The Ringer NBA Show - The Luka Trade Aftershocks Keep Coming. Plus, the Most Intriguing Post-Deadline Questions. | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos are here to discuss the latest news coming out of the Luka trade and the Mark Williams trade being rescinded (18:52). Then they each bring two questions they have after the trade deadline (29:33). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck because every episode of The Rwatchables and The Big Picture, now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer Movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables,

as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving Ringer personalities. Search Ringer movies on YouTube and Experience the Joy, Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera. Welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me to guys who wish they had the work ethic of Shaquille O'Neal, Rob Mahoney, Bigwas. Guys, the Luca trade. It just keeps going and going and going and going and going and going.

I don't recover on personal time, only on company time famously. You know, it's just not my problem to have to spend my vacation post-surgery. And so I'm following in Jack's footsteps, as all of us should do, frankly. Yeah, I can't believe the amount of news that's come out even in the wake of the Luca deal. We thought we were done like about a week ago with some of the ramifications, some of the aftershocks. But just this weekend, we got 80's debut. We got 80's new injury that's going to keep him out a couple weeks.

We got the MAV's owner coming out trying to defend the trade and ultimately staking his foot in his mouth. We got the Mark Williams trade rescinded. I'm probably missing four other things. We got Anthony Davis on a TBI. show doing pranks? When did that happen? It's just a mess.

Wads, are you following all this? Can you wrap your head around all this? Yeah, man. The quotes coming out of Dallas management, definitely, that was an eyebrow raiser for me, just in a sense that there's no reason for ownership or management to directly crush the team. That's what you have your minions in the media for.

Excuse me, former players, right? That's when everybody does their notebook dump or as Bill says, like, oh, now you tell me, a situation. You can just cleanly do that. You know, it goes with anonymous sources, and everybody gets to keep their hands clean. Everybody gets to sell their story. Boom, we move on.

But the idea that you would come out and put your name to disparaging quotes of Luca Donchich and point out, like, other generational type of players that he's not like is, I don't know, that was strange to me. A.D. having the first half of his life immediately followed by a weird injury was just like, my God. Just crazy. Just craziness. Let's catch some people up, though, because if you were not reading the Dallas Morning News over the weekend that had these quotes from Patrick Dumont, who's like the operating governor of the MAVs for all intents of purposes, this is what he said. In my mind,

the way teams win is by focus by having the right character, all bold, the right character, by having the right culture, and having the right dedication to work as hard as possible to create a championship winning outcome. And if you're not doing that, you're going to lose. If you look at the greats in the league, the people you and I grew up with, Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Air, you know, neon signs, shack. They worked really hard every day with a singular focus to win. And if you don't have that, it doesn't work. If you don't have that, you shouldn't be part of the Dallas Mavericks, end quote. Not a good quote. Not a good way to follow up. I would say the overall tone deafness in Maverick's leadership following the Luca Donchage deal, like a group that just clearly does not

understand the magnitude of what they have done and what they are continuing to do. This was a trade that, among other things, shouldn't have been made. If it was going to be made, should have been made in a better way. If it was going to be made in the way that it was, should have been messaged a lot more clearly as to why it was happening and why it was defensible. And the fact that this was a significant moment that the Mavs took seriously, I don't get the impression, Justin, that this was something that was taken as seriously as it should have. Just based purely on the fact that every Mavs official, Nico Harrison and now Patrick Dumont

first and foremost, who has gone on record after the fact, seems to have no idea what they are talking about. They almost had a cogent response to what happened here, whether or not you agree with it or whether it makes sense logically in the NBA sense of like player for player, trade value, all that other stuff. They almost had it. Jordan, Bird, Kobe. It's like, oh, okay, classic hard workers who made the most of their talent.

And then Shaquille O'Neal, perhaps the shining example in sports, not just an NBA, of a guy who didn't make the most of it. If anything, he kind of coasted and just had a good life, which more power to him. That was Shaq's whole deal. But Shaq, unfortunately, for anybody who has actually watched the NBA or even knows about sports in the past three decades, would know that that is his entire MO. And so, man, I really want to give them, like, try to find, like, the logic to all this stuff, but it's coming damn near impossible. Just to stay on the Shaq point just for a little bit longer because of the parties involved, Nico Harrison, Kobe, relationship, all of that stuff.

Basically, the thing that stuck a knife through the Kobe and Shaq partnership was Kobe feeling like him having to constantly defer and kowt to Shaq. as the guy, the big dog in the offense, and thereby in the team and in the organization, even though he's constantly coming to camp, overweight, out of shape, playing himself in the shape. And Kobe's looking to himself like, man, I bust my butt to make sure that I'm ready for this team. And this guy gets to coast,

and we still, like, treating him as if he's the most important person here. So there's that. And then there's the direct quote from Shaquilone himself where I forget the year. but he had, I think it was a toe injury. He had an injury of some sort that he didn't get surgery on a rehab in the offseason because, quote,

So I'm talking about. I'm not getting surgery and rehabbing on my time. I got hurt on company time. I'm going to get the surgery and rehab on company time, meaning during the season. He spent a whole offseason chilling, not managing his body. Because he said,

this was basically like a workman's comp situation. here that he didn't think he should be doing in his free time. That was the Shack that we knew. So tough,

tough quote by Mavs management there. I would say even this read that we're giving it by talking so much about Shack is quite generous

because Michael Jordan got the fuck after it. Larry Bird, not a stranger to having a beer in his hand, right? These are guys

who lived in their respective ways. And if we're pointing at Luca Donchich and saying that guy's not doing enough, Look, fair enough on the conditioning front, not someone who's showing up into camp in shape,

as we've alluded to with the shack parallel, but also not alone in terms of NBA superstars who are living a little bit. And if you are this dominant while doing, if you think this little in the eyes of Patrick Dumas and Nicco Harrison or whoever with the Mavericks, who thinks Lucas should be doing more, all the more impressive that he's able to do the things that he did.

I think what sticks out to me with the Kobe Shack thing in retrospect, even more so than in present tense was all of those things you said are true was and the frustrations from Kobe are well-founded as far as like this guy is showing up out of shape he is rehabbing on company time he isn't putting the work in that I'm putting in and guess what? Shack was still significantly more dominant

than Kobe at that point in time and sometimes that's just what it is. Luca is Luca is Luca, Shack is Shack. Maybe these guys could make more of it, but they're still amazing in the form that they're in. Also, the juxtaposition where he said this I believe the same day or the day after, Anthony Davis shows up in a shirt promoting his new prank show. I can't say this enough to be like Anthony Davis is the shining example of someone committed to their craft,

but then simultaneously promoting a prank show like he's Ashton Coucher for the NBA. First of all, like, how did this even happen? Who had the idea that Anthony Davis was like the charismatic host of anything, let alone like a comedy? like skit thing starring like the D list of NBA players. I saw D'Angelo Russell. I saw Terrence Mann getting pranked in a future. Shout to Terrence man.

Yeah. He's on, where is he? He's in the Hawks now. So, so yeah, there's a real come up for him happening here. It just, it just doesn't make sense. But I have to say, I've enjoyed all of this because just trying to wrap your arm around this has been really fun. Justin, how do you feel about a prank show?

Awful. No. No, I don't crank. No, what we're doing? Whoopi cushions? I will never flip a channel faster than when impractical Jokers is on. With all due respect,

you know, those guys are doing their thing. Clearly, there is an audience for it. Clearly, it is on reruns all day long. And if I'm stuck in a hotel room, I can guarantee you it's on somewhere. But I will not be part taking it personally. I mean, I'm sure I indulge in a pun. back in the day. Like,

that was on rotation when you watched MTV 24-7. But I don't know if it works the same with Anthony Davis and then with like guys you've never heard of before. If you're just like a mom and dad at home on your couch on Friday afternoon or whatever this is. Or we're going to find out, I guess.

Maybe it'll be a smashing success. Yeah. Well, one thing I do think this did was we spent a lot of time like just wondering what the hell happened to get us to this point where Luca was traded. I think the interview that Dumont did did clarify things, at least for me. They just thought Luke is a dick. They just didn't want to work with them. They thought he's a leasy dickhead and they're just like sick of dealing with them.

And so they sent him off. And the problem is these are guys who are by and large coming into the NBA pretty fresh. The owners are new to the NBA based on like what within the past year, I believe. And then Nico Harrison obviously comes from a Nike background. Just not used to having to tolerate the shit that Luca Dodges put them through. But it seems by and large, they were just sick of him. And that's what happened. Yeah, and that would make sense, honestly, when you think about it,

these people come from the worlds of business where your subordinates whose checks you sign are just not allowed to behave the way that NBA stars generally are allowed to. Again, and so Nico Harrison comes in with what we feel like as a hairbrained idea. And he has justifications for it. And the bosses are like, look, if they're not used to the NBA and not used to this kind of behavior from, you know, the stars that drive winning, they're going to be like, yo, you know what, you're right.

Let's get somebody in here who's more subordinate to the things we want to do. Who's more obedient. Who's more willing to bust this hump for the company. And so, you know, again, they're wrong. But it's not hard to see how they came to this conclusion. Yeah, I'm not immune to the appeals of culture for the record. Like team culture, I think, is actually a pretty tangibly important thing. But maybe what's more tangibly important is having Luca Donchich on your team.

And at some point, you just have to prioritize what you have and the unique talent you have available within your organization over, oh, this is my dream to march a bunch of Kobe's out there. Like, I salute you. And if that's the way you want to go, by all means, I just, I don't think it's a very good way to run an NBA team. Yeah. Stars have different roles. I learn that more than anybody doing this podcast. with you guys. But Anthony Davis did have a rousing debut in the midst of all this, or at least the first

three quarters of which, 26, 16, 7 assists, three blocks, had the best six minutes, opening six minutes of his career probably against the Rockets the other day. I'm like, oh, I can see this now. Like, at the very least, whatever is left with the Mavs are going to be good. Fortunately, middle of the play, just starts grabbing. at the groin area. This is a guy who's had multiple adductor strains in the past. And as soon as he did that, first of all, it was non-contact, but also he was grabbing, let's just be frank at his junk at this point. And it seemed pretty clear to me that that was what was happening.

I don't know where you go from here. Like, I've tried to defend at the very least, like what was left with the Mavs and thought that he could at the very least be a, like a competent team in the Western Conference race. But without him, with Caleb Martin on the shelf as well for two to three weeks, I just don't know what to do at this point. Well, Waz, I feel like we haven't talked about this part of things enough. There's been a lot of conversation about how great Luca is, how unique a talent, he has, what he's accomplished.

And we kind of just zoomed right past measuring injury risk against injury risk. Yeah. And I think that's in part because a lot of us have so much respect for what AD has done over the last calendar year where he's coming off the healthiest and a lot of. always the best season of his life. And I personally wanted to believe that that was the guy he could be. But historically, it's just not. Yeah, that was the tougher.

Again, this was the tougher part. One of the tougher parts of the cell job that Mav's ownership and front office had to do is decided that, like, yeah, we're worried about guys not being on the floor. And nobody's ever accused AD of just not, like, working hard enough to be in good enough shit. He's always been a well-conditioned guy. For sure. Good-looking guy.

But, like, he's had trouble staying on the floor. And traditionally, and the last two seasons, it's been much better before this most recent injury. But his history and totality is one of a guy who misses a lot of games. And so it's just like, man, it's not like you're trading for some Iron Man here, you know, to solve some of these problems. You're trading for a guy who's been known, man. Like, he has a propensity to have these nagging, lingering injuries all the time.

And so the fact that it really. reared his ugly head in his first game in your uniform, just a tough, tough break for them. Yep. So before this season during his Lakers tenure so far, he had missed an average of 24 games a season. He's, if, you know, assuming he's going to be out roughly a month with this adductor strain, which it seems like that's the early projection. And honestly, it could be more. These things do linger.

We just saw the effects of what can happen if you try to rush back maybe a little bit too quickly from an initial strain. So it wouldn't be surprising if they end up holding him out even longer than that. he's going to end up right around that kind of low 20s mark again. And that's not even factoring any other potential injuries he could have throughout the rest of the year. So this is just kind of what he is. And when he's on the floor, he's one of the best players in the world, but too often he's not. And during this stretch of games where the Mavericks are going to have to win a lot in order to kind of secure some playoff positioning or even play in positioning, they're going to have to do that without Anthony Davis.

They're going to do that without the centerpiece of the deal, even though Max Chrissy's out here balling out. of the Luca Donchage trade. Yeah, and credit to AD, he did seem like he met the moment. Like, we talked a lot about how Luca was going to play with revenge and his heart and, like, what a terror he could be for the Lakers. We'll see that. I think he's supposed to go tonight on Monday after we record this. But AD seemed like he was on a bit of his own.

Like, y'all forgot about me sort of run there. Played inspired in a way that I hadn't seen him before. Just seemed like AD plus a context built around him was primed to see the best version. of ID, but like, we'll see how much we get of them. I imagine he'll be out probably through the rest of the month. There's some reporting from Shamm that it could possibly be a full month. So maybe we're digging into March at that point. And so the Mavs, three games over 500, right now, eighth in the Western Conference. You really have to do enough in order to stay afloat here while he's gone. I mean, Warriors are 11th right now at 16 and a half. Even the spurs are way back

at 19 and a half games back. So about four and a half games back for the map. So it's going to be tough. I don't know. I imagine they'll still make the playoffs because they did with the MASH unit beat the Celtics the other night. Like they still have enough Narji Marshalls. We should talk about Max Christie,

as Rob mentioned. Like he seems like he has another gear to his game that I'm excited to see. There's a lot. There's enough depth there. But it's going to be hard. I imagine they're looking at playing at best at this point. It's going to be really hard. And they have a lot of head-to-head matchups against these other playing teams

left on their schedule. they frankly just have to beat the kings and have to beat the Warriors and have to beat the sons when those teams come up. Those are going to be incredibly important games all of a sudden. And I want to give AD credit about one thing too. I wrote about this sum for the ringer.com today. Everything that we're saying about Nico Harrison and Patrick Dumont and the things they have said publicly about this trade, Anthony Davis has been the exact opposite. He has actually, in his public comments about coming to the Mavs, spoken with a lot of respect about what Luca meant to the area, like really deferring, I think, to the fan experience and how invested people were in Luca as a Maverick,

and in the idea of he's coming, basically had an hand trying to win people over and give hope to a franchise that is frankly in desperate need of some right now. So it especially sucks that a guy who was coming in with the perfect perspective with that dominant initial performance, for him to have to bow out in the way he did is really, really painful for the Mavs. And ultimately, I hope you're right, Justin, that they're going to end. end up in the play-in mix. I am kind of in wait and see mode. I have no idea what to expect. One thing that I'm kind of getting caught on is the maps have had to make do a lot without Luca this year. And in some ways, that's given them the ability to have those sort of mass unit performances

you're talking about. It's also at some point just going to take a toll on especially guys like Kyrie who have to do a lot of creative heavy lifting now, particularly with AD out. And how are they going to continue to do it in these games that matter in these games with heightened emotions? like, for example, when you play against Luca Donchich for the first time, and then when he comes to Dallas to play against him for the second time, there's just a lot going on for the Mavs right now. Yeah, so the other side of this, though, is the Lakers, like we mentioned, Luca plays tonight or we're expecting him to play tonight.

Mark Williams won't be playing tonight. Well, perhaps he will, but not for the Lakers, because that trade got rescinded after they went through the physicals. I mean, I can't remember anything like that where the trade was actually pulled. back. So we had the Caleb Martin trade that got revised after the fact because there was something found in the physicals, but there was enough time before the deadline where they could attach a second round pick that the Sixers could. This one, because they were post deadline, they couldn't do anything. I'm perplexed was, but I have to say I was someone who was kind of

questioning this as the follow-up move to begin with. So I think in the short term, this might not be great because they have literally one center on the roster and it's Jackson Hayes. I think long term, at the very least, you have the potter to do something bigger, perhaps to pair Luca with another superstar. So I don't know. I wonder if this is a saving grace in some ways. Yeah, I think if you took a critical lens to the deal like some of us did up here when it came to our misgivings about Mark Williams' injury history, one, and his defense that he's put on tape so far in his career. It just hasn't been very impressive. And, you know, if you had your problems with the deal, it's like, oh, the Lakers got lucky,

but you just wonder about the process here and why, you know, this happened at the 11th hour in terms of the rescinding of the trade. And you wonder if the medical group was involved at the start of this anyway at all. And if they came in at the last minute because, you know, management was sort of operating solo here and was like, look, man, this is the kind of medical that we wouldn't clear. And maybe if they did try to figure this trade out on Tuesday or something or Monday of last week, there would be some amendments to the deal where the Lakers

still get Mark Williams, but maybe they're like, oh, that 2030 swap, that's off the table or something like that. Or maybe Charlotte needs to add some other sweeteners. I think this is legitimate, man. I think the Lakers wanted this guy in their building, and they saw stuff that just really, really scared them away, which is not to say that Mark Williams can't go on and have a nice career.

I don't think that this is like some death knell for him injury-wise or something like that. But clearly, there's something in his medical that spook the Lakers. Yeah, and I think something that goes above and beyond standard issue intel that the Lakers might have already had on hand. So, like, I actually think,

it makes total sense to me that maybe clearly they know how much time he's missed. They know the vague parameters of his injury and maybe even greater detail after doing some digging on him. him. But there are certain things you don't know for certain until you see the, you know, the medical in detail. And with Mark Williams, clearly that is scaring the Lakers. Clearly it scared the Hornets, a rebuilding team that was about to trade away a really talented 23-year-old player.

And I have, I agree that he still has the opportunity to have a great career of head of him. Lots of players have overcome early injury problems, managed to put things together. It's a little diceier for Biggs, I'll say historically, a lot of lower body injuries, although Mark Williams It's kind of been all over the map in terms of what his medical history is. It's still concerning. I think what I'm kind of having an eye to is what does this mean for him in the near future as far as what his next contract looks like. This is a loud indictment of Mark Williams, the healthy basketball player.

And he's a guy who, and this is one of the reasons why the Hornets would have wanted to trade him in the first place, has already been in the league for three years. He's 40% of the games in those three years. He's extension eligible this fall. It's going to be due for a new point. contract in 2026, whether you give him an extension or not. And now all of a sudden, he is this hanging over him as far as what he can, you know, if you're going to put a price tag on what he can give you on a basketball court,

it's now a lot harder for Mark Williams to get the kind of deal that his talent deserves if this is the reality of his health. Yeah. We're old enough to remember when Tyson Chandler, the trade to the thunder was scuttled because of one toe. The left big toe, as I am looking up here, is what ultimately, kept him from going to the thunder and the ripple effects from that are absolutely fascinating because he eventually gets to the Mavs like the Thunder ultimately go out and get perk. It's just like,

it's just a whole mess of history that gets written as a result of that. But Chandler obviously had another gear to his career. Different sort of trajectory top pick who kind of like settled into this weird middle ground before he kind of popped with the Mavs later in his career and then eventually the Nix. But there's life after all this. Mark Williams's injuries a little bit more significant back, which kept him out last year. Foot, they kept them out in the beginning of this year. I like him as a player, like we've said before, like just a big mobile target,

huge hands. Offensively, just like, will help any team. We'll see about the defense, but I still like him. Hopefully he could pick things back up. But for the Lakers,

kind of leaves them a little wanting, you know, because they can't just go out and fill that void anywhere else because I believe they're also a little bit restricted in terms of aprons and trades. I think they can still sign up buyout guy because they're not over the second apron so they can get a guy who is making

under 13 million who has been waived by their team which is like you know it limits the pool just a little bit. Was, do you think about the Lakers this season any differently now without Williams in there? I mean, I don't know that Williams made them some championship contender. You know, I just don't truly don't believe that. However, we got to assume he had more to give than Jackson Hayes does. I mean, I think that's a fair assumption. Even if you're just doing it on offense only, and you could say maybe him and Jackson Hayes

would have been a draw. Some people would say Jackson Hayes is a much better defender. I don't know. I can't really say, but I don't think the Lakers right now are like so adversely affected by this, right? I think it makes them worse, but I don't think their trajectory

has been severely diminished by this, but I do think when you look at the bottom, buyout market like the guy, the names that, like a quick cursory glance of like the teases and the MoBombas and it's a tough. No Simmons out there for you. Tough market. Let me divert us right there because I believe it's actually first and second apron teams that cannot sign guys over the mid-level value on their previous contract and a buyout.

So they could sign somebody who's been cut who was at a lower level salary, but I don't think they can even participate in that kind of buyout market. So this is who they are. guess on the bright side connect is a shooter and so that is the other type of player you want around luka donchich but they're going to be pretty thin it's going to be a lot of ruy lebron probably spot in minutes there uh on second units how do you looka maybe if he's he's actually 270 i'm just wondering how you add dalton connect back to the group chat like do you do you even do you just i mean i think you have to it's just that's a that's a tough invite back so

tough, tough for both guys. For Mark Williams, too, it's going to be awkward heading back to Charlotte and just be like, hey, welcome back. Yep. We love and value you here. It's tough, but this is the business, man. This is how it goes. And, you know, some people would have said like myself, I would have thought it better

to go after a Clint Capella or like, you know, a nice serviceable big that was way more affordable. They opted to try to take a shot on somebody who could have, you know, tremendous upside in the future. but now they can do neither and we'll see how this works out. And that's the difference, as we've alluded to with this and the Tyson-Channler kind of parallel

is they had the window because they tried to make the deal earlier to go out and get somebody else. The Lakers are more or less stuck with this and they're not just stuck with Jackson-Haze. They're stuck with whoever they're playing behind Jackson-Hays. They're stuck with the Trey Jemison minutes more or less I think is going to be a relevant part of this team or as you said, Justin, maybe a 270 Luka,

maybe a LeBron, like, they're really going to have to pinch some Markeith Morris minutes in here somewhere and just hope for the best. And that's a little dicey. Yeah. Luca was actually gaining weight in order to play center down the road. He was actually adding a new dimension to his game. But the map didn't realize. He's seeing the full board, point center.

The West is just a complete mess, though, at this point. I mean, there's just so many teams that are kind of on that second tier where it's like they definitely have something, but who is going to really clarify, things or really jump into the Thunder's level. I mean, the Thunder, at this point, I will say again, the Thunder have nine losses in this entire season. They just got Jet Holmgren back and they have a plus 13 point differential, which I believe would be the best in NBA history. When the game tips off, the NBA action is just beginning on Fandle, America's number one sports book, because Fandle is your

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First online real money wager only, $5 first deposit required. bonus issued as non-witrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply see terms at sportsbook.fandle.com gambling problem call 1800 gambler or visit rg dash help.com well maybe this is a good transition point for us justin because you asked us to bring some pertinent questions for what we would like to see answered after the deadline the things that we're trying to unravel over the back half of the season the number one question for me is which of these other Western Conference contenders are going to regret not doing more

because there is a bit of a void here. There is a bit of a mess. Like there are the thunder clearly who are in a class of their own. And then there's this other group of very competitive teams, most of which did nothing to actually add to their rosters. And look, we are fickle creatures. And I think it would be natural on the other side

of a second round loss to look at what could have been, to look at the deals you could have made if you are the Memphis Grizzlies, if you're the Denver Nuggets, if you're even in the Minnesota Timberwolves and say, you know what, we were closer than we thought. And I am eager to see

who finds themselves in that position by the end of the year and who kind of even already seems to be moving in that direction over the next month or two. Well, we talked about awkwardness going back to their teams. How do you think Zik Naji

and Dario Sarich are feeling right now after their GM was like, we tried to trade those bums? They weren't in the rotation, but we did our best here. I got to say, I think the nuggets are looking pretty good right now because they have a clear size advantage. They didn't go out and make a move.

But like Michael Porter Jr. slowly playing pretty well. And it fits their whole identity. If he is that third guy, I understand juicing the offense with a Zach Levine type if you wanted to go out and do something different. But they are the best version of themselves when they could be big in that front court. And when Russ is playing as well as he had, Russ is out right now. So we'll see if it affects them in the regular season standings. I do think it would be nice if they can clarify themselves as the number two, if only to get home court advantage. But to me, I think they're making out like gangbusters here because they're like, they're just, they were waiting for something like this to happen in opening.

And so they could just let Yokic be the best player in every series. Yeah. If you're Denver, you definitely look at, okay, OKC is having this amazing season. They've definitely coalescence is something very special and they're killing it. outside of that in the West, I don't know why Denver would feel any problems against anybody. Even Minnesota, who clearly gives them matchup situations, I think the Ant matchup specifically,

they just don't have the wing that makes sense in the matchup. He's either too big or too fast for all of their wing defenders. But outside of that, who, you know, obviously was just a whale of a matchup in the playoffs last year for them, I don't know why Denver would be nervous. about any of these other teams, considering what they could bring to bear. So I thought they were pretty smart.

And the young guys have looked way better than they did, you know, the first three, four weeks of the season, which sounds like, you know, duh, they're young guys. But like, listen, man, young guys don't always pan out. Sometimes they just stay bad. And their young guys have stepped up to the play. So Denver, I think, is clearly the number two team in the West right now. And I think Memphis and all these other guys are in the mix.

Not like they're that far behind, Denver with, you know, their championship pedigree. They have the best player in the league. You know, the supporting cast, Murray started off horribly. Porter Jr. was kind of just middling. But now those guys are both catching fire. Denver is sitting very pretty at the moment. I think if they were going to make a move,

it would have been something on the periphery, not to echo Calvin Booth too strongly, but a Zignaji Dario Saraj kind of trade does sort of make sense for them. That said, Zignaji's been all right lately and giving them some decent minutes here and there, I think ultimately where they are a little bit short and what could hurt them is the insurance for Julian Strother, right?

The insurance for Hunter Tyson, right? These guys who are, you know, giving you bits and pieces here and there, but ultimately you have the rock solid elements of your rotation. And I think Christian Brown is obviously one of the rock solid elements of the rotation at this point. Payton Watson is probably closer to that side of things than the alternative. But there's still a couple role players on the first. French is where even if you weren't going to upgrade on their spot, you could have an alternative for the games where they don't have it. And I don't know that the Nuggets really have a lot of that

right now. They're kind of in a position where their guys have to be good. And if their guys aren't good enough or the matchup isn't favorable enough to them that could hurt them, all of that said, Memphis to me is the glaring team here of a team that had an opportunity to do something. And frankly, a team that we've been waiting to make a consolidation trade of a kind. They have more good players and more viable rotation players than they can use. and rather than use that combination of players and picks that they have available to them to try to make their roster any better in any meaningful way,

what they did was give away two guys. That hurts, even when you understand the financial explanations for why it happened. Like there's a perfectly reasonable and plausible case to be made for the financial relief that comes with shedding Marcus Smart and trading away Jake Laravia, who they basically wouldn't have been able to, to resign anyway after declining his option.

But it just hurts to get to this point where they do feel pretty close and to not be moving forward and instead be moving in the direction of financial relief. Yeah, I said it after the deadline. I don't understand why they did that now as opposed to in the off season. It feels like that could have been there for them.

I know La Ravia would have been a free agent at that point, so you couldn't have worked him in there. But like, I think just keeping him and just keep him as a solid rotation player would have been perfectly fine because you didn't get anything back. for him. So they just replaced guys who could be helpful and smart and a guy who was helpful with nothing. And so that's a little curious. We're always looking out for John Morant. He's played

three games since he's been back from his latest injury. And he's been he's been better, just not the same dynamic job that we're used to. He has been in kind of past first mode in order to activate all these other options that he has on the team the entire season. So maybe there's that and he'll just take over when it comes to a playoff series. But I don't know. I think the wolves are pretty intriguing at this point because they seem to have righted their ship to the point where they're in the mix for this number two slot. I just think if they have the right combination of guys, especially the way Nas Reid is playing and the way that it can play seemingly virtually any game where he dropped 40 the other night, like still having the best

player in a series where we're saying these teams are kind of on the same level, I think is going to matter. And so I think you have to watch them in the second half of the season. There are also a team that for trade deadline purposes is so leveraged in terms of their picks and has such a complicated roster situation that I don't know that there was a lot they could do beyond take miracle runs at Kevin Durant and try to figure out the math later, which I'm still trying to figure out if that math can even work. No, the sons were going to just love a Julius Randall situation. It would just dying to do that.

They're both above the second apron, which makes it very hard for them to trade with each other. So there would have to be some very elaborate scenario for that to even. make sense and I'm not sure it ever would have. But all of which is to say, I think the wolves are interesting. They're clearly competitive. They clearly have some matchups that they can work the margins of and really press some teams that are really, really good in the West.

I don't know if on balance they're going to be stable enough to get to a Western Conference final. Again, I would love to see it. I would love to see them continue to correct and continue to make those steps. But this does increasingly feel like either a Memphis year or a Denver year. And certainly one where I think we're into, anticipating OKC punching their ticket a little further than they did last time.

Why, do you like any of the other teams or is it just Denver for you? Yeah, in terms of the West, I mean, I've been on Memphis all year. I'm actually not as mad as you guys, or maybe mad is the wrong word, that Memphis didn't make a move. Just because not mad, just disappointed it was. So many of these pieces, man, it's kind of like, all right, let's see them get a chance to accomplish something in the playoffs. These guys, a lot of these guys are unproven. I get it, you know, Sonti Aldama and the like, like haven't proven that they are like tough as nails playoff rotation guys.

Santiago Al Dama has proven everything that he needs to prove to me. I didn't say he needs to prove way more. I'm just saying maybe in the postseason you could say that about them. But if you're Memphis, I think you like your pieces. You like G.G. Jackson. You like, you know, the guys that you have and want to give them a chance. Yeah. To prove their medal in the post season.

So I'm not mad that they made a move. I just think Denver, because of the continuity, because of the stability, I just love that in a playoff, right? Like, they have so many things they can rely upon and just go back to in tough spots that I just like the position they're in. Again, they're not going to get to the number one seed that's sewn up, but they feel like they've just, like, sort of locked themselves into that next tier of Western Conference teams. Yep. Vince Williams, also back. So Memphis has guys on top of guys on top of guys. Like, they have options here.

they're just not as proven. We haven't seen Gigi Jackson. We haven't seen Vince Williams. We haven't seen Jalen Wells, a guy who's a critical part of that starting lineup in the rotation in a playoff series. So it's a little bit more unknown. So you're projecting, but this is kind of what Memphis does. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised that this is how they went at the deadline. I want to flip to the Eastern Conference now because we talked a lot about the Jimmy Butler trade from Golden State's perspective.

I'm wondering about the kind of six to the play and mix to maybe even fifth for the East, because the heat are interesting. I didn't expect them to get a player as good as Wiggins back. And now I don't think it necessarily juices their offense to the point where like maybe they're even just like above average. But he does fit their defensive mindset. And Wiggins has kind of found this nice little middle ground where it doesn't seem like we'll get 22 finals Wiggins as much as people are hoping and praying that Eric Spolstra

and then like the Miami Heat boot camp will just like get him to do a bunch of crunches. And all of a sudden he's just like the best possible. version of himself again. I don't think that's going to happen, but I think the Wiggins that they have now is just like one of the better 3-&D guys in the league. And you add him to their defense, which was already above average, potentially elite, where you're now playing Bamware Wiggins as a pretty huge front line. I have to say, I'm feeling good about my projection that the he could be the winners of this like number six derby with like the pistons and maybe the box, probably not the but like the magic the hawks i think they're like they have enough of heatness with the wiggins move

that i feel good about their chances going forward in in the second half i want to believe i really want to believe and then you know granted wiggins isn't there yet all the all the other guys they brought in kyle anderson davion mitchell not there yet uh watched them drop like 86 points against the nets yeah that's they're gonna and look even when wiggins and davy mitchell and kyle understand get there, they're going to have those kinds of games where they're like scraping together

to get 93. They just don't have a lot of firepower once you get beyond Tyler Hero unless Bam really hasn't cooked in that night, which this season just hasn't been often enough. But defensively, I think they're going to be really formidable. I'm very eager to see it.

I just look at the shape of their total rotation was. I'm like, there's a lot of guys here I like. And they might work well together or maybe not. I don't know if they will score against basically anybody. But I find myself one

to believe in them. If not as a locked-in top 16, then at least one that's competing. It just don't have enough shot creation. Tyler Hero, having a great season, all-star caliber season, and God bless him. God knows his name has been through the mud, through the ring of the last few years,

but he's proven to be like a guy. But it's Tyler Hero and Terry Roger as your shot creators, and every now and again, you get Wiggins and BAM involved in that. And that's just not going to sustain a respectable NBA offense. Now, maybe they piece it together on defense. And Spoh is always, like, pretty crafty about getting more out of his offensive players than would, you know, be expected.

But I just, I can't see how this team scores credibly and reliably with the pieces that are now on the team. Listen, where is good? Where is, like, he's like new white side, basically, just without all. the dumb stuff, you know? Well, he's grabbing and going on rebounds and it doesn't feel crazy. It feels like this is something within his ability to do, man.

That's the part that really got me is this guy has already has a lot of ball skills that I was unsure of and, you know, he's got the tools. He's super lanky, athletic. Like, he's got, there's a lot there to like about this kid. He's got the tools. I don't know if he has the

discretion just yet. And there are a lot of like, he'll play five minutes and get three fouls kind of stretches from him. And look, that's what happens when you come into the league. It's even what happens when you come into the league with an organization that's as buttoned up as the heat. And they have really high standards, which is why it took Kolo where some time to even crack the rotation.

And they had him and BAM playing together in practice basically for months before they were doing it in games to give him the sort of training wheels and acclamation he needed. But it is paying off. Like they're an impressive duo. And I think they can actually really work together long term if that's the way the heat want to go. Yeah. I want to talk about them long term here.

So we know what they are now based on the Wiggins Street. But long term, I'm wondering what the next move is. Because as a result of this trade, you can go one of two ways. You can basically reset your team and say, we have a longer view now. Bam is on a younger timeline and we're building things around him and hero. Let's like slow play this and see what happens. They get a pick from the Warriors in this deal that basically puts them in the same position that they would have been had they been able to keep their pick, which now goes to the thunder. I believe it's 1 to 14 protected, and so that's more than likely going to the thunder.

But the Warriors, I believe, are one spot below them in the standing. So they'll get into that range where they've been successful in the past, Hakez, where we've talked about some of their draft hits before, bam, another guy. They're very good drafting in the middle of the draft. So they could just say like, hey, we're younger, we'll be young and fun. Spel will coach us up. We'll just be as good as possible. But I also have to wonder, like, what are they thinking in terms of the star trade?

Because Riley is always out there looking for the next. guy. I think you got to talk about Kevin Duran as a possibility. I don't know if they can get into the derby there with like in terms of pick packages with a team like the Rockets who has 90 different picks, 90 different young players that would intrigue a team. But if I'm Duran and I'm just looking for like a credible option, like I believe Miami's the one big market he hasn't been to at this point. And if he's looking for stability, that he has stability. So I think there's some sort of a marriage convenience there if they want it. So, KD has been their white whale for six years now.

Since pre-agency. They thought they were in on the KD thing when he went to the Nets. They also thought they had the inside track on trading for KD before Phoenix came and blew every single deal out the water. So I wouldn't be surprised if they still harbored those yearnings for the Slim Reaper. And, you know, again, you know, a little bit more reporting came out about the KD and Phoenix thing where, you know, Steph calls the guy. And he's like, look, Steph, I love you. But like this just doesn't feel like the right way for us to be doing this because he just felt like Phoenix completely blindsided him and shopping him in different deals. Right.

And so now, obviously, he's got a frayed relationship with management. We know KD. That's not going to go well. when that's the case. So KD will come available this summer. It feels like the well has just basically been completely poisoned over there. And Miami will have the opportunity. It's just at what cost and how could it, like, how could it be justified if they're giving up, like, real stuff for it?

Yeah. I don't know what the Miami package looks like that's super competitive for someone like Kevin Durant. And there's also sort of the identity crisis within the heat, which is, Justin, you're right, that Pat Riley does circle these stars and find the guys who's like, I want, as you're alluding to, was Kevin Durant for years and years and years we've been trying to get Durant here.

Obviously, LeBron, obviously Jimmy. There's all these stories about the big game hunting that the heat do. But in his heart of hearts, Eric Spolster is a sicko. And he wants to roll out in the mud with Davy on Mitchell, with Kyle Anderson,

with James Johnson, with Dion Waders. These are the teams that it feels like really invigorate him, as a coach. And in some ways, play the most spirited Miami Heat version of basketball, at least the version that's most true to the giant-ass decals, like, extolling the virtues of their culture on their court. And so there is that part of the heat that wants to be this, that wants to win ugly as often as possible. And so it's like how those things meld together in the future, always fascinating to watch. For short-term purposes, they're just going to be

ugly. And they're going to be ugly in a way that might delight us sometime, but it's definitely going to be ugly. I appreciated you, Donis Haslam on the ESPN set being like, this is a great trade for us. We did a great job here. We love this trade package. I was like, yes, the culture extends beyond when we actually. Completely unbiased opinion there. I mean, is he not still an employee in some capacity? I'm sure he's some kind of consultant or whatever. I see him more as the spin doctor on set that like the administration sends to, you know, to sell the deal. That's his role on a panel show. Yeah.

I will say Kevin Durant only has one more year left on his deal next season. So you would imagine he would be able to pick and choose where he's going and it would be less of a like this team has the most stuff he's going there. But, you know, the Rockas are probably still very appealing and there are a couple other teams that are probably still very appealing if he wanted

to go to other options. Was, do you want to go with one of your questions? Are the magic going to regret not busing a move during the deadline. Yes. Will they wake up?

Will they wake up? Because, so I'm watching the Spurs and whatever, they had a loss or two since the Fox deal. But Fox looks amazing. And the idea that these guys went out and made what is obviously a win now deal. And look, it probably Fox forced their hands, right? In the sense that like an all-star caliber guy is dying to get here, then we got to speed up our timeline. But like I feel like the magic, especially coming into the season, we felt like they were further along in their project than the San Antonio Spurs were.

We thought they were knocking on the door of being like a real problem for the top of the East. And to watch them flounder in a way that they have been recently and to do nothing at the deadline, it's like I understand want to be patient with your young guys. But at the same time, like, you guys came into this year with expectations, man. Like, why do you want to finish this year? with like a sour sort of taste of disappointment and not reaching your end goals. And so I'm curious as to what the magic think they got

or what they think they can still achieve with the expectations they came into the season with. They need it. They need a shot in the arm so badly. And I wonder from their perspective, you know, this is a team that does not make a lot of in-season moves historically. Just like is not a particularly active presence at the trade deadline. clearly has a lot of young talent

on its roster in a way that understandably would lean a team toward wait and see. Let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's let's get these guys come together. Let's see if they figure it out. I kind of wonder if maybe there's a way to look at the deadline for a team like Orlando

which is not oh, you need to make some dramatic renovation to your roster. Oh, you need to trade away. Even the young players you consider to be part of your core in order to get something of value back. But these guys need relief and they need help and they have been a mass unit all season long. And so even the guys who have been out there

and been relatively healthy are now kind of running on fumes. And you see guys just aren't as able to deliver in the ways they did defensively, which is Orlando's calling card. Clearly they're not able to score consistently. This is a team that basically every other game, if not two out of every three games,

ends up in the 90s because they just cannot muster consistent points. And so there's all of these factors swirling together. There's the fact that they haven't played together very much when whole. There's the fact that Jalen Suggs continues. to be like a really important part of the team that they clearly don't really know how to function without sometimes. And then there's all of this effort that

they've expended over the course of the year to try to stay afloat. I think did reasonably well just in earlier in the year but now find themselves just like unable to keep their heads above water although we should say finally proved capable of winning a game. And even I should say two of their last

three. It's been a mess of late. It's been hard to watch because as you mentioned like the offense gets in the mud. I guess we just didn't give Suggs enough credit for being the guy that unsticks everything happening there. I will say Franz has played very well since coming back. Paolo has been a little bit slower going there. So maybe his oblique was more damage than Franz's oblique.

But I kind of don't know why he hasn't really rounded back into form there. But I think you're right. I think it's one, it's just institutionally, they're more on the prude side of things. They're more thunderish where they want to believe more in their development. mental system and their moves, even this offseason, they went out and got KCP, yes, but they also just brought back a bunch of other guys on deals that were favorable for them long term deal that decline, deals with team options, et cetera, et cetera. I think that's just who they are to their core, but also like if you're going to punch it, if you're going to outside of that and like try to

upgrade, you probably want to do it when you're on the upward trajectory and it looks like they're at the very least sliding, trying to maybe make sense of things. Maybe. Maybe they know more about when Suggs, what his injury is, and maybe he will be out longer than we realize. I don't know. I agree with you guys, though. They're a perfect candidate for just adding the sort of like offensive guard who could spice up your offense immediately. Like, I mean, so I thought like Anthony Simons, for instance, a guy we talked about with them so many years now at this point. A guy from Florida, I think would have welcomed a move there. Could have easily played the Cole Anthony role where he's just like on the bench most of the time, but you could play

and you're starting line up basically whenever you want him. It just doesn't seem who they are. And maybe the timing just wasn't right there. Maybe it's more of an offseason sort of thing. Maybe so. I don't even think you have to aim that quite that high. Like this feels like a great like Colin Sexton swing or somebody like that. Even at Jordan Clarkson.

I mean something, dude. I just think that there's a way to look at this again. It's not like, oh, we're the Orlando Magic and this is our big push in. But we're going to invest some modest assets to make our team more survivable now. And it's just, it's just not there yet. The Cole Anthony thing is, is so funny because, like, he is essential to their team right now. Like, absolutely vital to trying to keep any sort of movement to their offense. And yet, it's such a liability because of his size.

And also does the little guy thing where he's, he's working his ass off. And as a result, commits a lot of really bad fouls where he's trying to, like, chase down bigger players or body guys up. Diving into players' legs. There's also that. Good Lord. But like I commend his hustle and I commend his investment in trying to be the best version of Cole Anthony he can be.

But the Orlando Magic don't need Cole Anthony. They need someone like Gamfrey Simons or someone like Colin Sexton. They need someone with actual juice who's going to be plugged into that spot, frankly, even if it's just for this season. Yeah. So we'll see there. There are obviously a factor in that East Race as we talked about with the heat, the pistons. I would imagine they'll probably stay in that range this season unless something really clicks.

But as we saw earlier this season, when they're clicking, they could play on the level of any of these East teams beyond maybe the first Cavs, Celtics, and Nix. They're just like right there when they have everything going. Rob, do you want to go with one of your questions? Yeah, I have one where, you know, we've talked a little bit about DeAndre Hunter's addition to the Cavs already. And I think what I want to know most about that deal is not does DeAndre Hunter make them better,

clearly makes them better. It's a good player, talented player. they just added to the rotation at the expense of another valuable contributor in Keros Lavert. Ultimately, George Nying minutes were useful but ultimately replaceable. He helps them. But does he change the way we think about and look at the calves? And by that I mean, is DeAndre Hunter somebody who helps the calves be better in the matchups where they were already quite good and had advantages to win those games

buy more or to build bigger margins? Or does he actually make? a difference in the areas where they have trouble. And this is something that I think we're only going to be able to see in real time. We're only going to be able to see in the way that not only he works himself into the mix, but where is Cleveland comfortable diverting the ways it wants to play to go to the occasional DeAndre Hunter creation, to go to some pick and roll, some ISO from him. Yeah, so what would you say are the ones that they're deficient at?

So for one, I think it's, you can look at this from a skill set perspective or you can look at this from a matchup perspective. We've already talked some about Boston specifically, like the Cavs trying to match up better with the Celtics. And that's length, right? That's defensive length, I think, that is the primary value add there, in addition to some of what Hunter gives you as a shooter and a creator.

But we also don't really know how the Cavs match up with the Knicks. They played once early in the season, and that was so early the Knicks did not have it together at all yet. We're going to get a lot of evidence late as far as how those teams will actually play each other. The Pacers have actually done really well against the Cavs. I think the Bucks have it in. them and have played the Cavs pretty pretty tight a couple of times but also got blown out once as

as the Bucs are ought to do depending on who's available night tonight and so when I'm thinking about these teams I'm trying to understand like where does Hunter's length on defense matter where does his like capacity for go to scoring that's a little bit more valuable than what Max Struce can give you or Dean Wade can give you or even Karas Levert can give you where is that valuable and where is the lineup flexibility of being able to play Hunter at the four in some matchups. Where is that going to really pay off? It's just Hunter at 6.8 is so different than a 6-5 Max Truce or Isaac Acora when he comes back at like basically,

probably closer to 6-4 if we're being honest. Like Dean Wade has some size, but he's also not as quick as DeAndre Hunter. And so are those the kinds of differences that mean something, or are they the kinds of differences that just make the calves look a little bit better at the things they were already good at? Yeah, traditionally the answer's been no with DeAndre Hunter. but I would say the context in Atlanta has never been as solid as what is happening in Cleveland in terms of, you know, the guys in the back line defending behind him, just having a system

that everybody on the team is actually adhering to on defense. I think is a very key factor here. So maybe like he will be lifted up by the new context and circumstance. So like that's yet to be seen offensively. I just don't buy that he's going to give you more. I don't know. I just don't anticipate that they're going to go away from Garland and Mitchell and when they're giving it to Mowgli to let D'Andre Hunter cook at times.

I think his offensive contributions are going to be negligible, honestly. This feels like a team that just needed more size, more umph on the wing. And they just didn't have anybody with this guy. with this guy's sort of physical profile, and so the move made sense for them. Yeah. Yeah, I like how he fills in that starting lineup because he does make their starting front court

even more physical and a little bit bigger because he is a strong, powerful player in the way that even a Max Truce is not. And I also like to your earlier point, like, do they have the option to play a little bit smaller with him at the four if they need to do that? Because I do think we're going to get to the point where Jared Allen maybe can't play in some of these crunch time minutes,

especially against a team like the Celtics, it's going to go five out when they're clicking. The problem I think is ultimately, like Garland is going to have to defend somebody. And if the Celtics are the shining example or the team that you're going to have to get past, like he has to guard what? At worst, Drew Holliday, who is a mountain of a man who could probably just power him into the basket or create problems there. And so on the one hand, I think you're right, Rob.

I think ultimately they probably encounter the same glass ceiling that they ultimately had. I have to give him credit, though. They did go out and try to make the best possible, version of themselves. And I do think, like, you know, considering the way the Celtics are a little iffy as we talked about, like, you know, maybe just getting a guy who can still help our math advantage with the three-pointer, like, maybe this gives us more of a margin there in a matchup where it's like, oh, maybe this is more of a coin flip than we expected rather than we're just going to, this is, we have the odds here. Yeah. It's a deal that's admittedly grown on me a little more,

the more that I've sat with it. I just wonder, is this the kind of thing where you're going to look over the remainder of the Cavs season. And from a 10,000 foot perspective, you know, the on-off numbers look great. Hunter's production looks consistent with what he was doing in Atlanta, like an impressive contributor within the fabric of how the Cavs play.

And then you watch them a couple of times in a week, and you're like, there's something here that's not quite jumping out of me in the way that I would like it to be jumped out at. Look, that is the DeAndre Hunter experience. We've all been waiting for many things from DeAndre Hunter over the years. And this is the closest he's ever come to delivering on that.

And so I want to give him a, I want to give the Cavs appropriate credit for taking the kind of swing you're talking about. And I'm really eager to see how much of a, whether he can be a transformative factor for them in any capacity or if he's just like a nice, modest ad at the deadline. Yep. Uh, was. Do you want to do your last one? Uh, my last one, it's just monitoring the Phoenix situation.

Um, and to see how it goes the rest of the season. because obviously KD is pissed, but Bradley Bill also was just, he was put on the trade block. Like literally they made it known that they would take anything to have this guy and his deal no longer on the contract. You're hearing rumors that Boudonohler is kind of just like, I don't want to say checked out, but just like it's not going as great as maybe some of us thought that it was going.

So I don't want to say Phoenix is going to implement. I would hope that there's a lot more professionalism up and down that roster than to implode. But like because they didn't come out of the deadline with, you know, their intended targets, I'm really monitoring that really closely. And also, you know, it's nice they got rid of NERC, who was obviously pissed.

But now, again, there's still people back there who are upset. Devin Booker's having, you know, a strange season. It's just, it's just Phoenix is something and I'm monitoring really closely. They flipped one of their future picks for, I believe, three other picks in order to chop up their pick in order to be able to make deals. And what they got out of that was dumping use of Nurkich for the other Martin Bro and Vassili

Mietchich, who I believe is already looking overseas to potentially play in your league. So they got a rotation player who can't shoot and like will be sort of helpful on the wing. and that is the help in order to write the ship that is careening vigorously toward those rocks and does not look like they're going anywhere. The vibes are awful. Kevin Durant isn't playing. We'll see if he comes back because he's just like so pissed and upset about what's going on there, them trying to trade him back to Golden Zayt.

He's basically like, no, I don't want to fucking hang out with Draymond Green again. This is a mess. This might be the worst. We've had a lot of catastrophes in the NBA, including the Dallas. Mavericks now in their current state, this might be the worst of all time, at least in our lifetime in terms of like just, I guess the Nets. Oh, yeah. Come on.

The Nets exist. But they're out more. Acknowledge their pain. All right. Yeah. The Nets were really bad. But like at the very least they brought in like the whole Marks thing and they did the young player thing and just building up guys.

They got a long way to go before they even get to that point. Like they have a lot of long way to go to even fight and. a cure for play-in positioning. They're in such a dog fight to compete for anything of any relevance whatsoever. And that that's where the Phoenix Suns are is an indictment of the whole experiment, of the whole endeavor of what they have done

in the Kevin Durant era. It doesn't work. And like none of the role players work in the context that they are being asked to provide. There's a lot of good guys here who could be a good shooter on a team, a good defender on a team, even a good big on a team.

But you put all this talent out there together and it doesn't line up. there's not enough pressure on the ball. There's not enough help behind that pressure. In terms of the cohesiveness of the offense, it doesn't move, it doesn't gel. There's not a consistent flow to anything that the sons are trying to do.

And so they do have enough singular shot creation really when Kevin Durant is out there to overcome some of that and win some games. But man, the vibes are genuinely horrendous for a team that has as many wins as they have, which is like fine, you know, at 500 right now in 26 and 26. But they feel like a,

a Blazers competitor right now, right? Like, they feel like they should be down in the Utah zone based on vibes alone. Rob, could you just, like, read my mind about where I was going for my second question? Well, I already know you're going to the Blazers at every opportunity. Well, because I have down here for my second most intriguing post-deadline question, are the Trailblazers the best team in the NBA? Because right now, over their past 12 games, they are. are 10 and 2 with the best defense in the entire NBA.

It has been something to watch, something to behold, because I was just ready for them to hit the tank button. They still might because after this, you know, we'll see how viable it is long term. But they've kind of like cleared the bar of the sagging for flag sweepstakes. And they're very much at the very least theoretically in the play and mix in the West. And at this point, they're so far up in the standings. they might as well give it their best shot. At the very least, I think they've found something here.

First and foremost, defensively, where I think the combination, I got to say, of Tumani Kamara and Deniavda, has paid dividends, not only defensively where they're rock solid, but also they play with the flow. Not surprising, these are two Euro guys who can play, like, kind of on the wall,

off the ball. The ball is pinging around. DeAndre Aiton, playing inspired basketball, and it is a reminder that this is, probably one of the most athletically gifted seven footer pluses we probably ever seen. And if he just fucking tries, you could see how good he can be. And then, you know, we could talk about scoot. We could talk about Shaden.

But like those guys are finally starting to show things where those guys look like, I don't know how good in terms of like long term. Are they stars? Are they below that? Are they just like very good rotation players? We'll see. But like at the very least, we're seeing positive basketball. And for me, for someone who has to suffer through some of the earlier games, this has been a positive development.

Oh, hugely positive development. Justin, for you personally, I'm wondering how would it hit you if, for example, the Blazers overtook the Spurs and made the play in, but the Spurs did not? Because you have bet us that the Spurs will make the play in. But what happens if Portland makes it and they don't? Because they're basically neck and neck in the standings right now. That's right. They have more wins, but are half a game back of the Spurs. I would be a little disappointed because I only root for myself in all aspects.

But, you know, it would be nice to see some more competitive basketball. Because like I said, the dog days of the beginning of the season were quite bad. Seeing Scoot Henderson play at, like, replacement level has been something to behold. I mean, make some actual shots. Scoot Henderson. It's been genuinely amazing to see him hit. Yeah, he's been hitting. Yes.

I don't know if you guys. Go ahead. I think the school thing is kind of the biggest part of this is that, all right, now this guy is actually looking like a player. And, you know, most of the things that were his problem is like he was not turning the corner on anybody. And he was bricking every single jump shot, which is not a combination you want from your point guard. But, you know, now that the shot is falling, I think it's cool. But again, like, to play the best defense in the NBA for even a 10 or 11, 12 game stretch, it takes a level of, buy-in from the coaching level that, you know, I didn't know that this team had within themselves.

So to see these young guys come together and buy in on a defensive philosophy has been nice. And, you know, and these guys, like, play for each other, too. It seems like these dudes kind of like each other, which is nice. And I think it's because, like, they don't have, like, this crazy amount of trade speculation and who's coming in and who's coming out. I think Grant is obviously, he's been on the trade. He's been in trade rumors basically since he left Denver. But besides that, like, nobody wanted to trade for Aiton.

You know, they're seeing what they have with all the rest of their young guys. I think it's nice that they feel like grounded in what they're doing. Yeah, I don't know if I can get there with Aiton. That's going to be my personal journey. If DeAndre Aden continues to be good, what will it take for me to believe that that is real and not a puff of smoke? it's going to disappear as soon as I grasp at it.

The Denny Avdiya, Tumani-Kamara thing, that feels genuine. Feels like a real, sustainable, reliable thing you can continue to build around, or at least account for, right? They're not necessarily star-level contributors, but Denny's proven to be a really versatile player. To Moni-Kamara, we already knew, had incredible defensive potential. I think is finding new and exciting ways to provide other areas of value and stay on the floor, which is always kind of an uphill battle for guys who are more defense-first coming into the league.

Everything else is a little TBD, and that's okay for where the Blazers are right now. Like they're going to be improb- they're going to be provisional at this stage in their development. And to see scoot rise to the challenge of some of that provisional offense, to see Simons find his shot again, to see Shaden Sharp, who's always had moments, have them a little bit more consistently. All that stuff is sick. I just don't know if DeAndre Aidan is the part of that that I'm going to like really hang my hat on just yet until I see it and see it again over and over and over for more than three weeks. Well, I'll say this. One, yes, we have to give Billups a lot of credit because the one thing he has done and shown that he can do is speak to some of these guys. And he kind of challenged some of their bigger guys on this team, Scoot and Shaden in particular.

Shaden had to move to the bench because he wasn't playing defense. He basically set a bar where it's like, you're not going to get minutes. You're not going to get featured unless you do play defense. And so both of those guys responded to that and credit to Bill for doing that. But I do think, like, Aiton has the sort of. of crazy that I think every team needs. I think a lot about Dreamon Green being kind of the devil on Steph's shoulder. Like, Aitin, I think it's a bad, hold on, gets a bad rap to some degree because I think he's

more jovial than he is like cancerous to a team's chemistry, but he's a lot. He's a lot as a human. He's a lot as a personality. And this is a team that's Wads's point. I think is a lot of good guys just like trying to make their way in the NBA. But they need like the spark of it all. And I think Scoot is part of that. I think part of the reason why he's done so well so quickly is like the shot started falling

and then playing with that confidence has kind of shirkled down to the rest of this game. I had one person tell me he's like he's an alpha in terms of his personality. And you can kind of see that. He wants to be the leader. We'll see if he'll get there this year. But Aiton is like he's the emotional about like he's the guy that like when you're having a bad day, he's going to get you up because he's yelling in your face about something ridiculous. Like video games are about the sandwich that he just had.

And so I don't know if it's long term. But if he's buying into that, that's all you need. Because like I said before, he is a giant, spectacular athlete who could probably do whatever the fuck he wants if he was just engaged enough of the season. It's just that it hasn't been the case throughout his career. Isaiah, let's just clip this audio. Like, we're just going to need to play this back in a month. And we're going to have to remind Justin that the spirited defense of DeAndre Aid

was that he's yelling about sandwiches. Like, he's a welcome personality. I appreciate what he brings to the table in that regard. Yeah. I think this will ultimately end in probably a rig or two. They already lost to the wolves the other night without Anthony Edwards, I believe, in that game. And so, like, there are limitations here. Also, when you look at the teams that they've beaten, it's like, yes, this is an elongated stretch and we should pay credence to how well they played.

On the other hand, they got a lot of teams in the state where they're just like not quite right. They got two games against the suns right before the deadline. They got two games against the magic, and we talked about how they're kind of a mess here. So things do balance out. I think we'll get to the point at the end of the season. We're like, why the fuck did they win so many games and why didn't they're tanking? Because what they actually need is a true blue superstar because Scoot is good as he's been. I think he's going to top out as like a, you know, a very good starter.

I think is his ceiling now. Shaden probably not a star, but it clearly does something offensively if you can compensate for him defensively. But for now, not bad. we're talking about them on a podcast, even if it is in the hour plus minute range. And I didn't really have to force it that much, some but not much. We did give you a lob.

You could bring anything you want to the table, and this is worthy of discussion. The Blazers have been good enough for this kind of conversation, without a doubt. We didn't even get into the 20 or 30 minutes of Tumani Camaro that I have in my back pocket whenever you guys want. So you want to sit on me?

Save the good stuff for group chat after dark. That's subscription only kind. content. There you go. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? We'll be back later this week. I won't be back later this week. I'm taking Thursday off. We haven't talked about this, yes? But hopefully, hopefully our friends will come up with something good for you. But we'll, we'll be back as a podcast on Thursday. Thank you, Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Talk to soon. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 188-78-98-98-9-77-7-7 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD Gamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelpline, ma.org or 800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.