The Ringer NBA Show - The Kawhi Leonard Mystery and Pre-Playoffs Questions | Group Chat (Ep. 233)

Episode Date: March 22, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by Paolo Uggetti to discuss a new wrinkle in the strange case of Kawhi Leonard (0:48), debate whether the Cleveland Cavaliers have flipped a switch (9:56), evaluate how the Portland Trail Blazers will fare in the playoffs (20:52), and consider playoff teams on a hot streak (25:24). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Belvedere, produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries. Belvedere vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka, crafted by a collective of mastered distiller's. Belvedere is made with non-GMO, Polish rye, pure water, and no additives recognized for quality. Belvedere was named the ISC World Vodka Producer of the year in 2015, 16, and 17. Enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere vodka today, and remember to always drink responsibly. Basketball is very good. The Raptors are the best team in the... Phil Jackson actually saved the Knicks. Mark L. Fultz will be an all-star next year. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to group chat. My name is Chris Ryan.

I am joined by Pallu Getti. What's up? Justin Varyer. Hi, Chris. It's raining in Southern California, and it's raining gossip in San Antonio, Texas. We begin with a report from Woge on ESPN that these Spurs

had a players-only meeting in which they, quote, implored Kauai Leonard. Great word, by the way. To come back. The chronology of the reporting coming out of San Antonio has been pretty interesting

because a couple days ago, there was some Manu quotes about, kind of defeated sounding of just like he's not coming back. Kaui Leonard is not coming back. He's been nursing this quad injury. There have been stories all year. First, there was the stories

about tension with Kauai and the Spurs. Then there was some stuff with Kauai and Jumpman and how he wanted a bigger deal from them. it's been more or less confirmed that medically Kauai has been cleared by the spurs but that he has his own team and even Pops said this a couple days ago

like his guys who were looking at his quad who are kind of evaluating his quad and whether or not it's pain or whether or not there's actually still something medically wrong we don't know but we had the manu quote which was just kind of like this somber Kauai's not coming back

the cavalry is not coming and that apparently was today we have a report that they had a players-only meeting where they implored Kauai to like, you know, buck up and come through. Moments after this Woad report comes out, several members of the Spur

started tweeting that it was BS. Brandon Paul did a little like satire of it, and Danny Green was like it couldn't be further from the truth. Both well done in their own different way. Yeah. So this is interesting on a lot of different levels. One, the immediacy with which these guys hit up Twitter

to like dispute this. story, which just goes to show that everybody's kind of addicted to social media and immediately knows when there's been a, you know, sources say story written about their team. Two, the pushback, which is something that the spurs had not done a lot of this year. They have allowed this story to kind of fester. Popovich gave that post-practice interview where he was just like, well, we got to know who we're going to be with. Like, we got to know who we're going to run out there. What do you think of this story, man?

It's so strange. Yeah, I mean, it speaks to the whole idea that we've been talking about throughout kind of tracking this, just like how different this is for the Spurs. Yeah. But this one in particular almost feels like there's a different arena happening outside of the day-to-day of a team and like the media interaction there. There's almost like a woge zone now where it's like things are true and someone said them, but we don't know where they're coming from because they're all anonymously sourced.

Yes. And now you almost have a pushback from the other side. So there's like these warring factions. And I think for us, you kind of sit back and watch it all. play out, like, I'm just confused. Yeah. I just really want to know what's going on here. And for someone, perhaps on the spur side of the things,

to basically just come out and say, this is how it actually is, and this is what we're going to do going forward. Yeah, Pop's been relatively quiet. R.C.'s been relatively quiet about it. I mean, I don't know if R.C. Buford's commented on it at all. And one thing you have to ask yourself, Paulo, when you see these stories is, what's the end game, right? Like, what are the various parties you're trying to accomplish?

We can't know where it's coming from, right? The search sources. But I think the goal probably, is just to get Kauai back on the court. Like I think that there's probably a contingent with the Spurs that is just like cleared this guy. Like there's got to be pent up frustration by now

of like when is he coming on the court? You know, we have the report too where it's like oh he's coming Thursday against him. Last week. It was last week. And then like nothing. So I think if there is any end game at all that we can kind of parse through through all these reports and details is that like people want Kauai on the court.

And maybe there's just kind of budding heads about how to go about that or how different people feel passionately about whether he should or shouldn't come back. But I think it seems like that's like the end game here. And at the same time, I'm just like, I think it's hilarious that, of course, this is like the season we're talking about the Spurs the most. And it's because of like an entire like, it just happened to be that way. Yeah, we're not used to seeing a Spurs team with a relatively mediocre record.

And this was a team that I think was specifically built because they liked what they saw in the Western Conference finals in the one three quarters that Kauai played against the Warriors. and they were like, we like our chances with our best guys healthy. And so they did, you know, Manu came back, and they do have an older team that was sort of built to compete in the playoffs, I think, even though now in retrospect you have to wonder whether or not, especially with the rise of Houston, if they could have really competed with those two teams.

But we'll probably never know. Yeah, they were probably trying to tank is what happened. I do think it's interesting that even in the week or two since we last talked about this, It seems like they've made enough of a step forward to at least stay out of like the fray Like underneath the A-Seed. I think it's really impressive. The Marcus is on a roll. If you look at his, I think over the last six games, he has, he scored like 25, 37, 37, 33, 30.

Like I think he had 27 last night. He's just been on fire. And like that's obviously, that's kind of what they needed because that would be Kauai providing that kind of production. And they're having a tough schedule and they're beating these teams like the Wizards last night. So it's working out for them in the sense of staying in the playoff race and not being on the fringes. Right. while the Nuggets flub their best chance at doing this

as the Clippers just kind of can't really get over the hump there. A team that's like Pao Gassal and Lamarcus Oldridge and Tony Parker claiming he wants to play three more years. And Kyle Anderson playing for a contract. He had a bunch of guys. They're six right now. And I know it's just like a complete car wreck in the middle of the West right now,

but that's saying something. They're ahead of the wolves. I guess my big question is, is this about the Spurs medical team or is it about Kauai? So my question is, would this still be the case if Kauai was on the Lakers? Is there something here that is a hidden sort of protest about playing for the Spurs for some reason? Or is it literally just Kauai is like, this is a bad injury, and I'm still not over it, and you guys want me to come back, and just because it says the quad is healed,

it doesn't feel like it's healed, and I don't know, I'm not ready. The strangest thing about this is if there is any team, any franchise, who I think has played it relatively safe with their guys and said, hey, okay, so you're out for the season. And the Spurs haven't done that with Kauai. And Kauai hasn't come out and said, I'm not going to play this year. Right. I think we don't know is the best way we can answer that. But I do think we have more of a track record with this franchise than anyone else. And it points to the institution and all the various parts, their medical staff and their sports science staff is at the forefront of the league. And they've been that way for years, almost decades. And when we have Kauai, we actually didn't know much about him.

We knew that he played basketball really well. We knew he was a fringe MVP candidate. We really didn't know this guy in a personal level. We kind of defaulted to the fact that he was a robot and he doesn't say anything funny. And now it's almost maybe we're hearing more about him or maybe more specifically more about the people closest to him who were talking for him. I just think the most surprise. I'm echoing you guys. But essentially, like, we know that this is like a coach that purposefully rest guys just in the middle of the season, national TV games.

so that like the absence of rest or the fact that they want to get him back from essentially resting and playing out his injury off the court is just so shocking that I don't even know what to do. Yeah. And then you also have Kauai a couple weeks ago saying I want to be a spur for life. So the inability, they can't put this story to bet and that's the hardest part is neither side seems to be able to put this story to bed. The spurs could end it by saying he's not going to come back this season. But instead they're like, you know, we have to play with who we've got. It's like a weird lack of definitive statements that I think is what's affecting. They're like sub-tweeting each other back and forth.

A little bit. Yeah. And Kauai's saying that like he's a spur for life, I almost roll my eyes at that immediately. Just because that's the type of like blanket statement that someone's going to say in response to all these things happening. And which is leading me to almost question the Brandon Paul's and the Danny Greens because they're more likely to tow the party line. Whereas like the anonymous sources at least will speak truth just under the veil of just like having an enmity. So it's a mess. I just want to know what's happening.

Yeah, me too. All right, so let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors, and we're going to come back and talk about some pre-playoff questions we have about some playoff teams. Today's episode of The Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions on your phone, in your car and around the house. For example, hey, Google, add chips and salsa to my shopping list.

Okay, I've added chips and salsa to your shopping list. Download the Google Assistant. The Ringer MBA show is also brought to you by Yahoo. Baseball spring training is in full swing, and it's time to start thinking about your Yahoo Fantasy Baseball drafts. Flex your skills as a real GM and crush your league with the Yahoo Fantasy app. The Yahoo! Fantasy app is the number one mobile app for Fantasy Baseball. Draft, trade, and manage your team right from your phone.

The new weekly scoring format makes it even easier to run your team all season. Use the set active players feature to set your lineup for the week in one tap. Sign up now at Yahoo.com slash Fantasy Baseball. Create your own league or join a public league. don't miss out on baseball season. Yahoo Fantasy Baseball is the official fantasy game of Major League Baseball. All right, guys. So last night, the Cavaliers beat the Raptors 132, 129. And there was something Larry Drew said that kind of prompted me to think about these ideas of some pre-playoff questions we have for these teams. Larry Drew, he's got his moment here because Ty Lou is away

from the team for medical reasons. Larry Drew said, I always say there is one game during the season that changes your team. That game can be early. It can be midway. It can be late. But there's one game that kind of changes your team, the mindset, and I really believe that tonight's game might have done that for us. Coming off a 35 and 17 game, LeBron James responded, turn around the season, we've only got like 11 more games. So maybe seeing why Larry Drew is not necessarily the head coach of this team, but did you see anything from Cleveland last night as we approached the postseason that made you think they turned the corner? I mean, it's kind of exactly what you would want from a Cleveland team kind of like flipping the switch here in the second

and a half and maybe going into the playoffs. I think for me, the biggest takeaway was that I almost forgot Kevin Love existed. And when we were doing all these analysis of all these teams going to the playoffs and, oh, the East is a mess, you almost forgot that he was going to come back and provide a dynamic that, like, they just didn't have before. Like, LeBron can make a lot of nothing, right? But the fact that he has a clear-cut second banana, I mean, I think it means a big deal for this team.

That was a big thing that I noticed last night was that Kevin Love never got a chance, really, to play the plan B. When he went down, he sort of had a good opening part of the season. Isaiah Thomas came back, his number's cratered, and then he broke his hand. And so he never got to just play

the second option on this offense. And then last night, I was just noticing, first of all, just a great game from him. But second of all, he knows what to do in relationship to LeBron on the floor.

Like when LeBron, he can tell based on certain things that LeBron's doing, whether LeBron's going to shoot or want to pass. And you could see his movement through the lane or backing up and getting into a position to shoot, that there was just a familiarity with LeBron that all these five other guys who just arrived don't have. Yeah, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but Juliet and I have been on Kevin Love Corner for a

while now, whether it's been through his social media or on the court. But I think you're right. Like, in a weird way, he's become the guy that LeBron has to rely on and that he has the most confidence on. He was the guy he was supposed to be when they traded Wiggins for him. Exactly. And now he has to have the most confidence in them because he's the one who's been there the longest essentially like I guess if you want to count like jair smith but you know he's the guy who is going to be there in the corner in that perfect spot for lebron to kick it out and he'll get he's

going to hit the three most of the time so i think he's changing the dynamic of the team altogether which is making them this good but at the same time i think it all kind of goes back to lebron and i'm sure we're going to talk about this but these are the type of games that make you believe in the cabs even though when everything else is telling you not we were at a bar last night a bunch of us for watching and it was like you just don't bet against LeBron in the playoffs. Like this is a really good example of not betting against LeBron James in the playoffs.

And it was, you know, last 20 games, he's averaged a triple double, 30.5 points on 55% shooting 40 from 3, 10.5 boards and 10.5 assists per night in the last 20 games. It's insane. Yeah, he played 39 minutes last night. He does not look at all like he's slowing down.

He was responsible for 80 points. He either scored or assisted on last night. The guy is, he is this team right now, and he is, I kept waiting. for him to dip. I kept waiting for him to need a week off. I kept waiting for a weird ankle injury that was hobbling him. And it just seems like he's getting stronger and stronger as the season goes on. If James Hardin wasn't having one of the great offensive seasons in the history of basketball, you could make the argument that LeBron's like pushing his way back into the MVP race

right now. I guess the question I have is that, yeah, they won last night. They still gave up 129 points. And there were a couple of nights where Sillow was tweeting about this. A lot of people were showing, like, their defense still sucks. It's really bad. They still had to win a track meet, which was still the case when Kyrie was there. I think even at their best, they were going to have to overwhelm a team with offense. And even in the playoffs, it was really like, LeBron can beat you, Kyrie can beat you an ISO ball. And that's still very important.

And I think if you wanted to bet for them in the East, that's still the reason to bet for LeBron. I'm curious if they have enough defensively and if they have the right parts defensively. Because if you say their best five is some combination of a front court with Larry Nance, Kevin Love, and LeBron, then who's the four in that situation? And if Kevin Love has to chase around the Pascal Seacum, some of the three-point shooters, is that like a weak spot that teams are going to be able to exploit in a way that they couldn't, maybe in the playoffs when he was playing more five?

Yeah, I mean, I was, I think that they were probably hoping that that would be set off by George Hill being a better perimeter defender. Sure. But I don't know. I mean, like last night, there was a lot of sleuthers. sleeping J.R. moments. There was a lot of sleeping LeBron moments. There's like one that's like Van Villeet with 11 feet with LeBron just like being like yeah. And you know what? Here's the thing is that maybe the reason why LeBron James is averaging a triple double in the last 20 games as we at the end of the regular season and he has played every single game this is because some nights he's just like I'm not running after Fred Blan's Lee. I'm not just going to pretend effort you know effort merchant this if it's not actually worth it. He knows that allocate his resources like 30. Come on. Like. He's got to give and take. But I think the one thing I saw last night was watching the game,

I was kind of impressed by Kevin Love's defense and effort even. And I was like, that's probably not the best sign, but at least that he's the best defender. He like recovered on a hedge and I was like, who fuck is this guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He was amazing. He was really good at times.

They were actually pretty thin last night. No Nance, no hood, no Osman, Cover, no Thompson. So, you know, the theme of the NBA season to me, aside from the Rockets who have pretty much been a wire-to-wire juggernaut is that we just don't know who any of these teams are because of injuries because of trades because of getting to know you because now Roberson's out

so we don't know who the Thunder are anymore and now they've flipped over the entire Cavs roster so we have to figure out who they are and the Warriors are going through nobody's ever healthy at the same time or in shape at the same time. So like other than the rockets one of the reasons why I'm asking these questions is I don't really know who these teams

are. Now the other team besides the Rockets who I think deserve the least amount of questioning is the Raptors. That's what I was going to say. Like, you were saying, like, we don't know what these teams are. And we do know what the Raptors are because they've also been kind of wired to wire in a way. But at the same time, we're just prone to doubt them. Okay.

But we know that their whiners is what we know. Okay. That's, I was going to ask you if you feel like there is any Raptors freeze up last night. I mean, they just beat the Rockets like a week ago or whatever that game was. And, you know, they lost the Thunder over the weekend. But was there any big stage national? game, LeBron, on the road. And they've been making a big deal about the reps in the last couple weeks.

Like, I understand it. I understand the chip on the shoulder. But it does feel like they're like, look, we're not getting the respect we deserve. So, like, don't expect too much. Yeah. And I watched that entire Thunder game that they played, I think, on Sunday. And not only was them on the court, but they're like broadcasters. We're like kind of warping everything into them not having respect and making this a sign of like.

Fake news, fake refs. Yeah. Maybe a little bit. I mean, that game last night was just a showing of all the good with the Raptors and all the potential downside in the playoffs just because when they scored, what was it, 80 in the first half, we were all like, damn. Yeah. Look at Toronto. This is a rap. This is it.

Yeah. And then they kind of just put up an egg and they put up, I think, 20 points in that third quarter. And it really speaks to what we all feared about them where it's like, LeBron is the best player on the court. And in the playoffs, it becomes a little reductive and a little more simplistic. And he could just win a game for you. Yeah. And I was going through the cab splits through the year, and I don't have anything like hardcore to report,

but it was definitely, you know, their losses are generally they're shooting around 30% from three. Yeah. And last night they shot, I think, like 65% from three. That's their offense. Yeah. Yeah. So, but they're streaky.

That's the thing. And if they are hitting, a 20-point lead doesn't matter. Raptors being up 20 in the beginning of the third is not a big deal, you know? And so that's the thing that I think the Raptors needs to guard against is complacency. and I also think that last night, there was a little bit of them getting out of their stuff. There was a little bit of, okay, give it to Damar and clear out.

And I think that one thing that we thought they had kind of turned the page with here was a more elegant offense that limited the usage of Lowry a little bit more, made him more of like a Chris Paul type player. But I saw a lot of like Damar hoping that he got a call. And that's just going to be as a risk if you want to play that way down the fourth quarter,

although that's the way most NBA teams play in the fourth quarter. And if you want to play in the playoffs like that, Because, you know, we're championing their system as being more fluid. But at the same time, we know how playoff games work. And we know that at some point, they're going to have to give the ball to DeMarr and be like, go get us a basket. Yeah. So I think it's, I mean, it's the whole thing of like who's their alpha, you know? And obviously it's DeMar.

It's been kind of clear that way. But at the same time, can he do it in a game like this or in the playoffs? Yeah. I think in their defense, God forbid that I'm the one defending the Raptors right now. You're the North. Come on. Sort of northeast. I think they have enough people.

pieces on that team to potentially counter some of these mistakes that they made in a seven-game series, whereas, like, in the chess mask, maybe they have the advantage simply because they have more interesting pieces. Yeah, Tim Kato wrote an interesting piece for SB Nation about, like, the difference between depth and the size of their rotation. You know, their rotation is inevitably going to shrink, but they do have depth. It's really cool when in the playoffs a coach can go into the bag and be like, bang. Now, I picked right, and this guy had a big night because you weren't ready for Norman Powell

to have a 25-point night. or something like that. We haven't seen that from Norman Powell in a while. But they do have a lot of options off the bench. I just don't know who the third guy is for them. Pascal. You think so?

I don't know. I don't know if you saw Coach Tyler, but he isn't where to. That's true. We're going to keep talking about pre-playoff questions, but first a quick word from our sponsors. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Coca-Cola and PowerAid.

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so make sure you're ready. Refresh every round by heading to Walmart, picking up some Coca-Cola, Coke Zero Sugar, and Power Radio. All right, guys, I want to talk about

some of these hot teams and are they hot or not? Like, how hot is hot? How hot can it get in March? Is this the tinderization of group chat? Wow. I don't want to go down that path.

I don't want to swipe either way on any of these guys. But look, I want to talk about Portland. Zach Lowe had a big piece about them on ESPN today. and they're reliably the most entertaining team in the league right now. I think that they sort of like encapsulate the coolest parts about modern offense

without like winding the clock down and then foul hunting like the rockets do. Damon, CJ are out of their minds. Aminu, Harkless, and Evan are shooting well. Nerkich is Nerkich again. Do they need a plan C if their backcourt's not firing on all cylinders? And can they rely on Moe Evan and Aminu continuing to shoot well? Their plan C should, but probably is too early to say this, but I will say their plan C should be Zach Collins. Wow. What a shout.

So it should be Nurkich, right? Because he's the third guy. But I think Zach Collins is playing better. Talk to me about Zach Collins a little bit. I don't know. I'm going to try to do my best Jonathan Charks' impression here because he's obsessed with him. But I mean, he's just so much so nobody expected him to be this good so far. And he's kind of doing all the little things you want to see it from a guy in this first season. but the problem is that they're going to, they're having to use them more so than they probably even expect it. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing,

but I'm all here for... What's his game like? I mean, he's just like a stretch. He's a stretch for, he's a super athletic, his wingspan, and he's kind of just, he's still raw, but he's very much like he can hit the,

you know, the mid-range jumper and then also just defend in the way that's disturbing, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. To the opposing offense. So he's just been, I think he's been just a lot of fun to all. When I saw Zach Collins in Summer League,

I was like, old shit is going to get fired over this pitch. I think at one point, Jimmy Butler was like calling him out from the bench. It was like, who is this dude? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was one of house. I saw them play against Utah and Donovan Mitchell, like, ate his liver, like, in front of an entire gym at the Thomas and Back. It was pretty good. Yeah, it does speak to just, like, where Nirkich is at at this point.

He's just kind of, like, not as consistent as you need him to be if he's your third guy. He just kind of comes and goes. Especially in that game when he got dunked on by. LeBron, then just you couldn't hear from him again that game. Yeah. It just kind of disappeared. So I think Collins is their third guy on offense, but you're kind of otherwise relying on a collective, and I think that's the concern with this team.

Well, this is the sort of thrust of Zaks ESPN piece is the elimination of two-pointers that they've sort of gone through this season is their defense is obviously tightened up a lot, and a lot of that has to do with Nurkich, but that they've essentially turned this into an inside, outside game. I will be really interested to get to the end of the playoffs and see if, like, we maybe got a little addled on three-pointers. Like if a team that probably deserve to go a little farther in the postseason wound up hitting a cold streak in a playoff series and losing it because of that.

I'll be curious about that. Yeah, I mean, I've always pushed back slightly on this point just because of the math involved. Yeah, of course, yeah. But you're right. I think there are going to be some times where we run into potentially a Houston situation like last year where it's like, well, the Spurs defense is completely engineered to force you into the middle where you don't want to go. Exactly.

And if you know that in advance, like, you become predictable at the very least. Yeah, I don't think that this is going to affect Golden State or Houston or even, you know, Cleveland for that matter. But although it could. But it's teams that are just a little bit like if your regular season stuff starts to sputter a little bit, what do you do to get the baskets you need? That's just, I just curious. I think Portland's going to be dynamite. I mean, like, I can't wait to see them in the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, I think the other thing that I've heard some people talk about is just their back court is good, but their size.

you know, they're not like necessarily big. Yeah. You know, so if they come across like a maybe like John Wall, well, that would be in the finals, obviously. But just like if they come across like a more athletic, bigger back court that could get them into like out of rhythm. Like they're going to have to face Dejanta Murray who is not John Wall like in terms of reputation,

but he's a pretty monstrous defender already. Yeah, there's a really excellent NBA Reddit video that someone put up where it's CJ and Dame at dinner with Chris Haynes saying no more layups, no more layups. and then just the entire Houston Rockets team just going for layouts. That's amazing. 15 or 20, I'm not joking. It's a fantastic video.

But that's what they're facing because the defense has been good this year, but it needs to be on another level in the playoffs, which they haven't shown in the past. I feel like Portland has played well enough to sort of elevate themselves into a different tier of team than the following ones that we're going to talk about. But here's a selection of hot teams,

and I just want to know who you trust the most after we kind of get through the end of this. My question about the Sixers is, can they live with Ben Simmons? absence T-Gember. I mean, can you win a playoff series if, let's say, I mean, there is no answer for M-B'd, but let's say the packing the paint and trying to stop M-beat as much as possible is the defensive philosophy of whoever the Sixers play. What do you do with a guy who can't shoot beyond 14 feet? And can the Sixers just rely on Bellanelli and JJ to get their points?

And Dario. And Dario. And Big Dario. I mean, it's worked so far. This seems to be the popular just talking point with the Sixers, and I think it's the right one just because this is going to be their existential question not only in the playoffs, but going forward if Fultz doesn't come back, or they don't get a guy to fill that, what is it, fourth or fifth chair to spread the floor

around them. Sure. I'm kind of somewhere in the middle. Wait and see, I think, like you mentioned, what is the counter for Embed? You look at a lot of these teams, especially in the east. Is there any center? Yeah, like Miles Turner can't stop him. Right. And so can someone like stop him in the post? And,

if he flares out to the three-point line, is he going to hit enough shots in order to make them respectable? It might come down to something like that. Can it be just be on the level of LeBron? And as we saw in the All-Star game, not the best indicator of what's going to happen in the playoffs, but he can hang? And can he play 35 minutes a night in a series

where the games come fast and furious, right? Yeah, I mean, I think with Simmons, like, yes, it's what everybody loves to say is, you know, the game slows down in the playoffs, and then you're going to be forced to hit these mid-range jumpers, which obviously he has not been able to do or threes for that matter. But in terms of like expectations,

when I think of the Sixers, I'm like, okay, they're in the playoffs. That's already a win, right? I mean, maybe you can disagree. Not only are they in the playoffs, they're the fourth seed right now. Yeah. Right. Jayj is getting those New York Time features.

Yeah. What are we doing? I can do a feature on you. Oh, wow. I don't know if I'd want that. You've got some video synchrances, though. Yeah. I do, I do.

But I don't know. Like, I think that it's already, so it's like, okay, if they take whoever they play in the fifth seat, if they play the four, five, two, six, seven games. And even if it does come down to, oh, we can point to losing this series because maybe Ben's shot isn't there, then it's like, okay, that's a point of improvement going forward. And it goes back to finding the next fill in option.

Yeah. It's just, you know, it's an expectation, things for me, at least. The strange thing about where they're seated now is that there's a bunch of different variety, like, there's a bunch of scenarios in which the Sixth or Seventh or even eighth, and a first round exit is fine. it's hard to stomach for as good as the Pacers have been this season

I expect the Sixers to beat them in the playoffs Can we take a Sixers Chris temperature check right now? Like where are you with them? You know how like when you have a fever, right? And then so like do you have your fever?

And then the next day you feel enough better that you're like high on your own recovery and so you get in the car and go to work and then like midway to work you're like oh God I still have a fever. Yes. I meant oh God I still have a fever.

So I came down a little bit where I was like, it's time to, it's time to level out and stop, stop slacking so much about Markell Folds coming back. And then now I'm just like, they just consistently just like win games. And they win games in a way that they're not streaky. They're just like putting teams down. And they're beating teams that they're supposed to beat. So it's actually, it's rabid, I would say. I think I need a series of shots. Yeah, they had the easiest schedule down the stretch. And they've just been like, taking care of them. You know what I'm just saying like, in the sense of like, they're been taking care of those teams as opposed to like being like,

oh, we have to, you know, still having beat out there for four minutes up. Yeah, Denver, I mean, Denver should be, like, they're the opposite of Denver. Denver's scoring like 140 points a night and losing. Yeah. You know, and they're going to probably wind up, like having a new coach next year

and a completely, like, a largely different team because of it. All right, let's keep talking about some of these hot teams and seeing who we trust Utah, which is, man, like, they're 92 defensive ratings since the All-Star break is mouthwatering. They're insane. Their lineup is so good. I don't, I, I'm sure. sure Houston is going to beat Utah in the playoffs if they see each other. But man, I bet Houston

wishes they had an easier first round out. Yeah, I just came in to the office today listening to David Locke, who's the Utah, Utah Jazz, play-by-play guy and also does his own podcast network. But basically just talking up their defense and claiming, like, Rudy Gobert is a top 10 player. And it's not that far out of like the realm of possibility simply because of the impact he's had for this team. Like you look around at what they're doing. Like, Ray So Neal is shooting something something like 20% from three from the break. Ricky Rubio all of a sudden is just like a cog in this offense. And you just look at like what they've been able to do not only on defense, but like just

finding the best of some of these just like spare parts to put together enough of an offense. It's spruzian. And I don't, like you said, I don't know if they can hang with the rockets. I don't know if they can hang with the Warriors. But it's going to be really fascinating to see like just kind of the chess match between some of these guys. Yeah. And I think that they are definitely a nothing to lose team, which is, I think they're going

to come out and be ferocious at. against the rockets. And I also, you know, I mean, the only thing that really Houston has going for them

is there's no such thing as the Salt Lake City flu. Like, you know, that night life, you know. Yeah.

So I think that, I think that they'll be fine on the road against Utah. It's also not a hard trip to make. You know, I mean, like, yeah.

I think that, uh, I, I think that they will lose a game to Utah at least. Yeah. But I don't know. I think Utah's a year away.

And, and one, a, Rodney, who, Gordon Hayward guy away from really being a top four Western Conference team. Yeah. Well, I think the thing that I think about with them is, okay, so they're good on defense,

but what about how reliant they are on offense? And I think too much of the burden for my taste particularly falls on Donovan Mitchell still. So I, and I actually went and looked this up, and I think he's had his splits in terms of the teams he's played against. He's had his worst games in terms of like net rating and all that. I don't know how much talk you want to put on that against the Rockets. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so I thought that was really interesting.

And I'm like, okay, maybe they do something that kind of throws him off or in somewhere. But at the same time, it just goes back to like, you can't really have a rookie leading your offense in the playoffs. Maybe he kind of breaks that conventional thinking. But that's what I'm worried about the most. I do agree with you, though, that they'll probably steal a game in, like, in Salt Lake, for sure. Yeah, I think what they're doing with Donovan as their number one option is probably already in someone. way unprecedented. I don't have any stats to say that, but like the fact they're at 40 wins right now, they're probably going to push to what, like 45-ish by the end of the season. I think

would also be completely unprecedented if a rookie led an offense in one of the playoffs. It reminds me of when Kauai became what he, like, you know, Kauai was the second season was the, was when he really popped off. And then by 2011, or 2012, or 2012 was when he won the finals. 2012. So even there, that's a couple of years. I guess it's like more like Kauai being in terms of like the same around the same draft pick number and also like people being like oh I didn't know I had no idea

I had no idea but Kauai is was had an off like brought through an offensive game that I don't think anybody knew he had in his pocket you know whereas Donovan was a pretty high usage guy at Louisville I just don't think people thought it would necessarily translate right yeah I mean talking about usage

like I looked this up yesterday just because I was curious and him and Dennis Smith Jr. are having two of the 10 most high usage rookie seasons. Oh that's interesting yeah last year and Beads was in the top 10 too, his high usage. So, I mean... Well, yeah, exactly. But if you qualify by minutes,

these two guys that are having the highest usage of four rookie, at least in the top 10 for all seasons. So, I mean, that's pretty interesting, I thought. I want to wrap up by talking about the heat. The hottest team. The most inscrutable team. The most inscrutable team. James Johnson scores 39 one night,

scores four of the next. You know what I mean? Or whatever it was the next night. There is a really hilarious blog post. about, I think it's on the Heat SB Nation blog today, about how, like, the Heat's best play is the Kelly Olinic keeper.

Right. And there's actually, like, just some very convincing highlights when you watch them, but it is, like, watching a moose with its legs tied together roll towards the hoop. I don't know,

on any given night, there is one of nine dudes who could go off or cost them in the game. I do not want to see them in the playoffs. Nope. They won, like,

one of the games of the year, I thought it was like that that game they played the other night where it was like the against the nuggets against the nuggets which in terms of like straight up like methamphetamine basketball

but I don't know what to make of this team I don't know if I trust them I don't know if I'm I don't know how I feel about him yeah and Hassan White Side hasn't played in six games yeah Bam is like a like probably is Bam like a top six pick if you redraft the draft now I think I would

he's up there he's up there he's just he's making Whiteside kind of like okay you're there you're useful at times but we can play with Bam too. Obviously he's still young and raw, but he's been impressive. Yeah, Spoh has done a really good job this year and taking advantage of some of these kind of raw,

athletic five, four types who are probably just as tall as like your wing. And I do wonder, like, next year or two years from now, what this team is going to look like just because him, Justice Winslow, some of the other defensive players that they have here. This season, I remain unconvinced. It just feels like they've been taking advantage

of certain matchups, certain just, game plans and advantages in that route, but when it comes down to your horses, I just don't see it. Yeah. I mean, you're still playing Tyler Johnson too much and all that. To Chris' point,

I think the thing with them is you just don't want to see them because there's always a chance that, like, they could put together four games of, you know, Wayne Ellington, James Johnson, Draggett, and then Wade,

you know, and all have, like, amazing nights and then you're, suddenly you lost a series. I think that's a danger with them. It's funny. You should mention Dwayne Wade. He had some things to say for our boss,

this week on Twitter because Bill was talking about how with this increasingly depleted Boston roster, he does not really excited to see the heat in the playoffs.

I have to assume that all this Kyrie stuff like I think we'll see Kyrie in the playoffs, but this is a really banged-up Boston team right now and I wouldn't be surprised if they got into a dog fight

with the heat, like a six-game fight with them. Yeah, I don't know who Boston would want to see at this point. I'm a little worried. Yeah, they're in the tubs. The answer is the bucks.

For any of the teams in the Eastern Conference playoffs, the answer is the bucks. I don't know if Yonis has rolled his ankle or whatever, but even with Yonis right now, they just seem to have forgotten how to play basketball with each other. He's still so dangerous and so good to me that I just still would not want to have him barreling down, like, whatever team I'm rooting for. Well, that would be exciting to see.

We'll be exciting to see if Yonis can find this gear to, like, will the Bucks to any playoff wins. But right now, they're, like, slated to play against the Raptors. I don't think that they're going to catch the heat, honestly, the way that things are going. So I think that they're going to wind up playing Toronto. That's going to be a real test for them. All right, until next week for Apollo and Justin. This is Chris Ryan.

Take care. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good. They wash away my sanity. I don't even know what to say about this. I want to feel the thunder. I don't know the next word.