The Ringer NBA Show - The NBA Is Back! Plus Real or No Real Debut | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

Logan and Raja discuss this season’s first full slate of NBA games. They talk about the Suns’ late-game comeback against the Mavs (1:02), the impressive showing from the New Orleans Pelicans (9:52), and much more. Later, Logan introduces Real or No Real, a brand-new segment on this year’s ‘Real Ones’ (28:26). Finally, the guys choose their Real Ones of the Week (51:05). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Would you bet a few thousand dollars that you could sink an eight-foot putt? What about 10 grand that you could win a drag race against a Camaro with a thousand horsepower? If you bet two million dollars, could you bet it all on one football game? Maybe you wish you could, but you probably wouldn't. Gamblers is about the people who did. From the Ringer podcast network, listen to Gamblers Season 2 on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping? Real ones.

Logan Murdoch, Roger Bell here. Roger, man, I'm just going to get right to it, bro. Let's talk about your sons. Me, third-eye, and Killikerm, we're texting, and we're like, you know, we're about to put the sons in a pack. And then the sons win. The sons come back and win. We got a D-League game.

What does this do for the sons, man? Because, you know, they were about to get put in the pack. They were about to get, we were about to talk big shit about the sons. But very, very, very impressive win to start the season for the sons, considering. the circumstances. Yeah, I think, I mean, if you're a son's fan, you know, you have to be really excited about, you know, the way they kind of dug themselves out of that and the contributions you got from different pieces of that team.

I like DeBook's energy. I like the way he was attacking the paint and playing downhill. There are some things that like, but it's, but it's one game, you know, and if you were going to have a chip on your shoulder to play against anybody coming into the first game of this season, it was probably going to be. the Dallas Mavericks. Now that didn't, you know, it didn't prove itself to be true early in the game,

but they found a way to summon it up and get the W. But that's, it's a good win for a first game, if that makes any sense at all. Because it's just one game, but it's a damn good way to start the season and a good win. What is the nuance of the first game, Roger, because it could mean different things for different people, right? Like I think about,

I was watching the Memphis game, the Memphis Knicks game, and the first game for the Knicks is way different than the first game for the Suns. So how important was this game for the Suns as opposed to how important it would have been for say the Knicks to want to set the tone for a season like that?

What are the differences in a first game? It's an interesting question. I think first games are weird because for some teams they'll tell you stuff and for other teams, they're just not going to tell you anything. Do you know what I mean? And so depending on who you are

and where your team is and its maturation process and what you came off of last year, I think those factors go into whether or not we can read a lot into your first game. I like, again, I like the son's first game, not only because they won it, D. Lee was big down the stretch, but I liked, I said, how Devin Booker was playing downhill.

You know, the Sun's really punished, they really punished them interior-wise, Dallas, that is. They outscored them 56 to 36 points in the paint, Phoenix with the advantage by 20 points. I like your mindset there. I like the way you're saying, we are more physical

and we ain't running from nothing that you got in there, and you're going to feel us. So I like what that looked like. I don't necessarily know what it means, big picture long term for the sun. Some of that's going to have to sort itself out as I watch more teams in the Western Conference. But it's a good way to get off to a start

in a season that's got a lot, or an off season, my bad, that had a lot going on for you. And you come out and you get that win and while it is only one win, it's something, we're moving. Yeah, it's interesting where the sons are right now because I think it was just a huge win in the sense that

at halftime, they were down so much. I think they were down 22 in the start of the third quarter. They were in a position where the team that beat them, as bad as they beat them historically, were back in the same position and beating them even worse. And you know Dallas and you also know NBA teams. Dallas is probably like, yo, we beat these motherfuckers last year. Why aren't we getting this home game? This is, this is supposed to be for us. This is our home game, right? They have that chip on their shoulder.

They already have the fact they're beating, they're kicking the shit out of the Sons. And they're already about to be like, oh, we're putting your whole season in a pack tonight. That's how we feel. And then for the Sons, who I just was going to write off their whole season last. And I'm not even going to line of you, Rajah, just with the ramifications of what happened last year. And for them to not only come back, but come back twice. They came back first time made a run from that 22-point deficit. And then they were down 15 going into in the third after Christian Wood just start balling out. For them to have those two comebacks that I don't, I don't know where they're going to head, but I think they're, they're better than I thought they were going to be. And I was

really, really impressed by what they, that that group did, considering all the stuff that went in the, in the off season. Yeah, I think that's fair. Again, it would have been a terrible way to start the year to just get, just completely ran over by Dallas. That would have been an awful way to start the season. So there's a lot to be said for the character that they showed in the face of all of what you just talked about.

I just still cautioned, like, that's one game. I, you know, as a team from Phoenix, I need to see more. While it's a good way to start, I need to see more. I want to get back, I want to go on the other side of this match, because I think it's really intriguing. It's something that we talked about a lot last season. However the Mavericks go this season is going to be reliant on Luca. Christian Wood played really well down the stretch,

but I just feel like you need another guy that's going to be able to, on a consistent basis, that's going to be able to get you buckets down the stretch. Now, like when things like this happen, I know they have Dinwiddie who has done good things in spurts, but how much do they need a Christian Wood in this season? For years, they haven't had a number two to Luca. Guy that they want as a number two to Luca, but that can also defer to Luca in that way.

How do you, what did you see from last season? I mean, last night that probably gives you confidence or maybe not confidence in what's going on going forward. Well, I like Christian Wood. I think he's a good player. I don't know that he's a number two to Luke. when you're trying to win a championship. And no disrespect.

I mean, I think that you're going to need, you know, primary playmakers. And again, I harp on this all the time. The willingness of a Luca to allow somebody else to playmate is going to be really important. And game recognizes game. So, like, you saw Luca last year say, hey, I recognize Jalen Brunson can cook. Like, I see this. Like, I respect that. And so I will kind of allow.

allow myself to get off that ball a little bit because I trust that if I do, he'll make something good happen. And so you need a player like that. I don't know that Christian Wood falls into that category necessarily, consistently. They got a lot of guys right now that I think they could be number two's on any given night, but the consistency is what makes you a real number two. And Luca is going to need that. And so Dallas does a lot of things good that's going to keep them around relevant in the conversation, winning games. But when you get to that push comes to shove, I think you're going to need a little bit more than just the Luca and then maybe Christian Wood or Spencer Dinwiddie.

When I looked at Dallas, it seemed like the exact same team as last season. You know what I'm saying? We're like, you know, the ceiling is probably 52 to 55 wins because that's just what Luca can do for you. He's like a walking 55 win player. That's just how good he is. I think that this is going to be something that the Mavericks are going to have to deal with just until they get until Christian Wood maybe takes the next step as a consistent basketball player

or until they get just a solid, solid number two that they've been trying to find. I don't know. I don't think it's any doomsday by any means, but I think they're just going to keep kicking the can down the road today, find that guy. And that's fine, but you still, at a certain point, you still want to, you want to go, you don't want to just be a 55 one team. in this league. You want to be a 58 to 61 team and you're consistently going to being a contender.

And I think that they're still away from that, Rob. It doesn't always just fall into your lap in the way that fans wanted to fall into your lap just the team being built and being ready to win right now. So it's going to take them tinkering, finding real pieces

that are complimentary to Luca and Phil needs for you. that are trustworthy. And then you will have to continue to just play it out. See what, you know, shakes loose. There's going to be a period of time, you know, in 15 to 20 games where people are realizing what they are or what they aren't and they're going to be ready to make some

sort of move. Does anything shake free then that makes sense? And that's the game that you play as a general manager, as an owner, you know, to some degree as coaches, as you're watching your team trying to figure out, man, this is what we have. This is what we're missing. You know, I'm talking to my GM. trying to find out, hey, if anything like X, Y, or Z is available,

can, would we think about, you know, making the move? And so that's what Dallas is in, because this isn't a championship roster. I don't mean any disrespect. When I watch them play, they don't look like a championship roster this year right now. But that doesn't mean that it can't turn into that as you continue to let the season unfold and moves get made. All right, man, I want to talk about a team or, you know, a team with some people near and dear to your heart.

The New Orleans Pelicans, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very. impressed by them. I don't know how much you saw this game, Ron, but from the start was just a commanding we're here type win, right? Yeah. Zion was on fire. Brandon Ingram had had the hair out. He just said, nah, nah, ain't no braids for this one. I ain't no braids for this one. We lock it in and we're not playing around. And the Pelicans just went out into Brooklyn and just embarrassed the Nets. What did you see from that game from the Pelicans that you saw in Miami? And did you, did you get a hints of this when they were in town? I did. I did. I saw, again, as I was sitting there with Griff, just watching them play the heat, they were resting a lot of people, but they were in a game,

nip and tuck, going back and forth, I'll be a preseason, but Bam was out there, Tyler Hero was out there, and I saw a hyper, like a really competitive bunch. And then, you know, sometimes I got distracted, right? Because I'm talking to Griff, my kids are there, I'm trying to make sure they're having a good time, talking to my wife, I'm talking to Aaron Nelson. And so I And I look over at the bench and I'm like, oh, damn, that guy's on their bench. And then I'm like, oh, damn, he's on their bench too. And then I'm starting to think, well, damn, if they're really competitive with this unit and all of this length and they still have these pieces over there. Like Devante Graham's not out there playing.

And, you know, you had multiple pieces that B.I wasn't playing. There were multiple pieces over there that weren't really playing. Zion was out at the half. I was like, wow, this team is deep. There's real depth there. And so last night, you know, when I watched them play, and that was the game I was tuned into the most, I just saw that bear itself out. I saw their depth.

I saw their depth in scoring, right? When you had, you know, 28 from BI on 10 to 17 and CJ with 21, you know, Jonas Valenuton, it's 15. Murphy came in and had 16. And then Zion, you know, bounces back 11 for 22 with 25 and 9. Like there's a lot of scoring. They're bucket getters. know they play with a pace and defensively they're long they're athletic they're they're they're versatile i just like the pelicans they're well coached i like their demeanor they got a bunch of dudes

that don't really get too uber emotional one way or the other right think of b i be i look at his face all the time yeah exactly all the time look at cj look at like cj's another one of those do is just the consummate pro i'm just rolling like this is what i do i i i i bucket you know it doesn't matter And so I like, I like, and they reflect, they reflect Willie G in that regard. My pops used to tell me like when I would come, when I would like just, you know, have an accomplishment and stuff like that, it would be like, great job. And it's expected, you know, like, this is expected, right? Not saying then like, you know, like I'm proud of you, but this is what this is the standard that's expected. That's what the pelicans felt like.

Oh, we're expecting to do this. This ain't even new to us. They were not afraid of the moment. Ben Simmons, okay. Katie, all right, what show. Kyrie, all right, don't even trip. They went out and just got it. They just took it from them, right?

And when we talk about game ones and opening night statements, you know, not every opening night is created equal. But for the Pelicans, that is a tone setting game one of the season. That is going to, that's going to set the tone for the rest of the way. It is. And you talk about setting a tone, and I talked about how I liked Phoenix and their ability to get in the paint and just say, when we need to, hey, we're coming at you, right? Like, we're in this hole and we're coming downhill. We're coming at you. I also, I just talked about the Pelicans' length and versatility and stuff like that. They are, they pummeled Brooklyn on that offensive glass. They had 21 offensive rebounds last night at Brooklyn's nine. It was 61 to 39 in terms of a rebound, you know, a discrepancy.

They just took it to them in a physical, physical way. It's going to be Brooklyn's, you know, cross-the-bear type of Achilles heel this season. They got to figure out how to get that right. But that's how New Orleans feels, right? That tells you how a team feels about you. When you say set a tone, this is how we're setting our tone, bro, we're long, we're physical. We come downhill at you. We got bucket getters.

This is going to be every time you see us. What did you, you spoke about Zion a little bit. What did you think of him? I've only seen him in spurts. I remember one time when I saw him, he came to Chase Center. and man, I remember he caught the ball at the short corner, took a dribble, saw Juan Susano Anderson and said, uh-uh, move out the way, just gave him a shoulder. Juan went to the other side of the court and he just dumped it.

That was what it was. And I was like, oh, this guy, that just is impressive, but like, I ain't never seen nothing like this before. I ain't never seen Bo Jackson in a basketball uniform. But what did you see when you watch the ball? play, and then what did you see last night from him where you were like, okay, all right, he's back, he's here. Obviously, he's got a real uncanny ability for a dude that size to control his body and contorted

in ways that get him to the rim. Sure, he's very physical, but he's just got the ability to kind of slide off people, and he's really, really great touch for a guy that size around the bucket. And, you know, that was just watching him early with all the explosiveness and so on and so forth. Last night, what I really liked with him was how he was able to kind of integrate into what they were doing already. It didn't take anything away from anyone else. He played when he got it in reversal situations and stuff like that. He played quick.

He went straight downhill at people. It wasn't a whole lot of like holding the ball, dancing or anything like that. Like he made his quick move, boom. And he was either by you or he wasn't. And I like that because that's efficient. And I also like he's really, really good at cutting without the ball. and he's such a great finisher that like when those dudes like B.I and C.J. and whoever else had the ball in their hands and they're getting into their,

you know, maybe you got Brandon on a midpost and he's about to get into his bag with his back to the basket. And then boom, there goes Zion on a cut because his man wasn't watching man and ball. And he hit him and now he's finishing around. That's not taking any food off of anybody's plate. It's not taking any usage rate up. It's just getting him, getting him around the rim where there's nobody really in the league now that's going to be able to handle him around the rim. And I just felt it was a really good.

good combination of their three main scores, if you will. I think they're just getting into their bags, respectively. I'm talking about Zion. I'm talking about the Pelicans as a whole. But another guy that's just really getting into his bag at just the right time is Brandon Ingram. You see Brandon Ingram just, like, if you watch him just as a rookie when he was with the Lakers, he would show spurts, but you could tell he wasn't just, he wasn't comfortable

yet. Maybe not, like some parts not comfortable with his body, but other times, just really not comfortable with the NBA in general. now, bro, you saw it in spurts in the first round series against the Suns last year, but now, like, you're seeing him just going into, like, his dark step back, right? You're seeing him just going into his little layup package. He's not, he's not phased anymore, and he's just become way more of a complete score. And honestly, B.I is one of my favorite players are watching in the league right now,

because he's just so even killed, but he has such an offensive back. And he can play defense. He has the defensive capabilities because of his length. He's really good basketball play. Yeah, he's really, really talented. He has a throwback. He's got a throwback game. I mean, he can play anywhere on the floor.

He scores at all three levels. But, you know, it looks like where he learned to play was in that midpost, like that catch back to the basket. He's cold blood. He's an assassin. He's a tough bucket getters. He's top five tough bucket getter in the league because they're almost all contested. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, he just works, works, works. And it's contested. And he's so long. he's over the top. But Stack, you know, Stack was his mentor. Stack played like that a little bit. But he is very, very fun to watch.

And I think when you got a guy like that, you've got a guy like CJ that can handle it and play out of pick and roll and create for himself and others. And then you add that dimension of Zion, who is a problem on top of the rim at all times, either with it in his hands or off of a cut, which you can't account for cuts. Cuts are, you know, I try to tell young kids all the time.

If you watch Steph and you watch those guys, they all get infatuated with how well they dribble it and what they do and whether you cross somebody and get them the fall seven feet back. Man, miss me with all of that. Watch this boy cut. Watch Steph move without the ball. Because that's what I can't guard as a defender.

I can guard you with the ball in your hand. Now, to vary degrees of success, but you can't account for somebody without the ball, just move in every time you turn your head and look away from him, he's gone. And it's hard to game plan for that. You know what it was the most, I want to get back to the,

to B.I. But you want to know one of the most impressive things that I saw last night was Cam Reddish, in the, in the Knicks game, where he hits the three to go, I think it was a hit to three to go into overtime. Everybody sees the three that went into overtime, but no one is thinking about

how he sprinted to that corner and went to go get the ball. And to shoot a three contested like that. And it was nothing but butter. That was one of the most impressive plays that I saw in the first week of the season just to like, just to get to that corner and just have the wherewithal that, like, I need to do that. And that's what that's what people don't see. Well, he better have done it because he was in no man's land where he was. He was down under the goal just standing there.

Like, you had to realize, oh, shit, I got to get out of here. But it was a really good play. And he played well. I was happy for him, you know, but he was coming downhill. He had one on the break. You know, RJ was struggling. RJ had just rebounded. come down, tried the big right shoulder.

Are you talking about when he just got a um on there, when Redis just got the little oop like at the dump? It was right after that, right? Like Barrett had missed the lefty kind of like running layup slash hook. He felt like he got fouled. The next possession, Cam came down. Cam came down. He had two on his left and he just kind of probe, probe.

And then he just took off. Yeah. And again, when you talked about B.I. Not being secure early in his career. Like those are moments that I'm looking at for young players. especially one who Cam's people have been on the fence about that right like not exactly what people thought he was going to be the jury's still out but those plays when I'm watching I'm like okay starting to feel starting to feel comfortable I love the thing that we can just tie it to from

cam to be I they both just had that look in their eye last night like cam had to look in his eye like y'all played me one too many times and I ain't fucking around no more right that was that was the thing the thing about bi and also you brought up CJ is I think you know just over the last few years, we've gotten back to the guys that will, you know, will not just hit a three in your face, but they will also, they will, they will size you up, they will get you in the midpost. It's a lot more skill. We've gotten back to being skilled in the midpost. I think what was celebrated over the last few years, and, you know, obviously the Golden State is probably to blame for this, but we, we prioritizes the league a lot of three and D.

and one of the guys that could, you know, if you can get in the corner, you can make $80 million. You know, if you can play some defense and go in the corner, you may $80 million, which is great, get your bag. But I do like the fact that we are trying to get guys

that are skilled and that can also size you up because that's important too. And I like that from the Pelicans. If all you're doing is shooting threes, and I know analytics people are probably can kill me because I don't care about them really like that.

But if all you're going to do is shoot threes, Yeah, I mean, I can kind of devise a defense for that. I can try to figure that out, right? I can take away. Like being able to score anywhere is what, that's why you bring KD into the mix when you're golden state. It's not for more three points shooting. It's for someone that you could give the ball to when all else fails and he's going to get you a bucket. And most times, you know where that comes from?

What was that? The mid-range. Yep. That's where it comes from for him. Now, like, so when you're now scoring on all three levels, we're talking about complete scoring threats. That's what grades do. That's where, that's where as a defender, I don't know really what to do or try to take away because you've got it everywhere. You can get by me and get to the rim.

You can shoot the three if I try to back up and catch you as you go to the rim. And if push comes to shove and I'm denying the hell out of you, you put me on your back, you work me to a point where I have to play behind you. I can't front you anymore. and now you caught it. I'm on your shoulder, and now we're going to do this mid-post dance. And that's what complete,

well-rounded scores are able to do. And you have to have them on your team. Analytics can bear themselves out through three and three-quarters of a game, and now we're sitting here at 101-101-1-1-1 with four minutes. I got to get a bucket. And I got to be able to give it to somebody who can get a bucket.

And guess what they look like. What they look like, Ra? They look like Brandon Ingram. They look like Kevin Durant. They look like Devin Booker, who does a lot of his work. They look like Luca, he does his a little deeper. But that's what they look like.

They get buckets anywhere. Yeah. And here's the thing, man. And like, this is, I don't want to rail against analytics at all. But good basketball will lead to good analytics. You know, play good basketball. It'll bear itself out on the numbers. You know, like, if you just, if you do the fundamentally sound shit, it will translate.

And just to like, I just, I'm really in love what the Pelicans are doing. But more of the other thing, how much of this has to do with when they caught the Brooklyn Nets? You know what I'm saying, where they caught Brooklyn really early in the process of figuring their stuff out. And Pelicans have already been playing with each other. And they already know, they know their roster. They know their guys. And they have a bit more camaraderie. How much of this was, oh, they caught Brooklyn flat-footed because Brooklyn's still figuring itself out?

Yeah, some of it had to do. How much is hard for me to tell you? How much of that it's hard. But I would say maybe 60-40, 70-30. I think New Orleans is really good. I do have to give some credence to the fact that Brooklyn is really early in this process. They're going to have to figure out how to not get bullied in that paint like that. And Kyrie was off.

So when you rely on Kevin Durant and Kyrie to do most of your scoring, they got to be at least semi on. Or if one of them's off, the other one has to go for just insane numbers. or you're going to have to get a third option to go bananas. And they didn't get that. So you're always going to be behind the eight ball when that happens if you're Brooklyn. But when I watch them and the pieces they brought in, those are really good pieces provided we figure out how to get them involved in what we're doing offensively. They got to figure out how to get them involved.

You didn't bring in, you know, Royce O'Neill and Marquiv. But you don't bring them in. You don't bring them up just to be, just to be, you know, defender. So we've got, that ball's got to move a little bit more in Brooklyn. Yeah. It's got to move. There's got to be some pace. They got to get into it quicker. You know, I know that's tough. When you have two dudes who, you know, could take that ball and hold it for three seconds

and get a bucket and, you know, any way you want it, you tend to kind of play like that. But they, I think they need to, that ball needs to move more. People, you know, they got to get moving. They got to get some flow. Give some other people some opportunities in the flow with that. And then you have to unlock Ben Simmons. They just don't trust each other yet. It's too early.

So I don't really want to like, I don't want to rail against the, the net's just, yeah. I mean, it's just one game, bro. It's just one game, bro. It's just one game. They're one of those teams, again, like I said, when we started that that loss doesn't tell you a whole lot about them. Like, that's not going to be, it's not.

You're going to have to watch that for a while and, and see what that turns into. So I'm not worried about them. But there are some things that I know that they'll need, they'll need to do that to be, to be to be what they want to be. Let's take a quick break. We're going to introduce a new segment, and I'm going to hope Rozzy doesn't kick my ass for the new segment. Tip off the NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook.

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And we are back. It's time for a little edition of real or no real. Corny Game Show music will be coming soon. But this is a way for us to talk around the league, just to get some little quick bites, just around the league, see what we feel. I'm going to throw up some stuff for you, and we're going to see if this team entity or stat is real or no real.

First team, Raja, Atlanta Hawks, real or no real? It's got to win against the Houston Rockets. DeJante went off, Trey went off. Trade and shoot very well. But Atlanta Hawks, real or no real for you, Rara. Real in the sense that those two together are going to be really, really tough to guard. They're going to be a tough win for teams every night. That's going to be a tough matchup.

So I got real. I'm going to go no real just right now. I'm not sold. They played against the Houston Rockets who are as a very, very, very young team. And they're not, they're not ready yet. I don't think it's a good gauge of how the rest of the season going to be. Or maybe I should have asked a question. When you say real or no real, are we talking about real and?

terms of championship threat? Are we talking about real in terms of what this game tells us? What this opening night tells us? I don't think that it tells us that they're real yet. I don't, I'm not, I'm not locked in yet. But I do, I do like them, I will say this, over the off season, I do like them just going for it, right? We're going to trade for Giante Murray.

We're going to put somebody alongside Trey Young. We're going to see what this does, right? We're going to see how, how we do with this. So I like what the Atlanta honks are doing. I just don't think they're real yet. All right. Fair. Real or no real, Raja.

John Morant's MVP case. Real. Real. He's going to be right there, barring injury or anything like that. I mean, he's just, he's electrifying, he's tough,

he's getting better and better every year. Real. Doc, I don't, I watched the game last night, and I don't care if he goes one of 71 in a game. I want John Morant to have the ball every single time. There was a charge drawn down the stretch from Jalen Brunson.

And I don't even care about the charge because John Morant just did a double like scoop pump into the layup into the lane, bro. And I'm just like, I don't think I've ever seen anything like this before. He's like Iverson and Jordan put together. I'm sorry. That was an Iverson Jordan like move. And I had never seen anything like that. It was almost one of those things where it's like ref, bro.

just reward job for doing something amazing. I don't care what, I know Jalen Bretson, and I know that was an amazing charge in a way to sacrifice your body. But bro, you can't co-sign. I know. Can't co-sign on your fandom?

Can't co-sign on your fandom because the charge was huge. It was a huge charge. The charge was critical. I get it. I got a little ahead of myself, but you feel what I'm saying, no, right? That's hard. I'm with you.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. For sure. Definitely real. That MVP, I mean, you know, health is an issue, right? Like, just being healthy enough to put up the numbers over the course of games to keep yourself in the conversation.

But I don't even think it's a debate about skill level and all of that. Like he's going to be in the conversation if they're winning and he's playing. I'm still just like, I'm speechless over what Jabberant did last night. It was just incredible, man. I love the play that they run down the stretch that Tyler Jenkins runs, where he throws it to the middle of the court and just has Jockoing at a full head of steam down. He gives the ball to, like, I don't know, say Triple J, right, if Triple J is in there. Triple J gets the ball.

He's not, I know he's injured guys, but just for the sake of conversation, Triple J gets the ball, middle, like, say three point line, quick bounce pass to John Morant just for just full ahead of steam to see what he does with it. That's my favorite playing basketball right now. Sounds like, it's hard for me to envision it, but it sounds like kind of like blind pig action in the old triangle where he flashed, he flashes John Morant's like higher than him. They throw it to him and then John Moran's. and cuts back door and he drops it off.

It's a little bit modified because I know what you're saying because Kobe used to do that and they would do it on the weak side baseline where he would just get it, where Kobe would just get a dunk. Right here, what they're doing is they just have John Morant at the like basically the other free throw line and he's just running fullhead of steam and getting it. It's just a variation of that play. No, yeah. It's hard to guard that.

So what hurt John Moran, I mean, again, health will help with it. It's when he was out last year, the team just kept winning. Yeah. You know, and unfortunately for him, like, with the optics of that are, when you're talking about MVP, you know, you are phenomenal, but that team wins a bunch when you're not there. I mean, people take that into consideration too.

So I hope he stays healthy, so it works out because he's fun to watch. All right. Real for John Moran's MVP crease across the board. I have this real or no real. I want to talk about the 76ers, man. They got a game tonight against the Milwaukee Bucks. I'm just going to preface this by saying they're real right now, but I did not like what I saw in game one against the Celtics.

I didn't like what I saw. Now, James Hardenballed, but this is something that's going to rear its ugly head for the 76ers, when teams go small. They got to figure out how they're going to play when teams go extra small. and just go at Joelle and Bede defensively. Because Joelle and Bid is their best player. And they got to figure that part out. James Harden is playing well.

If he can consistently play like this, they're going to be fine. But real or no real, Raj's 76ers. Real. I think the Sixers are going to be okay. I think they're going to be fine. Another team where game one, I think it meant a little more to me than it did for Brooklyn, but I'm not panicking after game one yet.

The answer to your question, I mean, Charles Barkley keeps trying to give a team, you and Shaq keeps trying to give it to you. The way when a team, the way that you counter the team going small and exposing you defensively is to bury them and bully the hell out of them when they're going small defensively against you, one of the biggest human beings in the league. Wait, wait, wait, before you said that, before you say that, I saw Shaq, just to even say your, just to elevate your argument, I saw Shaq on Tuesday night against like pregame before

the Warriors game. And like, Draymond went over to dapp him up, which is just like poetic because it shows you everything you need to know about that old school mentality. Um, and like this new school age, a hundred percent Shaq would have just like dominated in this,

in this, in this era, bro. Because they're putting a Draymond green on them. Dog, what? Stop. Draymond is like, it's like two feet compared to Shaq. And the funny thing is Shaq, so when we played the 70, when we played the Lakers, in the 0-1 finals. DeKembe Matumbo, a shout-out deep, prayers up for him and his family.

Yes, sir. He was coming off of defensive player of the year that season. He had just been named defensive player of the year. And Shaq made it his mission to try to cave Dekeme's chest in every time he touched the ball. Yep. No further than three feet, four feet from the basket, five feet max. Just going to bury you. And it actually affected rule change because they were like, yo, you can't allow someone to just,

a defenseless defender to have someone's elbows in his mouth. mouth the whole game and then dunk. Like we can't allow that to happen. But point being, that's where he was going to work against another 7, 3, 7, 4 all-time shot blocking type of sensation. And I would add this to that.

There wasn't nearly as much space because there were multiple big plotting seven footers on the floor. Most of the twos and threes were all working in the paint initially to start action because you were running floppy and hawksets. And it was more mid-range game.

Correct. The game, everything was done closer to the rim, so there wasn't as much space. So I would make the argument now that if everyone is going to be outside

the three-point line, towing it, man, you should be able to really take advantage of all of that space if you are big and you have a favorable matchup, but you have to be willing

to do that. I got a quick rant for you because I'm with you. Big men need to get a lot more shack in this era because they would be so dominant in this era, bro.

I saw Anthony Davis and on Tuesday, call for a lob over Jordan Pool. I was so disrespectful. I was so disrespected because if Shaq sees Jordan Pool or any other big from a certain he sees Jordan Pool, I'm sealing him. He is, you can't even see Jordan Pool and I'm catching the ball and I'm dunking it just really fast.

It's an easy two points. I'm not calling for no lob over Jordan Pool so he can foul me real quick. Why would I do that? And I just think Joelle Embed just, and not to say he does it because he could, but that's the anecdote for the Sixers. Bro, just give me the ball. I'm silling everybody off and I'm dunking it in your face. It's a quick two points.

And then I'll shoot one three a game. Shack would have cursed everybody on that team out if he had Jordan Poole and you didn't give him that ball. Curse everybody out. And we would have been fine with it. Like, yeah, man, we should have got a team. Like, you should have had that ball. And, you know, I feel like that.

The closest, this starts because they don't teach the game like that anymore. If you go into any gym and now I'm on a tangent, right? Let's get it. I'm on one. Let's go. You go into any youth gym around at least my area. And nobody wants to be a big, right? Even the big men don't want to be bigs.

No, yeah. No one wants to be a big, including the bigs. They don't want to learn how to play big. They don't want to learn the nuances of that. And so people have understood that. And it affects their money and their ability to build good teams. So they don't, they're like, all right, no. teach him to be a guard because we want to keep him.

And I'm not lobbying against teaching a big man how to play guard. But what I tell parents is, let me teach him how to be a big first. Like, let me, because you can always take what I teach in terms of big footwork and put that in the mid post. It's the same footwork, Logan. So if you continue to, you know, grow and expand, you become a guard, that if you really need a bucket, you know how to do it on the post. Because those are easy buckets.

So why just completely let go of one part of the game because it's not in vogue and we want all these skills? You can have all of that shit. You know what pisses me off, though, Raja, is that like big man, even the young homies, like, they'll go to the three point line. And what they don't realize is, dog, if you get a quick layup, that just gets you right in rhythm. You could get that three later on because all you got to do is see the ball going in. Why would you want to shoot a three to start when you could just see the ball going in, quick layup here, quick book, Boom, bop right here fade away. Then as the game wears on, boom, I can hit you with that three

when you're not even expecting it. It's a chess match, man. We're trying to take advantage of situations. And if we have a desirable situation on the block, I post up on my eighth grade team, my son ties a five, nine, seventh grader. But if you put a small guard on him because he's our combo, like one, two, I got a smaller one, two, and then he's my other one. If you put, I run a drop to him immediately, boom.

Forget the offense. Forget the offense. Just put him right there. Just put him right there. There we go. We call it turn tie. Boom. We turn somebody off of him, drop that in.

We cut him through and he's going to give you one, two to that jump hook or he's going to drop step you and seal you and get a bucket because we're just, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yep. Nobody's saying you're going to be a big and you'll never handle the ball, but you've got to know how to operate when the opportunity presents itself. you've got to be prepared to be able to take advantage. And so many of them aren't because they're never, ever taught or asked to do that.

Because people are afraid of losing them or disrespecting them or, man, miss me with that. Teach them, right, and give them full bags. Yeah. Like, give them full bags so they can operate. Like, I mess with Janus, the way I do. Because Janus, even though it's not all post up, like sometimes it's coming straight downhill at you, his mindset is I'm bigger and stronger and I'm going to be on top of the rim. So whatever that looks like, but that's where I'm going.

Well, that's the thing just about just aggression in general. I think it's not even a matter of just being mad that they're shooting threes. It's just the mindset of aggression, right? Like, Yana shoots threes, but it's within the context of like, yo, as aggressive as I can. That's what I want to see out of the bigs of today. I just want to see aggressiveness. I don't care that I want the game to evolve.

That's what I want. I don't care about that. But I also want, I also want an aggression that I'm just not. seen out of Biggs right now. Totally. And I want to be clear because I know I get like, I get all in my bag. But it's not saying that the game doesn't evolve and that Biggs can't be outside and be super skilled in play.

It's when we get in a situation like you talked about when we have this mismatch because the team has elected to go really small against us and it's exposing our big in a way defensively that puts us in a tough situation. How do we counter that? We have to be able to counter that by imposing our size and our strength on them on the other end. It's the only way to do that when they're now smaller and quicker than you. And we've got to be prepared. And that's the situation I'm talking about.

When Joel M. B. gets babies, he got to rock him to sleep. Put his ass down there and he's got to punish him. Don't get pushed off. Don't let your catch be four feet off of where you started your post up. Now we're shooting the fade away. Let's not do that. Hold your position, start it two feet lower, turn on his ass and bully him. we got an attention and I'm just going to keep us on this tangent man really quickly like one thing I saw from AD that I just didn't like is he got his buckets against the dubs on on Tuesday but they were all passive you know what I'm saying like he got his 28 who cares though because he was going for fadeaways and like it doesn't matter like we need a baseline level of aggression I I didn't watch that game as

as close. So I can't really, in fairness to AD, really talk about how he got those 28. I would just say that all 28s aren't built equally. Yeah. They don't. They don't represent the same thing. They don't. You have to have, okay, when I'm devising a defense, right?

Yeah. And I'm looking at your team and I'm trying to figure out what we're going to do schematically against your team. something that poses a threat getting downhill to the rim is one of the first things that I have to deal with. Right? Because a good enough player

that punishes you on the inside is a concern. And I don't just mean on a post-up, but I mean, they collapse defenses because people naturally are going to be like, well, what happens when he starts driving into this gap here? What are we going to do with it?

I mean, I don't know a coach in his right mind that's going to be like, you know what I mean? Like there's going to be some plan for that. And so when you're 28 all comes from outside the paint, and I'm not saying AD's did, I'm just talking about it. This was a random player, right?

And you're a really, really good player. And they know that that 28's only going to come from outside the pain or shooting fadeaways and stuff. It just changes the math on how I devise my schematics defensively. Like there's no real threat in the paint. You don't collapse the defense. And so then it makes it easier for me to stay home and take other people away.

So you're 28. To beat me now it's got to be like 45. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Because I ain't letting nobody else get off now. I'm just staying home. Yeah.

It's just interesting just how like we always talk about no point total is created equal. And that's just so true, man, because there's there can be a dominant 21 points. You know? If everything else, there's a good. If you look at the resident stat line, there can be that. That's interesting. Let's table that for now just for, time constraints because Raja, we got some beef.

Not me and you. Not me and you. We got a beef with a friend of the show. We got a beef with a friend of the show. All right. So I was listening to the Dan Levertartre show, Roger. Okay. And friend of the show of Mino Hassan, who said some great things just about the pod.

But he included your name. Your name came up, Raja. And do you know how your name came up? I do not. That would be interesting. You were number five on his. top five flop list of all time, Raja.

So we damn there. So we got a, we got a bone to pick with young Amin over here. Shout out to, shout out to the Levertar show. Shout out to all the homies over there. But we got a bone to pick,

damn it. Who was, who were his top five? Do you remember? So it was him and Stu guys going back and forth. So like, forgive me if I'm like, if I'm missing up there once.

But I will say, Mono Genoblee was in there. Vlad-Divats was. in there. Joel and Bede was in there because Joelle and Bid flops and laughs because he knows he flopped but got away with it because he's a mischievous motherfucker. So it was

a respect thing on Joelle and Bede. Also with all the guys, but it was managing nobody Valle DIVA got number one on both lists, I believe. You were number five on a means. Wow. I mean, it's pretty good company, I guess. Were you a flavre though in spurts?

If I needed to. I was an opportunist, man. That's kind of the way I see it. I never understood. So when I played against like a Manu or somebody like that, you got to flop. I have to flop. Well, you have the infamous double flop. You guys both had an infamous double flop.

The reason I have to flop is because you are going to flop. So I'm going to try to beat you to the flop. You're going to outflop them? I got to outflop you, man. Like, I got to try to work that. But I never understood, like, people do this all the time, especially people that ain't playing no basketball. You know who you are.

No, but like when someone takes a charge in the chest, oh, he flopped. And you're like, no. Like I was in position. Someone hit me in my chest and I fell down. Like there's, if I'm able to withstand, let's say, 200 pounds of force coming at my chest before I fall, right? Let's just say, where in the rulebook does it say I have to take all 200 pounds of pressure in my chest when I'm in a legal guarding position? to earn the charge. Nowhere.

That's not subjective. Like, oh, if you only took 107 pounds of the pressure so you can't go down. That's bullshit. Like, if I'm in legal garden position and I feel like opportunistically, like I've got you in a spot where

you're going to hit me with that shoulder and if I fall down, I'm going to get that call, then I'm doing my job. If that's flopping, then I'm a flopper. But I'm going to stand there until I feel like I've been contacted illegally

and then I'm going to put the ref in a position that he got to make a call. Okay. All right. What did you think of when the league just start finding motherfuckers for flopping? Did he get out of hand at that point? Was it necessary? Or like how should you flop if you're going to flop out here?

Because I feel like there's rules to the game no matter what you're talking about. There's rules to the game. I never got fined for flopping. I didn't think it was absolutely necessary. I mean, people when they were getting fined for flopping, were still flopping and not getting fined. And the game will figure itself out, right? Like the game will always figure it out. It's going to work out.

I mean, offensive players are some of the most, like, flopping always gets a defensive, like, prism kind of put on it. It's like offensive players are some of the worst floppers ever, man. It's fair point. Real talk. Like, they flop all over the place looking for, that's where mine who flopped, and I'm not even beefing. Like, Mano was just an offensive plopper, like throwing his head back.

And so when you play them, you know, there's a level of understanding and, and you got to meet a flop with a flop sometimes. But I ain't really care. I was just out there hooping, man. And the amount of times someone takes, like say a Shane Badiere or myself and you might say, oh, someone flop, do you know how many times I got my chest caved in

on a real drive to earn the right to stand there and not have my chest caved in and still get to charge? Shout out Jalen Brunson. Shout out Jalen Brunson out here, sacrifice his body. Sacrifice it. And so I would just, any coach worth their salt

wants somebody who will wall themselves up and take one for the team. Yeah. My son's coach called me the other day and he was like, hey, man, we really like it, man. He's seventh grade. He's playing JV at a really good high school right now

and they were like, we really, really like him. And you know what the dude said? You know what the first thing he said? Second thing, he said he's really skilled. You know what the second thing he said to me was? What's that? We watch film and he takes like two charges a game. But I'm only saying that to say,

you could have said a lot of things to me about him that you liked, I would guess. But the one thing that brought a tear to your eye was that he took two charges of game. Because that means something to a team. It gets you an extra possession. It gets one of their better players usually in some foul trouble. It deters people from assaulting your rim because they think that if they leave the floor, you might step under them. And so it just, it's value.

Because people think that like blocking shots is going to make a difference. And it does. Don't get it wrong. But especially if you're a smaller, team, if you can sacrifice your body and just get one charge at just the right time, that'll make the big thing totally different coming down the lane or anybody totally different coming down the lane. If you're there about to, Kyle Lowry was perfect at that.

He used to do that all the time, still does. Like, if you sacrifice your body at just the right time, it could really be a game changer. And it sends an unselfish message. It is an unselfish act. You don't get any glory for it. It's telling your team, hey, man. This is how badly I want this shit. Maybe I can't dunk on people or score 30 a game.

I don't handle the ball and pick and roll and make all the assist. This is my body and I'm giving it to you guys for a chance to win this game. It is one of the most unselfish things you can do. Yeah, man. That was real. Shout out to Amin. Shout out to everybody over to the Levertar show. Shout out to y'all.

Yeah, facts. Facts. All right, man. Good episode. But, you know, we don't let a Thursday episode go by without a little segment we like to call real one of the week. we shout out a person, organization or entity that just won the week.

I am going to go. I hope I get the accent right. I hope I get it right. Paulo Benchetto. I'm going to go with him. Did I do it good? Was it serviceable? Did I get it?

Hold it down for it. If you want to do it, hold it down. No, you got it. All right. I'm going to go with Paulo who had the best debut for a rookie since LeBron James. Got 25 and 5 in his first game. Listen, if the Orlando Magic

Make a comeback, it's going to be fun. That's going to be fun. Shout to my homie, Kobe Price, who's holding it down for the Orlando Sentinel. He's covering it over there, man. He's doing the damn thing. So we'll go with Paolo Benchetto as my real one of the week.

Roger, he's your real one of the week. So my one of the week, I spoke about him briefly earlier in the show is one of the one. One of my favorite vets, DeKembe Matumbo, who announced that he was going through treatment for a brain tumor and all of our prayers are up for DeKembe. DeKembe was one of my vets when I got to Philly. And DeKembe used to look out for all of us in a way that very few dudes did. Like you could tell that he cared about you.

We'd be on the road and he knew we didn't know anybody. He'd have us out to dinners. He'd hook us up with different things professionally that were going to mean stuff to us. He always had us under his wing. And, you know, my prayers and my family's prayers go out to his family and him. But a real one. I know he's going to be our right. He's going to fight and get it tightened up.

But he is a real one because he held us all down when we were young in the league and taught us the ropes of how to be professionals. And that meant a lot. And in some cases, meant careers. So shout out to Deke for being a real one. That's what's up, man. That was another edition of Thursday, Real Ones. We'll see you back on Monday, and we got a special guest for you guys.

So make sure you be on a lookout for that, man. Tap in, man. We'll see you guys soon. Holla.