The Ringer NBA Show - The Lakers’ Ceiling, Clippers Rumors, Plus Raja’s 2007 WCF Experience | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 19, 2020

Logan and Raja get into what the Lakers’ ceiling could look like (9:59), all the suspect rumors coming out about Kawhi and the Clippers and what the Clips can do to revamp their team culture (17:43), and Raja’s experience in the 2007 Western Conference finals between the Suns and Spurs (33:39). Then the guys each crown their Real One of the Week (52:32). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, what's popping? This is Logan Murdoch from the real ones on the ringer. I'm here with Raja Bell. What's popping, bro? Yeah, what up? Just watching some highlights of an 07 playoff game. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. We talk about the 07 playoffs and how Raja still feels some type of way

about the outcome of that series with the Sun and the Spurs. Talk about that. We talk about the Clippers. We talk about the Lakers. We talk about Raja's pain. It's just a really great episode. I'm going to tell you while I'm mad. Tell me why you're mad, son.

Tell me why you mad, son. Tap in right now on the real ones coming up next. Yo, what is popping, bro? This is another episode of the Real On the Ringer NBA feed. I just put it in chat. I just put it in the chat. Oh, you just put it in the chat? Just put it in the chat.

We just put that voice that you hear on the other side. And he just put it in the chat. That's Roger. Yo. Who's popping, Roger? Can you give a little background to put it in the chat? put it in the chat. Like, that's our, all right.

Our producers have a chat open on the side of our Zoom call with pertinent information. And, like, look, here's my deal. Our producer, Sasha. Sasha shot out. If somebody says they need to have a chat with you, let's just start with that. If you hear, A, doll, we need to have a chat. Good or bad. Like, you've got to be expected to worst, right?

Yes. Nothing ever good comes from the chat. So full background on this, like Roger said, we do have a chat, right? And so Sasha was asking us, hey, do you want us to text you? Is that going to make a noise or anything? Or do I text you on your phone just to see like on time and things like that? And me and Roger both in unison said, put it in the chat. Put it in the Zoom chat.

I think that's going to be a segment. I don't know what we're going to do yet. But you're going to put it in the chat. We're going to put it in the damn chat. So we have this. in the chat. Around this time, though, this is the offseason, right? This just came to my mind, I promise.

We have a rundown and everything, but this just came up to mine. It just made me think about exit and interviews. The last chat. The last chat. That's fantastic. Those are the best and the worst at the same time. They're awful. Give me your best offseason chat story

and then give me your worst one right now. That's a good one, bro. I've never really, you know what? don't know my best ones came in Phoenix we were rolling um you know those first couple years people expected me to still be a part of what was going on so those chats were pretty good with mike d'antone and company right it revolved around like hey this is where we're going these are the pieces we think we need to add um go home and keep working on your on your shit the worst chat i ever had was the worst chat the worst chat um was kevin o'connor utah jess i was i i'm

I had come back off a wrist injury. I wasn't the same player. Not the ringers, Kevin O'Connor. Not the ringers, KOC. Uh-uh. Kevin O'Connor. He was a good GM, he was a good GM too. But I hadn't played well that year,

and I had worked really hard to get back. I felt like my body was in good shape, and it was a tumultuous season. All of that led to, like, you know, us not playing well, and I didn't play well. And he said to me something along the lines of, like, hey, you need to go back to, you know, Miami, Um, get back on, on, on whatever it is that you do, because clearly what you did last summer didn't work.

And that shit was like, ether. I was like, what? Oh, damn. Are you just going, hit me? Like, there are a lot of ways you can say that to someone saying that what you did last year clearly didn't work was real gee shit. Like he really, it hurt. It was. Did you respect it?

I know you was hurt, but did you respect it? Um, no. I didn't. I think now you respected. It seems like now you're respected the way you did it. I don't. Because I thought he was off. Oh, you don't?

Yeah. I thought it was off. Like, you know, my body was in the best shape it had been in. I just, you know, for one reason or another, wasn't a good fit with that team. So it really didn't matter what I did. You know what I mean? Like, so, you know, he probably should have just traded. I want to compare and contrast the rage that you had from this moment.

And then the Robert Sarverd dinner that, I mean, the lunch that you had with Robert Sarver. What was the rage factor versus in Utah versus that, that lunch and feet? Yeah, the lunch in Phoenix was my all-time, like, rager moment in the NBA. Because I was still a, the Kevin O'Connor thing, I was at the end of my career anyway. Like, it was, you know, it is what it is. The Robert Sarver one was some bull. But again, I want to say fully within his rights, not to give me an extension.

Like, I was taking a swing for defenses. Like, I knew there was a good possibility. He was going to say, no, more probable than him saying, yes. But the execution that actually was in real poor taste, bro. Real poor taste. That was, when you told this other story, I was dying laughing because that is so out of pocket. Yeah. He's so out of, he is just not a great people person, I don't think.

Like, you know, like, it's whatever. He's not a bad dude, just not a great people person. I mean, those people exist. I want to know before we get to these topics, like, what is the next, what is this part of the season like, the off season? And a specific time in the off season, right when you're done, right when you, right when it's over and you're at the crib for all day when in a way and you have nothing to do. What is that like? What, what did I do?

How did my season end? Like the last, the last two, like the two weeks right after the season, not like in the how did my season end though? Did I go out? Did I make the playoffs? Like, did I go first round exit? Like how. You made the playoffs.

I made the playoffs. You made the playoffs. Oh, all right. Yeah. I, you know. Phoenix Suns just lost to the spurs. Phoenix Suns just lost. Oh, so I'm salty.

Like I'm. Yeah, I'm hot. Like, if you're talking about 07, sons losing. Which we're going to get to that in a second. But, yeah. That's called previewing. That's called previewing. Yeah.

Yeah. So, like, don't step on my toes when I do that. I guess previewing. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, sorry. Oh, come on, we're having fun today. No, I, it's a weird, it's a weird thing, Logan, because, like, you notice from, like, being with, like, traveling and following a team, you're, you have a schedule. Like it's penciled in.

Like you're used to it. It's it's what you do. You're a creature of habit and your routine. And so what those first few days of the off season, especially when you played in the playoffs and you can't like forecast a vacation. If I wasn't making the playoffs, I'd be somewhere on a beach. You know, you got your shit packed. You got the movers come in.

Like you're not spending. It's almost easier though, right? Like when you, like it's almost easier on the mind when you know you're going to not make the playoffs. Oh, no doubt. Jobs over. You have a definite like end date and you could, you know, plan to be somewhere, you know, sipping on your favorite drink. When you think you're going to make a championship run and it gets like yanked out from

underneath you, like you mourn a little bit, bro. Like there's a little bit of a little bit of depression that hits. Now it's nothing like, you know, like major depression or anything like that. But you certainly are just left like wondering how, why, like, you know, what could, what could I have done better? Like you're replaying that for a few days at least trying to, before you get over the fact that you're out. How does it, how do you feel like the, like if I say I'm, I'm your homie, right? Like, and I'm around you a lot. How do, how does one approach Roger Bell when he just took a

L? Yeah, that's, that's a good, that's fair. That's a fair question. I think some guys fall into the category of, of like, this is just a game. I play it for a living. I'm not going to really be tripping off of a loss. Like, we tried our best, keep it moving. I got nothing like bad to say about that mentality. Other guys are like, don't, you know, talk to me, like, I'm holing up. I respect that, too. Neither one is me. I'm more like, look, I'm not going to be out at the club necessarily tonight, and I'm not going to be holed up in my room. I want to keep it like small with a small, you know, group of my people. And, you know, we can go about normal activity, but let's not think since my job is over for this year that we're going to go out and like

the streets on fire. Again, at the same time, I'm not holing up. in the room. So just keep it normal. Just keep that shit normal. We could talk about it. Like, you know, it's all good. How, how was it after like the Phoenix losses? Because is there a team dinner afterwards? Is there like, is there like a final congregation among people? Because I was reading, I was reading a book, reading the Jeff Perlman book Three Rings. It was really good. And he talks about even like at the end of the 0304 Lakers season that they, you know, that was, that was a crazy season as you know. But even after that, they congregated and had like a team dinner afterwards, right? Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys have that and how, how were those,

those team dinners afterwards? The last congregation. Yeah, I don't, I don't think we really had team dinners, like, after we lost. I can't remember a team having a team dinner. But we did, we did do stuff, like, as a team. Like, you know, you'd have, you know, families would get together and, you know, just kind of, maybe even a house party, if you will. Like, my son always had a birthday, like right around the end of, of the season. So, like, you know, one year our sons, the congregation I remember having was my son Dia's first birthday. So everybody came over to the house, you know, in the afternoon. And we, you know, we celebrated like his birthday and just kind of kicked it, commiserated, drank, you know, talked our shit and did what we do. But I don't

remember ever having like a sit down team dinner. Like we typically have in training camp when you're about to start a season. Like, that's like a team dinner. I don't remember having one of those at the end. So we're talking all about this because the Lakers are having the time of their life. Like they're having a time in their life. I'm assuming socially distance and being responsible. But they are in Vegas right now having the time of their life. And just, you know, take a little curtain back. We're supposed to have Danny Green on today from the Los Angeles Lakers.

We're probably going to have them up soon in the next couple of episodes. So be on the lookout for that. but he had to he was having a lit time roger he was having a lit time and just kind of canceled last minute as he should we were talking like we were talking before this this um this episode and we're talking about how you would approach a podcast post um championship how how would you do that with i feel like danny was really cool in how he did it because there's no way i'm thinking about a podcast appearance when i'm out when i'm out here partying after I wanted a title.

How would you have handled that part? Danny Green, super professional. Super professional. And his team on their job, like really good about, yes, because the way I would have approached it would have been, you know, had the time of my life. Phone would have been burning up in the morning, probably from my publicist or from the show or whoever I had committed to do an interview

with. And I would have just kicked the phone somewhere under the bed or under a pillow so I couldn't hear it vibrated, maybe even turned it off, and then apologize to you, like later in the day. That would have been... Not even profusely. Like, oh, sorry, man, you know how it goes. Would you even give us that? I'm being just keeping it above. Like, that's probably how young, you know, I don't know, 28 year old Raja, if we had won a championship, like, that's exactly how I would have approached that. You would, you would, like, I'm calling you, you're not even answering the phone. No, you does not even like, and you've already, like,

kind of committed to it. Not kind of, but you have. Yeah, firm committed. Even when you're, even when your man's like, actually at two in the morning, like, yeah, man, we're going to totally do it. Firm commit. Right. Yeah. Now, again, this is, this is if I had had a good night, like, and we were, you know, we were having, like, if I'm up in the morning, I'm probably going to do it. But once the, you know, once you start the liquor flowing and, and the night gets, you get in

at eight o'clock. Yeah, that's tough. You get at 8 a.m. Yeah, it's not going to happen. And, you know, like, I feel like NBA players in terms of how responsible they are and how they treat like, you know, situations like this. I believe the NBA player is a lot better now overall. Like, Danny is the subject of this conversation, but I think overall because of the

building of brands and, you know, all of these guys having more interest other than just basketball, I feel like they're better with those commitments now than, than some of us were when I played. And I can't speak for everybody, but I wasn't very good with some of it. For sure. And shout out to Danny for being so professional. We'll, what's happening with Danny soon? The Lakers, man.

Let's get like a final breakdown of that season. Do you, I still feel like they have the pieces to make sure that this isn't the only time to win a title. I think they're going to win. They have a legitimate shot to win back to back. You know, you got AD reports that 80's going to opt out, but resigned with LA. We knew that was going to happen. Do you see this team being among those teams going forward? I mean, yeah, I think they got to be the favorite next year going into the season.

It'd be interesting to see what the odds say. you know, I think Golden State and what they wind up looking like is going to be interesting. I don't know, man. I just want to, Golden State, I think they have to, I am a firm believer in Steph, Dre and Clay. Yep. But they got to get a front court, dude, man. They have to get a legitimate center. And I don't know how that's going to work.

I don't know if they're going to get that, but they, at the roster presently constructed, I don't know, man. I just, I don't see them in the mix like that. I see them as a five seed. And I'm probably going to get a. a lot of like flack for for saying that but i don't i don't see them as more than a than a five seat at this very moment yeah i don't think you're i don't think you're um being unfair at all i i think they've got a lot of work to do around that three like what that's that's ultimately what decides

whether or now you're just a really good like a really good trio or you're a team that can contend i just it's going to be interesting to see you know if they can kind of recapture some of even the clay Steph, Draymond magic that they had, right? And what that just does to the landscape of the West. I heard that the Mavericks may be in play for one, like, Janus. Like, you know, things like that. Any kind of major shakeup like that, but anything short of that, you know, I like the Lakers.

And what's going to be fascinating for me to watch? And I think, you know, we'll ultimately decide whether the Lakers have legs in terms of an open window with a dynasty there, not dynasty, but at least an open window with a chance. championships is which type of players who've already made their money, who've already made their name, will go there and play for whatever the Lakers have to offer because they want a chance at winning a championship. Can you dig what I'm saying? Like, which Mike Miller's, which James Joneses, which, which, which, Shane Badiers, Ray Allen's.

Like, who are those guys for the Lakers? Yeah. And that's going to be interesting. It's damn sure isn't 09 Roger Bell. He's going to get the bag in Utah. He's not, um, he will not be coming in Los Angeles. You have to have major money. Did you dig what I'm saying?

At that point, you didn't, you didn't, like, you made your money at that point? Nah, dog, no, look at my earnings. Like, I felt like I didn't have, I hadn't made enough to where I was like, I can afford not to make money now. Like, you know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. That's a cool place to be in, to be like, you know, I'm going to take a pay cut.

That pay cut richness is a different bag. Listen, I had an argument with a dude. I'll never forget it, man. I had turned Miami down, and I was at a water park in Palm Beach. and there was a cat that followed me around no bullshit all day, arguing with me about how I couldn't take less money to play for the heat. And I was like, I just remember getting into a dude like, yo, my man, where do you work? And he says, I said, okay, so let's say your warehouse, right, is like ranked 23rd out of 30 warehouses, right?

And this, like, number one ranked warehouse wants to give you a gig. You're having this full conversation with you. I had to have it with them because we're standing in these lines. and I'm like, yo, just stop. And I'm like, if the number one warehouse wants you to come work for them at one-tenth of what they're offering you at the number 23 warehouse in the country, like, are you going to leave? Not the same.

I'm like, fuck if it's not. It's the same thing, bro. So get back up. But like- Bro, also, also, when people talk about, oh, man, why did he leave from Oklahoma City for L.A.? Or like, why would he do that? Or why would he leave Memphis for New York? It's New York.

And also, and I didn't even want to shave Memphis because shout out Memphis, shout out Chris Vernon. I'm just saying, this is what it is. Right. That's like if you were to say, hey, man, I got this work transfer to go to Miami or I got this work transfer to go to New York and they're going to pay me a bag. Just on that one, you're going to say, okay, yes. Yes. I'm going to do that. Now, I did, I left Miami to go to Utah, but I live in Miami.

So for me, it was like, I'm good because I'm coming back to this. I just got to take this trip to go get this bag real quick. Hashtag I live where you vacation. Yeah, so I'll be back. I'm just saying, I just don't get why people think that. But the Lakers are having fun, so that means we have to bring up the clippers. Before we do that, let's take a quick break. And we're back.

to talk about a team near and dear to me and Raj's heart. They're very near and dear. The Los Angeles. No, not even, the L.A. Clippers, the L.A. clippers. They're having a little turmoil there. A little turmoil in L.A. Not Los Angeles because they don't want to be Los Angeles. They are the L.A. Clippers.

They promote assistant Tai Liu to head coach. Did you have any, was that, we haven't really spoke since then. Was there any, do you have any issue with that? I don't think, I don't think I have any issue with it. Was it confusing at all to you? It is kind of awkward when you have a, it's always awkward when you see the visual of somebody and assistant from one staff becoming the head coach of said staff.

It is, you know, that's always a little bit. And the preexisting relationship with him and Doc is they're really tight. Right. So I think because they're really tight, I'm not really, I would assume that they have that conversation. And Doc is like, take the job, bro. Can I, can I ask you like a conspiracy theorist? Like, do you...

Conspiracy, Raja? What? That's strange. Do you think that, do you, is there any possibility that Doc was like, hey, man, I got this Sixers gig. I'm out. Tailu the job. Here's why I'm asking.

Here's why. Because I ultimately think... You got the third eye on, bro. You got the Coupie on. It's like real. Okay. Here's, but listen, why do you, and I love Tailu, I think Tailu's going to do a great job. Wherever Tailu.

is, I think he would do a great job. Here's why it's interesting with me with the clippers dog, because if you're the clippers and you don't think Doc Rivers' style philosophy and the like is getting it done, you're just sliding a protege into the seat. It's basically, it's different. Same, same, but different. Like, you know what I'm saying?

That's like, but if you're saying if you're stated goal, and I agree with you to this state, if your stated goal is to have a new regime and a new culture system, because that's what you're saying. Yeah. Because that's what you do when you fire Dr. Rivers, because that is in grain culture. Correct. It does, it does feel odd when you sign a new guy.

That's like when the Lakers were about to, when they got rid of Phil Jackson. Remember, Brian Shaw was like the lead guy, the guy that players all wanted. But they were like, nah, we're going to get Mike Brown. Right. Because we are going to get a whole new setup and a whole new regime out here. It is a little awkward that it's Ty Lou. I mean, I like, I think it's dope for Ty Lou. Like, I'm a Tyloof fan.

I just, that one, it was a little weird, a little weird. How's Ty to work with? Great. You worked with him a little bit in Cleveland, right? Yeah, Ties good people, man. Like, Tye's a relatable dude, down to earth. Really, really, really has a good finger on the pulse of players and what they need and what they respect. But not too close to him where he can't hold him accountable.

Like, he's really, really good. So I don't mean to make it where I don't think he'll do a good job. I was just saying it was, you know, for the reasons you articulated, like, usually see a regime change at that point. But Ty's good. Yeah, I was going to say, the mark of a good coach to me is that you could stand up to the best player and the best player is still rocking with. Right.

The best player is still, you still have his ear. What about, because there's always the story about LeBron at halftime of Game 7 in the finals where he is, you know, he's pissed. He's, you know, he's saying things. And Ty Lou is just like, hey, bro, chill out. I think it was, I think it was a little bit more. vulgar language, but he stood up to LeBron, essentially. What are qualities that do you see out of Tailu that makes him good to deal with star players?

Because he got a Star-Ladden roster in L.A. Yeah, well, first, I think he was bred in an environment with the Lakers, where you had stars and personalities like that, right? And he had to learn how to hold his own as a player in an environment like that. Kobe's don't respect you if they can walk all over you. They don't. Like, you know, like the players like that. So you have to have a backbone as a player, even playing on their team to let them know that like, look, dog, like, I'm a man too.

So I think, you know, Ty has that about him. But he's not too far removed generationally from those dudes, LeBron and AD, more specifically LeBron, where he's out of touch with what's going all with them. Do you know what I mean? Like there's not like you're looking at your grandpa. Like Ty is going to rock to some of the same music they listen to and, you know, plays, you know, some of the same card game. So there's a language that they can that they can speak that is, that is shared. And I think that goes a long way with the do.

So when you do need to tell anybody, hey, bro, you know, nip that and like cut that out. Like, we got to get it together. You know, there's a respect level already there. It's not just like out of left field. Yeah, sure. And he's going to need that, especially what I've got. guy like Kauai Leonard. There's been reports out there. You know, you know the end of the season reports, Rajah, where, you know, stuff just starts to come out. It was reported by the athletic

that Kauai was late to flights and other teammates felt that he got special treatment because he could go down to San Diego and rehab on his own time. He can miss games. And that was his agreement with ownership. My thing is this, if you get Kauai Leonard, chance. are there are going to be some, and not even just Kauai Leonard. If you get a superstar, there are just things that you're going to have to do to accommodate that superstar. With LeBron James, it's having his people in, right? It's having the trainer on staff. It's having his people on the plane, right? Right. With Kauai, if he has this, if he has this agreement with ownership, that has nothing to do with the other players. Yes, he probably

he does get stressful treatment. You know, what else is while in her? He goes, earned that. What do you think about that? Yeah. And I know, like, I'm talking about, I know how you would feel as a role player, but what can you do if the guy already has these accommodations with ownership? No, even as a role player, like, I understand that you wouldn't treat me the same way Amari

would get treated or Steve Nash would get treated or even Sean Marion. Like, there's an understanding there. There's a hierarchy. There's a pecking order. And that's okay. What I would say to that is like dealing with LeBron in Cleveland, right? There were accommodations made by Cleveland that weren't necessarily made by the heat in terms of some of the things that LeBron needed from his camp's perspective and so on and so forth.

People knew that and people on the team that weren't LeBron didn't have those concessions necessarily made for them. What LeBron didn't then turn around and do is kind of rub your nose in the rest of it, like making you wait on planes for him and holding up the process and generally acting, you know, as if he were kind of better than the rest of him? Like, do you know what I'm saying? And I can't speak to whether Kauai did or not because I'm not there. But the point is, you're always going to have some special treatment for a star.

But you want that star then to turn around and understand I got the special treatment. I am the star. Let me not hold up the process, man. Don't have people sitting around waiting for me for a half hour or 45 minutes. How do LeBron tow that line, though, right? Because he is a superstar. He's LeBron James, but he's also a part of a team. How did he tow that line in a way that we reportedly have seen why?

Well, what David Griffin would do, and I think this went a long way, and I don't know whether they did it or not. But Trent Redden is in the Clippers front office, and he was with us with the Cavs. So he's got some experience. I was on 99% of the road trips with the Cavs. David Griffin didn't travel much. Trent Redden was in Europe or at the college games, and Kobe would go to Europe, Kobe Altman.

So I wound up being like on the road as the GM a lot of time. So I would get a call from Griff saying LeBron's not going to play tonight, right? Like LeBron, I don't know whose idea this was. Could have been LeBron saying he didn't want to play or he needed a night off. Could have been Griff. But the way we were going to approach it as a staff was we were giving LeBron the night off. So that didn't fall on LeBron's shoulders that he's saying he needs a night off. All the guys would know is as a staff, as his organization,

we've told LeBron he's taking the night off. So that protects LeBron from any criticism, whether it would be on him or not. Do you understand what I'm saying? You take that out of the equation as a staff by saying this is what you're going to do. The rest of the way LeBron approached it and made sure it wasn't a problem with the rest of the guys

was, again, just to be a part of the group. Like when things were going on, he was a part of him. He was leading some of them. There would be, you know, wine drinking session. when we were in L.A. You know, at the restaurant of the hotel that those guys were having and LeBron was conducting them.

They'd be having a good time. Like when we went bowling as a team, you know, on the road in L.A., LeBron's there. He's a part of it. He isn't missing all of these opportunities to be one of the guys, even though he's getting special treatment maybe that other guys wouldn't get.

Okay. So he, that, and that's the line you need to tell, right? You have to tell it. Well, what, because you said one interesting thing that I don't necessarily know if, I don't, from the outside, looking at it doesn't seem like that happened in LA, which is it didn't seem like the Clippers presented it in a way where the cat, you say the Cavs did where, okay, the team did this. The team, this is the team holding him out.

Critical. Do you think that they, the team could have done a better job? The Clippers could have done a better job in doing that and relaying that message? I think you, it's, it's, if you are trying to foster a healthy environment within your locker room and a perception nationally that is good for Kauai, then yes, you take that on your shoulders as an organization. Here's the way we're approaching this. Like, this is when Kauai is going to miss a game,

or we've decided Kauai's going to miss a game. You can't give the perception to the media or to the people in the building working with Kauai that he's just running the show. Like, that's a poor perception to give. And even though people thought LeBron was running the show, and to probably still think he's running the show wherever he goes,

like you can never concede that if you're a front office. Like, you know, you may consult with LeBron on a player that you bring in because you want to know if he thinks he can work with him, but you never want to give the perception that he's calling the shots, right? Both, you know, for your leverage in certain situations and to protect the player from, you know,

the ultimate narrative that will be at the end of it, if it doesn't succeed. I think the biggest thing with the Clippers is they didn't, There was a lot of guys that were superstars in their role the year before that thought that they were going to be the go-to guys. And nobody really went into a role. That was the biggest thing. They never went into their role. Lou Williams thought he was on Kauai Leonard's level, right?

And Montres Harrell thought, I'm the guy. I should get it. And rivaling so because they balled the year before. But again, there has to be some self-awareness in some version of that where you're like, okay, I am not as good. and I am not the guy, let me go get into my role. Yes. And they never did that. I agree with you 100% on that.

I think that, and I said it from early in the, like, you've talked about it too. They lost their identity. Like, they just lost who they were the year before, which was a gritty, tough, almost underdoggy type of team. Like, you know, without Kauai and Paul George. And when Paul George and them hit the town with the success that the Clippers had before, people thought it was like, you know, it was Hollywood. Like they were, they had achieved, you know, the ultimate goal. And they just hadn't.

And they got to get back to like, I don't even know if you can recapture it. I'm going to keep it 100. I don't know if you can recapture it. You don't think they can. I don't know that you could, you could be a good basketball team. Like, I think Ty Lou can figure out how to make them a very good team. But you're not going to recapture who they were two years ago. So now you got to figure out where you go from there.

They're not getting that identity back. No, but do you think that they call? I took it as you thought they caught lightning in the, bottle this year and they just didn't they didn't take advantage so they might be screwed. That's how I hurt. No, that's not what I'm saying. I think Ty Loo and Company has to come up with a, you know, a new type of philosophy with what type of team you're going to be, how you're going to play.

You're not the team from two years ago on the playoffs that was surprising people with how well they were playing and catching people off. Like you're not going to recapture that. You have to figure out with these dudes like how you're going to play. the style you're going to play, you know, you have to have someone there. I agree with Kauai in one regard. Like, they need a point guard with what they have. They need someone that's going to dole out the ISO opportunities

that's going to orchestrate the offense and make sure that the characters that you're talking about aren't stepping all over each other's toes. Like, can you dig what I'm saying? Like, someone has to control a game. Who's a point guard that you think that they could have? Do you think that maybe a reunion with the, I don't know, a, Let me just take a shot of the darker. A Chris Paul.

Yeah, but he's perfect. I mean, I don't know the ends and outs of the dollars and shit like that, but he's perfect. Someone that's just going to strong enough personality. I mean, they're going to have to trade some of their guys. They would have to trade to make salaries match, obviously, because he has, I think he's making like 40 mil next year. It's something crazy.

Good work if you can get it. I think that they would need to trade for him, but somebody like him, somebody may be like a, I'm just throwing shots. I'm not even, I'm throwing shots out there. I don't know the contract situation when I speak on this, but like a George Hill maybe, would you think that'll be a good one?

Or do they need a, like, a top-tier point guard alongside them? So I think it's got to be top-tier. And I've never said this, but I just kind of came to it as we're sitting here and I'm thinking about Kauai. I don't know if Kauai's a leader. But Kauai could be your best player. But I don't know if Kauai's a leader, right?

Like, think about the teams that he's been on that have won. Like, he wasn't the leader. in San Antonio, right? That was always Tim Duncan or Tony Parker or someone else. Do you know what I mean? He wasn't the leader in Toronto. The leader in Toronto is Kyle Lowry. Like, he's that personality that leads.

He was the fabric of Toronto. He still is the fabric of Toronto. Kauai was the best player. So you have to have a leader. I don't know if Paul George is a leader. Like, he's a great player too. Maybe he is. I don't know.

I'm not saying he's not. But I think you need a personality. And so I don't think George Hill is, he's a really good player. I don't know if he fits the bill for what I'm talking about with them. You've got two, you know, really dynamic players, interest in personalities. You need a real bona fide leader to bring that together. I don't know, because, you know, there's always this running joke of like, yo, we don't know who Kauai is.

We don't know if he's that guy. We don't know what he is. It's a completely different person. Like, you'd be chilling and stuff like that. I think what you see is what you can. kind of get with Kauai. And I think that, like, in terms of just him being silent, you know, and in terms of him just being that person, I don't know, like, I don't know.

I think that what you see is what you get on that. But it's going to be interesting to see what these Clippers team do. I don't know. I don't know if they get back. I just think the psychological factor. I don't know if they're strong enough to come back like this, but we'll see what happens. They'll be in the mix next year. I don't know if they're, I don't know if this year, I think, mess with them in a lot of ways.

But we'll see. Yeah, you've been off of them since we started this. But you, I mean, you were better to me. I had hopes for them. I thought they figured out. They just can never get right. They just never put a role together. I just, I don't know.

I don't know. But since we have you here, I want to introduce a new segment, Roger Bell. It's called The Real. The Real? The Real. Where we talk about a moment in a player's life. A moment in a player's career. Okay.

That was a big moment. that will be very memorable and throughout their career. We always know them for being a part of a moment like this. And no, I'm not talking about the one you guys think. I know what you guys are thinking. No, we're not going to talk about that one today. I want to talk about Spurs, Sons, in 2007. I can already see Roger right now getting pissed.

He's already mad right now. Salty. Salty. And I want to talk about game four of the Western Conference Semi-Fes. final series where Robert Orey was suspended for a flagrant foul and half of the team had to sit out

do you want to say this? Do you want to just go through this pain? Can you tell me what happened? This is going to be great. I want you to tell me what happened. Tell me what happened from your vantage point. Tell me the aftermath and then we're going to go down memory lane a little bit. Yeah. So what happened in that game four? Did we win? We won game four in San Antonio.

Didn't we were winning that game? Yes. We had the game. Steve was bringing the ball up to court. I think I was, he was coming up the left sideline because it would have been right in front of the scores table. And Robert Ory runs over and like just checks. And this is out like in the open court. Like, you know, this isn't like you're coming off of a screen and the big forgot the hedge and now he's got to come over and bump you. This was just like out in the middle of the floor. So Steve, like I catch it out of the corner of my eye. Steve goes flying into the scores table. So, like, that's our guy. Like, that's, you know, we're going to rally for the guy. So I run over there immediately at Robert Orry. I want to say he gives me, like, kind of like a forearm in the chest, like, back up. Yes. And the next thing I know, like, people are starting to, like, you know, it's like, it's not a fight.

It's one of them NBA skirmishes, right? But I didn't think much of it other than that. Like, they doled out the punishment in game. I think Steve shot some free throws. We said some FUs. each other, me and Robert Ori and other people, and the game finished. And then in the locker room, like, I remember feeling good about it, Logan, because like, we were like, we're doing this. Like, this is, we're going to win a championship. Well, let's paint a picture of that, let's paint a

picture of that team. Let's pay the picture of that team, because I do want to do that before we get to this. So this was the 2016-17-sun. This is a, you guys had lost to the spurs of previous year, I believe, because this is when you guys played out. We lost, we lost to the Mavericks the year before without Amari. Oh, okay. Excuse me. You guys lost to the Mavericks. That was the year you guys beat the Lakers, then went and beat the Clippers.

This was a team that you guys knew you guys were a title contender. You guys felt like you guys were the better team the next season, right? We didn't, yeah, man, we went to training camp. Like, and we lost Amari in training camp the year before. So we were playing in 06, like down possibly our best player and still thought. we should win a championship. Like we felt like if we had beat the Mavericks and like I tore my calf in that series and we were already undermanned and we just couldn't do it.

But if we had beat them, we felt real good about being the heat. We had ran Shaq and De Wade like off the floor twice that year. So we just felt good about it. But anyway, coming to this year, fully loaded with Amari in the mix, like we did feel like this was our opportunity. And our Eastern Conference performances, like we were blowing people out from the east. So it became about us getting out of the West, you know? So that's where we are.

And we've won the game, you know, and there's no reason for me to even, or anyone else, I'm sure, to even think about the NBA getting involved in any real capacity, right? Like, because nothing happened. It wasn't really, like, no punches were thrown or anything like that. And then as we're on the plane, you know, there starts to be like a little rumbling and like, oh, well, you know, some guys, by the next morning dog, like, we were like, holy heck. Like, they are really doing this. they are suspending Amari and Boris Diao for just stepping onto the court. Like, stepping onto the court. And I remember being like, you know, if you know Boris D.

Al, like the nicest guy in one of the nicest dude, yeah. Real talk. Like, might be the nicest dude in the world. Tony Parker's a really good friend to his. So I remember saying to people like, dog, there's a better chance that Boris is running out there to protect Tony Parker than he was to go out there and fight anybody from the damn spurs. Like, there's got to be, there's got to be intense, got to come into the equation.

There's got to be a spirit of the rule. But they refed that shit and called it right by the letter of the law, dog. Amari, Boris stepped over the line, and that's a wrap. So I keep thinking, when I think about this fight, I think about it or whatever you want to call it. I think about the before and after the malice in the palace and how the NBA just, how they looked at fights or whatever they thought of people leaving the bench and things like that. and how were those two MBAs for you? How was the pre-malice in the palace versus the post-malice in the palace? Because that's, you know, you have from beginning, before that,

and then you go into, you know, dress code and things like that. And just how the NBA looks at its players getting into arguments. How, what was the change for you there? We understood why it had to happen. But it became like super anal babysitting of, of the players. And look, you're playing a sport where while it's not football and it's not, you know, like full contact where you're tackling and stuff.

I mean, it's a very physical sport. Anybody who sat close to an NBA game, you know, and been privy to like pick up games and being in those gyms like, it's physical, bro. People are banging. Like, you know, there's a lot of, and so, you know, tempers are going to flare. It's highly competitive. Like, they're, you know, legacies on the,

line, a lot of bread on the line. I always, like, you have to have a little bit of room for, for some of that to pop up as long as it's not breaking out into fights. And the NBA, because of the fight, had to put their foot down on any kind of, like, dust up. So any dust up became like, A dog, like, you get, you know, you get suspended for that. Or like, it just, they started handing out suspensions, bro. Like, it was. How does, but how does you approach, like, the change in how, like, like, fans, right? Because they heckled you before then, right? And then to heckle you now and you know you really can't do anything. Like you really can't do anything.

Yeah, look, I was never a big, um, engager with fans on, on that level. Like, you know what I mean? I always use the fans talk to like motivate me to play better. I felt like that's what I could use it for. So it didn't really affect me in that space. It just, you know, it affected your ability to, you know, stand up for yourself because, you know, it became like,

the instigator getting the tech to like, if you even tried to protect yourself, you were given a tech or you were liable to suspension or fine. So it really, it just changed the dynamic. Like, you know, it was always, you know, double text now. And you're like, well, I didn't do shit. Like, he did it.

And I was just defending myself. It just, it changed it from that regard, you know. And I think they're better about it now. If you watch the games, like, they're not fining somebody for taking one or suspending anyone for taking one step, two steps over the line. You got like that series, Logan, was we lost game one, then held home court for game two, lost game three. And then in a like critical game, we win game four.

So we're going home to two. Like we've got the home court advantage back. Like we feel really good about that. And game five without Boris and Amari, we played seven people, I think. Like James Jones had a big game off, seven people. And we lost 88 to 85. we almost won that shit. Like we felt like we were winning that.

That was our championship, at least in our minds. How does it feel to be one of those, like, it seems like you guys are one of the teams that's in every era, right? Where, you know, in the Bulls, it probably was the Knicks and the Pistons. And one of those teams that's really, really, really good, but just were in the midst of two, in the middle of two dynasties, right? Where you have the Lakers and you have the spurs. what was it like for you to live in that little purgatory where you know you guys are really

really good title contenders but you just were whatever reason it was never y'all time you know at the time we didn't see it like that logan like we thought and regular seasons had you know kind of bore out that we were we were one of the best teams in the league like people were having problems playing with us like we presented some real issues for a a lot of teams. And no, we didn't go over the hump. And in retrospect, like, there was some of that taking place. And, and, you know, some of that, like, you know, that's on us. It's not, it's, no excuses are being made. Like, I don't feel like we got anything taken away from us necessarily. Like, we could have, we could have not lost game one of that Spurs series and not been in that position. Like,

do you know what I mean? Like, so there are a lot of things that go into losing. But we just caught some bad breaks. And every, you know, every championship run, I always say teams have to, A, have health, which we didn't in 06, right? Because Amari, we lost at the beginning of the season. We were a damn good team, like, we were running off games. And then, like, I am not, like, a D-Wade or anyone like that. Like, I don't mean that much to a team. But when you were already super thin and you rely on me to do a certain job, and I tear my calf in game one, like, we just don't have any more bullets in the chamber. So you're playing a, you're playing, you know, you didn't pass the health test. And then number two, you got to catch some good breaks. Like, and we caught bad breaks. Like,

that break in 07 was an awful, awful fucking break. Like, two guys step over the line and we lose game five, 88 to 85. The rest of those games are in a hundred. 88 to damn 85. We did everything we could. We were just short two of our best front court players. Yeah. It, that's crazy to even think about it like that. But who, who took, who took, who took the these losses the hardest in your mind? After these games, you know that they're just going through it. Yeah, who took them the hardest? I mean, for those teams, you know, because I spent a lot of time with Steve, it would probably be he and I in my mind. And that's probably not fair to the other guys on the team, but that's just who I was commiserating with at the time. And they were tough,

tough losses, you know? They were just, those were ones where, man, like, it feels like, you know, your soul just got taken out of you, you know, like, you just, you're like, damn, dog, like we did, we did everything. Like, when we got the news that Boris and Amari were suspended, we had, you have to go through that really quickly, right? You feel sorry for yourself, you're angry at the league. Then you think you can change their mind. And then really quickly, you got to rally the troops and realize that you got to play that game regardless. Like the NBA's not changing their mind on that.

So you got to go out there and play. That's draining in and of itself. To play the game, to play it as hard as we played it, to have a shot to win it, and not be able to get over the hump. Like, that's just super draining. Like, you're just exhausted and you feel like shit.

Losing it the way we lost it was just shattering, you know? When all the stuff comes out with the referees around that time, how are you feeling? Like, are you pissed? are you how do you feel throughout that whole thing because these refs that are you know tim donahy and all these these reps that are being in question they refs your game some of your biggest games

listen if you if you will look at the USA today um of the day that tim Donahy's story broke the picture is Tim Donahy in the foreground and in the background it's me with my hands up in the air like what the fuck and the scene is us in San Antonio for a playoff game.

And I remember the fucking play. So like when that stuff, when it comes out, like, you know, this didn't come out like right after those games, but like when it came out, I mean,

all kind of stuff goes through your head because you're like, you know, like, damn, you know, a lot of stuff that you just thought was coincidental or just looked odd or,

all right, I don't mean to get into this, but like I listen to the whistleblower pod, right? the other day. A friend of mine sent it to me. He said, listen to this. So I listened. And it's the pre-whatever it is to the pod is Rashid Wallace, talking about him getting these phantom texts and calling Tim Donahia cheater saying he knew what he was doing. And the league fined him, suspended him, like it cost him a million dollars. And it was, that went through

your head at the time. Like, damn, dog, like all of that shit that seemed fishy to me at the time probably was fishy and how you know what did it cost us but i didn't blame the rest for that that spurs series like i didn't think that was refs that was the league coming in and saying like this is the rule um marie and and boris kind of breached the rule and we have to call it by the letter of the law did you have an idea of like that the reps was on some weird stuff before before that all those revelations came out did you be like damn this is where at first were you like damn this is just a a tough break or was it like, damn, something, something's kind of fishy right now? No, man.

Look, look, I always felt like I got the short end of the stick from refs. Like, most players probably do. Even the stars, like, you see LeBron and then, like, he gets a lot of calls, but he still thinks he don't get enough calls, right? That's just the nature of the game. There was an incident. I don't know if I talked about it on this pod. I've said it before with Kobe in Staples Center.

I was playing for Utah. You could probably look the stats up if you wanted to. I never had a lot of offensive success against Kobe up until this point. We were in the Staples. He was in a triple threat, and I was, like, doing what I was taught to do, which was get up in his chest and try to take his space away. So he couldn't, like, you know, jab or anything like that.

He did what he was taught, which was to clear out with big elbows. Like, that's the way we were taught back then, right? Like, make him pay for being in your space. So he clipped me under my eye. We started MFing each other, like chesting up. We got double text. And the ref came over. I don't remember who it was.

but Kobe said to the ref, call it even tonight. Oh, yeah. And I was like, what? Like, I was, that fucked me up. I was like, wait a minute. And so the game just went on. There was nothing else said about it.

And when you look back at that box score, like Kobe had his normal numbers, but I had 20 in change in L.A., which was unheard of. And I got to the free throw line probably triple the amount of times that I went to the free throw line as an NBA player.

So that kind of ate away at me as time went on because I'm like, man, is that shit like real? Is it real like that? But nothing else really triggered me. I just thought it was, you know, you get some calls. You don't get some call. So you, but you did you, and you felt where you pissed when that stuff came out?

Like I feel like it came out around the time that this playoff series was happening, at least the allegations. Well, you know, I was pissed because in my circle, like I always felt like I got the short end of the stick from rest. Like I always just fell. I was like, man, this, it doesn't make sense. Like, I can't always get the short end of the stick on a call. Like, I know some of it is me giving a little extra, but some of it is just a foul. But I want to be clear. Like, I never felt like a ref took a game from us.

Like, I never felt like that. So I wasn't pissed in that regard. I was just like, you know, how much of, there was an excerpt. Like the Donahey book got squashed, right? Like the NBA, how they deaded that? I don't know. Because I figure there are people. out there that got to be interested in somebody's shit, right? But he has an excerpt from his book

that specifically talks about me and Kobe. And it says that the NBA and the refs, they, they, you know, people don't pay to see what I do. They pay to see what. Is he saying you don't sell out arenas across the country, Roger? That's what I'm saying. And that's okay. But he says that the refs are given, and I can't, look, I can't corroborate this, but it's interesting to me because that's, Like, I always felt like, you know, when you play certain dudes, you know you can't do shit to them. And it doesn't, like, you're still a phenomenal basketball player. Like, Dirk Nowitzky, Tim Duncan, like, some of those dudes, they're phenomenal basketball players. But that don't mean that they should demand more fouls than anybody else.

Can you dig what I'm saying? Yeah. That shit always was weird to me. And I'm sure that just got you enraged, just got you enraged when you saw, because, I mean, we, I've, you know, I've known you for a little bit. I know that you, that you know, that you, you are very passionate dude. So when that happens and you are the direct, you are not the beneficiary of these calls, you're pissed. I'm pissed, but I know who I am and I know, you know that the league is, has been good to me, right? Like, and so, you know, it was always my dream to playing it.

And that just is what you knew. Like, you've heard people say he hasn't earned that call yet. I mean, what do you think they're, like, what do you think they're saying? What the fuck? You start earning calls in your third year in the league. Like that in and of itself is some bullshit. Like, you know what I mean? So you're just, you're indoctrinated into it.

You understand it's coming. But when the shit hit about Tim, like, it was like, damn, dog. Like, that's, that is, that's interesting because, you know, there's some times where you felt. We had, all right, we had a game in Denver. Steve Nash and I have talked about this game. You can look it up. He had to have the over in this damn game. There's not even a question.

He had to have the over. He refed it. And it went to like triple overtime on some calls. Like if you go back and look at the calls, you're just left like, what, bro, who calls that shit? Like, why would you, there's no need to do that. No one ever does that. I played in 600 NBA games that. No one never makes that call.

But this night, the call kept getting made over and over and we're in triple overtime scoring like 150 points a piece. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's interesting shit? It was, it a vibe? Was it a vibe? It was a whole vibe, bro. It was, I didn't mind because I had like 26 of them in that. You know, I'm like, okay, I'm good.

Yeah. All right, man. Let's get to real one of the week, man. We know real one of the week is someone that exemplifies all that we hold dearly in an NBA player as a person, as a record label, and as a motherfucking crew. Roger, who is your- With us, then fuck you too, right? Ah! So who is your-

Who was your real one of the week? This is easy, bro. One, Tiofimo Lopez. Listen, my man and his dad tried to tell you that within 15 fights, he was going to be a world champion. Everybody thought that they were on some real gap. Like, it was just out of pocket for him to be saying this. And for the most part, like, there was nothing to really compare it to.

So I can dig it. They told you they were going to be Lomachenko, and people were bugging, like, whales all the money on Lomachenko. on Lomachenko. And then he came out and he handled his business and he beat him. Like I don't agree with the 119 scorecard. That's besides the point. I still think he won the fight.

What really makes him a G and a real one is when asked about the rematch and he said, nah, because the result would be the same. So ain't no rematch. Ain't no rematch. Ain't no rematch, real one. So when you hit the one hit of quitter, Riser, you say ain't no remax when they want to get the fade again? Is that what you're saying?

That's because you feel like you relate to that. Well, yeah. But on the flip side, like, hey, look, if you beat me, you go ahead to look for me every time you're coming around a corner. Hey, check this out, bro. Hey, yo, check this out. All right, man. What's your real one, bro?

My real one, it's just kind of out of sympathy and kind of like a little pity, man. Dak Prescott, bro. Took a real, you know, that injury was sick. he did, you know, he did put the fist up, but that was a very, very, very gruesome injury for him. I just wish him all the best. No doubt. We got to, you know, I'm riding for my black quarterback.

So I just hope that, you know, he does well and recovers well and is able to be healthy and provide for his family. So that's facts. Jack Prescott right here. Well, we end on a positive note, man. It's a good, it's good to be back in the lab with you, an offseason edition of the Real Ones podcast on the Ringer NBA show. Make sure you follow along on Spotify.

sure you check us out wherever podcast are listened to you can check out the mismatch you could check out group chat you can talk out bill simmons podcast you can check out everybody on the ringer podcast network and spotify and check that out on the NBA feed we also got r2c2 on the MLB feed we got the ringer NFL show tapping with that we'll see you next week we have a guess will be not i don't know you're going to have to stay and check it out. Talk to y'all soon. Peace.