The Ringer NBA Show - The NBA’s Radical Proposed Schedule Shakeups. Plus: Is Giannis as Big a Star as He Deserves to Be? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 26, 2019

We break down the ins and outs of the proposed changes to the NBA schedule, including playoff reseeding, the midseason tournament, and more (2:00). Then, we talk about the NBA’s dip in TV ratings this year, wondering whether it has anything to do with the Western Conference's being loaded and a dearth of Eastern Conference stars (33:51). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Chris Vernon. and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Climber, A.K.A. Kevin O'Camombo, A.K. Kevin O'Camro, Candyland, Kevin Opinionated, Kevin O'Crescent. Kevin! Burno, do you just rattle those off the top of your dome,

or do you have a list and you just pull them off it? I usually just rattle them off. I have compiled a list before when I want... When I'm feeling forgetful. I'm glad you have that for reference, Chris. We need a master list of all of them. There has been a lot that has taken place since we last spoke. Kevin, and we last spoke on Friday.

So much. Over the weekend, news broke from Adrian Wardenowski and Zach Lowe that there could be sweeping changes ahead for the NBA. And you wrote about this through the perspective of not only that there are European players, most exclusively Luca, that are taking hold in the NBA, but also that Adam Silver has professed in the past that he likes something. of the ideas that he can glean from soccer and the way they're set up. So let's take these one by one.

The first one is an in-season tournament that would be proposed, that would take place, you know, around Thanksgiving time through the first couple of weeks of December. My initial reaction to this was, oh, cool. And then it was, so what do they get? and there seems to be no great answer as to what they get. I mean, the only thing that I have, you know, gathered is that there would be some kind of financial state. But, I mean, you can't tell me that. You can't say, then there'll be some kind of financial stake like that.

There has to be some kind of great reward for winning the tournament. Otherwise, why would the players, organizations, and fans even care? You know, it's an interesting problem and an interesting conversation. especially in regards to the mid-season tournament, because this is so foreign to the NBA, but it's such a normal thing in European soccer and European basketball. For them, it is, but for fans in North America, it's not.

And I think it is important for the league when this is proposed and maybe when it's approved to come up with a pretty clearly defined type of reward, whether it is compensation for players and coaches, whether it is something like I put in my article today, such as wins are worth extra in the regular season standings or whether there's some type of team award, like draft increase draft odds or something like that.

There needs to be some type of reward in that sense. However, I think the league's stance is that the thrill of competition just takes over like it does on some of these international tournaments that take place. And maybe overtime tradition builds, and this becomes a point of pride for teams. So you can say, you know, the Utah Jazz went to two NBA finals and won one, but they also won three straight cups and the Thanksgiving Cups, whatever the name would be.

And it becomes a point of conversation and a point of pride for fan bases across the league. And that very well may happen, which is why I tend to take the stance here, Chris, that I think we need to be looking at this as fans and as media and as the league as just something to try because what's happening right now is not working. We know it's not working with ratings either dipping or staying the same in some cases and there being a lack of interest and guys like Yana Sancta Kumpa, one of the best players in the game dropping 50 points and last night, last night's game against the Utah Jazz. And I think for the league, this is at least worth experimenting with. And if they try it and there's no interest and it flops, they can pull the plug in a couple years. That's the way I look at it.

But it's worth experimenting with something new and something innovative by the NBA standards because what's happening now isn't working. And I appreciate the open mind and this to that. I am totally with you on this. I like trying whatever, especially during these. late fall months where football, like people don't really, if Christmas Day always feels like the day where people start really tuning in to the NBA and paying attention. And the first couple of months of the season can get lost. And so why not have some kind of reason beyond the 82 games that they are, you know,

the reason to tune in. And single elimination is always fun. It's always fun. If somebody's getting knocked out of something, that's fun. I just want the reward to be great. I actually like your idea about the increased draft odds because, look, a lot of these changes are being made, yes, because of interest, at least TV ratings-wise, and I'll get to that a little bit later, being down.

But beyond that, you had teams that were actively attempting to be bad. They knew they would go into the season to be bad. And so what they did is they flattened out the lottery odds. We already saw that take major shape last year and have a grand effect. They're doing a lot of these things to de-incentifies teams to be bad and instead encourage them to try to be as competitive as they could possibly be. With that being said, you do. I mean, look, we have had teams simply because of the draft and we know how important it is to them. we have had teams draft-wise decide that they are just going to punt on the last two months of the season.

That's how much it matters to them. So anything draft-related, I do think, is a great incentive. I don't know how necessarily you pull that off, but I would certainly bring that to the table as something that should be discussed because I do think that matters. That matters more to franchises than money does. I mean, we tried doing this with the All-Star game. They don't give a crap. They pay them more money now. It doesn't matter.

Like, unless you're going to make something like the dunk contest, you know, a $10 million reward, you're not going to get the best of the best. But if you made it $10 million, you'd get everybody in the dunk contest or whatever it would be. That's why compensation isn't enough for most players. For some players it is, right? For the 13th, 14th, 50th guy in the roster, they're on a two. a contract or a league minimum one year deal as a second round pick, then the money matters.

But to most players, it doesn't. Well, for organizations, the draft thing would matter. The question is, how do we get the players to care about winning the tournament? You know what I'm saying? Well, I mean, that's what the NBA's stance is here. And I, you know, that just the spirit of competition would take over. That it's a one and done single elimination tournament. and that in this type of format, players have at least shown from what I've been told

an interest in this type of format because for some guys, like take someone like Ben Simmons, for example, he didn't get to play in the NCAA tournament. This is a way for guys like him or guys are knocked out early or didn't even play college basketball to get that thrill in an NBA setting. So there's a chance that would happen. I don't necessarily think that players will. would all be load managed or if they would sit out. I think it's something that is worth trying because of the possibility that players are

just really into this because it seems like in those conversations between the NBA, between the players association and between the broadcasting partners, that it's something they're at least encouraged by that there would at least be players having interest without necessarily a significant reward in return, though they, I think they should have that. Yeah, I am with you. That's the only thing.

I want, I am fine with an in-season tournament. I just want the reward for winning it to be great. That's it. In my article today on the ringer I reported, let me preface this, a ton of stuff has been proposed or discussed or debated in these meetings. Virtually anything you can think about has been mentioned. But two of the ideas that I mentioned in my article today, one would have been in this single elimination knockout tournament.

the wins could be worth double towards regular season standings or the league could entirely change or eliminate the win loss system and use a point system, which we see in the NHL here in North America, we see in the EPL, the Premier League, in the World Cup.

Are either of those types of formats something that you would be interested in, Chris, moving forward in the NBA? I do think if the wins were worth double, yes. Not the point system, though. The point system, you know, look, The reason that the point system to me, it makes more sense in hockey and in soccer, is because of ties and because of the way they do their overtimes and about being able to get a point while still either not winning, basically. And I don't want any part of that.

Because look, there's a winner and a loser in basketball. You're never going to end in a tie. There's a winner and a loser. And I don't want to go to like a sudden death. but yeah I think if you made the if you made the wins worth double yeah that would incentivize guys

I mean and that and that also though creates new potential issues though something like that because then you can have teams you know theoretically having more wins and losses over 82 you could theoretically have a team that wins the tournament deciding oh we already

clinched our playoff spot or clinch the one seed and now we're going to rest guys in April like you could that could happen to like reverse load management because they won the tournament. Now they're resting guys in April in the lead up to the actual playoffs. So there's a whole new set of issues. Any type of idea you come up with. And we'll get to some more of those when we talk about the postseason playing tournament.

But there's issues no matter what. There's issues now. There's issues with the proposed, you know, changes. I just tend to just side with the fact that I am all in favor of experimentation. and I hope these things do go through when the Board of Government meetings does happen in April. Yeah, maybe if there is something tied to,

all right, if you don't want to do the wins double because you can't even everything out, maybe there's something tied to the end of the season. Maybe there's something tied to, you know, the playoffs and or seeding and or having the opportunity to play in. Because here's the other thing. We are already talking about it,

and let's get to the next thing, the idea of having a playoff. in for 7 and 8 and 9 and 10. And I will tell you, Kevin, I love this. Yes. I love it. I'm on the same page on this. I'm all for it.

I absolutely love it. You remember how fun. And this is what the league is talking about. How great was it the last day of the regular season a couple of years ago when we saw that Denver, Minnesota game for everything. Yes. I love the wild card in baseball. I love that one game.

I love it. It's been a massive success in baseball. And you mentioned that Denver, Minnesota game. That's been brought up to me multiple times in conversations with people around the league. Because that day, that day was awesome. It was at first of all, it's a great game. It went to overtime between Denver and Minnesota. The build up to that with Minnesota not being in the playoffs for over a decade,

with Denver winning six in a row to put themselves in that game with a chance to get the eight seat in the West. And the fact, and this is wild to me. It was the first final day playing game in 21 years in the NBA. And so without a playing tournament, we may not get another one of those for over two decades. But here's the problem. That game was not a national TV because it wasn't scheduled for national TV. So either the NBA needs to have greater ability to flex games to national TV or the league needs to have this playing tournament with a 7, 8, nine and 10 seeds. I'm 100% off for it because it creates a game and a system that has that

excitement and that thrill every single April team is pushing for the postseason. Well, and not to mention, Kev, you know, if we're talking about incentivizing the maximum amount of teams to be competitive, right? That everybody's giving their best effort. You can go pretty deep on this. I get it. They could say, oh, well, we don't want some of these rat teams in the playoffs anyway. But here's where I am on this. If you look back at, you know, say there's going to be years

where if there's 15 teams in a conference, whoever was 13th is probably not that far off from whoever is 10th. Okay? So, let's say last year, right? 9 and 10 were the

Kings and the Lakers. Okay? Those are the two teams that would have been 9 and 10 So LeBron would have made the playoffs last year. You don't imagine. Imagine the thrill. Well, Brom played only 55 games.

They get the 10 seed. Yes. And then they win the matchup versus the Kings. And then they face the seven or the eight, whoever lost that for a chance to get up to the postseason. And then another eight seed. Okay. And they go round one matchup.

That would be awesome. So from the Lakers, if you just go down from there, they were to the 10, right? Phoenix is the only team in the league. They won 14 less games than everybody. So they were 18 off, okay? But Minnesota was one game back of the Lakers.

The Grizzlies, four games back. Pelicans, four games back. Mavericks, four games back. I mean, when you're talking about all those teams, those teams are all within four of ten. And so do you conduct yourself a little bit differently the last month, two months of the season, or maybe the entire season,

Do you conduct yourself differently? Because you know it is much better for us if we can somehow even get to 10 or 9. At least we're getting playoff basketball for our fans. We've got a chance once we get there. And some of these teams that start off real slow are somebody that incurs some kind of great injury. Like, let's say with the Warriors, if they were to get Curry back, right? Like maybe they would have a chance at getting to 10. there's no chance that they're getting to eight,

but they might be able to get to 10. So I am all for this. You could have as many, if you take last year, let's just say last year, 14 out of the 15 teams in the Western converts could theoretically care about, you know, being playoff teams.

Just even if it's just, you know, an off chance, and you are certainly going to be the underdog in most cases, but they're all within four games of each other. from 10 to 14. And so incentivizing teams to be good, incentivizing the maximum amount of teams not to punt on a season and make those games meaningless the last month. I love it.

I absolutely love. This is by far my favorite of the ideas that they are talking about. Let me agree with you that I love this as well. But there are some issues that need to be ironed out here because if you do have a playing tournament with the 7, 8, 9, and 10 seeds in each conference. How does that affect the lottery odds? Is that something that needs to go,

undergo another revision to account for the fact that are you going with standings from before the play in tournament? Are you going with standings from after the playing tournament? And does that create a new set of issues? Will you have teams tanking out of the sixth spot to get into the play in tournament for additional revenue, for an additional game, additional national TV game and everything that comes with it, if you do the standings before the tournament, could a team potentially go into the 10 seed

and get higher lottery odds but still make the playoffs? Or if you do the standings after the plan tournament, can a team potentially get the seventh seed but then lose but still get lottery odds? I don't know. I don't have answers to this. Nobody has talked to does either. I would not worry about that in the least. Really?

No. What? You're going to lose that revenue? Possibly, you're going to have a much worse chance because you are not going to have that great of a chance. If you are, as I understand it, the way they have proposed it, if you are seven and eight, you need to win one game. If you are nine to ten, you have to win two games. Correct. So nobody's going to tank to get down there to get, I mean, because you're still not getting some kind of amazing.

amazing lottery odds. The math isn't in your favor in that way. Sure, but you can still get odds. You still have odds. Yeah, but it's a math. It's a math equation. You would be insane to do that. The difference between six and ten is not great enough, especially when you would have the opportunity to play theoretically a weaker team. Regardless of the theoretical decisions teams would make, there still needs to be changes made to the lottery odds. That's that's the main point. regardless of the theoretical. But if you're six, let's say last year, let's do that again, right? And by the way, I mean, the Lakers had the 10th best odds last year and then they moved up to the fourth pick. So it can happen.

Yeah, well, I mean, if you had six last year, you don't want your second round opponent to be the Warriors. You're not going to tank down for a draft something. And then if you win your series, they didn't have to play the Warriors

into the Western Conference finals. Forget about the theoretical. vertical aspect for a minute. They still need to iron out the lottery odd aspect again when that just changed. That's very, very minor. That's minor. Maybe it is. Maybe it is.

And maybe this is an opportunity to get even better changes in. That's always possible too. All right. The other one is, and this is the last of them, which is a big one, is receding the conference finals. All right. My initial reaction was, I hate this. Really?

Yeah. I do. I hate it. I like it being West versus. East, and unless you are going to have a balanced schedule, that to me is not right. Because it's easier to, it has been easier to win 55 or 60 games in the Eastern Conference than it has in the Western Conference. And so if you are going to, I understand the whole we want to get the two best teams,

but it's hard to delineate the two best teams when you were talking about one team plays in a conference where there could be a bunch of good teams. I mean, look, the eight seed in the Western Conference had 48 wins. I think you and I both agree, Sacramento and L.A., if we would have put them in the East, they'd have been playoff teams last year. Even teams below that, the Lakers, the Timberwolves, maybe even the Pelicans, like those teams, they would have chances at being in the playoffs if they're in the Eastern Conference. So, I mean, those are, you play a much higher level of competition last year if you're in the West. So how is that fair?

How is it fair that it gets receded by regular season record? That's what I don't like. I don't want to get reseeded by regular season record unless you are going to play a balanced schedule. But as long as the Western Conference plays the Western Conference more and the Eastern Conference less and the Eastern Conference plays itself more, that's total wins in order to reseat it. That's not right.

That's not right to me. Well, and that ties also to the one of the other issues with the in-season tournament, that if you're using divisional play-in game, if you're using divisional games to determine who gets into the playing tournament, every division is imbalanced as well. So it's the same thing that you're mentioning with the conferences, that certain divisions are stronger than others. And ultimately, I'm with you in that sense that I don't like the fact that the conferences

are so in balance. And that, that touches on a whole greater issue where I think I've long sided of the fact that I would rather have a league with no conferences at all. And I would rather have a 16 tournament without any regard to conferences. I prefer me personally, I would like a 58 game schedule. Every, every team plays twice, perfectly balanced, headed to the postseason with 16 teams in the postseason, no conferences. And then you could also have maybe one or two midseason tournaments to make up for the lot. games. That's my ideal NBA regular season schedule. But what they have now, it seems like a half measure. And I'm, I'm interested in it. I think it could create more interesting matchups

in the conference finals. You have an increased probability of a, you know, a matchup you may never see otherwise with two cross finalists facing off in the, in the, whatever, the conference finals at that point. I don't know. I, I feel like the, there's also something kind of nice about the Lakers facing off against, you know, the Bucks, teams that face each other only twice during the regular season. I tend not to care as much about that. I do. I like the West versus the East.

I want to keep that intact. You know, look, I am all for innovation. This is where I, yeah, this is where the traditional stuff gets to me. I don't want to see the, the Warriors and the Rockets and the NBA finals. I like West versus East. I like, they play their conference. The West plays their conference. conference, whoever comes out of those two conferences gets to play each other. I mean,

this is not, you have to remember, this stuff is not going to be this way forever. I, it is, it is hard for me to understand why the West has been so much better than the East for so many years. But you're thinking about the long view here. And things are not going to be the way they are forever. And so that feels like being a prisoner of the moment, possibly, to try to do something like that. And I just don't think it needs to be done. I don't, I don't think it needs to be done. And I hate the win total thing determining it. I don't think that's right. Yeah, well, because wins aren't necessarily indicative of which team is actually better.

Well, it's just easier to get 60 wins in the east. Of course. Yeah, no, exactly. You know, you know, the best regular season record last year was the Milwaukee Bucks. That's why, that's why, like I said, I don't, I don't really care quite as much about seeing Bucks Lakers. cross finalists in the actual NBA finals. I think it would still be nice to see that in the second round or the third round. It doesn't make a difference when you see it in my eyes.

I also think it could be a really unbelievable thing if in the actual finals you saw these two teams that battled each other five times over the course of the regular season go at it again for potentially seven more epic games too. I don't care as much about the traditionalist aspect of it. I just want what's fair. And that's where for me, it's about getting rid of conferences rather than this type of half measure that they're, that they are potentially proposing with just the conference finals actually being receding. I think it's, I think it's, again, I think it's worth experimenting with because it moves you toward, at least in my vision, my ideal world for the NBA with no conferences. Because if it's a success and if it's something that's of interest, maybe then the league's like, why?

don't we just recede the entire playoffs? And then that's one step closer to getting a truly, truly balanced schedule for the NBA. Because you're not going to get at all in one swing that just doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way in politics. It doesn't work that way in sports. It doesn't work that way in virtually anything, like it or not. So for the NBA, this is at least one step forward towards what I would imagine is the ideal for the NBA.

So I'm overall happy for it and would hope it happens, even though it's, not perfect. All right. So you would like reseeding. I'm for all three of the big proposals. Receding in season tournament and playing tournament primarily because I am for where it's heading. It's not all the way to where

it needs to be and there are solutions that need to be ironed out, but it heads towards my ideal for the NBA. I just, I want that to happen first for the interest of fairness. I want that to happen first. Play a league, that's fine. Throw them all in a pot. And like the

NFL, you know, you can have your divisions, but what we are going to do is we're at least going to have a balanced schedule where everybody's playing everybody, you know, you might play your division more, but that's it, right? And then you are playing a more balanced schedule because until that is the case, it's not right to me to determine your playoff seating once you get to the biggest moment of the year based upon a regular season win total where you got to play a significantly easier schedule. than another team. That's not right.

It's interesting though, because it's not like other leagues have balanced schedules. NFL certainly doesn't. No, but it is more balanced. Is it? Yes, absolutely. You play your division, right, two times each,

so that gives you six games. Your 10 other games, you are playing another division from the other conference, which constitutes four of your games. Okay, you only have 16 games, 16 games overall. A fourth of your schedule is played against a random conference from the other, or a random division from the other conference.

Yeah, it's balanced over the course of time. Yeah. Between seasons. Like, not just one individual season though. Right. But I mean,

that evens out. You know what I mean? Like, I mean, you can't, you can't say, look, I mean,

I know your Patriots have had it easy for over a decade. They get six wins virtually every year by playing their division. That's a myth. But that's a conversation. It's a, it's a myth. you can look at the numbers. We're talking about a myth.

You can look at the numbers that the bills, the jets, and the dolphins have put up. You can look at the numbers they've put up in comparison to the bottom three and every other division in football. And you will see some surprising numbers, Chris, that were against what you just said. What is the best season that any of those three have had in the last decade? They have not been good. But you can, like I said, you can look at the bottom three and other divisions that see. The bottom three in other divisions. They have faired comparably.

They are not comparable. Or poorly, depending how you want to look at it. None of them have done dick for a decade. They're not comparable. In the last decade, the bills, the dolphins. I don't have the numbers right in front of me, but I will look them up. I do have the numbers. If we want to pause, if we want to take a time out on this conversation right here,

I will pull up the numbers and do the research. I mean, for goodness sakes, it was like they got butt-furt. Bumble guy that went to a couple of, uh, that went to an AFC championship once or twice. I mean, that's what they had. The bills, the dolphins? What? These are more abundant franchises. Bro, you're the only person in America that is arguing on behalf of the bills, the dolphins,

and the frigging jets. Point being, what do you think their win percentage ranks this century compared to other divisions? I have no idea. It's first. We're counting the Patriot. Take the Patriots out. Yes. You can take, you're taking the first team out of it every year. You're taking, you're looking only at the bottom three. That's what I was asking.

The second, third, and fourth place teams. They finish first in one percentage against other divisions. Because every other team. They finish first. And so maybe one of the reasons those teams are beating up on each other. Maybe it's because they're losing to the Patriots who have beating up on everybody. for the whole century. It's a myth. Have those teams been good for a while?

No, they haven't. They've stunk for a while, like you said. But this century, they have a better one percentage against the rest of the league. It's true.

Oh, my God. You Patriots fans. You're unbelievable. All right. Last thing. Because you do everything to diminish their greatness. What we're seeing now. What are you talking about?

I have no, I'm not even a patriotator. You just, you just said they get six. You've got to be a lunatic. You just said they get six free wins. every year. They do.

Okay, so is that not trying to diminish the greatness of a team? They are the spurs of the NFL. They are modern 60 Celtics. What we're seeing is unbelievable. It's beautiful to watch. It's beautiful to watch. It's beautiful to watch, Chris. It was beautiful.

It was beautiful on Sunday. The referee steal a game. And Mike Pereira is defending it. Unbelievable. By the way, the NFL propaganda. referees on the broadcast. Oh, my God. Every Sunday.

Troy Aitman should be given an award for what he did on Sunday, standing up to Mike Pereira. He should be given an award. He should go immediately to the broadcasting Hall of Fame, in my opinion, for what he did. I mean, for God's sake, Troy Aitman's had 75 concussions, and he knows what the hell he's talking about. Unbelievable.

What is Mike Pereira's excuse? Unbelievable. Dude, his excuse is he's doing propaganda for the NFL. That's a perr is. Mike Pereira is. All right. Yeah, Perreira, yeah. Yeah, move over Clark and Mays.

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All right. We are in unison. We like the in-season tournament. I want to get a good reward for it. We are in totally on playoff, or I mean a play in into the playoffs. We are also in on, well, I am not on reseeding. You like reseeding. But certainly the overarching sentiment from both of us is we are all in favor of change.

That being said, Kev, there is a, you know, there's this underlying. thing of growing interest in the NBA because ratings are down. And I have thoughts on this. And this has changed. My perspective has changed because I have a 9-year-old son who loves the NBA greatly. He does not see the two biggest by far. It's not even close. The two biggest stars in the NBA are LeBron James and Steph Curry to a kid.

It's not even close. and those two players are both on the West Coast. And so their games are played late. I know they have tried to move up these times. But when you have spent the last 30 years building up the NBA to promote superstars rather than teams, individuals, rather than teams, this can happen. And when you think about a lot of the great players in the league, if they're playing on the West Coast and they're playing after a lot of people,

People need to get up for work in the morning. People, and certainly kids are not able to stay up for those games. You're talking like over 75% of the country does not live in the Pacific time zone. And so that is late. And it is super late on the East Coast, which has the greatest amount of population. And so this is kind of a function of, in my opinion, your biggest stars being in time zones where it's very difficult to watch them unless you're going to catch them. on a weekend.

By the way, the other one, you know who else is huge? Kevin Durant, and he's not playing this year. So the only one of the three biggest stars is LeBron, and he's playing on the West Coast, and he's on a team with Anthony Davis. Kauai has pushed his way into superstardom, but he's playing on the West Coast now, as is Paul George, who sells shoes to,

as is Damien Lillard, who kids like and sells shoes. I mean, really the only guys that are not playing in, you know, of the huge ones is Janus. He's kind of like the central eastern time zone guy right now. I mean, it's Janus, Hardin, Luca, Westbrook, all central time zone as well. And it would have been Zion. Zion would have been huge. And he will be huge. Who's the best player on an East Coast time zone team?

Is it Embeded, is it Beal? Is it Seacom? Yeah, right. And I'm telling you that kids. and adults, for that matter. They don't, those guys are not superstars. And I'm talking about, like, the average American knows who they are,

not the average NBA fan. Or certainly the serious NBA fan. They're not, like, Joe L. Embed is not a superstar in the sense that the average American knows who that is. There's very few that have crossed over completely to where they are like famous famous

like they are American famous like Durant is in that category I would say LeBron is in that Steph is in that those are the ones that I think I could walk down a random street and I could find unanimously everybody would know who those people are

and that's essentially you know the core of the issue here and where I don't have any ideas for the solution and it's like you, if you're a casual NBA fan this morning and you go to ESPN.com forward slash NBA. And you look at the top headlines. It's first of all, the main article is something by Tim Bond Tems about Kemba Walker. Then the top headlines are LeBron, credits the spurs for his improvement from three.

It's about the Blazers winning behind Carmelo scoring 25. It's about Embed being held scoreless. It's about Celtics ruling out Kemba. it's about Josh Hart clarifying his Lakers remarks. It's about Thunder guard Hamadu Diablo being out for four to six weeks. To find Janus scoring 50 points, you have to scroll down the page past Stephen A talking about and B going scoreless, past a Royce Young article, past an undefeated article. And then, only then do you find that Yonnas sent it a cumpo,

one of the three best players in the league dropped 50 points last night on the Utah Jazz. And yes, Rudy Gobert didn't play. That's fair. But if Patrick Mahomes has a huge game for the Kansas City Chiefs or Mike Trout hits three home runs or something like that happens in another sport to a star player in a non, you know, major big team, big market, that's big news. the next thing. Why do you think that is? But it would be big news if like, Kauai hits a game winner that is plastered everywhere. So this is a specific to Janus thing. Why do you think that is? Why do you think Yonis having a 50 point night is not splattered everywhere the same way as if many of his peers did it? I don't know.

And I'm sure I'm sure Bucks fans right now listening are screaming big market bias, the corrupt national media, including you guys, Verno and KOC, wants Yonis to go to a big market. That's probably what Bucks fans are shouting out. I do not. I hope he's a buck forever.

Yeah, me too. I would love to have another dirk. I would think it would be awesome if Yannis were to stay in Milwaukee and become another dirk. Those guys are going to become more and more rare

as we move forward across sports, not just the NBA. I think it would be a great story if that were to happen. But with that said, it's a reality. And like, that's no knock against ESPN. I'm sure they know what people are clicking. They know what people have interest in. They have all the metrics here. Yeah. Right. And, and there's a reason why Josh Hart clearing up his Lakers remarks is in that top headline slot over Yanna scoring 50.

There's a reason why Carmelo at his mid 30 scoring 25 points in his fourth game back in a Blazers win is in that slot. There's a reason why for that. I don't know if it's just small market, though, because I feel like, look, when I looked at the headlines, you know what? Carmelo Anthony having the big night against Chicago, that was splattered everywhere. You couldn't miss it. That happened. And there was a ton of stories about that. I feel like if Damien Lillard would add 50, it splattered everywhere.

So I don't know if it's market size. I don't know what the thing is with typically. if a superstar scores 50 points, it is massive news. And I agree with you. That Janus thing, I didn't even know what happened. I went to a game last night, and I did not even know it happened until this morning when I was scrolling through everything. Is it because for Janus, he's so great, it's becoming normal? No.

No. You don't think so? No, because I was well aware of what Luca did over the weekend. And that was during an NFL Sunday. Yeah. You know what I mean? But Luca is the shiny new toy hair. Janus just won an MVP.

It's really his fourth year to row of having games like this. Obviously, he's gotten better each season, but it's become normal for him. At some point, does the luster wear off Luca? I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe Luca is the new golden boy, and he's the guy that kind of gets chosen as the next face of the league and everything he does off the court, you know, on the court becomes a national loser.

I don't know. I don't know that. But it's just interesting to me that Yannas can have a game like that. And again, granted, Rudy Gobert did not play, which is one of the big reasons why Yannis had the success he did. Earlier in the season when Milwaukee faced Utah, they did a good job containing Yannis by building a wall around Gobert with Gobert to contain some of Janus's devastating drives. Whereas last night was a dunk party for Yannis. And he hit his threes, scoring. but it's just interesting to me because

I think that sort of touches on everything that we're talking about here. Then Yonnas kind of a night like that. And it's just not really a conversation this morning besides in the way that we're having it. And I'm not sure how other pods or other TV shows are talking about it, if at all. But it's just interesting to me.

A couple other things that did happen last night that we do need to touch on. Mark Gassol is the Joel M. Bid stopper. Dude, he's so good. And this way, like, he's just got a, he, and obviously, you know, I covered Mark for many, many years. Here's the thing. In today's NBA, it is very rare for somebody, for the center just to get to worry about the center on the other team. That typically you are trying to stop rim runners. You're stuck in between on screen and rolls all the time.

you're trying to quarterback the defense. You know, and I'm talking about somebody that takes the kind of pride that Mark does. And I will tell you, is covering him for so many years. He is a guy that if he has a center matchup, if it's him against another guy, and all he has to worry about is the other guy. He doesn't have to be, you know, that guy is not just going out and setting high screens the entire time. That drives him crazy, like having to go against the Capellas and the D'Andre Jordans and

all that kind of stuff because you end up, he's out there guarding Steph Curry. or getting switched on to guards or whatever it could be. But if he just has to worry about a center, and he proved last night, he is still absolutely awesome. And it just doesn't happen all that much. But in the matchups where it can just be me versus that guy, he has always been great, always.

There's a great post by my buddy on NBA Reddit, Lewin-Jean and Joe Lombie, since 2017 among players that have guarded Joelle Embed for at least 50 possessions. Marcus Sol over 317 possessions is holding Embed to the fewest points per 100 possessions of any player, any opposing big man. And that's a stat representative of everything that you just said, Chris, that Gasol has been a true Embed stopper. And last night's game holding him to zero points was just extraordinary.

And part of that's on Embed not being quite as efficient as a score this season as he's been in the past. His decision making forcing passes rather than kicking it out to average or below average shooters has not been good. His playmaking needs to get better. His decision making still needs to get better. And frankly, his shooting has not gotten as better as you would have hoped for either. So Embed, very, very good player, a great player because of his defense. But on the offensive end of the floor, showed his limitation. partially because of Marcus Soul's greatness on that end.

All right. Another thing we do need to mention, Carmelo Anthony. Mellow! Yeah, his throwback night. What about the, I was reading a story about this game this morning. It said that the crowd started, when he was on the bench, they started chanting, we want Mello and bring back Mello like into the game. In Chicago?

I was like, what the hell? What is going on? And the other thing is Chicago is now, six and 12 overall could very easily be five and 13 if it weren't for the crazy heroics of Zach Levine over the weekend in that game against Charlotte. But they're six and 12 overall and three and seven at home. I really thought the Bulls would be better than what they have been so far through the first 18 games of the season. What do we make of six and 12, three and seven at home, and evidently a crowd, more excited about

Carmelo Anthony coming back in a game. Well, their defense is an utter joke. Yeah. That's the main issue. And I think a lot of that comes down to Jim Boylan with his defensive schemes. He has in pick and rolls, for example, and last night, when Damien Lillard would run a pick and roll with either Hassan Whiteside or Scala Vesee A setting a screen, typically Chicago has its center come up and show or hedge on that ball handler.

and that requires a lot of back end rotations from the wing, guys like Kobe White or Zach Levine or Thaddeus Young or Laurie Markinen on the back end to make proper rotations. And those proper rotations typically do not happen. That's partially on the players. That's partially on the coaching for going with this more aggressive scheme. I think it would probably be more beneficial for Boylan to go with a typical scheme that you see across the league now with a drop defendant. which weren't in hemorrhage quite as many corner threes

like we saw from Carmelo last night or Carmelo was able to attack closeouts against the rotating defender and just get to the rim because that defender was forced to rotate on a pick and roll. So I think a lot of that comes down to Boylan scheme

that opened the door for Carmelo just take advantage of some wide open gaps in that just horrific, pathetic Chicago Bulls defense. Yeah, they just have not, the only guys that they have had playing in all 18 games are Zach Levine, Lori Markinen, Kobe White, Wendell Carter, Thaddeus Young, Satteransky, and Chris Dunn. Oh, I guess Archie Diakano has played in them too.

We know they lost Otto Porter to the injury, but Otto Porter wasn't good in the nine games that he played. And Markinen has taken a step back, Kev. He's not been good. 14 and 7? I mean, this is... Well, tell me it's just efficiency numbers. That's even more alarm.

ring. Tell me those. Yeah, right. So we got 36% from the field, 28% from three. Yuck. I don't know what exactly it is. I wrote about it before the season that I worried about the fact that he was sometimes going to be at the fourth option on the team. I don't think that's, that's necessarily all of it, but it could be part of it. And for him moving forward, like, he's a, he's an offensive focal point. And look, Levine scoring as many points as he did the other night and hitting the game winner was remarkable. I just think for some of the guys in this team, whether it's Laurie Markening or whether it's Wendell Carter, that it would be a bit more beneficial for them to have some type of guy playmaking as a compliment to them. Because Laurie has scoring talent. Maybe it's not as great as he's shown in the past.

Maybe this regression is real. I'd be more willing to bet that he actually does have that offensive talent. he's just stuck in a less than ideal situation for himself. And is that on Chicago? Is it on Lowry for not adapting? It's on both. But ultimately, I think this roster is flawed. And I would like to see them have a bit more of a primary option that has more

of a playmaking skill set, which Levine does not. And by the way, the guy they drafted this year, as much as Kobe White has had some impressive flashes, he also is not a natural playmaker. He is a guy who has poor shot selection that needs to get better. He is a guy that needs to evolve to become a playmaker. He is not that naturally. And so for this team, the roster is better. There's more talent overall.

It just doesn't mix and blend well together on offense. And then on defense, the system's just bad. Yeah, you know, it's interesting what you say about the pecking order of that team. You've got Levine who leads them in 17 field goal attempts per game, which is not an absurd number by any means. 43% for the field, 39% from 3, which is a great number for Levine. But the two next, the guy who takes the second most shots on the team is Kobe White, who's shooting 38% from the field.

And then the third most is Markinen, who, as we mentioned, is shooting 36% from the field. I mean, when your top three field goal attempt guys are going 43%, 38%, 36%, and your defense sucks, I guess it adds up to 6 and 12. right. I mean. They, the bulls are still ass.

Put it that way. All right. Last thing. I went to a G-League game last night. The Memphis Hustle featuring Josh Jackson, the old Phoenix,

from your old bright future sons, no less. He's there. Fourth picking the draft. Yeah, along with the cast of characters. And also they were playing against last night. The main red claws,

who are the Boston Celtics, G-League team. They're the only two undefeated teams in the G-League left. I was really wanting to see Romeo Langford. He did not play. I wanted to see Tramont Waters, but he had gotten called up to the Boston Celtics. But I did get to see Taco Fall. Taco! Oh my God. Oh, it's also Taco Tuesday. Hey, you're nice. A, 16 points, 18 rebounds, and just going and seeing him in person. And I saw him quite a bit because Memphis is in Central Florida's conference. So, I mean, I saw him, you know, his whole college career playing against Memphis.

But when he is one of those guys that when you see it in person, it is so hilarious. Kevin, he finger-rolled without jumping. he dunked without jumping at least two times last night. And he is so there is nothing funnier than a guy grabbing it off the rim and just putting it back in without jumping, just dunking it. And you have guys like jumping around them like their children. Now, Taco's team got throttled last night by the Memphis Hustle. But God bless.

I mean, I would encourage anybody if he is coming to a town near you, he is he is a sight to behold it's like it's like Bobon except it's better in the G league because he plays a bunch right he's probably just going to be a spot minute guy in the NBA like Bobon you know like a lefty reliever or something but in the G league he's like a main character right he's he's out there and playing and damn he was fun have you seen him in person taco I have not seen him play in person no oh it's the I'm curious, Chris. Is he actually, no, that's a lie.

I believe I saw him one time at Summer League this year. Yes, I did. I did see him and he's obviously a joy to watch. It was, I'm pretty sure it was his debut at Summer League that I saw him. Crowd was going crazy, chanting for him. It's quite a scene. But you mentioned he could be like a Bobon. Boban was a much better, it is a much better shooter than Taco.

Yeah. Without the shot, is Taco an NBA player? I mean, again, in that role, like come in for a couple of minutes. I don't think Taco Ball will ever average 12 minutes a game in the NBA. But could he be on our team, be on a roster, and especially, you know, go get you some, play some minutes when you're having to play against Joe L.M.B. Right? Like, I mean, throw him in there and use up his fouls and maybe block some shots. and make some plays and obviously get the crowd back into it. But, you know, look, I mean, it's just, he has to be near the basket.

If you're putting him, I mean, look, everybody's just going to pull him all the way away from the basket, trying to get him to, you know, go guard a pick and roll. And he's not, he's not mobile enough. I mean, you can drive right past him. Like you said, he's the lessee reliever reliever. And I, and I hope he's able to establish himself as that he could be the reliever in those types of matchups. He can be the human victory cigar. Yes.

Blowouts. He can be the, the player that kids love to watch, drawing more interest for that team and that player. I, and also like, he's just like a very good dude. Yes. Who's a good teammate, who works hard and has truly, I mean, improved and become a player

that actually has a shot to making it. And so I'm rooting for him. Here's what I think. I do think he could, like, I think he could, I know he could impact an NBA game, which is more than what a lot of guys that are the 15th man on rosters do anyway. You know, I would be more confident that I could put him in the game and it could theoretically have an impact than a lot of 15th guys on rosters. So that's how you get to have a career, you know? I'm going to eat tacos today in his honor.

That's what I'm going to do. In his honor. Yeah, it was a it was a sight to behold, to say the least. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Go throw on your Tom Brady jersey and go think about all the great wins that the dolphins, the bills and the, who's the other team? Dolphins, Bill, and a jet. Think about all the great wins that those teams have had over the course of the last two decades.

All their moments. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody, all our listeners of the United States. We will not have a show this Friday. Right, Chris? No show this Friday. but we'll be back next Tuesday. I'm not doing one. You could talk it to a microphone if you want.

I mean, I am staying in L.A. for it. So I'll be all alone on Friday. Oh, nothing to do. Well, you know what? Do me a fair. Just call me. We'll just talk. Ah, yeah.

I don't want to bother you, Chris. Spend a day with your family. We'll just talk. All right. Kevin, I will talk to you soon. Have a great Thanksgiving. And thank you to everybody for listening to another episode of the mismatch. Give us a rating and review on iTunes.

Five stars, five stars. It really helps. And have a great Thanksgiving, everybody. Kevin, I'll talk to you soon. See you later.