The Ringer NBA Show - The New Lakers, the New-ish Rockets, and GM Survey Takeaways | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 314)

Episode Date: October 4, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor give their takeaways from watching the renewed Lakers (6:45) and reloaded Rockets in person (27:32). Then, they react to the GM survey (40:43) and discuss some story lines floating around the league (46:52). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon, joining me as he typically does on Tuesday, but this week we are doing a special episode on a Wednesday is Kevin O'Connor from the ringer.com, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'O. Candyland, aka Kevin O'Climber. Kevin! Chris, what's going on, man? How's your day?

Everything's good. Last night, both of us were in attendance of unbelievable NBA preseason action. I always get excited that the NBA is back and going. And then I go to the preseason game and by the third quarter, I'm like, oh, gosh. I got to watch the rest of this. I got to watch the rest of this. And first things first, I looked up to see how many fouls were called in your game. It was 55.

in the one I went to, I went to Grizzlies Rockets, you went to Lakers Nuggets. There were 71 fouls called in the game that I went to. Oh, God. And it was unwatchable. I mean, Chris Paul had four fouls

in the first maybe 15 minutes of the game, and Mike D'Antony is like, yell at the rest. Now, the game was in a neutral side in Birmingham, Alabama. So when you get two teams playing in a place like that, that's the one NBA game that is played there.

And, I mean, it's a big arena, like the kind of arena that, like, like Jay Cole just played it. So it's that big. And it's completely sold out. Why is he a cold out of curiosity? Well, I'm just saying, like, he's a big act that's like playing arenas right now. I'm just saying he's a big act that can fill in a big arena. Okay.

If he goes to a particular city. So it's like a concert size arena. I don't know how many would hold. I'd guess 15,000. All right. sold out, Colt, all the way to the top of the rafters, because this is the only NBA game that is there. You know, they have Robert Ory come out. He's an Alabama legend and obviously played for the Rockets.

He comes out and says, you know, thanks so much for supporting this. We want to get more, you know, NBA games to get to come here and whatnot. So anyways, you got all these people that are getting to see the NBA. And I said that Paul gets the four fouls. First, there's somebody that stands up in the crowd. And they're like, we're not here to watch the refs. And Paul, like, turns to rev. He's like, will you please listen to these people, right?

And Dan Tony, like, comes down the side. He's like, Chris has four fouls. Look at all these people in these stands. They did not pay to watch you. They didn't pay to watch you. And perfect, you know. And I actually agreed with them. There were 36 fouls called in the first 15 minutes of the game.

And what they are doing is this whole freedom of movement rule, which for people that have not watch the NBA yet, Some of these games, the referees are going really hardcore on it as to express like, hey, this is the way the game's going to be called now. Obviously, the NBA players aren't used to it at all. But the gist is you can't touch a guy moving. So if a guy's cutting to the basket, when you typically put your arm out or you typically try to grab him or clutch him, nope.

When you're coming around a screen, you can't grab the guy. You know, you can't hook him with your arm. Like all these little, you know, nifty moves that the Chris Pauls of the. world have done for 10, 15 years, impeding progress, they're calling everything. So preseason's already a tough watch. This, at least on my end, made it infinitely harder to watch. What was your game like? You know, I think just on what you said about the Files, I'll be curious to see how that

impacts Bigman, like Joel Embed, someone like that, who already was a magnet drawing falls in the low post. I wonder if he becomes somebody that, you know, obviously the low post is an inefficient play in the league, but for some of these low post players, maybe there's more if referees are blowing the whistle a little bit more, and maybe that restores a little bit more balance to the game rather than the, because we've had a constant ascension of three-point shooting in the league, right, Chris? But maybe now some teams that have big men like Embed feel a little bit more willing to feed the post, knowing that there could be a higher percent chance they draw a file. Well, and all the guys that make a living off cutting to the basket, like those guys now,

I mean, you're talking, you can get in the bonus quick, really quick. So obviously it puts an on us on having some shooters on the floor for sure, because you can get to the bonus quick in these games. And I do think on the, you know, on the flip side, after the guys all get used to it, that it could feasibly make for a better game. But I never particularly thought, that anything was a slog. I mean, do you ever watch the NBA? Like, this was a big problem in the 90s with the clutching and the grabbing. And you could have a playoff game that might be 82 to 76.

And people didn't want to watch that, right? They wanted to see the best players in the world, be the best players in the world. And I just feel like that has not been a big problem. Do you feel like you are watching an era that is too physical or that teams can't run their set because, you know, I mean, I don't know, it feels like correcting something that maybe didn't need to be corrected. I don't know. I'm honestly not reading too much into it because it's so early in the preseason and typically, you know, referees are blowing the whistle more to enforce those rules early, especially early in preseason, then early in the season, but then it

regulates over the course of the season. So honestly, Chris, I'm not too worried about it at this point. But certainly it seems that last night your experience with 70 plus files, however many you said it was, was a shock to the system. It wasn't quite like that for Denver in Los Angeles last night. I had a lot of fun watching that game. Staples Center was all riled up with LeBron James. Honestly, Chris, last night watching LeBron, it's so simple to say, but it was just really cool seeing LeBron James wearing a Lakers jersey playing at Staple Center. It was just cool. much do you hate hearing that, Isaac? Oh, my goodness. It's creating to my ears, man. I hate it so much.

He's going to remind you seven times this year. Now he's in L.A. He's going to talk about how blessed he is to get to watch this guy in person now. Hashtag bless. It used to be reminding us 50 times a year how grateful we need to be that we are getting to witness this. That we, what a time to be alive. What a time. What a time. That's true. Get down on the corner of your bed like a precious memories doll or precious moments doll.

And thank the good Lord that you live in an era where never take LeBron for granted. He tweets that 20 times a year. It's true. It's true. You can search my tweets and I always say, don't take LeBron James for granted. Which is the weirdest thing because nobody ever says like, hey, don't. Because nobody sits around and goes, don't take Aaron Rogers for granted. I tweeted that too.

Oh, no, you didn't. Yes, I did. You can search it right now. Don't take Aaron Rogers for granted. Do you get a feeling all the time that people take things for granted? I think in life, a lot is taken for granted, for sure. Oh, really? Yeah, I think in my own life, there's things I take for granted and I always try to remind myself to be thankful for those things.

Like the gloriousness of being able to watch LeBron James. That's high up there for sure. It's true. Is the Staples Center packed for preseason? Yeah, it was pretty packed. It was loud, too. You know, remember that first dunk LeBron. when he was dribbling up the court.

It was kind of cool watching that because it felt like it didn't feel like it was. Every step he took towards the room, the crowd got a little bit louder. And then with the explosion for the dunk, it was, and it's only preseason, man. It's only going to get more exciting watching these new players on new teams and obviously, especially with LeBron. And I'll tell you what, Lakers lost that game 11 to 11 to the Nuggets. But they were, you know, it's very intriguing watching Luke Wall and integrate some of those small ball lineups with Kuzma, James, front courts, and the amount of versatility there is in the court,

I thought they were a little bit better in the second game here last night against Yokic with Kuzma at the 5 than they were in their first game. And so that progress, granted, again, it's just preseason, that progress is a little bit encouraging because they only have to fail McGee as one of their main big men, Zubots, he's all right. We'll see how Mo Wagner does as he gets back on the court. But McGee's their number one big man, so they're going to have to play. play small ball. And if you're a Lakers fan, it had to have been encouraging to see some progress in that game last night. There's some guys that didn't play, not the least of which is Lanzo

ball. But let me ask you this. He started last night, if I've got this right, Rondo, Hart, LeBron, Ingram, and Javow, right? That was the starting five last night from the Lakers. How different do you think that will be from whatever his opening night lineup is? What do you think the starting five for the Lakers is going to be? Does Rondo start? Does Lanzo start? Do they both? I think that could be the starting five right there.

We'll see about KCP starting over Hart. But personally, I think Hart should start. And one of the reasons why is because he's a better shooter. He's a more consistent shooter. Shot 41% on catch and shoot threes last year. Hart is a baller, man. I think that guy's really underrated. And Caldwell Pope is a good player in his own right as well.

But I really like having heart out there. there for floor spacing purposes with the starting lineup. Then maybe KCP can do a little bit more for you in that bench role playing alongside Lonzo Ball, assuming he also comes off the bench with Kuzma. Lakers are deep. I mean, they're the meme team. They have a lot of goofy players. But there's some good talents on that team as well.

I like their roster a lot. So you think the starting lineup that started last night, Rondo Hart, LeBron, Ingram, Javale could very well be the starters. and then their bench becomes Lonzo, Caldwell Pope, Kuzma, Beasley, Lance, you know, of those guys, whoever gets minutes of those guys. Yeah. And Luke plays

a bunch of guys. I mean, it's not going to be a short rotation. I bet a bunch of guys get minutes for that team. Yeah. And like you said, a lot of guys will get minutes. I think there's a lot of versatility. You can dip into the 10th, 11th guy in that roster if you need to, depending on what the game demands, depending on the matchup. And ultimately, that versatility will be interesting to watch

where it'll be tough for them. them is in some of those against those traditional big men. When Javele McGee is a guy that has really not played over 20 minutes in quite a long time in his career, when the other options, Zubats and Wagner are both incredibly young, they're going to have to play small. And that's going to be really intriguing to watch over the course of the season or if they try to seek out adding another big man at some point. We're going to get to the GM survey a little bit later, but I'd be remiss if I didn't

mention that in their survey, two, in fact, the two, top, breakout candidates for this year, according to general managers across the NBA. The number one vote getter was Jamal Murray. The number two vote getter was Brandon Ingram. Now, I know Murray did not play in that game last night, but I was a little surprised that Murray was the one voted by GMs across the league as the guy that would break out. I actually thought it would be Ingram simply because of getting to play with LeBron. You and I were both, have always been big fans of Ingram.

Love him. You know, it's a third year of maturation, and you could see him as the running buddy with LeBron. We talk about all those other guys on the team. Truth be told, on a nightly basis, who's the other guy getting a bunch of points? Like, the answer's Ingram, right? If it's somebody. Because Rondo doesn't give you a lot of points. Neither does Hart.

Hart will be a double-digit guy, probably. Javall doesn't score a lot. And even those guys off the bench, you know, I'd imagine Kuzma, some nights he's going to get you big nights and then some nights he's not. Caldwell Pope can get you double digits. You know, I'm just saying in terms of the nightly scoring average, I would suspect that the running buddy for LeBron on a nightly basis that's getting, you know, maybe 20 plus points a game could be Ingram, right?

Sure. And I've felt since Ingram was a Duke that there's a chance he someday ends up a top 10 player in the league. He's, well, not there yet. Of course. He's just turned 21 years old. Just turned 21 last month, actually. So this will be his year 21 season.

And he's already pretty good, already a pretty good versatile player. And, you know, he can score from each level of the floor. He can get to the rim. He's gotten better at absorbing contact. His shot has gotten better. I was watching him shoot before the game yesterday, Chris. And, man, I would love to see a side-by-side video of his shot at Duke to what it is now.

It is so much smoother. And if that shot really does continue coming along off the dribble, as is the case for every player, when you can shoot off dribble, that's what can separate you from everybody else in the league. And Ingram can already create. It's about making that shot as good as it can be. And then the one element that's obviously always overlooked with him, in my opinion, is his passing. That's why I think he's going to compliment LeBron so well on the court.

Well, the interesting thing, Kev, is if you know, that Laker team, I know they didn't win a ton of games last year, but if you watch them, there's a lot of fourth quarters where Luke just turned it over to Ingram. Ingram would bring the ball up the court. Especially when Lonzo was out, right? Yeah, right. and he would become their quasi point guard the rest of the game. And so, I don't know, you could tell me, I haven't gotten to see them yet. I haven't seen the Lakers play yet in this preseason. But one of the concerns, if it was true, I don't know, was we talked about guys on their team that really need the ball to be successful, right?

And Rondo falls into that or has throughout his career. Lonzo is certainly a guy that has typically needed the ball. and LeBron, whatever team he's on, ends up being the ball dominator. And then that's not even to mention Ingram. So, right? I know people, you say, listen,

great players end up figuring it out, even if it takes some time, but there's only one basketball. When those guys were out on the court together, is it Rondo running things? Do you still feel like it's LeBron running everything? You just watched the Rockets last night, though, and everybody said that last year about James Hart and Chris Paul.

There's only one ball. How are they going to share the ball? Well, with those guys within that system, they took turns. With, I think, this Lakers system, they play so fast. Whoever rebounds the ball is pushing it immediately, whether it's with a pass or with their dribble, they're pushing the ball quick. After rebounds, after turnovers,

and even after some makes last night, they were pushing. So it's that type of offense, but also in the half court, Luke Walton offense has typically have a lot of ball movement, and maybe that does fizzle out. Like, there's certainly a chance that at some point, LeBron James and Rajan Rondo start pounding the hell out of the ball and slowing it down. That could happen. But what they're trying to do and what it seems like so far they're successfully installing is a ball movement-based system.

And that's where I think Ingram, Lonzo Ball, guys that can play with or without the ball are going to be able to thrive. I think that amount of versatility being able to attack from different points at the court is what makes them super, super interesting this season, even despite still needing to add another star next summer. Right now, they're already very, very interesting. What's their ceiling? The highest seed they could get. Three seed. Three? Yeah.

I'm saying if everything went right, listen, they have LeBron James on their team. And again, for anybody out there that's going, what the hell, you know, to what you're saying? You got to remember, we're a year removed or not even from if you would have said, I think the three seed is going to be Portland. That would have been insanity. Insanity. So you never know, right? The way this stuff's going to play out. Yeah.

Well, you never know who's going to get injured. You never know at the end of the season, a team that was the three seed for a majority of the year, or at least had a shot at it, was Minnesota. And they're fighting for their lives on the last day of the season. So you just never know the way it's going to play out. But you would think you could not foresee any circumstance that they would have a better record than Golden State or the Rockets. They probably won't be the three seed, but you think that would be the best case scenario. Well, I mean, like last year, the 49 wins was the three seed, 46 wins.

was the nine seed. So only three games of separation between three of nine. And based off, you know, projecting ahead this year, it could be very similar. Very similar. Don't you think?

Or even maybe three and 11, it could be really tight. I really think there's going to be a bunch of teams between 40 to, under 50 wins, right? And people say, I think it's going to take 50 wins. Like, dude,

they're all going to beat each other. They really, and the reason why, like, this isn't final. Like, you know, there's still a lot of preseason and watch, a lot of analysis to do. But like, right now on October 3rd,

I would put the Lakers at over 50 wins. And if they're over 50 wins, that's why I feel comfortable saying that they'd be a three-seat, maybe the four, if two teams end up with over 50. I would put them at the three or four seed. Oh, I think it's hard to put together a whole new group of guys and win 50, though. Good, LeBron James, dude. I get it. I get it, but listen, you know it comes down to how engaged he is during the regular season.

He has been a guy that has obviously not given everything every night. You know, he's got to pace himself. It's year what, 15? I mean, he's been in the league for a long time. It's not an every night I've got to win thing. It's a let's be where we want to be by the time it gets to May and June rather than, oh, my God, we can't be losing to the Hornets on a Tuesday night. You know, and granted, it's not the Eastern Conference anymore. The Cavs last year were 35 and 17 against the East, which means they were 15 and 15 against the West.

but I think the Lakers, put it this way, I think last year we might have talked about this on the pod. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but right now I think this Lakers team minus LeBron is better than last year's Cavs team minus LeBron. I think it's a deeper, more talented pool of players surrounding LeBron James where there's not as much pressure on him to have to carry the team every night

because I think they have a plethora of options on that roster. I know that might be silly to say because they don't have a Kevin Love, but they do have a Brennan Ingraham. They do have Josh Hart's of the world. they do have Lonzo Ball. Rajan Rondo really was good last season. They have a lot of good talent on their team. And ultimately, I think LeBron James is what puts them over the edge.

Looking at over-unders, I think they're like 48 and a half. I'd hammer the over on the Lakers this year. Wow, I would not. I think they've got too many goofies. They do. A lot of people are with you. And you know what? I wouldn't blame you for feeling that way.

I really don't because the fact is, yeah, they have a lot of goofy players. on that roster. I mean, there's just too many unknowns, you know what I mean, and how it's going to react when things don't go their way, right? You could say the same about some of these other teams, though. Yeah, no, but they're veterans. That's the thing.

I don't know, man. The guys in the locker room. Who does he have in that locker room that can stand alongside it, right? There's some nights where you ain't got it. And Dwayne Wade is the one that's like jumping up in the locker room and he's saying something about what's going on. When you look around and this Javile, McGee, Lance Stevenson.

Rondo is the guy. Oh, for goodness sakes. Rondo has pissed off every guy he's ever played with. I mean, you know that. Rondo is not exactly the most beloved teammate that people are bad. That's not true. Even on his best teams. That's not true.

Young players have really grown to like Rondo. What? They've really grown to like Rondo. He's turned into a mentor. You think that Réjon Rondo is the beacon for leadership? No, he's the beacon. One of those words. come out of my mouth, Chris. Yeah, I know. I'm just, I'm just saying, I don't, I don't look at LeBron

looking like, don't you think so, Rondo? And like, all of a sudden, Rhonda, who is the beacon for leadership? There's so many different leadership styles. There's vocal leaders. There's leaders by example. Rondo has his own style. He's, he has a voice. Yeah, listen, I know you, I know you went to bed every night in a Rondo jersey. You will, you will follow Rondo to the depths of hell. So there's a, this is not a conversation that you and me need to. That is nothing to do that. Because here, here's my. my Rajan Rondo jersey. Rondo is one of my all-time favorite players. I think Rondo at his peak, 2011, 2012 was extraordinary. But then I really grew to dislike Rajan Rondo as a player.

When he pounded the hell out of the ball, didn't really learn how to play off ball. Post-ACL, he really wasn't that good. But you know what? He has changed. He's turned into a, I think, a good player again. He's not great like he used to be, but he's good. He's solid. Well, if Lance isn't getting minutes and Beasley's not getting minutes. Beasley's going to play. Again, like, Beasley's another one of those guys where, yeah, he's kind of a goofy player, but he's actually pretty solid. He's a solid player.

Yeah, I know. He just needs to contribute. He does. He needs to be able to contribute to winning. He is a guy that gets a lot of buckets when he's playing on horseshit teams. It does have to add up to something. You know what I mean? Like, he's had chances with good teams, Kev.

You know that. And they have said goodbye. over and over again. And then he ends up playing for some rat team that loses 60 games and he scores 20 points and everybody's like, you know? I mean, listen, I've always thought he is a crazy talented guy. There is a reason that we're this far down the road

on Beasley and it's never taken. He's never been a part of like real winning. Every time you've ever been impressed with Michael Beasley, he's playing for somebody crappy. True. True. Two chains. True. Just go ahead and say true.

I'll tell you, hey, don't you do the exasperated mom thing? I am. I am. Oh, you're going to defend a career of Michael Beasley? Come on. Good grief. Now all of a sudden, I got to tell you, Michael Beasley scores on bad teams. Is Michael Beasley a bad player?

Bad? No. No, I'm saying he just has to be able to contribute to winning. Yeah, and his role is as a score. Coming out of the bench, Spark plug score. I'm fine with that. Do it for a win. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, we're about to see that now. Not asking for some kind of crazy request here. All right. You could not, I would imagine, tell much about Denver last night because they had no Jamal Murray, no Gary Harris, Isaiah Thomas didn't play, if I'm not mistaken. So you didn't have any of those going on, right? So pretty hard to get a good gauge on anything Denver related, I would suppose. Yeah, definitely.

I mean, it was tough to get a read on them last night. I thought Yokic, you know, as always, had a intriguing offensive performance. It's fun to watch that dude pass the ball, play make. I like when he gets fed opportunities to score. The way he closed last season, I think he averaged maybe like 24 points over the last month or so. He dropped 20 last night on 10 shots, shot five times from the free throw line. Yokic is interesting. If he can become an above average defender right now, I'd say he's like below average-ish, maybe poor.

but if he can become above average defender at some point during his career he's going to be fun with his offensive skill set isn't he Chris? Is he the next Gasol? The next Mark Gasol? He's an amazing passer. You know, it's funny. Years ago, I was probably two years ago and there's an old episode that I did with Mike Miller,

the former member of the Miami Heat Grizzlies, et cetera, et cetera. And I did this episode with Mike Miller and at the time, he was playing with the Nuggets. It was an offseason. And I asked, him about, you know, Emmanuel Moodye and a bunch of the younger guys on the team, right? And he said, the one is Yokic. And he said, I played with Mark and I played with Powell, both Gassals. And he's like, at his age, he's better than both of them were. Because he was saying, you know, at his eight. No doubt. And he said, he said, this guy could be a 10-time all-star. Now, this is before everybody

knew Nikolai Yokic, right? Like, I mean, this was, this was early in the career. And I remember looking at him like, what? Like, we're talking about a 10-time All-Star? I mean, Miller, obviously, he was on a bunch of great teams, title-winning teams. I mean, and he knew the talent. As you said, it's funny you bring up Gasol because he got that comp

from another player in the league very early as like, this is the kind of guy he is. That's who he reminds me of, except he could be even better than both of them. He is so damn talented for his size. Here's the thing. You know, Mark Grasol was 24 years old when he was a rookie. Yokic will only be 23 this year.

He turns 24 at some point during the season, but it's going to start the year, 23 years old. So he's already, we'll have four years under his belt before Gassol was even in the league. So no doubt about it that he's better than Gassol was at this age. And especially on the offensive end right now, Gassol became a defensive player of the year, an all defensive player as well, that same season.

Two-time All-Star, Yokic, at some point, if he continues getting in better shape, he can be way better. Well, that's the thing. You have to be able to be great on both ends to achieve that. Mark Gassol, not only did he win defensive player of the year, I mean, he was an anchor on a really good team, really good team. And that's what made Gassol special, right? Yolkich right now is a – Yolkitt right now might sound silly to say, but I think he's probably better offensive than Gassol ever was right now based off his passing ability, which is just pure talent perspective.

he's one of the best passing big men ever. Obviously, you need longevity to earn that title, but right in terms of pure skill, he is special. Never mind his floor spacing, never mind his rebounding, never mind the little things he does on the offensive end. It's really about defense, like you said, Chris. The ability to anchor a team on that end of the floor

is what could really propel Denver to the next level at some point. I will always ride for Markisol. I don't want to get in an argument about that. Yeah, me too, man. Markisole is awesome player. it go. I'm going to let that go. I'm a let that go. It's not a knock, though. I'm becoming, I'm becoming a more patient human. I'm going to let that go.

It's not a, it's not a, it's not a not. No, Yokic is a great point. I saw the Rockets in person last night. The most interesting thing was going to be get to see Carmelo playing with them. And who knows how it, like I said, the game was such a mess because all the stupid files. And then by the third quarter, it was Coast time. And let's just get the game done. Hardin and Paul, listen, if you got a team with Hardin and Paul, like Capella and Gordon, you're going to be really good. The rest is what is of interest, right? Because they added Carmillo Anthony,

and then they've got this bench, and it's like Marquis, Chris, it's Carter Williams, it's Gerald Green, right? Neney didn't play, Brandon Knight didn't play. James Ennis actually started in the place of PJ Tucker last night, and Ennis is going to get a lot of minutes for them, for sure.

But Carmelo, he's three of six from three. It was like he was just playing Rockets basketball. you know? Ah, was he? No, I mean, he's three, six of three. Listen, he took eight shots. Six of them for threes. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like so, and it's funny because they bring some guys in and like Carter Williams, he stands out like hell because he never shoots threes. Right? Like that's not his deal. But he was just cutting to the basket and finishing stuff. I'm interested because there's a group of guys you knew Bamute would pull threes, obviously a reason.

pulled threes, Anderson pulled threes. They've got this way that they played. And what's going to be fascinating to me is how to all these new guys fit in it, right? When they're pushing the ball at the court and Carmelo's the guy taking the three instead of Ryan Anderson and Ennis is the one taking the three instead of Areza. And Michael Carter Williams is not taking a three in the place of whoever, right, was getting those minutes prior to. I mean, Gerald Green, I think he shot nine threes last night.

He only made one, but I think he shot nine. But it's the Rockets with these new other guys. And at least for one night, Carmelo was jacking up threes just like the Rockets do. Yeah, they shot 46 threes out of 78 field goal attempts. Remarkable. Right? Yeah. Oh, God, there's a kid who I believe went undrafted, who I saw play a ton in college, Gary Clark. Oh, Gary Clark's fun.

I really like him. I saw him play a lot in the American Athletic Conference. And he, I mean, it's an unbelievable trivia question. He was the conference player of the year. I think everybody would tell you that the other player on his team, Jeremy Evans, who ended up going in the back end of the first round, that Evans was the guy. But in fact, the winner of that award was Gary Clark, all world defensive player. Gary Clark ain't messing around. No, he's all world defensive player in college.

he reminds me when they signed him it's chuck hazy right in the sense that chuck haze was like a guy that like was a really good defender in the post now he's 200 pounds less than chuck hayes but he's along was a conference player of the year kind of does all that you know post stuff will make life hard on you but the damn this thing he shot four threes last night i was like holy mac i got frigget gary clark out there shooting three he's not he's not much of a three-point shooter. He's the guy on defense who makes opponents go black and blue with his toughness.

Yeah. So do you think that we're going to see like big attempts a game from three from Carmelo? Do you think he's just going to... Didn't we argue about this last week? No matter... But seriously, no matter... I'm saying no matter his percentage.

Look, man, like the headline that we put for the article, Carmelo Anthony, it will be the ultimate test of the rocket system. And it's true, the inverse to the rocket system will be the ultimate test of Carmelo Anthony. And last night was encouraging. It really was for Carmelo's role. He spotted up from the corner when he took that mid-range pull-up. He immediately apologized, even though after the game, he was like, that's my game. I'm going to take those shots. And you know what? It's okay.

Like, you're not going to shoot all three-pointers and the Rockets don't shoot all three-pointers. Chris Paul, I forget the staff that on my head. It might have been around like 30% of his shots were from mid-range, which is, I think, highest from the team. But that's okay. Carmelo's going to take him. It's just about curtailing those mid-range shots early in the clock and making him shoot more threes, which he did in game one. And by the way, this is about Mello. Chris, you know, you mentioned how they lost Bahamute and Arisa, and those minutes are going to Camelo and Ennis and Chris and Clark and all those guys now, whoever ends up getting

him. I was talking to someone the other day, and, you know, this has been in my mind, but I feel like there hasn't been a lot of talk for Houston about, well, maybe Baamute is not going to be as good anymore after his second shoulder injury. He wasn't that great when he first came back after the first one. Areza making $16 million, the amount of guys that they're paying rather than giving all that money to Arisa,

Ennis, Mello, Chris, some of those younger guys, it feels to me that that's been a little bit overlooked when it comes to the roster management for Houston where they have a nice set of options on their team now. Even Michael Carter Williams, right? Granted, he's a guard. He's kind of not.

He's 6'6, really long, can defend multiple positions on the defensive end of the floor. They still, I mean, they're probably, be worse in the win total than last year, but they still are so damn good. And I think they've been a little bit underrated because of the losses. The loss has been looked at, but not enough about the additions that they've made. Yeah, I guess my argument would be on, like, Carter Williams is that he stinks. And my argument on Marquis, Chris, would be that he stinks.

Those guys stink. Carter Williams and Chris are fake. You know, it's funny. It's funny. The guys stink, Kevin. What are we talking about? Like, they get garb. Multiple positions.

Like, we got a friggin sample size of them slinking. Listen, okay, so with MCW, I hit him ranked like 36 or something like in the 2013 draft. Like way too low, like way too low. Like I was right that he was bad, but I was wrong to have him that low. You know what I mean? And I'm still not a fan of him now. But you could have fooled me. You were talking about.

What are you talking about? What people have I ever praised Michael Carter Williams. What people haven't brought up is their addition. Like Michael Carter, Williams like what are you talking about the guy saying i didn't say my i didn't say Michael carto williams was like a footnote with that explanation but mcw i'm open to being wrong like maybe maybe with houston and he can be rejuvenated despite the fact he's on three-point shooter who knows well here's the thing you know arisa played 34 minutes a game ryan anderson averaged 26 minutes a game

embomutei averaged 26 minutes a game so the question is who gets those and the answer Jamie Butler, Rockets fans all shout out. Obviously, Carmelo Anthony's going to get minutes. James Ennis is going to get minutes. And then I guess, yeah, your guy. Michael Carter Wood. It's not my guy. If anything, I've been like a MCW hater for a long time.

It's weird, Chris. Like the pods we've done the past month or so, somehow I find myself defending these players that I've long disliked Carmelo, Dwighted White Howard, LMCW. It's because you say something. nice about them and then I remind you they stink and that you were right in the first place. Well, I mean,

I, no, it goes to show if they put on a rocket's jersey, if they put on a Sixers jersey, that's not true. It's about the money. It's about the money.

Contracts are often the most overlooked thing when it comes to player analysis. In my opinion, Carmelo Anthony, $1.5 million. Say all the bad things you want about them, a lot of them are accurate. But at $1.5 million,

I think there's value there. Dwight Howard at $5 million, I think there's value. MCW on a non-guaranteed deal at $1.5 million on a team that, you know what, add another backup point card and see what happens. There's some value. He might not play or contribute at all, but for Houston, I think there's some value. That's all. Yeah. Where I come from, they called these guys bums.

The Kevin O'Connor All-Stars, all these guys, these inefficient guys that actively have made every team they played on worse. Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, MCW. Let me find some more. Michael Beasley, there's my power forward. Yeah, give me the exasperation. It's like shooting adrenaline in my veins. You know about one of them, Chandler Parsons. How dare you?

Last night, New German knees couldn't have looked more help. Hey, here's a little side note. Here's a little side note. And I think that people will find this interesting. So a couple of years ago during that summer where everybody signed those speaking of contracts, those massive contracts, you recall Parsons obviously signed his $94 million deal for Memphis. Eric Gordon signed that offseason with the Rockets. Now, going into that off season, I think people would be surprised to hear. People forget what was going on with Eric Gordon.

He was a guy that never played games. and then these last two seasons, you would admit, as I would, Gordon has been off the charts awesome. Like, six men at the year, awesome. Like, he is great and was awesome in the playoffs. Parsons actually went to Eric Gordon and said, what did you do? Because, like, you were in my spot, right? And he hired all three of the guys that worked with Eric Gordon, like literally the same people. He hired all three of them.

enough money to do it. And then, I don't know if people know this, he went and did the, the Germany thing, you know, the regeneration therapy, as they call it, where you go over there and they draw out the blood and then they spin it and they put it back in and regenerate. Because Gordon, like he did the exact Eric Gordon game plan that has made Eric Gordon these last two years. And so, who knows? Obviously, their situations are different. Who knows how it ends up, but I will tell you that knowing the situation, he went by the book, like, dude, what, what, what did

you do? Because Eric Gordon was a guy that simply could not stay on the floor. And next thing you know, he went and hired these three guys, went to Germany and got the surgery, and look at a career revival, unlike we have seen in, I mean,

you know, for going. Let's be real here. Gordon was not nearly his injury front of his trailer parsons. Not even close. I'm saying going into that season, Kevin, I'm telling you that Eric Gordon played a lot less games than Parsons. You forget. Everybody forgets. Listen to this.

Before Houston, 45 games, New Orleans. 60 games, New Orleans. 64 games. 42 games. Nine games. 56 games. I mean, he was missing 20-something games per year, at least. And a couple of those seasons, he missed half the seasons.

Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, but he didn't have micro-fractic. surgery. Say what? Like Parsons. Gordon had to go to friggin' Germany too. Yeah, I know.

I'm not saying Gordon's problems weren't noteworthy, but Parsons, pretty extreme. Pretty extreme. There's no doubt. And I hope it works for Parsons. And who knows? I'm just saying.

Get back to what he was with, you know, Houston and Dallas. He was a really fun player to watch. I will tell you this. Just being there last night, he looked better than he has ever looked in a Grizzly uniform, not even close. For what it's worth,

all the things are saying about Parsons, about a player who could go in the eyes of many from the bottom to becoming a contributor, that's where I am with salaries for Mello, Howard, MCW, and the like. At the money value, it's worth it. Yep. Let's take a quick break. Then we're going to come back. We're going to talk through the GM survey real quick, and then we'll get to our quick hitters on the other side after these words.

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free at this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash R-I-N-G-E-R-N-B-A. ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, Kevin, that GM survey that is put together by NBA.com every year came out. And I'm, you know, I'm never all that surprised at who they pick for the certain awards, right? Like, champion is the Warriors and the MVP is LeBron. And start your franchise with was kind of interesting because it was.

Janice, then Anthony Davis, then Durant. Their most underrated acquisition of the offseason was Tyreek Evans. But rookie of the year, pretty overwhelmingly voted for Luca Donchich. And then the best rookie in five years time, Jaron Jackson and Dianne Aiton. I say that because you know what that made me want to do? Go back and find out who they voted. I like the five years time thing, you know, like who's going to be the best in five years? So I went and pulled the old boy. How about this? I just did three years that elapsed five years.

Okay. So 2011, 2012, the overwhelming winner was Kyrie Irving rookie of the year. In five years, they said Kyrie Irving would be the best player. Okay. 2012-13, it was Anthony Davis for both. Very easy. You know who they voted second? Brad Beal.

Wow. Damien Lillard was in all. also receiving votes on that. But here's exactly five years ago, all right? And this is fascinating to say the least. But number one, it's funny to read the biggest acquisition, two years in a row in 12, 13 and 1314, was Dwight Howard both years. The Lakers and Houston.

That's good. It worked out better in Houston than it didn't, L.A., at least, right? At least they won some games the first McHale year. Anyways, they chose 80% for Oladipo to win rookie of the year. He of course did not. He of course did not. The best player in five years. So that would have been now.

They said Oladipo. And it's funny because wouldn't you say for four years, that would have looked crazy? I mean, it still looks crazy. Because of a guy named Yonis Anta Dacompo. He was in others receiving votes. I see that. I would love to know the GM that voted for, for, I know. That's what I was thinking too. I wish I could know who it was that voted for.

You asked a room of all 30 general managers. They're all raised their hand. I was wondering if they. I mean, I guess these were easy years. The Oladipo year's hard. The Kyrie year was easy. He was an overwhelming number one pick. Same with Davis, right? Those guys were both. They had huge star written all over them. That was an easier draft. But, you know, the Oladipo one, he is the perfect example of, wait, you know, what's it going to look like in five years, right? Wouldn't you say? It's all like we talk about it all the time. Opportunity and fit.

We've talked about him before, right? Like where sometimes it's situation, it's opportunity. So many little factors obviously change his body as well. That was a massive part of it entering last season. But yeah, it's interesting that he led that vote. I see on the list, Bennett, and only had 10% of the vote. Yeah, Anthony Bennett, yeah. Well, that was a weird year.

Even going, if you remember, going into that night, it had gotten weird because Nerland's Noel had the injury. Like, he was the overwhelming number one pick for so long. And then by draft night, a lot of the mocks had Ben McLemore going number one even. Like, nobody really knew who was going number one. And then the Anthony Bennett thing was just out of nowhere when it happened. I think it was Jeff Goodman, if I'm not mistaken, who like broke that story. He was like the Cavs are going to take Anthony Bennett number one and everybody was like, what the hell?

Like he hadn't been number one in any mock draft the whole time. It's a weird draft. I mean, a crap draft too. There's been great players that have come out of it, but by and large, it's been a disappointment. I was most surprised by this year's GM survey, the biggest rookie steel. Did you see that? The GM said Gilges Alexander. How you like that, Isaac?

I don't really. No? I don't know. I watched him all through Summer League. I watched him. I watched like these workout videos of him. I'm not sold yet. A lot of people in the ring our offices are sold on him.

People love him, but he's not a great ball handler. Yeah, I just don't think he's going to be that good right away. I think he's going to be a project. I wonder why the GMs feel that. You know what I mean? He had an impressive Summer League. I think that's all that is. Because they overreact just like the rest of us.

Yeah, maybe so. But I mean, if that's the case, there were other guys that were drafted lowly, right? that had great summer leagues that you could say. I mean, Wendell Carter's the real steel at seven, in my opinion. Like, steel,

I usually think of like somebody that's going to have a real career. They could end up like that. A non- lottery pick, like that type of guy. That Kita Bates Jop, you know, the kid from Ohio State. KPD,

shout out to one shining podcasts. Yeah, something like that, like a guy like that, right? That it's like you had a precipitous fall and we're going to look back and it seems goofy.

By the way, Isaac, did you get a tattoo of our, podcast or no, you just don't have, you don't have the same level of, you don't, you don't have the same level of commitment as nephew guy. For reference, for people who are like, what are you guys talking about? The producer of One Shining Podcast with Titus and Tate, Kyle, got a One Shining Podcast tattoo. First, Ringer tattoo that we know of at least.

And Isaac, you're up next. Why is it me? Why do I have to be up next? Why can't it be Jim or I can't it be Kaya? Do you have any tattoos, Isaac? I do not have any tattoos. I don't either. How about you, Chris?

I don't have any tattoos. Really, none of us have tattoos. That's surprising. They're not one of us too. Yeah, I was always scared in needles. And then I got old. And so I was like, yeah. You know, when I was a, when I was, this is really dumb.

When I was a baby, I never used to cry getting blood drawn or anything. Because you're a vampire. Because you're a freaking vampire. I've never been scared. Like the nurses always are like, oh, you don't cry. It's great. So I've never been scared of needles. That's not why I don't have a tattoo.

Where is this show going? I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't. All right. Let's get to these quick hitters. quick. All right. I've got a quick getters. The Kobe Giff with Matt Barnes.

All right. Giff? Now you can choose from these three. My whole life is a lie. Well, your reaction to this. Finding out that that GIF that we've been misled our whole lives, don't you do the gift thing to me.

Surprises me that you're a Jif guy. I'm a Jif guy. You're damn right. In fact, I'm going to get it tattooed. Your reaction. My whole life is a lie. Well, I'll be damned or who cares?

Which most represents your reaction? Mostly who cares? And I just sort of explain why it's A, because who cares and B, Kobe's face was still pretty close to the ball. You're like, you and I would probably flinch at that. I think most people probably still would. All right. Jimmy Butler, is he on a different team by opening night? I hope so.

Let's get the saga over with. I'd say, I would, like in terms of a serious reporting answer, I would say yes. just seems like right now things are in a standstill from I've heard from a couple of the executives I've talked to and people around the league is that seems like Minnesota is just kind of holding out for more. I would still bet on Miami getting him, but we'll see how that pans out. Do you buy the theory that Tibbs is trying to get fired? No. That he is doing this like almost in defiance, right? Because that story was so strange about how like some people are calling the owner and some people are calling, you know, Layden and Tibbs and

they're getting different answers. It's like, what is going on? It's bizarre. Organizational dysfunction happens across sports, across industries, and that is happening. Like, that's happening, but I don't at all buy that Tibbs is trying to get fired from his job. No. You don't. No, I don't. All right.

You know what this is a little reminiscent of, and it won't probably string out as long, is the Kauai stuff. You remember it was all the reporting, everything's hot, Kauai going to be traded, Kauai wants a trade, same way that Jimmy Butler wants a trade. And then it all kind of dies down and then out of nowhere the trade happens, right? It's kind of like when all the stuff's going on and then just let it die down a little bit. And then a couple weeks later, the deal finally gets done because you're not getting the best offers at that point, right? When all the news is breaking and it's all everybody is talking about. And so it is a little reminiscent of that with the Kauai stuff.

And we would sit there and go, hey, what the hell happened to all that Kauai stuff? and then out of nowhere, bam, the trade took place. That's kind of what's happening, right? Yeah, it is, it is, it is. And we're going to wake up one day and Jimmy Butler got traded. Last thing, you're going to love this. Sporting News had a very interesting article I read yesterday about the most underrated player in the NBA. The author was Micah Adams, right?

Micah. He mentioned in the article, he said, if you ask people who the best shooters in the NBA are, they would say, more than likely, you know, Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, you know, Durant, the ringer's own JJ Reddick, Kyle Corver. But the only player to shoot at least 44% from three the last two seasons is one Joe Engels. Yeah. How about that? Joe Ingalls.

And then he goes up, he puts his numbers up against Curry's on the shooting threes. And then he had some really crazy stats in there. How about this? Joe Ingalls passes more out of drives than any of. other player in the league. And he looks like an NBA player. And then he even brings up defense, specifically how he handled Paul George in the playoffs. Yeah.

And like brings up his real plus minus numbers. So it's kind of interesting to see this whole here's the most underrated player in the NBA. And then I would alert people and especially jazz fans. If he didn't see that article, check it out. Super interesting. Dude, Engel's numbers are crazy impressive. Seriously. I would not have guessed that.

He's the only player in the NBA to shoot over 44% from three. I don't know what guess he would have been, but I bet I wouldn't have gotten it within 10. Seriously. I mean, I knew he's good at shooting threes, but that's lethal. Lethal. Engels is a really good player. He is.

He's two-way player. His playmaking for his position is quite good. And as Mike Adams mentioned in that article, shooting is outstanding. Obviously, he can't shoot off screens like Clay Thompson can or JJ Redick can. But that dude can stroke through. threes and you know no there was so stat in there let me see if i could pull it up where he no defender within six feet right so just you're shooting an open three angles was 48 percent from three in that

situation curry was 48 percent oof i mean lethal and the point he was making which is really good was when somebody throws it out to step curry open you just go oh shit if you're rooting against them right like that's buried but the same is true of ingles if they throw it out to him open, you should have the same reaction because this dude hits at a crazy clip. And it's not just last season either. It's not just that he had one super hot shooting season,

right, on like 200 shots or whatever. He's been a knockdown shooter for last three years in the NBA. Joe Ingalls is a good player and he looks like an NBA player too. Oh, how dare you? He does. Again, the patient, Chris Vernon, I ain't going for it. You're trying to bait me.

You're trying. He looks like an NBA player. Hey, let me do. do the Kevin thing. That's, wow. That's me being detested. Sounds like I'm sleeping or something.

That's how it comes through in my years. You're so exasperated with whatever I've said. And now at the very end of this podcast, you're treating me like a fish and you've dropped the worm. You've dropped the worm in to catch me on this argument about Joe Ingalls and his appearance. I'm not taking the bait. I was wondering where that analogy was going. You're treating me like a fish.

I was like, how would I treat a fish? I don't know. I don't know you anymore. Mr. I'm not scared of needles. I'm not scared of needles. Sound like you had practiced that line before. What are you talking about? I'll get a tattoo.

I don't care. Yeah, I'm tough. I'm not going to cry if I get a tattoo. I'm horridor, man. Bro, you really, all right, I'm not. I don't want to get a tattoo. get to do this too much. But by the way, your statement, your claim that you did not cry as a baby when you got poked with the needle. I never did. I was going to just let it go completely. That is

insanity. There is not a baby that didn't cry unless you're subhuman. No. I didn't cry when I was born either. I was a C-section baby. Oh, for God's sake. I didn't cry when I was born. Dude, this dude. I've become a very emotional person. Kevin O'Connor claiming he'd never friggin, friggin cried as a baby when a needle poked him. I didn't. All right. I want video evidence exactly like I want. Hey, listen, I couldn't even get video evidence of a friggin' fenced at Arco Arena.

All right. So I was in San Francisco, Oakland, whatever. I was in the Bay Area this past weekend for a story to start interviewing some people. And I asked around PR and they're like, you know, chances are there's no footage from March. But besides, they don't, because they don't own Oracle arena, you actually have to contact the people who do own the arena. I think it's A. And that's my next step, but I'm assuming a call or an email about, hey, do you have footage from March 22nd or whatever?

It's probably going to get a no. See you later. Clown. Get out of here. All right. Last thing I'm going to say, and this is very important. Okay. I'm somebody that has had two babies, Kevin.

I have been around many in my life. And I will tell you, there is not a baby on earth that you can poke with a needle that does not cry. I didn't cry. I didn't cry as a baby. I was a well-behaved kid. That's true. I didn't cry. That has nothing to do with behavior.

I mean, I'm just saying it. It has to do with pain. Let me say this, okay? I think maybe last year I went to have blood drawn after a physical. And the nurse, I mean, this was two years ago, not last year. Two years ago, and the nurse said to me, you're not somebody who passes out, right? And I said to her, I was like, why would I pass out from getting blood drawn? Like, I said it.

It's like, stunned. And she's like, you'd be surprised how many men pass out getting blood drawn. This is not surprising at all. You're talking about a man. It's surprising to me. because it's never happened to me. Be around a baby once in your friggin' life.

There's no baby that you can walk up and poke with a needle. There is a difference with babies. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. There's not a baby on earth you can poke with a needle. It's not whatever, Kevin. Your parents have filled you up with

that's not true. Lies. I love how patient Verno lasted for exactly 10 minutes. It really did. I can't take it any more. Isaac, he broke me. It wasn't the Joe Ingalls thing, but I felt like, dude, I can't get done with this show without bringing up the frigging baby needle thing. That's insane. Listen, I've turned out to be a very emotional person who cries at movies, but I don't cry.

I do not cry at needles. All right, dude. Kevin, I love this podcast. I can't wait to talk to you next week. Me too. I'm looking forward to it, Chris. Everybody out there, please, please, please. It really helps us if you give us a rating and review on iTunes. So head over to the NBA show and give us a rating and review on iTunes. And we will talk to you next week.