The Ringer NBA Show - The Knicks Do It Again! Plus, the Real OKC Shows Up, and What’s Behind the Round 2 Madness? | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos react to another improbable Knicks comeback victory to take a 2-0 lead over the Celtics. They discuss all the madness going on in the second round before talking about the Thunder bouncing back in a blowout victory to even their series with the Nuggets. They wrap things up by quickly taking a look at the two other semifinal series. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and listen to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 plus and present in select states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com hello and welcome group chat i am justin verrier and joining me the two alpha dogs from the conclave rob mahoney big wise rob does the man upstairs have anything to say about what we're witnessing in the NBA playoffs because I've lost all sense of what's happening because there have been no normal games thus far in the second round. I would like to believe that somebody on some level of existence

has a finger on the pulse of what we've been watching. But I don't feel super confident about that, Waz. Do you think the basketball gods are looking out for us? I think so. I think people did so much hand-wringing and complaining about the Eastern Conference playoffs of last season that he was like, all right, bet, watch this. And it's been exciting.

And, you know, as Justin hit up top, we got a fresh conclave going on. Got the black smoke today. Still haven't chosen a new pope. I'm reading stories in the New York Times about lobbying efforts from several different interests. People sending cases of wine to the Vatican from Navajo Valley, which is like... Was, first of all, people sending cases of wine. We all know you got your thumbs on the scales. Well, no, because I would never send Nassau.

Napa wine to Italy. I mean, look, I love Napa wine, but these people have been making wine for thousands of years. Maybe figure out a different type of gift. You know, I didn't see the plume of smoke go up today, but I have to imagine it had a faint whiff of Bing-Bong. That just kind of emanated out of it. Because I can't fucking believe what we just witnessed. The Knicks playing just a totally fine game.

They didn't play well until like the last five to six minutes end up upsetting the Celtics yet again. They're up now, 2.0. What the fuck is happening? I just have so many feelings of watching both of these first games where, you know, the Celtics come out and they look so clearly better on both ends. Like, they're generating all these great shots. They're scoring inside and out. They're defending the hell out of the Knicks, making Jalen Brunce's life a living just miserably.

and I'm like, okay, this seems like the series that I expected. And then inevitably they go up by 20 points in the third quarter. And I'm like, here we go again. And instead of stretching that lead to 26, the lead gets dwindled down to 12 in like an instant. And I'm like, okay, that's curious. But this happened in game one already. Clearly, this is not going to happen in game two. Of course not.

at home against a team that the Celtics are clearly better than this can't possibly be repeated. And what do you know, man, fourth quarter, the Celtics go insanely cold. McKell Bridges, I mean, I did talk about, you know when you get hit up on Twitter, you owe my favorite player in apology. I owe McKell Bridges an apology. I mean, defensively and offensively in the series, he's been money. and he was a big part of that fourth. And then the Celtics, I think,

ate it and abetted the Knicks in this robbery, to be honest, man. It was just, I don't know, it was just at a loss for words. Nick fans texted me, they're shaking. I have no words. I can't breathe. My chest is killing me. Nick fans, Nick fans,

don't even understand what has happened in these last two games. I think there's a temptation with any, like, one or two point game to say a lot of big things about both teams. And in most cases, I'm like, it's a one point game. It's a two point game. It's a random chance. It's playoff basketball. I think we can say a lot of big things about both of these teams based on these two games.

These felt declarative in a way that, yeah, we're grasping at what the meaning is exactly. But it feels telling that when push comes to shove, the Celtics are looking around and are unable to produce a single okay looking shot that is not a reason. reasonable three that is not a bad shot to take, but you need some kind of alternative and they fail to generate those consistently over these first two, or a full court, half court screen out route for Jason Tatum.

Like that's how much space and runway it took to get A Celtic going downhill. That feels insane for a team, for an offensive juggernaut. Justin, I have no idea why Boston has gotten so bogged down and so unable to create anything one-on-one all of a sudden. Like Tatum and Brown just look frozen out. Yeah, we talk about the Knicks defense eventually, but I thought that the Celtics offense, despite their lack of three-point success, had enough diversity to it, had enough contributors to get them to the point where they were up by 20.

You had Jalen Brown being very aggressive to start with. Derek White kind of pop laid on. He was getting into the paint. He was throwing up to some lobs to Cornette. And then KP even looked alive for the couple of minutes that he was able to play in this game. I was like, oh, there's enough here, right? But for whatever reason in the fourth quarter, maybe it's just because like things get. tense and they're so used to relying on the threes or Tatum and neither of them showed up that they

just don't know where to go from there because the numbers are ghastly over the past two fourth quarter so game one game two they have made nine field goals in totality they are nine for 45 it just seen wise like the nicks are used to playing in the mud and digging out answers whereas the Celtics tend to just get into disarray when these sorts of situations like present themselves. So I'm so happy you said that because in my estimation, I was like if the Knicks want to be in this series, they have to try to get out in transition.

They have to win on the offensive glass. They have to sell out on defense. The extra efforts, every 50-50 ball. They have to play like that team from last year, which you can ask anybody who watched this team this season all year, scant evidence that the team from last year still existed in this group until they played a freaking Boston Celtics apparently. And in the first quarter, I texted the group chat.

And I'm just like, guys, like the Knicks are actually scrapping on defense. They are making second efforts. They are pre-switching, you know, the bad screens. Like, they're doing all of the things that the best teams have to do. against Boston in order to put them in uncompromising positions. It's just for me, I hadn't seen this group coalesced that way. Bridges. Bridges and Ananobe, man, you know, there's been a lot of smut on their names,

myself included. I've been a part of throwing dirt on these guys' names all season. I'll be goddamn that they haven't, you know, proven the proof of concept when Leon Rose and brought them in this idea that we need these kind of wings that could stand up to the scrutiny. of that Boston Celtics onslaught. And OG is everywhere. I guess Boston figured out in the scouting report

that the guy likes to go right, so he didn't get to kill them on offense this game. But, like, defensively, he is just on it. And the last thing I want to say is that I don't want to take any credit away from the New York Knicks and what they're doing. But it feels like the Knicks don't have the Celtics respect. or at least watching the first two games,

I don't get the sense that the Celtics, the way they played, like you're down, you're down 01. You about to be down 0, 2, first two games at home. You are essentially playing for your season. O KC came out and treated it like it was their season on the line tonight. The Celtics kind of was like, ah, it's the Knicks. That's the Knicks.

And then they end up losing again in just insane fashion. It's just so much to go into. I don't want to hog up the mic, but the grit, man. And I hate the cliche. It's like, especially because it's the one that Nick fans just cling to the most. Like, oh, he's such a Nick type of player. He's so gritty.

Floor burns and all of that. But it's true. It's been true for two games. They go down 20 and do not quit. Do not fold. Do not bend. Do not break. And end up winning both games in dramatic fashion.

I take what you're saying about the respect point. I just wonder how much of it is that. how much of it is just these guys are not in physical condition to do it. Like, it's not like, as we said, it's not like they're not trying on defense. It's not like they're not getting after it. But Jason Tatum looks mentally on a different plane of existence, especially during the fourth quarter. That was nine minutes of the fourth quarter where they did not hit a field goal.

That's, that's Tatum time historically. There are possessions where Jalen Brown has Jalen Brunson in ISO and is trying to bait out bullshit fouls. And I'm sitting there wondering like, why? would he do that? And is it because, and we saw him bully Josh Hart earlier in this game, he had moments of one-on-one scoring, but ultimately those two guys combined for 13 to 42 from the field. That's just not nearly good enough, even for a team that has all these options, even for a team that's theoretically this balance, because I feel like New York has done such a good job of

taking away all of the downhill mechanisms of Boston's offense. And so then it's just passing around the perimeter and waiting for the semi-open three to materialize. And Justin, there's just like such a huge difference to me between taking a bunch of threes because they're there versus like taking a bunch of threes as a point of strategic advantage based off of good action and flow like these don't feel like amazing shots they feel like okay shots and there's still a lot of them yeah well let's talk about that next defense because i think coming out of game one all you heard was variance you know they miss a historic amount of three pointers i think in total now they have missed 75 threes between the two games

not taken 75 they've missed that many of them was how much of this is lack of success versus the switching that the nicks are now employing the physicality like if you're just like to break this up via pie style like what's getting the biggest piece so like i think that this is what the playoffs exposes about the concept of shock quality right there's there's the step back three going to your left that tatum loves to take that when you're up eight or nine and it sends you to 12 or 11 with five minutes to go. That's just like a, ah, like a nice three. When it goes in, the crowd goes crazy. We've iced it and it just feels amazing. That sounded refreshing as you were talking about it. That same shot when you haven't

made eight shots in a row, seven possessions in a row, it just has a different feel towards the game. Now your whole team has a feeling of resignation. Like, God, we're settling for shots against this team that is kind of walking us down right now. So I think some of the shots like, yeah, it's cool in the regular season. It's cool when there's no stakes. But when it is a life or death moment, at a certain point, like, there was one possession within the midst of all of those misses in the fourth where I think it's Josh Hart gets switched on the Tatum. and Josh Hart is a formidable defender, but he's giving up five inches to Tatum.

And Tatum drives, but he drives into his Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, baseline, fadeaway like Bernard King, right? Instead of driving to finish with length over the 6-3 guy who's guarding him. And I thought that was emblematic of what they were doing down the stretching while they were struggling. It's like even when you have the right eye, idea and the nix are discipline.

Don't send any help. It's like you're driving to set up your pretty Kobe move. Instead of driving to get fouled. And by the way, we used to kill Tatum for being horrible finishing at the rack. And he's gotten much better at it. Guess what? He didn't try to do none of his rack finishes in the fourth. This thing that I've watched him do all year be way better at.

He didn't attempt to do none of that. It was all the dribble, dribble, dribble, step back, fade away, pretty jump shots. That was what was disappointing to me about it. Yeah, those guys have to be punishers. That's what made Boston champions is they had all these threes, obviously. It's a great source of base offense.

But when push came to shove, Jalen Brown last season was physically overwhelming people going to the basket and creating space in the mid-range. Tatum was finishing so aggressively. Chrisapskforzengis was killing everyone who would dare to switch on him from the free throw line in.

That was like an automatic basket. none of those things are working right now. And so then it's like, okay, when, again, when you hit these moments, where are you turning for offense? And you flash to the other side of the court and you have Jalen Brunson, hitting clutch shot after clutch shot. You have OG and McHill Bridges turning up baskets. You have Kat, I think, crucially, playing big in a game where he has to play big.

Like, that is so important in this matchup and he delivered. I just don't think Boston has those sorts of answers right now. And it's not like the Knicks are hitting threes. They can't shoot for shit either. They just have other answers. it's crazy that you mentioned that because I was trying to think back to like the stretch where the Knicks were

just like really cruising offensively until they hit their stride late in the game and it was really like cat in the post against Al Horford in the double big lineup and they did that for like three straight possessions they went back to it in the second half and then all of a sudden he was doing that

against wings and he couldn't overpower them the Celtics wings are bigger he would just have to put it on the floor he wasn't getting depot position post position and just like wasn't working And so I'm just like there really weren't many answers for the Knicks in this game. It really did come down to some of the things we're talking about, the grit and all this other stuff. I guess the one thing we should talk about in addition to that, because if the Tatum play was the one big thing, just like not making the time out, letting Tatum just go and him kind of fumbling his way into that turnover.

It was also following Mitchell Robinson. Yeah. Specifically to get him off the floor. And Robb, so like on the one hand, Mr. Robinson super impactful in this game. Obviously, he was guarding Tatum up top. in that final crucial possession. Doing that, though, I mean, just yet another foul situation,

much like the Thunder in game one, where it's just like, why is this happening? I genuinely don't know that I've ever seen this version of this tactic before. Wait, wow, there wasn't a tactic.

They did hacker and the Knicks were not in a bonus, so all they did was put the Knicks in a bonus. That's what I'm talking about. And specifically, Missoula said afterward is because Robinson was playing so well, He wanted to get him off the floor. But then you're just willfully putting your team in the bonus minutes ahead. If not, maybe they would have never been in the bonus.

Like maybe there's a universe where the refs are looking at that final Jalen Brunson foul and saying, oh, that happened before the gather. Maybe that's not a shooting foul. Maybe that's side out. Like maybe that's too close to call in that instance. Maybe that's clearly a shooting foul. I'm just saying like, you got to leave yourself some wiggle room with this stuff and not take fouls for no reason. with all due respect to Mitchell Robinson, who did have a big impact on this game and has had a much bigger impact on the series than we certainly forecasted, he's not worth that.

I just don't. I just don't see it. Guys, all we've heard and learned all year is Mitchell Robinson is the exact kind of big the Celtics want to face. They want to put him in panic. They want him to navigate screens. They want him on the floor. This is not prime Kevin Garnett we're talking about here. We're not talking about today's Evan Mobley.

These Swiss Army knife, they will guard the hell out of your point guard, no different than your center. Like, we're not talking about these special generational talents. Mitchell Robinson is a great rim defender, moves his feet pretty decently, great rebounder on both fence. Cool. The Celtics offense design. Even that might be strong. He's a pretty good rim protector. He's a quite good rebounder, but fouls this shit out of every defense.

everybody and usually can't stay on the floor or healthy. The Celtics offense is designed precisely to attack his prototype. So now he's having, it's like all we ever hear about Joe Mazz is like, yo, this guy believes in the process. He believes in the numbers. He believes in like, you know, like analytically, I get it. This guy's having a good game, but we're going to put him in conflict and generate good shots for ourselves down the stretch because this is what our identity is completely

predicated upon. I think trying to get Mitchell Robinson out the game is just a that's like a say uncle that I don't pretend. I don't understand that. Yeah. It is a lot of dogma, a lot of big picture thinking colliding with small decisions and just like pragmatism of some of these other teams. And you're seeing it time and time again, even to the point where it's like, yes, the Celtics three point volume is revolutionary. Like even this year, they managed to put 10 more attempts up on last year's historical. pace, but like, Missoula will still even default to Biggs whenever he has to mess with his

lineup. And it's one thing when it's Christophe Rzingus, he has such an advantage, especially against Carl Anthony Towns. I thought Cornett was pretty awesome in this game. Defensively, oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, he was catching lobs too, but he will always default to more bigs as opposed to doing anything like a little bit more creative. I mean, how many O'Shea Burset conversations did we have last year? It just felt like those things compounded, Whereas the Knicks just have such a streamlined approach to this where it's like Brunson, let's go, clutch time. We know he's going to get a bucket even though he was awful up until that moment.

It's just like, I don't know what to do here, Rob, if we're looking forward because you would have to back, basically just up and who the Celtics are in all of this. Like, are you seeing any sorts of things that might be like takeaways, adjustments for the next game? I mean, as far as takeaways go, I think a lot of what we're describing in terms of the discrepancy in how these two teams played and executed and carried themselves in the fourth quarter is a discrepancy of belief, right? Like there is a belief that what we're doing is working, that this is going to generate good

shots, that we know where to go in order to create good offense. And like, give the ball to Jalen Brunson is simplistic and it flattens out your offense, but it's also very straightforward in terms of everyone knowing exactly what the score is and exactly what to do. It doesn't feel like Boston knows what to do. And it feels like they're not entirely trusting their process. And you can even see some of this with Joe, too, where coming out of game one, Missoula was very protective and defensive of the shot profile.

That the fact that, you know, it is about the process. This isn't too many threes. This is a winning formula. We just have to execute it better and play harder and make some adjustments. He said all that. And then the Celtics came into this game, first quarter, driving aggressively, posting up, trying to establish all these alternative forms of offense that by the fourth quarter just like weren't there anymore.

And so it's telling me like they understand on some level that they need these other things, but they're desperate for ways to not just create them, but to sustainably create them. I think that's going to be the hard part when you got OG in your jersey the whole game, when you got Mikhail flying around the floor, when you got Duce McBride coming in and playing really good high pressure defensive minutes in a way that's actually kind of mucking up your offense a little bit. Yeah, I would say the only thing that you can hang your hat on if you're the Celtics is it's not like the nigs have like this track record

of varying teams and they're going to finish you all or whatever. It's a new group. You know, many of these guys haven't been very far in the playoffs. You have that. And also it's like your defense has been good, you know, like it's been good enough to win. It's your offense that like has become your identity.

And if you could just be even closer to what you're known for, I think everything will be fine. But even in that sense, the Knicks, you know, God forbid they ever run a play for Carl Anthony Towns. There were even times where Boston was switching Derek White onto Towns. And the Knicks didn't find him or whatever. And in Towns would be like, you know what, I'll go in for offensive rebound or whatever. I think if the Knicks, the Knicks can improve in terms of their offensive process. but I don't know how you

how I'm supposed to not think the Celtics don't have potential for offensive growth like of course. Yeah, they do. This is crazy what we've witnessed for two games in a row. They should win. Just like they should have won these last two games. That other things is what's stopping us in our tracks is like the

math is there. They should win these games. You're right. Like the Knicks had a 95 offensive rating, 95 points for 100 possessions. that's a winning margin for any other game that the Celtics play. For some reason, tonight it was a losing one

and a game one it was a losing one. So what are we supposed to make of that? But the problem with two games in the bag for the Knicks if you're the Celtics is what happens when Tatum tweaks his ankle in a game?

What happens when Jalen Brown gets in foul trouble in a game? Like, what happens? Yeah. You know, like now you can't sustain those weird things. Steph Curry freaking strained his hamstring

yesterday or whenever it was. Like, these are the things that happen over the course of a playoff series. That's why all of these games count. All of these games matter. And, you know, just the Celtics not winning this going away,

you know, coming out like a bat shot out of hell. It's quite, quite disturbing. It's very reminiscent of the Heat series from two years ago in the East Finals where it's like you get down and you still want to believe in your belief system. You still want to push the math on the threes.

But now is Tatum going to start being like, well, actually, I need to do more. When maybe in actuality, you need him to just be who he has been, right? You don't want him to press because that's when they start to get a little bit funky here. Yeah, the fact that this has been a defensive slob knocker is just like so startling. These are the two of the juggernaut offenses, even though the Knicks slipped in the second half of the season. Obviously, they have the firepower there. the Celtics ended up scoring three fewer points than the Thunder scored in the first half of their game against the Denver Nuggets. And just to put some history to this Celtics first team to blow multiple 20 point leads in the same postseason in the play-by-play era that's since 96, 97.

Yeah, these 20-point leads don't mean what they used to, obviously, because like I remember when I first started watching basketball, If a team had a seven point lead, it felt damn near insurmountable, honestly, especially 90s and early 2000s basketball, late 90s, where it was just, you know, these games ending in the 70s. There were Pistons games that would end in the 60s. These kids haven't seen Al Jefferson in the post for multiple possessions, you know, that used to be an entire quarter of basketball. I know.

We're losing recipes. We're really messing up as a society. But yeah, just a couple of things I wanted, just one last thing I wanted to highlight. Carl Towns and Justin, I think you kind of mentioned it. In the first quarter, when the Knicks got down by 13, and I was like, all right, well, this is going to end up being the blowout and, you know, one, one back to New York. Carl Towns just started dominating. He just started demanding the ball, Al Horford, I don't care, and won on you, getting rebounds, pushing it. He just started playing way better and kept the Knicks within.

you know, some level of striking distance before things could get out of hand. I thought that was amazing. And again, Mikhail Bridges in the fourth quarter just being a mid-range and long-range assassin. And, you know, he's got this quirk to his game where he just doesn't take layups. Like, he drives to shoot mid-rangers. But he's, you know, he's obviously really efficient at it. And in the fourth, that thing was on full display, man. It's just hard to be.

And obviously Brunson in the clutch. Yes. I mean, we can gloss over the Brunson piece of this, because he did have kind of a weird Brunson game where he then came through in the end. But carrying this effort was Cat and Bridges and OG and death by a thousand Josh Hart cuts. Like that is how the Knicks won.

I will say carrying over from on the cat point, I do worry about like just him physically because as he was going, like they were going to him more in the post, he was also switching on to the best like ball handler on the other hand. And it seemed like he was wearing down pretty, pretty quickly. And so maybe that is partly why they went a little bit more aggressive with offense, defense,

Robinson obviously played well enough in order to make it work. Roz, like when does, when does Bridges, when do we start forgetting in New York everything that happened in the regular season? He becomes like a guy. I think it's already happened. It was game one,

right? Like, game one stop at in crunch time. Like that's it. 100%. He was pretty damn good against Detroit too. If the Knicks, first of all, like, that's another thing. I'm trying to think of the last time a Knicks win felt this way.

And it sounds dramatic, but I'm pretty sure it's the four-point play, LJ, against the Pacers in 1999. I'm talking about the, you're not wrong. The most, like, the most dramatic Nick victory. This is 25 years apart, guys. Okay, for a second round win on the road. But it's like the defending champion on the road, just the drama is crazy. But like, if the Knicks go to the conference finals,

if the Knicks go to the conference finals, like I'm pretty sure all of the guys on this team will have their jerseys retire at some point for the New York Knicks. That's how dramatic it is. Jalen Brunson already was never going to buy another drink in the city for the rest of his life. Can we at least get like a sandwich named after OG somewhere?

Like is that within our power to do? Kat Stelly, get on it. And a no BLT or something. See, now we're cooking with fucking gas, Justin. Let's go. Well, I'm trying to think, well, the biggest Nick's postseason moment was in between. It was probably a Mari Saddemeier punching the fire hydrant, like at least in terms of memorable. Because those, those mellow years really did not have much of it.

They got to the second round against the Pacers and got dominated. And that was their first second round appearance. I'm pretty sure since 2000 or 2001 or something insanely. Alan Houston was still on the team, okay? By the time that happened yet, like this is, because again, I remember that 99 playoffs the entire run like it was yesterday, like beating Miami who they hated as in 8 seed at the buzzer, Alan Houston, back when we only played five games

in game five, they absolutely destroyed the Hawks, you know, Steve Smith and those guys. Then they played the Pacers, who was their other just arch rival. And yeah, man, the LJ continuation four-point play in St. Patrick

Ewing didn't play the whole playoffs. It was like this ridiculous kind of Cinderella run to it. It felt just like, the entire playoffs felt like a dream almost. watching this, you know, it was Spreewell's first year, just a crazy rag-tag group of guys. But, yeah, I just don't remember this feeling around the Knicks

and the success feeling like, oh, no, this is like concrete, a legitimately talented team, you know, doing this. It's crazy. Like, I checked my social media earlier. They're like half of them I literally couldn't play on the pod. There's so many expletives and just crazy. craziness happening. It's really something.

We should do that, though. Next time. Yeah. Play the victory round, maybe. So this is probably the craziest series on the board at this point, but certainly there's competition in the second round. According to our friend Zach Cramm, there have been four games already where a team has had a 98 or more win probability and lost.

It was the two Celtics games, the first Thunder game and Cavs game two. I think one of the takeaways should just be that like maybe fuck win probability forever and ever. I don't want to see another chart out there ever again. I think the other thing is like this has been an absolutely wild second round just building upon what we had in the first round. I don't want to jinx it because we still got a ways to go here, but this has been an incredible postseason.

I'm just curious if you guys have any thoughts and why things have been so wonky in this second round. I have like just like a working theory that I'm kind of noodling on. where I do wonder if we're reaching a tipping point in terms of three-point volume. And we're seeing a lot of teams who have been overly reliant on that, get into situations like we said with the Celtics, where it comes down to nut crunching time. And there are teams that are a little bit more pragmatic,

a little bit more physical, perhaps have a go-to guy that they're used to going to. And so they just maybe have the muscle memory for that. Just looking at the three-point attempts just from the regular season, Celtics were first by far. Cavs are fourth, wolves were fifth, okay, see, 10th. And even 10th, like, you're taking 39 a game, which would have been right up there, like, I think top three, top five somewhere last year.

So part of me thinks like, well, maybe that's too easy. But I do think maybe in this word cloud of things, that's part of it. Rob, are you seeing anything? Like, does this pass the smell test or is there anything else going on here? I do think that is part of it. Clearly, three-point variance has just been a wrinkle of this particular era of NBA, history and it started tilting things in that direction. I wonder if we're just kind of getting the payoff of the NBA's parody era in general of

team, you know, definitely like not quite so much stratification or at least not as much as the thunder's win total might lead you to believe, although they certainly said otherwise tonight, certainly not as emphatically as, you know, Boston and Cleveland's win totals would have led you to believe. I think that's all part of it. I also think, like, teams are getting really smart at how they're junking up the game. We've seen so much zone. so much zone defense

and so many teams that just like don't quite know what to do with it in part because there are these weird hybrid zones that are shifting in and out of man that aren't quite identifiable right out of the gate that are hard to like go into a timeout and quickly diagnose

and then come out and know exactly what you're going to see and so yeah I think what you're seeing is the teams that are winning are the teams that do have those bona fide shot creators that do have the really high level passing processors but also the teams that didn't have to kill themselves to get here right the teams that is sprint

down the like the stretch of the regular C and whether that was to get through some of the muck of the play-in, whether that was to get out of the sixth seed and try to get out of the seventh seed and try to solidify yourself in the playoff bracket. Like, I think there's just been a cost in terms of teams really burning out a bit down the stretch in order to get to this place.

Now, that doesn't explain what's going on with the Cavs and the Celtics. Like, that's a totally different case. But as far as some of these teams in the middle, I think that's part of the puzzle. Yeah, I remember maybe like a week or two ago, or maybe like a couple weeks ago, Brian Winhorse was on with Bill, and he was talking about why he loves the international game so much.

And he's like, because that 40 minutes, it's like the players have a hard time adjusting to how quick that goes. He's like, there's a mentality we're like, all right, we're down 15. We're down 20. Like, it's going to be fine. I think that mentality of a 48-minute game, I think that's a new thing that every team. has adopted. I remember that I distinctly remember the first team who know

20 point lead was safe and that was the 73 and 9 Warriors. Yeah. We're like we'd be watching them on lead pass. They'd be down a bunch to a team and then it's like, oh, here they go. They did it to the clippers a bunch of times in that era too

where the clippers would come out. They'd be up 18 and then inevitably the dubs would come back and ultimately win that game. That's the first team. that I associated that, like, no 20-point lead is safe ever. And now it's like any quality team, no matter who they're playing against, is not out of a game.

And I really do think, like, teams back in the days, like, there's just, like, you know, like, there's something to, like, understanding what's possible, right? where the more you see it happen, the more you understand that you can do it. Back in the days, I think guys would have just been like, yo, it's the third quarter. We're down 22.

You know, like tomorrow's another day. Even though it's the playoffs, we'll lose the first game of the series or whatever. We've already, in these case, like, we've got a bird in the hand on the road. We're going back home. It would be completely fine. I think that would, they would have just let good enough leave it alone.

Yeah. But nowadays, I think everybody has that belief in that mentality that they could come back from any deficit. We've been actually getting some emails flooding in to the group chat email address, ringer group chat at gml.com. Shall I see you for checking. I look. I do read them. I do read them genuinely. We got an email from Gabriel who was asking us after game one.

Granted, this was before this game. Are we thinking any differently about the Pistons after the Knicks showing against the Celtics? No. No? None whatsoever for you on us. No, absolutely not. Everything we just said. Yeah.

No, I think Detroit, like, I think Detroit is good. I don't not think they're a good team, but do I think, like, Toby Harris and Malik Beasley and Timothy Hardaway Jr. are foundational quality playoff players? Timothy Hardaway. Is he in trouble? I don't think those guys are like the foundations of a rock-solid playoff group. I really don't. But maybe I'm being too dismissive.

I think that they scale well from here. Whereas like if you look at the Pacers as the example of like their Midwest brethren who has like clearly a guy as your focal point, you have, if anything, more powder because they've drafted more high, like they have more high draft picks in order to either go get that person or just add them to Jaden Ivy and Assar Thompson and whatever else they've built. And so, and I think all that they need are kind of plug in place shooters in order to. get by. And so while maybe Malik Beasily we get overpaid, maybe Tim Hardaway, Timothy Hardaway, will get overpaid. Like, I do think you could replicate that with somebody else more easily than something that's a little bit more foundational. But I guess the overall point is that we're kind of in the abundance era for NBA talent. Is that kind of where we're going for it? That might be it, you know? Well, is that partly why we're seeing so much zone then? Is it because there are just more

credible players in order to execute that sort of thing? Is it because you could throw that out there because, you know, threes are going to matter so much more. So just like jostling the offense, like throwing something new at them actually matters because then they have to think a little bit more. Like, why is there so much zone right now? I think teams that just have more practice at it. Instead of it being some kind of gimmick change up, it's actually.

part of the core, you know, like, like instead of it being a knuckleball, it is more like a curve ball, right? Where like a knuckle ball feels like a gimmick and just like some side show. It's like, no, this is a legitimate strategy that we can deploy depending on the opponent. I think another thing, which I have talked about

on our show before, 15 years ago, there just were not very many bench units that could erase a 15 point deficit. Like, I'm sorry, You go to your eighth and ninth guys. They're so bad at offense. There's no way they are generating the juice to cut your 19 point deficit to seven.

Like, it's just not happening 15 years ago. I think that is part of it too, Justin. You're right. The talent being so spread out up and down the lineup where it's like there's dangerous guys constantly in there. Whereas, you know, I think like a really, like you think. You think about somebody on OKC who they got like four guys

who fan bases 15 years ago would be bragging about how great their six man is. Like, oh, we have a super sub. They have like four of these dudes in their rotation that do not start. Sometimes they don't play depending on the matchup. Who I can clearly see in my minds I would have been special bench players

for certain teams back in a day. So I think the firepower element does add something to it. I think with the zone too, you're seeing teams confront orthodoxy a little bit. Like there's all these rules about zones. Like you don't run zone

against teams that can really shoot. You don't run zone against teams that can offensive rebound. You don't run zone against teams that can cut. It's like, well, what if all the teams that can shoot in the modern NBA

don't offensive rebound? Because they're all so spaced out and they're all playing so small. Like, are you really doing a dual threat? Do you really have both of those vulnerabilities if you just play zone for a little bit? And I think all the rules about zone two are from an era of man-to-man or like base shell defense where you could expect to hold up.

And the realities of the modern NBA are you're not going to hold up. The offense is one. The arms race is over. These teams will score on you and kill you, not if you can't take away threes, but if you can't defend space. And so I think we've seen this transition from teams learning and trying to adjust on the fly to, okay, we got to close out to three. We got to take away these shots for these guys.

We're not going to leave Steph open. but Brandon, Benjamin Pajemski, we're going to live with some of those, you know, Gary Payton, certainly you're going to take

Draymond Green, certainly you're going to take, and you're going to get burned by some of those sequences, but I think we've seen teams have tremendous success going through like a mental shift in what is allowable for a zone defense

and what you can stick with relative to the supposed vulnerabilities that have been there for decades and decades. That makes sense. Well, one of those teams that's like navigating that space, I think, better than anyone,

especially tonight, was the Oklahoma City Thunder. Oh, yeah. A little bit different than game one. This was over pretty quickly. As I mentioned before, 87 points in the first half alone. That is an NBA playoff record.

So this one was nuts just perhaps slightly different than it was in game one and maybe in some of these other games. I don't know what to talk about here. I kind of want to instantly be like they use J. Woolmore and that's like a pretty interesting wrinkle that we might see a little bit later on. I flag that too. We should come back to that.

But I think ultimately this felt so much more like a thunder game just from the jump from an energy standpoint in terms of Shay's involvement and the pressure he was putting on the game. But yeah, they have so many guys who they can twist the rotation and it still works and it still feels like the thunder. Like they still feel like they're playing within their identity. And I think that's what makes them such a great like contender to forecast and such an easy team to believe in is, yeah, in this game Alex Caruso is going to play a huge part. And this game, Jay Will is going to play a huge part. and this game Aaron Wiggins is going to play a huge part or Isaiah Joe or whoever. Like they just have those bodies.

And ultimately, too, I thought this is a really strong response game from Chet, who I think could have come out of game one where he could ice that game at the free through line. Kind of blew it, to be honest with you. And I think messed up on some other critical rotations in that game as well,

came into this one like a bad out of hell, flying through the open court, attacking, attacking, attacking, attacking, and exactly the way you would want to see if you're the thunder. So, I mean, a resounding effort in every possible respect, but certainly one for Chad in particular.

A couple of things. I thought the thunder, I mean, offensively, like the way these guys were getting out on the break, you know, splashing every single three, like they were just on another plane offensively.

But I thought defensively is where they set the tone, especially in their physicality with Yokic, which I think is going to be something to watch. watch. This is what I mean, like, when I always say, like, physicality is going to favor the smaller team. They can't guard Yokic just straight up. They have to be able to put hands on him and physically abuse this guy and get some level of leeway. Like, if they're not getting a quick whistle on that, then they now have a chance to do their Oklahoma City thing defensively with the swarm and all of that stuff. And I thought they set a tone.

man, they freaking, they smacked Yokic, like with a bunch of forearm shivers. And he wasn't able to get good positioning. And even when he did, you know, the little bees were swarming around them and stuff like that. I thought defensively, they set an amazing tone to start the game. And that's what really got this thing cracking is that they were like, Yokic, you're not going to bully us and beat us up today like you did in game one. And that, to me, got everything rolling downhill to where these guys, of shooting three

these, it's not even touching the net. It's like the rim, excuse me. These shots were just complete cash all night long. And I hate to sound like an old school type of guy. But yeah, they did that on defense, man. I swear to God. Wins championships, maybe. Good.

That's probably a good segue into the J-Wool stuff because the Thunder went out, basically beyond the starting lineup, played one big. and we're basically asking Yokish to play in space a lot of the time. And I pointed that out in our group chat, which I pretty sure I went back and deleted the next day. But neither here nor there. I obviously didn't work down the stretch here.

But then they played J.Will a little bit more here. We're a little bit more ready to play two bigs. Jaywell with Chet in those rotation. Cruso got in there in the second quarter and whatnot. But that's a nice little adjustment there that I think could pay dividends because if he's going to hit shots and be respected offensively, he's a big body who can move and really just fits what they're doing. And that's the whole advantage of the Thunder, Rob, is that they just have like options of the same type of guy

that they could just cycle through in order to find the right matchup. And in this case, I'm sure that has a little something to do with the fact that in game one, the Thunder just got pulverized on the glass. They just needed more size out there, period. And so you put J-Wil out there. It's very familiar formula. We've talked about it many times.

You put him on Yokic. You have Chet roaming behind him. Now you're feeding into that, that swarming vibe of the defense overall. Great. That's a wonderful premise for any team to kind of have to be able to toy with in the middle of a series. The wrinkle here is like those two guys,

Chet and J. Will, played 59 total minutes together in the entire regular season. This was not a combination that was in the Thunder's pocket. It was not something that was part of their arsenal. They did not really do it. I think some of it is in this series. It makes sense for a lot of reasons to play Chet as a little bit more of a four than an optional five,

at least when Yokic is out there, like put multiple bigs out there when Yokich is on the floor, have J. Will, have Hardenstein, bully the hell out of him as much as possible, have Chet as a roamer,

you know, really eating up shots on the back line and warding off any potential drivers. Like this, this is part of what O'KC was doing so effectively defensively too, is yeah, they're swiping down,

wasn't exactly the way you're saying on Yokic, body him up, taking shots. When Yokic kicks out, they're so fast at getting to Jamal Murray in the corner, to Michael Porter in the corner,

to Christian Brown on the perimeter. Those guys didn't have to put the ball on the ground and, oh, Chad Holmgren's waiting for you because he's roaming off as somebody. You know, like, you may have to live with the occasional like Aaron Gordon III that results from that, but I think it's easily worth it. If you can just get Denver caught in that cycle

and just as importantly get the nuggets supporting players around Yokic sped up to a degree that they're just making mistakes all over the place. Yeah, I think this will ultimately come down to this proprietary stat that I've been working on. It's called Piss Your Pants Factor. How do you measure that? Just in like volume, cubic volume or gallons?

I don't know. Just, you know, obviously didn't go well for the Thunder in game one. For like across the board, even Mark Dagnall, just with some of the decisions to follow that with that much time in the clock, everyone's been talking about. We're going to have to get into it again. Even in this game, it's like Chet played well. But then he's just like kind of recklessly dribbling up the core and he's like fumbling away and Yokish just instantly kind of swats it. It's just like those type of things in the wrong situation just tend to show themselves with

the thunder in particular. It's just like you got to watch out for it. I mean, maybe they just blow them out so badly that they don't get into those situations and that's the solve, which is great. Honestly, it's very Celtics in that regard. But we are going to have to wait until the next very close game because there are a lot of guys that are going to have to quit themselves. as far as the proprietary stats go, though, who's

pissing their pants and in relation to whom? Yeah, they were a 40. Well, in this game, but yeah, there was a very low piss pants factor. I see, I see, okay. You was talking about game one. Yeah, yeah, I have a, I have minus 1.2 piss pants. Okay, okay, good.

But in game one, yeah, I'm talking more like plus 15. Yeah. I mean, that was. Yeah, truly. historic never been done an NBA playoff history before a plus 15 piss your pants factor it's crazy most most in the play by play era yeah

but yeah that's all you have to watch out for with them but this was exactly what you wanted to see and what I expect one hundred percent proud to see the thunder come out in a legitimately I would say this season was over if they lost tonight yeah

and these guys played like it they played like it was a game seven like you know I was on my couch thinking about it. I was like at times it feels like the the nuggets are on a like a Sunday leisurely stroll and like the the thunder are

playing as if their families are being held hostage if they don't win they'll like die or whatever. Like that was the difference in the game to me just watching it. It was like they were in a taken movie. See I agree with the thunder part of that. I thought the nuggets were playing pretty hard and we're getting

after it. I just think it's really fucking hard to play against the thunder. And it did not go well from the jump and then just like it was a landslide from that point. Some of the stuff where like you're giving an entry pass and you're not taking the extra step to move towards it. Sure. Right? And you're like

to me that's absent minded. Like you know who you're playing against. Yep. Right? You're an NBA player. Like you have to be more forceful about how and where you catch it. When you catch it on a low block, you have to know these guys are coming.

Like, there's just a way that they approached it, that it just felt like getting poked from behind. Like, you dribble past somebody, they're poking from behind. I'm like, y'all not going hard enough, bro. These guys are trying to kill you. They were trying to take their heads off tonight. And I'm glad they did that. It sends a dope message, and it makes game three in Denver that much more fun

and more anticipated, man, because Denver got embarrassed, and now they have to respond. That's the beauty of the playoffs. All right. Since we're looking ahead, why don't we look ahead on some of these other series that are going on here? I love the thrill of the first round, but like second round is really you can really just dig in. It's a nice, hardy meal. You got two a night.

You can really just like watch everything as opposed to flipping back and forth with NBA TV. It's great. Obviously, got to start with Steph Curry out for a week. Grade 1 left hamstring strain. So a week from today on Wednesday would be game five, which means that he's most. likely going to miss at least two through four. And then he's just going to be re-evaluated in a week. So we don't know if he is going to play game five.

Tough one. So, was, unless the new splash bros of Buddy Heald and Draymond Green can replicate what they had and then some in game one, this one seems pretty tough. Steph Curry's not out for a week. This is not a one-week injury.

Oh, you're saying more. Like, yeah. Yeah. Like, there's no way this guy's playing in a week. I refuse to believe that's going to happen, dude.

These injury, this is like, at best, this is like a three-week injury. And usually in the regular season, somebody's Steph age, we'd be talking about a month and change on this one. Also, someone who plays Steph Curry stop and start basketball. That's tough on the old hammies. I don't think Steph's going to be back for this series, guys. Like, I know it's a good idea for them to say it to, like, keep the pressure on Minnesota.

I don't think the guy's going to be back now. Can they still beat Minnesota? Sure seemed like it in game one. I'd tell you that. I'd say Minnesota felt the pressure regardless of the announcement. That was- It sure seemed like it. Truly amazing.

13 points in 13 minutes to start the game. He looked incredible. I was like, wait a minute. These guys is going to smoke these guys this series. So, I mean, look, I would love for Steph to have a miraculous comeback. It just feels like hamstring is. It's like one of the most common injuries in sports. You know, and like guys don't just take a week off after a hamstring strain.

Like, that's never been the case. So why would I think he's going to be back for game five? And I have enough respect for Minnesota's talent in coaching that they're probably going to beat a diminished golden state warriors. But maybe, you know, I would love to be wrong about this. This is the cost for us. You know, we met the devil at the crossroads. We gave him Steph's hamström. in exchange for all these buzzer beaters,

all these crazy series. And this is the one we got to forfeit, unfortunately. It was looking like a great series. I was really looking forward to Steph torching those guys in the way that he did in those opening minutes was

that you laid out. It looked like he was going to get whatever he wanted against a really elite defense. And to see that push and pull was going to be so much fun. Now, instead, we have to see if the wolves

can kind of get out of their own way. And if they can calm down enough to execute against a really high-level defense with or without Steph. You know, and maybe even, some cases better without Steph. Not to say that Steph's a bad defender, but you replace him with, you know, a murderer's

row of guys who are going to come with a ton of energy and are going to be flying around the court in a totally different way. It changes the dynamic of the series. You know, the spotlight is on Ant now to show that he can do again to the Warriors what he did against a much, like a fundamentally different and I would say ultimately softer Lakers defense, right? That was a different challenge in order to pick them apart. This is going to be a tough team to pick apart.

12 and 76 from 3 over the past two games that is an NBA record which when they told Ant about that after the game he was more startled than any he was mortified the eyes popped out of his head I don't know I feel like there's like a non-zero possibility that the wolves are going to play some of the most like ugly games that we've seen this postseason and then make the NBA finals but this is all of a sudden in play yeah and you know the Warriors are high motivated. We know Draymond absolutely detests and hates Rudy Gobert. We know that the freaking coach is already crying. He's doing his Darry send the clips of

They're all doing it, to be fair. Curr's doing it too. Everybody's doing it. Blah, blah, blah. But don't admit it in public. That's nasty work. Just like you're way's bigger than the Warriors. Beat them up, man. Get the position. Stop crying, man. No excuses play like a champion.

But I, they played so horrible in the game one. It was so bad. It was so horrible. They just have to play like kind of better and win and they'll win. Let me ask you this. What would be more surprising? The wolves making the finals or the Indiana Pacers making the finals at this point? You already know the answer.

Oh no, it's the wolves. It's definitely the wolves. It's definitely the wolves. Definitely the wolves. Rob, how is the, uh, your corn boys, uh, group chat right now? It's just like a million messages per game. Look, they're popping up.

I guess just the people of Indiana. Is that it? Even his delegates. Is corn affiliated with Indiana or is that Iowa? Is it both? It's a whole thing. Everybody in the Midwest. But I think there's some resistance to it.

I don't think it's like a, I think, you know, it's a pushback against a common trope. They're separating themselves from the corn and now they're just the sirs. You know, now they're just establishing themselves in a totally different way. And I got to say, as a Pacers believer, I have nothing more to add on the matter. I'm just going to sit back, watch historic comebacks, watch incredible Tyrese Halliburton performances. I'm just going to sip on my coffee over here.

I'm just having a great time. So like you guys, when I'm out and, you know, around people who know what I do for work, they want to lay their basketball takes on me. And I got into multiple Tyrese Halliburton, let's call them, discussions over the weekend. And people are just like, oh, he's not that good. He's got a bunch of dogs on his team.

The team is so beautifully constructed. Blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, bro, since- I mean, guys, I love Aaron Neesmith, but come on. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, bro, like, since when did people just love Nemhart and Neesmith and Miles Turner again, guys that we've been bigging up for like two, three years now?

Really good players. Like, stop it. Halliburton, like, that comeback. man, some of the stuff that I think just goes underappreciated is the like as soon as that guy comes open at the three point line, Halliburton is whipping this thing to these guys, man. Like as soon as he sees the crack in the defense,

he is finding the angle. It's like, it's really cool to watch. And then, you know, of course, because people love buckets. It's like, oh, he don't get no buckets. He don't get no buckets. And then what does he do? it's a step back three to win the game after an incredible comeback

just one of the wildest to me that's actually the worst one of all of them of all the comebacks all of the crazy endings that was the worst one I mean they were up seven with like 40 seconds left again I say again for the Pacer's perspective making a comeback like that again somehow like this was just no excuse for like that inbound where they just basically threw it right to Nemhard

who again shouts to him he's bad But like, what the hell people? But Halliburton has been incredible, man. He has been amazing. And on that point, Carson Braber tweeted this out. Terry's Halliburton is 10 for 11 on shots to tie or take the lead in the last two minutes this year. And now someone also, like, found the clips of those shots and have to say a lot of them are just like weird as hell. And I do, I'm starting to wonder if, like, Halliburton is.

so weird that he always excels in particularly weird situations. Like getting your own miss off of a free throw step back into a three push shot. Obviously it looks awful. But yeah, wins the game. That was the thing with him in the draft too. It was like, again,

the push shot looks a little weird. And therefore it must not be translated. He's not an eye-popping athlete. And therefore it must not be translatable. It's all translated pretty well, you know, to play off basketball in particular. Like he just, he just gets to this stage and wins games.

So what I think about with Halliburton's game, it's like, you know, when Russ is pushing the ball for the Aaron Gordon 3, everybody's just convinced that he's going to ram himself into the defenders at the pain. Because, like, we've just been conditioned to predict what Russ is going to do. When Halliburton has the ball,

nobody knows what the fuck's about to happen. Like, and it turns out that's an advantage as an offensive player when you're not predictable. And, you know, I get it. He is a hell of a shit talker. His dad was really obnoxious to our nice, you know, former MVP, Janice Antecumpo. It can feel sometimes that the Pacers are like the most ridiculous front running team ever.

But guess what? They've been coming back now. It's different when they're in front. It's different when they're in their front like this. Yeah. I'll say this. I think we had talked about the calves as the team that, like, if we were to pick between them and the Celtics,

We would say Celtics, gut check, but the Cavs have positioned themselves well enough to pounce on the Celtics if something were to happen. If the injuries were to mount, I feel the same way about the Pacers in regard to the Cavs team where the injuries are mounting. And the Cavs, the Pacers are just solid as hell. Like, I think the talent on paper wouldn't just jump off the page, but they have done such a good job of making the most of their available resources and just, like, developing guys to the point where they're just like well-rounded

in a way that it goes unappreciated. The physicality aspect, the defensive aspect has been there, pushing a team like the Cavs, who should be the one doing that to them, considering their personnel. Yeah. I mean, they just play good, smart, two-way basketball, and you're right.

They do have a really deep rotation full of capable guys. And there's not a lot of excess there. There's not a lot of players who don't understand their roles. Like, there's just guys like Neesmith and Nemhardt who are going all out for every loose ball, for every possession, for every opportunity. Like, they know how to maximize,

the possession game of playoff basketball. And it does suck that to this point, we haven't gotten Darius Garland in the series. To this point, you know, Evan Mobley's future in it, DeAndre Hunter's future in it, we'll have to wait and see if those guys are able to come back or not.

I also think it just, it does suck that, yes, we get this, like, just an all-time playoff shot and moment from Tyrese Hallibor, a crazy, comeback in a,

in a playoff of crazy comebacks. And then lost a time was Donovan Mitchell being relentless as hell, all game. Like running himself into the ground, hitting the floor on, like driving, driving, driving, driving, driving, giving all of these losses to the rotation, knowing that he has to carry as much as he did, and damn near did.

And then they just lose and he has 48 points. And we're going to, like, the 48 points is going to get wiped off the record relative to that shot, which is going to live on in highlight reels forever. I found myself during that game too, wondering if Donovan Mitchell just had like an extra inch or two on his wingspan.

Like if you just went to Turkey and they just stretched him out a little bit, like would he just be averaging 50 in these playoffs? Because his ability to split the double and then just power his way to the basket, absorb contact and then finish is so good. If he just had an extra bit of length to go under and just like finish a lot of those plays, he would have had 60 in that game. Wait, wait, wait. So Turkey is giving men new hairlines and adding inches to their wingspans.

Well, we're doing that in this. I think we're doing that in the states where you can just get your legs lengthened, right? Like they'll break the bone and put in the rod and it'll grow back. Copy. Why couldn't you do it with your arms? Why do that when you could just lie on hinge? This is like everybody else. Well, you can't lie on national TV.

People will see the truth, you know? I'll tell you, not your guy here. Six foot. You're an ethical hooper on hinge? Exactly. I can prove it. I'll bring a tape measure if I have to. By the way, to Justin's point, you got to give it up to Kevin Pritchard for the roster construction of this team, the financial constraints that they're under.

And Herb Simon as an owner has never believed in tearing things down to the studs and being this rebuild process-oriented type of team. They've never tanked for real. and he's built up just by, you know, getting a coach, building an identity, doing a bold trade. It was bold at the time when they got Halliburton. Yep. And now just leaning into that identity and just constantly just adding these kids that fit perfectly into what they want to do. Obie Toppin was a cast off. And now every time this guy shoots a three, I'm convinced this going in, dude.

He was not a shooter in New York. Nobody knew this was coming from him, but he did, you know, he fit that sort of running gun mentality, high energy, high pace kind of guy. I just, you know, producer Zay talks about knee-Smith could not make a shot when he was in Boston.

He was a cast-off an afterthought. He's now a key ingredient to everything they do on this team. The Pacers were laughed at for only getting Aaron Neesmith back for Malcolm Brogden. Remember, those were the stakes of those. Just like, all you got back,

was this guy who can't even play for the Celtics. He's become a consummate role player. Dude. And he's indispensable. Let me say that put back dunk was crazy. And he has playoff moments like that all the time. Just pure effort plays that other guys can't make, won't make, don't make. I don't care.

Aaron E. Smith makes him. They are now team. This is why you play the games. It's like things can happen and opportunities can present themselves. And here they are again on the precipice of making another Eastern Conference finals. I would have said if they do indeed do that. I would have said like, oh, wow, what a weird blip in history. But now it's looking more like, you know, maybe they might be on to something.

Another one or two of those moves and they could be a pretty consistent present there. So we'll see. Pacers Wolves, NBA finals on NBA TV. I'm down. Nothing would thrill me more. Honestly, it would be a fantastic series. I'm down. But I'm not ready to give up on, like, give up this Thunder team.

I love watching them whether they're stomping people. I just. Yeah, no, the Thunder, they, again, all the stuff that people were attracted to, like, the amount of guys they play, the ferocity with which they, like, they play with the effort level that is just, you know, it's insane. But they also have an MVP on their team. It's not like, and Houston, man, I thought they gave a valiant effort. Yeah. Especially on defense. These guys were gamers, played hard, bludgeoning people on the boards, all of that stuff.

But they don't got an MVP. right and the thunder have all of that gritty blue collar lunch pail kind of stuff and the sexy stuff as well that's what I think separates them from the pack right now I don't have a vested interest in who wins any of these series really but I kind of wanted the rockets to beat the Warriors because I wanted Waz to have to come on the pot and apologize to regular season basketball no no no no no but I'm just going to put the thunder as the new champions or really maybe they were always the champions of regular season basketball. And we'll see if they're the champions of the playoffs too. But they've taken the shit seriously from the start. And I respect the hell out of that. We respect the regular season. It's just not predictive of playoff results.

That's all. We did a hundred fucking pods in the regular season. Anyone who respect the regular season, it is us. We respect the regular season. Exactly. All right. Let's wrap it there. We'll be back Saturday night into Sunday.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz for staying up with us. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

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