The Ringer NBA Show - The Kawhi Decision Will Change Everything for an Already Changed NBA | The Mismatch

Episode Date: July 2, 2019

Kawhi Leonard seems destined to wind up with the Los Angeles Lakers, but whatever he decides to do will drastically shift the NBA landscape (0:36). The top Eastern Conference contenders reload for another run (16:59) while a handful of teams make some questionable signings (42:44). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. To get you through the holiday week, check out The Ringer.com for our July streaming recommendations, analysis on the U.S. women's national team during the World Cup, and takeaways from an exciting start to NBA-free agency. Also, we'll be sticking to our regular podcast schedule, so make sure to tune in to your favorite shows throughout the week as usual. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show.

I'm Chris Vernon, joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com, is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'K. Kevin O Candyland, aka Kevin opinionated. Kevin. Bruno, what's going on, man? Free agency.

That is what is going on. And let's get this out of the way. We are recording this on Tuesday morning. There is a ton of smoke regarding Kauai Leonard possibly signing up with the Los Angeles Lakers. If we are to believe that Las Vegas typically has a beat on what is going to take place, they have lowered the odds for the Los Angeles Lakers. There are a lot of reports out there saying that they have met with Kauai.

And there's just a lot of people saying that they think. And the other thing is players coming out via Twitter or other avenues with the inference that that is where he is going to go. Now, I suppose if Maasai does get the last meeting with Kauai, then he's got a chance, right? but it certainly sounds like, you know, the guy's mind may be made up before he even has that last meeting with Toronto. I don't know. I didn't see it going this way

if this is the way it does infect Go, Kev. What do you think? I don't know, man. Like, the Kauai Leonard thing is a total mystery here. My gut tells me it'll be one of the LA teams, but who really knows with him? To me, it's like his choice. and I wrote about this this week,

like his choice will determine how we perceive the entire league going into the season. Because right now, Chris, as it stands, there are like 10 to 15 teams you can make a case for that have an actual chance

to win a championship, whether it's with their roster right now or whether they make one more move to put them in that serious conversation for a championship. But if Kauai goes to the Lakers, we're going to have another super team, like the Healds,

like the Hampton's Five Warriors, where they are the clear and definitive favorite and other fan bases feel like there's just no shot. But if he goes to the Clippers, they'll be a favorite or the favorite, but not so, to such an extent that it'll be overwhelming over other teams.

And if he saves with Toronto, it took four bounces to get by Philadelphia last year. Luck might not be on their side next year. And so Kauai's choice is going to just change everything of what we're feeling right now in this moment. and that's a league that is filled with more parody than I can remember in a long, long time. There is nobody outside of Lakers fans that wants that to be his choice. Nobody.

Every other NBA fan, you know, you just laid out what the differences are. Nobody wants him to go there. It's just stupid. You know what I mean? And I think we've always fancied. We don't really know this guy. We know less about Kauai than any of other superstar. And yet it's always, you've always got the impression that he wants to be the,

the best player in the NBA, and he wants to be the giant slayer, you know, and he has been. He has been twice. He has been twice. And I love that, too. You know, how do you distinguish yourself? I think there is a lesson in, you know, how Kevin Durant, I was reading Zach Lowe's article this morning about, you know, how one at one person, I can't remember who it was, was quoted in there saying he thought that winning the championship would, you know, solve everything. And then he won it and he still, you know, kind of felt empty after winning it because it's like, well, who care?

You know what I mean? Who cares that you won the championship? You signed up with a 73 win team or whatever. Happiness has to come from within. Yeah, I'm aware of that. And maybe, listen, there's always that factor of being at home, you know, and maybe the guy just wants to go home. But obviously, if he goes home, you hope he goes to the Clippers and not the Lakers because, You know, we've seen guys come together, but nothing like that.

Nothing like having LeBron Davis and Kauai all on the same team. That's an outrage. Maybe, but Kevin Durand joining a 73-win team is pretty, pretty strong too. And that Golden State roster also had stronger depth. You know, with Igwadala and Sean Livingston, closer to the primes of their careers. I'm not sure if it would be quite that Warriors team. Katie joined a 73-1 team. But yeah, it'd be pretty close because if you're at least looking at the guys on paper,

I mean, I know you can argue the semantics here, but it's three like top eight guys or so. Right? I mean, I don't think that's, you would argue that's strong, like three top eight guys. There's nobody that has a list that would not have those three in the top eight. Nobody. I mean, there's some. I mean, there's a sum out there. But let's put it in a way.

Maniacs. Maniacs. All right. Forgive me. I'm sorry to all the maniacs out there that wouldn't have those three guys in their top eight players in the league. You know, if the Lakers do get Kauai Leonard, though, it'll be fascinating to see how they fill out the rest of their roster with just a bunch of cheap guys that are scraps left on the market. Because there's not a lot of left, not a lot left out there. Chris, so much has happened already, not just of the top guys signing, but of those lower level players who are guys getting exception deals. there's not much out there for him. Well, and as we know,

you then are, in fairness, let me play the devil's advocate on them having Kauai Leonard, right? It's not a great one, but you are very, very dependent upon the health because your depth is going to be absolute crap. And we have seen,

though it did not get them until, well, you know, years down the road, it got the Warriors, right? They lost one of the players and it kept

them from winning a championship. And those are three guys that are not the model of health between those three. And if you lose one of them, so I don't know, I think there is a reasonable argument. If you can get Coah Leonard, you get Coah Leonard. I get Coah Leonard. I get it. But I also think there might be a reasonable argument that you've got LeBron James and you've got Anthony Davis. And we've seen a lot of duos in the past having two superstars in your starting lineup and then filling it. out with role players around them, be very, very successful, you know? And obviously, I think

these three can mix together because they're so great. But, you know, if you've got LeBron and you've got A.D., you could have taken that money and you could have gotten, I mean, you could have had a real roster around them. You, that is the trick to having the three guys is you are totally dependent on the three guys staying healthy because with the rest of what you have, your point is just not going to be good enough against the best teams when it comes Western Conference Finals time and when it comes, right? Like when you've got teams like Denver bringing Malik Beasley off the bench, right? He's just so much better than anybody you're going to have coming off your bench,

especially if you've got guys injured. There are some solid guys. That's the risk. Yeah. That is the risk. It's certainly the risk one. Like now your options are Vince Carter, Jared Dudley, Joaquin Noah, Ian Clark. you know, Noah Vaughnlay, guys like that, Javelle McGee, bringing him back,

J.R. Smith, if he gets bought out, Jeff Green. It's like these are uninspiring names, but they're not horrific necessarily. You can still build a good enough bench considering just how outrageously strong your starters are. But still, it is a monumental risk for them to do what they're doing, but it's a necessary risk and it's a risk that's quite admirable and one that they should do. because it's Co. Why Leonard we're talking about here. Of course. He might be the best player in the world right now, and that's what makes it. So I think that he is so good that there are a myriad of teams he could go to.

Like, obviously, if he goes back to Toronto, they have to be one of the favorites. I think if he goes to the Clippers, they would be right there amongst the favorites. Certainly in the Western Conference. The Clippers already have their depth. The Clippers are already a strong overall team. And so you look at it and you go, we are so close. to having just an unbelievable who knows league. We're so close to that.

And so I would be, I would be mega disappointed if he chose the Lakers. I'm sorry to Laker fans out there, but it sucks for everybody except for you. You know, it's, I mean, it sort of does.

It's like, so if Kauai goes to the Lakers, the league, to me, is still going to be super, super enjoyable. Like, it'll be fun to root against the Lakers.

It'll be rude to see that. It'll be fun to see that greatness together on the court, unlike we've ever seen before. But in terms of like championship aspirations, it would be a little bit deflating for fans of teams like the Nuggets or fans of the Blazers. These teams that right now, today, as I'm recording at 8.30 a.m. Pacific, it feels like they have a shot of the championship. All that changes if he goes to the Lakers. If he goes to the Clippers would be favorites, but they're not, they're not obscene favorites. The Rappers would not be obscene favorites either in the East.

Kev, you could take LeBron off that team. and they would still be championship quality. If you had Kauai and Anthony Davis. That's a good point. I mean, if you had a team that just had Kauai and Anthony Davis on the same team, you'd be like, damn, who's beating them? Yeah, that's a good point. And Anthony Davis on the same thing.

So the fact that LeBron isn't even necessarily essential to make them great, that's preposterous. Proposterous. I don't like it. I hope he doesn't. You know, it's unusual. It feels like Toronto is sort of. faded from at least the conversation here.

Like, they're still going to get the last meeting. They still have a shot of keeping him. But we haven't talked a heck of a lot about Toronto. We haven't, I mean, we, the collective, we, the NBA community. That's true. Where do they go if he doesn't go back there? What do they do? What's Maasai's next move?

Well, I mean, so there's so much still in the air. There's not a lot of teams that have cap space left. But if, if it seems like Danny Green's waiting, he's like the second best free agent left behind Kauai Leonard. If Danny Green is waiting on Kauai, that could mean Danny Green is either going to go to Dallas, who has cap space, or if Kauai goes to the Lakers, he could go into the Klippers' cap space or the Maverick's cap space. Or for Danny Green, if Kauai goes to the clippers, the clippers could always flip Gallinari to create cap space for Kauai Lederd. and Gallinari would fit in just about perfectly into Dallas's remaining cap space because Dallas pulled out of that trade with Gorin Drogrich and Kelly Olenik,

whatever that package was from the Miami Heat, and they had to figure things out in that trade for Jimmy Butler and Josh Richardson. So Dallas could be waiting as well to see what happens with Kauai, because if they were to get Gallonari, that would be a much, much better haul and a more intriguing fit next to their current core there with Donchich and Porzingis. So I wonder, like, for Danny Green, how much of a factor... Well, we do know Kauai's decision is a factor for him,

but this has a domino effect on other teams as well that still have some cap space. And Danny Green is an important cog to all this. Chris, you know, I was watching The Bachelorette last night, and I was thinking to myself, you know, I was kind of just, you know, staring into space, wondering, what if there's a mystery team?

What if there are a mystery team for Kawhi Leonard? Who would it be? No, what do you mean? Come on. Is anything in the NBA ever as it seems? Yes. Sometimes, well, not all the time. Who would have expected DeAngelo Russell to be signed and traded to the Warriors at the

beginning of the summer? Who could have expected that, Chris? Wait, so you are acting as if there are not a finite amount of teams that Kauai Leonard would be interested in at this point? I mean, is that what you're really trying to sell me on? I know, I'm just saying, like, what if there were a mystery team? That's it. That's all.

What if there are a mystery team? Oh, I hate to, I think you were, I think you were staring off into space after taking a couple of hits. I was not. What if there's a mystery team? There's not a mystery team, Kevin. No. Go back to Earth. Because I was just thinking of all the weird things that were happening this summer.

and I was like, why wouldn't, why wouldn't Golden State at least place a call to Kauai Leder be like, hey man, like, give us, what do you mean what? For the last two years, there's been reporting from everybody in the Warriors beat that they were going to go hard after Anthony Davis. Well, they didn't get AD.

There was reporting before they got KD when it seemed so unrealistic that they were going to go after Kevin Durant. They did get KD. So it's right now, if you're going to state, this DeAngel Russell trade, the reporting around it, has been so unusual, so weird, where you have Mark Stein saying that they will trade Russell at some point in the near future. You have the athletic reporting that the wolves thought all

the way that it was yes, yes, yes, yes, then suddenly they don't even really get a no. It just happens that he goes to Golden State. It's just weird, man. All the reporting around the Russell part and the fact Golden State has two times, they have successfully got KD, and then they wanted to get AD, and they didn't, why wouldn't they at least go for Kauai Leonard here? And it is financially possible to do a quadruple or a triple sign and trade or five-way sign-and-trade in order to get Kauilandard. And like, it is the most improbable possibility ever.

But I was just thinking last night, like, what if there were a mystery team? That's it. Because the reporting around the Russell part with the Warriors has been so odd, that's why. Well, Kawhi does have this choice, though. Yeah, exactly. He does have that choice. He has the choice. Exactly.

And so then you would be counting on Kawhi having a mystery team out there. Not just a team that would want to go after him. It's different a team wanting to go after him than a guy saying, this is where I want to be, or this is the choice I am making. And it appears, I don't know, maybe we don't know his choices. All right. It's just fun to think about. That's all. That's all.

It's just fun. think about Kauai on the Warriors. I mean, for God sakes, I just got done bitching about I didn't want him on the Lakers. Now we're going to get rid of Durant and put him on the Warriors. Come on. I know. I know.

Could you at least have done like a mystery team and it's the bucks or something? Or the Grizzlies. A mystery team and it's the, I don't know, whoever. The reporting around the Daniel Russell part of the Warriors is just weird. Like, why would he go there when, you know, Mark Stein, a very respected reporter and others are like, yeah, they're going to, they want it, they're going to trade them. Like, why would he go there?

I don't understand. It's just very weird. That's all. That's all. Well, I don't think it was as much about going there as it was signing that contract, right? Yeah, the wolves would have given them that contracts. They were, they were in position to create the cap space in order to land the Angela Russell. You didn't want to go to Minnesota.

Yeah, but it was, it was yes, yes, yes, yes, all the way until suddenly it wasn't. It's just so odd, that's all It's just so weird That like I am just suspicious of that That's it Okay, that's all I'm just suspicious Why would you go to the Warriors

A team like his future there Is no guarantee where they can trade him in six months It's just weird Hmm All right, I'll at least think about it It's something that I would have to think I don't know what their move is I don't think anybody particularly believes

that DeAngelo Russell is there for the long haul in Golden State. That being said, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to make of that. Let me get to the Eastern Conference. And while we were talking about how, you know, obviously so much rides on the Kauai decision, but these other teams that were up top in the Eastern Conference, let me just run through the ones that were right there last year.

and so you would suspect would be able to run it back and be an extremely good team up this year. Milwaukee. They obviously threw all the money at Middleton. They lost Brogden in the process, made a couple minor moves here and there, adding the other Lopez brother, which was interesting.

Brought back George Hill, what do you make of what Milwaukee has done? And that's a team that won 60 games was an Eastern Conference representative or a finals representative last year. It's nice that they got the guys back that they did, Middleton, Lopez Hill, but losing Brogton is something

that should not be overlooked. Malcolm Brogton was arguably their second best player at times throughout the full season. Definitely at times throughout the playoffs. He is one of their best shooters, if not their best shooter on the team. He is one of their best,

most versatile defenders, a great locker room guy, a good passer. Brogden is Look, your championship hopes don't necessarily lean on him if you're Milwaukee when you have Iana Santa da Cumpo, the MVP. However, the MVP does need a strong supporting cast and Brogden was pivotal to their success

on both ends of the court. Yeah, I like to add in West Matthews yesterday. I liked that on a minor deal. For sure. It's not the end of the world because, you know, West Matthews is solid enough still. You know, it can work. Here's it.

Here's the thing. Let me ask you this. And maybe I'm out of bounds here. But there's been so much reporting, and I heard Woj say over and over that nobody had more leverage than Chris Middleton, that because of Janus's contract coming up, that they had to bring back Chris Middleton. And that was the price of doing business. It was a price of doing business.

Yes, because that's what Middleton could command, but also because they had to show Janus that they're committed to winning and so they signed him up for that deal. Do you think, now with that being said, that that would not have been the case that if I would rather pay, I mean, they're paying them what, like it's not quite a hundred million dollars, but I look at the Brogden deal and I say, damn, man, I'd much rather give Brogden his deal than Middleton his deal, but that would have been strong enough to signal to Janus. Oh, they're not committed to winning right now and building a real winner because they didn't pay Chris Middleton a billion dollars? I don't know.

I mean, I feel like I'd rather have Brogden on his deal than Middleton on the deal he got. I mean, Middleton's a better shot creator. I get it. Guy who can create his own shot. So with Middleton, it's like you had to pay him. The problem is, is like, what other choices did you have if you're Milwaukee? You didn't have a choice but to pay him. So from Milwaukee, this is it.

Like this is your core. This is what you're rolling with for the next two years with Yanis before he hits free agency. And like there is with every single other star player, there's going to be tons of rumors and noise about where he'll go. And like today, if you're asking me where Janus will sign in 2020 on in 2021, I would bet on the bucks because they are a championship contender. And he loves that city. And Janus, to me, strikes me as somebody who's going to give it a long-term chance with the bucks with what they have. However, like, this is it, man. Like, this is what you got moving forward,

unless they're able to make a big trade. And we'll see who becomes available in the near future. But, like, you would have to trade one of those guys that are keepers for you, a Middleton type in order to get somebody better. So this is it, man. Like, this is your core. And it's without Malcolm Brogan, unfortunately, who, like we've just talked about, is super, super critical to their success on both ends of the fore.

We already talked about the Raptors. The 76ers, I listened to you. and Chris Ryan and Gons talk about 76ers. It seemed like you guys were all in alignment. You really like what they did. I'll tell you, man, I love Horford. I told you last week, I think Horford is a guy that has possibly superstar caliber impact on teams yet is certainly not regarded that way. Just what he brings to a team offensively and defensively.

And it's hard to imagine him not being on a good team. In fact, I was reading something yesterday saying he's never not been in the playoffs. So there's a reason I think of him as a winning player. Him and JJ Reddick. Yeah, he's been in the place every year. Yeah, you know, and that, I feel like people, I don't, like, JJ didn't average like 10 points a game last year. JJ averaged 18 points a game last year.

That is, that is a lot to replace. He average 18 and then obviously Butler was the be all end all when it came playoff time. you had an erratic you know Ben Simmons up and down you had sometimes available sometimes unavailable Joel M. Bede

sometimes great sometimes you know not but Jimmy Butler was kind of the mainstay and he was certainly the guy in the last five minutes of those games and if they lost it was probably because Jimmy didn't play well

and if they won it's probably because Jimmy played really well right in the last five minutes I feel like losing Butler and Reddick are massive losses that are not easily replaced. And I also think that that is a ridiculous contract for Tobias Harris. That's just me, though. And I would have said that no matter who signed him. So you're not feeling as good about their summer as a lot of other stuff. I just, no, just, I mean, Tobias Harris, I'm sorry. It is hard for me to get past a team getting rid of

you and getting better. But that happened. That happened. How good can you be? If somebody got rid of you and they got better. How good can your business be if they got rid of you and you get better? Like, that's not the way that it works. Our producer Clippers fan, Isaac Lee, is just over there nodding his head, smirking and smiling at your Tobias Harris comments. Well, I mean, look, the other thing that's always scary about him is the guy's been in the league for what, seven, eight years?

Every damn team, he's been on five teams. None of them wanted to keep him. How is that possible? I mean, it is. How is that possible? It is. Everybody ends up getting rid of him. It is pretty funny to think that Tobias Harris in the year 23, 24 will be getting paid $41 million.

I mean, that's outrageous. Come on. Get real. I mean, he's never made an All-Star team either, right? Well, and he hasn't made an All-Star team, has he? Oh, I mean, I don't know. Last year was his best chance at the clip. Even if he did, the Eastern Conference.

Like, what does All-Star mean? Like Dianzo Russell made the All-Star lot too last year. All right, here's what I know. James Earl Russell had a good year. He had a good year, but he wouldn't have been an all-star if it were like no conferences. I don't think that I should be able to get rid of you or lose you to injury and improve and then have to pay you $180 million. Well, that's the funny thing about it with Tobias Harris. He wasn't great with the six years.

He shot only 32% from three during the regular season with them during the postseason. season, you shot only 35% from three. So Tobias Harris had like a really, really good overall season, factoring in what he did with the Clippers alongside Gallinari in their front court. But with the Sixers, like he really wasn't great.

At times, he looked like the fourth wheel on that roster. I love the Horford deal. I hate the Tobias deal. And I think Philly fans are going to turn on that dude like nothing else. Because when he's relegated to like spot-up shooter in the corner, when he has games where he's scoring seven points.

And they say, we can't. get anybody else because we got stupid Tobias Harris Paying him 40 million bucks. You could be right. You could be right. But I will say this, though, getting Josh Richardson is quite an addition for them. I like Josh Richardson.

I think Josh Richardson's a little overrated by the media intelligentsia. I would agree with that. Who gets to see him twice a year? You know what I mean? I mean, like who the hell is watching the heat on lead pass? Stopping already. Everybody talked about these guys that are on the,

you know, these teams that nobody ever really watches them play nighted and night out, right? You ask heat fans, the ones that exist still, that, you know, what they think about the guy more so. And I don't know, he just gets talked up so much. It's like, well, then why did they suck? I don't mean, like, if the guy is so great, why do they suck? They got players on that team?

Huh? There are great players that play on bad teams, Chris. I'm just saying he's not a big needle mover. That's what I'm saying. That's fair. And I would agree with that. And Jimmy Butler is. Jimmy Butler moves the needle.

And I get that they turned out Jimmy Butler and Jimmy Butler ain't there anymore. But Jimmy Butler moves the needle. He is the anti-Tobias Harris in the sense that he talks too much. He probably gets into it with his coach and his teammates more than what you want. But like he leaves a place and they go to hell. they don't get better. They don't get better when Jimmy Butler leaves. They get worse.

You know what I mean? A team that was the third seed when he got hurt two years ago, they weren't sniffing the playoffs this past year. It wasn't that much change except for Jimmy Butler not being there. And they added players. They added Robert Covington. He goes on the Josh Richardson team. Robert Covington at Dario Sarich.

But they didn't, right? That team was significantly worse without Jimmy Butler. And so I just think Butler and Breddick are massive losses. I love both those players. Especially JJ. J.J., I mean, like Butler, obviously, he has a star power, but JJ was an important cog in their offense. So you ran so much dribble handoff between him and Joel and Bede. And that was something they ran nearly every time those guys, those two shared the floor,

at least once during a stint together. Now that's going to have to be replaced. And maybe it can work out in another way. Maybe you're able to run more pick and roll. that which is something I think the Sixers should do. However, like this team doesn't have a lot of shooting. That's the one big concern with them.

They don't have any true knockdown guys. Al Horford's fine. Josh Richardson is good. Matisse Stibble, a rookie coming in. You hope he'll be good as well. But like they don't have a ton of shooting. Joe L&B to somebody already teams are willing to sag off of. Ben Simmons is a non-shooter.

Tobias Harris, Josh, Josh Richardson and Al Horford, like those are your three. Those are your shooters on the roster. And none of those guys are elite shooters like JJ Redick has been his entire career. The other thing is, whose team is it? I mean, that team was a team that Jimmy Butler

walked right in and was like the alpha. Like he just walked right into it and was the alpha. So is it Embed now? Is that who it is? Is he the alpha on that team? Great teams have to have one. Hal Hord wouldn't stand up to Kyrie Irving. We read that.

You know Tobias is just, like golf in the corner. And Simmons is not really that, you know, he's not a domineering type attitude. I mean, you do have to have an alpha thought. He wants to be. So I guess it has to be Embed, right? I mean, I think it is Embedded.

Okay. But really, like, behind, here's the thing, right? I think it can work now because I think it's Embedding Simmons's team. It's those two who are the guys who are going to control everything that's going on on the court. Richardson and Harris have shown an ability over the course of their career to do what they need to do. They can do the stuff on ball when they have to. They can stand in the corner, run off screens when they have to as well. And with Richardson, the concern was like,

who's your guy at the end of the clock now, which is what you're touching on. Richardson will have to be the guy who eases into that as well Tobias Harris. And because Ben Simmons, until he did all helps at least an average jump shot cannot be that in a playoff setting at the end of the clock. And even for Joe Allen Bede, he needs to get better from the perimeter as well. His three-point shot. has hovered around 30% over time. So if he's put into an off-ball spot-up role or a post-roll for the Sixers, that shot needs to improve.

But Horford helps there with Embed, because at least Horford can be the guy who spaces and then Embed can be inside. Issue being that Ben Simmons also is somebody you want inside. The fit's weird. But I would be very fascinating to see how Brett Brown integrates all these guys. I said this on another podcast, but I think that you'll, you'll see maybe more quote unquote close pick and rolls, like where you have two big guys screening for each other

near the rim from the baseline. The Bucks have done this a lot with Janice. The Sixers did last year as well with Embed and their other larger players. And maybe we'll see more stuff like we saw with the Clippers with Blake Griffin handling the ball with DeAndre Jordan screening. You could see a lot more of that, just two big pick and rolls closer to the rim.

But that would go away from what Brepp Brown has historically done. they don't run a lot of pick and roll. So I'll be fascinating to see how their offensive system changes. All right. The four seed last year was the Boston Celtics. Obviously, we know they lost Kyrie Irving and they lost Al Horford. This is clearly not the offseason that I think Danny Ains or anybody that as an observer of the Celtics thought that they would have. they had a massive press conference with about 600 draft picks it seemed like

I think people thought they were going to trade those draft picks I think people thought they were going to trade you know they were going to be trading four players or adding players in free agency not much on the Celtics front that has happened scary Terry also left they have added Kemble Walker and well I guess yesterday was canter uh other reports are what do you make of the Celtics off season up to this point. Fine, considering that losing Irving and losing Horford was out of their control, getting Kemma Walker, he's a better overall fit than Kyrie in the personality department,

for sure, that kind of goes without saying. But also on the court, he's a bit more like Isaiah Thomas with his willingness and his style off of screens and off of handoffs. Kyrie Irving is a better shooter, a better scorer, a better defender. he's a better player, period, than Kemba Walker. But Kemba is not far worse than Kyrie, and he might be a better fit in the sense that Brad Stevens will be allowed to run more of his crisp motion actions

that he'd like to during the Isaiah Thomas era and still have a guy who can dominate the ball when necessary at the end of games in fourth quarters. So it can help in that sense, but losing Al-Horford, Chris, that changes the whole dynamic, because Horford was integral to Isaiah Thomas' success during that historic 16-17 season

when Isaiah Thomas had one of the most efficient high-volume scoring seasons in NBA history, placing fifth in MVP voting. He was integral the last two seasons to Carrie Irving's success because of the floor spacing he provides as a shooter, because of the playmaking he provides in the half court, but also was a guy who can bring the ball up the floor

and initiate the offense, giving the team a different look. So losing Horford means that this team is going to have to find a different way to play. And right now they don't have a big, man besides Robert Williams, besides potentially bringing back Daniel Tice, who is not that good, besides playing small with Grant Williams, a rookie, or

Shemi-Ojolay, who is just a fine role player. Wait, what about Cantor? Didn't they get Canter? But that's where I'm getting to. And with Cantor, with Cantor, who the only guy that they've added, he can't defend like Horford, and he's not a playmaker like Horford, and he's not a shooter quite like Horford. So their style is going to change drastically because of Horford's loss.

And I'm not sure what that means for Kemper Walker and the other guys on that team like Jason Tatum and Jaylon Brown, but I know it's not good. All right. Let me move to the next team beyond the Celtics, and that is the Indiana Pacers. I have been reading your tweets during Free Agency. I think there's two teams that you and I really agree on, and that is Utah and Indiana,

and really liking what they did. And interestingly enough, Indiana lost one of their key pieces, Bogdanovich, to, the aforementioned Utah Jazz, and Indiana added Malcolm Brogden, who were both a big fan of. And then I was going through their roster, and I remember, you know, you kind of forget some of the stuff that happened in the draft. I really, I've always been a T.J. Warren guy and think that T.J. Warren could be a really nice player in high-level games. I want to see guys like him get to play play playoff basketball, and I'm interested in what they can do. those teams lost some pieces

that he's young obviously all lost for them also but i you know you get oladipo back man i really like that back court uh in indiana and obviously utah and what they've done with surrounding mike conley when when you've got a lineup that save go bear donovan mitchell is the worst shooter in that is

insane i mean it's insane to think that donovan mitchell is like the least likely to hit a three pointer of the four other guys on the court outside of Gobert. But that is true with what they've got right now. I love what they did, man. Yeah, let's do Indiana first. Indiana and kind of what they've done this off season. That was a team that I think surprised everybody last year by losing Ola Depot and still

staying in the mix. They were a home court advantage team until the last couple of weeks of the season. And I think they've improved possibly greatly, don't you? Isaac, like you can just copy and paste everything I said about Brogden in regards to the Bucks part and like put it right here with how the impact that he can make on the Indiana Pacers. Like the two-way impact Brogden will provide to that team. Now in a back court alongside Victor Oladipo.

Brogdon's not your primary guy. OlaDipo is, but Brogden can push Ola Dippo off ball because of his playmaking, ball handling ability, which is going to be great for him. And then never mind the defensive impact that he brings next to Ola Dipo, another very, very good defender with Miles Turner, a guy who if he is able to increase his minutes, will be a defensive player of the year candidate this year. So you look at this Pacers team, they're going to be another strong, strong defensive team. But now they added Brogden, a guy who can make a complimentary offensive impact. And then T.J. Warren, Jeremy Lamb, who are not great by any means, but Warren

has shown some serious flashes to add a scoring punch to that roster. The Pacers, they're exciting, dude. They are exciting. I thought Jeremy Lamb was going to be a big overpay, and they got him on a good contract. You know what I mean? Like, I thought he was primed to be a, some team needs a shooting guard. He averaged 15 points a game last year. He's going to get a bunch of money because there's not a boatload of peers. But I thought they got him on a pretty good deal. So, all right, we're both like what Indiana did. How good is Brooklyn next year? do you think significantly better than they were this past year?

We know they are not going to have Kevin Durant for a year. They made the moves. They got Kyrie. They got Kevin Durant. They added their buddy DeAndre Jordan to that mix. You know, and they've lost some guys. Some of those role players that played really nice roles for them, the Jared Dudley's of the world, the DiMari Carols of the world,

DeAngelo Russell, obviously, on a different team. Do we think Brooklyn is a lot better next year than they were this past year? Yeah. Yeah, they should be. Even without KD. Kary Irving's a better player than DeAngelo Russell. Yes, they should be better than 42 wins. It should work.

I think with Kyrie, like the personality stuff, you know, it's real. There's a legitimate concern about that with him. But on the court, he is a better shooter, a better scorer, a guy who has proven himself against the best players, whereas DeAngel Russell is young and so much of his success was because of his potency from mid-range. Kyrie is potent from everywhere. He's better at getting to the rim and I've thrown up this stat a couple of times already,

but DeAngel Russell, of guys that attempted over 18 shots per game, had the second lowest free throw rate ever in NBA history. Irving doesn't get to the rim a lot either, but he can when he wants to, unlike Russell, who has a slower first step and isn't quite as, silky of a ball handler. So Kyrie is a better player, period. Never mind the fact that you're going to have Karis Lavert for the full season after the leap he took in adding Torraine Prince, who is a really, really good complementary score and maybe in this Kenny Atkinson

system, his defensive consistency improves as well. And then DeAndre Jordan, with Jared Allen, it'll be interesting. Jared Allen is the better of those two based off production last season. But with DeAndre Jordan, he can still rim run. He's still an elite rebounder. the question will be, where is his defensive effort? The last three years or so, he has been a bad defender, especially this past season with the Mavericks and the Knicks. He has been a bad defender who just does not try.

But he doesn't try. So maybe now he begins trying on that end. Here's the trick, though, okay? And I get it with the Kyri stuff. Brooklyn was a worse version of that Boston team a couple of years ago, in that you watch that team and it seemed like they had this great chemistry. They all really liked each other. They played a bunch of guys.

And so I'm not saying that, you know, it's going to have the same thing. But that is the impression I always got with Brooklyn last year. That team was filled with joy. They were super deep. They had these really, you know, good role-playing veterans that are not the best players in the world, but it felt like a collective was doing it and that that team all really liked each other. the Ed Davis and Shabazz Napier and Alan Crabb and Damoree Carroll and Jared Dudley and Spencer Dinwiddie and all these guys. It was kind of, you know, they all raised each other up and they kind of did everything as a team.

And you wonder, right? Like we saw the impact that it had on Tatum and we had on Brown playing with Kyrie. What kind of impact does it have on Joe Harris? What kind of impact does it have on Karis Levert? and these guys. I mean, I think you just say, oh, Kyrie's awesome and it's going to be awesome. But who knows?

It could screw up that chemistry too. And that team I felt like was in part successful because of that chemistry they had last year. You know what? It is a thought and it's a serious, you know, concern that Kyrie could potentially ruin everything that they've built there. But I will say this. In regards to Brooklyn's system,

they are a team that runs a lot more pick and roll than Boston does. They finished in the NBA last year, the fourth most possessions using the pick and roll in the entire league. Boston was 25th. So when you're considering the system, a team that runs a lot more isolation, a lot more pick and roll, it is what they've done last year.

They just happened to do it with Spencer Dinwiddie and Kyrie Irving. And now it's going to be a lot more Kyrie with Dinwiddie and some of the other guards that they have on that team. So his style, you know, with the heavy pick and roll is more of a fit with that roster with what Kenny Atkinson wants to do. So I'm a little bit less concerned with it. Well, some of the guys that you mentioned to that team, like a Joe Harris, well, he's an offball player. I get it. For Boston, Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown and Terry Rozier, they literally just led a team to game seven of the Eastern Conference finals.

And then Gordon Hayward comes back and he stinks. then Kyrie Irvin comes back and he's being weird the entire season, making passive aggressive comments about his teammate's not sacrificing. So for Boston, a lot of it was because of Kyrie just destroying the chemistry. But part of it was just because of the circumstances with Brown and Tatum being guys that are young guys who want to get better and who need the ball in their hands. And then Hayward coming back and just sucking. Like, he wasn't good, man. So the mix just wasn't right there.

Whereas with Brooklyn, I feel a bit better that it's going to work. And with Kyrie Irving, like, he's not a bad guy. And that's something to remember here. He's not a bad person. He has to, he's, you know, can be difficult. There can be drama. But he's not a bad person. And so for Brooklyn, I think you're going to be fine with Kyrie there,

especially with having KD coming back in a year. Guess what? even if Kyrie is whining and certain guys are having difficulties with them, guess what? You have Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. You're still a championship contender. Okay. Let me ask you about a couple of other these teams.

The two that I was, why are they spending so much money on what they're spending so much money on? Well, let's save the Knicks for a little bit later because I'm told that you love the Knicks now. But let's go. Hey, the magic and the king. Kings. Two teams that have some really talented young players on those teams. And yet when I was seeing, you know, it come across the screen, the magic signed this guy to this contract. And I've got respect for John Hammett as a GM. I just didn't really get it. And then the Kings, I mean, I get that like some of these are non-guaranteed at the end. But just in terms of the reporting, at one point it was like, I think it was $188 million combined to Trevor oriza, Dwayne Des. Edmund Harrison Barnes and Corey Joseph. And I'm like, what?

Like, 188 million? That's what I'm spending enough? I mean, I just. And then on the Orlando side, the Boisevic thing was the first thing. Poor Riley from the ringer. Okay. So it seems goofy to you too, right?

I mean, that's an awful lot of money. And then they signed your boy, Rishon Holmes last night. I'm like, what the hell did you spend all that money on Dwayne Dedman then for? Like, what, I swear, Vladi loves center. He's just going to try to

Every one of them is going to play for the Kings at some point They should have given Rashon Holmes the max. I can't believe he's going to a third team already this young in his career. You got to hang on to guys like that. The Kings added some solid role players. It's just they paid them all too much, including Harrison Barnes. They're paying him too much over $21 million annually.

Here's the thing. Harrison Barnes and Trevor Reza theoretically should play the same position, right? Like they're both small forwards next to a guy that you drafted number two last year, Marvin Bagley playing power forward. I mean, I guess you can move Barnes over, but like even just the duplicity of it all, that's what was crazy to me. So I don't, here's one reason why I don't necessarily mind it too much. There are some overpays here, but at least now, most of these contracts can be up because they're non-guaranteed or options, as you said. that's fair at least you can head into 2021 or 2022 and have the ability to create some cap space

at least you have that choice i saw them last year and obviously they didn't have amazing year but i i remember tweeting out it's a super competitive year man man i would love to build i would love to build around a core of fox healed and bagley and bogdanovitch yeah and i love bogey too you got those four guys I mean, that's, that's not that hard to build around. And then they got to this offseason.

I'm like, what the hell are you doing? Well, and that's the thing. For them, it's yes, they overpaid for Deadman and Areza and Joseph, but you're building an infrastructure around that young core you're talking about. Fox healed, Bogdanovich, Bagley, in order to provide them necessary, solid veteran supporting players to help promote their development. So this is why, like, I don't mind it. Yes, they're overpaid.

but you get to spend the money somewhere and you're getting guys who you know are rock solid players who fit around the young guys that you want to continue getting better. They just can't continue. They can't make more mistakes moving forward. I hope they don't do anything short term. They need to be thinking about when these guys, Fox, Bagley, and so on, are about to reach their prime in that 20-21 range.

At that point, that's when the big move needs to happen. They need to be ready for that. Hopefully for the Kings, they don't screw it up. But I don't mind the slight over pace. I really don't. Okay. The other one I mentioned was to Orlando. We kind of touched on that.

And then let's get to the next. Because, Kev, listen, I don't have a problem with them missing out on free agency after trading Porzengis. I mean, you can't trade Porzzi. You don't want to talk about the magic. Don't want to talk about Markle Fultz. No, no, no. Go ahead. I have nothing to say.

I really don't. Well, you saw the money they spent. Is there anything that you really liked about it? No, I mean, Amino's fine. Did you have a meeting of the Bamba livers? Yeah, we all cried together. That Vucevich got $100 million, nearly double what

Brooke Lopez got. I don't think you're getting a lot of minutes at center if you're Moamba when you're paying the first guy, 20 million. Tough spot from Mo. Yeah. Tough spot. Right. Still had a song written after him.

Still has a bright future. That may be his lasting legacy, honestly. Might be his lasting legacy. Let me get to the Knicks. Listen, you can't whiff on free agency after you trade Porzinger. Trading Porzingis is stupid if you're going to, this is what's going to happen. Like, you sell that for, hey, and we've got this cap space now. But now you decide, okay, well, we do want to sign some players so that we can be competitive

and we can at least have some good players on the roster and have some assets. But they signed three guys that play the same position. why are you spending all that money? Can we at least spread it out a little bit? I mean, I got Julius Randall. I like Julius Randall. I like Bobby Portis and Todd Gibson, whatever. But why am I citing all three of those guys who are all power forwards and can't play together very well?

What are we doing here? It's one thing to spend money. It's another to spend it stupidly. I like those players. But how about can we at least like spread it out to where? we can get some players that can actually play together from the Knicks? How can you like this? First.

How can you like this? The Knicks off season is not as bad as it is making it out to be. What? It's like, yes, they missed out on Kevin Durant. Yes, they missed out on Kyrie Irving. Here's where the Knicks screwed up. Trading their franchise player and then getting the booby bride. Here's where they screwed up.

They should have waited on signing some of these guys in order to keep themselves, in order to absorb a contract like we just saw with the Clippers, taking on Moharkless and getting a future first round draft pick. That's what they should have done. That's where they missed out. However, signing these guys where all their deals are up in 2021 or can be up in 2021, that's not the worst thing in the world.

They got some guys who play hard. They got some guys who can help, you know, hope promote the development of some of their young guys like R.J. Barrett and Kevin Knox. and they need to fix their image over the next two years. So in 2021, they big, they can. We're not doing this again. We're not doing this again. In 2021, they can enter that out. Wait, wait a minute.

The next can enter the 2021 offseason with the following players on their rookie contracts. RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, their first round draft picked in 2021 and 2020, and the Mavericks first round pick in 2021, they can enter a free agency with the ability to create two max slots that summer. Get out of my face. Get out of my face. So for the next.

Stop. It's all about it. Stop. You can't even say it seriously. You can't even say it seriously. Dude, I am serious. My man Fizz is going to be coming out of apholic. That dude really, you know he took that.

job thinking he was going to be coaching Kevin Theran. Instead he's going to be coaching Bobby Portis. Unbelievable. Dude, no, what's Bobby Portis is not horrific. Let's not act like he's a bad player. I didn't say, but that's not why you take that, you take that job thinking, oh my God,

you know, I'm, I'm one, I got to go through one hellacious season and maybe I'm getting Zion. Maybe I'm getting, maybe I'm getting Zion, maybe I'm getting Kyrie, maybe I'm getting Durant, maybe I'm getting both of them. Like, this is going to be great. And you look up and you're like, oh, my God. What?

Like, my best player wanted out. Like, they should have kept Porzinger's if this is going to be the case. Right? I mean, no, the Porzinger's didn't want to be there. He's an injury prone player. They got two future first round draft picks for him and a handful of nice other young assets like Dennis Smith. No. The Porzinger's trade is a significant risk, but it's something that they gambled on.

Yeah, all their gambles have been dumb. Like, is it called gambling and you lose every time? Yeah, a lot of gamblers lose a lot of money. My other concern with the Knicks is there, is there enough shooting around RJ Barrett? No. I mean, do you want me to answer your hypotheticals, or do you want to just let them sit in the wind?

Yeah, you can answer them. They're only shooters on the team. They really have her. Please say it. Please. Reggie Bullock And Wayne This man said they're only shooting as Reggie Bullock

Get out of me, man Come on. Good grief. It's not as As you are talking through it and you are attempting to tell me how this is not as bad as I think it is every time you start to talk about their roster,

you can't even sell it to me without breaking up in laughter. You can't do it. They don't have much shooting except for Ritchie Fulley. What are we talking about here? Because I hear you cackling and questioning every state. Because it's outrageous. But it's not. Yes, it is.

Dude, I've, okay, everybody at the ringer think of, thinks I'm nuts. I've been like, I've been in our Ringer Slack, NBA Slack the last couple days being like the, jokingly saying. the Knicks are loaded. Loaded? It's a joke. Hey, like a diaper. They're loaded like a diaper.

That's how they're loaded. They are loaded like a diaper. Dude, when I say that they can enter 2021, that's a lot of good rookies. That's a lot of good rookies. A lot of good young talent with R.J. Barrett, Knox, Robinson. Two first round draft picks for the Knicks, which should be top five picks because they're going to stink.

And the Mavericks pick in 2021. you can enter that summer in 2021 and have a ton of flexibility in terms of assets that you trade. Maybe you want to flip Kevin Knox at that point. Maybe you want to trade one of those first-round draft picks and have the ability to create two max slots. I know it's the same thing that they had this summer,

but now it just wasn't the time. They just didn't, they didn't work out. They didn't land KD. They didn't land KRA. It didn't work out. So what's the next best thing? It's building for the next time that you could take a swing.

And maybe at that point the team is more ready with the roster because this team is still young and raw. Barrett, who knows what he'll look like as a rookie. Knox was not good. Last year, Smith is not good right now. So it's like this team was not ready to really build around a star, especially with KD coming off the Achilles and Kyrie going there on a soul act. They should have just built around Tim Hardaway Jr.

I don't mind what the Knicks did. The big mistake, like I said, the big mistake the summer was not trying to remain more financially flexible in order to take on and absorb those contracts that happen to make other deals work like Harkas. That's where the mistake was the son, in my opinion. Katie and Kyrie, out of your control. But the most important thing for the next is the next two years, James Dolan, just like be quiet and like get out of the way.

Just let the front office do their thing because their image needs to change. And I'm not sure, I mean, it will matter for some players. It doesn't matter for others. For LeBron, it did not matter. matter going to the Lakers. LeBron is always the exception. But other guys will look at that and do consider that how ownership, how ownership acts and how ownership operates.

So even if what is true, even if what is perceived is different from the actual truth, perception matters. And so for the next two years, I think the next really need to be careful about how Dolan is, Dolan specifically needs to be because they need to fix their image. So in 2021, they do look appealing. Right now they don't. but in 2021, they could. Okay.

All right, let's just wrap up with this today. Is there a signing that you immediately upon seeing it said, like, and maybe not just star, but that you thought, wow, that is a great sign by a team that has taken place in free agency? Anybody that may be a little under the radar. And I'm talking about in the class of the, you know, Domaree Carroll to the Spurs or like, you know, Rodney Hood back to Portland. you know, like that, around that kind of area more so than like the big time players.

I'm not talking about Kyrie getting four years, 141 million. I'm talking about, you know, maybe lesser guys. It's JJ Redick going to the Pelicans because already I was thinking about the Pelicans trying to figure out ways this team could actually make the postseason with a rookie Zion Williamson. And JJ Redick doesn't necessarily swing the needle in that way. but he is what they needed now next to a team that doesn't have a ton of shooting on it

like that was the one concern with them I think they're going to be really good defensively I think they're going to be fun offensively but in the half court they needed a guy who can stroke the ball and JJ Redick is one of the best ever so for them to add JJ who another one of those guys like we mentioned earlier who has never missed the post season

JJ at 34 years old or just turned 35 last month actually JJ at 35 years old is still a guy who can fill it up. And I think next to Zion, there are a lot of exciting things that Alvin Gentry could do with that offense, with the amount of guys that can handle the ball, the amount of guys that can be used as screeners. JJ fits in perfectly next to every single other guy in that roster.

So JJ Redick, for sure, the two-year $26 million deal that he's signed. All right. Mine would be Ed Davis. When that came up, because Ed Davis, listen, I've known him for years since he's very young player in the league. And I do know the guy and I like him greatly, but I'm trying to separate myself from that. Ed plays defense and Ed plays hard all the time. He's got a real motor and he rebounds and he plays team basketball and he can keep the ball moving. And you get guys that come off your

bench and they give you great energy. And then in a pinch, when you need him to start, he can start for you and grab you, you know, he'll get you 14 points and 11 rebounds on the night you need him. And so it gives you. you go bear insurance, I also think he is perfect to put with those guys and what they've got in Utah and really makes up for the loss of, you know, favors. And he's, he's real size that can help the team. And he, that's a, I mean, you're paying $5 million for a guy that will absolutely be in your rotation, which to me, that's, that's what great, that's how great teams are built by finding guys that can be in your rotation that are $5 million players

because it's usually, you know, rookies that you have to do that with. Those are the guys that are not getting paid. They're still on their rookie contract that contributing a lot. And so they are greatly outperforming their contract. Five million bucks for a guy that plays for you every night. That's, that's to me a steal. It really is. It's mind-blowing how many teams Ed Davis has played for and bid productive for.

And Utah is going to be the next. one is a backup center behind Rudy Gobert. Great for them. Great for them. It actually, it could have worked out in his spot. He was in the Rudy Gay trade. That's how I met him, first of all, when he was part of a very good Memphis team.

And the coach always resented him because of the Rudy Gay trade. Like immediately. Like he walked into practice the first day on Lionel Hollins. You know what he said to him? Not hello, not welcome to the team, nothing. You know what he said?

He walked right up to Ed and he goes, You're a lot shorter than I thought you were. And, like, just hated it the whole time. He just resented him because he was so bad about the Rudy Gay trade, even though it made the team significantly better. But Tashon, Prince, Ed Davis, that whole deal that went down. And I was an Ed Davis fan then, and he wasn't good to play. And obviously, I followed him throughout, played for the Lakers, played for the Blazers, played for Brooklyn.

He helps teams. He does. He helps teams. And he's a great locker room guy. Great. good veteran guy to have around. So that's mine. This has been very, very wild to say the least.

We ain't even done. There's still a lot of players out there that don't have teams yet, for sure. One of the names we didn't even mention, Demarcus cousins and Adrian Wargenowski reported last night. There's no market for him, maybe not even for the mid-level. You called that. You did. It's hard to believe.

Wonder where he'll end up. That is very hard to believe. All right, Kevin, Summer League begins this weekend, and I will see you there. be together in Las Vegas. Hopefully we'll see a bunch of listeners out there of the mismatch. Say, hey, if you see us. Last year we sat next to each other to watch Bagley versus Aiton. What do you look forward to the most?

I know Zion RJ is like on night number one. Zion RJ. That's like that's the only thing I'm necessarily looking forward to. The rest of it, it's like depending on timing with lunches and dinners and all that to plan around that. but there's going to be a lot of great players to watch, a lot of great young players to watch, see which college players come back, looking better with new skills.

Yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to all of it collectively, but the one thing I'm really, really looking forward to, of course, is RJ versus Zion, Pelicans versus Knicks Friday night. That'll be fun. I will find you there at the game. We will obviously do the podcast next week from Las Vegas. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Misty. match.

Hopefully, collis signs by then. Man, you ain't lying. Go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars, and we will talk to you next week.