The Ringer NBA Show - The Lakers' Continued Offensive Woes, Clippers vs. Mavericks, and Giving Jimmy Butler the Respect He Deserves | Group Chat

Episode Date: August 19, 2020

Justin, Jonathan, and Rob are joined by L.A. Times reporter Dan Woike to discuss the Los Angeles Lakers' woes against the Portland Trail Blazers in Game 1 (01:45), and the loaded Los Angeles Clippers' win over Luka Doncic and the Dallas Mavericks (22:00). Later, they bounce around the NBA bubble with their show-and-tell picks from the start of the playoffs (36:00). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Jonathan Tjarks, Rob Mahoney Guest: Dan Woike Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Basketball is very good. Hello and welcome to group chat, the ringer's weekly NBA group discussion where we talk about everything from crowd noise to injured corneas. I'm Justin Varian, joining me today from Dallas, Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys?

Formerly from Dallas, but now a coastal elitist, Rob Mahoney. Truly. And you know what? We're podcasting in an empty arena today. I'm really going to need you guys to pick me up. We'll do what we can here, especially because we have a ringer here, no pun intended.

but from L.A., the voice of L.A. basketball, I would say, it's Dan Wojke. What's up, buddy? To Dallas. Have you? It is my preferred connecting airport. Perfect. Yeah, no, I was always an American flyer, and thus I have been to the Dallas airport many times. I don't know if I've actually been to Dallas? No, we're just to fly over for Justin. Glad me come up. There we're rude. There we go.

All right. get to a bunch of stuff here. We are recording at 10 a.m. Pacific on Wednesday. So by the time this goes up, some of today's games might be ongoing. But we're going to jump around the league a little bit, talk about some stuff that's happened for all of the first games of these first round series. But first, I want to start with Los Angeles. I would say the whole season has pretty much been built around these two teams. No disrespect to the bucks here. But the NBA scheduled the Lakers and the Clippers for opening night, and they did again and reopening night. And here,

on the opening days of the playoffs, both aren't doing too great, but I guess we should start with the Lakers because they're the team that lost last night. 93 total points, 16% from three. It's not what you want. Dan,

how worried are you about the Lakers after this first game? Well, Portland has maybe the most terrifying defense in the NBA. So and by that, I mean, I think it terrified as Terry Stubstaffes that they actually have to play defense. It was funny. I think it was either after the last seating game or the Memphis playing game, somebody had asked Terry Staps a question about his defense.

He had answered it like sarcastically and then he pulled down his mat to be like kind of like, yeah, I'm laughing. Like I know we've got an awful defense. And I think to me that like the Lakers offensive struggles were probably. going into this, but it felt like if there was ever like a slump buster, it'd be this Portland defense. I mean, you know, they've got no wings at all. They've got, you know, Gary Trent Jr. trying to guard LeBron James. You've got Carmelo trying to guard LeBron James.

And it, this, this offense is just completely incompetent right now in the bubble. It wasn't a great offense to begin with. It was very good. it's problematic. I think that they should be a little worried. I'm not so sure that I'm worried necessarily yet about Portland, but there are warts here, and I think we're seeing them under the clear Florida sunshine.

Well, the thing about it is, it's pretty easy to guard team that can't shoot, right? You just stick five guys in the paint and say shoot away. I mean, to me, I've been thinking all season, they've got to bench, Javail and Dwight. They've got to play smaller. And I think you saw it in this game. There's just no space in the floor to operate.

I'm not sure what they're really bringing to the table with LeBron and AD having the ball in their hands anyways. So to me, you've got to go smaller. You got to play Kuzma. And you've got to try to spread the floor against World. Yeah, I mean, there were kind of the minutes where it was LeBron and A.D. and Kuzma and Caruso and then another shooter. And then there was everything else.

And everything else was kind of a disaster. And that's where, you know, if you're playing. you're setting the battleground for the series in a way where Yusuf Nurkich and San Widesad can be on the floor together and be, I think they were plus 16 and 11 minutes. That's a nightmare. Like this Portland team is not deep. They can only play so many guys,

especially without Zach Collins. They're starting Wenya and Gabriel in his rookie season. You need to press them in that way tactically. You need to force them to put their deep, you know, go deeper into their bench to or stretch Dame and Gary Trent and C.J. And all these guys even further in terms of their minutes to survive. And the way the Lakers are playing

right now just doesn't do that. To jump in real quick, Justin, I was going to say, like, so where does the shooting come from, though, right? Like, I suppose you could play, you know, obviously Kuzma has been, maybe they're more, it feels like they're most consistent. One of the weird things is that Anthony Davis is a guy who gives him some spacing, but it feels like any possession that ends with him shooting a jump shot generally feels like a win, I think, for teams.

You know, is this Dionne Waiter's time already? is J.R. Smith, you know, Rondo coming back doesn't help them space the floor. I mean, he's a competent-ish, like, sort of catch-and-be wide-open shooter, but he's not somebody who you're going to change your defensive sort of strategies around. I guess, you know, series they say are adjustments. I don't know where the adjustment is that says start making shots. Like, that seems like, I mean, no good coach could just say, okay, that's what, like, we're going to start using a mini ball.

Like, what's the plan? Well, here's the thing, though. If Jabal and Dwight are out there, the bar is this low. They're not making shots no matter what, right? So basically, any investment you make is going to be better than that one. Yeah, I'm of two minds here. On the one hand, I agree with what Dan was saying. I just, this isn't a good three-point shooting team to begin with.

On the flip side, though, I mean, they shot 16% from three. I don't know many NBA teams are going to get that bad. and I think it was Ben Alamar had a stat that this was their third worst shooting three-point shooting night of the season. So it was particularly bad there. On the other hand, two of those bottom three, three-point shooting nights

have come in the bubble. So something is definitely off here. The other thing I just want to bring up too is I think the defensive adjustments that you would need to make in order to guard dame almost like play into some of these other issues. So if you want to put more shooting on the floor, obviously you want to turn to a guy like Kuzma, friends. It's not a great three-point shooter, but definitely among the guys you would look at in order to solve that issue.

The problem is if you're having to guard dame so far out, like 31 feet, 34 feet, you're getting Anthony Davis. Let's say they're playing Davis at the five. You're getting Davis in the pick and roll pretty much at half court. And so now you're removing one of your best defenders and pretty much asking all those other guys, the three other guys, pretty much in this ocean of space around the basket to garden space. And one of those guys would be Kyle Kuzma. So I guess just to some things up, like I don't know if you want to add more shooting, for instance,

you're taking something away on defense and actually playing into the Blazers' hands on offense. Rob, what do you think? Well, I mean, if only we had some evidence to suggest that Anthony Davis was really good, hedging Damien Lillard pick and rolls in the playoffs. And that that might be a viable option if you play them at center. If you force Portland's best screeners. to be defended by Anthony Davis, you change the nature of that matchup, especially if you have someone like Caruso on ball on Dame, who, you know, everyone's going to get torched in that matchup right now,

but you put the longest guy you can afford to on Dame, you have him chase as, you know, as effectively as they can. And you have someone like Davis lying in wait where, yes, you're going to be a little vulnerable on the backside. Yes, you're going to give up some open stuff when Dame is able to move the ball. But that's kind of the world you're living in when he's pulling up from, you know, a step inside half court. I got a question for you, actually. I just want to point out that the Lakers' two best three-point shooters by percentage this season are Dwight Howard and Javille McGee.

I do just like that is important information at 60 and 50%. That's the answer right there. Put some respect on those names. What I was wondering, so we're talking about adjustments, right? That's coaching. What's your sense of LeBron and Frank Vogel's relationship? Like, how much does he trust Frank Vogel for an moves like this?

I mean, I think, like, we're about to find out, right? Like, this is a team that they've dealt with a lot of adversity this year, but the adversity has almost largely been off the floor. You know, they were marooned a little bit in China. Obviously, what happened with Kobe Bryant, like they've been put through the emotional sort of ringer, but in terms of on the floor, they haven't really, they haven't really struggled ever.

You know, I think they had a two or three game losing streak early in the season. But otherwise, they've been pretty steadfast. And I think, you know, the approach all along has been very small. It's been, we're going to handle the day in front of us. We're going to handle the day in front of us. And Frank Vogel has largely deferred, I believe, to LeBron. And sort of LeBron's sort of desire to be out on the court, whether it's playing through a bruised elbow or that type of stuff, like during the course of the season.

I remember having conversations. I had a conversation with LeBron once where I kind of said, like, the biggest knock when I talked to other teams about you guys are, or why are you sprinting now? Like, and this would be, this was like in January or something like that. And he's like, we're not. Like, he was very much like, if you think I'm, if you think this is a sprint, like, you're wrong.

And I think Frank Vogel trusted that. And I don't know. Looking at this now, I don't want to turn the conversation too much to this. Like, did we undersell? Have we undersold maybe how important Avery Bradley was? And like somebody who could read? really matter in the series? I thought, I mean, look, Avery Bradley, 36% shooter from three,

one of only a handful of guys who's a volume three-point shooter on this team who shoots above 35% of Sam, KCP, Danny Green. Like, that's it. You know, if Quinn Cook's out there, you can count Quinn Cook, too, but he's pretty hard to play in the series, I think. You know, to me, I thought that I thought where Avery Bradley would really matter in this bubble, and Rob joked about kind of the no crowd noise. It's like, you're going to have to create your own energy. in these games, right? And unless your fans are tapping the cheer button really quickly, like you're going to have to create this yourself.

And Avery Bradley is a guy on inbound passes that would have stepped up and like try to deny Dame and try to guard him full court, right? Like that's something that would have happened. He would have put pressure. And I do feel like that type of stuff injects a little life into your team. And the Lakers tried to do that a little bit yesterday with KCP, with Caruso, and stuff.

but it never really felt like it took. And so I wonder if like missing sort of that ball pressure and that and honestly that kind of consistency shooting the basketball, maybe we've undersold that and how much he matters. Yeah, my thing about the Lakers is, yes, they did a great job filling around LeBron and AD with pretty much guys off the scrap heap.

But I look around this team and I'm still surprised to this day how they didn't find just like one G-League guy or, I mean, I guess Caruso would be that, but one guy in addition to Caruso, that they just found out of nowhere. They have, in theory, limitless resources considering the type of money that they pull in in a normal year, that they didn't find the guy from, like, Ukraine or Yugoslavia who could just hit a three-pointer. And, like, these are the little things that up. We've been talking about this all season where, like, the Clippers have just infinite depth, and we'll get to the Clippers in a little bit.

but I'm just, this is where I almost blame the front office just a little bit for not really having any more options when someone like Rondo who, I don't know, take him or leave him. I think he's done more damage than good probably this season. I just don't, they should have more options in this if you're this caliber of team. Well, the other thing too is at some point, if this kind of persists, we're going to have to have a long, hard conversation about Danny Green, who's someone whose game I really appreciate, but offensively has just been kind of a zero for them in a way. way that's really damaging. And that's a guy they really relied on and they invested some of their financial resources in. It's great to pull up the Caruso's and to have, you know, what options they have. I think, you know, we're kind of talking about two different thresholds. Is there enough shooting to win this series? Which I think the answer is yes. They're going to make more shots than they did in game one. And then there's, do they have enough shooting to win the title, which is a much more fraught conversation that I don't think even the Lakers are ready to have. I mean, kind of going back

into what Dan was saying, it goes into the whole like GM-Lebron thing. Like, look, with this roster, a lot of guys who have bronze heard of who are like 10 year veterans, got Dwight Howard, Rondo, Avery Bradley. It's like the 2012 All-Stars. And I think with Bradley, by the time of going smaller, it's one more guy

who can you play if you bench your big men, right? If you bench Dwight and Javille, you've got to find four perimeter players, and they don't have a lot of them. And like, looking forward, right, they're going to play Houston and around two, probably if they get that far. Houston's going to make them go small. They're going to make them shoot threes.

they better find some guys you can do that. It's interesting because one of the things that I, it's a theory I've kicked around and I don't know if it's right or not. I just generally feel like as a team, you're just so much better when you're yourself and you just do what you do and you try not to counterpunch too much. Like I remember the,

I think it was the first game after the Covington trade. Houston played in L.A. and they beat the Lakers, right? And it was sort of, it was fascinating because you watch P.J. Tucker and Robert Cunning Javille McGee and Anthony Davis and you're like, how is this possibly going to work? And because, you know, those guys are,

the idea sort of with those two Laker Bigs is that they're mobile, right? And you can move those guys around and they can do different things, particularly AD. What I saw that game, and I remember talking to PJ Tucker after the game, not to name drop, my good close. friend, B.J. Tucker. You know, we talked about how, like, part of what they did in that game, and really, I think what they do in general is psychological.

And that's they bait teams end of doing stuff that they don't normally do. And I watched the Thunder do it, too, where it was like, you know, Austin Rivers is guarding Danilo Gallenari in the post, and they're just like, oh, well, we should run post-ups for Danilo Gallen-R. You know, like, that should be a part of our offense now. And it's just not really what it is that the Thunder or do best. And that was what the Lakers did. And the Clippers did it to the Lakers, too, in the opener,

and they did in the Christmas game, where when they went small, the Lakers decided to, like, really, like, pump out their chest and be big. And they put AD on the block, and they just pounded the ball, and they pounded the ball into the block over and over again. And that's just not how they,

that's not their office. Like, it just is. Yeah, I think if there is a big concern, perhaps not even in this series, but going forward, is that they really need Anthony Davis to play like, Anthony Davis, and he came out so flat. The entire team was flat, but Anthony Davis in particular, it was just like he was 8 for 24,

0 for 5 from 3. I know he hasn't had much playoff experience, but if you look at the stats, AD has been incredible in the few playoff appearances that he's had. Even the first one he had against the Warriors, he pretty much just put up almost historic numbers against a team that was clearly one of the best in recent history. it just seemed like Whiteside was able to park himself in front of the rim

or the Blazers were able to go bigger with Nurkich and White Side at times and he was just like completely confounded it was almost like he got to the line a good deal but there were times where he would just settle for floaters and he would just pull up from mid-range and I'm like what's going on here and I think that's the one advantage

the Blazers said if you're able to play Whiteside and the Lakers if they're not going to just move him around an inch like the Grizzlies did and some of these other teams did, get him more in space, get him moving, and then that's pretty much the end of White Side. I just, I don't know, I'm just pretty disappointed in his debut thus far. Charks, you've been pretty high on AD overall, but just particularly in this postseason, what did you see from him last night? Well, I mean, it kind of goes back to what we've been talking about, right? If you're playing AD and Javelle McGee, you can double team AD, like, what's Chaville really going to do if his man's guarding him?

AD. And conversely, against the Blazers, what's Javelle going to do when Dame gets screened? Like, Javeil's going to guard 30 heat from the basket? Like, to me, it's just the obvious adjustment. You've got to get A.D. playing in space. And the way I do is to go smaller. And it's just like, I was watching the game. Like, this is just like so easy to see. To me, it's like he's wasted a game. Playing lineups are not going to work. I don't, I just don't think this is that big of an issue in terms of the Lakers playoff mortality right now, right? Like, LeBron James is a feel-out player. Like he comes into game once.

He kind of sees what's going on. He starts figuring out some strategies on the fly. And we saw some of that over the course of this game. Like there was a stretch where he and AD were just connecting for dunk after dunk after dunk after dunk. And then Portland crowded a little more and that went away a little bit. But you give him a little time to parse things. He's one of those players who gets better over the course of a series to the point where like this was a great shot for Portland. And honestly, the Blazers didn't play their best basketball necessarily.

they can play even better. I just, you know, I trust in LeBron as a guy who can figure those kinds of things out. And Davis is certainly a player who, as Justin mentioned, his playoff track record is pretty strong overall. It's just a matter of kind of getting the pieces aligned and figuring out some of the lineup and shooting stuff we've been talking about. I know you guys are smart guys and we're talking a lot about X's and O's and stuff like that, but I want to ask you guys something about more just sort of mentality and body language

and stuff what you saw. I was struck by the fact that with 35 seconds ago, the Lakers are kind of like, and down five that they were just like, all right, cool. Like, and they didn't foul. Guys just kind of stood around and just let the loss happen. I don't know if that means like they're supremely confident.

Or if it's the opposite where it was just like they were so beaten down that it was just over for them. And like, you know, I do think. asked AD about this after the game was sort of like, are you worried that like these offensive struggles are persisting against this defense, right? Like, this is not a good, this is not a good defensive team. And you weren't able to correct the code. We'll see, I guess, if this happens again, I wonder where they're at. Did he respond by, did he respond by saying he couldn't get his head in the game because there was no crowd noise? That's what it was. Yeah,

He said it was too distracting. You know, he didn't see Adam Levine in a Lamarcus Alders-Lakers, Jersey, that he broke out for the game. It was it was awkward for him. Now, I mean, he basically kind of said was like, you know, I'm not too worried about it, that it was more us than that. And that, you know, if we make three more shots, the game's different. And he's, I mean, like, statistically he's not wrong.

You know, I mean, if they make three, if they don't throw, you know, a three off the side of the backboard, which, by the way, I can't remember a playoff game where I saw that happened three times from the corner. That was amazing. But, you know,

if they step in ahead a couple of those shots, then yeah. But I think if they think that that was the Blazers' best shot, like Rob said, like, they're wrong.

Portland could be way better than that. Listen, there's only so much you could do against Hassan Whiteside, you know? Like, it's just... Or Wendy and Gabriel.

Or Wendy and Gabriel. He gave him some really good minutes. I do want to say this just briefly because we can't go a podcast without talking about Carmelo Anthony. So our producer TD, as soon as Melo hit that big shot last night, was quick to remind me of how good Melo has been in these situations in the playoffs. And I agree, Melo has been there to hit a catch and shoot three-pointer when he has missed probably four or five of them earlier in the game. He managed to make that shot. But I have to say, obviously White Side has been dinged a lot this postseason in the seating games and justifiably so.

I don't really see a difference between White Side and Mello for this team where they kind of like they'll give you something good. Occasionally they'll give you a lot of bad most of the time. And if White Sides able to just stand by the basket and be large, like he was like one of the most impactful players of that game last night. And I have to say, I guess my take is, let's cheer white side as much as Mello. How about that? Justin can't compliment Mello. It just can't do it.

I know. All right. Let's move along here. I think we could say, that's enough Mellow talk for one day. Let's move to the Clippers. Another disappointing opening performance, though, they did get that win.

I guess the concern there is how much this is attributable to Christop's, Porzingis for some reason getting ejected during that game. Obviously, the Clippers found a little bit something with Marcus Morris. And Morris finally showed himself to be valuable for this team, not only just in that small ball sort of center spot, but also getting someone ejected, which I think is his best attribute. Dan, you've watched this team closely all season long. Is this something that they can get over?

Are you pretty worried about them going to this next game when KP will be there? it's sort of the magic of discussing the clippers this year is like you've always been talking about like an idea instead of actually something in front of me you know this is i think tonight'll be the 13th game they've played as a as a complete roster which is remarkable considering we're talking about i don't know like 14 months of basketball it feels like that that that you know it's and now maybe it's there's always been an excuse with team because somebody hasn't been that someone who's been out or they've been you know dealing with load management or whatever it is um i still think like my general idea of the clippers is that and and i've said this a bunch is like i feel like the clippers were like a hundred dollars of stock and the lakers

were like a hundred dollar bill in your pocket that like i had a better idea of what the lakers were because i could see it whereas like the the clippers were sort of this tangent like this um intangible thing that like, well, if it matures and it comes like, this could really blow up, right? And so I still feel like they're a team that's still sort of searching. Reggie Jackson was pretty awful. I thought in game one, you know, but he's been a guy in the bubble who's flashed. I think the way their roster sort of built is, is like they don't have to be that good to win. Like just the sort of overall talent they have and the overall depth that if their two stars play well and they've got four other guys.

that can impact the game a bunch of different ways. And, you know, what day was that Monday? It was Marcus Morrison, you know, Vietzizizizu, you know. And tonight, maybe it's Lou Williams and Montres Harris Harris. Who knows? Rob, what do you think? I mean, to Dan's point, that was not just Reggie Jackson. That was a bad game for the Clipper bench for what's one of the deepest teams in the league.

Like, got really ineffective minutes, generally speaking. And yet it just didn't really matter. And some of that is KP being tossed out of the game, obviously. but Marcus Morse's role in that, I think is, I mean, clearly more than just the ejection given that he was guarding Luca Donchage for long stretches that game. And this was a game where we saw Doc Rivers proactively rotating between Beverly, between Kauai and Marcus Morris in particular. And then you saw Paul George get some spots on Luca, in part because Luca started tearing them apart, you know, after the first quarter, after that initial rash of turnovers. But that's just a lot of optionality for a team. And Morris in particular is a guy who, I mean, even when he was with the Knicks, he was, he was, he was, he was,

destroying the maps. They lost two games to the Knicks this season because Marcus Moore's just popped off and that's their fifth best player or whatever. So it's going to be interesting to watch, especially, you know, Chris, that's Porzingis is questionable for game two with some right knee soreness. So whether he's able to go or not is obviously a big variable, but the clippers just have so much going on. Yeah, I mean, they got 60 points from Kauai and Paul George. The Mavs have no one who can guard those guys. Neither do the nuggets or the jazz or most teams in the NBA. It's like, man, when those two guys are going,

it's just tough to beat the clippers. Yeah, the one nice thing about that small ball lineup, in addition to just all the offense that it gives them, is it forces Luca to have to guard someone. And that's always going to be a problem. I do wonder, to Dan's earlier point about, we don't really know, like, what the clippers are yet, I wonder if they're just kind of,

they have this ace in the hole here, where they can go to that small ball lineup whenever they want to, and it's going to be tough for any team, let alone a team like the Mavericks who has guys like Luca who would struggle on the defensive end. I would like to see, though,

if this is the case, if the Clippers are who we think they are, they could be this dominant team. I would like them to show it right now. Like not mess around with the Mavericks team that could easily just jump back into the series. They have the offense to really just get in this. But considering the defensive concerns for the Mavs,

I think it would be great, I guess for our own well, sake, just to know what we have in the Clippers, for them to just, like, be a dominant team for once. You want them to win tonight, 140 to, like, 83 or something. Yeah, exactly. Full-on, just, like, shlocking, like, 8 plus on both sides of both. I mean, I think that's the thing when you watch them a lot, and it's why they're really

hard to judge, is, like, you see this in glimpses, right? You see it in these five to seven-minute stretches where, I mean, they came, oh, If you're going to shoot 7 to 9 to start the game, I think, which is what they did. Like, you're going to look good, right, if you're making shots. But the quality of those shots was like, those were like, wide open. They're wide open because, you know, as John would point out, like, if everything is built around stopping Kauai and Paul George, and you know that's still probably not good enough. Like, when you space that with other shooters, a guy who I think has been really impressive

in the bubble in his limited minutes and who knows what his future is, Abiza Zubats, who now that his thumbs aren't broken like they were last. year. Like he had bad hands lash. Like that dude is a really good pick and roll catcher. He's got very, he's got very soft hands. And if he's finishing around the rim too, that's just another weapon for them. Another guy can get you 12 points. And it's just like, you've got to kind of suck down. And that's, hey, one of the things that that struck me in that game, like that game wouldn't have been as close, would have been even less close. You know, I think Lou Williams missed like three blow by layups to in that fourth quarter where he just,

because the defense went with the roller. And that's just what, they can do. They have so much offensive firepower. I still feel like defensively, we haven't seen obviously the best version of them. I don't know that we'll see it in this series. Dallas has a tremendous offense. Even in a game where Lucas says he was terrible, you just

see what he does so well, which is like, I think it's probably him and LeBron and maybe Harden are the guys that can get in the pain just like GPS a pass to a shooter somewhere out of triple teams and stuff like that. I don't know how you guard that. Like that seems to me like

something that is going to continue to happen in the series. And if Seth Curry and Tim Hardaway, if those guys make shots, Dallas is going to be in a lot of these games. The first thing, like, that play he had on Kauai at the end of the game, where he put his shoulder in Kauai's chest and bumped him back like three feet. It's like, if he's going to do that, how can you guard him, right? If he can push around Kauil and off the dribble, like, what are you going to do? And the thing about Luk is so great watching him is he's so good at finding the weakest player

on the opposing team, right? If it's Lou Williams, if it's Zubotch, whoever it is, you're a man's screening for me. I'm isolating on him. When y'all collapse, I'm finding a shooter. It's really simple basketball, and I'm not sure what the adjustment is because you can't play five great defenders at the same time. Not even the clippers have that, right? So if there's one bad defender, Luke is going to find him.

Once Luca finds him, either he's going to score or draw a foul, which is really, I think, an underrated part of his game. Like, I'm waiting for the backlash to begin when Louis, Luca draws like 25,000 a game, like pulling hard and stuff. Like, he does a lot of really a lot of things that would irritate other teams. Like, to me, I'm not sure how you guard him given the way he plays and how well the Mavs based before. And that's the reason to me why, you know, the MADs preemptively changed their starting

lineup coming into game one. I think I would go back to starting Seth Curry there because we saw it kind of compromise their offense a little bit, compromises their space, you know, compromise their spacing a little bit, putting Maxie Kleeb out there for the purpose of guarding Kauai. And that's kind of responding to what Dan was talking about this, you know, the Clippers as an idea. And they're such a terrifying team, the prospect of dealing with Kauai physically over the course of the series.

You want to put your best defenders out there. But if you surround liquid with that spacing and just go bombs away, that to me is your best chance of winning this series. Well, and like I was saying before with the Lakers, too, like I think like you just have to be the best version of yourself and hope is good enough, you know, a lot of times that I think. And then that's obviously what Dallas says. I mean, like all, like this is a, a historical.

good offense. It's a historically good offense because of Luca Donchich. And Christop's forcing us, but mostly because of Luca Donchich. And the clippers can't really stop them. Even, you know, even the 11, was it 11 or 12 turnovers, I forget? 11, I think. 11, yeah.

Yeah. Even the 11 turnovers, like the early ones were like backbreakers, but like, yeah, like you put the, like, that dude had the ball the entire game. You know, and it still didn't feel like it killed them. I mean, this feels like that's maybe the kind of series where

Luca Dach's score is 38 to 44 points every game and the Mavs might still lose them five. Yeah, and it's scary because the Mavs... That could happen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Mavs don't even have their full compliment of players. They don't have Dwight Powell. They don't have

Jalen Brunson, KP, obviously... Love Dwight Powell. Love it. I love Dwight Powell. Big Dwight Powell fans on the podcast. Seriously, I think Dwight Powell would make a huge difference in this series. He does some cool Love it. But yeah, clearly a bright future ahead of them.

But I don't know. I think KP is going to probably be the pivot guy here for me. Just because if you're forcing Zubach to guard that far out, I mean, that's obviously an advantage for Mavs. And I don't know how like where Trez is at this point. Can you count on him in crunch time? I don't know. He seems like he's in a pretty rough mental space too.

Based on, you know, what he's sad. what he's tweeted and stuff about all of this. Obviously, Lasca's grandmother is a very big deal to him. You would think that typically, right, like time and getting back into a rhythm would help with some of that stuff, but he's a pretty emotional player to begin with.

So if his head is, if that formula is a little off-kilter, like who knows, right? Like, he was not very effective in the first game. It didn't really feel like he had a real, real pulse on the game, didn't really do anything. But yeah, like I think kind of what we all said, like that bench was really bad. Generally speaking, I feel like, you know, there's going to be a game where

sham it hits three-threes and there are big shots. You know, Reggie Jackson's going to get to the rim and do that stuff. And that's just something, the quality of players that the Clippers have to kind of count on and that stuff is, is just different than what Dallas has. It's different than what a lot of teams have. For sure. All right, let's take a quick break here. And when we come back, we're going to bounce around the league a little bit with a little group chat, show and tell.

Group chat is brought to you by FandualSportsbook, official sports betting partner of the Ringer podcast network. Looking for a better way to bet on your favorite sports online? Unlike other sports books, Fanduel accepts most major payment options. And when you win, you can receive your winnings in your bank account in as little as 48 hours through a safe and secure process. Check out the Fandual Sportsbook app today to experience. sports betting the way it always should have been. Fan duel, more ways to win. Must be 21 plus and present

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So let's talk about some other teams here. this little group chat show and tell. I told Dan that we're going to do a grab bag style of bounce around the league. And he responded by sending a GIF, which seemed to be like a wombat as a baby, grabbing at something. What was that? Was that a rat?

I just, I like the GIF like search. So I just put it grab. Yeah. Second one that came up. Number two. Yeah. Well, here's the thing here.

I want to take a quick side trip. So, something about babies, considering that we have two recent fathers here, right? Have you guys noticed how much baby talk there has been in the playoffs thus far? I feel like every time I watch a Celtics game, I hear more about Jason Tatum's baby, who I'm sure is lovely and a great person. But that's like all they talk about. It's like Jason Tatum gets to the basket.

I bet you do like that one. It's just like, I really don't need to hear about babies in general, but I specifically don't need to hear about them. in my play out basketball. It's called family values, Justin. You're an LA guy. You don't get it. I mean, it's cool. And flyover country,

we appreciate stuff like this. It's no big deal. I mean, Justin staking out anti-mello on this podcast perpetually and anti-baby. His mentions, hit him up on Twitter. Add Justin Verrier, please. It is a very talked about baby. I will agree that it is,

to the extent that it's like, there are other people, presumably on the Celtics that have, children that we know nothing. That we know nothing about. I wonder if, if, my apologies,

if that baby's name was Rob, for say, instead of dudes, would we spend as much time talking about the baby? It is a good name for a baby. That's true. It's good branding for the baby. Start him early.

Does he have an Instagram account? We need to get that for him. Darren Rovell's got it locked already. He takes care of it. And the sin is. It is kind of like we learned nothing from the whole Riley Curry situation, which got kind of uncomfortable pretty quickly once a baby became like part of the NBA spotlight. Like let's chill on toddlers getting the full attention of the NBA apparatus, please. Does this make me the new win horse then coming out as anti baby?

Do you guys remember this? Oh, like the anti like don't bring them to the post game. Yeah, which by the way, I'm pro that. That's just, it gets in the way. And then we're at the point where it's just like Chris Paul's son is answering questions. more than Blake Griffin is just like too much. Shout out little Chris. I've definitely been in a lot of press conferences with little Chris.

My favorite, my favorite, I won't tell the full story, but this is my favorite NBA baby moment was there was a veteran NBA player who does not typically get podium games, who had a podium game and had like a 15-month-old son that came into the room, ran up and said, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, Daddy, and then went and hugged the LA Times Brad Turner instead.

Instead of his father. Oh, man. That's my favorite in me, baby, that's great. I don't think you could top that. I'm sorry, Deuce, but you really have something to live up to here.

All right, on that note, let's talk about some of these other series. We're pretty much going to just bounce around from panelists to panelists here, I guess. Each one brought a little something talk about. Let's start with you, Rob. What do you want to show us? I want to talk about how Jimmy Butler is the most misunderstood player in the league.

And some of this is... The barista. The brista. The brista. Thriving coffee business in the bubble. But beyond that, I mean, I think we've been talking about Luca in this conversation and LeBron and the effects those guys have on their offense. I'm sure we'll talk about James Harden. And the idea of these stars who, I think it was Seth Hartnow who coined the term heliocentric. The idea that you're just funneling your entire offense through this one. guy. And the presence of those players has kind of warped our idea of what a star should be and can be. And so when Jimmy Butler isn't that kind of guy, he's not the kind of guy who's going to take

30 shots in a game, who's going to have a dominant usage rate per se. I think it's natural to look at him a certain way. I think the league tends to regard him as kind of one of these second tier stars, maybe towards the back end of that group. But like, he is unbelievable just in terms of his impact on a game. A guy who can facilitate, a guy who can get to the line for 10 free throws pretty much on command, guard the hell out of anyone. We saw him basically just blow up TJ Warren's spot so many times in game one where they're trying to feed him the ball.

This was a pretty good week for NBA players in general, the guys who really like to talk their shit and then back it up, you know, a Dame Lillard, Jimmy Butler special. And his, you know,

his presence in game one, his impact on that game, I thought was just spectacular. Did you see him yell at the virtual fans? No. That's the mic up we need. He scored at a certain point. and like,

yelled directly at a video board. He's got to get pumped up from the home fans. This is what the Lakers are missing. There's a great fourth quarter moment. He's like scooped up in Guadal. Right? Is that kind of what he is? Like a guy that like you'd feel on paper,

you'd feel good about Jimmy Butler standing out at the three point line and shooting. Like the numbers say you should let him do it. When it's a big shot, it feels like he steps into it. He did against Indiana, certainly. And then, yeah, I mean, he is like a shutdown corner, essentially, on defense. He's a lot of fun to watch.

And I think it's one of those things where you watch when you're just like, why do teams not want him? Why do they keep trading him? Wait, hold on. I think I know why. I don't think he endears himself to everybody in an organization. Shouldn't you? But, like, I mean, is he good enough?

Here's like, this is more of an existential place. Is he good enough? And maybe this speaks to Rob's thing where we don't think him this way. Is he good enough for you to change your culture around? That's the thing. It's like if he put up numbers that were like, you know, a James Hardin or a Luca, obviously those are MVP level numbers. But we think of those players in a certain way.

I think Jimmy Butler is closer to that level than we realize in terms of the impact he has on a game. It's just when he gets the, you know, when someone's setting a screen for him to come into a potential handoff, he cuts backdoor and gets a free layup instead of taking like a really tough step back three. Well, here's what it is. Do you know how many playoff series he's won in the last six years? Can I guess? I guess.

Three. I'm going to guess one. Oh, two. So it's like he just got to do it. I mean, he talks a lot like he's LeBron James. And he just has got to back it up. He's 30 years old, not a great shooter. This is his time.

It's his team, right? The heater, his organization. and he always knows he knows how to win. He's very insistent about that. It's like, all right, this is your team, this is your time. Let's just see you do it. He is indeed very insistent about that.

I mean, I would say just a real quick. Like, I think that he is, it is fascinating that, like, hearing that from Jonathan, and thinking about it is sort of like, you know, that's right. And my initial thing is sort of like, well, it's more just bad luck on his part

that like this version of him exists at a time when Step Curry, James Hart, like all these other players are in the league too. And maybe that's, maybe that's why he's the 17th best player or something like that, or whatever we think he is. And that's maybe why. I don't know. There has been waves of shit that have followed him, like, kind of like that, like, he stirs wherever he goes.

The heat sort of feel like the best possible place for him. I don't know. I'm kind of in. I'm kind of in on Miami. Yeah, I mean, he fits the culture so well. You don't really need Jimmy Butler to establish your culture and to really act as the de facto superstar because the culture there in the heat goes back to freaking Alonzo morning or whatever.

They talk about it all the time. Like, they won't shut up about their culture. And so this is really probably the best place for him just because he can kind of come and go and it really doesn't matter as much. Like, he has this big game. But if he doesn't have a big game next time, And Gordon Drogich is the guy that really steps up for him.

I think that's the best place for him. The depth plus all of the ring slash slick back hair, I think, is just like in his best interest. Justin, you did something that reminded me of what I really enjoyed from that heat Pacers game, which is you said, Dragich's name. You said Drogich. I think you flipped him. I forgot who, I think it was Jim Jackson, I think was calling that game. I think there was a, like a period where Drogich.

had maybe seven or eight points. And he had a great fourth quarter. And they set his last name a different way each time. Oh, I do that every podcast. So strap in my friend. As someone with a hard to pronounce last name, which has been currently, I haven't phonetically spelled on my Zoom

to try to help out, help out PR people. It still doesn't matter. People still blow it. What do you usually get? Wokey. Hey, these days. That's a good rap name. It's a good brand to have.

Dan Wolky. Deuce and Wokey? That's the next album. Number two radio show, I think. Deer Stadium is way too famous to be saddled with someone like me. That's for sure. This is true. All right.

Let's move along here. I am going to bring up the Houston Rockets. We talked about them in our first podcast a couple weeks ago. They just looked really, really scary. It just didn't seem like the Thunder, a team. that bases their offense on a lot of precision and just like this regimented style led by Chris Paul, like knew what to do against them. They were just, everyone was out in space and especially when CP wasn't on the floor. You just saw a lot of Dennis Schrooter just kind of try to barrel his head

in or just a lot of stagnation. I don't know. This is all without Russell Westbrook. Just a really, really impressive performance from Houston to start with. Rob, you actually wrote about this going into this series. Were you surprised at all the success Houston had against O'KC? Not entirely. I mean, we talk a lot about their offense with the Robert Covington trade, but it really was as much about the defense and the idea that you can replace traditional rim protection from a guy that Clint Capella with this guy in

Covington, who's just all over the floor, wreaking havoc, getting deflections, and that's kind of what their defense has become and part of what makes it so difficult. The Thunder in that game looked like a good team that really, really needed a film session. Like, they really just need to see everything from a different point of view to understand where the angles are. And I think the rest of the series could be a little more, you know, could work a little bit more in their favor in that regard.

They'll figure some stuff out as they go. Certainly when you have a guy like CP on the floor, he's going to help you along with that stuff. But the rocket's defense and the rocket's ball movement, I thought were just incredible. And it was just really precision stuff in terms of the swing passes from the wing to the corner and back to the wing. They were just working the thunder defense over any time, you know, they committed two to the ball or they crash in the paint as James Hardin basically demands that you do. Charks, what do you

think? Yeah, my thought with that, it's going back to what we talk about with the Portland series. So last year in the playoffs, Danilo Gallinari played the five against the Warriors. That was a really good series, Clippers Warriors first round. So OKC comes into this series. They have this option. They're like, no, we've got to play Stephen Adams. We've got to play Merleys and well. Like, why? I don't understand that. Like, you knew it was going to happen. Like, what is Stephen Adams? doing out there that's so valuable in a small ball series, right? That's just burning a game. To me, like Rob was saying, like game two, you've got to go smaller, play Gallo, may play Darius Basley. You just know for a fact, a traditional big who cannot put his own shot and cannot

guard a three point line, what's his value against Houston? Why are you even playing him? See, I think Adams can play in this series. I think it's Noel that's out, and I think it's Mike Muscala that's out. Like, the idea of putting a big who's like kind of an okay three point shooter, but doesn't give you anything defensively, that guy is just dead in the water. You have to be able to cover more ground than a guy like Mike Muscala can. Hey, Rob, going back to what we were saying a couple weeks ago,

can you put some respect on Jeff Green's name? Look, since we're among friends, I want you guys to help me stay strong in these times after Jeff Green put up a Hall of Fame level performance in game one to know that what we have seen in his career, what we saw in this season from him with the jazz, like that is who Jeff Green is. this is you know he contains multitudes and this was one of those jeff green experiences

dan you you had a jeff green stint on the clippers right he he bounced around to the clippers eventually he was a clipper um they traded a lamb stevenson in a first round pick for him at the trade deadline yikes it did not work out um so he was lovely he was lovely to be around i i enjoyed him i still enjoy seeing him um he's tantalizing so am i am i am i my i'm I contractually obliged to say that about Jeff Green that he's tantalizing. And I remember watching him earlier this year in Utah, and he was playing back up center

occasionally there ahead of Tony Bradley. And I think I saw the jazz like two or three times during the season. I like the look, actually, of Jeff Green's center. It made some sense to me. I think so far with Houston, it's made some sense. but yeah, I mean, that's, it's like I wouldn't want to build my house on that foundation. Like, I feel a little uneasy about it.

It's sort of, it's like a waterbed. Dan, who's at the top of your list of guys when you're going around the league that you are most excited to bump into? Is it Willie Green? Well, Willie is a fantastically nice person. I love Austin Rooms. This is Logged at a corner of the internet. that I've carved out. I like Austin Rivers because there's no pretense.

Like you know exactly what you're going to get. And that is the most confident human being I've ever met in my life. But it's like totally genuine. There's no like, that is like he is absolutely who he is. I remember there was, we were in Houston when he was on the Clippers once. And I'll try to tell a story. I love this story. And we're talking about like how hard it is to judge.

sort of generation of generations of players against one another. Right? Like, how do you compare Bob Coosie to Chris Ball? Right? Totally different games. And Austin members was like, yo, for real, I'd give Bob Coosie 100. And I was like, and I was like,

I was just kind of like, don't write that. You can't write that. And I'm like, okay, fine. Like, so I left. Well, then he played well in the first round of the playoffs, I think against San Antonio. And so I was like, oh, okay, like this is a good.

time to circle back to see if he still thinks he'd give Bob Coosie 100. And so we were at practice, like I'd pulled him aside and I had asked him. I was like, hey, you know, you remember you told me this, he said not to write it. And he had like this look of like self-play kind of, like he knew what would happen when the internet saw that he would say, you know, I could score 100 points on Bob Coosie. And then like for a second, he was like, fuck you write that shit. So yeah. So yeah. I'll have to have a minute. happy that Jamal Crawford is back in the NBA. I love seeing Jamal Crawford. I did mention

PJ Tucker. He's great. And then, yeah, no, it's, that's kind of my, my sort of list. The fun part of those clippers teams I covered was like they had their core, like sort of five. And then they changed everybody else every season. So you would get like one year with

somebody. And like sort of like the one year, like the guy that was going to fix the clippers that year always changed. Grand Hill. Yeah, Grant Hill. Yeah. Grant Hill. It was Spencer Hawes for a year. It was Ryan Cook for a year. Wow. Oh, this is some deep cuts.

Oh, great. Yeah, Darren Collison for a season. You know, and it just kind of just kept like this sort of revolving door of that's. Kito Turkaloo, Turkish Airlines. Turkish Airlines. That was the nickname I gave. That's great. All right.

I don't know how to tip it off of Turkish Airlines. Can I mention another player, though? Obviously. Enter and my show and tell. Can we appreciate Nicola Vucevich? Hmm. I did want to get into the box here, so this is a perfect transition. We're actually going to talk about him in a second, so.

Thank you. Yeah. So let's talk about the bucks. Go ahead. I just, I, look, Nicola Vusovic is never going to win you a playoff series as your best player. He's just not. But, like, instead of sort of kind of holding that against, like, it's his fault, that he's like that level of good,

man, that dude's consistent. And he's fun to watch. He approaches the game in the right way, in my opinion. Seems like a good teammate. Like, I just, I like watching him play. He's so solid. Like, I kind of heard last year that,

and sort of the clipper sort of searched to pair Kauai Leonard and Paul George with somebody, or particularly like Kauai, that like Vucevich was a guy, that was sort of like a little further down their list that they liked. Wakers as well. It's like the 80 thing. Like both teams were kind of sort of that.

And I think it'd be fun to see him as sort of complimentary player on a good team because I think he's better on the events that people give him credit for. And offensively like that dude has like all the clubs in his bag. He's one of those guys who I remain kind of pleasantly baffled by. You know, when guys come into the league and they establish themselves, you get an idea of who they are as a player. And especially in thinking about, like, where he was in the context of the league. I had an idea of him. And then the next season, oh, all of a sudden, his assists are going from like to a game to four a game.

Okay. All of a sudden, he's working a little more out of the elbows. All of a sudden, he's stretching a three-point range. Now he's shooting, you know, in the mid-30s. He just keeps adding these little wrinkles to his offensive game in particular. And it's like, okay, I agree with Dan. As your best player, it kind of puts your team in a particular spot. And he's certainly not, you know, as a center if you're valuing rim protection, he is not that

guy. But he does everything else. He really does have every other tool. Tell me something he can't do other than score on Marcusol. And that's the kind of base you're working with, which is kind of a fabulous place to start for an offensive player, especially a guy who doesn't tend to get a lot of love. Well, the magic don't have any rim protectors on the roster.

So, yeah. argues against that, by the way. By the way, I just yelled Kemperches and my dog is going insane. I don't know. That's some sort of weird Babylonian thing in my house. I don't know why you named your dog, Ken Birch, but that's a little weird. Chirks, what do you think about this series? So obviously the magic got the win in the first one.

They shot kind of above their heads. Is this something the bucks need to worry about in these next games? Well, I think long term, this kind of raises the issue that's always kind of looming over the bucks in the background. It's their defensive strategy where you have Brooke in the paint. We're going to take away all rim shots. We're giving you the three. I think they gave up the most threes in the league or something this year, one of the bottom two teams.

And it worked really, really well in the regular season. I'm just so curious to see in the playoffs. You even saw it against the match in game one, the Vucevich pick and pop. It's like sometimes it's like for as good as they are in defense, it's so easy to get a good shot against them. It's a little shocking. And it's like you just wonder as these series go on,

as the competition increases, can teams just shoot the bucks off the floor they play the style of defense. There's definitely a systemic weakness there. And certainly guys like Damien Lillard will exploit it. I think this game one was a little bit, though, of the Bucks not really taking the magic very seriously. And those shots very serious. There's a way to play drop where you present some resistance.

And in the first half, they were not really interested in doing that. I was just, I had sort of like a bigger philosophical question for you guys, just because I trust all of your best weapon ends. How much do we think defense is going to matter in the bubble? like it just doesn't it feels like these games are all like or largely like have devolved into shootouts um like that there's something about

the sort of open run nature of these games that and I don't know that we've heard guys I believe um your very esteemed colleague uh Pablo Getty Pablo Getty who's that was his cousin

um Paul he wrote a really good story yeah Paulo Paulo wrote a really good story where I think you talked to Dema Booker, right, about it being kind of a shooter's gym. Right? And for like these great shooters, like the rim just looks like so big and stuff like that.

I wonder, I'm very curious to see like these teams that sort of build their, their identity or around the defensive side of the basketball. Like how much that's going to matter? I mean, you would think it way, maybe it doesn't change that much, but I don't know. Watching these games at least anecdotally, it feels like offenses. are feasting and the teams I would like want to dig in defensively like I think I look I think there have been seven teams that have scored 93 points or less in bubble games so far or seven times it's happened the Lakers have done it three times which is shocking that's a stat for you

but the like it's to me it just feels like if you can go out there like you and you can score you're going to have to score on 25 points to what these games yeah so we're like We're talking about drop bigs here. So, Charks, you want to turn a nerd corner right now? So, Dan, every week we do a little deep dive into a subject on Charks' mind. And Charks, you want to tell us about some drop bigs? Well, I mean, it's kind of going off what Dan was saying.

Like that the Jazz Nuggets game, game one, right? So Utah's built this whole defense around Rudy Gobert, how I can take away the paint, right? how you can cover up everything. And then in game one, he's guarding Nicola Yokic, you can shoot from 30 feet, who can dribble off the, you know, take a ball off the drowns, make pass out of double teams.

And it's like, how good can go bear be in these playoff games against a guy like Yokic? Like, can you guard someone like that? Like, can you shut down Nicola Yokic? And that's like your main skill as a center as a defensive player, especially the way the league is moving,

it does feel like as teams move to five, three-point shooters all over the floor, it's just hard and hard to guard these teams. I don't know what the adjustment is beyond score back with them. Jeff Green at Center. Always. If we're talking about drop defenses and their efficacy in the playoffs and what the alternative to that would be and would look like,

it kind of also plays in a dance point about, to me, the defensive test case in these playoffs is Toronto. That's a team that can do anything you want, any coverage, any style, they will guard anybody really effectively. how far can that take them? Because if they are the only team that can stop anybody in the playoffs, all of a sudden that seems like

a huge advantage that they might be able to leverage. Yeah, I jump in with some breaking news, guys. Brooklyn has 26 points in the first eight minutes of this game. So just cut that. This is the beauty of live television, my friends. No, I mean, but to Dan's point,

this is honestly one of my biggest fascinations about this, I just wonder how much just the curveball of the environment is actually going to play. I mean, a team like the Bucks, if you're going to let the magic shoot threes normally, pretty much under any normal conditions, that's the right strategy, right? This team cannot shoot that well. Ultimately, the numbers are going to go in your favor. But if they just happen to shoot above their heads, if the sight lines or whatever are just so

much better, are we going to see so many upsets? We already got two eighth seeds winning their first game, which, I can't remember the first time that's ever happened if it has ever happened. I think it happened in 2003, I think, where what were they,

Detroit, I think, lost to somebody? I don't remember. Somebody tweeted it. Sure, I'll believe you. Just make a baby.

It's happened once. Me and Rob weren't high school in those days, Dan, so you're a show in your, you know, I think though, too, with offense, it is game one,

right? Teams are going to make adjustments. And to me, I kind of going over this whole podcast just talking about you've got to adjust to playing guys you can cover in space. If everyone's shooting jumpers well, you've got to play lineups where everyone can guard the three point line.

And as you do that, it feels like in the regular season, you can kind of play a big at the rim and live with some shots and it doesn't really matter. But in these playoffs with like the way the game is moving, you just got to be able to guard in space.

Like what Houston's doing works. Right? Like Rob was saying earlier, like that trade for Covington was much about defense's offense. because Houston can guard the three-point line all the way around, right, with five positions. And that's the way the game is going. And that seems like for Houston, two might the clippers, right, you can adjust to those

lineups. And that might be the advantage going forward. Well, that's always the big thing that comes up when you talk to people in the league about drop defenses in general is the idea, and especially Mike Boodenholzer in the bucks, this team that notoriously will stick to its system. Like, they believe in what they do. They're going to commit to what they do. They're not going to change purposely.

That's a pointed decision. And over 82 games, the data will prove you right. It will prove you as one of the best defenses in the league. And you're going to play enough Cleveland's in Charlott's. Or maybe Charlotte's a bad example with the season that they had pulling up off the dribble from three. But enough subparred offenses that are going to play right into your hands that it's going to work. Against top caliber competition, you shrink the sample size from 82 or 60-something games all the way down to seven. Is it just fluky enough to get you knocked out of the playoffs by a team that you probably shouldn't be losing?

to. And that's, I think it's a pretty valid criticism and just like, that's the bulk of the philosophical conversation around drop in general. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, though, is that going to be a better aesthetic product? I mean, so clearly the NBA is in this weird nebulous place where ratings are becoming an issue and they're definitely going to be more of a factor next season when, I don't know if they're going to have a season. If they are, what's it going to look like? Dan, like, do you like the chaos that's kind of happened thus far? Absolutely. I mean, I think, especially coming on the sort of the heels of the Brahms going to come out of the east, the warriors are going to come out of the West. Like, I don't know what's going on. It's funny. The L.A. Times made me do predictions for the first round.

Made me do. I was asked to. I didn't want to predict anything because I feel like this is such a. And I remember going into it thinking, like, the only thing I know for sure is that something weird is going to happen. And then you start to look at all the different series and you try to figure out what the weird thing is going to be. And I think I ended up just, I went chalk. I was like, I know something strange is going to happen. So let me pick the Lakers, the Clippers. That's why you're a vet, man.

That's a vet. Let me just do the easy thing. But yeah, and that's, there were so many like, so many things that we like hold true or that people in the league hold true. I was thinking about this. Like, what's your favorite playoff cliche that is no longer applicable this year.

The series doesn't start until the home team loses, which that doesn't matter anymore. Like that for sure doesn't matter. Or role players play better at home in the playoffs. Like that's like another big one. Like that doesn't apply. So just trying to figure out I was talking to somebody today. Like what does game three look like in a two oh series now?

Like that used to be this like kind of like make or break. Like we're going to put everything into this game. if we win it, like, we've got a real series. If you're the lower-seated team, does that feel the same? I don't know. And I think that's why it's hard to really project out. I mean, I think ultimately, right, like I'll bet on talent.

It's just sort of the, that feels like the safest bet. But we could see something super strange. I probably bet on that versus, you know, a Lakers bucks finals. you know, like it seems unlikely that both one seats are going to survive that. That something weird is going to happen between now and middle October. Yeah, it's funny you say that. So at the Dallas Morning News, right, grew up the hometown paper. They had this legendary footballer named Rick Gosselin.

They made him do predictions. So he was like, whatever, I'm picking the home team every single time. Because he knew he'd win like 55% of his games. Like, I thought you got to just pick the home team. Well, there's no home team now. So, yeah, it's kind of up in the air. Well, guys, I would pick. you to win in any situation. Wow. That was, that was a rough transition. Very sweet. Okay, well,

we'll end it there. And on a high now or really, really, really low note. Dan, thank you for joining us this week. Thanks for coming on, man. Yeah, I will, it's good to see some, some human faces before I head to Florida and actually get to interact with people in person. This is great. I love being on Zoom. So this is super fun for me. Say hi to your baby for me, if you will. He's a good baby. All right, for Rob, for Charks, for Dan, and for myself, we will see you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.