The Ringer NBA Show - The Jokic-Murray Combo Makes History in Game 3, Plus the Chris Paul Derby Begins | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos recap the Denver Nuggets winning Game 3 of the NBA Finals on the road, headlined by 30-point triple-doubles for Nikola Jokic and Jamal Murray. They discuss Christian Braun’s breakout game, Jimmy Butler’s impact, and possible adjustments for the Miami Heat (3:03). Then, they sort through all of the news about Chris Paul potentially being waived by the Phoenix Suns, and discuss the best possible landing spots for the veteran point guard if he does leave Phoenix (40:20). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everyone, it's Ariel Hawani, and I wanted to let you know that each and every week, I'm part of a great program called The Ringer MMA Show. I hosted alongside two absolutely brilliant minds. Their names, Chuck Mindenhall and Pizzie Carroll. And every Thursday, a new episode drops where we preview the weekend in mixed martial arts and react to all the biggest news. Plus, after every UFC pay-per-view, we give you a post-fight show. So this is what you have to do. Just follow the Ringer M-M-M-A show on your Spotify app.

So you don't miss an episode. We'll talk to you then. Welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me two guys wearing the same hand sewn see-through white cardigans. How embarrassing that you showed up

in the same outfit. Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. What's up, my stylish friends? All right, you're really going to need to walk me through this one. Waz? The artist formerly known as Dee Wade was wearing the most

ridiculous outfit courtside. to the heat game, which should kind of be expected by now. You got a nice moment. It was basically a doily. It was it, was it not just a linen shirt? I think it was crochet. It was like a crocheted through joint. Yeah, so if you wanted to get some quick nip action, you were good to go.

Not suitable for work. Rob, that must have been embarrassing where you showed up in the same outfit. I see that you've changed for the podcast. I appreciate that. I didn't want to bring it up, but if you're just going to put me on blast like that. I thought it was work appropriate. It was. I don't know what you're saying about D. Wade not being able to wear it to work.

But for a media member in a press conference, I thought it was appropriate for me. By the way, isn't he a Nuggets employee, excuse me, Utah Jazz employee now he's even allowed to be doing all his heat repping anymore? I'm confused by this. Well, he's not a jazz employee. He's a jazz employer. Oh, yeah.

So yeah, he's part of ownership. Jay Z style. Well, Rob is literally Mr. 305 tonight because you were checking in live from the top levels of the Miami Heat Arena. I forgot what it's called these days. I don't really see any like official signage up here. I'm going to be honest with you. But I'm just surrounded by white hot playoff banners. I'm up here with all of the Hall of Fame, all of the retired jerseys.

You know, it's really just like Zoe and D. Wade and Chris Bosch and me. This is the company I keep up here. Culture. Culture, culture, culture. When I think White Hot, I think Rob Mahoney on this podcast. Facts. You said it. It is definitely applicable.

All right, we're going to get into some Chris Paul madness later in this podcast. We have to start first with game three of the NBA finals. What a decisive win for the Denver Nuggets. Although I will say, even being up 14 points going into the fourth quarter, it felt like everyone was incredibly tight, including on Denver side to the point where they played Nicola Yokic and Jamal Murray until the wheels fell off. Rob, as we mentioned, you're there. Where do you want to start with this one?

Did it feel as dominating as it did probably from afar for us? It felt pretty convincing. I think we have to start with Yokic and Murray, who, look, let's start with the lines. Yokish 32, 21 and 10, the first 30, 2010 triple double in finals history. Jamal Murray, a 34 point triple double, meaning these are the first teammates with triple doubles in finals history and the first teammates with 30 point triple doubles ever. I had the thought during this game, and especially as it was kind of winding down and we got a sense of what the outcome would be.

And I want to fact check it with you guys. I want to vet it with you guys. Yokic and Murray are the best two-man game in the NBA finals since when. You know, you could go back to, you know, I think recent history, you got LeBron and AD. You got LeBron and Kyrie running an inverted pick and roll. You got Stefan Dremont. you got, you know, go back further, what, Tony Parker and Tim Duncan. And we're not really calling Steph and KD a two man.

No. They never really worked off of each other. They didn't interact in that way. KD was allergic to screens and kind of still is, but that's neither here nor there. That's a conversation for a different day or maybe just later in this day as we get into the Chris Paul conversation. But I think the point being there are pairings of better players that have been in the NBA finals. I don't know that there have been a pairing that works as well together. in recent history as these two guys.

Well, you're just serving it up for Waz here. I mean, look, I'm the Murray to his Yokic, you know? I'm just sneaking around and send him up. At this point, it's not even about a victory lap or anything like that. This is just what they do. It's what they've been doing essentially since the 2020 playoffs. Like, this is who they've been. Throughout that next regular season before the ACL tier,

They were just as good and dominant as a two-man combo in generating just quality looks for Denver's offense. I think, honestly, the third quarter that Yolkich had to me was the decisive moments and minutes of the game. They come into the second half up five, and it just shows you that Miami, their margin for error in this series is so razor thin. I'm watching that first half. I'm like, look, I like the looks they're generating on offense, the heat that is. I thought they did a great job of running Denver through the freaking ringer, if you can pardon my pun on the screens, off ball, both actually on ball to just, they were making Denver defend every single inch of real estate in the half court.

And I thought they generated some beautiful looks, put themselves in a position to be only down five. This is a team that's been second. and half killer all playoff long. And I'm like, man, I kind of like the position that Miami's in right now. And then they have a quarter where they come up with three, four, five, empty possessions in a row. And Yokic is just mauling you, starting five for five. I mean, Rob, the positions in the court, he does a pin down, catch and shoot,

mid-range jump shot as if he's Reggie Miller. Of course, he had a couple of ones where he called. caught the mismatch down low, where he just scores in the post over Vincent. He had the spin move on BAM. Like, it was just ridiculous the way he dissected these guys. And that was the difference. They went up by 14 going into the fourth. Obviously, Michael Malone had PTSD from Game 2, where they also went into the fourth quarter with the lead.

And he's like, you know what? I need my security blanket. Oh, yeah. And I'm going to leave Yokachin to start the fourth. I wish this was a video podcast on Spotify because the faces Rob was making it was almost as if he was just like savoring a delicious tiara masseu

or something like that just swirling it around in his mouth giving a little sniff that's what it is really you know the Yokic Murray pick and roll really the tiramisu of two man games of two men games will work on the plurality of that

but I'm was I'm obviously with you like really when you watch Yokic in this game in particular the only way you could pick Nitz in his performance was there were times where he would pump fake a three when he probably could have taken it. And this is one of the best three-point shooters in this series probably could have taken it. And I'm over here,

I'm sitting with our co-worker Michael Pina and I'm nudging him like, why doesn't he take that shot? And then he drives in and throws it up and Aaron Gordon gets a dunk. It's like, oh, well, that's why he doesn't take that shot because he can get whatever he wants, basically whenever he wants in this series.

And, you know, we can talk ourselves blue in the face about making yoke. a score, making Jimmy Butler a score, like how these defenses work and orient themselves. The reality is, Yokic can impact this game pretty much any way he wants to. And he showed that. And I think honestly, Jamal Murray showed it too. Like as much as anything, Murray, he had such like a film session win to me in the sense that he came on the first quarter. He knew exactly where his gaps were.

He knew exactly how to get into those mid-range spots and create those shots. And as the game went on, he was so good that Miami couldn't switch anymore. They had to start trapping him to try to get the ball out of his hands. And that led to some ugly possessions, some turnovers. But it also led to some beasts where Murray would wait out the trap. And instead of just dishing it off to Yokic for the easy outlet would wait until Christian Brown came open baseline, until Aaron Gordon sprung open, dumping off for easier and easier scores as the game went on.

The way Murray read this game, I just thought was incredibly sophisticated, was incredibly high level. And that's on top of the fact that, man, that dude was just freaking nails in terms of of the shot making. This building got really, really loud, especially in the first half, that second quarter. There were some tight moments where the heat were making huge runs. And Jamal would just sidestep into what ended up being some of the biggest shots of the game,

just like pull up three, sidestep threes that quieted this building completely. Right. There were moments in the second quarter where it felt like Miami was going to get their eight or nine point lead and cushioned the way that they ended up doing in parts of game two, which ended up being, you know, what carried them through the day to that game two victory. And Murray hit some incredibly huge shots. There was one sort of at the left elbow extended three point line in that half where I was just like, look, Devere is down four. You know, they missed that.

The next possession, you never know. Miami and one, they're down seven. Like, okay, now Miami's playing with the lead. They're playing a lot more comfortably. But Murray throughout the entire night was just making big shot after big shot. there were a lot of gargantuan stat lines from this game, including some of the ones that Rob mentioned. Anytime you're getting into Wilt Territory, you're basically on Mount Olympus in the NBA history books. My favorite from this one, five made three-pointers in total for the Denver Nuggets, five for 18,

and three of them came from Jamal Murray. This wasn't an instance that we've seen in the past with Denver, where it was just a collective or just like Yokic opening up three-point opportunities and them just pouring it on. this was literally the Nuggets just dominating with the two best players on the core. And like looking on the opposite side of things, he also had a poor three-point shooting games. But how many times have we talked about how much they need to work the math advantage in order to make up for the margins that they're lacking in other places? The Nuggets didn't do that. They didn't need to do that because they were just the dominant big dog team in, as you mentioned, a very hostile environment on the road for the first time in the NBA.

First time in the NBA finals for a lot of these guys. There's a really impressive victory. Yeah, I mean, you obviously want to as a team rely on that math advantage. To milk as many threes as you can create that are open, that are good looks, that are for good shooters. But you have to have these kinds of alternatives. Because ultimately, not only did the Nuggets only hit five threes, I think only two of those were really spot up threes. Like the Murray shots were mostly sidesteps or pull-ups. Yokic had one spot three, basically, and Bruce Brown had one spot three.

Otherwise, not only did they not make spot threes, they really didn't generate them. The heat were all over that stuff. To the point that Michael Porter Jr., I mean, bless him, was just like out of this game offensively, just could not find his angles, could not find opportunities to score. When the ball finally did come to him wide open in the corner, he bricked a three because he was just like so out of rhythm. And I think he was able to impact the game as a rebounder and in some other ways. But ultimately, in terms of the scoring workload, it really was all driven by that two-man action with Yokich and Murray. and some of the cuts that came off of it and some of the dump-offs that came off of it.

But those two are just so good in the intermediate spaces. And Yokic in particular, I know these moments are prone to hyperbole, the NBA finals, these huge games, these huge sequences, but I don't know that we've ever seen a player with the kind of touch he has before.

What he's able to do in terms of absorbing contact and finishing from like four to 12 feet, I mean, the way that ball just kind of like softly rolls off the rim every single time. It's unbelievable. He's just an unbelievable like hard shot score. It looks like a trick shot

you would see like on an Instagram video. But the difference is a lot of those in the NBA finals. Those are all clipped in order to only show the makes whereas Yokic is actually making all of these.

The way it just like rolls in as if like it was destined to is unlike anything I've ever seen. He's the dude perfect of the NBA is what you're saying. I mean, what's so crazy is that After, this is how insane the shots that he's making is that my man, Skip Bayless said he had the luckiest game of his life after game two, even though he's been doing it for six years.

A guy could be doing some, what he's doing is so crazy. He could do it for six years. And to the untrained eye, it looks like this guy is making completely lucky shots. I don't know though we can use the phrase untrained eye on this podcast anymore. I think that's a watch phrase for the NBA final. Look, that's Skip Bayless comment, though. That's a big moment for us, was. At the point where Skip is turning his eye to Nicola Yokic, guys, we have made it.

We have finally made it. He is worthy of that kind of commentary. I can't believe we got here, but we did. Nicole Yokic, in the crosshairs of every punt did in the sporting world right now. I know. If you asked Dan Lebitard, he's widely hated amongst American fans because he's not American for some reason. I didn't realize that most casual fans even knew who Yokka was before he made it to the final stage.

Like he definitely didn't reach the mom test until he got here. But apparently there's just widespread visceral for our guy, which I was not aware of. But that's a whole other topic, I guess. Well, Christian Brown, an American-born player, even your mother could love, Justin. That's true. Wow, this is your moment. Listen, listen, I have been, as you guys know, not just on this show, but in group text. I've been pumping up this Christian Brown kid.

Basically since like January. Yeah, since like January where I'm just like, look, he's got incredible tools. Look at his size. And for me, my favorite thing is motor. He plays insanely hard the entire time out there. And he's not a zero on offense. And the two things stuck out to me. One, that Mike Brown, Mike Brown.

Mike Malone. Michael Malone Michael Malone Oh we're not allowed to call him Mike We're not Oh wow Okay Michael Michael Michael

Michelle Malone Trusted him enough To put him on Jimmy Butler Which I was like wow Like a rookie in the finals Against the dominant wing performer Of the playoffs this year

That's amazing And the second part to me That was critical was that he was basically the zone buster, right? They're firing it to this guy at the three point line. He's making a move, drawing the defender and making a play after that.

This is high-level big stuff. This is what makes or breaks series. The ability for role players to step in the openings created by the superstars and actually deliver. And Christian Brown, our basketball savior from the great

basketball state of Kansas. Hallelujah. Let's go incredible night for him. Yeah, if we can just go a full ringer here, it really felt like he market corrected Duncan Robinson in this game. Not Caleb Martin? Well, I think Duncan Robinson market corrected Caleb Martin and then he was market corrected by Christian Brown.

It's a complicated chain of custody. But the point being was, like you're right about the zone. There were two plays in particular that jumped out from with Christian Brown against zone-ish coverage, zone S coverage from the heat, where Christian Brown drove in. drew defenders and dumped off to Nicola Yokic, who was open. Those are the kind of plays he was making

where he was assertive enough and aggressive enough that the heat had to respond to him. Yokic, after this game in the press conference, and said, like, Christian Brown won us this game. Straight up, won us this game. And I think, honestly, is a remarkable story given that Christian Brown is a rookie. He's 22 years old.

That dude got straight up benched in the Western Conference finals, yanked off the floor in game three, did not play in game four. Did not play in game four. I think there are a lot of players. He's getting emotional. He's getting choked up.

Talking about the next great white hope. But I feel the same way. It's been a long night. I think there are a lot of players in that moment who just kind of disappear. And we never really hear from them again over the course of a playoff run. But not only is he more playable in this matchup,

his defense has been essential, his energy has been essential. And in this case, game has offense surprisingly turned out to be a huge, a huge boon for the Denver Nuggets. Listen, the white American is a beloved subgenre of NBA players on this podcast, as anyone who has listened to this podcast knows. But the subgenre of the white American of the tough as nails, I will mean mug you and throw my body into you at the rim and score over you is like a very select, beloved, beautiful group that I'm not even sure there is many

still there. I don't know, Waz, you're the expert here. You could probably correct me, but like, there's something about a guy who brings it in the way that he does that you just, like, you got to gravitate toward. So the thing about Christian Brown is he is doing hard-nosed stuff, but he's not doing it with Moxie. This guy has above-average NBA athleticism. I know we're not allowed to say that about white people anymore. But, like, if you saw that steel and breakaway dunk, the speed, the hops, The power. This guy is an incredible athlete.

And yeah, he almost yammed it on Bam at a bio. And just like on an, what would have been an one basically? Just got rim checked a little bit. He can get up. There's a mini Westbrook type of quality to him. Certainly not the athlete or the physicality. But there's like a little bit of that to him.

Yeah, it's energy. And I think, again, you don't think of many of the nuggets guys of of dudes that are going to force turnover. on the other team by overwhelming them with athleticism and all of that stuff. But Christian Brown for two games in a row, might I add, he's looked like a godsend. And it's beautiful, beautiful to see because our guy,

Bruce Brown is going to get paid this summer. He's going to be gone. And they're going to need Christian Brown to step right on up into those minutes next season, when or losing the finals here. And so it's got to be pretty heartening, to see if you're a Nuggets fan. Well, in the name of fair journalism,

and just to really close the loop on the Westbrook comparison, Justin made, Christian Brown did also miss a three off the side of the backboard in this game. That happens. He has those kinds of moments. The shot is not entirely there, but guess what?

He chased down the rebound, right? Like, these are the kinds of place he ends up making. And one reason why even the other, his teammates will tell you that they don't really mind his mistakes. They are mistakes of aggression. They're the kinds of mistakes that they want.

and certainly the kinds of plays that, you know, whatever side of that margin he's on when he's shooting the gaps on defense, when he's attacking in transition, it changed this game, for sure. Listen, depending on how he comes back next, like, summer or after the summer, like, might be just as good as Westbrook season. So it remains.

Let's relax. Let's relax. Well, I will say, though, it's been a while since the Nuggets had really minted one of these, like, late round picks that they kind of built their entire franchise around. remember now because you look around there's like an all-star practically every spot or at least a bulletproof like starter that anybody would want on a team but like they built this team by just

finding guys i mean obviously but but porter and on down the list moni morris for instance they don't have a lot of those guys in reserve because they traded them to get a guy like erin gordon but like brown i think people are hyped on peyton watson even though he doesn't play like seeing the nuggets feeder system kind of kick in again was night to see because because as was mentioned, it is going to get more complicated to keep this team together. And like, they need guys like that to step into roles. And they needed Brown tonight in particular because it seems like the Michael Porter

Jr. stock is, is unfortunately plummeted to the point where, like, he wasn't getting a lot of minutes down the stretch. Rob, is it, was it as bad defensively as it was made to seem? Because if you check Twitter, it would seem like Michael Porter Jr. was on the most wanted list for just, like, poor defense. in this game that was the impression yeah honestly like game two I had that impression

for sure game two Michael Porter Jr. and Jamal Murray I think were culprits in a lot of exchanges a lot of miscommunications a lot of the situation which situations in which Denver did not close out to shooters in game two this one to be honest Porter did make mistakes

certainly offensively he was a little bit of a mess but I thought not only was he good enough but really the third quarter really the whole second half for the Denver Nuggets is the kind of half we've been asking questions about all year. Do they have that in them? In must-win games, in huge high-leverage moments, can they lock down defensively as a collective the way they ended up doing? And we led this with Yokic and Murray.

Obviously, their stat lines jump off the sheet. Christian Brown is deserving of tons of praise. The reason Denver won this game is that they held Miami to 37% shooting from the field, that they held their offense to like 27 points worse per 100 possessions. than they did in game two. The defense showed up in a way. It just did not in the last game. And in particular,

it did not over the second half of the last game. So there's some technical reasons that's true. Like they just didn't overreact to Jimmy Butler quite so much. They obviously were just like more plugged in on the game plan and the details. They nailed that stuff down. And to the point where, sure, Michael Porter,

Jr. made some mistakes defensively. I think more of the reason he was kind of like waning minutes and bleeding minutes is just like he wasn't contributing enough offensively relative to someone like Bruce Brown, relative to someone like Christian Brown. It was easy to kind of plug in one of those other spots in his stead. But defensively, as a collective, they were good enough. Yeah, I was on Ryan's show last week. And it came up.

He was like, well, shouldn't Jimmy be trying to attack Michael Porter Jr. And I was like, and I think this game, boy, that I don't know, I don't think he's a target for Jimmy. He's so freaking huge. He's got so much length. He's going to bother Jimmy's makes. What he's a target for is that off ball. stuff that Rob just mentioned. The miscommunications, the dying on the screens, the not fighting on second efforts,

the not contesting from behind using his link to bother guys. There's times where he's not going to give that full-throated effort, and that would be problematic for Denver. But I thought defensively, he was good enough. He was more than good enough. And more importantly than that, I think he was part of another thing that I think dominated the character of this game was Denver. once again, asserting their size advantage.

And he's part of that. Like, he's part of why Denver is so much huger and just more physically dominant in pounding people down there and being able to, again, because the thing about Yolkich and how, oh, he's allegedly this awful defender, when he's down there giving a contest,

like, he makes it difficult for people to score over him. Yes, when you got him playing in space, it sometimes looks like he's playing with church shoes on. And he's slipping and slide and it can't barely keep people in front. I understand that and I respect it. But when he's down there giving a contest, it works. And the same for Michael Porter, Jr., the same for Aaron Gordon. And I think he was part of them asserting their size dominance in this game,

which I think is going to be the defining characteristic ultimately of this series going forward. Was, have you ever played in church shoes before? That sounds like an ACL tear waiting to happen. I have. I have. So one of my aunts is she's in this denomination called Seven Day Adventist. And the summer that my mom bought our house in Queens, I ended up staying like half my school year staying in Brooklyn and living with my aunt, which meant that I would go to church

with her on Saturdays. And their church, they basically did that thing all day long. And how I broke up the monotony. would just be the sneak across the street and go to the park and actually who play 21 get some two on twos going in the church shoes

slipping and sliding man you're giving you're giving buckets while in the church shoes I was still doing my thing I'm not going to say I was you know I was at my best but I could still hold my own but it's tough on a post up

when you're trying to dig in and keep a low center of gravity and the guy can just push you as if you're on ice skates But Waz giveth buckets, you know? Praise B. Well, I think the Yokic Rit protection stuff

is interesting because the thing that caught my eyes, not only his effectiveness doing that in this game, but also it seemed like Jimmy was almost trying to avoid him at times. There were a couple times he caught him on the switch. And it seems like Jimmy was like thinking past first the entire way, almost like not Ben Simmons' territory,

but maybe close to that, where it just seemed like whatever spring Jimmy had, and we've talked about this a time before, just like there wasn't there. And like, he had his best scoring game of these finals. But it just seems like whatever Jimmy effect that he had early on in his postseason just isn't there. And like maybe that's like some of the kickout shooters weren't making shots today. So that part of his game wasn't as effective. He only had four assists. And a lot of it was probably due to miss shots. But like, I don't know, he just seems so regular this finals

and I have to wonder if like the Jimmy that we all expected coming into this series is ever going to really unearth itself. See, I don't know that I agree with that. I thought he came out pretty aggressive especially at the start of this game. Like I do think he was looking shoot first. He was looking

attack first. You took 16 shots in the first half. More than he's taken in the first half of any game in his career. Like he was definitely trying to press a little bit offensively in a way that he's been insisting over the last couple days that like, oh, playoff Jimmy Butler isn't a thing. That's how I know it's a thing.

And then he comes out and shoots all those shots in the first half. But he was aggressive, but was he effective? He made six of those shots. I don't know if he's ever been in his finals, like a just like dominant scoring presence. No. I don't think he is, well, you know, what we saw against Milwaukee, for example, just in terms of the touch on his shots, the conversion rate inside. Those things are different.

I think where this game changed from game two was more about shutting off all of the plays that came off of Jimmy of not not honestly not respecting him quite so much and Michael Pina wrote about this for the ring or two about how like that could be an important adjustment in this game it turned out to be just that and we saw a couple of times where you know Jimmy would hunt Jamal Murray in particular the nuggets would overhelp a little bit too much and they would swing like Max Drews for a three there were a couple instances like that but overall I thought Denver was much more buttoned up and really trusted Jamal to fight in some of the those instances. And he got burned. He got bullied, but I thought he at least put up

enough of a fight where they could live with some of the outcomes. But for me, Jimmy's best moments came when he was guarded by Bruce Brown, when he was guarded by Jamal Murray, when he was guarded by KCP. And it's not going to be hard to find those guys if he's really trying. And he looked very effective attacking those guys, which I thought was a great sign. Some of the shots he missed was, you know, some of his 16, 15 footers off the dribble coming off the pick and roll and the drop coverage, sometimes he's going to make him, sometimes he's going to miss him. He looks super

human when he's making all of those, which he did at certain points in the playoffs this year, but I was very heartened to see what he did against the smaller defenders, but like I said, when MPJ is guarding him, when Aaron Gordon's guarding him, the nuggets feel in power to give absolutely

no help in those situations. And, you know, when Murray can set it up in such a way where it's not just, you know, just an extreme isolation where the other four people on the other side of the paint and he could just isolate on him by himself. Yokic is giving good help in the paint, right? And so I thought this was the best that he looked all series.

I like the looks that he got. I thought he forced Denver to make some tough decisions at times, put them in rotation, generated some good-looking three-point jump shots. But yeah, he doesn't look, because what people got to remember is that in the first round, he was attacking Drew Holiday,

Janice out to the Coupa, and Brooke Lopez. Yep. Fucking insane shit. Like, just attacking these guys at every single moment. Like, it's hard to fathom that when you think of the level of defender on Denver, right? I understand that,

but I think he's still doing his thing if not playing at that particular level. I thought, too, even when he was, when Jimmy Butler was trying to hunt Jamal Murray or trying to hunt Bruce Brown or trying to hunt KCP a little bit. And man, KCP, he's a really high-level defender just does not have the weight class

to hang with Jimmy Butler there. It's too light in the shorts. He's got to do some squats with Jail Lerl hurts. I think so. But Jamal in particular, I thought they did a really good job of like when those switches started to happen and either Jimmy Butler has the ball in the perimeter

and he's starting to post up Jamal Murray or he's fighting for a position they're looking to feed Jimmy Butler against Jamal Murray. Jamal's like doing enough bumping to stall out the clock a little bit, right? To push the post up further out,

to drain the clock, to like just create a little bit more confusion and a little more disarray in terms of the start of those plays. And that didn't always bear out. Like sometimes Jimmy still got basically all the way to the rim or, you know,

sunk on like a short range turnaround anyway. But you do enough of that stuff over the course of the game. Not only are you wearing on a guy like Jimmy Butler physically a little bit, but I think you win some of those possessions as a result. I think you can honestly just like stall out the offense just enough where he's a little more rushed by the end of his move.

So say you guys are Spow and let's say Chris Quinn and you've taken your anger out on a reporter and now you have to think about where you go from here. Like what are you talking about? What are the adjustments are you making? Are you saying, well, we need to work the math advantage and the threes didn't really hit for us this game or is there anything you can do differently that you saw from this one to take into different? four on Friday. I think there's a lot of things you can do differently. I think, you know, knowing Spoe and what he values and what he preaches, and, you know, maybe those things are true, or maybe they're just kind of media constructions, you know, things to talk about in press conferences. But honestly, Bam and a bio had a great rebounding game. Man, every other member of the heat, non-factor on the boards. And this is a team that they need to win the possession battle. If you are not forcing turnovers, you have to be offensive rebounding. And that's where

they've succeeded in some of these games they've won that have been ultimately upsets over stronger, more talented, bigger teams. They get long rebounds. They turn them into threes. They've been an incredible second chance offense. These other guys have to be more of a factor because Bam is doing everything he can. Nicole

Yokic is already scooping up so many rebounds. Bam was at least, like he at least got enough offensive rebounds on one possession to basically force a Nuggets time out. I didn't see that kind of effort on the offensive glass from anyone else. And I know it's a hard balance with doing that and getting back in transition, but that's what you have to do against Denver,

is you have to find ways to do both at once. Yeah, I don't know that, again, I'm sounding like a broken record. They're not going to do anything special to stop Denver's offense. The stuff that they need to care about and be working on is offense, is figuring out how to get more buckets. And I think, honestly, they weren't horrible in their approach this game. I honestly thought they ran their stuff beautiful. and with purpose all game long.

I thought they put Denver in some compromising positions. Ultimately, they're just going to have to adjustment play better. That's just what it's going to have to be. And I think they have it in them. Again, I think Jimmy has he's quote-unquote found something, attacking the little guys in isolation and making that more part of what he's doing. But I think there's things that Denver can be doing to mitigate that.

I wonder if they will. Like, for example, I think there's a little bit too much deference being paid to every single person on these screens. If Jimmy Butler gets a screen, Aaron Gordon, go under that shit. I'm sorry, if Jimmy Butler wants to pull up from three-point land, that is a win on every single possession that Jimmy is doing. And we know he doesn't want to do that. Same with Max Struz. He's a good player. When he's coming off of a bam screen off the dribble, if he wants to get his kairoo,

and Steph Curry on pull up from three-point range, 26 feet. So be it. Do not go over, fight over that screen when Max Truce is threatening to pop it off the dribble. Gabe Vincent, you know, of course, we're going to give him some respect. Duncan Robinson, he's going to get his respect. But, like, I think there's been a little bit of an overreaction on Denver's part about knowing personnel. And I think that becomes the difference in defenses, right?

I think Denver is doing a good enough job of executing a sort of game plan and not as good as recognizing personnel and when to tweak what said game plan is. They're taking one approach to every single thing because, let's face it, they're an offense-focused team. They're doing their best on defense. I think that's some of the things that they could be tightening up. But at the same time, Justin, like, do you think Denver's going to get worse at solving the zone? I find that hard to believe going forward. Like their offense is only going to have more answers to the problems Miami is presenting. The heat have to get buckets.

Yeah, I mean, on the one hand, I agree with you. The more that they're seeing some of the tricks that Miami's throwing out them, they're not necessarily tricks, but some of the things that spell will throw out there out of nowhere, I think they will be more prepared for, on the other hand, it does require them to execute. And back to the Michael Porter Jr. question, I mean, I do wonder if the defensive just acumen in this game, was a trade-off of playing both brown bros more as opposed to porter and so you wonder there but to the overall point i like minus 25 on the boards in comparison to denver minus 26 in the paint in comparison to denver to me the story of this game is just that denver didn't really make adjustments

they just only reasserted itself as the bigger batter favorite in this series yeah we don't we don't talk about the Denver Nuggets as being a bruising physical team, but Nicola Yokic is a bruising physical player inside. He is just so much more of an interior threat than Bam will ever be in this series. He's not going to, they're not in comparable levels in terms of the threat they present inside. And you see that not only in the touch shots we were talking about, but just like straight up, low post, drop step, hook shot. Very basic stuff that he's executing against the best defenders

in the world and one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that they can just manufacture that kind of offense on a really regular basis that Jamal Murray can get all the way to the cup. And Jamal's a guy who historically will settle for pull-ups, will settle for mid-rangers. But he's getting to the rim too, right? They are living in the paint. And some of that is the opportunity that the way the heater guarding affords you, right? The way that they're in particular, like, hugging up against these shooters.

Some of these zones are obviously going to be a little bit soft in the middle if you know how to cut and you know how to move. but really it's just a matter of the fact that the best players on both teams like Jimmy is more of a pull-up mid-range shooter at this point Bam's primary offense in the series has been either like shore some offensive rebounding stuff but also short short mid-range jumpers as well Yokic is the only guy who's really like eating at the rim

and so if they're going to be the more physical team and like the better just executing offensive team it's just going to be really hard for the heat to keep up with that what did you guys think about Reggie Jackson's single minute in this game I appreciated it What happened? I think he wanted to sneak I think someone was in foul trouble

from Murray Yeah or maybe it was Casey P got his third foul I think he was in foul trouble I thought they just wanted like a ball handler To keep the pick and roll stuff going But it was very short lived Unfortunately for Reggie

Well he got hunted a little bit Pretty quickly too by Jimmy He's gonna be another target If he's ever out there But interesting on the heat side too Haywood Highsmith had such a big impact on game one or at least like was relevant in game one

now just totally out of the rotation just like not playing for the heat at all. They have, Spohas completely trimmed him from the mix. Yeah, I mean, he played garbage time in this game and he only got two minutes. So take this with massive like beach level grains of salt.

Every time he's in the game, it seems like he has an effect on it, right? Like his energy definitely is palpable. And I'm like, why isn't he constantly getting lost in the shuffler? I mean, maybe after this one loves minutes, get even fewer than the 16 he got in this game

so maybe we'll see him in the next one but I don't know anything else Rob maybe from live on the scene was the dose Minuto's call as booming and beautiful as you remembered

you know I didn't even clock it did it happen maybe maybe in a loss maybe in a loss like this they just skip it I don't even know um was everyone wearing white unpressed row

did you did you break out any of your fanciest cabana wear You know, I don't roll like that. I can't pull off that look. This is why we need to send Wosmore. Jalen and Screaming, they both had white jackets. They were feeling very festive. So salute to them for doing that on the pregame and halftime show sets.

But, yeah, I'm not surprised that Media Row wasn't full of white linens, buttoned all the way down to the fourth button. Four buttons open. That's how you got to do it, Rob. White linen, four buttons open. Look, I will say, practice availability, which is generally a little more casual media-wise, and then just seeing some media members out and about on the town,

I'm here speaking to all of you, my media brethren, you got to stop wearing these hats. You got to stop. You got to leave the hats at home. I can't do it. I know you're in Miami. I know you're trying to be festive. I know you're trying to enjoy a little beach time, but you got to stop.

Wait, what kind of hats? Yeah, like a cabana hat. Oh, that's brutal. It's tough. We got to stop. Guys, come on. industry policy it's now against the NBA dress code

please stop alright why don't we take a break when we come back we'll sort through this Chris Paul whatever the fuck it is all right so Chris Paul might be waived

will be waived might leave the sons might come back on a different contract might not actually leave the contract he's on it's very hard to say but the basic like timeline of events here on Wednesday afternoon was Chris Haynes first reports that Paul will be waived. Everyone gets into a tizzy. It was a lot of fun. And then the follow-up reports come to

clean it up. And it sounds like based on the reporting from both Shams and Wojj that there was a meeting that happened in which they signaled to Paul that they might be exploring options. It's hard to say how definitive they were about moving on from Paul, but it seems like we're headed probably for a breakup. The way I interpreted it was, was that I wonder if Chris Paul's side of thing is that he wants to be waived and get this over with as soon as possible so he could find his next team, whereas the sons realized that they can't just replace Paul, especially if they wave him and do not stretch his contract. And they certainly would struggle to even get a player close to Paul's like caliber, even if they had the non-taxpayer mid-level exception

available to them. And so they want to actually find a new home for them via maybe a trade. And so that's where we net out here, where we have contrasting stories about something going on. Does that like check out to you? No. What checks out to me is we have another Gordon Hayward situation. If you'll remember when my man, Chris Haynes, correctly,

and firstly, called Gordon Hayward to the Boston Celtics, right? If you guys will also remember, I think it was Woj, said, oh, no, it hasn't been

decided yet, blah, blah, blah, this and this and that. Oh, Hayward is not done deal. Chris Haynes is confirming like, guys, it's a done deal. He's going to the Celtics. Of course, he eventually signs, Haynes added,

and then what do we hear from our newsbreaking gods? He was working on his Players Tribune article. It was stuck in edits, while it's like it needed to go through a couple of drafts. Right? Robb knows that all too well. This is that all over again.

Chris Haynes comes out and says they're waving the guy. Then all of this, quote unquote, cleanup, the mop and the brooms come out, of course, on the part of the Sun's organization and James Jones maybe from Shams and Wodge. And they do the cleanup crew. No, he's not going to be waved. Maybe there's a trade and maybe there's a that. Like, guys, the Sun's season ended how long ago? We think the Suns haven't had conversations of what the trade market for Chris Paul is, who might be interested, who they can move?

Last but not least, Chris Haynes talked to Chris Paul directly. Chris Paul told him he's getting waived. You think Chris Paul was like up in the air and like he just didn't understand. He might have got confused when management said, no, we might bring you back and it might be this. No, he's getting waived, y'all. That's it. It's the newsbreaker stupid shell game Ponzi scheme bullshit all over again. He's getting waived, y'all.

He's done. He's out of there. Maybe they'll stretch the $15 million that he's old, which would be the smart thing to do. Maybe they just said, oh, we're just idiots and we'll just eat the whole 15 right now. I don't know. But the man is getting waived. That's what's happening, okay? Chris Haynes talked to Chris Paul about it.

That's what happened. But you think he is done as a son? You don't think there's any chance they resign him after waving him? it's such a silly thing to just walk away from because like how are you replacing him? That's the thing is yes, yes, there's some financial things

you open up by waiving him because of the non-guarantee in his contract. And you get to bring him back for less than $30 million. Right. And the only reason, because I hear you on the overall newsbreaking process here, well,

gives me some pauses to saying, like Chris Paul is done as a son is some reporting that Brian Winhorst casually dropped the other day, kind of suggesting that this could be a possibility that, oh, you know, the sun's at least exploring the option of this kind of wave and resign, you know, kind of gesturing and suggesting this idea before all this newsbreaker stuff started going down. And so that seat was already in my head. And as I'm reading the reports and digesting everything today, I couldn't shake that thought. And it's like, it's one of those things

that makes a lot of sense for Phoenix. The question is, does it make sense for Chris Paul? And is it what he wants, ultimately. Does he want to walk back into a role that he did not quite figure out over the course of this last playoff run in the end of the regular season, playing next to Acadian book? Like, never quite got comfortable with it. Does he want another crack at that? Or does he want to crack at something else?

Because there's a lot of playoff teams, a lot of contenders even, that could really use a Chris Paul in the mix, even with all of his limitations and injury considerations and where he is age-wise right now. So let me lay out like the possibilities here. So if they just straight wave him, they're on the hook for $15.8 million. If they had kept him past June 28th, they would have owed him the whole $30.8 million. Just waving him outright puts them in the mix for the taxpayer mid-level exception, which is $5 million.

If they wave and stretch him, they open up the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. That's $12.2 million. Unfortunately, if they stretch him, they cannot resign him. if they straight wave him and he clears waivers, they can resign it. So those are the options. I will say there is some risk in just straight waving Chris Paul because you never know if like the Spurs,

for instance, are like, I'll take Paul and I will deal with this. Or some team with cap space that just wants control of the Chris Paul trade market. And then there's another factor of this is after you wave him, he's free to do whatever he wants. And like the Carlos Boozer situation is definitely still in my back of my mind.

And so I can't imagine it's not in some of these other guys actually in the field here. Yeah, I would be shocked if someone claims his contract off waivers. I would not be shocked if Chris Paul becomes a free agent. It's just like, you know what, the Milwaukee Bucks sound pretty good right now, or the LA Clippers sound pretty good right now, or any number of teams where he could make sense. It's kind of like a plug-and-play option, a point guard. Just seeing how Chris Paul has navigated his career to this point, I don't necessarily think he would go into a waiving situation with the Sons

with the commitment to return. I think it would be, we can talk about it. You know, like if you want to waive me, we can discuss potentially coming back, but I'm going to weigh my options. I'm going to see what's out there.

I'm going to compare and contrast to see if anyone can give me a better offer than the idea of coming back to Phoenix. That's kind of what I would expect if he is ultimately waived. I would expect him if he's waived to go find something better to do then be back in Phoenix with their no depth having you know situation over there God only knows where he stands

with the DeAndre Aiton's situation who knows if he thinks that's a great place or fit for him to ultimately play out the stretch of his career you know you got I don't he's obviously not a minimum player no at this point in his career so I know he's not going to be like

oh I'll go take the minimum the ring chase in Philly or ring chase in Milwaukee or some other places you guys mentioned. But I don't know. You guys don't think he'll do that? Like you don't think he'll just like try to latch on to a Lakers or clippers? I mean, the minimum at his age is like, I guess he's making 50. It would be 15 million on top of the minimum. So it wouldn't like really be the minimum.

But yeah, maybe. I guess you could talk me into that. But he's been pretty savvy in the past about picking his spots. I thought going to Phoenix, nobody saw that coming. And that was really savvy. And they ultimately saw some incredible success when you consider what was going on over there before he got there. Like, that thing got turned around pretty dramatically when he signed on. So I could see him sitting with his team and coming up with something smart,

something that's probably unexpected by us right now that puts him in the person. position to play some hoop and play for a team that's, you know, that's actually good. I think ultimately what convinces me that he could be a minimum signie or a budget signy or like a mid-level or kind of however once he wants to slot in, I mean, Chris Paul's made some money, you know, this is a guy who's like over 300 million in total career earnings just from his contracts alone. So, you know, he's not to say he wouldn't want more, not to say he shouldn't want more. But I think he's a guy who is in a position who if if what matters to him is the idea of like finding the right basketball fit, he could make that happen. And what do we say about

Chris Paul all the time? He's done everything except for win in the finals. It's the point where he was doing interviews this week where we were saying that his daughter is literally bullied by people telling her why hasn't your dad won a title? Like the timing of this is God bless America. was that you was that you just in bullying Chris Paul's daughter I know like how you feel about players family members in general and you feel like you should take it upon yourself

to accost them you will never I just think you should stop to me okay there's no actual on paper evidence that this was me okay just want to make that clear like I'm just imagining you like

Lydia tar showing up and just like yelling and accosting young children at various schools around the area Well, not that far away from now. I'll definitely tell you that. I almost yelled at someone, and it caused someone at the reservoir today who almost ran into me.

But that's a whole other story. Watch out. Agro-northeastern bro, varrier is the key to all of this, guys. I was moving out of the way, and the guy was not moving himself. So it's a two-way street, buddy. Once the hat turns backwards, look out.

You know, steer clear of that guy. So as I see it, I think there's three options. We kind of danced around here. The first one is playing for a minimum, trying to be the final piece of a lot of teams that are just right there. And like how many teams did we talk about this postseason that just needed like a nailed ball handler, just to clean things up on the margins, the Celtic, God forbid if they could get someone like Paul there.

I don't think that's going to happen. But I think you're thinking about teams like we talked about, the Lakers, the Clippers, the Bucs, a team I would have loved to see Chris Paul go to before he ended up with the Sons. I thought they really needed him at that time. They ended up winning a title. So wasn't that big of a deal. They still could use him. The Sixers, if Hardin leaves.

Like, among these options was, like, let's say you're Paul, like, which one are you gravitating toward? I mean, if I'm doing this minimum or mid-level exception kind of thing, I'm probably, yeah, I'm probably sixers of bucks. Because there's a need for what I do. and I'm going to be good next year. I think the Sixers will still be pretty damn good, even if Hardin leaves, they'll be really good.

I think the Bucks certainly are going to be really good and really pissed off next year. So that's something to definitely watch. I don't know how he feels about brots and beer, but, you know, basketball-wise, that seemed, oh, my God, I forgot. Chris Paul went vegan. That's why he's playing.

until age 38. But no, but seriously, miracles of modern science aside, I would love, love, love to see him in Milwaukee, honestly. Here's the thing. I think he ultimately, with enough time to figure it out,

would look better playing alongside wings like Booker and Durant, or if you want to transpose that into Paul George and Kauai, whatever that looks like. But the situations I would be most excited to see him in are like the ones you laid out was,

where it's elite big men. I want to see him with Janus. I want to see him with Embed. I want to see him, you know, like, it's so frustrating sometimes watching teams with elite bigs, just try to like clear enough space to post them up. And a guy like Joelle cleans a lot of that up because he can operate around the free throw line.

But man, if you just have a good organizer for your office who can also actually throw an entry pass, God forbid, I honestly think that helps to raise a team like the Sixers floor a little bit. You know, he's not a one-to-one substitute for James Harden. But if Hardin wore, to leave, I think you could do a lot worse than plugging Chris Paul into that slot. Well, speaking of Biggs who could just use an entry pass, what about our friend Anthony Davis, who is in desperate need of just one more guard in order to just not do dumb things

next to LeBron James? I mean, that seems to be the leader in the clubhouse just based on assumption and his relationship with LeBron. And on the one hand, like, it's probably the last thing the Lakers need, another high maintenance guy who is going to play maybe at, at most like 40 to 50 games in the regular season. On the other hand, I think it would complete what is slowly becoming a very good starting unit if you're assuming that like Rui and Reeve slot into those other spots. I was reminded the other day of the,

there was a Clippers season that ended in the playoffs against the Blazers. I'm blanking on the exact year. In which everyone was healthy to start the series and by the end of it, Blake Griffin and Chris Paul and basically like every starter for that team was injured. I have that vision. for the Lakers where it's like the overlapping

injury risk of Chris Paul and LeBron James and Anthony Davis. That's a lot. That's a lot to hang on. That's a lot to hang on offense. This is too much. What about Paul Kauai and Paul George? Yeah. Point taken. Point taken. This is why I'm trying to get into Milwaukee, you know? That Clipper's situation. I will say the full circle of him coming back to the clippers

would warm the heart there. And I imagine Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan are looking for work and would probably take like an assistant coaching job if need be, although I don't know if someone would end up being bunched by. Is Chris Paul ultimately going to go into the Hall of Fame as a clipper? Yeah.

Yeah. I think so. Well, what is it determined by what like statistics, like the most statistics you put up or what you want to go in? I think when you think of Chris Paul, in your mind's eyes, is he wearing a Clippers jersey? I think he would want to go in as a hornet, but I think that most people remember him as a clipper. As a clip. And as he talked about in the interview you were alluding to, Justin, has a complicated relationship with the city of New Orleans where I don't know that they want him to go in as a hornet per se.

He still gets booed. He still gets booed there. He did force the trade. That's fair. Well, speaking of, I mean, if not only is there the full circle clippers option, there's the fulfilling the photoshops that have been long gestating of him finally becoming a Laker after. after all these years. So there's, you know,

storylines of plenty as far as Chris Ball goes, now and now and always. Rest and peace, David Stern. I thought you were going to bring up the Pelicans as an option because I think there are a lot of like

random ones that could work like the heat, the Mavericks, for instance, I guess the Celtics you would throw them in there. Probably unlikely, but definitely in the mix of like, oh, join a contender,

maybe for more than the menom, et cetera. But I do think one of the more intriguing options is doing what he did in Oklahoma City. and to a certain extent with Phoenix as well and becoming the caretaker, adult in the room that is rearing, fostering a young team that really needs him.

Honestly, I think it's like when Paul has been at his best over the past five or so years. And I do wonder if he would have that effect on another team. And I do think like the Pelicans, they have CJ in a crowded back court, so on the one hand, it doesn't make sense.

But on the other hand, the Pelicans were thinking long and hard about getting into the Kyle Lowry mix, specifically because of the effect that Chris Paul had on the Sons and the Thunder. And I wonder if this is a way to not only have the full circle, nice story, but have that guy in the organization

to professionalize a crew that like, I don't know if you checked out what's going on with Zion lately, but it seems like he could use like another shoulder. Some guidance and mentorship. Yeah. And it's not exactly a group of ball whizzing, you know, this isn't exactly the 2014 spurs over there, right? I think a lot of what Paul brings to the table

as far as like table setting and playmaking is sorely missed over there. C.J. McCollum, God bless him. That man is not a passer. You know, same. And, you know, B.I. has gotten better over the years, but that's not really his strong suit either. So I think there's definitely a need for the skill set

that Paul brings to the table. I wonder what he's got left on defense, if that'll matter on a team like that. You know, I wonder. I personally against selfishly, I want to see him play in the playoffs with the highest stakes. I want to see him on, you know, a contender for sure. Although at moments before all the injuries, we were calling the Pelicans a contender quite foolishly. Quite foolishly, it turned out. But the thing about Zion, I think he could probably use some Chris Paul-style tough love.

I don't know that he would be receptive to it. That's true. This is kind of the conundrum with Zion. Is like, will he take the kind of coaching and help and instruction that ultimately he needs? And what is it about like the superstar industrial complex that dissuades teams from applying that kind of pressure? I really don't see it for that reason. He is, look, man, say what you want about Chris Paul, but everybody's on the same page that he's the consummate professional. like this guy's professionalism is on.

He's employee of the month every freaking month, right? That's just the kind of guy that he's been since he's gotten to the league. Zion and professionalism. He definitely test his fastidiousness and his meticulous planning. It's tough. Yeah, I don't know.

It's getting to the point where I'm like, if I'm drafting people, I don't know if I want anybody from South Carolina at this point, man. Lord have mercy, we might have to ban South Carolina as a state from the NBA. It's just ridiculous. I thought you were going to stay from the union, just like bounce them straight out of the country. Well, they want to do that on their own anyway. Let's see how the primaries go.

Can I tell you my favorite dark horse option on the board? Yeah, please. So Paul goes to California, but not the team that you're thinking. And not the other team that you're thinking. and not the other team that you're thinking. I'm talking about the Sacramento Kings. I don't know if the Chris Paul Deer and Fox backcourt would survive in part because I don't know if Fox is the type of bulletproof shooter you would need

out of a two-guard position. But at the very least, there's something going on there. And I do wonder if Paul adds his professionalism and takes that team from like the spunky young upstart that push. the Warriors to like a legitimate like perennial conference championship sort of team like contender. I wonder how he would work doing that handoff game stuff with a homeless man's Yokic. I don't know. I don't know if Chris Paul's that kind of guy. Is he a dribble handoff, get downhill type of dude at this point in his career doesn't really feel that way because he's not really much of a threat

at the cup at all anymore. So you wonder, but maybe, you know, he uses those to get into his mid-rangers. I don't know. I have a hard time believing Chris Paul doesn't make any team that he's on better. And so I think they would be better just for having him. But fit-wise, you wonder between what, you know, Fox. Because like what Fox and Sub-Bonness is doing is a mirrored sort of version of Yokich and Murray. And Yolkich and Murray do do the lion's show.

share the ball handling. Like, that's what they do. Everybody else sort of works around those two handling a bulk of what's happening on offense that way. And obviously, Deerrin Fox is so much better on the ball than he is off of it. I wonder about the fit. But Chris Paul is a freaking basketball savant. He can figure out how to make himself useful in any situation, in my opinion.

It's like attaching weights to a speed bike. You could just see the pace statistics. go from like top of the league to like 24th or whatever it's going to end up being. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? We'll be back to recap Friday night's game over the weekend and look ahead to the next games on the docket. But thank you to Isaiah Blakely for bringing the Gen Z voice back to the podcast on production.

Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back this weekend. We'll see you.