The Ringer NBA Show - The Latest NBA COVID-19 Testing Reveals No New Positive Tests. Plus: Regular-Season Award Selections | The Mismatch

Episode Date: July 21, 2020

We discuss the most recent NBA COVID-19 testing results, which revealed no new positive tests of players in the Orlando bubble (2:08). Then, we break down whether the four months of training could benefit a team like the Sixers, who are talented but were dysfunctional in the first half of the season (17:06). Finally, we share our choices for the NBA regular-season awards—MVP, Coach of the Year, Rookie of the Year, Most Improved, Defensive Player of the Year, and Sixth Man of the Year (30:30). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. The Ringer's got a brand new show out now about NFL player Cam Newton called The Cam Chronicles. We'll be releasing at new episodes every Monday for the next six weeks, but you can binge all six episodes right now for free on Spotify. Here's a quick trailer. From the Ringer, I'm Tala Rottines, host of a new podcast series, The Cam Chronicles. NFL star Cam Newton has always been a complex figure. Over the past year, I've traveled to Kuald the Korn.

country speaking to coaches and teammates, friends and family, and even briefly to the man himself, trying to unravel the enigma that is Cam Newton. The Ringer NFL show presents Cam Chronicles. Listen to the full series now on Spotify. To The Ringer NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'O. Bomer, A.K. Kevin O. O. Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh. Kevin O'Brien. Burdo. What's going on today, buddy? Well, we got what I would deem great news yesterday, Kevin, regarding the NBA and how the bubble is working.

And at least with the test that they gave on July 13th, the results were as good as they could possibly be. Zero out of 346 players that were tested for coronavirus, came up with a positive test. Now, you and I, we spoke about this at length last week, which was the next week is going to be the huge week. They did it the first week. Two guys tested.

And so what you want to happen is for these guys to be there, to be playing basketball, and we'll see if it starts spreading like crazy, then obviously we've got a big problem on our hands. If 20, 30 guys test positive, they may just call the whole damn thing off. So there was that extreme. where it could be a lot of guys,

and it did get passed around easily. But this is the other extreme, which is you put together a plan, praying it will work, and at least so far, you're not completely out of the woods until games start. And then we'll have a whole other factor when families come in, etc.

But for right now, that's as good a news as you could have possibly gotten yesterday, right? Oh, my goodness. I mean, for there to be zero, zero since then. I mean, that's really remarkable. And it shows just the depth

and thought put into the entire plan. I mean, like, we get a long way to go here, man. I mean, somebody could arrive on campus and, you know, have some false negatives and end up, you know, spreading it. Someone who works for Disney could spread it. You don't know. I mean, anybody could show up and it could happen. However,

the fact is, with the quarantines in place, with the rules in place, this is really encouraging for after that first week for there to be zero when you think about the potential problems moving forward it would have to it would have to be something really some real bad luck for a coronavirus now to get into that so for the NBA to put this together I mean so far bravo to them for having a plan and by the way not just the zero number but a lot of players have spoken you know very nicely about what the league has put together Um, you know, I mean, Stephen Adams jokingly saying it's not Syria yesterday, um, that, that it's

something that they enjoy it. They're living on a freaking resort. A lot of the guys still seem to be having fun. And we'll see how that changes when they're over one month into this. Um, but as of now, it seems to be something that a lot of guys are just enjoying the freedom that they have there to do other stuff. Like, I mean, P players have talked about LeBron James just able to walk around and, and be brawn, you know, people not, you know, going after him and all that. In some ways, it must be kind of nice for the players. And hopefully that test stays at a big zero. Yeah, you bring up a great point about these guys and what their lives are like.

And that this isn't just in some ways a vacation, right, where you go to like Turks and Kegos or something like that and you can get away. This is, they are in their environment that are getting to play basketball. But there are no phone calls for, can you help me out with this? Can you do this today? can you can you make sure I got some tickets right they're all like you would not believe like even like an hour before the game these guys are trying to figure out how to get tickets up to will call for somebody that's in doubt or whatever and they get pulled a hundred million different directions all the time and to your point there's a huge percentage of them especially because of their height um they can't go anywhere anywhere they go even if you're not recognizable people come up to you're and are like, are you in the NBA? Are you a basketball player? And that stinks because then you got to tell them who you are.

Right. And who you play for. But you're right. There's a big stress relief with that. And from me talking to players that are down there over the course of the last week, two things have stood out. Number one, the food has gotten infinitely better that at the very beginning, people like to goof about the food and whatever else.

But that given their choices, I mean, guys that are, I know Del Frisco was one of them. Morton Steakhouse is one of them. Another one brought up to me that they're ordering Ocean Air all the time, which is a restaurant they can order from. And so they said the food is fantastic. And then for the most part, they're able to stress-free do what they want. They go play golf.

They go out fishing. They're going out. A lot of them are playing video games, right? A lot of them are playing video games. I said this like a couple months ago when there were like rumblings of what this could look like. And I remember saying it could it could turn out that for some guys from certain cities where there's a lot of, you know, positive cases for coronavirus could have more things to do at Disney. Absolutely. They would otherwise at home.

And it could be safer. And and that's far. That seems to be the case. Thus far. Hopefully this continues. But I'm, I'm feeling very optimistic more so than I was before about this whole damn thing working. Well, and you and I both, I think, have been optimistic from the beginning of this, you know, hoping that everything can work out just fine. And I'm just a little side note on just where we are in society. And I know everybody is at this high frustration level and you see it every time I get on the internet. But I saw that news yesterday and I was so excited. And I will tell you that I didn't, I didn't even tweet about it because I didn't want to hear the bullshit from people. I'm not kidding. Like I feel like there are.

are people out there that were disappointed that the news was zero of 346 players had, you know, test a positive. I can't believe that that is true, but that is really a feeling that ran through me yesterday. And that is so incredibly disheartening. It just really, it is. I mean, you would hope that everybody would be so excited that this thing is working. But instead, I knew what was going to happen, which was, oh, yeah, well, just wait. you know, you're not out of the woods yet or, yeah, just, I don't, like, I think there were,

there's, there's this weird subculture of people that don't want things to work out well. For whatever reason, they don't want things to work out well. And so there I was, I mean, this is like when the schedule came out, and I was, I was so excited to just think about those games, just to think about all the games that are going to be taking place. And, you know, inevitably, you are met with, oh, yeah, be real excited. They're not playing anything. Or there's somebody that's mad about what they're wearing on the back of the jerseys. Or there's like the Ted Cruz, Mark Cuban stuff. Like, I mean, life to me seems way too short for all this bickering and complaining. And so there was a bit. And it's probably

my fault. But it's just disheartening that I felt like I couldn't even be excited about yesterday. and that news coming through because inevitably the way things are right now, there are people out there that are disappointed that that was great news. Yeah, I mean, there's always going to be people who were disappointed. I didn't see much of the reaction and all.

I reacted to the news after I got the Shams tweet notification. But like after that, I went straight back to writing my article. I was busy all day yesterday. We recorded the restart, and then I went straight to finishing up my article for Wednesday or Thursday whenever it goes up, continuing the power rankings that I've been doing ahead of the restart.

And so I didn't see much of that. But I mean, there's always going to be people who root for things to good things to not work out. There's always going to be people who are Debbie Downers about situations like that. I mean, for me, I feel like I've just, I've chosen to hear that, but also like not let it affect me because it's something that's out of my control. and that's one of the most, this is like a way too serious response to what you're saying. But for me in my life, the last two years or so, leading up to my dad getting cancer last year, I feel like I found myself in a really good place in my life or I just don't at all worry about what's out of my control.

And I don't worry about what's out of the control of others. I only worry about what's in my control. And the reaction, you know, whether it's negative or positive, is just not something that I have any power over. And so ultimately when things don't necessarily go your way or some of responses on what you're expecting, I do everything I can not to let that affect the way I feel and the way I think. And like with something like this, it's like basketball is going to come back and it seems like it's going to work. And a lot of people are going to love it. And I know I'm going to love it, Chris.

So we're going to enjoy that together with a lot of our listeners. And ultimately, like that's what excites me most. It sucks. A lot of people don't see it that way. But ultimately it's like they're going to feel the way. want to feel. And I mean, they have the right to, but I'm going to enjoy it. And I hope it's going to be a powerful, impactful time with all the social justice

that players are moving toward that we've been also hearing about in recent weeks since they got down to Orlando. I think the next three months could be really special for the NBA. Well, and to your point, you saw yesterday, and I mentioned this because it got passed around all through social media. and I would argue that had a much greater platform than if guys weren't playing. Because that was a discussion. You remember, it's something that was considered with the NBAPA, which was, okay, this is being,

you know, should we be going down there and playing, is it worth, does it amplify the platform by being there? Or should we take a stand, not play? and that would be the greatest amplification. And I would say that yesterday was a mark in the, this absolutely amplifies the situation because you saw Tobias Harris use his 59 seconds after he was asked a question to call out the attorney general

and try to bring light to justice for Breonna Taylor and her death that took place. And so you see that? And then that starts getting passed around. It gets passed around. I mean, by the time it's all sudden done, millions of people will have seen that. And how many, how often are you going to be in a spot where something you say can be passed

around at, at that, at that great number to get that message out? I mean, I even saw LeBron retweeting it last day. So, I mean, inevitably, millions of people saw Tobias Harris' media session yesterday. And under what other circumstances are that many people going to hear what Tobias Harris has to say or to bring light to a situation. And so I think on that front, I look at yesterday and say, clearly, that is working. Sure. And I mean, ultimately, the most impactful thing that can be done is policy changes and

actions. But what leads to policy changes and actions oftentimes is putting a spotlight on issues, loud voices using their platforms, people collectively together, pointing at those issues and demanding change. And for the NBA over the next couple months, you know, with Black Lives Matter painted on the court, with, you know, names on the back of the jerseys, with hopefully like some real pointed messages at specific issues out there in the United States and across the world right now, that it will lead to the amplification of these conversations. Even if it's like certain news stations of certain people who are speaking out against, you know, the NBA, you mentioned

the Ted Cruz, Mark Cuban aspect, saying he won't watch basketball if a player kneels or whatever. The fact that a conversation is happening like that, I hope it leads to more positive change, just simply by talking about it, talking through these things. So I think for the NBA, there's a lot of value in that. And same for the WNBA, too. Our writer at the ringer, Jordan Liggins wrote a great story today exactly about we're talking about here about WNBA players using their platforms to bring light to a lot of these issues. And, you know, the WNBA doesn't obviously have the same platform of the NBA, but their

voices are still heard by so many people. And, you know, combined all these sports leagues doing the things that they do when sports is something that so often unites, I can only hope. I mean, this might just be the optimist in me, but I can only hope it changes a lot of minds out there or really focuses the minds of people who are inspires people to go out there and try to change the world and try to do good things for the world to make this whole existence better for everybody. And I mean, if the NBA can be a small or a big part of that, it's a positive either way. Now we get to the real question. These exhibitions start tomorrow. I think there's four games going on tomorrow.

Are you so starved for basketball that you feel? like you will watch a large percentage of the exhibition games that are going to be played. Or do you view this as preseason again and say, I don't really get. It's meaningless. Well, wait a minute. What's the deal with these airing on TV? Like, where can people watch these? Well, between the RSNs, the regional sports networks, NBA TV, ESPN.

Maybe on League Pass? Oh, there's like, yeah, there's like 33 games. that are going to be going on. And they are going to have cameras there. I will tell you this. And look, I am in a small market, Kev, because I got an email yesterday about helping out with the ones

they're running on the Fox Sports Regional here. Like the Grizzies are playing like the Sixers and the Heed and something else. And so I think a lot of them are going to be regionally broadcast. I know a lot of the teams are broadcasting them on their RSNs, the exhibition games. Some of them are going to be

streaming the games, but there are going to be a selection of those games on NBA TV, League Pass, and ESPN, the people are going to be able to watch. I'm just asking to clarify for myself and for the listeners, because, I mean, it's been a little confusing with some of the stuff I've seen with where will air or not. But I also have been super busy the last four days, so I haven't paid quite as much attention. No, they're running them. But, yeah, okay, good. But, I mean, am I starved?

Yes. And I also want to learn and see what some of these teams are doing. Uh, I mean, like, I want to this week's video, uh, on the restart is about the Sixers. I want to see what it looks like with Ben Simmons at the four and shake Milton at point card with the rockets. Darrell Moore talked about Mike Dantonian installing a new set. I want to see what that new set is. What are they going to do besides one high pick and roll in isolations with Hardin and

Westbrook? I want to see it. There's a lot to look for right now ahead of the seating games. And for a lot of these teams, they're integrating new guys, which new skills were added, which coaches are changing their rotations. Even though we're talking scrimmages here, you can still find something of value which could then therefore, you know, impact what happens in the court in the actual postseason. So I'm stoked. I'm stoked for scrimmages. There's a lot to watch from a schematic point of view. Do you buy the Ben Simmons thing? What I'm saying is do you think

that that is something that they will implement and stick with? Because look, they paid out Horford a fortune. They got Tobias Harris. You know, they paid him a billion dollars. I'm cautiously optimistic. Yeah, Al Horford's overpaid. But like right now, forget the money, forget the salaries, forget what they're getting paid. That matters when it comes to team building. But right now, Al Horford on the bench is better for the Sixers, getting away from that three big lineup, having Shake Milton in the starting lineup with his shooting ability. And this is a big component of what the video is going to be about

tomorrow about the Sixers, which you can check out on the Ringers YouTube page. the restart. I feel like for the Sixers, I picked them to go to the finals before the season, Chris, and I was dead wrong about that roster. This is a different team. This is a new season for Philadelphia and for other teams too, considering the changes that they're putting in,

considering Shake Milton's emergence. So I get to see this team, and I'm cautiously optimistic about what I'm hearing. Brett Brown talking about using Simmons more off ball, more as a screener, Simmons talking openly about his willingness to shoot threes. What I've heard about Joel Ambide will really work on in his game the last four months and the reports about him being in better shape.

Just on paper, the structure of the rotations with Al Horford more in that backup center role with Sheikh Milton now running more pick and roll, spacing the floor as a point guard. I have a hard time not feeling a little bit better about what Philly can be in the Eastern Conference playoffs and possibly making a finals run. And it all starts with these scrimmages. and with the seating games and figuring out what this new look Sixers team actually looks like but I mean

that's the main gist of the video tomorrow is you know with like a lot more you know in-depth you know analysis but it's hard not to feel a little bit optimistic about them. That's putting a lot on shake Milton kev I mean you doesn't have minute is it is it putting a lot on shake millen or

is it just like the the restructuring of roles and responsibilities and rotations on the team I don't know if it's solely on shake as much as just like his presence helps elevate Embedd and Simmons. You know what I'm saying?

I feel like that's the way I'm sort of looking at it and maybe it won't work. Maybe Jake Milton will fall off a cliff but I'll tell you what during the season 14 points per game four assists, you know, very efficient from the floor shooting over 60% true shooting percentage, positive assist turnover ratio. He's a damn good player

in three years at SMU and he looked like a damn good player this year with the Sixers. So I'm buying him as at least a solid NBA player. Whether it impacts the Sixers enough, I don't know. But on paper, he puts Simmons in what I view and has a long viewed for him as closer to his ideal role. And it helps him be too.

Yeah, the question becomes, does it, what happens if he'd run? The reason I'm saying a lot on his plate is because you got some really seasoned, outstanding players that he could be up against, even, you know, early rounds. I mean, do you feel good when you're going to the part? with Sheikh Milton against Kyle Lowry, against Kimball Walker,

against, you know, some of these guys that he's going to have to be, I mean, he just doesn't have a lot of minutes. He doesn't have a lot of minutes. We don't have. I might feel good about him. Maybe,

I mean, so are you thinking it's going to be Milton, Richardson, Tobias, and then Simmons Embed? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Starting five.

It's an interesting one against. You seem a bit more skeptical about it. Yeah, I am. Why? I mean, because all, I mean,

like, all the concerns, like I get into in the video For what it's worth, but like, and I feel like a lot of them go without saying, but like, is your concern largely based on a lack of trust in Shake Milton? Or is it still like really the flaws in Ben Simmons as a shooter? The flaws in Joe Ambide as an outside shooter. Is it more based in the star player's weaknesses than uncertainty with Shake and some of the other guys? Oh, no, it is uncertainty with the other guys and putting that on there.

The other thing is Simmons and Embedd. And the other thing is Simmons can create you a real. advantage, you know what I mean, by playing point guard. He can. I mean, I know all of the things he doesn't do. I understand. But the other thing is, are we trying to, like, one of the issues was that it gets, it can get a little bottled up with those two guys. Like, to me, he's more of a problem with Embed than Horford is. If you're talking about the way it can all work, because at least Horford can stand out at the top of the key and has to be on. at the top of the key to knock down a shot. Whereas Simmons, I mean, isn't the issue that he's at his best, five feet from the

basket, as is Embed? I mean, that's where these two guys are at their best. And so I'm packing them in. Now, I mean, at least I've got them spread out. I understand the point guard, you know, sags off him, you know, and does not respect his shot. But he's found the way like Janus, like some of these other guys, to. figure out that if you back off of him, he uses that as a running start to get going and still

can get where he wants to go on the court. And again, I don't know. I guess I'm not as down on him because, I mean, there's a freaking miracle shot by Kauai. I know they don't have Jimmy Butler. I worry about, I just worry about anything they have on the perimeter. They don't have Jimmy. They don't have JJ Reddick. Their perimeter guys aren't good enough. They just aren't. Yeah. They're not good enough. Without Jimmy Butler, I mean, people forget. He was really great in the postseason last year. Yes. I mean, he was the whole reason they had a chance in that game seven,

why it came down to that, you know, horrific moment for Philadelphia fans and, you know, just glorious moment for Toronto fans, um, was largely because of Jimmy Butler. But to your point, Simmons and a beat, it's not like they were awful.

It wasn't all Butler last year. Those guys were really good too. Um, and they started to figure some, they figure some things out in the post season. But, you know, like I said,

with Philly, the concerns and the flaws remain the same. Can they have enough shooting? Is Ben Simmons actually going to be effective as a shooter? Would Joel Embed be more of a threat from the perimeter? Is Al Horford going to be back to Al Horford? Or is he going to look like a total shelf of his former self still? All these questions remain the same.

But the structure here is a bit better. And I'm excited to see how it actually works out on the court. And I guess we'll find out with those scrimmages this week. When's their first game? I mean, they have Friday versus Memphis, right? Yeah, they're big. They have a lot of talent. And as we said, the beginning, we'll see what all these guys look like.

They feature one of the guys that you could foresee at least it is not likely, but at least there's a chance that they could have the best player for a series in a series against Janus. Like, it's out there. It's a possibility that that could take place. And that is just not true. It is hard to imagine some of these. teams having the best player on the court in a series, you know, that features Yonnes. But you could see over the course of a series, M. Bid, you know, being the best guy.

He's got that level of talent. We all know that. His problem is not talent. His problem is, does he bring that every night? Do you get the great Joelle M.B. As consistently as you want it. And the answer to that has been no. But if you did over six, seven games, I mean,

we know he's got that in him. He's easily one of the four or five best players in the league. His peak is as good as anybody, seriously. Like when he's at his best. No, 100%. I mean, Joe Al-Lambide at his peak is that level of a player. We've seen flashes of that over the years. I think this season, that big game he had against the Atlanta Hawks

after all star break comes to mine. And yeah, it's Atlanta. They're not in the postseason, so whatever. But it was just a truly dominant performance in every way for him on both ends of the court. And for Embed, that's a big component of why I'm high on them. Like, Embedd is somebody who has gotten better every year of his career. And you think about four months away from the court. I mean, it's hard for me.

not to think some guys got way better over this time away. I mean, all the talk has been about like, oh, Yonis didn't have access to a hoop. Some guys had to buy a basketball goal at home. And I'm like, yeah,

but what about the guys that spent the last four months working on their games, just like they normally would from like May playoff loss to late September training camp? And Bid is one of those guys who consistently has gotten better. I mean, he has become a dominant force in the post. And after the all-star break, he was facing up away from the rim,

bit more, too, than he normally does. So I'm excited and intrigued by what Joelle and Bede could look like during this return here. He also got his heart ripped out last year. Yep. You know, and there's always those guys. Everybody, you know, takes their lumps. They walk away broken after a series.

And it's like the motivation that some guys get from that coming back the next year, we just saw where Damian Lillard got over the hump last year. I mean, he had taken his lump, sometimes first round, you know, heartbreaks. Obviously, it happened in Oklahoma City. But there's that moment where Ambide is bawling, walking off the court last year that is burned in our minds, you know, after Toronto. And so he got that, he got his first dose of, I left it all out on the court, I gave it all, and it wasn't enough. And now it's proving time, right? you get that crack again.

And so there's a lot of times where guys come back with a vengeance after they get their heart ripped out like that. I didn't make that point in the video. I should have talked with you ahead of time. It's a good point. I mean, it's a great point. It's a great point. This is a team that has already experienced heartbreak. And historically look at champions a lot of the time, that's what they have to go through.

Oh, yeah. In order to get through it all. I mean, you don't see a heck of a lot of teams that win on the first try or players that went on their first try. guys lose before they win. And Philly is one of those teams that Embed is their best player. And Simmons is like right there with him. But Embed to me right now is closer

in these current circumstances to being that top five guy, which you need to win a championship. And he gives them a chance that they're able to put the right surrounding pieces around him to elevate him in addition to all the moves that he's making that are in his control and with the work that he puts in and the focuses that he has on the court. like I said at the top, man,

I have a hard time not feeling good about the Sixers. We'll see if that is founded, you know, in truth, you know, or whether that's just me being an optimist here with the idea of Shake Milton. But I like what I'm here and out of Philly right now, heading into the scrimmages and the seating games. Hey, Chris, wait a second. Before we move on, I have to tell the listeners about today's sponsor. FanDuel.

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West Virginia visit 1800 gambler.net. And now, back to the mismatch. One of the pieces of news that has broken since we last talked was, was that the NBA made the decision for the awards to be based on the season up to the point that it was delayed. So March 12th was the number and that they're not going to take into consideration what happens in these last eight games and whatever may happen in a postseason, as it were. So what do you think? Do you think that that is a good way to do these awards? Do you think that that is going to be a proper representation or the fairest representation of what was the 1920 NBA season when we look back on it?

I think it's the right move. I do. What's happening right now with this restart here feels, it feels like a new season in many ways for me. It's a continuation of the 2019-20 NBA season, but in many ways it feels like a new year. and I do think that recency bias is one of the realest things out there when it comes to voting. And you would see a lot of recency bias, possibly you'd possibly see a lot of recency bias from voters. And I'm not saying that I'm not, I'm not, you know, immune to it either. You know, it can happen to me too.

Like if, you know, LeBron has an amazing last eight games and Yannis barely plays, I mean, who knows? That could change the way people vote for MVP. If Zion had played and he puts up like 35 points a game and Jha, you know, sits a couple games because Memphis has a lead. I mean, who knows? That could change the way voters played. Zion's not there, so it's beside the point. But I think the truest representation of the season would be having the votes occur before the seating games and not factoring in what happens in those games.

And so I hope, I mean, we'll find out more details this week from the NBA. But my understanding is those ballots will go out sometime over the next week ahead of the seating games, just like it would be during a normal season when votes are due. before the postseason starts. That's what I would expect to happen before the scene of games. What do you have votes for? I believe I have votes for everything. I'm not sure if the process

will be different this year, but my understanding is that I'll have my ballot like I have the last couple seasons. What was it, three seasons? I don't know how many years I've been in here at the ring or now. So do you want me to just tell you

who to vote for? Yeah, let me know. I mean, we'll see, I'm not, I haven't finalized my ballot yet, but I feel good about what I have.

I'm about to finalize it for you. Okay, Thanks. I appreciate it. MVP's easy. That's Yonnes. Yep. Yep.

Okay. I understand. Yeah. Coach of the year. I'll move to that. I'll say Nick Nurse. Nick Nurse. I have Nick Nurse, Billy Donovan, Taylor Jenkins in my top three at the moment.

In consideration, Eric Spolstrom, Michael Malone, Frank Vogel. And I'm going to say this. Nate McMillan also deserves a look, too. There have been a lot. Look, there have been a lot of great coaching jobs. coaches get crapped on all the time. You know, it's so thankless. Like how many guys really get there just desserts?

Like even if you end up winning, they say, oh, yeah, well, he won with and it'll be, you know, insert the great player. And if you don't win with the great player, it's your fault, right? But there have been a lot of great coaching jobs, I think up and down. It's hard to go by. That team is, that team is very underwhelming because of. of who their coach is. Like, that's hard to find. Seriously.

The Bulls are underwhelming because of who their coach is. That's what I would say. But I think, like, there's not a ton of those teams that I think they are an indication that they were not coached to their, to maximize the abilities of their roster. Most of the teams that suck have crappy rosters, right? And news flash, nobody wins with crappy rosters. Um, that being said, for what it's worth, I, I left off the page. Doc Rivers also in consideration, whole new roster, uh, and making that work as well as I

have with load management and everything else. Um, so doc on that list too. And Nate McGarland should be right. I should add him to in consideration for that second or third spot, but, you know, Nick Nurse is going to win it for me. Yeah. I think there's a bunch of them. Uh, most improved.

The one that came to my mind immediately was bam. This is a tough one, man. Because most improved, you can look at so many different ways. I don't even have a top three right now in consideration. Bam, Luca, Brandon Ingram, Jalen Brown, Pascal Seaccom, Domanta Sabonis, Jason Tatum, Tateum, Trey Young. A lot of guys, and I'm probably leaving some off that deserve consideration for most improved. And so much of this vote depends on how you look at it. How you view the award. Is it a guy making elite from good to great, from great to superstar,

or is it a guy that went from average to very good? I mean, it's all about perception with this award. So I'm more than anything else, I'm curious to see how the vote goes for most improved. Because for me, like, this is sort of a toss up in terms of perception about the award and with who actually deserves it.

And I know it's not out of nowhere, but the BAM thing felt like he really ascended to a different level where people were writing about it. People were talking about him. Yeah, but I get it. He was really good the year before too. he also became an all star and he played and he played like 10 more minutes per game right i mean like

bam did get better he was good the year before he just didn't play as much so i mean it's the type of thing where like it's it's really hard with with this award here uh because again it depends on how much you what what you perceive of it i'm probably gonna have i'm gonna have bam in my top three it's just a matter of if he's first second or third rookie of the year's this you win because Zion only played like 19 games, right? Who's third? Who's third? None. I would say. I have none too. That's what I have.

And then in consideration, his teammate hero. Yeah. I was trying to think we did what there be. But none is third in my book. Yeah, I was trying to see if there is there anybody else that would, that we are just overlooking completely. I don't think so. I mean, those seem, those seem pretty firmly. I mean, one, two, three. Just to throw out the names for my all rookie team.

team those three we just mentioned brandon clark eric paskell tyler hero matisse stival terrence davis p j washington then a couple other guys in consideration ruy hatchamora r j barrett white dort i mean there's yeah i mean i don't think any of those other guys belong in the rookie of the year conversation none is third yeah but we it is good rookie production yeah it was a lot of good rookies a lot of good rookies brandon bernan clark and eric pascal especially i mean i feel like their years have been underrated and over and over booked. Yeah.

Pascal, because he's playing on a team that wins no games. And obviously when you, I mean, I see it every day. You're just, you're dwarfed by the John Morant phenomenon. You know what I mean?

And Pascal, Pascal has shown himself to be a guy that can fit when Steph and Clay come back and Draymond's, you know, playing as well. Pascal can fit with those guys and be somebody who produces. They found a nice rookie in him. Yep.

The other thing I did want to mention, for Most Improved that you didn't have on there, which I thought was interesting, was Frank Nile Aquina. You didn't have that on there. It was Most Improved. No? Well, he needs a new team. I just thought it was interesting that you didn't have him on there. Frank.

He needs a new team first. Oh, is that right? Oh. He needs a new team. All right. Defensive player of the year. I mean, this is one that you've got the usual suspects. Every year,

Draymond's not going to be in it. Kauai is not going to be in it because of lack of games. And those guys are typically there at the very top. But there has been a Janus push. There has also been Gobert, who, you know, I mean, consistently has great defensive metrics and is certainly an anchor defensively for what is a team that had a very good record this year.

Anthony Davis said at the beginning of the year, he wanted to win defensive player of the year. So I'm interested if you've got him towards the top of there. This one is one that I would not fight greatly over. I think you can go a couple different ways, reason. I have Yonis first right now. But I mean, AD, Gobert, Ben Simmons, Kawhi Leonard, Bam, Atabio,

Jimmy Butler. I mean, there's a handful of other guys that could be in the top three. But for me, like that first place spot is between probably Janus and Ad. And I'll likely go Yonis. Yeah.

I do wonder if AD, you know, I know there's been a LeBron push either it was before the season ended. For MVP? For MVP, yeah. And you saw, you saw LeBron kind of acknowledge it yesterday,

you know, with his, people wondered what was going to happen if I went to the West. Well, here I am in the West and look what's happening. That being said, if you line up the numbers, Davis's numbers are just extraordinary, truly. And you wonder, do they split votes?

Does Davis even get the credit he deserves, you know, or does he go the way of so many, you know, former LeBron teammates where it's like, you know, you're not going to get. It's the Scotty Pippin effect, right? It's like Scottie Pivitt could have been one of the great players in the entire NBA, but he was chronically underpaid and he was not on lists as high as he would normally be if he were of been out of the shadow of Jordan.

Is there an argument for LeBron to win MVP over Yanos? I think that a lot of it is wanting to reward. board LeBron because in the end when you look at it, people are going to say, you know, you get a lot of that. He's the MVP every year. Forget that part. Forget that part. He's the MbP every year.

Forget that he's LeBron James, a guy that has done all that he has. Yeah. It looks solely at the guys producing this year. You know, player A, player B. In that case is forget all the perception aspect. Player versus player, is there an argument for LeBron? over Yannis. I think there is, and I wouldn't fault somebody, including me.

I mean, I'm not discounting the possibility of voting LeBron as MVP. You talk about a guy, he carried that offense. He was the sole reason that offense had so much success. You take him off that team. The Lakers aren't in the postseason. You take Yannis off the Bucks. That team is still really good. They're still in the postseason.

The Bucks have a stronger, deeper roster overall than the Lakers do, which is why overall there's an argument to be made that the bucks should be the number one favorite here, not the Lakers of the Clippers, because they have a stronger overall roster. So we've argued about this before. I don't agree at all. I mean, look, look, I'm likely going to go to go yada. So making that clear, I'm just, I play devil's advocate with myself a lot here. And with LeBron, there is an argument for him. Okay.

Here's a thing. You can do the whole run it all down with the roster thing, and we've argued about that before. That team without Janus is also not some kind of great team. They also do not have a top five player in the league. And that matters when it's a guy that can stay healthy and he's playing 35, 40 minutes a night. Like it doesn't matter who your 15th guy is if you've got a top five guy in the starting lineup alongside you.

And so I get it, right? Maybe top to bottom depth. I would rather have the Bucks 12th guy than the Lakers 12th guy. But number one and number two, like there is a massive gap. And all due respect to Chris Middleton, it's not even, it's not the same hemisphere as AD. Like in terms of if I put Chris Middleton on another team, like, AD has at least been the best player on teams that have make the playoffs. And those were crap rosters built around him. The few times that he even had a few other guys,

he did make postseason appearances and played great in the postseason against the Warriors in the first round. They knocked off Portland, a team that ended up making the Western Conference Finals, you know, not too soon after. I just, like, I mean, if you're on the, if you're on the court regularly with another top three or five MVP candidate, like to me what Janus did is is more impressive.

And the numbers are the numbers. It's one of the historically best offensive seasons ever. And he's arguably a defensive player the year. He could be one of the few players on league history to win both. It was a special season for Janus. Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying LeBron also had a really incredible year too. Yep.

And so Dan James Hardin and Luca Don'titch and a handful of other guys are going to find themselves in that MVP vote in the top three top four top five any award that we missed was that all of them i think that's all of them right six man of the year in my top two it's going to be in no order i'm still deciding dennis shrewder from okay c and montres harrel from the clippers oh i like those so you give montra's uh the uh the lou williams love right because he Lou Williams is in the mix or winning it feels like every single year, it'd be unbelievable if a guy on his own team ends up winning sixth man of the year when,

I mean, they are kind of co-sixth men for that Clippers team, right? The Shruder one is interesting for sure, because he deserves, I think, a tremendous amount of credit for what he did this year. Van Vleet started to, many games. I mean, he was a starter for the majority of the year this year. Anybody else?

Just a couple names in like in consideration list and there's missing some here too. George Hill, Derek Rose, Dr.ajich, Lou Williams, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Davis-Bertans. I mean, just some other names out there. They're not going to crack my top too. But

they're on the list for that third spot. I like, the Dragich name. I do. I think that's a good one. I mean, I feel like a lot of those guys, whether it's Rose or Dragetch or Bogdanovish, there's a handful that could be deserving at that third spot. Okay. That being said, and speaking of Bogdanovich is the one is on that Sacramento team that has just, I mean, this is a team that was playing well going into this. They're a team that could be dangerous, especially with two games against the pelicans could be dangerous. It could make up some real ground against teams above them if they played at a very high level.

At first, they get the news about a sprained ankle for Deerrin Fox and then just crushing news yesterday with Marvin Bagley, who I certainly have a much higher opinion of than you do. But I think we both agree that this kid has had the absolute worst. luck. He played less than half a season his rookie year. This year, it's going to be, you know, if he can't come back and play in this thing, I think it's 13 games that he will have appeared in. And you got another foot injury, which foot injuries for big guys are always terrifying. And so when you saw that news come across the wire yesterday that Marvin Bagley had injured his foot and was going to have an MRI, there's a guy that really reshaped himself too because he had looked. like he had really packed on a lot of muscle.

And somebody that was, of course, really looking forward to getting to play, you know, like needed that time to get fully healthy and to make something of what has been a totally lost season for him. And now it just looks like, here we go again. And I think if you are the Kings, I mean, it's all compounded with the fact that Aiton, Sharon Jackson, Luca Donchich, Trey Young,

all those other guys that were drafted in the top five not only have worked out, they've worked out famously for the teams. And then you have Bagley, who I loved, and I still love, but I can't deny,

this is, this is a bad, bad deal when you're talking about can't even, I mean, the first two years in the league and can't even get on the court. It's disappointing.

Disappointing. And hopefully, that team was going to be, fun to watch too. Not looking fun right now, unfortunately. If they don't have Fox and they don't have Bagley? I mean, there's still some fun guys. Buddy Hill, Bogdan Bogdanovich, but without those other guys, I don't like their

shot, their odds of making the postseason. As we close this out today, we do have to say goodbye, Kevin. We are known as the producer killers. We go through them so very quickly. And Bobby Wagner has informed us that he quit the mismatch. He said via text yesterday, I am sick of you guys and your crap and I'm leaving. And I'm not telling you where I'm going, but I sure as hell won't work another podcast with you. And it was tough to hear, you know, but frankly, it's the same text we've gotten from 10 producers at the ringer, Kev.

You guys should have gotten out ahead of this And gone all David Blatt on me Oh, is that right? And just dumped me before I dumped you guys Too late Look, hey, look Should it take the cues from Dan Gilbert, Chris If there is one thing me and Kevin are used to

It's being dumped And so now what? Who we get? They're going to drag Isaac back in here That's what we're doing? Going to get a second try Oh In the twilight of his career

Maybe it'll be like Mike Dantone going back to the Knicks after he doesn't deliver to the Rockets. I got to tell you now I feel a little bad for crapping on him on his way out. You know, I didn't think I was going to see him again. No, thank you so much for all your help. Bobby, we're not

going to make any announcements, but you got big things in store for you and your career. So we're super excited for you. And I do, being honest, I hate losing you here because it has been super fun over the course of the last couple of months working with you. It has been as easy as any of these things can possibly be. Yep. I'm going to miss working with you every Tuesday and Friday, Bobby. It's been

a pleasure to do the mismatch with you. You've always been someone who, especially with the mailbags, you're funny and insightful. And you add so much to the conversation and make this show sound better than it is when we record it live. And you're somebody I trust and somebody that I'm excited for moving forward with this podcast to be announced later. It's great for you, Hero of Us of the Ringer. I'm excited for you, man. Thank you. Thank you for everything. If you were, and obviously we are, we're saying this because we have an awareness that all of the lost files and all the crap that you have to edit out every single week probably still exist on your computer. And if you wanted to blackmail,

us. We know that is a real possibility. And so we love you, Bobby. Please never get us canceled by society. And we still expect those to be thrown in the trash. The lost tapes. You guys are too good. Too much. Well, I appreciate it. You guys have been a delight to work with.

And it's been just as easy for me as it has been for you guys. I'm going to miss 10.30 p.m. Pacific time on Thursday nights rolling around and be remembering that I forgot to pull together the mailbag questions for the next morning. But other than that, we'll be good. So thank you guys. I really appreciate that. You guys are making me blush. This has been fun too. I mean, look, we have had, look, A, no basketball and B, we've been in a freaking quarantine. And we still, like, but we've had each other at least. And now you're leaving us. As soon as we get freaking, hey, as soon as we get freaking, hey, as soon as, as we get basketball back. He says, I'm out of here. You know what I was thinking about this morning is that I'll actually be able to watch like a big NBA game the night before and think like, I don't have to record an emergency episode right now. I can just enjoy the game for a sec. Yeah, it'll be fun.

That'll be great. Kevin, I will talk to you on Friday. Thanks to everybody for listening. As always, give out that mailback. Send us some questions at NBA mailbag at gmail.com. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, buddy. Talk to you on Friday.