The Ringer NBA Show - The Nets Impress in James Harden's Debut. Plus: What Really Happens to a Player Who Gets Traded? | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

Logan and Raja dive into James Harden’s fit on the Nets and how their Big Three will work together (1:30). Then they get into the recent beef between Harden and Shaq over whether former Black players have a responsibility to back up current Black players in the league (26:30), and Raja pulls back the curtain on what actually happens to a player when they get traded (46:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How you doing, Roger Bell? Yeah, I've been better, bro. I've been better. Yeah, I missed the call time tonight. 20 minutes late. Phone died. I don't know. Jeez, man.

What were you doing for 20 minutes, Doc? I was watching Drew Breeze's farewell tour, damn it. Like, he would look like he was going to cry. He was going off the field. You had me and Sasha over here about to cry. We were literally about to cry right here, man. We're hitting you over there. But anyway, we finally got Raja on the pod, and it was great.

Okay. We talked about James Hardin. We talked about getting traded. We talked about the media. We talked about him getting traded. We just talked about a lot of things. How Brooklyn's going to do with James Harden, Kyrie Irvin, Kevin Durant?

Wow. Seems like a great show. Let's get to it. Real ones. It's popping. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell, Real ones. Roger, you all right, man.

I've seen your Florida pot in the Brower County legend. Lamar Jackson is out of the playoffs. Are you okay, man? Chill, dog. Listen, what am I? First of all, the fact that you're in the playoffs is an honor in and of itself. Secondly, we overcame like the monkey is off our back, the hour. You like that, right?

Like, this is a, this is a, this is our backs that the monkey is off of now because we got the first win. So it's baby steps, dolly. As it relates to NBA, like, cats don't just come out and win championships in their first run around the block. Second, first playoff appearance. That you baby step into that. MJ, you know, didn't make the playoffs. his first couple years. Then he made him,

kept running into the Celtics, ran into the pistons. It took him a minute, dog. Like, we were, yeah, don't trip. We're straight. All right, all right. I'm just saying, I'm a Raider fan. I don't, like, or, you know, like a reformed Raider fan. I don't know nothing about no playoffs, bro. I don't know what that's like. I don't know how to develop a quarterback

second year. He's going to, you know what I mean? I don't know what it's like for expectations, man. I've never rooted for a good rookie quarterback or a young quarterback ever in my life. Man, the last time that the Raiders had a good quarterback. Well, Derek Carr, but the last time the Raiders had a real bona fide MVP quarterback was Rich Dan, and he was on the back end of his career.

So, like, I don't know what it's like to root for somebody that has, you know, I don't know. So I'm just, you know. That's tough. Also, so you weren't, okay, so I thought that was like kind of like a tongue and cheek type of thing. You were really concerned. You really wanted to know how I was doing with Lamar going down and not getting a dub.

I'm okay. I don't know if you realize this. I don't know if you realize this, but I was rooting for the Ravens too. Oh. Remember Marcus Peters? We had the whole thing last week about how Marcus Peters is, we were on the same team.

I wanted the Ravens to win this game. Like I wanted the Ravens to go to the bowl. They got to- I was trying to see Pat, I was trying to see Pat Mahomes. You know what I mean? And Lamar played for the conference championship. That would have been dope.

But I do think the bills, though, like I do think the bills and the young fella, Josh Allen, have way more of a chance upset in Kansas City than Lamar and them did. He needs, you want Lamar to take the next step, I'm with it. Get that boy some weapons, though. Like Hollywood Brown is dope, and Mark Andrews is tough, but get him some weapons, though.

Hey, Josh, Josh Allen got a rocket, bro. What? Boy, got a rocket. But he doesn't know how to use it that much sometimes, so he'll just like overthrow the shit. But he got a, bro, got a rocket, man. Yeah, straight cannon. I'm with you. So are you, are you, who's your Super Bowl pick before we get in the hoop talk, before we get to the shits?

Oh, that's a tough one. because I got, I mean, the young and Patrick Mahomes went out too. I actually, I like... Wait, no. Oh, no. No. No. Pat Mahomes, but Pat Mahomes playing next week.

Is he? Is he? Is that been confirmed? Because he was concussed. I mean, all right, look. I mean, I mean, okay, we're talking about the NFL, bro. Like, who's your pick? This is a tough one, man, but I'm going to go with Aaron Rogers and him because he's at the crib,

and it's going to be hella cold. And then that's my Bay Area word. You like that? Hella. So, hella cold. You spent two weeks out here. Thank you. My Piedmont slang.

Hellic. Alla cold and then I'm going to go with Pat Mahomes and the boys, but I got Pat Mahomes and Casey doubling down. Oh, okay. So that's your pick. Okay, cool. Push it. Pat Mahones is scary and I don't really want to pick against Pat Mahomes.

For the sake of picking against Rajabelle, I'll go against Aaron Rogers. Okay. I'll go with Aaron Rogers and winning the whole thing. That's a bet. All right, man. So let's get to the shits. So the biggest thing in the NBA right now, James Hardin, went to the Nets.

I thought he was always... What? He went to the Nets. He went to the Nets. No, he went to the Nets, right? I thought he was going to go to Philly this whole time, but I am on record saying that I hope he goes to Brooklyn. I just wanted to see it.

I just wanted to see the spectacle. I wanted to see all the stuff that was going on, right? And I tapped into the first game. He has a triple double. KD drops 40. it looks like it looks like a fun team it looks like a fun team i can't even lie it does what do you think about the trade so far are you are you is it super team do we are the nets going straight to the finals or is you know is are they going to reverse gentrification like

is it going to are they going to be that dope a lot to unpack here man because no really a lot to unpack because my initial thought when the trade went down i i was against the trade um And you are on record saying you wanted to see that. You thought it'd be great. And I was like, look, man, I don't know that you want to put Kyrie, Kevin Durant, and James Hardin on the same court together. And then since I made that statement, Kyrie's just gone and been AWOL and doing his thing. James Hardin just made a mess in Houston. And so, you know, for my buddy Steve Nash, I'm like, damn, dog.

Like, that's a lot of shit that you're going to have to deal with from a coaching perspective. not to mention figuring out how all of those pieces are going to work together on the court. Having said that, and on the flip side of that, you probably have like, I mean, three of the top, what, 15 to 17 players in the NBA? 10? You put Kyrene the top 10? Okay, that's fine. We can debate that. No, I got no beef with that. But let's say 12 to 15 players in the league. That's not a bad problem to have. But I too tapped into the game the other night, Logan. I too tapped into the game the other night and that shit looked crazy. Dog, like him and

like Kevin Durant and James Hardin, just go ahead and trade Kyrie now. Do move him. Get rid of him. Oh. Get off of him. Get what you. Listen, if you can find something real complimentary

to James Hardin and Kevin Durant, flip Kyrie right now. Flip Kyrie right now? Right now. I don't see. I don't know about all that, man. I think if you put three talented dudes together, it's going to, it'll work.

I know, it looked like, you know what it looked like, it looked like an all-star game. It just looked like they were just, oh, Kevin, oh, get a bucket. Ah, James, just ISO, ah, ah, ah, ah. You know, turn Kevin and the Dion Waiters. Ah, and then. I agree with you wholeheartedly and 100%

in that it looked like an all-star game. You know what throws that joy and that rhythm that you just articulated off? You know what throws that off? What is that? Another mouth defeat. another person in the mix that's going to stop the ball and be dancing on the ball

and having two other players standing there watching. Okay, so, all right, have you, let me go through the Roger Bell career. Have you played with that many ball-dominant players before? No. No. No. The closest I could come was like the Mavericks team I was on in 03.

When you had Nash, you had Michael Finley, who was a perennial all-star at the time. You had Dirk Nowitzky. You know, these are all guys that they weren't as ball-dominant, though. But then off the bench, we came with Nick Van Exel. You had Walt Williams, all guys that had the ball in their hands. But not to that level, though. Like these, you're talking about three all-time usage rate guys.

All of them are probably in the top, you know, 10. I think I read a stat where at least James Hardin and Kevin Durant are in the top, maybe 10 all-time. Kyrie is kind of not in the top 10 because he played with LeBron, but over the last four years, his usage rate has certainly been top 10 in the league. That's fair. But if you have three great players, right, you have to give it a chance before you trade them, bro.

And you know that. No, I'm okay with that. Like, yes, I do know that. I'm just, give them some grace to be like, okay, so boom, this is what I'm saying. Give them, I feel like give James some grace. He did all this shit to get to Brooklyn.

The least he could do a sacrifice. or somebody, I feel like they can sacrifice their games to figure this out, okay? This has happened before. Kevin has done this before in Golden State. No, no, no. That's, that's no. No, that's erroneous. He did not, he did, no, he definitely did not do this.

He didn't, he definitely not do this. What? He didn't do this. He did something. He sacrificed his game. He did something like this, but he didn't do this. You're dealing with Clay Thompson does not need the ball. Dremont Green, dirty,

tie everything together. Steph Curry, a ball-dominant guy but can play off the ball. You're now dealing with two dudes that are ball-dominated. And even if they can both play off the ball, you are only dealing with one ball-dominant guy in Golden State. So it is different. Same, same, same, but different.

I think that they can figure it out. The reason why, you put the ball in Kyrie's hands, and the compromise will happen. If you put the ball in Kyrie's hands, the other dudes can just come off screen. They can figure it out. They can stagger minutes. This can work.

My biggest issue, hold on one second. My biggest issue with this, it's not the big three, Roger. It's the front court. I don't know. The front court is what I'm scared of. I don't think that they got rid of Jared Allen. And all they have is what? DeAndre Jordan, who they have not played in crunch time minutes.

They got the big deal because, you know, let's be frank. He got the big deal because it's the homies with Kevin and Kyrie. Right? He got the homie deal. Well, you're moving off of topic. I'm with you that DeAndre Jordan. But all I'm saying is the front court. Yeah, the front court's an issue.

I don't have an issue with the, I don't have an issue with the big three is what I'm saying. I have more of an issue of like, how are they going to be, do they make a deal to get in the front court, to get front court help as always. That ties into what I was saying early. And yeah, I mean, you're going to let them play together.

You're going to see what that looks like. But don't be naive to think that, like, or to not think that them picking up James Harden was a play to get better as a team, but also to flip the leverage situation with Kyrie. Like, look, dog, this thing is moving with you or without you. So you bring your ass back, or you could keep acting the way you're acting.

But we're going to keep it moving. We have a plan B, and that is James Hardin. So, yeah, let them play together. I was just super excited because it looks so good the first time, you know, I saw it. Some judges is icy, too. Them jerse is so icy. They were nice, but you know, was even icier than that, what Steve Nash did with his offense.

Like, the pace that they were playing at was one that allows, like, and if they can continue to play a breakneck pace, everyone can get a little, it's going to make it easier for each one of those guys to be able to eat. Organically, they're more possessions. They're going to be more shots for each one of them. But I also like the fact that they were really getting them off the ball quickly, you know, kind of cutting one of them through, reversing the ball.

then getting into a quick DHO on the other side of the court. And so it wasn't stagnant. Like even James Hardin, who can get stagnant, and he had his ISOs in the game, a lot of it wasn't just coming down and going ISO. It was some quick movement, some quick ball movement, player movement, and then you were into your attack.

And I just thought it looked really good. So I was curious. That was another thing I was curious about with his big three, because when you look, Kevin, if you want to play fast, Kevin's coming off Achilles. I mean, he's playing like an MVP, but he's coming off an Achilles, right?

which makes you probably want to play slower, right? And then you have Kyrie and James Harden, who aren't necessarily running gun guys. They slow down the offense. I was pleasantly surprised to see that. One question you kind of answered, but I want to get more of your perspective on it is, does this move put more pressure on Kyrie to getting you in your eyes?

100%. Well, I mean, 100%. And again, I mean, I don't even know because I want to, I want to, before I do ask that question, getting gear might have been a little. Because we still don't know everything that's going on. So like if I don't want to just, if something comes out about Kyrie, maybe it was some family stuff or something that comes out. I don't want to, I do want to be fair to him. But does it put more pressure on Kyrie in general? Well, yeah, I'm not, I'm not passing judgment on what Kyrie is doing right now. Like so like, let's be clear about that. But, but. Yeah. In either case, yeah, it does put a little. little bit more pressure on Kyrie. And you're making a move if you're Sean Marks and them.

And I told you from having spoken to Steve early in the process, he wanted as many shot creators and playmakers as he could get. That's the style that he wants to play. So James Hardin fits the bill, right? But in the process of getting better, if you can get exponentially better to the point where Kyrie now becomes number three in the equation by most accounts, like yeah, that puts a lot of pressure on Kyrie. And again, you've kind of taken, not that he had any leverage, but now you have leverage as the Brooklyn Nets to say, hey, look, man, I mean, there's only so much we're going to take. And I imagine, and I talked about this like before, Kevin Durant, how much patience did he have with Kyrie? Without having James Hardin there, maybe a lot more. With James Hardin in the

picture, I would imagine, you know, Kevin Durant doesn't have as long of a leash as as he does right now with Kyrie kind of being AWOL with no real good explanation if there isn't a good explanation for it. Yeah, I think that I know the biggest thing with Kevin and Kyrie. Kevin has used this season as his mission to put an arm around Kyrie. It kind of shield that stuff from him. I mean, you can see that on every bit of any interview done with him. You see that with Instagram Live. He's trying to shape something around Kyrie that maybe to push back on the narrative that Kyrie's had throughout the years. He's just trying to put his arms around him and be like,

nah, this is not how it is. Y'all don't really know him like I know him and I got him. Where does this put the Nets within the Eastern Conference? Favorites. You put him as favorites? Favorites right now for me, man. Like, I just, you know, I said it last year when you had all of those teams going into the Western Conference and then you had, you know,

the Lakers figuring it out and the heat sneaking out and people were asking me about, like, you give me the two best players on a team, I'm taking them. So now you're telling me I got James Hardin, I've got Kevin Durant, and let's say I have Kyrie and to your point, three great players figure it out. I'm taking the Nets, doll, you just going to have to beat them. Someone's going to have to prove me wrong. You know what I mean?

Like, they look good. Now, I do agree, DeAndre Jordan, and he hasn't been super trustworthy, like, in those moments in the past, and he's a little longer in the tooth. So he's either got to really get it together or they're going to have to figure, you know, Sean Marks is going to have to continue doing a great job there and finding a piece that can really help them.

But Joe Harris is playing great. Like we kind of clown the bag and everything. He's perfect for what they've done now. I mean, the bag is the bag, man. He's playing well. No, he's playing fantastic. You know, they are going to be really tough. Now, do they beat the Lakers stuff?

Hmm. Hmm. That's tough. I still don't have an answer for Anthony Davis. Like that's their biggest, that's what I'm saying. That's their biggest fall right now, their front court. And the Lakers have arguably, if not the best, big in the league. You know what?

Here's what this is going to boil down to, Logan. And I want to get your take on it too. This is going to be a stylistic matchup, right? And LeBron always loves to play fast or so he says. Like, he thinks they're better when they play fast. I would make the argument that this is the one team, you don't want to get up and, like, you don't want to get into a rat race with what Brooklyn is going to look like when they're firing on all cylinders. So I think it's whoever can command the pace of the game in a series like that is going to win it. Like, what say you?

I think that too, I think that this is a team if they're going to play like if the nets are going to be a fast team, we obviously slow them down. but you slow them down with your biggest strain, which is Anthony Davis in the post. My question to you, though, throw it right back to you, is how do you stop a fast team from getting stopped? Like how did a team stop the Phoenix Sun seven seconds or less?

Because you guys were trying to get up and down the floor and run people off the floor. How do people stop you guys? Yeah, that's a good question. See, the thing with playing fast is it's the most natural thing for people because it's the way you play pickup and it's the way you play on the park and stuff like that. So it's easy to bait a team into getting up and down with you. So our son's teams, like, you know, it was easy for us to bait people into getting up and down because guards want to get up and down. Bigs typically don't, but guards are like, heck it, we'll go.

Let's ride. And so you could get them caught up. I think running offense, Logan, which is kind of a dying thing in the NBA right now, like running true offense helps slow a game down, right? Like we're going to get in and be very deliberate about getting into our sets. Do you know what I mean? And our sets aren't going to be, you know, coming down into some quick pistol action, which is guard, guard hits ahead, flies off the other guard.

And then, you know, we run into a ball screen. And then the shots up within seven seconds or eight seconds of the shot. Like I'm talking about bring it down and run a true set. And to your point where we have the mismatch with Anthony Davis, I know he doesn't love to touch it on the block, but we're going to touch it on the block. Because putting it into the post or into the midpost really slows the game down, right? It really can take the air out of the ball at times,

command a double team, swing, swing, swing to the corner. Now we're sitting on like, I don't know, five seconds in a shot clock. That's how you take the air out of a running team. Can you dig what I'm saying? And then really, really pound the offensive glass. Is that why the spurs and sometimes the Mavericks gave you guys trouble because they had those post-dominant players like a Dirk or or Timmy? Yeah, and they weren't they weren't coming down shooting the early random three, right? They had they had Dirk, they had Tim, you knew they were going to touch the ball.

But even when they got out in transition, if it wasn't a layup and an advantageous like good look at the basket, like analytics be damned. They weren't just coming down there and casting the three up, right? So they would just let the secondary kind of flow in, and they'd run whatever secondary break they were going to run, and they would just kind of get you down into the eight, seven, six range. And before you know what, you're defending a little longer than you want to. And that's how you control pace at a game. I could see that.

I could, I mean, you know, watching, you know, I used to watch you guys play after you guys beat the Lakers. And that would be you guys as Achilles Hill. was just like, what did we do now? Like, what is it, what, what happens, especially against the spurs. So that's going to be something that I look, look at with the Brooklyn Nets. I think that honestly, man, I wish, and Sasha put it in the chat, I wish we were outside for this, man.

I wish we could see the Lakers versus the Nets, Brooklyn versus L.A., man. You know what I mean? I just, I just wish we could see that, man. The people need to see that. The people need to see that. And I want to ask you a question. How do you feel? about viewing the NBA now,

that they're back in their home arenas without the fans. Like, I really like the bubble. The bubble didn't bother me that much. How do you feel about the home arena viewing experience? It's like, bro, they tease me, bro, because, like, I want to watch it in person. You know, we work hard to get credentials to watch this in person. I wish that, you know, you could see it with the fans.

in there. You know what I mean? Especially where I'm at a Chase Center or, you know, Staple Center. Like, it's cool, but you know Staples Center when there's fans in there. You know the vibe when you go to Staples and play the Lakers or play the Clippers. Like, there's a different vibe. Or when you go

to Madison Square Garden and there's fans in there versus it's empty for shoot-around. Like, you know what I mean? It's a different vibe. So I wish there were fans there. I wish we were, you know, selfish that was out of it. No, but like you're viewing it, watching it on TV. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

That's a fair point. So I'm going to sound like a really, I don't know, I'm going to sound like real boozy like or whatever, but a viewing experience is way better on television. It is. Like, it just is what it is. You, I don't know how it is for you. Like, if you're injured or something and you're on the bench,

but like when we're up there in the stands, like there's so many distractions. I could be real with you. I've only, I probably only watched. maybe 10 or 15 games with very a lot of intent, like just like intense focus on the games. Right.

You know what I mean? When I'm during covering the games, like covering the Warriors and stuff like that, that's, I think there's only been about 10 or 15 games because there's, you're looking at, oh, who's in the stands or, or what's going on in the arena or like,

just things that have nothing to do with the game. But on TV, yeah, everything is there. Bro, I find myself drifting into casual fandom, right? Because I miss the bullshit going on in the arena. I miss the people. I miss looking to see who's in the front row of the game.

But you don't go to the game. As a media member, you don't go to the games to watch the game. No. You go for all the stuff that's around it. I'm talking about me sitting on my couch watching a game right now. Like when I tuned in the night to watch Utah versus Denver, now I'm way more focused. on what's happening in the game because there's nothing else happening around there, right?

Like there's no crowd noise. There's no, but I find myself like, damn, dog, like I really miss the vibe that is an NBA game. I miss the shit. I miss the arena, man. I miss the people. I do. You know, even at home on a TV. Well, yeah, because you can see how big the stakes are when their fans are in the arena.

You could just see it. And also, man, when it's the postseason and there's fans involved, the fans might win you one game, you ain't supposed to win. No doubt. You know, it's, I do like that. But when as a media member, though, like I do like watching games. Like if I'm going to watch the technical side of stuff, I like watching that on TV more than, because like I said, for me, I don't go to the games per se to watch the game. And it's weird to say it. I don't think, I think you would understand that, Raj.

I'm not sure like an average fan would get that aspect of it. But we go to see people. We go to like, hey, Roger's in town. I don't get to, he doesn't, he only comes to the bay twice a year. Let me go tap in with Roger. Right. You know what I mean? You go see how he's doing.

Or, you know, a scout is here or maybe an agent is at this game. You got to watch. Sure. But yeah, like, I do miss the fans in there, though. I say I'll have to say I do miss the fans. But I know personally, I just get distracted by, a lot of different things when the game was going on with fans in there, as opposed to when I'm at home, I can just watch the game.

Yeah, the breakdown of a game. I mean, you have a pause button. You can rewind. Like, I'm sitting there really breaking it down. I'm stealing plays for, like, my high school kids and my youth program and stuff like that. Like, that's a breakdown level that you don't get when you're there. So at home, yeah, for sure. For the true NBA analyst, like, the person that wants to break it down, like, I can dig it.

I'm just saying, man, I'm getting casual in my old age because I missed the whole, I miss the vibe. I just missed the vibe. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's point blank this pandemic sucks. How about that? There you go. Point blank. Let's take a quick break.

And I got something to talk to you guys about and you will find out after the break. Ha! The Ringer NBA show is proud to be presented by Fandle. Never played an NBA Daily Fantasy on Fantasy before. Right now, Fandil is offering up to a $500 bonus instantly. when you make your first deposit with a 20% deposit match. Fandle is so easy to use and for daily fantasy, you can pick up a new team every game.

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Now, Raj, I was, you know, I obviously saw the James Hardin trade and was looking at the coverage around the trade. And one thing that I saw was, it's alluding that Shaq and James Hardin have a bit of a beef, Roger Bell. And it stems from comments that Shaq said on inside the NBA about Hardin. Hardin responds on Instagram, on his Instagram story. I don't even know if you know how to work in Instagram story, Roger. Chill, dog. Chill. And then De Wade, Dway chimes in.

So a bunch of people chime in. So let's, it all started with Shaq, who said, well, actually, it all started with James Hardin, in that, in that press conference where he said he gave it all to the city. It's over. I don't know if you saw that one, but it was basically like his last presser at Houston. We didn't know he was going to get traded, but it was a, a feeling that he was going to get traded, right? I gave my all to this city.

I'm paraphrasing, but that's pretty much what he said. Right. And so, Shaq said, when you say you gave the city your all, that ain't true. And he pointed out that the front office gave him Dwight Howard, that gave him Chris Paul, gave him Russell Westbrook.

And none of that turned out to be a good fit for him. Right? They overhauled the entire roster for him. And he says, when you're the man, and you make all the money, you make $30, $40 million a year. It's a big responsibility. Chuck has said this many times. When you're on a team, you've got a real responsibility.

It's on you. When it comes time to show up, and he ain't show up. So a lot of people in Houston are glad he's gone. Now he's got his little super team. He's got to win this year. He don't win. It's a bus, period. Now, James Harden response.

And he says, we do all this talking about uplifting the next African-American athlete male. And some of these ex-players use their national TV with their own social media to do the opposite. I see it. I just stay to myself. The real never lose. Shout to Dwayne Wade for being solid. Now, I have to ask you as a former player, who critiques players on a, you know, on a weekly basis?

Do you feel there's a response? Critics players. Do you feel that who side do you want on this argument? Do you feel that black former players have a responsibility to just have the current players? No. No, I do not. No. Okay.

I mean, why not? Because, Logan, just because you're a color or let's say just because you happen to be the same color as me doesn't mean I have to have your back in every case scenario, right? What if you are wrong? Like I can't just have your back blindly because you're the same color as me. Having said that, no, I do believe in black folks having black folks back and, you know, if they are in the right, trying to make sure that the right narrative is kind of spoken about that. Can you dig what I'm saying? I'm trying to navigate through my thoughts here.

But I don't think you're blindly going to just have. have someone's back because you're the same color as them. Like, you can disagree with the way someone handles their business. Um, you know, if, if you're both black or if you're both white or if you're both like, you know, Hispanic, I don't, I don't think that race has anything to do with you having someone's back if you don't agree with what they're doing. I don't think that, that's a guaranteed thing. I think that everything Shaq said in terms of what happened with James Hardin and Houston is pretty bulletproof in fact, right? Like he did have,

he did get all these players put on to him. It didn't work out. James Hardin, the numbers even suggest, and we've seen him with our eyes. In close games, he has not shown up most of the time. I mean,

that's fair, right? That's happened. It's a critique as a, no matter what, it was facts, right? He's not talking about, I don't think that anything Shaq said necessarily was off base.

And that, I will say that, like, you know, this is a bigger conversation, but I do say, think that black folks have a responsibility to make sure it's told the right narrative is spoken on other black players, especially in this day and age in the media. Is that fair? That's very fair. That's very fair. I can dig that. But that doesn't mean you're going to blindly go out there and support someone that you may feel didn't go about something the right way. And you have journalistic integrity, too. Like, can you dig what I'm saying, though, Logan? Like, you got to keep it a buck. No, no, I don't think that in this case that Hardin should have put race into this exactly. Like, I think he could have just, if he had a beef with Shaug, he could have been like, yo, you got me messed up and this is why. Because I don't know, because I don't think that in that quote, and I saw the clip, I don't think that anything had to do with like he messed up because he lost because he was black.

Like, I don't think that that was the case. However, you know what I mean? I got it. I didn't think it was a race to be. anyway in that response. It didn't need to be involved. That's the best point you can make about it. And because by that logic,

like I could never say anything bad about the way Kyrie's handling the situation in Brooklyn, right? Because he's black and I'm black. That's just ridiculous, right? Like, I just, I disagree with the way it's being handled. So I have to say that. That's my job.

I will say I do disagree with sometimes how these, how these black athletes are being covered. I do say that. And that's another thing that I could, say like I don't I don't like that I don't I don't like in a lot of ways how black folks get covered in mainstream media as as you know in general do you think that how do you feel as a player when you were playing did you towards um you know when you saw somebody that looked like you in the media did you did you ever blink towards it or did you ever feel any kind of way we're like man I don't see a lot of me here um I mean was it was it not something that that players are cognizant of them look, I'm always aware. Logan, we live in a world where once you, you know, as unfortunate as it is, as it is, you know, once you kind of reach a certain level of professionalism in some fields,

you don't see the same amount of faces in the crowd that look like you as you would. You know what I mean? Like when you hadn't reached that level yet. And so I was always acutely aware of that, but not, you know, that's not just in the journalism field. That's in a lot of fields. Like you go into the doctor's offices, you know, you don't, it's, it's disproportionate. You know what I mean?

Like, you go into a courtroom, it's disproportionate. Like, it's just, you know, head coaches is disproportionate. It's just what it is, right? So I didn't, I wasn't really super aware of that. But if I'm, if I am being honest, like, given the opportunity, like, if a young Logan had ran up on me and I was like in a hurry and I needed to get out of a locker room and I had some shit to do. And I was like, yo, man, I got to go.

I'm getting up out of here. I'm not doing anything else. If a young Logan had came up and been like, yo, I'm Logan Murdoch, like, I'm trying to cut my teeth. Like, this is what I, man, it would really help me out. I'm going to do that. Do you understand what I'm saying? Like, that I'm going to hold down because I feel like that's my responsibility. But I can't say that I was super ever aware of that.

Any more than I would have been in any other field is my bad. Got it. Because I know sometimes, you know, us is like, like media members are like, yo, man, you know, like we're covering you fairly. We don't do no like undertones when we write yourself. We try not to. We actually are more cognizant of like, you know, surfing around racial undertones to tell a story, right? And not like, you know, there's different nuances on how you're covered. And you're like, yo, what?

You wrote, you wrote that? Why would you say that? Like, well, that doesn't make me feel right. You know what I'm saying? Roger, when you see a column like talking about you and you don't really know like, yo, man, that made me uncomfortable. Yeah, I never had a, I never had someone write a. piece about me that made me feel like there was a racial like motivation there or or painted a

picture uh because of their biased like you know what i mean like that that never happened to me i would ask you though like as as a journalist like you're in those rooms all the time like were there people or they chal knew were just like yep that one uh i think that would yes but i think that the biggest thing is we need to have more diverse newsrooms in general right because Like, I mean, Sasha's from St. Louis, right? I've never been to, I've only been to St. Louis one time in my life. For me to speak on things that happen in St. Louis right now, I would, I feel personally that I wouldn't be versed enough to do it, right? Like, I wouldn't be versed enough to say that experience.

I have never been to the Virgin Islands before. You can't expect me to write something very, very, very accurate about something that's very specific to the Virgin Islands. Islands, I've never been there before. Right. Now, if somebody from the Virgin Islands could probably tell Roger Bell's story better than I can or in Florida better than I can. But, like, that's why we need more representation all around from, you know, black, white, Hispanic, non-binary, male, female. I think that's why we need that because things slip through the cracks anyway. Like, because people already have their biases in general anyway.

So I feel like in order for us to write and cover a complete world, we have to have a diverse set of people in the media space. Yeah, I think. No, listen, I would, I would agree with you. I think that's very fair. I do want to go back to the James Harden Shack thing, though. I do, like, I want to defend James Harden. I haven't done it that much since, you know, him not reporting to camp. and then being at the ice ball

and all the things that were going on with James Harden before the trade. But I do think Shaq, just because someone doesn't show up, like, and have, I don't mean show up, but just because someone's numbers aren't as good in the big games as you think they should be

or as they needed to be for their team to win, that doesn't mean that person didn't give their all. And that's fair too, right? Like James Hardin might have struggled in some of those, big games. That could be a fact. That doesn't mean he didn't lay everything on the line in those big games. It just means he wasn't great in those big games. So when he gets up there and says, I gave everything to the city, I want to be fair to him too, right? Like, but I mean, he's the

second best rocket since. I mean, I would say he did because I would say he's the second best rocket of all time, to be honest. Behind Hakeem. But what I'm saying behind Hakeem, what I'm saying with Shaq is like, when I say I agree with what Shack said, I say like, yo, man, you are. And he said that you, I wouldn't say it's baloney that you didn't get, I would clarify and say, I don't think it's baloney that,

that, I don't think it's whack that, like James Harden, I feel like he did give all to that city. Like he, the Rockets have never, have never been that good. Well,

they have been that good. They won the two titles. But other than that, they haven't been that good since. And he brought them the heights that they, probably the second best team of this era. I mean, behind,

behind the warriors, right? The only reason why they didn't win because of the Warriors. But Shaq did say, yeah, man, like you didn't no matter what the case is, you didn't show up in those big moments. That's fair, though. I mean, again,

like all these things can be true, right? Like, that is fair. If you're saying he didn't perform well in those, and it's your job as the number one who gets paid as the number one who is the MVP to show up, and you did not. That's fair too. Yeah. I think so. I mean, I think so. And also, one thing,

I'm sure it'll come up at some point. Well, the first thing I think about when I see what James did, like in Houston, at least this season, I don't know if we know the whole story just yet. Like I just don't know. Maybe, you know what I mean? There was some reports out, like new ownership. Right.

That hasn't necessarily, the downfall of the rockets can be, can be pinpointed right. when Fertilla bought the team. Just the downfall in general, right? They were well-run organization. They were getting to the postseason. They were, they gave the Warriors their best shot twice.

Ever since Fertilla bought the team, it's been downhill. And I don't know the inner workings of that, but a lot of people that made the rocket success for are no longer there. So I don't know what James was going through. And like I said, like this league,

like something will get out. But I'm just going to say I'm curious to see that part of the story as to why James was just so fed up with what was going on. That'll be very interesting. And a lot of times organizations, yes, the changes start to happen behind closed doors. They start to happen in the structure of the company. And then it's, you know, that happens first. We're not privy to that. And then you start to see the products start to suffer a little bit.

You get coaching turnover and player turnover. And then before you know what the product starts to slip. But to your point, it's organizational dysfunction that kind of. starts that, right? Like I talk about that a lot. My only beef with James, like my beef with James in this, like I am always for a player, um, executing or, or leveraging their, their power and, and, and I'm for player empowerment. I didn't like the way it was handled, not reporting. I thought you owed it to Steven Silas. If you're going to then, okay, here's what's interesting. You're going to play the race card, right? If you're going to play the race card on Shaq, we talk about young,

um, you know, black coaches not getting the same opportunity and you had one come to Houston. And it might have sabotaged Silas's reign. You know what I mean? You absolutely, you didn't treat that with the respect that it deserved. So don't turn around and play the race card on me. But, you know, the last three games, he was in Houston, Logan. That man was going out there getting like 15, 16. Like, you could sell his, he wasn't.

Like, you're in that with your teammates, dog. Like, and I, and it wasn't because you weren't good enough because you went to Brooklyn. He's throwing passes out of bounds and stuff. Right. You go to Brooklyn and drop a, what, 30. triple double on your first night and two nights ago, you had like 15 with 12 turnovers? Like, you weren't even trying for your teammates.

That bothered me. He looked so happy in Brooklyn, bro. He looked so free. And I'm cool with that. Like, I'm glad you got what you want. But while you were still in Houston under contract, you owed it to the PJ Tucker's. Like, you owed it to the,

you owed it to the John Walls. You owed it to the Christian Woods. Hey, listen. Like, you owe it to those dudes. Even to the DeMarcus cousins who bought, who signed. for a bet minimum deal? You owed it to them.

Like who was trying to get his career back on track? Like, you know. That's my beef. I can dig that. I can dig that. What is it like in a locker? I don't know if you've ever been in a toxic locker room with somebody. Have you been in a toxic locker room with someone who's trying to get traded?

Just like actively just trying to leave? No. Not that I can recall. Not anyone that's just doing whatever they can to get traded. I probably would. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, yeah. I just, I mean, so how do, okay, so boom, so how do you remain a good teammate while also like beefing, outwardly beefing with coaches and GMs? I try, well, I, you know, when I was outwardly beefing with the coaches, like I would, you know, I had Gordon Hayward and Earl Watson was on that team and, and Alec Burke was on that team.

I'm trying to think of all the names, but I kept it a buck with them. Like, I was still cool with them. I still worked hard with them. I still pulled for them, competed with them, did what I could to prepare them in practice and stuff like that because that was my job, right? And given the opportunity, if they had put me in a game, I wasn't going to shit the bed on purpose because I didn't like what was going on with the organization. I would have competed.

I just wasn't really given that opportunity. But the way you manage that, Logan, is you kind of, you compartmentalized, dog. My beef isn't with my teammates. My beef isn't with the dudes that I spend all my time. time with that I work together with towards this common goal. My beef is with like the coach and with ownership and you've got it to whatever degree you can articulate that to your teammates so they know. Like, dog, this shit ain't got nothing to do with you. This is between me and them. I still, I still get down with you guys. I'm still in this with you and I'm riding with you. I just have a

problem over there. Wait, so how does it, how do you compartmentalize that? Because you could just spoil the whole bunch, right? Like, it's like the bad kid in class who was like, man, fuck that teacher. This is why this teacher's trash. This is why they trash. Man, I told you they was trash. And then they turned the whole team against the teacher or the whole team against the coach. How do you compartmentalize to be like, fuck that motherfucker?

But I'm going to make sure that this is all my guys are straight and I'm not going to cloud their judgment with what they're doing because there's two different things. It's two different things that we're dealing with right now. Yeah, that's a tough line to tell, bro. It is. And I think it's a two-way street, Logan, right? Because, you know, I think as a player, you have enough respect for how hard it is to get to the NBA. And the uncertainty about how many NBA games you get in a career to know how important every one of them is, right? Because you never know who's on that team playing in their last one before they got to go to the G League and they don't get a chance to come back up.

You never know who's on a retirement year. So you don't want to waste anyone's time by being that dude. So you're cognizant of that and you're trying very hard to compartmentalize and make sure that you're not letting what's going on with management and the coach seep into the locker room and affect anyone else. At the same time, a coach has got to be a willing participant in that. And he's got to understand that you can't be needling and messing with somebody to a point where it gets to that point.

Do you understand what I'm saying? And I'm not saying that happened to me. I'm saying it's got to be kind of a two-way street, right? Coach and player both. A coach has to be smart enough to understand, hey, I got somebody in a locker room who is, like, not happy. And I can't be fucking with him. Because unless they're going to get him up out of here, that is going to be a problem. Right?

If he's in that locker room and he feels like I'm fucking with him and we're already sideways, that's going to turn into something that I can't, I can't control as a coach and we can't get them out of here and now we got a real problem on our hand. So I think, you know, it takes a little bit of cooperation from two parties that, you know, aren't cooperating well to begin with. Did you, what does it like to get traded?

Yeah, that sucks. Almost traded. That sucks. Do you, how many times you've been traded or almost trade? I don't know how many times I was almost traded. I've been traded twice, twice, I think. I got traded from Phoenix. I found out I was, we were in, we were in L.A.

staying at the Beverly Wilshire. The first bus was about to leave. I was a second bus guy. And my phone rang. It was a number of a friend of mine who I played with in the CBA. And he said, hey, man, I was like, yeah, what's that Lowe? He was like, yeah, man, I think you just got traded. I was like, what?

He was like, yeah, I'm really good friends with Jay Rich's like wife. We go back to like high school. She said you and J. Rich were just traded and there's some other pieces in a deal. So I got on a phone with my agent. I hadn't heard from Kerr. And, you know, long story short, I had been traded. So I said goodbye to everybody in the hallway as they were going to their buses. Like everybody was like, oh, fuck.

Like, you know, we've been there a long time. It was sad. And so I dapped everybody up. I had just had my second son. And so Charlotte was like, look, you got 24 hours to go home and pack your stuff and meet us in Charlotte. And so I went home, kissed the wife, told her she had to pack up the house and sell it, left my two boys and reported to Charlotte. So, L.A. Phoenix, Charlotte. Quickly in 24 hours, dog, with two duffel bags, we're out.

Are you serious? How do you, where do you live? What do you do? Tell me, I'm so intrigued by, like, a life of a player that's gotten traded. Yeah. You go to, like, do you get a house? Boom. So here's what happens.

You get. Tell me everything to happen, bro. Yeah, dog. So you go, like, you get all your stuff. You hustle up. You have to tie up all loose ends. We had just started a business in Phoenix. So within the 24 hours, I got a game plan with my wife. I got to make sure she's straight with the kids. She's got to have help packing the house up. And then we got to kind of figure out how we're going to transition this business. I'm on a plane. I get picked up by, you know, your welcoming staff will probably be a manager or something like that.

And then they just basically take you and drop you at the hotel. They drop you at the hotel in town. And they're like, yeah, we'll pick you up tomorrow for practice at 10 a.m. So, you know, you show up the next day. You meet all your teammates at practice. You know, they probably get you some sort of rental car or something like that. And then it's house hunting, right? So they put you with a realtor and you start canvassing the town for places to live, which schools would be appropriate.

Hopefully they have a good realtor. And then it's about finding, you know, the nuances of it are now I got to find a crib. I'm not buying it because I'm on, oh, I'm on a little. one and a half year deal, but I don't really want to lock into a long-term lease either because I don't know the area well enough and I don't know if they're going to flip me again. So I need like a month-to-month rental, right? So it's just, yeah, it's tough. Now, you get paid well to do it, but like all that transitioning becomes really, really difficult.

And it's around Christmas and stuff like that. And then you got to think about the game, right? So how do you compartmentalize that, right? Your wife is back, and I'm assuming back in Arizona and then you got to and your kids are back Arizona and then you got to figure out how to sell a crib and then all this stuff, but then you have to play the game. How does that? How do you do that? Yo, that's why I thought it was so dope that James Hardy came out. And to your point, looked like he was just super happy and excited to be where he was because I couldn't make a bucket

for like four games. Like they brought me there to shoot the ball. And I kept saying to Larry Brown, like coach, I promise you, man, it's coming. I just, I don't know what's going on. I was I was elsewhere. Like my thoughts were elsewhere. My spirit was at home. Like, I, I didn't want to be traded. It hurt me. Like, you know, it sucked. Like, I was commiserating over, like, crying over spilled milk, if you will. Like, I was already gone and I was still wishing I was in Phoenix.

So I was hurt and I was still there mentally and emotionally. So I couldn't really go out on the court and be productive, dog. Or I wasn't good enough to both be hurt and still produce. James Hardin, and I think you had a great point. Like, he's happy to be there. You could see it. He was hooping. When did you feel right?

it took me about four games man it took me about four games um it it took me figuring out um that everything at home was going to be cool and then it took me real talk getting angry like i was over the hurt you know what i mean like i was over that i was hurt like i felt disrespected you know i was in my feelings about it but reality it was what it was like i wasn't going back to phoenix you know i i mean like i was now in charlotte and it became like what are you going to do about that you're just going to cry and shut it down, like, or you're going to try to make the most of this. And so, you know, eventually that inner competitor comes out. But it took me going through a range of emotions with that.

That's crazy, man. Well, that's a, I love that we can do that on the ruins, man. Just like pull the curtain back on just on what is life like in the NBA and what it is like to be traded. It's people just see it as a transaction, man. No, like you're uprooting a life, especially when you have a family. Oh, yeah. dog and and what people what gets lost in it logan like and you know people don't care because NBA players make so much money but you're talking about like the complexion of a locker room like

when that's your home not just your family in terms of your wife and your kids but like Sean Marion Steve Nash Leandro Barbosa Maristotomay that was my family too you know like that was my family and so you know that was kind of a mature group of dudes like we did things a certain way we like to hang out and have dinners and drink wine and do that. And then I got to Charlotte and they were a bunch of great guys. But my first interaction with them was at a holiday party where they rented out at movie theater and everybody was playing like 2K on the big screen. And I'm sitting in there like, what?

Hey, yo, I'm young so that sound kind of fire. No, but look, my kids would love it too. But it was just a culture shock from me on top of all of the rest of the stuff going on. I was at a different point. It took me a while to really start to groove and catch a vibe with my new teammates because it was just different. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and to go to a locker room where there's, when you go from Steve Nash and Marri Stad and Martinandro Robosa to go on, we're with Jay Rich, but you're also with Stephen Jackson, right? Stephen Jackson was on that.

No, so Stack and I got traded a year later for each other, right? Like, so it was- Oh, got to, got, got, it was me, Raymond Felton, DJ Augustine, Gerald. Wallace. Oh, that's when you went to Pete. So you got traded from Charlotte to Piedmont. From Charlotte to Piedmont. Play for the Warriors. Yep. Wow. That was, was that weird too? How was that? Because that's, then you're injured, right? So like, and you don't even give me that trade story. That sounds wild. That was an interesting one too. So I had just said I was having surgery. Larry Brown, I guess, was like, yeah, we can't use them anymore. Let's flip him out. So they flipped me. So I told Don Nelson like, hey, man, I'm having this risk surgery. Like, I, you know, here in Charlotte in like a month, what do you want me to do?

And they were like, well, stay home. And then they called me back like an hour later. Where's home? Are you going? Are you staying in Charlotte? I'm in Charlotte. Like, and so, you know, I'm, I'm in Charlotte. We said it. We had just moved from that first like month to month rental I told you about

into like a one-year lease on a golf course, set up my son's rooms, like all of that, bro. Whole life just put back together in Charlotte. And now you're traded again. So they were. Golden State was like, come play this one game in Boston. I did that. And then I came back home, had surgery. And I reported to Golden State with about a month left in the season. So it wasn't, like, it wasn't that much of a culture shock for me because I was just doing rehab. I got to know the guys a little bit.

I traveled, but I didn't really play. And I was kind of, I was in a role of like an elder statesman type of, you know, just kind of be around and be a mentor to the guy. So it was cool. It wasn't that bad. It was the last year of my deal. I wasn't really trium. So there was no coach of shot going to coming to the bay. Like did you bring the fam out here? Like how does this how does that work? Like you're already in Charlotte and do you have to uproop like what the fuck? Like what do you do? Yes. Luckily my boys weren't in school yet. They were still really young. So we took it my wife and I took it as like you know we could we could we could kind of pick them up and move them and and and have them experience like different arenas and stuff like that. Because that's that's you know that's really one of my favorite parts of my MBA memories. or when my kids were old enough to stand there and give guys high-fives coming off the court. And I wanted them to be able to partake in that. So I moved them all out to the Piedmont area with us.

And we made the most of it. You know, it's still your life. Like, you're hooping, but that's not your whole life, you know? Like, so, you know, we tried to keep life as normal as possible outside of the trades. That's what's up, man. Well, yeah, man, there's been a real interesting. I like this real ones.

It's been a real interesting real ones, man. nice little Sunday night edition. A little Sunday night edition, dog. So you're on record. Your on record is saying Kyrie, James Harder, and KD, figure it out. And that's, and that's, all right. I think they go to the finals and lose to the Lakers in five or six. All right, I got you.

Is that fair? What about you? It's fair. I don't, I could see that. Yeah, listen, I'm with you. I said the best three players. No, make a prediction. Make a freaking prediction.

No, I told you. I got the Lakers. of the Lakers, the Lakers are winning. I think they don't have an answer for that. But I would still explore flipping Kyrie for two complimentary pieces, just saying. That's not going to happen. All right. Well, that's been another edition of the Real Ones podcast on the Ringer NBA feed.

Actually, tap into the mismatch, the group chat. Make sure you tap into the answer with Chris Ryan. Don't forget, we have a new little show, Roger Bell. It's called Ringer MBA University. That's with Kevin O'Connor, Jonathan Charks, and Jay Kyle Mann. They talk about the young players in the league and the top prospects on their way to the NBA. Make sure, most importantly, you come back to us on Thursday for another edition of the real ones. We'll see you then.