The Ringer NBA Show - The Lakers’ Referee Problem, Plus Marcus Thompson on the Present and Future of the Golden State Warriors | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

Logan and Raja open the episode with a discussion of the impact of the referee's missed called at the end of regulation of Lakers-Celtics (02:00). Later, Logan is joined by The Athletic’s Marcus Thompson to discuss the Golden State Warriors, the underrated value of Bob Myers, his impending contract talks, and the ripple effect that his leaving would create (33:00). Then, Logan asks Marcus whether a handful of Warriors are staying or leaving. Host: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Marcus Thompson Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady *The Ringer NBA squad is coming to Salt Lake City for NBA All-Star Weekend! Get your tickets here!* Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? This is Logan Murdoch from Real On I have some big news to share. On Saturday, February 18th, the Ringer NBA show will be hitting the road for All-Star weekend for a live show in Salt Lake City. You heard that right. We are taping the pod in front of a live audience in Salt Lake next month and we want you to join us. Pull up on us at the stateroom in the heart of downtown Salt Lake. You can grab your tickets now at thestateroom.com. That's the stateroom.com. Doors open at 9 o'clock. Show is at 10. It's going to be a 21 and up event. come hang with the gang and chat midseason updates draft preview and even have a Q&A with us space is limited so grab your tickets while they last at the stateroom.com or click the link in the description of this show hope to see y'all in there popping Logan burdock here roger bell there

real ones in the house um roger i didn't know how i was going to start this but i'm ready to talk about officiating um you i came to this in the prepod um meeting and I told you the rundown. We got a, it's us talking about officiating. We got Marks Thompson and me talking about warriors in a second. But when I came to you to talk about officiating, you were like, and referencing the Lakers Celtics, which a game that I was at, and which was a big story throughout the NBA over the weekend.

And I come to you like, yo, we're going to talk about this, officiating. This might be up in your wheelhouse. And what was your response to this, Roger Bell? What did you want to, what did you tell me verbatim? Be a term. Verbatim? Yes. Yes.

Damn it. I don't. I mean, it was just a couple seconds ago, but I'd like to think I said something like, and I remember which one of my old head teammates used to say this. If you cry, what's the baby going to do? That's not what you said,

but that was a bar. It was, and that was the crux guess of what I was saying. It was kind of like, you'll come on with that, like nobody cares what I said. You said, don't nobody want to hear that bullshit.

It was a miscar. and we move on. It was verbatim of what you said, which I was surprised over. We are going to get into talking about it, but I was very surprised that you of all people were like, someone who has brought officiating up in this very podcast, unpropted,

about how this is some bullshit in the past. You have unprofitedly done this. And now that's the story of the league, you don't want to talk about it. No, it's, listen, it can be the story of the league for different reasons. I hate refs. I hate them at every level.

I tell them that. I tell them in high school games. I hate y'all. My sister was a ref. I hate her. You know what I mean? I just don't like refs. I've never liked them.

I've, you know, in their capacity as refs. I enjoy all of them as human beings, for the most part. I won't say all. But when the stripes come off or when they're not refing the game,

I'm fine with them, bro. But I never really, you know, got down with refs. I think they go on, a lot of them go on power trips. But as far as missed calls go, like I'm not here to cry about no missed calls.

I'll cry about general refereeing attitudes, belief that they are part of the show when they are not wearing the Napoleonic complex on their sleeve amongst a bunch of seven foot men and you out there with a whistle in your mouth trying to take it out on people that didn't have nothing to do with your jeans. We can get into all of that. If you want me in my bag, now I'm in it. But in terms of a miss fucking call, if you cry, what's the baby going to do? Roger, I'm trying to get to what actually happened of the course of the game. We're going to talk Lakers Celtics really quickly,

much to Roger's chagrin. I was at the game, and I got to say, I'm not sure how much you watched this game and how much of, I know you saw the reaction of it, but it was among one of the most poorly official, games that I've seen in a while just in terms of late calls and

things like that. And we're going to get into all those things. But the call of the night, Raja, was, and this is what I want to get your take on. The call of the night was when LeBron goes to the cup,

he's been playing his ass off all night, goes to the cup with a few seconds left, gets blatantly tapped on his shooting arm by Jason Tatum. And no call, boggle that about. I was

seated on the other side of the court in the media section. So we really didn't get to see the play in real time. And Boston is one of those places. I can't wait to talk to you about Boston in general. But Boston is one of those places that at its old school where they don't show the replay of the opposing thing

or anything that will not help them. And not only do they not show the replay of something that will not help them. As soon as LeBron went to the ground on like all fours, bro, they had the camera at, at the top right on him. It's like zooming in on him on the Jumbotron. It was like professional wrestling. Boston is one of the best environments in the league. It was one of my, it was my second time ever in Boston, but it was, it's great.

Besides the point in this regard right now, though, when when that happened, um, LeBron was as animated as I'd ever seen. what was your reaction throughout that whole sequence and those few calls? Was it just like, oh shit, it was just a blown call? Because I feel like the reason why I bring it up is because this was more than this was more about the Lakers season, in my opinion,

than that call specifically. That's why LeBron was so messed up. That's why everyone said that the Lakers got cheated. That was all those things. I think it was bigger than that one specific play. And that's what I want to get into. What were your thoughts when you saw that play? honestly, my initial reaction was like, so what?

You know, like calls get missed all the time. But as LeBron continued to like demonstrate his just complete frustration and and utter disbelief that that had happened, in the way that he did, it did sink in a little bit more that this is less about that particular call as egregious a miss as it was. It was terrible. This is terrible. Just a terrible miss. And I know, like, Eric Lewis, I say I'm not really friends with Reds. Like, Eric Lewis was on that, he was the one that they, that, that, uh, Pat Bevereign over and showed the camera to.

Like, he's a family friend of mine. So, like, I know, I know Eric Lewis. Like, but, but, um, it was an egregious miss, but it did seem to speak, like, to bigger picture with the Lakers and just that was the straw that broke the Campbell's back in terms of frustration in regards to what has been. a pretty tumultuous season for them. So that sunk in, though, but my initial reaction was like, I mean, you see plays like that at the end of games all the time, and refs, you know, swallow whistles. Like now, it ain't LeBron all the time.

And so, you know, LeBron usually gets the benefit of the doubt. But then as I watched LeBron, because you rarely see him go that far with his, he was jumping around. No, yeah, he was like, he was, he had to, like, I had never, because again, I'm on the other side. of the court. And I can't, I don't exactly see why he is the way he is. But he, I thought he was hurt, Ross. Yes. I thought he was hurt on the other side of the court from my band. I was like, is Bron, okay? He looked like somebody who got the phone call that something tragic had just

happened in their life. Like he was, it was, it was hurting him in a way that, you know, again, I've seen LeBron go to the basket at end of games. And sometimes once in a while, he does not get that call. Never has he had that kind of visceral reaction to it. So, yeah, As you watched it, you were like, yeah, this shit is, while I'm sure he wanted to beat the Celtics on national TV in that moment, this is bigger picture than it. It was, I think it was like, and I know you watched the game, it was an indictment on, in my opinion, the reaction to that call was an indictment of not only that game, but the Lakers season as a whole, right? Because I've seen the Lakers a couple of times in person this year. This was one of those games that they really wanted. you know one of those games you really want but you're not playing well but you're playing just enough to get the win on the road like it's a really great road performance that you need when you're a team like that they were having one of those those games lebron's carrying them both of that game dude like lebron i still can't believe that he's 20 years in because he's just he's carrying them he's hitting the timely threes um you know uh davis was getting some buckets um pat bev played one of the best games i've ever seen pat blayette blayette he's playing one of the best games i've ever seen pat blay

that play. Like, dog, when he got the tip dunk in person, I was, it was, I was incredible,

man. It was an incredible game in general. But there was one of those games where LeBron was carrying them. And a lot of things that were going wrong, he was so good that they were overcoming. He was overcoming that. Like,

for instance, one of the worst games I've ever seen Russell Westbrook play. I know that you love Russell Westbrook. I know that he is a friend of the pot and all that things. but he played terribly down the stretch of that game. It didn't matter because LeBron was that good. And that was just an indictment on how bad the rest of the team has been this season and LeBron carrying them and the fresh traces that come from that,

that's what I took out of it. We're like, yo, this is a game on national TV against our Biddle rivals. And on ABC, we got a chance to write the ship on our season. And then this happens because I firmly believe this happened. on a game like it. You know, one of an NBA TV specials, whereas 5.30 on a Sunday, and this thing happens,

it's not a storyline. But because of the way that it happened, the way it did, that's why we're talking about it this way. So, but I guess my question is, under normal pretext, because you've been on the bad end

of a lot of calls, on a normal pretext, and this is a regular day, without the stakes, without the rivalry, what is the general reaction of this game? I mean, the refs the refs suck. That's, you know, that's what you're saying in the locker room.

No, I mean, I'm not, I'm not bashing the refs, but you're asking me what the reaction would be in the locker room. That's, that's what it would generally be in one way, shape, or form. It would be revolving around the refs and them not being very good and, and, you know, MF and the refs. That's, that's what, that's what the conversation would be. And you typically stew on that for, for a while, like you might stew on that. But, but, but then you got to move, then you're moving on. It doesn't take. legs and a life of its own the way this particular blown call has. And a big part of the reaction to this is the ref's response to it.

And I really want to get your take on this part of it because we have gotten so replayed out. We have gotten so like accountability driven, which is really good for the game. I think it's good for the game. But like if I'm a, I've never been a basketball NBA player. I can't even speak to that. But my reaction, if I'm on a team or something, if, like, my reaction, if I see the last two-minute report and right out after the game,

the reps tweet out that they made a mistake, I'm feeling like, man, I don't want to hear that bullshit. Just get the call right. Like, where are we at right now in terms of replaying and how we are holding, and I'm doing this in air quotes, accountability for these reps and where we are as a league? Are we in a better place than we've been in a while? No.

Where are we? I don't know that you're in a better place. I mean, they put out that the report, I guess to a degree, that that in and of itself, by definition, would be slightly holding them slightly more accountable from a time when they didn't even put out a report acknowledging that they might have missed a call, right? But it doesn't necessarily help anyone. I do you know I I don't have the answer you know transparency is usually you know the best way to go about that like you know how a refs graded like what what is there I mean we have every stat to comb through an NBA player and they're effective in efficiency and value to a team and what percentage of the shots do they make versus what they miss and turnovers to assist ratios and anything that you could use. to quantify the quality of a player.

And there's just no data to do that with referees. You know, I don't know. Maybe the way they're graded and and, but I don't have an answer. I'm not sitting here telling you that, hey, man, I've come up with this, this great, great way to hold refs accountable. I would just say as it relates to refs and, and my feelings towards them, you know, this is the explanation. This is why I've gotten to a point with refs where I don't really give a damn about them.

Like I just, I don't. I can't. It's, and it's not all of them, but it seems to be increasingly more of them where it's an impossibility that they were wrong. There's no possibility that you blew that call, right? And their inability to say, hey, man, I might have just missed that. Do you know, I always said to people, and I've always said to refs when I see them, do you know how much credibility you would get with me? Do you know how much fucking leeway you'd get with anyone in this game?

If you genuinely, like, missed the call and you know goddamn well, you didn't see that, and you had to slightly guess at that shit, if you would just say when someone approaches you about said call. If you would just say, yo, I might have missed that. Dude, that deads me. I'm good. I appreciate that. You're genuine, right? You're not going to sit here and tell me because, look, while I'm not a referee,

I play basketball, I don't know, 40 years. I try to tell young people who are refting games in AAU tournaments and, and high school games, this. Like, I know you read a rule book, right? But the hoops that you, you have to jump through are relatively low to be a high school ref.

I've watched the game for 40 years and I know the rules. There's no possibility that you fuck that up. Not one. Not one? Not an iota of possibility that you blew that. And that's the stance that you get from a lot of refs at all levels. And it turns me and a lot of people off. And so, you know, again, I think Eric Lewis in that moment, and Eric's a friend of mine,

if Eric, if Eric, when approach is like, if he just looks like that, I might have fucked that up. I don't, listen, dog, it's not going to make you feel any better necessarily. I can't guarantee you that. But I'm going to tell you that I might have missed that. Dude, that goes so far in the conversation of like the level of vitriol that you're going to get. And the antics that then follow with the camera coming out. You know what I mean? Because it was clear that they told somebody, no, he didn't get fouled.

And he did. Mm-hmm. Well, I do want to give you, I want to give you a pot in this summary way where in the last, in the pool report following the game with the Boston Globe, Eric was actually talking to the Boston Globe about this. And he says, his quote is, there was contact. At the time during the game, we did not see a foul. The crew missed the play. Also, I would like to say this. And, but let me, can I interject real quick? Keep your thought. But let me interject. Here's the deal. Post game, that's fine. But what I'm saying to you is when it happens in the heat of the moment and you are approached by four sets of eyes on the court that see it and one set of eyes and an arm that it happened to. And they're all yelling at you that that was a foul. Yeah. He didn't take that stance then.

I know that. Do you know how I know that? Because how do you know that? How do you know that? Because then Patrick Beverly wouldn't have felt it necessarily. to run over and grab a camera and show him and get the technical foul. Do you understand what I'm saying? So if in that moment, you could acknowledge that instead of playing fucking hard ass and

saying, no, he didn't get fouled. It wasn't a foul. If you just say, hey, man, might have got foul, but we didn't have a good angle on that, didn't see it. Like, if you pacify it like that, you get yourself some equity with people in a way that doesn't set off the chain of events that happened. And I will say this. I wasn't on that side of the court.

I've said that a few times are in this podcast. But seeing the replay, the reps... You can't miss that. No, no, what I'm saying, though, they... I'm not going to your point where, like, if you see Eric or you see any of the other reps, they literally played it like,

oh, they got the call right, every single time of the time, right? LeBron is on all fours in a yoga-like position. And Eric Lewis walks past him like, sorry excuse me you know but I can see why the the Lakers were frustrated one thing I wanted didn't want to ask you just from a ref perspective in general

when did you get to the point where you feel this way right where you have been this way because like were you basically seeing the rest is ops I've never got a fair feeling from referees now I wasn't about to sit there or cry about it like I had a job to do you know what I mean but But the NBA is about, the NBA has done everything they can to take physicality out of the game because what sells tickets?

Offense. Offense. I'm not, I'm not like blowing up anybody's spot and I'm not claiming conspiracy theories or anything like that. The NFL has done it too, right? The NFL's, you know, you can't, that middle of the field is wide open now. You can't, you know, there are things that you can't do as a DB and it's a defensive player and sacking quarterbacks and hitting defenseless receivers like they've stripped

some of the physicality out of it because offense sells. So as a defender by nature, I never really felt like I got a great shake from referees. Do you know what I mean? Like I just, I didn't. Now, I'm not saying I couldn't be difficult to deal with. Like, I'm willing to, you know,

own that. But in my interaction with a lot of them, not all of them, again, I want to be fair, but a lot of them, they come off in a way that is, that is, that is authoritative, It doesn't feel democratic when you're on when you're there.

It doesn't. It feels like and, you know, maybe there's a, there's a part of me that, that, like, you know, deep down, if I was sitting with the psychiatrist or psychologist, I don't like to be, you know, controlled. But like, but that's the way it felt like, like, like you were a prison warding and you was here to tell me, no, you better stop. You better stop that right now. I'm like, motherfucker, fuck you. Who the fuck are you? Like, you know what I mean? Like, bro, who the fuck are you, man?

I'm out here busing my ass all night, you know, chasing these boys around the court. And you have the audacity to speak to me like that. You're showing me up. You're showing me up. Are we having a conversation that I'm not right now? I'm keeping it a buck. I'm keeping it a buck, though. I'm keeping it in a buck.

Like, how are you going to make your mouth up to tell me I'm showing you up? Ain't nobody here to see you? By the nature of this relationship, mofo, you're showing me up. This is my place of business. smiles. Like the goal with which you would have, you know, like come on, bro. And so those have been, you know, my interactions over the years of referees and they've shaped, they've just shaped the way I feel about it.

And I'll just take it a step further because I know I get to yell and screaming and everybody thinks this is a joke. But it's not. This is based in real, like, thoughtful, a real thoughtful place. My livelihood is affected by what you do. Literally. Because every time you get a technical foul, you get a fine. I mean, I don't think people know that.

And then when you get ejected, you get another fine. And say if they feel it's egregious, you get ejected, another fine. Then if you get suspended, that's a game check. That's like that could be six figs right there. Bro, do you know how much money was taken from me by the NBA for like that? NBA is a different story. It's suspending, you know, for things that other people don't get suspended for. But just from referees in situations where like, you know, this movie,

target of like, hey, if I question your call without even cursing at you, you're going to give me a tech. But I could hear X, Y, and Z call you a blankety, blank, blank, blanker and blank, and he's just going to the free throw line. Like, it always bother me, bro. I like, I like, you know, I like transparency. If you come out and you tell me, hey, Raj, listen to this, bro, you are number eight on this roster.

In the big scheme of things tonight, you are number 16 overall of. of 24 people that will play in this game. And I'm going to treat you as such. I say, okay, I got you. Understood. But that's not how they approach you, man. Like, oh, no, no, no, no. We're out here to call this even and fair

and everybody's going to get it. That's bullshit. Miss me with that. So, okay, I'm going to play the Roger Bell role right now and play a game we'd like to call devil's advocate. Long-time game of real ones, as you guys know. What about the pressure that a referee has to deal with, which is I have to deal with egos.

I have to deal with the Roger Bell who is, who scrapped and clawed his way into the league and is not seen, it doesn't feel seen in the same way that a, you know, let's say for sake of argument, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan, Dirk Davinsky, all LeBron James, all the players in your era that you played with, right? Yep.

I have to manage this game while also making it entertaining for the general consumer. No, no, no, no. You don't have to make it entertaining. You don't. It's not your job. It's our job. You've already missed. It's not your fucking job. You already missed. I'm out. I'm out of the conversation, Logan. Not your job to make it entertaining. That's my job. Continue. Take the entertainment part out of that.

But I have to manage all these egos on the court. And if I miss a call or if I even miss a call that I am trying so hard to be good, I am going to get the vitriol not only from these players, but also the rest of the basketball community in the world at large. That is what's going through their heads. Yes. A lot of pressure. A lot of pressure going through their heads, right?

Which would, which I could see somebody just the way, same way you're defensive and rightfully so, they might be defensive of like, hey, fuck you, man, I work hard at this shit. I work hard at this. And I, and I, and I, this is what I thought in this moment and I worked through all these things too. And, and, and I am not saying that there's not a lot of pressure and competition to be an NBA ref. I would say the way I say a lot about a lot of jobs that people, you know, sign up for, hey, that's, you chose to do it. Like, you chose to do it. So the pressure that comes along with it, like, we all got pressure.

Like, that's not. Now, I've always said, there are times where I expect a tech, and I have no problem what you giving me a tech. So if I'm calling you out of your name as someone in that position under a lot of pressure, I'm trying to get a tech. But even if I've approached you in a way that is threatening, like, I'm not saying that there's no circumstances that a player shouldn't get a tech or shouldn't be reprimanded or shouldn't even be stood up to and say, hey, bro, you don't talk to me like that.

But way too often with referees, it doesn't rise to that level. there are plenty of instances where it does, but the instances where it doesn't rise to that level and you're met with that level of response is what I'm saying. So I can acknowledge that refs have a lot of pressure. I can acknowledge that in some instances, they have a hard job to do by managing all of those personalities and the people pulling at them for the results that they would like to have.

All of that is fair and taxing in a way that I can't really understand. I would just say that, you know, maybe if both parties tried to see things from the other party's perspective, there'd be better relationships. I found the best refs, again, to have the ability to see things slightly from my perspective. And those tended to be the ones that would say to you, hey, Raj, look, I probably missed that one. Or I got you. I'm going to check for that, Rod. Like, and right there as a player, we're good. We're good.

Who, whether you do it or not. Who is the, what are the model refs that you speak of on this on this? So that's you have experienced where you're like, okay, I get it. That was a fair interaction that I've had because like, yeah, I'm going to be honest. Like as a, and this goes back to your point, I am a, you know, I've covered the league for a minute. But more than anything, man, I'm just a consumer of basketball, right? And most consumers of basketball, right? consumers of basketball, they're not checking for the rep's names and all these things and

having a scouting report on. The casual fan at least, right, isn't looking at every single rep in their names and all these things and doing that. And I just want them, the casual fan, to at least know what are the types of rest they should be looking for as a model ref when they see that team going on their team? And like, what are the qualities that a model ref should be? Like what are the qualities that they should have? And tell me about the interaction with like be,

throw some names out there. I don't, but listen, I don't know about, I don't know what they instruct refs to be in terms of model refs. I've not taken referee courses. You know, I always enjoyed, and these are going to see, here's the other part. Refes are human, right? Like you catch them on days.

They might be having a bad day too. They might be doing a great job in the game from an X's and O reffing standpoint. And they might have had a fight with their wife before they got or their partner or something before they got on the on the court and and you caught them in a bad headspace. So now the interaction is weird, right? So like I'll say names like Joey Crawford, who was always big personality part of the show. It gave Tim Duncan texts for for laughing or smiling on the bench.

Like I always found Joey Crawford to be really good to deal with. Even though every call didn't go my way with Joey Crawford and I didn't always get what I wanted. At least we had a dialogue and we could see each other's point of view. Steve Javy another one. Like, you know, Javi, Javi early in my career, I did have a little problem with. He came off. He had like a, I think a police type of background and it came off like that a little bit.

But as I got to know him and I played more, a guy that you could talk to doesn't necessarily mean he was giving you calls. Doesn't necessarily mean things was going your way. But at least there was a conversation that could be had on a professional level that that made you feel like, yeah, we're in this together. or you're not necessarily the ops. Can you dig what I'm saying? Like, we're in this together,

though. We're trying to make this thing, you know, the best possible viewing experience and give everyone an even playing field to play on. I'm trying to think of some other names. Moni McCutcheon was good.

You know, I thought Eric Lewis. Eric Lewis is my guy. I thought he was good too, but really quick to hand out text. I had another friend of mine that's a referee. John, Johnny Goebel. I used to play against him in high school.

school. I like Johnny, but Johnny's quick to give you a tech. How do you become, like you just said Eric Lewis is your partner? How do you become after the fact friends with reps who you've had like, is it just like, yo, we go back and forth for so long we end up being partners? Or like how does that work? No, so my sister

knows Eric, my sister like I said, was a ref. She was a D1 women's ref and was in the pool of of refs for WMBA. This was before there were as many women reffing NBA games. And so she got to know a lot of the better refs in the Florida area.

Eric's from Daytona. So not to put his business in the street, but he's from up the road. My sister knows him, so I became friends with him. Johnny Goebel, I used to play against in high school. He went to Miami High down here. So I've known him since he was like 11 years old. And I like Johnny. He's a good ref.

But Johnny would tech me up off of like, I'm like, what the fuck? What? What? Why are you acting like that? No cursing. Like just you've had too much dialogue with him. Yeah, I got another good friend. He played college basketball with me.

He's named Dedrick Taylor, Dedy Taylor. He's from Miami. I didn't have a chance to play when he reft. He seems to be a pretty good ref, too, though. Okay, okay. So there are people that, and I don't want, we've talked enough about refereeing and things like that for a whole episode. Geez. Forgive me, people.

I didn't anticipate that today, Logan. I wasn't ready for that. It's just only the biggest story in the league at this point. So, you know, we had to talk about it. But there are people, this is how we can just put a bow in this thing. There are a lot of people that are saying, man, these refs should have refs big games again. This crew is just bad. What is the recourse?

I mean, and I want to say this too, the refs did take responsibility. Now, did it result in what it should have resulted in, free throws for LeBron? not necessarily, but they did take accountability. And like, as you've heard through in discussion, that means a lot. Like, they did take responsibility. What is the best course of action going forward for this crew and the people that are in this crew? I think there's some really good refs in the crew, i.e., you know, and I've talked about Eric Lewis, I think he's a really good referee.

I think he gets graded out as such by the NBA because he's in big playoff games. And that's one of their rewards, you know, that's, and conversely, one of their punishment. for not being good is that you don't get to ref in those big playoff games, right? And so Eric's a good ref. Everyone makes mistakes, dude. It's a tough game to ref. Things are happening really fast. There are points in the game, though, that I think it becomes more critical that I'm

not of the belief that if you miss that call in the second quarter, it has the same impact that if you miss it on the game winning shot, right? So, like, there are points in the game where that becomes a more egregious miss of a call. I don't know that there's got to be some kind of punishment. It happens all the time. Yeah. It does. People, that play is missed all the time where someone's shooting the last second shot

and either fouls or doesn't get fouled and the refs miss it. So I don't know that there needs to be punishment. I just generally believe that if a ref is doing a good job in any sport, you don't know they're there. They're not a part of the story. They're not a part of the story about whether the game was one or lost. They're not a part of the story in terms of their interaction with a lot. the player of any caliber, star or otherwise, you just don't even know they're there.

The game goes off without a hitch. It's great to watch. Everybody played well and everyone goes home. As soon as those reps are inserted in some capacity into the narrative that night or day, I feel like they've not done a good job. That's fair point. All right, man. Let's get to Marcus Thompson.

We talked a lot, a friend of the show, we talked a lot about the Warriors state of affairs. He's the number one guy to talk about those things with. So we talked last week about Bob Myers' future on the Warriors, Draymond Green, Jordan Pool, Steph, everything that you would want to do on Warriors' Talk. It's coming at the end of this break. So we're going to take a break real quick and go to Marcus. And we are back. We got a special guest in, I want to say, we got a special guest in the neighborhood.

Shout out to Big Boy, but we got one of my dogs, one of my mentors, all the vibes. But right now, it's time to introduce Marcus Thompson. What's up, Bo? How you doing? Yadda, I mean, town biz.

Levine in the house. Sorry. My bad. I went too far. Wait, wait. Sorry. I thought we got to do this at the end of the pod.

We got to rev up to just throw a sets. We don't do that in the beginning. We got to wrap. Marcus Thompson of the athletic long-time columnist in the base. area. My dog, he just contributed him, Sam Amick, and Anthony Slater. I'm not in the bay right now, but I'd imagine that this article that y'all just put it out, just reverberated around

the bay in a lot of ways. And it's entitled, Why the Warriors are in danger of losing Bob Myers. This is co-written by you, Anthony Slater, and Sam Amick. And I think this is a good time to get you on the pod because I've been meaning to have the Warriors conversation. I feel like it's been building. I've been, we've been, we're about what, they're halfway point of the season. There have been a lot of talks, a lot of excuses for why the Warriors are hovering around 500. And there's always the thought that maybe they'll get this right this season. But right now it's a little sketchy. I feel like there's we're at a big inflection point um marcus man where are we at with the with the warriors right now as a staff record label and a crew at this point in this juncture right now in january

in danger becoming death row absolutely faster prime yeah uh no i do feel like i'm i'm of the minority of community it's not good but i think they'll be fine only because because to think they would repeat was a wild thought anyway, right? Like, it was possible, yes. They have been wildly inconsistent. But when they play the big games, they show up. And it feels a little bit, like, remember they did this in 2018, 19, but they were so loaded that they could just in the fourth quarter to win the game.

But they spent most of that season tricking games off. off. It feels like that, but they don't have the punch to finish it, right? So I still believe that if they make the playoffs, like, they're going to be a tough out. This is going to be tough. The way they play, they get up for big games, they need the advantage of no back-to-backs, right? They need that. Like, that matters to, like, hold on, I get two days off in between a game? Oh, okay, but at the same time, at some point, you want to, like, literally, literally, really see a stretch of it. That's the crazy part. Like, they're the one team

in the West who hasn't, like, put together that 10-game stretch. Their best stretch was five games, and it didn't have Steph Curry a wiggins for it. Like, it was like Ty Jerome and him out there cooking. Like, that's their best five-game stretch when they went on that win-street. So we just

haven't seen them pull it together. It just feels like a lot of internal and self-inflicted wounds are their problem. And to me, as long as that's the case, they still are the Warriors, but man, if I don't see anything after an all-star break, I might, I might, you know, you, man, you might start looking at other labels. You might be trying to sign an aftermath.

We got to figure out who Dr. Dre is in this analogy. We'll see, we'll see what happens. But it's just, we're talking, and I want to preface this by saying, we are talking on a Friday before a Monday show. anything happens in between this is all Marcus's fault. But we are also talking, we are all talking after the Warriors beat the Memphis Grizzlies. And that is an interesting, that was an interesting win just for the simple fact that the Grizzlies are always the team that sticks their chest out with the Warriors and they are always somehow beaten by the Warriors, especially

this season, right? Ever since that playing game, they have been that team. And I think it's just a, It's the symbol of where the Warriors are this season where they are a team that they can't get right, but when they do look good, they look really, really good. They look like they can, I think about opening night where they just go and beat up on the Lakers and or when every home game that they have needed to win by and large, I think except for that Phoenix game, they have won the game. But you start to hear, and everybody that you talk to within the Warriors organization is like, You know, we'll be fine. Don't want to, and they go, they'll go into what you say of, can't nobody in the West Beat us. Can't nobody in the West Beas will be fine. We'll be doing all these things.

But then this story comes out, right? And this is something, and they're talking about Bob Myers, the key points that you three laid out, you Slater and Amick, was basically the talks have still been stalled. Joe Lacobs seems to be, there's a discrepancy in. how much money they want to pay Bob Myers and also if what he is getting paid currently in the respect level that comes with this. The question I'm trying to ask right now, why don't you just pay Bob Myers? Why isn't it just as simple as that, Marcus? Has it ever been?

Has it ever been that simple? He's never done. Steph Curry's contract is coming up. Was it that simple? It was like, yeah, can you? Steph, can you give a couple dollars? back like i don't think you get to be jaleika by just paying guys right like you don't get to be the billionaire by not trying to figure out a way you can uh underpay for overproduction uh so i do think

that's part of it in this situation though especially he probably knows bob myers better than all but if there was one dude you just need to be like hey man i know what you do i know what you mean I'm doing this for you, right? Like, Meyer seems like that guy. But to be honest, I don't know how much of this is money. Like, I don't know the percentages, but I don't think it's as big as people think. Money obviously helps, but I just wonder if I want to do this anymore, right? I wonder if he sees, like, even if it isn't over now, the end is coming.

And do I want to be part of the next iteration or is it time for me to do something else? and we know that because he's already made this like dramatic life-changing decision when he gave up his agency to become a front office dude for an awful franchise, right? So I wonder how much of this is his daughters are getting older. It's a fishbowl that he's been kind of the glue for

and they've been through a crazy amount of stuff and now it's coming to the head like who gets paid, who gets traded and all that. And he's just like, yeah, I think I want to sign with, maybe I want to sign with an aftermath. I don't know. Maybe he want to go to dream man. He hang out with Jake on, man. I don't know. I can see that being now, obviously, if somebody comes with some crazy money, that will answer uncertainty for you, right? So if you're like, I don't know, do I want to keep going? I want to do something else?

And your leg is like, here's a dub. Oh, yeah. That solves it, right? But absent of that, it feels like Bob is. It's just like, what do I want to do with the next 10 years of my life if it's not this? When do I decide to make this exit? And why not at the end of this contract? And it's interesting because you brought up a – I don't think people realize this. I don't think the average fan realizes this. They see Steph, Dre, and Clay, and Kevin Durant, Andreo. They see these great players.

But I don't think there's a lot put into the fact. of how important Bob Myers is to this whole equation. If he is the, he might be the most important piece, especially going into an offseason like this, people forget, though. He is the guy that has kept this team together when it's not just about,

I'm scouting this guy. I am drafting this guy. It is shit. Draymond is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, is, let me go, let me go to his house and, and break bread and make sure things are cool. oh man, you know, Kevin just Kevin and Andreemond are going at it.

Let me, I love them both. Let me just get them in a room and so we can figure this out. Or, you know, what I'm trying to say is he deals with the level of stress that not a lot of GMs can even fathom at this point, of their careers at this point. And it's bigger than just, oh, we need him.

Like, this is a life thing for Bob Myers. How much of that is, playing into his decision because you did bring it about money. To your point, it doesn't seem like it's about money. It seems a lot more than that, right? Like, it seems like, dog, I might just need a break. I just might need to just chill and just relax and not deal with the constant. Because on one hand, he got step in his ear, he got Joe Lakeb in his ear, which isn't always fun. He has Draymond who wants a new contractor, that uncertainty, which we'll get to in a bit. How much of it, like, dog, this dude just might just need like just a time to breathe or another step somewhere else

to where he doesn't have to go through with the constant circus of what he's going through now. Yeah, I think, I mean, you said it off rip, like the money, but it's the respect that comes with it, right? I feel like just, you know, putting my little amateur psychology hat on or psychiatrist's hat, whichever one it is, I feel like the money comes into play because it's more like a, hey, do you know that I'm not a normal GM? Right. And we're talking about like the big stuff obvious, right? Like he was the, he was the guy Kevin Durant rocked with, right? He's the guy Draymond Green rocked with. He's the guy Steph rocks with, right?

Like people talk about all that, the big situations, but it's all the little ones. When, when Steph has, he hurts his knee in a 2016 playoffs and you don't know what's at when it is. Like Bob Myers is going to the MRI with him. Like, yo, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm going to be right there with you, right? When Draymond Green gets suspended, who's in the suite with him for game five? Like, getting off from Tennessee by Marchand. You know what I'm saying? It's always about it, right?

Or even this season, even this season, what happened the biggest storyline this season, Jordan Poole and Draymond, which we'll get you in a little bit later. Who was the one to talk to us the first time? The one, the one who steps out there and is the front man. for the whole franchise in the craziest time. Remember when KD tours Achilles in the finals? It's Bob out there. And that to me is where the money comes in.

It's like, wait a second. Based on what I've done, and keep in mind, all this stuff might happen with other GMs, but none of them have done it for a dynasty. Right? None of them have done it in a situation that they've been in. So that's what makes it like Holistically unique. Yeah,

Mori's done, I don't know if Mori doesn't mean that. But Mori can do it. I could see Masayu, Jiri, be in this type of damn. But none of them have done it at the level of scrutiny and pressure and visibility that the warriors have had. That's what makes it unique. Well, it's funny. Like, the only comparison to this in this moment,

like you can compare them to the Spurs. That's what they want to be long term. I don't think that they're more in line with what the Bulls are, right? If you look at the Bulls dynasty, like, Jerry Krauss was beefing with everybody, you know? And it had to come to an end. Bob Myers has gone through a rebuild and a championship run and a full dynasty. And it's kind of kept the piece for the most part.

That's his value. Absolutely. And I feel like the uniqueness of the situation, I'd probably look too, be like, why am I not the highest pay? Right? Why am I not? And then on top of that, you look at just the actual basketball of it. Like, Heaven Durant is he? coming here without Bob Myers is, you know, do you make the deal for Wiggins?

Like, oh, another guy who's about Myers guy, Andre Aguadala, right? Like, yeah. All these guys have this, like, really intimate relationship with Myers, which allows a lot. I mean, you know, you behind the season, you know, you remember what it was in the halls of Oracle. Like, there was always this possibility for something to explode, right? Like, there was always some crisis to manage. It was like right before we was kids, what'd you write before you see it,

right before you think there's a fight about to pop off? That's what it was like at times. You could feel that tension, yeah. He was the one that was doing that. Sometimes it's a fight. Sometimes it's just like something get out that they don't want to out. Like it's all everything is fair game

when you're running a dynasty, right? Everything, like everything is on the table. You know, people trying to hustle, people try to get in, like all that. Somebody's got to manage that egos. People want to promote it. Not only that. There's funny. Not even just on the basketball side. We both, I know you've heard stories about this. I've heard stories about this as well. Even on the business side, like the front office and the community events, I've heard stories of like Bob Myers going up into meetings and like just having these heartfelt ass messages and like holding it down on that end as well. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not he's not that your typical GM. He is, he is, it's much more than that with him. it's so many levels, yeah.

So, and he got, he got four championships, right? Like, that's part of it. You got four championships. So I could see him saying, like, man, and I'm not even being compensated like it, like I should be, right?

Like, you could see what he's like, you said in your reporting that he was like, he was top three. He said that to Kawakami, but like, Myers could be eighth or ninth on the totem pole in terms of GMs, bro.

That's, that's sick. That's, that's, come on. I mean, the Warriors, I mean, the Warriors ownership,

obviously, like, yeah, we pay him top three. So, you know, that's a, the point is, like, I don't, I just don't know. I just, I wonder, I feel like it's just Bob Myers wondering what you want to do. And the money isn't making him say, I'm absolutely doing this. There's no offer that's making him say, hey, I ain't, I ain't leaving.

Like, I'm going nowhere, right? And I'm sure, we know Joe, Joe, break bread. Like, you know, you know he's got the offer on the table. money, right? But we also know Bob too, right? Like, Bob, like, hold on, man. We're like, Bob is the type who wants you to understand and appreciate who he is without him

having to ask you or without him having to tell you. You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to ask you to evaluate and really analyze how valuable. You should just know based on what I do and say it, because I'm not about to beg you for it. Like, that's kind of how Bob is. So the money, whatever

it is, is not making him say, oh, absolutely. we go on to the second timeline that's all I mean like whatever he the offer is top three said whatever it is it ain't enough to make him be like maybe I shouldn't try my hand at this right and that's that's where it's keep in mind too Logan he also got young kids who are like growing when your kids grow up in this and that was like I think about this with step like at some point you'll be like after you've done they've done everything they've literally done everything they reached the top came back down and reached the top again like the only next to me Everything they do now would be recreating, yeah,

will be doing again what they've already done. Some people are going to be like, do I want to be, I might just want me around my kids. Like, you know, that matters. What is, when, specifically with this, like,

what does this say about, we talked about the Bob Myers end of it. What does it say about the Joe Lacob end of this, right? Because Joe Lacob is a guy, even this, even over the, he's a guy that, like, he sticks his chest out. The warrior fans love Joe Lacob. because he's that guy, right?

But he's also that guy who is a very shrewd negotiator, right? Even over the summer where, but he's a shrewd negotiator that always seems to relent when it's necessary. Case in point. We didn't know what Jordan Poole was going to, and Jordan Poole and Wiggins were going to get their deals done in the, going into the training camp, right? Two weeks later, it's like, all right, we're going to make it happen. Let's just do it. Pay to bread. Let's make sure.

Because at the end of the day, Joe Lacob wants to. win championships. He wants to win. That is his thing. That is why even when the Warriors were in the red for the first time during this dynasty, he was like, I don't know about Andrew Wiggins, I don't know about Jordan Poole. And then it was like, oh, we got a chance to go back to back. He couldn't even, like, he couldn't even fathom losing guys and even losing the chance to win another title. How does that work on this one? And is there a chance that he could do the same with Bob Myers and just say, you know what, man, I got you, bro. Or is it more than that, back to the respect that you just said. No, I still think he will. I still think, I still think he going to be like,

all right, man, here you go. You know what I'm saying? Like, you ain't going nowhere. You know, take this money. Now, what if he do that and Bob Dip? Like, that's a whole different ballgame, right? But I do feel like the way Joe operates, like, of course he's going to do this. And there are people behind the scene to it like, man, man, when it comes out to him, Bob going to get his money, nowhere right. Joe will pay him. It's like Joe always pay. He always pay. Like, and part of his, like lately he's been on

that, it feels like wolf tickets, but I ain't paid. Y'all's going to decide because he always end up paying, right? So I still think everyone in the organization knows that because it's gone. There was so many negotiations where it's like, you know, like we're talking about Andre Guadala, his first negotiation, man. Oh, no,

I don't know. Last minute here. We're going to pay you, bro. All right. Here. Steph Curry, you vet it like in his $200 million contract. Man, come on. All right, fine. I got you, bro. I got you. It's all good.

You know, I feel like he's going to do it. I feel like he's going to do it with the crazy salary cap figure he's saying he can't do. That's what Joe do, man. It's the amount of pressure he puts on people to be the best. The reason he can do that is because you get rewarded, right? Like, there's a reward. Like, you're going to get what he's supposed to get.

So, and, you know, they obviously, should be getting more from a player perspective. If you ask Andre and a dollar, right? They should be getting like scares in the company and all that ownership. But we just haven't seen Joe, like, a not break bread. We haven't seen stuff not go down because of the money part of it. Like, we just haven't seen that. But at the same time, like, we also see he don't play that, like,

emotional intelligence type game, right? Whereas, like, y'all managing personnel based on, on who they are and how they are, right? It's like, nah, I'm like, I'm breaking the bread, so I'm gonna be like this. So sometimes that dude, like, where sometimes a hug might help somebody, you know, more than, more than money, buddy.

I don't know if Joe gives off the hugs. I don't know. Well, this is the first time. Well, he hugs championship trophies, but the thing is with the human aspect, that it's ironic because that's why he has Bob Myers to be the hugger and to be his second. You know what I'm saying?

That's why he has him. Which is smart by him, right? So like, yo, I ain't that dude. I'm going to get that dude, right? That makes sense if you, Joe. Like, Joe ain't playing. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's like, hey, look, we're going to talk business.

Yeah, but it's interesting because how to, let's talk about the ripple effect of what, if Bob leaves. And this is talking about the importance of if Bob leaves, the ripple effect. And I think Joe knows this, which is why I think he's going to end up breaking the bread and cutting a check is because especially this summer. if Bob Myers doesn't return, you got to explain that shit to Steph. You got to explain, first off, you got to explain that stuff to Steph. And then Steph's, that's where it all comes down to. You got to explain it to Steph. You've got to figure out what you're going to do with Draymond.

We want to get to that situation at a second. You've got to figure out just so many different things that only a, this is not the time where you have someone this important jump ship, you know, that's so monumental, at least when you would have to have them for another. You're like, how important is this summer when you need a guy like Bob Myers? How important is that for this team right now? Man, I think if Bob Dip, that might be it, bro. Yeah.

I think that might be it. Because no matter what, a new guy needs to trade everyone, right? A new guy needs to figure that out. And you know what that takes out of the equation? It takes the sentimentality out of the equation, right? Whoever the new guy is will be responsible for the new era and have far less allegiance to the previous era. Unless they promote somebody within. But even if they promote somebody within, they wouldn't have the connections with Myers that the current crop has.

So you're going to have four veterans who won championships look inside eye. Like, they're going to be thinking like this might be it, right? Like, Draybaw got a player option. Does he pick it up? Your real only hope of keeping this thing together really is either paying all the money in the world possible or getting Clay to take a discount. Why would he even do that if you've already ushered in a new era with a new gene? And then you've got to think about, I mean, it would be hard to imagine a life without Steph, but who's going to be Steph's confidant? Like who, Bob Myers is the guy he goes and talks to about, like, family and life.

Like, you know, Steph, he one of those dudes, he, he ain't just about to talk to you about basketball. He wants some, he wants people around him that could simulate him in other ways. That's, that's been Bob Myers, right? That is Bob Myers. How does it impact his relationship with the franchise and exists in the space if he loses that from his team? No one he can go anywhere. Like, I'm not saying Steph will leave, but I'm not saying like it guarantees he'll stay. Like, hold on, man, all this stuff that was here that made this play.

like I'm never leaving, you start pulling a little bits away. Now, Draymond and Clay gone. Now, you know what I'm saying? Bob Myers going, right? And the other thing is if Bob Myers leave, what does that do with Steve Kerr? What if the new dude clash with Steve Kerr? What if Kerr? They are BFFs.

And we know Kerr. Kerr one of them do is like, Kerr could take it or leave it. Like, he, Kerr's like, yo, he wanted like, yo, I'll be out tomorrow and I'll be fine. The alternative for Steve Kerr is coach, this is why every time Steve comes on the pot, I ask him, like, yo, how long are you going to be coaching? Because the alternative for Steve is, I'm going to go down to San Diego and just live my life and play golf, bro. Like, I don't even got to deal with none of distress. This is how he can put all of stuff into it. Because he got that, you remember, you know, and he, like, hey, man, don't be attached to nothing.

You can't walk away from a 30 seconds. Like, this is what I love about Steve. Steve will be like, yo, I'm going to be good regardless. right? So while you got me, you got all of me. But I can be like, hey, I got options, right? Steve, I don't ever see Steve coaching another team. Like, I see Steve, if he leaves, he's probably, like, if he, like,

rise this out for, like, another five years. I just don't see him picking up. But he could if you want to. He don't have to. He could. He could go back to TV. He's going to get another team. I'm like, Steve, man, and he know that, right?

Steve is very comfortable and who he is. He's like, hey, I don't. I mean, I'm not saying he would leave him by the left, but if the new situation becomes something he don't like, is anybody going to be, is anybody less likely to do things to appease a new guy so he can keep this job than Steve? Like, Steve, like, I'm not doing this stuff to keep this job.

I like this job, but the moment I'll stop liking it, I'll be all right, not doing it, right? So you just don't know how this stuff work out. And if this place is no longer the place they all know, then you lose the ability to keep, like it hurts the ability to keep them. Steph loves the Warriors. He loves the Bay.

He loves being on one team. But if this place somehow becomes drastically different, can any of us say he would absolutely say? Like, Steph is about as sentimental and, like, nostalgic as anybody, right? Like, he still love Oracle, right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, so I'm just saying, like, to me, this could be, Bob Marys leaving could be the first Donald, like, Nest was an article, to be the first domino of a series of ones where it's like, all right, now you transition to the next phase. Maybe sooner than anybody wanted, but if he goes,

that might be the start of it. And like, even these, even these conversation in these article signals that the end is nearer than it's ever been for this Warriors team. And I think the face of that right now is Draymond, right? The face of that at this

point, because he's the first one of that big three right now, like, just his contract is in flux. He has a player option, but that don't guarantee he's back next year by any means, right? Like, how is he, I know I've been there. I've been in Chase, but I haven't been there like you have. What is, what is his vibe right now? Where is he? Where's Draymond at at this point of the season? Like, I was there in the beginning where, you know, where all the shit popped off.

And it, he's, he's in this weird. space, man, like where, you know, like a case in point, like he's going on these media tours. He's kind of doing the thing where he's trying to clearly be the TV guy and the stuff that he's about to do when he's retiring. But like he's also, it seems just like he's just out there in the abyss. And he's just like, he's, it does, every time I see Dremont on television talking about this Jordan Poole situation, I'm like, it don't got to be like this, you know? We'll get into that in a second.

But where is Draymond overall right now in this season? I think Draymond has essentially reached a point where he's like reclaiming who he was before the incident. Like first step he had to, you know, repair the relationships in the locker room. And then he had the ball, right? He had to prove to people like his value extend. His value was still there. And he did that. Like you can't even imagine this team.

without Dremont anymore, right? Which I think having those two has a lot of them to say, all right, and now I'm free to kind of get back to what I was doing before. And, you know, maybe I feel like he knew he was going to be able to do this all alone, even though the situation felt like he out of him. It's like one of the Houdini actors.

Like, I don't see Houdini get out a lot of stuff. This one, I don't know. So it felt like he knew the whole time, but he actually did it. Like he's got himself to the point where they rock with him again. He's got himself to the point where it's clearly vital for him to be on this team to have any shot of win a championship. And now he's like, all right, I'm not going to stay in purgatory forever, right? Like, now I get to kind of resume some of the stuff.

And I don't know if it's that simple. Like you're, like I said, I know you're locked in a bit more than I am. But, like, I don't know if it's that simple because, you know, I know what on the, like, you know, him and JP went at it or whatever, and that, that whole situation happened. But there's still some, everything that I keep hearing there, and I want to get your take on this. There's still the idea of, like, especially, like, he went on this Jordan pool, like, I don't know if it's like apology tour or whatever. Like, he went to, like, resurface what happened. He talked to Taylor Rooks. He talked to Stephen A.

anybody with a microphone who wants to ask about the Jordan pool situation. He is willing and ready to talk about it. J.P. hasn't talked a bunch about it. But there's a sense that Draymond is saying all the things publicly

right now about the Jordan pool situation that he probably should just say privately to people around Jordan and with Jordan. I am scared of like that he got a little too much dip on his ship on this in that instance. you get what I'm saying,

where it's like he's saying all this stuff that probably should just be in-house. Do you think that that would jeopardize anything right now? Because there is clearly, this thing hasn't healed by any means. You know, like it's not, it's cordial, they slap vibes, it's cool, but I don't think it's never going to be what it was.

And I think that he's in danger by doing all these appearances and talking about it as much as he's talking about to, you know, just bring unnecessary, attention to the situation that should already be resolved. Yeah, but what's the consequence of that? It can be worse than the consequence he already went through. So if you're like, hey, the worst y'all can do to me has been done, what's you going

do to me now? And if you're Dremy, either it's over or it ain't, right? Like, if I'm done, if it's over and I'm done, like he said, writing's on the wall, then I may as well do me and prepare for my next act, right? Like, if I'm out, I'm out. But, and if it's not over and y'all see what I've done and it's like, yo, let's rock this. Then at what point do I get to be who I am? Do I literally have to be somebody else for the rest of my time here to continuously make it up for what I did?

Like at some point, the decision is off him. Well, yeah, that's true. But with this, I know, we both know Draymond, but that's true. And that would be, that would be, in my opinion, that'd be. appropriate thing to say if this wasn't your like 17th violation over you know it just takes a toll but i feel like that all makes you more free you know what i'm saying draymond itself but i'm talking about like with his future with the team you know what i'm saying like it's just it's accumulation effect but if he's fine with the idea that he might be out if he's gotten a piece with that

like this might be in so i'm gonna be me going out then he has what does he get out of not being him at this point. And we both notice with Draymond, like, him and the Warriors behind the scenes have always, like, there's going to get a statue, he's going to get his jersey retired, he's going get everything in front of Chase Center. He has stamped it all of that. But like over the years, we both noticed, bro, like, there has been some contentious stuff behind the scenes, some that people know, some people that people don't know, like,

for instance, like the 2020 season before it went down to a pandemic, like, the coaches was hell of mad at him because he would, he wouldn't, there would be some games, and he's admitted this where he just wouldn't give effort and he would just be, you're going to know eventually anyway. You're going to say it. Right. But there's, but there's, I know, right? But there's all those things where, like, you know, it's in a lot of his orbit,

a lot of the reason why he stayed despite that, excuse me, though, is because of Steph, right? Now, like, and that goes to my next question. And Bob. And Bob. And Bob. But like, you know, I've heard a lot of people say, like, I just know that like, the reason why he is by those two people, be like, nah, he's staying when a lot of people have been wanting him gone for years. Where is Steph on him right now? And where, like, what is, is there going to be like this summer maybe if Joe Lakers who at that point may or may not have a big deal or may not be there?

But somebody goes and like, hey, man, let's say it's. Bob Myers goes, yo, Steph, we're trying to rebuild this team, we're trying to do this, we got to let go of Dremont. Just,

you know, you know how it is, we lost this, because this only happens if they lose it. If they win another title, I think Draymond's back. But hey,

Steph. If they went another title, I think he goes. Really? Really? You think he's gone? I think he's, let's say that.

Let's say, let's say, let me go out. Hold on. I got that. You all see what I do. That's what I'm going to do. We'll get to that in a second because I do have a segment for that.

We'll get to that in the second. All right. We'll get to that in a second. But like, let's say if like, if there does come a point where like, yo, the conversation needs to be had, you know, you think Steph will accept it like, yeah, man. It's, it's, it's, it's, I get it. I understand. I love that man. That's, you know, I love him.

But it's just time. I don't think that would be the conversation that would make stuff okay with it. I mean, the follow-up is who's replacing Draymond? I mean, really, steps only recourse. I mean, if we're just being real about it, is to try to dip with Draymond. Right? Like, otherwise, I mean, he can make us think about it, but it's like, yo, all right, well, then I'm out. And I feel like the answer to who replaces Draymond will go a long way to determine it if that's his response.

But I don't think, like, hey, it's time would be enough of an answer. I don't think that. I think if Draymond came to him and said, hey, man, I love you, you, my brother, but I got to go. Like, I'm trying to go. That's a conversation that's really in playing that could happen, though. I feel like that's where Steph will be like, I want what's best for you. you know what I'm saying but you know in the end man the thing that they bonded over the thing that

makes them like a brotherhood is they both want to win like like and that's what draymond always banks on when he does need to like uh rehabilitate it's like if if if the bottom line is winning and winning on the court and winning in life and winning in relationships this is what I do. I will always be able to win and win people back. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, I feel like he knows that and that's the language they share in common. Because truth that they don't have much of common outside of this, right? Like, they ain't going to Seahawks games and throwing popcorn at people. Yeah, yeah. But like being parents and husbands, you know, they got their vibe. That's, that's fairly new. Well, they also got different lives, though,

right? Because, like, Draymond don't even live in debate no more. Like, he's, he's like, he's like, He's like a distant homie right now. Like, it's great right now that they see each other during the season, but they don't see each other during the offseason like that. Like, they don't. I mean, they're in two different places. They, like, they, that's how Steph's been, though. You know, he's a mogul, man.

He's getting around. And Draybond built his own Empire, too. So, like, I feel like that's what their bond has been. It's all the experiences they had together. And they both are maniacal competitors who want to win. And they don't they can rely on each other. And they, speak that language. So to me, if Draymond wanted to stay and was down to stay and wanted to win

and was the best option to win, I don't think it's time or work for Steph. I think that's when the comments start getting a little bit more spicy and, you know, like things start changing a bit. But if like, if you're like, yo, Draybine and Clay for Janus and we're like, we're going to start a new era, shoot, I think Draymond might sign off on that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You know, like,

Hey, man, I mean, ain't nobody really, right? Ain't nobody going to tell you the truth. Like, yeah, you need to go get that dude. But I think it'll be more about, and then Draymond will get the buyout

and go to the Lakers and play with LeBronnick. You know what I'm saying? That's exactly what happened. Not for the money they're going to have. Right, right. Drake starting to get that brand. I'm thinking more pistons is where you go. But I do feel like that's a conversation between stuff.

and Draymond. Like, Steph's response is going to be based on hearing and talking to Draymond. That's my read on the situation. Like, whatever they've been through, whatever, in the end,

like, they will have to look each other in the eye and decide how they want to handle this, right? And if it happens another way, it would be definitely contrary to the relationship they've had all these years. So I want to talk about the off season a little bit, right? And I think whenever I watch this Warriors team,

I think about, when I compare it to last year's team, and I talk to this with a lot of people, I'm sure we've had this conversation. The difference between this team and last year's team is they don't have a middle ground, right? Last year, they had vets, and they had young, they had middle of the pack guys, and then they had young dudes. They had the auto porters, they had the GP2s, they had guys that can kind of settle when you need somebody to settle. Now they just have veterans and young dudes that are trying to figure. it out. And it makes me think about last summer when there were the rumors that when Kevin Durant gave the trade request. And I noticed Steph said this before, and I'm sure you had Intel on this last summer. Steph wanted, or at least was like, hmm, Katie could come back? What's going on here?

Okay, I take that. Like, I at least see what's up. Do you think that the, that Steph or in particular the Warriors when Kevin Durant sends that trade request? Do you think that they had like an inkling of what was what the roster construction was going to be this season and be like, you know what, make this a whole lot better and make this a lot if we just bring the gang back together? What was the thinking around that, you think? Nobody, nobody who signs checks was thinking of us bring the gang back together. that's the problem and people should remember this

Kevin Durant did not get traded to the Warriors they didn't lose any assets to give him he was a luxury addition they just haven't been he was a ringer that's funny they haven't been in the business of giving up assets right even when they got Andre Aguadalem

they gave up the expiring contracts of Andre's Bejans and Richard Jefferson. Right? Like, they haven't, they've, like, even when they had the chance to trade Clay for Kevin Love, they didn't do it. They just, they don't, that's not what they do. And that's even more true with, now that they got James Walsh,

and Jonathan Camilla Moses Moody, who hadn't played yet, and everybody was expecting them to be, you know, hoopers this year. So I just don't think they were ever in a situation where they would give up those guys. and that took them out of the sweepstay. I mean, they probably was out anyway because KD is like them plus give me all the picks you got. Like, if I'm sad marks, I'm going around tapping pockets, baby. I'm like, what you got?

What else you got? Give me that watch, too. It's Kevin Durant we talk about. Well, that and the fact that, like, I don't know, man. Like, I think that I know Steph. I know Steph was intrigued for sure. And you know that too. But, like, there's also another side of this, like,

it would be so interesting. and maybe this is why I was intrigued by it because it would be so interesting to see Kevin Durant walk into training camp and walk back into the Bay Area and be like, and like with the complicated relationship he has with the fan base and with the area in general,

with the complication with himself that he has with the Warriors to see how that goes. Like, it's just such an interesting relationship that he has there. So that's why I was thinking, like, you know, like I want to see how he plays this if he does make it happen. if this does work out.

I feel like him coming back would have been such a different paradigm that I feel like all that would have been fine. Like the conversations he had and needed to have with the key principles would have would have changed that whole dynamic. You know what I'm saying? Like so I feel like it was the way to maximize like the stuff. Clay, Draymond Trio. That's what they needed.

Wiggins has helped done that, but they need, like, KD would have been the lock guaranteed this thing is going to ride out into the future, right?

So I felt like it would have been fine. I feel like people would have been happy to see KD in the Bay. You know, I feel like that whole, especially after how Steph played and then what he accomplished

in the finals number of MVP, like the insecurity of, of either side on that situation. They older now. They didn't have been through something. To me, I felt like it would have been, it would have been different. It probably would have been,

had he stayed and they got through five years together. And it's like, and you get through that patched. And then you're like, man, we stamped. We all, you know, everybody know who we are. So I feel like they just got comfortable enough. I mean, you know, some of the conversations that they had before. And the fact that they've been talking, right?

Yeah. Yeah. They're buds. Like they're all buds right now. So I feel like they probably stronger now than they was before KD actually came. You know, it's interesting, man. Like the most, the people that I talk to, I've talked to Steph, Dre, all of those people just about the KD situation. And it's, it's just, it's just interesting because it was like, it wasn't, we can't look at KD and the lens of like what you think a superstar is. Now he is generational. He is a superstar. But like the expectations of what you think it is, it's not that. And what I mean by that is you're expecting if somebody leaves, because the benchmark is LeBron, if somebody leaves you like, all right, buster, like, all right, whatever. But the sense that I got was when I talked to people around, it was like, oh, we just, we understand KD. That's our homie.

He just happened to move out, right? Like that seemed, there was no. There's definitely, not to say there wasn't animosity and there wasn't like, because like there has to be. be animosity for a guy like Steph during this time we're like, bro, like, I flew across the world to come see you during the regular, I mean, during your free agency pitch for you to just tell me, nah, I'm picking Kyrie and I'm going to play with him, right? Like, there was a, there has to be a little bit of something to that. But like, by and large, KD was at the party in New York. When Steph got that record, KD pulled up, you know, like, um, he's, he's rectified his stuff for better or

worse with Draymond publicly, right? It seems like, yo, we know Kevin. He's family, he's family, but he's over there right now. That just seems like the overall vibe with the Warriors relationship with Kevin at this point. Man, the way you often get stronger is to go through stuff together. You know what I'm saying? They went through it. They were always destined to be 45-year-old dudes who, when they get together, it's a great time.

You know what I'm saying? Yes. Yes. Somebody go put on some old song. they're going to all wrap it with their gray beards. They're going to play an S-O-B-R-B-R-R-E-O-Go come out. MCM-S-M-S-M-B-T, Draymond, go play that SOB, and then they just go go go hard.

Exactly. They go, remember, like, they were always destined to be that. When they were good, they were too good together. You know what I'm saying? When they were good, they were, they're too alike in that sense. Like, when it talks about, like, being personable, being, like, and like comfortable enough to be you around people who you feel, you know what I'm saying? Like the versatility of their personalities, they were just always destined to be that anyway.

I felt like that's why I felt like if Kevin stayed, they would have got to the space. And if he left and they were going to get this. But it just because it was just going to happen that way. And that's the difference, I think, between like family and coworkers is like with coworkers, man, you, you put up with what you want to. You know what I'm saying But family You put up with what you have to

You know what I'm saying Like of course Of course Steph was like Bro you really gonna Allow his mom in the air to see you But Also and then like Also this

We also there's another element to that And we had to kind of see that At the Nets game Like The Kyrie Steph dynamic is interesting to me Not to say they They got beef

But they get That they have beef But they go at each other There's a respectful They like each other Yeah They do But what I'm saying, no, for Steph to be like, oh, bro, you're going to go with him?

Like, after like, come on, bro. Like, there has to be, you get what I'm saying? Like, there's another element to that that I feel. Like, I just think Steph knew it wasn't hoop, though. Yeah. I just think Steph feel like he knew it wasn't hoop. Like, it was, it was something else. It was something different.

I remember writing about this afterwards. Like, you know, Steph, Kevin is a person who, like, he just, man, friends just matter a lot to him. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, it. matter. Like people you can ride with matter. That's why people who love, we KD, they love KD. because, you know, people who

like, that stuff matters. And he just, he's just such like a more than just a hooper dude who just think, like, he can go there where he just only think about who, but he didn't complication like, he like people. Like, he liked people who like, like, you know what I'm saying?

So I do, like, they understand about him. Kevin's an interesting figure because we both know him. Like, you know, we both had our ups and downs with them. You know the vibes. But, like, most of his beef with people, it seems like, is that he, like, he wants that human interaction. And if you, like, if you do something he does it, he takes us an affront, like, damn, bro. Like, you, I thought we was good because that's what he's searching for. And I think that that's what he's searching for with, like, that's one thing with the media. But, like, I feel like, I feel like,

You see that also with his last year in Golden State where it was like, yo, man, like, I wanted to be loved in this point. And I don't know if they loved him in that moment the way that he wanted it to be like this, right? Because, like, he always talks about like, I wasn't wanted him. And he knows he's a warrior. He knows that. Like, but I feel like it's, it's he wants to know that you love him at a point, right? Is that fair? I mean, I don't think that's any anything crazy.

I feel like that's most humans. Yeah, but most people, but like, most people don't like, I don't know. Like, he's just willing to say it. Like that. And that's the part that I've always respected about KD. Like, he is willing to be him, even while everybody else is telling him, no, you need to be like a superstar. This is how you should be at him.

He's the most human superstar I have ever been across, bro. Like, like, even, even Steph has this like Michael Jackson, like, or two. Oh, no question. Like, KD is like, yo, I'm going to. one of the guys, what's up? Okay, and like, I'm not going to change. And if you got a problem with that, then you got to adjust.

Like, it's almost like a purpose at this point, right? Like, he just, he, he just, like, he, like, Kevin likes talking to people. He liked talking to people, you know what I'm saying? Like, how many these dudes just don't even like talking to people? You know what I'm saying? They just, they're like, hey, don't talk to.

Yeah. You just don't see him, like, and I ain't even talk about, like, media or me or whatever. I'm just saying you just, watch him. He's talking to humans. If you're a human and you might be a good conversation, you don't talk to you. I feel like that stuff is valuable to him. It matters to him. And the crazy part is like, especially like, like, you know, there and their circle and people who understand like these, these backgrounds is we all know people like that. We all know people

who, like, there's some, there's some familiarity with, like, you know, your family got a Draymond, your family got a Kevin, your family got a, you know what I'm saying? Like, you've dealt with these, these characters. Your family got a clay. You know what I'm saying? Like, these aren't like, they aren't inhuman in the sense that they're outliers for how human behavior works. Like, they're people.

And if you understand, like, like, Draymond, just like how he behaves and how he thinks, it reminds me of my daddy. My daddy was like, in many ways, the same way. Right. Like, that's, that's like, run, run hot. But man, when he loves you, you feel love. Like, when he ride with you, you feel supported, right? You also might have to deal with some rap every now and again, right?

But he makes up forward with how hard he goes for you, right? Like, I know, I know people like that. I know people like KV. So to me, they only kind of confirm their personality and humanity. And that's why it's like, bro, they defy a heartbeat. they go get together at a picnic they go be trying to instead of like doing doing it with Eddie Kay dancing they're going to be running

like a set they're going to be hell of old like all right man remember you who's over here they're going to be reenacting well it's interesting no because like even even though Kevin's with the Nets what does he always respond to warrior shit he always responds to a warrior stuff

always always talks about the warriors I'd be like damn dog like who you play for sometimes because it's always like this to have it while y'all talking about me like this man good job stuff remember that one night after the year after he left there was a random like damien

Lee uh picture on his story like yo man damian lee really that's my dog like the tears at the at the at the KD statue are going to be insane listen you know what you know what me know that they know and like everybody understand in 20 years when we look back

at this the warriors are going to be the bull and you don't want to be like, yo, that was because of me. Like I was, you know what I'm saying? Like, he ain't, he ain't going to want to miss out on his credit in that, like, yo. And it's going to be hell of funny, bro.

It's going to be hell of funny. Because it's not his relationship, not just with the team, but with like the media in the bay. It's like, it's the same roller coaster. It's the same thing. So it's going to be hell of funny, just all encompassing because he's,

it's just going to be like, yo. Listen, Katie, when you watch this, I hope in 20, You know he listening. You know he listening. You know he's going to hear it. I hope in 20 years, like, I hope when you, when you, when your, whatever it is, when your statue pop up and then everybody write how glowing, glowing and loving about you,

I hope you still the same dude who be like, yeah, no, I remember. I remember you. Even say that to me. Even say it to me. Like, don't, don't, yeah. You know, we don't be in the corner. We're going to be in the corner like, hey, bro. We're cool, but we got some shit to talk about, brother.

We got some shit. We got some shit we need to talk about. We need to discuss. That's hilarious. That's all that's all we're saying. You know, it's going to be a lot of tears. He's going to have a lot of tears. He's going to be a lot of tears.

He's going to be part of one of the greatest scenes all the time. Nobody will be able to take that. So when a statue pop, you better be out here with your hoodie on and your beanie. You know what I'm saying? Like, and making that. I don't know who old he'd be going to be. He might turn up to, like, you know, some old swathe figure who wearing, like, suede on time. I don't know who he don't be.

I do wear averick's leather jackets. He's going to do the same thing that he wear right now. I don't know. Nah, he might have to renaissance. He might hit 40 and be different, you know what I'm saying? Oh, no, we'll see. Now, be a, hey, we're going to be at that thing, too. We're going to be at that jersey retirement.

All right, let's get back to this real quick because I got to get you out of here. I want to, I want to, let's get, let's get a little messy. You ready to get a little messy real quick before we get up out of here? Don't do messy. I'm too old. Yeah, all right. I'm going to give you a few names on the Warriors of this current roster, and we're going to both make the case of why they stay in and why they leave in this all off-season. Is that cool? Sure, sure.

All right. First name. I'm going to go with Draymond Green. What's the case for him to stay, and what's the case for him to leave? you can't win a championship without him is the case for him to stay. The case for him to leave, at some point they got to cut some money. They got to cut some money.

If the owner's not going to pay the bill, that's the big chunk of money that is sitting right there and easiest to take off the table. That's the one right there. So that's the case for him to go. If you got to cut $27 million, it's sitting right there ready to go.

Somebody will take it too. But you don't win a championship without Jermont. And also, he's already given you four. So some of that should be honored. Like, you should never have to be going to another team when he's giving you four titles. Yeah, that's fair. But you know, you know, we've discussed why that could not always be the whole story.

Oh, yeah. The other thing, though, the other thing, though, is like he could want to go. That could be he could want he could want something else I mean he has like I mean like I said before Steph is Stefan you said it Bob Myers are the big reason why you stay because there's been times where he's been really pissed off with the organization has been really like

what the fuck am I doing here But um all right next next name James Wiseman The reason to stay is because He's just got so much potential That's just worth seeing through just in case Because if it pop it's a game changer So it's just tough to walk

away from that potential. He like, you know, he's just, he's just like, man, you find that old, you know what he's like, you got, you got like something that's valuable, but it may not, but it might pot, like an old VCR, you'd be like one day, man, people go, this is going to be working a lot, it's going to be a collector's eye, so you just keep it, you know what I'm like? Yeah, and it just collects us in the corner. Yeah, that's Jay's Walser.

It's like, man, one day this dude might be, might be really valuable. You just got to figure out a place to keep that thing without like getting it in a way. So I think that's the reason. So he's just so like all the tools to be a star, modern basketball are there. That's why he's saying. The reason he goes is because it's going to take a while for him to get there. And who got time to wait, Steph Curry is 35. And who got money to pay.

Yeah, exactly. And that $12 million he's on the book for next year. Like if you, if you, I say you decide like, Draymond ain't going to where. Clay ain't going to where Steph they go. You ride them jokes out until they done, until they prove to you that they can't win a championship. And at that point, you got to cut somebody

somewhere and James Wiseman's $12 million look pretty. It's something, right? It's not 27, but 12 is something. This is a wild card, and honestly, I don't really, I've heard just some whispers of like this, that it's not necessarily going to happen. But the fact that I heard this name,

just over the course of this season, season is someone that not even might go, but just like, I just heard his name and I was just interested. Clay Thompson. That's the last name. He ain't going to where? Clay makes $43 million next year.

The reason to stay is because you may get $43 million. And that's a huge contract to move, especially when everybody knows if you decide, I'm moving Clay and everybody know you moving it, you don't have to put some picks with it or something. And at that point, you might as well keep them. The reason of us say is because he's Clay Thompson and he gave me four championships.

And if that means he rides it out, then he rides it out. Like, you're never going to get somebody to give you four championships again. So you honor that and you, like, that's what you do for guys like Clay Thompson. The reason he go is because he might want another contract. And, man, maybe they say the reason he might go is your pool. That's a good reason. Because if you decide, Dremont, is somebody you just simply can't lose.

And Steph is somebody you simply can't. You obviously got Steph locked up. Like Clay is the one you can replace some of his production, some of it. Jordan Poole right now, and you know how I feel about Jordan Poole. Jordan Poole got a lot. He's developed a lot, but he got some stuff that he needs to figure out this season too, man. He's going through a lot of growing pains right now. Y'all need to cut this out, bro.

Y'all need to cut this out with J.P., man. I'm y'all on my nerves. Man, don't, don't do it. Don't, don't. Hey, you don't y'all me. Hold on. You don't y'all me because you know. Because you sounded like them, man.

You said, hey, hey, you said I went to the, you know how I feel about JP. You know where I'm at with JP. Who was the two people? Hey, who was the only two people in the whole area? In 2019, we was just doing it because we liked that he would airball and just like run with so much confidence to the other side of the court. That was the only thing. that we loved in 2019.

And he was there. From Summer League, though. Yeah. Like, you were lying here. Yeah. But he's fine. Like, man, if Jordan Pool was the player who

people think he should be right now, he would be a max player. Like, he would be a next guy. I'm hearing stuff like, I'm hearing stuff like about JP to people that know him. They're not making comparisons to like, like other people in his age group.

Like when they talk about him. I hear coaches talk about, Man, this dude might have a little Bradley Beal in him, might have a little dame in him, right? Like that they, that they, the coaches are still high on Jordan. He need to just cut them quick turnovers out. And he'll be fine. The problem is he's just going, and this is why he gets so much scrutiny. And it's because he is a guy when you're, and this is the same with Wiseman,

a lot of these kids go through these growing pains without the monumental spotlight that the warriors have. Like, it's, it just makes, it makes sense. Like, if Jordan Poole was in Houston, no one would care what he's going. They would just see the 29 or however he's scoring. He's balling. He's the next one up. Right now, though, he has these lofty expectations that he has to go through. And I think that's going to serve him well in the long run.

He'll be fine, but he's going through growing pains right now. And that is a fact. Yeah, he's going through growing pains, but that's fine. Like, to me, that's just normal. Like, Steph went through this. Clay went through this. Like, this is what happens. It's what happens.

It's part of his development process. And yeah, he might be a little arrogant, right? He needs to get his hand together. But that's also what happens when you're 23 and winning championships and dropping 30, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I don't think, and there's nothing abnormal about Jordan Poole's situation. Like, he's got to grow, right? Like, to me, step through the mouthpiece at, right?

You know, because he took the shot, right? Like, you know, many people will say Steph showed up his teammate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? He, he, he, Mario Chalmers is Dean, right? Like, what was Jordan Boo? What was Jordan Boo's reaction? So I'm saying, if we don't ding him for that, you got to give him the credit for when he does something matured and well. He could have taken that the wrong way. Don't disrespect me.

Oh, I was what the old Draymond KD thing was about, right? Like, you know, he could have taken that the wrong way. You know what he did? He recognizes OG. He, you know, went and told a joke with him. They hung it out and, like, that was a mature response. So there are times Jordan Poole is really immature, right? There are sometimes he could probably be irritated.

I can imagine he's very irritating to some people behind the scene. Like, you know the personality type. But you can't dig a 23-year-old for making these mistakes and they did not acknowledge when he actually shows signs of growth. And to me, that was a sign of growth. Jordan Poole is a lot of things that he ain't scared because what he did when he threw that mouthpiece

as a joke to the franchise he did that mouthpiece thing right back to him because we all know that camera's right there he knows that cameras right there when he did that he knew what it was and so like for him to do that

like that was it was weird kudos like step was like all right all right Michelle all right all right it was though right it was though right

it was just like I just feel like that he'll be fine. He definitely has some things to work on, but there is not a single 23-year-old that doesn't. He makes turnovers. Like, that's the journey that he's going to have to deal with.

And like he said, he's doing this on this stage, on this platform, with all these eyes, without the anonymity of losing. And on top of that, he's got to learn it fast. Like, people are like,

hey, now, bro, now. You know what's funny? It's like all the shit that Warriors fans and people excuse Steph for early in his career, now they're seeing that same stuff going on with Jordan Poole. They're seeing the same weak turnovers. They're seeing the weird shots. They're seeing a young kid find himself in the way that they just did. Like, you know the name AC.

Warriors fans know the name AC law, right? Like, at the time, like, Steph was turning the ball over like crazy. Keith Smart was trying to get rid of that interim title and stick on, right? he needed to get every win possible. So he was bitching that dude for AC law. And everybody watching is like, yeah, Steph's turning over, but he needs to be out there playing. Like, why are you bitching him for AC law?

That's what we all put him out there. Like, with the turnover, so what? He got to learn on. It's the same thing for George Boo. Like, you don't get to become this dude without going through this process. And if he did, I'm just saying, like, some players do. But if he, if those players, those players get $50 million.

Like, those players, max players, right? Like, George Boo is not a max player. he's a max for his range, but he's not, he shouldn't be getting Steph money. Like, you know, if he did turn him all over, made shots, shot a high percentage and play defense, he's an all-star starter who's making $50 million a year.

It's crazy to expect that for him. We'll see what happens, man. We'll do this again sometime, man. Thanks so much for coming on. Oh, hold on. I got one there. I got one for you. Oh, what's up?

Oh, you got the one for me. Let's do it. The reason to say, Andrew Wiggins. Andrew Wiggins The reason for him to stay is I think you see that in the postseason last year where he was just that extra just that extra solid dude that you need in a postseason run

right? He is that guy that like he could defend your best player he was shown how much he was needed in a playoff environment when you know when the offense goes into a lull and they need an extra shot you need a guy like that in the postseason all right. The case for him to go, would be, one, it would be too expensive

and Kaminga comes on. If Kaminga comes on, and it's just like that person, then you can maybe trade and shed that. And I think that's the case for him to go. And if Wiggins did go, I'm not saying he is or he isn't, but if he did go, it would be gravy.

You helped us out get our fourth title. You're a warrior for life. We appreciate you, my dog. And it would have to be a trade for something monumentally better. Or a turning into just like this this all-star i think that would that would be the case for him to leave what you think uh excellent way to put it excellent way to put it sir good job thank you sir see man i know a little bit i know a little bit i'm locked in town big y i mean yeah um all right man

thanks so much man we'll get you on pretty soon man talk you soon doces