The Ringer NBA Show - The Most Intriguing Teams as Trade Season Begins. Plus, an NBA Cup Semifinals Anticipation Index. | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 13, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos recap two of the NBA Cup quarterfinals games, the Hawks beating the Knick,s and the Rockets beating the Warriors. Then they preview the semifinal matchups and who they think will win it all. Then, as trade season is about to begin, they take a look at a handful of teams that could be looking to get some deals done (29:40). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck because every episode of the rewatchables and the big picture. Now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer Movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables, as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving ringer personalities. Search Ringer movies on YouTube and experience the joy. Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera.

Welcome to group chat. I am Justin Marrier. And joining me, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. I had made a suggestion that we had some cause, some cause to the top of this episode when we named some of our guys, but no one was for it. We shoot down most of your bits, I find, just like by the numbers. You're a volume shooter, which I respect about you. But Waz and I are just like swatting things away on a regular basis, this among them. I genuinely didn't know that he was making Hawks sound. I didn't know what he was doing so it wasn't even me hating on the bit I didn't realize what the bit was

Yeah, that's part of the bit Okay Our Hawks That's right They did it They're here They're rolling the dice They're going to Vegas

They love it They knew we were going to Vegas And they were like We have to get there for group chat You know we have to punch the ticket We have to have this incredibly exciting Quarter Final game And you know

They really did not disappoint One of the more impressive Hawks wins of the season. And that's honestly saying something, given the kind of performance that they've had overall. So oftentimes I'm looking at NBA results through the lens of, you know, one, my own takes and the takes of this show collectively. And because we've one of the few podcasts out there that will spend like 15 minutes on Dyson Daniels on a freaking, you know, seventh seed, because we wanted a few pods that did that, watching him,

put freaking Jalen Brunson in a straight jacket last night. My heart melted, boy, for our show and for myself. Well, we'll get to that in a bit. We'll also get to some early trade season, just surveying, some primers, because that's going to start percolating soon. But we're going to Vegas this weekend. The Hawks are going to Vegas this weekend. And you, our fair listener, could go to Vegas this weekend.

can, or at least see the games, courtesy of your boys at the group chat podcast. We have tickets, right, Waz, for every games. All three games. Yes, sir. So just so folks know, these are two, a pair of tickets for both semifinals games on Saturday, as well as the finals on Tuesday. I will have you guys know these tickets came via the NBA directly for, you know, for VIPs. Look at you with the disclaimer.

Ethical podcasting. Listen, these is not joke tickets. These are some serious tickets from our partners at the NBA. And, yeah, we're giving away a pair for the NBA Cup semis as well as the finals. Now, Justin, how are people to win these tickets? What are they supposed to do? Strap in because it's a multi-part exercise here. All right.

First, here's what you got to do. You got to subscribe to ring her NBA. on YouTube at the ringer MBA. You could find it. There's already a lot of subscribers, but you subscribe, take a screenshot that you have subscribed. Email us at group chat at ringer group chat at gmail.com.

We want to see that screenshot in the email. In addition to that, we also want you to name a guy. We love to name a guy. We want to hear your best guy that you can come up with, not multiple guys. I want one guy, not seven guys, one guy. And we will pick the best winner as a result.

If you also want to, I don't know, leave us a comment on one of our more recent. There's ways to goose the results. I remember back in the day FD and Y when you took the exam, if your father was FDNY, you got like 15 extra points. Wow. On the exam. So, you know, if guys want to leave a comment on our latest video, you know, the six big things video that we got on YouTube.

They listen and might sway things in your direction. Who's to say, guys? Who's to say? No one could confirm or deny. But also if your father subscribes to the ringer NBA feed, maybe there's some extra points. If you tweet at Timothy Shalamee telling him to follow us

on social media, maybe there's some extra points. Be creative, you know? We're trying to give you one person, six tickets, a whole blowout weekend in Vegas. You got to earn a little bit starting with subscribing to the YouTube feed, emailing us at ringer group chat at gmail.com, naming not just a guy, Justin, the best guy.

The number one guy. Yeah. And also, if you get Timmy to follow any of us, you could have one of our media seats, but we can figure that out. Easy to happen. Okay. So last time we're saying this, screenshot, your subscription to the Ringer MBA YouTube page. Email us, ringer group chat at gmail.com.

That screenshot plus your best guy. That's it. That's the bit. We'll pick a winner. I think what, Friday, sometime on Friday. We'll email you back. You'll get the tickets from Waz. We'll go from there. Maybe we'll hang out with you. Probably not, but that's okay. Again, if you provide photo evidence of other engagement with YouTube group chat content, it might help you in your favor. Not the real ones. Not the WMBA show. So, Chad, remember where you bread is butter, folks. That's right. Last piece of business, we'll be recording, as we mentioned on the previous podcast, Saturday night after the semifinals,

we'll be live in Vegas. So look for that next episode. Saturday night, Sunday morning, sometime around then, that will replace our usual Monday episode. So that's it. Let's get into some of the action from last night. Pretty good early games,

Kaka and all that. I got to say, as excited I was about the Hawks, Rob, I was a little disappointed to see how easy it was to take not only the Knicks out of the game, but Jalen Brunson out of the game, and as a result, things kind of fold from there. I mean, easy as a stretch. Probably. Dyson Daniels is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league.

So not exactly light work to curtail Jalen Brunson. Also, we saw ways in the first half in particular where the Knicks did bust off a little bit, did find some advantages. They just got worn down, I think, by the old. overall activity of the Hawks, by how switchable, by how flexible they are, by, you know, a timely notion given our previous conversation on the last pot about who the best player from the 2021 draft class would be, Jalen Johnson, being the best guy on the floor for the majority of this game. Like our whole point about could he be the best player in that draft class?

This is the vision of what that, like how that conversation manifests, how that reality manifests. I don't know what Jalen Johnson can't do. at this point. And that's such an exciting place to be when he's a core of a team that is admittedly pivoting and trying to find itself and reestablishing this new identity. And it wins you games like this one, even really competitive games where, let's say this about the NBA Cup, everyone wants to win these games. Like the level of competition is super high. The defensive intensity is super high. Guys are getting floor burns, trying to get themselves to the Vegas. They are, as you said, Justin, rolling dice at half court. I've been thrilled with the

overall level of competition. I'm thrilled with our Atlanta Hawks. Yeah, I want to add to that, Trey Young, who again, another person who we, you know, we gave love to on the last show for the different role

that he's taking with this Hawks team. But again, another conversation we had on the show, interesting NBA superstar, Trey Young. I'm not afraid to antagonize a rabid, insane,

Harding crowd throughout that. That's what I love. It's before the game, during the game, after the win, this man is in pure villain mode, and it makes for such great entertainment. And I can't wait for the next time the Hawks play the Knicks. I can't wait for the next time Trey Young is in the, is in Madison Square Garden. So I thought that was also, you know, just a highlight for me, man, like this guy taking this rivalry that he's basically made out of whole cloth.

Like, teams play each other in the playoffs all the time. They don't end up being in rivalries afterwards. And that Trey Young has extended this three years since they played in the playoffs. I just love that. I love that aspect of last night's game. A genuine question. How many Knicks are even left from that particular series? So true, dude.

Yeah. Zero? I think it's zero. Yeah. I don't think anybody was. Because Brunson wasn't there. Was Mitch Robinson? Was Mitchell Robinson?

on that Knicks team. Maybe. You might have been. There is not a single Nick left. These are some of the New York Knicks who played when this became a rivalry. Derek Rose, Alec Berks, Reggie Bullock. This is obviously Obie Toppin, Julius Randall time, R.J. Barrett. Legendary Knicks.

Our friend, Frank Nilakina, Alfred Payton. Wow. Eilchina was still in the league. Pelicans legend, Alfred Payton, Kevin Knox, Nerlins, Noel, Taj Gibson. those guys are not Nix anymore. Trey Young is keeping the hate alive and we have no choice but to respect it. But that's telling because this was really Trey Young's thing up until now, right? He had been carrying the torch, the flame of his performance against the Knicks up until now.

And as a result, things have been a little messy. But like I think this is the best version of Trey. He almost seems like he's moving past that version where he has to be the center of everything. But you saw in this game where like he was being passed first, until the Knicks shut off everybody else and he had to score and then he did that and then he went back into past first mode

and just the process involved with the Hawks just seems so seamless. And now I think there will be times when Risha Shea and Daniels and some of these other guys that aren't Jalen Johnson will gum up a little bit. The offense isn't quite there.

I guess if DeAndre Hunter is going to score 20 points a game at this point much to Rob Schergin. What is going on? I have no means to explain it. It is, him scoring is working. It did take him like until

the 47th minute of the game to get a rebound, which is part of the DeAndre Hunter experience these days, apparently. It's just like, Trey just like activating all of these different options around the court. It works. They're like eight to nine deep of like solid ass guys. And like we'll see in Vegas, like the limits of that. They're going to go up against a Bucks team that's like kind of hitting its stride

or as much of a stride as you could hit when Milton is still a little hobbled, still on a minute's restriction. but like I think this is like the prime candidate I want from these early cup games where it's like I want to see what the Hawks will be on this stage. Can they live up to a team like the Thunder or anything that we're expecting to be at the top of the NBA? Yeah. And to do with depth is not just cool, but I think emblematic of this season and the teams that

are doing well overall, it is like a deeper NBA right now as far as what is driving winning. The Knicks are not a team that go eight or nine deep at present. They are in desperate need. of one or two more guys, or at least a little more stability from the Miles McBride campaign version of their roster. And we've seen, like, you know, Jericho Sims has had good moments and good games, but just like isn't really relevant in a game like this one. Preciousa Chua has been kind of coming back and working his way into the mix. They need him. They badly need him. And he is

an erratic player in and of himself. They're in a precarious spot with their bench in particular, especially when Kat, not just historically, but last night, will come in. the dumb play at the wrong time. Like he will foul out of a game like this. And where does that leave you if you're the Knicks? So I was talking to somebody over with the Knicks last night, who was just a little peed off about how things win. He said, you know what, man?

The Hawks actually remind me of us last year, a scrappy bunch, together bunch, a team that scratches and claws for everything. It's not this finesse sort of, you know, played the events when we feel like a kind of team. It's a team with just a tougher identity than the team that the Knicks are this year. And I want to, man. I can't believe OG Ananovi said that to you.

That's crazy. I just want to say, though, man. And I got to have a Mayor Cope, man. And shout to my guy, Isaiah producer Zay, because, you know, he was trying to put me on to this. But McKell Bridges, boy, not since. Robert Coventon, have I seen somebody skate on a defensive reputation like this, dude? Like, he's bad. He's freaking bad on defense, point blank.

I'm not saying, you know, he's like pretty good and we need them, the Knicks need them to be elite for them to be, you know, more passable on defense. No, he's not pretty good. He's not kind of good. He's freaking bad. And he earned a reputation in Phoenix, you know, while he was playing. with Booker and Chris Paul and those guys as being like a stalwart

defensive, you know, legitimate two-way kind of player. And he just is not that anymore. And I swear, I haven't seen this since Robert Coventon who had like that nice little Minnesota run and people were just, he was just Scotty Pivot for years afterwards.

Even after we would watch him get toast and possession after possession, like the McHale Bridges thing is killing me to watch right now, y'all. if I can defend our friend Rob Covington's honor a little bit. I think some of that was misunderstanding. Like Covington was never a shutdown on-ball defender. He was good in help.

He was a good team defender. And people heard he's a good defender and were like, oh, well, he should obviously be able to shut guys down. Why he can smoke every possession? Okay, yeah. Not really what his strengths were as an on-ball guy. That said, I'm watching Mikhail Bridges against the Raptors earlier this week. He is squared up and Grady Dick is leaving him in the freaking dust.

And I'm like, how did we get here? You know, like it's been spotty at stages of the season. I agree with you. We've gone from mediocre or passable to like how, how did a defender this good become this bad? I'm mystified by it. I'm actually a little bit more disappointed on the offensive end, though,

because the Knicks have thrived this season just because they've been overwhelming teams with offense. They have been number one with a bullet offensively and felt like they got gummed up a little bit with Brunson. Maybe it wasn't easy to take him out, but like it was simple to fail. out how to topple over the house of cards. I was ready for this to be the town's asance, but then like it almost felt like once Brunson was muted, it was incumbent on other people to

like figure things out. And so like it left this game thinking like, man, what they really need is the thing that like, I don't know how they get, which is another ball handler in order to activate these guys when Brunson can't do that. I guess Hart could do a little bit of it. I guess Miles McBride could do, a deuce McBride could do a little bit of that. That's the thing. It's just like you need those guys to add that dimension. Otherwise, where is it coming from? It's coming from more likely than now. Towns. And you see what happens.

He almost like spins out of control because he does so much. He like works himself into a froth where he's like, oh, it's so good. Towns is like just being physical and all this. And then he's like committing dumb fouls and like making dumb plays. It's just like that's not the answer. They have lots of problems, to be honest with you. They have this whack-a-mole thing going on on defense. The rem protection is still an issue.

I don't want to be too harsh on towns. because I do think he makes basically everyone's job easier on offense in particular. Like he is such an important pressure release for them and such an important rebounder for them, as we saw in this game. Like that's a way where teams like the Knicks can press the Hawks, right? If you're going to play all these kind of rangy tweener forwards on the perimeter, muscle those guys inside, push Click Capella out of the way. And I think the ease with which towns made not just Capella,

but Anyukakangu look really slow on the perimeter, just because he's such a dangerous shooter. Like he pulls those guys out so far. He can blow by them. He can make plays. He can make things happen. But when your whole offense becomes that, it doesn't leave you in a very good or healthy or sustainable place.

That is where the Knicks are having problems right now. I don't think many teams can really lock down on Brunson in the way that Daniels can. Frankly, in the way that overall the Hawks did. Brunson is a really hard defender not just to stick with on his first step, but to stay with all the pivoting, with all the moves, with all the fakes. And to a man, all of their defenders were up on the scouting report. Like they were, they were staying down. They were locked in.

They knew exactly where Jalen Brunson wanted to get on the floor. It felt like a playoff intensity defense. And the fact that the Hawks are capable of a playoff intensity defense is, is wonderful for where this team started. But if the Knicks want to go where I think they intended to go when they made some of these trades, we're talking about the Celtics. We're talking about the magic. Talking about, you know, even the heat when they're locked in.

Like, that is going to be there for them. And maybe they face the Hawks again. in like an early series in the playoffs. And so I don't know. I'm worried. I'm, yes, I would be worried too.

Also, like, like, yes, they probably do need more ball handling, right? Like, that's definitely a weakness,

the ball handling outside of Brunson. But my thing is like, Bridges and OG need to play like the guys who, A, got a $200 million deal, and B, got five, seven first round picks traded for him.

to bring them in. Like, play like those guys. You know, at a certain point, it can't be, oh, it has to come from the outside. Like, these guys are prominent pieces, you know, of the organization. And they need to play like it in big spots, which, you know, and I know a lot of people

like the poo-pooed a cup or whatever, but this was a big spot. Like a team, a young, thirsty team, feels like they're playing for something and was coming at you on your home court and you had an implosion in the freaking third quarter. You know,

got to be better than that. I think what I worry about with those guys is that just by the nature of how this team is built, and we've kind of been talking around this with Brunson in a lot of ways. They have a lot of players who can make you win more when you're already winning, right? Like when the offense is flowing, this has been one of OG and Nobie's best offensive seasons overall, but mostly by drafting off of the flow of when the offense is really working well. Who are the guys who get you out of the mud? When Jalen Brunson is overwhelmed with length, then it's going to Towns.

if Towns is a little spotty for a quarter or a half, which he has been prone to do throughout his career, now it's falling to Mikhail Bridges, now it's falling to O.G., now it's falling to Josh Hart and Deuce McBride. It just cascades really, really quickly from high-level offense that, granted, against some opponents looks completely unstoppable

to when you do start applying resistance. I don't know who's picking you up out of the dirt with the Knicks necessarily. I just thought it was going to be Bridges. I thought he was going to be the secondary playmaker who, when needed, would step up. He would be able to be the release valve when Brunson wasn't there to activate towns in a way that when he puts the ball on the deck could be a little bit messy.

And so I think it ultimately becomes a bridges discussion. If you're going to pay all those picks, I assume there would be a melding of Phoenix bridges and Brooklyn bridges. What we've gotten is mostly Phoenix bridges and not even the good Phoenix bridges. And so I think I think that's what's happened when you only have a certain amount of guys. Otherwise, it's a lot of campaign sidewinding three-pointers that you're just hoping to go in. see all of all of this is true but i do want to pump the break slightly on the nix skepticism because how many teams in the east can do this can guard them in this particular way or even have the personnel to do it like celtics sure as fuck can celtics absolutely i don't think i don't think

anyone in boston is like super worried about the nicks right now but a team like cleveland the cleveland are like the calves are a really good team they don't have somebody to just like throw on jalen brunson like this the magic the magic i agree coming back, baby. What are you talking about? Look, we've had enough self-complimenting on this podcast with Waz talking about his own commentary, warming his own heart. I was watching the play of my subject, warming my heart. Come on, Rob, get it right.

I apologize. I was watching the magic the other night in those cup games. I'm like, man, when I've had a bad week, like when I've just really been eaten poorly, start to look like more goga than Max Struz, you know? First of all, Go-Gad may be like one of the dunks of the season, so have some respect. Also, Jayless Thugs, another group chat favorite was just electric. Can fucking ball, man. That quarterfinal matchup against the bucks, man.

I love that dude. To me, he is the picture of everything that's right with the lead. This dude gives a damn, plays hard every single. He's a freaking maniac, and I love that about him. I think that's one of the cool things about the way the Cupfield has, has taken shape is you could look at a team like the magic and be like, man, they, the way they played, they deserved to advance. They just like didn't have enough healthy bodies. You could look at the Warriors, for example, and say like, they played well enough overall throughout that game. And

specifically in most of the second half, maybe the last couple of minutes excluded, fought hard enough and well enough to advance. But this is, this is very high level competition right now. How do you guys feel about the way that game ended? Are you in the Steve Kermin, we were like that foul on the floor in the loose? ball situation was ridiculous or do they make so many mistakes down the stretch to coming and missing the past obviously staff taking the early shot yeah like you're like they kind of deserve that it was a foul but but also get a shot up like who calls that though yeah yeah i'm of the general opinion that yes maybe the better decision is just like give houston the time out

rather than the free throws um that they were calling for and frankly had possession of the ball to be able to do but the warriors turning the ball over has been such a chronic problem like that Dram on Miscue was so painful. Like some of the ways they were rushing and granted, that rushing is coming from defensive pressure. That rushing is coming from the rockets locking in on these guys. But I don't think you get to complain like that if you can't even get shots at rim in a crunch time session this competitive.

Yeah, you know how I complain about the refs to me is small potatoes, man. To me, like, you're like a Houston team that you have. had squarely in your sights to be, to then be like, oh, the refs took it away from us. That's crap to me. I don't buy it. It's got to be something crazy egregious in a crazy big moment. This was like, I mean, it's a bang, bang kind of play. It wasn't some horrible miscall.

It was not. Yeah. I want to talk about the Warriors in the trade section here because it goes hand in hand, unfortunately. But I think Rob's right about some of the harassing premier defense from the Rockets. It was crazy watching guys like Steph relocate on a three-pointer. And then Easton or a men was just like doing that as quickly as them. Like the close-out ability on some of these perimeter offenders is insane.

And so I'm a little disappointed. We don't get to see Steph live in the cup setting in Vegas, which has been incredible. Little disappointed in there. Yeah. But I do. I love this Rockets team. That's the thing. And not just the Rockets.

We get Rockets Thunder, which is going to be ugly as hell. and I'm going to fucking love. We are going to be pigs and shit in a 67 to 69 game. And I really can't wait for it. These are not just two of the best and most siphling defenses in the league, but the most reliable as far as executing their stuff, knowing where to be, knowing how to help each other out. Like, I love watching these teams guard.

Yeah. The freaking Thunder have the most dominant defense since the 2003 spurs, which is like, what the f—that's crazy. Also, the last game that they played, I was texting you guys in the group chat just losing my mind. Because Dylan Brooks and all, like, they, they were treating the last OKC game as if it was like, do or die. These dudes play so freaking hard on a night-to-night basis. You know, Emead Doca has just been kind of like the hallmark of, you know, his best teams. It's like, these guys get into people and they fight.

And so, yeah, I'm really looking forward to the match. matchup in Vegas, even if I am disappointed that we won't get to see some Steph magic out of the T-Mobile Center. E-May's quick timeout whistle whenever a guy just like doesn't make a hard closeout. It's like it's insane to watch in real time in a game like that because like he was on it as soon as a guy just was like late on a contest and like, you see why they are playing on defense the way that they are. He's got the best like stern walking on to the.

the court for the timeout look he always looks pissed he does always look pissed i get it you know i just got to execute um so we have early previews here who do we like coming out of this ultimately okay c's been playing the best basketball like i you know um i love the houston matchup because defensively they just match up like really nice against um okay c with it with all of their perimeter sort of hyenas on the wings. But I just don't think they're going to have enough offense to make it over. And so, you know, just the difference between having Shea, who can just generate offense like nobody else right now, aside from Nicole Yolkich, of course.

But, like, yeah, I just think OKC is going to take this thing. They're playing just great ball, a lot of confidence. It's beautiful that they have heart and steamback, who, like, we've said it already, but he has immediately fit into the culture and the style that these guys want to play. He's also become one of the guys that's yelling at the home crowd to get even louder after they make big, like, it's just, he's been so seamless and awesome to watch. So yeah, give me OKC all day. The way OKC just trapped and rushed and pressured Luca and Kyrie in particular was so obscene.

Like that is such a hard thing to execute at that level while covering everything else. and crashing the pain. It's almost like they took it personal. You know, it seemed like a pretty important game to them. I also think this is going to be an important game to the Rockets, as you alluded to, Waz. Like, they take this matchup very seriously. They're taking this cup very seriously.

I think Houston's still going to win. Wow. Whoa. I think it's going to be, I think we're going to get Rockets bucks. And I think the Rockets are going to win. Let's go. I would go the opposite way. I think we're going to get Hawks Thunder.

And I'm going Hawks. Because Kaka, baby. We're taking flight. We're in the next. nest. But this is, this is like an opposite aliens versus predator situation, because whoever wins, we win.

You know? That's right. These are all fun teams to watch. These are all exhilarating matchups. I shuffle them however you like. I'm going to be thrilled to be there. Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points.

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All right. Why don't we flip now to trade season? So on Sunday, 85 players, according to Bobby Marks, are now that signed over the summer, are now eligible to be trading. This is officially ring the gong, caw, the caca. It is now trade season. We're already starting to see burbling across the league, the Jimmy Butler's, the Brandon Ingrams. We got shams in just a big old illustration on ESPN and his leather jacket for some reason. like so we're in prime hours prime season for some scuttle bud how have we not done some kind of bit

justin where you ring the bell stock exchange style on trade season beginning on december 15th so trump did it today and then i get to follow suit yeah and you you will also be the next time person of the year do i get to wear a leather jacket you can wear whatever you want i think you get to Look as cool as you want to when you ring that bell. You know I'm looking cool, baby. Yes, so this is the time of year where I think things start to pick up. And it seems like things might start or at least like the talks might start earlier than expected because we have teams like the Golden State Warriors who are in desperate need of a shakeup. Let's start with the Warriors specifically here.

We have down here what, four, five teams who are going to be the most intriguing as we kind of flip the page to trade season here. But I think we got to talk about the Warriors who very much look like they need Jimmy Butler or at the very least need to be out of the Jonathan Kaminga business. Well, for now they're promoting the Jonathan Kaminga business. He's a very important part of their team, as everyone there will tell you. Bill has been on this front center that this doesn't smell quite right. And look, I haven't done this myself, but if you're an enterprising Googler out there, you could probably do a search and find near identical quotes from Steve Kerr or in that case, Bob Myers, about like, like there's no reason that the Warriors need to trade D'Angelo Russell. He's a really good fit. There's no reason

why he couldn't be a part of the future of this team. This is part of the process. This is what teams do and specifically what the Warriors do. The more that they praise Jonathan Cumminga, who I want to be fair, has advanced significantly as a player in the last 18 months or so, but so clearly is not long for his membership with the Golden State Warriors. The more they push that the more skeptical I get.

And I just don't see how he's still on this team past the deadline, given everything that they need and how little they have to trade. Yeah, it was just weird, the timing of his minutes uptick, Dremont going out of his way to be like, no, like, this is what vets do you sacrifice for your young guys. Just the timing is just so conspicuous. And, you know, and let's face it, the need. They need a better player in that position. and then the guy that Jonathan Kaminga is today.

That's just an obvious thing that's happening right now. And Jimmy Butler, I think, you know, it's obvious that he would be a perfect fit. Like, you talk about high IQ hoopers in our game. Like Jimmy Butler is right at the very, you know, top one percentile of, you know, hoops IQ, right? And toughness and just the belief in, you know, like Butler is, As much as he's had these amazing playoff moments,

his inclination isn't ball domination and soak up possessions and doing that kind of stuff. Like he would fit in perfectly to what they want to do. And, you know, he would only, like, he would only be taking the most important threes, you know, the easiest threes possible. We know the guy hates to shoot a three. I think he would be a great fit.

And I do think it would make sense for Miami to pivot to a younger. guy and getting their, you know, heat culture and system and regiment with a guy who's been sort of lost in his career in Jonathan Caminga. I think that would be a great fit for Miami. Yeah, I think Butler would fit the mold of a Warriors player where it's like you think he's a good shooter, but he's not actually. Like him and Draymond will be Pisano that way. I think my question honestly is like, do the warriors have enough left over if they were to give up Cominga and it presumably would also involve Wiggins just to make the math work in order to be their best selves because

then you're working with a lot of the Lindy Waterses, the Gary Payton's, just to fill the void. On the one hand, they've won at times this season earlier in the season with that setup. On the other hand, they're not winning right now in that kind of basic setup. They've lost seven of their past nine. And I just don't know if like the Jenga fits where it's like, if you just add Butler to the mix and you get rid of Kaminga Wiggins and let's just say one or two other bench guys that are kind of negligible. is that enough to compete on the highest levels?

I'm still not sure at that point. I think it's enough to give themselves more of an honest shot, which is if you're the Warriors, what you're after. There is no move on the board that's going to solve everything. And frankly, like, so when you trade for Butler, I think the presumption would be that you basically have to play him at the four. Like, you probably need to play him and Draymond as you're a four or five, more or less on a full-time basis,

because I don't know that you can get away with playing those two and Trace Jackson-David, or those two and Kavanaugh, for example. So I would think it's some combination. of like Steph, clearly. Buddy probably needs to start for spacing reasons. Butler and Draymond, and then you can kind of mix and match with the last spot. I like

Peyton, but he also presents some of the same problems as far as a non-shooter. Like, you saw that in the Rockets game. Teams will just leave him and he has absolutely no capacity to hit open shots, which is tough. But those are the problems that are much more preferable to what you have now, which is like, how much do you have to lean

on pods? How much do you have to lean on Lindy Waters. Like how much are you reliant on these guys having the game of their lives at the right time to be competitive against the best teams in the West when you could be having that same argument about Jimmy Butler who's just so much more proven and so much more versatile in those situations.

Can I ask you about pods? Is it possible that Kerr hates him more than Kaminga? If he does, it's well earned. He actually makes as many bonehead decisions as Kaminga and it almost feels like for whatever reason, maybe

expects more from him, but like he's harder on him than anybody at this point. It's kind of crazy because last year, there were times where he was closing over guys like Clay Thompson and Kamenga and rightfully so. He was one of the only guys that could like dribble and make a shot at the end of games for the Warriors and to see this regression is kind of disheartening, to be honest. It's been nice to see him at least finally hit some threes lately. Like if he can do that. To the jump shot.

It was weird. He just came out of like Pajemski and not be able to. to shoot, that's crazy. He was way, way too cold for a player who, as you said, Justin, can make some like daring, risky, dare I say, Steph-like mistakes. Like, he does want to push the envelope a little bit too much in certain circumstances, but he also plays otherwise the way Kerr wants teams to play. And so, yeah, the fact that he is in the doghouse at times, it's well-founded.

So Pachemski is a candidate for, I learned it from you, Dad. Aren't we all, really? The flip side of this, I think, is equally as interesting because I think for the heat, just to get back anything from Butler who could walk in free agency next summer, I think would be a win because clearly it seems like they're ready to turn the page. They made a big show of giving at a bio the extension over the offseason, not giving it to Jimmy. And so, like, they're entering a new phase. I'm wondering, though, if comminga can be enough of a guy that you want him to be. On the one hand, I like the second draft, like lottery poll of bringing him into your system and the heat have had a lot of success, getting guys to just work their ass off and finding a place for them.

I believe in Spoe, probably more than anyone in the league at this point, to make use of a supremely athletic, but kind of like it doesn't really get it between the ear sort of guy. On the other hand, you're going to have to pay him almost immediately. If you trade for him, you're presuming or you're taking on the burden of having to pay him this offseason when he'll be a restricted free agent. And I don't know, that's pretty dicey. On the one hand, Rob, is it, though? Well, I think Josh Giddy's a priming is going to look at this where it's like,

I think everyone assumed that he would just get paid immediately. The Bulls have been kind of in wait and C mode. So could they do that with Cominga? I kind of like that. Nobody's going to be thirsty to send an offer sheet to Jonathan Caming. I don't care how prominent his agent is. There's just not a bunch of teams with cab space floating around that could credibly be like, Yeah, bringing Jonathan Kamenga is going to make a big difference over here.

It's going to really help our situation and offer him like four years 160 or something crazy like that. It ain't happening. It ain't going to happen. They could stiff this guy in restrictive free agency if they really wanted to. And yet you could end up with a version of the Jimmy Butler trade market where he is the most appealing young player being offered. Because the teams that want Jimmy are teams that are trying to content, the amount of like actually good. foundational level young talent on those teams is slim to none. Hey man, Ryan Dunn and what's his name?

And Bradville, that doesn't get your goose going. You know what? Maybe a plummetly in there. So on top. Let's talk about the Suns thing. I'm not even going to talk about the reporting machinations that led to the Suns connection. I just don't even want to go into it.

It's very, very difficult to get Jimmy Butler to the Suns. there's really only one fundamental construction that works, and it's Brad Beale plus like a minimum guy in some way. I'm sorry. You don't think that he should be interested in Brad Bill, who's 55 million bucks never plays, and even when he does, is average to mediocre? Well, I'm glad you raise this point, wise,

because I have a frankly ridiculous trade idea that I would like to propose to the two of you. The sons get Jimmy Butler. Great. The Pistons get Brad Beal and Nicola Jovich. The heat get Asar Thompson, Tobias Harris, Isaiah Stewart, and five second round picks. Does this move you in the slightest? Why are the pistons getting Bradley Beal?

I think if you're the offense, spacing, like another reliable, at least semi-reliable creator to put next to Kate, granted, somehow an even bigger injury risk. But they're a team that is struggling and fighting to be taken more seriously, and a lot of that starts with their spacing. And Brad Beale, you want to be taken seriously? You had Beal to the list. I'm just saying, like, think about who the desperate teams are, right? Think about who would be eager to be the third team in a deal like this, because I agree with you, the idea of the heat, banking on Brad Beale to be their big Jimmy Butler return does not make sense to me. And so who would be in the Brad Beal market, if not them? I think, I think Beal has negative value.

I think he has big time negative value at this point. And so like if I'm the Pistons, I'll take Beal and I'll take the risk on him because I have cap space and Lord knows no one's coming to Detroit to take it. But you got to give me something else. Like I actually want the best prospect in the deal. Like if someone had a SAR, I would want a SAR back. Yeah. I'm not giving them up for that. That might be fair.

And I think that might be where it gets a little bit tricky. But overall, like I think the impetus is you're a team that hasn't been in the playoffs. for five years and no one takes you seriously and you have to overpay to get Tobias in the door in the first place. It's Blake Griffin 2.0. Right, a little bit like let's let's take a roll of the dice at being a little bit more legitimate

in an east that frankly has a wide open middle, if nothing else. Yeah. It's interesting. I mean, I do think we're talking around what you should expect if you're a heat fan for Jimmy like basically having to look at someone else who's been

disappointing differently, right? And if anything, like I would rather a Kaminga and taking a chance on him than even like a draft pick because he fits the timeline of Atabio who I'm trying to build things around. I guess the only concern is like if I'm building my future around Adabio, Kaminga, and potentially Khalil where is that a lot of big men who can't really shoot? Like how do I play those guys together? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I got 25 to 30 mil for you per year, four years, lock you up. or five years actually, lock you up,

take it or leave it or get worked in restricted free agency, be a part of heat culture, watch your freaking stock and reputation go out of the roof, all of that. We eventually use you as a trade chip to trade for our next superstar. That's what they're offering, and I think, like, Jimmy's got, like, he's a free agent at the end of the year.

There's no leverage here with this. And he also hasn't been playing. playing his best ball. Like what could they realistically expect to get out of Jimmy Butler, who's got the injury history, isn't playing his best ball, has one year left on his deal. You know, like, even the Warriors, they could be like, look, man, we didn't bring you back this all season.

Sorry, but they could get out of it if they wanted to. Yeah, I assume that if he's being traded, he probably wants the extension. That might be part of his motivation. But I think you're right. I think if the Warriors aren't giving up draft picks, like actually getting off Kamenga might be killing two birds with one stuff. I think the bigger question was, is have you ever considered being a player agent?

Because you're doing a pretty good job of it right now. No, no, no, never crossed my mind, man. Got the connections. I'm just, listen, man. You want to be Rob's agent? I would love that. I'm happy in my capacity here, just being a straight shooter calling it out how I see it on the group chat podcast. That's all.

Okay. Well, you have the power in the room, that's for sure. You know, you can hold the attention. You can direct the talks. You can steer everything as you do this podcast. I think it could work. So the teams that are talked about with Jimmy, Mavs, Rockets, Warriors, Sons, who we talked about, I don't really see it for the other ones.

Rockets too soon. Mavs, I think, like, any setup would be getting rid of, like, a PJ Washington, as we just saw in the cup game, like, they need that guy. He's probably one of their most important players. And so I don't see anything. The Warriors make almost too much sense on paper unless they find a, another option, including another old guy who's looking to join the expendables that we're forming in Golden State for whatever reason to make one last run with Steph. I think it's Steph

multiplication LeBron time. What do you think about that as an option? In fact, like, do you wait on Jimmy to make sure that LeBron doesn't want to come? Like, is LeBron clear cut the number one guy on your board? LeBron is definitely a much better option than Jimmy for the Warriors. I think just because he is a natural four, a way more natural four than that. I just think, I mean, Jimmy's a pretty good four too.

And one thing we haven't mentioned is that the heat have actually been really good lately with Jimmy at the four. They kind of shook up their starters, maybe 10 games ago or so, and have been kind of awesome with that group with Jimmy at the four. But he doesn't have the respect as a shooter. He's not making the kind of perimeter playmaking as far as orchestration. Like the idea of an offense that has both LeBron,

and Draymond as Triggerman with Steph and Buddy Heald running around. It's very appealing. The problem is LeBron's not moving to Oakland or San Francisco or whatever or San Jose or whatever. He could commute it.

He was not moving to Sunnyvale. We were just talking to driving car from Sacramento. Yeah. We were just talking to our producer, Ben Cruz, who did the L.A. to Bay Area commute several times a week for a while.

Who's to say LeBron couldn't do it to? Southwest, you know, it's a good route. The Brons not doing that. And the Lakers aren't interested in turning into some rebuild, whatever, outfit. Like, they want to be relevant. Even if it's not at the very top of the league, they're really invested in being relevant. I just, I don't see the desire from either side. Is Brony James part of the deal, too?

Sure. I'm sure the Lakers like the idea of. nepotism. I know that much. The goddamn Roy brothers over there. I'm sure they enjoy the concept of a son just ride completely and unjustifiably riding the coattails of his father. I'm sure they think that's a good idea. So maybe, maybe that the brawny part works. Guys. Are we sure that LeBron wouldn't be interested? Because there's this weird thing burbling right now where he's like, he's not showing up at their practice. ahead of the game and it's like, oh, it's soreness, but it's also like a personal absence.

He's getting treatment, y'all. He's taking some time. Was the quote, turkey? Is this a hair thing? I mean, he should have been with the turkey as far as I'm concerned. He's 10 years too late on turkey. Have I told you guys how like the turkey stuff has like worked his way into my algorithm because we keep talking about it so much? Like, I just keep getting served guys going to turkey. I don't mind it. I actually do watch a lot of haircut videos on Instagram. I don't know if we've talked about that. I think we simply must now. Walk us through.

What do you see? Like guys getting like fades. Like I love that shit. That's like actually probably my number one content that I've consumed this year for doing a Instagram wrapped here. This is like your version of like watching like pimple popping videos or like deep like rug deep cleaning videos. Or like the thing where the like the machine is like pressing down on an object and

and you slowly watch it like bursts or whatever. Big smashes. Yeah. You know my version of this is how up are you guys on farrier content? Farrier. I don't know what it is, but I like it. These are the guys who like clean out horseshoes and re-shoes. I see so.

I don't know. I don't know how I got on this algorithmic train, but I'm not mad about it. And I would like it to continue to populate my feet. So my version of this is when dudes are refurbishing cast iron scale. Oh, yeah. Like they find something from like 1925 or whatever and they get the rust off and they put it in this like crazy bath. And then they it's season it right up. Yeah, it's really satisfying shit.

Wonderful. Shirey brand is Justin Ferrier and just like work with horse shoes. I mean, what's your what's your level of like comfort and confidence in like standing behind a horse that could knock you out with a kick is the question. zero. I'm absolutely terrified of it. As long as you could dress the part and look the part, I think you could pull it off. I'd wear some chaps. Look in that. Farrier, multiplication sign barrier. We can get it going.

Yeah, but I don't know. There's like a weird thing kind of happening with LeBron. There's like a malaise. We talked about it on the last pod. Just like he seems like in a weird headspace right now. Yeah. I think honestly, I think that was the time. That would be sick. Well, some of the weird thing might be the Lakers are three and seven in their last 10. four of those losses have been complete blowouts. Two of them have been absolutely heartbreaking.

And LeBron also missed his first game of the season, as we talked about previously, finally getting some rest to kind of nurse these injuries. Something's got to give with this team. And as we go down the rabbit hole of, oh, would he consider Golden State? Would he consider this option or that? I even, I'm at the point with the Lakers and at the point with the LeBron Minutes where this is a little bit blasphemous in talking about one of the greatest players ever live, but like, how certain are we that Cuminga and Wiggins and a couple of decent

role players in LeBronstedt on the Lakers would not make them a better night-to-night team? How sure are we of that? Is Austin Reeves healthy? Maybe. Yeah, that's a big question mark for them. He definitely be taking over permanent, like, playmaking on ball. Like, he'd basically be like old Trey Young on that team. Well, you got, you got D-Loh.

The true star of the Lakers. Oh, you got Dilo too. Yeah, I guess Dilo, you know, ringing in the rear in the Dejante Murray role, I guess. Yeah, I don't, it's hard to see that. And it's hard to see, like, again, like, like the JJ thing is a LeBron thing. Yeah. You know, like breaking, breaking up the JJ and LeBron thing, getting up on this, this early. Come on, man.

It's too early to give up on that. Yeah, I think at that point you're thinking. full-scale rebuilds. You're talking about getting rid of AD, trying to trade him somewhere else, and just kind of start from scratch. But I guess you're really kind of at the behest of LeBron. If he wants something, you're not going to say no. And in fact, that was the reporting around that Leacup was having with the Lakers around last year's trade deadline. It was basically like, if LeBron wanted it, we would let it happen. But he kind of didn't. And so we just didn't pursue it. And so, if he says so, he will. I think Waz is right. I think I would be surprised at this point because

he has so many roots in L.A. But the Olympics was incredible. And to see that play out in a regular season would also be incredible. The Lakers would print fucking money. They would be in a Scrooge McDuck. Can you imagine? Just pouring into that. But yeah, no, something's going on there.

But I guess we'll see when it ends up happening. Should we talk about the Pelicans? Yeah. Yeah, we should. Because they're obviously going to be very much in the mix here. I love this line from Shams's inside pass in which he is wearing a leather jacket in the art, just a reminder that that actually happened in real life. This is a quote. Griffin, referring to David Griffin, has taken a sustainable approach to roster

building without going into the tax. M-Dash, New Orleans has never been a tax-paying team. M-Dash. They're cheap, y'all. That's why they don't pay the tax. This isn't some grand theory of like trying to build sustainably and just having younger? guys coming in out. Even like the reporting is like, oh, they wanted to pay Ingram just slightly above what he was making this season.

It's like, no shit, because if they paid him more, they would have to pay the tax. It's just like, we all know it. It's just like, it's weird how people aren't saying, like, this is the deal with New Orleans. Yeah, their cheap skates to their detriment. And yeah, again, I don't think not paying the tax is why. this team is where it is. No. But I think the dedication to the tax is indicative of priorities to me.

And that's what their main, that ownership group's main priority is, keeping cost low. It's not putting the best product possible, fostering an environment that would encourage the best possible basketball situation. not number one. Number one is cost cutting, keeping as cheap and lean as possible, making money, which, whatever, this is America. As the dude, the dude Frenche from the departures said, this is America, you're a douchebag if you don't make any money. So we get that as a principal, but, you know, as a basketball view in public, it's freaking sad. It's sad to watch what's happening in New Orleans right now. Well, it's especially sad because this is a team that needs a dramatic

foundational level overhaul of basically everything that they do and everyone who is on this roster. And I just have no faith that that's actually going to happen anytime soon. You can see them based on what they've done historically, kicking the can down the road with Zion, kicking the can

down the road with Brandon Ingram, holding on to DeJonte Murray because he's so new there. All of this ties together, though, because here's the reality. As we said, this is a team that does prioritize its financial present and future that refuses to pay the tax that has as its concerns on the financial bottom line,

they've made the playoffs twice in the last six seasons, both times as an eight seat. They have had one 50 win season in 2008. That's their most recent 50 win season. I think attendance is a problem for New Orleans, even when they're good. And if we want to talk about the way teams rebuild, like one of the big inefficiencies for teams that are in bigger markets

or more attractive markets is they like attract interest and sell enough tickets even when they're bad. and the Pelicans are absolutely not one of those teams. This is a franchise for whom sucking comes at a very significant cost. And if you do care about money and you do care about if your ownership, like prioritizing this over that, prioritizing the bottom line over winning, prioritizing not spending over what it would take to actually win,

that's always going to drive. Not just your interest in competing at a championship or playoff level, but what happens when you need to bottom out to? And it's sad because I think that fan base can, support a team. Like, this isn't the case where, like, football is so big in the South, like, people just aren't interested. I think by and large, ever since I've been there until now, the thing that I've heard repeatedly is if there's something to care about, people will care about. I tell the story all the time. I was walking in the French quarter to get to the arena for

All-Star weekend. I was talking to a fellow reporter, and I was telling, like, oh, people don't care, like they don't show up to games. Someone then a native turned around and shot back at me, like, oh, we care. We love it here. I was like, lady, I go to literally every game. I do not see you there. And she's like, yeah, whatever. But the whole point is like, people are ready to fight for their teams.

They fucking love the localized teams. But there's just like, not the product there in order to get behind. So because this lady yelled at you, the pelicans are going to, fans are going to show up for their team. Pride on Bourbon Street. What can I say? I certainly is. I just love the idea of

Justin snapping at this random New Orleans saying like, listen, woman, I'm actually there every day. I had to wear actually here. What can I say?

It's literally the only thing I had going for me at that time of my life is that I had been to a lot of New Orleans Pelicans games. It's just, I do think there's something. And look, the team when they were fun and spunky, when they made that playoff run,

where they pushed the Sons in that first round series, like Herb Jones was a thing, like Trey Murphy was fun. Like they're wearing the cash money shirts with their faces on it. Like there was something going there. It's just like they tend to just lose sight of that. I think part of it's the injuries. But part of it's just like there is a fatalism that creeps in because they won't go past

a certain point with their money. I think that's when you hit your head on a ceiling repeatedly. This is when things start to happen. And it's like Brandon Ingram's a perfectly fine player that you could just get by with. The fact that they're holding a line isn't because of his play style. If anything, the reporting suggests that, like they would have brought them back at a cost, but they just,

they won't go past a certain point. It almost like creates this like, this hard cap on who you can even be as a team. And as a player, as a human, you start to wonder like, oh, why am I going to bust my ass?

Yeah, exactly. And so it's tough. Like, I think there are actual like, like things you could gripe about with Ingram. But if anything, it seems like what's coming to bear

over the past couple weeks, the past couple months with his situation, it has more to do with this ephemeral stuff, with just like how the team even operates on a core-based foundational level. I just think you need one of those two things to work. Like we may be over-indexing on the ownership spending part of this conversation. You either need a team that is healthy enough to establish and maintain real momentum, capitalizing on the kinds of runs you're talking about, Justin,

like where things are good and you're actually rolling into the next season and you're building habits and you're building continuity. And Zion and Ingram are learning how to play together and learning with these new guards who are supplementary. what they bring to the table, or you need the structure as a team and the spending as a team to buy your way out of problems. And they don't have either of those things. I mean, and is it argument to be made like the difference between the Pelicans and Denver and OKC is the difference between Zion, Shea Gilgis Alexander, and Nicola Yolkich, meaning healthy superstars,

who always play, who are consistent, who allow for you to have a freaking winner every year, and a freaking superstar, a franchise cornerstone, who straight up is the antithesis of reliability in every single way possible. From his professionalism to his availability to all of it, even sometimes when he is playing, his inconsistencies, He's like, that might be what it boils down to your best player,

your would be all-MBA candidate, all-star candidate, MVP candidate does not play, seems to be unprofessional, and therefore your franchise is held hostage by that fact. I actually would like the Yokic comp there because it's a little different from what you think of as far as like the young stars who would be peers of Zions. But when you think about Yokic when he came into the league, he just kind of came in with a lot of unhealthy habits.

as far as how to be a professional athlete. I think the same could be true of Zion. The problem with Zion isn't just that he's like physically injury prone. It's that he has put his body in a position that accentuates that and jeopardizes that. It's like when you have to convince a guy to have professional habits to take, you know, his health and body seriously, not just in order to be on the court, but to be the best version of a player that he can be to start with, then you're also rolling the dice again and again with whether he can stay healthy.

It's just like there are too many variables with him all the time in a way that, yes, Yokic, I think, has had great injury luck in his career. It's also put himself in a position to have good injury luck. Yeah, I think this is ultimately a Zion conversation because Ingram doesn't seem long for the world in New Orleans, either at the trade deadline, they'll get rid of them or he will probably walk on his own in the off season. And the reason I said OKC is because they're cheap as hell. Denver, OKC, they're cheap too.

Like, you can be good and be cheap, you know? Yeah. But I think that's the way to get around that. that. You build a system where you kind of, you are, you create a feeder system, essentially. It's more of like a cultural thing that overcomes your lack of ability to import talent for your free agents and whatnot. You're developing it in-house. The Pelicans have done pretty well in that regard, but they just haven't gotten the stars in there. And so I wonder if ultimately they need to turn the page on the one star that they have. I think it's ultimately, again, comes back to ownership thing because I think

if you keep things the way they are, same front office, same everything, it'd be tough to turn the page on Zion. He's just too goddamn talented. And you can convince yourself, especially if you drafted him and you've built your worldview around him, that we just need him healthy. We have the guys around him. We'll hit the ground running next year. But I think if new blood came in there, if you'd turn the page, then you'd have license to get rid of him to start new, to build a culture like you have an okayc and do something different. But as it stands right now, I think they're tied to them. I think they should seriously start looking at Zion trades,

but I don't know how Griffin, whose job is probably tied to Zion success for good or bad, would ever do that. It's not an enviable position to be in, to have to look at a player as talented as Zion and make those decisions. I just don't know. They could trade Zion for anything of note. Maybe not.

His trade value has only gotten worse to play. Since two years ago when like, you know, that reporting came out like, yeah, they were looking to move this guy. And it was true. They were. He was ice cold on the market. They could have to Kew Henderson right now. I think my thing with the Pelicans is not they have to trade Zion or they have to trade this guy or that guy. It's just when you look at this roster if you're running the Pelicans, there should be no part of it that you should be preciously holding on to.

And I say that like we love Trey Murphy. We love Herb Jones. I think Eve Missy is like a good prospect if you are going to rebuild to have, you know, as part of the system. But if push came to shove and any move helps you reset, whether it's trading Zion or not, I think you need to pursue it. It doesn't necessarily mean any one guy has to go out the door, but you need to be open to pretty dramatic reimaginings of what this can look like. Yeah. A team in that process right now, the Portland Trailblazers, a team I think we all expect to be maybe something of a clearinghouse, something of a hub, you know, play. at the elbow for a lot of these teams.

Are they? The Portland Trailblazers? How many guys do you think veteran competitive teams are really like clamoring four on this roster? I have three down here that they could be interested in four who are technically on the market. Okay. Who are you thinking? Jeremy Grant, Anthony Simons, Robert Williams, and DeAndreateen would be the fourth. Yeah, look, if Dominaden is the answer, I'd,

I don't want to know the question. I don't want to participate in it. Yeah, he would, he would very clearly be the fourth. Would dominating help the Knicks right now as a five men? No. No, he would not. It's not a good defensive place.

It's not what they need. And also, also just like impossible given their needs and their salary particular. His salary is so just prohibitive, man. Like, why do that? Maybe the Pacers are like, yo, like, he was supposed to be a Hoosier all along and it's going to work when he gets to his home base. Yeah, they do need a backup.

I do think the contracts are going to come into play here, though, because I think these are all helpful players in their own right. But if you're training for Jeremy Grant, he probably has to be one of your, like, top three earners at that point. And is he really going to give you top three earner potential? I think the Lakers are, for instance, a really interesting fit for him, especially if they want to add a little bit more size without sacrificing some of the offensive stuff that they have. It's just he makes a lot of money.

So you're kind of committing to him being one of your guys going forward. And I just don't know if he'll give you that. I mean, we can talk about some of the other guys, but I think Grant is probably the most helpful, but probably the most, the least likely of the three, him grant, or excuse me, Grant, Simons, Rob Williams to be moved because of the contract. Yeah, the contract is tough. Also, the fact that it's just kind of a rough time for him to have basically his worst shooting season in four or five years. if he was the guy, which he was until recently, like an elite spot-up option at Forward,

that's a different conversation. This year's been a little spotier. He's another one of these players who historically has been a pretty high-level defender, but I don't know if he has that in him on like an every-night stopping basis anymore. I'm not sounding the alarm in the way we are about McKeel Bridges, but I'm not like heartened by his night-to-night defensive effort. Granted, it's for the Trailblazers, and that might change if you were applying on a different team. all of which is to say, if you are trading for Jeremy Grant, who is on a massive contract,

you are basically doing it on spec, or at least on the idea that he can be some version of the player in Amalgam that he has been at various points in his career previously. That's a tough sell for that much money and probably a lot, it seems like, just based on the fact that the Blazers still have him on their roster. I think the bucks should definitely try to do it. Get Middleton the hell up out of there. He's old and creaky. only has one year left on his deal after this one.

Absolutely not. I would absolutely be looking to turn Middleton into more athletic, youthful, reliable in terms of availability players, for sure. Chris Middleton gets back on the floor. He assists Janus like six times a game. And you're like, get this guy out of here. Get him out of here. He so clearly has the best sense of how to set Janus up of anyone on that team.

And I think his creation on offense is going to be pretty important overall. But I take your point about the athleticism, right? Like the Bucks are a team that need that. There are veteran teams that need that burst. And Grant definitely still has that. The tradeoffs, as we've talked about on many pods this year, are like, he's a terrible rebounder if you want to play him at the four. He's maybe not a full-time defender on the wing.

And all this stuff about his shooting. It's a tough combination that I think. So you'd rather have Chris Middleton. than Jeremy Grant. For sure. If I'm the bucks, yes. Dude is toast. I'm like, no, no.

He is cooked. Maybe I'm wrong about his actual like availability and he's just going to come back and he's going to look semi-mobile and all of that, but he just looks like a shell of himself. He used to be a good defensive player. He wasn't some lockdown or whatever, but he was good on defense.

He was nobody's identity. of a target. And I don't know that you can say that anymore, man, at all. Honestly, fair. Like, as far as overall, like, stout, non-targetable two-way play, Jeremy Grant is that. He's going to be underwhelming in some ways. He's going to be a little bit inconsistent,

given how perimeter-oriented his game is, especially now. But overall, like, he is going to be fairly reliable in the way that we're talking about. Teams aren't going to pick on him. Teams aren't probably going to leave him wide open, which is how I ended up, like, trying to get him to the Rockets in some former fashion. I think when you watch Houston play, there are a lot of times where you see them wheel and deal perfectly, right? They draw two, they dish to Shangoon in the middle.

He's flashing out to wide open shooters on the perimeter, and they just can't hit at a reliable enough level right now. What happens if you replace one of those guys with Jeremy Grant? What happens if you're betting on the shooting coming back and him being one of these guys who can just can open threes, in addition to giving you something defensively, in addition to being a combo three four defender. I wonder if he might be an option there.

I was trying to figure out like you could do Dylan Brooks and some second round picks potentially. Not what's the identity of the team. Is he the identity of the team? Amari just supplanting the identity of another team? That's crazy. Could be a thing. Or if you prefer,

you could do like if, for example, Portland was super high on like Cam Whitmore or some of the lesser prospects on Houston's roster. Maybe that maybe you, would value Cam Whitmore as like a low first round pick or something like that if you're the Blazers. See, I like it from Portland's perspective if you can supplant Jabari Smith with adult Jabari Smith. That's kind of what I'm thinking. Young Jabari Smith to Portland, but Gerrari Smith probably has a higher trade trade. You cannot trade Jabari Smith for Jeremy Grant. But I think if you're,

if you're Houston, you could start Jeremy Grant, bring Jabari off the bench. And you could have a lineup that's more like Van Vleet, Jalen Green, start a men Thompson or Atari Easton at the three with Jeremy Grant and Shanko. And like, that's a thing I think you could do. Yeah, I think, but from Portland's perspective, if you're not giving up any sort of the intriguing assets, any of the young players who are actually playing for that team, I think it gets a little less interesting. But this is why he's still a blazer. Like, they've been looking for firsts for Jeremy Grant for a long time. And the market just is not there to support it. Simon's another guy. I have a tough time making sense of because it's funny, I bring them up to people and they're like,

as a six man, you mean? And I'm like, well, no, I think you probably be a little bit more of a creator than that. But like, I think that is the vortex he's found himself in because he hasn't had a good season, much like Grant isn't shooting the ball particularly well. He'll have his moments. Like, when he gets it going, man, he looks like he can't miss a shot. And so that is valuable to certain teams. But like, we've talked about the magic possibility. At this point, they have they have Simons at home with Jalen Suggs playing the way that he is, or at least the way he played in the cup game. But I just can't see a clear fit outside of maybe the Lakers if you want to add more offense of like just getting a guy who wasn't going to help you defensively.

Do they want to be ranked 50th in the league on defense? It's only going to take two more spots. You know, you might as well just punt it all together. But that's the thing. It's like if I'm trading for him, like an adult team with title aspirations. It has to be a team that has a crazy defensive infrastructure. already. And maybe he's a rocket

candidate, man. That is a great defensive infrastructure already and not like even teetering on the defensive brink because you will fall off a cliff the second you start giving my guy admittedly

Anthony Simon's heavy minutes on like a middling, like an 18th rank defense. Yeah, you're going to find yourself 25th soon thereafter. Yeah. I found me. myself trying to entertain a team like the clippers for that reason but there's no way in which you put simons on the clippers without sacrificing the defense that makes him viable in the first place

it's just not a good fit with like hard and a norm and all those guys already there and like how important chris dunn is to that team for example yeah so they have a lot of guys they just don't know where to fit him that's why you hear rumblings about like dwap reef being the most tradable guy if only because he makes the minimum and teams can trade for a minimum contract so if we get to the trade deadline and DWAP wreath is the biggest name moved. We're going to do an entire podcast about Dwap Reith. I'm just like staking a claim right now. 40 minutes on Dwap.

Let's do it. Apparently last year someone was selling Christmas wreaths with Dwop's face on it. Dwap wreaths? Reiths. It's a little John Ham's John Hamm to me, but what can you do? Are there any other teams you guys want to talk about? Any players, any things? I have like a wild card spot if anyone wants to dig into anything else.

I mean, mine is definitely the Nets. You need to stop dicking around and figure out how to tank for real because they're trying to get a really good young player. And this team, while scrappy and fun, how scrappy they are and how often they play spoiler on given nights, I just think between Camp Johnson, Boyon, Doreen, Finney Smith, Dennis Schroeder, those are all guys that could help real NBA teams.

And, you know, the Nets could get some decent goodies. in an exchange for those guys, maybe even bring in some more younger guys, unproven guys to try to, you know, make the roster make more sense for what they're ultimately, we know what they're trying to achieve this year. Like the Utah Jazz of the past two seasons, they just have too many actually good NBA players to do it with any acceleration. And so that's what the Nets just kind of came immediately to mind as a team that should be shedding, you know, real good NBA players.

Yeah, they've been more competitive than we expected, certainly, and I think a good story overall. But at some point, you have to look around and acknowledge that the fact that the East is terrible does not make your team good. Like, there's a clear point of demarcation and the Nets are below it. I am a defender of teams that are like in the middle ground generally if you have the structure and the pillars to support it and to continue building. And the Nets clearly don't have that. To the point was that I don't think it's just the guys you mentioned, but like if there's a market for Nick Clackston. You think Nick Claxton should be out of there too? I don't think anyone needs to, like, again, distinctly needs to be out of there.

But it's like if the Hornets come calling for Nick Claxton, I think you take that call. I think you have that conversation. If people are interested in Cam Thomas, I think you have that conversation. Like, I don't want to be the person giving Cam Thomas his next deal per se. And let's put all the Warriors conversations aside that we had earlier about Jimmy and LeBron, say like, they end up doing something that's a little smaller scale. I think Cam Thomas could make sense for the Warriors as like a little bit of a, go-to option to relieve Steph. He could make sense for a team like the Clippers.

He could make sense for some good playoff teams more than he makes sense as, oh, this is a foundational score for a clear rebuild. I think Schroeder is just too good. They need him out of there because he's winning them too many games. And like we talk about the Pistons needing like maybe like a veteran help, someone who could just like steady the ship, play consistent minutes, score for them a little bit. I think he would be a good fit there. Just like get an adult in the room.

Also, unlike many of the players we've talked about today, on an exceedingly reasonable contract. 13 mil. Like that's a deal that you can get. You can get the Lakers on the phone. You can get the Sixers on the phone. Like you can start making some things happen with teams that don't have a lot to work with

in terms of salary. So I think Dennis Schrooter makes sense to be moved for all sorts of reasons. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? I'm sure we'll have many of burbles of Scuttlebut to dive into over the next couple of weeks.

I will see you guys next time in lovely Las Vegas. where hopefully the sun is shining because I haven't seen the sun in maybe two to three years. Remember, take a giveaway, screenshot your subscription to the Ringer MBA YouTube page. Send it to our email, Ringer GroupShat at eMail.com. Name a guy. Best guy wins. It's like a Jean-Claude Van Damme movie. Best guy wins.

Oh, yeah. Do you want to throw out a guy? Just like, who would you put? Hmm. Let's see. Is Jabari? Walker a guy? Absolutely a guy. Who's your guy? I mean,

I was going like historical. I was thinking like Antoine Rigido maybe like I, you know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to win these fucking tickets. Kenny Anderson? Is that too popular of a guy? I think that's too basic. I think Kenny Anderson's too basic. I'm not going to get these tickets then. I don't know. I have a press seat.

Was you got any guys? Jerry and Grant. As you guys know, I'm not a guy guy. You're a guy guy. Is it, is it Jerry and Grant? No, Jerry and Grant is somebody that's, fix him like he's an NBA player I would never forget because of how on Twitter I was at the time completely would talk about this dude no yeah Lou Amundsen the core three yeah um but yeah do all those things that we've said now seven times we'll get you the tickets uh but we'll talk

to you again in Vegas thank you to Isaiah Blakely and production thank you to Ben Cruz we'll talk to you this weekend must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Helpsheel.com. Call 1-88-88-8-8-8-8-8-9-7-7-7 or visit ccpgg.org or visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org or 800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts

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