The Ringer NBA Show - The Knicks Are Back? Plus, NBA Festivus | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 21, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by discussing the Knicks' eight-game win streak and how sustainable their recent success is (2:09). Then it’s the first ever NBA Festivus, during which each of them talk about a couple NBA grievances they have (20:00). Finally, they open up the suggestion box and discuss a listener’s question (57:45). We want to hear from you! Email us at [e-mail] Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Issa Kwona and I'm Ryan Hunt and we co-host Stadio, a football podcast on the Ring of Podcast Network. If you like soccer or football, make sure you search for Stadio, a football podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I am Justin Barrier and joining me today, the new owners of the Phoenix Suns, we have Big Waz, Chairman of the Board, Rob Mahoney, second governor, whatever that is. Welcome, gentlemen. I can think of no greater reason for the season than giving us a $4 billion. enterprise free of charge, right? Like that seems like a responsible thing to do. You guys can afford it.

Your talent at Spotify now? Listen. Listen, happy for that dude who took those terrible layups for Michigan State in Garvin's time and his family. I hope he hires some competent people and powers the right people.

I think James Jones and them has done a great job. Monty Williams. You know, the job of the owner, as I tell people, is to empower people who know what they're doing and pay. So hopefully he can do those two things. Well, especially when you watch the Sons these days, they seem like a team that might need some work on the court too. Well, we'll see about all that.

Mateen Cleves, SVP of basketball ops. I'm for it. Yeah, bring the whole Flintstones back. Mo Pete, get him up in there. Bring everybody back. Well, we look forward to your decisions here once you guys officially enter the board. So on today's episode, we're going to get into some suggestion box. Keep sending in your replies to suggestion box, gc at gmail.com.

We are going to do an MBA Christmas stick. We're going to be doing MBA Festivis. So stay tuned for that. But first, I want to talk about the Knicks because I've been silently tracking them for a couple days, weeks now, just waiting for the bottom to fall out. But it doesn't seem like it's happening. And so I feel like we have to talk about it now. Waz, your New York Knickerbockers are now winners of eight in a row,

blew the Warriors off the core that the game is pretty much over in the first quarter last night. What the hell is going on here? And do you believe in New York yet again? First of all, let me just say this. Go New York. Go New York. Go. I think a couple of things is happening.

I read Fred Katz the other day about the streak. He said they've got the fourth best starting lineup as far as point differential is concerned in the NBA right now. I think that is a great sign. Their bench unit is blowing the doors off of people led by my man Jericho Sims and Hartenstein. They're manning a bench unit. that is dominating people on defense, very reminiscent of another Tibbs team, which is that 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls team, that their bench unit was led by Omar Ashik and another New York City legend, Taj Gibson.

Like, they were, you know, they had a bench unit that was given up. I want to say, like, a 77 defensive rating. They were, like, breaking records with that bench unit. And a lot of people, you know, they don't remember this. But that Bulls team was just. They were clobbering people on defense. Derek Rose is their best offensive player. They ended up having the best record in the league.

He quite stupidly got the MVP famously. But that team was incredible on defense, and their bench mob was a big point in that. And I think there's just good vibes, you know? These guys are playing for each other. They're playing unselfishly, which is the theme that I hit on all the time here because I'm an old fogey.

but, man, Barrett is start slow every single season. Like, literally he hasn't had a good start to a season his old career, but he's starting around into shape. Obviously, obviously, the Jalen Brunson signing might be the signing of the summer. Like, he's just fit in so seamlessly in both the leadership category and just what they needed on the court, right? just a toughness and just he's beating people. I don't know, man, like it's all coming together for them.

And even Julius Randall, I watched him hoarse Draymond Green last night on numerous occasions where he just put him on his back and said, come take a ride, little guy. It's crazy watching these guys play right now. It's pretty fun, actually. Yeah, I think that's the important part. Like for people like us, it's fun to watch the Knicks. again. Like this is a team that's impressive and admirable to watch. And a lot of that

starts with the fact that they are committing on defense in a way that they were not earlier in the season. And some of that is Tom Tivodeau pulling the right levers and getting some very tibsy guys into the rotation. Like it would not surprise me if by the end of the season, like Quentin Grimes is leading the league in total minutes played.

Like he has just become that kind of guy for this team. But also it's just the level of buy-in. It's something that's so easy to admire, that's so easy to respect. It's guards, chasing rebounds. Like, I just don't think we've seen any other team show as much improvement from the beginning of the season to now on defense in terms of basic execution, basic commitment,

second effort kind of stuff than the Knicks. And it's made them so much more fun to watch. I cannot express to you how much of a drag this team was to watch in the first 10 games and the complete contrast in seeing them play now where they believe it. Like, they believe that they can play and they can win this way. And that goes, that goes such a long way. Yeah, I think the key is none of the old Tibbs guys are in the rotation anymore. Like all those players that was mentioned from the 2011, 12 Bulls, they're no longer

suiting up for the Knicks, which you couldn't have said as recently as a couple weeks ago. Taj Gibson is gone. Derek Rose is on the bench. He's already taking goodbye tours in Chicago. Like credit Tibbs or I guess maybe credit the front office for finally reaching Tibbs to basically be like, you need to change things up. You need to let the young guys play out. there. And like you look out on the court, it's like it looks like it makes sense. Like the starting

five, it you no longer grown because you have like an Evan Fournier sticking there for some reason and they have to make up those minutes with the bench and quitting Grimes is like hitting threes. I don't know like how viable that is for an entire season, although he has about 70 games worth of data. Yeah. Solid shooter. Yeah. And so it's like it's not perfect, but it just makes a lot of sense, which you couldn't say about the Knicks for pretty much most of the. the Tibbs reign, very least since the playoff appearance. And so I am optimistic, I guess, whether or not I'm buying it long term, I guess, is the real question, because they are six in the east right now, which puts them ahead of some other teams that I think we expected to be

a little bit better, the Hawks, et cetera. Like, I guess, was, like, how much are you buying this? Do you think they're viable as like a top six East team or is this more, probably ultimately a playing team still. I think what's important about the streak is that the streak, it already has the name capital, T, capital, S. Streeks sanity. I think what's most important about the streak is that players need to see success doing things the way the coach is asking them to do it. And so it's one thing to be like, oh, we're a floorburn's team. We're, you know, we're a mud in the dirt and fingers in the dirt type of team. We, you know, it's one thing to say that and to ask guys to do that to little or no results. When you win, when you succeed in the way that the coach is

asking you to succeed, that's when you get buying. And that's when I think you'll see a consistency in the effort they're putting towards their defense, as Rob mentioned. So yeah, I think once these guys believe that they can guard people for real doing things the way Tibbs has asked them to, I think it's great. And, you know, another part of it is, again, guys like Sims, guys like Grimes, they're not established dudes. They haven't gotten big contracts in the NBA. They're making a name for themselves. So they're incentivized to go out and kill themselves on a night-to-night basis. And also, they're young guys so they can do it, right? We're going to get in. into some of my gripes during our Festivist segment.

But, like, honestly, I think part of why AD got hurt, he can't go balls to the wall every single game. He's just not there. One, he's just a fragile dude, too. He's damn near 30. He's not the type of guy who can do that on a game-to-game basis. These under 23 guys, yeah, yeah, yeah, run them ragged. They can do it.

And they're believing. And I think that's what we're going to see from the Knicks. Why you got to call out us fragile dudes like that? You know, I'm a soft guy. Leave me alone. I'm talking about physically, not emotionally and mentally. We know we like softness. We love to tap into that side of ourselves and our masculinity, Rob.

I promise you. Okay. I just wanted to clear that up. My takeaway from your whole thing there was basically you could run the young guys 40 minutes out there because they have fresh legs. You basically just need to keep giving tips more. the Tim's model. But it's working. It's absolutely working.

And like that's where the parameters of your question are important, Justin. Because if you're asking me, can the Knicks be a top six team this season? I think the answer to that is yes. And that is the level of commitment they've shown so far, the fact that they're winning with things like rebounding. Like they're just a dominant rebounding team. That's something that's very easy to replicate. Maybe the most replicable skill.

Is this a team that I trust as like a third? three-year model. Not really. Is this a team that I see a path to them becoming a championship contender? I don't really know short of like a huge swing for a big star. Yeah. So that's where like we get hung up, right? And we talk about like what this team ultimately needs and why sometimes we sound pretty down on them. It's all about the duration and the extent of what we're talking about. Yeah, they can be a good playoff team this year. There's no doubt about that. Can the Knicks get to a team that wins a playoff series two years in a row.

I'm saying get to the second round twice in a row once. That's a good outcome. Before we start doing championship in this with them, get out the first round a year or two in a row. And then we can start talking

about this other stuff. Yeah, devil's advocate, you could say, just showing competency might matter more in a market like New York than it would elsewhere. Where it's like maybe someone

can convince themselves like, oh, Grimes is, young, Sims is young. We have enough here. If I just come in and add what I do to this existing core, like, we will be a lot better. But I think, Rob, you kind of hit on the key point there. I do wonder, let's say if their goal is just waiting desperately for a start to come and want to play in New York, like, are there any things you would do in the immediate before this year's trade deadline to increase your chances this year? Like, are you making a short-term move? Especially because you made all these trades during the draft for these draft picks. I don't know what

you're going to do with them other than just sit on them and watch them mature 5% every year, I guess, you hope. Would you reach for a guy like a Kuzma or something like that or whoever it is that could add to what you already have in order to make maybe like a mini run this year? I think you would need to be pretty certain about that player's level of buy-in, both in the way you play and in just the very fact of being there. Like say you trade for Kyle Kuzma, for example, and he, as he's made pretty clear, like really wants to be in California and he just doesn't really feel like being a Nick,

I'm just saying all this hypothetically. Like that'd be kind of a bummer in this rotation where you're getting, you know, you're getting like Deuce McBride digging in on every possession and like playing his heart out. And then you have this version of Kyle Kuzma that doesn't even want to be there. Like that can be a drag on the entire situation.

So you need to be pretty sure they want to be there. The fact that you are New York and you are the Knicks, I think that's attractive to a lot of players. But you got to be certain, and the chemistry of this is so delicate. Like, you finally have triangulated a really nice balanced offense between Randall and Barrett and Brunson. I'd be very careful about upsetting that. Like, that is kind of where you are right now. I would let that ride and see what it is and see if you can settle and kind of crystallize some of what you've built.

Before I would look at, oh, we need to make even a significant swing for a really good player. You're talking about it like it's the Earth's global temperature. You just really need to pay attention to make sure you do everything right here. But that's the thing, though, like, because the fit isn't so clean on this team, it's not as if these parts fit seamlessly like a puzzle, right? It's, they're making it work. And there's some complications to that, right? And so if you tweak it or tinker with it even a little bit,

Rob's right, you can upset the balance. This isn't a perfectly matched up, synced up roster. Like, you can't say that enough when you talk about, you know, where guys like Randall and RJ like to operate, which we've mentioned trillions of times. And even to a certain extent, Brunson. Brunson likes to mix it up in the paint, right? Where these guys like to operate and how they're making that work,

you know, it could be complicated by bringing in a Kuzma who wouldn't be happy. But although I will say this about Kuzma, man, And he's been a freaking consummate pro throughout the duration of his career, right? Like he was this 20 point per game score or whatever, as inflated as that number was. The kind of team changes around him dramatically. He turned himself into a junkyard dog player next to LeBron, expert cutter, crashing the boards, running on the break, guarding the hell out of people, right? Washington has called for a different set of, you know, responsibilities for Kuzma, and he's adapted to that.

So, you know, Kuzma personally, a guy who I like, whose game I like for its adaptability, I don't know that he would be some problem, child, because he had the brave, horrible New York winners. And I say that as a New York City expat. But I don't know that I want to upset the Applecar. And, you know, I just like what these guys are doing right now. now collectively. Can I float a hypothetical by, or really an either-or scenario? Let's say by the end of January, I'm going to tell you three things that are true right now, and you tell me which of them are most likely to continue through the end of January. One, RJ Barrett is hitting jumpers, hitting 35% of his threes right now. Is that a thing that can continue through the end of January?

Two, Julius Randall's defensive effort and focus. He is still bought in. He's still playing hard. He's still defending. And three, Knicks opponents are making 26% of their uncontested threes. Is that a thing that can continue? Courtesy,

R.L. Pal, Dan Devine, for that, who had a great write-up about the Knicks and their defense on Yahoo. But which of those things do you think can continue or would you expect to continue?

I think RJ's shot is going to continue to be average, which is damn good for the rest of the stuff that he provides for the team. Like, 35% is a, average NBA three-point shooter with when you consider what he does on the ball and just whatever

he's that's good for him I think he continue to be average. It's his career number by the way. So it's doable. Yeah. So long as again, he's getting his minutes and the results are bearing out in a nice positive way. I think Julius Randall can continue to play hard. We saw him do it two years ago. It's not like it's never happened.

Obviously, the shot. for the Knicks is going to run out at some point here. It's just unsustainable that NBA shooters not named Russell Westbrook could shoot 26% on wide open 3s. So, yeah, I think the three point luck thing, which I think is the point Rob was trying to get to, will not continue. But I think, yo, man, the type of, that Golden State game again, like, they were just so much more engaged than Golden State. And I brought up the Draymont thing because that's like a thing that Draymond. takes pride in, like, guys can't just back him down. You know, he came in as a tweener guy, undersized guy, and whenever he would go in the game,

that's what most Biggs would try to do. They would try to move him and put him underneath the basket. It's like a Draymar Green staple that he doesn't let guys post him up, say, for, like, Yokic and, like, it's like two guys, Boogie cousins and Yokic, right? And so to watch Julius Randall just abusing him as if he was some little first year, punk who hasn't gotten his NBA body yet. To me again, that just speaks to the energy level. Where did you rank him in the top 100 on our website, Rob?

Was it 91? Julius Randall? Yeah. You see this as if I have the sole ownership of that list. That it's strictly my jurisdiction on where he goes or doesn't go. You have a quarter equity. Yeah. I do have some equity.

Yeah, I can see Randall. He looks engaged, man. I mean, who's to say long term? But like, I could see it lasting throughout the year. And I guess that's the point with wondering whether or not they can make a short-term move that doesn't really affect their future one way or another. Where it's like, I'm looking at the standings right now and like, yeah, the Hawks we expect to be better. Maybe the heat get healthy and all of a sudden they're cracking this top six. But everyone else is really soft in the east.

I mean, the Pacers could easily go the other way. The Raptors are really struggling like now. And then you just get into the drags of the league. So, like, the Knicks, surprisingly enough, have an opportunity. It's just, what a crazy season this is. We're probably two to three weeks ago. We were talking about, like, the Knicks, their disaster, what can they do next? And now all of a sudden, we just don't want to mess with their precious chemistry that they've meticulously built over the, over the wind streak here.

It's a really, really wild season. That's a credit to them in a really chaotic conference and in a really chaotic season on top of it. Like, what does it take to take advantage of that opening? it takes diligence, it takes commitment, it takes buy-in on this kind of stuff that we're talking about. They're doing the exact right thing and most importantly,

they're doing the hard things. They're doing the things that NBA players don't always want to do. And they're doing it at a really high level to a point where not only are they cleaning up like the blowbyes and defending the really simple stuff. Like they look really solid

against pretty complex actions. So I really want to make a transition involving Bing Bong and like Ding Dong Christmas time is here, but I'm just going to let, you guys know as a gift to all of you, I'm not going to do it. Thank you. I don't know that you get credit if you still mention it. You still implanted the seed in my brain.

Well, you know, that's how we hedge here. All right. So I'll say this. I think for the longest time, I had reputation in the ringer offices is the person who didn't want to do the holiday theme stick. And somehow I have just completely gone over to the dark side because here we are celebrating our first NBA festivists in which we are going to,

as if you've seen Seinfeld know, air some grievances. We're not going to do any feats of strength. We're not going to take our shirts off and fight. Although if anyone wants to pay for it, I am more than welcome to see Isaiah and Rob go at it. Patreon only. Patreon exclusive.

Yeah, group chat after dark explicitly on that one. I think that's an only fan's exclusive. So, all right, we each want some grievances we would like to air as we do during Festivus. Who wants to start here? Rob, Rob, you seem like you have some gripes. I mean, I would love to, but I feel like I'm taking it away from you as the most gripey person that maybe I know. You are the most aggrieved person in NBA Twitter. This is your time.

I call those opinions. Oh. Okay. All right. I'm sorry that I just have strong takes on. things. Do you want me to start? Because I probably have one that's going to upset all of you. I think I want to let you cook off the top. Okay. This one's going to be difficult coming off of last night's slate. And recently, just because it feels like Nicola Yokic every time I look up, he's putting

up a stat line that you've never seen before. To the point where I didn't even realize he had 13, 13, 13, 13 last night. And it's a headline on ESPN.com. It must be a slow newsday. But at the very least, these things just keep happening. He's playing really well. The nuggets are currently best in the West. So I go in this saying that like, I almost think that Yokish might be playing his best basketball to date, which is saying something. I am a, I am a Nikoliyokic fan, first

and foremost, but what I keep hearing over, okay. I love Yokic. I remember telling Nuggets people when he was just taking off, like how much I enjoyed watching him over Anthony Davis because I had to watch Davis day to day, but Yokic just like the past he was making, just

exhilarating, etc. There's the, okay, so, There's like In the grievances Every ever Ever stop Like will your hate Don't get me down

That path I feel like that That's a complete myth that's been built I have no issue with The Pelicans No I have an issue with people Thinking that the Pelicans

are like the best team in the world This is why I wanted you to go first No this is why I wanted you to go first You haven't even gotten to your grievance And you've aired four other grievances It's grieveception. Yeah. All right.

So Yokic, let's just start there. Let's focus. He's been talked about now as an MVP, not frontrunner per se, but he's definitely creeping up there. You could definitely see people toying with the idea of that take. And so I'm a little miffed

because this guy would be winning his third straight MVP, and the list of players with three or more is eight. It is the absolute best players in NBA history. I just don't think that we should be talking about Yokic in the MVP conversation again, or let alone giving it to him until he wins a title. I just like, you got to win something.

We can't just keep rewarding this guy for regular season basketball. And then when it matters most, he doesn't show up, but he just hasn't broken through there. I realize he's had injuries on his team, all this other stuff. But like, I think at a certain point, we need to start holding him accountable for some of the broader context. For what happened in the playoffs last year? Oh, you're the last one who should be talking about this, considering that you give all NBA out for guys with career, like, just based on their career averages. No, it's just like, it's wild to me that, like, we're just, we're going to give it to him again when he hasn't won on the biggest stage.

That's what I'll say. I mean, first, I don't know that anyone's going to give it to him again. Like, he's playing very well. He is a candidate. Yes. He's not being given the MVP. He's earning MVP consideration via his play on the court. But yes, sorry, go ahead, Rob.

I interjected here. No, exactly where I was going. But more importantly, like, this is a regular season award? What are we talking about? So I will say this. The only thing that Justin has in his favor is that when Janus won his two MVPs, everybody was like, fuck that.

We're not giving him another MVP unless he went to championship. That was kind of the consensus around it, for whatever reason, which I think it's because we just have like a favorable opinion of overweight athletes. Even though Yolkits just slimmed down, like we just look at Yolkich's nice, cute and cuddly, right? And so we don't come down. down as hard on him as we did to people like LeBron and Janus, or even, I got to say, even Luca Donchage to a certain extent, it's like, all right, okay, you're not a cute and cuddly story anymore. You got to go out and you got to show and prove, right? And so there's

that. But as I was mentioning with Derek Rose's narrative-driven MVP about the humble Chicago a hometown kid. He's doing it for his hometown. He barely speaks to anybody. Oh, he's so great. He's so much less bombastic than that arrogant bastard. LeBron James, who had the nerve to switch teams in free agency. Oh, we got to give it to D. Rose,

even though he was like the fifth best player in the league if that year, right? What I love about the NBA is we don't do this narrative-driven shit. If you have- Vote based on what Zach Lowe's says, yeah. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Now we throwing darts at the great Zach Lowe. I don't know. It's not a dart at Zach. It's just that nobody actually has an opinion and they just follow what like the trendsetters do. Like if someone's like, oh, actually Yokic is the guy because of that, everyone just follows suits because I will say this. The last time we had an even kind of narrative driven MVP was Russell Westbrook and you could easily argue that he was deserving of.

of the award. Like, if Yoke, I don't think Yolk is the MVP right now. Just to be clear, it's Yonis, in my opinion. However, if the guy plays at an MVP level, he should deserve consideration for the award.

It's not about, oh, he didn't win the championship, oh, he hasn't done it on the biggest day. Like, he's playing, like, Nuggets guys are missing games left and right. The one constant is him. They're number one in the West. I get that the West is top C-T. turvian weird right now. But to say that he's out of contention because he hasn't won a championship,

I just don't think that's fair. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm completely in the tank for the Nuggets and I picked him to win the championship this year. There's nothing to do with that at all. You're kind of making my point, though, because I think part of it is the past two that he won. I don't know that he was such an overwhelming favorite that. Wow. Yeah, like I think it has become more of an eye of the beholder certain thing. Like, I think you could have credibly argued for Janus. And then, like, maybe, like, certain injuries happen that allowed Yokish's case to rise to the fore in certain instances. But, like, I guess that's what I'm saying. If we're saying that there are, there is so much competition, if Tatum is just as is credible of a candidate, if Yonis

is just as credible of a candidate, I am going to lean toward Janus and Tatum over Yokic. And maybe that's voter for Cheek. I'll, I'll admit it. But, I also think part of it is like at a certain point, like we can't keep rewarding someone when they haven't proven it on the biggest stage. It's just a weird argument to make about a guy who's been a like an balls out playoff performer. Like he's been incredible every time he's in the playoffs. Yeah.

That's the key. This isn't like, you know, early career, Demarder Rosen who just, I think he's been fine defensively. He's been fine. That's the fine. He's been good enough to win. He's been good enough to win. Again, we're talking about, hold on, hold on, hold on. Why are we talking about the playoffs?

Why are we talking about? He's the thing about Yonis, too, as the previous example. Janice was playing worse in the playoffs. He was playing worse than the standard that he set in the regular season. I'm talking about before that championship that he won against Phoenix. He was playing worse in the playoffs. And it was looking ugly. It was these air balls.

And he's running into defenders. And people are like, maybe this guy doesn't know how to play against the most locked in defenses and he's only doing this in the regular season against, you know, a bunch of Knicks and Sacramento Kings to bad his stats. That was sort of the idea. Yokets in the playoffs, to Rob's point, is arguably even better. He shoots more. He scores more.

He's better in the playoffs. So, yeah, I'm with Rob. They go from, so they go from like the 24th defense where they are now to like what, the standard of like the 20th defense when we're supposed to fucking reward this guy. Like, congrats. Like, we're splitting hairs. Like, I think that's my overall point. It's like it, it is tougher than ever before to award someone the MVP in part because we just know so much, right?

There are just stats that people come up with often to buoy the case of Yokic, I'll point out, where it's just like, I didn't even know these things fucking existed, but we're just like, all right, I guess this works for him. But I think at some point we have to draw a line. Eight players in NBA history with three or more MVP's. All of them have won the title. At the point where your argument is that math is biased to you, I think you've gone off the rails. I think the simple math is my favorite where the nugs are 24th on defense. This is Justin Stugat's barrier. We're stepping into the circle.

And here's another thing about Yokic, right? I don't think he's even monopolizing possessions in the way that he can, in the way that I would actually, quite frankly, like to see him do. So if he started doing that, these numbers, it wouldn't even, like, it's ridiculous. It wouldn't even be a question who was winning this MVP. He's in this conversation while being probably outside of Steph Curry, the most democratic, egalitarian superstar

that there is today. He doesn't hold the ball all day. He lets people cook and he's still hitting you with these whatever you want. Advanced metrics, your traditional triple double stuff, whatever the hell you want,

however you want to slice it, this guy's playing at a top three level. Come on, man. We got a galitarian. We got Yokish defense. We're getting to the blogger's triple. double here. Yochich is for the people. Yes. Yokinj is for the people. Yokinj is about the proletariat. That's right. I have a splinter grievance.

Okay. Yes, please take us away from this. Who is leading the league in scoring right now? Is it Luca? It's not Luca. Is it Steph? It's not Steph. Oh, I don't know. Who is it? It's a guy who I am mystified why we do not talk about him more. and that's our good friend Joelle Embed. And I say that as a collective we as a larger media body,

and this is tied into the Yokish thing where, Justin, you're right, Yokic is getting a lot of MVP buzz right now. He's getting a lot of conversation. All I see from Joel is one of the most dominant players in the league this season, who has made a staggering difference for the Sixers virtually, regardless of who is on the floor around him, who's injured, who's in and out of the lineup. And I just see nothing.

Like, I don't see coverage. I don't see conversation. This is where I wear my hypocrite hat, Rob. Do it in the playoffs. I don't give a shit. Do it in the playoffs. Oh, come on. Jesus.

I don't give a shit. This guy, he consistently plays worse than the playoffs. Joel and B. always is worse than his regular season for him in the playoffs. That's every single year he's doing that. And I'm not going Ben Simmons with it like he did on JJ's show. where he's like, well, did we talk about Joel not playing that well? Which, by the way, my favorite podcast appearance of every podcast.

I'm talking about Mike White on NPR. Like, I'm talking about in life, Ben Simmons on the JJ Reddick podcast, basically defending himself. I was happening right now. It's hilarious. But, yeah, like, Joelle, like, Joel doesn't play good in the playoffs. Not, I shouldn't say he doesn't play well. He plays well for the state. standard of NBA centers.

He does not play up to his, his, his, um, capabilities in the playoffs. So that's why I'm a little bit more like, yeah, miss me with Joelle. I need to solicit the group chat fans out there. I need someone to go back and get the old footage, the classic John Kerry flip-flopping meme of him windsurfing one way and then windsurfing the other way. And I need us to Photoshop was his head on that. I need to, I need the world to understand what was just did on this podcast. Like, why is he not a leading MVP?

candidate himself. Well, he led the league in scoring last year and we didn't give it to him because Yokic led the league in Schmurgers or whatever the fun of people came up with to buoy his candidacy. No, I mean, I think the problem is people are probably just tired of the Sixers. It's a drag to talk about the Sixers. It's a drag oftentimes to watch the Sixers, although their overtime win against the Raptors either night was pretty thrilling, I guess, at times.

And like they just keep talking shit. Like he just threw an elbow at the Raptors on the way out. Basically like they don't want to win. They just want to defend the best player is really hard. Like I do think to a certain extent like Joel's shtick gets old, especially if he's not going to win at the highest levels. And there's a sense that his team is underachieving. Like there was great expectations about the moves that Mori finally put together for this team.

And, you know, they finally have people. that makes sense and wings that can make an open three and deep people up and blah blah blah blah blah and it was supposed to be this fantastic season and that just has not been the case of course james hardens missed a lot of time and bead you know recovering from an injury that we basically had no idea about from the off season and so there's a sense that they're underachieving right and so i understand why people are just like yeah i'm good but if they're underachieving and then you look under the hood and you see this guy who almost single-handedly has them as a top-five defense, almost single-handedly

makes them one of the best foul-drawing teams in the league, who's been more efficient than Yokic in the post, who's been one of the best mid-range scorers in basketball, I feel like he's the thing holding it together, you know? Like, for any gripe you could have about the Sixers, whether it's how they're constructed, how they're coached, how they play, they've had injuries, hard and a maxi of both in a significant time. Like, Joel is the thing that is making. making that team good. And they are good. Like, I keep wanting to quit them. And then you look up and, for example, they have a dramatically better, like, a point differential than the Nuggets, a team who I think a lot of people feel really good about right now, like the direction Denver is

headed. And by the numbers, Philadelphia has been flat better. Like, that's just what's happening. And Joelle Embed is the reason for it. Respect. The game's missed, too. We should point out, like, he misses so much time that it's hard to advocate him ultimately advocate for him ultimately and like I'm often worried that I missed like a three game stretch where he just sat out because he needed the backiotomy or something at a certain point again to my overall point with Yokic like it is splitting hairs and often the case with Joel is he never plays 70 games so it's tough to really make the defense room I'll say that I'm even fine with I'm even fine with that like if you want to bring him up and then disqualify

him based on eventual games played. I'm fine with it. But like he needs, he needs to be a fixture in these conversations. Okay. Rob, uh, was.

Um, honestly, uh, my, my first grievance, which was not like so hyper specific to players, but just being generally bumped out about the injuries. Uh,

Steph and AD who were playing at MVP levels going out, both of them about to probably, miss a month. And part of this too, why I'm feeling bummed out about it, is talking to a lot of casuals as I do about my freaking job. And this sense out there that, you know, and yes, this is an extremely casual take that the NBA regular season doesn't matter, right?

Like, normal people just can't, they're just like, I turned on T&T last night and Jamal Murray's not playing for, whatever freaking reason and we don't know who's going to play when. We don't even know when these games are airing. We don't know how much these games are impacting anything for the future, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, just hearing that stuff all the time is whatever. It's just what you hear.

But honestly, like, now that when I don't, I'm not, I don't feel compelled to watch the Warriors play, right? Like, I don't feel compelled to watch the Lakers play. I have to essentially on my league pass stuff. It's just like, all right, young guys, basically the Pacers. Which young guys am I interested in? And, you know, whenever the good teams happen to match up with each other, and I think the injury stuff, man, it's really a bummer.

Like you mentioned Hardin and Maxi and all of these consequential guys on teams that we think are supposed to matter. It's really tough with this injury stuff. And, you know, I'm not going to say this for the last time. I really think we need to do something about the NBA regular season. I really do feel that way. So are you aggrieved by the league office for the length of the season? Yes.

By Darvin Ham for playing Anthony Davis too much. By AD for trying too hard. Like, who, I need some direction here. So I'm more aggrieved by the league office. Like, I'm one of the people that's most down on Adam Silver that there is. I know he's like a great liberal, allegedly liberal progressive person, allegedly. But I just think he's not been an excellent commissioner. I just don't.

And some of this stuff is corraling the NBA owners. Like, that's part of your job, right? Like, as middle management for their operation, part of your job is corraling these guys and being like, look, there are certain things we need to undertake to make this product more appealing. And, you know, the part of, like, the schedule is ridiculous. Like, we want to see AD play the way that he played.

But when you're playing three games in five months, nights, like, and drink at home again, people, but like this doesn't happen in something like professional soccer. You're not going to play three incredibly grueling matches in five nights or two in a row. Like, this is, this is not a thing. Everybody understands that there needs to be rest and recovery for these guys to play at their peak. And then when guys are of a certain age, It's just literally impossible to play 82 games as hard as you can at the level you're capable of playing at, right? Without eventually getting to this AD stuff. And so, yeah, man, I'm not going to stop beating this drama.

Like, I don't think we need 82 games. The fact that people don't even think about this shit outside of us who, let's face it, we're maniacs about the NBA, that people don't even think about this. So, like, what are we starting this season at that time, at that date for? And even if we do start it, then, why don't we have a schedule where these games are more spread out and make them a more scarce product and make them more consequential? Like, these games need to have consequences when, like, literally, this is a game the next day. It's like, you know, I watched Golden State get smoked by the Knicks. And if you're a Warriors fans, like, yeah, whatever, I got the next game. you know, like immediately, right?

Like, I listen to, you know, I listen to a decent amount of football podcast, right? And I want to say up until Wednesday, they're still obsessing about the shit that happened on Sunday. And I get it. Football is an extreme case of how, like, artificially limited

the product is, right? Like, football is really extreme. I get that. But there's just something to the churn of the regular season. I think just they need some vision on this, man. I'm going to love it and watch it no matter what.

I'm going to watch the Pistons play the Hornets because I'm a sicko. I'm a psychopath, right? But like normal people can't just grab onto this stuff. Yeah, on the one hand, I'm really excited for whatever mid-season, early season tournament they come up with. But I'm starting to become increasingly more afraid of what happens around that tournament. First of all, you need to incentivize the players enough that they give a shit during this tournament that the tournament package actually works. But I wonder what's going to happen to everything around that. The games before that, the games after it, the games in February, around the trade deadline,

the games in April, like, are we going to shut players down more just to make this one little stretch way more exciting? And does that add even more complications to the issue you're talking about? Because, like, I don't think it's even casual fans even more. I think it's like regular fans. It's even me. Like, on the one hand, I think this is one of the best regular seasons in recent history. I think every night you could turn it on

and you could find a really good game. To your point about the Hornets and us, it's not just us being freaks. Hornets Kings was a legitimately thrilling game. Like the Hornets looked good again and I'm like, I'm excited to see more of a lamello ball. But I think it's tough when all of a sudden you turn out in a game.

It's like, oh, this guy's not there. Oh, Booker's out tonight. Oh, this guy's getting rest. This guy's, it is becoming a little daunting, I think, even for us. Yeah. It's not a great season, structure, you know?

And there's lots of things you can cut down. Obviously, you want players to be available. You need a way to shorten the schedule while still maintaining revenue. And I would argue that teams are leaving a lot of money on the table as it is by having like 70% attended regular season games in the thick of the season. Like, what if every game was actually a sellout and not just a reported sellout, which is what teams often do, but an actual sellout? And honestly, one model on the opposite end of the grievance spectrum, like,

credit to the league for doing this like home series scheduling this year. Well, you'll see we're going to play two games in Minnesota Monday and Wednesday this week. And we've seen some of the benefit of that, like with New Orleans and Phoenix, for example, where you get a really competitive matchup. And guess what? They're going to play again in a couple days. That's the version of the NFL model for me that the NBA can adopt is you're condensing the schedule, you're condensing the travel, you're focusing these games and these matchups in a way that to your point was like we're going to be talking about this matchup for 10 straight days because these teams are going to play three times in that stretch. Like that's fun. Like that is an engaging

and consistent product. I love the idea of that, but I don't think it's worked as well as when the Suns and the Pelicans like it did recently. In part because if a guy is out, if like James Hardin and Tyrese Maxie are out for the series against, let's just say the Hawks, like you're not going to get that game again later in the season when those guys are back in. And so you've kind of missed the window for that. And so I almost wonder if of all the absences almost make that worse, you know? I could see it. I guess I see that is unavoidable, frankly.

Like, guys are going to miss games to a certain extent. You want to minimize it to the best that you can. And yes, that doesn't make it better for, you know, a fan in a city who really only wants to see LeBron James this season, if LeBron's going to miss the one tour that the Lakers have through the city. That part is tough. But I don't know how to steer around that per se. Man, there's enough stars in the league. I don't think that's a thing, right?

Like, if you really want to see stars, like, if you miss LeBron, you get to catch Jha, you get to catch Janice, you get to catch Luca, you get to catch Yokic, Justin, you get to catch, you know, a bevy of stars if you miss LeBron. So I wouldn't be too worried about that. But yeah, I know that I'm beating a dead horse or a broken drum or whatever the metaphor is. but the regular season, the churn is overwhelming. Yeah. Well, someone just paid $4 billion for a franchise,

so I don't think we're going to get any games taken away. Oh, I'll get into that. Do you want to do it right now? Yeah, that's another one of my grievances. The new owner sort of honeymoon period where we have to talk about how the guy made his money. And because it's just what it is. Like rich guy pays a lot of money for this thing. How is he rich?

And it's like, yeah, he's a billionaire mortgage lender. And then we just move on. And then we just move on, right? Like in the midst of a fucking housing crisis here in L.A. And just in California broadly, we just do the billionaire, just honeymoon spree, buys the team for $4 billion. Yeah, he's a billionaire. mortgage lender with no commentary, no thought, no nothing.

Just we're glad the racist, misogynist, sexist guy is gone. Now we've got a billion hair mortgage lender. It's just, this shit just makes me sick. And I know normal people don't care or don't want to have to consider these things or think about it. But it's just like, you know, while we're turning deifying these fucking rich guys, we ain't got to do it in the NBA yeah they got a new owner he says he's going to spend

he says he's going to do this let's move on that's just that's just that's just a personal wise grievance right I mean it really does pay to not be Robert Sarver like that in itself is such a virtue that it's incredible yeah um should I go

yeah what you got okay prepare yourself um so obviously I watch a lot of NBA games and I find myself these days having to mute the TV at any time a sideline midgame interview comes on. You know the feeling you get when you're watching something with your parents back in the day

and maybe like some nudity comes on the screen and your skin just crawls? That is how I feel watching some of these sideline reporters, all of whom are the ones I know are great people, consummate professionals, But the gig is such shit because all they have to do is try to extract useless information from coaches who are not going to give them any insight that is not relevant to any viewer because it doesn't add anything to the program. And so maybe it's PTSD from having to do the same job, just not with

a camera in my face. But just trying to watch that process just makes me so goddamn uncomfortable that I'd literally cannot watch it or listen to it anymore. The only good one I would say is Stephanie Reddy, now of TNT, who asks such basic questions because she's not trying to overdo it and impress the coach or the viewer with their brilliant, like, well, I noticed that you have 21% offensive rebound percentage. And what does that mean for your moving offense? And yad, yeah, yeah.

It's just more like, hey, you're scoring a lot. Like, what's led to that? and you actually get a decent response. But the whole process is broken. I think we need to just do away with sideline interviews. I don't know why it's still happening. And at least for me, I am no longer engaging with the product.

So you're just trying to destroy jobs. That's what I was going to say. Literally what I was going to say. Middle management barrier of rears its ugly head again. Here we go again. Cutting jobs, trying to cut costs at all costs. Yeah, the sideline thing is bogus. It's been that, I think, you know,

I like a few other people in the media was slightly annoyed by how much fawning people did for pop for, like, dissing people and being an asshole to them during those interviews. It was unprofessional and stupid when he was doing it. However, it did shine a light on what a farce the whole situation is. It's like, these guys can't tell you what they're trying to do just as a matter of like they're trying to win the game.

Like, right? So you're not getting anything out of it. And I think we could kick to those people and they could give us interesting tidbits that, you know, the guys that are on the broadcast call don't have. No problem. But the actual back and forth with a coach is stupid. And guess what? Like even people like Steve Kerr, who is like the most genteel, he worked in the

media. So he's always going to try to be like really accommodating. Curran giving you shit. And it's Steve Kerr. And he wants to like engage these people and make it like more like a back and forth. And he understands the job and all of that. He's a really, he's a real empath that way. And even Steve Curran giving you shit. So yeah, I think Justin's right about this. It's an unquestionably hard job for all the reasons you guys laid out. Like just hard to get good information. It's not a coincidence that Stephanie Reddy is very good at it. a former coach herself. I don't think it's just the simple framing of her questions.

I think it's she knows which things a coach can and will engage with because she can think of it from that other side, which I think is important. But I'm with you on the format. Like getting them in the heat of the game is not conducive to good answers. I do think that like the pre-recorded stuff that broadcasts get from coaches before the game. Like in the morning of the day before it practice, whatever, like exclusive access that way, you're just going to get better color and better content

and a coach who's in a more thoughtful frame of mind. Like, I think for the sake of not getting all the sideline interviewers in the league fired as Justin clearly wants to do, I would simply propose you change the parameters of when these coaches are being interviewed to get something that's a little healthier to actual dialogue. You had 20 points in the paint. What do you like about your scoring on the inside here?

Yeah, no I just It went Passed inside And that player scored I think we should We should start a recurring bit Where sometime in the middle of the podcast

Isaiah cuts in And starts asking you questions About the takes you just gave It's at the point where if like I'm in the kitchen And I hear it Like I have to rush to the TV And it just makes me so uncomfortable

For all parties Also not great that you get the picture in picture Taking away the game so that you can see the sideline interview. Not ideal either. Rob, do you have any more? Oh, yeah. I mean, I have a similarly kind of micro-greavance,

which is, you know, there's been an interesting little trend this season of players trying to drain the clock while preserving the shot clock by rolling the ball in bounds. Oh, my God. Guys, we got to relax with rolling the ball. Like, this is a thing that I think the Celtics in particular

we're doing a lot earlier in the season. A lot of teams have started doing it more and more. You know, inside the, the last four minutes, you're protecting an eight-point lead, I get it. When you're doing it in the second quarter, the sole purpose is, look how clever I'm being. Look how clever I'm being by not letting you touch the ball to start this possession. I have no time for it. Like, just pick up the ball.

It's the second quarter. Please, let's go. It's in the, oh, look at me, I'm smart category of the take file. It's like, oh, look how smart I am. I just stopped the transition. It's like, no, you're not. Shruder did it the other night and it actually was effective because they let like 20 seconds go off the clock and it actually led to a Lakers win. I'm just confused why it's a rule.

Like it very clearly is a Chris Paul type working within the margins of the gray area of the rules. I don't know why it's still in existence. People just not care enough. Does it not have enough of a impact that like people aren't arguing against it? Not enough people were doing it. Not enough people were doing it. so it's not as visible. But now if teams like, you know,

if the Orlando Magic were doing this in a bunch of games, a team that was facing nobody watches, I don't think it would be a thing. But when the Celtics and like Jammarant likes to do this, like when the most prominent teams are doing it, that's when it's going to get people's attention. I think part of the reason it happens and part of the reason the rule exists the way it does

is because you don't want to create scenarios in which, say, for example, there's 1.3 seconds left in the game and you're throwing an inbound pass, the clock needs to start when the ball touches somebody's hand and not when it's in the air. But time box the rule. Like within the last two minutes,

let's have a certain rule. The rest of the game, let's have an actual sensible one. Right. Or it could just be when it hits something, like if it hits the court. There you go. That could figure it out.

Anyone else have anything? Just, you know, again, just not a grievance but something I'm bummed out about work. being over. Just a fantastic tournament. Even though I was rooting for the French because they have the most black guys

out of the non-African nations. So I was rooting for France for that sole bias and purpose only. And, you know, I thought it would be funny to see Messi lose his last World Cup match just coming short again. Seeing him win and seeing the gist, jubilation and the outbursts and the outcome.

pouring of emotion amongst Argentinians and people who support the Argentinian team was just really heartening, honestly. It was really cool to see that Mbapap so graceful, even in defeat. And, you know, I have to apologize to my friends who are PSG fans. I was just doing a lot of Erland Holland chat. I was like, this kid is, he's the future. He's better than Killian. Like, stop it.

this guy's going to break all these gold records, yada, yada, yada. Nah, early Holland. I love him to death. He's my baby from Viking country, but he's not fucking with Mbapé. I'm just generally going to miss 7 a.m. matches, you know, even stuff like Saudi Arabia, just winning a match against Argentina, right? Like the Morocco run. It was just incredible, man.

So I'm just, I'm really bummed out that the World Cup has come to win. And however, Premier League and Champions League are coming right back around the corner. And so soccer-wise is still back, y'all. Well, that's been this episode of 22 goals with Brian Phillips. Join us again next time. Shout to Brian Phillips.

Great freaking podcast. One of the best things we do in here. But so the grievances that we make you talk about basketball. Is that what it is? Yes. The passage of time. That's the grievance. Man, I get wistful.

Time moves so fast once you get. get older. Rob, you'll realize this. I know you're still a young man, but when you get washed up like me and Justin, oh, man, time just goes so quickly. And yeah,

I just reminisce on the great things that happened. But, yeah, World Cup. A lot of great memories with family members watching this stuff. Calling my brother after Brazil got roasted because I don't know if people know this, but like pretty much every single island nation in the Caribbean. like they root for Brazil

in the World Cup like that's their team it's like it's crazy so like yeah calling family members after they lost just a fun time all right

so after 10 minutes on soccer I think we should pivot to our final segment just to keep this rolling around here one suggestion box for the holidays here and as always today's suggestion box is presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited

Unlimited 1.5% cashback is just the beginning earned 5% on travel purchase through Chase, 3% on dining including takeout, 3% at drugstores, and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? Learn more at chasef freedom.com. Restrictions and limitations apply cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC.

Isaiah, producer Isaiah, what is on the docket today for our suggestion box? So today we are taking a question from Steve Allen. His question is, if you could rig the 2023 NBA draft to have any team with the number one pick, David Stern style, what team in the NBA would you place victory women yam on and why he would pick? He thinks the Knicks are a perfect fit. Wait, can you actually read the stern part again because there were some specific parts that you passed over? Oh, did I miss something there? To have any team with the number one pick on some David Stern-ish. as well, what team in the NBA would you place with me? Come on and why. Laughing, crying emoji, RIP as well.

And I'm hoagy in the email is terrific, but yeah. Yeah. Thank you to Steve Allen. I think we should narrow this down to teams that are specifically in the Wembe race. So the Knicks, as we outlined, seem like they're not going to be close. But among like the lower level teams, Rob, does, does anyone stick out? is one that could really, like, not just use Webbenyama,

but he would be great to see there. What about teams that could be lower-level teams? Sure. Let's do it. I mean, I'm just thinking, like, what do I want with Victor Webben-Yama? I want some perimeter support. I want a great playmaker.

I kind of want to see him on the Indiana Pacers as a Miles Turner successor. And sure, they can play together for a year if you want, if you can figure out some kind of extension. and with Turner. If you want to just free Miles Turner and let him go get his

Justin Verrier endorsed Max contract somewhere else, you can do that. But I just like him as like the finishing piece for that group. That's a lot of what they need. And maybe that's being too generous because maybe that core is too good already to get Victor and to really get in that race.

But hey, if we're rigging it, I'm going to rig it right. And I'm going to rig it for the Indiana Pacers. Yeah, I mean, the real answer for me is that I don't really care as long as he's not in Utah. or the Prairie. But if I did have to pick a team,

it would absolutely be the Detroit Pistons. I realized that there was a lot of Cade hype coming into the season. He's hurt. He's basically gone for the season now, which sucks for their development. But I just think their core is incredible right now, as far as young guys, especially as Rob says, perimeter talent. Yes, they've drafted like 70 centers in the past three years.

I don't care. as soon as when Benyama comes, he's going to be the guy at center. So, yeah, I would love to see him and Cade. That would just be incredible. And then I wouldn't mind seeing him on the Hornets with lamella ball. That to me would be really cool to watch. But definitely my number one pick is the Detroit Pistons. So my thing is, I don't think a team that has had the number one pick recently should have it again.

Like, I think we should be dispersing these guys throughout the league. And I honestly, when guys are first entering the league, I want to see them cut their teeth and forge their own path before they form some sort of star duo or team up with some guy on some other team. And so I think the Pistons should be out. I think the Pelicans, despite the shot and fraud of the Lakers handing over Victor Webbingyama to New Orleans would be historic. I don't think they should because they have Zion.

And so, like, the spurs make a lot of sense to me. It might be a little weird, parking one of the elite talents in one of the smallest markets in the NBA, but maybe the Tony Parker connection can pay off. I think he actually played for Parker's team in Leon originally. So there's a pipeline there. There's a connection. There's an easy story that Rob can write first year of Lundy. Magic, same thing.

Like, they got Bencaro. Like let them do that. Like the Wizards would be nice. Maybe the Raptors are probably the elite fit here where it's like, yeah, you have Barnes, but if you decide to pull the plug, like let's bring Webin Yama to our favorite multinational club in the NBA. So those would be on top of my list. Yeah, I thought about Orlando a lot, but I feel weirdly I don't feel guilty about displacing Miles Turner, maybe because he's a trade target all the time.

but I do feel kind of guilty about potentially displacing Wendell Carter, who's been really good and really important. Well, I assume, I'm just assuming they can play together. Like, bowl bowl is basically like, who is the three on that team? I could not tell you on a regular basis, just based on this season, much less if they had Victor, but I'd love to see it. Bullet point card?

Why not? All right, let's wrap the suggestion box there. Today's suggestion box was, again, presented by Chase Freedom Unlimited, Earn big time with Chase Freedom Unlimited. Earn 5% on travel, purchase through Chase, 3% on dining, including takeout. 3% at drugstores and 1.5% on everything else. How do you cash back? Chase make more of what's yours.

Restrictions and limitations apply. Cards are issued by J.P. Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Thank you to producer Isaiah for production on this podcast as well as reading our suggestion box. Isaiah, actually, I have one more thing before we go. What did you think about the Yokic grievance? Yokish for MVP three times in a row. Are you with it? It just seems too much.

If they finished topping the West, though, I think it's valid. Here we go. By the way, just so listeners know, very already knew where Isaiah stood on this topic, and he brought him in just for the backup. That's it. This is when you get shut down by two other people and you're desperate for some support.

Isaiah, I don't like him using you as a prop like this. I'm sorry. Also, went me to the thunder. We need him and Chet. We need that. And Poku. I like that. Three, four, five.

Wow. Great Gen Z take. All right. We'll be back next week. Until then, happy holidays to everyone. Enjoy the Christmas Day basketball. See you then.