The Ringer NBA Show - The Knicks Aren't Beating the Allegations. Plus, the Sixers Should Go All In on Capturing the Flagg. | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 25, 2025

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck discuss the Knicks falling to the Cavs and the Celtics in embarrassing fashion over the weekend (7:08). Can the Knicks realistically compete with top-notch competition, or should they be content with possibly reaching another 50-win season? The Sixers have been a complete dumpster fire since the start of the season, and Joel Embiid is facing lingering injury problems. Should the Sixers shut him down for the rest of the season and enter the Cooper Flagg sweepstakes (31:06)? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer: Clifford Augustin Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Video: Victoria Valencia Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers here and we are back for another season of OffGuard. Me and my guy, Pasha Giggy, are hitting your podcast feeds every Monday and Thursday talking everything hoops. Austin is bringing that 11-year NBA veteran perspective and of course keeping you guys entertained throughout the season. Make sure you tap into OffGard with Austin Rivers on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to follow everything we've got going on social media. The OffGar podcast, Ringer NBA. And of course, check us out on Ringer NBA's YouTube channel. we're getting better

we're getting better it's popping real ones Logan Murdoch here Rogerville there Howard Beck in the motherfucking Cliff on the board little reunion

from our sold out live show from two weeks ago I'm still on that I'm still on that we're gonna talk a little this is gonna be this has the potential

to be in a very depressing episode we're gonna talk about the Knicks we're gonna talk about the Sixers we're gonna get some mailback questions who like what the hell

that we're going to talk about there. That could be a whole, another conundrum for the listener. So, yeah, great pot on deck. Before we get to all that stuff, I just want to give space really quickly to two things. One, an incredible ending in Oklahoma City last night with the Minnesota Timberwolves. We can talk about that in a second. And I just want to also give space to the Detroit Pistons, seven straight wins. I just want to just get, I don't, I want to give space to that. Guys, let's skip compliments really quickly before we get into how bad two teams are faring right now in the Eastern Conference. Howard, what do you think about, let's go with the Pistons first. We don't talk about them that much. Can we just give them flowers really quickly? Yes, we absolutely should. I think this is their longest winning streak in like a decade. A decade. Incredible. And the thing is like we talk about like we'll get into the Nixon a little bit. There's a lot of Nick fan angst out there. The Wizards fans, I think there's like seven, seven of them in the whole world.

They've been through it. Like a lot of fan bases go through it. The Pistons fan base has just been through freaking hell for the last decade plus, 15 years or so. Like, yes, they are playing their butts off. Cade Cunningham is making some sort of possible bid for all MBA. I haven't done the math on like the Guard Corps. Actually, it's not even my position anymore. I haven't done the math on the 15 All-N-B-A slots yet.

It's too soon. But Kay Cunningham has been fantastic. Props to J.B. Bicker staff for, you know, being kind of the, I don't know how to frame it sometimes with a coach in the way that they turn something around. But establishing a new culture is the easy way of framing this, right? He got the buy-in. He got everybody playing hard. Health has played a role in this, too, in their emergence this year.

Going for veterans that I didn't quite, honestly, think. fit at the time like what what do the pistons want to buy us Harris but they needed that stability with their youth like everything has kind of fallen into place and some of this might just be natural growth from the young guys some of it may be just a change of a voice at in the coaching spot um but especially for bicker staff because like he's he he really got the cavaliers on track you know they they they built a foundation that kenny actinson is now getting to build on top of in Cleveland. And Kenny got all the love in the early couple months of the season for good reason.

J.B. Bickerstaff has done an incredible job. Like, it's the two of them probably for coach of the year. But the Pissons have been awesome. They're fun. They're spry. I thought they might make a move this season up the standings, but not this far. As we speak, they're sixth. Like, if the season ends it today, they're actually legitimately in the playoffs, not going

through the play-in route. And it's great to see. It's been fun. Yeah, I'm just going to echo some of this stuff Howard said. First, for J.B. Like, you know, great basketball family. Had done a really good job in Cleveland. Like, obviously Cleveland's great this year, not taking anything away from Kenny Atkinson, but like, I'm happy to see him, you know, continuing to be a great coach and continue to get opportunities. I think we talk about it a lot on the show as finding the good and right blend of like young, youthful, real talent and,

and, veterans that can still play that have, that have a professionalism about themselves, that helps that young core kind of continue to grow. You mentioned Tobias and,

I mean, Tim, Tim Hardaway, Jr. Like, they, they've got guys there that, that have really,

I mean, at other stops, not necessarily been celebrated, but are like really meaningful pieces to what they have going on there. And I just think that's an important, You know, that's an important thing for organizations as they continue to try to develop that young talent is to find people to put around them that are good pros that teach them the ropes. And maybe not even teach them the ropes, but just continue to help them elevate and develop.

And I'm just happy all the way around for them. So a pretty cool story. Pretty dope, man. And I want to give space also to the Minnesota Timberwolves. The bag was fumbled. The bag was fumbled last night, no? Are we like the bag was fumbled. It was one of those things.

Like, you know, when you first did, you're like, damn, Minnesota might be turned the corner, which they are. But it didn't, it could be, nothing. It could mean no, it could mean anything, it's all I'm saying. You know? Yeah. No, that's good. I didn't mean any disrespect either. I, like, they're playing well.

And they kept playing, which, like, gives you a chance. Would add on the floor, would add off the floor? Yeah, most teams are done. Most teams at that point are done. Like, they're like, I mean, chalk this shit up. Like, we're just going to, they kept pooping. So I don't mean to take anything away from them. I just, that's a weird one where I think it,

I think it's just one of those weird nights in the NBA, bro, you just fumbled it back. Well, that's the, uh, the sideline reporter's heart in Minnesota, um, who at the end of the game, that she had aunt, I forgot the other two that was there. But on a hot mic, aunt's out here cursing. And then she asked him, how did he deal with the,

how did he feel about the game? He was like, shit, don't ask me, ask him. That's awesome. It's great. Yeah. I like that, though. Hey, man, acknowledge, man. Like, I know I get all the interviews, but like, Fred to love.

And Edwards block, though. The block. And the credible on Shea. That's a pretty cool block. That was, that's one of the coolest blocks I've seen in a long time. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so we're talking about the Pistons to start the podcast.

And if the season ended today, you know who they would be playing in the first round of the Eastern Conference playoffs? Any guesses? don't even look the nix that's my transition let's fucking go well done trip you know what I mean still got it ah ah ah ah now on the surface you know you just look at the the Knicks pristine 37 and 20 record you know orange and blue skies tims are getting clocked together a ah ah ah ah south tall the boroughs killed a people's republic of brooklyn which um Howard proudly resides um but you would think it's good um but it's good um but it's good um but is not. The Knicks got their ass whooped on Friday in Cleveland by 37. They proceeded to get their

ass whooped two days later against the Celtics on Sunday. Their own five against the this season against the Celtics and the Cavaliers this season with an average margin of defeat of 21 points. Now, I think over the years, the Knicks have been a rural one's favorite. Probably because I just love watching the Knicks when they're great, or not even great, even when they're very good, because I don't think they've been great over the last, like, a few decades. But they finally have found a consistent core to go to the postseason year and year out. But, Beck, in true Knicks fashion, they seem to have hit a ceiling of their own doing. what is your confidence level that they can turn the tide against great teams? And what happens?

And what are the ramifications if they don't? Man, this is such a really interesting moment for the Knicks and I think for their fans too. Like as a franchise, as a fan base, like things have never been better or it's been a long time since they've been better than the last couple of seasons, right? Like, they're on pace to crack 50 wins again. I think they're on pace for like 53, 54 wins. If they get there, and I think they will, it'll be their first back-to-back 50 win seasons since the mid-90s. Like, that's a huge, huge thing. Howard, how old were you then?

You're about, you're about 25. I was already 72 in the mid-90s. They're, this is their best period of time, period, since the 90s, nix. the heyday, the Patrick Ewing days, the John Starks, Oakley, Larry Johnson. Like, in New York, those teams did not win championships, but it never got better than that in the modern era than the 90s, right? They didn't win championships during the 90s? I could have swore they won at least one title if you talked to Nixon. I've been living here for 21 years. I can tell you, like, as far as anybody here is concerned, they won all of the championships. The, like, the way the 90s are discussed. I'm not here to tweak Knicks fans.

But the weird thing about this moment is here they are in the midst of this, this renaissance with a really fun, lovable team, right? Like they play their butts off. They play through injury. They play a lot of minutes, maybe too many minutes. And yet, instead of them being celebrated right now, as they were a year ago at this time, and last spring, when they make that run to the second round for the first time and forever, there's all this. kind of hand-wringing, like, maybe we're not good enough. I mean, you mentioned it. So 0-1-5 against Boston and Cleveland by a massive losing margin over 20 points per game. They're 0-2 against the Thunder, too, for what it's worth, because if you got to the finals, that's the team, obviously,

that everybody thinks you may be facing. And those haven't been close either. So you're 0-N-7 by a massive losing margin against the three best teams in the NBA. And so by this point, as you're in late February, it's hard to dismiss all that and not just say, like there's there's a clear line of delineation. There's the contenders and then there's the Knicks in that second tier, which is not a terrible thing, by the way, especially considering where you've been for the last 20 years. But I think this is what happens, right? The high wears off eventually of we broke through. We're relevant again. We're great again. We're in the mix. We're in the conversation to all of a sudden, crap, we might not be good enough and then it's everything that's wrong.

It's Tibbs in his rotations or the length of minutes he's playing guys. Or it's Towns and his defense thing, something you knew at the moment you acquired him. Like, it starts to become everything that you're not. And I'm just going to be curious the next couple of months how the Knicks continue to progress through this, how the fans deal with it. Because as of right now, like nothing's final on February 25th. But as of right now, I think you kind of put a line above them. and say like the line for true contender cuts off before you.

But Mitchell Robinson's presumably back sometime in the next few days. We'll see what kind of impact he makes and how many minutes he can play and how often he plays with Kat to make up for all of Kat's defensive liabilities. And we'll see. There may still be another iteration of them this season. Roger, Beck brought up a good point just about, you know, when a team is good, we always talk about when a team is a year of head of schedule, right? And I think that definition you can loosely put on last year's team.

But can you describe that pressure that comes with what you have to do in the seasons after that year of head of schedule? Because we saw that with the Hawks a few years back, right, where they make this conference finals run out of nowhere, darlings of the league. then they kind of falter in the seasons after that. The Knicks haven't necessarily done that, but just against the top teams. But that speaks to the pressure, though, right? Like, what is that like on a year and year out

after you have the year ahead of schedule year? Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, there's always been an element of pressure anytime you have a good season as a core, and you're excited about flowing into the next year and the trajectory. There's going to be some pressure. I, you know, obviously haven't lived under. under the pressure cooker that is social media and media in general today, where everything is an immediate knee jerk, blow it up. They can't do it.

Or, you know, there used to be a day in a time where the pressure was there, but it wasn't a final indictment on who the team was. You were allowed a little bit more space to kind of grow and maybe not get it done this year. I mean, in today's sports culture, like if you're not winning it when they want you to, to win it on the time frame that they expect you to win it in. They blow it up. This can't work. Got to scrap it and try again. And so really, Logan, to answer your question, I don't know how difficult it is.

But there is always an element of pressure when you achieve, you know, playoff status or maybe overachieve playoff status coming into that next year. I would just, for kind of all the reasons Howard and you described in terms of what Nick Van has gone through over the last. last decade or so, look, just, just, you know, Mike De Antonio used to say, like, only one team's going to win a championship, but you're not going to win a championship, at least be exciting and be a product that the fans want to come see and the city can rally around because there's so much more than just playing basketball that goes into winning a championship.

We've, we've gone through that on this pod before. So enjoy it. Like, do I see them winning the Eastern Conference and coming out of it? No. I think they're squarely. in the tier below, Cleveland and Boston, that doesn't mean that they can't find a way to do it. But let's not as a fan base not enjoy what's going on right now because we're worried about...

The garden is on fire right now, though. Yeah, dude, come on, man. Like, let's enjoy that. I want to go to a next game. I don't care what Howard says. But I mean that. I really do mean that. Like, as a fan base,

I mean, especially a fan base that's dealt with what they've dealt with, you know, in recent past, like, enjoy this. Maybe they don't get. it done this year. And maybe there are some fundamental flaws in the team that have to be fixed and we'll address that. But enjoy the process, dude, enjoy it. I always said about, just real quick, I just wanted to play off one thing Roger said about the Sons. It was really

interesting at the time when Steve Nash and Mike D'Antoni got together and the Sons take off and they did, they went this narrative path from being the darlings of the league. Oh my God, they're so exciting. They're so much fun. They're winning. in a way that we really haven't seen in today's NBA. No, they don't play much defense, but they're blowing teams off the cord. And they've got a puncher's chance. Can they beat the spurs ultimately? Not sure.

But we'll see. And at the end of it all, by the time that era ends and Dan Tonys is dismissed and everything else happens, it became about all the things that they couldn't do, right? And especially, you know, the defense part of it, which by the way, at the time, we did not have defensive efficiency. we were still in a points per game era. And so it was like, oh, they're giving up so many points. Yeah, because they played a faster pace than anybody else.

But when you adjusted for pace, as we do today wisely, they were like middle of the pack most of those years in defensive efficiency. But the bottom line was what Raja just said. They were fun. They were exciting. And they were a perennial 50 to high 50 win team. I think they cracked 61 year. Like, if you asked any fan base, especially one where they had not one chance,

championships in a long time or had not been relevant in a long time, I'm going to guarantee you a four-year span where you go to the conference finals twice, you were the most fun team in the league by far, you're going to win 50 plus games a year, you're not going to win championship. Would you take it? And most fan bases, I think, in a heartbeat, unless you were Laker fans who expect nothing but championships or, you know, Bulls fans of a particular era or the spurs of that era, most fan bases would take that. And I think that's where the Knicks are right now, where it's like, you need the perspective of history here. Remember what your franchise has been through. And if you're old enough to have experienced some of the torture and dysfunction, if you got a four-year span of 50 wins a

year and maybe, you know, an appearance or two in the conference finals, even if you didn't win a championship, if you knew that ahead of time, you would take it based on where you'd been. And I think that's the perspective that's necessary in these conversations. I would just to add to that. like you have a team you have a team that's that's out there playing um producing no glaring issues with with uh you know someone not giving great effort or you know not not putting forth you know the level of intensity that you you want as a fan base like you don't have those issues and you just can't get over the hump um i would ask you to look at it from like a player's perspective because you said most fans, most fans would sign up for that Howard. I don't know that

players would because players like always want to win the championship, but I'm here to tell you definitively. Like those were the most fun years of my career. Like I was having a blast playing in that, um, competing, you know, do you want to win a championship? Sure. But, but the reality is like, you have to enjoy it. Like it's fleeting the career from a player side too. So when you're on an exciting team that has a puncher's chance that could win on any given night. And you have a crowd that respects that and enjoys it with you and isn't like, you know, booing you prematurely or or pressure in the organization to blow it up in a way that makes working, you know, not fun.

That's a, that's a fun experience for everyone. Like the Valley, like people ask me who I would associate with as a, as a, as a player. I always say Phoenix because like I felt like part of that town. Like I we all enjoyed that together, not just the fans, but the players too. Like sure we want to win a chip. But man, this shit is fun and we're on this ride together. So, you know, I would just say it even from the player standpoint like echoing what you're talking about. Like like hey man, enjoy that. Enjoy the runs. Yeah, yeah, we have to tinker. We got to get better. There's some shit we have to do defensively. We trust organization to make the moves, you know, to shore us up. But, man,

and enjoy the run because, like, there are no guarantees even as players that you're going to get that championship. Question no. Roger, in the moment, how likely is it for a player to be in the moment and enjoy that run while it's happening? As someone that was in that position. Well, not likely. I mean, perspective is everything, right? So, I'm sitting here at closer to 50 than 40, and I can tell you that. But, you know, that's why I say it, right?

Like for anyone that would be listening to this, like in my younger self, I would have appreciated someone saying to me, hey, dude, like, yeah, there's always going to be something that you can complain about leaving X, Y, and Z game or leaving X, Y, and Z season. But, you know, take a step back and appreciate all the good. Like, you guys have just won 17 in a row. Like, maybe they didn't swing, swing that ball to the corner. But is it that big of a fucking deal? Like maybe you guys lost in the Western Conference finals and that sucks. And we're going to go back to the drawing board. But look at look at the season.

Look at the meals. Look at the time spent together. Like those are real things. These are people's lives, right? Like from a player's perspective. Now, I'm not talking about the fan now. This is your life. So if you're not going to enjoy it and soak it in and enjoy the people you're with

and try to make meaningful relationships, you know, you're wasting your life. Like that's I mean we're hooping and if the only thing that matters is winning a championship We are wasting our life there like that we have to enjoy that and we have to find the balance between You know producing at a level that can help us win a championship and enjoying ourselves and that's I mean that's a That would be for anybody I guess in any workforce I've been fortunate enough to You know most of my life has revolved around sports but like finding the balance between being productive and doing what you need to do for For whatever business to be successful but enjoying yourself and soaking that up.

Like that's life, right? Because you wax and poetic, man. Hey, man, I'm just saying. Look at you in your fucking bag, dude. You're in your back. I'm saying that shit goes really fast. It goes really fast. And if you, if you, look, listen, this is going to be to some degree.

I think Kobe, if he were here, people talk about how he, you know, some of the younger generation got to see him in a different light when he stepped away from the court. Right? and he was able to kind of take some of those guys under his wing and impart wisdom and shit like that. But he spent his entire career being like a maniacal winner and stuff like that, right? And it worked for him. But I bet there's a part of him that would have been like, if looking back at it with 20 years in the rearview, maybe open up a little sooner. Maybe I would have that.

No, like we'll talk. Like we all have that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I hate to ask this question on the hills. of Raja just speaking so eloquently about life and basketball with respect. But Howard, obviously this season is going to be defined by the move that they,

that the Knicks made preseason to get Carl Towns. How much will that haunt them if things go awry this season? So a little while after we stop or we, finish this pod. I'm doing the Knicks Film School pod with my buddies Jonathan Macri and Andrew Claudio. And I asked them for some topics ahead of time. And right off the top, it's about it's the town's the town's trade. It's it has to be, right? Like if you if you hit a moment like this, if it looks like you just hit a brick wall, which is what it looked like this weekend was the Knicks brick wall. The Cavs and Celtics getting blown out both times. It's oh shit. We had a breakthrough season.

We added two big pieces in towns and McHale Bridges, hopes of a title run. And as of right now, it just looks like we've hit some impassable obstacle here. And I think it's natural to then start questioning the moves made. But the perspective is important here. How far were you going with Julius Randall as your second best offensive player? I think they've probably already gone as far as they were going to with Julius Randall. I think Minnesota is already grappling with what to do to move on from Julius Randall. So Towns was an upgrade.

Towns was an obvious upgrade overall and certainly offensively. But I've said from the beginning, the biggest thing that happened to the Knicks last summer was not necessarily trading all the picks for bridges. That was a big bet that they made. We can judge that on its own. it's not necessarily trading Randall and DiVincenzo and a pick for towns. It's that they could not keep Isaiah Hartnstein. And that was a cap thing. They did everything possible to keep him.

They didn't choose to let him go. They did not underbid him, undersell him in any way. They just couldn't pay as much as the Thunder could. It happens in a salary cap league. And so the rules worked against them. when you lose Hartinstein, now you had this great one-two punch at center with him and Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson's on the shelf because of surgery. He's still not back yet. So you lost your great one-two punch that gave you a ton of stuff at center, shot blocking, rim protection overall.

In Hartnstein's case, just a ton of offensive rebounding and passing playmaking. And then the character of last year's Knicks team was a lot of Brunson, Hart, I think Devinchenzo was. I think DeVincenzo was part of that. Hartnstein was part of that. So you lost two of the guys who were kind of the glue guys who got you deep in that second round series despite all the injuries with all their toughness and hustle and good vibes. So the character of the team changed, the personnel changed, and you couldn't backfill the center part of it, especially the defensive element. And so I don't think it means that the town's trade was a mistake. Like you're, as of right now, you're no better or worse off than you were last season. And by the way, we're still months from

the playoffs, you might actually get to the conference finals. It could happen. Maybe you even get to the finals. Things are weird in this league. Things break your way. So it's too soon to judge it. And under the circumstances, I'm not going to say it's a deal they had to make, but it was a deal that was logical to make. I actually think if you're going to start second guessing either of the big trades from last summer for the Knicks, maybe it was all the picks for bridges. That's the one that's going to haunt you more because you don't have any assets left to spend. One of the other questions that, you know, I'm going to probably be addressing on the Knicks pod later today and that the Nix are going to have to grapple with this summer is if we don't get where we want to go, what's next?

Who else can we get? Well, you're capped out for years to come here and you don't have a lot to trade because you sent out most of the assets to get bridges and to an extent town. So like, there's not a lot of flexibility or optionality, as we like to say in the NBA left for this team. Yeah, I was going to just to kind of, I was, I'm with you on that, Howard. Like the Carl Anthony Town Street, I mean, we could do that, but like Julius Randall, that's an aesthetics thing for me, right? You're basically in the same place as an organization as it relates to winning the East. So like, do you like to see more of an offensive, like, productive type of team?

Or do you want to see one with less of a ceiling in that regard? I don't think it moved the needle much, but the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, um, the, the, the, um, the, the, the, um, the, the, the, that doesn't give you a ton of flexibility. I, I do think it's interesting, though, like, as much as I love, uh, Jalen Brunson, like, this is, you, when you have a, a relatively small guard that is, that is, that is, that is so, um, integral to your team's success offensively, I mean, historically, I mean, you got to pair that with, like, like an elite type of wing or or or it's hard to win we we had this conversation about dame and c j mccullum yeah right like that's just that also a mix with ja word like i'm not taking anything away that's just a very hard recipe to get right like now step was able to do it to to some degree um the last time they won the chip but like you know he had an he had a great clay thompson

and andrew wiggins was playing really well like you know he had some support years before that like He did it way back in the day, but then he had KD riding with him shotgun. Like, it's just way harder for teams to do it when that's the focal point of your offense. And that doesn't mean they can't. It's just what it is. I also think there's just too much on Brunson still, right? Like, Conantity Towns is an elite offensive player, but he's not a shot creator, right? Like, he's not the guy you, you like, Brunson goes to the bench and it's fine.

We'll just give it to Towns for the next 10 minutes. They don't have that second guy. like look at Boston's got Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum and Derek White and Drew Holiday at a different level, you know, step down. But like so many guys who can handle the ball and do something with it, right? The calves have the one-two punch of Mitchell and Garland. And then you're going to get some stuff out of Evan Mobley, too. The Knicks don't have anywhere else to go. And I actually thought when they first got Bridges, because bridges can play a little kind of, I don't want to say point forward but ish.

and played a little bit that way with Brooklyn, I thought you could maybe have him be in a little bit of that role where Brunson goes to the bench and maybe Bridges runs the second unit a little bit the way that I Godal used to with the Warriors. Maybe that's just not, you know, maybe I haven't seen it much. And I think that, like if there's anything I think the Knicks still need, yeah, of course they could use a shop blocking center or rim protector next to to towns. Of course, they could use, you know, various other elements. But I think more than anything,

it's the hardest thing to get, which is you need one other great to elite shot creating, scoring player and probably a bigger wing. And there's just aren't that easy to come by. Yeah, that's a better, that's a probably better way to put it Howard, because it's a little unfair. He just needs help, right? And it needs to be in a bigger, a bigger, like someone who can get to the cheese, like he gets to it offensive. in a bigger body to compliment what he does because he's fantastic. That's just a lot of work for a dude that size to beat NBA teams like that, almost single-handedly some night's offensive.

This got depressing. It's got sad. They're going to win 53, 54 games. And they're going to have a chance in the playoffs to make some noise. I actually don't think it's that sad. You know what's sad, though? The opponent that they're going to have on Wednesday night, who we are going to talk about on the other end of the break.

You're so proud of yourself. Look at that. And we are back, ladies and gentlemen. And now it's time for today's hard-to-handle segment presented by State Farm. Life's big moments like buying a house can trigger big reactions like, man, I can't handle this. Dang, or, oh, come on. But what you should say is, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. So let's talk about this week's biggest hard-to-handle moments,

AKA some on-court occurrences that stirred up some strong reactions. Like the reactions that the Philadelphia 76ers fans have had over the last few weeks and months. And dare I say years. Cliff Earmuffs, buddy. All right, man. So the Sixers are 20 and 37 after losing big to the Chicago Bulls last night. to add insult to injury to injury to injury. Joelle Embed is considering surgery on his knee.

This is after a summer where the Sixers acquired Paul George, and I had people telling me that, you know, hey, it's going to be two celebrations down Broad Street in Philadelphia. We got one of them with the Sixers, which is what I've been, I mean, with the Eagles, was what I've been trying to tell Cliff, but he was at that next game where Embed sat out some extended time

and ruffled some feathers and furrowed some brows. Howard, where are we with the Sixers? Also, I should note that it's not all bad for the Sixers. If they continue these losing ways, they will be in prime position to keep their first-round pick, which is top six protected. It's priority number. That's priority number one right now.

A priority number one. Wait, question. Roger, before I get to Howard, Roger, right now, do you have your, do you have your military-grade hat? Do you have your military instructions? And are you in the tank right now?

Are you ready to go? Are you just, are you just driving through places? I'm sorry, I'm sorry, go ahead. You did hijack that a little bit. And then you got to your point, he said, fuck out of here.

So I'm giving it. No, go ahead. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. I just wanted to, like, for me, priority number one. Go, Howard. They said the segment's supposed to be two to five minutes, and you went towards the two minutes of this segment, Raj.

What the fuck? We're trying to get to, we're trying to have some discourse here. Can you just, when I get to the tank question, can you answer the tank question? Yeah, let me, let me do that. Like, look. All right. All right.

My bad. I'll just, I'll go. Like, I'm sorry, but why is he still playing? I got a couple. Like, who would have thought, right? Like, people told you this summer, like, who had any idea that Joiling B was going to come back looking like that? Starting to season off with all the silliness and the media and everything like that. And I guess they might have known.

Catch phase with journalists and stuff. Right. But the average fan wouldn't have known his knee was as bad as it is. So I thought that there was some cause to be optimistic and think that adding Paul George would help them get to another level. At least I was in that camp. I would at this point, why is he still playing? right like that that's i have no idea why you're still playing him go ahead to shut him down and get him right and then when that when that domino falls yeah i'm in the tank like let's let's let's not

that this tick this this this this pick that we have is protected and we're going to make sure we protect it sit paul george as well while you're at it listen i'm there's you can't explicitly do that though in the new in the modern NBA like they have to actually be injured like mb can sit out i don't know like and i know that pa george's pa paul george told you he got an injury He's got a finger. He's got a finger. He's been telling you about it. Right. He's a pinky joint. Yeah. Easy money. We're long past the days of Greg Popovich putting down DNP old for Tim Duncan once upon a time and getting a good lashing from David Stern and a big old fine. There's a time for just coldhearted pragmatism in this league and this is it. This is the moment for coldhearted pragmatism. This is the moment where if Embedeed needs knee surgery, like there's no point. The season's to. It's gone. It is lost. And I was a Sixers optimist. And as Raj knows, because we talked about this while you were still on leave, Logan, even after the rough start of the season, even after all the nonsense in the locker room with Embedged shoving a columnist, even after everything, I said, listen, calm down everybody. If the Sixers just get healthy for a stretch of time with their big three all healthy, because they're very top heavy with Embed, Paul George, Tyrese, they just need to be healthy. And those three,

should be really good. And they just need to stretch a time where they're healthy. Well, they haven't had any real stretches of time where all three have been healthy and functioning. And yeah, it does look like things have pretty much gone off the rails at this point. Hold on Howard. I just got to say this, man. And I'm,

and I appreciate your turtle optimism and I appreciate all that. I'm off of that. I'm telling you right now, I'm off of that. I'm just noting that that was my stance in November, December. I am retroactively getting on your head from the shit that you said in September, is all I'm saying. I never had, I never had optimism for this group. man. If you watched Embedde over this summer.

Run your, run your victory laps when you weren't even on the pod for three months. I couldn't say this shit. I couldn't say this shit. But then you put your trust in Paul George as your savior. Like he was going to be good.

Not a savior. No, no, no. Fuck all that. They put all these things. Paul George tells you who he is every time in May and April. We can't even say what he tells in June because he's never showed you because he never got to that point.

Right? And then you pair him with Embeddead, who's also never showed you that he can make it to the promise land ever in his career, right? So then you put, hold on, hold on, hold on, because I gotta get this off, man, because I'm sorry, man.

A lot of people have been saying that the Sixers, and this is what we do every time in the summertime. Sorry, Cliff, we always anoint these teams that ain't got no business being anointed based on the players they have on their roster. Howard, Howard, let's go back to even our site. I said they were a contender.

That's not anointing. No, no, no, no. People was out here blow a smoke up to six his ass saying that they were going to be good and they were going to compete. And by compete, they're at the point right now in their trajectory where its finals are busts. They were second round or, and that was it. That was their ceiling based on the top players that they had on their roster in Paul George and Joel Embed. I refuse to believe that they are going to be a team that contends based on what I have seen from the top players. that you are relying on to be pushing you to contendership. I am tired of trying to give these two people the benefit of the doubt year and year out when they have not earned it.

I'm sorry, that is my rant for October edition of ruins because I am sick of tired of the smoke being blown up the ass of the Sixers because they have not earned it based on the players that have been on their roster in Paul George and Joelle and Bede. We keep giving them the benefit of the doubt when they don't deserve it. I am tired of it. I'm sorry. Rare Logan rant, but I am sorry. This always happens every offseason when everybody's like, oh, Paul George is going to be in.

He's going to put this team over the top. Oh, Joelle and B. If you just had a chance, no, every season, it goes down the way it goes down. And we keep blowing smoke. And it's, I'm just tired of it. Cool. Sorry. I'll just say this.

Go ahead. Sorry. No, I'm not. But we do live in an era of like every movie is a fucking multiverse. There's some version of the Sixers in the multiverse where they stayed healthy and there was a higher ceiling for this team. Lose in the second round because. No, you could like you can do. Dude, you can back on Embedde and Paul George all you want.

Both guys have had very credible, remarkable careers. Joila Bid was MVP two years ago. Paul George has been an all NBA number of times. He led a couple of teams to the conference finals against LeBron early in his career. I know it was a long time ago. I'm just saying before you just like completely destroy these guys, just I just want to note for the record here, in a world where Joelle Embed stayed healthy and plays at the MVP level that he was playing at before he got hurt last season. In fact, he was exceeding the level that he played at in his MVP season.

The problem is health more than anything. You can say it's about character and whatever else you want to put on him, Logan. But like, it starts with the health problem. And so let's just get back to the present. The present is this. The season's toast, Joel Embed, whether he needs knee surgery or some, they'll call it a procedure because they don't like calling things surgery. Shout out city slickers. They're going to end up doing something.

And we'll see what Joel Embed is next season. But this season is done. It's gone. And so, yeah, of course you should lean into the tank. Of course you should shut down Joel and beat. Of course you should either, you know, whatever Paul George is. he's banged up. Everybody's banged up. If he's not, give him an injury. Find something. Let the season go. Can the NBA find Howard Beckford telling a team to just fake, to just put an injury on a player? Can they, can they do that thing?

Just try it. Just go ahead. Try it. But the six goes to Oklahoma City if it's outside of the top six, right? So right now the Sixers are right on that line. They're at six. Six worst record in the league. league. So six spot in the lottery odds rankings. Nothing is guaranteed, right? You could finish bottom six and have the lottery balls get away from you and you could drop to eighth in the pecking order. If somebody leapfrogs you and suddenly you're losing the pick anyway. But you've got to give yourself the best chance to actually keep the pick and draft the top six guy because if it becomes the seventh or eighth pick or whatever it's going to be and it goes to Oklahoma. Like, I mean, I don't, I'm trying not to depress producer cliff too much here or.

He won't a Super Bowl two weeks ago. He's fine. He's fine. He's fine. Get out of here. But Philadelphia's going to come on glued if this team crashes and burns as hard as it is and loses the pick. And you've got to salvage something from all of this. And that's the way to do it. Like that's it. It's lean into the tank. Lean as hard as you have to. If that means fines from the league, if it means like league investigators like, you know, setting up camp in your facility, fine, whatever. Just do what you. got to do. Keep the pick. I don't know what I'm supposed to add to that. Like that's, that's it.

That why get him the surgery. This is, there's no room for debate about this. Like, there's no room for debate. If, if the man is banged up to the point where that knee won't get healthy without a procedure, uh, uh, whatever, whatever you want to call it. Get that done. Priority number one. Once that happens, it is a wrap, and we need to get as low as we can get in the in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, the, the, the, the call to try to protect that pick. Done. However that happens, I mean, if you got another way around it and you can assure me that, we'll go with that option. But as of right now, I see losing basketball games is the best way to do that. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I think is the damn the, the, the, the, the, the, the call for the sixers right now.

It sucks, but that's where we are. You know, man, Roger. When things feel hard to handle, like when you need to protect, what things feel hard to handle, like when you need to help protecting what matters most, remember to say, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. With State Farm, you can talk to your agent to help choose the coverage that you need. Select from coverage options to protect things you value most, file a claim right on the State Farm mobile app,

and reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Visit StateFarm.com to learn more. Cliff. What's up, buddy? Cliff, are you, are you calling, are you conjuring Jake from State Farm to your apartment right now just to, like, give you something, like, maybe a hug? A file a clam on your team? Yeah, man, y'all just got me even more depressed. I just want to see my sixes ball out, but, you know, we got to rely on a part-time.

Cliff said he has, Cliff said the saddest shit prepot. He said, I have no basketball to watch at the spreek. I just want to watch the Sixers games and watch it be good. Like, I don't want to watch Nick Clexton hit game winners on us and watch Trenton Watford go off for 20. On HBCU night of all nights. On HBCU night of all nights, man. They had Lincoln, Cheney, Del State, the building was popping, the lot, the dance, the band was going crazy.

Man, it was letting there, man, and then that happened at the end of the game. But still, we on Cooper Flagwatch, so it's all good. There you go. Cliff, Cliff, Cliff, Cliff, how many tears will you shed if If the ping pong balls give you all the eighth pick And it goes okay C Oh man If it goes man

I don't even know what I would do bro I don't know where you're gonna be But you're coming on the pod that day You're coming in a pod I don't care who's producing that day I'm 100% You're on the pod I definitely would

But you know it'd be great though If they added a Cooper flag to To the city Because him and Cooper de Gene And then like read Blankiship They already got the exciting white things going on Oh That'd be lit in Philly bro

You're talking this talk on Black History Month, bro, the last one we might have left? Wow. We already got the Renaissance in L.A. Now you're talking about a goal coming on in Philly? It's crazy. It'd be crazy, though, man. That'd be a good look.

Plus, the Phillies team is already like all white anyway, so maybe they might do something in spring too. So it'd be lit, man. Anyways, you want to get to some questions? Yes, we do. Yes, we do. All right. Jacob Tyler here.

Tortured Mavs staying here. In 2006, I was nine years old and my dad was gifted tickets to a basketball game. It was my first memory of ever watching sports in any capacity. Mavrege first spurs, Dirk Davinsky v. Tim Duncan, Western Conference semifinals game seven, overtime classic. Basketball history. From there, I fell in love with basketball and Dirk will go down as my all-time favorite athlete. Then Luca comes along and I get to witness my goat directly pass the torch to the next 20-year franchise guy.

And now here we are. I say, what are your personal highest and lowest moments you've experienced or witnessed from the game of basketball. Jake. Can I actually go first with this one? Is it right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The highest of the higher. Rajabelle, you was there as a Sixers fan. You witnessed Alan Iverson, game one. NBA finals get busy. Step over Tyron, Lew in the Lakers. That is the highest of the high. But I think the defense at game, Roger. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, thanks, man. I hit a couple of tough shots in that one, too.

You did too. You did too. You did a couple of the low. The lowest of the low. I think it's Kauai Leonard in that shot circling the basket about 80 million times before the Citrus getting eliminated in the game seven. Yeah, Game 7 and Toronto. And the Raptors go on to win the championship after the Warriors lose KD, Clay, guys like that. And that was probably the best Citrus team we had in a long time. So, yep, that was probably lowest of the low. Sorry, buddy.

A.O., if I remember correctly in that game won NBA finals in 2001, I feel like Eric Stowe hit some bullshit But it was a beautiful shot He hit like a like It was a wild like runner Was it a yeah it was like a runner And it went up and it went in Did I get that wrong?

I don't remember all of that Cliff do you remember this? He hit like a I feel like I do remember something like that Running shot I'm gonna sit it in the chat I'm sitting in the chat I'm still thinking

Roger go ahead buddy Let's see High probably for me I'll I'll go with two. I mean, they both are Sixers-centric. Like, I, the time, when I got called for my first 10-day to join the Sixers, I was in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and that was a pretty, I was at a Denny's.

That was a pretty cool call. Like, that was, you know, I had finally got it done. I had been to a bunch of camps. I had even gotten a contract that was guaranteed, but I had never made the team to play in a game. And this kind of solidified that I was going to be on the roster for. for a real game. So that was a high for me. Only to be top probably by game seven of the Eastern Conference finals that year in Philly.

I had my parents there. I had my grandparents there. I had aunts and uncles in the building. And I got the call early in that game and had 11 and kind of sparked a run that that was, that was, you know, probably launched my career to some degree. So like that was probably my, you know, one A and one B. My lowest moment as a player would have probably been that night in, shit, this was in Philly. With the Utah Jazz when Tyrone Corbyn and I got sideways and our fireworks happened

because that was the beginning of the end of my career. I didn't know it at the time. But, you know, that was. and I was guilty of not being a good pro that night but I let dysfunction get to me in a way that brought out the worst in me and so that was that was probably the lowest.

Damn. Howard? I got nothing on this one. Awesome. It's never a fucking fan, bro. I'm not a fan. I'm not an NBA. I'm like, I'm a journalist.

I'm not a fan. I've been doing this for 28 years. You were never a fan in your life. My biggest most memorable like emotionally like when they like when the warriors like traded in like uh fucking what's his name who they trade you're gonna if you pull something out from the 60s out of your ass no i was gonna say what um when robert paris got traded to to the to the celtics that wasn't that wasn't heartbreaking for you fuck like you were fanning in weren't you um i was really small but during that

time story i haven't told that often um i want a contest from like a children's shoe store to be ball boy for a day my first ever NBA game warrior game was I was honorary ballboy for a day. I got like a one of those bright yellow Warriors t-shirts that said like ball boy or something like that on it. All I remember is like pushing the broom around in the key or whatever, rebounding pregame and I believe perish and I think John Lucas were both still on the team then. Yes. Very very, very long time. That's all we asked for. Very cool. But I wasn't really like I knew nothing. I was I was like so so small. I was not. I had no idea what I was doing. It was all I hate.

my actual highest high as a sports fan was not NBA. But as you know, Logan, I was like a huge Niners fan as a kid growing up in the time of Joe Montana. So Montana to Clark, the catch, 1982 NFC championship game against Cowboys, like, that's the highest high. And that's actually like my, that's my moment. Like, that's the moment that puts me on a path that eventually sends me down the road to becoming a sports writer. So like I always cite that as like being like a really just important a moment as a sports fan, but also just as a person. and for my career. So that's the highest high.

Lois Low, like Jim Bert once knocked Montana out cold, Jim Bert from the Giants, like just absolutely destroyed him. Roger is. Negative. Look it up, kids. No, no, I know that.

Rosa didn't know who the fuck we were talking about because he did the, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I know Rosa is like, whew. Roger, who's like the biggest football head on this pod, and it's like, but no, he does not know what Jim Bird is.

Look it up, dude. Yeah, look at it up, motherfucker. Yeah, like Howard had to look up. By the way, Howard's fucking street crate is dwindled, by the way, guys. As you know, it wasn't Cuddy who said the old days is the old day. I didn't say he did. I quoted Cuddy accurately. I thought you meant because it was the same sentiment.

The old days is the old days. It was Slim Charles who said that shit. And I didn't remember that line, but I did remember Cuddy accurately saying the game done changed, which is the same basic sentiment. it's the theme that ran through that part of the series I'm not I'm not taking the points back Howard I like it okay thank you

yeah whatever any who there's so many like memories that are because I want to get to the other questions well then fucking spit it out and so we can get to it hey hey hey when you was like poetic about everybody

I wasn't telling you to hurry up I wouldn't tell you to wrap that shit up I was throwing what you were fucking saying when you were talking about like oh man well family was here I had 30 tickets man I didn't even have nobody much money to get in all the motherfuckers in the Easter conference finals game. But I did it.

I was enthralled. And now you always fucking pop, man. Jesus. Anywho. I think as a kid. My highest moment as a fan, because, you know, I was a fan, Howard, before I got into this, was 2010. The contingent of Laker fans in the Bay Area.

in Berkeley. I was at Berkeley High at the time. And we all went to Burgermeister on, it's not even there anymore, on Shattuck to watch Game 7 in the 2010 finals. It was my junior year of high school. And a lot of those guys are warrior fans now, so it's weird. But they were Laker fans. There were a lot of Kobe jerseys up in there.

And they beat the Celtics, and that meant something. That meant something. And so I was really excited about that. Lowest, probably, shit. man. I don't know. It's not, it's not as a fan like I was a Lakers fan growing up. It wasn't a lot of low moments. So the lowest one was the Raiders leaving the bay. Wasn't a lot of low moments. Probably. Which time, Logan? They left like 17 times. All they do is like fuck with your emotions there. Well, they only left once for me, sir, because I'm only, I'm 12 years old. So, you know, as you

know, professionally, though, I will tell the story. That was really cool. That was like a high in this business. I remember when I was still trying to figure stuff out in my career and school wasn't going great. This is 2017. School wasn't going great. I kind of hit like a ceiling in terms of career stuff and I put a lot of eggs in a basket to get hired by the San Jose Mercury News. And I thought this is like one of the last opportunities. And I remember after I like applied, I interviewed for it. I went to Baker Beach. It was a rare, like, 75-degree day in San Francisco. So I went to Baker Beach.

No, it wasn't Baker Beach. It was Ocean Beach in San Francisco. And Roger will appreciate this. I just did ladder drills on the beach in the sand because I was like, you know what? I'm going to clear my fucking head. And I did some parachute too as well. And midway through the workout, I got a call from the editors of the San Jose Mercury News to say, Hey man, we have this beat writer job available.

We think you'll be perfect for it. We want to hire you. This is after I interviewed. And they were like, the salary is shit. And I was like, I don't care. And I will see you tomorrow. And I ended the workout and that shit changed my life. And I remember that.

So that was a high moment being a sports writer. So I wouldn't be here with you today if that didn't happen. So shout out. Shout out to the Merck, my hometown paper. That was my dream job. but I never got it. I never quite got there. Yeah, you did all right.

You got the time. You did okay. You did fine. Their loss. Cliff, what is the next question? All right, the next one is from Olua Jomi Loju, aka Jomi. First time caller,

long time baller. The Lakers are the tourists for having great players on their rosters like George Mike and Jerry West, Kurt Rambe Slava Medvedenko, Sasevuyich, and Alex Cruzo for starters. What would Luca Donchich have to do

in his Lakers tenure to be considered among those greats? Also, an unrelated note, happy black history month. I knew it was going with this. You got me talking about exciting whites in Philly. Meanwhile, he's talking about some happy black Christmas month. First of all, happy black history month, man. Let me, let's get that clear.

An illustrious sports writers like Dan Wojke and Howard Beck and Mike Bresdenahan. Jomey, just erasing Mark Madsen, by the way. I know the Mark Mike Penberthy Joe Crispin Come on Jerry West What do you say Jerry West

Gail Goodrich No my God Jerry was in there Jerry was in there Okay Hot Rod Huntley What does he have to do Hot Rod was the dude man

Are we still talking about white players And white people Blame Jomey I don't know what Joe I'm not exactly sure What Jomey wanted With the answer to that question No

He said what did it have to be on Yeah. What does Luca have to do in order to be a liquor green? Exist. Exist. Do what he did in Denver? You know what's going to be hilarious and Roger will back me up on it. The amount of Omega Sci-Fi members who are going to be at the clave with Luca Dodgers's jersey's on. Yeah.

It's going to be nuts. I know a lot of my hobbies that are Omega Sci-Fi out here plotting for that Luca jersey. It's going to be insane. Speaking of Black History Month Howard, did you get the reference? No? Which? Okay, no, no, no, that's fine.

Hey, I gotta chill, yeah. Now, what's the next question, man? All right, man, let's get to another question. Is this question going to get us fired too? No, no, no, no, no. This is actually a fun one. This is actually a fun one. So it says, you two are team captains.

This is for Beck and Raja, but obviously, Logan, chime in on here. It says, which ringer staffer would you pick in your starting five? Beck goes first and then you alternate picking four other ringer staffers to go five on five. Who you picking? Alumni is allowed if staffing is low. Thanks. Kelly Allen aren't.

Kelly said like 20 questions, by the way. I'm going to let Lolo and Howard Beck take this because he don't know nobody. I don't know nobody. I mean, if we're assuming this is, I assume five on five basketball. I've never seen anybody at the ring or play. They all claim make a hoop. A lot of, when we was at our intro days Howard, a lot of them was in there talking, we've got to do a pickup game, we can go there.

Did the pickup game happen? I don't think, I don't think. I got out of, I had to get out of the West Coast. I got out of there, but I'm not sure, man. Doesn't Mahoney have a rep for actually being, like, legitimate? I think it's Kyle Man that does. No, Kyle Man is the one. Kyle Man.

I don't think it's Mahoney. I think it's Kyle Man. I'm going to pick Kyle Man. I'm going to pick Kyle Man. I'll say when I started a farmer, do we alternate? Yeah, alternate, yeah. I'll pick how I'm in. Sorry, I just.

Dude, drafting absolutely blindly because I have absolutely no idea what anybody can do. I'll just take the aforementioned Mahoney in the spirit of Jomi's email from a minute ago. Okay. Okay, you got three more each. No, we have two more. Or not three more. We have four more each. Well, no, you're including your start, like you two are in your starting.

Oh, I'm on the team? Oh, we're at our starting five. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My team's already toast. I'm going to blow up my knee again. Yeah. Who am I going to take? I'm taking

Raja, what the fuck? Sorry, right now, I'll take it, I'll take Austin Rivers. I'm about to say, yeah. Oh, shit. I'm taking a prime Roger. I'm taking prime Roger. Austin's shutting down Raja.

Doc and Roger Bell both just stepped in as the Manning father did on draft night. We weren't the first picks. We're not coming to your teams, bro. Wow. We're not number two picks in this draft. I went undrafted once. I'm not a number two pick in this fucking draft.

Fuck. My bad, buddy. Well, fuck. He's going to be watching. I think our mistake was like immediately thinking like full-time staffer, ring or whatever. Like, like, and not like, there's an expanded ringer universe here we should have considered. Uh, who would I pick? Taking van.

Taking Van Lathen. This says a body, right? He's like six, five. You know. You might be taller in it. Honestly, Ben's tall as though. And you say you're still to hoop too.

I need some, I'm taking Rosillo if we need, I'm going for size then. Ooh, Rissillos. I don't know, man, Rissillo might be good. I'll be seeing on his Instagram.

He'd be pulling and stuff, but I don't know if he's actually good. I don't know if he can play, but I'm not messing with the dude. I'm going to say this. I'll say it is. I know Riscilla for a little minute now. He said he began active on,

allegedly, he said he began active on the court. So Rudy's my man, too. They said they both used to get buckets back in the end. Bro, Reseda. It just looks like he's going to fuck around and just give elbows for no reason.

He's going to take it too serious. He's Charles Oakley. He'd be in a gym, yeah, because he'd be in a gym for us. Fuck. I don't know if he can score. He'll do some damage. Imagine him sending screens.

He'll make my life hard as hell. I know I'm not guarding him. Because I can't flop in a pickup. You know. Who else? What was my last? Damn. You're probably going to kick my ass.

You know, I'm going to get. He said, alumni, I'm going to take Chuck Kulsterman. This has a great, like, I would take him. I think that's it. Who? That's why Roger couldn't participate. Chuck Closterman? That's a great name.

Shout out, Chuck. If we're just, if we're just pulling names on vibes, then I'm, I'm closing my lineup out with the great Che Serrano. All right. I got Rember Brown coming off the bench. He's going to be my team cleaves. He's going to be on the team cleaves, but that's it. Give me Concepcion off the bench is my sixth man.

I like those lineups. I want to do one more? Yeah, let's do one more. All right, this is from the kill. All right, Hi Rowan's team. Longtime listener from across the pond. I write on behalf of Tom Hanson and myself inspired by a recent post on X,

sorry Howard, we are a boo sky guys, but addictions are hard to kick. The post said that we need to find a way to probably commemorate LeBron and NBA folklore in language once he retires. More specifically, we should refer to the errors of basketball as B-B and A-B before-B and after-B

thoughts. What do you guys think of that? The problem with that is, if we're actually talking about like this era, like it's so much defined by LeBron, but when we talk about the game at large, like who's the one who changed the game? It was Steph, right?

We talk about Steph is changing the game. So after that, real quick, later in the email, I want to get your thoughts on that first, but later in the email, he does say, so the most recent era would be AC or AM after Curry or after

Mori, how would you break down the errors before that? Can we make this or at least after Brana thing? I don't think I'm endorsing any of this. Frankly? Sorry? Um, we are in the analytics era that will largely be attributed to Darrell because he was the first NBA GM who came from that background specifically. So there's going to like he's going to have a place in this discussion, but Dan Tony's going to have a place in this discussion for the pace and space era and, and then the proliferation of the three. And, Steph, of course, because of the way he changes the entire geometry of the game. Like, there's a lot of hands in reshaping the game the way we know it today versus 10 or 15 years ago.

And so, you know, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not acronyming any of those guys and saying it's, they're, they're the ones who get the era named after them. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, I guess let's do one more. Because I don't know, Roger, you have anything, man? Yeah. We have some pretty abstract questions. Let's do one more, bro.

Let's see if we have like one, like... Let's see you've got one good one. One good one. Let's have one good one. Let me find something here. This dude Kelly sent like 30 of them. Shout out to our fans, though, bro. That's fucking tight, bro.

I appreciate that, dog. All right, this is a really weird one. Amazing. This is off the cuff too. This is another one from Kelly who sent like 20 of them, like I said. Who are the top five least true hoopers? they are opposite to Katie and Kyrie, but still really good. Wait, what's the question?

What was the question? That's the top five least true Hoopers? Yeah, like, they get, like, they're good, solid NBA players, but they're not like, like, you know, like Katie and Kyrie, they have enough in their bag to where they can just get any shot, any bucket that they want, where, like, who are the top five, like, hoopers outside of that there are still really good. Like, maybe like a, like, a OG and an O-B type or somebody like that where they might not have the deepest bag, but they can, you know, still get your.

Bucky, play some defense, you know, play defenses on the floor, stuff like that. I'll rant, I'll rant, you got me, you got me, you got me, you got me. Fuck it, you got me, you got me, you got me. I here I am, I didn't want to do it, I'm here. You know what's ruined basketball? What's up? The fucking word bag. The three letters B-A-G have ruined basketball.

Who gives us shit what a bag looks like? No, I mean, listen, you got me? We're going to do this now, but like, people are brainwashed. People in these streets are brainwashed to respect a bag. Because someone can dance on a basketball and get nothing done with it, by the way. Nothing accomplished by your bag. This, this metaphorical bag that you're holding onto, I don't have shit in it by way of producing anything valuable except a clip for Instagram.

And motherfuckers are judging people's game, on whether or not they can do it. You know, y'all talked about this guy for him of Lamello Ball, like number one bag, bag. No, but listen, but listen to me about like, yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, Lamello would kind of fall into that, but like I, look, any, let's just, let's take it, let's take it back. Like, anybody in the NBA, bag or no is a unvathomably good basketball player.

You can't even understand the depths of which that person is good at basketball. basketball. Your brain can't comprehend it. I promise you that. Going to gym with him, like you watch them on TV. I always rail on this. You watch them on TV. You think it's cake. You're sitting at your keyboard talking reckless. Go in a gym with that dude and see what he does to you. But let's take it outside of the NBA where like we got kids and and college players and people running programs like real reputable programs that would look at this kid and that kid or this player and that player, and one is clearly a more productive basketball player that contributes to winning. And the other has this bag. And grown fucking adults will miss over and

over again for the bag. It's ruined basketball. The word has ruined basketball. Like it's, it hasn't ruined it. Let me stop. Like that's really, it hasn't ruined it. But it is really, really a dangerous word in the landscape of youth basketball. I promise you, it's a dangerous word because people are worried about that more than they're worried about learning how to play more than they're worrying about, you know, learning how to contribute to winning, boxing out, playing sound weak side defense, you know, taking charges, making reads out of pick and roll, understanding what happens when your man goes under a screen when it's time to, when it's time to fade if he shoots the gap versus if he's trailing you, I curly, like ain't nobody

worried about that. They're worried about a bag. So you're Yeah Is Jermon Green on your top five? Like who are you talking about? He didn't Fuck out of here, Cliff. Bro,

Draymond Green would eviscerate somebody. Eviscerate them. Also, bro, let's shoot Draymont to fucking bail, bro. He's nice. I like Draymond.

No, no, like Prime Dremon was like fucking out of here as an offensive weapon, bro. Bro, I think Grymon is nice. Give me any name.

Give me any name. All right, all right. Give me any name. I'm going to give you a name. I'm going to give you a name. Um, uh, shit.

Let me think, uh, I don't even know what the question. Chris Paul. Chris Paul. Chris Paul? Yeah. One of the greatest point of the greatest point

at all time. What? I should have, I mean, I should have clarified. Like, give me, give me any name of someone who you don't think is good.

Like, we need to do this exercise. Oh, no, no. I think, all right. who doesn't have. I, I was not, I had no bag.

I had no bag. My, my high school son, my freshman high school son, just just had a very, very, very good freshman year in high school. Like, he was one of the most prolific scores in Florida as a state as a freshman. That mofo would not score a point against me. Hawk your fucking shit, Roger. I liked that. I liked that. At 50, though.

No, I shouldn't. Like, he's a little quick. But if he could, if he make his first shot or if I got the ball first, he wouldn't score a point. And I'm 50 years old with no bag. So like that's what I'm trying. Like people get that twisted all the time about like your favorite NBA bum that you like to call. I used to argue with the Cleveland Clavs like front office about this shit. We'd be sitting around and we'd be looking at our doing our little grading sheet.

And I'd be hearing from across the table. He can't play. He can't play. And I would be like, oh, that is. What? I'd stop meetings. Like, bro, don't say that. Don't say that shit.

All right. What do you mean? How about two guys? I can think of the top. PJ Washington, Najee Marshall. Blue guys. What?

Glue guys that would hold your favorite rec ball player at the LA fitness that you see like dominating that comp. They won't score. They won't score. They would not score. Would not score. I loved it.

I love that. I want to do one more question. Just one more. is it good or is Roger gonna like fucking blow the door? No, that was good. That was good. I don't know how we can top Roger's ranchers now. That was amazing.

There's nowhere to go. You know it's crazy, you guys see that with bag, right? Like, I know I went off crazy and I do what I do. No, but like you guys see that.

Like the bag is the ridiculous. It's true. No, I'm absolutely with you. You know, they always omit the score whenever they showed them fucking highlights of people, right?

They all, they, they crop the video to where you can't really see the score. He'd be down by 30. Yeah, bro. You're down by 30. Yeah, no. Got out of here, man.

All right. All right. All right. So this is Rajas, Phoenix, sons. Matt Ishmaeus war crimes against Devin Booker. Oh, shit. This is, this is the title of this email. Jesus Christ.

Cedric here. Hey guys, Cedric here from Puerto Rico. Big fans this day one. And super excited about the heights you guys have reached, especially how we're back being aggregated and how much it irritates him. Hell yeah. Listen. Keep aggregating us, by the way.

Keep doing it. Lolo said it. Listen, what the hell is Devin Booker waiting for? Matt Ishbia clearly doesn't care about him and they've only rewarded his finals run with the league's most expensive dumpster fire. Why do we never hear his name when it comes to trade rumors or guys possibly wanting out?

I wanted to see what you guys thought about book and what his next few years may look like. It depends on him. What question? Depends on him. Is he going to, have we heard any whispers of Devin Booker saying this is some BS? and I want to leave. Have you heard that?

No, and if we did, I wouldn't say it because then fucking Legion Hoops would aggregate it and make it sound like a report. Side line sources. Sideline sources. I will say this. You know, there's also real quick, Howard, you knew you was getting aggregated

because you told people not to aggregate you. He knew the vibes. He knew the examples of dangerous when he took it. If Kevin Durant gets traded as everyone is speculating right now, right? Like, this is one of the most prominent bits of speculation across the league is like, this is it. The suns are circling the drain. The time to do this is now. Like, it didn't work. It's time to pull the plug, whether it's by Durant demanding out or whether the suns proactively

or whether it's mutually, whatever it is. But if Durant's gone, like, what is Booker staying for, right? Like, I'm not predicting anything. I'm not saying he should. But like, if Durant's gone and it's just Beale and Booker and whatever, a bunch of flotsam. like is Devin Booker going? Isn't that the natural next thing to happen? The next domino would be book saying, get me out, unless you got something good enough back for Durant. And probably what you're getting back for Durant is picks. You're trying to replenish your your stash of draft picks because you have none. So if that's the way you go, like what's Booker got to look forward to except for watching, you know, Bradley Beale's contract just plot on for another couple of years? So I do think that

one thing could follow the other. Whoa. Not whoa. Shut up. Whoa. Don't, don't encourage them. Oh, whoa. Don't encourage them.

What are you going to do, Roger? What's up? He goes warp in that corner. Whoa. He got a video for that, right? They dropped a video for that. I didn't even know, yeah, very recently. I think Wayne is on a remix actually, too.

It's terrible Wayneverse. Sorry. Roger don't listen to the remix. It's going to hurt your feelings. All right. With that being said, we got to go because in a few hours, I got to watch what Melo ball play basketball. So he's got a bag.

He's got a bag. Howard beat me to it. In more ways than one. All right. This has been great. Tap in, Rulwoodsmailbag at gmail.com. Rulwasmailbag at gmail.com. Rulwasmailbag at gmail.com.

Thank you, Howard Beck. Thank you, Roger Bell. Thank you, Cliff Augustine. We'll see you Friday. All this shit. Bye. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C.

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gandler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 188-88-889-7777 or visit CCPpG.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MDGamblinghelp. dot org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8778 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.