The Ringer NBA Show - The Heat Steal One in Philadelphia and the Struggling Spurs Need Kawhi | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 250)

Episode Date: April 17, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor discuss the Miami Heat vindicating themselves against the Philadelphia 76ers (0:40) and Joel Embiid’s frustration at not being able to play (12:08). Then they talk about the Spurs’ chances to keep their series against the Warriors competitive (18:10) and whether the Kawhi Leonard mystery will ever be solved (21:45) before previewing tonight’s games (35:02) and debating whether LeBron James will be able to carry the Cleveland Cavaliers through the first round (47:15). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin Coachella, I hoped. But the NBA playoffs, I hope. But the NBA playoffs, I hope. But the NBA playoffs, and I understand you were not able to go to Coachella. I wish, Chris. Granted, it was an unbelievable weekend. It would have been nice to go to Coachella, but have work obligations watching the wonderful NBA playoffs. And it was outstanding, wasn't it? It was outstanding. We have a ton of storylines, not the least of which was last year. evening, which saw one of the big series tied up. Everybody was talking about the 76ers for 48 straight hours, and there were the Miami Heat and Duane Wade nodding that series up. Crazy.

And it was, like, I mean, this was like a time machine, right? This was Dwayne Wade, the best player on the floor last night, and the heat ended up. It looked like it was going to get a little, like, I mean, watching this game, looked like it might get a little dicey there in the fourth quarter. quarter, and then he comes up with like two or three big plays in a row and obviously a dagger shot there at the end. That was, I mean, this is what we love about the NBA playoffs, right? The moment in which Dwayne Wade, you know, turns a clock back a decade. It was a lot like two years ago, Chris, when Wade out of nowhere after struggling the end of the regular season, started jacking

up threes in the Charlotte series and turned the clock back then. It's impressive to see him doing it now, and it's even better that it's back in Miami. And you've got the whole Dwayne Wade being back in shape. You know, I read Haley O'Shaughnessy's right up on last night's game. And one of the things that was interesting in there was there has been much made of the whole body fat, right? That he is in a much better shape now in Miami than he was in Cleveland. And part of that is not just, hey, Dwayne Wade decided he need to get in better shape. It is mandatory when you play for the heat.

and I believe the number was 9% that you get, I didn't, I knew that they were stringent upon being in elite level shape. I did not realize they are tested for body fat twice a week. Did you know that? It's crazy. No, I mean, I do wonder, kind of, I mean, obviously that seems a little bit extreme, but I do wonder, obviously I covered David Fisdale and he brought a lot of those thoughts, like all of the like he brought all the heat stuff

and like they like you know if you like went and played in Philly you didn't get cheese steaks on the plane after you left Philadelphia you got salmon and rice that's what you got much to the chagrin of Zach Randolph and the rest

of the team sounds good you getting me hungry is this house of carbs? No but like you this kind of stuff where you you were to eat clean and you got tested for body fat all the time.

And you wanted to be the team that was in the best shape. And I do kind of wonder why more teams don't subscribe to that. But there was, Dway, I guess the big question is regarding last night, you know that inevitably teams are going to make adjustments for a second game, which of course Miami did. And the team that loses, especially if they lose by a wide margin, are going to make the most extreme adjustments. And then the other team is going to have to deal with them in the, you know,

the next game. That being said, is this a, you know, no pun intended, a flash in the pan, or do you think this is sustainable being that Dwayne Wade can be like, maybe not the best guy, but that we could see enough of these Wade performances that this could be an upset? I don't even think it's about Wade as much as the Miami defense, to be honest with you. I think the adjustments they made against Ben Simmons were, really interesting because all season long and in game one, they had their primary defender, whoever it was, whether it was James Johnson, Josh Richardson, or Justice Winslow, whoever they threw at Ben Simmons, they had the player sag off, right?

Whereas last night in game two, they had him pressure Simmons. And I think it really slowed down Philadelphia's offense. They were very stagnant. Miami racked up deflections last night. They had only eight steals, but the Philadelphia 76ers weren't in their same offensive rhythm partially because of that pressure on Ben Simmons. It was odd. I mean, Simmons, look, he still had an outstanding game by the numbers, 24 points, nine rebounds, eight assists, only two turnovers, 10 and 17 shooting, two blocks. He was fantastic. He was really

good, but their offense was a little bit off, and I think a lot of it was due to, from the start, they were pressuring Ben Simmons and throwing the team off their rhythm a little bit. I think that's where Philadelphia is going to have to make a counter adjustment in order to account for the fact that Miami is now pressuring Ben Simmons rather than sagging off of him. Yeah, so what they did in the second half was they tried posting him up a little bit more and not just pressuring him. I mean, Winslow picked him up the one possession 94 feet and then drew the foul on the other end and then called him a bitch ass.

And Winslow had a really strong game too, right? Because in game one, it was, I believe it was Richardson started off the game against Simmons, which was unusual because during the regular season, it was usually. Johnson and Winslow, but they turn back to Winslow for the most part against Simmons in this game. It's odd because they're just throwing different guys, different looks at Simmons, and I like that element of almost confusion in a way where you don't know where you're going to get because that allowed them to put Richardson on Redick and Bellanelli. And Richardson is their best defender and he's probably their second best player.

We had an argument about that last night in the ringers offices, who is Miami's second best player. I think it's Josh Richardson. You think Josh Richardson is the second best player on the Miami Heat? Are you saying Dragach is one? Yes. Okay, so who's two? All right, so let me start from the bottom. 15 is Whiteside. Actually, 15 might be

a bot, out of bio. Atabio and Whiteside last night, by the way, we're one of six with 4,003 turnovers. I mean, you want to talk about useless. Holy mackerel. Bam's going to be really good, but he's still just Herrokey. Bam's not there 15th. But that was the source of the argument.

It's where does Whiteside rank? Because I had it. One, it was Dragich. Two, Richardson, because he's an all-N-Ba defender, good complimentary offensive player who can pass. He can score from different levels. I think he's clearly number two. I'd probably take Drogich, Wade, and then James Johnson.

That's what I'd take. I think I'd also take Johnson ahead of Whiteside as well because his defensive versatility, his ability to space the floor, great rebounder for his position, can play small ball with them, can slide him at a forward spot. White Sott is their fourth best player in my opinion. I don't think that's crazy at all. Oh, I put him 15.

You're much higher. He's useless. Do you see him he lazy too? He's not doing anything. Yeah, it's a issue. You know what I mean? Like, this is the moment where I know, listen, there's two ways to go about this, right?

You can either be rendered useless, okay, because of the way that the other team is playing, or you can take advantage of that. And if you're a big time player, you take advantage of that. You go, I'm the, I'm the biggest guy out here. I'm going to smash these folks, right? Fine, stay small. Watch what happens, right?

That's the thing that bothers me is two years ago, he was outstanding on defense. One of the best room protectors in basketball, right? I mean, he's the reason why he was an all-N-Ba guy that year. But this year especially, and last year, too, to an extent. But this year especially, White Sides play has declined significantly. And part of that could be because of the game. the nagging injuries he's had, but a lot of it's just effort, right?

I mean, the poor screening, I mean, he's not a good passer. He can't space the floor. In game one, especially, I had something about this in my article yesterday on the ringer where it's like, he's just letting guys blow by him. There's a lack of focus, and that's problematic because Miami needs him.

They need him to be the great Hotson-Whiteside like he was two years ago, I think, to really win this series. I still favor Philadelphia in it. despite the win last night, but they need Whiteside to really elevate his game, especially if Joe L. Embed comes back. That's interesting, because I would go the opposite direction. I would say never put him out there.

I'd say they'd be better off if he played zero minutes. You know what I mean? I mean, we can get through it later, but I mean, there are some of these guys where I just say, okay, it's a negative, so just don't play. He's unplayable in this series. Kind of like not to jump ahead, but kind of like with the Spurs deciding not to go with Kyle Anderson. Like he just doesn't have the foot speed and a series. against Golden State, so they just don't play him, right?

They just increase the minutes of other guys. The other one I watch is in Cleveland because I lived it. I lived the Jeff Green experience. And, you know, I joked on Twitter with you. I said, if LeBron wins with a team that plays that starts Jeff Green, then he just, like, I'm moving him above Jordan because it's just impossible. Like, listen, everybody always likes Jeff. Jeff is a great guy, by the way, great guy.

He is also, he's just like you, I just don't think you can win with the guy. I just don't. It's like he has a great personality, but. Yeah, and you know what every coach says? Every coach's answer for the last 10 years has been, we need more of Jeff Green, rather than we need less of, right? You'd be better off if you got less of him. But instead, weirdly, they always think they need to get him more involved.

And the answer is always they need to get him less involved. And so, yeah, in this pie in the sky scenario, it'd be great if you got awesome Hassan white side. But that guy's gone. That guy's gone the second he signed that contract, frankly. And I got no use for him. I'd play him zero minutes. I swear to God, I would.

I'd play him zero. And I think I'd have a better chance. If you're getting this version of White Side, I'm with you, but you need to at least consider the chance that you do get the great White Side, even for 10 minutes. That could help change a game. No, the only way I play him is if Embedd comes back. Then I have to.

Maybe we'll see Thursday night, Game 3. Embed seems to want to come back. It's possible. He sure is healthy. I'll talk about that. One other moment or one other thing on this particular game, a lot of the focus has been on the heat's adjustments defensively and what they did against Ben Simmons or whatever else.

One of the major points, I think, from watching that game is the Sixers defense, and it just was not what it has been. And I do think that that is so much of what took place over the course of that game when the heat were starting to pull away, it was if you're having to play half-court basketball against them and they're able to get the stops and they're able to get out in transition, then you are really behind the eight ball if you're the Sixers because so much of what they do can be devastating in getting out on that break. Simmons, when he's got a full head of steam, being able to go to the rim or find shooters, but they just couldn't get stops. Therefore, they're having to play this half-court basketball, which exposes the fact that Miami-A,

Amies changed their defense. They've got Johnson on him some possessions. They've got Winslow on him some possessions. And so when you're always taking the ball out of the basket, it felt like for a long portion, I felt like, yeah, their offense is failing them, but their offense is failing them because their defense is failing them. Because they're taking the ball out of the basket,

damn near every possession, it seemed like, you know? For sure. Anytime, I mean, that's the thing. Like, with Ben Simmons, he's at his best in the open floor, right? And anytime you're able to get Ben Simmons going downhill against the defense that's not set. He's pretty close to unstoppable when you consider his playmaking ability

and his athletic at-room finishing in Philadelphia wasn't able to get that at all last night. All right, let's get to the M-Bid. I guess it was an Instagram post, right? Where he was sick and tired of being babyed. He even used an expletive. I thought the Brett Brown quote asked about this after the game

was rather interesting because he totally stood up for M-Bed and said it comes from a place of competitiveness and we've talked about this and I know he's frustrated. All he cares about is winning. But it was fascinating to see him say, I'm sick and tired of being babyed. It was a, I don't want to say an assault because that's probably a strong word. But it certainly was a shot at the training staff and the idea that he is being forced not to play.

And he wants to be out there. What do you make of it? Do you look at it and you say, well, he's just being competitive? I mean, this is a guy that we obviously saw him on the court for the most amount of games that he has ever played in his life this particular year. Last night was the first time where I thought maybe he doesn't trust the process. You know what I mean? Like he doesn't trust it in this case, right? He has trusted it all along the way.

But now when it matters most and they're losing and the training staff says, there's a danger if you're playing here and a danger that we're not willing to take yet. I don't know. What do you make of Embed kind of firing off after the loss last night or I guess in the middle of it? Well, I think Brett Brown nailed it, right?

It comes from a place of competitiveness. Embed is a competitor. He wants to win. He wants to destroy Hassan Whiteside, right? That's what Abed wants to do. You can't blame him for not wanting to play in the playoffs. But it's also important for whoever is making those decisions

to think long term. Joel Al-Beed is 24 years old. He hasn't played since March 28th, I believe, was the game against the next, his last game, March 28th. With Joel Embed, you need to think long term here. You need to make sure that he doesn't re-injure the face. That's important short term. You also need to consider that he's in the right conditioning for when he does return.

We don't know what he's done over the past couple of weeks since he's been out. We don't know what type of condition he'll be in once he returns. You need to assure that when he does come back to the court, that he doesn't have an elevated risk for injury with any of the other issues he's had, knees, legs back, whatever else. He's had a lot of problems. That's the most important thing is his long-term health, right? So they need to make sure that he's right, he's ready to come back. He did clear concussion protocol.

That's the important thing. So to me, I read it as the decision to hold him out. That's about conditioning or about some risk for injury with his face. Yeah, there is a lot of risk involved. And I mentioned on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. I lived this with Conley with the broken orbital wound. He just was not the player that he was. So some of it is, can you help as much as, like, we all think that, hey, if you had Joel and Bede, you just get full on, you know, one of the best players in the league, Joel Embed.

But that injury is a bitch, man. It really is. And it is very difficult to be great while wearing that mask and going through it. I mean, there's just so much adjustment that you have to make. Now, the first game, you'll be able to get through just sheer adrenaline because you're back out there. but if the games become every other day, then it becomes a really difficult thing. And obviously, they're not,

they're not in a must-win situation now, right? So it's kind of risk-reward at this moment, don't you think? You also don't want to put yourself in a must-win situation either, though. It's going back to Miami now. Well, that's fair. Yeah, if you lose both games in Miami, I bet he plays game five. I have a hunch he'll play game three.

But if he doesn't play, clearly there's a significant, and concerned for re-entry in some form or fashion, whether it's a face or something else. Look, Joel B is the guy who can change a franchise. You can't be thinking short term here. If you're at the 6th, granted, it's frustrating that he's not playing. You need to be thinking about the next 10 years as well. That's fair. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it.

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All right, a bunch to get through. It feels like the spurs were better and it's just not good enough. Yes. obviously got Lamarcus Aldridge going with the 34 points and the 12 rebounds and you still end up losing that game by 15 points last night. Clay Thompson was awesome, had the 31 in the game last night. And so that's kind of my takeaway. It was like, all right, Spurs, they look better. They're up at halftime.

And then it's still, it's just not enough. They don't have the horses. They just don't. They don't have the talent gap is too great. Yeah, exactly. You nailed it. It felt like San Antonio kind of outplayed Golden State. It felt like they outplayed them for large portions of that game until Golden State just started hitting ridiculous shots at the end of the game.

San Antonio came in with a really good game plan. They limited Golden State from getting to the rim. Lamarcus Alders was outstanding playing aggressive, really aggressive getting low post positioning. He dominated that game last night, 34 points on 11 of 21. from the field. He was fantastic. Once again, San Antonio didn't shoot well, and yet they still

really were competitive throughout the whole course of the game. It's really as simple as that. It's about Golden State having a significantly higher talent level. That's really all there is to it with this series. All right, well, hold on. Let me just interject this. Is it possible, though,

okay, that we are preemptively calling this a non-competitive series. And I only say this because for whatever reason, and this was the first time in seriously like 20 years, the spurs were, they weren't just like okay on the road, like a 500. They were miserable on the road all year. They were 14 and 27.

I mean, they lost damn near two out of every three games they played on the road, whereas they're 31 and 8 at home this year. 31 and 8. And they go back home. They go back home for a game 3. I check the lines are already out on the game. They're only like a 3-point underdog in that game.

Listen, game three is usually the one that you get anyway, first home game, even in series that aren't that competitive. If the team that you think is the vast underdog is going to catch a game, it's usually game three. They got their crowd behind them. Their backs are totally against the wall. The other team just, it's just impossible psychologically to, you know, feel like it's a must-win situation. And so it would not shock me at all if the Spurs were able to win game three, especially given their home record.

But are we already throwing them out before we even see them play at home, which obviously, listen, this year, they had the second best home record in the whole league. Both the Raptors and the Rockets were 34 and 7 at home. San Antonio was 33 and 8. So do we need to see them play at home first before we decide that they're dead in the water? They're dead. The answer is no for Kevin O'Connor. But we did get two and a half competitive quarters last night, but I still think it's going to be a sweet.

But they're dead. Sorry. Kevin O'Paul Bearer. You put him on them on. Kevin O. Paul Bear put him under. You know, you're really cool is if out of nowhere, just Kauai comes back. It's miraculous. Like, game three.

Out of nowhere. How about this? How about they drop him out of the rafters like the wrestler's thing? Like, he just comes down on a wire. He goes down on a wire and he just shows up a place in the game. Oh, man. All right, so we got to talk about this because, All right, Isaac, played the clip last night.

This is Popovich after the game. Talking about Lamarcus Aldridge. Lamarcus has been a monster all year long. He's led our team at both ends of the floor. He doesn't complain about a darn thing out in the court. He just plays through everything. I can't imagine being more proud of a player as far as playing through adversity

and being there for his teammates night after night after night. He's been fantastic. It doesn't really feel like that was necessarily about Lamarcus Aldridge. I know. I mean, it was, but I think there was another recipient of said quote.

Yeah. Yeah, I think so, especially because Pop doesn't pass on a single opportunity to refer to Kauai in his group. Every time it's about, well, you have to ask Kauai in his group, Kauai and his team, Kauai and his guys. whatever. And that certainly did seem like a little bit of shade against Kauai.

Do we know what his group is, by the way? Like this is become the great mystery too. Like I haven't seen anybody profile the group. It's a pretty good idea, actually. I wonder what kind of access you can get. Go to New York, talk to Kauai and quote unquote Kauai in his group. Be interesting. This is the greatest mystery. Who is the group? Who is this mysterious group of people that, uh, it's probably

Sean Hannity. It's Michael Cohen and Sean Hannity. Kauai is the mysterious fourth client. In actuality, that's why Popperich and Leonard are at odds,

right? That's what we're going to find out. He's super conservative. This has nothing to do with basketball. It's quads fine. That article in the Washington Post was actually not about Spurs fans. It was about Kauai Leonard. We figured it out.

Here on the Ringer NBA show. You heard it first. You found out. Here's our headline. Nothing's wrong with his leg. They just disagree politically. Kauai Leonard, a secret conservative. The real reason Kauai Lennard's had odds with Craig Popovich in the state of

Tonya Spurs. He is certainly conservative with his words. Yes. I mean, that's the damnedest thing because you just don't know, right? Like you don't know what is going on. And now you have this whole Kauai and his group, which would lead you to believe, I mean, a group is obviously, I think several people, right? Several people that are involved.

And I mean, I don't know. You never see Kauai Leonard with anybody per se, right? ever see him. I mean, you don't even hear him talk. Much of the less have a, have a group. It is, the whole damn story is so bizarre. He is the antithesis of a guy who would be described as having a group, right? Remember how much trouble Phil Jackson got in for talking about LeBron's posse? And it was taken, and obviously LeBron didn't like it and Jackson got rightfully killed for saying it. But what he was attempting to say was that he's always got like his group around him.

This group of guys, they have molded or helped mold, certainly LeBron, into one of the most successful athletes, certainly financially by the time, as all said, done, maybe the most financial successful athlete of all time. And these guys are not like hangers on. These guys have been his buddies since high school and have been a very close-knit group of which everybody is aware of, right? Like, everybody knows Maverick Carter, everybody knows Rich Paul,

everybody knows all these guys. And that's, you know, LeBron's group. Who the hell is Kauai's group? No matter who it is, right? It doesn't matter who it is if it's Michael Cullen or it's his best friends

from high school. Why does Popovich constantly throw shade at the group? Because, look, Pop said that, with Lamarcus Aldridge, they reconciled a relationship. They figured it out, right? They figured it out last year and what happened.

Aldridge had one of the best seasons of his career, right? This year with San Antonio, they worked it out. So with Kauai, it's odd that he's just not deflecting these questions because Kauai, when he last spoke on, I believe, March 7th, he said, you know, I'm trying to get back. I want to be back. You know, I talk to the Spurs. Popovich knows where I am. It's not like I just left, right?

That's what Kauai said on March 7th. So if that's true, let's say Kauai is telling the truth about that. Why would Popfich just be like, you know what, he's just not ready? We mutually agreed that this is best for him to be away from the team working out in New York. Simple as that, because it's also been reported, I believe, by either Michael C. Wright, forgive me if I'm wrong, but someone reported from San Antonio that the Spurs have two representatives there in New York, kind of keeping tabs on the situation. So it's like, wait a minute here.

If all that's true, why constantly throw shade at him? Or maybe it's not true. And in actuality, this could be just as bad as people think it is as they perceive it to be. Okay, obviously in the absence of him talking, we're never really going to know the whole truth. But let me just play devil's advocate on the whole, hey, Kauai is in the, I'll play the Kauai is in the right here, card, right? Okay. That maybe Kauai sits back and though we will never know. because he's never going to speak.

And in a moment of truth, if you just got a chance to sit down with him, he would say, listen, all right, this thing still bothers me. And you know why the reason it still bothers me? And yeah, they did clear me two months ago. But they cleared me, they've cleared me over and over for the last five years. And now all this money's on the line. And he's like, and I don't trust it. It's hurt. The reason I'm still hurting is because I played when I shouldn't have been playing.

and they always cleared me to be playing when I'm just saying that is a possibility, right? That you could have a level. I don't think this happens unless there is a level. I know it doesn't happen when you started getting your own guys and go doing your own thing away from the team unless there is a level of mistrust. And so then I say to myself, okay, why is there a level of mistrust? Now, you know, the dastardly thing would be to believe that he's got bad people around him filling his head with nonsense. The more likely scenario is that distrust came from someplace that was real. And he looks at it

and he goes, I'm still hurting because, yeah, that's fine. They can say they clear me all they want and they can come and they can bash me for not playing. But they cleared me before and still hurts. And so, F that whole, they cleared me stuff. Like, I've been playing through it for the last whatever years, and I'm still not right. And so do you want me to risk my whole career because these people that have told me the whole time you're fine, I'm not fine. You know what I mean? I don't know.

It's like we alluded to earlier with Joe L.N. Bid, right? He's got a long career ahead of him. Kauai is still only 26 years old. He turns 27 this June. Next season, he'll only be 27. He has a lot ahead of him in his career. And if you're Kauai and you have, okay, let me let me, let me, let me, to take a step back here. This is a general statement. This isn't about Kauai. This is general.

With athletes and entertainers and all these people like the media and their groups, quote unquote, create this perception that we have of them. And sometimes we create that perception ourselves when we're watching them or listening to their music or watching their movies. We create an impression of them as a person. And oftentimes the people are a lot different than the way we perceive them. So with some players, we might perceive them as a team first guy, always about the team. You know, he's going to sacrifice. But maybe that guy also wants to be the go-to guy.

Maybe he wants to experience having the limelight. And we don't know if that's the case with Kauai. We don't know. We'd be lying if we acted like we did. But the fact is that there's nothing preventing that from being the case. Because we've seen it in the past where guys aren't who we're. who we thought they were. So there's nothing wrong if Kauai wants to be the guy somewhere else.

If it's more than distrust, if it's more about like, hey, I want to be like James Harden and score 30 points a game and actually start handling the ball and rack up 10 assists. He's like, I feel like I'm capable to be the guy. I already won the championship.

I don't want to sacrifice anymore. I don't think that be such a bad thing. But I do think also, you know, even just saying that, it simply could be, as you said, Chris, he's just not healthy. Like, it really could just be that. and he wants to get back to 100% and return to the floor as he said he did.

And it might be, guess what, with San Antonio for the next 10 years? Well, because he's got a lot that is, he's got a Supermax at stake. He's got, you know, Jordan just started, you know, not only did they sign him up, they just started promoting him right before, like, this season was about to start. Doing commercials too. Yep. Yeah, right. So, I mean, he's got a lot hanging out there.

And you know what you don't want to happen? Sign your big shoe contract. and have a major company behind you that's ready to promote you, and you become Derek, Rose. You know what I mean? And you try to play, and then you get hurt again, then you get hurt again, and next thing your career is not what you wanted your career to be.

So I don't know. I really don't know. The other thing I would say is, and I mentioned this, if you recall, about, I don't know, probably four or five months ago now, I really wonder. I've wondered this so many times if this happens, if Duncan's there, I kind of think it doesn't.

You know what I mean? Where if there's somebody that you were accountable to, I think you look around, you go like Tony, Tony Parker's, you know, obviously old now, as is Manu Genoblee. And those guys are certainly elder statesmen of that Spurs franchise, but they are also not the leader slash it's his team. Like it always was Duncan's. All those guys were accountable. to Tim Duncan.

And there's nobody really to be accountable to. And I mean in that locker room, you can say they're always going to swear by pop and, you know, be accountable to pop. Is there really not, though? Manu Genoobli and Tony Parker, guys that have been there for... Those guys are not dogmatic guys, though.

They're not what everybody in that locker room looks up to, right? It's typically like, you know, the leader, the elder statesman, the best guy. And so right now, who's the best guy on that team? It's Lamarcus Aldrich, right? Well, Marcus Alder just went through a, I mean, he wanted to get traded for God's sake. You know what I'm saying?

He did. He wanted to get traded. I mean, they've gone through some stuff that hasn't happened over the course. The last couple of years have been different for that franchise than the 20 before that. And the common thread is that Tim Duncan was there in that locker room. I just think there's a real power in that, you know, that there is a, there's somebody to be. accountable to, you know, I mean, I've just seen it so many times. If, okay, earlier you played Kauai's side where it's like, you know what, I just want to get

healthy. If it's that, I don't think it would make a difference having a guy like Duncan because it would literally just be, dude, like I'm really just trying to get back. I'm not right. That'd be a different thing. But if it's off court stuff, if it's about, you know, the shoe deal, it was reported that Kauai and his group declined a four-year, $20 million deal from Jordan brand because they felt like it didn't reflect his accomplishments. on the court, he wanted a bigger deal from Jordan Brand or Nike or whoever else when his deal's up in October. If it's stuff like that, if it's about, as I alluded to, if it's about the limelight, it's about wanting stardom, going to L.A., going to somewhere in California, going home.

If it's that, I don't know if Duncan would make a difference. Maybe he could. Maybe he could get him back on the court, be like, dude, you know, play it out, be part of this team. We could do something special. Maybe that would help. But also, there's nothing stopping Tim Duncan from talking about. Kauai now, right? There's nothing stopping that from happening. I suppose, but I mean, it's different. He's not there every day. He's not there every day.

Got to be in the locker room every day. Going on a plane ride. He's part of it. All that. All right, let's get to a couple of these that are going on tonight. And we'll just race through. We have three games tonight. And so people that are going to get to hear this podcast before, we'll get to hear our thoughts.

And the people that hear it after will get to make fun of us. As we talk about these going in. All right. This is the moment where you kind of put yourself out on the line because we're going to talk about these games and we'll see how they play out. So the Raptors are up one zip on the Wizards. They are the first game that is going off tonight. In game number one, you know, it was a good game there for a long time.

And then obviously the Raptors pulled away at the end. It's, you know, you go back and look. And obviously, that's one of those where you look at the line and the line that goes across the bottom line is going to like John Wall had X number of points, X number of cyst and did this and did this. And then you look at his six of 20, right? And that thing, that whole John Wall thing is just, it's really, he is like the whipping boy. It's been hanging out there for sure that he, that this team functioned so well when he was not in the lineup. And you look at it and you go, well, maybe Auto Porter should be shooting more than whatever it was seven times.

And maybe Brad Beale should get some more touches and whatever else. Thoughts on what you saw from Raptors' Wizards and chances the Wizards can make this a very competitive series. Well, John Wall needs to start making some layups. I mean, that's the first party. He missed a lot of easy ones inside, both in transition and in the half court over the course of the entire game, really. Starting in the first quarter, I believe he missed an easy layup. If he hits some of those, it's a completely different game. Washington lost by eight points, but Wall, I don't have that number in front of me right now,

but I believe he missed at least six layups around the rim. I mean, it was a really unusual performance because you could say that, oh, it's because he's still not at, you know, full strength. He doesn't have his full burst or full leaping ability. That could be true, maybe, maybe, but he also had no issues finishing around the rim since returning during the regular season. He just missed some easy ones. So it's like people talk about, you know, the hot shooting can change a game, right?

And at game one, teams get hot and they go cold, that can also be true for finishing around the room as well. I think Washington has a chance to still make this a series. I do too. I think the sheer talent level on that team, they certainly can. Toronto shot the lights out in that first game 16 to 30 from three. We'll see if that maintains in game two. I think it'll be competitive.

But I do think John Wall certainly needs to elevate his play to another level. Less careless turnovers needs to be better finishing around the room. He's the key to all of it. But there's a total possibility that he could be the best player on the floor. That still hangs out. there, right? And Beal. They have a chance because of the talent level where either one of those two guys could be the best player on the floor on a given night. And so you got a chance when it comes to that. And the other thing is, as we mentioned earlier, the Raptors are devastating at

home. So it's unsurprising that they would be able to hold down the Ford, even given their history of not being able to hold down the fort over the last several years in the game one. Game one was different, though. It was different for Toronto. They moved the ball really, really well over the course of the full game. Lowry and De Rosen struggled scoring in the first half, but they were at least

were passing. They were passing the ball and they were playmaking. And that continued over the course of the second half once those guys, they really heated up at the start of the third quarter.

DeRosen still shot only six of 17, didn't have a great game at all. But at least, look, the ball was moving for Toronto. They hit their threes. They played for the most part. Pretty good defense.

Toronto's different. I don't know how valuable the past four years really are just because the system is so different. If we see them falling into bad habits, then I think it's time to start getting worried, but we haven't seen that yet. All right, Buck Celtics, for this, let's set a timer with the Google Assistant. Hey, Google, set a timer for two minutes. All right, two minutes, and we are starting now. Buck Celtics, this turned into an epic the other night, certainly with all the shots at the end of the shot clock. Roseer and then the Bucks hitting two threes where it looked like the Celtics had them dead,

including the miraculous Middleton one. There were some wrinkles that were put in as the game went on. I know you chronicled about Janus moving to sooner, something that had not worked all that well throughout the season, but certainly appeared to be able to create him the requisite space in the game against the Celtics the other night. Typically with games like this, so like the Wizards, I would assume, will make adjustments. and I would be kind of surprised if the game didn't end up

very close in that one. The other one, though, the Bucks and the Celtics, I do kind of feel on one end, the Celtics and the way they won that game, that is the absolute best case scenario sometimes in a competitive series because they didn't beat the shit out of them

and so you don't go to the film session where the Bucks are going to make all kinds of adjustments. Brad Stevens, he gets away with a win and will feel like they need to change things that they did in game one. You know, we just saw like last night where you have the Sixers and they they cream the heat in game one. And so obviously the heat are going to make the more dramatic adjustments.

Whereas when you have really close games, both teams are going to go to their film session and change a bunch of stuff that they have been doing. It is not just the team that lost because, as we know, you're one shot away from losing if you're the Celtics. So I kind of feel like the Celtics may beat them more handily tonight, but I know that's not the common thought. What do you think? And there's also the variable with Joe Prunty,

it's his first time as a head coach in the playoffs. We'll see what type of adjustments his team, his coaching staff makes. Hey, Google, stop timer. I personally think they need to go to Yonis at the five earlier. You can't do it the whole game because L. Horford will really wear him down, get him into foul trouble. if you do put Yanos at the five. However, Milwaukee's offense was really fantastic for around four minutes or so

as soon as they went to it. Wide open lanes for Eric Bledsoe to drive and kick, easy lanes for Enta Kumpo to drive against Al Horford. The floor is wide open when it's usually just really crunched together with poor spacing, even when they have some good shooters on the floor, when they have a big on the floor, whether there's Henson or Zeller, or somebody else, Janice at the 5 opens things up for that offense.

And to refer back to something you said earlier with Philadelphia, if you're scoring points and the opposing team is taking the ball out from under the room instead of getting transition offense, that'll help your defense as well. So while it did have some issues during the regular season and it did kind of fizzle out in the overtime against Boston, I think if you go to Janus at the 5, even for maybe just three minutes at a time here and there,

maybe you get it for 12 minutes over the course of a game, I think that can really help give you a boost. I hope they go to that early in the game. I would be almost disappointed if we didn't see it in the first quarter from Milwaukee. Because I feel like it's something you have to do to open up the floor for Janus and Eric Bloodsoe to drive. Interesting. Like I said, with the adjustment thing, I mean, it's just the way you view these series.

So if we move to the last one, it's Pelicans Trailblazers. I would imagine the Pelicans make the. requisite adjustments. It's just very hard psychologically, if you're the Pelicans, to get up in the same manner that you did for game one. There is a sense of accomplishment, right? You're, you're kind of house money in a game two. You shouldn't necessarily feel that way, but you are kind of house money. You've stolen home court advantage. You have this sense of accomplishment. We got what we needed. You know, we got one game in Portland, whereas Portland knows, I mean, this is This is life or death tonight, right?

So that would be, of all the outcomes tonight, if the Wizards beat the Raptors, I wouldn't be that shocked. The Buck Celtics either way. I think the Celtics will win it. But I think I'd be a little shocked if Portland didn't beat the Pelicans tonight, just given that situation. Because if they lose tonight, it's over. I do not think they could come back against the Pelicans. I don't. And so it's life or death for them, as far as I'm concerned.

And I think they'll treat it that way. I picked New Orleans to win the series, maybe in six or seven games. I didn't pick games exactly, but I would say six or seven. I still think New Orleans wins it. However, after game one, the Pelicans really ran out of steam at the end of that game. They just don't have enough weapons offensively when Portland really ramped up their defense. New Orleans needs to win this game with defense. Drew Holliday was outstanding in game one.

Had that amazing final minute where he picked off the, he deflected the ball from C.J. McCollum, forcing a turnover. He had the block, had steel, the deflection. He was just remarkable in that final minute. And it was a perfect ending for what was a really good game for him overall. And Anthony Davis, boy, I mean,

he was unbelievable. He had that possession against Damien Lillard on a switch where he somehow just kind of angled his arm over Lillard's entire body and blocked the shot after defending him for like 15 seconds of the shock. Davis, Drew holiday and that entire New Orleans defense is what needs to win the series for for the pelicans.

But on the other hand, Chris, to your point, the Blazers, they did not shoot the ball well in game one. If they heat up, it's a different game. They probably win that game if they hit a couple more open three-pointers, which they had. You know, we were talking about earlier in that Philadelphia series where you look up and down it, if you're expulsory, you go, all right, I'm throwing Justice Winslow at Ben Simmons. and I'm throwing James Johnson at Ben Simmons and maybe if I can get a little a couple minutes of Richardson on Simmons. I mean, if you're,

and I know this is the case with virtually everybody, but if you're Terry Stats, you look up and down and go, I ain't got nothing to throw at Davis. Yeah, nobody does, really. Who does? Well, obviously the best way to deal with Davis is to get very physical with him.

That's your only chance, right? Is to get very physical. Follow him out. That's how you stop Anthony Davis. Well, just not unlike what you have to kind of do with Steph and Clay. Put your hands on them, try to knock them off their spots. You know what I mean? Get physical with those guys.

Listen, he is otherworldly. Nobody's got some kind of great way to deal with him. But that is, that's your best shot, right, is to rough him up. Like Todd Gibson style, you know what I'm saying? And obviously, listen, the guy can put numbers on anybody. Yeah. I'm just saying, I would say, get it. physical with them is your best mode of operation, given that there is no great mode of operation.

I'm freely admit that. It's like, oh, any great player, shutting them down is off the table. It's just a matter of can you make it more difficult? Can you get them to go 12 of 26 instead of 20 or for 26 or whatever they end up in these games? The tough part is for Portland, you know, you mentioned they don't have a guy to throw at Davis. They also don't have Mo Harclis. So without Harkalus, they can't play small with Aminu. They can't go with Amino at the 5.

They can't experiment with that. Nerkich is a good player. But, boy, it's an incredibly difficult matchup for him against Anthony Davis. And I wonder if maybe Ed Davis is more equipped. He's better laterally. He's quicker. He's more agile. If he's the player that should be starting even over Nerkich to match up against Anthony Davis.

I wonder if that's an adjustment in Portland could think about making. It's unfortunate for them they don't have Harkless, though. I do believe Ed Davis is the better matchup of those two. I agree with you on that. How could you be Moharkless? You remember that Kanye West song? Of course. It's an outstanding album, Chris.

It really is. Last thing is, though we are not going to get to talk about the cavaliers, we do need to at least mention them just as we get out of here. I saw you saying, and many have reiterated that this is LeBron's worst team in over a decade. I'll just say this quickly. If you would have told me that on the road in a game one, Indiana scored 98 points against Cleveland, there's almost no amount of money I would have put on Cleveland. Them scoring eight, you are never winning a playoff game scoring 80, unless we all get in a time machine and go back to, you know, the mid-90s. The fact that they scored 80 points in that game is beyond outrageous to me. do you think that tomorrow night, when we see them back in action, that we just get bonafide supernova LeBron in that game.

And it's like a 40-point triple double type night. Or do you think that, hey, they were only on national TV once. People have been sleeping on them. And this Pacers team's super tough. And they're not about the bullshit. And it ain't going to be just LeBron can turn it on and throw the. team on his back because in years past, throwing his team on his back also included being able to kick it out to better players.

I don't know. What do you think? I mean, is it possible we're going to get both? This Indiana team is really tough. They're not going to, they have no fear of LeBron James. They're four and one against Cleveland this season. They're three in one during the regular season, one and O. Obviously, they won game one.

But that doesn't prevent LeBron from being just this superhuman in game two. We saw elements of that in game one. He had a really strong overall game. But there's another level. There's always another level to LeBron James. And I think if you're LeBron, you're looking at your roster, you're seeing Jeff Green, George Hill can't stay healthy, Rodney Hood. You're seeing Jordan Clarkson. You're seeing J.R. Smith, a shell of his former self.

You're like, damn, I really, really do need to turn it up already. And it's only April. It's only April. This is a tough series for Cleveland. My gut is that he comes out, goes absolutely supernova, and they just beat the shit out of the Pacers in the second game. That's my gut. They're not going to beat the shit out of them.

I think Cleveland wins game too. There's no way they lose game too. No way they lose game too. But Indiana is a really, really tough out. This series could easily go seven. Look, man, Victor Oladipo is for real, okay? I mean, for people who don't watch the Pacers all season. I know, but the Pacers only played one national TV game, like he said.

There's a lot of people out there who are big NBA fans that may not have had the opportunity to see them unless they face their own favorite team. Ola Depot was for real. Like what you saw in game one, that is the new victor Ola Depot. Dude can score from all different, all levels, he can playmake. He's an elite defender. Ola Dippo is a hell of a player. Well, you know, I live in a small market and they have gotten. I even heard my buddy David Thorpe when he was talking to Zach Lowe on their podcast.

I was listening to it and he was comparing it to the. the old grislies, which is you get to the playoffs, no one has ever seen them. And then it's like, oh, wow. Like, these guys are not to be trifled with, right? I do believe there is something to that. Could you fathom if they went up too low on them? That would be incredible. You want to talk about Hot Take City.

And LeBron, Lamar may already have all those bags packed, right? They go down 02 to the Pacers. talk about backs against the wall for sure. It's like LeBron said, though, after game one, he's like down 0-01, not worried. He was down 3-1 in the friggin finals, dude. He's come back from more. Even down 02, you still can't count out King James. And by the way, let me just throw this in here because I have not been, I feel like sometimes

I get pegged with not being over the top in my effusive and praise with the LeBron stuff. I am well aware of the transcendent player that he is. And while everybody's talking about his worst team in forever, let's not forget the year that his whole damn team got hurt. And he was in the finals against Golden State. Yeah, yeah. That team was ridiculous. He rolled out there.

He was getting 40-point triple doubles against the Warriors. And he had like Dala Vadova and Tristan and like he had nothing running with him. Nothing. So this isn't that bad. At least he's got some guys he could kick out to. And, you know, I got an honor. Whereas that time around, by the time he got to the finals that year, he just, he looked around in that locker room and it's like, oh, boy. But I don't have 50, 20, and 20, we're probably getting beat tonight.

That year was something else. So he made the finals round. But yeah, Chris, you have to say only positive things about LeBron James and Sam Hinkie. Those are the two people, you have to just shower with love and adoration. LeBron and Sam Hinkie. On NBA Twitter at least. I understand. Kevin, it's always a blast, and God, these playoffs have been so good.

I'll catch up with you next Tuesday. Looking forward. We're going to have some fun stuff to react to. Have it going, Chris. Thanks for listening to another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing. Go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.