The Ringer NBA Show - The Impact of Recent Injuries to NBA Stars, Fred VanVleet’s Postgame Ref Comments, and the Draymond Green–Dillon Brooks Beef | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to discuss the wave of injuries to NBA stars and how it’s impacting the playoff runs for certain teams (1:50). Along the way, Logan goes through potential playoff matchups around the league and asks Raja to give his series predictions (17:34). Next, the guys discuss Fred VanVleet’s postgame comments on officiating (26:15). Later, they talk about the fiery back-and-forth between Draymond Green and Dillon Brooks ahead of tonight’s Warriors-Grizzlies matchup (43:14). Finally, the guys close out with their Real Ones of the Week (58:12). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's official. One Shining Podcast is back, and I am your host, Tate Frazier. And as March Badness begins, we're covering everything from Selection Sunday all the way to the championship and beyond. We're going to have great guests that are coming through on the show. And look, if you're a friend of the program and you're already subscribed, you don't have to do anything. OSP is back. It's going to be right back in your feed. And if you're not a friend of the program, and this is your first time on the rodeo, then let me tell you this. You need to go to Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. and smash subscribe today because the OSP show is back.

What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there. They're calling me Logan two times, Roger, because you guys need to ask twice if I am recording. I'm just going to eat that. You know, I'm just going to take that on the chin. You're right. You're right.

You guys got me. Whatever. We're here. Hey, it is what it is, bro. I mean, you know, great movie, Brockstale. What was his name? Something two times, two times.

That's it. You're good. Don't no shame in that. It's fine. I'm just, it's the inner competitiveness in me is just saying, because like clearly I fucked up on the sound way more times than you during our 10 years row once. It just, it is what it is.

And I'm just kind of, I'm kind of upset with that point of it. Like you're beating me probably like, you know, 30 to two or some shit right there. I just want to win. You know what I mean? No, but you get a win. You have a consistent win because I'm consistently either fractionally late or really late. And so you beat me every day. Yeah, that's fair.

That's fair. That's fair. We'll go with that. Okay. I'll go with that. You know what's beating the hell out of NBA teams, Roger? Injuries. Dog.

I hope that people appreciate how far we've come, especially. I mean, I don't do the transitions, but they're your purview, but, man, I hope they appreciate how far we've got. Yo, when I was in Salt Lake, some of the homies who also asked, where's Roger, some of the hummies was like, one dude came to me. He was like, yo, your transitions have gotten really, really good. And I was like, thanks. Because I was trying to, like, right after the show, I'll bounce, Rob. I'm like, I'm not trying to, I'm not, I didn't stay that long. But when I saw somebody, he stopped me, he was like, dude, your transistors have gotten

so much better. And I was like, thanks, man. Appreciate it, dude. I try it. It's a great brain exercise. But the injuries are kicking the NBA's ass, man. I woke up this morning. I'm going to be honest with you, I didn't watch much basketball last night.

Had some personal stuff that I was, that I was hanging, doing and having fun with. and I wake up this morning and I see Kevin Durant is out at least four to six weeks bro and I and then I look again wait wait wait wait

what's up they put four to six on Kevin Durant already yeah that's the rumor right now yeah at this point it's a it's a gray two ankle spring so four to six so he's out for the rest of the season you know that that's what they're saying he's probably out for the rest of the season

and he was out because he had a layup line he sprained his ankle. Like, that happens. Luca Donchis gets hurt. Brandon Ingram gets hurt as well. It's just, it was not a good night for injuries last night. And we'll start with Kevin.

I talked about this as soon as, like, the trade went down. And it was one of my reservations. You know, I was all in on the Phoenix Suns. And my reservation was, are they going to be able to stay healthy? And I was thinking, you know, are they going to be? be healthy enough in May and June because that's when it's a haul, right? Play a whole season and then, you know, your body just kind of breaks down at the end. It's like it's a war of attrition. But I didn't think it was going to be a freak injury and a layup line. And now the Phoenix Sun season is all the way upside down. I don't even know what they do from here, man?

Like, I guess they weighed on it. They wait on Kevin. They, what do they do from here, Roger? What's, what is, what is, what do you think when you see all what I, what I just gave? First of all. would be, I think a lot of us were worried about Chris Paul and Kevin Durant and their recent history in terms of being injured. And if one of them were to sustain an injury, what that would mean for Phoenix, having to give up as much depth as they did on the perimeter to acquire Kevin Durant. Now, the crazy part about this is this isn't one of a rolled ankle like that is a freak accident. That is not something that someone could say because of his age and his current, I mean, his recent injury history, his body is breaking down and you can forecast,

no one can forecast that. That was as fluky as it comes. Terrible timing and ultimately, you know, you hit me with the four to six. When I saw the role of the ankle, you know, I'm not used to the rolls of ankles being four to six, but it was a really good role of the ankle. So as far as Phoenix and where they go from here, big picture, in terms of their chemistry and stuff, it's not the end of the world because I do think Kevin Durand, I've said this before, is the type of player that fits in pretty well, relatively quickly. Perfect world. You have him running down the stretch and you guys get everything ironed out and all the kinks are worked out.

And this is a well-oiled machine going into playoffs. But I do think you can reintegrate him into some sort of lineup around playoff time and still be good. I don't think you're going to be at your best. And you would need to be at your best to win a championship. So if he's out until the playoffs, I don't have them as a championship. contender anymore personally. The problem in the immediate is you know you're sitting there in fourth

right now but you're only three wins clear, two wins clear of a playing situation because of the Western Conference and how compact it is, you know, in the middle of that. And so without, you know, your Cam Johnson's and your McHale Bridges and those pieces that were vital

to the team prior to getting and Kevin Durant, like, you're in an absolute dog fight now. And, you know, Devin Booker's been playing great. He was unguardedable last night. Like, that kid had 44 in like 30-some minutes, bro. He was, I was watching and trying to figure out how I will guard him, and I did not have an answer. He was ridiculously in a bag.

But, like, what is that? Like, if he's got to do that to carry you guys home through the stretch, and then Kevin Durant comes back, now you've set him up for a potential blowout. Like, there are only so many miles on a car. dude, there are only so many miles on a body. Yeah. You know, and that big, I know we weren't here for load management, but like that, that's the conversation.

The injury is what derails most, you know, a lot of teams trying to win a championship when they think they're in that, that conversation, like an injury or whether you navigate it cleanly or whether it jumps up and it bites you in the butt. And that's what I worry about with the son's fighting to avoid playing, having to ride Devin Booker in a way that subjects him to, overuse. So then when you get your

whole roster back, like what does Devin Booker look like now? Maybe he's not even injured, but is he just out of gas? Do you know what I mean? And so that's what worries me about this situation. And it's unfortunate. It sucks for the sons. Sucks for KD. I feel bad, but that's a freak

accident. You couldn't predict that. You talked about chemistry a little bit during that. My first thought of, when I thought about it was, damn, this team is not going to be able to go through adversity until they go through adversity together, right? Like, they played a couple of games. And you know down the stretch, especially when there's a big trade or there is a big move down the stretch when you integrate a piece, it is, it's, it's tough to, you know, it's tough to find a groove midseason,

whether you're a coach or anything like that. So one thing that I really was looking forward to, with the sons during the stretch was playing these tough teams, playing like the Sacramento Kings on the road. Well, they're playing them at home, but like playing them on the road down the stretch, playing the warriors down the stretch, building that camaraderie, like both as people,

but also on the floor. You get to figure out certain things about a team. It's really hard to do that in this like six-week stretch that we have post-all-Star. It's really going to be tough from that standpoint in my mind. How, if you can, how do you even overcome that, Ra, where you're like, okay, Kevin comes in, say they do, you know, make the plan, or they make the plan and they win and they get into the postseason. They integrate this guy, Katie, back in the middle of the postseason where we know the game is totally different.

How do you make, how do you even build trust on the fly during that time? I don't have an answer for that. I don't recall playing on a team that had a situation like this. And so, you know, I guess you have to trust that Kevin Durant is just such a high level talent, both in skill and, you know, basketball IQ and understanding of what's going on that you really can just drop him in and figure it out on the fly because that's what they're going to have to do. You can't, you know, there are certain things you can't simulate. I mean, you know what I mean? Like you just, you can practice. you can prep, you can go over it on a board, you can walk through, you know, and you can try to simulate.

You can do everything you want, but you can't prep for that, for that real moment. And so, you know, that for all of those reasons, it's just a difficult pill to swallow if you're the sons. I do think they will still be okay. But for the, for the very reason you just stated, I can't now, while I had them like as a sneaky, like, chance to win it. I don't know that you do that in the playoffs. Now, if this winds up being a two to four week injury and you get him back for a stretch of games going into the playoffs, you know what I mean?

And I would have to see what it looks like at that point, but you were already behind the eight ball in terms of the amount of time someone would think you'd need to get in full form to be able to make a run at a championship in a league that is super highly competitive, right? But you had pieces, but you're on the very fringe of the amount of time that people would think necessary for you to be able to get that done. Now, you know, I don't know. Yeah.

No, I'm looking at the standings right now. And it's, first of all, the Sacramento Kings are number two in the Western Conference. Shout out to SAC. But I'm looking down the line, you have all these teams in the Western Conference, other than the Nuggets, have significant questions, right? Kings when it comes to the youth, right? They just don't. They'd never been there before. Grizzlies, yeah.

The sons, the sons, we're just talking about. Then you have the warriors who honestly, man, I saw them to play Oklahoma City. They are, it's very dysfunctional in Golden State right now, as you can imagine. Then you have the Clippers who I also saw in the last week. They don't look great. They don't look like a championship contender. Down the line, you don't, you don't see. a team that is really coming out of the West, other than the Nuggets, does this, is this injury

to Kevin just kind of, we're just talking very, you know, we're talking, we're predicting right this point. If I'm asking you today, and on March 9th, 2023, do the Nuggets just have the path to the Western Conference championship right now? Is that, is it there's to lose at this point? Yeah, I think, I think it is. And now, everything you just mentioned again is what, I mean, Phoenix has all that going for them, right? Like I've said they wouldn't be my sneaky favorite now because of this injury and what it does to the timeline. But the reality is when you look across the landscape of the West,

I mean, for all the reasons you just talked about, it's pretty wide open. So that would be the silver lining for the suns, right? Like there are a lot of teams that have their own flaws and have things that you could point to as reasons why they couldn't get it done. So Denver has done it from start to finish, basically. Nicola Yolkich has continued to take steps even after an MVP and after a second MVP, he's continued to get better.

They're playing really, really good basketball and they have kind of separated themselves. So I do believe them to be the clear favorite in the Western Conference, despite teams that might have names that in the past have produced in a bigger, more significant way than Nicola and Murray and company have, if that makes sense. I'm still taking them because they've done that over the course of time, and a lot of these teams have flaws. But yeah, yeah, so I take Denver. It's so interesting.

I was talking to somebody last week, and I was just, I was talking about a team in the Western Conference, and I was just saying, man, I don't think this team has a shot until I look at the standings, you know? And I feel like that you can go that down the line with this Western conference where you see the eye test. I've seen some bad basketball out of the Western conference this season. You know, there's just been some just like some weird type games. But then I look at the standings for one of these teams.

And I'm like, oh, there are there how many games out of first place? Oh, I think they could beat this team in a playoff series when fully healthy. What does that do for that confidence due for a? clippers or a, you know, the Mavericks that eight who have been there before or, you know, the warriors who are, like I said, dysfunctional, but have been there before. What does that do for a team like those teams going into a Western conference playoff where everything is on the table? You know, because I feel like there's another thing.

I know the Kings are like the darlings of the league at this point. But like, I don't, if you just catch some of the playoffs series, you're looking at them as food. Like, oh, okay, they've never been here before. We're going to try to go get them. We're going to try to go get this win real quick if you're the right team. Yeah, well, I think what it does for everybody in the playoff race in that Western Conference is it gives you a level of confidence and belief that sometimes doesn't exist, right? And I think that's going to sound pretty crazy, right?

But there are times when you get in as an AC, right? You get in as an eight and you're playing a one. Let's use the last year I was in Utah. when I'm sitting there begging to go in games because we can't make a three-point shot and they won't put me in the game out of spite. But let's just use that for example. Right. Just fucking spiteful.

All right, here we go. So I'm sitting there. We know we barely got in. You ain't beaten the spurs. Like we're trying to make it competitive. We can say outwardly to the media. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We both, there ain't nobody. You ain't beating them. Hey, real quick. What's it like when you go on as a C? and you know you don't have a shot. Like, what is that like? It is a weird, it is a weird feeling. It's a weird feeling.

I didn't play on many teams like that. You know, I was usually on a team that felt like we were firmly in the hunt when we made the playoffs. So that was really strange for me. You know, it was, it was almost like forecasting. You were trying to forecast like, is it going to be a sweep or is it going to be five? Because we might win one. We ain't pushing them to six. So when can I get these tickets?

Like what day can I safely book passage back to the East Coast because we are not going past this date? You know what I mean? But I could leave two days earlier if I left this date. So you start to get greedy about your vacation. You over here like, yo, should I, like, we might get swept, but I don't want to actively say that we're going to get swept. So I'm going to go into like game six and be like,

I'm going to just book these tickets for when game six is. Is that what it is? A lot of stuff's got to line up, man. I got to get the car movers to show up before I get on a plane to leave. Like there's a lot of stuff that's got to be, you know, put into place before I could get home. So no situations like that exist in the Western Conference to answer your question. So everyone there has a level of confidence that, hey, man, we could beat them. I mean, if I'm sitting there at eight, I didn't think I could beat Denver.

I just told you Denver's my favorite. But if I was looking at them, I'd be like, yeah, shit. Yeah, we could beat Denver. And if I didn't feel like that about Denver, I definitely feel like that from Sacramento down. 1,000%. You understand what I mean? So from seven to like playing, let's say whoever seven,

you know, like everyone feels like they have a shot. So, and I mean a legitimate shot, not the one that you go out and tell the reporters because you all want to be like seen as not being competent. But sometimes you know, bro. And in this Western Conference right now, I don't think anybody has any fear. Like everyone thinks they have an equal opportunity to come out of that bad boy, which should, at least in theory, produce some really good playoff games.

This is a nasty, this is a nasty Western Conference. Like, schedule-wise, record-wise for each team. I'm looking at a lot of 34-3-3-2s, a lot of 35s that are in here. So with that being said, I want to be a lot of. play a nice little game that I just made up in my mind called flights booked presented by presented by real ones somehow presented by fandul let's do it all right so I'm going to ask you these are the the playoff matchups as we see them right now I'm not talking about playing I'm not talking about how it shakes out right now and Roger you're going to tell me if the team is going

to have their flight booked early yeah by the by there by which game and that's how you're going to do it. I'm going to give you the, they're going to go to the bottom seeds and we're going to go, we're going to work our way up. Okay. First round matchup right now. Nuggets Mavericks. Who, who's packing their bags? When are they flying? When are they getting the ticket to Cabo? Nobody can pack a bag in that one. That could be seven. Okay. No, that's not a pack your bag series there. That's a hold on tight.

Okay. All right. So we're going to go right now. So this is the two seven. They are like a lot of great. They're all like that. Because King's Timberwolves is going to be fire. They're all like that. Damn, dog. Listen, okay, so let's shorten your game. We can't play the game?

Can we play the game? I like the idea. I think the Eastern Conference is probably better to play the game, right? So you're looking at. Yeah. Milwaukee. I got you. Let's do it.

Milwaukee, okay. Milwaukee Atlanta, for sure. Pack your bags. What are the, when are they packing their bags? When are you book it? You're on Atlanta Hawks right now. When are you packing your bags to fly out? I put us in for five games.

So I would pack, I would, I would, I would forecast five games. What's the last possible date for the fifth game? And I'm packed and I'm leaving the day after. No, sorry. Oh yeah. Two days after because I got to have my exit interview. Two days after. Okay, cool.

So like around when game seven is supposed to be, that's when you're packing out. Also, which is great because you're in Atlanta, which has a lot of direct flights to a lot of different places. Like if you would have gotten, if you would have like got eliminated in Milwaukee, that would suck, right? Like there's no, there's not direct passes. Okay, so boom. All right. Let's go Celtics heat. Where, when are the, are the heat packing their bags?

Like, no, not packing their bags off GP. He doesn't pack bags. Hey, hey, Pat Riley is not having no pack. No pack bags. I don't care if we get sweat. We ain't packing no bags. While you're bullshit and they were a Jimmy, a Jimmy Butler three away last year from, from, from, from, from, from, from beating them.

Yep. So like you're not you're not packing your, but I know it's a different team this year. Miami's not nearly shooting the ball as well as they did. And like, and Boston has taken to continue to take another step. So, but I couldn't because of the heat's DNA pack a bag there.

And because of the series last year. Some of the big homies on a block in this series. They're the big homies now. Yeah. All right. Um, this is, okay,

so this one is hilarious because there are definitely bagpackers on both teams in this. in this series. Yeah. Talking Sixers Nets. Right. Brooklyn Pack them up. Brooklyn Pack them up.

James Hardin is not packing bags in this round. Not in this round. He's a notorious. He's in the notorious bag packer. He's not. He's not. But he waits till the second third round to do that. Yeah, he's not going to pack.

All right. So are you, all right, we're the Brooklyn Nets right now. Where are you, what's airport are you flying out of? Where are, how many bags are you doing?

Are you get, are you got precheck popping? where are you at? Are you at a LaGuardia, JFK or Newark? Where are you going? Where are we at? What's going on? It's a good question. A lot of flights going out of a lot of New York airports, buddy.

I don't know the whole, I don't know the whole like geographic region. I think LaGuardia is over there by flushing. So I probably say we're leaving out of JFK. We're going, or Newark, depending on, on. You know, LaGlaherty is popping now. LaGlauglady got a big-ass renovation.

Like, it's the, it's the beautiful. Oh, you've been there. Okay. Yeah, bro. Yeah, I like the New York area airports. But I would say now, yeah, I would say safely game five. Game five, let's be safe. I think it's a sweet, but we'll say game five.

Hey, hey, Cam Thomas said, hey, you better relax. I'm getting a game by myself. I'm getting 46. I am not mad at you, Cam Thomas. You ain't going to get another one. You flying? Where are you flying to? You flying because, you know, you can get a lot of places out of New York.

Where are you going? You know, I like Always listen, bro, I was a big believer in starting my vacations off in a sandy place with clear blue water For just a nice, a week, a week. You know, when I had kids, you had to be a little bit 10 days to a week.

Get like, let's get this thing back to neutral. Let's just let the spirit rejuvenate. Let's get our chakras align. Yeah, dog. Let's get our she in place. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. That's right.

All right. All right. Last one. I'm glad you pivoted to the Eastern Congress. This is a fun. This is a fun exercise. A lot of great airports out here. Cavs Nix. Tom Tivodeau's not letting you pack your bags, bro. No, Tom, no, this is a knockdown, dragout series, at least I think it should be. Yeah, I told you I'd take Cleveland the other day. I'm going to stay consistent, but I do think it's a six or seven. And when you're talking about being in a six, when you believe, you can be in six, you believe you can win it. You know what I mean? Like you're, you're, so you're, I think this one is going to go over the wire. Whoever loses this series is going to need a vacation. No, they're going to need Sandy beaches. They're going to need the extra massage package at the hotel. They're going to need the spot treatment. They're going to just they're going to need

whoever loses is going to get their ass kicked in seven games and they're going to be, they're going to be done. They might need two days of cryo chamber work prior to the vacation just to get off rip. It's going to be a, it's going to be a, it's going to be a, Bloodbath. It's going to be great. Let's take a quick break. And we're going to talk about Raj's favorite subject officiating. Get off the bench and bet the NBA with Fanduel, America's number one sportsbook. Because right now, Fandual is giving new customers 10 times your first bet in bonus bets.

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And we are back, Raja. We're here to take a trip down to up to the six, get some snow, you know, one of my favorite city in the NBA. We're going to go kick it over there in Toronto where Fred Van Vleet is Fred Van Pissed because of the officiating.

Last night, he lashed out on official Ben Taylor by name. He goes, this is after Van Vleet, who has been called for a team high eight texts this season, five of which have come with Ben Taylor officiates. including an ejection in a November 30th matchup against the Pelicans.

This is a quote, Raja, and I feel like you're going to feel this. He says, you can look it up. Most of my texts this year have been with Ben Taylor officiating. At a certain point, you've got to feel it's personal. And then he goes on. He says, I'll take a fine. I really don't care. I thought Ben Taylor was fucking terrible tonight.

On most nights, out of the three, there's one or two that fuck the game up. Most of the reps are trying hard. Is this a Raja Belko? I like a lot of the reps. They're pretty fair. They communicate well. And then you got other ones that just want to be whatever they want to be. And they just fucks the game up.

Nobody is coming to see that shit. They come to see the players. Raja, the floor is yours. What is your response to what is going on right now? Are you on Fran Van Bleet's side? Are you on Ben Taylor's side? I don't know if you would be. But how do you feel?

about just calling out a ref and the frustrations that a player feels when things like this occur. I mean, I would leave it up to people to guess as to where I stand on this one. This one's pretty easy for me. Now, I will say, after saying that, yes, I'm clearly on Fred Van Bleet's side, I will say I've never seen anyone get up to the mic and eviscerate a referee a referee personally like that. Are you jealous? Are you jealous? Because lightweight. Lightweight. But Fred Van Vleet makes exponentially more money than I did.

So I would not have been jealous and will not be jealous when that fine comes down. Because I don't think they can hit him with the standard fine that they give to people when they say the ref suck tonight. That's going to be really interesting to me to see what they do with that. Whether they levy some sort of unprecedented fine for the unprecedented attack or if it's just the standard boilerplate. hey, you say something stupid about refs and the integrity of the game and we got to pop you with a five. That's going to be fascinating to me.

Having said all of that, refs are human, NBA players are human. Fred Vimbley spoke about his eight texts this year and how the disproportionate amount of them were handed out by what's his name? Ben Taylor. Dang, you've been out to league a while. You forgot all the names and stuff.

Dan, you only know the OGs. I'm worried about no Ben Taylor. But the point being, he's given him three of his eight and the crews that Ben Taylor have been on are responsible for four of the eight. So half of the text, Fred VanVille feels like, this is personal. What we don't get and what we're not privy to is the conversations that Fred Van Fleet and Ben Taylor are having, right? So like, I don't know what has been said by one party or the other. you don't know. I've seen some of the interaction with Fred Van Vleet and Fred Van Vleet and at least some of the clips looks like and last night it didn't look like he said anything like egregious or wasn't super demonstrative and didn't look like he was trying to show anyone up. But you really don't know what transpired between the two of them unless you just watch every interaction between them. There seems to me from the outside looking in with the evidence at hand that Ben Taylor is quick to give Fred Van Vleet text or at least quicker to give Fred Van Vleet text. Or at least quicker to give Fred Van Vleet text.

texts than any other ref in the game, whether that's because Fred Van Vleet, you know, feels some sort of way in as a little bit more aggressive and demonstrative towards him or not. I don't know. I haven't seen all their interactions. But clearly, he feels like it's his responsibility to tech Fred Van Vleet. Here's my thing with officials all the time. My livelihood to some degree is in your hands. It is.

And I know people are going to be like, oh, that's bullshit, like whatever. No, but it is. Like, if I make my living on offense and you refuse to give me any kind of calls when I'm going to the basket or anything like that, I can't produce to the degree that I should offensively, that is jeopardizing my career. If I'm a defender, high level, first team type of defender, and you will not let me go out there and really play defense because you're going to give me phantom calls and I'm not allowed to have any physicality. And therefore, I'm sitting on the bench picking up three foul in the first quarter. Every time you ref a fucking game, you are playing with my livelihood. the same can't be said about players to refs. We don't have that type of power.

We just go out and we play the game. Like there's nothing that I do that's going to really affect your livelihood in any way, shape, or form. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, I have no jurisdiction over you. I can't like, call a, no, reverse that. There are texts on you. Like, now you got too. Like, we can't do that.

So like, I always am going to lean towards. player and think that the responsibility in some of those situations is on the ref to not be quick with that. Like, let it marinate. I always felt like if my sister was a high level ref, you know, and she would always tell me if you can walk away, you should walk away. Like, if it is something that you can avoid by just moving or walking in the other direction, do that.

And I feel like that's sage advice. Like if he's running up in your face and you can't avoid it, don't avoid it. Bang, tech, get that, get out of here. But if that man is saying something walking through the middle of the lane while you are walking away to the scores table and he's not screaming it and shouting it and throwing his fingers at you or something like that, like what are we doing? Like, I'm not even talking about the financial ramifications because I find them like in terms of, you know, what you pay for tech and the fines and stuff like that.

Like, you know, those dudes make a lot of money. I don't think they're tripping over $1,000 here or there. Like, when you start taking game checks because of it, though, that's a real thing. But I'm, you know, I'm talking about purely ability to do job in a way that gets me paid. And it is, it, it, I'm real talk. If I can't do my job, because the refs have this narrative about me and I'm not able to do my job, it affects my ability in the open marketplace to sign with, for what like my talents might be worth because, you know, I pick up too many fouls early because

refs have a problem. Now, some of these things, you know, are earned, but sometimes it can be really, really personal in a way that that isn't even because you affect my livelihood and I can't affect yours. And I'm sorry that was a long-winded rant, but that's what it boils down to. Like, it's not an even playing field. How in the F, all right? How in the F, can I be the one with all the talent doing all the scoring, putting on the show, right? And you be the one, right, that is over there dictating whether or not, like, that's ridiculous. It's fucking absurd. And I always had a problem with this shit. I'm going to keep it a buck. I know a lot of these refs. I'm going to straight up. My sister was a ref. My sister was drafted into the WMBA. She was a hell of a women's

college player. You know, she had circumstances. At the super co-sign earlier this, earlier this year. Word. She had personal circumstances that didn't allow her to continue her WMBA journey. But because of that, she was no longer playing basketball. So what was the next best thing for my sister to either coach it or ref it? So in a lot of instances, you got a dude that to some degree couldn't play it or for

whatever reason didn't matriculate to the level where he could continue to play. play it so you find another way to stay in it. I don't begrudge anybody that. I don't judge it. None of that. Hey, fuck that. Do it. But when you come out here and you got this chip on your shoulder that's obvious from the rip,

everybody knows, Logan. This ain't no coded language. Everybody in the NBA knows the little motherfuckers that, like, as soon as you say something to a big chest comes out and they're ready to like, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow me down, bro. Like, this is, it don't got to be like that, but they're already on that shit. Those are what I got a problem with them. Sorry, I do.

I think this is years in the making, honestly. I think this has been years in the making because I just want to say, guys, just as a, just peel behind the curtain a little bit on the podcast journey that me and Ra have had. That was a little preview, ladies and gentlemen, of the pre-pod meetings. We tame it down for the officials on normal occasions. And Roger just brought that out. I am thinking right now, and I am just, I guess the question that I have in this instance,

and you brought up a great point, which is basically, yo, man, don't fuck up my livelihood if you don't have to. Now, if I go at you and I'm all in your face,

you deserve a tech and an injection. Like, that's a fact. If you come at me and you, and you out of pocket and disrespectful, you deserve a tech. How measured do, in a perfect world, should reps be in these instances, right?

Like where, because there's a lot of ones, you know, you know, there's been, Fred Vann, there's been a lot of, in the past couple of years, just,

I don't, I don't really, I just have a lot of anecdotal evidence. There seems that there have been a lot more complaints about the reps in the last few seasons than I've ever seen, right? Just in general. And I don't know if it's the changing the guard,

new reps coming in and just having to figure their way through this league and stuff like that. But there have been a lot of, just there's been a lot of quick texts. There have been a lot of those things. but how do you because at the end of the day refs have to control the game

because we also see the other side of it when refs don't control the game and it gets all out of pocket. Yeah. What is the, how measure do they have to be to not always go to text to control a game?

I guess this is my question. How do they find that balance and what is the perfect balance in a perfect world? Well first, let me start by saying this was a little, this was a little buildup

and it was kind of, it all came to a head with the Fred Van Fleet because I was watching the other night and someone else got ejected for, for was it Scotty Barnes maybe? I think that's what comes to mind.

It was Scotty Barnes. He got ejected for like he was probably I don't know 15 feet away from a referee and he was talking in a fashion that at least on TV did not look like he was screaming or yelling at anybody and that ref came in and threw him out of the game and you could see he was like, what the fuck?

Like what's going on? So I apologize you know about the buildup today but on the heels of that because it it spoke to me when I saw that a couple nights ago I was like wait a minute what that's that's not appropriate and then this happened so I just blew my top here's here's what I would say about controlling a game yes well it is your job to control a game and I've always said this I'm not saying don't give anybody a tech to the point you just made you know if I'm MF and you and and I'm demonstrative and I'm trying to show you up give me the tech that's I'm not I do that not a problem

them. It's okay. I'm not saying you shouldn't give text. And clearly you have to control the game, right? You can control the game with your whistle and the way you ref the game and avoid most fights. Can you dig what I'm saying? You can do that. I do want to shout out a good ref thing that I saw and that I think would be what I would like to see out of refs as just a casual observer. I'm not a former player. But like there was a, you saw the Mavs Suns game over the weekend where, you see Devin Booker and and Dodgers get into it, right? Yeah.

Now, there's a world where a ref can go in and be like, no, y'all ejected or you guys are, and it affects the game. Gave him a double tech. It didn't affect the game because there was no, there was no free throws being had or anything like that. That's more of what I would like to see. Like, yo, y'all messed up, but it doesn't affect the game. There are plenty of great refs. I don't mean to make it sound like this is all refs. That's not what I mean.

plenty of really good reps. And most of them, I thought, shared this particular, like, willingness. And it's the willingness to communicate, right? It's approachability. Who are reps that come to mind? It's being able to, I don't know, Logan. I, they were there fucking, I don't remember all of those fools, man. But the reality is there were a handful of them, more than a handful, that would have a conversation with you. Like, in a situation like that, I would like to think that I could say to someone, listen, Fred, if you keep that shit up,

I'm gonna get your fucking tech. I'm letting you know right now. So you can either walk away, I'm gonna walk away. But if you come back over here with that shit, I'm gonna tech you up. Fred VanVleet now knows.

I am not having any more of that. And that's prior to giving him the tech. I don't know that that did not transpire. Right? But probably didn't. So I always found that like, again, the ones that would talk to you, the ones that would,

I said this to a young ref the other day, we're in a gym, right? Ref was ref in a game. We were beating a team really bad. Something happened right in front of our bench. So like it literally happened four feet away from me, right? He was at a position. There was a two-man crew,

and he was trailing the play. He was on the baseline opposite, opposite end of the court. The ball comes up the court relatively quickly. He's way behind the play. Can't really see what's happening. I'm sitting four feet from it. So he calls whatever the call was, right? And I was like, that's not what happened.

Like, he was like, yes, it is. And I was like, all right, it didn't really matter, right? Because they were going to shoot their free throws. It was a foul on us. Like, we're up 30. But he was standing next to my bench as they shot their free throws. And I said, you know what, man? I was like, you probably want to be a ref at a higher level, right?

You're in here, refing like an AAU tournament right now. Like, you probably want to be at a higher level. He was like, yeah. I said, well, let me give you a little advice. He was like, okay, what? And I was like, no, man, I'm not trying to be a dick. Like I'm just, I say this to a lot of refs. I was like, if you as a ref would have the capacity to, to understand that you might not have got something right.

And then the ability to say to someone just that, like, yo, I might not have got that right. But it's what I called. That would go so far with someone that they would get off of you in a way that you wouldn't probably have to ever give them a tech. I know you wouldn't have to give me one. Just that. The problem with most dudes is refs that always think, how the fuck are you always right? It's impossible.

So you can never in all of our dealings over the course of 13 seasons and however many games you reft of mine in those 13 seasons, not one time have you ever been? Hey, Raj, I might have blown that. And typically, I can't, I didn't write it down and I'm just going off of memory. but I would say that 97.9% of the ones that told me at one point or another, I might have missed that or I didn't really see it or, hey, man, I'll take a look at that at

half time, not sure. Those were ones that I never had a problem with. And the ones that I did have a problem with were the ones they put the hand up real quick or turn her back and walk away from you, but let you, hey, you're not on my level, though. You can't talk to me. You want to get somebody heated who's already like got his venom up and got adrenaline flowing. and is competing for his livelihood,

don't have a conversation with him on some shit that affects his livelihood and see how that goes. Hoof. Any final words on just how you feel about refting in the modern game? Because we're not going to have any more opportunities on this one, bud.

It's a very hard job. And I'm not judging overall, like the quality of refs and stuff like that. But I think it's important for them to understand that they are not the show, the players are the show, and given the opportunity to avoid inserting yourself into the game.

Given the opportunity to avoid that, avoid it. How you feel, buddy? I feel good. I feel good. It's like a weight lifted off my chest. I'm good. Oh, man. Speaking of getting some shit off people's chest,

Dylan Brooks and Draymond Green. I told you about this. I don't even know if you, I don't know if you knew, had any idea this was happening at the prepod meeting. But then in the prepop meeting, I gave me and third I gave you like the rundown it and I just saw your face.

You just had the biggest smile starting to form on your face. This is your, this episode is all of Roger's bags in one. This is just, it's it. We're in here. We're talking about Phoenix Suns. We're talking about reffing. And we talk about beef between two players. Hey, you're not far off.

It's a lot of my bags there. A lot of your bags. So Jarmine Green and Dylan Brooks are, mind you, the Grizzlies and the Warriors play tonight. I can't wait to watch this. It's in Memphis. So Dylan Brooks, I think a few days ago, said, I don't like Draymond Green at all. If you put him anywhere else, you're not going to know who Draymond is.

Right. And so, Draymond Green, who, you know, after a brief, a more than brief hiatus from his podcast is back. And I was going to read you a couple quotes of his response to that. This is, I'm going to start with Brooks's full comments. I'm just going to go down the line. This is what Brooke said. I don't like Dremont at all. I just don't like Golden State.

I don't like anything to do with him. Dremont talks a lot. Gets away with the lot too. Seems like a little dry snitching. His game is cool with Golden State. But if you put him anywhere else, you're not going to know who Dremon Green is. He plays with heart, plays hard,

knows the ends and outs of their defense. I guess that's why they like him over there. This was, this was Dremont's response on the Dremon Green show. He said, this is Draymond referring to Dylan Brooks.

He said, I just don't like Golden State. I quite frankly wouldn't like a team that beats me all the time either. That's number two.

I don't want anything to do with them. Quite frankly, you were a little kid in high school watching us win championships. You should be happy that you even witnessed

that. You're a fan. That's crazy. Draymond Green goes on. If you ever wondered why, the Memphis Grizzlies are not ready to compete for a championship. Look no further than this idiot right here, Green said of Brooks.

They actually are depending on this guy to help them win a championship. And he says his game is cool. Quite frankly, that just shows how little you know about basketball. There's more. There's more, Raja. Your level, this is Draymond Green talking about Dylan Brooks. your level of understanding the game of basketball is at a fan level. And you're running around talking about a dynasty,

the dynasty that starts after you, not with you, that's just a fact. I know dynasty like players. They aren't clowns. That doesn't work when building a dynasty. Take it from me. I actually know clowns don't work building a dynasty. There's more, Raja. Wow.

This is the kicker. I'm trying to figure out why they like you in Memphis. Or do they like you in Memphis? That's a better question. I'm not even sure your teammates like you, but I can tell you they like me over here in Golden State. When you contribute in the way that I have contributed to four championships, they tend to like you.

Wow. Roger, I don't know about you, but I'm watching Grizzlies Warriors tonight. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be tapped into that. You barked up the wrong tree, Dylan Brooks, apparently. Where is, where, where do you, stand on this.

Draymond made some great points on this. Dylan Brooks just isn't helping his case. He's not helping his case. He has in a lot of ways. I've had my beef like publicly where I traded words with probably the biggest star in the game. So I'm not of the belief that just because someone's a better player than you or won more championships than you that you can't beef with them.

Like or speak your mind, you know, about them. Now, what I would never make my mouth up to do is like let's use my beef publicly with Kobe. Like I would never make my mouth up to question his ability to play basketball or what he meant to the Lakers or, you know, his ability to win games or anything like that.

Like I ain't get into that. Like if it's a personal thing, like you got some personal beef, I'm here to tell you. Like I don't see why one man is Draymond in this case scenario because of his accomplishments allows him to never be spoken to by another man. Dylan Brooks, who ain't accomplished as much. I don't believe in that. But you question in his ability when he got way more, like, resume than you is a silly thing to do.

And it got your ass in trouble. So, like, on Draymond's side, I don't know that I would say that that boy's knowledge and basketball IQ is that of a fan. I don't think I'd go that far. I think that was a little hyperbolic. But I will say this. Some of what he said is in lockstep with what. what we've said and I've said before about Memphis with all of them antics and all the shit

they got going on all the time. And I think that's fair. And I think, you know, that if anyone were to know what pieces go into creating a dynasty in today's NBA currently right now, it would be someone from the Golden State Warriors that's been a part of the whole thing and it's been an integral part in its success. So I will defer to Dreamon as it relates to that. Because I, you know what I'm saying? Like that would just be a prudent thing to do. And MoFo has won a bunch of championships in Golden State.

And so I'm here for, I'm here for the entertainment value. I think that Memphis has way too much of that shit going on. Like way too much. It's just, you know, good teams are usually relatively quiet and boring, except for the product that they're putting out. Do you know what I mean? And like they're just the antithesis of that. And then Draymond, like, again, I always felt like, you know,

I always had a great relationship with the media for the most part. I made it my business to have. I liked all the people. Like, I thought it was two hands, like washing each other type of relationship. We've talked about this. But if there was ever a dude that I didn't really like or, or, or, or a little that I didn't really like or didn't appreciate it. I certainly wasn't getting into a real beef with them.

Do you know why, Logan? Why is that? Because they had the fucking pen and the keyboard and I didn't. And I was never going to win that. So in this scenario, bro, you're not beating Dremont. He's got his own podcast, my boy. Like, this man can sit up there and punt him. Like, he could go off for hours on Dylan Brooks.

he wanted to. Clearly, it sounds like he did. Here's the thing, bro, and I've been around Dremont a long time. I've been, I've covered him. I've, I've, you know, just being around the bay, just seeing him.

Here's the thing about Dremont, dog. You're not going to go lower than Dremont, bro. You're not going to do it. Dremon Green did after he punched his teammate in the face, did a whole reality show right after that.

Right. And that's with his teammate. That's what this teammate who called him a brother at a point in time. If he did that with him and he has his own podcast and you are the, and mind's you, he cares about that teammate. He cares about those guys right there. He's not going to go light on someone that is a rival. and that has been a guy that has been on a team that has been saying a lot of stuff

for a team that hasn't beaten him, right? They got a lot of loose rap. That's number one. Number two, Dylan Brooks has not been in a great bag over the last year and a half, okay? When you talk about what he has done in terms of in the playoffs last year, what happened? he dislocates another player's elbow, right? Like just not playing clean, right? Just not at all, right?

Has consistently got into it with other players and just things that have been a detriment to his basketball team. That is a fact. This season that has continued when you talk about the big brouhaha at Staples. I'm not calling it the other name. the thing that happened against the Lakers, with everything that happened, that was a direct result of him, right?

We could talk about what happened with Shannon Sharp, but he apologized for that. But if Dylan Brooks just doesn't even say anything, it just continues to play basketball, that doesn't happen, right? And then this, you're after when, when your team is in the middle of a playoff race where you don't have your top guy

and you guys need to win every game down the stretch, don't really need distractions in a season that has given you so many distractions. You go and say a quote like this against a guy that again, you're not going to go lower than. And you make this a distraction. And honestly, if you're the Warriors right now, if you're Draymond, you're trying to beat the hell out of Memphis tonight. And that could change the course of their season considering what we just talked about in the beginning of our program. right a one in Memphis for the Warriors at this point in the season can change the trajectory of where they're going to go and you might see them down the line because this regular season Warriors team is going to be way different than the team you see in the postseason especially if it's the Grizzlies versus the Warriors you don't want to this is the this is just the symptom of what we've been talking about with the Grizzlies all season long where a lot of dip on their chip you know how I feel about teams sticking their chest. out before they haven't done anything.

The Warriors can do that. I think they're like two games over 500, but they won four titles, bro. They can talk that mess and still lose. It doesn't matter. Everything is gravy on that side. You, on the other hand, cannot do that. And I think that that's just a symptom of what the Grizzlies have built.

It's been great in spurts, but on the other hand, it's just been just a lot of just dip on their chip. And we're seeing their downfall because of it, man. It's just honestly just disappointing. Like, just what are we doing right now? There's so much talent on that team. And they just, God, especially after the week they've had. It's just like just like just icing on the cake of just like, what the fuck, Raja.

It's where I'm at. That's what I'll say to that because I think you said a lot there. So I'll just say this. He better come out and play well tonight. I know that. Oh, he better because there's going to be a lot of people in Memphis like in Memphis. Like, yeah, why, Dylan? Because there's like, here's another thing.

you hear of like just the eye rolls in Memphis like why you do this bro like why what are we doing right here specifically with Dylan Brooks right and also do not want to minimize this me and Kai were talking about this pre-pod is without the antics pretty good basketball player

could make could make really big shots three point shooter I've seen him play like great defense against LeBron like is really like he has he has something in him that can be really valuable to a basketball team but he undercuts that with shit like this. For sure.

And I think they go hand in hand. I've often felt, and I've said it kind of in a roundabout way. I think he lacks a little bit of awareness. And I think it showed in this like exchange with Draymond and kind of going at somebody who's way more accomplished. But I even think you see it or I used to see it at Memphis at times, maybe not so much anymore of like while you do all of that great stuff.

Like you go down the stretch like get that man to ball dog. Like you know what I mean? Not him, but the other one. Jha or someone else. And sometimes he's like in. hurting himself into those moments in a way that you're like, what? Like, you shot, you shot that? You know what I mean?

Like, and so I think, you know, they generally speak and some of them have a lack of awareness over there a little growing up to do. But I just, listen, play well tonight. I'm going to be tapped in. Question for you. Yeah. All right. You're putting your, you're putting your blue Warriors jersey on it.

That you played one game in. All right. Number 18, baby. What's good with it? Yep. Yep. So you're a warrior at this point. You're playing Memphis tonight.

What are you thinking? Where's your head at? Where are the warriors at right now? This is an opportunity for the warriors. Make no mistake about it. What is your mindset going into this game after what just happened? Well, it could be a statement game late in the season. I ain't worried about that.

I'm not worried about him. You know what I mean? But we got a chance, like, as a competitor, someone who's been talking a lot, who keeps our name in their mouth consistently, we could go into their building and we got a chance to catch them without their star player

we need to hit them early and hit them often man we need to not take our foot off of their neck if we get a chance and that's what we're going in there to do all business now you're going to take that 18 off you're going to put that that grizzlies number 19 jersey on right what are you thinking at that point

from the Memphis standpoint after this happens I mean it would it would be just the opposite, man. Like, look, we're without, we're without Jha. They're coming into this building. They ain't playing, like, there are two games above 500. We feel like we were really close. We should have won that, you know, last year. Let's go home. Let's go out. Let's go out tonight and show them that, like, this is not going to be cake. And that even without Jail, we could get this done. And it, you know, it's got to be the same mentality that the Golden State had just on the, you know, reciprocal like and flip side of it like yo we're coming to hit you in the mouth don't come in here

with that bullshit like don't don't come in here thinking this cake this is not cake and we're going to be physical and it can get grimy and we're at home and we're going to put the onus on the refs to see how they act but like we're we're coming to fight who wins tonight golden state there we go all right i think i'm thinking golden state i think this is just one of those games we're like yeah we got to make a statement we're going to go kick their ass i think that that's one of those games. I think that's where the Warriors are. And just Draymond's just going to be flying all over the place.

Yeah. All right, man. It's Thursday. Y'all know what it is. It's time for real one of the week. Ra, who you got? This really hurts my heart to say this. It does.

And it's not my real one for like my affection for what they did or even thinking that it was necessarily the right thing to do. So I want to preface it with that. but the action itself, I have to respect and call real, real when I see it, right? Otherwise, I don't get to call myself a real one. It's the Baltimore Ravens, dog. They, I mean, again, I don't agree with it. I think they should have locked them up, taking care of Lamar Jackson, made sure that you had.

But what they've said is, we ain't doing a guaranteed contract. We're not continuing to set precedent with that. And effectively, we have you in a very unique situation for the NFL, which is unrestricted free agency. And NFL teams have shown a real reluctance to go out there and negotiate and try to sign somebody away from another team. Like you don't see it like you see it in the NBA all the time. And they knew Lamar, without an agent, might not have had a complete wear with all of what that picture looked like if he got out into a restricted market. Now, again, I would have paid him. I hope they do pay him.

I want Lamar to get everything he should get. I am maybe his number one damn fan. But the exercise of taking that shit down to the wire and then throwing the non-exclusive tag at fucking Lamar Jackson, you were real one for that. Amar. Lamar, I don't know if you listen to this. I only talk to you once in my life.

Come to the Raiders, bro. Pull up. Pull up. Pull up. Pull up. We'll take you. You know what I mean? Word. We'll take you. I talked to him.

I talked to him. I was doing it. I went to Baltimore, November to do a piece on Marcus Peters. And I went up to Lamar and I was like, yo, can I ask you some questions about Marcus? And he was like,

hell yeah. All mamas. And I'm like, yo. He said, oh, mammas. Yeah. He got some Oakland, Ties. I know it's the Oakland,

Las Vegas, Los Angeles Raiders, but you know, come to the Silver and Black. That'd be a fire jersey. That would be a dope-ass eight jersey. I want to clarify again, bro. Like,

you got to understand what I'm saying. I hope real ones can sift through this. I don't think, I think it's a huge mistake and a complete insult to Lamar for a lot of reasons. Bro, I'm not going to get into all of them right now. But the act,

the audacity, the fearlessness way in which they did it. Like that is... They was consistent the whole time. It was like... Don't! Even with accelerating like just salaries, bro. Like, even just with each...

Like, when you think about the Derek Carr move, right? Your man, Daniel Jones in New York, right? Who got that contract? I was like, what the hell was going on? Right. The raven's to the firm like, nope, nope. Hey, listen, I don't, again, don't support it. Don't agree with it.

but the act itself. Also, I'm currently reading it. I'm currently reading it. I saw a piece in the athletic that says why it won't work in Oakland or in, in Las Vegas with the writers because owner Mark Davis isn't believed to have the cash flow to be able to pull off the type of contract that Jackson is believed to be coveting. Back in the, you know, that's my whole life right there. Okay.

Speaking of Oakland, I'm going to go to my ruin of the week. I have two co-ruling of the weeks. All right. I'm going to go with Oakland, Oakland High School for the boys basketball team who is going to the state title game up in sack. And I'm going to go with the Oakland Tech girls team who's joining them and also going to sack for the state title game. Get it. All right. Yo, man, they had to, it was fun.

It was crazy. I didn't make it out, but it was popping. They had for the, so in Oakland, it's interesting. They have a, we have sectional. I mean, I know you guys have that in Florida. We have like sections of like to get into the title game, into the title tournament. Right.

But Oakland has its own section that just puts you into the, to the tournament, right? It's the state tournament. So that means to get into the state tournament, you're basically playing an Oakland team to get there. So the other night, Oakland Tech was playing Oakland high for a chance to go to the state title game. So and for the boys.

And so Oakland High won that, if you guys aren't familiar with Oakland High alumni base, Dame Lillard went there. Also, shout out to my guy, Jabari Brown, shout out to Mills. Shout out to my dog Kelly, all my Oakland High people. I still ain't forget the fact when we was my senior year of high school, we blew y'all out in football. We're not going to talk about that, though. But shout out to all my partners at Oakland High. And also shout out to the girls' team at Oakland Tech.

and also my homie Gus and all my homies out there. And also shout out to Coach Leroy Hunt, who should be a coach at Berkeley High Girls team. But I digress. Shout out to one of the best coaches in the Bay, Leroy Hunt, who brought them back to the state title game. It's going to be fun, man. It's going to be fun.

So shout out to Oakland Tech. And shout out to Oakland High School. Good luck, Big Dog. See y'all, man. See y'all. And that has been another edition of Rewans, our Thursday edition. we will see you guys next week

great pod by Ra phenomenal pod one of his best by us by us sir thank you by us yes all right

all right we'll see you guys next week we're in a stretch run y'all know what it is we lock it in let's get it talk to y'all soon

man hollip