The Ringer NBA Show - The Knicks Push the Eastern Conference Finals to Six. Plus, What’s Missing in Minnesota? | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Logan, Raja, and Howard open the pod with some Miami traffic talk and a debate on which NBA cities have the worst traffic. The guys then recap Game 5 of the Eastern Conference finals, in which the Knicks defeated the Pacers and staved off elimination. What did the Knicks do differently in Game 5 to secure victory against the Pacers? Does the duo of Jalen Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns need to be respected more? What do both the Knicks and Pacers need to do to win Game 6? Was the Timberwolves' chemistry off in their Game 5 blowout loss to the Thunder? What’s next for the Wolves roster this offseason? What do they need to add? Plus, a loaded mailbag! (0:50): Show start (6:02): Knicks Force Game 6 (28:52): Fan Duel Ad Break (29:45): Anthony Edwards + Wolves (48:30): Mailbag The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers: Clifford Augustin and Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Belle Roman Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and listen to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 plus and present in select states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rgdgdash help dot com what's bobbing real ones Logan burdock here rogerville there howard beck in the motherfucking cut it is friday vibes how are you guys doing how's life roger raja you're in miami this morning you were in the city dude what's going on I thought. Yeah, this was, um, it's like anti-wastroja. Like, you were in the city and the, what are you, you were out of your, out of your element, out of your bag. What the fuck? Yeah, well, it's the things you do for kids. I would not, I would not be down there if it was like, because of something I had to do. But my kids had something to do, man. They, uh, they went down. There's a jewelry shop called GLD, like shot out to GLD. Like, they're like, uh, really hot right now. And so they invited the boys down to hang out and, and do some stuff. So I shrap. Aparon drove down to Miami, down to their warehouse, and we hung out with them for a little while. So needless to say, the traffic is a little thicker than you would normally think.

So when I got out of there, it took me a minute to get home. Howard, is Miami like an underrated traffic city in terms of like, you know, we get the L.A. is you get the New York to traffic. I feel like Miami doesn't get his just due when it comes to like. Here's the thing that with Miami, at least for like for our purposes, MBA purposes, airport to downtown where the arena is, even if there's traffic, it's not that far. Yeah. Hotel to arena might be a mile, might be brutal, but at least it's not that far. Like, you can get to stuff because nothing's that far.

Going from, like, downtown or the Biscayne Bay Area, like, over the causeways to get to Miami Beach, South Beach, whatever, like that, that can be brutal. But no, not, it wouldn't be in my top five of, like, traffic cities. Like, Houston's like a freaking nightmare. Like, I hate driving in Houston. What else? You got? I'm fascinated. You got L.A. Houston, New York. Chicago. Chicago. Chicago is. We don't get five. Atlanta? Atlanta is bad. Boston's really bad. Yeah. Like, I've driven in all these places. Like, there's a lot of these places now you don't have to anymore, right? Like, when I was a beat rider and you're just renting cars everywhere. And there were certain cities that were definitely like your taxi cities instead.

Right. But this is all before the age of Uber and Lyft. Now it's just like, I don't have to fuck with it. I could just like get in somebody else's car. But I've driven all these places. So you also get a sense of like where the really bad drivers are. Miami drivers. Yeah.

That we do make a top five listed. L.A. drivers are terrible too. L.A. drivers are up there as well. I hate driving. What? Yeah. L.A.'s. No, I'm driving L.A., so I don't know.

Listen, man. Yeah, dog, you would know. That's way far away from. That's way very well for your part of you. My wife grew up in Southern California, and we, every time we go back and we're back at least once a year, and we've been in New York for 21 years now, every time we're back, there's some moment when we're stuck on the 405 or the 110, and my wife's just like, this is why we can never come back. This is why we're never.

I just don't want to be sitting in like five-lane wall-to-wall traffic on a scorching day for an hour and a half, not even knowing what the hell's going on up ahead. Just think about LA is just like everybody's in a rush to do something. So like they're just cutting you off. They're just there. And when it's not traffic, they're trying to drive extra fast so they can make up the time. And it's just, it can be brutal. I don't like driving.

You're just raising levels of anxiety from even more you talk about. You're never going to go back to Miami again in the morning. You're never going to do it. Oh, I hate it. But like, so we're weird to Howard had a good point because most people come here and I say they're going to Miami. And they're not staying. on either South Beach, Brickle or, like, somewhere down there. And if you're not there, then it's a very different Miami than you would see when they say we're playing in Miami generally, right?

And like even Dolphin Stadium or whatever it's called now is 45 minutes up the road. The traffic is ridiculous. It's like Lone Shark Stadium, whatever hell they're calling? It's hard rock. It's hard rock. It's hard rock. Yeah, it's hard rock. It's hard rock.

Oh, man. Great. We're going to get to basketball at a certain point. Guys, just bear with us. But that one big hotel out there in Aventura is really nice with the golf. Turnberry? Turnberry. Yes.

Turnberry is really nice. It's really, really nice. That's where the Bulls used to stay. But anyways, enough about that. Let's get to the shits. We will talk about Rogers' disappointment in the Minnesota Timberwolves in the second. But first, I want to talk about the Knicks. And there win over the Pacers in game five of the Eastern Conference Finals.

I just want to say, like, so I don't want to get too much into this. But the other day when the Knicks lost in game four, it looked, you know, pretty bleak. And, you know, I went into the chat with me, Rajah, Howard, and Ben. And I just said, you know, it was a good run late guys. It was a good run. and, you know, usually Ben, like, kind of just responds in our chat. And, you know, he'll say something funny. And then the only person I responded was Howard trying to save face saying, no, not over yet, Logan, save the eulogies, right?

No, no, no, not just eulogies. You Googleese because that was from Zoolander. That's fantastic. Oh, okay, okay. All right, all right. Well played. That was attention. You didn't notice the spelling?

You don't think I can spell it. No, Logan. Come on. I don't know. I don't know. You think I was like drug texting you guys? Perhaps. Perhaps.

But so I, so Ben doesn't respond. And then I see a going T&T and I see a big, they put him on the screen and it's him putting up seven, right? And I know it probably wasn't a sub, but it felt like a sub because he didn't text us back in the chat. And I felt like, you know, I felt like, damn. Maybe I should have, you know, I probably disappointed to homie. and, you know, probably in the Knicks, you know, kind of served through, right? And they just, they said, no, what? No Tanya Gungoos?

What is it? What is it? You're Googling. You're Googles. You're Googles. You're Googles. What is it? There will be no gungulies or eulogies and Googles and all this shit, right?

And here we are going into game six. Rogers, this was an up and down game. it felt like the Pacers couldn't get to their offense. And there were a lot of times, especially in the third quarter where the Knicks, it felt like they were going to let it go, especially early in the fourth quarter, and Jalen Brunson just took them home. What did you see from the Knicks in this game? What can the Pacers do to close this out in game six?

And will there be a game seven? A lot of questions for you. You know how I do. Jesus, that is a lot. I hope you wrote those all down and answer them in order, Raja. Yeah, right? Yes, let's try to go backwards. Let's go to a game seven. Maybe. But this is where I've been on this series the whole time. I've been very noncommittal because, because of quite frankly, the way it's played out. Like, this is a hard one to really figure out. There's a lot going on there. I think in my heart of hearts that the Pacers will close them out in game six at home. They are rarely, I think they've been held under 100 points. seven times this season, twice have been in this series.

Pascal Seaccombe was bad. Well, not bad. He just didn't play. Hallie wasn't great. I mean, these are, they had 20-some turnovers. These are anomalies. Like, statistically, you can look them up. Like, this was his worst playoff game, Patrick Seacom.

It was their worst turnover game. Like, these are things, Jaylen Brunson was fantastic. Like, these are things, it's been his best game in the series, probably. There are a lot of reasons why I could say going home. I think the Pacers would win at game six. Having said that, I thought the Knicks did a really good job of doing the things that you need to do to the Pacers to keep them in the wheelhouse of a score range. And we went through that last time. 110 and below is a green light for the Knicks, right?

Like that's green zone. We're going to, we think we win this game. And they did a great job of doing that. There were a lot of things that they did. Tibbs staggered minutes. So he didn't have the defensive, you know, the two defensive pieces on the floor that are at times liabilities for him. It allowed both of them to kind of cook independently where they weren't stepping on each other. The Knicks made a concerted effort to not give Hallie a head of steam coming up the court and getting into offense like immediately with that pace, making him work just to bring it up.

Hallie didn't rebound well, which really is the igniter of their break because we're, When he's got 10 boards or so, you can't really pick him up and turn him. And there's no outlet pass needed. So before you know it as a defense, he's on top of you and they're into their offense. They navigated all those ghost screens that the Pacers like to play with. They ghost a lot of screens. The Knicks navigated that beautifully last night. The Pacers don't have a ton of dudes who can go get a bucket.

They don't. Like, Hallie is not a great bucket. Like, he's a great player, but he's not a great, like here you are on an island, me and you, and you're going to just beat me over and over again. That's not like his secret sauce. Seacum can do it a little bit. They don't have anyone else who can do it consistently. Nemhart can do it a little bit, but not enough to beat you. So when you can get them slowed down, make them play in the half court, don't give them those opportunistic like ghost slips where someone's wide open to the degree that you had through at least most of the series. You're going to have a good chance. And then you're

going to need your players. You're going to need your cat and your Jalen Brunson to do what they're supposed to do. And I thought Jalen was phenomenal, not just in the, specific to the start of the game. Now, he was great throughout. But man, you know, this is what I, when we talk about the wolves, you know, this is what you do if you're a superstar in that situation. This is what the fuck you do. You say, all right, we're at home, backs against the wall, watch me. And he did. No, he did it. What did you think of the pace,

Raja? Like, this is something that we have, has been the story of the series where the team that Dick takes the pace, Dick takes the win. And it seems like that last night when I was watching, the Knicks had it at their pace. And I think when they, you know,

when Kat got in a little bit of foul trouble, the paces were able to kind of try to get back in the game. I think got it within 10. And it was like, oh shit and you know hower can kind of speak to the vibe in the garden and the nervousness but it felt like oh shit the paces are about to find their way how do the nicks continue to dictate pace in game six on a in a road environment like that and you know when we say it it seems like more easier said than done can you explain also how hard that is to do on a close out game when you're on the

road um well it to control pace in and of itself is a difficult thing. It's even more difficult, and I've said this, you know, a lot on the pod. It's even more difficult when the team that you're trying to control the pace against wants to run. Because it's much easier to fall into running with someone than it is to like fall into, like, grinding it out. Everyone wants to run. So if you see the layup and you're the team that doesn't want to run, I mean, who's turning down layups and wide open jumpers?

Like, it's easy to entice someone into running with you. So it becomes really important for the Knicks to kind of do what they did, which is, you know, Kat having the advantage just about against anybody who tries to guard him too big and too physical for Seacum at times. And like too, too deaf, like too, too, too adequate on the perimeter at times and able to stretch miles. Like, he becomes someone that you want to work through because. that works your shot clock down, right? Like, that's longer that they have to guard you. That is slowing the game down.

Selectively running and selectively shooting threes becomes a part of it, too. Attacking the rim slows the pace down. Because you're going to shoot a higher percentage in there, and so they've got to take it out of the net, right? And or you're going to get fouled, and now the game has stopped, and it's slowed down. So all of those things. When it goes through the net, I thought they were great last night about picking

Hallie up at the baseline or underneath the free throw line, if you will. Very rarely was he able to catch it on a run at the hash and push it up the court in three seconds. He was getting up the court on makes six, seven seconds because they were picking him up and just making him turn a few times, which is a big deal as it relates to like trying to control the pace and the tempo of the game. And so I thought they did a very good job. They were in attack mode on top of the rim.

That's going to put the ball through the hole. It's going to allow me to set up my defense. I can pick him up and he can't run it up the court. And then attacking the offensive class. You know, teams can run when they can control the defensive boards, everybody turns and burns. They're out. But if they can't control their defensive board, they can't leave.

They got to stay anchored to the paint and try to box the fuck out, which stops them from running. and out. And I thought the Knicks did a, they did a really, really good job. One of the other things, oh, Howard, that was the big point of the game is just the partnership between Jalen Brunson that's growing with Kat now, right? I forgot the stat on Turner last night, but they were, it was a stat, I think it was like 30 points. I forget the stat, but they were, they were, they were, their, the duo was as good in this stat as Shaq and Kobe and Elgin Baylor. I forget the stat. It was something to do with points and a,

or and Rowans help me out in the comments if we fuck up. But all that to say how special they have been throughout this post season. What do we do we need to put more respect

on their name in terms of them as a duo and what is what is this postseason telling us about them as a duo as the games go on? It's interesting because it's funny.

Not until you actually asked the question that way, Logan, did it actually hit me? that I still don't actually think of them as a duo. Like, they obviously are. They wear the same uniform. They play for the same team.

And they're really important, like, you know, complimentary stars, right? And when they swapped out Randall for Carl Anthony Towns, the idea was to upgrade to get Brunson a little bit more help. Somebody else who has, like, some serious scoring punch. But I don't mean that as a slight that I didn't think of them as a duo. It's because I think of them so distinctly still, maybe because they've only been together one season. Maybe because it doesn't seem always as seamless

or as much as it's like those two depending on each other in the same way that, I don't know, like, you know, some great duos. Like, you know, like Curry and Clay, possibly because they came in almost together, always just seemed like you can't think of one without the other, right? Curry and Draymond is that way.

LeBron's had various partnerships where it seemed like, okay, like, you could just see how these guys. Also, Curry and Durant, too, Howard. Yeah, no, for sure, Curry and Durant, although that was a little bit different wrinkle in the whole thing. But Brunson is so well established this stage in his next tenure. As a guy who, at any given time, is going to put the team on his back, he's going to find ways to get this possible fadeaway, you know, 13, 14-footers, going to get in the teeth of your defense.

He's going to get you off balance. Like, there's so much that he does on his own, I often don't really. think of it as being like a Brunson Towns thing. In Towns, it's a different thing. Our perceptions and image of towns throughout his time in Minnesota, the thing you wondered when he came to New York was, are we going to see a different version of him? What's the next stage for him? What does it mean to be in a different environment? And it's still the same towns. He still makes like stupid fouls and then complains about them constantly, though it was obvious as hell that it was a freaking foul. Like, what are you even complaining about, dude?

And so I'm thinking of them distinctly because they both very much still are who they were before they became teammates and pick and roll partners, right? And I do think that there is like a good synergy there, but I still feel like it's mostly like Towns is going to do his thing, the way he's always done it. Brunson is going to do it the way he's always done it. And the Knicks are still more of an ensemble that revolves around Jalen Brunson. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Roger, any, am I wrong on any part of that?

No, I definitely see them as an ensemble cast. I don't see that as a one-two like that. Why? I mean, it's a great question, but I would agree with you on that. Like Valentine's Day, instead of like, I don't know, Pretty Woman. You know, Julia Roberts is just part of like an overall group of people versus and Pretty Woman is her and Richard here. Right.

Is that what you're saying? Wow. Well, well, done. No one's like, bro. No one's locked in. No one's following me here. Okay, I just walked off. I'm going back.

You lost me at Valentine's Day. Was that a movie that I missed? That was a great movie. It's my favorite Valentine's Day movie. It's an ensemble. If you know, you know, it has Jessica Beal,

it has Jamie Fox. It has, who else? Has a young Taylor Swift in there? Like, it's really good. It's 2010. You missed that entirely.

No one running with you on that fast break. No one. I ran back. I went to run. I was going to throw you to live off the glass, Raj. And I looked back and you were like, pull the hand. All right.

We were, we were mailing it in. We were waiting to go back to our home court. Raja was on the other end doing Mike and Jiroz talking about, this is bullshit. Oh, bad. Time is money, bro. Come on.

Oh, goodness. Yes, yes, yes. What are the, just the last thing to put a pin on this because I'm just, we're just, you know, loopy at this time. day. It's Friday, ladies and gentlemen. Roger, what do both teams need to do in game six to win? Like, what do do do do the Pacers need to do? And what do do do it? Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's, Nix, continue to attack aggressively the paint. Don't fall in love with the three ball, even if we're

making them. We'll allow you to control the tempo, get into the bonus. Don't turn the ball over. That's the one thing I wanted to add to the question you would ask me before. Teams like OKC and and Indiana that want to get out and go and can produce really quickly and rapidly are fueled by live ball turnovers. They're out, you know, and those leads can expand on you very, very quickly. And the only way then you can get that lead back

is to do what with them, run, right? Because you need more possessions. This is a recipe for disaster. So take care of the ball for the Knicks. I do love, Tibbs seems to want to stay with his bench. I like it. You know, I like the minutes that they're getting from people on the bench.

mention. I know that's not like, Shamble was great down to stretch, sneaky great down to stretch. Yeah. What? What year is this, Howard? Did not see that coming. Was it 2019? And that's what you're going to have to do. And then you're, I would imagine, I say this a lot. It's, it's corny, but it, but it usually rings true. You're going to probably have to weather a punch early. You're going to have to weather the punch that is the, the flurry of made shots that the, that the Pacers more than likely you're going to come out with. And then the

avalanche of the crowd on top of that. And if you can stay kind of together, like, you know, in the bunker, heads down and stay within striking distance, then you just go methodically about like, about what you have to do to win the game. From the Pacer's perspective, it would be, you know, I know I said Hallie isn't a bucket. And I mean this, I mean it. Like, it's, I don't think it's, it's, it's, it's, it's necessarily up for debate. He is not a great, like, scoring one-on-one creative. He does some cool, shit. But like he's more of a of a straw that stirs the drink, get everybody going, electric He's magic. Yeah. So, but for that team, he has to point produce specifically in the games

and especially in the games where you can't get up and down to the tune of 125 points. When that's happening by the sheer number of points scored, it suggests that everyone is cooking. We've got a lot of people involved. Everyone's making baskets. You're going to win those anyway. The ones we need you to be scoring in or the ones like last night, whether that's a game planned thing by Carlisle or if that's just a mindset by Hallie, he needs to be on to some degree what Brunson was on last night. Maybe not in the same way, but I'm going to be aggressive. I'm going to be on top of the rim. I'm going to be creating, whether it's for me or for someone else. See, Alchem's got to do what he's got to do.

And this is silly, but they've got to go. You've got to defend. You conversely have to turn them over. You've got to get those live ball passing lane steals, which turn into two. Then they come down and shoot the three. And now we came back and it was a five-point swing in the matter of 37 seconds.

That's how they play. Yeah. I'm not going to ask Howard this because he's probably going to just go off the Zoom if I asked this question. Who's winning game six, Roder? Let's get a prediction in. That's so tough. I don't know.

I really don't know and I don't mean to be. Well, you're doing the ad today, so you have to do a pickup at some point. You're doing the band-o ad today. Yeah, I, you know, my, I think the Pacers win game six at home. I think. Oh, shit. Yeah, I think it's, I think the pace gets. There were too many things that were not, there were too many things in last night's game

that haven't happened regularly in this postseason for me. It was very much an anomaly. Yeah, I don't think they're all going to happen again in the next game. Maybe they do, but I would, if you make me pick, I'd take the Pacers. Yeah, I mean, Halliburton. You want to go down, you want to go down? You want to figure this out? You want to join us?

No. Okay, okay. What were you going to say, Howard? No, it's good. I agree with Roger that just that Halliburton, like eight points on seven shots, seven points in eight shots, whatever it was. Like, he's not going to have a game like that again, especially not at home. and this team, like a lot of youngish teams, I think, you know, not only thrive more at home,

but thrive on just like energy and like when they're at their pace, when they're taking the ball out, whether it's taking the ball out of the basket or rebound, and they're running either way, and they're energized and they're ramming it down your throats and hit and pull up threes and transition. Like, that's what we see when they play at their best. That's certainly what we see when they play at home. I had said Nixon seven in this series. I was really tempted before I said Nixon 7, a week and a half or whatever ago. I was really tempted to say Pacers and 6.

Obviously, we're down to those two outcomes. So either my stated prediction or my impulse that I tamped down, one of the other, I kind of, I'm with Roger. I kind of expect the Pacers now to close it out at home. I do. And that's no disrespect to the Knicks. It's just the way this series has unfolded. But I also absolutely thought the Knicks were going to win last night.

I did not think that that team as tough as they are, we're going to go down at home without a fight. So I'm as curious as anyone to see how this plays out tomorrow. Like, it's been a really great series. Last night was not the best game in the series in terms of just like it was never in doubt, really. Although in this series, you never know. Someone's going to wipe out a 20-point lead with the blink of an eye. But it's been so tight. Like, it's going to go down to the wire tomorrow, whichever way it goes.

Sneaky indicator to watch for her. I think this is going to be true. I haven't done the legwork to figure out. If Halliburton is clearing defensive rebounds, if he's like, you know, he almost triple doubled in game. What was that for? It is all over the defensive glass.

I mean, it suggests two things with their missing shots, the Nix. But what it does is it ignites the pace. So if he's all over to defensive glass, I think the pace is up and that's not going to be good for the Nix. I'm curious too. Like, do we see, like, do stiller, Shalome make the trek back to Indianapolis considering how rudely

Pat McAfee treated them the other day. Yeah, that was... Pull up, bro. I know, but pull up, bro. If you got your New York shit and you're about to stick your chest out, go pull the fuck up to Indiana, Indiana. No, they should.

I hope they do it with that fucking funny-ass suity hat on. What's Spike going to wear, Roger? What's Spike going to wear in Game 6? What's your Spike style prediction, bro? I don't know. I get down with Spike, but I don't know. He had the zoo suit over all.

But did you guys see? So McAfee says, like, let's send these sons of bitches home, whatever, referring to like, Stiller, Shalame, Spike, whoever else had shown from New York. And so Stiller goes on, social media basically challenges Pat McAfee or whatever invites him. Not challenged. Invited him. Kindly invited him to come see the game at the garden, which Pat McAfee declined, saying, no, it was going to cost me $70,000 for a ticket. and I don't need that grief for that price or whatever. So like Pat McAfee ducked the smoke.

Oh, oh. Our guy still was, was throughout the red carpet. Oh. So I don't know. I want to see what happens from here. Although a nice gesture from John Mellencamp going on social media on behalf of the nicer part of Indiana saying that's not how we roll. That was uncool, Pat McAfee, you know, basically like, shut your trap. Yeah.

Pat McAfee thought it was like at a W-WE event, bro. Seriously. It was really, I mean, honestly, like, I know this is it. But I thought like that was part, I thought Ben and Salomey and then we're in on it. I was like, there's no ways up here acting like that. I don't think. I don't think so. Yeah.

I do not think that was it. That was a bit. Yeah. Was that a big bank take a little bang? He was like, yo, man, I ain't got the bread. Well, I'll tell you like this. I think he got the bread. Last pot I offered to be, uh, Paul George's proxy.

Like if you needed it. Yeah. Um, you know, not that you would need it, Pat McAfee, but I can be his too. So Ben, I mean, if you want to, if you want to give me a seat to come sit and watch a game in the garden with you,

but hey, listen. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I thought she was about to switch size, Roger. I didn't know what you were doing. Yeah, I didn't know where you were doing. I didn't know where you were going. I were like, are you going against the homie, bro?

Are you going to go to the fucking garden? What are you going to wear your nix shit or your patient shit, what are you going to do? Black t-shirt jeans. Tim's or Black forces? No, no, no, no, no, black. Yeah, yeah, Black Jordan went low. That's what I'm going.

Okay, all right, all right, all right. You know the fucking five. Ah, ha, dude. All right, all right. Let's, we just made Brazier very, very happy in the first segment. Let's just, you know, let's piss them off. Fandool is letting you get in on all the NBA playoff action right from first tip. Because right now, all customers can get in no sweat, same game parlay every weekend.

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Visit Fanduil.com slash ringer MBA and get a no-sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Let's talk a little about Anthony Edwards. Let's go back to the group chat. Let's go back to the Real Ones group chat. I'm looking right here. I got to start watching what I say in these texts knowing that you're now going to like blast it on the show at the time. I'm not going to.

This is not that big of a deal, bro. This is not that. This is not like anything incriminating. Okay, relax. I would never do that. Come on. Anyway, let me get my snitch on. So, Wednesday at 5.53 p.m., mind you, I didn't even watch.

I wasn't even watching the game at this point, right? Like, it was the first quarter. I'm like, I'm going to get to the game, right? The first text that I get is, these mofos look like they're about to quit already. Talking about the Minnesota Timberwolves. He says, that was five minutes in. That was five minutes in, right? So I said to that.

So yeah, that was five minutes in. And he's like, I'm like three minutes behind, but these dudes have some terrible body language, right? And then I'm like, okay, maybe it's put on the game right now. I go upstairs, put on the game. It's 26 to 9. No. What the hell was going on? Roger, what were your feelings?

And like, what the fuck is up with the Minnesota Timberwolves, dude? I don't know, man. I had, they were, I don't know how I felt. I was, I was disappointed. I was sad. I got a little angry at them. I ran the gamut of emotions. I really did because that first text that I sent,

I don't even know that it was five minutes into the game. And I wasn't, it wasn't definitive, right? Like I was looking something thinking that I saw what I saw, but I shot that text because I was like, man, this could be. Am I the little thick of this shit? Am I the right here?

So I shot it out a little feeler text. Two to three minutes later, I don't know how long I sent you that next one. Oh, I was sure that I was looking at what I thought I was looking at. And it suggested that they did not, they weren't, they did not want to play. Their hearts had been taken the game before that in Minnesota, in Minnesota. They, they had, this was, we're going to get dressed, we're going to come out here, we got to do the job because we get paid to do it.

But at the first sign of adversity, we will show the world, and especially the, the, the damn, why can I the Oklahoma City Thunder that we are not here for the shits and they were not there for them and this this started to manifest itself in like I think the first time I saw it was a pick and roll with um with Julius Randall top of the key they didn't let him get left so he had to come back to his right Alice Caruso shot like right underneath him and stole the ball went down and laid it up he didn't even run back he just looked he looked utterly disgusted and just stood there while the play was going the other way. Then Nas Reid, these were the two things that prompted the text.

Nas Reid had it on the post, and something happened, and he got stripped, and he was exasperated. He had a look of just pure befuddlement and frustration. And then I saw on the bench rolling his eyes looking like, I said, oh, this shit is a rap. Like, these dudes have no, this is over. It's over. Go ahead, Howard. No, thanks. So, but you guys are sending, or Roger sending his disappointed dad texts about the Timberwolves.

My boys are fucking suck right now. Come on. I had opted out of watching the game that night because our buddy Michael Lee was in town. Michael and I had gotten to have dinner a long time together, hang out, shoot the shit, catch up. So we had decided, you know what? We'll just, Michael put down his phone on the side, like with the game on. and Raj's text comes in. I'm like, oh man, what the hell's going on? And I looked down. It was like, yeah, 26 to 9. I'm like, all right, we made the right decision here. Raman over watching the Timberwolves get smoked. But what hit me immediately was, and, you know, trying to pay attention, trying to catch up with it later, a team that's as talented as the Timberwolves are, and they are. And they were one of the best teams in the NBA for the last couple months of the season. We saw them play really, really, you know, just very, I thought, cohesive, strong basketball through the first couple rounds of the playoffs.

Julius Randall looked better than he's ever looked in a postseason. Roger, when a team is coming apart like that, especially in the opening minutes of a close-out game, my radar always goes off because usually what this means is it's not a talent problem. Yeah, the Thunder or the more talented team, we knew that coming in. But when you fold like that, like my radar just goes off on like something else is a miss here. There's a chemistry problem. Some of these guys maybe just don't like each other. And the cracks don't show until you're really up against it.

And I just, and maybe I'm wrong. Like, the spidey senses aren't always entirely on point. But like, that was where my brain immediately went was like something's messed up. So, so, you know, you just gave me the chills there, Howard, real talk. That's why I hit him with the Oob. We're all locked in. No, yeah. No, real talk.

Because there were points in that series where, again, I wouldn't come out and necessarily be accusatory, but like, yeah, and I'm not. No, I know you're not. I know you're not. But now that's someone else that said it. So it allows me to kind of reflect on what I was thinking, where I would look at possessions with Julius Randall, like trying to get a post, right? And having his man buried, buried. And people like say, no, we're not throwing you that ball. And watch his body language as he now had to get out of the paint because they didn't, they didn't award him with the mismatch. or the deep position and what I perceived as frustration on his face. But again, to your point,

things were going good. Like I was like, oh, I just, maybe that's not what I think it is. I saw, I saw multiple times in this series where I could, where my spidey senses went off. And I just kind of buried them because I was like, nah, I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill. There's probably nothing there. But to your point, when that fractures like that, and I mean it, it fractured. It came apart at the seams. That's deep because we don't have a collective fight about us. I'm not going to get into whether we don't like, I don't know. But it certainly means that we don't have a collective will to fight for this.

And that's concerned. It's the kind of thing where I wonder where days or weeks from now there's going to be the deep dive, 3,000 word piece of someone's going to do about how the temporal wolf is fractured or something. We're going to hear all the John Cresensky piece. The John Cresensky piece in the athletic. That's what we're going to get. Roger, what's, if that, I mean, we don't know if that's the case or not, but if that is the case, or just generally a general question. There are a lot of teams that have been successful that don't necessarily like each other and like that have Howard's covered one of them.

But they still have executed when the time is right. What is the difference between a team that doesn't like each other that executes and a team that doesn't like each other that may or may not have come out in game five? Right? To close out a series and break apart. Yeah. I don't really know, Logan. I'm trying to think if I was really on any dysfunctional teams. Like even the teams I was on that weren't as good as other teams I was on, they weren't dysfunctional. We for the most part liked each other. There weren't a lot of personality, true beefs in the locker room. So I guess what I would speculate is the difference is just professionalism. you know, overall maturity and, and professionalism, quite frankly, because to your point,

it's happened, but dudes understand, this is our job, you know, and so while we might not like each other off the court and we might not be to each other's houses for meals and stuff like that, our legacies, at least for right now in this window of time, are linked. And it behooves all of us to get out there and work this shit out at least on the court. And if you can't do that, it speaks to just a lack of probably overall maturity and professionalism. I'm not accusing them of having that issue. But you're asking me, what would the difference be between the team who could and couldn't? That would more than likely, in my opinion, be the difference.

Yeah, bro, also, dog, why I fly all the way out to Oklahoma City to just lay an egg, bro? You know what I mean? You know what's crazy about that? Who was on the broadcast? Was that Stan? Was it Stan? No, no, no, no. It was his ABC.

This was Mike Green, Doris. and Richard Jefferson. So maybe it was Doris or maybe it was Breen. They were saying that they had been out to dinner the night before as I listened to the broadcast, right? So, you know, I heard that and I was immediately like, okay, we're good. We're going to lock in and have a level of fight to us. At least it will appear that we care about this. And it was one of the rare instances because usually in the playoffs, this isn't like a, this isn't a team meeting.

I talked about the team meeting where everything is just 100% dysfunctional. And you've got to have that early in the season, one third of the way through the season team meeting. A lot of times you come out of those and shit's worse or just as bad, right? But in the playoffs, we're this deep. We've galvanized in a way to get to this point. Typically when you have that meeting the night before that meal together, at minimum we come out and fight our asses off. We might not be great. We might not have the secret sauce that night.

But reality is, okay, so he's the better team. That is the reality here, right? That is the reality. But we'll all be pulling the rope in the same direction, and they just weren't doing that. Where do they go from here, Howard? There's a lot of guys that key guys that are up for, could be up for contracts, right? I think Nasri has a player option and is extension eligible. He's making that player option is like $15 million, so he's definitely not going to pick that up.

And then you have a player option with Julius Randall. and then Nekyll Alexander Walker is trying to get paid because he has an extension eligible as well. This is the new apron era. Not all those guys are going to stay on the team. What are they, what kind of offseason are they looking at? And what do they need for this roster, right? Because this was a roster that was very unproven to start the year after the trade for Julius Randall. And then they kind of galvanized at the end of the all-star, at the end of the season after the all-star break.

but it still seems like they couldn't get to, they're not at OKC's gear. How do they regroup into this offseason? I mean, the tough part of this is the thunder angle, right? Because every team in the West has to now ask themselves the question of not just how do we get better, but if we think of ourselves as contenders, how do we beat that team specifically?

And that's going to be really tough for all of them, whether you're Denver, whether you're the Lakers, whether you're whoever, Timberwolves, anybody in the Western Conference trying to get through the Thunder, like, good luck. But the Randall thing is the most fascinating place to start for me because when they traded towns for Randall, remember, this was mostly a financially driven move in the first place because of the second apron and the size of Towns's contract. So they break him up into two smaller contracts with Randall and DeVincenzo.

And the second they got Randall, I thought, well, he's a tough fit. I've seen this before because I've been New York and there's high highs and low. Lo is with Julius Randall. He's a very frustrating, polarizing player. And he can dominate the ball and he can just stifle possessions. Is he really going to fit there? And then by the end of the season, and especially over the last couple of weeks before this series, it was like, oh, look, Julius Randall's moving the ball. Julius Randall's racking up assists. Julius Randall's like fitting in really well. He's like, byeby with guys. There's a really good rhythm going here. And in the back of my mind, I was still thinking like, but what's he going to want contractually? Can they accommodate that given that that's why they're They moved off of towns. They've got to pay Nas Reid. Nas Reid's a fan favorite and a club favorite. He plays the same position. You can't pay Nas Reid and Randall and Goberr.

Something's got to give. And part of the thinking that they traded, um, cat was to give more opportunities to Nasree. So I thought this would be a rental, right? I thought Randall was there as a stop gap until they eventually just paid Nas and he became the guy. But he didn't exactly decorate himself the last couple weeks either.

So now, now it's like, a, you know, embarrassment of riches. It's like an embarrassment of, what the hell do we do now? So I, like, but I do think they got to pick one. I don't think you're bringing back both of those guys. You may lose Nikiel Alexander Walker, who's been incredibly important to them. And part of their strength has been having like all these great defensive rangey wings. And you may lose one. I don't know the answer to this. I'm just, I just know that I'm fascinated by it. And then there's like, also the, okay, Anthony Edwards, what is he? 20.

$23.44. And look, I'm not one who's going to say, like, oh, they lost, let's all pile on Anthony Edwards. But like, there's still growth that needs to happen there. I think that's clear enough. So who's the right running mate? It wasn't Towns. It's certainly not Randall. And they need another guy who can handle the ball and initiate offense and get Anthony Edwards off the ball sometimes. And Mike Connolly's 37. And, you know, they drafted Rob Dillingham, but he's not a point guard, really. And, you know, they're in a tough spot salary cap-wise. So I don't know where they go from here exactly. Who do you pick, Roger? I'm giving you, Julian, within the confines of this offense of what you've seen in this team. Julius Randall, Nas Reid, or are you taking to Kell Alexander Walker? Like, what is your early?

I get one. I get one. or I get a combination of two. You might get two. You're not getting all three. Tougher than it, tougher than it. Tougher than it seems probably at face value for a lot of people. I would, so at face value, I'd probably say Nas Reid and Nikale Alexander Walker, right?

But the problem with that is, as you saw in the playoffs, aunt at times can't crack the code of put a team on my back, I got to carry you consistently, right? Like for whatever reason. And I'm not saying he doesn't develop into that, but like he's, he has struggled with that at times. And while it's not all the time that Randall can do it. And a lot of times it's feast or famine, he can do that sometimes. He's that you're able to give him the ball on, on any given night.

When it shows up, I don't know. and he could get you 30-some and win a game for you. Did that in these playoffs? Right. And Nas does not do that. And Nikkel doesn't do that. So it's actually tougher, I think, a question than when you say it, it sounds like. If there were a world where I could get Nas, Walker,

and you gave me some other piece to Howard's point that could get an off the ball. I mean, this is an expensive player. Get him off the ball and produce. That'd be perfect. I'd have no problem with it. I'd say those two in a heartbeat. But without that other player that can go get you buckets, I don't know that it's that easy.

It's not a good answer, but I don't know. I've toyed with them. I think we're going to see, though, like a lot more movement in these types of situations, right? More like maybe signing trades and during this time. right, like if you have a guy that is on the end of his deal, like, hey, like to Rogers' point, hey, can we get a guard to get somebody off ball? Can we get this? Can we use this as a chip to? There's going to be a lot more player movement when these types of situations arise, right? I'm, like, I've toyed with the idea of these guys as a Durant team, right? Like, if you really

wanted to like say, you know what, like the time is now, we got to accelerate this thing. We don't know how many more good years of Gobert we're getting anyway and we're all in on him and we're out of these picks. Like, I don't know if they could even get to because, like, they don't have the picks to send Phoenix, but they've got pieces. But it's almost something like that, right? Where you need somebody else, and it would be a short-term thing because of Durant's age. But, like, somebody else has to come in and be able to do some things with the ball in his hands. And not in the Julius Randall.

And, you know, you're, what, three years into the Gobert thing? It's still wonky at times. He was decent in these playoffs, too, though. He wasn't in the close-out game, but he was decent. Yeah. So it's, but it's just, it's hard to pivot now. This is the most difficult thing about the way the NBA is structured now and the way this, the second April era is. Once you're all locked in, it is hard to pivot because there's not enough room in the whole system, 30 team wide, to find a place to stash the bad contract or the guy, the expensive guy who no longer fits with what you're trying to do to try to turn it into something else. And so, but I do think, like, yeah, because free agency, is basically dead in the NBA. We're just going to see a wild-ass summer of trades

and we're all going to be busy as hell. Yes. That seems like what's going to be. All right. All right. Let's get to Tuesday. Howard's here. Let's get to a motherfucking bailback.

Cliff. It's Friday. It's Friday. I'm about to say, you good? It's Friday, bro. I'm so tired right now. I am so tired. I've been up since 5 a.m.

Bro. Oh, shit. Baby? Yeah, absolutely. Y'all know the vibes. Roger already knows. He sees my face. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Enjoy it. Anyways, it's one of these days. It's just one, you know, life is just one long, continuous

day late. You know? We'll tell you like this. Naps in between. I'm sure Howard would agree with this. I'm going to say it to you. They feel like they're never going to end and you get to a point where you're fried and you convince yourself that while this is a beautiful thing, sucks and all of that shit.

Once you get towards the other end of it, man, I'm not saying I wish I could go back because I love these dudes at the age they're at now. Like this is a cool experience in and of itself. But man, I wish I appreciated that a little bit more when it was happening. Like, real talk. We'll take that advice. I'm still very tired and don't know. Amen.

But I'm going to take that advice. Happy Saturday vibes to you, Cliff, real ones. What's going on? How are we doing? We're chilling, man. It's nice and sunny out in Philly today, man. You know me might pop out later, so you never know. Oh, we're going to pop out on Philly?

I mean, I'm going to slide to the Phillies game and then I'm going to see what's up. Oh, shit. We'll link up on him and we go out of summer time. It's summertime, man. Summer and Philly, man. Listen, can I just do a little... Let's get in the bag.

He used to go to Philly in the summertime, right? Because my uncle lived out there in Overbrook. And I would go up and hang out for a week before I would go up to Carropolis, PA, to Five Star. Up in the Pittsburgh area. And that was like the plateau at the time. Like how planned. The plan.

Yeah, it used to be, hey, man. You couldn't tell me shit. You couldn't tell us to six years. Oh, man. Howard, I don't know. This is a relatively new thing, but like, like towards the end of the pod,

they sometimes begin. Cliff and Rogers just get into their Philly bag and it's just, just let them cook. Just let them cook. Cliff. Listen,

black sob. Yeah. Windows down. Ooh. Oh, bro. And then the plat, you know how the plaid got the windy rose

in the back way and then this all part. Man. It's crazy. Love. That's a good time right there. It is. Philly in the summer is nice.

You might have to hit the plot this weekend, bro. Go ahead to play this weekend. Nah, The play ain't what it used to be. There's too many young bulls over there. Okay. All right.

Yeah, yeah. If you're not doing that no more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, cool. You're not a young bull no more. Neither is Roger. You're going to keep your ass off the flat. All right.

This first one is from Robert Dean. What up, Beck? Good morning. Howard, to send this via email on The Good Place Here We are. The Good Place being Blue Sky. Follow Howard on Blue Sky. What should we expect out of the year two, three guys today like

like Chet, J. Dub, versus and Eris Prior. Is the new normal for, preparedness and production. And as they get paid, should teams be rewarded with salary cap benefits versus the current penalty structure, i.e. retaining talent counts less against the cap. This should especially apply to players on the team that drafted them in Supermax players. I like that. Yeah.

I mean, the NBA, it's funny because they've got all these competing interests right when they're trying to deal with this stuff, right? Like the whole reason we have a Larry Bird exception, the bird rule, the bird exception, how people refer to it, right? Is because when they created the salary cap back in the 80s, they were like, oh, well, what if this would mean that the Celtics can't keep Larry Bird because they've already hit the salary cap? Oh, I know.

Let's create a Larry Bird exception. And we call it the bird exception of this day. The whole point was to promote continuity, to reward teams that drafted and developed great players by letting them exceed the cap and pay more, longer contracts, bigger raises than anybody else could offer because they're trying to promote continuity. And what's happened now in the last 10, 15 years is we promoted too much continuity, really good teams that are drafting well and getting a bunch of stars or combining their own stars with then trading for stars. They're too good. And they're spending way too much money. And they're spending hundreds millions more than other teams are. I'm talking about

like the Warriors and the Clippers. We got to tamp it all down. So now we've got a system where you're forced to just keep letting talent go. And this is why we have the era of parody. This is why we're going to have a seventh champion in seven years. Because the system is so tight now and the cap is so close to a hard cap that you can't keep everybody. But to the listeners question, sorry, what was the name again? Robert Dean. Robert Dean.

So to Robert's question, like, yeah, I think everybody. And certainly if you asked any GM in the league, if you ask any fans in the league that are rooting for a good team, especially when like Oklahoma that did such an incredible job of drafting its own talent. Yeah, they should have all the tools in the world to keep their guys and have those somehow be freed of luxury tax penalties and apron penalties. But if you do that, it goes against what the NBA's current goal is, their current mission is, which is, no, we want talent distributed across the league. And if you guys drafted five guys who all become all stars, sorry, you can't pay them all the max. You're going to have to.

part with some of them and they're going to go to another team so another team can be good also. It kind of sucks in a way, but it also promotes the parody that, depending on the person who's talking, like, we enjoy, right? Like, this is what's been interesting about this era. And you don't have super teams. You don't have dynasties. I know people are already prematurely crowning Oklahoma as a potential dynasty. They haven't even won the first one yet.

We need to slow down. But anyway, yeah, there's just a lot of conflicting priorities there. I hope Thunder can keep the guys that they drafted and develop together as long as possible, but it's probably not going to be possible. All right. Let's get into the second question. This is from John Plouch, John Plouch. Team building in the second April world plus the Maverick's first draft pick.

All right, Howard, Raja, and Logan, thanks for all the content that makes my morning walks, runs, and long driving times more enjoyable. Two questions for y'all. What is the best blueprint for team success in the second April world? A, lower highs, higher lows. one or two very good players in the top 25 with five to six solid role players, a deeper team, i.e. the pacer's or B, highest highs and lowest lows, max out one to two top players in the top five with two good role players and the rest

marginal players, top level heavy talent like the Lakers. Two, what should the Mavericks do with their roster? Draft flag and play him with the current roster. Maybe trade Washington for replacement point guard to cover until Karee's back. B, draft flag, tradeaway Davis, and other win now players for top picks and this and the next draft move forward with flag lively youth thanks again for all the great content john that was longer than one of my questions roger great question nonetheless those are both really good yeah i'm gonna need you to i'm gonna answer it i just like when i when i go

to the next question i might need you to like remind me of the question once this is how long i got but i i think though like when you ask like what the best recipe is it's less of the recipe in my mind and just being effective during the stages that you are in the recipe, right? Like if you're the Pacers, eventually you're going to have to have max guys on the team unless you trade them away, right? But in a perfect world in this apron, you want a deep team, you want one really good player and try to win before it gets really, really expensive and you have to trade away guys on the roster, right? The Lakers are in a different situation because, one, they constructed their roster in a different time, and two, like, they just lucked up on a trade.

So I would just say, like, try to win in the first scenario A before you get to scenario B. But the best course of action is try to get to scenario A in this particular structure. Honestly, man, with the Dallas Mavericks, I think I am intrigued by that last option, right? like it would because of Kyrie's injury and because of the flux that it is put on the rest of the roster like it's not going to be a championship roster with how it stands right now with Cooper Flagg and Anthony Davis like Anthony Davis he has been healthy over the last few years but that's not a guarantee and I think they have a ceiling with who they are with Anthony Davis as the lead dog like you've seen him be the lead dog and his ceiling is what like an ac seed you've seen what

that was been in prime Anthony Davis when he's the lead guy. So I'm intrigued. I don't think they will do it necessarily, but like, you know, you try get off of Clay's contract because he wants to win now. You get off of Anthony Davis's contract if you can and then build a younger team around Cooper Flagg. Also, the other thing about Cooper Flag is, you know, it still remains to be seen if he, he's a really great player.

but everybody that I've talked to, it remains to be seen if he's going to be like the lead, lead, lead, lead, franchise type of guy that is going to be able to be that type of person and that personality to be able to do that. There's a lot of questions with the Mavs, but I would be intrigued the most about just going young and going through. I don't think it's going to happen, but I would like. I'm not, I don't know about the first one,

but the Mavs, look, Cooper Flagg is not a build-around player in my estimation. He is a, and that's going to sound crazy because I know he's about to be the first pick and I'm not taking anything away from who he is as a player. I take him number one too. But I've said before,

I think especially, you know, in the first and second evolution of who he is as a player, he's going to need a lot of support. But he is in every box checking, winning player. So maybe not this year because Kai Rui's hurt. But if you're able to resign Kai Rui,

and I don't know what everybody's deal looks like. But if you told me I had a team with a healthy Kyrie, a healthy AD, you know, lively, Clay Thomas, I mean Clay Thompson, I'm sorry. The other pieces they have and Cooper Flagg in year two having had a year under his belt,

I fucking like that. Even like even how much they're aging at that point? Because I don't know, Kyrie's going to be like, what, 35? No, 35, right? He's 33 right now. I like that team. Yeah, by the time he's back. By the time he's back.

By the time he's back. But you got to, I mean, we all know Clay is like not, even now is kind of like a bit of a show. So like, I don't know. I just don't know. No, and you're right though. Like there's age on that.

But like, and I'm not saying that's got a runway. But I like, I like that team two years from now with this second year, Cooper flag and everything that he represents as a, as a player. I like that. Two things are coming into conflict here. One is that in the NBA,

youth almost never wins. Even the best rookies don't win, don't influence winning at a high level as rookies. And it sometimes takes two or three years before they really do. And that was the case with rookies who came in at a lot higher level than Cooper Flagg. LeBron did not have a winning record or make the playoffs as a rookie. I don't think Jordan did either. And you can find it over and over and over again. So youth doesn't win.

That's the first piece. the other one that is in complete, like, diametric conflict with this is that Nico Harrison, from the moment he made the Luca trade, said, we're all about winning right now. We have a window here with Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving to win championships. And that thing went up and smoke when Kyrie went down with the ACL and AD was hurt immediately. And so we're, and now you, now you've fallen into the number one pick in the draft. So is this about the future in Cooper Flag?

or is it about this imaginary window that Nico Harrison created to try to win championships with Kyrie and AD, which always seemed far-fetched to me anyway? That being the case, yeah, I think I'm, like, they're not going to because they're fully invested in this, and they can't, they'll never, like, they don't want to pivot because then it's almost admitting you're wrong. Trade AD. Like, you can't trade Kyrie because he's got the ACL injury, but don't extend Kyrie at a high number, if at all. And trade Anthony Davis.

Cooper flag is the future now. Whether he is a number one or a number two ultimately, and Raja, like, I'm with you. Like, I'm no talent expert. But people I talked to for a story I did a couple weeks ago, I found a variety of opinions on what Cooper Flagg's ultimate ceiling and position on a team will be with respect to. Is he a true franchise number one who can carry you

you know, deep in the playoffs on his own. Is he going to be a complimentary star? Like, what is he? Like, we'll see. But he is their future. And the two guys that they were building around, quote unquote, building around are in their mid-30s and always hurt. Like, you got to pick a direction. We've already seen that the two timelines thing doesn't work, Golden State.

Well, what if they're bad next year? What if you're like, all right, we're waiting on Kyrie? Like, we're going to stagger your games. Like, we'll protect you this year. We're bad again. and you find yourself right back up to bat. Now you got two. Now you got two theoretical, like, franchise pieces moving forward.

I got to see if they've got their pick. I can't recall because they've been out a lot of picks too. Raj, actually, there is one counterpoint to this that I've thought about my own head. So to argue against what I just said, I wonder about this. Is there a case to be made that actually, you know what, they're not winning a championship the next couple of years. Screw it. Who cares?

But what we really want is for Cooper Flagg to come in on day one and not have to feel like a franchise savior or what always comes at the number one. Yeah, so you're not in your head vigorously. Like, there's a case to just, even if you're not going to win at a high level, keep those guys as being able to bear the brunt of leadership and pressure and all that stuff while Cooper Flagg finds his way in the NBA, yes? That's what I said when they got the pick. Like, it's perfect for him.

Like, don't fuck it up and throw all the weight on his shoulders to be something that he's not ready to be as an 18-year-old. Yeah. I see the merit to that. but I also think like clock's ticking on AD and his value. That's fair. And I think also in this new apron era, bro, you got to make decisions really fast. Like you have to, if something happens, you have to be able to pivot really, really fast.

And I think that like if you wait too long, you know, you, yeah, you don't want Cooper to go through those growing pains. But like, it's better to do that on the other hand. And you're actually like winning titles. He's lively still on a, he's on a rookie deal, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you still want to make sure that you're having flexibility. Like I think of it in the terms of like, what would Sam Presti do in this situation?

No questions asked Sam Presti's trading like all of them dudes and Cooper flag and getting the picks, right? Like, and he's the best GM in the league, right? So, like, that's what I think. But you're assuming like Sam Presby's awesome at finding gems in the draft. Like you got to, if you're going to do Sam Presti, then you've got to be St. Presti. Like, you got to go in that draft and hit a home. run on most of your, but not he don't hit a home run on every pick,

but like you understand what I'm saying. Damn there, yeah, yeah, yeah. You still bury bonds with it. And your development plan within the structure of your organization has to be almost equivalent to what Oklahoma City. And that's a lot to taking, you know, that's a lot to assume when you're,

when you're making that. But I hear where you guys are coming from 100% and he might get expensive and they might get expensive. But the inexpensive version of, they're not winning until they're expensive anyway. That's the best way I can put it. Yeah, fair. Yeah, yeah.

No team is. They're not winning until they're expensive. Like him on his working deal, he's not, like, that's not, he's not, look at him at Duke. He is fantastic. But that's, that's not like the essence of his game. You know what I mean? Like, Shea, that's the essence of his game. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what I mean? That's not the essence of. Right. He's not going to be a, he's not going to be a 35% usage guy, right? Like, he's not going to just come in and just say, like, just give me the ball and everything. It's not what he does. Now, he'll, he'll, he'll, in a complimentary role for a while, I mean, he could hit the

NBA and want to be one of the best complimentary pieces within six months because he does everything really well. Yeah. Like, you know, like. For sure. All right, we got one more question. Yeah, let's do this last one. This is from Carlos.

Hello, real ones. Lots of murmurs lately about this being an active summer for trades. We all know Janice and KD as the two big names that are pretty likely to get moved this summer. But who are some under the radar stars that people should keep an eye on as potentially being on the move as well? Thanks and love the show. Carlos.

Ready to get aggregated back. There's no way. There's no way we can't, even if we just speculate it, which is what we're doing right now. We're not even like. Also use the phrase, keep an eye on, which might have been the phrasing that I used in February

when something went off the rails due to no fault of my own. It's all good. Our live show did numbers. Anybody on Boston's roster, news flash guys, you know? All right, listen. All right, let me just, I'm just going to run through this real quick. This is all completely speculative, dude on aggregate.

Please don't aggregate. And I'm the one that's the aggregates you king. Like, I'm like, do it. But please don't, dude. You're putting it as a terrible. No, there's a lot of, like, logical, like, we covered Julius Randall, right? Like, he's like not a star at that level, but he's been all NBA a couple of times. Like, the possibility of Julius Randall being on the move seems rather high.

The Cavaliers, the bill is going to come due eventually. They have the same second apron pressures. that the wolves did before they moved towns. There's already discussion or just speculation around the league, like, oh, do they have to move off of Darius Garland? You know, like, and there are plenty of teams that would love to have him. The Celtics breakup, we've already. Jaylen Brown, maybe. I don't know.

I don't think Jaylen Brown, but like Derek White or Drew Holiday, one of those two going seems almost certain. If the Nuggets really got desperate and or creative, Michael Porter Jr. is not a star, so Carlos' question was about stars. but like, could you get to the point where you entertained offers for Jamal Murray? Interesting to think about. We covered it Anthony Davis. I think there's a case to make that they should trade Anthony Davis, Dallas.

I think there's a very strong case that the son should trade Devin Booker, but they're not going to. But they should. And especially if they're trading Durant anyway, and they're going nowhere soon. And then, yeah, there's a team in Memphis that might have a guy, but I'm not talking. I don't, bro, I think we just said every name that's under the sun. Like, I don't think there's, everybody is, is, is on the, is on the tape. That's today's NBA.

So yes. This is what it is, well, you know, you got to pivot. I don't have anything other than that. Roger G. Do you have anything? There we go. There we go. There we go.

That's been another edition of real ones. We have our real ones finals preview on Tuesday. Yeah, man. Good to see you guys. Talk soon. All the shit. Say it, right. Nah, you're real.

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