The Ringer NBA Show - The Most Intriguing Teams at the Trade Deadline | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos discuss who the most intriguing teams are ahead of the trade deadline and the possible acquisitions these teams could make. They talk about the Raptors, Knicks, Warriors, Lakers, and Pelicans. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely The 'Ringer NBA' squad is coming to Salt Lake City for NBA All-Star Weekend! Get your tickets here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Watch out for mouth tendrils and follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Barrier and joining me a podcast package worth at least a couple of seconds. Big Was, Rob Mahoney. Guys, I'm hearing a lot of things about Waz to Tea Time. Anybody else? Can we get cash considerations in that at least?

I don't know. Was, are you trade eligible? You are on that Supermax. Hey, hey, listen, man. shouts to the ladies of tea time, they do a great job. However, I can't get traded before Black History Month ends. And so they can't see me until March for Shoski. Okay, so we have to wait until the off season.

Exactly. For what it's worth, though, was you would kill it on tea time. There's no doubt. Of course. Good stats, bad pod sort of guy. Whoa. Good stats, great pod sort of guy. Well, I'm saying on this one.

Oh, on this one, yeah. I would get in my Zach Ephron bag and it'll be over for real. I don't totally know what that means. We will continue on. We are now a week out from the trade deadline, a week in like 12 hours or so, which means it is time for an annual tradition on the group chat podcast, the most intriguing teams at the trade deadline. We've got a few lined up here.

But first, guys, we have a. a very serious matter to attend to. Because we hear at the group chat podcast, when we get things wrong, we really like to correct our mistakes. You know, we like to own up to things. And on the September 28th podcast, it was suggested by one of these co-hosts that the Indiana Pacers should pay Miles Turner with all of their available cap space. And it was dismissed with great prejudice.

by other members of this podcast. And so I'm sure everyone listening to this podcast has heard the news that Turner indeed signed to renegotiating and renegotiate and extend for two more years on top of this one in which he is making functionally the max this year. I just want to give you guys... Okay.

It's great. See, this is where we got it. This is where we have to stop this. I just want to give you guys the opportunity to set the record straight, maybe apologize. if you so choose. Rob, you know how you know this is crap? I think I was on ESPNnbA.com, somebody's website.

And on the side where they just give innocuous news, it said Miles Turner sign a two-year extension for 60 mil. Yep. That's not a max contract, Justin. Like, they extended the guy. He's not on, like, and there's like seven different versions of the max under the CBA. He's on no version of the max

and he signed a two-year extension. You deserve your credit for saying they were going to pay the guy. Does he? Does he deserve credit? No, he doesn't deserve the credit. You're right, because he's been insufferable about it for the entire season.

Plus, to your point, even if it had been two years 60 purely as a deal, even that's not a max. Exactly. Miles Turner was eligible for a contract starting at $40 million

based on the cap projections. Next season he will make $21 million. Max. I think it's pretty close, though. Listen, I love whenever I get something right, everyone turns into Bobby Marks and they're talking about unlikely incentives

and all this other stuff. You're just making up numbers now. You're just pretending things are true that are not. This is crap. Like, at no point when I saw that news, I didn't think to myself, Oh, God, Justin's going to fucking do his fucking Justin thing. It's like, he signed a deal.

You're right. They re-signed him. You were like, oh, you got to max this guy out. He's a max deal. It's clear. He's going to be a max guy. I disagree with the tenor of the way that's being conveyed. I said maybe they should overpay him.

So I think I got broadly the right, you know. So tenor may be a little off, but was his voice impression on. Oh, totally, yes. That's pretty good. But do you want to talk about that quickly? Because it's actually the only piece of business that's been done of note leading up into the trade deadline. Kind of a weird extension because they're overpaying him now with the hope that he'll stick around for two more years. But adding only two more years to the deal, Rob, I mean, it kind of puts them back into a similar situation that they've been in for the past few years where he seems like on the verge of being traded, even though he has been playing relatively well.

Well, it does give him the chance to hit free agency again when he's in that max income bracket, right? So when he can really make the big money, he's going to be back on the market. And in the meantime, if you're the Indiana Pacers, you have a really good defensive center and you have a salary that's pretty movable if Miles Turner decides he wants to make, you know, some pleas to the rest of the NBA world to get traded to various destinations again. You know, like that option is going to be on the table for them and for him. And so this feels like an intermediary. step and one that probably suits both parties pretty well.

I think it's a nice thing because he got to prove himself this year, right? I don't know that he gets this deal under the circumstances that had been for so many years while he was paired up with Subonis. And so I think it's nice that he proved himself that, you know, the powers that be deemed him worthy of an extension at the same time to both of you guys' point, he's still. eminently tradable. Very tradable. He's still on a trading blocks. To the point where they could even trade him

this trade deadline because he only added two more extra years to his deal. So yeah, I think we will be back into this situation pretty quickly. But since we can no longer talk about Turner, we should talk about the one

team that seems to be in every other trade rumor. That is the Toronto Raptors. They're first up on our most intriguing teams at the trade deadline. they seem to hold all of the cards going into this deadline. They have all of the players that it seems like every team needs. And I do think at a certain point, if that is the case, you probably have to look at yourself and ask, should we actually trade any of these guys?

Although, considering the way the contracts are stacked up and the way things are going this season, it seems like a pretty fair question to be looking yourself into the mirror at this point in the season. So, was, I think the question going into the deadline, where are you on the Raptors just in general? Do you feel like they could just kind of do this grouping again next season, bring it back? Do they need wholesale changes? Do they need minor changes? You know, I'm somebody who oftentimes I kind of go against this idea that, oh, if we're not in position to win a championship,

or we're not in a position to draft the next guy that's going to help us win a championship, that we should blow it up, that we're wasting time, that we're, you know, basically on a treadmill of mediocrity. And so that's not good enough, and we should poo-poo that. I generally go against that.

However, I feel like they've done the thing of respectability for like three years now. And they know what it is. And so I'm of the mind that they should break it up. Just break up the monotony. Like what we, like, we can close our eyes and know they're a 40 win team, no matter what. Like, there's no intrigue here. There's no upside here.

You're not like giving something a chance. You know what this group is. You know what their ceiling is. You know what their floor is. And so, yeah, I think it's time to go in another direction. And if you're the president of the team, Masayu Jerry, who's about as job secure as it gets in this. business, you can afford to do so. And I'd like to see these guys play on prominent teams. And I want to see O.G. Ananoi in the playoffs on a team that matters. I'd love to see Pascal in the playoffs

on a team that matters. Fred Van Vleet, one of my favorite players in the league. I want to see him on a team that's actually trying to accomplish something rather than maintain their respectability. And so, yeah, I think they should actually blow this up. You know, if the last three or four weeks had gone differently, then I think this conversation may be in a different place, right? Like, they just haven't been able to get their best players on the same page at the same time to the point where when Seacom has played well, Van Vlead and Barnes have not, and vice versa has largely been true since Seacom's been coming back from his injury, which is a shame because I do think there is something here that's workable, but the vibes are off to the point that I think it is

time to talk pretty seriously about trades. And most importantly, there's just no one on this roster that is the best player on a contending team. And that's not an indictment. There's a lot of really good players here. But even when you look at Scotty Barnes down the line, that is not necessarily the skill set or the type of player who projects as that. And so what you're looking at is...

Talk about a victory lap. Perhaps premature. Yeah. Well, what they're really looking at is which of their players make sense the most sense as second or third guys? And that's in game, that's in personality, that's in contract. Who makes the most sense to be

the second or third guy on your next really good team. It's tough because when you start going down that road, you get into the whole situation with their contracts. And so Fred Ben Vleet and Gary Trent Jr. could be free agents this upcoming offseason. And then Ananobe and Siakum could be free agents the following off season. And on the one hand, you could say OG and Anobi, the player who could fit on maybe literally any team in the NBA. And I want to talk about him later in conjunction with a couple other teams.

but he's only making $17 million is the extension talk not going to work out because he's going to want to hit free agency because he knows he could probably get maxed out because every team wants him and do you want to get ahead of that? And so it really is this jumbled mess

where I think it's two separate questions. One is like the business question which is like, is it prudent to avoid situations where we're going to lose guys for nothing, which is what they fell into with Kauai, with Mark Gassal, and they really only got what,

precious to chew up basically? out of the Kyle Lowry deal. So that's like three key players where you didn't really replenish afterward. They did get Trent for Norm Powell. So that's something. But there's also, I think, the broader question of like the big wing experiment that they underwent. And Rob, I'm curious how you feel about this because this really is probably the most extreme example of a team trying to get like size players altogether. I guess like the death lineup warriors would be like that, but they didn't stay like that through.

throughout an entire game. Do you think this has any like broader implications about like team construction in this whole idea of like everyone is the same position now. We all want this type of guy. It certainly hasn't quite worked, right? Like I think we're all in agreement on that just based on where they find themselves now. And specifically like the lack of shooting, the lack of guard creation, like those things have been big problems, especially as Fred's game has winnowed off at various points in

this season. They just really miss that and they really need it. And they honestly really need rim protection some nights. They really need rebounding some nights. Like narrowing to that range of, you know, long, lanky forwards who have some ball skills and can do some things, it's paid off in certain ways. But I think ultimately has been a source of a lot of frustration. And we've seen it over the course this year in the quotes from the players, in the quotes

from Nick Nurse. And it's usually not direct. It's usually not calling out the construction of the team. It's about what my role is. It's about the positions I'm being put in. And it's not a coincidence. that every team that kind of pushes the boundary into more adventurous positional alignments,

they experience those things. This is the same reason why the seven seconds or less suns traded for Shaq. You hit certain roadblocks and you panic a little bit and you say, what if this weird thing we were trying isn't the way? What if we need to be more conventional? And a lot of that honestly starts at the player level.

It starts at looking around the lineup and thinking, like, why are we trying this weird thing when we have so many individually really good players who could fill these roles more traditionally if we had more of a classic point guard alongside us? Like, why don't we have that? Why don't we have a real big man on this team who we can rely on in the way that other teams rely on their bigs? And so you really have to have the stomach for this stuff. And it's very hard to keep everyone on the same page at the same time, especially when, as we're alluding to, you have young players like Scotty Barnes who are trying to, you know, come into their own and establish themselves.

You have guys who are going to be hitting free agency and want to prove what they can do every night that they hit the floor. It's hard to keep all of those kinds of motivations on the same page when you're trying something this different. Yeah, and this proves the ultimate point of the NBA is that none of this shit matters if you don't have a guy. And they don't have a guy.

So, like, you can be as cutesy and as creative and inventive as you want to be. You don't have a guy to anchor it. And so it doesn't matter. This isn't football where the 49ers could put Mr. Irrelevant into their lineup and damn, they make the Super Bowl. Like, it doesn't work like that in the NBA. You need a person, right?

Like, you need a guy to show up and kill people. I know that's not a very scientific term, but they don't have a killer as much as we love Pascal Seaccom. He's not a killer. And the reality is, for me, even with the inventive, whatever, you know, stuff that they were doing, their championship roster to me is the model of what you want in a team. They were so positionally diverse and could kill you with anything. They could be like, you know what?

We're going to start Pascal and Mark. You know what? This matchup dictates that Mark starts. This matchup dictates that surge starts. This matchup dictates that all three. redo it. Like, that's what you need when you're playing against the best competition. You need options.

But you also need a Kauai Leonard. You need one of the best players in the league to anchor what it is you're trying to do. And I think that's all this proves to me is that you can get as creative as you want, but it's not going to save you ultimately. What do we think is the closest NBA scenario to the Mr. Irrelevant situation? Is there anything even close? Is it like Rayfer Alston starting in the NBA finals? Is that the closest we ever gotten?

It's like Linsanity, damn there. That's about as close as we get. The NBA does have its own Mr. irrelevant. It's just the last pick of the second round. You know, I think that's Isaiah in terms of, in terms of them playing a meaningful role

in the development of a playoffs. I got you. Who was the guy in the NFL who was like a milkman who became like a punt returner at one point? Do you remember that? I was about to say, I was about to say Kurt Warner before you said, but returning.

Yeah, I think he was like a FedEx guy. The NFL has a lot of these guys. Egg and groceries. They told that, oh, my lord, they told that story about five million different times. That's a feature film, my friend. He's got a movie made out of it. Yeah.

So I think what you guys are describing here with the Raptors is a little bit more dire than, honestly, I was even going into it as, because if we're saying that they don't have the guy, I think that makes this even more tricky because you could rebuild folks. focused around a Siakum, or you can give Scotty Barnes a whack at it and see how that goes. But I almost feel like one of their primary issues is Winses, any mention of Scotty Barnes being

anything more than like a fourth option. Well, like, what do you do with those guys? Because I would say, to Rob's earlier point, them trying to fit Barnes into certain roles has been one of their issues this season where it's like, oh, we need him to play center, but he's not really a center. And he kind of got beasted on the boards against DeAndre 8 in the other night. Or like, we need him to play point guard tonight because Fred's out. And it's just like, is he a, you're like a primary ball handler? And if he's not those things like, and he's not like a catch and shoot shooter, like he's kind of like, I don't know, a low rents yak him down.

So it just becomes really confusing. Like, where do you start, I guess is the question. It's not confusing. Here's why. this idea that all of these guys would be great if they got some main cog in there. Here's why that matters. Yonis spurned them.

They did this already. They made themselves, you know, the potential pretty-ass bride and, you know, take me to the prom and I'll be your dancing partner. And they got spurned. And like, while in theory, that sounds great that they should be making their team

as attractive as possible for a potential superstar. In the meantime, you have to be this version of this team, which sucks. And it feels like you're going nowhere. And so at a certain point, you have to bust a move, Justin. And I think moving these pieces is their version of buss and a move. Like, all right, we're going to just try to find our next person some different way. Because even before Kauai, they drafted Demar de Rosen in the lottery. You know, Kyle Lowry was a great trade pickup and all of that.

But, like, De Rosen, who was the first guy to anchor these great 50-win teams, was a lottery pick. And he was, you know, that kind of potential, you know, star type of lead your team type of guy ultimately never materialized for them. But they had that. But they had to get into the lottery to get that kind of guy. We love Scotty Barnes. Sorry, Toronto. He's not the next Kawhi Leonard. I do.

I do love Scottie Barnes. I got a lot of love for Scottie Barnes' game, but he's clearly not this, you know, offensive hub. He's not going to be somebody who gets you efficient basketball just on the offensive side. And on defense, I think we kind of overstate what he does. At this point, they need to go out and find that guy. And I think trying to do it via, you know, the trade market

when it comes to, you know, the type of Donovan Mitchell or those kind of guys, they haven't been able to do it. And I think they might need to just go, like, all right, let's just draft our Anthony Edwards. Let's just go out and draft our next guy. I think it's pretty telling that, Justin, since you raised that question,

Fred Van Vleet's name has not come up. Like, he is not the answer. He's at a point in his career where he is going to start tipping in terms to, like, you know, post-athletic prime, he is undersized. He fights like hell. He works hard.

for what he does, but I'm just getting closer and closer to the place where it feels like Fred Van Fleet's going to be on a different team on the other side of the deadline. To me, he and Gary Trent are the most likely Raptors to move. You can modulate them in relation to one another, but for as fun as it is to discuss, like, which team needs OG and an Obie. To me, Fred, Fred is the obvious guy that you move on. You know, like, it's, it could be best for everybody. Fred can help a lot of contenders right now.

Certainly a couple of them in L.A. in specific. But it just feels like a no-brainer. Like he is not, he is not the answer. And I think there's reasonable cases to make that either Seacom or Barnes could be part of what that answer is going forward. But I don't think Fred is, unfortunately. Also, the thing that I like about trading Fred is that it makes them materially worse.

They now effectively have no point guard. And so they will not be able to win NBA basketball games. And so that's another thing that I like about the deal. You get something for Fred while, you know, improving your positioning in the draft sweet stakes. Right now they have the sixth highest lottery odds right now, Toronto does. Really? Wow. You know, a little bit of a push in that direction.

And you're right up in there. You're starting to get something pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Fred fits a lot of the contenders, as Rob suggested, in part because he's a ball handler who probably is best off playing off the ball, in crunch time. And so that's like the right balance you need on the clippers, on the Lakers. You could find a spot for him on the Sons. You could find a spot for them on pretty much every team. Again, it is weird that we keep saying all of these players would help all of these different

teams. So you might want to look at yourself with the Raptors and be like, hey, maybe we should hang on to these guys. But I ultimately agree with you guys on Fred. I do think ultimately, though, the tipping point is really OG because it sounds like every freaking day at this point, he has been in a new trade room or another contenders like, hey, maybe we should get this guy who can guard everyone and shoot 38% from 3.

Which is why I came up with the OG test, which is, are you an OG and an OB away from being very interesting? And I feel like that is the way to basically determine where you are in the NBA going into the deadline.

Is this podcast 1 OG away from being interesting, do you think? Do we just need to add him to our crew? Good. He won't need a lot of time, like, on the mic, because he is a spot-up podcaster. Yep. So he should fit in because we are very ball-dominant podcasters.

But no, I think this test is particularly interesting in regard to the New York Knickerbockers, the team who's now the hot new rumor for OG, Michael Grange of Sportsnet before we came on here, head of report suggesting. And what I think is kind of circulating around the league at this point, the Knicks are a team who would be willing to dig into the pick coffers in order to deal for Ananobe. And so I think that's a good like entry point to talk about the Knicks here, the next team on our list wise, like considering how well they've been playing of late,

considering how well the young guys have integrated themselves into a Ton Tibado team, are the Knicks now at the point where you could say, we should trade. for OG make the best of what we already have rather than chasing the dream of landing the next big star via trade. Are the Knicks as good as the Memphis Grizzlies

another very young, precocious team? Are they anywhere fucking close? But they are good. Are they as good as Cleveland was last year without Donovan Mitchell? I'd say thereabouts. No, no they're not. They might be as good as that.

I mean, that was basically a play-in team. Yeah, it was a playing team. Yeah. with a good defense and not enough offense. But, you know, a vast difference in young talent, right? That's what I'm trying to say. The roof on last year's team, like, as you're watching it, you can clearly see the roof getting higher,

the ceiling getting higher for what this team could be in the future. So they go out and, you know, expend resources on Donovan Mitchell. I just think that it's fucking laughable. that World Wide West and Leon Rose you know the star pipe pipers in chief these guys are the star magnets

we never have seen bigger star magnets than these guys in a front office and is Jalen Brunson and OG An An Anobie? Brunson's been good lately I'll say that. You can't be fucking serious I love Jalen Brunson

I actually I actually love what he has been able to bring to the NICs. I think he's one of my favorite kind of NBA players in the sense that if you showed a young guy who had potential and was like, yo, I might one day be able to play in the NBA. It's like, you need to study what this guy does because you're not going to do what Job Morant does

on a day-to-day basis. You need to study what Jalen Brunson does. I love him in his game. I love OG. in his game. The idea that these guys are going to go all in resource-wise on OG Ananoi to make this a team that has the ultimate potential of 47 wins is absurd. And the idea that you would do this because the young guys are finally finding themselves

rather than find a way to offload the people who don't fit with your young guys' talent is absurd to me. that's crazy to me. They're not an OG away. They're not. So they failed the OG test, is what you're saying. Yes. I think the glut of the East makes it really hard.

Like, I am much more optimistic about plugging an OG in trade constructions with the Knicks where they don't have to give out RJ Barrett. Like, if that's their lineup, Brunson and Barrett and OG and Randall and Mitchell Robinson when he's healthy and I guess Jericho Sims when he's not, you know, that's something. That is a formidable team. Hey, don't forget about grimes. That's what I'm saying. You actually probably have to sit crimes.

I like grimes, like quickly. Like they have good players. They have almost too many good players at this point. Wow. But I think you're right. Well, good is relative. Capable NBA players. The problem ultimately always comes back to Barrett and Randall.

I don't see a future where both of these guys exist on a very good team. And with Barrett, the issue is contractual, because he just signed an extension, which means he's on a poison pill contract for the year, which means that it's going to be incredibly difficult to try to trade him elsewhere. I actually tried to work a three-way in which he would. Because Randall's so hard to trade, I guess, would be the point.

Oh, so compound your stupidity of giving this guy a terrible deal by getting rid of, again, you know, RJ is, he's an OG type. of player, in my opinion, in the sense that he can play on any team. Okay? He's a big-ass wing who has skills. He's a skilled player. His jump shot isn't always falling, but guess what? He has ball handling.

He understands movement. He understands space. Like, he plays with a motor. This is a valuable asset. Why in the hell am I getting rid of R.J. Barrett so that I can make room. It would be the same idea that the Kings did by getting Sabonis, a player who was ostensibly and probably literally not as good of a player or talent as Tyrese Halliburton, but Sabonis makes more sense for that team.

The team clarifies its identity. They will not maybe have the same ceiling, but you become the defensive grinder, Jalen Brunson sort of team. And you see how that goes. I don't know. I'm on the fence on both of it, but I could at least see what's the first. We're trading, hold on, we're trading R.J. Barrett so we could see what type of team we become. I think you're a 50.

Julius Randall. You're like the four or five feet. Yeah. Bro, this is it like, look, what you're saying is not completely unreasonable. I'm just saying the Knicks as a concept, this is an indictment of those people in charge. Yeah. If this is what they bring to that city, after all of that shit talking, avoiding media, oh, we're the mafia, we don't talk.

You know, La Familiar, we don't talk. We don't got to talk. We just show up when we want because we just, we got these big ass nuts and we just deliver all of this crazy shit. And what y'all deliver is Julius Randall and OG and nobody? That's fucking crazy, dude. Man, they're going to get the facial recognition software out on you at MSG, man. I know.

I'm already, I'm not even going to buy. trying to go to Lavo. I won't even do it. Towers out of the question for me. It can't even happen. But Justin, I think you nailed it, like, all of that for a fourth or fifth seed. Like, if you're looking at this, if you're looking at this season in particular, you got Boston, you got Philly, you got Milwaukee, you got Cleveland, you got Brooklyn.

Even if you say you add OG Ananoi for nothing, no active player on the roster, only picks, effectively. Are you the fourth best team in that group? Like, is that your aspiration? I'm already sick of the Knicks chasing and lusting after their next great superstar. And I'm not even invested in it. And this is already like, what, the ninth chapter of this and it not working out. And so I'm just wondering, like, do you just become good rather than aspire to be great and keep chasing after the football that Lucy keeps pulling away? They are pretty good.

Like, they already are. You know, like, I, that's fair. Why do they need to be incrementally, like, barely better than this? Why is that a, why should that be a goal? And it's not, again, this is not the idea of just being like, oh, we bring in an OG for money that we have, cap space or whatever. We're bringing an OG at the expense of getting rid of things that can be the centerpieces for somebody that is vastly better. Oh, well, I think it's mostly a picked thing. I think you keep most of the good young guys and you give away like one or two of them.

So I don't know. I can see it both ways, honestly. The argument for, like, if you're really going down this road and thinking about how OG would change your team, it's not just that he streamlines what you do. And, you know, it's another guy who you can kind of plug into the corners, which I think is maybe oversimplifying OG's impact a little bit. Like part of the reason it's been awkward in Toronto, he's a guy who does want to do stuff. Like he does want to attack with the ball. But when you think about what he does for the rest of your team,

it's about the ripple effects of that. It's about if we have O.G. and Anobi, Mitchell Robinson probably fouls less. Like, RJ Barrett's workload can be more tilted offensively because he doesn't have to guard high-value offensive players as often. You know, maybe we take out some of the Quentin Grimes minutes. Maybe we are boosting those, as you mentioned, Justin. Maybe with Julius Randall, you're controlling his matchups a little more.

and in the second unit, maybe you're playing more small ball, maybe you have more size on the wing, however you want to lay that out, there are ways it would make them tangibly better. It's just not enough. Like, it's just not enough to be trading

potentially three first round picks for it. I love you guys for intellectually giving this the time of day. Or at least Rob is, yeah. We got to kick some tires. We just in the off season was like, bring it in Donovan Mitchell don't make this team good enough. Donovan Mitchell.

We just said that. But young guys happened better than we ever thought. Like Grimes was a joke going into the season. Yeah. Grimes was like being talked about in Scotty Barnes can't trade for KD territory. Listen, we were at Summer League. You weren't Justin.

Quentin Grimes was busting ass in Summer League. Las Vegas legend, Quentin Grant. He was incredible. I'm not going to lie. I drink a lot. You watch your mouth, Justin. I take a lot of... He is not a skittishvili.

He is that actual NBA player. No, like, we just said Donovan Mitchell, you know what? Giving up four picks into the future, all kinds of ridiculous pick swabs, all kinds of craziness. It didn't make sense to do it for Donovan Mitchell. Who is, like, he is just so much better than OG An Anobie. So the idea that you would pass on that. and now do functionally the same trade

when it comes to and do you believe in Leon Rose's ability to negotiate with Masayu Jerry? I mean, give me a break. Like the idea that you're going to literally give up stuff in the future. Assets. And I'm never asset guy,

especially when it comes to getting in great players. And I love OG. He's not going to do anything for this team. Man. Are the Knicks even allowed to negotiate with the Raptors in general? Like, I feel like there's a post-Barniani, Jim Dolan, band. Like, they don't even take the calls in the building. Yeah.

Right. And then Maasai was the one that did the mellow trade to him. Oh, Lord of mercy. It's true. Just do something. I'm sick of waiting for the Knicks. It's just like either sign the big superstar, trade for the big superstar, or just be good. Or how about this?

Pay something that isn't R.J. Barrett to get off of Julius Randall's deal. I like that. Pay for it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like pay for it. Like give up something meaningful.

That isn't a future unprotected first. Yeah. You know, like how about just pay for your mistakes and move on in a direction that makes sense? And by the way, you're still going to be eligible for the big superstar deal. But make your roster. make more sense. Like making this team be all it can be? What the fuck?

Like, what? Why? Let's move along now. A team maybe in a similar position, but just on a different scale. The Golden State Warriors, because they find themselves, oddly enough,

in fifth in the Western Conference, as we record this podcast, despite being only two guys, games over 500. So it is highly possible that the Warriors don't do anything in considering just how garbled up the Western Conference standings are at this point. They could probably find themselves with Home Corps advantage by doing absolutely nothing, not worrying about all the kids and how disappointing they've been and still be fine. But I think you need to ask yourself, uh, and heading into the deadline, whether or not they should do something. And I feel like there

another team for the OG test. Is this a team, Rob, where you would give up on virtually all of the young kids? So I'm talking Wiseman. I'm talking Kaminka. I'm talking Moody. And whatever picks you need to get it done. And would you bring in

OG and Anobi, complete the death lineup and now be closing games. Just I want you to hear this lineup because of how sweet it is. Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins, OG and Anobie, Dremont Green. that is now what you're closing games with

are you turned on right now because I am a little bit I'd pack their bags I'd drive them to the airport I would give James Wiseman a handshake and a pat on the back and say see you down the road buddy like if that's Rob is Rob is hand washing their underwear whatever it takes

should we call it in right now look if the Raptors are down for that and I don't really see why they would be get them on the phone right now but I do want to quibble with something you said, Justin, which is that the Warriors, like, them being in a position where we don't know if they should make a deal, they need to make a deal. Yeah, right? It's just a question of scale with that deal. It is, but it's also historically they do not make deals.

They like have a long track record Bob Myers does. We'll see if Bob Myers lasts to the deadline himself. But they typically do not make deadline trade. So it would be a change of pace for them. But I agree. They probably need some adults in the room. But on the other hand, like it probably takes a kid or two from your precious young core that your owner who is bankrolling this like $90,000 million team is.

is going to have to sign up on. How precious is that core, though? That's the thing. To Lake up, I would say it's way more precious than we would think it is. Like, this is the thing about young players. Like, I do want to embrace a world of infinite potential, right? Like, I would love to think that James Wiseman is capable

of being an all-star level player someday that he's capable of fulfilling everything he had ever hoped for himself. I want to believe those things. To throw a little cold water on it, if the deal is what you said, Justin. wiseman and Coominga and Moody for O.G. and Anobey. The odds are that none of those three players will be as good as O.G. Ananovia is right now. And I say that as someone who thinks O.G. is very good, but not really a star.

And that's what we're kind of projecting for these three guys. Weisman is a huge question mark that could go from, again, all-star potential to can't really play in the league. Like, that is his range right now. Moses Moody, I think, has a pretty narrow range. It's probably going to be a decent NBA role player, but needs a lot of. of time, even more time than we would have guessed a year ago. Jonathan Cumminga's probably the guy who could come closest to OG's level. Hell yeah.

But is also kind of a project in himself. And I think most crucially, Jonathan Cumminga thinks he is at Paul George's level, which is a bit of a problem. Sure. It's a bit of a problem on this, on the iteration of this team that currently exist. I think you mentioned it. They never do this kind of thing at the deadline. But, you know, what's complicating this is Bob Myers is agitating in the media.

And to be fair, shouts to my man, Marcus Thompson, Tony Slater at the Athletic. They recently put out a very comprehensive Bob Myers piece about the status of his contract with the Warriors, why he might want to move on, why he's so valuable to what they do. you wonder, you know, if that guy still has the owner's ear, if he's agitating for a deal in the media. Not to say that he, you know, he himself put the Myers, you know, story in motion at the athletic. That's not what I'm saying, but it's like,

if stories are coming out about your deal, and the only people that stand to benefit from that story coming out is not the organization, I have to think it's from you. And your camp. So if these are the tactics that he has to take to get a new deal after four freaking championships, you know, you wonder,

does he even have the cachet with his owner to be like, yo, I know you love these kids and you think this is what's going to make you a legend, you know, like, oh, I didn't just do it with Steph Curry and Clay Thompson.

I did it with X, Y, and Z. This team is not going to win without, improvement, you know. And so that's what I think is kind of holding this thing up. It's like, is Bob Myers even in a position to swing a big-ass deadline deal? When every deadline deal for the Warriors is big-ass financially, right? Like that's what's tempering all of this movement. And part of the reason why, you know, Slater's been on record as reporting that all three

of those young guys are likely to be on the roster past the deadline is making anything work where you take on money, it is punitive. Like, it does have serious financial implications, which, by the way, is the CBA and the luxury tax working as intended? Like, that is the way this stuff is supposed to work. By the way, working as Lakeup and his cohort intended. You know. This wasn't something that the players negotiated for. They was crying about this.

Yeah. And I do think it's also a question which of those young guys you're willing to part with at this point. Like, maybe they do swing a trade where they get rid of one of them. Maybe Moody is the most likely just because he is a shooter, so there's some value there. And, like, they have other guys who could fill that boy. Even Dante DiVincenzo isn't an older player. Like, he could just be looped into this young core in air quotes and we could just move along. He's too important to move.

Like, Devinchenzo is essential personnel for the Warriors right now. Well, I think that brings me to my next point, whereas, like, yeah, I could see a Moody trade bringing like a PJ Washington, a guy who's like a younger vet. And, like, maybe that satisfies both things, right? I'm increasingly wondering if Jordan Poole is the guy that probably makes the most sense to get rid of. I don't know if we're big fans here. We're not really celebrating at the pool party. But to me, it always comes back to he seems to be most comfortable in the starting lineup doing his Steph Curry impression rather than coming off the bench. And I think once we get into playoff scenarios, we'll be right back to where we were late in last year's postseason where it's like they're going to be skittish about.

putting him in there because they can't trust him on defense. And honestly, if you think about it, he probably has the most value league-wide at this point. So out of all of this, I might be trying to use him as someone who can get me the last piece of this death lineup. And I almost wonder if like you're calling the Raptors like, hey, are you guys interested in writing the pool experience out for us? That feels like something that could work. Let me tell you, Nick Nurse is not. Let me tell you. I have a question to post. issue. You guys, what is the line between, quote, unquote, cost prohibitive and player control?

And where does Jordan Poole fall on that line as a young guy, right? Where it's like, well, he's already been paid and it's a hefty price. Or for certain young guys, it's like, you got player control. You got four years of player control. Like, where does Jordan Poole fall on that continuum? I think he fell into the shit hit the fan and we had to pay him part of the... It's kind of an offshoot of the continuum.

No, I think he's getting paid probably his market value. Like if he had just hit... So then he's playing control then. So he should be a valuable asset if that's the case. I would love to see Jordan Poole just like kind of roam and do his thing for a season on a team that didn't have expectations just to get a clear sense of what he is. I think ultimately he'll probably knit out to be what we,

what he's been for this Warriors team, which is like, yeah, he's a good score. Maybe you could win 45 games with him as your first or second best player, but isn't like a superstar in the way that I think a lot of people jumped to that conclusion last season. But like, ultimately, I don't think we know at this point.

He feels destined for whatever the future version of Twitter is when people are saying, like, people forget Jordan Poole could hoop with huffing emojis and like a highlight reel of him. from, you know, when he plays for the Pistons in four years and it's like putting up a lot of points. He feels kind of destined for that for me. That's not to say he couldn't be what he was for the Warriors,

which is a really good player in a supporting role. I just like him better as that. Like I like him in confines, in system, like playing a part of a team versus having the ball in his hands. And that's the problem to your point was about like, where does he fall on that continuum of what is his salary and what do his contract actually mean? he's being paid like a guy who you want to put the ball in his hands all the time.

And I'm not sure he's quite that. Yeah. I would like to see him in Toronto specifically, though, because there is a system that has all these defensive grinders. And like, as we saw it in Golden State, he's at his best when he's gunning surrounded by like the optimal context. He's not at his best when he's guarding anybody. No, exactly.

If he is the guy that isn't guarding anyone, I think you're in a good spot. But this is also a bigger question, no? He's not getting traded this year, or at least this deadline. He's not. He's also on a poison pill, so it would have to be in the offseason. But I think, like, if we're thinking about this big picture, I would be looking to move him rather than some of these other pieces who could be role players I work in seamlessly while still riding out the Curry, Clay, Draymon experience. Well, they just need more of those role players they can work in seamlessly. Like whatever their goals are, this deadline, to me, it's not swinging for a star. It's like, can we get a guy in here who we can trust. to play 28 minutes in a playoff game, please? Can we get Yaquah Pertel in this building? Can we get...

I've heard the Jalen McDaniels rumors. I don't really get that from Charlotte's perspective, but if that guy's available, get him, like there are candidates here. Yeah. Well, speaking of a team that needs as many role players as it could possibly get its hand on, let's talk about the Lakers. A team that I feel like we would have expected

to be talking about way more heading into the deadline, but it seems eerily quiet on the Rob Polinka front, in part probably because they made the Hachimura trade, in part because they are now 13th in the Western Conference, battling not only the teams in front of them, but also the referees who are just don't want to see the small market Lakers have their day in the sun. They're losing sleep over it, though.

There's so many sleepless nights from these missed calls. Right. LeBron has basically become Casey Affleck and Manchester by the sea. He's just torn to pieces over this injustice. No, but, but, I guess the question is if this deadline comes and goes without the Lakers making a big swing, how will you feel about it? Because it seems like that's where we're headed. I would feel like this is the single first instance of Rob Polinka GMing in the history of his job.

that's what I would feel. So you're pro, no deal. Yes, I've been pro no deal. I really do think sometimes you've got to eat your medicine. And even if it means we're wasting LeBron's prime. Bro, he bought the break of scoring record. He's won four NBA championships, Olympic gold medals, 20 all-star team. Like, what's been wasted?

His career is what it is. What's another year? Like, I'm sorry, we don't have to treat this. Like, precious, his career hasn't. been wasted. This man has had an incredible career. So yeah, LeBron was part of you making this roster as horrible as you made it. And so doing this sort of on the margins, try to see if LeBron and his magic could coax out whatever it is that Rue Hachamora has in him, that's the kind of deal you make. You do not swing for the fences. You do not give up more future assets.

You don't do that to make this team, you know, a seventh seed. That's crazy to me. I think what they're doing is right. Braun, AD, get your asses on the court, carry this team, make it hard for teams in the playoffs that play against you, and in the offseason, we can make our team way better. And the NBA is telling us without telling us that the Lakers' time to make a big move is over. Case in point, Miles Turner's extension, like gone, yep.

that situation evolving in the way it did for what was basically the most logical and reasonable Russell Westbrook trade destination on the board definitely changed the complexion of that. Also trading for Ruri Hachamura, several second round picks to complete that deal changes because once you make that deal, Bouillon Bogdanovich makes less sense.

John Collins makes less sense. All these guys who would be competing. I think you're asking a lot of guys to compete for minutes at the four at that point. You don't think you could play A.D. Bowion, Rui, LeBron. Too slow? Too old. Who you guard? Well, Russ at the one, obviously, is going to be your defensive pit bull as Darvin Ham said coming into the season. I mean, I don't feel great about, like, I think Boion's a pretty competitive defender.

I don't feel great about him, like, locking and trailing the elite shooters at the two. You know, like, that doesn't seem great. I think the issue is, like, even during that Celtics game, it feels like they still all. are just like one player away from being pretty good. I don't think they'll be great this season. But like even in that overtime you saw like Russ was playing and he kind of shot them in the foot. And if they just had someone reliable to soak up those minutes, they have enough reliable players at this point that they could be pretty competitive.

And so like I would still want for them like a boy on type trade. If that's as far as they're willing to go because like you just, I think he'll be a better team now and even in two seasons, right? But I don't know if we're going to get it in part because, like, I also think any trade you're making is also going to take away useful players, because if you're not going to trade Russell Westbrook, he of the 40-something million dollar contract, you have to trade Pat Beverly, who is one of those useful players, or you have to trade Lonnie Walker, who is ostensibly a rotation player at this point, probably has fallen off since earlier in the season.

But, like, I think it's really becoming different. now. They got to pay the price for trading for this guy with two years left on his deal. You have to pay the price for acquiring a dude. And again, this doesn't get said enough. They ended Russ as-star idea in the playoffs in the bubble. They showed you how you play Russell Westbrook in a playoff series. Ignore him. The Lakers did that to Houston and pants that team.

And then they went and traded for him. These, like, you got to, you did the crime. You got to do the time. I'm sorry. Like, just, and it's going to be a legendary day when that deal finally washes off of their books.

And then they resign him? Yeah. Literally $50 million. But like, man, I, I like the Rui deal because it starts to go in the direction of things that makes sense. A guy that can play next to LeBron and AD, and if he has it in his mind that he will be a junkyard dog, lunchpail kind of guy, guard the hell everybody on switches, try to use his frame the hole up in the post when he's holding,

when he's guarding bigger guys, maybe every now and again be asked to drain a wide open shot, you know, like take the chance that he maybe becomes the person that does that. He has the profile of somebody who can, right? So you take that chance. Trying to swing some major deal and attach a rust to it. It's just, it's too much. When, you know, July is just not that far.

Rui has been pretty interesting in these first couple games with them. And I think mostly not the parts you would think, right? Like Rui's game to this point, I think the most impressive part. of his game in his best games has been his capacity to create and hit mid-range shots for the most part. That's going to come and go and Lakers fans are going to learn very quickly

about what happens when it goes. But in some of these games, he's getting out on the break. Like he's running the floor, he's leaking out, he's contesting hard and running. And when you have a guy who's that big and that athletic in those situations, that's pretty exciting.

The rest of it I'm less excited about and that's where we'll kind of see when things really hit the fan for him, like where the dust settles and how valuable he is, but it's been a nice little open as a Laker for Rui Hachamura. Somehow I think he has three total assists

in four games, which does that shock you? No, it's just, I think I thought he was a little bit more athletic or maybe quick would be the more accurate term than he actually is. He's just like he's big. He moves well for his size,

but he is mostly just big. Yeah. And so I guess in that, case, like if he could be a four who hits the occasional corner three, like he's fine. I think it fits basically. Why can't he be 75% of what Kuzma gave them when they were good? Why can't he do that? He would have to dedicate himself to it.

Yeah. You know, the occasional shock creation, the, you know, brick class in case of emergency, isolation type of stuff. Yeah, like, you don't have to do that all the time. but accept your role as somebody who is, you know, sort of on the periphery of the main thing that's happening with the team, which is LeBron and A.D., you know. Again, he's a player who makes sense.

He's sensible on this team rather than, you know, things that they've already done. And again, they're going to insist on playing Russ. And to be fair to Russ, he's been better than we expected him to be this year for the team, which is a very low bar to clear because we expected him to not be an NBA player functionally. But yeah, committing serious resources to making this team slightly better is super to me.

Okay, they've done the crime. They're doing the time. Can we at least get visitation from Gary Trent Jr.? Like is that an option? You know, like just one more shooter in the door, you know, a notable but not necessarily major. move is something like that doable. So you want to give them 2027 for that?

I don't say that necessarily. Maybe throw some protections on that thing. So you would say Trent for them more than Fred VanVille, for instance. Fred's going to take way more. Yeah, I don't know what the pricing is on Fred at this point.

I'm not going to lie if the Lakers committed future assets and could tie Russ into a Van Vlitte deal, I would be really interested in the team that they became. Like, they would start to get me interested in what they were doing.

I guess you could, in theory, get like a fad young out of that because you would have to add two to three more players to Fred to get to Russ's number. That might be more interesting. If only you had like capable bodies to fill out the rest of the rotation,

I don't know if they need another big, but maybe. we'll see. All right, I guess on the other end of the Lakers spectrum is New Orleans Pelicans who have control of their entire future. So it hasn't gone well for our friends in New Orleans. Nine trade losses after last night's defeat, three and thirteen since the start of the new year. They are now absolutely 500, 10th in the West. Honestly, they could probably do anything at the trade deadline, considering the amount of assets they have.

think the question is should they do anything one because the luxury tax becomes an issue starting next season uh they have three max contracts essentially on the books and have all these young guys coming up through the pipeline that will presumably have to get paid at some point and then two are the injuries which has been their biggest issue this far thus far ingram was out a while he's back on the court you can see the difference with him in in the lineup zion is still at least two weeks away from getting back out there. We'll see when that happens. And so, Rob, I guess, like,

if you were running the Pelicans at this point, are you pushing right now, or are you in more weight-and-see mode? Here's the tough part. Like, their window is between now and the 2024 draft. They need to make some kind of consolidation. That's when the extra picks start rolling in the door,

the things that aren't just like straight pick swaps. You have lots of young players coming in. You already have a full roster. you need to start making decisions on who's actually going to be on your roster. If there were a deal in the air right now that felt like a no-brainer fit, then I think it makes all the sense

in the world to chase after it. The problem is that the guys who are being linked to the pelicans right now are guys like John Collins, who's like, I don't really know how he and Zion fit defensively. It's guys like Malik Beasley, who, as we've discussed on previous podcast,

is a shooter who doesn't always shoot that well. Rob, can your two best play? players be on the court with John Collins? How about can your two best players be on the court? At all. Let's start there. And honestly, that might be the motivating factor for me, if I'm making decisions for the Pelicans, that would motivate a deal.

We talk all the time about the fit between Zion and Ingram. Like, what are they to each other? How can they coexist? We've seen some very promising things from them in small bursts. The reality is this is Brandon Ingram's seventh season in the NBA. he's only played two seasons in which he hasn't missed at least 20 games with injury

and he is the least of their star injury concerns I think you start you need to start thinking of the Pelicans about like who are the guys we can bring in now or long term who are going to help us survive months like this one

where the Pelicans like whatever pixie dust was keeping them alive earlier in the season through all their injuries is gone the juice from that stuff is gone and they're starting to really show the absences

and even getting Ingram back lately just haven't quite been able to quite get up to the level that they need to. So it's tough. I think they probably lean conservative at the moment just because there isn't that like no-brainer option, just a player who's such a seamless fit, but the time is going to start running out really soon.

Like they do have a pretty definite timetable where they have to do something. Yep. Yeah, I'm like, surprise actually. I guess maybe it's just your dislike of Beasley, but to me, Beasley is like the type of player that they should be trying to swing for because he hits that in between zone where it's like, we have a lot of guys just hanging around who are moderately valuable, not doing anything. I think Jackson Hayes, a guy that they probably don't want to bring back. Like, maybe you give him away.

Well, I mean, you give a team like half a season to let him play through whatever he could be and get a glimpse at him. Naji Marshall is a guy because they have all of these wings who are also good shooters and honestly they can't play them all. And Marshall for some reason has become the type of guy who's like always too good to keep off of the bench. But you know, he's probably more of a developmental guy, not much of a shooter. Maybe he's the type of guy you give up for a Beasley, improve the Devante Graham Minutes, a guy who probably can't play in the playoffs because he's too small and isn't shooting well. And like that is like the marginal upgrade you do to like maybe give yourself a little bit more margin of of error here.

Genuine question. Yeah. What is your level of certainty that Malik Beasley is a better player than Najee Marshall right now? I think Malik Beasley can shoot. I don't know where you get this idea that like objectively he shoots well at volume. Yeah. He's okay. Like he's incredible.

You think Malik Beasley's an okay shooter? I think he is an incredible. I think he is a streaky person, a streaky shooter. to a degree that is deceptive in his percentages. Like he is a, to me, he is a front-running shooter. And I don't mean that as like, there's anything wrong with him personally. It's just like he goes well when the team is going well.

And when the team isn't going well, he's not giving you much at all. But you don't need him if you trade for him too. Like, if he's not shooting well, just sit him and play Trey Murphy more. Then why are we trading for him? Like, Najee Marshall is a big physical defender who drives well, who competes.

like I like what he brings to our team. Why am I giving up that and more for a guy who I don't really like not only I do not trust all of his previous teams have not trusted. There's a reason Malik Beasley is where he is, which is getting dumped onto the Utah jazz and not that prominent

part of their plan. I think that's been detrimental to Minnesota though, to be honest. They actually could desperately use what he brought to, well, the Minnesota deal was actually terrible. But I'm just saying like, I understand. And especially if Zion and Brandon Ingram are going to be these ball dominant,

not quick decision-making kind of guys. I understand why Justin would be intrigued by Beasley. I just think they got to get healthy. And it's just so crazy how these things turn where, like, you know, we're a month into the season. And I'm somebody who's like, yo, this team has serious contending talent, even in the, you know, especially in the West, the Lakers are about to give the number one pick.

Oh my God, this is incredible to where we're at now where the Lakers are looking like, yo, they're probably going to make a play in and fight for it seriously and, you know, end up giving up a 14th, 15th pick and the Pelicans are now 29 and 29. That's just crazy how fast the directions can change the wins anyway in the NBA.

Yeah, it's crazy. crazy if they do bottom out and maybe they can't get back on top of this thing, like actually having another lottery pick might actually be to their detriment because they already have a collection of young guys that they're bringing along slowly. Like, I don't know how many more. By the way, a collection of young guys who are first round 15 pick level of talents, too. Right.

You know, so like bringing in more of those guys doesn't help you. Yeah. So I can see them going pretty much any day. direction. I could see them trying to swing a big deal for an OG type. I could see them doing nothing. I could see them maybe doing something on the margins here. They're definitely probably the biggest wildcard going into the deadline. They are in a position though, you know, as we mentioned, like the fits aren't great in terms of the names that are out there. But like if John Collins is available for quarters on the dollar, maybe you just take the swing anyway, right? Like the reporting

is that Atlanta is asking like less and less in potential discussions involving Collins. If there's a way you can get in and out of that trade without giving up a lot in terms of your young player base, then maybe you just throw it into the mix and see if it works. Yeah, I think the tax becomes an issue there. Like, I believe the Pelicans are one of maybe two teams or maybe it's just them who have never paid the luxury tax. And I think that's where the, uh, the CJ McCollum extension probably comes into play. On the one hand, like, I don't think they're even 500 without CJ kind of booing them,

uh, over the course of this season. On the other hand, like, I don't know if you really want to be paying in the 30s for a who... On the other hand, Zion's still on his first deal. Like, why did they need to be this sort of win-now type of mindset organizationally, you know? Yeah. If they're not, Zion's first deal comes and goes really quickly, you know? He's out the door before you know it. That's true.

All right. Why don't we wrap it there? Next week, we'll be back, hopefully with actual trades to discuss. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo. for helping out here. We'll be back next week. See you.