The Ringer NBA Show - The Lakers Hire JJ Redick, LeBron’s Window, and Our Worst Takes From the Season | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

Logan, Raja, and Howard are back to react to the Lakers hiring JJ Redick as their head coach, then discuss if he’ll be on a short leash next season (01:30). They also get into whether LeBron James has accepted his winning window has closed or if he’ll join another contender (15:40). Then, they briefly talk about the Alex Caruso–Josh Giddey trade and how this helps OKC (37:34). Afterward, producer Kerm joins to revisit some of the guys’ worst takes from this season (41:07). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck Producers: Jonathan Kermah and Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and follow Ringer NFL on Instagram and TikTok and at Ringer NFL on X and YouTube. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there, Howard Beckett the motherfucking cut produced by Kiggity Kerm. Wack, Wack, Wack, Whop! Whop! Wark a buck.

All right, there we go. I ain't gonna do that. No, we ain't going to come in with a kiddrick Lamar. We ain't go do that. Hey, hey, um, no, we ain't come in with that. So I think I got that all settled. So, yeah, we're here to talk some basketball.

We got the JJ Redick stuff. Again, Howard has no idea what's going on at this moment. We're going to get into the JJ Redick hiring. Then we're going to get into our worst takes of the year, into a worst takes conversation. Let's start with this JJ Redick stuff. It has been a journey. It is finally over in one regard.

And then just beginning in another, we have a four-year deal for Mr. Reddick. He has been hired by the Los Angeles. Lakers to steer them into a direction. I have no idea where it's going. I don't think anyone does. A lot of thoughts for me going into this, but I want to hear you guys' thoughts.

The first things that come to mind is how long before this guy is on the hot seat and is he going to make, how far if we're throwing a betting, Howard, I'm going to put you right on the spot. Is he going to, is he going to, is he going to, live out this deal, this four-year deal. If you had to guess at this very moment, and that's a wild question to ask when someone just gets hired. But I think in this context, with the history of the Los Angeles Lakers, this is a fair question to ask. Boy, this is tough. The thing is, the Lakers own track record since the last Phil Jackson era, their track record has been really

shitty with regard to coaching, hiring and firings. They just don't stick with anybody real long, including when you win a championship, Frank Vogel. So I don't trust the Lakers on any level at this stage to exercise any kind of long-term vision, stay consistent in their convictions. I don't know what they're about at this stage. That said, I think it's pretty clear when you're hiring a coach in 2024, JJ or anybody else, whoever they had hired, you know that the end of LeBron's career. is coming soon. You know that the coach you're hiring, if you're giving them a four-year deal,

that that coach is your bridge to the post-Lebron era. Like, between JJ and LeBron, I think JJ's probably the more likely to still be there three, four years from now than LeBron. LeBron's starting 40 in December. So I have to, I don't have to. I would like to believe that the Lakers looked at this hire and said, who do we want to lead us beyond the LeBron era? Who do we think can handle LeBron right now and grow into the job in the future and steer whatever that team looks like in 2026, 7? And so I'm going to give the Lakers the benefit of the doubt at this moment

and say that JJ is going to fulfill this contract, that he's going to weather whatever storms come, and that the Lakers on some level have to know at this stage. They're not contenders anymore. They're just not. Listen, it's June 21st. I don't know what's going to happen this offseason. It's the NBA.

A lot of wild things happen. But as of right now, the Lakers are not contenders. They need to know that. They have to know that. And so I think the pressure on JJ should probably be less than the last couple folks who preceded him because they're not at that stage anymore. Roger, I'm hesitant to even access questions. to Rajah considering he's on vacation right now with a beautiful blue wall in the back of him.

He has a fuck off on the riverside, on his riverside name of fuck off. He's really in his bag right now. He's drinking his fucking, probably a spite coffee at this point. Anyways, Howard said that, you know, deserved to give the Lakers the benefit of the doubt and that why? I'm not saying that I apologize. Continue. Go ahead.

I was, go, okay, so, okay, because I'm kind of with you on this one. Howard spoke beautifully and eloquently, but I do have some, some, I do have some holes. I do send some holes in your theory. I don't think that the Lakers deserve any benefit of the doubt. I didn't say they deserved it. I said, I'm just giving it. I'm generous. That is different.

There is a different. Again, I do not think that they deserve the benefit of the doubt that considering how they treated people. And also, if you look at the reporting of the athletic right now, I mean, we'll get to this at a second. just behind the seams how fractured of a front office search this was for the coach to even get to this point, right? Like there's clear indications that Jeannie Bus wanted Dan Hurley. And there, whereas Palinca, it doesn't seem like the Lakers are even on the right page to get this to, to, to, they don't seem like the Lakers don't seem like they're on the right page to, on the same page to,

for do anything over the last couple of years. And I guess my question to Raja is, is there any attributes? I'm trying to get you to play devil's advocate, which you do very greatly. Is there a world in which J.J. Reddick has this stuff together to even get them to a point where they can even be successful? Because I don't think this is the continued basketball team,

on top of the fact that this is a first-time head coach, which is interesting that they went the same direction in hiring another first-year-old. time head coach and knowing that they're going to have to deal with this stuff even more. There's no imagination about this higher rajah. There is, it seems like another guy set up to fail that is caught up in the crosshairs and a agenda that is beyond him and the politics that are beyond him, also feeding into his ego to be a coach.

It seems like there's a lot more just, ugh, every time I think about this coaching search and what came of it. There's a lot to unpack there, Logan, Howard. I would say, first of all, I'm not giving the Lakers the benefit of the doubt with this. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Recent track record speaks for itself. To your point, Logan, you just had a first-time head coach in a similar situation with a roster that was slightly younger than the one that JJ's can inherit,

and you pulled the plug on that after a couple of seasons. And so you're telling me you're going to reset that clock to JJ Redick. Like JJ might be better than Darwin. I don't know. I know this. I know it for a fact. A lot of guys are very, very bright,

have played basketball with an attention to detail and are very, very tight in terms of being able to articulate strategies and what they would do in certain situations and are very good in front of a monitor and talking about that and being able to express that and maybe even interview in that space, until you have coached at any level, right? Now, I haven't been an NBA coach, but I've been a coach at other levels, even in high school, until you're in a huddle as the person that all eyes are on to draw up the play,

when emotions are riding at their highest and people are looking to you for answers, you don't know what that is. Mind you, I was a guy on the other side of that where I did have a lot of answers, where it was easy for me in a pro game, not being the guy who was looked to for the answers to say, oh shit, we should be doing X, Y, and Z. But as soon as that gets flipped around and you're the one with the board in your hand,

the dynamics change. It doesn't mean that he won't be good at it. I actually pull for JJ. I think, you know, like, but this roster and LeBron, you never get to live in two worlds when you're with LeBron. They don't exist.

And Howard, you kind of said that the Lakers understand where they are and this is a play. that will extend them past LeBron, and this is the coach to kind of, you don't get to live in both of those worlds. When you have LeBron, it's just a fact. Like, you don't live in both of those worlds.

He's not going to allow you to do that, unless LeBron is at a point in his career where he does not want to try to win championships anymore. And that would be the first time I've seen a guy of that level of player say, hey, I'm just going to be cool these last couple of years, you know, like not chasing the championship and not being the best version of myself.

I guess you could make the argument for MJ, like with the Wizards. But LeBron, LeBron's never been that. LeBron's always kept the pressure on an organization to try to win, to do what it is required to win. And I just don't know that you can live

in both of those worlds where you're trying to accomplish that and maximize whatever's left of LeBron and AD and then also have a young coach learning on the fly, trying to be ready for this new version of the Lakers whenever that happens. I just don't see that.

It sounds good to say, and, you know, say and leak and tell L, everyone from a front office standpoint that you want to develop Austin Reeves and Max Christie and all these people into championship level role players while trying to maximize AD who me and Rajah would come a long way but we agree that Anthony Davis is nowhere near a number one so you're saying to you're saying to us

it feels like the Lakers front office even through back channels or whoever they talk to. It feels like they think that the people that are reading this stuff is stupid. They think that Kerm is stupid. They think that Jemmy is stupid. I think that Raja fuck off Bell is stupid. Like, I don't... It seems like whenever

I think about the Lakers front office, Howard, it's always been some level of dysfunctional, right? I mean, you've covered it even in the 90s when they were winning late 90s and early 2000 when they were winning championships. We talked about that in the Jerry West episode, about how dysfunctional this front office is. But it seems to take on a new level right now, right? Even in this coaching search, even in how they have fake acquiesced to LeBron,

but like they say they have it, but yet they're going to pick, they're probably going to pick Brony for 55th. And then even this, even this higher right now for JJ, whether it is or it isn't, it's going to have the stench of LeBron all over it. what is this whole dynamic the last couple of years of the Lakers front office, including this hire, say about where the front office is at this current moment?

I'm not going to tell you that there's no issues in the front office. There clearly are. There's plenty of reporting out there about that. I'm not going to tell you that LeBron James doesn't have his fingerprints on some of the things that have been done over the last four or five years. He clearly does. But I will just say this. if LeBron were as, you know, as big of a force as everybody's assuming him to be in these kinds of decisions,

they would have hired to Ron Liu and given Ty Lou the contract and the assistant coaches and everything else that he wanted when they had the opportunity to get him. They didn't. They screwed that up. And it's part of why they're now on whatever, their third head coach since that fateful moment. And meanwhile, Ty Lou is extending with the Clippers, their cross town. rivals who also, by the way, did a much better job at honoring the memory of Jerry West than the Lakers did, but that's a whole other story. Look at the Lakers coaching hires for the last 10 years. And this predates LeBron. The hired Byron Scott, who I don't think anybody else in the league

was hiring Byron Scott anymore at the moment that the Lakers did, but Byron Scott was family. They hired Byron Scott because he was family. He followed Mike Dantone, which was an ill-fated ride because of all kinds of things. You know, Kobe Powell, Nash, Dwight, Dwight, that whole that whole thing. They hire Byron Scott because he's Laker family. After Byron Scott was Luke Walton. They hired Luke Walton because he was Laker family. He lasts three seasons. Then they go to Vogel after they miss on Tailu. Then they fire Frank Vogel after he wins a championship. Then they go to Darwin. Like I don't, most of this is nothing, has nothing to do with LeBron. This is just the Lakers not really doing a good job of hiring head coaches and or supporting the head coaches that

they did hire and having just a complete lack of conviction. If you look at every team in the league over the last 10, 20 years, whether it was the Knicks for a long time, the Kings for a long time, the Wizards, the Pistons, look at the teams that cycle through head coaches the most often. And it's not that those head coaches didn't bear some responsibility for their failures, but it was because these were franchises that didn't know how to identify, hire, support, and stand behind the coaches. They either keep picking the wrong ones or they just don't stick with the ones they hired long enough.

That's an organizational problem. That's not a your superstar problem. So this is not to absolve LeBron of anything. It's just to say like the Lakers have been at this and screwing it up for a while. I'm not saying that JJ is going to fail there. There's all kinds of reasons to think that he might succeed. But as we've, I think, discussed too, like we just don't know who's going to work as a head coach, who's going to succeed and who's going to fail no matter what the resume is. experience, no experience.

X's an O's, no X. They're calling him. They're calling him. Who's calling him the next Pat Riley? There has been multiple reporting. Even in the athletic story, they were talking about how some people in the organization believe that he could be the next Pat Riley. And there is stuff names. There's stuff that has been drummed up.

Even, I mean, there's reporting in the athletic. There's just been reporting even around the league. You hear that, right? From the Lakers standpoint, which is crazy. But that's what they're calling him, Howard. And that's, and I don't know, that's the, that's what's messing me up because it feels like the front office, either something's going on with them, which is probably the case, or they just think we're all stupid with these comparisons, right? Like, or they're trying to save face on a hire that is, doesn't have much enthusiasm from their fan base. It's, I just don't know where they are right now, Howard. I don't, like, I don't know where we talked about, you know, Kerm went on his let, now legendary.

rant about in the in the in the in the outcry of the the dan hurley situation and talking about new ownership and things like that and i know me and you have talked about that offline but like where is the front office right now where is like how does that relate to the ownership group with the lakers and what what can they do better at i feel like the the quick answer is they need to look outside of themselves but is it might be a little bit more nuanced than that let me just hit something raja said a minute ago though too though about lebron and his priorities at this because, Rajah, of course, I agree. LeBron is, if he's on the court, he wants to win.

If he's on the court, he wants to win championships until the bitter end, whenever that may come. But he's also smart enough to realize that they don't have what it takes right now. And we'll see where they are in another two, three, four weeks from now or another month or two from now after the offseason transactions are complete. But like, if LeBron really, really wants to win titles still, he should be packing his bags. No, I mean, look how he could. You took the words right out of my mouth. Like either I've overestimated who he is as a competitor and as an all-time great, or they are going to pull off some incredible move that's going to get him the support

that he and AD need to win championships, or if they do that, and he is who I think he is and they're able to execute the move, J.J. Reddick, I would still argue, even if he becomes a great coach, some point. It's probably not the guy for that type of team. The same way Adrian Griffin wasn't the type of guy that I thought was supposed to hop into the Milwaukee Bucksie as the first time head coach. Not that they won't be good, but their timeline wouldn't sync up with the LeBron team that has an opportunity to win a championship. So for all of those reasons, we're living in a world that I just don't frankly understand from the Lakers. You know what I mean? Or I'm with you.

LeBron probably needs to look at that and say, hey, this isn't it. And if we're not, living in either one of those worlds, then honestly, I've, I've overestimated who he is as a competitor. See, Roger Howard, I don't even see it that way. I see it as LeBron sees the writing on the wall. I don't think he, I think he, I think it's not that he doesn't want to win titles, because I believe that to be true. It's wired in his DNA. I'm sure he does want that. But I think he also sees a, bro. But I think also, in this stage of his career, I think he wants to just retire a Los Angeles

Laker and go off into the sunset and whatever that. that might be, right? Like, I think he, I think he sees the writing on the wall. Where else is he going to go? What else is he going to do? Where else is he's caught? It's a marriage right now of convenience between him and the Lakers. I can't accept that.

I can't, yeah. Sorry, I'm sorry, Howard. I didn't mean to interrupt. No, no, go. Logan, I understand where you're coming from. I just, I don't want to believe that because I have that much respect for the dude that I played against, that I've watched for as long as I've watched that I got a chance to work with.

and watch work up close in person. There's too much that goes into that. There's, there's, he eats, sleeps, breathes, trying to win basketball games, and doing whatever he could do. That's not something that you turn off overnight. And so I just, I can't believe that. All right. But Kobe was in that same place late in his career, Ra.

And Kobe didn't want to leave the Lakers because he was literally a Laker for life, right? Like he grew up there. He was never going to leave there. He knew, I think, when he probably signed that last couple of year, and post Achilles and everything else. He didn't have any chance. Of course, Kobe wanted to be all about winning every second of every day. And I think LeBron too.

But everybody reaches a certain point where you realize, like, I'm not in my prime anymore. I'm well past it. And I don't have the support around me. And other priorities take over, like staying in L.A., not uprooting your family again or having to leave your family, right? So maybe it's just that. And also the prestige of being a Laker, too, for him really, I think. I think that really means more to him than he lets on.

Few differences. Few differences in my mind. And you might be right. Like, I mean, that's why we're on here fucking debating it. Like, look, LeBron is playing at a much higher level than Kobe was at that point. For sure. Kobe had sustained a catastrophic career-ending type of injury. LeBron has not.

Kobe was an all-time forever Laker. LeBron is associated with multiple teams that you could call him your own if you chose to as a fan base. Bronny is about to be in the NBA. So he's not, it's not even like, you know, Bryce is right behind him in terms about to go away to college. I think his daughter's name is Surrey. Like, that's not as big of a pickup and move as we're making that up to be. I just think while all of that could be correct, Howard,

and there's a world in which I'm completely wrong and that is it. I don't see him at that point. I mean, that was still a guy that, like, if you add him, he's not going to be the driving force, to win the championship, but he's still at the level that if you paired him with something, he could be the driving force as to why you got over the hump. For sure. And all I'm saying, the parallel with Kobe, it's loose. It's more just a mental concession that you make at a certain stage of your career where you go, you know what?

I would still love to win championships. I know that may not happen here, but I'm not motivated enough to leave yet again, whether it's just uprooting yourself or your family. Like, all everything you said is true. But like, I think it's just more the mental. concession. I had to make that call. Like, it wasn't in the same set of circumstances, but I know, I know exactly the call you make. Like, do I go chasing trying to make the spurs as like the 15th man on their roster and have to pull my kids out of my son starting kindergarten? Do I keep chasing that? Or is it time to just say, yo, this is, the concession for me was like the career is over. Like, it's different but the same. I just, the way he played

last year, I don't see that. There's a, there's a decline. When that happens, there's a precipitous decline in what you're doing, what you see them getting out of who they are because of what they are willing to put in because the priorities have changed. I know that was really convoluted, but that's, I always articulate, like, that's how I knew. I wasn't willing to put in as much, right, on those days because my priorities had shifted. They were about my family. Therefore, I didn't get out what I was supposed to get out. Therefore, if you watched my film, you could say analytically, Jesus Christ, look at that drop off. It was no surprise. It was no surprise. to me because I was the one living that, but I don't see that in LeBron that way.

So that's why it's hard for me to believe. Just one more quick thing, Logan, sorry to drag this out. But like, you know, again, there may be moves coming and maybe the Lakers have already told LeBron, listen, we're hiring JJ, but by the way, here's what we're going to do to reinforce the roster, blah, blah, blah, who knows, I don't know what those discussions might be or if those have happened or what they will pull off in the next few weeks or a couple months. But as things stand now, I think it's pretty clear to all of us. the Lakers are not about to leapfrog Denver, Oklahoma, Minnesota.

You know, if you want to throw Dallas in there, if you want to throw, we don't know what the clippers will look like. There's other teams that are coming that are on the rise. And I don't see the Lakers contending as they stand right now. LeBron could, if he wanted to, Ra, to your point, if all LeBron wanted to do right now was get another ring and was willing to do whatever it took to do that, he can opt out. he can sign for whatever he wants to he can sign for the minimum the guys made hundreds of millions of dollars in his career i know nobody does this anymore jerry peyton and crom alone did it once upon a time to join the lakers my last season covering the lakers where these guys sacrificed a lot of money just to chase a ring and those guys were not in the same position and they're not like lebron

obviously is a completely different player but his legacy is already set too all i'm saying is he has the freedom financially and otherwise to go wherever he wants. He could join any of the other 29 teams. If it's the minimum, if it's a mid-level exception, a bi-annual exception, whatever it is. He could literally go wherever he wanted and every single one of those teams would sign up for it in a heartbeat, and he could just pick the ones that actually have a shot. If he wants to go play with Embed and Maxie, he could do that. So if he want to play for the Knicks, he could do that. The fact that we don't believe that that's where he's going already indicates to me that either he, A,

believes the Lakers actually have a shot, or B, he's made the mental concession that we're talking about. Do we live in a world? I can't accept the mental concession. I can't accept it. I can't, Howard. I hear it. I can't accept it. He's still wired differently.

He's still fucking wired differently, dog. He's a fucking NBA player. So if I can't accept that, then I live in a world where LeBron still believes that the Lakers, either A, LeBron still believes that the Lakers with him as the 1A and AD as the 1B have an opportunity to win a championship next year. He might believe that.

He might believe that. And if there are some back channel conversations and he knows that the cavalry is on the way, and that happens, then at that point, I will change my tune. But as it currently stands,

that's not the case. Right? Like, the other scenario would be like he's too pride, pride is involved in that like I'm not I can't go somewhere and take the mid level like and and this isn't even a negative on him he might be you know I've I've I've never really even had a buddy to pick their brain that was that level of player where I'd have to say to them hey man what do you what do

you feel like like deep down that does to your legacy if you go take the mid level or you don't take max to win championships like he might be telling you like I you know that I hadn't contemplated But maybe it's like, look, yeah, I want to win more championships, but I can't see myself doing that at the mid-level. Like, that's just not what I want my legacy to represent. And at that point, I could dig it. Like, you know, like I hear you, I guess. I'm not saying he should.

I'm just saying he could. You're for sure, for sure. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and so the question that I do want to get to you, Raja, is how does this type of hire play in the locker room, which is the big question, because you're coming in, as JJ read it, no matter what is actually,

you know, perception is sometimes reality, and I think it is in this case, right? You come into the locker room. You're definitely a cahoots with our star player, right? You're definitely, this is coming as a time where you're supposed to build trust with the rest of the guys, right? It's one thing to have your star player

and people fall in line, but this is a different case in my mind. And whenever a first year coach has to come in and McGill trust in the locker room and do all these things, It would seem that his relationship, LeBron, would be a hindrance to that. What do you think it would,

it's going to be like the dynamics in that locker room in this year with LeBron as a former podcast host with JJ? Yeah, it's going to be fascinating, Logan. The hardest thing I always felt watching players not that far removed from the game hop back into coaching with no coaching experience was drawing a line between, the player that you used to be and the coaching hat that you wear now and trying to make sure that those lines aren't crossed in a way that would cost you some sort of command or authority

within the locker room. Right. So like the fact that he's got the type of relationship he has with LeBron makes that even more difficult. So, you know, if we're living in a world, especially where LeBron is saying, hey, I got two more years, whatever this looks like, I'm secure in who I am, I'm going to write off into the sunset. Now, JJ, you take this team over and restore it. You don't want those younger guys in the locker room feeling like JJ and LeBron were buddy, buddy to the point where they've lost respect for JJ, not the message, but just the person because he was too close to the star.

Is there a chance that's already happened, though? Is there a chance that a player could see that already happening? Well, there is a chance, but I don't, I think, I think that. JJ can put that to bed if he comes in and makes sure that he has a conversation with LeBron off to the side. Hey, LeBron, look, yeah, we've done the podcast. Everybody knows we're buddies. But look, for the first month, I'm drawing a very clear line in the sand. Wink, wink, I need you to be with me on this.

And I need your support in trying to let everybody understand just how clear of a line that I'm drawing here. There are going to be times, you know, where that might make you uncomfortable being my friend. but just trust me, we're still cool. This is what I have to do. But I think that has to be a very clear conversation, and LeBron has to support him in trying to take that team over. I'll never forget this, and it didn't work out. Jerry Sloan resigned.

Tyrone Corbyn gets the job, and he calls me into his office. I mean, he calls me into his hotel room in Phoenix, I think it is. And he's telling me how important a vet like myself is going to be to his transition and how, you know, I have to try to help him and be the voice. voice in the locker room and try to have some of his thoughts and desires kind of, you know, disseminate through the locker room through me, right? Like, let me be a conduit to the team. And I remember saying to him, I said, coach, I don't think it's going to work like that. I want to give you space as you take this over for your voice to be heard. I don't think it's

healthy if my voice is the one that's heard because that blurs the line. Like, you have to take control of this. I literally told him that. Now, he and I wound up getting like, You know, that didn't work out. That's written in the books. Well, documented on real ones. Yeah, but the point is, like, I thought that that was just a very, very important, you know, moment in time, two, three weeks a month for him to really securely grab a hold of the reins and not have any confusion as to whose ship that was to run.

JJ has a few things working for him. I don't know what type of coach he'll be. Like, I wish him the best. We always look for this, like, when we were in the front office, in terms of, you of coaching candidates or former players that could flip to the front office. Can you get in front of a crowd and carry a room? When you speak, do you speak with confidence? Can you command the troops?

You take for granted that some guys that play on teams for our entire career could get up and talk to a team about what the process of filling out insurance cards would be. Hey, guys, we need your insurance things done. We've asked you guys four times. you know, we still have four people who haven't filled it out. The deadline for this is Tuesday. If we can't get this done as a team, here are the ramifications for that. We need to make sure that everyone is on the set.

Like simple and innocuous is that. Some people can't do it. And so JJ can, right? And so if you can get in front of a room and command them and express to them, you know, the vision, I think you're okay. Where people bail shit and even LeBron would bail on you is all of that is well good until you get in the line of fire and the bullets start flying

and you don't have answers. Right? And so that's the only time, you know, that a guy who's really buttoned up in the other ways, you could tell that he either can or can't do the job. Like, when it gets hot, is he cool? Can he handle it? How much time does he have to prove that? How many months?

Well, it depends on the level of team. Like, for LeBron, you don't have long. LeBron's making decisions on that. I don't know, in the first couple months of a season. Like, he was out on David Blatt. The first couple months of a season, quickly. He's like, now, I don't like this. This isn't.

And I've talked about that. Like, we had to convince him, hey, man, like, can you guys just give it a better chance so that we as a front office can really see that? But, like, he's more gifted in that way. He was like, no, I already know. I mean, he acquiesced. He did what we asked him to do. But, like, they had already determined that Blatt wasn't a guy.

And that's when you will know whether JJ, even if he's LeBron's guy, if he gets in there and he cannot handle that situation over and over again, you might be, you might get a couple to show us. But if that's a repeat, like a repetitive thing and it's a recurrent theme, like they'll be out on you quickly. Rasha, I got, I got one quick like detail question about this whole thing that I was, I wanted to run by you. I've been thinking about this last couple days. This is this, there's this idea that, um, J.J. is, I got, I got one. already behind the eight ball because there was this big public display of them pivoting to Dan Hurley and then not getting Dan Hurley and oh, JJ's a second choice. Does that matter in a locker room? Like, does it matter to anybody in that locker room that whatever the Dan Hurley thing was?

It was all very strange. We can all acknowledge. It was very strange. Does it matter to anybody in the locker room that JJ, forget the experience versus non-experience, everything else? Just the mere fact that he was in theory not the first choice. Does dual players even care? Yeah, I don't think that players, I don't think the players care, Howard. I think, you know, we would have, you know, you can acknowledge that. You saw it play out. So it's a thing. But what players care about is winning games and making sure they maximize who they are

so that they can maximize the dollars at the end of their career. And if you can help them get closer to that and they trust that you can do that, they don't give a shit if you were the first choice or the ninth choice. Yeah. So do you know what I mean? mean like the answers will sort themselves out once he gets in there that that's and that's i mean that's basically when i've been asked this question on radio the last couple of days that's been my response uh so i just wanted to verify with you from the players standpoint like to me it's basically like if you

have credibility on day one if you get buy in if your players believe in what you're you're you're selling them it doesn't matter nothing else matters the experience part of it they may have doubts on day one but if they buy what you're selling that falls away they may have doubts about your personality or they may not have liked you when they played against you and jj's case because it was so recent but all of that falls away if they believe in what you're doing and the results are there and so to me yeah like the dan hurley thing all the other stuff all of it falls away if jj just does the job in a way that convinces his locker room right it's 100% it's a result i mean at the end of the day the word that sticks with me as results if you're getting those results

like like everyone is okay and here's the here's the other thing that i think's really interesting in this maybe it's just me. The fact that JJ was known to be a bit of a, I don't know, you could call him a villain at times or an Aho, whatever that was. I think that's actually a positive for him going into that seat. Like,

I think it's a positive for him going into that seat because you're not going to have guys that necessarily organically want to be buddy-buddy with you. Like, you do have a line. Like, listen, man, I mean, look, I'm here to do a job. You know what I mean? Like I got a little bit of cockiness to me. I can be an A-hole at times.

Stay in your lane. I'll stay in mind. And I'm going to produce these results. And I think if he gets off to that kind of start, the coach player friendships and stuff like that can be on the back burner. And those come as guys start to trust you a little bit more and start to understand who you are. But off the bat, I think that helps him. We'll see what happens.

I don't know. I'm kind of out on this move. I feel like how we did when the, I haven't been out on this move like this quickly since last year, Roger, when we were like instantly out on the Jordan pool, Chris Ball trade, we're just out.

We're just like, this is stupid. I just, I don't know where this goes. Howard, if this goes bad, what is, what is,

what does this say about the Lakers? If it goes back quickly, what does it say about the Lakers and how do they recover from this? Because they still will have years left of LeBron's, uh, deal and AD's obviously signed. obviously this has a huge chance of going bad. What happens if it does?

Man. I mean, listen, I'm going to say this because I will look at everything the Lakers do through this prism. Their biggest problem right now is that they have expectations that far exceed what they're actually capable of based on the personnel they have. Meaning, the roster is just not good enough. It wasn't good enough last year. It wasn't good enough the year before. They've been too slow to course correct when there have been obvious issues. They don't have a lot of levers to pull.

They have more levers to pull now, right? A lot of those picks that they were out, they now have a lot of picks back again because time marches on. They've got future picks. Are they willing to deal them? They're going to be straddling the same issues that they've been straddling this whole time during the LeBron era. Are they all in on the present?

And do they think they can still contend by sacrificing some future capital for current upgrades or not? I will say over and over and over again. It's not that the coach doesn't matter. It's not that this whole JJ Redick thing doesn't matter. But to me, it is way, way, way less important than whether or not they can upgrade the roster. Talent wins, period. You can overcome a brand new coach, a rookie coach.

You can overcome all kinds of things. But you can't if you don't have the talent. They don't have the talent. They're not good enough. J.J. Reddick is the least of their concerns. The coach is the least of their concerns. I am much more curious to see what they do for the roster. If all of that fails and they just go into next season,

with the same basic group, then they're going to, quote, unquote, fail based on a standard of contention. They're not going to contend. And where the consequences for that fall, I don't know, because it seems to me that the front office is Teflon and is never held to account for the lack of upgrades or being slow to move or cycling through coaches. So I don't know. I don't know where this goes if they quote unquote fail. I just know that this is still going to be about the roster, ultimately. Let's quickly talk about a actual contender. The Oklahoma City Thunder made a move to trade Josh Giddy for Alex Caruso, straight up. We were asking, I'm just this post to Roger.

He had some thoughts pre-pod, but I want to bring him up to. the fold here. Is this the move that we've all been asking for where we need the veteran trade to push the button? Is this the one that we're thinking about? Alice Cruz, I think is 30 years old. They pivoted really quickly from Josh Giddy after one postseason to get older.

What do you think of this move? Man. And also Oklahoma City has a history of like kind of pivoting too soon. And I'm not even talking about James Harden. I'm talking about, like, you know, trading Jeff Green for for Kendrick Perkins, right? Just stuff like that. They do do do this type of stuff. And, you know, as good as they are, they do have shit that bites him the ass in the back end.

I like Alex Caruso. I think Alex Caruso is a winning NBA player. By that, I mean, you could put him in a lot of situations in the league, and he will help your team be a better version of itself. He represents that. You can't say that for everybody. You can't say that for better, you know, quote-unquote, like more skilled players. and Alex Caruso. I believe him to be that.

I don't know that he's the piece that represents getting over the hump for the OKC Thunder, though. I like Josh Giddy. Like in fairness, I don't know all that went down with some of the distractions that came with Josh Giddy last year. I don't know how any of that played out behind closed doors with their brass or the locker room. So there's more to it than just what I'm going to speak to. but like in terms of how he fit playing style the nucleus, how they were growing together as a core, I don't, I don't love it.

What do you think, Howard? What does this say about where Oklahoma City is at this point? I mean, look, they were one of the best teams in the league already. They were a top four defense already. Caruso is an incredible defender. all defensive team caliber player who also can shoot threes and stretch the defense at a much better rate and efficiency than Josh Giddy. Giddy has just just a different skill set.

So I mean, I'm taking this at face value. Like Sam Presley had a pretty detailed statement in their press release to announce the deal. And it was basically like we moved Giddy to the bench. And, you know, his lack of shooting is, you know, was clearly an issue for them. And it seems to me that what Presti was implying with some of the parts of his statement was that Giddy wasn't exactly pleased with it. And so maybe Giddy wanted to move on. And, you know, I don't want to look at this through. It was like, it's not upgrade, downgrade, whatever, because Josh Giddy's young and can still evolve and become a really good player.

And again, I think Presby's statement said, like, hey, he could be an all-star someday. But does Caruso help them more right now? Is he a better fit right now? Yeah, I think he is. And I think this is a team like, what does this say about the Thunder? Logan? You're asking like, they're a really young team that is good enough now to contend immediately, but maybe they need to expedite the process by throwing in a few winning vets.

And Caruso fits that. So I think it's pretty straightforward. All right. Now the time we've all been waiting for. Kigdy Kermit of the motherfucking cut once more. It is time for our annual worst takes episode. Let's buckle up. I'm already going to say it now.

I think last year we were at a peak. You're getting soft right now. You're getting soft. Yeah. Hey, man, maybe I didn't dig through the crates enough. I got, I think, four clips for us today. I don't think they're too bad. You came into pre-pod saying you had five.

Did you just, did you get, what the hell? We got a little scared? One of them wasn't worth it. You know, it wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth it. So we'll start with Roger's finals prediction. Let me play that back for you guys. guys.

Yeah, I'm going to take Milwaukee. I mean, Milwaukee boss. I'm going to take Milwaukee. I'm not picking against Damon and

Janice, but I will take the sons in the West. I'll take the sons to come out of the West. Homer pick. Yeah, yeah. Thoughts.

Thoughts. Explain yourself. Explain yourself. Look, it clearly didn't work out. You know, I sometimes get on here and I get infatuated

with all the offense that is, that is book, um, KD and Bradley Beal, but my true heart, as you guys know, is on the defensive end of the floor, and I just was wrong. I should have factored that in. You want against your heart.

I did. I did. There are times where you have to make a business decision. I like Arizona. I like to be welcomed if I go back to Arizona. And there are times where I might be conflicted when I hop on this pod. And that could have been one. It's just funny that you say you want to be welcome to Arizona, which you don't never go back.

I said if I go back, if I go back. Okay. All right. All right. Yeah, I was drinking Kool-Aid. Look, I mean, I like Kool-Aid. I was raised on Kool-Aid. I was drinking it.

How Spike was your coffee that morning, sir? I might have had one too many that morning. We don't, you're not the only one drinking Kool-A. Let's hear Logan's finals prediction. Lakers bucks. And I got the Bucs and six. I really like what the Lakers are doing. I love what they were doing.

going into the last stretch of last season when they made all the roster moves. And they got better. Like, I really love what they did in the offseason. Yo, it's so disrespectful how he stops it, though. I think that's the most disrespectful one, right? Like, what moves are they made Kerm, Laker fan? Listen, man, I'm not mad at my pick. Consider it what happened last year.

I was standing on it, okay? They had a really good run. It was tantalizing. It was all the things. It was great. and, you know, if Vando just would have stayed healthy, Kerr. Hey, in your defense, we are the end-season tournament champs. Like, I feel like we were a really good team.

18 and a half banners, right? 18 and a half banners, right? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You know, at least 18 and a 4th. At least 18 and a 4th or 17 and 4th. 17 and 4th. You know what I'm saying? At least.

But, you know, it's not the worst of the takes. Did you get yourself? Did you get yourself in this? Fuck no. No. No. Why would I do that? I'm always right.

Come on now. We'll go Logan again and we'll wrap it with Howard. We'll let you wait on Howard. So let's play this one. But I am all in on the Kings. What did you mean by that? Yeah, talk to us, Logan. I don't know.

I can breathe now knowing I'm a longer. Hey, when was this? When was this? I don't know. You told me. I don't even know what the context was. You just all lit on the Kings, man. It was about them being a solid playoff team.

I think the title episode was in the description of something about the Kings being really ready for the playoffs. I can't tell you when this was screened. That is all in. To take a Loganism as a staff, record label, and an MFing crew, all in. That was tough. I don't even know the context of that. Sorry. Maybe you know what it was?

maybe I was pulling a pulling a raja you know I go to sack a lot you know I got peeps at sack maybe I just wanted to you know be good I didn't want to be on the no-fly zone maybe that's what it was you know I got I got the I got the King's cowbell for my last trip there wow wow wow hey in fairness like that means that we're going to have a lot of Howard pro Kings takes next year okay cool good to know Logan is if this was if this was coming off of like last like the problem with a lot of these

stakes is they're coming off of the the the the the the the playoff runs last year right like the as a team won't reveal when this will fuck when this came we won't even reveal fuck also by the way that was like of all the clip that was like six words Logan he did you he did you really did you

six words zero we don't know what came before we don't know what came after we don't know when all in the kings that's all I know the kings to fuck this up and they didn't plead it play any it right we know the next word was concession food. You know how,

I mean, the golden one concession food is pretty good. I'm not going to lie. It's pretty good. It's a better arena in Northern California than chasing her.

I'll tell you that. I'll say that on record. Hey, hey. We're here. Also, I find it very disrespectful that I'm the only one that gets two worst takes. It's bullshit.

That is bullshit. I had a full, I had a full exhale about five minutes ago when he said that. Yeah, man. Your shit was light. That shit was light.

This is the last one, though. This one's a fun one. Let's go. Welcome. This is like your real initiation officially. Like, you know, it's been a good trial run in your car. We got to. Let's go. Let's go. Let's do it. Let's do it.

Do you think the CP3 experiment is going to work? I do. I actually do. I thought so. Bullshit. You believe that CP3. was going to work. Here's a thing, though. Before I get Howard's explanation, just want to say this.

Howard gives the benefit of the doubt to every fucking thing that is big time, especially when it comes to the Warriors. You didn't even get his Draymond Green takes. You didn't even put those in. You didn't even get those. Me and me and Roger were locked in.

Good job, teammate. This motherfucker, Howard was drinking the Kool-Aid. Explain yourself. How am I wrong about Chris Paul working out other than he got hurt? What went wrong? Did anything go really wrong? They didn't make the playoffs.

You should have did it, honestly. Is that on Chris Ball? Is Chris Ball? Is Chris Ball's both the Warriors didn't make the playoffs? According to Twitter, yes. Well, yeah, here's why you're wrong. Because that is who he is, right? And part of the reason, like, he couldn't be trusted in certain situations

because he falls apart. So they should have kept Jordan Pool? You're saying they should have kept Jordan Pool? No, that wasn't what we said. I am. I am. I am. I am.

Because Jordan Pool, in that's, situation was not the Jordan pool that you saw in Washington. Like he's not ready for that. I was wrong on that. He's not ready for that. But in the role that he was kind of in there, even though like, you know, he got his ass whooped and shit like that, I do think Jordan pool was a

was a better fit there than Chris Paul. Okay, but Chris, just to be clear. Right, fuck him up. Now you're coming with the Kendring. I'm with that. When Chris Paul was, when Chris Paul played with the Warriors, like he did fit fine next to Steph when they were playing outside. He did fit well

In fact, he was the one who brought the bench crew alive. No, no, no, we ain't going to do that. No, no, no, we ain't going to do that. Oh, we don't want to talk about the actual results. No, no, we're going to do that. Okay. Also, the thing is, though, Howard. Do we need to go pull up his plus minus stats?

Do you have to get all fucking analytics on you? Oh, oh, oh, do I need to pull out the plus minus stats on your ass? Don't make me do it. I just think, okay, fair, but look, here, we, the, the, the Golden State Warrior, the reason why I was out and the reason why I think ultimately it was a poor take was in part because he was injured. What they needed was like younger pieces that could help them, right? Like part of what I was calling for was give me a little bit of a youth movement to infuse with some of that older talent. And at the end of the day, the fact that he was injured, I think supports the argument that he wasn't a great fit there.

But I hear what you're saying, Howard, on the floor. You just can't stay on the fucking floor. This is what I think about with the warriors and Chris Paul. He was, you know, I know more than anyone on this panel. I've seen the strides and the things that he did in the locker room. It was a much happier locker room and a much more engaged locker room, a much more together locker room with Chris Paul in that locker room. The reason why the Chris Paul experiment was always doomed to fail is what Roger said, right?

Like, I didn't have a problem with them trading Jordan Pool. I said that on record when it happened. I said, yo, if you don't feel like it could, they, they could. They can coexist with Jordan Paul in the locker room to trade him. But don't trade him for someone that's older than in basketball years than Rajabelle and Howard Beck combined. Don't do that. Don't do that.

Unnecessary strays, dog. Like really unnecessary strays, bro. I mean, you were sliding and I was with you. Whop, wot, wop, wop, wop, wop, l' fuck a bum. Oh shit. Okay. All right. It took 50 minutes

for we're off the rails. Congratulations. You've fucked up this whole podcast, Kirk. Good job. You couldn't even get us five? You couldn't get us five?

There's not another one there? You should take that as a compliment. I felt like y'all did a great job this season of not going too off the deep end. Like last year, there was like a Ben Simmons take. It was a Ben Simmons take. It was you.

It was definitely you loved it. Yeah. And I also had a James Hard, MVP one last year, which was nuts off of like a four-game stretch in November. Remember that? Remember that? What do the people like more?

Do they like us more? Like, what? Did they like Logan going all in on James Hardin for MVP? Or do they like the more docile version where we're, like, I'd be interested to know. Like, what do they like? I don't think there's a James Hardin hive. So I think I'm fuck.

I think I fuck out. I think there's a, I think what Ross say is like, do we need to be more hot takey? Should we go over the top? Do they like that? I mean, the Lakers need to blow it up and trade. everyone right now get what you can get like that shit

the reasonable ones the reasonable the reasonable the measured ones whack wah wah back fuck a buck oh man all right all right

50 minutes to get off the rolls thank you Kiggity Kerm out of the motherfucking cut really appreciate you buddy job Kerrm you know before we get to the next segment he's just reminded me by looking me in the eye real ones mail back at chemail.com

Real On Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmailbag at gmail.com. This is news to everyone, but next week we're only going to have one show, and it's a Real One's Mailbag episode with no Friday show, you know, with the draft coming up. Which is a very great relief for Roger Bell. So, and myself, because I don't know. I don't know who's watched more colleges this year, you think?

Maybe you, but like not by that much. I don't think by that much. Not by much. I watched a little bit, yeah, but not much at all. Yeah. So shout out to the powers of being the producers at the ringer NBA.

But anyway, let's get to a little segment we'd like to go at Ruin of the week. I don't think anyone's taking my Rural One of the week. So I'm going to go first still. I'm going to go with Kendrick Lamar

if you didn't. I already know. If I didn't foreshadow it enough, this brought the West Coast back together. That's one. It was a great display on June 10th. Shout out to, to die.

Watt, Watt, Watt, got fucking muh. All right, anyways. Howard, who is your ruin of the week?

I was not prepared for this because no matter how many times I've done the Thursday slash Friday show on this podcast, I keep forgetting. You need to actually tell me, text me it. Just like you have to text the same Riverside link to Raja Bell. Every day.

The same link. Is it the same link? The link that's never changed. Raja. Every time, it's the it's the riverside link that we've always used. It's never the different. You can just cut and paste it. into like a notes file. Wait, what we do it every time, Roger?

Wait, this is the way. Hold up, hold up. Hold on, no, no, no, go ahead. This is his continuity. I'm fucking sorry. This could his hit continuity right here. This is my continuity. Continuity.

That's the same fucking link. It's the same fucking leak every time. So no one was going to say to me. It's the same. I mean, it's in the thread of text. But like in fairness, in fairness, in fairness, can one not see this? It says real ones. Riverside every time. Jesus Christ, bro. But like, look, when you get a Zoom link, it changes every time.

You need a new Zoom link. So I just assumed when we went over to Riverside that this was a new Riverside group, like every time we have a pod, it's a new Riverside meeting. I didn't realize that it was the same meeting link over and over again. Like, I never hit the old one. So that's why I keep requesting a new one. Keep doing it. Just keep doing it. It's fine. I've just ruined it now. Because one of you assholes could have said, Hey, it's the same fucking link. Just like one of us assholes could have corrected Logan's pronunciation. Honestly, one thing, I spared you, Logan, because when I was combing through the files, I did find an old use of continuity where you said continuity. And I was like, should I bring it?

Did you have it? No. No, I did not. You get soft. Oh, my God. I'll let them live. I let them live. You don't know how many times.

I have fucking. steamed and all the real ones right now because this is this is more this is more niche you know how much shit I got in my mentions and my fucking DM request and my fucking Instagram about hey yeah I do that

Louis was saying continuing you all this I do anyway I cannot believe that it's the same I'm blown away like I'm blown away that it's the same link I really did not know are you are you are you are you Denzo Washington at the end of training day right now because I know I was last week are you are you

Motherfuckers. That's you? Yeah. Yeah. Shoot. Also, Howard. Yeah. Also, Howard, I forget.

It's your turn. Who's your real one in the week, sir? You ain't spared. The real ones of the week are actually all of you guys because we just finished our first season with me on this podcast. And it's been a goddamn blast. We haven't finished it yet. But thank you, Howard. We haven't finished it yet.

It's not done. It's not done yet. I'm just saying, the finals are over. My first season with the Ringer and this show. is done. We've completed that. You guys are the real ones. Matt Dollinger, my editor is the real one for putting up with all my bullshit during the season. Everybody

that's been phenomenal. How's that for a nice hokey hallmarky take there? Way to pull it out of the hat, brother. Way to pull it out of the hat. All right. Mr. Fuck off. Who's your... I really cannot believe. Who is your real one? Really? I believe that. You guys for continue... For the

for continuity to send me that link. I don't. Keep asking for it anyway, Rob. No, I know. I can't even stop now. It's on some real talk, no pun intended, the real one will be the staff here at the SLS, Bahamas. I told this story before we.

Listen, man, we got stuck on an elevator last night with 17 people for about, you know, 30 to 45 minutes. The 17 people consisted of like a few young ladies that were on their high school trip. We're having like real, you know, panic situations in this elevator. It was really hot. Although it took the staff longer than people would have wanted. They got us all out safely. And, you know, everybody was able to go back to their respective rooms and stuff like that. And it wasn't like hours long wait.

And this is a huge place with a lot of stuff going on. So like real ones for getting us out of that damn elevator. Hey, Roger, let me hold $20, bro. Fantastic. That's the ass of the shit. Let me hold $20, my fucking. That's why the lighting is so great. That's why the blue is great.

That's why you're just chilling, dude. That is a beautiful blue. I want to paint my office that cold. It's an ocean blue. It's the ocean. Okay, all right, for sure. Hope everybody got free drinks when they got out of that elevator. You know what?

People just scattered, man. There was a lot of, there was a lot of emotion coming out of that elevator. People just spilled out. I just want everybody to know that is the, that is the, that is the, that is the, the, the, the, the unpaid walled version of the story. We got the real version, and Rajah had it like a fucking chap. Like a fucking chap. Like a fucking champ. Thanks, man.

Thanks, man. Somebody had to take control of that situation. You know what I mean? Hey, you were out here surviving and thriving. All right. Anyways, it took us 50 minutes, but we officially got off the rails. I don't know what the hell is next. But Real ones mailbag at gmail.com.

Rear ones mailbag at gmail.com. We will see you on Monday. I believe Beck is going to be there. He better be Mr. Fuckoff himself. Raja should be there. Big shout out to our guy, Eduardo, who out here holding it down. for the producing on the pod. Ah, all the shits.

Love you guys. It's been a continuous journey, you know? We're loving it. We're loving it every single time. You know, there's a lot of continuity. Talk to you guys on Monday. Ah, all this day. Oh, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, oh.

Low fucking book. Bye. Let's be 21 years and older, 18 years and older in D.C. And President Select States, Fandle is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit Fanduil.com backslash RG in Colorado, D.C., Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 533342 in Arizona.

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