The Ringer NBA Show - The Most Intriguing Teams at the Deadline, Plus All-Star Reserves Debates | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 2, 2022

Verrier, Rob, and Wos start by discussing a handful of teams that could be looking to make trades before the deadline (1:34). Then they debate who the All-Star reserves should be for each conference (48:03). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, the host of the podcast, Plain English. We tackle technology, politics, culture, history, everything that's happening in the world, and why it matters. New episodes of Plain English drop every Tuesday and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Group Chat, the number one MBA podcast on the Ringer NBA feed. On a Wednesday, I am Justin Verrier, joining me as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Wise. gentlemen, I am in a good mood today. Rob, how are you feeling? Why are you in a good mood?

I switched to espresso tonics, and boy, I am flying right now. I thought it had something to do with the content, but no, it's just your daily caffeine intake. No, if anything, this is old hat. I was thinking about this actually the other day. This is my 13th trade deadline, I believe. Oof. Wow. That's a sobering fact.

Rob, how many for you? It's got to be about the same. But I don't like to think about it in terms of those numbers because it's depressing. So let's just keep it moving. Feels like the first time, baby. Okay. So we're going to get to some All-Star Reserve debates, which we tabled after last week's podcast in the back half of this episode.

But first, the trade deadline, my friends, is about a week away, a week and like half a day away right now. And we are going to go through the most intriguing teams as we veer toward my 13th NBA trade deadline. I hope someone got me a kick. Let's start with the team that's really in the news these days, surprisingly, I think, but maybe not considering the recent results. The Washington Wizards, the trade rumors are burbling as we veer toward the deadline, mostly because it seems like the Wizards are very much aware that they need help. They are 23 and 27. They have now lost six straight after yesterday's Spunky game against the Bucks, but they ended up losing that one down

the stretch. Demona Sabona, some other guys have been in the mix there. Here's my question was, I want to go bigger picture here because I'm a little curious, like, where the team is going from here. Would you rather bring in us a sub bonus or someone to supplement Beal in order to make this work? Are we at the point now with the Wizards, considering how things have gone the past two years, really, where you need to start asking yourself at Beal should be the franchise player here. Yeah, I'm asking myself, what's the proof that Bradley Bill is the kind of Damian Lillard, Joellen Bede, meaning just having them on the team, no matter how injured or disgruntled or lackluster my roster might be, I'm viable, I'm fighting for the playoffs. I'm one of those

teams. Bradley Bill has never proven himself to be that. And I look at the Simmons thing as clearly they're desperate to get off of him, right, in Philadelphia. Obviously, he doesn't want to be there. And I think you can get stuff on top of Simmons as far as picks and maybe some other young valuable assets. To me, I'd be looking to preemptively move Bill, right? Like, I don't understand what's the... Since they got rid of John Wall and that Bill and John Wall thing was broken up and it was like,

I, Bradley Bill, you're the crown jewel of the franchise. Because where's the proof that that gets you anywhere near with the whiz have proven that they want, which is like, you know, six, seven, eight seeds, right? He hasn't even been able to deliver those for them. So I'd definitely be looking into Simmons route because Bill checks the box of All-Star, you know, raises our ceiling stuff that Philly was talking about. And, again, I think the Sixers understand that they would have to give up a lot of more stuff because Bradley Bill is way bad. better than Ben Simmons. Okay? It's not even close. Well, and he's better to an extent

that I think Simmons is the break glass in case of emergency fallback plan for trading Bradley Beale. You can take a wide canvas with a player like Beal. There's going to be a lot of interest in him. And I like that you brought up Lillard as a counterpoint was because they're in a similar

position Portland is in terms of looking at their team, looking at the next three years, realistically, what is the best we can be? can we be a home court advantage team? Can we be a second round playoff team? And if you don't think you can, I think you owe it to yourself

and to your fan base and to your team to start making some substantive changes. The Wizards are in that position now where even if Beal is playing at the top of his game, which he's not right now, even if you improve the roster around him, which is kind of mediocre as it is, are you really going to crack this top four,

five, six teams in the Eastern Conference, which frankly are just all better than the Wizards are and could reasonably be in the near future? Surely an All-Star, like the Monis is, a bonus would raise the ceiling significantly on this team, Rob? Yeah, I just, it feels like Beal is a top tier number two. Yeah. And he should be playing with a number one like in Bid rather than the wizard's trying

to get somebody to supplement Beal. Because especially as we're looking at this long term, everything that signals that Bill wants to say is based on the fact that he's going to cash in to this enormous contract, five years, 242 million. And while he is younger, then I think I even realize, like it feels like Beal's been around a while now to the point where he's had almost two phases of his career when he was in those playoffs with John Wall and then now more recently where he stepped forward as the number one guy there. He's only 28. But at the same time, like, I don't know what I'm getting with a Beal plus whatever team. And I think the pathway to getting that number two is much more complicated with a guy like Beal there versus a guy like, let's just say Simmons, for instance, that's the trade you make.

and then you can maybe bottom out one year and then hope to pair Simmons with a high draft pick. Yeah, I don't think Ben Simmons is this kind of floor raiser where Simmons and a bunch of young guys takes you out of a nice plum lottery pick. I don't think anybody on this call believes that he's that type of player. So yeah, get another crack at a young dude

by effectively replacing Bill with Simmons, which, you know, it bears mention it again, a significant talent downgrade, right, in every sense of the word. And yeah, and move forward that way. I know the Wizards because their ownership group has traditionally been like so thirsty for any type of playoff success. I understand an aversion to do that. But yeah, I think another crack at the lottery.

And then, of course, you know, seeing what guys like Denny and Rui Hachamora have to have for you going forward. You know, I think that would be the prudent move for this team. Well, when you think about the moves for Simmons that involve Simmons that would make sense for other teams, we've been circling around this for over a year now. This is the kind of... It's felt late 10. I know.

This is the kind of group that would make sense is a rebooting, a rebuilding, a rebuilding wizard's team. You almost want a franchise that's starting from scratch a little bit because Simmons is the kind of player you want to start with from the ground up and not try to fit him into whatever you're doing. Like you really need to reconceptualize your whole roster to fit him. And whether you think that's worth it or not as a separate issue. And then there's the question of if you're Washington, do you want to embark on that kind of endeavor? Or do you want a young player in return for Beal or picks in return for Beal

who are going to be a little bit more open-ended in terms of what your style of play and what your team construction is going to be like? Yeah, I just read all these reports about how the Wizards are doing everything to convince Bradley Beal to sign this massive extension. I'm just like, why? Like you're going out of your way in order to commit yourself to above-averageness at best. And I get it. Like I think the key point is the ownership and how much they've been willing to just like strive for the middle

or just some semblance of success or success that they could sell to a still pretty meager fan base. And I'm just like why. Like it just doesn't seem like it makes a lot of sense. Like like why not just get rid of Beal and start off? and maybe hope for something bigger. Oh, I think the why is you're hoping he resigns, and then eventually you're going to work out of trade. There's not a long, long-term future here, I don't think, for Beal and the Wizards.

It's either trade him now or trade him on his new deal. Those seem like the options to me. Yeah, and I guess it becomes complicated because it sounds like they feel the need to show him, like, something in order to stay. And that gets us into the sub bonus part of this. And so I wonder, like, if you're committing to Subonis as that number two guy, doesn't that just completely, you know, doesn't that make it more complicated down the road? Like, the number two isn't going to be there.

You're actually committing to Subonis now. What do we think about a Sabonis Beal duo, by the way? Rob, you're a man on the street, so to speak, in Indiana. They work together. Like, offensively, I think they would fit great. And some of that is what we've been talking about with Beal as, he's a really high level number two guy. So bonus is probably a really

low level number one guy or probably a level number two. Yeah. I think he's better than that. But point being, he can be a hub for an offense that lets Beale run around and let's get off ball a little bit more in a way that I think would be really healthy for both of them.

They would be a really good offensive team. They'd be really dynamic in that regard. They'd be fun to watch. And if you're Bradley Beal, I think that'd be fun to play that kind of style. But you're not going to beat Joel and Bede playing that way or the bucks or the nets or, you know, now they have the calves to worry about. You get the hornets on the rise.

The heat. There's just a lot of good teams at the top of the east right now. Yeah. And again, the thing about Sabonis, whatever he adds for you offensively, I don't want to call him a bum on defense, but, you know, that guy's anchoring your defense. Yish, good luck with that. And again, you would want to pair somebody like Sabonis with size at the other

positions, right? Like big wings, big, you know, the type of four that can give you some level of rim protection and just, you know, mass at those positions. And I don't really even think the wizards do that are able to put that together by bringing in some bonus because they got to get rid of some stuff. And I think on the wings, they would have to get rid of some stuff to bring them in. So, you know, I don't know. Well, I mean, they could do just like a supercharged offensive type of team where it's like Sabonis and Kuzma and KCP and Beal

and name your like off guard there like I guess maybe didn't wait if they don't trade him. He's also been in trade rumors like that seems like the jolt I'm getting from this espresso right now, you know, at the very least that's an identity for a team as opposed to what they are now which is like fun and like decent but clearly

that hasn't done much for them. Well so what are you giving up for Sabonis then? Just all of the young players packaged together because I don't know that salary wise, that's enough. I think you're going to have to give up someone like KSMA or KCP just to make the numbers work. Right. Yeah. The recent reporting is they're looking for Vooch a price, like Vooch return, which was what, two first round picks plus salary. Yeah. And for what? Like, where are you going? You know, like, I think the Bulls have made, they've made the case for that kind of trade, right?

Like if we get this guy in the door, we make some smart for agent additions, maybe we can elevate, maybe we can hit a different level. What is the next move for the wizards to get to that point once they get Sabonis and Beal, who, again, I think are a good combo, but it does lock you in in terms of what their roster looks like,

barring kind of a derosen level miracle with a guy who is kind of forgotten about, kind of cast off who just all of a sudden pops in the context of your team in a way that he didn't for his previous team. they do have a lot of salary flotsam on this roster like montres harold makes 9.7 Thomas Bryant who unfortunately just went out with another ankle injury I believe or lower body injury last night 8.7 million so you could feasibly not ruin your

core core in air quotes and just bring in a bonus four picks as we've seen the picks thus far aren't doing too much for them because I don't know if anybody's really sold on hachamura abdia or kisper at this point um all right let's uh let's let's to the Utah Jazz here, another team in the news, in part because, essentially because Joey Ingalls is now lost for the season. Tourney-C-L, the big deal there is he had been talked about as the matching salary if the Jazz were going to upgrade on the wing. And they're going to do anything in order to support their defense. They still could trade him. Unfortunately, it would be dead money and it would just be salary as opposed to getting a halfway

a good decent player back here. Rob, what do you think for the jazz here now? Do you see an easy fit? Do you think the Ingalls thing compromises their ability to maybe help themselves on defense here? Because right now they're two for 11 over their past 13s because things are not going well. Well, Donovan Mitchell's been out too,

which when their offense isn't there, they just cannot win. So Ingalls being out really complicates things because now they have two holes. They need to plug it once. They have this perimeter defense problem that's been there all season. And now they need secondary playmaking, too. They need to fill wing minutes.

They need depth because when Ingalls went down, I think, you know, my natural instinct, everyone else's natural instinct, you look down the roster, you say, okay, who are the candidates to get this guy's minutes now that he's out of the lineup? And it is bleak. Like, they're just not a lot of good options there. So you need bodies. You need both of these high-level skills at once, which those are hard things to acquire at the same time. So I think you're going to have to pick and choose a little bit.

do we want to move in more of a defensive direction or do we want to try to prop our offense back up to the point that we can win games? I lean toward the defense a little bit, but it's tricky. And the one trade I keep trying to come back to for OKC is what would it take to pry Lou Dort out of OKC and bring him to Utah?

That's a guy the Thunder love. It may cost you a bit to get there. But if you were to give up, say, an unprotected 2026 first, that's after Donovan Mitchell and Gobert's contracts expire, anything could happen for the Jazz. Are you willing to give up a totally unprotected first and some salary filler?

You know, like we'll say, Udoka Azabuki, for example, who's, you know, a center prospect they could take a flyer on if they really want to, the Thunder. Is that enough to get a Dort deal done? I don't know. And we should mention that 2026 is the first available first round pick that they can offer team, just be considering what they've shared in the past. I mean, was, does that entice you at all?

Lude Dor as the key to a Utah Jazz championship run? So I'm of the, I'm of a different opinion. I think the jazz should probably lean towards scoring guys who can create off the bounce more for the playoffs. And guys who, look, as long as you can do that and you're not a complete just turnstile on defense, that's what I would be leaning towards. That's why I was thinking Eric Gordon as a jazz guy, right? Because he won't get completely blown up by bigger wings because he's pretty stout, if not long.

And again, his shooting, his ball handling, like he brings all of that to the table, which I think they're going to need in the playoffs, right? Because it can't just be Donovan Mitchell all playoff long, playmaking and trying to create. And of course, Mike Connolly in a secondary role. So I think Eric Gordon, who I think I just am higher on than most people are, because I just think in a playoff setting, he's a gamer.

And defensively, he doesn't kill you. He's not in lead. He's not Lou Dort, certainly, who's like on the Ananoby level and any of your best perimeter defender levels. I'll put Lou Dort up with anyone in the league right now. However, just offensively, there's no contest there. These spaces you out to 30 freaking feet. He can beat a close out.

he can finish at the cup. I would be looking at Eric Gordon if I was them. I love that the Thunder would have to trade a guy in his late 20s because he doesn't fit their timeline. That's not the reason. It's just, you know, if you want to, you know, sell high on a guy who is still developing offensively, I mean, they're in such need of a player like Lou Doord.

Although with Dort and Gordon, both those guys are stout, as well as mentioned, but they're both still pretty short. Like, you're still very small on the perimeter fundamentally. But I think there are a couple ways you could get a Dort deal done. You know, it's either the construction

I laid out or if you want to get really weird, how about a three-way trade with the Bucks where Lujord comes to the jazz, Boyan Bogdanovich goes to the Bucks. Hmm. And then this would basically be the Bucs operating under the assumption that Brooke Lopez will not be able to play this season.

And so Lopez, Dante DiVincenzo, and Milwaukee's first go to the Thunder. Is that enough for Lou Dort? I don't know. Again, this is a guy who the Thunder, I think, love, perhaps irrationally love and have bonded to. They've really, what's the word I'm looking for? They've really imprinted.

Lou Dord has imprinted on the Thunder franchise in a way that I think is hard to separate. But if you're going to go for a defense option, I like that. If you're going for a more balanced option, is there an Indiana trade to work out with Boyan Bogdanovich, sending him back to the Pacers where he had a nice resurgence to his career.

Yeah. Could you get Justin Holiday and Jeremy Lamb for Boyan Bogdanovich or could you get Karris Levert? Or Karris Levert for Boe and Bogdanovich. Can we get the Pistons or the magic involved here? So could just have the most boring franchise

this far as markets in the league. I don't understand the idea of having Jordan Clarkson and Karris Levert on your team. That seems like a redundancy and also it bears mentioning that this is a, Jeremy Grant allegedly suitor the Jazzar. I don't know how they make it work.

Probably some future first rounder way, way, way, way out in the Netherlands. But, you know, obviously I think bringing in Jeremy Grant would be a coup for this team, both for his perimeter defense, the size that he brings. He's a decent and enough shooter that teams have to guard him, even in lineups that have Rudy in it. So, yeah, obviously, I think Grant would be an incredible addition. But I think these are all of the same players, right? Like, it is Eric Gordon.

It is Jeremy Grant. All of these guys who have been available all freaking season long. Yep. It's an interesting idea, Rob, your three-team trade. I guess my question is, is Boyon, the Boyon of old enough that the Bucs would be willing to mortgage to sell off Devenzenzo at this point? Because on the one hand, they have to pay DeVenzenzo. this off season, on the other hand,

he's literally their only trade piece and the only young guy, so he's the only guy who could grow in the next, like two to three years for a very, very veteran team. I mean, I just think he gives them such a dynamic shooting presence at that combo forward spot

that especially if you're just kind of accepting the fact that Janus is going to have to play a fair bit of five in the playoffs, that's the kind of guy you want next to him. Somebody who can dribble, pass, and shoot, who's going to be a high-level threat from the perimeter. I think he could really work. The question is, are they willing to give up Brooke Lopez?

And not just the possibility of him playing this season, but next season, if it's going to be a longer-term recovery, because he sells one more year under contract. And is all that going to be enough for the Thunder? Like, are they going to be okay with Dante DiVincenzo, Brooke Lopez to potentially flip later and a first-round pick as the return for Lou Dorrit? I don't know if that moves the needle for them in any kind of meaningful way. I mean, for the Thunder, I like it because if you're looking for, for anything at this point. It's upside and like untapped upside. And while again, you do have to pay. They don't have enough untapped upside on their team. Well, I don't think you need a role player like Dort at this point. You need someone who could be a potential number two, number three guy next

to a Shay three to five to ten years down the line. Yeah, but I don't think a trade for a Milwaukee first round pick or any of these contenders first round pick brings you that much closer to that. And I think Lou Dort is the type of guy you need next to superstars, right? Like next to was Shay. Well, you know, superstars are strong word. But you know what I mean? Like that can guard, do the dirty work of guarding the best perimeter players, whether they be wings or point guards, so that your number one guy can do the work of basically, you know, running the offense,

scoring low, playmaking load, et cetera, et cetera. So, but it's hard to know what the hell. the Thunder want to do, to be honest. You know, it's just like, yeah, let's just get, let's just get picks. Let's just do picks. Let's pick from now until they don't let us pick anymore. So I don't know. Well, and from the jazz side, we've heard the Ingalls and Picks attached thing all

season long as an option for them. As you outlined, Justin, that's now more complicated with him out for the rest of the way. That, to me, makes Bogdanovich their most interesting trade candidate. Because he's a guy who's important to them, who's valuable to them. But he's not completely. essential. He's just movable enough that you could talk yourself into some possibilities. The problem

is you're giving up a pretty capable offensive player at a time where you really need that offense. And that's where we circle back to you know, Waz brought up the elephant in the room, which is Jordan Clarkson. Is anyone willing to take Jordan Clarkson and give you something of value? Because it's been a rough go

for him. Awful shooting season for Jordan Clarkson. His offenses felt more like empty calories than ever before. is there anyone who needs scoring badly enough that they could be convinced to take him on? Send him home. The Lakers, baby. Oh, boy. That's what they need.

More ball handlers who can kind of shoot. Well, at this point, LeBron might not see the court for another month, so they do need ball handlers. Jesus. I mean, Jordan Clarkson as just another undersized guard who can't guard a single person. Who, Lord, what a Lakers season this has been. Yeah, I don't know what team.

needs that. I mean, and by the way, Jordan Clarkson, Malik Mung, Kendrick, like, these are all the same player type, basically. Yeah, it's tough. Can I throw a galaxy brain Jordan Clarkson trade idea at you guys? Always, yeah. I mean, Justin, you asked us to bring trade ideas today. Now that I'm looking at mine in the light of day, my only real response is, what have I done? What is the horror that I have unleashed upon the world, and I think this is one of the examples of that, Jordan Clarkson to the Clippers for Justice Winslow and Serge Abaka,

does that move the needle for Utah at all? My thinking is those are two guys who are not really essential to the Clippers for good reason. This is Justice Winslow, who doesn't have much of an offensive game, Serge Abaka, who's post-injury,

been in and out of the rotation, not always effective. But I could see Winslow and Bogdanovich as kind of a workable forward combination starting. Winslow is now kind of your go-to stopper. And Sergei Baca gives you the backup small ball five that Rudy Gay emphatically has not been. Those Rudy Gay at the five lineups have been such a disaster.

And the whole thing we've been talking about with Rudy Goberer being out of the lineup and the defense is completely falling apart, I wonder if Abaka is a way to stem some of that tide. Again, this is moving deck chairs around a little bit. I don't know what you're losing exactly, losing Jordan Clarkson, but I don't know. don't see a lot of good to the role he's playing for the jazz right now. I think if you move Jordan Clarkson, you need to get someone back that you can count on

will be there in the playoffs. And I just don't know if certain is going to be available like next week, let alone in two to three months. Absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. I think you need to need guys you can count on to be there in March. And so here's my question because I think you hit the other option for the jazz here.

Will they go lower level? Will they just bring in a guy to help their deal? defense in particular that four or five spots. So I have a couple options down here for you. Let me know if you like any of these better than Sir Jabaca. Larry Nance, also who has been out since January 5th and thus would have the same problems, though he, I think, would be a better option younger and more in his prime. Robert Covington, Gary Harris, Kenrick Williams, Thad Young. Do any of those do anything for you? Do you like any of those more than Sir Jabaca?

Why? I mean, the only person that stands out to me there is that young because, you know, he gives you a little bit on the defensive end and he's just more dynamic with the rock than every single other person on this list. Like, Gary Harris ostensibly is a guard and should know how to dribble but doesn't. But he can only shoot.

His shot has come back to the point where I think he's Eric Gordon adjacent. Oh, no. Adjacent. Adjacent. He doesn't have the ball skills. He doesn't have the downhill thing at all. But my thing is his jump shot is so unreliable. And it has been back this season, but in a playoff setting in big spots,

when teams are just like, it's going to come down to Gary Harris or else on certain possessions. I don't trust that dude to make shots. Not a dude whose shot has waxed and wane over the past two to three seasons. And I'm supposed to expect him. biggest moments of the most important games that he's going to have it to knock down key jumpers, I can't, I can't go there with him. To me, Thad Young is the best of those options because, you know, theoretically, he's still kind of a three, you know, can still kind of guard threes, though.

He came into the league as one of those. He's not anymore. But, yeah, I think as a four, he's just, I don't know, man, he just gives me so much more offensively, which, again, I know Utah, they've been scoring all. season. But I think in the playoffs, man, they're going to actually need as much hands on deck offensively as they can. I don't think it's going to be about like, oh, we didn't have somebody for Paul George. I think they got to get buckets. Rob, any of these guys fit your fancy? Not really. Now returning as a small forward.

We're scraping the bottom of a barrel. I like some of these players. To me, it's more a function of the Jazz's needs are now so big. They're so significant that I don't know that any of those guys are really moving things around. Even like, so with Gary Harris, right, if he was a Jay Crowder type where it's like he's guarding my threes and he's giving me my fours,

okay, cool. I could deal with the level of shooting and offensive deficiencies that he has. But he's, dude, he's guarding guys at six, four and under. You know, and to me, that's just not that valuable. that combined with the shooting thing, you know, God knows we are not ready for another conversation about jazz role players missing open shots and how they should have won that series, if not for

the probabilities. I am done with all of that. And I'm not ready for Gary Harris to participate in it going 0 for six in a critical game. Don't put the blood on his hands too. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it circles back to the existential question about the jazz here. Are they one player away? And if they're not, like, what is the future a hold here? Because there are some like fundamental flaws here. a lot of the key role players that they brought in two years ago to make this final push, Mike Conley Bogdanovich are just getting older. And so I wonder if the window's kind of closing here, but do you really want to give up a 2026 first round pick, especially if Angel is in charge, a guy who refused to do so with the Boston Celtics in order to build for the future.

I just think they're kind of at a gut check moment here where it's like, do you go all in even more or do you actually play for the future, maybe just hope to strike it rich with one of these upcoming draft picks and supplement what you already have. It's really, really tough. To the question of whether they're one player away, I think it's just an emphatic no at this point. Maybe they were before Joe Ingalls got hurt. But now that they have to fill both of those roles, and even in a best case scenario,

might have been drawing, like drawing and hoping to win against some of these better teams that they'd be overmatched against, I just don't see a universe in which you could say this jazz team is one player away from the side. sons. No way. All right. Let's flip to the clippers here because we kind of already started this discussion. The clippers are in an interesting spot. Kevin O'Connor wrote about this on the site just the other day. They could really punt on the season, maybe pick up some assets for certain veterans that could be appealing on other teams, like a Marcus Morris, another guy who only plays once a month,

but is ostensibly helpful to a contender in order to replenish the coffers that they, they kind of really just bottomed out when they made the Quiet Leonard traded a few years ago. Or if it really comes down to their intel on when Paul George and or Quai Leonard comes back here, do they say, actually, we're going to buy at the deadline. Let's get some more help and be the team that nobody wants to play in the playoffs. I mean, without knowing the particulars of the bodies of Paul George and Quy Leonard, do you have any like leaning one way or another here? I think they should be trying to get guys, right?

And they should be trying to use their rich-ass owner as a way to move a dude who has way less years left on his deal to get somebody who does that a team's like, look, I could use some getting off of some of this money as a way to, you know, collect talent. Because guess what? They don't care about the luxury tax over there. Their owner is the richest man damn there in the world. So, you know, I think that's the type of move they should be trying to do, possibly moving off of my man, Eric Bledsoe. We mentioned Sergei Baca. They should be trying to get guys in and using their spending power as a ballast.

Well, especially Abaka, because he's going to be a free agent in the off season. This is your last chance to take a swing with him, see if his contract can get you anything of value. I don't know that there's that much interest in him out there right now. The market is pretty tepid for a guy who just can't be counted on to be on the floor. It's tough. But that's the biggest chip, at least in terms of priority for me, if I'm the Clippers, can we get something for Abaka?

And if not, it starts getting weird because they're in a position where they don't have a lot of draft equity anymore. They don't have a lot of things they can use to facilitate these moves. Eric Bledso isn't getting a lot of teams on the phone right now. So who do you have that's really attractive in terms of trade candidates? Who is it that's going to entice someone to do business with you? I mean, the thing with Bledsoe is I believe his next year is only partially guaranteed. So he could just work as salary. Nick Batum is someone, I don't know what you're getting for him, but he could help a contender

on the fringes. Yeah, he's good. Marcus Morris is good in theory. He has been just really confusing as a Los Angeles Clipper. And in a weird way is kind of the original sin of this entire problem because he was the last trade they made with their last assets in order to get to this core around Paul George and Kaui Leonard. I don't know. Like it gets dicey pretty quickly. So maybe like the only option really is to add, right?

And that you move someone like Eric Ledso and bring in in Eric Gordon. because Gordon, the whole problem is he has an extra year on top of this one he has now at 19.6 million, which is a lot of money. But there you go. That's how Steve Ballmer supports his guys there. I just have a hard time thinking in those terms with this latest intel that Paul George may be out for the season. That changes everything for me. Like we talked about previously on the pod, I thought they had a chance if Kauai came back that they could be pretty tough.

At least a tough out. if Paul George isn't going to play, I think you've got to be swinging for, again, players with upside, guys who can give you something a little bit more dynamic, and that's just a hard sell with what they have available. I think, you know, Nick Batum is a really useful player for a lot of different teams,

but is he getting you a real difference maker in return that's more valuable than what he gives you as a switchable defender and a facilitator and all that stuff? It's tough for them right now. They probably feel like the market is better for them to add talent, now rather than the summer with things, you know,

there's so many more suitors in the summer when it comes to these kind of guys. Like everybody's going to want to stack their team with guys who can actually play and not lottery tickets and fucking draft picks in the 20s that people will fool themselves into thinking they're going to be quality players. Yeah.

I also wonder how much this magical run where Luke Carnard is single-handedly overcoming a 35-point deficit is going to last here. Like on the one hand, you could say like, oh, they're way spunkier than we thought they would be without George or Leonard. On the other hand, you could be like, how long is this going to continue? On the one hand, 26 and 27, better than the Lakers. One came up from the Lakers, which is wild.

But, you know, like there are a lot of teams underneath them that are really going to be pushing just to get in the play on. The Pelicans might do something at the deadline. The Kings definitely are going to do something at the deadline. So we'll see there. And on that note, with the Kings, I actually want to pivot to the Portland Trailblazers. Go ahead. Before we pivot, I want to float to trade ideas for the Clippers by you guys.

And I think could help them a bit now, but more so help them next season. You really went after this assignment, Rob, and I appreciate it. I do my homework, Justin. I do my homework. What would be the interest in flipping Nick Batum and Isaiah Hartenstein to the Bulls for Kobe White? The idea being another scoring point guard, a guy with a little bit of juice off the bounce, give you something for next season beyond what those guys are giving you now.

And for the Bulls, a nice flexible wing, a backup center, I could see the shape of that kind of checking out for some things that Chicago wants. I think Chicago's, they got to feel like they can get more for Kobe White than Nick Baton. Right. You know, I've never understood

the Kobe White appeal. And I'm talking about from draft night. Like, I was like, this guy's like short as hell and he's not like particularly clearly explosive. I don't, and his jump shots cool, but not insane. Like, I never understood the Kobe White thing. But if when you draft somebody that high, the idea that what you get back is, you know,

Nick Battoon on his last legs is kind of crazy, you know. But look, if the Bulls want to get, if they want to get funky, they can start thinking about Patrick Williams and other, and some of the other young guys that might be a little bit more attracted if they really truly think they could make some noise in the playoffs with their core group right now. Well, before we get funky, if I'm the Clippers, I think my first call

is to the Mavericks. And I'm pitching them, okay, Jalen Brunson is going to be a free agent. Whoa. You know, things are going to get expensive for you real quickly. What if we give you a full compliment of Luca friendly role players instead? What if we give you...

Marcus Morris? Not even. Nick Batum, Reggie Jackson. and Terrence Man. I mean, Terrence Man could be a long-term fit next to Luca, could work really well alongside him. For Jalen Brunson and Dwight Powell, what does that do for you? So we know that you've had the hamburger for four years now.

Would you like a turkey burger? It's not as filling, doesn't taste as good, but it's kind of similar. Look, sometimes as we get older, we have to go for the turkey burger, Justin. It's just a fact of life. I guess so. Yeah, I think Terence Mann is definitely a Luca fit

in the sense that, you know, he's proven he can make a wide open jump shot and basically nothing else. But guess what? He's incredible in transition. Defensively, he can guard one through three, theoretically, of course, depending on the ones, the twos and the threes. Like, that's super attractive for me, especially for a guy in Brunson who, from the whispers and murmurs,

it feels like the Mavs don't want to pay this dude. You know? And that's the only reason his name is in all of these trade rumors. So, hell yeah. I'd be trying to get some wing depth and go all in on the idea. Like, look, if we don't care for Jalen Brunson to be soaking up possessions offensively for us, if we're just going to go all in or Luca just, you know, 40% usage in all the important games, then shit, man, surround him with wing guys who can defend and make open jump shots.

I'm not doing it unless I get an impact player back. I'm just paying Brunson and I'm worrying about this a year or two from now. Like, you're getting rid of the opportunity cost by doing so. And just for a couple of role players, it's not worth the squeeze at that point. I can tell you this is probably not what the Mabs have in mind for a return for Jalen Brunson. But the trick with Brunson is his contract is so low unless you're giving up some of these big contract role players alongside him. I don't think you're getting a second or third level star. You're going to have to be swinging for role players if you're going to make that trade, which, to your point, maybe just all the more reason to try to resign him and work something out later if you have to.

Well, now we could pivot to the Portland Trailblazers because I think one of the prime candidates for a Brunson trade would be someone on the level of a C.J. McCollum. Like, would you trade McCollum for Brunson? Portland thinks like, yeah, I get a younger guy who's more of a steady player that could, you know, run the plays and maybe Lillard. could play off him a little bit more, whereas CJ just like juices the MAV's offense in ways that Brunson can't. But where are you finding $30 million in salary on the MAV's roster to trade? And this is the CJ McCollum problem in a nutshell. It's not easy to find teams that need a small scoring guard that also have $30 million in salary to trade out.

It's a tough fit. You say that, but I just heard the Sacramento King's music, my friends. Oh, boy. because this is the one I drew up for our friend, C.J. McCollum, because you know that the Kings are going to want to make a push here, even though they are on the outside of the 10 seed even. C.J. McCollum and Yusuf Nerkich for Deeran Fox and Marvin Bagley.

Your team is now McCollum, Halliburton, healed Barnes, and Nerkich. No, thank you. That's just a yucky. Wow. That's a yucky team. I don't want, I don't want Bagley. anywhere near my building, first of all.

He's kind of just a throw-in to make the math work if you want. How is Bagley any different than Larry Nance, Jr. at this point? You know what I mean? Is he even better? He's not. I know he's got the quote-unquote the alleged pedigree.

I'm sure his dad thinks so anyway. But I don't see why I do that. And then... So you don't think the Blazers are getting enough? I don't know why I want Bagley. And then, You know, the Deeran Foxing is not that he's not a talent. It's if I'm doing the Dame thing, now, if I'm doing a fire sale

and I'm just getting a bunch of stuff in house and I'm also moving Dame and I'm doing all kinds of things, then sure, maybe the Fox thing makes sense. But Fox is another small-ish guard. The problem for Portland has been that they've just put these small-ass, unathletic, unathletically imposing teams around Dame, I'm going to just do more of that with Deerrant Fox. You know, I just don't see the point of that.

That's why I thought they were so in on Simmons because it's this idea that here's finally a big wing size, athleticism, versatility that we pair with Damon just instead of doing, you know, the other thing about C.J. That not a lot of people talk about is he don't playmate. He's just a gunner, right? And so he's perfect in Sacramento. Well, sure.

But I'm just saying like, I don't know. I just, that's just a nasty deal. Besides those seven things that was mentioned, Rob. This is a nasty deal. Well, tell me, Justin, are you operating in a world where Damien, Lillard is still a prominent piece of the Blazers plans? Because I'm not sure I buy Fox and Lillard anymore than I do McCollum and Lillard. The thinking is that he's younger.

He has untapped upside. And he could be more complimentary to Lillard in ways that McCollum maybe isn't just because they play similar types of games. Like he would be the guy setting up Lillard. He could ostensibly get back to playing defense. You could run a little bit more with him in Lillard and Bagley if you decide he wants to stick around. You would be basically supercharging your team a little bit.

You would be blood-boying them with a little bit of youth, is my thinking. I just can't imagine a world where after all this time with two small guards, the Blazers are going to trade their way into another small guard situation. I just can't see it But let me float this alternative to you Maybe the Blazers look across the country They see the Knicks getting a little bit restless You know, you're not going to get Damon Lillard if you're the Knicks

You're not going to get the next star if you're the Knicks Can we interest you in C.J. McCollum instead? What about a C.J. McCollum for R.J. Barrett and Evan Fornier kind of construction. Is R.J. Barrett too much to give up for C.J. McCollum. 100%. I kind of figure so. I don't even understand.

Because the CJ thing again, he's slightly better than, I shouldn't say slightly. He's probably clearly better than what the idea of what Kimba was supposed to do. And obviously clearly better than what Kimba has given them, right? He's so much better than any of their point guards right now. Sure.

But like, I'm not giving them. Whoa, whoa. Don't talk about quickly like that in front of a New York native. But I just don't understand. why I give up on RJ's no you know upside his betting on his work ethic and his you know

his his thirst to get way better and he's shown that he's gotten better throughout the course of his short career so far I just don't you know somebody as limited as CJ is man he's just a one dimensional he scores which is a valuable commodity but he doesn't do anything else so CJ is not worth RJ Barrett

but he you're saying Deere and Fox isn't enough. RJ Barrett could be a real deal star. I think RJ Barrett and I think RJ Barrett makes sense next to Dame Lillard. Yeah.

That's the thing. Like a big... Because he's a wing. Yeah. And he's big and he guards. He can play defense. For Tibbs. We'll see what happens

when he gets to Portland. I don't know. Like, does he... What is he on offense though? Like, does he need the ball? Is he the type of guy who plays off of Dame when he plays with Dame?

I think he's a second. Secondary ball handler, secondary ball handler, attack closeouts. Yep. You hope that he makes his wide open jump shots from the Dame Lillard sort of, what you will call it, gravity. And then I think he's one of those guys

when teams send two to the ball on Dame Lillard and he catches at the top of the key, he's shown beautiful playmaking in the past. You know, I just think he's a really versatile piece. I'm pretty high on him. I don't know that he's ever going to be, live up to third pick, especially when you consider the two guys he was drafted behind, who have already shown themselves to play at All-Star,

legitimate All-Star levels. Like, they put it on tape, whereas RJ hasn't done that yet, but I think next to Dame, he does make sense. All right. Any other Portland guys you could see finding new homes here? Because we're having a fire sale right now. Let's get rid of everybody except for Dame. I mean, Robert Covington, obviously,

his name keeps coming up. I don't know if the Lakers would want to kick tires on him because, you know, as good as he used to be on defense, a lot of it was help side. He generally would always get cooked on the ball. Like, I don't know. Larry Nance. Well, here, for Robert Covington,

I thought, send him back to Philly. Danny Green and a first round pick or actually a favorable 20. 2022, 23 second is what I have down here. The Covington conversation, I think, can get interesting if the Blazers are willing to take salary filler in a first. If they're just content with taking back a first to recoup

some of what they gave up to get Covington, what about the Sons? What about Dario Sarich's contract in a first to be Jay Crowder insurance? Or what about the Jazz Joe Ingle's contract in a first? I think both of those could be pretty viable options if the Blazers are into that sort of thing. But I don't know. That would have to be a fire sale situation.

Are we sure Covington is even worth a first? Like if they can get a first, I would take it. I mean, they might be worth a son's first, you know, if you're that good. Okay. I would do that for both sides. That makes sense. Any other deals you have percolating, Rob? Dario, Sarich.

By the way, just because Philly fans getting on my damn nerves, every time Maxi does anything. Y'all not tired of doing this? Do people not remember the Dario Sorich when he was on Philly, chatter. Do y'all remember that? He was like this important. Oh my God, the process is so insane. Because not only do we have Joel and Ben Simmons, we have Dario Sorridge, who's just straight up not even a guy anymore. Straight up. He was okay last year. Not to say Maxie's not going to be a guy. I like what Maxie's doing. I like what he did. I like that people can't stay in front of him.

He's explosive to the cup. I like that. I like what he has his tools. But like, why are we pretending he's anywhere close to as good as Kyle Lowry, which by the way, Lakers, They didn't want to do the THT thing. Okay. We're way down to the level where Waz defending his Tyrese maxi slander. The justification for it is Dario Sarich, which means we've gone too far.

We've gone way too far. I thought Sarge was good last year, but... Good player. It's another story. Let's flip quickly here because we're running out of time to our All-Star Reserve debates. We went through our starters last week. they were then announced on TNT.

I think everyone we picked was in, or at least I picked, was in, which is a more important thing, apparently, except for our friend Andrew Wiggins, who based on the K-pop legends out there, is now going to be starting an NBA All-Star game. In a world where Andrew Wiggins is an all-star, you don't think R.J. Barrett,

with some K-pop backing, can be an All-Star? I think he could. Yeah. I think the only difference was, Rob, you had Chris Paul and Waz and I had Morant, right? Yes. And if you listened to the broadcast last night, Monty Williams was like, at a certain point, winning has to come into account here, okay? Somebody on my team should be starting, which it's a fair.

Monty's making some sense. It's a fair criticism. But like, you're not going to argue with the staff. And the only thing you're saying is the John Morant, which, you know, I can see it. But that team has played over its head too. You know? I say this every year. There is an award for team success.

It's called the NBA championship. Give me a break. Oh, Rob also had Levine starting, I believe. That's true. Yeah. That's more based on semantics. Yeah. Well, based on the rules.

Some of us follow them and some of us don't. It's okay. Yes, Waz and I followed the rules because the Rosen was available at a guard. See, I think that's the technicality. You guys are exploiting the technicality. I'm just over here living life. All right. Let's start in the West, actually, because I think we had the most agreement there.

We all had Luca Donchich. Hold on one second. Are we choosing our reserves based on the actuality that Andrew Wiggins is an All-Star? Because that changes a lot of how the reserves. By the way, Varia gave us the directive of who we think is going to actually get picked. I picked who I think I would pick. Well, if you let me get through my spiel here, Rob, we would never. We only disagree on one person and that would come, that would be the Wiggins slot, essentially, right?

So we all had Luca Donchich. We all had Draymond Green, Carl Anthony Towns, Devin Booker. In the last wild card spot would be where we disagreed. Waz had Anthony Davis as a starter. Rob, you had Anthony Davis as a reserve. I have Dejante Murray at my last wildcard spot. Well, so this is the thing. I think Anthony Davis is only a reserve

in a world where Andrew Wiggins didn't take a forward spot. Now that he has, I don't think Anthony Davis is on the team. I think he's probably your number one injury replacement for Draymond Green. I think that's what Anthony Davis should ultimately probably be. I think we all agree that the last spot

would be the one where, like, Wiggins is occupying, right? Like we're arguing about a spot that doesn't exist essentially, but in our world where everything is Justin Wright, this is an open wildcard spot. I don't live in that world, Justin. I live in the real world. Yeah, man, yeah, it has to be Dejante Murray,

especially with a lot of the buzz that he's getting in the media. You know, Steve Kerr came out and said, I voted for him. You know, it's got to be Murray. at this point, and he would be deserving. He's definitely broken out this year, especially offensively. Defensively, I feel like he's had it for like two years now where he's just been an elite perimeter defender,

particularly on ball, on lead ball handler types. Two years ago, man, I watched him come, or it's three years ago. God damn, 2019. I watched him come into Staples. and this is before Lou Will got COVID and, you know, Magic City and all of that, when he was still like good as hell. And Lou Will didn't want to dribble. He was just straight up passing it out, like, yo, take this thing.

Because this guy is all over me. So it's nice to see his offense finally come around. And he's by far the best player on that Spurs team. And the only player that's like, you can point to him be like, all right, I pretty much know what that is, what that value is, why I would want that on my team. So shout's to DeJante Murray. I'm glad you think that way because you did not have him on his ballot.

No, he wasn't on my ballot. Because, like, again, like, for All-Star, you know, if Paul, like, if Paul George wasn't, like, completely ruled out for damn the season, like, I'm playing Paul George on my All-Star team before DeJante Murray. He's just clearly way better in all the minutes that he's played on the Florida season. as limited as it has been, right? Anthony Davis, same thing.

Like, in the minutes that he's played as diminished as Anthony Davis has looked to his standard, way better than Dejante Murray has been this year, even though Dejante Murray has put in more, you know, he's logged in more hours, if you will. He's punched in the clock more. But I just think when the discrepancy is that far in who's done what this year,

I lean towards the clear-cut dudes, man. Yeah, I do think the games played is the tipping point for me, just because Davis has 30 games, which is more than he had before he came back. I think it definitely helps his case that he's played recently. Dejante's been there all season, 45 games played. That's a 50% increase, you know? Yeah, and Davis is like his case is made on defense, and you can't really take that away from Murray because he's also a very good defender. That's fair. But this is where the Andrew Wiggins thing, you know, Q,

and goofy as it is. It just kind of mucks it up. It really does muck up Dejante Murray's case to make one of these spots. I think it's ultimately going to cost him one. We've seen things in the past

where a guy who should be a reserve ends up as a starter. This is the rare case where a guy who just was not going to make the All-Star team is now an All-Star starter. Are you serious, Rob? You have not heard

from Draymond Green and Steph Curry and every single Warriors person ever. Wiggins is he's clearly put an all-star case together this year. It's true. Sorry.

Rob, how did you say that? I forgot that the front court spot should be Wiggins, Yokic, and Looney as the starters. Take it up with Bam, bam, bam, guys. Murray, 19.6 points per game, 9.1, assists, 8.5 rebounds. And he leads the league with seals at two a game. So he's basically averaging a triple double. By the way, when that dude got drafted, the idea that he would be that type of playmaking lead guard, nine-assisted game.

That didn't seem even remotely in the picture for him. So that he's doing that, again, kudos to him, man. It did before the draft because he got a lot of buzz and then all of a sudden fell all the way down. And everyone's like, oh, my God, the Spurs just got just lucked into another really great guy. And then he just completely languished for about two to three years. But here he is on top of the world yet again. What a success story.

All right, let's pivot to the east here because we have a lot of disagreement here. we all have Jimmy Butler and Jason Tatum and James Hardin and Zach Levine although Rob you had Levine as a starter you would put DeRosen as a reserve Wads you had Lowry Kyle Lowry Chris Middleton and Jalen Brown Rob correct me if I'm wrong but we both had

Jared Allen Fred Venvley and Drew Holiday The Drew Holiday spot is the one I waffle on depending on the day to me that last spot is either Drew Holiday, Lamello Ball Darius Garland. I could be talked into any of those three, depending on how I'm feeling on that particular. And of late, I find myself leaning more toward Holiday or Lamello in particular. I think Darius Garland's had an incredible season, one of the primary drivers of Cleveland's offensive success so far. I think those other two guys are on a slightly different level. And so it's just a

matter of like, do you pick this guy in Lamello who's not only a primary option for his team, but really the engine of their success, or do you pick this high achiever on a lot of a a better team, but who realistically is the second or third option on his team. That thing is always hard to parse for me. Like I said, like I said, Chris Middleton,

better than Drew Holiday, better than Van Vlead. Look, Jared Allen, Jared Allen, I do want to reward, right? Because I feel like outside of the, because I don't think you can take away his contribution to what Mobley's doing.

Because Mowgli is able to do what he's doing at the four, and Jared Allen is such, he's just providing quality, rebounding, rim protection at the five. And then finishing, man, like, this dude catches the damn ball, which I know in the NBA should be taken as a given, but it's not Wiseman. You know, like, he's not even playing. He's not even playing.

I'm just saying as an example of a big who doesn't catch, right? Like, he's doing all of the dirty work stuff and his, his quality at that, at that position, at the bare minimum stuff that you ask, right? Like, every center, ideally, who's starting for you, can man the paint and can get rebounds and can finish when it's asked of him. And he's doing all of that at top-notch rates, man. Like, you know, you want to reward him for that. I've heard Jared Allen, I've heard Jared Allen discussed as a borderline all-star.

I think he's a lock. I think he has got to be there. exactly the reasons that Woz laid out. But I also think Fred Van Fleet has to be a lock. And Was, that's why I don't understand how you're elbowing him out of this conversation. He is way too good. Look, that streak where

he was just dropping 30 on people's heads like night after night, he's been incredible this year. And I do feel bad because I am one of the preeminent Fred Van Vleet guy. Like, he's one of these guys. You're not anymore. That's gone. Those days are over.

Look, look, I have to, but I have to stick to my principles, right? Like, when it comes to the Jalen Browns and the Chris Middleton's of the world, like, to me, those dudes are all-stars. Those are freaking all-star players, man. Like, sentimentally, of course, I want Fred Van Ville to have that achievement. And you see what it means to guys, right? You know, and I'm going to mention this for the 500 times, but Rudy Gobert cried about not making a damn all-star team, right?

Devin Booker's like, they told me once I would win games and I was on the, I'm on the number one team in the league. And then I put me started. Like, this stuff really means a lot to these guys, obviously. But, you know, if you're going to ask me on my ballet to pick between Fred Van Vleet and Jalen Brown, I mean, that's a... Oh, Fred Van Vleet has been so much better this season than Jalen Brown. So much better. I agree to disagree.

But I like how somehow you've outflanked me on Chris Middleton and I've outflanked you on Fred Van That's crazy. Incredible. Well, here's the interesting question. If you weren't stuck to putting guys into front court or back court, would you put someone else other than Allen? Like, would you nominate Garland as the representative for Cleveland over Allen? I think it would be Allen because the calves are winning with their defense and their defense

is great because of him and Mowgli. And as Woss said, what they do for each other. Now, if you want to make the case for Evan Mowgli for that spot, I could, I could, I could hear it out. But I think what Alan does is a little bit more of like a backbone type performance for them. It's a little bit more of what keeps them steady. And so for me, he's the guy. But

if you want to make room for the Drew Holiday, the Lamello conversation, if you were like to expand this into just like overloading the reserves with guards, I would hear it out, but I think Alan would ultimately still be there. I don't see how you keep Kyle Lowry off for this team.

I just like the heat success with like the amount of games that Jimmy and Bam have missed this year. And again, Spolster deserves his credit. Their player development staff deserves their credit for what they've done with a bunch of, no disrespect to those guys, but they're nobodies. What Kyle Lowry has put on the floor this season

in terms of leadership and production, to me, he's a clear all-star this year. But, you know, I understand the sentimentality of getting first-time guys. in there, right? Like the Van Vleets, like the Jared Allens, but come on, man, Chris Middleton, Jalen Brown, Kyle Lowry, to me, those are all stars. Like, you see the names

and it's all star. You know, Jared Allen, I'm just like, do you don't believe that people can change, is what you're saying? Yeah, this is really what we're getting to. The capacity for a human being to evolve. Kyle Lowry averaging 13 points, which he hasn't done, since 2012, 2013. He's a no-stats All-Star, though. We know that.

I will say this. He does massage his game to fit the role he needs to play for the team. And when Kawhi Leonard joined the Raptors, he became more of a distributor. He's doing that again with A to Siss a game for the... I think there's some diffusion of credit with Miami. It's just Jimmy Butler, he's a lock. He's been so good. Bam, if he had played more games, I think would be a serious all-star contender.

He just hasn't played enough minutes. and Tyler Hero, I mean, honestly, should probably at least be in consideration he's been so good, clear six man of the year so far. So I think Lowry suffers somewhat from that versus a guy like Fred Van Vleet, for example, who's just like carrying such a huge load

for his team. I can't wait until Russell Westbrook gets voted in by the coaches. There's going to be like something like that happening tomorrow. No fucking chance that happens. That would be so oh my God. Like the credibility, I mean the credibility is

teetering with this wigan stuff, by the way. I was, again, subonis last year. I was just like, wow, okay. If we're just going to put Russell Westbrook in there who, whoa. By your metric of he was a previous All-Star, he shouldn't make it.

But he's a minus for his team now, though. But he's a minus right now. Like, he's not even like, he's not like, He's not like good. It's not like he's still playing good. It's not like, oh, we're saying, oh, he's a little bit under the MVP level, Russell Westbrook, and we're not going to hold that against him. No, he's not in the same universe of that player anymore.

You can't say that about Jalen Brown and Chris Middleton. Come on, man. That's some respect for my boys. But, Was, I need you to prepare yourself for the fact that Sabonis might end up making this All-Star team as an injury replacement because he's pretty good. Kevin Durant is not going to play in this game. And so you're looking at a front court player to replace him. It's either going to be Subonis or Middleton or Bam, I guess,

if you can get around the games played, maybe Evan Mobley, maybe Miles Bridges. I think it's probably Middleton. All of those guys ahead of Subonis. It's probably going to be Middleton or Subonis, but will Adam Silver be content with three All-Stars potentially for a Bucks team that's been okay by their standards so far? Do you think it will be Rajan Rondo as a commissioner's exemption to send him off into retirement like he did with Dirk and Dwayne Wade?

What a wild thing that was. All right. Anyway, let's wrap it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. We'll be back next week and hopefully we have some actual trades to diagnose. We'll see it.