The Ringer NBA Show - The Most Interesting Teams, Trade Targets, and Free Agents of the 2023 Offseason | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos discuss some of the most compelling teams, trade targets, and free agents this offseason. They discuss what the Lakers and Spurs could do this offseason (5:03), the best places for Karl-Anthony Towns if he were to get traded, where some intriguing free agents like Brook Lopez and Fred VanVleet could end up (28:12), and much more. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to a golf podcast unlike any other. This is Fairway Rowland on the Ringer podcast network. I am your starter. Joe House every week on Fairway Rowland. It is myself and our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, talking all things, professional golf, amateur golf, amateur betting, professional betting, amateur drinking, professional drinking, my birdie buddies. If you want to hit them straight out there, please check out Fairway Rowland every week.

Available on Spotify. And welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier joining me. Two guys worth their weight in crumble cookies. It is Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. I have to be honest, guys, I don't actually know what a crumble cookie is. Rob, are you a fan? I don't know that I'm a fan. And it's in like the very bougie, a little too decade,

a little too iced cookie genre for me. And plus, look, I'm just categorically opposed and measuring the weight of a human being and crumble cookies. Sue me. Yeah. Well, they just recently opened up one by my crib here in the valley. I stop in there from time to time because it's right next to the freaking target. And what I like most about it, one,

whenever they have a peanut butter flavor, I'm all in. And two, they sell the milk right in the damn crumble cookies in personal sizes. So I don't got to go out and buy a half gallon of milk that's going to eventually spoil. I get the personal size milk with the cookie. That's dinner right there. Boom, done. So Tobias Harris, yeah, you might not be worth crumble cookies, my boy. Are they like cookies that are like just crumbly or is that just in the name?

No, it's just a name. It's just a cutesy name. They are there, though, like on the cakeier side of cookie. No. Not for you. So if we're equating them to NBA players, are they Tobias Harris? Are we talking about a higher echelon of player cookie comp? I mean, they're not cheap.

I would say they're more DeAndre Aitin in the sense that like gets the job done, but it's like a little bit too expensive for the job that it's actually getting done. leaves you a little cold. Yeah. Crumble cookie, sponsor to our show here, please. Ringing endorsements. All right, on today's episode, we are going to give you one of the 90 MBA free agency offseason, Jason podcast. You probably listen to this week, but you're listening to all of them.

So we're going to do another one, and we're going to do it slightly better, maybe, potentially. We are going to bring to you the second annual edition of our potluck style free agency preview, typically around Thanksgiving. We do the one team, one take, something else. I don't even remember my own bits. We are going to do one team each, one trade target, one free agent. I believe we did restricted free agency last year. I was looking up our old outline.

Unfortunately, restricted free agents never move. And so we're throwing teams into the mix. I will say, as I was looking at the outline for last year's podcast, the first edition of this now celebration. heading into the off season. Do you know what trade happened that day? Early free agency, no clue. Who was moving?

Is that Rudy Gober? I could tell that you guys did not look at the doc that I meticulously plotted out for you because it's literally in there as a note. It is the KCP trade, which then eventually led to your Denver Nuggets winning the NBA title. Yes.

I remember loving that trade at the time, Justin. It's a good trade, I have to say. It's only aged well. And look, some of us here are trying to respect the sanctity of your potluck picks. I reserve the right and the privilege to be surprised. Thank you. Some of us had the vision to realize that Will Barton was not too much to give up, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, Will Barton just like completely fell off the map to the point where I think he ended up last season as a waiver pickup for the Raptors. A Toronto Raptor. That's tough. Injuries, man. Probably. Yeah. You might get moved this summer. All right.

So we're going to start with the team portion. Why don't we start with Waz here? Because I am anticipating Rob going a little bit more deep cut, shall we say. Are you? Me? Moi? Yeah. Yeah.

I think I've come to know your preferences here. So Wazz, why don't you bring to the table if it was your pick as for the team portion? The team that I think people should be watching pretty closely in free agency is a team that's no stranger to the group chat. The Los Angeles Lakers, honestly. And it's mainly for three guys whose contract negotiations I find to be pretty fascinating. Of course, you got Rui Aachemora, who is a restricted free agent coming off of his rookie deal. You wonder, he had an incredible postseason, the best basketball of his life by far in the biggest moments of his life,

which that very rarely lines up and it lined up perfectly for him. But because he's a restrictive free agent and teams probably have a sense that the Lakers are going to do what it takes to keep him in-house. I wonder if that depresses his market. And so I'm fascinated to see where his number ends up. Same with Austin Reeves, who his assent started at towards the end of the season while LeBron was sitting, continued in the playoffs. Maybe he wasn't his best self against the Warriors. but, man, if he didn't make Clay Thompson want to kick his ass by the end of that series against the Golden State Warriors.

And so for similar reasons, but because he's got the arenas rule that applies to his deal, I think his contract is going to be kind of artificially depressed for those same reasons. And last but not least, my personal favorite whipping boy, DeAngelo Russell, I'm just fascinated to see what they do with this. guy, because I don't think he should be paid more than Austin Reeves, quite frankly. He's just, to me, he's not a better player. But in the regular season, he does do things that are valuable as far as his scoring, his secondary playmaking, the fact that he can make two-point shots at a pretty decent,

decent clip. So I'm fascinated to see the game that the Lakers are going to play with Delo. And then, you know, last but not least, I don't want to get the aggregators going, you know, settle down now, but it feels like there's just something bubbling underneath the surface between Braun and the Lakers organization. Just the way Palinka

is puffing his chest out about we're not abandoning our young guys and blah blah blah blah. We know Braun's desire to always be you know improving the roster at any cost no matter what the future might hold. I'm really excited to see

what the Lakers do with this offseason. I don't think you have to make the note to the aggregators when LeBron is out here threatening to take his ball and go home. Like I think that's... That was so long ago. That was so many Michael Malone disses ago that I forgot about the quasi-retirement already. Well, Justin, where do you want to start? As Mr. Laker, you want to start with Austin Reeves, who's probably the best of these players?

Like, where should we go from here? Well, I do think Wads kind of hit at the interesting tension point, whereas it does feel like LeBron is motioning that he wants some higher level help in the vein of one Russell Westbrook because that worked so well for them last time. But the Lakers are putting up a fight and saying we're going to pretty much usher in this next era because that's what's best for you. And more importantly, that's what's best for the organization. And so I think you find ourselves kind of in a similar situation you have with LeBron

at this stage of his career with a new franchise, which is the team wants one thing because they have a longer outlook and LeBron wants to emphasize the media. I think there's a way to strike a balance, though. I think there's a way, and I would have to be, look up the cat mechanics for this. I'm doing this on the fly,

but I'm pretty sure that they can still swing a sign-in trade for a high-level veteran, for instance, like a Fred Van Vleet, while keeping some of their young guys. So if they could end up with Hachamara, with Reeves, have a young foundation, but bring in a high level guy to raise their ceiling, but not to the level of a Kyrie Irving. I think that would be successful, but obviously that is going to be difficult because I think we're going to talk about, Fred and Ville's going to have a lot of suitors. Yeah, Fred's going to have a lot of suitors. And I think to make those sorts of mechanics

work, they would be contingent on, like, there being a market for DeAngelo Russell, for example, which I just don't think there is. I think he's ultimately probably going to end up back with the Lakers for that reason. Like it just kind of makes too much sense, even despite the fact that he was not exactly essential to the rotation by the end of their postseason run. But that is why the Lakers are interesting. They're always at these tension points in terms of needing a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more.

They are accustomed to a certain style of living and a certain style of star power and acquisition that honestly, given what they have right now, just might not be logistically all that feasible, unless you want to get into like the Kyrie Irving kind of conversation, which I mean Dallas certainly needs him as much as ever, given the way that their offseason is kind of shaping up. But more than that, if you are the Lakers, that's not really the answer. And so I think this middle ground approach, honestly, it does make sense. Reeves obviously is a very important piece to bring back.

Rui, I would be a little bit nervous about paying a lot of money, just given the fact that he's had an incredibly inconsistent career shot the hell out of the ball in the playoffs in a way we've never seen before, which makes me raise an eyebrow. But like, crazily. It was ridiculous that the shot making that was there. It wasn't just his spot-up game. He was making stuff off the dribble. He was taking, you know, sort of long twos that were going in.

His post game, when they would put smaller guys on him, where he would just bully guys to that. We've never seen Rui Hachamora play this way. It kind of reminds me different circumstance, but like it made me think of this. I don't know if you guys remember when Josh Richardson first came up with the heat and the guy could not miss a freaking three

to save his life. And everybody was just like, what, how are the heat doing? What is going on? And it's my belief that he's still skating off of that reputation when he first burst onto the scene in the NBA. And he's never really gotten there again,

particularly as a shooter, right? And I don't want to curse Rui to that destiny, right? I would love to see him become some consistent 38% shooter on high volume. That would mean incredible things for Laker fans. But man, I don't know how you pay him based off what he did in the postseason. That seems insane to me. Josh Richardson out here just looking for like a cap exception this summer, you know, hoping to latch on with some team.

Right, how many deals? Just slapping him upside the head. I'm just saying, how many teams do to deserve? How many teams since then have thought Josh Richardson was like the answer to their 3 and D needs and all of that stuff, all based off of how he came into the NBA? Once traded for Jimmy Butler in a sign-in trade. Remember those healthy on days? My soul. Jesus Christ. Unfortunately for the Lakers, it seems like it's going to take longer to dig themselves out of the Russell Westbrook mess than it did to get into it.

and your mileage on how unfortunate that may be depends on how much you think LeBron put his foot to the pedal there and made that Westbrook deal happen in the first place. I think they could be a really interesting team with just like some moves, but being more patient, in part because as we talked about before, this team is actually pretty good at drafting. The track record extends back well before LeBron. It's funny right before we went on here, I saw on Instagram. I think it was a House of Highlights video where it's like the 2017 Summer League Lakers went crazy. And I was like, what the fuck are we talking about? But the team actually went crazy because it was like, Kuzma. It was wild. It was wet and wild. Kuzma, Lanzo, Lanzo, Ingram, Caruso.

Like, it was like all of the hits. Zubach was on that team. Like, they actually are pretty good of drafting. And like, they ushered in a new one this year. I think people are pretty mixed on that pick. But like, if they just have like a cadre of young guys plus some of these veterans that we all seem to like like Reeves. Like this could be an interesting team in two years, but unfortunately the bronze is going to be 40 at that point. There were more Laker fans at the Thomas and Mac Center that summer than I think there were at many like Charlotte Bobcats and San Antonio Spurs games this year.

Like it was, the roof was blowing off that place for Lonzo Ball Summer League basketball. Yeah. And it's so much so that they, summer league, the powers that be at Summer League were like, yeah, we can't just be putting real games in the small gym.

Like, we actually have to plan out the schedule for freaking summer league depending on who's playing. So, yeah, that was definitely a legendary summer league moment. But my thing is, as mad as LeBron wants to get, this is a team that went to the conference finals last year. Like, that can't be forgotten. Again, they dispatch Golden State and Memphis pretty easily. Some might say that the Nuggets dispatched them just as easily,

but I wouldn't, I would kind of disagree. A lot of those games came down to the wire. I think the Nuggets had to sweat for a few of those wins. And I think with some tweaks, they could be, you know, they could be knocking on the door and giving the Nuggets some trouble and be just as good. It's not better again than Golden State and the Sacramento's and teams of that nature. So, you know, that's why I want to watch what they do

because they did get so. Like, this was like 10 degree burns from the Russell Westbrook deal, right? Right? That deal damn near killed them as a team. And so, you know, this is why I'm really fascinated by what Rob Polinka and the rest will do. Yeah, and there's room for us here to say, like, okay, we're a little concerned on how they get better. We're a little concerned on some regression to the mean stuff with some of these role players. But ultimately, you're right, Wads. Like, this is a team that even before the playoffs, we were forecasting for next season.

Like, could this be, I think you brought this up as like a 50-win roster going forward? I was highly skeptical and proven very wrong about the Lakers' chances. We're all about accountability on this podcast. And I think what they are playing for, and I think what makes me a little bit nervous, is I would love to see them lock in more solid playoff positioning, right? You don't want to have to play your way in again. You want to get a solid top six seed.

And that's going to come down to how much can LeBron play, how much can AD play? because if you're relying on, you know, D. Lo carrying you for a two-week stretch in January, I don't know that you're going to get that again. Like, he had those moments last season. I wouldn't necessarily bet on it again. And so they're going to have to cobble it together on the fly, but they've shown an ability to do that.

Speaking of which, this just reached my mind because Kauai just got knee surgery. What's the clippers? You know, they just passed. They just said, you know, it's. It's just a cleanup. Just a surgery on your freaking knee, you know, invasion of the knee. It's just a cleanup, guys. It's just like, you know, when you go to the dentist and you get the clean, it's just like that.

But with your freaking knee, Kowaj's got that. What's going on with LeBron's foot? There was a surgery. I was waiting for the connection here. I was like, oh, the Lakers need just the cleanup job? What's going on on LeBron's foot? Is he getting surgery? Is he just going to play on?

this thing for the rest of his career. Like, I'd love to get an update on that. I won't hold my breath. But, yeah, because Rob just mentioned guys need to play so that they could get a decent seating and they're not fighting for their lives. The minute that the playoff,

the playing starts, I wonder what's going to happen with LeBron's knee and if he's going to have to need a surgery or if he's just going to go in and be like, whatever, F Fett, the LeBron James of Feet said, I don't need surgery and this is how I'm going to proceed for the rest of my career. how delicious would it be if we went full circle here

and then LeBron is taking cues from Kyrie and is threatening to delay surgery now before he goes into the season unless they do something the grasshopper grasshoppy sort of situation I don't know about that grammatical structure never

never rehab on company time or oh sorry only rehab on company time this is very important lessons you almost got it All right. Let's go with your team now, Rob. Okay, you were right. You nailed me, Justin.

You figured me out. I want to talk about the San Antonio Spurs. A team that I'm guessing a lot of our listeners did not watch much of last season. That's fine because they're going to be a very different team to say at least with Victor Webbing Yama. Listeners, your podcast co-host. I don't want to air you out like that. But if we're calling it out, we're calling it out. Most importantly, I think the teams that are the teams that are,

are rebuilding right now are going to have to think about it a little bit differently in this new CBA. And forgive me, forgetting like a little bit wonky with this stuff. But we don't exactly know the restrictions of what the new CBA will be because believe it or not, like teams don't have a copy of it yet. But the ones that have been reported, the stipulations that have been reported are the teams that are not spending up to the salary floor are going to have a lot more restrictions and impositions put on them in terms of how they navigate, how they spend money and when. The long and short of it is I don't think it's going to be tenable for the Spurs to do what they did last season,

which is go into the season significantly under the cap, which is why you're seeing teams like them and the Rockets in all of these like free agent rumors and trade rumors as teams that could take on or sign players to a lot of salary. I have no idea what San Antonio wants. Like, do they want more Biggs to protect Victor in his first season? Do they want professional lead guards to run an offense and get him into spots? Do they want more wing depth? Do they want to take flyers on young guys?

And I think that freedom, the fact that we don't know what they want and they could want a little bit of anything and everything, puts them in a really interesting off-season position where they're incredibly hard to gauge and they could be just like the mystery suitor for any number of players on the market. I think what people need to understand also, one of the stipulations that you say,

well, why would the players agree to this artificial depression of their salaries where, and I know we're going to get into this, and if you've done any freaking reading of NBA content, listen to a single podcast, you're about tired of hearing about the quote-unquote second apron. It's like, it's mind-numbingly annoying how often this shit has come up since they've agreed in principle to this new CBA. But one of the stipulations is that teams can no longer not reach that salary floor. So if you don't do that, you don't get to part.

not only are there constraints or how you built the roster, you don't get to participate in luxury tax payouts, right? Like, you don't get to get the checks. Just to clarify, you have to do it before you go into the season as opposed to at the trade deadline. So you can no longer hold your cap space and do what like the Pacers did for Miles Turner and just give him a lump sum of money midway through the season. Yeah.

Yeah. And so the Spurs are going to have to use this money no matter what. And, you know, they're going to want to use it on somebody who's useful. They're not just going to spend the money on a guy who can't do anything, even though I think they're probably still interested in lottery balls, if we're being quite honest here. They're not going to, you know, go for the fences and try to get some actual huge difference maker. But I think it's important that, and I say this all the time,

like, your young guys should be surrounded by some level of competence, build some level of winning, habits and attitudes and professionalism. And they shouldn't just have, you know, the freaking run of the place and be allowed to do whatever they want and have no standards, right? And so I think they should. And also, I don't think, I think it's a delicate balance between developing a guy, right, and making his minutes a given as a young guy. I think there should be some competition for minutes, even for guys that you think

are going to be the future of the franchise. They shouldn't just be allowed to, you know, just be completely horrible all day and get all the minutes they want. But I don't know that you should do a James Wiseman situation either where you're yanking the guy because your team has championship expectations. So I do think there's a delicate balance to be played there. And I think the Spurs would be smart to do that by getting in some competent pieces for sure. Yeah. And if you're a fan of these teams who need just like one mid-level signing, you know, you're eyeing these role players. you're loving the idea of your team picking up a Bruce Brown or a Kyle Kuzmo's,

you know, that's a bit of higher market. But guys in that range, these like good, useful NBA players, veterans who know how to play, who can show younger players, like important habits, how to function on a floor together, how to find your spot. I don't know. Like, I think the Spurs could be a logical fit for a lot of those teams. And it's a weird market because overall, there are not a ton of big cap space teams out there. but the fact that the teams that are going to be rebuilding now have to spend,

it does turn the market upside down a bit. And, you know, it could make for a very interesting summer for, you know, your Josh hearts, your, you know, younger prospects if you want to go like a Hamadu Dialo. Or on the trade end, like Monta Morris, like, why would you not trade for Monta Morris if you're the Spurs? You know, why would you not trade for a caretaker point guard who can keep the trains running on time? I think it could make a lot of sense for all parties. And on the free agent side, I mean, some of these guys could get freaking pay. paid to show up to San Antonio,

play a couple years with one of the most exciting young players in the league, and see what you got, see where you end up in the long run. Do we think players are as excited about what Minyama as media is? They seem... I mean, no, no one is excited as media is. Okay, yeah. I think they're intrigued.

I love the doubts coming from Waz right here. Listen, I'm not doing a zag here. We're going to save that. for for later in the summer and sounds like my nuggets takes where it's like I'm not zagging but I'm like I'm not I'm not zagging I'm not zagging I'm not zagging the guy's the future of the league you know best prospects since Ben Hogan yeah no I did answer a question no I don't think anybody's as excited as as media are so the spurs have 38.6 million that's the current projection from Keith

Smith and spot track that's a lot of money to play with I guess the question, Rob, like, who do you get to fill that? I mean, you mentioned Monty Morris. I think that's a really interesting one, a caretaker point guard that they don't really have, unless you're a big fan of Trey Jones. There's also a free agent. It should be noted. Also a free agent.

What about a center? Like, would it make sense for a Yakup Pearl reprisal? Bring him back in there, have him take some lumps for Webben Yama, who seemingly is going to be on more of a Kauai-esque, like, a manicured schedule, at least for his first season. Like, who makes sense for you? I think another big makes sense, whether it's Pertil or somebody else. Man, Pertil would be just such a strange little closing of the loop from them trading him in the first place.

They got their pig back and then they get Pertil back. Could be a nice little turn of events. But especially because, you know, you hear some whispers that Webiniamma may not be super eager to be like a full-time center right out of the gate. And so I think it makes sense to at least have some other bigs in reserve. You know, Zach Collins is going to be a factor for them. Like they're going to have some bodies, but you could always use one or two more, especially if they're guys like Pertil who can show them the ropes, right?

Like if you want someone to teach the ends and outs of rim protection at the NBA level of like just kind of the normal work-a-day big like boxing out level stuff, I think a player like that could be really helpful. I'm a little bit more focused on the point guard side than that. I think bigs are useful. but to me, look, maybe this is just my inner pickup basketball big coming out. If you have point guards who cannot be relied upon to get bigs in the right position to score, you can have a lost season very, very quickly.

And I think Trey Jones is a very interesting player. I think I'm still investing in him, certainly if I'm the spurs. I'm giving him opportunities. But he's just not at the level of some of the other veteran professional guards that could be available and are not going to knock the socks off of some of these other teams in the market. like, you know, even your Pat Beverly's and your Dennis Schrooters are not changing the world of some other teams. But they could kind of change your world if you're the Spurs a little bit. Yeah, folks at home can drink.

I would love to see Gay Vincent in here. I think he would be a beautiful vid. Another heat player, I think Max Struce would work as a guy who's already played in a Spurs-esque ball movement continuity type of system. He's one of those to borrow a phrase from Bill. He doesn't take things off the table, right? He's going to guard his position. He's going to make shots when open. He's not going to give you anything off the dribble,

but that's not what you're going to be asking them to do. You're talking about professionalism and competence at a premium position and a guy that just, to me, would just slot perfectly into what popping them would try to do. And if they were really, really trying to get freaky, if they were trying to, you know, switch things up in the, the bedroom, so to speak, Justin, what they would do is try to

throw a bag try to throw a bag at Fred Van Vleet. Okay? And that is Davit-Tailing perfectly with my player that I want to talk about because I think

when they developed Kauai Leonard, who did they have on their team? Just veterans, legends, professionals, right? And Kauai was able to develop in that environment, I think somebody like Fred Van Vleet would really, you know, add to that. And he's a point guard's point guard, you know. And so I think if they really wanted

to just be like, you know, fuck this. Oh, we're kind of rebuilding, blah, blah, blah. Let's go to other direction. Let's get somebody who's legitimately great and would be a beautiful pairing with when Benyama and aid him in his development. I just never got over when you want to switch it up in the bedroom call Fred Van Vleet. Of course. Do you want to have the ostensibly sexy Fred Van Vleet question now because we keep kind of circling it? Yeah, let's do it.

Okay, so he would be on Waz's free agent list. Well, Was, what makes him so interesting? Is it just the fact that he could fit in so many different situations? Is that? Is that end? I think when he signed his first deal, right? he mentioned that he was waiting in line patiently for Kyle Lowry to kind of do his thing

and let that run its course and let him take the reins of the team. He got that opportunity, even made an all-star team, but we got to admit, man, things are pretty stale in Toronto right now. And I think he might want to take on a different challenge. Sure, you're not going to be chasing rings with any of the super duper salary cap having team.

when it comes to Houston or San Antonio. And, you know, in the case of San Antonio, like to go from a city like Toronto to the goddamn riverwalk, I wouldn't be advocating for that level of decision. However, man, like you guys said, it's got to be at least pretty exciting to get on the ground level

of what the Wembeeniyama experience is going to be. And again, if they're willing to pay this man to do so, you know, I think it's something he should definitely look at. Look, Toronto, I think, is going to, if the offers get to be to like $40 million where make no mistake, I'm of the belief that Fred Van Vleet is a $35 million

player straight up. He's an above average. When his body is right, he's nipping on the edges of all-star level point guard. You know, so to me that's a $35 million guy. Of course, he's been a minutes workhorse with

you know, Nick Tibado up there. But like, I still think like he's worth all of that money. And so to me, for him, it's like, what do you want to do? Do you want to stay on the Toronto treadmill? I know everybody loves Mesa and he's always on the brink of something

special, but ain't shit happened since 2019, dogs. So, like, at a certain point, you got to do something different if you're Fred Lively, or you might, you should consider not that you have to, you should consider doing something different. He definitely should, but he's going to have options.

He is such an appealing player. He is such an easy fit with so many different kinds of teams. I think we're going to hear from the spurs and the rockets of the world. We'll see if the Sixers, if they do lose James Hardin, whether they have interest, there's some mixed reporting on that front right now and whether they would be interested in Fred. But he's been linked to the magic. He's been linked to the Lakers, as we discussed earlier. Any team who has really a hole in either guard spot could probably talk itself into Fred Van Vleet right now.

And so it's just a matter of like, do you have the pieces to make a potential sign and trade deal work? Or do you have the cap space to sign him out right? and I'm with you that San Antonio makes a lot of sense if that's something he's willing to sign up for and he's a guy who's already a minted champion who's already made a good deal of money in this league but also seems invested in the idea of being a good teammate of making young guys better

of being part of a process in a way that I don't it would not totally shock me if he signed up for one of these rebuilding situations. Yeah, he is definitely, we talked about him before as someone who could raise the floor of a team in almost professionalized an environment. I think the distinction is a well-manacured culture like to Spurs versus whatever the hell is going on in Houston.

Houston, as Rob mentioned, is the team that keeps getting brought up with him. And maybe he could just make boatloads of money and just like hang out at James Hardin's favorite strip club and just live a very happy life. But that does seem... Family man. How dare you? Well, even a family man loves a good time at a gentleman's club, as you well know, was. I very well know.

So I think that sort of choice. is going to be interesting because he does kind of have, if you're like painting your dream for Fred or like where do you expect him to go versus like where you want him to go? I honestly expect him to remain with Toronto. There's something about, yeah, I think there's something about the guys who believed in the vision of your abilities actually still paying you that is very appealing, right?

A lot of times sometimes it's like, oh, we love you, Fred. won't you help the team out, blah, blah, blah. They try to, you know, they try to jerk you on your money a lot of times. But if they're actually going to pay you, I think he comes back. I think the most exciting things would be some level of a sign and trade with one of the, you know, decent contenders out there. You mentioned the Lakers. You know, back in the days, Dallas used to be such a huge destination for Fred. But I think that's out of the question.

I don't think the Celtics quite have what it would take to execute that level of sign-and-trade stuff. I think it would start to hurt them to try to cobble that kind of thing together. But could you imagine Fred Van Vlitt actually professionalizing that outfit and bringing some real toughness and gumption and championship pedigree over there, Justin? Why the heparzzygous. This is where you being off Twitter, it really pains me. I need you to Google salary cap, shmallery cap, and read the results that come up. Listen, we had a whole episode while you were out. Again, again, but this is the thing, though, all of that second apron crap, like, it shouldn't matter to a team that's knocking on the freaking door the way the Celtics are.

Another team that we're going to talk about, yeah, cool. But when you're as rich as the Celtics and you're as good. good as the Celtics, I don't want to hear about the new restraints or constraints. Since we're kind of circling the CBA fearmongering going on, why don't we go into my team, which is the Alina Hawks, which is executed a deal, which really kind of signals, I think, what might be coming and what teams might be finagling or doing a little untoward as a result of this, which is the Atlanta Hawks, they dealt John Collins into Utah's cap space for virtually nothing. It was Rudy Gay's

contract which he had to actually up into in order to make this trade work and a future second round pick. And now the ESPN headline would suggest that the biggest part of this for the Hawks was that they opened a huge exception. Not just any salary cap

exception. A huge exception. Now, how many times do teams actually use those salary cap sections? It's probably somewhere in like maybe single digits of percent, but they do have that at their disposal. I've seen or read or heard. I don't remember where, but like something like 20 percent, something like that.

Okay. Which means 80 percent of the time they don't. Right. But for all intents and purposes, this seemed like a money saving. It's a salary dump. It's a dumb. And I do think what you're going to see is certain teams who no longer want to pay a certain amount of money use what I think is fair to call fear mongering over the,

the second apron tax as a way to basically clear their books, to basically not pay as much as they want to. And I mean, just the fact that they dumped Collins for literally nothing, I think speaks to that. And I think it's going to get us into some dicey territory. Yeah, this is almost like the way to launder deals and reputations

and impressions of moves. Now that we're in the full fan as fantasy GM era of the NBA, where everyone is so obsessed with player movement, where everyone is focused on the mechanics and the trade machinification of the league. Now, if a trusted reporter says, oh, this move, this team did this move because of fear of the second apron.

It's like, oh, I mean, the second apron, what can you do? Absurd. As if the Hawks were going to be some crazy tax team. Like, they were never going to be, under the old CBA, these guys weren't going to pay no tax. They're like, on the first apron, like, this is not a first.

first apron team under the old rules. So like the idea that they're using the excuse of the second apron is ridiculous. And I'm not, you know what, the results of this Hawks nucleus, if you could even call it that. Yes, I guess they made a conference championship. So like, okay, I guess we could call what they were some level of nucleus. We should probably use some other part of a cell to describe it. But whatever. I don't think it justifies the tax payment.

I'm actually not mad at the Hawks for salary dumping the results, man. It's a freaking playing team. You know, like you shouldn't be paying the tax. So where the heat? Right, exactly. Like, for a playing team that like just underachieve two years in a row. I understand dumping salary here, but make no mistake about it. It's not because of the second apron.

these fools were not going to pay up anyway. And they just, again, there's a way that teams with relationships with certain newsbreaking entities can sort of, quote unquote, soften a blow for their fans by saying, we're not just dumping talent because, yes, you did. You're not just going to easily replace John Collins, who admittedly I'm a lot higher on John Collins than literally every single body else in the league. every team in the league's existence is, like I admit to that bias,

but I don't think they're going to just replace his production with some minimum guy or some scrap heap guy or another salary dump from somewhere. Like, it's not going to happen, right? And they just got worse on purpose for money purposes. And you could say it's justified. They didn't perform. But that's what this is.

It wasn't just a regular exception. It was a huge exception. It was a huge exception. Who are they going to, like, this is like, when, when, fans, when you guys read this stuff from these media entities, what is the mechanism in place that a team is going to give the Hawks a guy that plays better than John Collins already does for nothing into their exception? What is that scenario?

It's a great question. Can anybody paint that scenario for me, please? Especially because within the same news story, it suggests that they wanted to save money. in some small part because they do have a lot of extension. We wanted to save money, but we're willing to spend. Right, exactly. For a player, for instance, like a 25-year-old who helped power your team to the Eastern Conference finals two years ago. It doesn't make any sense.

And by the way, I like A.J. Griffin, I think opening up playing time for him is a big deal. Sometimes some of these moves is like, hey, it's time for our young guys to sort of put up or shut up. And, you know, we shed salary in the process. This is the point of drafting and holding on to these guys and falling in love with them is to give them these opportunities. But yeah, sorry, I have a lot of opinions about the Hawkses. I used to think they could do things.

I think that's the question, though. Like, what is this team? Because they do have a lot of young guys. They do have a lot of guys who are due extensions, both veterans and rookies. And then they have Trey Young and DeAndre Hunter, who I think we would all agree are overpaid for what they're producing. And it seems like they're open to trading everyone except for Trey Young,

even though it seems like Trey Young should be the one that they're trading. And so, like, Rob, like, if you are running the Hawks, your Landry Field, you have Wojohn's speed dial, it seems, on multiple phones. Like, what are you doing? Like, what is your move? Yeah, the double one. Yes, exactly.

Shout to Joe Dumas. What am I doing as, like, running the Hawks? What is this team? Like, who's, who are you keeping, who you're throwing overboard if you had, like, your druthers? Man, I would have thrown DeAndre Hunter overboard two seasons ago, I think, is the problem. And, like, the continued investment in

his development versus John Collins, that's where I get mad was. I'm not mad that we got to this point. We've been going to this point. I just don't understand how we got here to begin with. And so now that we're here, now that we're in this place, I'm absolutely gauging the market for Hunter. I'm trying to reconceptualize what this team can be. You need to try some pretty radically different things, I think, around Tray Young to make

this way and Dejante Murray to make this work. Like I think the core of that could be something, but it's not where you've been. So to speak to the Hunter versus Collins situation, again, I'm very biased about John Collins. I think he's like objectively much better player in practice, in production than D'Andre Hunter, right? What you can, like people say, well, why do he get salary dumped? His three-point shot is kind of abandoned him. The Hawks themselves within the ecosystem and sort of evolution of how they play off. have started using him just way less,

not only just featuring him less than calling place from him. They don't even run picking rolls with the guy anymore, which is one of his hugest strengths. I think one of the weird things about a tweener like Collins is that, yes, he's an extremely great lob threat, but because he's not a rim protection sort of savant, you kind of have to have a guy next to him that rim protects.

And if that guy, which nine out of ten times they don't, doesn't space, he's sort of in the end. where John Collins' pick and roll action would actually work for you, right? So that gets nullified. And yeah, his three-point shot hasn't worked in a while. And so you can't even stretch him out to three when you're playing Capellas and a congwos and that kind of stuff. Like I understand why the value has been driven to the point it is.

And what they could say is, DeAndre Hunter, this GM speak anyway. This is always, like, whenever you hear an NBA reporter talk about value and blah, blah, blah. blah for a dude who's way fucking worse. He plays a more quote unquote premium position. He's a big wing. So potentially his value will be retained longer at a higher, you know, rate than John Collins because he's a huge wing and everybody agrees that huge wings are the most valuable position in the NBA.

However, the guy stunk up to join. His whole freaking career and he's on a bad deal. There's just no proof that he's going to be a useful player. they have a lot of interesting players they have a lot of interesting young players in particular they need to make sense of this team so to a certain extent I understand if they want to really shake things up but I do want to switch

to the other side of the CBA Fing or Mongrim because I do think this provides an opportunity like you saw with the jazz for a team basically not only having cap space like the spurs like we mentioned but potentially for a team that's star hunting because it does feel like some of these teams that built their teams so top heavy

namely the Minnesota Timberwolves they might be looking to get off money sometime soon. And so we pivot to our trade target and just so happen we all picked the same trade target who's Carl Anthony Towns. I assume it's because you guys all read his very in-depth feature

in GQ sports talking about him throwing out the first pitch at a Yankees game, right? Missed that, but this is why we need a potluck spreadsheet. You know, you don't want everyone bringing green beans and yet here we are. I don't know if Towns is green beans. He's definitely something a little bit more

empty calorie. A little more, a little more starchy. Potato salad. Yeah. And potato salad. That's tough. Absolutely no redeeming health qualities, all kinds of mayonnaise. Delicious, though. It's pretty delicious. It's pretty delicious. I'll mess with it.

But no, I do feel like, so this is what the wolves are up against here. They just paid Nasre three years, $42 million. That means next season alone, they are paying $90 million to three senators, and that's before they give an extension to Jada McDaniels, you think would make a pretty penny here. In 2024, 24,

2025, they have three contracts on the books. Kat, Gobert, Reid, totaling $110 million. So at the same position. Yeah, Justin, you mentioned they're paying $90 million for those three guys next season. Do you guys have a guess at how much the next highest total is for a team paying its collective centers right now? Oh, interesting. Centers.

So Minnesota, let me tell you, is number one with a bullet. I would say it's got to be like $60 million. Is it like, is it the nuggets if only because Yokic makes so much? It's under. It's the Lakers at $51 million, almost half as much as the wolves are spending on the center position alone right now. And he can play power forward. Like that's the, and that's the, that is the crux of the issue with Carl Anthony Towns. AD, yes, is a center.

But if you got a real center in there, he could play power. forward very easily, you know, not just on offense, but on defense too. You know, like he could do that easily. So his payment is so justified and obvious that you should be paying this guy this much. If the Lakers brought in the center, which I think they should, you know, we were talking about Wembe earlier and he's like not keen on it. I remember how much shit I used to give AD for crying about having to play center, how ridiculous it was.

But then the Denver series came and I was like, well, he got, he got to have a point. He shouldn't be the only center on the TV. He kind of has a point, right? I don't think he had Yokic and my,

I don't think he was ready for the things Yokic was throwing out of when he was worried about that. I think what he was saying is just like to bang with people. I can't be the only banger that exists on the roster. Right. And I understand that. Oh, God, here we go. He's calling me and Rob Fennesse players.

Fennesse Potters. I think the idea, though, that you would pay the need for a new banger, $45 million and for Future First and a bunch of other assets in the form of a Rudy Gobert, that's where it's just like, who are the teams that could bring Kat in at his price? He's kind of a, like to my mind, the wolves are clearly shopping this dude. I know I said this last year, this is a fact. They're trying to get off of this dude. But he's a kind of bizarre old Ben Simmons in the sense that the fit has to be so picture perfect in order for it to make sense to give real stuff up.

I don't think he's that specific a fit. No, he's not. I do. I do. I do because he's so trash on defense. It just, you know, and I remember when we were having this combo about Yolkich and how do you do it with Yolkich? He's so bad. You can't do it.

Blah, blah, blah. I think the wolves two years ago had the beautiful mix of long, rangy, flea-footed wings. And it just wasn't enough because they just got bludgeoned on the boards. They got bludgeoned in the paint. Nicole Yolkich is about to make a lot of shaky defensive centers a lot of money. You know, Rob, you almost didn't take the bait there to pivot this to a Nuggets conversation, but then I'm trying. You did it.

No, I brought up Bruce Brown. We talked KCP. Like, who else do you want to get into in the rotation over there? Christian Brown. I'm saying, what's the fit? What fit do you like? Obviously, he's going to be able to play NBA minutes unlike Ben Simmons. So, like, that's not what I mean.

I mean, I think the thing that complicated. Ben Simmons's trading market is the lack of plug and playability of Ben Simmons. Yeah, I think what would be in Towns' best interest would to go to a team that has a rock-solid culture like the heat. We'd mention them as a potential suitor before. I don't think that's going to happen. It seems like Lillard is destined to end up there. But failing that, I do think there is a talent grab here. I think there is a next level to Towns.

If he can just kind of get out of his way and like you mentioned was, just have guys clean up for some of the things he doesn't do as well. I think you could always go home. I think the Knicks are in a particularly interesting situation where they have set themselves up for the next star trade. And if teams are willingly going to give up those stars in order to get off the money, I think that the Knicks are in a position to like just grab whoever's available. And if that sounds, like I do think there is an interesting situation

where you could have towns, Brunson and whatever is left there and still be as good, if not better than you were last season. that's the kind of move it's going to have to be though is either a pure talent play or you know say one of the teams that we expect to be a contender goes into the season underperforms for the first few months wants to try something a little bit more dramatic and talks itself into that idea of towns could be the guy to fit with this core that we've seen be successful in playoffs past yet for whatever reason this regular season it's not quite clicking i can look he's so talented he's so interested he's so interesting offensively. And I think the other side of his particular fit is he fits some pretty particular players too in terms of what he can do stretching the floor.

It's just such a hard proposition with how much money he makes, what he is defensively. And honestly, some of his limitations on offense in terms of just like, can you give this guy the ball in positions to just go score, or is he going to have to be a secondary or even a tertiary player, depending on his

role with some teams? Let me ask you guys something. Does Carlton think his defensive output is acceptable. What do you think he believes in his heart? I think he probably believes that he can be a good defender when he's put in a position to be a good defender. And I don't know that that's entirely true. I think he thinks he's a good defender, Rob.

Like, that's the difference. I think he thinks the defense that he has played in his career is good enough. I think he thinks that because he's at a certain tier offensively. Like he thinks that's other people's problem. And to a certain extent, I think he's right, but he just hasn't shown enough on offense to actually earn that. I just completely disagree. I think guys like Yokic and Luca,

again, I've seen them play the car level level of defense. And then I've seen them in the playoffs play a more serious adult version of their defense. He just holy He had to be cajoled a little bit To be fair He did he had to get embarrassed But he did it He has it in him

He's put it on tape Carl Anthony Towns has never put it on tape And then he comes out And pretends that He is the second coming He is a 50-40-90 Almost Center Which we have to say

Is pretty fucking incredible The problem He changed the game And they had to pay $50 million dollars To improve the situation To play center I think he was probably on the precipice of like being in an MVP conversation had they not saddled him with Gobert.

And if he had just gotten his shit together going into last season, the problem is they keep changing things around him. And so like on the one hand, I don't disagree with you. I do think a lot of problems come from town just like his general like weird squishy like POV on everything. But I also think that there is in an optimized context like a very, very good, if not MVP caliber, in there somewhere. It's just going to take a team and the approach to bring it out of him. Yeah, he's in that range of player who's clearly wildly talented, who could be great in the right circumstance.

You know, he and Trey Young are discussed in the same sentences and the same breaths for a lot of the same reasons, right? You need a lot of help if you're those guys. But if you give them the requisite help, they can be pretty tremendous. And I think ultimately, this Nasreid contract is probably going to feel like a bellwether in retrospect. It's going to feel like the beginning of the end of the Carl Towns era in Minnesota one way or another, wherever he ends up.

I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but just it's just not financially viable to have all three of these guys on a long-term basis. And even beyond that, if you're in Minnesota, are you telling me you're just never going to play any kind of five-out lineup ever again? Are you never going to go small at the four at all? After, you know, Kyle Anderson was one of their best players last season, played 90% of his minutes at power forward. We're just never doing that again. more things have to be coming for the Wolves. Towns is the logical piece to go. He does still have fans in the league,

if not fans who are super eager to take on his contract and all the quirks that come with him, but I think he can win over some front offices who might just be desperate enough, whether because of underperforming seasons or if they just don't get the guys they expect to over the summer. So why isn't the Towns talk around the Knicks as hot as the Donovan Mitchell talk was last year?

They don't want his ass. Maybe that isn't the optimal fit, but I do think someone would make out if they landed towns for a relative bargain. Can I throw out more teams for you? Yeah. One more thing because you guys mentioned Trey Young, to me, they're similar players in the sense that they have to change how they play in order to be effective. And I'm not convinced that they believe that to be the case. What about this? So Houston has all of this cap space.

They do something similar to what John Collins just did, where they try. trade towns into Houston's cap space for either Jabari Smith or Jalen Green. So the wolves are now Edwards, let's say Smith, Gobert, Anderson. It's a little bit better of a fit, but obviously the talent isn't as great. No? You're just trying to make the, you're trying to make the talent shangoon front court happens? I think, I think Jabari Smith is too whack to, to, to, to, to, uh, whack a player to trade Carl Towns for.

But I don't think, I think the problem with Jalen Green, who I'm still holding out hope for is I don't think Anthony Edwards is at a point in his career where he could facilitate that working. He's still figuring his self out as an on-ball guy. And I just don't know, man. Like, I think, like, for instance, and this is, again, this is extreme stuff. But like, if Jalen Green went to the Warriors with Steph, I know Steph would make it work.

He would calibrate his on and off ball usage in such a perfect way that he would just make it work for this dude. You know what I mean? Like, he would make it work. He's just so, he's so in tune with what his game is and what he needs to do for the guys around him to succeed that I have the confidence that he could do that. I just don't think Ann Edwards

as much as I love the guy that he can do that for Jalen Green and to make that worth their while. But I'd definitely be listening for sure. Well, do you think Jabari Smith's whack quotient is higher than Towns Wack Quotion? Like, Towns is a pretty

whack guy too. Jabari Smith plays basketball in the way that like Siri or AI would play basketball if it became human form. it's just like, dribble,

do I shoot, this is no fluidity. It's robotic. To me, he's the least interesting of the three guys we just mentioned between

Houston and Minnesota. So yeah, not. To me, it's a Jalen Green conversation. So I'm going the opposite way. I'm going all flow here. Towns for Lamello

and Gordon Hayward's expiring contract. I think it would be way more interesting if Charlotte had drafted Scoot as opposed to Miller because Scoot could be the driving engine of a team whereas Miller seems like is more of like a secondary guy potentially. I think it's interesting.

Wads likes it. I love, love, love, love the idea of two guys who can actually make a spot-up shot around Ann Edwards and both Gordie Hayward and lamello ball and a dude that can actually do some facilitated when, you know, because it isn't table setting playmaking guy yet. Maybe one day he'll get there, but LaMello provides that. And so does Gordy Hayward in Spades.

He provides, I love that deal for a minute. Love it. That would be, that's a team. I'm like, yo, noise in the playoffs next season with that kind of deal. Particularly, particularly if Gordon Hayward stays healthy. Like, I love that as for the Timberwolves. Charlotte, I don't know what you do with Carl Towns, just pay them for nothing, I guess. That's the tough part.

Yeah, I think if you're Charlotte, you'd have to be pretty convinced that Lamello is unhappy or leaving potentially at some point because not only as a player, are they close enough that you might just want to bet on Lamello's future, but as a draw, Lamello is a unique ticket draw, merchandise draw. So far. Well, relative to Carl Towns, in terms of, like putting butts in seats in terms of selling merchandise in terms of doing the things that small market teams want. I think Lamello Ball is a much more successful player in that regard. But you kind of scratch my brain a little bit with this, what if Brandon Miller and Scoot Henderson's situations had been reversed bit?

I mean, what about Portland as an eventual destination in like a three-way Damien Lillard, Carl Towns? Like, let's get Towns and scoot on the same team there. If things go south with Dame, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing that kind of construction. I see. So scoot in towns and towns and. Portland. I kind of like that.

I'm ready to move to Portland at any point here. Just give me a team to go out for. I'm doing it. Rudy. Hmm. Interesting. I think it'd be tough. It'd be tough from a draft capital standpoint to make the one to one

Dame for town situation work. Like Dame is just clearly a much, much better player. But if you could get a third team involved that can supply some of those picks, maybe you can make it work. Yeah. All right. Since we're in the Midwest generally, let's look to our free agents.

Rob, do you want to kick us off here? Yeah, I'm interested in Brooke Lopez's future. That's Community Assist Award winner, Brooke Lopez. You know, give him his due. Look, we've had some indications this week that Chris Middleton will most, I think probably be back with the Bucks next season. That's certainly the way the winds are blowing right now. There's some optimism that Lopez could be gearing up for a return as well.

we'll see. And I'm kind of waiting to see how the other shoe drops with that just because losing Lopez at this point in time for the bucks would be such a catastrophic loss. They just have not shown the ability to defend consistently without him. Even if we factor in the idea that their defense is going to look a little different this year under Adrian Griffin, I just don't know that I'm banking full time on Bobby Portis at center

or whoever you want to plug into that spot or even Janice at center. Another guy who just has not necessarily shown a capacity. to be that on a full-time basis at an elite defensive level in the way that they want from Lopez. And so I just have a little bit of PTSD from the championship bucks not wanting to pay PJ Tucker to keep him on the team two years ago. And they literally cannot afford to make that mistake again

with Brooke Lopez. He's 35. He just had major back surgery not long ago. He's not ideal for every playoff matchup. But I literally do not know how this Milwaukee team tries to contend next season without a play. player like him on the roster. And so however you want to suss that out,

whatever it's going to cost to make that happen, I think you have to have some pretty serious conversations about how to keep Lopez, what to pay him, and of course the dreaded, you know, dramatic hands, second apron concerns that come with potentially resigning him and Middleton at the same time. I have a question. No, I just have a question to pose you guys.

Yep. Because I don't, I'm honestly, I'm not, I'm not even being an asshole. I'm not really even sure which side of the day. divide I fall on. I feel like you're about to be an asshole. If the price gets too ridiculous. Yeah.

What is too ridiculous? Because I think even a team friendly deal for Lopez at this point is probably in the 18, 19 million a year kind of range. 1819, 1819, we got to pay this guy. But I think that's him being. It could be. You know, like, 1819 is him being pretty friendly to the hometown, like, not hometown, but the championship discount, the core he's been a part of, wanting to sign up to stick around with an organization he likes. He made 14 last year.

Yeah. Here's the problem. You were healthy. You were playing incredible ball all season. You lost to the fucking heat. Yeah. I mean, Giannis wasn't healthy, but yeah. Okay.

A word of the asterisk. But, like, how important. how important is it to have this dude around? We couldn't beat the freaking heat with you. Right? And part of the problem was on defense, his unwillingness to put a hand in Max Truce's face, put a hand in Gaye Vincent's face,

put a hand in Jimmy Butler. That was part of the issue. So as incredible as he is as a rim protector, I'm wondering if I could, you know, sacrifice on the rim protection angle and get a guy who's just more versatile defensively against modern NBA schemes. You know, again, they didn't make it all the way to the finals. I think against, you know, a Yokic, by the way, if you look it up, Yokic is used and abuse

this guy in the past. But just theoretically, he would be more useful against that kind of a matcher. But I think even against the Nuggets, you need a guy who plays out in space, you know, for what they do off the ball. and in the two-man game. So I don't know, man. If the price gets too crazy, I'm looking at Brooke Lopez

and I'm just like, I could take a leave you, fam. See, I don't know. I think their ability to replace him is so limited. They would be basically the two paths, assuming Middleton resigns for a significant number,

the two paths are probably going to be bring back Middleton, bring back Lopez, and effectively fill out the rest of your roster with minimum guys. Because like that's, that's going to be

kind of what they have left to work with. And they're going to need to hit on like half of those minimum signings to be a really good championship level team. We'll see. I agree. I agree with both of you guys in that I agree with Waz that I think they could use some more versatility and flexibility. And if anything, I was silently hoping that Adrian Griffin would empower Janus as the true five and get a little bit more of like a stretch guide next to him. And they could be a little bit more versatile in a matchup like the heat as opposed to rigid, which Lopez kind of symbolizes because he's basically an end out there for your Lord of the Rings fans.

But here's the problem. I think Rob is right that, like, I don't know how you make that upgrade without bringing Lopez back. And even if you wanted to do some sort of sign-in trade, I don't even think that's possible under the cap because you'd be hard-capped. I think they're already over the hard cap. So I think you have to forge forward with the season of Lopez, and then maybe if it doesn't work again, you flip him the following year.

But you're right. I think they're really constrained. Yeah, the alternative path is you'd have to really pitch someone like a Grant Williams, a PJ Washington, on taking a really significant discount to come play with Janus and have a chance for a championship. I think those guys want to get paid personally. And I think there's going to be a market for their services that's competitive

enough where they'll let Brooke walk and try to replace him with a smaller, kind of stretchy or forward option. I don't know that it's going to have the financial heft to really tempt players, the level of player you would need to make that work. Yeah. bind. I had Chris Middleton as my free agent as well for similar situations. The one thing I will mention is it does seem like all the options are sort of drying up. Like the rockets are kind of the boogeyman for every agent out there who just wants to leverage their team in order to pay up.

And you've noticed. The new Kings, as it were. Absolutely. And so, and ironically, Milton was also rumored to go to the Kings as a potential option to fill their cap space. It seems like they're going to come back to Milwaukee would make the most sense for both of them to come back. But briefly, I do want to mention the Kings because they do have that cap space. They were one of the teams I had in the list, but a lot of people have talked about them. So I didn't want to start off with them. They have this money. They got rid of the number 24 pick in order to clear this money. Something's going on there. And it sounds like it might be Kyle Kuzma. Yeah. But I don't know. They do kind of have a lot of options in that for

offensive like stretch a little bit of defense guy role there. And I'm wondering if like any of those guys jump off the board to you, Rob. Well, James Hamm also just reported over, I think it was overnight that

the Kings and Harrison Barnes have restarted talks on a potential extension. So it could just be the cat face goes to Harry Barnes ultimately, which I'm sure Sacramento fans will be thrilled about given them, you know, they've talked themselves into all of these other alternatives,

Kuzma and otherwise, but I think what's interesting about Sacramento's situation is they're in a position to accommodate lots of different kinds of wings. You don't have to have a guy who fits just one kind of skill set. Like, Higin Murray's versatile enough and flexible enough as a prospect, that you could slot lots of different guys in there. And that's why we're talking about Chris Middleton.

It's why we're talking about guys like Kuzma. I love that kind of flexibility for them. And ultimately, that's kind of what they need if you're going to be a Domas Sabonis team, which locks you into search. styles of play at certain times. You want some positional flexibility, some role flexibility. It seems like where can you operate on the floor flexibility?

And guys like Coosmo would go a long way in that regard. I love that fit. I think the fact that negotiations have reopened with Harrison Barnes suggests maybe the kings are a little nervous about whether they can get Coosma or not, or maybe just trying to play a little hardball and say like we have other options available. We'll have to see how that ultimately pans out. but I love the idea of like a combo forward there. Yeah, I assumed it was going to be Kuzma as a younger replacement for Harry Barnes.

One, because Harry Barnes is very replaceable. And two, I think, and two, like, Cal Kuzma has just been like, I guess like just telling people like, I'm getting paid this summer. And when I saw that cap space opened up, open up over there, I was like, man, that seems like, the Kuzma destination, but, you know, like I said, I guess we'll see. Yeah, if they open up their cap space just to re-sign Harrison Barnes and extend De Manusabonis, who they could have extended regardless, that would be a disaster. That's Pelicans level. We're going after Kyle Lowry.

Whoops, we're trading for Devante Graham level like fuckery with their cap space. If I'm not mistaken, giving up a first round pick for Devante Graham. Right. Exactly. Can I throw out the guy I am dreaming that they end up with? Sure. I'm hoping that the Portland situation falls on its face and Dame wants out and all of a sudden our friend Jeremy Grant is looking for work. And then he slots into that, gives them a little bit more defense at that position, but still enough of like maybe like the second or third option offense.

That would be nice. I think he would round out that team and make them very dangerous. Super dangerous and they're extremely high tempo. I think in Kuzman, he's a well-conditioned guy, but he is not the. sort of athlete that Grant is. And so, yeah, I think that would be fantastic fit for them. And I think age-wise, it even works, too. Mechanically, I really like, whether Grant or Kuzma, that kind of, like, off-the-hand-off

pull-up shooter threat, which Harrison Barnes is not. I think Barnes, honestly, had a really solid season. I thought he was much better than I think people understand it. Getting to the rim in those circumstances, like turning the corner, drawing fouls, getting to the basket was really important for them. But he's just not the level of like take the handoff from Sabonis at the three point line and immediately pull up and hit with consistency level of player that they probably need from that spot. Grant has lots of reps doing stuff like that, playing in exactly that kind of capacity.

And Kuzma could be really good in it as well. So just in terms of like how those guys shoot, I like their fit a little better than Barnes. Only problems just particularly with Grant, if you look at his, the guy does not freaking rebound for whatever reason. as athletic and explosive as he can be in other facets of his game. He refuses to crash aboard. But we've seen people transform before, right? Just up the road in Golden State, we've seen Andrew Wiggins turning the damn near Dennis Rodman up there

after being just literally refusing to even try on that end. So maybe he can get better at that. But I love the Grant idea over there. Well, the visions of Jeremy Grant as the next Andrew Wiggins are probably muted somewhat by the lingering nightmares over Kavana Luni, cleaning, like, just destroying DeMontasabonis on the glass. Oh, man. I'd be a little nervous about that rebounding combination.

Kavana Luni, future six-man of the year award winner. Because apparently he's now coming on attention. Let's not do this, please. Let's talk in a few months. All right. Let's wrap it there. Rob and I will be back on Friday for a free agency Bonanza for the first day. uh waz unfortunately has a wedding to go to so he won't be joining us but he'll be there in spirit

and if you want to text in your takes uh you're more than welcome to do so we'll do i'm going to be at in cabo uh at the wedding of my my my childhood friend anthony shouts to my brother anthony um he's getting married we've been for instance we were 12 years old guys um that's standing in 25 years for those of you counting at home and so yeah man really excited to see him get married on friday also my first time in Cabo. So maybe I will call in, you know, a few mescal's deep and get my free agency takes, y'all. Well, look, free agency hasn't even started. One for agent already off the market.

Congrats to Anthony. Shout out. Salute. All right. We'll be back on Friday. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. We'll see you next time.