The Ringer NBA Show - The Most Interesting Teams Ahead of the Trade Deadline. Plus, Embiid Ducks Jokic (Again). | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 28, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos join to discuss why Joel Embiid didn't play against Nikola Jokic again and have a bigger-picture conversation around load management and the NBA regular season (1:23). Then, they talk about the most interesting teams ahead of the trade deadline and start with the Lakers. They cover the D’Angelo Russell renaissance, explore a Dejounte Murray hypothetical trade, and debate what the Hawks' future should look like ahead of the deadline (13:24). Later, they celebrate the Knicks' acquisition of OG Anunoby and consider whether they should save their assets for the next star trade request or make a move right now to get better (45:34). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Carlos Chiriboga and Jack Sanders Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor. Every week for seven years, Chris Vernon and I have been discussing and debating the NBA for the Ringer. And if you didn't know it, we're now on our own podcast feed called The Mismatch. It's appropriately named because of our differing views and approaches to the NBA, whether it's news and rumors or the latest games. And I love our show because we'll go from yelling at each other about tanking to laughing about something that happened in a game the night before. It's my favorite part of every week.

So give the Mismatch a listen every Tuesday. and Friday on Spotify. Hello and welcome to group chat. Yay. I am Justin Barrier, joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. And Rob, I have to say, thank you for not ducking this podcast. I know it was tough when Waz and I did one in person,

but you showed up today, unlike Joel and Bede, and we appreciate that. I just take it as part of my personal responsibility as one of the faces of the league, you know? If I want to be big time, how could I possibly duck a chance to debate with you to exchange some takes? Really get things going here on this Sunday morning. So I have to say,

we're going to talk about the most interesting teams ahead of the deadline. We did players a few weeks ago. We're going to do teams. But I want to talk about this Joel missing in Denver once again fiasco. First and foremost, people were upset even before this happened, that they were selling this game as a rivalry. which I have to say is someone who comes up with dumb bits just for people to kind of poke holes in them.

They're missing the thread here. I don't understand why that was an issue. But then it became even more of an issue was when Embed didn't show up with what seemed to be a pretty clear injury. He tried to give it a go before the game and then he couldn't. And so to me this is a little different than the resting,

the Victor Webbenyama doesn't show up on the back end of a back-to-back, and yet here we are with outrage. Do you agree or not? I don't agree with the outrage, obviously, but it's baked into the problem with the regular season and how teams have decided to carry it for, I don't know, 10 years now. This is baked in.

Every now and again, people are going to miss a game that we think is important because they don't think the regular season is that important. And I think my biggest issue with today's NBA star is it is that lack of appreciation that they have a burden to carry and to leave the league as good, if not better than how they found it. And I don't think these guys feel that way. And I think this is part of it. Yes, these guys, they're getting as little trouble as NBA guys ever have. these guys are great spokespeople for the game. They're great at public speaking.

They're very polished and corporatized. But when it comes to the nitty-gritty of ensuring that the league isn't good standing as a product with the public, I just don't think these guys really care and see it as a long-term project that they themselves are a part of. And so, Joelle not playing in something that's supposed to be a big game doesn't surprise me because it's just not the attitude that these guys carry into it. And so, yeah, people are mad that Joel's not playing in a big game. And even though, you know, they just played the other day, which I get it, this is just what it is, man. I don't know how else to put it.

Like, these guys just don't see the extra parts as the job of being something that they're responsible for. And in that way, they're just on a different page from, I think, the league itself. the league is telling us certain games matter more than others. In season tournament games, they matter. National TV games, they matter. They have their own set of rules as to whether you're allowed to skip them or not.

These, you know, not just nationally televised games, but ABC matinee games, those matter. This is a league partner. This is something we're trying to promote. This is an all-day spectacular. And yet, I think the players, for whatever reason was, they have decided, like,

I'm going to manage my own career. I'm going to manage my own season. I'm going to manage my own body. And who can fault them for that? But there's just like a clear conflict of interest with that stuff. And maybe honestly the problem was that players weren't thinking this way from the beginning. Like the league was allowed to profit and grow based on the prospect of these guys playing every night. I don't know that it's necessarily right or fair to assume that they're going to if this is what the rigors of the schedule are.

If guys decide they don't want to make it through 82 or they can't make it through 82. And we talk about Joel all the time as a guy who was injured in the playoffs, who is hurt at the ends of seasons. I don't know that we can do that and also say, hey, you need to show up for every date on the calendar. The problem is what's important to Joel is very different than what's important to the league. And I don't know how to reconcile those things. Yeah, I definitely think the load management issue is an actual issue and you're starting to see the blowback of it and seeing the NBA try to maneuver around in order to address it. my thing is like the issue is the schedule and what the NBA has done by instituting these new rules, especially the one where you're completely out of awards consideration after you miss,

what is it, 15 games, passes the buck onto the players as opposed to the league itself. And so Joelle seemed like he was hurt. This isn't a planned rest day. He gave it a go. And then all of a sudden they pulled him. I want to believe that this wasn't simply duckling or resting or any of this other bullshit. This was a legitimate injury here. And the fact that we are now put in a position of questioning that, I think is very bad for the leap because you have situations like Tyrese Halliburton giving it to go in Portland because it seemed like Pascal Seaccom was there, but also because, you know, he wants to also be in the all-MBA considerations. His contract just is worth more if he makes all-MBA this year because

he's on a max. All of a sudden, he hasn't played since then. Then we're getting into Dicey territory. I'm just like, just trying to make this all about the players isn't the problem. The problem is the schedule is too damn long. It's long, but these guys are adults and they can make their own choices. I don't know that this is Joellen Beach's choice to make by himself, by the way. Lowell management was not invented by players. It was invented by organizations, by strength and conditioning staff, by sports science staff. That's who invented this as an idea in a concept. Players didn't invent load management.

So this is a decision that he's making in conjunction with the team. I'm just saying that the way, the attitudes that people have towards the regular season, I think it's signal to everybody that these games don't matter. And I think folks have gotten the message loud and clear because it's been broadcast to them over and over

that the NBA regular season does not matter. That's how everybody treats it. And, you know, I kind of wonder to myself sometimes I say, I wonder if Carl Towns, just as an example, understands that it's impossible to make $55 million a year being the Carl Towns of any other sport, right? And what that means, how we got to that point, right? I wonder if the players understand that.

Like, and I hate to use that cliche, but you are standing on the shoulders of giants. Like the people that came before you took the shit very seriously. And I'm talking about all of their responsibilities. And so I wonder if these guys get that at all. You know, and, you know, Joel might probably definitely legitimately wasn't feeling like himself yesterday and so he didn't play. But to me, I think it's just part of an overall issue that we have with the guys

and where we are with the regular season. This is kind of where I bump up against that idea, though, it was, of like, what do we or what do players owe the structures that support them? I think it's clear that they all benefit from the business of the NBA. And if the NBA is a product is not as healthy, they're not going to be making as much money. They're not going to be as famous. They're not going to be able to put on a show at the way they are right now. But I think there's also maybe there's a happy medium there where they aren't doing as much for the health of the league. they are making some personal decisions

or prioritizing their body or prioritizing their health, whether you consider that load management or not. And also the league can be in a relatively healthy place. I think we just have a hard time discussing that in a way where league health and league success has to be a line on a graph going up and up and up and up. But maybe the answer is the NBA is just never going to be as big of a...

So long as this is the schedule format, the NBA will never be as big a sport as the NFL. The NBA will probably not be as big a sport internationally, obviously, as things like soccer. And that's okay. Again, I think that's an okay place to be in a place where clearly lots of people can make lots of money doing it and have perfectly happy livelihoods.

Yeah, I think that is a key point because I do feel like there's this comparison that's been made and it's a really modern thing. And I think it's a result of the boom, boomlet, whatever you want to call it, post-Lebron going to Miami, where it seemed like the NBA was taking back territory, at least in the zeitgeist of sports fans. and all of a sudden the comparison, which when we were younger, like post-Jordan, like, that was never a thing really.

Like, the NBA was always kind of on a different tier. NFL has always been just this Goliath. And all of a sudden, we're starting to compare the two. And I'll be honest, I tried to get into football this year. I tried to get back into the Giants. It seemed like they were coming back. And all of a sudden, how'd that go for you? Awful.

Both because the Giants turned out were not good. But because by week eight or whatever, 60% of the quarterbacks in the league were basically out. And the NFL at this point seems like it's in a place with the same as the NBA, where the stars matter, the individual stars matter to the success of your team more than anything else. And obviously the quarterbacks are the stars of that league. And so they're dealing with the same issue, but you don't hear about it as much. And I think we talk about various aspects. We can get into the like the nitty gritty and the nuance of certain different decisions.

But it is the schedule, and I keep coming back to the idea that everything that people want to pass off as the big issue in the NBA misses the fact that there are too many games and that those games as a result just aren't as important as the other ones. And it leads to more injuries and guys missing more games and not taking it as seriously. And so, like, I don't know if we're going to keep doing 82, I think we're going to keep getting into the cycle wise. Yeah, I agree. And I would say, you know, I don't think the goal should be to become the behemate that the end. NFL is, like, it's just a cultish devotion to the sport. It is what it is. There's no catching the NFL.

We need to, like, that should not be the comparison. But, like, can we be as big as we were in 2016? Can we generate as much interest as we did in the Steph phenomenon and, like, stuff like that? Can we just make that a goal? Yeah. Right? That's all I'm saying, man. It's just the way that I think the problem.

I think the product has been managed. Like I said, it's been allowed to be cheapened. Everybody thought pops ridiculousness with media people and load management on purpose for national TV games. It was cute. It was quirky. Turns out that shit is terrible for business. A bunch of people followed it.

Because, you know, when it's just the Spurs doing it, whatever. It's a team that nobody gives a shit about anyway. Whatever. You can do that anonymously. But when everybody's doing it, it becomes a bigger problem, right? And at the time, people were saying that. Like, it's okay. All right, cool, the Spurs do it.

But like, now when we got 32 teams that take that same approach to the regular season, you know, it is what it is. And again, I don't want to put this on Joe, hell. Like, he didn't invent this. Again, he was probably hurt, for real. But, yeah, I think it's an issue going forward. And I think it's something that needs to be addressed. And, you know, because I'm American, I'm taught to think of these are our overseers in the freaking NBA ownership, that these are the brightest minds in the history of life and business and this,

maybe come up with a way to make some money off of the league that reduces inventory. You guys are so smart, so fucking creative, such geniuses as business, figure it out. We're just calling out. the champions of industry, you know? Live up to your title. That's all we want. I got to stay on brand, Rob. I don't know what's doing it.

There you go. All right. Shall we transition to trading some players now? So we're the champions of industry in this scenario. Always, always. Well, since we're already

talking about Rivals Week, the very important date on the calendar and the NBA schedule nowadays, why don't we talk about one of Waz's first teams, which is the Los Angeles Lakers. And I have to believe Waz that you want to talk about the Lakers because of the Dilo Renaissance here, the D'Angeloissance.

I have a Lakers fan in my life who obviously, because they listen to the show, understands my lack of enthusiasm for what Dilo brings to the table. And I've been getting a lot more text recently, right? which, you know, it's like, and the text just literally will say, Delo, he's played better. He's always shown these level of flashes. I think the problem with Daniel- I think better might be underselling it, was.

He's been awesome. He's been really good. No, that's fair. He's been dropping 30, all kinds of shit. You're right. Does anybody think this is going to happen in the postseason? Does anybody think he's going to bring this level of play when the best defenses are locked into?

what the Lakers want to do, I have a hard time believing that. His track record in the post season, he had a good Memphis series. But basically, other than that, man, in the postseason, this guy, he's been a liability, you know. And so the contract, as we've said, was signed to be traded, okay? That's literally the reason that that contract exists on their books. And I think there's no way the Lakers can be at this point of the season and feel satisfied with where they are.

So that's why I'm interested to see if they make any tweak. You know, obviously there was a lot of Zach Levine noise. There was DeMarrozen noise. There was Caruso noise. There was a lot of noise. But I just can't believe that they think this is the team that they should carry into the rest of the season and into the postseason.

I do think what this stretch has shown, though, is their defense, and really the whole season has proven this out, their defense is not at a level right now where it's going to carry them. They need more juice. They need these kinds of contributors and performances, whether it's Delo being on the heater of all heaters

or bringing someone in via trade, but the reason the Lakers have seemed like they've had a pep in their step lately, the reason why they've been so much more competitive, the reason why you look up and they'll drop 73, 75 points and a half. That's just a different team than we're used to thinking

about the Lakers being and that they've been for the vast majority of this season. So if they can click up offensively in any kind of way, this is a fundamentally more interesting team. And it's a reason why

they're winning of late. It's a reason why they're more interesting of late. It's a reason why they're more watchable of late. How we get there, I think, is the question. And if you're trading

DeAngelo Russell, if you're trading, cobbling together some role players for a slight step up or a supplementary star. I think we can have all those conversations. But it's still a complicated premise in terms of how you bring in talent here that fits and fits the timeline and that other teams are willing to give up for what the Lakers have to offer. So that probably brings us to DeJante Murray, which is the hot new rumor for the

Lakers. It was the Zach Levine inevitable trade, but now it seems like Murray is the one that they're setting their sights on or at least based on reports. And I think that makes probably more sense because he probably hits the in-between zone of what you're talking about there, where he is a good offensive player, and then maybe he could add more to your defense. Certainly, he wouldn't take away from what you're getting from DeAngelo Russell. The problem, I think, ultimately, like, circles us back to Russell, and that it sounds like him having another year on his deal-wise is going to be a sticking point, because for a team like the Hawks, they don't want DeAngel Russell's ass around for another year, especially when you have teams like the Knicks, other

teams in that derby who could probably give them an expiring contract plus all the other stuff that they need. In a weird way, the contracts that they re-sign to be tradable might ultimately not be tradable enough because then you still need to hang out with Rui Hachamura for a couple of years or whomever to make the salaries match. And so in a weird way, I think they made the right decisions over the off season, if only to put themselves in position to bring on somebody else right now, but they might have overdone it to where, like, they can't, like, they're, going to have to account for that negative value, those contracts. I don't, as much as I don't like DeAngelo Russell, I don't think his contract is of negative

value. Like, I don't think $18, $19 million a year for a guy who can start. And if you put him on the bench, he's overqualified. as a reserve, backup, point guard, whatever, off guard, whatever you want to call them, I don't think these are like horrible contracts. I think the problem for me with the Dejante Murray deal is that in theory,

what he theoretically brings to the table is exactly what the Lakers need in terms of, you know, elite level, on ball pressure, defensive instincts, and somebody who can do something in a pick and roll, you know, can create, can do all. of those things, it's made an All-Star team, that kind of thing. However, he ain't that guy anymore.

He does not guard people anymore. It's that this is a disease that afflicts a lot of NBA players who start off with these defensive reputations, then find themselves becoming 20-something point per game scores, and they decide, listen, I'm a bucket getter now. And bucket getters, defense is, that's what somebody else to do. Go find somebody else to do that stuff. And I think DeJante Murray has become that person.

There was a point very early on in his career where he was a fucking menace on the ball. Like literally probably the best in the league at that. He's not doing that anymore. And I wonder, you know, I'll always believe in LeBron's ability to get the most out of guys and convince people that they should take a more team-friendly role within, you know, the course of what the Lakers are trying to do. But I wonder, man, I really do. Yeah, it's starting to feel like with the NBA sometimes

that defense is what you do on your first contract and on your third contract, but not always on your second contract. And Dejante is certainly in that category. Well, he's on both right now because he's on an extension of his second contract. I guess that's true. This is where it gets fuzzy, you know?

Yeah, yeah. I still don't understand what it is the Hawks are getting from the Lakers in a hypothetical DeJante Murray deal that makes it worthwhile for the Hawks. Well, I'm glad you said that. because I've been thinking a lot about that. Dan Wojke had a really good article in LA Times where he almost ranked the Lakers assets. And I thought that was really good beat writing because I think it really crystallized for me how valuable this 29 unprotected first from the Lakers can be. Because I think we get into this mix where we just say first round picks. But clearly all first round picks aren't created equal. Like a lot of the picks that the New York Knicks have from other teams are so heavily protected. Like you might get something later in the 20s like four years from now. Is that is value? as, for instance, this Lakers pick. So just to clarify, in

2029, LeBron James will be 44 years old. Okay? Probably still playing. Yeah, in the middle of his prime, as far as we're concerned. Exactly. But Anthony Davis will be 36 years old when that draft happened in 2029. And at that point, I assume

AD will have to have affixed his arm to replace one of his legs and just dribble the basketball with one arm. He'll only go left from here on out. And so, but I do think, like, there's no way that the Lakers are in position at that point to be competing unless they've, like, hit a home run in free agency, which before LeBron got there was a pretty dicey proposition.

And so I actually think the 2029 first, if it's unprotected, if you get it like another swap, I actually think that's pretty good value. If you want to turn the page on Murray, we could talk about if you want to turn the page on this era of the Hawks. But, like, I think that's good value. I don't disagree that that's a valuable pick and a valuable bet to make as another team. But what does that do for an Atlanta organization

that's trying to win yesterday? And that's trying to figure it out with this group. No, but they're giving up, Rob. That's the idea. They're giving up. Yeah, I'm assuming that this is, we're starting from scratch here, which like, I agree with you. It is a little weird, but they already have kind of sunk cost

that they can't ignore here because they made such a bad deal for Murray to begin with. And so, like, it is tough to really find footing of how you move forward with this team because it doesn't work and you are due all these picks to the Spurs. I believe it's in 2027, 2029 that you hope you don't give them

the next superstar in the league. So this is a proposition in which you're bailing on Trey Young too? No. I'm just going off of the assumption based on how the reporting is suggesting that they want to keep Young and Johnson and figure everything else around the two. They want Young and Johnson and a pick that's five years

from now? I just don't I genuinely just don't see it. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but I don't get it. I don't disagree with you. It does seem to be at odds with how they want to do things. But like this is what is out there at this point. And it seems like they want to rebuild.

But here's the thing, though, as much as I get what you're saying, look at what they're doing right now. Does that make sense? Oh, it's not good. What's happening in Atlanta isn't good. I just think if Atlanta moves in a direction, it's going to be a direction of desperation trying to get guys who can play now,

not distant picks that may or may not be relevant to this core. It's no different than what the Nets are doing, though, where they give up their picks and they are now supplementing their future or blood-boying their future from the Sons. You know, you're just, you're getting someone else's future as opposed to your own, which is just where we are in the NBA, where we're so far ahead with the picks, that you have to import somebody else's future.

But the difference in those scenarios is that one of them has a player as good as Trey Young in it. a player who is good enough to demand some sense of urgency based on his quality of play alone. And Trey Young has his own list of problems, has his own issues. But you don't abandon a team. But DeJante Murray was that break glass in case of emergency. For sure.

It was like, all right, let's go out and get a guy to be next to Trey and take this seriously. And it's been a complete disaster. It's not a good thing. Rob, you would just rather get players for players if you wanted to move Murray. or not trade Murray at all. I don't think what I want is really relevant.

I think what the Hawks, what they have shown us is what they want is to be competitive and to be competitive as immediately as possible. I don't think that's what the standing show. But they haven't done it. They haven't done it. At some point they got to throw in the towel.

Like, you guys are bad at this trying to be good thing. Yeah. I just think the trying to be bad thing is a difficult proposition when you have a Star Guard who's in very productive years of his career. and also wants to win and wants to compete. Like the idea of just kind of punting on a team around Trey Young

and expecting what's already kind of a dicey interpersonal situation to just be great seems naive to me, if that's the way things ultimately go. I told you, I don't think the Trey Young thing in Atlanta's ever going to happen. Maybe not. I don't disagree with you, but at this point it really comes down to internal motivations and like how they see the best way forward for the team.

And we should mention that Landry Field is relatively new to the main job so maybe he wants his own people in there, as opposed to guys that he didn't go out and pick, and maybe he has the license to do something as bold as that and start fresh around there. But it's one of those teams that's stuck in the middle. So if you are committed to trade, and I think you have to be committed to trade

because I don't know who is trading for him unless you want to dump him DeJante Murray style, it's difficult. Yeah. I just don't want us to get caught in this trap, and this happens all the time, of a team like the Lakers, or a team like the Knicks,

or a big market team with a lot of interest and a lot of fans want something. And then we just assume the other team is going to give it to them. And I say this understanding the complication in that sometimes historically that has literally happened. Like Pow Gasol got handed to the Lakers in a way that was kind of inexplicable in the moment.

So crazy things do happen, but... I don't think that's what's happening. I think just like Zach Levine being on the market, I think it's natural for a team like the Hawks who is worse than the Bulls for Murray to be on the market. And I don't think you would hear this much buzz if Murray wasn't being put forward by the Hawks, or

at least in discussions by the Hawks. Murray should be on the market. The Lakers should be in the market for upgrades. I just don't see necessarily how the Twain shall meet. Oh, okay. Well, then that gets us back to the 2029 pick being valuable. Yes. Okay. So you just hate everything.

Nothing makes sense to you. I think if anything, I'm saying, I love everything too much. I love Trey Young too much to want a 20-29 pick to be his primary teammate. You've enjoyed this Trey Younger too much. I'm just starting to think that Landry Fields might have spent a little bit too much time working for James Dolan. And that's all I'll say for that. I mean, is it any time working for James Dolan too much time working for James Dolan?

So there's certain stink you can't get off yourself. Well, why don't we turn the page since we talked about, I guess, the Hawks instead of a wicker? Rob, do you want to go with one of your teams now? Yeah, let's talk about the Milwaukee Bucks, a team who I know we've been talking about on and off throughout the season in terms of what they will need via trade, what they could get via trade. I kind of want to circle in now as to what can this team actually get with their very limited trade resources. What is realistic for the Bucks at this point? Because there's been some reporting, you know, like Chris Haynes reported for one, that the Bucks had registered their interest in DeJante Murray. And I'm sure they did.

I'm sure they made that call. I'm sure that conversation was had. And there's no way in hell the bucks are getting to Jontay Murray. There's just not the math doesn't work. The assets don't work. There's no explanation. It would be even worse than a 2029 Lakers first round pick when you're settling in for like Pat Connettin and Bobby Portis.

Because when you think about what the bugs have to offer to structure a trade, it's either going to be a Brooke Lopez or Chris Middleton type. And we can have that conversation as to whether they should be willing to trade. those guys are not or what's realistic for them. Or it's going to be someone like Conantin or Bobby Portis as kind of the primary salary in a deal. And maybe there's some young talent attached. There's still some picks that the bucks are able to move.

But it's getting real hard to fashion a trade that's going to make Milwaukee meaningfully better this season with what they have to offer. The Hawks are not making it, I mean the Hawks, excuse me, the bucks are not going to make an incredible trade. The cupboard is extremely bare. they might, you know, be able to try to cash a lottery ticket in the buyout market. You know, I've heard rumblings that somebody like Bruce Brown, people saying he might be a buyout

candidate because his, you know, his deal is not guaranteed next year. You know, stranger things have happened, Rob. But, like, again, that's what they got to pray for. They don't have the pieces to make something happen. They're just going to stand pat and this is what it's going to be. And, you know, Doc Rivers said he wouldn't wish this on anybody. That wasn't the buck situation so much as taking over a coaching job midseason. But I will admit, not the best thing you want to hear from your head coach in his first day on the job.

So here is what the bucks have to offer other teams. They have Portland's 2024 second round pick, which will probably be at the top of the second round next year. Not bad in terms of second rounders. You know, it's basically an extended first round pick. It's the Lakers 2029 pick of second rounders. Yes. You're devaluing the 2029 pick as if it's nothing.

I also don't think you guys sold my Anthony Davis arm for a leg joke as much as it should have been. I thought that was very funny. I'm just going to put that. I missed it. I think it won't right over our heads, unfortunately. I missed it. I missed it.

Okay. So you weren't listening. Even better. And they have, I think, their own 2027 second round pick. And I think that's it. And then it's salary. And so I think the choice really is, and I think this is where the discussion gets really interesting.

Do you change who you are with Doc in there for days, maybe a week or two? or do you stand pat and just make it whatever you can work? Do you try to go and get a Royce O'Neill, do you try to bring back a PJ Tucker, just any sort of defensive player in there, or are we going the route of Chris Middleton or Brooke Lopez? We say that there's something foundationally needs to change here. I would assume it's the former, not the latter,

considering how quickly they'll have to operate with Doc. He's supposed to debut on Monday, and it will only have, like, what, 10 days before the deadline? but I think you can make the case for the other. You can certainly make the case for it and it's something they have to entertain. It's something they have to follow the thread on. I think the problem is, particularly with Brooke,

who are you trading Brooke Lopez too that's going to give you something that is helpful to the bucks this season that also doesn't sabotage the buck's defense further at a time where they already don't have other bigs they can rely on? So I think trading Brooke is not a non-starter in concept. It's just a non-starter in reality. trading Chris Middleton could make sense.

I think in the right context could make sense. And it would probably be a format. And this is something that my editor, Isaac Levy Rubinette, kind of put in my ear too of the idea of breaking up Chris Middleton's deal into a couple of role players, the Lakers potentially being one of these teams that could use someone like Middleton, get some defenders in there, get some other kinds of wings that can more prioritize the defense that the bucks need on the perimeter.

That could make sense. I still think he's pretty instrumental to what they do offensively as a mediator, as somebody who counterbalances Janice and Dame in some ways, fills out lineups with creativity that they need. Everything can't be coming from just those two guys.

And once you trade Middleton, the proposition of keeping this offense afloat, the offense that has carried you all season, it definitely gets dicier. I don't know how a team that's one of the 10 worst defenses in the NBA trades Brooke Lopez. That just seems insane to me.

18th was 18th rank defense up and up to the moon yeah they scored like a hundred points the other day but that's a whole other story okay that's that's nice this is a market improvement from 22nd for sure

I just don't know how you do that in their current state and for me the bucks man like can we see this group of fucking veterans play like people who have met each other before and not some pick

up rando basketball team, like, play better. Yeah, that's more important than any trade they could possibly make. They just have to play harder and better and more together. And that's, I mean, that's the reason why Doc's here to begin with. Yeah. And that's why I think like a Royce O'Neill or someone in that caliber where it's like, we'll take a flyer on maybe a wing defender as a rotation player who can maybe start if Malik Beasley, when Malik Beasley gets picked on in a playoff series.

Thank you. What I think is interesting about the dame trade and why that was such a surprise is that the bucks turned what was an obvious flaw that they're so over leveraged with picks into a strength that they said that we are so deep in the hole here with future draft picks. Let's just keep going down the hole. Let's get rid of the whole kit and caboodle. And I do think that is a strength at the deadline here where you're haggling over, oh, why don't you give this pick or protection? The bucks are like, fucking take it all. You want these two seconds? Cool.

Like, have them. Like, just give me this player because I need a, just like an eighth man at this point, just to make a credible run at the fine. And this front office has actually, I think, been pretty creative over the years with its trade packaging, with figuring out how,

getting a big pile of seconds and getting something of reasonable value, or at least like a decent bet. Jay Crowder has not worked out particularly well for the bucks, but I understand the thinking. Or Mirich or Sir Jabaka. Yeah.

But you can see how they got there. They haven't worked out. but you can see how they got there. And you can see how they swung for some new blood and swung to give their team a little dynamic that it didn't have before. But right now, the resources are more limited than they've ever been.

And thus, the realistic trade targets, if you're not giving up Middleton or Lopez, are more limited than they've ever been. So, yeah, Royce O'Neill is a good name to flag. Dennis Smith Jr. is another net that I think could fit well with them, a guy who's really good defensively. And I think you kind of play Dame more at the two

in those scenarios, at least in terms of, you know, you can parse offense and defensive positions, but I think those guys can play together. I also come to guys like Dailon Wright, for example, with the Wizards, who does not have a role with that team, but could be interesting for the bucks. Every time I watch I owe D'Sumu play, I think his energy could help a team like Milwaukee.

Like the urgency that he plays with could help a team like this. Ideally, if you had a little bit more to work with, I would love to see them make a run at someone like Dyson Daniels, who's not only a really great defender, but really young and a good ball mover. But how do you make the argument to New Orleans that you should be deserving of a player like that when all you have to offer is this kind of scant draft capital?

Portland's second round pick. That's the one. I can't get excited for a Royce O'Neill type, who even in the best of days, the three and D logic, the D of the logic was kind of, you know, I think they need to.

best they're getting now. But see, but that's not going to move the needle for them. They need a legitimate defender. Like when you say Dennis Smith, he's turned himself into a real-life, point guard, defender type of person. That, I think, would definitely help them

in a lot of ways that they're lacking right now. Royce O'Neill and like, you know, these other veteran sort of wing types who barely could move their feet anymore. That defense is not going to get better for having those dudes. Well, speaking of guys who maybe can't move their feet anymore, or at least their entire leg, how would you feel about the bucks rolling the dice

on a currently injured with a calf ailment, Gary Harris? A guy who, in theory, makes sense for them, not having the best year, admittedly by his standards, but he's been hurt for a lot of it. Soft tissue injuries make me nervous. Lingering calf injuries make me nervous, especially if we're talking about a team that won, wants to be contending for the title this season.

Maybe Gary Harris is non-starter. And again, on Orlando side, they don't just want to give away a good veteran like Gary Harris. So maybe there's just nothing to be done there at all. I don't think you can give up the salary matching, even if it's a Coniton or a Portis or someone who isn't really working for them to get a guy who hasn't been playing. Yeah.

Because the one thing they do need is just minutes. I love the Gary Harris idea. I thought he was having a really great kind of Renaissance season with the magic. He's the type of guy who could. start for the minute at any point or flash to the bench. It's exactly who we're talking about the bucks need, but he hasn't played for like a month at this point. I would be worried about

doing that. That's the problem. You can't target guys who are hurt or have a long history of injuries necessarily because you need them to be able to play. You can't get guys who are too old because what the bucks need really is like energy and young legs and yet getting the young guys who are actually good is going to take more

than Portland's second round pick. Well, since we're talking about teams that are over leveraged and are just scraping the bottom of the barrel. Let's talk about the Phoenix Suns. Sure. A team on my list who up until Friday had won seven in a row. And not just any seven, pretty good competition in that mix. And what do you know, Kevin Durant, Bradley Beal, Devin Booker works?

Who are the ad wizards that came up with this one? Rob, you were a doubter, so I do want to take your pulse on this. Okay. I was never a doubter in the idea that those three guys are good and we've been good together. I was a doubter in the idea that they would be on the floor together enough to be able to compete. Which, fairly, you've been pretty right about that.

Yeah, that has been true, yes. There's time yet, Justin. But then figuring out their flow and their balance together, it looks great. I really love watching them play. I do think they have dismissed some of the concern about the lack of a point guard there. I think there's going to be games where they go through,

rashes of turnovers, but the possessions where they actually get a shot up are just way too productive to fret about whatever point guardy thing should or shouldn't be happening. I agree with that. It's nice to see Bradley Beale kind of automatically scale in a way that I think really fits there. He isn't just jostling for the ball. He has taken a more Boschian supplementary role and all of a sudden he's back shooting again. That was kind of the concern troll that I thought was the dumbest thing when Beale was traded. Like especially first of all, they didn't trade much to get him. So to get a town like Bradley Beale, to me, that trade always made sense.

But then there was a lot of, oh, well, he's migrated into the mid-range. Can he be kind of like a spacing three-point shooter like he was before? And instantly, he has. To me, it was always like he was taking tough shots with the Wizards. He was taking shots. He was forcing a lot of the times because he wanted to do the James Hardin thing. He's back up to 38% from three. That's the highest percentage from three since 2016, 2017, which less healthy,

John Wall season. I don't think that's a coincidence. So it's good to see the sun's lock into place. Waz, do you think any differently about the Suns now? Are you still kind of in the same ballpark where they do have the offense as long as those guys are playing? Yeah, nothing's

changed. I was very concerned with the amount of games that Brad Bill was missing because, you know, it's a back, right? And those are notoriously tough to come back from and be able to stay on the floor. Again, you can't be surprised. that Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, Bradley Bill

have generated good offense. Like, we all understand that. It's why Kevin Durant's in the goat conversation. But I would say that I'm more bullish on them now than I was obviously prior to the street because it just seems so discombobulated and they could never get their time and right. But it's nice to see it finally coming together.

Well, so, Justin, what do you think that they need? because some of their minimum guys have paid off. Some of them have been, I wouldn't say whiffs, but have had better moments than necessarily extended stretches. Where are you seeing the deficits for them right now? Yep, I do think we need to give some respect to Grayson Allen,

who was lumped into the use of Nurkich garbage pile when those trades happened. I think he's been a revelation. On the other hand, I don't think they need 17 shooting guards. So if they can get someone with some size to go around here, On the one hand, like, I do feel like the team that they have now is an interesting foil to the teams with size, particularly in the West, the Denver's, the Minnesota's, where we're just going to jump shoot you to death and you guys have to come out and guard us.

Let's see your big ass move in space with the rest of us. I think it's a real match of styles that I'm interesting to see there. It would be nice if they had someone to guard guys who were bigger than a point guard. So I can see keeping Alan because he's played so well on the one hand. I could also see them using him as fodder in order to get a big wing defender because that is why you see them talked about with the Royce O'Neill types. Some of the other guys that we've mentioned, Miles Bridges is another name that gets connected with them. And I will say that like anyone who trades for Miles Bridges at this deadline is going to be cursed immediately. And so whatever carmic balance exists in the world will just completely just. exit your franchise in perpetuity.

Yeah, don't do it. I could see the type that they're going for. And so for me, it would make a lot of sense to do that. And unlike the books, they have several seconds. Now, the quality of those seconds, who knows, definitely not a Portland second. Let me tell you that. There's like protections on their seconds. I was like, when did we get this far?

Why are we at this point in life? But they have like the currency to get guys to fill out. some of the roster spots. But so you're falling into the trap, which is, Grayson Allen is less essential to the Sons when all their guys are out there.

But you miss anyone, especially if you're missing Booker or Beal, he's one of their most important players. It's true. So can you afford to trade a guy like that? You could probably scrounge salary together. Like Nizier Little, for instance, is a guy that I think makes some sense,

although he's on a four-year deal. You can swap some stuff around with other teams, for sure. You know, guys on their benches who aren't playing that, much or guys who just like don't fit into their lineups. One player who I just become obsessed with the idea

of getting to the Sons, and I don't think this will happen for obvious competitive reasons, how do we get Jared Vanderbilt on the Phoenix Sons? That kind of can guard kind of one through four on ball against really good threats. Obviously has problems fitting into the lineup sometimes

with the Lakers to the point that he hasn't been starting. Now he might be starting again after being plus 30 and a two point double over time game. He's the new OG Oni Nobi with the plus minus. He might be but he could be that for the Sons too right. He could be such a nice

versatile on-ball defender in a way that spells whoever you would want to put on an opponent star because he can guard such a wide range of players. Interesting idea but I don't know why is that seems the same the Sun's second round picks being

the bait and Grayson Allen it made like of course they would like to upgrade the rosters, particularly at the wing position, which, oh, just happens to be the most premium position in the league. And it costs you to get those kind of guys in your building. Yeah, man, they might want to kick the tire. They might want to just wait for the buyout market.

I think so. Because just the idea that they would be able to execute a trade for anybody. Yeah, they're above the apron, right? They're above the second apron to the king. Well, they actually have a certain kind of, a certain salary of player. but not the premium guys. Anyone below 12.4 million. Yeah.

So no Kyle Lowry for the Phoenix Suns. Probably for the better. We're going to have to have that conversation of which team should sign Kyle Lowry and then we're going to have to revisit the conversation of when was the last time he hit a shot or took a shot. Yeah. I mean, he's a future Laker.

Because I don't think they're going to get close to the second apron. They'll relive the trade that they almost made a few years ago. why don't we do, since we're on the big market stretch, why don't we turn now to our friend Biguwas, who has another team from his coastal elitist selections? It's the Knicks, man. The OG Ananovi trade has been a home run. There's absolutely no other way to put it.

They've won six in a row. OG is breaking plus minus records by the day, and right. Shattering plus minus records. again, like we thought he would be this ideal sort of Tibbs player. It's been even better than that. And again, they're 29 and 17. Should they be trying to get even better?

That's the question to me, right? Like, how confident are they in this bunch that they should be trying to get better? And how much better? Is it on the margins? Because Brunson missed a few games a week and a half ago or two weeks ago, and it got pretty nasty, pretty quick. The offense was just literally could do nothing at all. And so they still need some of that score and punch.

But, you know, I think the team functions in such a way that anybody, if they got a quality two, if they got a backup point guard, a quality wing, they could use an upgrade at all of these positions. And so, yeah, I think they should be trying to make a move. They should be working the phones and figuring it out. Of course, they want to keep the powder dry for that big fish, that big whale, whoever the hell that might be. But I think they should be trying to make this team better, you know, with eyes on this postseason because I think they're going to be a super tough out for any of the East Top teams.

Well, I do think their situation is pretty similar to what Miami was in before they swung the Terry Rozier trade. There is very much a, do we wait out the market and hope that of Mitchell Carl Anthony Towns down the road comes to bear? Or do we just go in now, Rob, get someone like a Dejante Murray, just get a Bruce Brown, a Malcolm Brogden. Let's just fill this backcourt spot, perhaps,

and just be the best team we could be right now. What side of things do you fall on? Yeah, what makes their situation materially different than the heat is this team is really good right now in the regular season, proving it on an every night basis. They're sixth and point differential right now. This isn't a team that you just sit back and say like, oh, we're good enough.

It's you're looking at that bench, as was said, and saying, how can we make this better? How can we make this more well-rounded? We've talked plenty about, you know, some scoring punch, your Jordan Clarkson types, or maybe that's a Tim Hardaway Jr. reunion. Maybe that's a name that I've been thinking about and Magic fans, this is going to seem like I'm trying to trade away all your players, but really it's because I see some value in them. And it's like, Markell Fultz could be awesome. in a role like this.

Coming off the bench for a team like the Knicks, spelling Jalen Brunson, playing with Jalen Brunson's son, being like a driving force that could really help them and that they need. And I don't think he's like a long-term solution for Orlando necessarily. He's like he's starting right now. He's filling in, but it's kind of clear that they're trying to move in a different direction. They're trying to pivot ultimately to a different kind of point guard.

I wonder if something like that could work. But I love these kind of like mid-level lower-end options for the Knicks, much more than a Dejante-Murie-type deal. think they need that. I just think they need their bench to be slightly better. And if it is, they're going to give some of these really good Eastern Conference teams a serious run for their money. Yeah, DeJante Murray can't be the play there. Because here's the thing, if DeJante Murray is as good as everybody wants us to think, he wouldn't be on the trade block. Like, this idea that he, that you should give up real stuff as if this guy's actually going to change your fortunes.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. I'm just saying for the aspirin. that the Knicks have, can this guy come in and actually make a material difference? I don't know. He hasn't made one for the Hawks in a manner that, you know, affects winning and losing. So I don't know. That's why I do think on the margins it does make more sense. And, you know, they get to keep their hopes alive for the next whoever this star player is that they want to bring in. But I do think they should be trying to upgrade this thing because they've shown and proven that they can kick ass.

on a given night, and they should roll the dice on somebody. Was, I also don't want to give up the clarity that has come with the OG and an OB deal. Like moving away from RJ Barrett, who's been really good for Toronto, but I think muddied up some of the picture for the Knicks sometimes has been clarifying and really helpful

in a way that I don't want to just, like, throw DeJante Murray into the mix now and muddle things up again. Like, the Knicks makes sense, and I want to build on that as much as anything. I would split the difference of the two. I think going for just like a bench player to be like my eighth or ninth man probably is a little too on the low end for me. But I don't necessarily disagree with you both because they want to keep the seat warm for whatever superstar does come available.

Because at the very least they should be open to that idea if a Mitchell wants to come, et cetera. But I do see a clear hole there where if you're going Dante DiVincenzo at the two into a playoff battle, I do think they could get better than that, which is why I do think like a Bruce Brown type is interesting to me where he is kind of, yeah, I can just see everybody. He would be so funny as a, he's just like the natural evolution

of the Dante Devencenzo Josh Hart thing that the Knicks do. Like another undersized kind of two guard to come in, muck stuff up, rebound better than his size, defend bigger than his size. He fits like a glove. He is absolutely a tips guy. And I do have to say,

the one thing that the Knicks have going for them is that their identity is just so crystal clear at this point. I think OG just solidified that the swap of him, RJ. And there was this quote that was circling around from like one of the New York papers I forgot, but that like they tried to get off of all of the softies and oh, oh, Obie Toppin was kind of the clear cut guy there. I don't know. That's rude. That's rude.

But they are some hardo like Pat Riley type of guys in that team now. And it really just does exude, and I think it is working for them. And I do think if you're going to go out and add to this, you do want a guy that fits that sort of mold. There is a real like Tibbs culture thing happening going on there. And I want to be additive to that. And maybe Murray, for instance, wouldn't be a good candidate for that specific type of player. Well, attention to all softies. The Knicks may not want you, but we do.

Group chat is a place for softies, I think. Hey, man, they're trying to call Quinn Grum. The crimes is softy now. I like Grimes. I love Grimes. Love him. He guards people. He shoots it.

It's just, I don't know, for whatever reason, it just hasn't. I thought he was going to take off as soon as, you know, R.J. And quickly left. Like, it seemed like clear minutes for him, but that just hasn't been, hasn't been the case. I don't know. I really think, again, because it's funny, right? Because the old Knicks, no question, would have thrown everything they had at DeJante Murray. He's a name.

He's allegedly an upgrade. Like the old New York Knicks would have went so hyper aggressive to turn this team into what they think is going to be, quote, unquote, the next level. But this regime, man, is so much more patient than we're used to seeing at MSG. And, yeah, I think they're going to do something more temperate, moderate than, you know, just go crazy and maybe slightly overpay for a guy. I feel like you just walked us up to the edge of a Dejante Murray is the 2024 Steve Francis take and then back back slowly away from it.

But you walked us right up to it, was. One thing we should talk about is that Julius Randall seems like might be out for about a month here. Yeah. It did dislocate his shoulder toward the end of yesterday's game against the heat, which is really tough to watch at times. And obviously,

if they are going to import a star, it probably means Randall is out. And so I did want to take a kind of pulse temp check wise on the Julius Randall experience. Do you get the sense from just like the New York vibes coursing through you that Randall is like alleviated himself to a certain degree that like you're not trading him for like a mid-tier option, but we would trade him for a superstar or where, where's the fan base at at this point? Yeah, I think people have kind of brought in on him. He had that season after the initial, it's his second season in New York where, you know, he overachieved in the first year and everybody was happy and everybody's looking. I'm like, oh, you're our guy, you're the leader of the team. They essentially salt through the entire season. And Nick fans

were not happy about it. Like, just his body language in the way that he was comporting himself, people just thought that was unbecoming of a guy who was supposed to be the leader of the goddamn New York Knicks. But he's turned that around, man, to the point where, you know, He's the one yelling at the crowd, getting people involved at games these days, right? He's sort of become a mainstay and a staple, but I think Nick fans are savvy enough to understand that if an actual, you know, star was on the table, Julius Randall got to go. But, you know, I'm proud of him for turning it around, man, and making himself into an indispensable part of this version. of the team. You know, make no mistake about it. Like, they go because him and Jalen Brunson are going. Of course, Brunson is taking the mantle as the main guy, but what Randall does

is extremely important for them. Like, you know, this goes without saying. The guy's average is 25 and 12. Like, it's, it's ridiculous, you know. And so I think people have, have grown to love from, you know, freaking Nick fans that if you stick around long enough, you're going to become a quote-unquote Nick legend. And so I think Randall has kind of made himself into a Nick legend. But if the right deal comes along, nobody's going to cry about it. But to your point about him making himself indispensable, I think that's what makes these next couple weeks so interesting for New York.

They can get by and they do get by in games when he goes to the bench. When the rotation goes to the second unit, they can gut out those minutes. But you turn that into a month, Justin, you turn that into six weeks. there's not like a natural replacement for Julius Randall. His game is so particular. It's so unique. He's so versatile and talented in a way that like O.G. Annobe is probably going to slide over to the four,

but that dramatically changes the shape of everything that the Knicks are doing. Yeah, so maybe they're more likely to get a bench ball handler like a Jordan Clarks and some of the guys you were mentioning. A Malcolm Brogdon, for instance, because they need the playmaking. I did think it was interesting when they made the Ananoi trade. They also got Presta Situahua to fill an obvious hole. at backup center because Mitchell Robinson wasn't there. And so that was a little more like a,

we're trying to fill holes for this season as opposed to like seven years down the road, sort of just janging the roster building that teams typically do. And I was like, oh, this is like we're in 1994 again. Well, since we are talking about superstars that the Knicks could target, I do want to talk about the Cleveland Cavaliers, who I cannot think of another team in recent history

that's been so paralyzed by their own success. they are nine and one over their past 10 despite not having Evan Mobley despite not having Darius Garland and there's something like Rob's guy Evan Mobley Dissing by subtractions

Wow There is something so Wow beautiful in its simplicity that everything we've said about the calves that when Mowbley and Garland aren't in there just like clicks into play just clicks into place

where it's like they just have shooting now and they've been awesome on defense and what do you know? It works. And so you might say like, man, maybe the calves need to rethink this whole deal. Like, should we trade Evan Mobley? Should we trade Darius Garland? But then you remember...

Trade his ass, ship him out. I think it'd be interesting, but then you remember Donovan Mitchell might not even be long for this team past this half season. And so like, how do you? do you do anything without knowing Mitchell's own long-term future? And so, like, in a weird way that the team we should be talking about the most,

but Rob, I don't think they could do anything. I think they're paralyzed at this point. Well, I'm paralyzed. My head is spinning trying to figure out what the cabs are or should be because, yeah, the new kind of core group that they've been putting together and rolling out there during these injuries, I wouldn't have expected it to be this good defensively. I wouldn't have expected it to be this clean in terms of the playmaking.

Put some respect on Dean Wade's name, God. I would gladly. You know, Max Drew's Dean Wade, those guys have shown up. Jared Allen has been sensational during this stretch in particular in a way that it makes the idea of trading Jared Allen if you're trying to make room for Evan Mobley also seem crazy.

All avenues lead to something crazy at this point. Like how do you break up a team that is this good in this form by overcomplicating it with the stars that you're ultimately going to bring back, and yet that's obviously what you should do to put the most talented groups on the floor. I don't know what to do with them.

It has been such a clarifying experience, getting them back to basics, getting them into a very simplified streamlined form. But the reality of their core four right now is that that's not a streamlined operation. That's something that has to be finagled. It's something that has to be maneuvered. It's something that's complicated.

And if they want to continue buying into that process, as they probably should, there's just going to be a lot of ups and downs that come with it. It's never going to be this easy, and yet how do you give up something that's this easy? I don't think there's ever been a GM in the history of the league with big enough balls to move in Evan Mobley to be like, we're off the youth movement and all in on this idea.

We got this vet. He's an all-star. It's just not done. You just don't do that. However, you know, my thing is, this idea that you can be unconventional and that there will be some level of seamlessness to it, it just doesn't exist. And Evan Mobley needs to find a way that when he's inserted, they can play closer to

this version of themselves. Because when he's been around, they can't. You know, they have to fit around his limitations. And I get it. Everybody thought he was the next Kevin Garnett. And it was going to be this great thing. years of Cavalier's competence

by Evan Mobley and his great defense and blah blah blah never mind that he can't make a jump hook to save his life I just think these are longer and harder questions

and I think we thought coming into the season where it's like this guy is not playing and my team becomes clarified because we play a more conventional modern NBA offense

because of that you know these are tough questions man and you know you wonder when he comes of course, obviously he's an all defense, defensive player of the year level guy. But, you know, how do you make the offense feel less clunky when he's back? I'm wondering. And I wonder, yeah, what do they feel like they need to do with the deadline, if anything?

We're wondering a lot, which is kind of the problem with what has happened here, is I have a tremendous amount of respect for the way the cats have turned around their season. They were languishing in a way that was... I thought they were dead. I thought they were dead in the wall. I was worried that we were going to start seeing some trades made out of necessity versus made out of strategy, out of want to move in a particular direction. They saved themselves from all that. They've played tremendously well. They've been one of the best defenses in the NBA this season. And the way that guys have stepped into that rotation in filled minutes is genuinely very admirable.

But we have no answers. All this stretch has done is create more questions for a team that already had a lot of questions. If Mowbly could shoot, I think it solves a lot of problems. And I think you can, give him the opportunity to figure that out because he does have touch. It hasn't materialized at all. He definitely does not have force, so he needs touch. But I do think that would probably solve things. If we're assuming that Mitchell goes eventually, I could see a world where Garland masquerades is Mitchell and mobile just like at the very least spaces on there. He could use some of his passing brilliance for a big and whatnot and it could work. But as far as now, as far as right now, no. I can't figure out anything. Maybe you could trade Garland. Like, if you knew Mitchell

wanted to stay in a version of this team, like he's just completely bulled over by what we've done here. I want to be the guy here, which probably won't happen. Just trade Garland. Let's find pieces in order to just keep this thing rolling. But that's not how reality works. It's not how the Star Game really works. I think the thing about Mobley, too, is it's not just a force and touch and shooting question. Shooting is definitely the easiest way to get a big on the floor with another true big. Minnesota is a great example. Carl Towns

being able to shoot at the level he does is what makes that thing viable on offense. Most of the other big, big pairings in the league, they run on exceptional offensive feel. And that's what Mowgli doesn't have. He has great feel on defense, great feel and coverage. His ability to

switch, his ability to show up for other guys, his ability to rotate 99th percentile in terms of his defensive aware in the league. Offensively, he doesn't have that. He doesn't know how to fill spaces. He doesn't know when he should be in the dunker versus the free throw line versus, you know, cutting opposite the action. That's where the lack of progress when he has been healthy has been so disappointing. It's like maybe he's never going to be a great three-point shooter. Maybe he's never going to be a dominant low-post guy. But can he feel out his place in a complex evolving offense? And I don't think

we've seen a lot of evidence to suggest that he's going to be able to do that in a way that lets him play with another big like Allen. All right, why don't we get to our last team here? Rob, you still have one more on your list? Yeah. Again, going straight to the other. We had a lot of coastal action today. But at least we're going smaller market on the coast

or at least medium-sized market on the coast. I want to talk about the Sacramento Kings. In part, they've had a very strange season. And I want to unpack that a little bit because they've never seemed fully comfortable, or at least as comfortable and settled as they were last year. Even over the last few weeks, You know, Darren Fox plays pretty well,

but also has some, like, really off games. And there's nothing disastrous happening. There's just games where the rhythm of that team doesn't feel quite right. And so I'm trying to figure out why that is. I'm trying to diagnose why that is. And with where the rotation is right now, I would say they have a pretty solidified top six.

You have Fox and Sabonis. You have Murray and Barnes. You have Herder, who is back starting again, seems to be coming out of his funk. Very grateful for that. And then you have Malik Monk, who's just one of the most productive and one of the most delightful bench players in the league.

Love Malik Bunk. Everything else is completely freeform in a way that makes this yet another one of these Nixie teams where they have the high-end options, or at least relatively high-end options. You know, the Pascal Seaccombe Derby, they got into for a hot minute and that kind of idea of more dramatically shaking up that top six.

Or there's like, how do you shore up the seventh and eighth guys in the rotation to make this just make the whole thing more playoff worthy? And that feels more likely for a whole bunch of reasons And what's good about Sacramento's bench is that you can also see a lot of plausible upgrades over the guys that they're rolling in with the second unit. So they have a lot to work with theoretically, but maybe they're not the most exciting options on the board. And they have stuff to actually trade.

Real tradable assets. What a world. They have picks. They have some contracts that they can move around. Yeah, I think the Davy-Han-Mitchie situation has been. disappointing if we're being honest, especially when you think about where they picked him up in the draft. Yeah, I think when you got somebody like Fox, man,

your job should absolutely be make these upgrades wherever you need them because he is just a bona fide star. He changes the complexion of every game that he's in. He's awesome. And I think they should be trying to be hyper-aggressive in the deadline. I love that they was in the Seacom Sweepstakes. Of course, he, you know, he politely declined, but I love that they were in on him. They should be trying to swing that type of, that level of deal.

Because I think, you know, look, man, this is the crazy thing about the NBA these days. Like, as good as the clippers are, as good as, you know, Phoenix may be, I don't think they're that much better than the Kings. I don't think the Kings should look at themselves as, oh, these guys are way out of our class. So they should be trying to get better soon and be. and super aggressive about it. One thing about the Pascal Seacom's situation where I think there is a little bit of a silver lining. And one reason why I would be hesitant

to make a big swing unless you're really certain about the guy you're getting and that it's going to be a great fit is I look at Keegan Murray and I see a player who I don't want to encumber his opportunity. I think the way he's improved defensively this season, what he's shown he can do in flashes, you know, handling as like a second side guy for the offense,

doing a little bit of creation. He's not going to be a superstar, but that guy has a lot of headroom in his game, a lot of room to grow. And part of me does want to nurture that and leave room for that in a way that if you get Pascal Seaccom, Keegan Murray turns into Harrison Barnes.

And I mean that in like Warriors sit in the corner Harrison Barnes. And I don't, I want him to be more than that. 32, 39 against the Warriors the other night. Put some respect on Harry B's name. But it's not the way to bad to badmouth Harrison Barnes. That's for sure. Our guy has been delivering.

Just give it a few days and you'll be back in the clear here. But it seems like Rob Allroads lead to the player, I think you're going to mention the one with the vast scarf collection and the jackets nine times bigger than his body frame. You're speaking of Jeremy Grant. Of course. Yes. That's a great like threading the needle option, right? he's not Pascal Seacom level of either player or investment

or like required cost, but he could make them materially better. I think that's a straight down the middle, makes a ton of sense in terms of who the king should be targeting, would love the Jeremy Grant fit for Sacramento. I wonder though if the swing is even going to be that big or if we're going to end up more in like

the range of guys we've been talking about, the Royce O'Neils, the Dorian Finney Smiths, the J-Shon-Tates. The Royce O'Neill Derby is heating up, my friends. At least on this podcast. But why? Look, you look at Sacramento's bench, and you're just trying to find someone

who's like a little more well-rounded out than Chris Duarte or Kessler Edwards, who some of those guys, like, you know, sometimes they don't even get into the mix on some nights. You're trying to find a guard who can put an end to the Davion Mitchell, Keon Ellis carousel

that's been happening behind Deere and Fox this season. How about you split the difference? Go with a guy who hasn't been able to play lately, but seems to be on the verge of coming back in Brooklyn. I'm, of course, talking about Ben Simmons. Jesus Christ. This is not...

No, this is not the market I'm trying to get into. You want a guard? I'll give you both them one player, baby. It's not exactly what I had in mind. But I appreciate you trying to throw his name out there. Trying to get the word of mouth going around the water cooler for Ben Simmons. Build hype until the return on Monday,

until he then doesn't actually return. But the Kings are in a position where they can make lots of different kinds of calls, which I think is what makes them an exciting deadline team. You can get into more adventurous conversations around players of Pascal Seaccom's caliber. You can also just kick the tires on, Tyos Jones, and if that would be a good backup point guard for you. I would at least check in on D. Anthony Melton. I don't think that's a realistic guy, because I think the Sixers need him too much.

That's the kind of player who could really help them. Bruce Brown, why not? Let's make the call. Bogdan Bogdanovich, bring him home. or at least, you know, his first American home. Let's bring him home again. He had such a good run when he was in the first time. I think somebody like Dorian Finney Smith makes a lot more sense to me

because he actually guards people. And, you know, he can make an open shot for sure. I just think if you're going to get a guy, don't just get a place filler. I get it. Some of these rotation minutes are going to guys. They kind of need some of place. place fellers though.

Yeah, they do need some place fillings. But I would like to see the Kings be aggressive, man. Yeah, I mean, although it has been a mildly disappointing season in Sacramento, they kind of have lost their edge a little bit where they aren't just blistering offensively and they've kind of settled into the middle on both ends of the ball. They're kind of just right in the mix there. And I feel like the one trade can augment them to maybe lean in one. one direction or another. Maybe we're going to be a little bit better defensively and maybe

we're top 10 on defense and then maybe we're like 10th on offense or something like that. Or we go back to what worked for us in the first place. Let's just go balls to the walls. Let's start Malik Monk for instance and like let's just be the offensive supercharge. It would be like one of the 10 teams that's breaking offensive record this year as opposed to the one just outside of that line. The in the mix question with them is so interesting too because by wins and losses in the standings, they're absolutely in the mix. One of these teams has just been hovering in that kind of like four to six range in the West for a lot of the season, putting themselves in a great position to compete for seating,

for playoff equity, like all those things are really important. By point differential, they've been in a different class from the good Western Conference teams for all, basically the whole season. And some of that started when Fox was out, but also it's just been kind of perpetuating as they've as they've kind of failed to lock into the best things that they do. and your mileage may vary as far as like how much that matters to you or how much of a concern that is to you. But it's notable when you look at

every team that's around them in the standings being dramatically better by point differential. And the Kings is like the outlier of that group. Historically, that doesn't bode well for those teams. Those are the kinds of teams that get upset in first round series or lose matchups that they shouldn't. And the Kings, by God, have they lost games that they should at this year? Like they just punt.

if the other team has guys out, the Sacramento Kings will probably lose to you at some point this season. So there's some stuff like that where I just want them to get their heads screwed on a little more tightly because this is a good, talented team, a successful and competent team and I want to ride those vibes into something meaningful

in the playoffs. Having said that, the Clippers just blew out the Celtics yesterday. I do think there is going to be that division regardless. I do think regardless of what they're going to do at the deadline, they're probably going to find themselves in a similar situation, But I agree with you. I do think that they have room to grow here and be the best version of their team to see what they can do in the playoffs.

Why don't we wrap it there? We'll be back on Wednesday, as per usual. Thank you to Jack Sanders on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll see you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Fanduel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler, or visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa.

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