Gundy, who I got to say, I don't know how you guys feel. I think he has been like at peak of powers in this finals. I think Van Gundy has been so good. And like there hasn't been like the annoying banter between him and Mark Jackson all that much, you know, where they're kind of doing the infighting.

Like it's really been basketball that they've been talking about. And one of the things he said, he kept saying like, this guy's got a must or something because they ain't got nothing else going. and he is gassed out. And he was. Right. I think at that point when he mentioned it, I was shocked to find he was like two of six in the second half at that point when he mentioned it.

With Van Gundy, the smartest thing he was saying at the end, I totally agree. And I don't think teams do this enough. He was just like, they have to double LeBron. They have to let these other guys. And he rattled off some of the guys.

He's like, if those guys make a shot, good luck. You tip your hat. But you want those guys deciding your fate. You don't want LeBron. I mean, that play LeBron. made with like, what, 90 seconds left, Kevin? When he drew, he did that kind of bully ball thing that he really started doing two years ago in 2018 where he, he's just like, I'm getting to the rim like he's Will Chamberlain.

And Crowder fouls him and he does that thing where he's so freaking strong. He just kind of threw it up anyway. Like, crazy. That was insane. And after he does that, I'm like, all right, I'm doubling you from now on. You're not doing anything. Plus, Davis was hurt. And it's like, who else out there is going to, go ahead, KCP.

you've been making them in the first 45 minutes, but now it's like nut crunch time. I don't think those are going in. They didn't. On that last play, that's exactly what they did. I mean, LeBron did make the right play passing that ball. And obviously, Danny Green can't hit anything this entire series, which is unfortunate for the Lakers, but it was a wide open.

Look, because Miami did what they had to do, considering LeBron was getting anywhere he wanted to. And by the way, AD just limping down the stretch of that entire game. Yeah. You know, it's hard not to at least worry a little bit if you're a Lakers fan, which I know you're not, Bill, about game six on Sunday. Well, here's the thing, because if you're in the NBA finals, I can imagine he's,

that's just pure adrenaline, pure adrenaline that he's, that he's playing on right then. And he's going to take that shoe off and that thing's going to blow up like a grapefruit. Now, with an ankle, I mean, he can, I. it for the next 48 hours. And usually you could get the swelling down, the pain down. I mean, Jimmy did it between games one and two because he busted his pretty bad in game one. And he was able to come back.

But he clearly was not moving well. Well, and then he would have, he could have potentially had this series winning basket on this horrible airball that goes right to him. It's like, really? That's how this game is going to end. I know. But I said, I said this to Kevin before you came on, Bill.

We had everything in this game, but then you think about the baskets down the stretch. It's the frigging air ball and the putback. It's Jimmy going to the foul line. And then it's like that LeBron bully ball play. I mean, everything was just missed shots and free. Yeah, but here's the thing, though. That's how you know it's gone to a different level of intensity. Because even if you watch like game seven of Cleveland Gold State four years ago, that last six minutes is just ugly.

It's three pointers and misses. and blocks and you know, I think all those guys could feel it. That game hit a point where if you're somebody like KCP, you're like, oh, this feels different.

And there's no crowd. So I don't even know what that kind of vibe is like, but I thought that one of those smart things Miami did, so they're down 1, 21 seconds left, last time out. And Butler moved fast. Oh, yeah.

He got to the rim within five seconds. Like normally you see these dudes, like the Celtics. One of the things Kevin can vouch for this, drove me crazy was this Tatum just 28 feet from the basket, like, ah, I'm just going to take my time. And it's like, just go to the hoop, get fouls.

You got to play with a sense of urgency sometimes. Yeah. And Butler did that. On that inbound, I'm glad you brought this up, Bill, because it looked like when they set up that they, LeBron was out there next to him, but then they moved it, like, quickly to get AD. So Butler was like, oh, no, hell no.

So he moved around. And so he ran straight up to the top being close to LeBron so that LeBron was going to have to be the guy that they could screen off of. He didn't want AD on him either. I don't blame him. I mean, he had AD on him like the whole game. That was a very interesting wrinkle because that was a big problem for Jimmy and the heat in the last game. And it was not. Clearly this game.

I mean, the guy just had a frigging 30 point triple double. So the AD guarding Jimmy, they were able to get him away from the basket. Like that was one thing that I thought as I was watching this, I was like, you know, I know this is work, but I would almost leave that for the switches because AD was like a frigging condor in these other games and just altered every shot. And I thought him guarding Jimmy, it got him away from the basket. And the heat got a, you know, they got a lot better looked because of that. I thought. I had LeBron Guard, Jimmy, honestly.

And then you have AD roaming around like Bill Russell. You know, the, the, when you look at, like, who played well for Miami, like, what's the list? It was none for like 10 minutes. Don't know. Robinson was really good as the game went along. I thought Bam was pretty terrible for most of that game. I mean, he was rough. It doesn't seem like he looks right.

Hero, they've figured out at least how to keep under check. And then after that, it's like, Jake Crowder is just shooting wide open three is like, what, 20, 25%. His defense has been pretty valuable. But they only played seven guys in that game, which I thought was- I would-Ewoodala had some good defensive plays as well, especially in the first half. But for the most part, though, I mean, they still gave more than what the Lakers other guys did. You know, overall, especially when you consider Duncan Robinson, 26 points, man. Like there are certain times tonight, Lakers just gave him too much space, I felt.

I mean, it's hard to defend a guy when he's running off of screens. But there was a couple of threes that he hit in transition. There was one in the first half where Rondo kind of helped a little bit too much on Butler driving, left Robinson wide open. There's other times KCP went under a screen when he should have went over. And it's just little things like that that give him that extra millisecond to get shots off. And that can't happen. because with someone like Duncan Robinson, I always remember years ago, Brad Stevens said, Kyle Corver might score 13 points per game, but you need to defend him like he averages 30.

And Duncan Robinson is the same exact type of player. And I don't feel like the Lakers defended him like a guy who averages 30 and then he dropped 26. Well, the frigging Kuzma foul on the four point play was just atrocious. I mean, atrocious. And the one that he argued it, too. You know what's the thing about Robinson? Because you think he's like this defensive liability, right? biggest play of their season, he's out there playing defense because I think he's so smart.

Spoh trusts him and it's like, all right, LeBron's going to try to get it so that Robinson's on him on a switch. As soon as he does that, I'm just going to double. And Danny Green, feel free to decide our season because that's how this is going to play out. And it's exactly what happened. And to that point, Eric Spolster has empowered three rookies, Duncan Robinson, Tyler Hero, and Kendrick Dunn's. They played seven guys tonight, three of them are rookies. And that's their whole season on the line.

Their whole season's on the line and that's who they're playing. Like Kelly O'Linnick didn't get a minute tonight. I know. You know? I actually disagreed with that. I did too. I think he brings, especially when Dwight's out there, I would throw him out there for a couple of minutes. Because Dwight just is like, what do I do?

Should Dwight be out there anymore? I don't think. I don't think so. Can I do like a 30-second rain on Dwight? Please. He was a goon. A goon. It's embarrassing.

this guy used to be one of the best players in the league and he's out there now he's like the fucking Hanson brothers he's just he's just out there just elbows shoulders hard fouls like he's gonna hurt he heard out of bio earlier in the series he almost hurt Butler tonight like he's honestly going to hurt somebody and the refs seem completely oblivious he's out there he's hitting everybody he's bumping into people it's like

what the fuck are you doing dude and how about how about when Jimmy tried to like almost tackle them right in the first half and Mark Jackson is like Dwight Howard's doing what Dwight Howard needs to do Maybe they'll both get thrown out I'm like what the fuck is going like no No no no

What is this league where you're like they care about these certain things Like uh oh his foot was nudged under the three point shooter Let's review that for five minutes And then Dwight comes out like a bull in the china shop But they're like that's cool Oh you just accidentally elbowed somebody to the face again great Oh he's so doing it on purpose Totally on purpose

Yes he's doing everything he's doing on purpose So yeah he's doing everything he's doing on purpose So yeah, he's doing all this dirty stuff purposely, but also he has not been a good basketball player. Defensively, he has not been impactful like he was at times during the season. Offensively, maybe theoretically there could be some value having him in the dunker spot for lobs. But AD has not delivered those when he's at the high, when he's at the elbow or the wing. So what value is there except for ruining floor spacing? This is Bill's greatest victory.

I've been listening throughout the season. I know you were so mad throughout the year. He's terrible. He was good. He was valuable. He was solid. He was solid off the bench, but he's not a starter. He's not a starter in the finals.

I'm so mad at Yokic, because he was doing all that goon stuff to Yokic. And Yokic was like, oh, what do I? Like, he was like taking it. It's like, you got to do what Butler did. Butler fought back. And we never saw Dwight Howard again because that's who he is. That's who he's been his whole career. If you don't play Dwight,

Do you trim the rotation to eight guys and play in Coosmo, Rondo, Crusmo? I'd go seven. I mean, think about in 2016, that Cavs team was down to seven by that game seven, right? So they played nine to seven. Who else you cut in out then? You cut in Rondo or Caruso? Or Morris? You can't cut Morris.

Oh, no, please. Please, please get. Hey, look, let me get out of the way. Please get. No, please get in a Caruso fight. Y'all too. No, I actually like Caruso's defense. Oh, you like him now.

I think when Danny Green gets like this, I think he's unplayable. Don't you think? He'll never bench Danny Green. You got to play Danny Green. You have to? You got to trust him. Who are seven then? So which two are going?

I'm not going with seven. I'm going with eight. I mean, I look, I think Rondo tonight showed the bad side of him and why the last two years Lakers fans rightfully hated him and why rightfully they didn't want him playing in the postseason. but Rondo has shown his value to the team in terms of his shot creation, especially when LeBron is off the floor. If anything, I would say maybe you don't play Rondo as much until I think didn't. They only played them for 18 minutes.

They've been playing over 20. That was a mistake. Yeah, but here's the thing. We do this. We do this analysis based upon whether a shot goes in or not. I ain't got any problem with their rotate. They don't need to change their rotation. Shit, they need Danny Green to make a damn shot.

That's what they need. Well, let me ask you this, Chris. It's a rotation fine if Danny Green bangs a three that he's wide open. Hold on. Let me flip that on you. Did you think that shot was going in? Yes. You did?

Yeah. Oh, I thought, I thought no fucking way. No way. Just because I've got like a death wish, you know what I mean? I'm sitting there thinking like this is how this really. Like now I'm going to have to hear about how Danny Green is the finals hero and he hit the shot that delivered another Laker champion. That's why. Like I just.

because I didn't want it to happen. Well, think about if he did hit it, though. Oh. It's like, think about all the mileage that, like, Steve Kerr got out of that 97. Oh, my God. Three.

Or, like, Trevor Reza or Fisher in 2009. Like, you hit one of those threes that actually swings a series. I told, I told Kevin, I said that, when we first came on, I said, but we were so close to having to see that shit for the rest of our lives. Like, for the rest.

And, and with no context, It doesn't even matter that we know Danny Green has been absolute crap. If he hits that shot for the next, till all of us die, we're going to watch that thing hit over and over again. Do you think we'll get to watch the Marquief Morris Alleyoop for the rest of their lives if they lose? I hope so. Who's that Elio to? He thought Davis was nine feet.

He had LeBron wide open on that play. Oh, was it? LeBron. I thought it was Davis. Oh, no. Ad. was under the basket. that's who he tried to get it to.

He had LeBron open. He was open on the wing. He just had to swing it to his right, but he had tunnel vision to 80 for the lob. One of the things we've been talking about is like the whole third best player thing. And that was something I was big on. And I actually do agree with Bill and Rosilla. We're probably moving into a day and age where your third best player doesn't matter as much as it used to before. Or what we always thought that was traditionally you needed to have.

somebody else when you're two. And Katavis' Colwell Pope did step up in that last game. But we have gone, we've gone for, what, three, four weeks. That guy has been Rondo. And the sneaky little thing here is Rondo has not been the offensive jug or not. He got a couple big offensive rebounds, you know, in that last game, right, that helped save some really ridiculous possessions by L.A. down the stretch. but Rondo has not been the same kind of factor offensively and just like the whole impacting

the game again he had those tip rebounds in the last one but I haven't felt like I felt like he was like an offensive problem and he was going to the basket he was one for seven runners yeah no so but what were those were those he only took two threes I he had some out of control drives I guess yes yes or took three threes he was over for three from threes. I think Miami is just like knock yourself out, Rhonda. One thing I want to know quickly to our YouTube and Twitter audience, we're taking questions

towards the end of the show. So please submit those and we'll answer some of those at the end. Do you think Dwight Howard is a goon is my question? My answer is yes. That's your first question for the day? What do you think what is LeBron like right now a half hour after that loss?

What's racing through his brain? Because he was awesome in that game. I mean, he was really, he was incredible in that I thought. Okay, let me just say this. I think he's probably thinking, what more do I have to do? He's probably looking around at the rest of his locker room with intense disdain. Davis,

you think he's side eye and Davis a tiny bit? I did think they played that reaction three or four times. You remember when Davis went down? And I thought it was wild that LeBron didn't run to him. Well, because he goes down every game. him. I know. That's like in retrospect. But like he was like holding the back of his foot. And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. Like especially what we just went through with Durant. They always say it feels like a gut, you know what I mean? Like somebody, somebody hit you in the back of the leg or something. It was non-contacted it appeared to be. And then they like play it back. And it's like, oh, his heel landed on this guy and his ankle. It wasn't even it was weird. Even when they played the replay, it wasn't like your typical ankle turn like you. like you usually see. And he went down,

I don't know, maybe guys like super dramatic, but I thought he was really hurt. I did say for sure. I think he was really hurt. And if you're not, Kevin, we're talking really hurt. Well,

I mean, like he's in pain. Like there's something that's bothering him. But to get back to Bill's question, if I'm LeBron after this game, I am looking around seeing AD banged up, seeing my guys not shooting shots. You know,

I mentioned earlier that, you know, how poorly they shot. 14 or 46 from the floor. And when you consider that a lot of those shots are wide open, like the D&E Green shot, amongst many others during the game, LeBron has to be thinking, are these guys collapsing on me? Are they collapsing on me?

And the game is in less than 48 hours. The game's in like 42 hours. Well, I'll tell you, I have some good news for LeBron. You know, I have no idea if this is true or not. It's a guess. You know who it would be seeing in game six. Oh, no. Scott Foster.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, you think he's already on a plane? No, I think he's there. He's in the bubble. He's in a bubble. Oh, he's there. Oh, yeah.

They might should have, like, faked an injury from one of the guys who brought him in at halftime. For the last three minutes. When the heat were up by 60 to 56 at a half time, they just bring him in in the second out there, like, hey, they do like the Royal Rumble music. You know what I mean? Like, maybe like John Cinas or whatever. Burr.

And Scott Foster goes, and he's like, everybody in the bowl, like, oh, Scott Foster. Scott Foster texted Adam Silver. I got this.

It is crazy because they do it. You know, look, let's be fair. When we're planning to do this, the expectation of this live show was, you got to do a Lakers coronation. And I was like,

oh, yeah, just what I want to do on a late Friday night. Stay up late. late so I can talk about how awesome LeBron is for an hour. And then, I mean, Jimmy Butler, praise you, man. Praise you. Praise you. But I'm saying they roll out the Larry O'Brien Chofi.

They're ready to go. This is going to be people are, people already have their articles written ready to press send. Kevin had a friggin, a bunch of goats behind him in his screensaver that he had to change off of. It was a joke. That was a joke. Well,

producer, Sasha, let me ask you this. What's his Zoom background going to be? I said a bunch of goats. If LeBron, if LeBron had pulled out of that double team, reset and just made a 28-footer to win the title.

Oh my God. What would have happened to the LeBron Jordan thing? It just would have been like on steroids and HGH and 100 cups of coffee after. If he had done like that kind of dramatic exclamation point, it would have been insane. All right. So here's the big question. I mean, you got a game six that they are playing in 48 hours.

If we think back, look, these, you take away game one, these games have been good. They've been good. Game two was pretty good game, right? The Lakers pulled away in there at the end. Game three obviously was the Jimmy game. And the Lakers were asleep in that game a little bit. Yeah. Game four, you expected, I think the expectation was in game four. the Lakers are going to come out with all kinds of renewed focus.

They just took a loss. They'll have an answer for Jimmy in this game. And they'll come out with this renewed laser sharp focus. And instead, they're throwing the ball out of bounds. LeBron plays a horrible first half. Like, it was all a mess. And then they pulled away there in the second half and had some really big moments. And Miami kind of, Miami didn't play well either.

None of their guys. They didn't get, I was saying this the other day to, I think, maybe even on my podcast about in the Boston series, those random quarters and halves that the Miami guys would have. And we just saw it happen tonight with Duncan Robinson, but they haven't gotten that all series. And in game six, the thing I would be worried about if I was a Laker fan is like,

Hero hasn't had one of those games yet. And every series he's had either a half or a game where he's just been like the guy, especially in the second half. And that hasn't happened yet. And we also saw like really from, what tip until maybe seven minutes left in the fourth quarter the Lakers took that lead and it was what two I think like I mean the heat were on top of them the entire game it never

like that's the big thing the heat can't let them be getting up eight and ten and twelve because that's when it turns into 16, 18 and 20 and then you're dead because now you got to really come back and it's going to be very difficult as long as they could keep scoring, then they have an opportunity to set up in their defense, do what they want to do. And I don't know, man, like, they've played pretty damn well for the last, you know, three games of this series. They're a, they're a possession or two away from, from being up three, two, as crazy as that sounds.

Hey, Kev, what would your advice? I'm not counting out at game six. I'm not count them out either. I think I think they know they know what their matchups are. They're going to hang around and they need to hit some threes. Kev, what would your advice be to Philly fans right now? Oh, God. Watch football on Sunday.

I mean, don't watch this. The other thing is increasingly becoming an out and out apocalypse if you're a sixers fan. It's an apocalypse. I mean, if I'm a Sixers fan, we already saw the Joe Allen Bede tweets recently about him, you know, expressing his disgust. with not being teammates to Jimmy Butler any longer. I'm sure he's feeling that way more and more and more every single time we see Jimmy Butler doing this leveling up. I mean, like we talked about earlier, he keeps getting better.

Are you reporting Embed to the heat? I'm kidding. I mean, I'm just saying if I'm Joelle Abed, I might want to go somewhere. Miami would be pretty nice. How about that moment when he got fouled in the last minute and he just leaned over like that table. He was so tired and it was like sometimes when players do this, they're milk in the moment. It's like they're being a little dramatic.

There was no drama at all. He was like, I'm fucking tired. I need 10 seconds here. I have so much respect for that guy. And what is he like 15 for 15 from the line or whatever the hell he was? Oh, yeah. How about,

did you guys talk about that? Those were some of the most clutch free throws. Anyone sit in the finals game. I mean, and he's dead. Yeah. When he's hitting them. You know what I mean?

He has to go to that line and you know he's cashed out. And it's just the moment. He's just freaking big balls, big balls, man. There were so many moments where end of the first half, Butler looked gassed. End of the game when he leaned over the table, like you said, Bill, looked gassed. And yet to power through that to have the toughness to hit those free throws is really remarkable. If Miami is able to win game six and we can't rule that out. You can't rule them out forcing in game seven.

The way this team plays, the system plays. the system that they have, the star they have in Jimmy Butler. I mean, like, this is one of the most memorable finals performances that I've seen in my lifetime considering the circumstances without BAM for a couple of games, without Goren Dragach still. It's, it's something else to see Jimmy Butler power in his team right now. Two things. Number one, you know, first after, after game two, it's going to be a suite.

And then, and then they win one. And it's like, oh, well, they'll just, then they're going to be. going to get, there's going to be a gentleman sweep. They're going to get rid of them in five games. Well, now we're to, we're past that, right? So now everybody's going to say, oh, well, now they'll beat them in six, I guess. I don't know. That's why you can't count them out because all along the way we've been told that the

Lakers are just going to disintegrate these guys. And instead, we're going to be watching a basketball game on, on Sunday night. Well, the Davis thing, the Davis thing is the biggest reason not to count them out because he doesn't look 100% anymore. And especially the game being played. two days later. And that's, that's great for Miami. And by the way, you know, they had some injuries too. And this is what happens. We've been in the bubble now for 10 weeks. Guys start getting hurt. I'm glad you brought up the bubble because that's what I was going to bring up to

you guys. We just watch this like epic finals game. Epic that takes place. I mean, amazing, right? Bro, it didn't make any difference that that game was played in a bubble to me. It's insane. It's insane, though. When you think about that, that there were not fans at that game. Like, it did not feel like it was any less big, to me, just as a viewer. There's even more gamesmanship because there's no fans. And you see, like, when Butler was shooting those free throws, all the dudes on the Lakers who don't play, like, JR on those guys, they're all, like, jumping up and down and yelling

and talking. There's this pickup feel to it that I think is really cool. I'm digging it. I miss having fans, obviously. It would have been cool like that Butler game three, had that been in Miami with the crowd behind him. That would have been amazing. But I think it's totally worked.

It seemed a little louder at the end of the game to me. They were playing the defense chant. It seemed louder. I'd be curious to talk to somebody who was there about the loudness in there. They cheated? No, no, no. I mean, I wouldn't surprise me if they cranked it up a little bit for some of these finals games. Why wouldn't you?

Well, that was a, that was a Lakers home game, right? It was, I believe. And by the way, they showed a view before the game of some people, like in the bleachers, you know, way up top and the nosebleeds. And I think maybe they're allowing more family in there. I wonder if there was also more people actually being vocal at the end of that game. Like I said, I want to check in with somebody who is sidelines. No, I know there's more family because if you notice, like, there's times when LeBron does a play,

and he's always looking to the same spot. Yeah. kind of to the left or the right of the camera, one of those sides. So he's got like, there must be like a Lakers section. Also, we got the pensive Pat Riley shot when they were down by one. We got, I mean, ABC, you got to go back to him. After Jimmy gets it done, we need another Pat Riley shot. I know he's got a mask on, but you could tell there was like real pain in his eyes.

Like, oh, God, are we really going to lose this frigging game? And then Jimmy coming through, I mean, because, we got, like, it was hilarious when they showed, if you guys remember what I'm talking about, they show, they're scanning everybody, and then they show Pat Riley, and he looks like he wants to die. And then they show Jeannie Buzz and she's like, you can even tell she's smiling in her mask. And she's like, you know, bouncing around in the luxury box. And I'm like, oh, this is perfect. Like, well, meanwhile, poor Magic Johnson was in New York. He couldn't be kept away, but he could only do TV. So you knew we were going to hear from him this week.

So he finally ended up on a sports center. But I don't think they're right. Yeah, he was on the bubble. He was on the sports center with Stephen A and Wilbon tonight. Oh, God. He was dying. Surely he's tweeted, right? Surely he is tweeted.

Yeah, he had a whole, he had a tweet today about it was pictures of him and Dr. Jerry Buss with trophies. No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying. Oh, it's after the game. Oh, I don't know. Did he? His post game tweet.

Oh, here we go. The Lakers might be in trouble for game six, depending on the strength of Anthony's ankle. The Miami heat controlled the Miami, I always retweet these, but I agree with magic. The Miami heat controlled the pace of the game from the second quarter to the end. I don't know if I agree with that. Oh, I don't agree with magic. Should I tweet? I don't agree with magic. Bill Simmons does not, Bill Simmons does not agree with it. I thought

LeBron controlled that whole game and Butler eventually just rose, you know, Butler had his whole run. and then LeBron, it just seemed like when he's hitting threes like that, you're just like, what do you, all right, what do you do? Because he can go to the rim anytime he wants and he's going to make 28 footers. Let's get you guys on the same page again, then, since you didn't agree with that. This is just like when you were on the ABC show, Bill. He'd superstar.

He'd superstar Jimmy Butler led his team again to victory with a triple double, 35, 12, 11. the unsung hero is Duncan Robinson with 26 points. He's not wrong. You agree with that. Okay. You loved one. I remember Magic and I argued on TV that year about the Rudy Gay trade. I know you love that because I was like, I was like, they'll be, they'll be fine.

They're not going to miss Rudy. They were in the East, they were in the Western Conference finals. Yeah, I won that one. People are still arguing that they should have been, they should have kept the Rudy gay. And I'm like, what? If LeBron, Kev, if LeBron was going to. leak something he wanted out to get out to a media crony to light a fire under somebody on the team.

Who would that player be and what would the message be? It's got to be Kuzma, right? Something about his lack of focus in the bubble. These young guys need to realize what's at stake, like one of those type of things? You never know if he'll be back. You can't take me and LeBron James for granted. These guys are. I remember I got there, no seven.

And I thought I was going to be back every year and I didn't get back for another five years. These young guys got to understand. Kuzma, look, Kuzma, for all his faults, for all his faults as a player, I got to give him credit for improving as a defender. But he has yet to have really a quality offensive performance, really all playoffs. I can't remember the last time he had a great game. He needs to step up. I mean, you talk about X factors.

Would you start him in benched weight, benched white Hanson? I think you got to bench Dwight. And I do think if you're Vogel, whether it's starting Morris or starting Kuzma, even, you got to switch something up with Dwight, like we talked about earlier. And you got to do something to try to get Kuzma going because you got to get a spark from somebody. That's the value in Kuzma. He's not a great player, but he's a solid bench player for all his faults. And good defensively, too, when he wants to do.

And that's where he's gotten better. And, you know, where I think he deserves some credit. But the offense has just been really disastrous in the entire postseason. And I can't help but think, you know, Bob Myers, there's this quote that he had at Sloan a couple years ago where he's talking about how in the, you know, there's certain guys that shoot 36%, you know, or 39% from three in the regular season. And then in the playoffs, you know, what they like to do gets taken away. Guys are more in their airspace. A guy like Kuzma, who is such a streaky shooter since college, I can't help but think he's one of those guys that falls into that bucket who's like a good regular season player, but hasn't yet been able to translate. what he can do to the playoffs against NBA playoff defense. It just seems to me like he's yet to have a game.

Where is it? Where is this Kyle Kuzma that we've seen for a couple of years now in the NBA that just can blow up for 30 points? Well, remember in the regular season, February, March range, he did that a couple of times in big games for them. And they made a big deal out of it after. Like, that's what we need from Kyle, blah, blah, blah. He's certainly the third most talented Laker.

He is. I don't know if that's saying a ton. So where's the production, though? Well, I'll tell you this. One of the things is, as we watch that game, and we talked about some of the ridiculous, you know, it got so messy down the stretch and you had the LeBron bully ball, you had the air ball that AD puts back and whatever.

I just saw a stat come up on the screen, and this is going to, and it probably shouldn't shock us as we just watch this game. Listen to this. This is the Lakers half court offense tonight. 0.94 points per possession. session, 41% from the field, 35% from three. In transition, 1.3.1 points per possession, 67% from the field, 44% from three. And that jumped out in the game.

Like, they were getting, anytime they got a turnover or rebound, they were getting easy points, which is kind of surprising. Wouldn't you think they had the advantage in the half court? but I mean, it just turns into LeBron pounding it into the ground and then he finds it open shooter and the guy freaking misses it. Like, seriously, like it's over and over again. I mean, if you're got to play Dwight Howard, you've got to take advantage of the potential for a lob to him. Because like there's, you know, we think of floor spacing as having five shooters around the floor, but there's, you know, with functional floor spacing, you can have a guy in the dunker spot that is a threat that the defense needs to respect.

and if the Lakers aren't going to take advantage of that by having 80 at the high post occasionally throwing a pass over the top to Dwight for a layup or a drawn foul, it's, there's no point in having it. And if you're not going to do that, I'm not sure why they're even going to bother playing him.

Because he's a good. They want him knocking dudes around. That's why they're playing him. Well, and to me, what this says is like, it's LeBron going downhill. When he's going downhill,

they can't do anything with, nobody could do anything with this guy. you know and he's either finding somebody he's either finishing he's finding a d you know running with him to the basket or he's kicking out to somebody who's flared out that can knock down a three but they are they're devastating in that in it like and and honestly how do you get a transition because you get stops right so once they're once they get the stop and they're out and going then they're a huge problem but the heat have been able to score since game three they really had yeah they have They have, they have scored. In fact, game two, you remember we came on and we talked about this, Kev, after game two? And I said, you know, I saw somebody posted that the heat or averaging, you know, whatever, their offensive rating was like 125 points with like six minutes left to go in the game. And they said, which is absolutely astounding, except for the fact that the Lakers' offensive rating,

this game is 140. And it was like, oh God. And so it was like, but it led us to believe, like, if they could shore up their defense, they obviously found a way to be able to score against this team because game one made it look like it was, you know, little people. You know, it was a JV versus the varsity, I think was a common refrain. Chris, can I tell you something? Yeah.

I bet on the Lakers tonight. I tried to put the kibosh on him. It was one of the few times I really dated intentionally. I was like, if they're going to win the title, I'm going to win. money on this and if I lose I don't care. It'll be great because the Lakers lost. I know, I thought it was, I swear when you said that, I thought

you were going to say your mom put a, like a LeBronje's bobblehead. Yeah, I remember that story that you told about your mom putting people in the freezer. Kyle Lowry. Kyle Lowry. Yeah. I wouldn't, I have too much respect for LeBron. LeBron's been

too great. I would never put him in the freezer. Oh, so is Danny. It's Danny Green. It's Danny Green in your mom's freezer. No, nobody's in the freezer, but Davis might have to go in there on Sunday night just for fun. It was Danny Green. She iced him out. I'd put Dwight Howard in there, but he's already an ice cube. He's already completely frozen.

Dude. I mean, he really almost got Jimmy Butler thrown out of that game. Right. I mean... I think that's what he wanted to do, though. Of course he did. It was so annoying about it. Mark Jackson was...

Mark Jackson was lauding it. Dwight Howard doing what Dwight out. how it needs to do. They might both get thrown out of the game. Yeah, one guy that sucks and the other guy that's awesome. Like, that's not a fair deal. And by the way, he really honestly could have hurt Jimmy Butler on that part. Of course he could have.

Yeah. I mean, Jimmy Butler is a tough dude, but that easily could have been like, that's it for Jimmy Butler. He's leaving the game and whatever. What questions? If that would happen to LeBrona, would have been a flagrant five. Oh, my God. They would have, they would have.

The guy would have been in prison tonight. Yeah, the FBI would have come in. Bill, this is a good question from one of our viewers tonight. This is for you. From Dylan Daniel Hoffman, where does that Markeith Morris Lob Pass rank on the worst passes in the finals of all time? I thought it was weird that he was out there.

Look, if they end up winning the title, nobody's going to care about that Marquif Morris Lob Pass. But if they end up blowing the series somehow, that game five is going to be like the Zabruder film. all the different ways that it seemed like they were one play away from putting the game away and then Butler would make something happen or that Duncan Robinson hit that huge three and then everything falling apart in the last 16 seconds like that. But yeah, we'll see.

It's a TBD, the Marquief Morris, Aleoup. I'm more amazed that he was out there. No, if we look back, though, and that's like a turning point, right? It could be like then it goes down in history, the Morris pass. Well, it starts out with the Danny Green short arm. Oh, that's true. Yeah, I mean, he almost airballed that. Should I respond to the people in game one in the first half that all tweeted me pictures of Danny Green that said, oh, I thought we didn't have a supporting cast.

I feel like they brought this on themselves, that short arm shot. Probably a little bit. I will say, though, in game four, that supporting cast was great. So that's the problem for them is they never know which game they're going to get. because none of them are that good. Right. Let's be fair. Look, Kevin doesn't cop to being a fan.

I'm a fan. You're a fan. There ain't one of those guys on that team that the Grizzlies would sign and I'd get excited about. Not one. I'm not kidding. Not Twait? Oh, you had Twight. We had it.

We cut him. Yeah, you cut Twain. Because they didn't want him around John Moran and Dwighters. Got rid of him too. Right. Yes. There's not one player that they could sign that I would be like. Oh my God, we got

fill in the blind. Could the Celtics have used Dwight Howard last round? Oh, my God. You know that's happening, Bill. Oh, my God, please God, I had to get that reaction. I had to do it.

I had to do it. I had to do it. Has it ever happened to you, Bill? Where you've gotten somebody where, like, you could not stand the guy. Like, your feelings about Dwight. But he ended up being. SELTS?

It ended up being a Celtic or a Patriot or a Red Sock or. No, I mean, Dwight, Dwight's my least favorite player of the 21st century. He is not. No, he really is. Out of all the good players, who, what was enjoyable about Dwight's career? What were the, like, the fun Dwight Howard moments? He's more fun than, like, Carl Malone. Carl Malone is like.

Carl Malone was at least really good. It's a joy. Dwight Howard was really good. He was. I just didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy his 20 and 15 and Hackaddeway and him being pouty and

his teammates were never good enough for him. I just never liked them. What about James Harden? Oh, James Hardin. I mean, he's more fun. He said like six top three MVP finishes, you know? I don't know. At least it's fun to watch James Hardin's score 60. Kevin, do you enjoy watching

Dwight Howard? Not anymore. Not anymore. I mean, I used to like watching him, play defense. I used to like watching the rim running and all that, but I never loved them. I always referred Al Jefferson when they were both, you know, young players. I liked Al Jefferson's post scoring more so than Dwight Howard's

brute force. And then of course, Big Al tore his ACL and was never really the same guy after that. Do we have any other good questions? Are they all just goofies? You know, there's some finals MVP stuff, you know, Lakers, like who has the edge for the Lakers side? Obviously it's Butler if it's Miami.

but between LeBron and now. It's 100% LeBron. Yeah. He just turned in another I do. Yeah, the 80s

the 80s ship has sailed but it's Butler or LeBron right now. Hey, let's just say this. This is how we know we watched an absolute all-time epic tonight. If you have 40, 13, and 7 and you lose, that is bullshit.

That is bullshit. 40, 13, and 7 and your team lost? I thought that was one of the five or six best playoff games or best finals games for him. I've seen from him. Yeah. Game one in 2018, I think was. The 50 point game.

Yeah. He was unbelievable that game. That's what tonight reminded me of. Yeah. There was a 2012 one of those OKC games, like game three or game four. One of those games he was like out of control. And then 16, I think it was game five. maybe one of those not the game seven like the game one of those games he had like 40 and 15 something

like that but and and and he's only outdone because jimmy butler is 35 12 and 11 and 5 steals in the game jimmy butler was on the bench for 45 seconds tonight i actually i was saying i was texting with house i thought that was a huge mistake to sit for 45 seconds no it almost lost him the I just thought, I thought they were playing him too many minutes. And he was clearly getting tired, but he got some crazy second win there with like four minutes left. And now you think of him, you know, going forward. I think he's got to be, whether we make a top seven, top eight, top nine, he's got to be in that list with all the best guys. Hey, we do have to mention too, because I crapped on him, Kevin's crapped on him.

I know you, you crept on him big time in a podcast earlier this week. And I thought the joke, the Kendrick Nunn, N-O-N-E was a very funny joke, N-O-N-E. Kendrick Nunn was huge for them tonight. He really was. I thought he was bad in the second half. Look, to get 14 out of him when he has been Kendrick Nunn, N-O-N-E was pretty spectacular. And he also, one of the big things is, okay, so it wasn't all the way great, but he got some rebounds. He got some assist.

he didn't turn the ball over. And he made some big shots that actually I was laughing so hard because I think it was Rosillo who made the observation. Like it feels like nothing he does comes within the offense. But I felt like those threes, he took them within the offense. It was swing, swing, and he banged them down. And like they needed somebody else to be. He's the only other guy besides Duncan Robinson, right?

that he's going to the key the key for him is the thing they're really missing this series that just absolutely eviscerated Boston was any high screen where bam just quickly shot at the rim and you still need the guy who can dribble and set that up and you would think well why can't hero do that well he's 20 years old he doesn't he will be able to do that three years from now but you can't rely on him it needs to be that's what draggage was so unbelievable at he's so crafty trying to he would always make the right decision right time. And when BAM went, he always got him the ball.

None is kind of their only chance to unleash BAM at all. But Kev, do you even see them being able to run that play with them? They did it twice today. Yeah, and they did it like a little bit differently with Butler as the screener in the first half a handful of times. And it was pretty effective. It didn't do it quite as much in the second half. But that's something where you do see Miami trying different wrinkles to get it going.

And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if on Sunday in game six, we do see more BAM with none pick and roll duo combinations because they got to get that going at some point you would think. You know, you might not get. To activate BAM. Yeah, you're not going to get 26 out of Duncan Robinson again. I don't think. You might not get 14 out of none for that matter.

I don't think again. So BAM, a guy who had a really rough game, you got to activate him like you said. You got to get him going. Well, and you also have to extend your rotation because you got Scott Foster. waiting for you. Look, Bill, you,

and like, Kelly, you're going to be playing tonight because BAM's going to get two fouls in the first quarter.

I tell you this, this is one of the great, one of the promising things about what took place tonight. I picked the heat. Obviously, I would not have picked the heat

if I knew that their leading scorer was going to go out 10 games or 10 minutes into the frigging game one. Me too. That being said, yeah,

you did too. That being said, this win, now I can always validate that pick no matter what. I can say, yeah, I feel the same way. Right. Okay, imagine if they would add druggage.

I mean, it's not, there's nobody, no objective fan could look at that series and think, hey, what if they had their leading scorer in there? Because they're right there. They're going to a game six without their frigging leading score. But also their best guy other than Butler to exploit the problems that the Lakers have, right? He's the exact type of guy. Like you have him. Now you can't really play Dwight

because they're going to keep getting Dwight and switches where Draggots just just beating him off the dribble. Like they did game one. Which they did in that first quarter. Right away. And they were shredding Dwight. So they made Dwight unplayable quickly.

Then all of a sudden you play him again. But I just think between that and his ability, which he did against Boston at least five times, of the shot clock is winding down. I'll just hit this step back, 27 footer with a hand in my face. they don't really have anybody else who can do that. They have guys who can make threes in space,

but not like the perky jerky threes. And Hero's really the only guy that can do it for them. By the way, that's where Miami did a pretty good job tonight by force-feeding shots to Duncan Robinson. One of my friends who works in the league, the whole postseason has been texted me, they got to get Duncan Robinson more shots, got to feed him more looks.

Why are they not getting him more shots? He's the best shooter remaining in the playoffs. Tonight they did that. They did that tonight. And that's something from Miami. They have to replicate that as best they can on Sunday. I'm sure the Lakers are going to go into the film room and see that there were situations. They could have given him less airspace than they did.

But it's still hard to defend a guy like that. That's so potent and gets the ball off in 0.7 seconds after the catch. It's outrageous how good he is off the catch. And how much better he's going to be three years from now. Yeah. Because all the stuff he's doing, he'll be better at. Get stronger. The dribble gets better.

He adds, you know, shots off the dribble to his right to his left. He can get way better than he already is. Here's the big question. Are you betting the Lakers on Sunday, Bill? Do they need me to come in off the top rope again? I think I might have to. Just out of principle. You just don't want them to get their 17th title, right?

Well, that would have to be six titles from now. I just want them to earn it. You threw an out with you, Chris. I feel like Miami is at least. making them really, really, really earn this now. Have you heard this, Kiv? He refuses to acknowledge the Minneapolis titles in the Lakers folklore.

Well, let me ask you, Chris. If the Vancouver Grizzlies said what a title in 1998, would you be like, hey, we got one? We got one. It just wasn't when they were here, but I'm counting it. You would never count that a million years, ever. Would you? No, it's hilarious because every once in a while,

they'll be like a, there'll be like a trivia question. And they'll be like, Jared Jackson is the first rookie to have, you know, 25 and 10 in a game since. And the answer will be like, Sharif Abdurahima. It doesn't count. Like, no, no, no, we're not doing this. Like, if it happened, since they've been the Memphis Grizzlies, okay.

But like, it can't be Othella Harrington can't be the answer. I get it. Where do you stand on this, Kev? It's a really important question. Where do you stand? I mean, it counts for the franchise. I'm not sure if it counts for the city, if that makes any sense. Like the St. Louis Rams, for example, does it count for the current Los Angeles Rams that they won it in St. Louis?

Or does it just count for the Rams that was once in L.A., went to St. Louis, then back. I mean, it counts for the Rams. Are you talking people from L.A., they have no problem count in the Minneapolis titles. They may as well count that St. Louis Rams. What other ones can they count? Do they count the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1955? Yeah, add that to our list. It's unbelievable.

You only can count the titles that your team won in your city. Big Mican fans, right? Listen, big Mike and fans. Chris, give us your top five favorite Vancouver Grizzlies moments that somehow you now own because they move to your city. I think, I think, was it the, There was one, there was one of the Jordan things. Was it the last dance?

Or there's, there's one of those like Jordan stories. Oh, yeah, they did in last dance. You're right. Yeah, it happened about the, it happened against the Vancouver Grizzlies. There's literally like nothing that happened with the Vancouver Grizzlies. And you got to remember when they moved, like the only holdovers, big country never played a game. They traded Sharif Abduraheim for Pau Gasol on draft night. They traded Mike Bibi and got Jason Will.

Williams, they, the only one that, well, I think was held over, really that like, there was like Grant Long and like some of these older guys, Tony Massaberg, but like the only guy was like Michael Dickerson was the only guy, though. And then Michael Dickerson had like a career ending leg injury. He was like the only. You had the LeBron pick. Stop. That was the Vancouver legacy was Otisthorpe for. this pick six years down the line. That was what? It was like

top, top one protected and then they ended up getting the second pick. Wasn't that what it was? Yeah, it would have been Carmelo. That would have been. It would have been Carmel. All right, which is worse? The, it was a pit, it was Otis Thorpe. It was Odis Thorpe was the deal. Okay. That was a deal

done by Stu Jackson, who is now one of the elder statesmen in the NBA. Right. Which is worse? Otis Thorpe. for the pick that turned out to be Carmelo Anthony or Philadelphia getting rid of Jamie Butler. I mean, the Oda Storpe thing, teams made dumb, dumb ass trades like that in the 80s and 90s where they would just be like, here, take our pick five years from now and never realizing it was going to come back to hunt them.

The Butler thing, it really seems like I came down to. They didn't want to give them a fifth year. Like, that's what everybody, Kevin, have you heard any other intel other than that? Butler also wanted to go to Miami. Right. Would he have stayed in Philly if they gave him the money? I mean, maybe. Maybe he would have.

But when he was in Minnesota, all the noise around the league at the time was that Jimmy wanted to go to Miami, that he wanted to be traded to Miami. And that the heat, you know, in Minnesota weren't able to come to agreement because Tibido wanted more. He ended up screwing himself. So he always wanted to go to the heat. And I'm sure, you know, you know, revisionist history says, you know, Philly blue. it they may have in some ways considering the success they had but it's not like miami came out of

nowhere he had he had eyes on them for over you know really a year all right as we're wrapping up and thank you to everybody that has watched us let's just get a final say on this do we think the heat can actually win the series anything's possible yeah they i think they're an incredibly tough team i have an incredible amount of respect for them and i think they are like michael myers like you have to chop the head off. It's like, oh, we killed them. It's like, no, he's back up again. Oh, no, we set him on fire.

No, no, he's, he's out. He's the fire out. He's back. Conspiracy theory. LeBron allowed them to throw it to Danny Green. And no, no, hold on. He threw it to Danny Green and whatever. I'm not saying he threw it to him to miss the shot, right?

I'm saying if he missed a shot, it ain't the end of the world. Because I'm smart guy. If I close this out on Sunday night, then I'm going to get all of the, it's Sunday night. Everybody's talking about it. Then Monday, everybody's going to be talking about me all week. I can't win this title on a Friday night. Chris, Chris, this belongs on the conspiracy subreddit. This belongs on the conspment.

Put it over there. My tinfoil head. Even I can't support this one. Yeah. Put it on the, please put it on the conspiracy subreddit. That's where it goes. Here's what LeBron was thinking today. He was like, I want to win the title and get the third.

fucking out of the bubble and be back of my house. I want to be with my family. I want to be with my family in my bed. I'm holding the title. That's my dream for eight hours from now. Well, I'm going to stay up for two hours to read Ramona Shelburne talk about the infighting and the Lakers, a team coming apart at the seams. Oh, my God.

I'm kidding. One unnamed Lakers said, dot, dot, dot, dot. Wondered where Kyle Kuzma's been all series. Rondo, who was. was such a huge factor at the beginning of the series, you know, told the guy. Listen, Rondo will absolutely go

a little locker room lawyer when things get dicey. He has done it on multiple teams. Oh, yeah. And he may walk in there tonight and walk straight up to Marquis Mores and say, you dumbass. You just cost us a title, baby. You just

threw the ball into the stands. It was bad. That was an amazing game, though. Jimmy Butler is the greatest thing that has ever happened in my life. Memorable, memorable, awesome game and Sunday night, which I can't, what football game are they going against? What is it, Carolina? Carolina game.

That's not Sunday night, right? That's during the day. It's a Philly Pittsburgh? Huh? The Sunday night game is. Vikings Seahawks. Oh, that'll be a good game. That's a really good game.

Dalvin Cook, Russell Wilson. Vikings are terrible. Justin Jefferson. I think he's a good offense, though. I kind of like the Vikings in that game, Chris. You do? I do. I think Seattle's defense is hot garbage.

It's going to be a high school. All right, then I'll just take the over. That game, that game six. So if they somehow don't take care of business in that game. Then Scott Foster. The game seven. Scott Foster comes back. And Mark Davis.

David Stern comes back to life. That's the third riff. Rejuvenated. Oh, goodness. Scott Foster. Diane Cannon. No, no. They bring it, no.

You know what they do. They bring in magic? No, the booth guy. What's his name? Steve Gabby? Jeff. Yes. Javvy.

Yes. Please no. Oh, man. He's been helping us all season, but he's actually going to officiate the game tonight. That'd be amazing. Well, what are LeBron's final stats now? He's got to be at like, what, 30. and nine, something like that?

On the series, he's, this series? Yeah. This series, he's averaging 30.2 points, 8.2 assists. And on those assists, he's creating 22.4 points per game. So he's creating 52.6 points per game in the series, which is pretty incredible.

And he's like nine rebounds a game too, right? Nine rebounds of game too, playing really strong defense as well. He's the finals MVP if the Lakers closes us out. That's for sure. He's the creator. He's the engine. 38. LeBron. Jesus. I know it's late on the East Coast, Kev.

Dream of Danny Green clanks. And then we will reconvene. You and I will talk on Tuesday. Thank you, Bill. Yeah, thanks for let me crash to Zoom. I was so excited to talk to other human beings about that game. It was really great. Thank you so much for joining us, Bill.

This was fun. What a night. Good seeing you guys. Unbelievable. Yep. Thanks to everybody for watching the Ringer NBA show post-game live. featuring The Mismatch and we will talk to you on Tuesday.