The Ringer NBA Show - The Lakers Come Up Short Again Against the Clippers. Plus: Rockets Falter, Carlisle Calls the Post Extinct. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: December 27, 2019

We recap the Christmas Day games: Are the Clippers better suited for the playoffs than the Lakers? Does the same go for the Sixers vs. the Bucks? Plus: Is James Harden getting off too easy for the Rockets' failures, including losing to the Warriors on Christmas? Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the NBA show on the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. Unpredictable, like reading the story that Zion Williamson has to relearn how to walk and run. Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance. Today's episode of The Mismatch also brought to you by Nicarious.

It'sa. You know the risks of driving drunk. There could be a crash. People could get hurt or killed. You could get arrested, incur huge legal expenses, and possibly even lose your job. You know the consequences of driving drunk, and you're wrong if you think it's no big deal. Drive sober or get pulled over. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Varnan. And join to me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O. Bomer, A.K. Kevin O. Kavanaugh, Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O. Kevin O. Pinnoneman. Kevin O Christmas. Kevin. Verno, how was your Christmas? How are you doing? Everything was great. It was great. I have two young kids and so Christmas is the best. It makes it fun again, right? For sure.

Did mom make it back home? Yes, she did. She came back home on Christmas Eve. That was the best gift this week. So yeah, Christmas was nice, having my mom back and spending time with my parents and went over my aunts and uncles' houses. as well. Just for a little bit, I saw my cousins and then came back home to hang with my parents. It was a very chill Christmas and a good Christmas. I will say this. My son, who is a massive NBA fan, as you could imagine, he wanted throwback jerseys.

He didn't want current ones. He's got current ones of the players that he loves, right? But he wanted throwbacks. So this is what he got. Tell me about this selection. He got Larry Bird, Dr. J. Kings Jason Williams and Orlando Penny Hardaway. Pretty good.

That is pretty good. Pretty good. When somebody in the family asked what he wanted, he said a throwback jersey, and that's what he ended up with, those four. I thought it was pretty good team. Pretty good team, too. Those are good. How did Santa come to making those selections?

Those are those the players he likes from the past, or those just like players that Santa liked? And he's like, oh. They're fun. They're fun players. Santa brought him bird. They were the cool ones that were like, you know, look, you try to find old ones that are like legends that are also little kids grow out of these, right?

Little kids grow out of these. So you try to get ones that will kind of like stand the test of time. And the Jason Williams one is a fun one. Penny Hardaway is obviously a Memphis legend. But yeah, no, I mean, it was just kind of random, honestly. It was just cool ones, right, that were selected. Yeah. And he didn't ask for specifics.

He just wanted, you know, old player jerseys. So that's what he got. And he got, I don't know, did you collect basketball cards when you were a kid? No, not really. I had Pokemon cards. Oh, good grief. All right. Well, he got a box of cards.

cards with like, I think it had 10 packs in it. Cards are very expensive now. And of course, you want to get, for his matter, he wants to get the John Morant rookie. And no lie, the last pack in the box, the last card in the last pack in the box was the John Morant rookie. Wow. And he went absolutely bonker.

It was the best, the absolute best. Who else was in that pack? I saw you make a minute. Penny Hardaway. Oh, yeah, Penny Hardaway was in that. It was a throwback, yeah. Okay. Well, did he get that card before or after opening up the jersey?

He got those. Those were after. Those were after. That's pretty cool. It's so funny because, right? Like, kids, you want rookies. And so we got like this insert Tyler Hero rookie, which was good. I swear we got like five Rui Hachamuras.

It was hilarious. We kept getting, we kept getting him. What was the best thing you got for Christmas? Golden tea. Oh. I saw that. Yeah, I got golden tea.

It's like the mini, the mini version, right? Yeah, right. Like, they sell it, they sell it through like Walmart and Costco now. Those are perfect for our home.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. I'm going to be amazing at golden tea. So yeah. You know who's supposedly amazing? Bill Simmons, the big boss. Oh,

is that right? Yeah. There's a golden tea arcade in the office somewhere. And then my daughter, made me a picture that she I posted on Instagram and that was like the sweetest thing ever. I mean

daughters are just different. My son didn't get me crap. Oh. Well, I mean, he's just like any guy. Right? You know what I mean? Girls are just so much more thoughtful. It's unbelievable. Also, it's not always about the gift. It's about the love. That's right.

Being together and in the way you are with other people more than everything else. The gift themselves. My love for him is contingent upon me getting finding an iPad charger for them or something. You know where my charger is? Enough already. All right.

Well, let's get to what happened on Christmas outside of us. And that was there were a bunch of games that were going on. We had the Lakers Clippers lived up to all the hype. Sixers' bucks was a runaway for the Sixers. Celtics Raptors wasn't really close. Warriors Rockets, which I slandered, ended up being an entertaining upset.

And then Pelicans Nuggets. That was, I mean, it was an upset, but I didn't sense that the general consensus of people were watching that one. Let's start with six. Not wrong. It was late for a lot of people. It was very late. Let's start with Sixers bucks. Do you think that, because we are going to focus more on the small sample size, because we only have a finite amount of times that these teams meet during the regular season.

But there certainly was a moment in time where I think anybody watching this thought to themselves, boy, this isn't a great matchup for the Bucks. You saw Yonis get more animated, angry, and frustrated than I have maybe ever seen him. And, you know, sometimes when we get to the highest leverage games, it is about what team matches up with what team. Do you think this was just one game or do you think this does signify, in fact, the Sixers? are just not a great matchup for them. Well, I picked Philadelphia to make the finals before the season started. And one of the reasons why is exactly like you said, the matchup against Milwaukee.

I think on paper with Philadelphia's size and length and versatility and ability to play different styles, I'm like, yeah, they feel like a really great matchup on their end to contain Gianna Sontadacumpo and neutralize what he can do on the floor. And that's what we saw on Christmas Day. We saw Embed back off. We saw Philadelphia dairy on us to shoot. We saw them successfully contain him from attacking and getting to the basket like he always does. It was a magnificent defensive performance by Philadelphia.

And it was one of the reasons why myself and others were high on Philadelphia's defense entering the season. So with that said, I do think it is an example of. of what could be for this defense. We saw peak Philadelphia on the defensive end of the floor on Christmas against Milwaukee. And this is something they've had some issues over the course of the year with their consistency, whether it's due to effort or focus or lineups or lack of chemistry, whatever it is. They haven't been elite every single night, as you may have wished for as a Philadelphia fan out during the season.

But this is a sign that they can turn it on and when they do turn it on, they can be dominant. on that end of the floor. And it's at least an encouraging sign when you're looking ahead to the postseason or just looking ahead at other future premier matchups against elite opponents like Milwaukee. So it's an encouraging night to see what Horford and Embed, especially, and Ben Simmons and all the guys on that team could do against Janus and the Bugs. Yeah, it's really strange because if I'm not mistaken, Janus averaged like a million points against them last year.

And so it was, he was a guy that like, that, like, that, wasn't a great matchup for Philly. I mean, he was like high 30s, 40 points against them. And that was easily the worst big stage game that we've had

this year, especially because he's got all this talk. Everybody's talking about for MVP. That was just a dud of a game for Janus. And you do have to give Philly a ton of credit, but it was a little fascinating because it was kind of like I kind of felt like, hey,

Philly doesn't really have a great answer for him. And yet, there they were defending him to death. Well, there is no great answer for Janus. I mean, that's the thing. There is no great answer. But they do have at least good answers, and that's all you can hope for. You have Al Horford, who has had some success defending Janus in the past. You have Joel Embed, who, when he is playing at the level he can, is one of the most

dominant forces on the defensive end of the floor. you have Ben Simmons, who is one of the best defensive players, period, with his versatility. And granted, it was primarily imbied in that game. You have guys that you can throw at Janus. And then you have lengthy help defenders, too. You have someone like Tobias Heirs, who has been good on defense this year. You have someone like Josh Richardson, who is a smart, savvy, hard-nosed defender. They have length.

They have guys who on the ball have size and that can stay in front of Janus. They have the bodies. And in a playoff series down the line, they certainly can beat Milwaukee. And that game on Christmas was an example why. They have the bodies on defense. I'm glad you brought up Horford because he is, I mean, we saw, he is a fantastic piece to throw in there against a team that has Janus on it. I mean, they're big. They are big, that team all the way around.

And that's, and usually he is. just dominating everybody. I mean, interestingly enough, Middleton was the one that went off on that Christmas game. Sure. And certainly, and then they made a go of it in the fourth quarter. They were just way too far behind before that thing even mattered.

Well, I mean, I think in that third quarter, you know, before the fourth with a little bit of a run, there's there was two, I think, two consecutive possessions where Milwaukee ran pick and rolls with Chris Middleton. And Ben Simmons was defending Middleton. on ball and Bede defending Janus, the screener. And on one of the plays, Ben Simmons did an awesome job fighting over the Yanus screen, containing Middleton.

And then Embed just backed off Janus once he got the ball and gave him seven feet to shoot and dared him to shoot. On the next possession, Middleton drives Simmons. It's a good job fighting over, but then they essentially switch it. They decide to switch and Embed backs off and there's a good job containing the Janus drive. And it was that all night long with Embedd, Simmons, Horford, containing them building that lead into the fourth quarter. Like I said, just didn't matter at that point.

Yeah, all right. So, yeah, I wanted to go check this just because I thought I remembered this correctly. It's even more ridiculous than I thought. Yonnas played three games against Philly last year. All right, Kev. Mm-hmm. 56% from the field, 33% from three, 43.16 rebounds per game. eight assists.

He averaged 43, 16, and 8 against them last year. I mean, what in the hell? And then that just, I mean, that obviously contrast that to what we saw on Christmas Day. But again, I think, I think this is more about Philadelphia. And we saw what they can be. And they haven't always been that this year. With Philadelphia in the past, their, their problem was when Embedithes off.

the floor and what they become. Well, now the ability to play Simmons-Horford front courts, they have been good when a beat is off the floor. So that's a big thing. And at this point, it's about maximizing what they are, finding the right lineup combinations. You and I talked about this earlier in the week in regards to Ben Simmons and his flaws as a player.

But, you know, even with his flaws, he's still a great open floor player. And when utilized correctly in certain matchups, can be an effective half-court player, it's just certain playoff matchups that I think he's a major liability it will be the cause for their demise in certain matchups but they can be when Joelle Lombid is the player we saw

in that game on Christmas Day 31 points on 21 shots with 11 rebounds, 3 assists, he's a dominant force. This team can be good with right line-up combinations. It's just in a playoff series I have my concerns about Simmons but we've been down that a bunch.

Well and we are going to find out if this is just a overreaction to one big premier game or if this is, if we're getting a signal now. And I will say this. We know this. Mbeat is one of the three or four guys.

You know, Kauai was in that range last year. He's one of the three or four guys that you could possibly foresee being the best player in a series that features Janus. Like there's only a few of these guys in the world. But he is one

of them. Like that when it's all said and done, the best player in a game, the best player in a series was this guy instead of Janus. And that's just unforeseeable with virtually anybody outside of Mbeed, Kawhi, LeBron. I mean, there's only a few of them. I don't think either you or I are overacting at all to this. I think we're, I think you just took a very measured take that Joelle Embed can be the best player in a series. He can be the best player in a game, which he was on Wednesday on Christmas Day against Mont Yannis. Mbid can be that.

And for Philadelphia to continue reaching the heights that they have flashed this season that they, on paper, showed before the season, they need Joelle Ambide to be the guy that we saw on Christmas. On the offensive on the floor,

a dominant force, and on defense, just ferocious in the way he was containing Yana Santa de Kumbo. They can be this. And ultimately, it comes down to what Joel Mbush,

Bede becomes. If he's this guy, they are, like I thought before the season, because of their depth, because of their top end talent, I think they should be the favorite over Milwaukee, but they haven't shown that consistently like the Bucks have. For the Bucks, it was a, it was a horrific, you know, performance for Yannis, his worst of the year. And I'm not sure he'll be that bad again. But who knows? Would Joe Alibed defending him the way he did? It at least is an interesting game for us to store in the back of our mind for April, May, or June when it comes to assessing Milwaukee's odds in certain matchups and certain series. Yeah, we need to talk about, we'll mention some of these other. So Celtics Raptors, it was not a great gauge for anything

because the Raptors didn't have their guys, Warriors Rockets, generally. Though one comment on Boston, though, it is amazing how much better they are with Gordon Hayward. With Hayward on the floor, the types of lineups they can put out there and the ball handling and playmaking that he provides, they are a much better overall team and a scarier team with Hayward on the court. And for him dealing with that weird little foot issue, hopefully for Boston, he's able to stay healthy. And also,

Jalen Brown, dude's awesome getting better all the time. Yeah, and that looks like they made a very, very wise move in the offseason, locking him in for whatever amount of money. Warriors Rockets, it doesn't mean anything.

Pelicans Nuggets. Doesn't not mean anything? It doesn't mean anything. No. No. I mean, unless you want to say that because they got the ball out of Hardin's hands and Russell, and Russell Westbrook is more than happy to be able to say, hey, can't get the ball to you. It's my show.

Well, I mean, I guess. And that's that's sort of where I do think it means something. We saw the G League Warriors successfully get the ball out of James Harden hands, James Hardin's hands, and force a bunch of 27% three-point shooters to, Shoot. That's what we saw. I mean, that's what we saw.

I mean, you just didn't notice him much in the game. So, I mean, I guess it was more like the playoffs. Yeah, it really was. But that's the thing.

It's like, we saw the G League Warriors do this. What happens when you have a elite defense game planning? And James Hardin doesn't have the options around him. You get Russell Westbrook and James Hardin getting in a fist fight in the locker room. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for James Harden. He made the right decision every time with those passes, every single time.

But then to see the result of that, this proper decision, players chucking up shots. I wonder if there's any part of Hardin that's like, geez, I wish Russ was a better shooter. I wish he was a better shooter. Do you think there's any part of him?

They probably also wish they had a third guy. know what I mean? Did you hear Ryan Rusillo and his podcast this week say that he's heard some people around the NBA think Westbrook would be available in a trade? Did you hear that? That is totally believable to be. I mean, because it's Daryl Morey and he would trade anybody. Maybe they could go get Chris Paul.

For what it's worth, I would be shocked if that were to happen. because there is nothing that he would do that would shock me. Well, no, no, no, but because of the fact that they traded all those picks with Chris Paul to get Westbrook, partially because Hardin wanted Westbrook. And you got to keep your star player happy. That's part of the reason you made the deal. I can't imagine James Hardin would be happy if Russell Westbrook were theoretically dealt, which is so improbable. But if it were to happen, I just can't imagine Hardin would be happy about that. But maybe it doesn't matter.

you still do what's best for the team. Because Westbrook is, he's had these elite performances. You would talk, you and I talked about this on Tuesday. He can raise their ceiling when he's on top of his game. It's just a matter of how often he's actually at that level. And I'm not a Westbrook. I mean,

there was another time where Hardin wasn't exactly, uh, you know, making all the big plays. And that was that was that was that was a clipper game. Westbrook just took over the frigging game. I mean, he was just ridiculous, right?

I mean, that was, That was less than two weeks ago. But that's what Westbrook does to you. No, it's the good and the bad. Yeah, but it's a lot of bad. It's a lot of bad. I'm with you.

I'm glad you are. I feel like at one point you and I were on opposite ends when it came to the Westbrook Harden debate. No, look, I am against the Westbrook slander. That's what I am against and demeaning all of his achievements. I do think that, look, when push comes to show, if I want a guy on a foxhole, you better believe I'm choosing Westport. He's a competitor.

Yes, same way Chris Paul was. They need that because James will concede. He's not going to fight till the very end. He'll just walk away from it. And that's when it gets the highest leverage situations, we have seen him in fourth quarters, in the last five minutes of big games, and at least give me the guy that's going to go down swinging in the corner

before he gets knocked out. And that's what Westbrook brings to the table. That's real alpha stuff. And it's just, he's wild. He's wild. Come on. Come on. That can work to your disadvantage, though.

I understand. We saw this for years, for years, Chris, with Westbrook and Durant. When Westbrook is being that alpha down the stretch, taking these big shots and they clank off the side of the rim. We've seen that story and how it plays out. We've seen that. Hardin needs to be the guy, period. He needs a guy who can compliment him and enhance him.

And hopefully for Houston, it can be Russell Westbrook. Hopefully for them it works. I'm not convinced with Russ, with his inefficiencies and with his flaws. I wish he was a better spot-up shooter. And he needs to be at least hot for them to win more of those big games in a playoff series. He needs to be a hot shooter off the ball while Hardin's the guy creating. That's what needs to happen. Well, we saw, look, they, Chris Paul went out and we saw what happened when it was, he's the man.

And see, that's what you don't, that's what you and no one not wants to recognize. When he plays like crap and when he shows up small in a big spot, you don't use the same logic that you do against Westbrook. No, because that, I literally just said that is the advantage of having Westbrook, that I am with you, that he is a guy who, who when he's on top of his game, like he wasn't that Clippers game last week, last Thursday, TNT, he was awesome. 13 of 31, 40 points, got to the line,

was whipping the ball around the floor, he had some turnovers, but it's okay. You live with it because of what he was doing as a score and what they needed from him in that performance. Granted he wasn't efficient, they needed that from him in that game. And that's okay.

You live with it sometimes, but there's other times where it's like he takes away from you from doing too much. you need to find the right balance with Russell Westbrook, and I hope they can find that right balance where he gives it when you need it, but he's not always taking it. Like, do you, I feel like,

I, look at, I feel like we agree. We just look at it a little differently. Look, I don't know if you agree with this either, but we'll find out, I do, if you could go back and redo the trade, I would redo the trade. How would you redo the trade?

I would not, I'm saying I would take it away. I think there's a couple of teams that would do, that. I think you're seeing Utah would do it. They would probably take back the Mike Conley trade if they could. And I think that you, I think in this one, 100% they would take it back. And I think, and I think, I think they would read, I think they would redo this. I think if you could go back in time, you wouldn't make the Chris Paul. I don't, I don't think he would because of James Hardin. I think you would still do the trade because of James Hardin. Just because you had to get rid of him? He, he would, James Hardin would not have been happy. would not have been happy if Chris Paul were still on the team right now. Those guys didn't like each other.

And it was a deal that had to be made to keep James Harden happy. And you need to keep James Hardham happy. Simple as that. He's your franchise player. And you can't have him be disgruntled. You can't have him at some point possibly getting to a point where he's like, yeah, I want out. I want out.

You can't have that. And what that would do to your team and do to your locker room. With Westbrook, he was, he's a guy who is a at least equal, or comparable and talent level to Chris Paul and is a guy who on paper raises your ceiling. They had to make that deal for those two reasons. And maybe it's something that doesn't work out, but I think it was something they had to do

and hopefully for Houston. You just need to build around these guys. That's why. I know. That's like Covington. I reported their interest in him earlier this month. Whether it's Covington or another wing or forward, a guy who can shoot threes and defend.

Getting another one of those guys needs to be the priority. I mean, they are just to me, Kev, they were right there. They were right there. I know. Just a few. I mean, they're up. Look, they're up in the Golden State Series.

They're up 61 to 51 at halftime of that game, game six on their home floor. And they came out and scored 16 points in the third and nine points in the fourth quarter and got beat by 30 on home court and that's the close-out game and that's the one they didn't have Chris for. And you just look back and you go, geez, man, if they would add Paul, they win the NBA finals that year. I mean, they're hoisting a trophy if they beat Golden State.

And I don't know. In the 0 for 27, stretch from three. So what do you care with? Do you care about winning if you're James Hardin? I mean, like, I don't know. You're right there just because you can't get along with the guy. care. You do care about winning and probably in your eyes, you see in those games, Chris Paul wasn't there. Chris Paul was out. He wasn't there. He got hurt. And I'll tell you this. And if Russell

Westbrook has that game, you hang it around his neck forever. But it was James Hardin, who on his home floor, his team scored 16 and then nine when it's totally his team, 25 points in a friggin half at home, up 10 in an elimination game. And it's, It's like, yeah, well, I don't want Russell Westbrook taking over. I want James. That's what happens when James Hardin takes over in a big spot. Are we talking about 2019 or 2018 right now? We're talking about two years ago, the West finals.

2018, 2018. The West finals. So, okay. The one that Paul got hurt. Yeah, okay. I get that box score open right now. But still, like, that was the game they shot seven for 44 from three. That's the game where Eric Gordon's two for 12 from three.

That's the game where Trevor a reason is 0 for 9 from three. If you're going to pin that game from two years ago, all on James Hardin, it's a mistake. James Hardin was the creator of so many of those open shot opportunities, was a guy that had a lean on to create every single possession. And with Hardin, looking at his numbers in the postseason, he has not been nearly as bad overall as people are making it out to be. He still puts up tremendous numbers as a guy who is oftentimes the lone source of offensive of creation.

I mean, he puts up remarkable numbers considering the defense he faces, considering the attention he receives. He just needs the right pieces and the right guys around him to enhance him and compliments him. And I hope it's Russell Westbrook. I hope he's that guy who can be that creator when they need it. They tried Dwight Howard. That didn't work.

They tried Chris Paul. That doesn't work. They've tried Russell Westbrook. That's not going to work evidently. That's not all on Hardin, though. That's not. that's not all on any one person. Who is the common denominator here?

You can also point the finger at Mike Dantone, who somehow hasn't been mentioned at all here. You can point the finger at him. You can say maybe Daryl hasn't put the right pieces around these guys. Blame goes to everybody. It's not just one player or one person. That's what we do, though. You're the guy. It's not.

You're the guy, though. You're the guy. You're the guy. I mean, nobody sat there and said, oh, well, it's Lamar Odom and it's Derek Fisher. It's Kobe. You know what I mean? Like the accomplishment, same with LeBron,

the accomplishments, when you're the guy in the NBA, it's a star-driven league, and it's what you did as a superstar. Hardin averaged 32 points last year in the postseason, 29 points in the postseason before that, with efficiency not on the same level of the regular season because he's facing all-time great defense.

He's facing an all-time great team in the Golden State Warriors. What do you expect? Okay, well, look, the search will go on forever for the guy that can play next to him if they're going to get rid of Russell Westbrook now. We've seen this before. Not every guy ever wins a title, but we used to say, oh, what could Alex Rodriguez do in the postseason for the Yankees? What can Peyton Manning do in the playoffs for the Colts? Guys, these great, Hardin is a great player. And I look at him the way I look at Manning or A-Rod, these guys who for a long time, people said they couldn't win at all. Hardin may

never win a title. He just may not. And may not be in the way. the cards for him. But he's capable and he is that player of that caliber who came. I think the best example, Zach Lowe, I remember on the book of basketball thing, he said that he is our generation's Carl Malone, which is absolutely perfect. Because he

went against a juggernaut team in the Golden State Warriors. Is that why? Like Carl Malone went up against my own. He has also got these insane accomplishments that people don't care about as much as you would think they would. Carl Malone's like, I mean, come on. He's a leading scorer.

right didn't he ended up becoming the leading or the second leading score in NBA history or something by the time it was all said and done yeah and it's like how many how many I'll tell you this my kid didn't ask for a Carl Malone jersey you know what I mean I'll give I'll give hard in this well a lot more kids got hardened jerseys than ever got Carl Malone jerseys outside of Utah I'll give him that uh all right let's get so what one thing this is going to lead us on two Lakers Quippers. LeBron James, soon enough, will pass Carl and Malone

in all time points. LeBron at 33,33, 13313. Malone is second 36,9208. That can happen next year. He had a chance at three more if it weren't for Pat Beverly. Ooh. Now look, let me get to this.

I was excited to do this show because I wanted to ask you about this. So you have the last play of the game, and people get mad, you are robbed of the dramatic moment, right? And you get this super slow-mo that says, oh, it's actually out on LeBron. I was very fascinated by this as almost just a social experiment. So as I look at social media at the end of that game, you get, I think, an overwhelming

amount of people furious about that call and saying, this is when replay goes wrong and they should just, you know, that play's been, you know, you've seen that play a hundred million at times. It's out on the defender, yada, yada. And my thing is this, it's almost like if they don't call that ball out on LeBron, people are saying, then what the hell do you have replay for? And then if they call it out on LeBron, they say, F replay. Replace, like, this is not what, this is not the spirit of replay. Why are we doing this? That ball is out on Beverly. What do you make of that? Do you think that they should have reviewed that super slow-mo it and then come to the conclusion? Yes, that ball's out on LeBron. It's one of the negative

side effects of replay for sure. But ultimately, the correct decision was made. Right? And it isn't that the intention of replay is to make the proper decisions on what it's worth. That's a fascinating thing. It's like if we agree that the ball is actually out

on LeBron, the fascinating thing about this is, and I feel like it's probably the same people, if you get to the playoffs and it's the most high leverage, this is just a regular season fun Christmas game, not as big a deal, but it's like, what the hell do we have replay for

if we can't get it right? But yet in this game, it's like, that's not what replay's for. That's ridiculous. You know what I mean? Like, that's not the spirit of replay.

And it's a catch 22. It was like the same people that would fight to get it right, and that's, you know, this is a billion dollar product, we should get it right, are the same people to say, F that,

what I mean? Like let the, let the Lakers have a last shot. Yeah, I mean, it's the type of thing. I just think it's kind of silly, the argument that like, oh, it shouldn't be out of bounds because streetball rules, you know, because Beverly was the one was the one who pushed it. It's like, no, the rule is is the last person who touches it. It's out on them, period. And getting it right is important.

It doesn't matter at what point of the game it is. Like, that's what I was, you know, getting at earlier. They have the coach's challenge earlier for, types of situations like this, which don't happen every play. It's silly for someone to argue, oh, well, you have to replay every play. No, no, no, no, that doesn't happen every play. This is rare that it happens, and it can be reviewed to get it correct. And getting it correct is the main priority, and they did get it correct.

And it's unfortunate we didn't get the play at the end of the game, but we will get plenty of those over the course of the year. And, by the way, it was a good game overall. Yeah, it was a good game overall. I saw your video of Kauai Leonard, which was really well done. Congratulations on that. Sean, you and Dylan Burkey

from the ringer produced that. They killed it. It was great. And he was, you know, much like we were talking about MBEed earlier, Kauai was the best player

on the court in that game. And their role players are just better. The Clippers built better around Kawhi and George. And they already had those pieces in place, I understand, than the Lakers did.

The Lakers need, you know, obviously Kuzma was very good in this game. Very good. And it made you think, hey, maybe he can be the third wheel, even though he will be going through big playoff games for the first time in his life. But I just, you know, they got some dogs on that Clippers team.

I like when your star role players are surrounded by these Pat Beves, Montrez, these kind of guys that are just absolute bulldogs. And even then, Lou Williams did not have a good game. Right. I guess there's only one for six. He did have seven assists. but he was not scoring the ball as you would typically expect from him. And he has had some rough games against longer,

lengthier teams like the Lakers are in the defensive end of the floor. But with that said, Kauai was the best player on the floor on Christmas. He was absolutely dominant on the offensive end of the floor, getting where he wanted, passing the ball. He was unbelievable. All right, we'll get right back to it.

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This NBA season, Mountain Dew is all about the threes, the shot that's changing the game, changing the game, especially for the Brooklyn Nets, who only had eight two-point field goals in their game against the Knicks last night. Brought you by Mountain Dew, the official beverage of the NBA, do the do. All right, let's burn through these.

We're going to go through all the quick hits. First, Luca returned last night, showed absolutely no rust. He was awesome last night. Though he's just 9 of 23 from the field, one of six from three, he does end up with the numbers, 24 points, 10 rebounds, and 8 assists, which has been very typical for him. But that is not the story that got the most talk out of the game. It was Rick Carlisle, the coach of the Mavericks, addressing the issue of post-ups and the Porzingis posting up. and he says, quote, the post-up just isn't a good play anymore. It's a low-value situation.

Our numbers are very substantial. Though when Porzinga spaces the floor beyond the three-point line, where we are a historically good offensive team, he continued. Let's get off that stuff that KP needs to go in the post. He doesn't. Look, he's used to doing it because they ran the triangle for two or three years when he was there. Who is running the triangle now? Has anyone you seen running the triangle, the triple post?

If you do, raise your hand, because I want to see here you are, because I haven't seen it because that offense is extinct. No, with Chris Staps, it's the type of thing where when he's outside, you're better off attacking into that mid-range space rather than having a guy post up there. And Chris Staps this season, I tweeted about this last month. I said Dallas was wasting their time, wasting possessions, having Chris Staps post up because of what they are when he is spacing the floor and how much better he is as either not just a three-point shooter, but a guy attacking off the dribble.

And last night we saw him throw the lob to Dwight Powell for a layup. Rick Carlisle mentioned that. We've seen him attack, get layups or dunks attacking. You're better off having him attack into that post space rather than you're just, you know, settle down and park there. Chris Daps in the past was a poor post player before we got the NBA. He was a poor post player when he was young in the NBA. His last year with New York, he was solid.

And this year with the Dallas Mavericks, he has not been what you would hope for. He hasn't gotten better. If anything, he looks like he's gotten worse and he hasn't gotten feel, partially because of just his natural high center of gravity. And you hope with his 7 foot three frame, he is able to become somebody that can defeat mismatches to minimize the probability that the opponent will switch. You might need that in a playoff series. But for the most part, though, it's true you don't want the post up. You just don't. And that's why we've seen across the league.

We've been through this a bunch. It's been written about a bunch on the ringer. Zach Cramm did something recently about it. Teams just aren't posting up anymore because it's not an efficient play. And it is fascinating to see the difference in philosophy where you have the Dallas Mavericks who don't post up a lot going in San Antonio that still does play more vintage, classic style going through the posts with the Marcus Aldridge, going to the mid-range post area with the Martyr.

Rosen. It was just interesting that these comments came after a game against San Antonio, the one game that the one team that really does still have their foot in the past. Well, let me tell you, this ain't the time to talk to me about what San Antonio does. Because since we last spoke, I saw them drop 145 in regulation on the Grizzlies head. It was the most unbelievable offensive showing I've ever seen in my life. I mean, they could not miss. They couldn't miss. They shot almost 90% in the first quarter.

It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Aldrich had 22 in the quarter. I was just sitting there in like, I've never seen anything like it. Sometimes you just can't miss. I saw, I just, you know, I'm recency bias. I just saw them play a game where I was like, holy, I mean, I've seen all of the, I've seen the rockets. I've seen the warriors.

I've seen every great team for the last 18 years in person. I've never seen anything like what they pulled off. I have a question for you. This is a pop quiz. All right. Okay. Philadelphia is first in the NBA in total post-ups. They've posted 624 possessions according to Synergy Sports.

The Spurs are third with 393. Dallas. Where do you think they rank? 21st, middle of the pack, 155? Who do you, how many do you think the last place team has? The Brooklyn Nets. I gave you those numbers that gave you perspective on where Dallas at 155. You know what?

Brooklyn is 30th. I was about to make a Nets, Joe. Okay. Well, how many? Oh, God. How many total? Ten. 15.

You were close. They have 15 total postups in 30. games. Well, let me tell you something. 30 games. Last night, last night did not present the best argument against it because they made eight two-point field goals, which was the lowest since the three-point line was introduced. Wow. The lowest in the shot clock era. Wow. Eight two-point field goals. Like you would just think with layups and putbacks, you're going to get more than eight two-point field. goals.

Like they are, like they are the antithesis of like everybody preaches, you know, it's just a bad shot. It's just a bad shot. Like, bro, they, they had eight in a game against the friggin' Knicks.

The Knicks are back. Oh, God. It's back to what? Eight two point field goals. And a good, uh, Kyrie Durant meme that went around of them dispond.

on the bench. Nick. Knicks have won four of their last eight games. How about that? Oh, my God. Okay. Yeah, the net.

So that's not exactly a great advertisement for low number of post-ups when they have. By the way, what's with Kyrie? Where is he? What do you mean? What's with him?

Why is he not playing? Well, he's still mad. He's still mad about getting booed. Is he, is he just like taking a break? Is this a gap year? management, Kevin. I mean, you have Kenny Ackinson yesterday disputing the report that he's dealing with some new back injury and he's still dealing with the old thing. I don't know what's going on.

What's going on with Kyrie? Why is he not playing? He's hurt. I don't know about that. I think he's resting. Load management. I think he's just chilling and taking a break. Hey, one last one last thing because one last thing on the Mavs thing, because I didn't want to mention this.

Seth Portnow put this out last night. This was his tweet, and this was very good. The Mavs have the most efficient offense in the league by a full point in a half. The discussion should start with what they're doing a lot more right than wrong. Bingo. Including especially how they are utilizing their best players. And it is our, it is our, you know, and I talk about this a lot, where we talk about great players and what's wrong with them.

The same goes with teams, right? we find this discussion and somehow this discussion is about what Dallas or a player on Dallas isn't doing rather than acknowledging the fact that they are the best offense in the league by a point and a half. And so something is going incredibly right and that should be more of the discussion. Well, I mean, I don't want to be like Mr. Media critic here. But I think this is one of the, it's been a topic of conversation recently on Twitter especially about how the game is talked about and how it's perceived.

I think we sort of live in a bubble and NBA Twitter these hardcore fans that are going to watch games no matter what. But it is interesting to think about if you're a more casual Mavericks fan or a younger Mavericks fan who's learning about the game or just a casual fan of any team that's tuning in, I think you want to understand why is this team so great with these young players and Luca? why is this team so great with Chris Adams-Poor-Zingis?

Why is it effective? Why are they using this big guy this way to understand why this team is historically great on the offensive end of the floor rather than, oh, he should just be posting down. He said on 4-3, he should be in the post without really understanding why. And I think breaking down simple concepts and making it understandable that, oh, when you have the floor space with four guys around Luca, it provides this all-time. great playmaking presence, the ability to drive and kick the ball out for other guys to make simple decisions to shoot or attack off the dribble and then repeat. I would like to,

I would like to hear more of why it's working route, like Seth alluded to with his tweet, rather than he should just post up because he's tall because he shouldn't. He stinks in the post and they're better off with having him from three where he is great. Two more quick things. Zion learning to walk, run differently. Andrew Lopez from ESPN had the report. The report also said he is, in order to be cleared, he needs to get two to three practices, full practices, and the five-on-fives and everything. And the team hopes to have that happen right after the new year.

What do you make of this? Do you think we are going to get to see Zion? I hope so. I hope so. Look, the Barkley Shack thing obviously got a lot of talk because of Port Jenkins. Barkley showing Zion how to run and walk properly. really was the funniest damn thing ever. I mean, it was just preposterous.

And that is a thing, though. I will tell you, I've dealt with, I've dealt with players in the past that have come off of surgeries and that teams do want to change the way to make it easier on them. Especially, I, the last time I remember it was Vince Carter, which is truly unbelievable, considering he was nearing 40 years old. but I watched the training staff tried to reteach him how he should be walking and running

to make it easier on his joints. And that's not an easy process to say the least. It's hard to change any habit. Oh, I know. I know. No matter what it is. What if somebody retort you to walk and run? Good grief.

It's not easy. I mean, that's something that you literally have done since you were a toddler. Yes. And it's hard to change any habit. No matter what you're doing. I get so freaked out every time I see a story about him.

I'm just praying. He comes back healthy and we see the Zion that we saw at Duke playing in the NBA because how about how about the Zion we saw in preseason? Yes. I'd like to see that. Okay. Last thing, Kev, as of Christmas Day, the All-Star voting open. And I'm going to close on this and I'm going to think that you are going to agree.

Okay. So if you are if you are tasked with choosing just the five-star, for the East and the West. Hardin, Luca, Anthony Davis, LeBron, Kauai in the West, Siakum and Bede, Kemba Butler Janus in the East.

That sounds pretty good. I have not put in a single moment of thought of this yet, but it sounds good at the top of my head. I think all of that is 100% no-brainers. Certainly the West is. The East, the only ones would be either Kemba or Butler, and, I mean, Tatum and Brown are kind of there as guys you could put in. But I think these are actually pretty easy in terms of, you know,

in the case that fans did vote for the most deserving players. In the West, Hardin Luca Davis, LeBron Kauai, in the East, Kemba, Butler, Siakam Janus, Mb.B. How about Beal? in there somewhere. Maybe not as a starter, but, you know, on the bubble. They've won, what, 10 games?

Have they won 10? No, it's not his fault. He plays for that team. I guess it's sort of a busy sign the extension. Now, what do you mean? So, are you pro Trey Young then? Being an all-star? I mean, he scores.

Yeah, I mean, he should be an all-star. I don't think a starter necessarily over some of the guys you mentioned, but he should be in that conversation, sure. okay. Oh, yeah, you're a Devin Booker guy. That stands for reason. That's true. I am. I love Kevin Booker. Great player. It's not his fault. No. I know. Memphis Curseley is a better record than a handful of teams in the West, including the Suns. Pretty amazing. Memphis, as we speak, two games back from the eight seed Portland Trailblazers.

That's better than Phoenix, Minnesota, New Orleans, and the Golden State Warriors. Unbelievable. It's after their burial of Oklahoma City last. unbelievable. Kevin, have a wonderful weekend. I will talk to you right before the new year. Yeah, see you later, man. Have a good weekend, Chris. All right, buddy.

Thanks, Kevin. Thank you to Bobby Wagner for producing. Hey, if you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.