The Ringer NBA Show - The NBA’s Replay Review System Is Flawed. So Do the Rockets Have a Point? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: December 6, 2019

We discuss the James Harden dunk that wasn’t counted in the Houston Rockets’ double-overtime loss to the San Antonio Spurs (1:21). Are the Rockets right to file a complaint in the hope that it will point out a flaw in the replay review system? Plus: what Zion will look like when he returns (26:09), David Fizdale’s clock is ticking (32:11), and LaMelo Ball’s chances at going first overall in the NBA draft (38:10). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This NBA season, Mountain Dew, is all about the threes, the shot that's changing the game. We'll be talking about Devante Graham's Charlotte franchise record setting 10 threes the other night in the season he's having so far. Brought to you by Mountain Dew, the Do, the Do, The Dude. Today's episode of The Mismatch also brought to you by State Farm. Just like basketball, the game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. unexpected like James Hardin's dunk not counting the other night, and then the Rockets protesting to the NBA about the game.

Get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected. Talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon, and joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'Penionated, Kevin O'Crient, Kevin O'Cliand, a.k.a. Kevin O'Climber. Kevin.

Burnow, what's going on this Friday? Well, first, before we get into anything, I do want to thank a lot of different people that are listeners of this program that have given us shouts out over the last couple of days that was brought upon, I guess, as Spotify at the end of year, they do a wrap-up and they send to people

what they had listened at throughout the year. And whether it was Twitter or Instagram or wherever else, I know a lot of people had tagged you and I both on the Ringer MBA show being a big part of their lives for 2019. So our Cups runneth over. That was super nice to see. And thank you to all of you that have spent an inordinate amount of time listening to this show. Yeah. Seriously.

I know. Listen to our goofy voices in your ears and your commutes. It means the world, you know, to see those messages and have the relationship with you guys. So thank you. So we have had a lot of stuff happened since we last. spoke, Kevin, not the least of which, the Houston Rockets are formerly protesting that the Spurs took Lonnie Walker out of witness protection and then he buried them in the, oh, that's not what they're protesting.

They are protesting their loss where they blew almost a 20-point lead. And James Harden had two points in the fourth quarter and it went to double overtime because a basket was not counted with eight minutes left to go in a 12-point game. This is embarrassing to me. I saw you defend it on Twitter yesterday, and I was beside myself, and I said, all right, I will save this for the show. How can you possibly defend this? There's a difference between a bad call or a missed call than missing a basket that went

through the hoop. The basket went through the hoop. There's a difference here. it's not just a missed call. We saw the ball go through the hoop. The points were not counted when they should have been. There's precedent for this in the past. Two years ago, Manu Genooli accidentally threw a ball through the hoop.

It was a three-pointer. He meant to lob it. It went in. Ruffs initially didn't count it. Then play stopped. Then they talked. Then they changed it. This has happened.

And then in this case, though, it did not. The points should count. Whether it is. It's reviewed and they replay or not. I don't know. I think it's a slippery slope if you do replay the game in the future. However, this is unlike bad calls, missed calls because the ball actually went through the hoop. So they are right to protest it to at least get people talking about it, to at least get the league thinking about what you do in a scenario like this.

They are right to protest because they missed a freaking made basket. There's a difference. Okay. here's the thing. That's fine if you want to protest the call. But what do you think the solution should be? I mean, look, you find the refs. The refs screwed up.

It happens a lot. It happens a lot. I get that you say the basket went through, but on a black charge where a guy would have made a basket and they miss that call or on a goaltend where the ball would have gone in. If it worked for the goal tend, the ball would have gone.

I mean, this stuff happens. I know. Yes. But yes. It happened with eight minutes left in the games. That stuff happens. But block charges.

That's a whole different conversation. That's a 50-50 call a lot of the time. A made basket is 100%. It should be 100%. And in this case, it wasn't. No, whether a ball goes in or not. There's no way around it.

Right. But there was eight minutes left in the game. I don't care about the situation. What are you talking about? You don't care about that situation. You have to. Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, Let's, but remove that context for a minute here.

There's a difference between a block charge or a goal tend. Like there are so few things in life that are A or B. And this is one of those. Make or missed basket. And they missed it. They got it wrong. And it should be an A or B proposition. But in this case, it wasn't.

They got it wrong. Okay. Okay. The rest gets stuff wrong, Kev. But getting, but getting back to your original question, though. okay, so it was wrong. What do you do about it? Well, I'm not sure here.

All I know is that I think there needs to be an improved process in a situation like this if it were to come up again. That's what I care about most here. First of all, the referee James Capers after the game, some real BS coming from him. He said he made an offensive baskin interference call. I did not see that signal at any moment after that. And then he mentioned that Dan Tony waited 30 seconds to challenge the play. well, we didn't see, we don't have cameras on him the entire time, nor do we on Capers with the call. However, I timed from the end of the, from the whistle to the time you see Dan Tony call a time out.

He calls it at 29 seconds. It's within 30 seconds. So that's one thing. And second of all, the 30 second rule, I've talked to a handful of people in the league that are like, that doesn't exist. It's not exactly as he said. It is a reviewable matter. but you have a window of 30 seconds to challenge the play during that timeout that he had while they were protesting the call and they didn't.

Listen. James Kaye person, but I've heard it's not exactly that case that it's within 30 seconds of the call or non-call being made on the floor that it's actually after a timeout and that some coaches it's not always about twirling your finger or whatever. The fact is that there needs of being an improved process if this happens. happens again. That's what I care about most here. Whether the game gets replayed or not, I don't know. I don't care. But there needs to be a better process in a situation like this.

Well, James Capers was, as I said, he's an embarrassment after the game. That was pathetic. His whole explanation for everything was terrible. This does not happen very often. My problem is they lost the game. They didn't lose because of that. Right. That's not why they lost the game. And yet, by protesting and making this a big story, it happened with eight minutes left to go. Let's say it was the second play of the game. Then what? I mean, it's still two points that should have counted.

This is what I mean. Remove the context. You're right. That's what I mean. It's not about the eight minutes left. It's not about that they blew a lead. It's about this individual moment in the game and it doesn't matter when it happened. That's what I mean,

that you need for in this situation and improved process. That's why I'm glad they're protesting. I think we are going to, this is where we will split ways. It does matter to me when it was in the game. If that is the last play of the game and that would have decided the win or the loss, to me, yes, that is a much bigger deal and totally fair to protest. But when it happens with eight minutes left in the game and you played eight minutes and two overtimes and you had a 12 point lead, like stop already.

That's not why you lost. That's just crying. because if it happens on the last play of the game, it did decide the win or the loss. That's my problem with this. This didn't decide whether they won or lost that game. And the protest makes it seem as if, you know? And it's just like what they did when they bitched about the Warriors series.

Then they sent in all of these different analytics that said, oh, well, actually, if this would have called, we would have won. Like, shut up, man. I know. If this would have happened, we would have won. Like, no, you wouldn't. Like, if it's at the end of the game, if it's last 30 seconds and, and it's a tie game and that play happens, you're damn right. That decided the game.

But this didn't decide the game. Yep. People, people understandably aren't taking it seriously because they hate the rockets for one reason or another. Well, no, no, no. No, I'm not saying that their reasons are unfounded. And so then they see something like this. And understandably, you're like, oh, yeah, of course. Houston complaining again.

But again, it ultimately doesn't matter who it is. A missed made basket happened. And regardless of the team, I think it's important that the NBA, whether they have the game replayed or not, I'm not here to argue that. I have a lot of mixed feelings on that. What my argument is, I'm glad it was protested. So it is bringing attention to the actual issue here, which was a made basket was not counted. And in that case, I hope the NBA is reviewing, okay, how can we be better here in assuring this never happens again? Because that's an egregious mistake.

It's not a missed block call. It's not a missed offensive interpreference call. It's a missed made basket. And the results here for Houston, it's disappointing in the loaded Western Conference that one game, any two points does make a difference in where you can end up in the standings. It could drop you a seed, whatever. But regardless of the result, I hope the NBA, looking at this here and like, okay, how can we be better?

Because they need to make sure this doesn't happen ever again, Chris. Okay, they do. That's what they want. They want to make sure, but they want, they want to have the final seven minutes and 50 seconds of the game be replayed with Houston up 15 points. Of course you do. Of course you would. It's embarrassing.

But of course that's what you would want. If you're running that team, Chris. If I was a sour grapes cryer, you're right. No, I don't think so. I think if you're running the Memphis Grizzlies, I think if you're running that team and you guys are trying to make a playoff run and seeding matters and you get screwed out of two points in what was a close game, I think you would care and I think you would be fed up.

I think anybody would be in that position. And rightfully so, because like I said, missed calls happen, but not counting a made basket does not. There's a difference. There's a very big difference between. the two. And this so often

it's talked about, and I've made this mistake a couple times the past week. It gets talked about as a missed call. It's not a miss call. It's not a call at all. It's a made bathroom. So what do you just wipe out what happened afterwards. So look, they just want to destroy any evidence of Lonnie

Walker urinating on them the entire quarter. That's what they want. They want that to be stricken from the record books. They want it taken away. They want all the tapes destroyed. Like when, uh, what was the kid's name, the Crawford kid at the Nike camp, dunked on LeBron, and there was the secret tape of it, right? They want the tape, they want the tape burned and act like that. Never happened.

They want to take away Lonnie Walker's majestic fourth quarter and then the double overtimes. They probably want to take away Demard de Rosen drawing the charge on James Hardin and everything that took place. To me, look, it again, if it's at the very end of the game and it decided the winner of the loss, but during the course of games, all manner of screw jobs happen to teams. Every night something happens in a game where you could say that was messed up. A guy, you know, what are we going to do if, let's say you gave somebody their sixth foul and they say, well, we want to play the, and that wasn't a foul.

We want to play the rest of the game with our player because that wasn't a foul. Do you think that's fair? Like that could absolutely decide a game. But you say, oh, well, he didn't get to play. So now we want to play the last eight minutes with our. best player who you filed out with eight minutes left to go on a bad call. Like it's crazy. It's crazy.

Like I said, I have mixed feelings on if they were to replay the game. My feelings are not mixed. This is goofy. Goofy. And I think you are defending the Houston Rockets just to be a Kevin O' contrarian. No, I'm not. I mean when I tweeted yesterday. I totally mean that.

And I said that not knowing how you felt about it. I didn't know how you felt. You had to know. No. I mean, you know me well enough. You know me well enough. I had a feeling, but I mean this sincerely.

It doesn't matter. Like, it's not going to impact the way I feel about it. And I think the team is right to protest. Whether it gets upheld, whether Adam Silver's like, you know what, we're going to have these two teams replay this.

I don't know. But I'm glad that they're protesting. I signed up for violin lessons so that I could honor the Houston Rockets with the violin that I need to play for them. Lonnie Walker, as I mentioned, did go off in that fourth quarter. And the reason it was so funny is because there were so many people saying, who is Lonnie Walker the fourth, right? He's just been off the radar.

And it's the craziest thing, Kevin. I've seen him two summer leagues in a row. And he has come up where you and I have talked about it during the course of shows that we have done out in Vegas or like even when he played in the Utah Summer League last year. and you watch him, and he's so clearly better than everybody, you know, in many of the games that he's playing out there. And then it gets to the season, and, you know, he had the injuries last year, but he didn't get a ton of clock. And this year, he has just been buried on their bench completely. And it's been kind of surprising because he's one of the rare guys that I've seen in the summer and really have thought, oh, wow, big things might be ahead.

And it just hasn't taken. And so you do wonder, is that? at a breakout and now we're going to start seeing Lonnie Walker possibly in a rotation, or was that just a gigantic flash in the pan? Because he has just not played. And I thought he was pretty damn good every time I've seen him. I hope we're going to start seeing more of him. Popovich criticized him early last month in November, was not happy with his play.

And Lonnie Walker, as you just said, did not play. And what Popovich said was he was non-competitive. After his 19-point game against Houston this week, Popovich said he's starting to do the things that he needs to do in order to get minutes. And I don't know if that's effort, but he sure as hell could score for damn sure. And I think for San Antonio, I hope at some point this season, they're able to give him more regular minutes on the court because this kid has so much offensive talent.

And we often talk a lot about how Dejante Murray and Derek White and Bryn Forbes are impressive young garas, but long term, there's a chance Lonnie Walker ends up the best out of any of them. He's a super talented young player who can score, can create off the dribble, can play make a little bit as well. And with

the defense, hopefully over time that improves for him, he has the athleticism for sure. But with Walker, he is definitely an X factor for San Antonio moving forward. It's just there's a lot of young talent ahead of him. And then, of course, you have Demar de Rosen and Patty Mills, the veterans who are earning minutes

as well. But I hope Lonnie's able to get more playing time moving forward. A lot ahead of him, but I think we both agree on this. None of them are the kind of guys that could go do what he did with that just insane scoring barrage in the fourth quarter. Like he has that capability. He has more scoring ability than any of the any of those guys that are playing ahead of him. Well, yeah, of the young guys. Of the young guys. I'm not the veteran guys. But I'm saying, not your, not your number one player Demar de Rosen. No, because they got a bunch of they got a bunch of scoring guard. I mean, they've got

or I mean, they got a bunch of combo guards, right? They do. Well, this is, this is, this is part of my frustration with DeMar. It's like, Damar, you understand why you have him. He's a solid player, but he's blocking the development of some of these younger guys in the team.

I'm getting consistent minutes together. Popovich is blocking that development, I think. Not necessarily Demar de Rosen. It's his choice. Who to play. DeMarchman play big minutes this year, right? Like, he plays these guys more minutes than in the past. Like, there were some of those years where guys were getting 25, 26 minutes a game for San Antonio.

He plays these guys bigger minutes than he has in the past. And obviously, he does not trust some of the younger players all that much, and they don't have all that long of a rope. I do want to ask you about another second year player. and this is the opportunity to give a kid that's playing at a small market some shine. Since we last spoke, Devante Graham set the Charlotte franchise record

with 10-3s the other night, and this season he is having, Kevin. I mean, he's a second round pick out of Kansas, veteran player there, and I didn't know this. I was reading an article. Steve Ashburner at NBA.com wrote a really good article about this

and what's happened with him and kind of his plight. I didn't realize he was how about this? He was high school teammates with Donovan Mitchell. How about that team? Good grief. That must have been fun. Yeah, he has improved his scoring

13 points per game at time of that publishing. Second year in the league, he's up to 18 points per game. He's banging threes. He's, clearly will be in the mix for six men of the year, especially if Charlotte has a better season than

people think if anybody could knock Lou Williams out of that spot. But last year, you know, only played 46 games, kind of bounced back and forth from their G League team in Greensboro throughout the year. But what do we make of this? Because that was a hell of a draft last year with, we know, I mean, so many guys that appear to be big-time megastars going forward, certainly at the top of that draft. But here's this guy that got drafted in the second round of that draft and just a monster

breakout season for him and certainly will be in the most improved, you know, category or, you know, he certainly would have that award right now probably through, what, 20 games of the season? What do we make of Devante Graham? Graham's for real, man. I think this is a, simply a continuation of what his development was in college. At Kansas, he really started out just as like a bench score as a spark plug. And then he improved his, is a playmaker in his junior and senior, especially a senior season. And in the draft, though,

it's like, I looked at Graham and I thought, okay, here's a smaller guy who is a spark plug score. Maybe his playmaking's for real, but he's small and he's a senior and I'm looking at all these things that don't matter in the evaluation

and factoring that in when really, I don't think I personally looked enough and as didn't teams and thought, Okay, yeah, this guy is just going to be an energy guy for you, Lou Will-esque, as you just said, Chris. But now in the NBA, I don't think his handle was what it needed to be from a skill standpoint last year. And that's one of the reasons for his struggles,

never mind that he's playing behind Kemba. But that seems like it's improved to me. I think his handle looks tighter going to his right. And that was an area at Kansas that he didn't really have. He was left a lot. And he seems to have more of a balanced, unpredictable game. That's opened up the whole floor for him, which has activated his playmaking skill, which is real, which is activating his ability to get to the basket, which has never been

a problem for him at college. And now he's doing an NBA. I think it's just a continuation of the progression we saw over four years at Kansas. So it's nice to see. You know what's kind of crazy. And Steve did a very good job in this article, you know, kind of highlighting some different facts that I was unaware of. I mean, this kid has had some very big games so far, a 35 point game against Indiana. He was 9 of 16, 3-point shooting versus the Knicks. He had a 16.15 assist game against Detroit. But how about this?

You know, it's kind of all clicked for Andrew Wiggins this year, more so than it ever has before. He's averaging 25 points a game, five rebounds, three and a half assists, you know, and it's kind of, it's clicked more than it has before for Wiggins. right. How about this one? Devante Graham was born February 22nd, 1995, Andrew Wiggins, February 23rd, 1995. Wow. And their journeys hardly could be more different. But the reason he brings those two up is because they were both of Kansas together, right? And look at the different ways they went. They are a day apart in age. And here they are both at this same time in their life.

becoming different players than they have ever been before. And part of, you know this, part of the Graham thing, is for sure, we always get agest when it comes to the draft. It is held against you. It is like a scarlet letter when you are the age that Devante Graham was. I mean, I just told you, he's the same age as Andrew Wiggins, for God's sakes. We've been talking about Andrew Wiggins for six years. Andrew Wiggins on his second contract. You know, this guy's in his second year in the NBA.

And you're right. You're right. It's people look at age, especially players coming out of the draft and use it against him. And I look back at my evaluation of Graham, the scutter report, like the pluses and minuses, I, I nail those. But it's like, why did I have it ranked like 50? Oh, you had 50? Oh, no. And it's because the age. It's because the age and not to mention, like I said, the handle going to his right was not great.

And his defense being a smaller point guard. He was more just a gritty defender. But I missed on Van Vleet, as did every team with him going undrafted as well. I thought smaller point guard. What's his limit defensively? Well, Van Vleet, he has become an elite positional defender who puts in elite effort, who is somebody that just constantly is trying and grinding and getting underneath opposing guards being a real pest in their ear.

And Devante Graham was that in college. it's just he's smaller and I use that against him in addition to his age but I don't I think with for me the lesson moving forward is with point guards like this scoring and playmaking perimeter shooting that's all you need sometimes to be a success as long as you're trying and grinding on the defensive end of the floor so Graham has that for him to keep him on the floor to get competitive minutes but what makes him good is the scoring scoring ability from the perimeter perimeter because this guy is a legit knockdown shooter. He shot over 40% in his four years at Kansas, shooting over 40% now from three, both off to dribble and off the catch. Guys get a good shot. And with that, that and gritty defense gives you a foundation for success at the point card position.

So I think sometimes age, a lot of the time age gets overvalued when it comes to ranking players when so often we see these guys fall on the draft like Graham did and then end up being, or like Van Vleet did too, and then end up becoming successful NBA players. Oh, there's so many of them too, right? It's endless, really. Yeah, I mean, because you brought up, you brought up Van Vleet. I mean, the greatest example is probably Malcolm Brogden, who was fantastic at Virginia and has now really been great for Indiana this year.

And he was, I mean, he had a 50, 40, 90 season last year for the Bucks. Another one's Jalen Brunson in Dallas, right? Same deal. Same deal. Jaylen Brunson went in the second round. He's struggled a little bit this year, but hopefully able to get back on track like he was last year. Because he was,

he was really good as a rookie. Brunson was. Yes. And we know he's a solid NBA player. Like he's going to have a career, like a real career, which is more than you can say for a lot of guys that were drafted ahead of him.

Let's get to a couple other stories that have come out since we last spoke. One of which is the story about Zion Williamson and that it was going to take a little bit longer than we thought originally, the six-day-week prognosis. And now the story is followed up with him not going to be playing back-to-backs upon his return. Whenever he does finally come back, David Griffin, the VP of Basketball Ops for the Pelican, said that Williamson's return to the floor will be heavily monitored. He very likely will not be asked to take the pounding of back-to-backs initially.

there will be sort of a ramp up for him getting back to where you could call him full strength, but he's certainly going to be playing and we're trying to win basketball games, and quite frankly, we've done a horrible job of that. He did have meniscus surgery right during the preseason. That's where, and last Monday marked the six-week mark, and they had initially put a timetable of six to eight weeks on his possible return. So it looks like it's going to be a little. a little bit longer than that.

And Kevin, what, I mean, I don't know. Like, what, what can Zion's rookie season be? I hope they do take it slow, Chris. They should. Zion is a guy that they want to invest in for the next 10 plus years you hope for your franchise. It's not just about this season. New Orleans, look, Zion is going to be awesome to watch.

And I'm so stoked to see the creative actions we're going to see from Alvin Gentry with Zion on offense. but he doesn't solve their problems on defense. They rank 28th in defensive rating this year. They're not a playoff team. Four and a half games back right now of the eight seed with five teams. They would have to leap Portland, Oklahoma City, Sacramento, San Antonio, Memphis in order to get there.

There's no reason to rush Zion and push for the postseason this year, just for an eventual spanking in the first round, probably at the hands of the Lakers or Clippers. It's about making sure he's healthy moving forward. and hopefully seeing that defense get better and more connected over the course of the year. That's what you want to see. But the priority should be being cautious with him. He's the guy you're invested in with the number one pick.

Should they be better even without Zion? I was high on them. I thought they absolutely would be competing for the playoffs with what they did in the offseason, with kind of what they added. I mean, you're talking, I know they've had some guys missed some time. This Jackson Hayes has gotten to play a little more recently and has given them some pretty good scoring, rebounding, block shots off the bench and energy. But even without Zion, I mean, is he the difference or were we just too high on the Pelicans?

I mean, Zion's not going to solve their defensive problems yet. You hope someday he can be that guy, but right now he's not. I thought this team would be a bit better defensively, too, with Holiday and Lonzo and Zion's versatility. And what Ingram did the last two years with the Lakers on defense, but without him there, it seems like there's been a bit of a domino effect in terms of the maybe the connectedness and the effort on the defensive end of the floor that's hurt the team a lot.

But maybe Zion helps on that in that department. Maybe being having him on the court does make them better, but I'm sure they wouldn't be any better than average on defense yet. It's hard to be good on defense when you're so young. It's also hard for one guy to make

a dramatic difference. But in fairness, that one guy I watched him jump from damn lane and block a three-pointer last year. I mean, he had some of the craziest blocks I ever saw from a college kid. He is a special, special talent. Now, here's the other thing. They take it very slow with them.

He doesn't play back-to-backs, whatever it is. There's also a, you know, you talk to any NBA players that have had this done, the meniscus. It takes them a while to become themselves again and fully trust it. and he is such an explosive athlete, right? So he, I certainly wouldn't expect him to be himself there even for another, you know, six to eight weeks from when he comes back because it's just very hard. You know, it's the first time that, you know, if you get cut on, you know, right before a season, yes, you do all the rehab and you do all of that stuff, but then you've got to get back into

NBA shape where you're sprinting 94 feet. And then beyond that, just trusting that. knee and getting that completely out of your head and playing like you always have before. So we might not even see what I'm saying. We might not get the full Zion experience, even if they take it slow till we get to, you know, maybe the all star,

after the all star break. But here's hoping we get to see it because God, I was so excited to see him. And hell, they put him on national TV 40 frigging times. Boy, do I hope so. I mean,

you know what I mean, or else are going to have to start switching out a lot of games that he was, because there are. already having to do it with the Warriors. Have you seen that? Yeah. You know, they've put the Warriors on national TV so much. They're already having to change that out. They're having to do it, you know, they're going to have to start doing it with the Pelicans too. All right, Kevin, we'll go right back to it. I want to remind everybody, today's episode is brought to you by Luminary, a podcast subscription service with some of the best content around.

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Dotlink slash RingerNBA. After that, it's only $7.99 a month. That's Luminary.org slash ringer NBA for two months of free access. Luminary.com slash ringer NBA. Cancel any time, terms apply. A couple other things. How is David Fisdale hanging on?

I mean, look, we're recording this on Friday morning, so it's totally possible by the time people listen to this. He's not hanging on. He called their latest effort sickening. I mean, they got blasted last night in Denver. Just embarrassing. 37 point loss last night to the Denver Nuggets. And that's eight straight. And they're four and 18 overall.

I think the surprising thing is Fizz is hanging on. It's a shocker to you and I, Chris. It's a shocker to NICS fans. It's a shocker to NBA fans. It's a shocker to every single front office executive that I've chatted with about this. I've heard from a couple sources yesterday that don't believe Fisdale will make it to the Knicks road trip next week. The Knicks go on a four-game road trip starting Tuesday against Portland. before then they face Indiana

tomorrow Saturday at home. I've heard that Fizzdale won't make it to them then, but then again, people didn't think he'd still be here now, so who really knows? Yeah, it's just strange, right? Because that last month, Adrian Ward Janowski and Malika Andrews put out

that thing that league sources were telling them Steve Mills had already started laying the internal groundwork for Fizz's eventual firing, right? That was last month. And then they had that goofy press conference after a game, you know, to make sure everybody knew they weren't happy about where they were and that they still believe in their offseason. Like, things have gotten way worse since then. I just told you, I mean, they lost eight in a row.

They've got frigging four wins. They're four in 18, for God's sakes. And that was last month. So that's what's so strange about this. He was laying the groundwork to put the blame on him. you know, let him fall on the sword a month ago. And hell, they hadn't won nothing since. And I don't understand.

I don't really, I don't know what's going on here. I mean, it's, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens here. I think Fisdale's probably going to be the scapegoat during the season. But the more interesting scenario moving forward is, is what does James Dolan do with the front office, with Perry and Mills? I know there's been rumblings for years now. Dolan pursued Masai Ujiri in 2017. Those rumblings haven't gone away that Dolan is just going to throw a bunch of cash at Ujiri next summer. And there's some people in the league who think Ujiri could end up taking it, going to take the next job.

I don't know if I believe it. I think Maasai has an unbelievable situation in Toronto that he set himself up with with a supportive ownership, with a good team that is young and that has flexibility moving forward, I have a hard time believing that he would leave that situation for New York. However, there are enough people that I've chad with who I trust in the league that have said that Dolan is not going to stop going after him and that there is belief that he wouldn't end up going.

I just don't see it happening, but there's no doubt that Dolan loves Masayu Jiri, so why wouldn't he continue going for him? And for New York, you and I talked about this during the summer, Chris. I said this year and next year is about changing your image. There would be no greater way to change your image for Dolan than to say, I'm stepping back here. We gave $13 million to the best GM in basketball, the best decision maker, the best talent evaluator.

Things are going to be different here moving forward. If you're Dolan, that's what you should be trying to do. So it makes sense to try to do that. whether he does it or not, who knows, but that's something just keep in mind as this next season develops and those rumors, at least out of the New York media, aren't going away, but it's also a conversation that people aren't going to stop talking about

within the league either. Do you think that, so if they're 4 and 18, do you think that the Knicks could have a significantly better record with a different coach? No. I mean, it's the team that was put together on the,

on the court. I think this next team, I thought they would be more competitive, but they have, it's just a bad mix in terms of, they don't have enough spacing. They're one of the only teams, if not the only team in the league that is regularly playing two bigs

that can't shoot on the court. I mean, this is the type of team that you would build if you want a tank. If you want to organically tank, this is what you would do. And they were trying to sell everybody that they were just going to be competitive, right? Right? They were going to. Sure. And I thought, I personally thought they would have some more fight in them. I personally thought they would. I thought they would suck and they do suck. But I thought they would suck and be a bit more competitive than they actually are. It just, it just wears you down so much. The excessive losing, even the, even the guys that are the, the bulldogs, they get worn down by it. When you just lose every night. It's hard to keep that, you know,

Intensity and they did. They got a bunch of Bulldogs. They got the Bobby Portis and the Randals and these kind of guys. Marcus Morris. Yeah, just like a bunch of a bunch of dogs on that team that. Frank Milikina. Oh, my God. It's true.

Big performance. I can't believe, especially with getting him back in the lineup, I can't believe they lost by a thousand last night. That was crazy. Last thing before we get out of here for the weekend. So on Tuesday, I asked you, quickly about the draft and you said you had paid attention to some of these overseas guys a little more recently. I did not ask you what I wanted to, which is there is this sentiment,

you know, whether it's Anthony Edwards from Georgia, and we talked about how there's a lot of guard heavy in this upcoming lottery. If you, and I know you don't do it this early, but if you put together a list right now, do you think that Lamello is the number one picking the draft. I had Anthony Edwards rank number one heading into the season. I wouldn't necessarily waver off that. I'm not married to that take. I am not even dating that take. We are not exclusive. It's an open relationship. It's a very open relationship. As for as for lamello ball, though, I mean, there's no doubt at 18 years old, this dude is just an unbelievable playmaker with his size,

six, seven, just the instincts he has to make reads that other players can't. It's remarkable. But the defense needs to improve. The shooting needs to improve. The at-room finishing needs to improve. There's a lot of question marks with his game. But if you're drafting a guy off one elite skill,

and that's the skill he's going to lean on, well, he has that. My fear with lamello ball is he just a slightly bigger version of his brother, which is a good player, but is he the guy that you want to take number one over some of the other options in this draft? Does R.J. Hampton even belong in that discussion a bit more as a superior perimeter shooter? It's going to be a fascinating debate moving forward because this draft in that regard reminds me of 2013 in the sense that there was no clear number one. There was so much disagreement within the league and within fans and

everybody you talked to about who the best prospect was this year, I would expect to have a similar debate just with some better options, I hope, over the course of the season developed. Who was 13? I can't remember. Anthony Bennett went number one. Oh, God. Yeah, I know. Anthony Bennett.

You know, I saw him in person last year in the G League. I mean, he was an absolute house. I mean, huge. and he was shooting three, like all he did was shoot threes. Oh, I know, he can stroke it. It was the craziest thing. He really could shoot him. But, I mean, he looked like escalade from those old, you know,

uh, and one mixtapes. He's a, golly. That, even, you know what? Even the day of that draft, like, it wasn't until late that I remember, like, that came about. Anthony Bennett was going. I, even like that morning, a lot of the mocks had who, what, Ben, A lot of people had Ben McLemore going number one.

I remember LeBron was a huge Ben Mclemore guy, but a lot of people had Mclemore going at the top of that draft. And some had Nerlens, but then he had to add the injury. And he dropped a little. That was a weird draft night to say the least. It was incredibly weird. That was my first drafts covering as a writer. I look back at my top 10 rankings, my top 10 that year,

Ola Depot, Noel, MacLamore, Bennett, Len, Porter, Burke, McCollum, Antidacompo, Muhammad. I'm happy I had Janice. Look at you. I'm happy I had Yonis 9th, but I also had him behind Trey Burke, Otto, on a border, Alex Len, Anthony Bennett, Maclmore, and Noel. I'm happy about that. And I'm happy I had Olat Depot number one, but it's really fascinating some of the other names in that draft. like Shabazz Muhammad.

When's the last time you've heard that name? Oh, my God. He hasn't even had an NBA career. I know. I know. That was the weirdest thing, too. You remember that whole thing about his age? And he had like, he knew how old he was, but he had lied about his age.

Everything about that draft was strange. Everything. I still don't get Olatipo not going number one. I thought he was the clear guy. Oh, I love. I love Doledipo at Indiana. God, I loved him. Yeah, he was so fun to watch.

I can't wait until he's back. They broke my heart. That team had him and Zeller. They broke my heart. They got a, they got zoned up by Syracuse. And I swear to God, Tom Crean had never even thought to prepare them

for how to attack a two, three zone. It was embarrassing. I mean, they got, they got knocked out by the team. I had them going to the national title game that year. I still remember. Because, I mean, they had, well, what? Zeller went in the top five, didn't he?

He go four? He certainly went to the top ten. He went fourth, if I remember correctly. Yeah, so, I mean, they had two top five picks on that team and got ousted in the NCAA tournament. Yeah, that was, that was wild. Anyway, Kevin, have an unbelievable weekend, and I will talk to you on Tuesday. You as well, Chris, and thanks everybody for listening. Have a good weekend.

Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. We will talk to you on Tuesday.