The Ringer NBA Show - The Luke Kornet Game Saves the Celtics. Plus, Wolves March On, and Next Questions After the Draft Lottery. | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos jump right in with their thoughts on the Celtics saving their season and winning Game 5. Then, they discuss the Timberwolves closing out their series against the Warriors in five games. They discuss how Minnesota will fare in the conference finals, and what’s next for the Warriors. Lastly, they wrap up with some questions moving forward for the rest of the league now that the draft order is set. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto and Kiera Givens The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit⁠ ⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Our Best Seller. Your Best Workout. Beyond Raw LIT Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 plus and present in select states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com hello and welcome to group chat i am justin barrier and joining me rob mahoney big wads we're going to be talking about a lot tonight we're going to talk about next questions about the draft lottery going to talk about the wolves marching on to another western conference final We have to start with the Celtics saving their season. Specifically was we need to talk about Luke Cornett because we drafted him in the last round of our white Americans draft. Specifically, you drafted him, I believe, with your last pick.

Did you know at the time that you were galvanizing him to the point where he was going to save Boston season in this crucial game? I did not. In fact, the reason why he was picked so low is because he's like, he kind of wasn't getting as much love and burn as he did last season. And he kind of became a forgotten man, even by his own coach, Joe Missoula, who finally mercifully got KP to hell about the game and let Luke Cornette Cook. And he was incredible. I think his presence turned the entire game around and extended Boston season. His presence, but by extension, y'all's presence.

I mean, he did mention in his post-game presser that he was inspired by the white American draft, that he felt underrated, underrepresented in the white. an American draft. So congratulations to both of you for drafting him late slash not drafting him in your case, Justin. Well, I think another thing that came out of these postgame press conferences, the actual postgame press conferences was Joe Missoula saying that Christop's Phringas couldn't breathe in this game and that he could have gone if absolutely necessary. But I think a big part of this, Rob, is just taking KP's minutes away from them because he's been such a struggle this postseason. I gave all credit to Lou Cornette. He was amazing in this game. But like,

it was a real addition by his subtraction. Then Cornett added it on top. of that. That's the thing. I think that's why over these last couple games, we were waiting for this sort of transition point. And there's always, you know, it's, these are tough decisions, especially when a guy is injured or sick, especially when a guy's a really important part of your team win fully healthy. But Chris Stap's, poor Zingis has not been good in this series. He was a disaster in his first stint. The Knicks do not respect him. Like, I think that's one of the biggest problems is he can't even just like park on the perimeter and pretend to be a spacer. He has no gravity in these games. And so if he doesn't have gravity, he can't breathe, as you'll

Missoula is saying he's not moving well. There's just not really a place for him in the series. And that brings us no joy to say. But those are the facts on the ground for Chris that's fours-engis. And then in-cubs loop Cornett, channeling the spirit of Bill Russell. Like this was an unbelievable helpside rim protector and shot blocker in this game to say nothing of the screening and rolling on perfect five-for-five from the field. Overall, like the way he's helping them clean the glass against the next team that's

hitting the boards as hard as they can. just as important as a role player can be in a game like this. And credit to Boston across the board for coming with the requisite sort of fight. And ultimately, this is a game where they can throw their Luke Cornett size, like off-speed pitches. And they can get by on some like the rallying cry after Jason Tatum's injury. Now you got to keep doing it. And that's where it gets harder and harder as you go. Yeah, I thought he just made life miserable for the Knicks and the paint.

They've been comfortable getting to add worse floater range. And tonight, they didn't even want to do that with Luke Cornyett down in much less get all the way to the basket, which I thought was, you know, basically the key to making the Knicks offense into a waste of time, especially in that second half. And offensively, like, he was just there being huger than every single person on the floor. And so, you know, I thought that was a boon as well. obviously, you know, the main guys, J.B. and White, like, they carried the offense for sure. But defensively, to me, is where they actually won this game and just completely put the Knicks in the clamps in the second half.

See, I'm a little torn on that because this was, like, by the numbers, one of the Knicks' more successful offensive games of the series so far. And when you think about it, it's like, we saw Cornette's impact in exactly the way you're describing. We saw them getting out of the paint. this was also a game where the Knicks finally hit like a requisite number of shots from three it's also a game where they marched to the free throw line and were able to kind of buoyed the fact that they couldn't hit anything else inside and then ultimately I felt like they struggled sort of matching

even though you get a pretty good Jalen Brunson game scoring-wise a pretty good cat scoring game you're getting Josh Hart with an unexpected 24 they just like struggle to keep up with the Cornets and the Pritchards and the Jalen Browns and it's like the pure volume of Celtics who were contributing, I felt like, might have gotten the better of the Knicks today. Yeah, I guess, I mean, their offense was excellent, too.

I guess for me, like Josh Hart, splashing four or five threes. I don't consider to be the result of fantastic New York Knicks offense, right? I think this is a guy just making his threes that night. And so it looks amazing. I just thought how, you know, they basically made the Knicks look like the Celtics on offense, quite frankly, just station to station, very static. very predictable, very one-on-one. Everything's happening very late in the clock.

They just made the Knicks to me the offense looks so bad and uncomfortable. And they weren't, you know, basically the previous games. It was Brunson sort of getting whatever the hell he wanted against the Derek White's, the Peyton Pritchers, and putting Boston's defense in about Al Horford. He was just finessing, basically last game. and then destroying the integrity and foundation of Boston's defense. And, you know, everybody else being able to cook off of that. That just straight up didn't happen in this game.

And I think to me, that was the difference. Yeah, I think the thread the need of between what you guys are both saying is I think the third quarter just was such a catastrophe for the Knicks. Like, then their offense was just non-existent. In that third quarter alone, Corny had five of his seven blocks in 22 overall minutes. but also Jalen Brunson somehow accumulated five fouls in a single quarter. The Knicks were four for 20 shooting in that one quarter. Everything just fell apart. We've seen like in other games an avalanche happening.

Typically, offense just overwhelming another opponent. The Pacers did it the other night. The Thunder in game two against the Nuggets. This time it just felt like everything gummed up for the Knicks. And then that was it. I'm not a referee guy. I hate the referee stuff. but like when I watch what gets not called in the OKC and Denver series

like these guys are beating each other to death and like some of the calls that Boston got tonight I was like damn if I'm Denver OKC watching I'm like how the hell is that a foul like on what planet yeah so I thought they got the benefit of that tonight too I know we're talking about all the fun stuff up front officiating accepted but like the Luke Cornette elements the wildcard elements to me this is an amazing Jalen Brown game. Like first and foremost, top line, that is a guy who has to show up in a game like this for the Celtics to survive.

And I thought he played with a level of control that we just have not really seen from him very often in the series. He's been a little bit off balance in a lot of these previous games where he's like trying to kind of impose his will, trying to use his size and strength to his advantage, but being a little too aggressive in some spots,

too passive in other spots, like not fully Jalen Brown in the way that we saw, say, during last year's championship run. it was almost like being down 3-1 took some of the pressure off him. And he played like a free and easy game. And he was able to attack at Will and leverage his strengths and set everyone up. Career high 12 assists.

I just thought he was really, really sensational, really, really remarkable work. And also, like, defensively, he was getting after it. Guarding Jalen and Brunson a bunch in this game. Just did everything required for the Celtics to get through this. Yeah, I agree. I just felt like he had a level of restraint that was intentional in part because Tatum wasn't there. It was almost like he realized that he was the lone adult, like watching over everything, and he decided to be more careful with how he approached. There was that one play late in the

game where he was going to go for the three, but then wisely made a decision consciously. You could see like the wheels just spin and be like, no, this isn't the right shot to take. Let the close out come. He drove and then the big collapse on him. He had drew Holiday for a pretty nice time down low. And I was like, oh, that's like the type of floor game that we typically see from Tatum. was, but it just felt like he was like the one connecting all the dots for everything that they were doing. Yeah, I think you're right about the patience and restraint, especially, you know, it's been a few days of people everywhere complaining about this guy's handle or lack thereof in this series. Like, yo, this guy can't dribble seriously. And tonight, he was just methodical

attacking, you know, the favorable nick matchups that he had. I thought he did an excellent job of getting downhill. Again, bro. broken record with the Celtics, but yeah, getting to the paint matters. Yeah, Drew Holiday, you're bigger than a lot of the guys on the Knicks. Get to the freaking pain and get downhill on these guys. I thought Jalen Brown was excellent at perfectly calibrating that. And, you know, it's the Celtics. You're not going to hesitate to fire when you have a wide open three.

And you're Jalen Brown and you have a high quality jump shot. So, yeah, I thought the patience was very telling. He didn't seem rushed. He's like, you know what? I know what the help's coming from? If they don't send it, I'm going to be able to battering bruise. these Nick defenders, even somebody like Josh Hart, who I think is a stout defender, Jalen Brown is just way bigoted than this dude.

Speaking of Josh Hart, the only questionable decision Brown probably made was giving him the old corkscrew. That was something. The shoving match, like, what was he thinking there? I would love to know the thought process. We got to get the full J.B. comments on that one. That was a move of some kind. Give him the old doorknob or I don't know what you're calling that one, but,

Man, I guess it was effective. Incredibly strange plays. It's like Josh Hart on the receiving end of some serious blows in this game. Like Josh Hart played a sensational game within it was like a race against the clock because he got smacked so hard across the brow. His face was gushing blood. And then the rest of the game was like, can you finish this in time before your eyes swell shut? And yet here's Josh Hart making all the usual Josh Hart plays, nailing the threes that you mentioned was.

Like he came up huge for the Knicks. It's just ultimately they didn't quite. have enough against the Celtics team that really had to redefine everything that they were doing without Jason Tatum. Clearly, they're playing their same style, like they know what they want to do, but Jalen Brown has to be that measured adults in the way that we described and can't just be the sort of like mercurial wildcard element that he is in some of the other games where he's really successful. Derek White had to really put his foot on the gas. And he was amazing. He was awesome.

Looking like Hellburton out there. Can he just do this? Like can Derek White just put up all-star numbers whenever he wants. I honestly think he might be able to, but he has to kind of override the sort of mental restraint of like, I'm going to take some shots that are not great shots. I'm going to force it a little bit, especially from three, such a good shooter.

And they need him to be that without Jason Tatum. So what I thought was interesting to, and I think you guys are getting to this, like the Knicks weren't sure how they wanted to guard Watson today. No. If you watch Game 4, they obviously, like, they had decided how they're going to handle every single pick and roll combination,

every single off ball screen, every single pin down. Like they had a plan for what they would do when Tatum would screen for Brown or Horford would screen for Tatum or whatever. It didn't seem like they had a fixed plan about how they wanted to handle every single sort of offensive action. And they were giving up layups off for the pick and roll. So many dunks. So many guys coming wide open for threes.

I would expect that that gets tightened up, you know, as the series goes on. But it's definitely something that I noticed. It felt like their defense was not completely nailed down in terms of how they wanted to try to stop these guys, which I think was a major factor. And, you know, Derek White, God bless him. I don't think of them as a guy who just goes out and get 40 when he feels like it. But he felt like that guy tonight. He certainly did.

I think, too, that three-guard look for the Celtics in particular is still quite a bit different from how they usually look with Tatum and Brown out there or some combination thereof out there, having White and Pritchard and Holiday plus Jalen Brown plus one of Luke Cornett and Al Horford. That really kind of broke the game open a little bit for Boston. And that's the kind of thing where you're right. Like on film,

you're going to figure out ways to take things away from Peyton Pritchard, who was also really good in this game. You're going to find ways to close the windows on Derek White to make life more challenging for Jalen Brown, like make his reads a little more complicated. There's a lot on film, I think, for the Knicks to uncover in terms of how they can approach this stuff.

Yeah, it was unfortunate that it took a little while. It took basically KP being having to be sat at half in order for them to pivot to the one big lineup. Because to start off with double bigs, when Peyton Pritchard at the very least played so well in the previous game. I was just so disappointed because that is so often the muscle memory that Joe Missoula turns to. And it just wasn't the right move. And it felt like at the very least, like he was able to get it off it quick enough that it didn't damage them. But part of it was probably white just hitting those first four threes and everything opened up from there. But it just also was like there was more intentionality.

There was more flow and just more physicality and purpose to everything that the Celtics were doing offensively in a way that they hadn't had this entire series at this point. I think that's such a trap too in terms of the rotation stuff. Like on one level, you can look at the Celtics who are actually going to play in this game and say, okay, well, we have, if Chris Haps Porzingis is going to play and clearly they were planning for the idea that he might at least give it a go, you want to have Luke Cornett. off the bench. You know, like you can kind of balance your rotation, your best players to have a good like toggling between starters and bench. And you could go through kind of the same mental dynamic with Peyton Pritchard. It's like if you start him, then all of a sudden you don't have any ball handlers on your bench. All of a sudden you don't have that in reserve. These are the playoffs. Like you just like one of those three guards gets an early hook. They're all going to play huge

minutes. Peyton Pritchard played huge minutes in this game. If you want to, if you want to start him and play the first four and then give him the quick hook, love the other two guards. play and then toggle in and out as you go. Like there just needs to be more ball handling on the floor. There needs to be more shot creation on the floor. And I thought in particular, like we already kind of hammered KP who just wasn't good and is clearly ill. When he and Al were on the floor together, they were just like stepping all over each other.

Like they just, for two guys who have played together a lot in their careers or at least a fair amount, given what KP's injuries have allowed over these last two years, just didn't seem like they knew where to be. And that was a huge problem in and of itself. Yeah. I'm pretty much done with Hacker Robinson at this point. He made all six of his free throws. Put it to bed.

We salute you, Mitch. I get it. It just, that's the type of thing I don't want to see in a closeout game. You're almost like adding this chaotic element into what you're doing and everything was going so well. Yet they kept going for it until he made all six of them. Just no more. I'm dumb.

I don't want to see it. I mean, I have no argument. Clearly, clearly Joe Muzul on some level agrees because he did. It's not basketball. So, yeah, I would love to. to see it legislated out. But at the same time, he made the free throw. So hopefully that'll be a deterrent enough.

So Rob, if you're Tibbs right now and you're grinding through the tape, you're probably on hour three because the game was over three hours ago, what are you seeing? Like, what are we doing differently? I think a lot of it is the way you're responding, the way your team is rotating and how you're sort of tailoring that away from the Jason Tatum version of the Celtics into this version of the Celtics. I thought Waz nailed it. Like the number of run away.

place. Coming out of like pretty simple screening action tells me this is just not a team that's anticipating the correct threats that understands like where the priorities are on the floor and they're overreacting to stuff like hugging up on shooters and underreacting to, I don't know, like the seven foot dude who's a foot away from the basket and you can throw a lob to. Like I think a lot of it is just prioritization and understanding, okay, the terms of engagement here have changed and yes, we want to attend to all these shooters. Yes, we want to stick with all these actions. but you got to hammer down your actual paint defense first, and you got to make sure you're taking away the easiest possible looks,

because this is still a Celtics team that can be susceptible to settling for some shots it shouldn't, and in fact probably should settle for some of those shots under the circumstances. Like the bar has changed for Boston in terms of what their best case looks are going to look like. And so with that, you can play into those tendencies if you're in New York, I think. We didn't end up talking about Tatum because we weren't recording in the next couple days. I like the fact that they were able to bounce back so resolutely in this game. It almost felt like they weren't affected by it at all.

If anything, it was a galvanizing effect. But obviously, huge loss was. I'm almost like still wrapping my mind around it because it's the type of thing that will not only affect one of the main contenders in the NBA, but it will also ripple out to the rest of the league. Like, this is the potentially changing the face of the title race for perhaps maybe two even longer seasons, depending on how extreme the Celtics get with their offseason moves. Yeah, I think there was an idea that the two Jays were, you know, basically nailed to the floor of the franchise and everything else had the possibility

to be moved on from. And you wonder if that becomes expedited because it's like Jason Tatum's contract is on the books. So that means you're going to pay that crazy tax bill. And it's like without having the benefit of a legitimate bonafide championship threat. So you wonder if they even accelerate the plan to sort of wind down this great team even faster. That's what I was wondering because, you know, I think there's a way a team like this would just be stubborn and be like the 93-94 Bulls. after Jordan retired, obviously that's a different circumstance.

And just be like, whatever, we still have a great culture. We still have great players on this team. We're going to be hella competitive in the Eastern Conference, even with our roster being what it is, and just keep going. But like, the number of years that they've been paying into, you know, this tax and this onerous ass, you know, second apron and all this crap that the owners begged for, it just makes it seem like what would be the point of that?

Like outside of just being like, this is our culture, money be damned. We're good. Like the team that we just saw tonight, why can't they be that good in the regular season next year? Yeah. Right? If the new owner wants to endear themselves to the fans, be like, we're not folding up the tent. We're bringing our guys back and we're going to have a great season next year and be just as competitive in all of that stuff. And then we're back into championship mode as soon as,

JT comes back. I think the real problem it presents, and we've been talking about this for a while, and you were kind of alluding to it there was as far as like, you're going to have to make financial decisions on some of these guys at certain points, and we've already heard the whispers. What are you talking about? You got a free agent Luke Cornett. You got a free agent Al Horford.

Also, like, between like the Dr. Holiday decision, like the finances of this were already that kind of pinch. And what this changes to me is at this point, not only do you have the financial pinch, you have the time pinch. Like Al Horford and Drew Holiday two of the most important members of your team are no longer on Jason Tatum's timeline. Like Jason Tatum is going to miss probably all of next season,

maybe even some more time after that as far as like getting right and looking like Jason Tatum again. Al Horford is 38 years old. Drew Holiday is 34 years old and already showing like a little bit of being 34 years old. By the time Jason Tatum looks like Jason Tatum, those two guys are not going to be as important to your team anymore. And yet they may still be quite expensive for your team. So how you navigate that is

quite thorny. And on top of that, Christops, Brzingis, going to be 30 in August, you might be saying, like, oh, that's young enough to where, like, maybe there's a runway for when Tatum comes back, but obviously the injuries are mounting concerns to the point where we don't know what we're going to get from every season, also in expiring next year. Even I think that, I think the tension point is really Derek White, because he's the type of guy under no circumstances would a winning team want to just fork over. But you have to, I think, start to consider. that like at a certain point we need to reboot in order to hit the second phase of tatum do we actually want to get ahead of that because also when you're thinking about the transaction math of all

this like how much are you getting back for drew how much are you getting back for prozingis considering his injury history some of these other guys are just like kind of rotation players and so like would they go out and trade white because I think like as I'm talking through this in my head I'm starting to wonder if brown is actually the guy that you can't trade if only because he's the one that perfectly aligns with Tatum's timeline. Like when Tatum comes back two seasons from now, he's going to be late 20s, early 30s. Like, he will be the one ready to run. And so I also think you get into the issue of like, who wants to trade for Brown

considering he's making super max money, but isn't one of the like five to 10 game changing players in the NBA. And so like, I guess this is a long-winded way of saying, like, I actually think Brown, oddly enough, is the guy you don't trade when for a while it seemed like inevitably because he makes so much you might have to. Yeah. I think it would be insane to move on from Brown to, like, not believe that you can eventually put an absolute bona fide contender back together

around Tatum and Brown. I think Tatum is young enough where I think he's going to come back and be a bona fide all-star starter type of player when he comes back and get right. I just think he's going to modify his game. Yeah. I think it's going to be more, you know, interior. are oriented. And I don't want to be hot taking it.

I think this might be a blessing for his actual approach to the game where it's just like, you know what? Let me just go out and be stronger and bigger than every single wing that I go up against. And I think his game would benefit from that response instead of being like, yo, I'm not the dude that tries to dance on the perimeter that much anymore. And yeah, like, if things go well,

Jason Taden was going to be back in October of 26. It's just a year. just a year without, without the guy. And, you know, they could look forward to being like 2026, 27. We're going to be back to trying to compete for the NBA championship again. I do think we kind of zoomed into the team building part of this. Like, this does just suck. Like, it sucks seeing any player go down.

Jason Tatum, I know, absorbs a lot of criticism, a lot of concern trolling, a lot of grief about who he is as a person and the way he presents himself in the nature of his game. And we, like, we participate in some of that on this podcast. fundamentally he's a top five or so player in the NBA and he's the guy who shows up and fucking place like he does not miss games he plays huge minutes loads carries an incredible responsibility

for a landmark franchise in the NBA like it is never lost on me how much he puts on his shoulders and how successful ultimately he's been to this point crowned with the title last season and it sucks that we don't get to see the Celtics get a proper defense of that title granted they were probably going to lose that game

that he went down against like to the next anyway. They were going to be in the 3-1. It was on its way to being cooked. Yeah. It definitely seemed that way. But, like, maybe they have a chance to come back from 3-1. Like, let's see the championship resolve.

I would have been like, I don't know. They're that kind of team. Like, with Tatum, they're that kind of team. And without him, as we're saying, we're just going to have to radically rethink the way we categorize the Boston Celtics within the landscape of the league and kind of like what they're going to be capable of for the next year plus. And to Justin's point, if I'm trying to say, shed salary on this team.

I'm not looking at Derek White. Like Drew Holiday and KP figure it out. Figure out how to get rid of one of those dudes or both. Derek White can't be the guy that walks out the door. I think it could change maybe how they view what they're looking for in return. Like can you actually think about traffics now? Because now we're like looking maybe three years ahead. We're like looking to hit the ground run.

If anything, this is maybe a silver lining that like they had to reboot in some former fashion. It's actually harder coming off a second title to. be like, shit, we got to trade Drew Holiday now just because we can't afford him. Like that the discussion becomes a little bit more easy to talk yourself into there. But I will say, it was odd in a good way that when they announced that Tatum was out, they announced that he had surgery, which was like the next day after, I've never seen a player suffer an Achilles tear. And then the following day already have surgery to the point where they can announce that.

And so like clearly he's going to hit the ground running from this. like he's just a maniac worker and so like I doubt like he won't be all star level or anything like catastrophe like that but it sucks because like you were saying for the past what half decade plus of NBA basketball this guy has been consistent because he's always playing there's just going to be such a void because he's just not going to be out there it's just going be weird yeah it's going to be very weird I mean it's going to be weird in the eastern conference in general figuring out like who the kind of tent pole teams are going to be the calves just that's that's how it's howler is how it's howler is howler is how it

Music. Your words not mine, Waz. I'm just saying like the Cavs furreded away

their season. The Celtics are going to be a change team for the near future. There's a, there's a lot of

opportunity here, whether it's for the Knicks, whether it's for the Pacers. He's getting traded to the West. Maybe.

Cooper Flagg going to Dallas. Like, can we get just like one guy into the Eastern Conference? God damn.

We're going to talk about that later. I do want to talk about that because the imbalance is just so fucking nuts at this point. This episode

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Congrats to them. A convincing win, I guess, in game five question mark, or it was a convincing win. They let it slip away and then ended up with a moderately convincing win. How are you feeling wise about the wolves overall? Did they talk you into them being like a legitimate finals contender at this point? I know about like just based on purely on math. Yeah, they're in the conference final. And there's one.

We like their chances, you know. They're in the conference finals, so they're legit. It's just, I can't shake the feeling of the game one that I watched with step on the floor. Like, it felt like these guys were ready for this challenge. And the fact that Steph Curry just goes down with an injury after one quarter of this series. Like, I know it would have been nice for us as fans to see that group that remained make Minnesota sweat more. I just think it was just a tall task to be like Jimmy Butler and Pajemski and Cominga and Moses Moody. Like these guys, Buddy Healed were going to beat Minnesota in this series.

Granted, again, I think they should have made them sweat more. I think Golden State could have played much better even, you know, considering the circumstances. But this series was decided for me. I knew stuff wasn't coming back. This, like, these hamstring things take forward. forever to heal. And guys come back after a month off. Then three games in, tweaked again, you know?

Like, I just knew Steph was gone. So I kind of, like, lost interest in the idea that this series could be meaningful in any way. So, like, Minnesota's done their part. They beat the hell out of the Lakers. Okay? They got a diminished goal in state team. So what? They beat the hell out of them.

And now they're sitting pretty just waiting for the winner of that bloodbath of the series on the other side of the game. a bracket. I would say they have a pretty vested interest in who they should want the winner of that series to be. Of course. Not just because of the regular season series in which the wolves were quite successful against the Nuggets, but in this

game, the wolves turn the ball over on like 20% of their possessions. Yeah, Golden State's pretty good at that. Imagine Oklahoma City like translating the problems to that series. The wolves are a team that for all of their strengths, and there are many of them and I want to get into them, they will

inevitably blunder. Like they're just going to do it. They're going to throw the ball all over their place. They're going to make some very weird decisions. Ant got ripped twice at the top of the floor by Buddy Heald and Moses Moody. That's insane. Like that's just stuff that's going to happen with the wolves. And so yeah, against Denver, I think they are going to

fare pretty well. Like we've seen that matchup before. Granted without Cat and now with Julius Randall and Dr. Devenchinsa, like that's a meaningful shift. Oklahoma sees a very different proposition for them that I don't love how they match up there. You know, I've had this feeling burbling deep inside the guts that like

I don't know. It feels like this is the wolves year. You know? And I hear the logical case that the thunder are a bad matchup for them. But as things were rolling, let's say the third quarter, I was like, I see it. I see the vision. And especially if like the thunder aren't hitting maybe the size advantage of a Rudy comes more to bear as opposed to like all their drivers attacking Rudy. Now you have the advantage of having size. Obviously the wolves have the marriage of size plus athleticism on the perimeter. Whereas a lot of the Thunder players a little bit more life, a little bit more easy to push around.

I'm like, I can see Ant superstar. Obviously, they're dealing, they're struggling with Yokic being the superstar. Can Ant play somewhere near that level in order to take over a series? The vision is there, but then, man, then the fourth quarter comes. Oh, my God.

And it's like the seventh turnover for Ian. I'm like, that's going to be 14 turnovers against a Thunder team that's just like, this is what they do. Again, I don't count Minnesota out of a series against anybody. Obviously, Denver, they've kicked their asses up and down the court

for like seven straight games now, it feels like. And, you know, we're watching The Thunder show their vulnerability in this Nugget series, right? So I think they have a great shot as anybody, you know, I would say, right? They have as good a shot as anybody to get to the finals, in my opinion, right? I don't see like an OKC series

as like some crazy lopsided series. Like, say, Minnesota and a diminished, you know, Golden State, right? Where it's just like, it's so obvious the disadvantages. That being said, it's just, I don't know, man. I don't know if I could trust these guys over the course of a damn conference finals. That's what it is. And it is not overwhelming.

You're right. I wouldn't think the Thunder would be crazy favorites. Those are going to be lopsided games. It's just like when push comes to shove, what do you trust? And there are these two incredibly distinct versions of the wolves. And one of them is just tripping over themselves on possession. They have no business doing it. And one of them looks like the best team in NBA.

One of them shot 36 of 47 from 2 in this game. 77 fucking percent from 2. They just looked like the bigger, more physical, like, demolishing team in a matchup like this where they had every reason to do it. And like Julius Randall, yeah, the shot's going to come and go. Bodying guys is forever. Rudy Gobert, I thought, had a really strong offensive game, but also obviously was so instrumental to their defense.

I thought his help was tremendous. Jade McDaniel's help was tremendous. These guys felt really, really connected at certain points and really, really out of their minds at other points. And like, that's a tough team to bet on in the conference finals. But if you get more of one than the other, all of a sudden, you're in the finals. You get more of one and the other again.

All of a sudden, you're champions. Like, crazier things have happened. Bodying guys is forever. Do we need like a Julius Randall Nike ad with that? Would you guys buy his shoes? Send me, send me a quote, you know? Let me get involved over there. his Skechers. I forgot he's a Skechers guy.

He's a Skechers guy still. He's a Skechers guy. Yeah. Okay. Never mind. I don't want to be involved with Skechers. Sorry. I will say yet again, we talked about it. Pretty much every pod we've talked about the wolves. Like Julius Randall, man, he's gone from like, oh, is this contract not going to be that bad to like, oh, like, they got to bring him back. He's playing pretty well to like, is he like actually the driving force of this fucking team? $50 million a year?

he's essential to this team in a way that I never expected. Yes. I have no idea what, like, forget the real world implications, Justin. What is going to happen to Julius Randall in our next top 100 voting? Is he going to be like the 15th best player in the NBA? Because he's played like the 15th best player in the NBA. The Julius Randall yo-yoing on that list is hilarious because one year he's 60. The next year he's in the top 20 and making all NBA teams.

Just wild flings for him. But, I mean, it's deserved it because that is typically how his seasons go from one to the next. He's just been spectacular. We've talked about the context mattering. Like, as soon as Jimmy Butler gets thrust into being like the number one option, it's like, eh, not really cut out for this anymore, right? And same thing could be said for Randall when he was the number one option in New York. But now, man, working off of the ant, and they've built like a legitimate chemistry.

And synergy, like, these guys are, like, locked in is that they've been playing for five years? It's insane. Like, this Julius Randall playoff run, it needs to be studied. Because this guy has been one of the best guys in the playoffs. Like, think about all the things we've said about somebody like Evan Mowgli this year. Yeah.

And the kind of player he's been MVP almost nipping at the buds of like, the heels, excuse me, of MVP candidacy, right? Like top seven, top eight, whatever, best record in the Eastern Conference. Julius Randall has blown that man out the water in the playoffs. It's not even been close, dude. And like, you go team by team and say that about a bunch of guys who are bona fide stars in the NBA. He outplayed LeBron James the round before. Yeah.

Like, it's crazy, dude, how well this guys play. Here's what it is. Like, there's going to be the plays every game where Julius Randall hits some crazy shots. Like, that's going to happen. Whenever he makes a three, I shake my head. I'm like, Jesus Christ. I mean, you can see, like, Dremont's making decisions with that.

Like, we're just going to give up some of these threes. It's going to be what it is. There's shots on the other end of the spectrum where he's just going to do a couple things every game that's like, why did you just throw the ball into the third row? Like, I have no idea what you saw on that play. Everything in the middle has been kind of the battleground for him. And during his lesser seasons and previous seasons,

too many of those possessions were just like a little too empty, a little too empty calorie, a little too much settling. he's just relentless getting into the paint right now. And I think it's been a similar thing with Ant honestly where, yeah, like, Ant has seven turnovers in this game, but he has 12 assists in this game. And the 12 assists looked as simple as anything ever did in this series for the wolves.

Like very basic, like I'm going to explode past a primary defender. I'm going to get into the paint. I'm going to draw help. Jane McDaniels dunk. Like just very simple read and react stuff that Anthony Edwards opens up those sorts of world of, like that world of possibilities because of everything he can do.

I think that's where you're seeing those two guys thrive. It's like, yeah, they're going to have turnovers. They're going to have some mistakes. They're going to have some exceptional plays in the middle, in the thick of it. They're just making more winning plays than I think either of those guys ever have before. And that's coming off of an already quite successful run for Ant last year. If we get the final four that we're expecting. So if the Knicks win, if the Thunder end up beating Denver, they're up three two right now,

we'll have three teams that are benefiting from last year's Knicks team, which is wild to think that last year's Nick's. team, which hobbled into the second round and couldn't make it past the Pacers, or basically the epicenter for, like, the talent boom in this year's playoffs. But, like, I keep finding myself thinking, like, damn, if they just rolled it back and they couldn't because of the way Hartenstein's contract was set up, they couldn't really match what any team was going to offer. If they just had that team back and didn't have to do all these wild things in order to plug that hole, like, God damn, that team would have been pretty damn. Hartinstein, I don't think there was any world in which

they could bring him back. Couldn't happen. But, like, boy, if they were not looking at Julius Randall right now with hard eyes, like, damn, that would have been nice to have the dude that's in Minnesota right now. But, Kat's been pretty good. Like, I really don't have a problem with Katz. It's more like an alternate timeline. Sure, sure. And their contracts are not comparable, though. That's the thing.

And, like, you know, and you get to keep your DeVincenzo, Nova Nick, you know. Yeah. You don't have that fucking commercial? We have a whole other set of commercials if he's still a Nick. This is the worst year for NBA commercials In the history of NBA commercials The Wendy's commercial that has the doorbell ring You are fucking with my dog

Like seven times a night Every time he hears that ring Because it's the same one I have on my doorbell My dog's like, what's going on? Who's here? Apologize to my dog, Wendy. Whoever that marketing exec that came up with that J.B got a JV got a bonus picket with you

Well this is an easy solution. Mute your TV Listen to a podcast while you're watching why's this thing up? That's right. Got one on Vietnam handy. But on the Devenchenzo. I was listening to a podcast about the new Jake Tapper book. Hmm.

Yeah. Somehow that's even weird. Very quite interesting. Is it? A podcast about the new book? So it was an interview with Jake Tapper? It would be like, do we want to get into this? No, we don't want to get into it.

I can't want to get into it. We don't want to get into it. Post show. I would love to hear about it. I was going to say on the Devencenzo front, I thought this game was by far his best minutes of the series. That's a guy who they need to continue to play well. That was a huge development.

Like lots of kudos to go around for the wolves. Mike Conley had an exceptional scoring game. I thought McDaniels was like just awesome defensively and their coordination defensively, as is often the case with the wolves. Just top marks. Really, really good stuff. And just to square the circle on the Julius Randall,

Nick's stuff like this, he never shown this form in the history of his career. Okay. Like, there's no way the Knicks or Leon Rhodes or anybody should have expected that had they kept Julius Randall, he would be this freaking awesome in the playoffs. So he needed the change of scenery more than that. Such his life, bro. That plus the money motivator probably got him to this point and everyone's better off for it. Bag fuel. Well, speaking of bag fuel, we should talk about the other side of the ledger here.

Who had the best don't trade me to Milwaukee this offseason game? Was it Brandon Projemsky this game or Jonathan Kaminga the previous game? I think that ship has sailed for Jonathan Kaminga. Yeah. He might be, he might need to get a real estate agent. It might be time for him to start looking elsewhere outside of Golden State. I think Pajemski, man, like he's fine, you know, like he's a fine enough. enough role player. I think sometimes he's just asked to do way more than he's clearly like can shoulder.

But, um, Cominga, I just, I'm done with it. Done with it. I think Golden State probably will be as well. Like financially, it just isn't going to make sense for them to bring him back on a new deal.

He's going to be a free agent restricted. Hold on, Rob, if Caminga was like, Tommy for three years, 45 million player option after two. too. That would require a level of self-awareness that I don't think Jonathan Cominga has demonstrated. I think it would require a lot of therapy for Steve Kerr because he's already playing through to the Pajemski experience and he yanked him fucking hard after he threw that bad pass off a jump pass.

I don't think he could do another year of Cominga. It just seems like that guy is going to drive him up a wall. I think it's going to be better for everybody if Cuming and the Warriors part ways. is Pajemski. Pajemski is fascinating because in some ways he profiles as such a Steve Kerr player and in other ways he absolutely does not. And you see that conflict with them all the time in the rotation. You see it in terms of when he's being trusted versus when he's not.

Credit to Brandon Pajemski for actually hitting real basketball shots in this game. The ball went through the hoop for basically the first time all series because when he's not hitting, he's kind of a mess out there sometimes. Like they really needed this from somebody and so it was important to get it from him. but he is who he is. And that's like a fairly useful but somewhat limited role player. Well, we should assemble our Warriors War Room here because we have to talk about their future ahead.

In some ways, it's kind of already been defined by the Jimmy Butler trade because they don't even really have contracts in order to go out and swing for like a Kevin Durant or something like super extreme. I think people have been whispering about the Janus Warriors, Steph Curry connection for 20 years at this point. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen because it's not in the cards for a variety of reasons one they just just don't have anything that would interest Milwaukee when there's going to be like 20 bitters this summer um but it does feel like they need like two to three rotation players because what they were short is just like any goddamn offense when step went out obviously step presumably will be back next year and so that'll be mitigated to a certain extent but like just having like three more guys and all of a sudden rob this seems more interesting to me it does but they're going to have pretty meager resources to get those three other guys like to get those three other guys like to get

get three potential, like useful offensive players with basically veteran minimums, basically like the taxpayer, mid-level, they're not going to have a lot to roll the dice with here, depending on how some of these other free agencies break.

And they're already having to, like pay guys who are quite important to their team. You know, guys like Gary Payton, guys like Kavanaugh-Luny, like they need them too, in addition to the scores they want to bring in. And so then all of a sudden, you're starting just like look around

at this year's free agent class, which is not the most overwhelmingly talented class I've ever seen. and say, who is the guy in this group that's going to take the veteran minimum to play for the Warriors to come off the bench and, like, hit some shots? And I'm sure there's a guy in that bunch who will fit that description. I'm just not sure it's going to be someone's going to blow you away. Yeah, I think they got a hope that the post kid who's been trashed in the playoffs. He's had his moments in the playoffs.

Okay, sure. He's had some moments, that is fair. He's looked like a rookie big. in a lot of these cases. And we can't just, what I was going to say, like, you can't just say, like, oh, like, this means he can't be good next year. I think, like, they got a hope on that guy's development.

And, you know, pray that Guy Santos is something. Like, I think it's on some internal development kind of thing. Yeah. And hopefully one or two miracle veterans that they get to come. And you'd be like, holy smokes, this guy's going to come in and be perfect for what the warriors are trying to do. Here's what I would hope for. If I'm laying out the canvas of what we want to accomplish here,

the big swings are off the table. I just want to trade young and potential for veterans who know what the fuck they're doing. And so if I have a list and I have like a short list here, first and foremost, I'm checking in with the nets. Apparently I can only make trades with just them because after the genet, then a shooter move, we're going back to the well. Cam Johnson makes a ton of sense. Big shooter would be a little concerned

that he reverts back to two seasons ago As opposed to last seasons But like he's a guy that can score When you need to score He's a Steve Kirk on a player 100% million percent Size not buddy healed level Streaky

He's just going to be an upgrade And in every regard What about Stephen Adams Can I interest you in a former Warriors combatant In that long ago Western Conference finals Now he's just like a guy

who's going to give you physicality off the bench. He's the new Looney. Does that interest you at all? I mean, not just physicality off the bench, too. Like, Steven Adams is a little bit of like Dremont high post distribution to his game. Like, he's a little bit of a midpoint between Luni and Dremont in some ways. So they need a center. Like a real bona fide actual seven-footer who can play 20 minutes a game, you know?

Like, they really need that. Like, they're overstretching the bounds of what Dremont could do at his age, man. at the five. So, like, yeah, they need a bona fide center. And, you know, like, they're going to, like, somebody else besides Steph Curry who can make a three-point shot. That has to be in this freaking rotation. I think by extension of the Draymond thing, too, like, you need to be very careful next regular season that you're not wearing Draymond out, playing him at the five. You also need to be very careful.

You're not wearing Jimmy out playing him at the four. Like, having all three of those guys is helpful to kind of distribute some of the responsibility, but you're going to need, like, rock solid, very available role players. And this is where the veteran part of that conversation gets a little thorny, Justin, where it's like, yes, you could sign and trade Kuminga for a lower ceiling kind of veteran contributor. But you better make sure that veteran contributor

has like a pretty clean, like injury record. Like you want somebody who's going to be out there. I think Golden State is going to be really good next year. I think so too. Like really, really good when they have all of these guys together. And it's a shame that the deal happens. freaking late that this scrub-ass team that they put around stuff, they had to basically play a month and a half for their playoff lives, you know, basically tiring these guys out

before they, you know, go into a freaking seven-game series with a bunch of 23-year-olds who are playing balls to the wall every second of a game. I think next year, man, with a new training camp, I think they'll be even more crisp in terms of the chemistry between Jimmy, Draymond and Steph. I really do think Golden State is going to be a really good team next year. Yeah, it's hard to look at them

in the future and be like they're not going to be in the mix. Unfortunately, when the spurs then trade for Janus, it seems to be like assemble the Voltron that just smashes the world. It's going to get. What is the mix anymore? In a world where Janus is a spur, like the bar would move so substantially.

But right now, we're seeing like a healthy Warriors team, and a healthy wolf's team. Like, that's a good fight. That would have been a good series if Steph was out there. The Nuckets and the Thunder are not that far apart.

Like, that's a really competitive series. Like, all four of those teams and maybe even some more that are on the outside looking in who are going to be better next year. Like, they're all kind of in the same grouping. And I think Golden State has a chance to make some inroads.

It's going to depend on who's healthy and when what kind of minor additions they can make along the periphery. And I think they're going to need one, like one surprise signing to pop. You know, whether it's an undrafted guy, whether it's somebody who hasn't had a reputation. of being terribly productive.

They need a Bialitza. That's exactly what they mean. I mean, even he had some moments as it came. They still having nightmares about that dude. If Post isn't the new Bializa, I don't know who is. I mean, that's a fair point. But they need the new new Bialica. Okay.

Since we're already talking around the draft lottery, why don't we pivot there? Just absolutely incredible night. Like, you think that you've seen it all, and then the Luca trade happens, and then you think you've seen it all, And then the Mavs shoot up to number one. Rob, take us through how you're feeling.

Specifically, your friend who we checked on a couple episodes ago, a couple months ago, what's like the vibe now? Are people happy about it or are they still reconciling with what just happened? See, I almost don't like that you set it up that way because that friend, my friend Michael, since I've mentioned him on this pod, has been like, jonesing for more shoutouts. He's gotten greedy with the shoutouts. I almost want to reject the premise. That said, in this case, the mass.

has been the lottery, I get a call from him, just, just cackling. I can't even hear a word. Just literally cackling. What, just like as fucking strange, a series of events as you can imagine, any team going through in about a three to four months span. There is no righteousness in the world. It doesn't make sense. And this, like, there's one fundamental reason why the Mavs would never trade this

pick and should never trade this pick for anybody, Janus included. This is the one thing that bails out. trading a superstar as young as Luca. Like getting a white American superstar. I wasn't going to say that. I was going to say someone as talented as Cooper Flag coming in at 18 years old, getting the youth that's now going to carry you

in a post-Anthony Davis post-Kyrie Irving era, there was no other way for the Mavs to get that other than this. And there was a 1.8% chance of that happening. But Rob, this is Texas. What about the double down? Double down on the Luca deal. Get another star in there. You know what I mean?

Maybe you can trade Cooper for Austin Reeves. Like go back for what you didn't get the first time. I mean, Cooper is a maniac. He's going to fit exactly what they would need. I mean, I've only seen. Nico Harrison is going to fall in love with that kid.

He definitely has mama mentality. Isn't a Nike guy, unfortunately. So maybe they do end up trading him. But is he too new balance? Is he in that group? He's a new balance guy. Yes.

New England guy, man. The rise of the New Balance guys, the Skechers guys. It's a real day for alternative athletic way. All right. So what happens now in Dallas? So you have been gifted something, probably not from the gods. I guess we're looking more downward for the help here. He fits exactly with what they're going for.

We're talking about intensity. We're talking defense. We're talking about like power forward size players. Now they have yet another one of them. I assume they're going to keep going along with Anthony Davis starting at power forward. So Cooper probably slots in at the three, you could just pencil in lively, hopefully back from his injury at center. Like, how does this change the calculus you think, Rob, in terms of like what they're thinking this offseason? I think there's two things that shift.

One, a PJ Washington trade feels pretty much inevitable. Not that BJ Washington's not good, but you've just been replaced by Cooper Flag. And most importantly, this is a team that needs playable guards so badly. Yeah. This is a complete list of the players on the. Mavericks roster under contract who their best position is in the back court period either guard position. We're going to put Kyrie Irving to the side because he's still rehabbing.

We don't know what his status is going to be for the majority of next season. The guards they have, Brandon Williams, Spencer Dinwiddie, Jaden Hardy, Max Chrissy, end of list. Those are their guards. Najee Marshall? I would say, I would say Najee Marshall's best as a three. Yes, I agree. Best as a three. Similarly with Clay, like they're going to, they can.

get away with faking some of this stuff, but they just need backcourt help in such a desperate way that one, PJ Washington could easily be moved for that. I also think this is a maybe subtler, but also meaningful nudge for a Daniel Gafford trade as well, given that the Mavs are probably not going to reinvest in a future Daniel Gafford deal. This would be the time to trade him. I'm sure the Lakers will come calling. I'm sure other teams will come calling. He's going to make sense for a lot of groups out there who are looking for a backup energy center, who's a good rim protector and finisher. He could make sense for a lot of teams. they just have too much stuff going on in the front court now.

If Cooper flag, Anthony Davis, Derek lively, or your 3, 4, 5, like, you got to get back court help specifically until Kyrie gets back. Yeah, I wonder if Gafford can be dangled for some help. I'd be making calls on Gafford yesterday. This is already buzzed. I think he wants starter money, and you're already seeing, like, the rumors where it's like, oh, Gafford here or there?

So that seems inevitable. Is Gafford coming up on free agency or he wants an extension? He's got one more year. Yeah, one where you're under contract. I would be making phone calls on that guy ASAP because, like, obviously, you're not moving AD. No, I mean, but again, just that we're talking about- Does you imagine trading Luca freaking Donchich for a guy? And then trading AD afterwards.

Then five months later, moving the guy you moves for Luca Donch? Like, yo, bro. This reality is already stupid enough. I can't deal with that. Yeah, I know. But a Cooper flag, AD, Derek lively front court is fucking sick. Like, let's just put it out there.

That's a sick group to bank your team on. So I think we're all assuming that Kyrie will come back in some form or fashion. He has a player option this summer. Probably going to resign him. We'll see what he can give them next season. But two seasons from now, they're going to have something there. I would be targeting a guard in a trade because, as Rob mentioned, you got a nice little package there with Washington and potentially Gaffert together

or separately, where you could target a guard who will give you some offensive juice now, but ultimately I want to downshift him to the sixth man roll. Can I interest you going to see Jalen Green action? You can not. Please don't. Please don't. That's not what this team needs. I mean, maybe if like Houston trades for Janus and they have to trade Jabari, they might be interested in PJ.

I would be trying to extract Fred Van Vleet. The math there is really difficult because he's on. a team option. I think he's making a shit ton of money and so I don't know if those the line. But Fred Van Vleet's on my list, I'd be looking at like the Kobe White's of the world. It seems a little too critical to what Chicago's doing. I don't know if they need a win now

piece in PJ. What is it that Chicago's doing? I mean, at the very least, it involves White and Giddy. I don't know what happens from there. He just wants to clear out for Giddy. So get Kobe White the hell of it. I like that part of it, but I don't think they need a finishing piece in PJ.

They probably need a younger guy in White also needs to be resigned to believe in two years. So he's coming up. I also have once again, because any time we mention this player type, we have to mention Anthony Simons. That seems like a little bit cleaner of a fit if we're talking more picks rather than players.

And then you can trade PJ for something else. What about Lamello Ball? I mean, that's too ambitious. That's a lot. Apparently he's on the trade block, guys. I think that's overthinking it. You just got Cooper flag. Let's get a point guard who will.

get all the trains running on time, get everyone in their positions, and throw an entry pass. That seems like the baseline of what we're looking for. You got to be thinking cast off at this point. But look at all the optimism we're talking about. Look how much things have changed based on the one point eight percent ping pong balls. And like that one last ball was a seven and not a six or like an eight or anything like. That is the difference between the Mavs having a future as bright as anyone in the league versus what they were before. As I've been saying all along, Niko.

Harrison is a genius. Okay? They weren't actually trying to make it to the playoffs and the playing by winning that first game. This was the plan all along. He perfectly laid the foundation to 99% chance of not getting this

big. I just, I'm hoping that for the three of us, this can be our Cooper flag year. Whatever like our 1.8% probability outcome is, like, I want Justin's corn in his garden to come in like absolutely thriving state fair worthy

like ears of corn. Like I just I want the best possible performance for all of us in whatever our chosen walks of life are. I don't know what those would be. You know it's funny to, um, somebody pointed this out to me like I generally root for Danny Aang not to succeed.

Um, but Cooper flagging Utah as a story would have been something I just couldn't resist. That would have been too sweet. You don't have to worry about it anymore. Oh, damn it. Since we're talking around that, one of the questions I have down here is which lottery team outside of the top three is now the most intriguing situation. So we're going to talk about the Spurs in a little bit.

We can talk about the Sixers if you want, but that one's a little bit more cut and dry to me. Like, are any of those teams wise, are you more interested in? Like, are you, like, watching the Jazz as they try to recover from this tank and they're left with, I believe, the fifth pick in the draft? And all of a sudden it's like, what are we doing? I mean, to me, ultimately I hear like, you know, I was listening to Bill of Zach, but it's like, what have we done? What have we done? What have we done? Like, ultimately, bro, you have to be more competent than praying that that time you get the good ping pong.

There's a franchise player waiting there for you. Because wasn't, if I'm not mistaken, Jalen Green was the number two pick in the draft, y'all. He was. Like, why is me? The number two pick in the draft. guys. Like, I'm sorry, like, this idea that you somehow, oh, my roster building potential is so cooked because, no, it's not. You have to be more competent than praying that you somehow fall with the right pick and the right draft. Like, if these guys are as freaking genius as I'm

led to believe by our media brethren, these freaking GM types, then you got to be better. So I don't feel bad. I'm happy this happened. This is exactly what should be happening. Like, this idea that we had a system where just constant mediocrity and stinking to join up, you get rewarded with franchise saviors is absurd to me. Dude, like, figure it out, bro. Did the Pacers who, in their second straight conference finals? Did they get lucky with some grand ping pong ball? And, oh, so the three teams jumped ahead of us all boohoo pour me.

Like, fuck out of here with that shit. Be great, man. I don't want to hear it. Be great. Put a dope-ass team together. Be great, Kyle Filipowski. Be great, Cody Williams, you know. Figure it out.

I don't disagree with you. I am not going to be like asking for a lottery reform because I think like this might scare some team straight. I think my issue is it just kind of upset the natural balance of giving the best players to bad teams. And so now we are going to be overstocked where we might have a couple. super teams and like almost super haves and super have knots to where like the spurs even ending up with the second pick in the draft is just going to set them up in a way that they could be a colossal juggernaut even if they don't trade for yannis and then as part of that is another thing i wanted to talk about everyone is in the western conference and there's nobody in the east like like it's just like

at a certain point you do need some balance or like the playoffs are going to be just so disappointing in the eastern side of things. Can I just say that's welcome to the last 40 years of NBA basketball? Every year with a couple of historical aberrations, the Western Conference is better. I don't want to see the 1 through 16. I love my conferences.

I love the conference rivalries. Preserve tradition. We like this constantly chasing. I'm sorry. Like I'm good with how the Western conferences is rolled out. And I'm fine with the East. Like it sucks that taste.

them got hurt. I would have loved to see Tatum actually trying to come back from 3-1. But this shit, the Eastern Conference playoffs has been excellent. Like, I have no complaints whatsoever about this, man. Like, yeah, there's a couple of guys like, sorry, man, quit your job. Go get a job in the East. Sorry, GMs. Go work in the East. We're outsourcing to the Eastern Conference now. You got to go get a job over there.

I think, right. I mean, Waz the traditionalist, I think, is it just like a good stance for this podcast overall. I am a trad podcast You are a trad podcast Do we do say that about you I'm team like 1 to 16 Just because I say fuck it Like the conferences

Those rivalries don't mean a lot to me I don't think there are that many of them That are like still in existence If that happens in the next round I think it'll be cute That we'll get like the highlight real moments Wow Blagga talk

That's blogger talk That's crazy I mean wouldn't it be cool If they met in the finals instead If the rivalry is that important I guess. Sure. Sure. Listen, if the Bulls in their current state

played the pistons in their current state, are you like, let's go, history, yet again, the Eastern Conference finals from the 90s back again. Like, no, no one cares about that anymore. But things like the Nuggets and the Wolves, like having a Western Conference does make it more probable that they're bumping up against each other all the time, series after series after series.

And we're seeing, you know, Minnesota evolve. We're seeing them go get the thing that they need to counter Nicole Yokic. I think that's what we would lose a little bit, is that sort of like, Yokic's in our conference. Should we go sign Isaiah Hardenstein? Like that kind of causality would be a little bit gone

or at least a little farther afield if it's a 1 to 16. It's just for me, this feels like UCLA joining the Big Ten. Like, I just don't need it. I don't need it whatsoever. Like, I'm fine with the conferences as they are. I don't want the world versus America

in the goddamn All-Star game. Like just give me the East and West All-Stars. If the East gets their head pounded in, sorry, you guys should be more competitive. Like, play, no excuses, play like a champion. Like, I just, I don't know, man. It sounds like it's just a bunch of freaking Western Conference execs bitching about how hard it is. I mean, it is that. Yeah, that does happen.

Well, if we're going to use the Go Be Great Theory, I do think it's going to be harder for just the best teams to be on the biggest stage, where I do think we're going to have like 11 through 13 in the Western Conference, It's not even getting a playing game while like a 42 win team is like the number four seed in the Eastern Conference. And then I'm just like I want to see the best teams play the best teams when the stakes are at their highest. And so it's going to almost rob us of better competition when we want to see it the most. When we add Seattle and Vegas, can we add Minnesota to the Eastern Conference? I think it's probably Memphis is the one probably right. Memphis is definitely the one.

I mean, it doesn't even make any sense that there are a one. Just, yeah, geographically speaking, one of those two would make sense. Like, if Memphis could be a Western conference team, why can't Minnesota be an Eastern conference team? Sure. That's true. You know, get in the East. I think a lot of teams are going to be lobbying very hard to be that team. I love that.

I love that. I love that. Eastern Conference clippers. Can't wait. Just get them out there. So you would rather teams just getting in based on politics in order to get into the worst conference and all of a sudden the wolves are a dynasty because they've been in the finals, like LeBron-level. Why not?

Now we are Big 12ing it. Now we are just like college conferences at that point. Why not? I say abolish him. We've done it enough. We're screwing with the All-Star game every five months, it seems like. Let's just met this out. Now, look, in 2020-5, guys, nothing is sacred.

I promise you. Not a single thing. But this is the thing, though, with the schedule. If you keep the integrity of the 82 game schedule, how do you balance the schedule with no conferences and have traveled to consider? You can keep the, you can keep the, logistics the same as if they're east-west, but change how the playoffs are seated. You're still playing the same teams the same amount of times, I think.

Yeah. But if you're in the West, you're playing West teams more times than East teams play them. Yeah. You understand? It doesn't help. So that's why I'm just like, yo, man, this is, this is life. This is the life we chose, fellas. We chose to be NBA people.

My answer on that front was not our job to figure out the schedule, to break it into, like, arena availability. like logistically, I agree it's a nightmare. I think ultimately the answer is the season should be much shorter. It should be much less unwieldy in that direction. And then you can get into breaking it out. If we go into my round robin, every team plays each other twice, home and away. I'm fine with abolishing the conferences. Wait, we haven't heard this proposal yet.

What's the laws tournament? No, for the regular season. For the regular season. Literally just every team plays each other twice, home and away. 62 games a week. Let's keep it pushing. 100%. Yeah.

Everything can be solved in the NBA if we just had fewer games. I believe that. More we talk about it and we talk about it all the time. Yeah. Well, the one thing we didn't hit Spurs, we're kind of talking around it because it does feel like they are on the precipice of something potentially pretty special here. They end up with the number two pick. Dylan Harper is projected there. It seems like the way the draft is breaking Cooper flag clearly the number one.

Harper clearly number two separated himself from the VJ Edgecom types, the, the Ace Bailey types. You could read about all of them and Kyle Mann's draft guy, Danny Chow also helping out there. So take a look at that. I don't know, man. It just feels like this could be a game changer.

And they already had one of the best prospects in the past 50 years. Is it a game changer if they just keep the kid that was on a 10-win team? Maybe not as much. If they use him to trade for Janus, then yes. That is the scariest team.

that I've seen since the big three heat. Or other options. You know, like, I don't know who else is going to come available this summer, but like it doesn't have to only be Yonis. Yonis is a dream pairing for Victor Webminiama. Devin Booker, does that get you guys going? I think that would be pretty exciting. I think there's lots of exciting possibilities.

Ultimately, like what's happening is this. Like San Antonio already had good young players to include in a potential deal. They have a bunch of, for Yonis purposes, most importantly, have a bunch of picks that are not their own picks, right? They have a chunk of Atlanta's future. They have a future first from Boston. They have the better of Dallas or Minnesota's pick in 2030. They have a Sacramento swap in 2013.

They could always be pretty juicy. They had a lot of stuff to dangle out in a Janus trader otherwise. Now they have this very immediate asset, right? Like whatever you may think of this draft class, you have your pick of your guy who's not Cooper flag. And for a team like the Bucks that does not own its own draft future, that could be pretty appealing. That is a present tense source of hope for a team that is going to need to reset.

after Janus. And so I think this puts them into that conversation in a totally different way. Is it a spurs thing to do to trade that pick? I don't know. I think that's where we're trying to get a handle for like what this franchise is now in this era of Spurs basketball. Historically, I would say that's not really the way they operate. Historically, I'm not sure they make the Deerrin Fox trade either, to be honest with you.

And so like they're clearly like gearing up in a slightly more aggressive direction. And if you're feeling aggressive at all, and I think you should if you have Dierran Fox and Victor Webbenyama on your team. You should be blown up John Horst's phone. Like that should just be a constant dialogue as far as the Yonest piece of it. Here's the thing in the background of all of this, though, is I find myself lamenting the fact that if they go too soon, that Victor of Webonyama becomes almost the third most like forward-facing person on that team.

I've taken to our friend Isaac, who is on our editorial desk on the NBA section. I've started calling Victor Rebenyama should they trade for Janice new Oberto. Okay, come on. Which, he would just be diminished. What are you talking about? I'm not saying that you're ever playing it, but... Yes.

It's just like, I don't know, it just becomes more about this colossal juggernaut team with Janus and Foxx. And Wembe just becomes like the defensive guy who's like growing underneath them. It's like, it's fun, but it's just like, damn, I was just gearing up for this whole future of Wemby being like the face of the league

maybe that just doesn't happen. I completely disagree. He'd be like Brooke Lopez if Brooke Lopez could win MVP's like that's what that becomes to be like he would be good. Yeah it's more about like how we interface with him. Sure, sure. I mean in that regard I think it's more of a Duncan Robinson thing right?

Like it's more like oh this could be a really incredible star pairing but a new age version of that that we've never quite seen before and yeah like look you add Janus to any team Janus becomes, if not the most important, member of that entire organization, then at least second on that org chart.

I think Victor Webiniama is uniquely positioned, though. Like, he is anointed. He is already, like, such a pivotal part of their entire structure there. I think even if you do trade for someone like Janus, yes, that is a more veteran player. That's a voice in a different way where Victor is still kind of finding his

as a leader and finding his, whether it's in a press conference setting or a locker room setting, still learning to, like, command. and take on that kind of role for the spurs. But as a player, he's going to be fucking great. Like, yes, I think in some ways, maybe it tethers him more to the outside than the inside, if you pair him with Yannis.

I'm not so convinced that's a terrible thing. And defensively, I think they're just going to be, going to be, they would be unlike anything we've ever even tried to imagine before. It would be sick. It's just that classic thing of like, when you have a prospect that you draft, you want to rear him and give him every opportunity to be these. big bright shining star that you always expected him to be. And anything that disrupts that,

just like is jarring at the very least. But like Janus plus Wemby plus Fox is unbelievable. I feel like you're eating the David Thorpe royal jelly. You know, like you want those developmental opportunities for our guy Wemby. A little bit. I will say this though. I think at the deadline,

obviously Luca took like 100% or 99.9% of the oxygen of what everybody was talking about. But low key, there was at least one or two executive was like, That's all they paid for Deer and Fox. And so now that they have all of this stuff left over in addition to the number two pick, just puts them into the prime position. So it's like, yes, Luca, that was a terrible trade. But this other one, like, almost set themselves up for the follow-up move in a way that probably could have been avoided if they just picked off a little bit more from them.

Yeah. So something to tab there, but we'll keep track of that. I'm sure we'll talk about this 90 billion times over the next three months. Why don't we wrap it there? A little change in the schedule. No game on Saturday. taking the weekend off. Waz is very excited. We'll be back Monday.

I just wanted to say one thing. I want to give a shout out to my niece, Camille, who was graduated from LSU this Saturday in Baton Rouge, and I will be in attendance. So, go Tigers. Go Tigers. Yes, sir. G-E-A-U-X. Yes, sir. Nice work. Yes, sir. So notable alumni.

We're just spelling things. He's not back correctly, guys. I think it's time for us to go. Am I right? Yeah. Thank you. So we'll be back Monday as we were during the regular season. No Saturday, Pod.

We'll be recording sometime on Monday. So check it out. Ben, thank you, Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem.

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