The Ringer NBA Show - The MVP Race, and Where Does LeBron Fall on the All-Time Lakers List? | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Logan is joined by veteran sports journalist and Northwestern’s Director of Sports Journalism, J.A Adande, to discuss who they think has the greatest chance at winning MVP this season (02:00). Later, the guys discuss LeBron making history as the first player to score 40,000 points, and what it means in the context of being a Laker (34:00). Email us questions for Mailbag Monday! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Logan Murdock Guest: J.A Adande Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have new shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackauer to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. join us on the press box.

It's popping, Real Ones, Logan Murdoch here, no Howard or Raja. So I got a legend anyway. We got Mr. J.A. Adande. How you doing, buddy? It's been a long time no seat. I'm good. Is this your first time on Ruins?

This is the first time we got you to build it? I can't remember if I did one or not before. It might be the first one. Okay. Well, it's an honor nonetheless to have you all. You got to go through the archives. Yeah. Yeah, we're going on four years right now.

You might have snuck in there, but I think this might be your first time. In any case, I've been wanting to have a discussion with you for a long time. And I think we're coming on a great stretch right now because we're going into, what won the dog days of the season, but other one of these things, we're starting to get awards, awards campaign starting to show for the MVP, the coach of the year, the rookie of the year. I want to start with the MVP first and just how we come to pick MVP's. And you have been a voter during your illustrious career.

How do you go into this stage of the season when we have the yokets of the world, the St. Gilgis, Alexander's of the world, and you're trying to get all your ballots together. You're trying to get all these things done. How do you go into this voting process on how you try to end up picking your vote for the MVP? For one thing, you have to see how it plays out, right? You can't just be determined in your mind. Like, oh, this guy's the MVP.

Well, things are subject to change. I mean, right now there's a half game difference between, you know, the top two teams in the Western Conference. Yeah, as we record this, top three teams, actually, are all within a half game of each other. So, you know, to try to think that we have an answer here in early March, it's way premature. You know, you have to wait for someone to. And if you give it time, someone will assert themselves. someone will kind of have that definitive moment in which they put their stamp on it. I remember in 2015, I was leaning toward James Harden most of the way.

And then there was a late season game on TNT. I want to say it was Warriors versus the Rockets. But I know the Warriors had a TNT game. And Steph just performed. And to me, at that moment, he sort of crystallized it and finalized it. You know, he got my boat. Obviously, it wasn't based off that one performance, but, you know, you want to give people an opportunity when all eyes are on you and see what they do. Russell Westbrook, the year he won.

And he kind of snatched my vote. He had that 50-point game at Denver. He makes, like, a half-court three to send it into overtime or to win the game. So win the game, and I think it was to secure the triple-double that year, too, is why to secure the average of a triple-double, yeah. So, I mean, it was just, you know, that kind of capstone to a season. But to me, I went back that year and the start of the season was really important that year. Like that came near the end of the season. But to me, the start of the year that year, they, you know, they lost a rant.

And he just made it clear, we ain't going anywhere. Without Kevin Durant, I don't care. We're not going anywhere. I'm coming out. If it takes me getting a triple double every night, we're staying in the mix. and in some ways he violated my main criteria for voting for most valuable player. To me, it's the player who has done the most to put his team in position to win a championship. Obviously, you can't clinch a championship during the regular season, but you can position your team by A, getting, putting them in the playoffs and B, giving them a high seed, preferably home court advantage throughout the playoffs.

And you're putting your team in position to win a championship that way. Russell Westbrook didn't. He was the lowest-seated player to win an MVP at that point since Moses Malone in the early 80s. When Moses was his most dominant, the Rockets were, you know, six, seven, eight-sees, something like that. The Thunder were a low-seated team, so they really weren't in position to win a championship. But they had, they at least had a shot at it thanks to Russell Westbrook. And that year, I kind of went against part of my car. code just because I thought he had done so much from the get-go to keep his team in contention.

So that's kind of my criteria. That's what I look at that explains some of my votes in the past. Well, it's interesting you say that, right? Because the argument that you're saying right now is the player that may not have had the best team, but the player that defined that NBA season, right? And I think that that's what... Well, not necessarily. I mean, like, you know, there was used, like to me,

Kobe wasn't MVP when his team was the eighth seed, even though he was, you know, scoring 81 points and doing all kinds of other crazy things. Like we look back on those regular seasons. We think of those Kobe moments. There's a statue to one of those Kobe moments outside the crypto.com arena now. But, you know, that didn't make him the MVP, even if it was the most memorable aspect of those seasons because those teams were getting nowhere near the championship, right? Those teams were not getting out of the first round. of the playoffs. You know, to me, you have to do more. And, you know, that next season, I think it was when he did win the MVP or maybe there's two seasons after that, you know, the Lakers were in the discussion.

The whole year part of it was because he started the season wanting to be traded. But not only did he define that season, he helped put his team in the mix for the championship. And he also had a signature game that year, right, where he took the one, the games that you talked about with Steph in 2015. Kobe had a similar one down the stretch of that season against Chris Paul, who was, it seemed like at a point in time around this time of the season, it was a neck and neck battle between him and Chris Paul.

I think it was a home game the Lakers had against the, I think it was the Pelicans or the Hornets at that point. Yeah, Chris Paul was very adamant. He never played for the Pelicans. Yeah. I used to wear Pelicans gear. So when the Pelicans first came out, you know, I never like to wear team gear

when I was covering the NBA. I didn't want to show favoritism toward any team. So I didn't wear any team games. I made an exception for the Pelicans because they weren't not playing as the Pelicans yet. So when they released the gear, but the team was still the Hornets, but I kind of like the Pelicans gear.

I kind of like that dark blue. I like the logo. So I'm like, I'm sports and Pelicans gear until they actually start playing as the Pelicans. And I wore it to a Clippers practice one time. Chris Paul was like, who's that team? I'm like, that's your old team, man.

He's like, I didn't play by the Pelicans. So it was definitely the hornets when Chris Paul played there. Yeah. So the hornets are down the stretch and it goes down to that last game. And Kobe, a lot of people during that time period said that he won the MVP that night when he, I think they beat him by something like 20 points. He had the dunk. It was an actual moment of that game. When you look at this MVP race, and it's still fluctuating right now, right, where Shay is coming on right now.

I was at the game when he had 32, 16, and 16, like that last, that one of those signature games that we talk about. But this season is kind of taken all in a life of his own, right? Because like, Embedd is the frontrunner for most of the season, then gets injured. And have you ever seen one of those types of seasons where there's a guy that's a clear-cut guy throughout the season? And then he gets injured and it just basically derails all of his MVP stature within the league. Like, how do you see this playing out right now? Yeah, it's very unique. And it could be the best case for waiting, right?

Because, you know, if Shea does it, you know, no one saw this coming even a month ago, right? We weren't really talking about him, but he just stayed around. I will say you could take it back to the start of the season, actually. Maybe the moment, like the individual game that stands out to me that he played was actually open at night. He was here in Chicago, the Thunder versus the Bull. I was at that game and the first 30 minutes of the game

it was just kind of a toss-up. And then we're getting midway through the third quarter, late in the third quarter, I remember thinking, okay, this game is here for the taking. Let's see who wants to take it. As it turned out,

Shagya-Gos-Alexander took it. He was like, I feel like he scored or assisted on like 13 straight points or something like that. Right? He just, the game was there for the taking and Shagy-Gelgus Alexander took it.

And I just kind of followed, it away like, okay, he and the Thunder are taking the next step. That was one of the big questions coming into the year, right? Are they ready to take the next step? And he showed that night. There was something, I just saw a stat, like, he scored over 30, 40 plus times already this season. I forget the specific number, but I saw that. I was like, whoa. You know, he's just, you can count on him going for 30, basically. He's done it again and again and again. And that's something. You know, first and foremost, he's got to get points. And he's telling he can consistently get you buckets.

You wonder, Logo, I don't know if you deduct for the fact that he's got Chet there, both kind of backing them up defensively and supporting him and giving them another offensive threat. So, you know, you look at the boost, the difference between last year in which they were a playing team, fringe playoff to this year, they could wind up with the number one seed. And do you want to credit Shay with that? or do you want to credit the arrival, the delayed arrival of Jet HomeGrid? Or do you want to credit Coach Dags, right? We talked about this on the Fandle show I was on last week, where I think that Shea has a great case.

He's averaging over 30. He's averaging only things. But I think that he's going to get dinged a lot because of how his team has done. And you see that in a lot of years, right? And I think that even down the stretch of this season, I think he's going to get, unless he has those, a few more games like he did last night, But I think overall, I think that credit is going to go to the coach and the coaching staff for making the team and helping the team elevate to that next step as opposed to Chet. And Chet is another thing, right, where you talk about he's, he is, it's the classic rookie. Do you want to get the, do you want to get the deep postseason success and have the great team?

Or do you want to be women yama who has a great stats and the great, in the great games? Chet is kind of in the middle of that, right? where he's, he is a guy that is having this team success. But I think he would take that over the rookie of the year, right? As you go, as you see that, right? He seems like a guy that would want that more. And I differentiate between rookie of the year. When I was voting for rookie of the year, I really didn't take team performance into account.

It's almost asking too much for a rookie to come in. You know, there's a reason that team had the number one pick, right? Or that team was in the lottery. They weren't a very good team. So expect a guy to come in, especially as rookies have got. younger over the years. Now we're a year out of high school, as opposed to the three years out of high school. To expect a rookie to come in and really impact winning and to really turn them into a

playoff contender right away, I don't really think that's reasonable expectations. So I don't look at team performance. To me, the rookie of the year is strictly individual statistics and how are they adjusting to the league, how are they performing in a league, not necessarily what type of impact are they making on winning. So, you know, that would allow Wimbanyama to me to get the rookie of the year ahead of Chad, even though Chet's team is obviously doing much better. I always wanted to know this.

I'm just going to just, this episode is just going to be asking you periodically about stories from your time, as I do every time we talk to each other. One of the things that I was thinking about going into when we knew you were coming on was Shaq's 19, or Sachs 1999-2000 year, where he, won the MVP. And I just, I was a kid at that point. You were I was in the locker rooms. Like, how much are these guys during those times angling for MVP?

They do it on the court, but what's the behind the scenes on how they tried to angle like, yo, man, AJ, you saw that game. You know what I'm doing. Like, after the, after I scored 60 against the clippers, you know, I'm supposed to be at the top. Like, how do these players angle you when they know you have a vote? And like, because I know the teams do it. How do the players do it?

Yeah. I don't think I had a vote that year. So he didn't lobby, you know, he didn't try to get me to write anything to. So that was Shaq's no-nonsense season. It was the first year of Phil Jackson and, you know, Shaq had been bouncing in playoffs, notoriously had been swept again and again and again, right? They get swept again in 99. I think in 98, they went out in five to the jazz.

but like all of Shaq's other playoff departures have been sweeps. And so in 99, they get embarrassed. And Shaq says, we're never going home early again. And, you know, he says, I take that back. In 99, yeah, actually, I think they do get bounced, actually. And so he says, sorry. And I go home really again. Yeah, yeah, they got swept by the spurs.

And then Phil Jackson comes in. And so he says, we're not going home early again. And then the next year, he wasn't like, I'm the MVP, I'm the MVP. He just kept saying we're on a mission. You know, he was very determined. And it was, we're on a mission. And he really wasn't angling that. The MVP was really a byproduct of how he was playing.

He was much more determined on the defensive end, you know, more of a threat defensively than we'd ever seen before, just going after anyone in every. that came into the paint. My favorite story from that year is they were playing the Milwaukee Bucks, Sam Cassell, Ray Allen, and like no one wanted to go inside. Ray Allen comes in and shoots a hook shot. Can you ever recall Ray Allen shooting a hook shot? No, I didn't know he had that in his bag. He didn't. He just made it up because he was thinking it's some way to try to get the ball without Shaq swat swatting it in the third row. And so guys would dribble in and dribble out of the paint And so, Sam Kassel after the game, I said, Sam, you guys didn't seem to be very interested in going into the paint much tonight.

He goes, shit, they got Shaq in that motherfucker. And that's what it was. You know, like, you weren't going inside because Shaq was just, like, I've never seen him jump that high as he did that year. Like, some of the best defensive highlights, I always say the best or the best Shaq highlights came in a magic uniform. That's why I'm glad they retired. that jersey in Orlando. The best of Shaq was in the Laker uniform. He was a much better player.

He was a much more exciting player in Orlando, except for when I think of him defensively, I think of that 99-2000 season when he was just a monster. It was like one of the, like he would, Shaq was one of those guys where he would turn it all defensively in stretches.

Like he could do it in the playoffs, you know, do it in the finals. But I feel like the 99-2000 season was the first and only time where he just took it seriously all 100 games. Yeah.

I remember they played the Rockets in the playoffs one year, and so they were going up against Yao Ming, and Shaq was very determined. And Shaq very noticeably was really jumping out and switching on the screens. It used to be Shaq just kind of set a screen on him. He really wasn't as a hand out or something like that. Yeah.

In that year, in part it was a playhouse, in part they were playing against Yao Ming, and I just remember it was just very noticeable how active he was fighting through this. screens and jumping and switching and things like that. But that 99, 2000 season, it was just evident, you know, he was going to be the rim protector. He was going to be fearsome back there. He was going to be so active and just go after everything and get rebounds as well.

I mean, that year of Shaq, that was his only MVP. And there really was no other season that he approached that. And then after that, he started getting a toe injury here. And, you know, as he used to call him, little knick-knack injuries. So he had trouble staying healthy throughout the next few years. But playoff time would come around. And, you know, he did win three straight finals MVP. But that was his only regular season MVP.

Well, you talk about dominant centers. And I just got to think about Yokets right now is the dominant center that we have in the league. He's a guy that feels like has some shot qualities in terms of the passing, in terms of, you know, he can pass within the lane. and he can be dominant offensively in the paint. What do you think Yokic is in the way he dominates says about our modern game? And it was interesting because, and I know I was guilty of it as well, I don't feel like we gave as a full basketball community Yokic is due until he got a ring.

And I understand that. And I understand that the pantheon that you get into when you do win a ring. But where do you see him right now among the all-time greats where we're at right now? because the stat lines are ridiculous, and I don't think his game does it justice enough to how great he is right now. I've started wondering, should we take Yokic at his best over

name certain greats at their best? You know, I'm not going to say the name that came to mind, and then I said, I thought better of it. So I don't even want to say it publicly. But I would just say that there are some names, not Michael Jordan, but you can pretty much take anyone out. after that and start to ask yourself, like, is Yolkich at his peak?

You know, better than some of these other guys when they're at their peak? Their best season? That's how highly I'm thinking of him these days and his impact on games. And what Yokic and the Nuggets have figured out is they're in this cruise control mode where they're not playing 48 great minutes of basketball every night because they don't have to. Because you're going to wear yourself out. You know, I think over the weekend it was a great comparison between the way the Nuggets beat the Lakers and the way that the Celtics beat the Warriors, right?

The Celtics just all out, you know, on-slot. And, you know, just a complete overall total domination. Whereas, you know, the Lakers were cruising along. Everything was going great for them. They're up like 13 early. in the second half and then boom yokeish and the nuggets just put it on and then it's a tie game late in the fourth quarter like a single possession game and the nuggets just sprinted away and it reminds me of the great teams and the great players and what they do and they just kind of

lie in wait during the regular season and they understand that about 12 minutes or so per night of them at their best is going to get them ws 95% of the time you know they just understand if we could just put together 12 good minutes, our best is better than anybody else's best. And that's what they had. They had. Well, there's certain teams that tend to have that, right? Championship teams. That's it.

Championship teams have it. Like the 91-92 bull season, you know, I remember, so I was here in Chicago for really the first repeat. So watching all the regular season games. And at 91-92 season, they had a higher point differential than their first breakthrough team. You know, that first team was a little bit younger and more. athletic, but now you add that championship

experience to it. He's like the forgotten year, right? It's the forgotten year that people don't talk about that. Some people think that team was better than the 72 win team. I'm inclined to be among them. I think it was a more complete team. You know, the 95, 96, the 72 win team, you know, they were more top heavy.

But you had a better Michael Jordan, I think, than 91, 92. Certainly more athletic Michael Jordan. Scotty, Horace, you know, John Paxson, you know, like you just had so many weapons and they were, I think, deeper than the 95-96 team. But really what they had was just that killer instinct, that closers mentality. So they had a better net rating differential than the first championship team. And I just looked at this Nuggets team this year.

It's funny. It doesn't seem like it. But they have a better net differential than last year's team. and that's to me the sign of, you know, that championship experience. Like it doesn't feel like they're playing that great, you know, but they're right there in the mix for the best record in the West, tied for a second and half game behind Oklahoma City as we taped us. And, you know, do we even feel like we've seen them playing at their best?

You know, they've dealt with injuries, people in and out of the lineup, et cetera. And yet here they are because they know they can just put together six to 12 minutes stretch and that's going to be enough to win most nights. Well, I tell you, that's why I think at this point I have the nuggets to favor to come out of the West because we're in this, in this transitional phase of the Western Conference right now, right? Like the Warriors are obviously descending, right? And they're getting older.

Lakers are getting older. We've even seen that with the Sons, right? Like Kevin Durant is getting older right now, right? But as a consequence, you have these younger teams that are at the top of the Western conference. You know, you have the Oklahoma City Thunder. You have the Timberwolves are right there as well. But I still take the nuggets because I don't know yet that when the chips are down,

that I can trust the Timberwolves and a head to head against them, right? Or the thunder as you say, or the Thunder, right? Exactly. And nothing against them. They just haven't been on this postseason excursion together yet. And so, yes, I have a hard time believing that they can do that. it's crazy right now because you look at the playing, the 7 through 10 in the West right now,

the star power that's in the playing. You made, you know, the Durant, Booker Bealt trio in Phoenix, Luca and Kyrie in Dallas, you know, Steph and the Warriors, LeBron and Anthony Davis are like, that's loaded. Like, there's more teams.

Every team I picked to go to the championship over the last two years just ended up into playing somehow, you know? It's what we're at right now. It was the Lakers, because I was really enamored. by what they did the last part of last season. And I thought that their, I thought that their supporting cast was going to be really good. I was really impressed by it.

I thought that they were going to be able to, because they were so good, be able to rest LeBron a bit more. And I talked myself into it, you know, like a better supporting cast around LeBron and AD. I thought it was going to work out. It wasn't Phoenix. It was actually the Lakers. Okay. Yeah, I mean, it's not crazy, considering they went to the conference finals last year.

but and the weird thing is like we had a healthier AD like you know you wait for the LeBron drop off we haven't had the LeBron drop off yet right like he's still playing like LeBron looks very much like LeBron AD we've gotten probably more than you have a right to expect from Anthony Davis right just in terms of being in the lineup on a regular basis and yet is still not there I will say you know some of that separation if we get back to Yokic as the MVP you know he just that game against the Lakers, he just came through more than Davis did. And that's the sign of a most valuable player. It's wild to see Davis play against Yokic because Davis is really good. He's probably the best defensive big man that we have, two-way defensive big man that we have right now. And you see him go up against Yokchch, he has nothing for him. Like even you saw him in the playoffs last year.

With some of the shots that Yokic's hit against him, you know, Davis's hand right in Yokic's face. Making Yolkich fall away from three-point land and, you know, hoist that shot from way behind his head. and then bank it in or whatever it takes. I mean, they had a great clip of Davis. They came back out of the timeout after Yokic hit another one of those crazy shots, and Davis is just like talking and laughing, and you kind of have to, right?

You just kind of have to laugh if you did a guy up that well. You know, it always reminds me David Aldridge and Wilbon, and I always say that the best defense we ever saw played against Michael Jordan was by John Starks in game three or four of the Eastern Conference finals in the 93 playoffs. and he deed him up, hand in his face, just like Anthony Davis, you look at those Yolk his shots. There's one time where, you know,

Starks basically dees Jordan off the floor. Jordan shoots like a fallaway three, lands in the front row and makes the shot. And it's funny, because we used to always say, man, that's the best defense way of them. And Michael went for 50 that day. And the game came back on,

I think it was Jordan's like 50th birthday, and they played like 50 great Michael Jordan games on NBA TV. And that game was one of, of them. And the defense was even better than I remembered. We're watching it again. I'm like, that was pre-hand-checking too. Yeah, you can still hand-checked. You know, so I mean, Stark's deed him. Pre-hand-check rules, excuse me.

Right, right, right. As great as you could expect anyone. And Jordan went for 50 on him. You know, I saw another game, Calvert Cheney played great defense on Michael Jordan. It didn't matter, 50 points. So what is it about like, it's funny? Because like you think about that as you go through a series, right? And I think about this with Yokage as against AD. And you think about last year's postseason, those great, like, supremely great players figure it out throughout the end. What is it about, like, that you've seen, like, with the Jordans, with the Yokic's, even with the Kobe's and LeBrons, of those guys that have been able to, like, figure

it out on the fly of, like, how this person is guarding me. Because we know, we know, like, after one or two games, you know, we as a consumer thing, oh, this person that we deem is good isn't that good because they had a terrible for game one. They shot six of something or whatever. Like I think about Jordan against Gary Payton when they went in the finals that year. They had one game.

It was one of Jordan's worst shooting games against Seattle, right? But he comes back and he figures it out. What is it about those great players that can figure it out on a fly, like the Yokic is and LeBron? With Yolkish, he's seeing a game that no one else is seeing. And I watch. the game and I'm trying to anticipate what he's going to true. I'm trying to guess what's going through his mind and I can't figure it out.

He's seeing stuff that I'm not seeing. It's funny, you know, growing up watching Magic and the Lakers, the thing that was cool was like as you're recognizing, like, oh man, James Worthy's open or Jamal Wilkes is open. Like as soon as you recognize it, magic's getting him to ball. You know, like he's kind of seeing it. You've got a better vision watching on TV, you know, kind of up high and seeing everything unfold and him in real time on the floor is seeing it at the exact same time that you are. With Yokic, he sees stuff that I don't see.

I don't think like, oh, you know, Gordon's open here or Murray's open there. Like, I don't see it. And next thing Yokic has seen it is delivering them to ball. So with Yokic, he just sees the game completely differently in a way that, like, I'm not there along with him. He's in some different place seeing things that I'm not seeing. like he's got x-ray goggles or something like that. I can't see it.

So to me, that's what separates him. He just, I don't even want to call it vision. It's just his anticipation and his calculation of what's going on on the court that, you know, if A plus B, Donchis has a little bit of that too. You know, I saw some clip where he kind of drove and he kind of no look through it over his head to somebody in the corner and they're like, how did he see him? And in this case, he didn't see him. He just knew that, okay, if A plus B plus C, this guy's going to be open in the corner, knowing our offense and knowing my teammates and where they're supposed to be. But Yokic has this helter-skelter game, right?

Where he's just like he's, I mean, he just looks like he's at the park, right? He doesn't look. He looks like, it's funny. He looks like this seven-foot normal human being that kind of does, the ringer that you see on the court. And he's like, he's lounging around. He's kind of burling around the court. and then he'll just throw a no-looker that you never even thought was there. Or it looks, it's a very sloppy way of playing basketball,

but everything seems to go together when he's playing, right? Like he'll see Jamal Murray in the corner or he'll run and it looks like he's going to get the ball stolen from him, but he finds Aaron Gordon, right? Like he's one of those type of helter-skelter guys. Like he has a magic behind the back pass. It just doesn't look as beautiful as Magic Johnson's, right? But it's there and it's going to get there right on time. it's just a different helter-skelter game that we haven't seen before.

And I think that's honestly why we didn't take them as seriously. It wasn't as refined as we think an NBA-grade game is supposed to be refined. Yeah. It's funny because I think the aesthetics hurt James Harden. We're going to forget how many years he was in the running for MVP. He got the one, but he was right there again. Curry's first year, the year of the Westbrook run it. Like Hardin just had this run where you had to,

rank him high in your MVP, if not give him an MVP vote. And, like, there were people that voted for him years in which I did not vote for him, but I certainly could see the reason why. But I think the reason he didn't have more widespread support was that, you know, the aesthetics and just all the dribbling. He played a game a lot of people didn't like, man. People didn't want to watch that.

Donch's plays similar, right? And he doesn't get as much blowback. Like, he has the ball in his hands a lot. You look at the time of possession stats. on NBA.com. Like, Luca is heavy dribbling, getting the ball, slowing it down. It's really similar to Hardin without all the blowback. You know, but with.

And Hardin one more than Dodgers, which has one to this point more than Dodgers has. Yeah. So, so Yokic, the fact that he doesn't have the ball in his hands a lot, right? So like that kind of earns him style points, aesthetic points, is that it might not look pretty, but the ball certainly doesn't bog down with him. You know, so it's aesthetically pleasing in that the ball's in and out of his hands quickly. That was the best thing about Lonzo Ball.

I miss watching him play, especially here in Chicago, is that the ball was out of his hands so quickly and it just kind of accelerated the pace of the game. So, I mean, you see how good the nuggets have been as a passing team now, and certainly it's because Yokic has infused that mentality.

But the aesthetics of his game, the way he moves is an aesthetically pleasing, but the way he moves the ball is ecstatically pleasing. And so, you know, I think that that's what has won people over to him. And, you know, that's why he's just in the mix every year as an MVP for the foreseeable future. Yeah. Let's say a quick break. I want to talk to you a little bit about LeBron. Get buckets with your first bet on fan duel, America's number one sportsbook.

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That wasn't on the bingo card when he came into the league. But he did it in a Lakers uniform. And I do think that is really, really important, not only for LeBron, but I think it's really important for the Lakers. And I've been thinking about this a lot, you know, after, you know, he actually got these scoring title in general over Karim Abdul-Jabbar last year. LeBron may not have gotten the rings required to be the Laker grade. He got the one. But I do feel like this is really, really important for both sides that he continues to rack up these individual accolades in a Laker uniform. because I think we forget just where the Lakers were pre-Lebron.

Where are we right now with LeBron's relationship with the Lakers and how the Laker fan base in Los Angeles are going to start to react to him once he's gone? Like, where are we at right now? He's not going to be Kobe. He's not going to be magic. But where is his place in Laker lore at this moment? Essentially, I hadn't thought about that,

that the milestones that he's achieving in this uniform, some things stood out to me the Denver game LeBron's at the Frithel line late in the game and there's some MVP chance going up but they just weren't as loud as full-throated as they were for Kobe so he's got to support but it's always going to be in the shadow of Kobe you know he wore 23 and 6 for the Lakers I can't see them retiring both for him I don't think he gets a statue I wouldn't at this point, you know, for what he's done as a Laker. You know, you should get a statue somewhere. Certainly in Cleveland, I think, you know, Miami doesn't really do that.

But, you know, they had the greatest run in the history of that franchise with him there. Essentially, because he's the greatest player, you know, in Cleveland history, greatest player in Miami history, the greatest player probably to play for the Lakers. But he's not the greatest Laker. He's not the greatest Laker player. Yeah. He's not even the top five or six, I don't think. It's hard.

You know, I wouldn't put him above magic. I wouldn't put him about Kobe. Wouldn't put him above Shaq. Wouldn't put him above Jerry West. You know, you're right. You put him above Elgin Baylor? Elgin Baylor. I'm going to disqualify myself just because I didn't see him play.

I didn't see, you know, West or Chamberlain either. but I was around. I don't know. The fact that Elgin didn't play on the 71-72 team, he retired right at the start of the season, I just feel like that costs him some points. You know, like to not have a championship, you know, and West only got one,

but he kind of laid the foundation for that team when they got to L.A., along with Elgin. But, you know, the fact that he stuck around for that one and then was the architect of some of the championship teams that have followed. You know, like, greatest Laker can encompass a lot of things. You know, I have Chick Hearn in my greatest Laker conversation, you know, just because what he meant to that franchise. I did a thing once for ESPN, L.A., when that was the thing.

And I think I wound up with Jerry Buss as my greatest Laker, just because he's, you know, 10 of the – He was an architect of this modern era. Yeah, at the time, it was 10. of 11 championships, you know, he was, he had a major role in. So, you know, and I should say L.A. Lakers, you know, we're not even getting to the Minneapolis era, but Lakers. You know, can, I guess what else is there for him to do? You know, what other milestones are out there that he can accomplish in a Laker jersey, right? So he got the big one. He got Kareem's record,

but, you know, 40,000 is cool, you know, but it wasn't, it's uncharted territory, but it's kind of like, you know, like the Voyager mission is now further than any manmade object has ever been from Earth, right? But like kind of, once it left our solar system, you know, everything beyond that is just gravy, right? So like literally, you know, since I started talking it was further away from Earth than any object that we've ever sent in the space is. But like, are we going to stop and, you know, have a video tribute right now to it. You know, we're going to stop and have a video tribute when LeBron gets to 41,000, you know, et cetera. So, um, in part, you know, it's L.A. How many, how many championship banners are you going to hang up on the wall?

Well, I think it's that part. I think it's the championships, but I don't also, I think that also he didn't, there was always a barrier. There's always been this with LeBron, just like a barrier between LeBron and the rest of the world, right? And I think everything I know about Los Angeles, and the players that you mentioned before, they had a connection to the city in a different way than LeBron has, right? Like, it seems like with LeBron it's a bit more of a manufactured,

um, relationship with the city, right? Kobe was, was in Los Angeles and he also had long tenure and he played 20 years there. But Magic was in Los Angeles. Yeah. Magic was in Los Angeles, right?

He was in the zeit guys of the city as opposed to being a Laker. It seems like LeBron is a Laker. And, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't seem like there is the same connection between, I just got back from there. Like, you would, if you, if you closed your eyes, you wouldn't know that LeBron plays for the team. Like, it just was, he doesn't have that overall presence in the city in the way that you would think. Like, how much does that play a part into it? Remember, Logan?

Like, when he first got to L.A., he had all these commercials that were still playing up Cleveland. Yeah. Remember? Remember, like, his first year in L.A., a lot of his commercials were still really Cleveland-based. and that was that was a little bit weird right um i remember kind of notably to me at least uh he had the the laker pa announcer laurence tanner um doing the voice for for one of them kind of introduces him from you know st vincent and st mary um but again that's ohio right you know like like even even having the l a announcer is paying homage to lebron's ohio roots and announcing him from

from St. Vincent's the St. Mary. So that was a weird thing that first year. It felt like he had like two national commercials that really was talking about, you know, Akron guy, Cleveland, Ohio, all that. That was a little bit strange. But that's kind of some of the things he has to overcome, right? Or some things that might be impossible to come.

But the fact that Magic played his entire career in a Laker jersey, Kobe played his entire career in a Laker jersey, Kareem's interesting because he played a UCLA, but then he started his pro career in Milwaukee. Obviously, he wasn't, you know, as embracing and welcoming, you know, in the prime of his career, at least. I think he kind of softened later on. And certainly he was loved in L.A.

You know, there was a lot of love for Kareem in Los Angeles. I think you saw when he kind of passed the ball and passed the torch to LeBron after LeBron broke his record. He's loved in L.A. But it's not quite the same as playing. Which I think is the biggest comparison that you can make to LeBron, I think in this air. I think we'll only had like one title with the Lakers. But I feel like he had the zeitgeist of Los Angeles, right?

Like you go to a Lakers game right now. You're going to see Wille Chamberlain Lakers jerseys, even though most of his, the prime of his career was with the Philadelphia warriors and the San Francisco warriors, right? But he really made himself at home in L.A., you know, and he started doing commercials and things like that. And he was in movies, right? You know, and LeBron's been in movies, but LeBron was in movies before he got to L.A. And kind of in the 70s, right, you kind of had to be in L.A. to be the movies, right? And even into the 90s, like, you know, a lot of people believed, I don't think it was necessarily the case, but a lot of people believe that Shaq went to L.A. and the Lakers so that he could be in movies and, you know,

kind of play up his, you know, LeBron didn't have to. By the time, you know, by 2010s, 2020s, you don't have to be in L.A. to be a movie. You know, Kevin Durant got in a movie playing in Oklahoma City. You know, like, you didn't have to be in a, but you didn't have to bring that up. You didn't have to bring, you didn't have to bring up Kevin Durant's acting career. We were fine without it. You didn't have to do that. I never saw that movie. Did you see it? Neither did I. Neither did not a lot of people. I think that's good for the, I think that's good for everyone involved. I didn't hear him get panted. It's not like he was bad. Right. I think he wasn't. I don't know. I think he's been okay in commercials. I'm talking about that specific movie. Like, I definitely, if you, if you put Kazam and. understruck in front of me right now. I think I'd pick Kazam in a heartbeat. LeBron was really good. What was the one with Amy Schumer that he was in? What was the name of that? He was really good. The one with him with Amy Schumer and Bill Hader. Yeah. That was a good movie. He was good. He was really good at him. You know, when he was great, man, when he hosted the SPs.

Like, that was like after his rookie year. That was really early in his career. And he co-hosts the SPs and did a great job. Yeah. And he did the S&L. Did great. It was on S&L. did great a snow. But I just don't, but like then he did space jam. And I think every, every, every, all of that practice that he had just went out the window because it didn't feel like he was a real person in space jam. You know, and I think we're getting a little inside baseball. But it just, it just felt like the whole, the whole LeBron, the L.A. experience can be summed up in space jam. It's not a, it's not a real thing, right?

Like, even when Michael Jordan did space jam, it felt like Michael Jordan was a real person. Like, LeBron didn't feel like a real person in space jam. But it worked, though. And here's how and why it worked. My niece who lives in Vancouver, British Columbia, she watched Space Jam and like she doesn't really care about the NBA. And I went to visit her one summer and it was just, LeBron James is, LeBron James that, like she thinks the world revolves around LeBron James and it's only through Space Jam.

So very effective on his part to connect with a next generation. You know, just like young kids today, they don't really identify with Michael Jordan, the player that identify with Michael Jordan, you know, the Air Jordan, you know, the logo on their shoes that they all wear. You know, he's already, I think, hooked a generation that really isn't going to know him as a basketball player. They're going to know him, you know, as an entertainment icon even. And so, you know, just as a public figure. So I think that worked out.

I feel like the whole move to the Lakers is a success, even if he's not. in the echelon with Magic and Kobe in terms of how he's beloved, but that chapter that it gave him to his career where to say that he moved to Miami, had the best run in that franchise's history, goes back to Cleveland, wins the only championship for that city, you know, in the major sports in five decades, comes to L.A., restores the Lakers, wins another championship there, where's that jersey as he passes Kareem? That career path, that story that we're going to tell is unprecedented. The question, no, is, is he going to be coming to the reunions? Is he going to be the guy that's just like yucking it up, like every couple of years?

Is he going to be in the Lakers family in that way? So I guess what's interesting is. You know, Kareem and Magic and Shaq and, you know, Kobe, to a certain extent before he passed would like come, you know, come to all the things, right? Is LeBron going to be one of those guys that's in the family for years to come? And they're going to need it. I wonder who's kind of left on the statue list. right and I guess an interesting maybe unanswerable question

if there's a statue for somebody who's not LeBron would he show up for it you know would he feel a part of it and one thing about those Lakers tattoos like a Pau Gasol. Like a Paugasaw Yeah they did a Pau statue would he be there

you know the Laker statue unveilings were really unlike anything in the NBA because you'd get Kareem and Magic and Davis Stern and Jerry West and Elgin Baylor and like Bill Russell would even show up.

You know, Bill Walton, like you get these just who's who's of NBA history, right? They all happen to have a connection to the Lakers except for, you know, the likes of Bill Russell, but he's connected, he's intertwined with the Lakers just from the rivalry, right? So, you know,

and it's just kind of sad like, you know, we've lost Elgin, you know, it just feels like going forward, they won't be quite what we lost Bill Russell, we've lost David Stern, you know, will inevitably, you know, unfortunately lose some more as we go on. But will those moments feel the same and will LeBron be a part of it? Because that was when you'd really see the Laker family and the Laker history and you'd just get an appreciation just for how special

that that collection was, right? And the type of names that they could bring out for one of these events. Like, it felt like only the Lakers could do something like this. You know, the Celtics have a start of history. No one can do propaganda the way the Lakers can do propaganda. Yeah, but also lore, right? The lore of the Lakers and how they can play it up and the names that they can call upon from their roster to show up at these type of things. And it's a really interesting question. Would you see, will we see LeBron at these type of things unless he's the one being honored? You know, I'd imagine he'd certainly be welcome, right? So will he feel and will it feel incomplete without it?

That's the biggest question, yeah. Yeah, like there was one of the statues, magic couldn't be there. He sent in a video, you know, tribute. And, you know, at least he was a part of it still. But like, you know, it's kind of not quite the same without magic there. You know, is he, is, is LeBron that essential to the Lakers that if he's not there for a statue unveiling or for a reunion or something like that, does it just feel incomplete?

I don't know. I'm not quite sure yet. I don't know how they have answers to that question yet. But speaking of questions, we're going to bring in our producer Kermm. It is Monday. You guys know what that is. It is our mailback Monday episode. We have with the special guest.

What's up, Kerm? How you doing, bro? What's up, guys? So we got one question this week, kind of loaded from Liren, Lyron. If I mispronaged your name, I'm sorry. They have some suggestions on how to fix All-Star Weekend, specifically the All-Star. specifically the All-Star game. They say, my vision for how to fix the All-Star game,

instead of doing East versus West, divide the players by generation and do a bunch of quick round-robin games. Here's how it could work. Fans, coaches still vote on the 24 All-Star players. These players get grouped by generation, which is four years of consecutive birth years. For 2024, the breakdown would have been 1984 through 1987, would be LeBron, 1988 through 1991,

would be Curry, KD, Lillard, Paul George and Kauai. 1992 through 1995 would be Janice, Jokic, Embed, A. D. Towns and Randall. 96 through 99 would be Luca, Shea, Tatum, Booker, Trey,

Bam, Donovan Mitchell, and Brunson, Jalen Brown, and 2002, 2003 would be Halliburton, Maxie, Aunt Barnes, and Paolo. And alternatively, you could do it by draft class or split generations by every three years instead of four.

God damn, it's a long question. I'm still going, guys. Then the all-stars for each team draft players who are the same generation to fill out the rosters, those extra players will play but won't count as all-stars. Wait, we're doing all this in one weekend? That's what I'm saying. It's a lot. It's a lot.

I'm just, I'm reading what they said. It was like, you know, a lot of, a lot of thoughts going on here. a lot of round robbing games, multiple drafts, guys that aren't All-Stars would also be in this round-robin tournament. I'm very confused. It's a lot.

I don't think that would happen. I tried. I tried. That's a lot. Part of the problem, Logan, is that the youngest are the ones who kind of started ruining it, right? Who disrespected, not that you should respect the All-Star game,

but, you know, who made it not competitive. And I was thinking about how the origins of that go back to the Frost Soft game, right, the rookies versus the sophomores. And before we started complaining about the All-Star game and its lack of competitiveness, we were complaining about the rookie sophomore game. Oh, 304. And that's lack of competitiveness, right?

I remember that. You know, when they brought it, and the young guys just kind of stopped competing in it, and it turned into a joke, and nobody cared about it anymore. And then those guys became the all-stars, right? As they moved up through the league, and those same guys that weren't competing on Friday night,

now got to play on Sunday and not compete. on Sundays. So generationally, I don't think that's going to answer the problem because it's the younger ones who kind of got us in this position. My solution would be, I think, make the play in, in-season tournament or the in-season tournament, whatever is called, make that the mid-season celebration, right? So let's call it the mid-season tournament. Let's play it around the middle of the season. That's when we have the final round. Maybe you can make it last longer, right? Since we But you give them the break, though. The thing is that they would talk about is making sure that you give those teams that do play.

I know they have the incentive for the million dollars. But do you give the players that do play in that, do you give them that week off break that they should get? Because the other thing is you don't want to add like really, you don't want to add games. That's the biggest thing with these players are complaining about. So how do you have a mid-season tournament and then make sure that these guys are getting the rest that they're asking for and collectively bargain for? You get the three days off like you got now, right, after the tournament. So, and I would still have like the skills competition, the three-point shootout, the dunk contest. I would still have all that together.

It's the celebration of basketball where we have a somewhat meaningful game, right? You know, and I give LeBron a lot of credit for infusing the in season tournament with meaning because he really went after it. And he also sold a lot of tickets by the fact that him and the Lakers were in Vegas. So play that game and maybe play it first and then you do all the competitions afterwards so that if somebody who plays in the championship game wants to participate, you can do that afterward as an option. And I'd rather say someone's performance in the competitions was affected by playing in the championship game as opposed to someone's performance in the championship game was affected by doing the competition. So do the competitions afterwards. So Jay, would you scrap the All-Star game Saturday? You would just scrap the All-Star game all together then?

Yes. You would just scrap that all together and just say like, just put like the All-Star. You could just say like a list of like the best players that were in the All-Star for that. Instead of having a game. We just do like we did. And we have all-NBA at the end of the season, right? Like that's your recognition for the best players in the league. We've got three all-MBA teams.

You know, we still have a celebration of basketball. We still can, you can gather all the all-time greats. You can do everything that All-Star Weekend to celebrate the game. We just have, you know, an actual competitive game at the centerpiece of it. You know, the All-Star game, it was more unique before you have free agency. You know, it used to be, yeah, I wondered what would it be like to see LeBron play with KD. Well, we got to see that on USA basketball team, right? So between the Olympic teams and the national teams that have NBA players,

And between free agency, you know, we've gotten to see a lot of the combinations that we could only imagine in the past, right? So that uniqueness of like, oh, man, I wonder what would be like. You know what's funny at Logan? I was thinking about how so in the 80s and early 90s, like players like Magic Johnson probably had the best one. So they'd have these charity games, right? They'd call all their buddies. And it would be All-Stars. It would be Michael Jordan and Larry Bird.

And you get to see all these guys. Summer Nights Classic or something like that. Summer Nights Magic. That's what it's called. It's called Mid-Summer Night's Magic. It's funny. The very first one was at actually Lowland Merrimount. And that was mostly just kind of, that was mostly kind of just like the Lakers who were in town.

You know, it was like Fire Scott, Michael Coo. You know, like, and then they moved it to Pauley Pavilion. And they had like Larry Bird and Michael and Charles Barkley. And then they moved it to the forum. So they're playing these games in the forum with all stars, the stars of stars, right? the biggest names, Dominique Wilkins would be there too, you know, like stars. And it's funny, the league, I need to double check this, but I'm pretty sure the league, because they used to show it like on the local prime ticket was the cable package in LA, right?

And they actually made them stop showing it because they thought it was bad for the brand of the NBA because you had these competitionless games, right? It looked like it. I still think it's probably more competitive than today's All-Star games, but, you know, they weren't playing defense. Usually at the end, Magic would just turn it into a dunk contest at the end with like a couple minutes old.

They'd stop playing and they just have like an impromptu dunk contest. So it wasn't very competitive. The league was like, yeah, we don't want people seeing this because this is not how we want to see the league portrayed. Now that's exactly what you see during the league showcase. I don't even watch it anymore.

I don't even watch the All-Star game anymore, man. Like, I don't want to see a 211 game versus whatever, right? Like, I don't want to see it. The fun part was like, remember, it went from, I don't know if it was competitive all the time that was before my time, but I do remember this during my generation was, there was a, there was the understanding that this was an all-star game for three quarters.

And then the fourth quarter, all right, we're going to go play. We're going to see, we're going to try to win this for the West, right? And that started to ebb and flow, like, when I started covering the game. And then now, like, it's just a free for all. When did you start covering it? I started covering, I started entering 2011, started covering on a full-time basis, I would say, 2017. I start covering the Warriors. So that's right after

Kobe's last one, right? I mean, a lot of you can directly, and I will say Westbrook kind of kept the spirit of Kobe alive. Like, I don't know how many All-Star MVP's Westbrook got. I feel like he got a couple at least, right? Because he would go out there and play. You know, and Kobe would go out there and play.

Kobe got his nose broken in an All-Star game because he was playing. But who's the young guy that you, like, is, I mean, the one guy that I thought would be the competitive one was Anthony Edwards, who basically said, like, nah. This is All-Star Weekend. I don't care. And I don't know who the player is that both is good enough to do it.

And that is also respected enough to be like, because I don't think Jason Tatum's out here telling me, hey, we got to play right now and set the tone. Like, I don't see that. I don't know who that young player is. Is it Luca? Like, I don't know who that guy is that people both respect and is as good enough to do it. You know what was interesting? My favorite moment of the All-Star weekend in Salt Lake City was when Tatum and Jay

Brown kind of went one-on-one. Yeah. And, and, you know, because here's two teammates, and because they picked the team still that year, they wound up on opposite teams, and they kind of called each other out and went one-on-one and I so. And I would actually like to see more of that. I would like, you know, maybe even let's stop pretending we're playing a team game and let's see some one-on-ones kind of mid-game, everybody clear out, and let's see some interesting one-on-one combinations. And maybe we could go back to picking sides instead of East versus West. So maybe you get to see two teammates go one-on-one, ISO in the middle of an All-Star game.

I think that would be fun. I got a hot take. Okay. What's up? The way I look at this, if we look at our jobs on a day-to-day basis, right? Like, if I'm one of the best podcast producers in the world, and you tell me all the other podcast producers get to take the week off and I got to go put on a podcast spectacle, essentially you're asking me to do extra work because I'm good at my job, it's kind of bullshit.

Like, I get why they're not taking this shit serious. You're asking them to go play extra games just for the fun of it. Not me. How old are you, Kurt? 25. Yeah, you sound a real Gen Z right there. Real Gen Z right there. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, it's supposed to be an honor, you know? Like, that's the whole point. Like, you know, like, you don't think of playing into June is extra work, right? It's a privilege. Technically don't get paid unless they do get paid and aware, but they're not getting paid game by game in the playoffs. I mean, it's nowhere near.

LeBron's, what LeBron makes for the playoffs is nowhere near, you know, and Steph Curry, there's nowhere near what they're making per game for the regular season. They're doing it because that's what they play for. Like, don't you want to be the best?

Like, if you get, you know, like, if there's like a DJ competition, right? Like, right, that's not your main job,

but like, you know, you're going to go out there and show you got the most turntable. Hustle like you broke, Kerm. Hustle like you. you broke. I feel you, but I'm looking at it like in 10 years, we don't look at dudes' legacies based on these All-Star games.

Like, we look at it based on the ring. So why would I be worried about an All-Star game in February when if I have championship aspirations and I'm seeing all my homies, they post in Cancun, they get the week off, and I'm over here playing in Indiana. That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying, man. Go watch. In 2001, Iverson wins MVP.

They played it in D.C. Yeah. And he leads a comeback in the fourth quarter. Go look at his face when Stern hands him that all-star MVP and tell me that didn't matter to him. And tell me he doesn't see that. And what he used to talk about on this day, all the best players in the world were on the court, the same court, and I was deemed the best of the best. And it mattered to him. I mean, he was in 98, like when Kobe was going up against Jordan, Jordan won the MVP that year.

But Kobe was going for this. He was going for it. He wanted to go out of his idol. We don't have, we don't have that. There's no one like Tatum is not saying, LeBron, come here, right now, come here. One on one, let's see what you got. Or such as such saying, say like, yo, Janus, come here.

I'm trying to take your lunch. And it's funny because, so I think universally you'll find that the greatest NBA All-Star game was 92 when Magic comes out of retirement, retired earlier that season with the HIV announcement, and yet still gets voted into the All-Star game and participates in the All-Star game and just has this great moment that, you know, that was capped off with a three-pointer at the end.

But on the last possession, this is Magic's Day, right? It's Magic's Day. It's his moment, you know, hey, let's let him have. No, Isaiah and Michael Jordan are double teaming him denying him the ball on the last possession before he finally breaks free. And then, you know, Isaiah dees him up. like Isaiah gets him on the switch. He's not letting him go by.

He dees them up. So magic hits a fallaway three over him. And that's kind of the fairy tale ending to the story. But like the reason why it was such a great story was like they weren't it. Dennis Rodman, first time he checks in the game against Magic. He's like, you know, he's like, no. You know, I know it's a all-star game. I know it's, you know, you're happy to be back on the court.

No, you're going to have to earn this. Tell him. Go watch that last possession. They're denying him the ball. Zika and Michael. Georgia double team and magic away from the ball. Like that's like, no, man. No, you don't just get to walk in here and do whatever you want, you know?

So like it used to matter. The all-star game MVP is, you know, obviously we list Iverson his regular season MVP, but the next year he won an all-star game MVP and that mattered to him because the best of the best got together, he outperformed them all. And like, I bet you that trophy has a special place in his heart. Yeah. There you go. Jay A. Adande just took down Gen Z. That's going to be the, it's going to be the, it's going to be the

aggregated. It's going to be the title of this podcast. Hey, Gen Z are the future, you know, I do believe the future is in good hands with Gen Z. You know, they're going to clean up a lot of mistakes that us and our predecessors. Last question, though, for you though, real quick, because on that note, and I wanted to ask you this question, you know, you are the director of sports journalism at a deal right now. And I think it's important to talk about the journalism landscape right now, even if it's just for a brief moment before we get you out of here. Where do you see that with these young group? What are you trying to teach this young group of journalists that are about to get into this field and the field that they are facing? Because I remember when I was coming up, like, it was on the

tail end of like what we know is newspapers right now, right? At the Mercury News. And then like it's, it just was the reason why I got my job was because, you know, the Marcus Thompson's and the Tim Kawakommies went to the athletic, right? And, you know, it opened up a spot for me because, you know, I was cheap labor, right? And now that's even more eroding since the time that I got there. How do you teach your kids about a future in this profession when everything is telling us that it's eroding at this point? Versatility. Um, really video and audio-based, you know, more so than writing. I still think there's a foundation of writing.

You know, I was talking to a PR director for an NBA team last week, and they were telling me that they still have a need for writers. The written word, there's still a need for it. There's not a premium placed on it. There's not a high value placed on it, right? But I feel like you need to be able to organize your thoughts. Well, I still think if you look around the television landscape, you see, you know, Stephen A and Wilbon and et cetera on and on came from a writing background.

And I feel like that is still essential to have in your tool bag. But just recognizing that podcasting, video, streaming, you know, that's where you need to be and that you need to be capable of it. And you need to be multidimensional. You know, they're still figuring it out, right? the streaming is losing tons of money. The podcast isn't always successful. So, you know, everyone is trying to figure out ways to make it profitable. I don't know which model will prevail where you can, you know, make a good living.

And the key is being able to make a good living. And more importantly, to get to travel and the cover stuff and to, you know, to get to know these players and these teams and these leagues. Right. That's what has me most concern is, okay, what opportunity are you? going to have to really get ingrained and to really get behind the scenes and to really spend a lot of time and build the relationships that are so essential to have the experiences and the memories and all these moments that you can call upon. That's our concern. So like any opportunity that puts you in position to do that, you got to grab it, even if it's not the

most glamorous, even if it's not the best paying, the value, the wealth of that experience will pay off down the road and will make you more valuable. You know, it's just those opportunities are getting a little bit harder to come by, a lot harder to come by. Yeah. I think, I do believe in Gen Z. I do believe in the next generation to figure it out. In their own way. Yeah.

They're really smart. Yeah. Socially engaged, committed to making the world better. I don't think, you know, they're more, they think more broadly, right? They don't just think about themselves. So there's a lot to like. There's a lot of potential. It's really up to the world.

world to serve them, you know, to give them an opportunities and especially at a young age. I think college age people have a right to be selfish. I think at that time, you know, before you have kids, before your parents are elderly and need care, like when everything is good and when you're independent, like be selfish by all means. Pursue and do what you want to do. This is your time, you know, and then, but I think not only are they thinking that way, but simultaneously, they think about they want to do right by the world. And that's what I like to see about Gen Z. You're all right by McCorm.

You and you're Jen. You're okay. But just like the notion of I don't want to participate in an all-star game because there's extra work. Like pride, man. Just have some pride in your craft and have some pride in your profession. That's all I'm saying.

That is one of the best in the business. Jay Adande, director of sports journalism at Medell. Catch him on Around the Horn. is also a Kurt Gowdy Award recipient. Congratulations, dog. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Oh, one other thing. Make sure you guys tap into the Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Every Monday we do mailbag. So tap in with us. Make sure you send in your questions again to Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. We will see you guys next time. Talk to y'all soon. Peace.

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