The Ringer NBA Show - The New-New Sixers Look Good-Good | Heat Check (Ep. 384)

Episode Date: February 11, 2019

The anticlimactic nonresolution of the Anthony Davis saga leaves the Western Conference at the mercy of the Golden State Warriors (3:03), while the reloaded Philadelphia 76ers look to rise atop the Eastern Conference elite (25:33). Host: Chris Ryan Guests: Justin Verrier, Michael Levin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of Heat Check is brought to you by Belvedere, produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries. Belvedere vodka is the world's finest all-natural vodka. Part of a 600-year Polish vodka-making tradition, Belvedere is made with non-GMO Polish rye, pure water, and no additives. Recognized for quality, Belvedere was named the ISC World Vodka producer of the year in 2015, 16, and 17. So why don't you enjoy a delicious cocktail with Belvedere? vodka today and remember to always drink responsibly. Today's heat check is also brought to you by Hotel Tonight, the big homies. Hotel Tonight makes it easy to book awesome hotels at amazing rates.

They are like a matchmaker between top-rated hotels with unsold rooms and people who want to book those rooms. And Hotel Tonight is not just for last-minute bookings. You can book for tonight, tomorrow, and beyond. It's perfect for planners, procrastinators, and everyone in between. Find sweet deals at cool hotels. that you actually want to stay at, go to Hotel Tonight.com or download the app now. Welcome to NBA Heat Check. I am not John Gonzalez. I am Chris Ryan, and I am here with my boy

Isaac Lee. Gons has abandoned us, Isaac. Oh my God. He's abandoned his child. Oh, man. And what a time to leave. Trade deadline was last week. All-Star is this week. The NBA is an upheaval. We had a really interesting weekend of basketball. Shout out to the Lakers for giving up like 400. points in three games. We're going to get to the Western Conference with Justin Verrier in just a few seconds. And then Mike Levin from the Wrights to Ricky Sanchez podcast joining me to talk about the Sixers

and the Eastern Conference in the second half of this show. Really quickly, just want to tell you about some of my favorite things on the ringer this week. Me and Justin Verrier had what we're calling a series of pieces that are called rational conversations. And we did a bunch about the trade deadline last week and the week before. Now we did

one about what the NBA looks like in the aftermath of the trade deadline, because there There's so much upheaval. There was so much change. So we talked about that. We talked about the Sixers, the Celtics, the Lakers, the Thunder, a bunch of teams in there. You can also check out a bunch of really, really cool pieces on the site this week. My favorite is from Lindsay's Olaz.

She wrote about one of my favorite musicians, Alex Chilton. He was in the band Big Star. He's a hugely influential artist throughout the last few decades. So please read Lindsay's piece. Also, tons of true detective stuff, stuff about the award season. Bafters this weekend. Oscars coming up. Tons of stuff to read.

Please check out The Ringer. Let's get into my conversation with Justin Varyer about the Western Conference. All right, now I'm joined by my man, Justin Varyer. Justin is the editor of a lot of our NBA coverage over at the Ringer. Obviously, you can hear him on group chat every week. He's the new host of Group Chat.

Yeah. How does that feel? Heavy as the head, am I right? Yeah. And we're going to talk a little bit about the Western Conference. Specifically, let's get started with the Pelicans, because today Michael McCann over at Sports Illustrated, wrote a piece about how the NBA has been holding a $100,000 per game fine over the head of the Pelicans

if they were to hold Anthony Davis out of games in the interest of tanking, which I find hilarious because that means the NBA hasn't been watching five or six teams this season, who have been actively tanking and in some cases wanting to tank but just are unfortunately better than they intended to be. So this story continues to go on. What are your like sort of first impressions of what's going on here. Because you spent a lot of time in New Orleans. You spent a lot of time covering the team. How would you describe what's going on right now?

A mess. I don't know if you watched the game on Friday, but it was pretty much the crowd trying to figure out how to react in real time. And obviously, Jeff Van Gundy went on this very long-winded rant that extended, I would say to halftime until someone probably got in his ears like, let's settle down. He's like taking shots at them not having beat riders and the beat riders. and the beat writers were like standing up on Twitter and being like, I'm here, man.

I'm just up in O'Meer's block party just watching this game. So it's just... Was there like a charge call that Jeff Bango did get distracted about and he ranted about that for a while? Well, he did go at Gail Benson too and then they kept showing like shots of her almost like looking distressed in the crowd

and then there were shots of Del Dems with like an XXL sized like soda cup you should look like with no emotion. Was it a hurricane or was it a... No, but it looked more like a smoothie cup, but I think it was filled with some sort of soda product. Anyway, I don't think anybody knows how to react here because I think there are just so many competing agendas, and then you have the league kind of coming in and kind of forcing their hand in a certain direction. Right. There's a lot of stuff I think we still don't know.

I don't know if we know whether or not this is the beginning of the league's involvement with this situation, or the league has been involved in this situation for a couple of weeks. Sure. there was some suggestion when, I think the Pelicans put out a statement regarding this, but it was basically like, we're happy that this all kind of coheres around league tampering rules. Right, the subtext of it all was we probably wouldn't want to do this if the league didn't kind of ask us to do this. Sure. And then on the other hand, you've got Magic Johnson telling the press yesterday at the Sixers game that he didn't feel like the Pelicans engaged in good faith in negotiations.

Which seems hard to argue at this point because Brian Winhor said this last week on the jump, and then there's been some reporting to this effect that they were basically stringing them along the whole time. Exposing them. Basically getting them to offer up the entire team except for LeBron, more or less, kind of shake those guys as confidence and shake what they kind of think is going to happen with the rest of their careers. Which if that was like Del Demp's only goal in all of this and he thought like, man, I might get fired anyway, and might as well just troll the hell out of Magic Johnson, more power to him. Del Demp should probably run someone's presidential campaign.

Right. You know, Del Demp's and Klobuchar. But I guess my question is like, should the Pelicans be able to do whatever they want? Bill is kind of going on an interesting run here on Twitter as we record this, where he sort of seems to be saying like, what the hell is AD doing? And also pointing at like the kind of shredded social contract of the league, there's certain things that you kind of have to like believe. even to be an NBA basketball team. And one of the things Bill's pointing out is that if your star player with a year and a half left on his contract can just call a Carmelo and demand a trade, then really what are we doing here?

Yeah, I think he has a really good point that there's this great area that the league tried to prevent star player movement with their previous CBA negotiations. But the players have found this sort of in between where they don't have to adhere to any rules. And it's kind of, we're getting to the point where guys. won't even stay on good teams. I mean, Bill's best point, I think, is just like, look at Kyrie. He went to the Celtics, and all of a sudden he's already kind of griping and potentially thinking like he wants his way out.

Right. Well, essentially, I guess the question really is then, should the Pelicans be able to do whatever they want here? If they're like, what we want to do is tank, have a shot at Zion, and then have that high first round draft pick and whatever we get in return for Anthony Davis in July, and have that be the new nucleus of this team. so that we're not flat-footed and decimated in July when we have to trade him

because he's basically like, this can't go on any longer. Yeah. I think the league's issue is they've kind of enforced this rule willy-nilly, like when it best suits them. Yes. When a bunch of star players weren't playing in national TV games. Right.

LeBron just didn't play against Golden State a couple of days ago. Now, granted, he's coming back from a groin injury, and if you watched him on Sunday, you'd think he maybe still has one. But it does seem like the application of the rest rule seems to be pretty case by case. Right, and we were doing this, like, every day at a certain point, like two years ago, or whenever that was.

I think Mark Stein had a very good point this morning, basically saying, where were these rules and where was this discussion when Carmel Anthony was away from the rockets for what? Months? Yeah. I didn't even know he was still on the roster by the time they inevitably traded him. I thought he had already been waived. So it's weird to do that with Mello and not do that with AD.

So ultimately, I do think it trickles back down to how the league is going to, to enforce the rules and what rules are going to enforce. Right. I think also it's the presence of an agent. So on Front Street with this one. Because ultimately, I don't know that there's a ton of difference between what happened with Anthony Davis and Mike Conley. You know what I mean?

Like Mike Connolly thought he was going to. Right. And was trying to dictate where he went. Because by all accounts, there was a deal in play with Utah for Rubio and Favors. And Mike Connolly was like, I don't want to go to Utah. I want to go to the Eastern Conference. which was, I thought, pretty interesting that Mike Connolly would rather go to Indiana

or wherever else than Utah. Whereas with Utah, I think he's on a top four Western Conference team. Yeah, I guess he just wants that All-Star bid eventually and he was setting himself up for next year. Maybe, yeah. But now Mike Connolly is back on a very bad Memphis team. And just like the same way, AD is back on a relatively bad New Orleans team. Yeah.

It's just that Rich Paul was not calling the shots in the Mike Conley situation. It's a great point. And I guess it goes back to the same reason why certain NBA players were catching flack for not playing in games and taking rest days because they were more high profile. Yeah. This was the dominant story on all websites, including our own, for the past two weeks. And if I don't feel bad about it for AD, I guess it's because he's kind of he got what he asked for. Yes. Yeah.

Be careful what you wish for or whatever. You want to be a big star now like everybody talks about you. Right. And now you're going to, they're going to put the rules in place for you. Yeah. Okay. So let's talk a little bit more broadly about the Western Congress. Whereas the Eastern Conference, you have the Sixers completely remake their team.

You had Toronto adding Mark Casal, you had Milwaukee adding Nicole and Miritich, Indiana got in on the buyout market and got Wesley Matthews. Pretty much like most of the teams did a little something. Most of the teams at the top of the conference, the exception of Boston. The Western Conference pretty much chilled out. And we were talking about this in our rational conversation post that's up on the site now. But do you think that that's essentially like the Western conferences got a little bit more of a front row seat for what the Warriors are doing right now? and it's like, why spend any bullets if you don't have to? Yeah, I'm sure that was the big part of it.

I also wonder if a lot of these teams just did their work way earlier. And to the point where a lot of them kind of cap themselves out, we've been talking about the trailblazers for so long. Like, maybe they can make a move, but it would essentially require them to destruct everything that they've kind of built over the past couple of years. So you see them nipping on the fringes with a guy like Rodney Hood, which I think is a nice addition. If you're not going to go big, that's a guy you could buy low on

and maybe just bring them into your system, and all of a sudden he's an upgrade on. Jake Lehman, the god, who's catching lob dunk every week now. But you look at the nuggets, they had to trade picks in the offseason just to get under the luxury tax because they wanted to bring back Will Barton. You look at the thunder, they're so far into the luxury tax that like losing just any player is going to cost them. Like if they just wanted to wave a player, it's going to cost them like five times as much.

Sure. Yeah. I mean, the Rockets, we know their issues with the luxury tax and their owner. So you have a lot of teams that have been already built. Yeah. And so I said this in the post today. It's almost like the West is the five. Timers Club. They're just like, we know them, we love them, but they're kind of the same team

that they've always been, and it works. So, like, there really isn't much wiggle room in between there. Yeah, I mean, I have Michael Levin coming on in the second half of what the listeners will hear on the podcast, but I've already spoken with him. And we were talking a little bit about how in the Eastern Conference, the absence of LeBron seems to be giving everybody like this kind of fever that they're going to go for the finals because it's like going to the finals for any of the top four or five teams in the Eastern Conference would be an amazing accomplishment for that franchise because LeBron

has blocked out the sun for the better part of a decade. In the Western Conference, A, you've got the financial restrictions that you're talking about, and B, maybe there's like, look, like we're going to kind of give our best shot with what we've got,

but there's no magic key here to open this door. It's that Warriors team is what it is until the end of the year. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if they're, like, better than they've ever been, but there's something more, like, complete about what they're doing.

there's a certain expertise or almost like comfortability that they just know that they can mow teams down just by showing up every day. Yeah. And I do wonder how much of effect that that brings, but the Lakers were the inflection point. Like they're the team that can go one way or another. And the fact that they didn't, it kind of speaks to where everything is. How many teams in the West are just like even have the assets to swing something of no, I guess? Yeah, I mean, I don't know if any, obviously if Utah was in the market from Mike Conley

and obviously, you know, Houston's never satisfied. Daryl's never going to just sit on his hands. But I do wonder whether or not, I mean, you can learn a lesson from what happened to the Lakers in terms of like if you get too heavily involved in this shit, like some really bad ripple effects can hit your team. And that team, look, I know West Coast traveling to the East Coast, they've been on a trip, like they've played indie Boston Philly.

It's not an easy run of games and it's not in easy gyms. And lots of people come out for the Lakers to give them the middle finger. And lots of people come out for the Lakers to give them the middle finger. And lots of people about to cheer for the Lakers. But they just looked so disinterested yesterday. Like, if Kuzma hadn't gone off, I think that might have been like a 40-point loss. Yeah.

I think they looked really good in that Boston win. I thought it was a nice, like, kind of pick me up after what happened at the deadline. Right. Because they did kind of fall flat in their faces there. Yes. I think it was pretty telling. If anything, it almost was like a reminder of the issues that they were trying to get out of at the deadline. Like what?

Just, well, for instance, the fact that there were. reliant on a young core that really hasn't put it together. The fact that they lose a game when Kuzma is going off that way is pretty damning. Brandon Ingram's still a guy where you see in flashes. He was getting to the rim and getting to the free throw line a lot. I think he had the most free throws, most Lakers in that game. But still, I just like, I watch him and he's just, he's kind of just floating around, doesn't really know where to go.

He needs, he basically needs Kyle Kuzma's sense of self-confidence. Like Brandon Ingram with Kuzma's heat check sensibility, is an all-star, probably. But Brandon Ingram being like, I'm just going to kind of float around out here on the wing and I hope somebody passes me the ball and maybe I'm just going to pass out of this because I don't like the match-up.

It's like, I don't know, dude. Like, he's almost weirdly in that Markell zone. I just mean in terms of like his value is very erratic right now because like his value at the beginning of the season may have been the highest it's ever going to be. Right. Before the season started.

Right. And like I think with Ingram, like I think you want to take advantage of his plus ball handling skills for his size. And so they moved Rondo to the second unit, which opened up some space for him. But then all of a sudden, you're kind of doubling up of Rondo and Lance Stevenson in that second unit.

We're at Occam's Razor with this team where it's like they tried to rethink how to play basketball around LeBron, and it just still isn't working where all these ball handlers don't give them enough shooting. So especially against a team like the Sixers, who are big and can pass

and can shoot and do everything really well, you have a team with the Sixers that doesn't have the size, and so Embed is just like flossing with Javelle McKee on every possession, and they don't have the shooting to make up for it. So they're playing outside in without any of the advantages of playing outside in.

Yeah, they also have too many negative defenders on the floor at the same time, and I put LeBron in that group. I mean, LeBron can sag off of Ben Simmons as like a weird diss if he wants to, but that still gives Ben Simmons like an extra five feet to get into the lane and create from there, which he does.

So I thought that for his... bad of a game Simmons had yesterday. He made a lot of things happen because he had complete, like, just an open runway to go running into the lane to then pass out of. Right, and he has those shooters to kick out to now where you have Tobias and JJ probably

like the top two shooters at their position at this point. And I think it's particularly interesting when you're playing against a LeBron team when he's driving to the line, who's he kicking out to? Right. Like now they have Reggie Bullock and Mike Muscala,

but if Reggie Bullock and Mike Mascala are your answers? That's like a bad version of the old Sixers. Right, exactly. Literally to the point where Mike Muscala is coming to LA via Philly through the Clippers. Okay, so the Lakers, we've been through this so many times of LeBron

that I don't get into the game of counting them out. I know that, like, I think Jalen Rose said like he didn't think they were going to win, they were going to get into the playoffs this year. I have said around the office at least that I don't think LeBron will win another finals. She's looking like a pretty good take. I think it's...

You bought low on that one. This one just feels a little different to me because I think that there have just been noises coming out from LeBron and LeBron's camp about L.A. not necessarily being entirely about the single-minded pursuit of a championship. Like I think he said, like, this is all icing on the cake for me. You know, whatever happens. But the sort of self-imposed exile that he's doing now, the sitting away from guys on

the bench, the yelling at the kids, and you're just kind of waiting for it to break. You're waiting for the Instagram post. You're waiting for the sub-tweet of Luke, something coming soon. or they turn it around and they win 15 out of the last 20 and they get into the playoffs and they scare the shit out of somebody. What do you think is some more likely scenario? Probably the latter. I think we could look back on this game

and it would only be that the Lakers were on a East Coast road trip where LeBron was playing the second time in three days against a really good Sixers team that all of a sudden may look like the second best team in the league. And we'll just say that that was just the outlier. I think like we obviously have to counter against recency bias, but I think it's particularly important here where Reggie Bullock comes off the street and is basically starting

and he looked completely shook. And I don't know if there's this situation, having played with the clippers and sorry Isaac, but not necessarily being in a lot of like high profile games. But he was like forcing a lot of things. Yeah. And I do think if you give LeBron some shooting and you give him some competence on the wings

and just like throughout the roster, I think it's going to work out fine. Like who are their biggest? competition right now. It's the clippers and the Kings. Right. And the clippers, although they won't... Although the Mavericks are kind of frisky. Yeah. If only because of Lucca Donchis, but I don't think Maxie Kleber is like... I don't either. I'm sure there's

somebody who's going to fall away, but I do wonder whether or not, like... I just don't think you can wait as long as you can in the Eastern Conference to get good. And this team without Lonzo is among the worst defensive teams in the league. And they're just going to get torched by these clubs going out. I mean, they're giving... They give up 400 some points in three games. That's It's insane.

Yeah. But again, like, if LeBron's there and you have the shooting to make up for it now, I do wonder if that's going to be just like enough. Yeah. Well, the other thing is, like, how healthy is LeBron? I think you brought up a good point, like, about the groin injury. Like, that's not something that, as far as I know, that just, like, kind of is done with. Right.

And if he's like, I got to get back out there because otherwise we're going to be five games out of the playoffs and we're not going to be able to pull it back, that's fine. But it's clearly, like, not 100% LeBron, but then you start to get into the question of like, well, is it not 100% LeBron emotionally, or is it not 100% LeBron physically, or is it a combination of both? Because I think you can tell the difference between LeBron when he's like feeling it and LeBron when he's like, this sucks. I'm not quitting on this team, but I'm basically in first gear for the most of the game.

Right. And then who do they turn to at that point? Who do we turn to in the Western Conference if we're looking for a competitor for Golden State? Because I think you and I kind of settled on the thunder, but maybe you and I talk too much. No, I agree. If only by default, but there's something to them where they just kind of, they know who they are. Yeah. They just throw out this like, just like a bunch of young, like, just athletic guys and they just kind of just like overwhelm you.

Yes. They all kind of play the same. And it's almost as if like, like, despite the fact that Russell Westbrook is shooting just like he's, I don't know, J.R. Smith at this point. The bad J.R. Smith, not the good version. It's just like he almost has fed into this image of himself as one of like the elite version. of like a Terrence Ferguson where he's just going to bounce around and grab rebounds and run the floor

and pass and get involved and like that's still a really good player. I'm used in like the article that we wrote like maybe this is the rust that like we should have always had. They just gave him way too many opportunities. Well maybe the shooting has kind of humbled him a little bit. I mean like it's not like he still will shoot them out of a game

easily and I think that the real real, real test we won't even see until playoffs when it's like who's taking the last shot. Is it Paul George who's probably? a top three MVP candidate right now, or is it Russell who just thinks like they're going to put a statue of me outside of this place? Right, and that's an unknowable

thing with them. But otherwise, if you're just looking at them on paper and just like some of the results, like, it just all makes a certain sense. And the way that the Sixers do now, it's just like the way that they play off of each other, Russ deferring to George. And if we really want to make the comparison to like when the thunder

were at their best, it was Russ, a dominant scoring wing, and a guy who could play, a combo guard off the bench where he could play point guard, run the offense, or he could play next to Russ. And now, Schroeder, Durant, and Russ isn't necessarily hardened Durant and Russ. Schroeder George and Russ is, yeah. Yeah. I was like, is Kev back?

He might be. Yeah. We'll see next summer. But, like, they have the chalk outline of what made that team very good. Absolutely. And, like, some of these guys are just basically kind of like Andre Robeson, like, Gallum's, essentially, where there's just, like, long athletic defenders. And just like, as long as they have, the big thing with the thunder has always been, can you survive without your best players on the floor?

Especially the Russ year when he won MVP, but then even last year, it's like what happens when Russ or Paul steps off the floor? And they usually get destroyed. But this year, I feel like they can stay in games. Yeah. And I think we talk about like there's no mere mortal that can like really take down the warriors. Well, what about like the emotional side of it? What about Durant having in the Western Conference finals having to go and win two or three games in Oklahoma City?

I really do think that after this weird season, NBA fans truly do deserve Thunder Warriors at some point in the playoffs and a Celtic Sixers series. It would be nice. All right. We're going to talk more about the Sixers and the Eastern Conference with Mike Levin coming up after this break. Before we go to our break, though, let's talk about the NBA watch of the night. And there's only one place to go, man. It's the Battle of Texas. It's Mavericks Rockets on NBA TV

at 5 p.m. Pacific time. We roll West Coast style here. I cannot wait to watch Luca and Hardin tonight. I feel like it's like Hardin's looper is coming to get him. Slovenian Hardin. It's been pretty exciting watching Luca

just go full hero ball the last couple of days. Yeah, if there's any kind of bad takeaway from the Christop's trade, it's just that it kind of relegated Luca to obscurity. Yeah. So now he's playing in like the sea level game of the night in Portland to the point where I didn't even know he was playing it today.

But, like, this is the type of stage that he should have. There was an amazing moment yesterday when most of our Slack was watching the once-in-future King, Philadelphia 76ers, play against the Los Angeles Lakers on national television on ABC. And Gallagher was just on NBA Slack just being like, wow, Maxi, wow. Like, you know, like, just doing all these Dallas slacks. Stay huge, Jason Gallagher. Our NBA watch of the night is Dallas versus Rockets.

You can see that on NBA TV. 5 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m. Eastern. And remember if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com or through your local cable or satellite provider. Today's episode of Heat Check is brought to you by ADT. Real Protection. When it comes to something as important as your family's safety, you deserve real protection from ADT. Real protection means the nation's number one smart home security provider is standing by and there for you when you need them. Real protection means having a safe and smart home with everything from video doorbells, surveillance cameras, smart locks, lights, carbon monoxide, and smoke detectors in a system

that's custom designed to fit your lifestyle. And setting up custom automations to do things like lock the doors and set the thermostat when you leave. Real protection means staying safe on the go-the-go in the car or when your kids are at school with the ADT Go app and the SOS button. Real protection means 18,000 employees safeguarding you. Real protection means direct connections with first responders. No matter how you define safety for you, your family, or your business. ADT is there. ADT, real protection.

Visit ADT.com slash podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. And now my buddy, Mike Levin, to talk Sixers in Eastern Conference. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. Now I am joined by my buddy, accomplished writer for television, co-host of one of my favorite podcasts of all time, believe it or not. The Wrights to Ricky Sanchez. I'm joined by Mike Levin.

What's up, Mike? Hey, Chris. Big times. Big day. Okay, so I don't want to make this like Mike and Chris just roll around the floor mud wrestling over how great the Sixers are right now. Are you sure? I kind of do want to do that.

What I really want to do is ask you at first here. I was trying to figure this out this morning. Can you even think of another professional sports team that has gone through so many different iterations of itself in one season? Oh, man. No. I mean, it almost felt to the point where the regular season didn't matter. And the sixers were kind of acting like that.

They're like, oh, yeah, the team we have, it's kind of fake. It's like pretend. Right. This isn't the team that we're going to be before the playoffs. And I kind of dismissed that a little bit. And then they're, I mean, they're a totally different team. They have very few of the same players that they had going into the season. And I think that is good because they clearly upgraded it.

Yeah. I mean, so there was the Robert Covington, Dario Sarge, basically the retread of last season. Then they trade Robert Covington and Dario Sarge for Jimmy Butler. And then you have the Jimmy Butler is getting acclimated with Ben and Jojo.

And Markell is kind of off on the periphery and you've got that version of the team that really relied heavily on Corey Brewer, apparently. And then in the blink of an eye, Markel's gone. The entire bench is gone. And in comes Tobias Harris, Bobon, Mike Scott, James Ennis,

and Jonathan Simmons, who we saw a little bit of yesterday against the Lakers. So you have essentially a completely new team than you did 10 days ago. And you're right, there were noises coming out of the Sixers. I think Brett talked about it. I think Jojo and Ben talked about it where it was like, it's really more important than we're clicking in the playoffs, which I appreciated, but I also was like,

you guys aren't the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. Like maybe don't overrate your ability to flip a switch. But like, maybe this team can flip a switch. You've said that before on Ricky. Yeah, I've never encountered a 16th or the only flip that was switched was like the Doug Collins switch where it's like, okay, we're going to try really hard now.

We're going to love each other extra a lot now. Yeah, but I think it's a clear upgrade in terms of like, you know, you saw in the Celtics series last playoffs was there were just multiple guys that the Celtics could exploit defensively. And we just couldn't match up with their big bodies like Tatum and Brown and Marcus Morris even

and Marcus Martin. There was just too many guys. And the Sixers now have just like an influx of switchable wings that aren't like, I mean, nobody on defense is as good as Covington still, but just the sheer volume of like usable bodies makes this team so much better around now Embed Simmons, Butler, and Tobias Harris. Yeah, watching the Lakers game yesterday, my big takeaway was we are fucking enormous. Yeah.

It's like kind of pronounced, you know, when you kind of watch, you're watching and Tobias, is out there. He's not even that what I would call a particularly keyed in defender, but just did like the sheer size of that team made like Cusma and KCP seem like college kids. Yeah, I mean, it's so bizarre.

I remember watching like the process years, obviously we talked about it all the time, but like the process years and it was like, Nerlans is at center and like rookie Jeremy Grant and like Hollis and these just skinny guys that just don't have, this just aren't NBA bodies yet. And watching them being like, I think one day these guys are going to be good or this team is going to make it.

And then push past to now and it's like, oh, there's so much bigger. I mean, it's just such a stark difference that we are now the big team. We are now the people that bully them around. That's why we beat the Warriors was because we were just bigger than them and just dominated the offensive class. It's really, I mean, six years basketball, man, process stuff. Varyer and I did this back and forth, this rational conversation about the league after the trade deadline.

And he mentioned that he felt like the Tobias trade. and Tobias's presence in the starting lineup had basically Simmons-proofed the starting lineup because now there actually is someone for either he can drive and kick or Joel can throw out of a double team and then Embed essentially said that after the game. He was like, it got kind of annoying to pass out of double teams and have the guy missed the shot.

Now he's got a 43% shooter who not only does he have a 43% shooter, Tobias Harris is going to be getting more open looks than he's probably had in two years. Yeah, I mean, he's the fourth, maybe fifth option offensively. And he could have been an all-star in the West. So I just think that starting lineup is basically unguardable. And then you have, I think they do miss like a shamit type. And I think losing out on Wayne Ellington and buyouts hurt them a little bit,

just in case, you know, if Reddit goes down like this team is precariously short on shooters. It's the Corkmont show. Yeah. Exactly. But I do think that once the playoffs comes around, it's going to be that. starting lineup for 35 minutes a night, and then just having bodies like Mike Scott and John Simmons and James Ennis to come in and just spell guys for a little bit. It's tough to imagine this team losing ever again. Yeah, and so I wanted to talk a little bit about the Eastern Conference more generally, because one of the things I was looking at was, you know,

how Indy has not had their Ola Depot collapse. So they're still there. Boston's obviously in fifth and not enjoying themselves. And Toronto and Milwaukee, keep kind of relentlessly winning and Toronto out, obviously added Mark Gassal at the trade deadline, and Milwaukee added Nicole Amritic. The seating stuff is going to get really interesting. Like, I don't think anybody's going to be able to take their foot off the gas

down this stretch run. And Indiana is a weird one because they could just sort of like regular season their way to like a surprise foreseed, especially if Boston keeps, you know, imploding, which is tough to watch as a Sixers fan, just really upsetting. It's tough because I just love competition and I just want everybody to be at their best. And, you know, just like as a guy who's cheered for a team that's had a lot of internal chemistry issues, you hate to see it.

You hate to see it. I'm sure the ringer offices are really dower these days. We're being super respectful. I think you have to be in their time of morning. I think that it's going to be a dog fight the rest of the season. The Sixers probably don't have enough juice because it's going to be, you know, they obviously won two great games in a row against tough opponents, but there's going to be some adjustment period where you could already. tell, but the new Sixers still don't know where to be. They're still, like, kind of clunky offensively a little bit, like, bumping into each other.

And so I don't think that they're going to make a run at the one or the two seats. So I think they'll probably fall into the three. My biggest concern is, I would love for someone to take Toronto out for us. And so I don't want Toronto in the second round. Milwaukee's very good, obviously. Like, all these teams are very good. But I just think that the Sixers match up better with Milwaukee than they do with Toronto. Kauai just terrifies me.

I think Janice and shooters just feels like an easier defensive assignment for the guys of six or stuff. Yeah, I was impressed by Milwaukee's victory over the Mavericks on Friday just because I tuned in to see, I just hadn't seen them in a while, and I was just really impressed by how buttonholzerie they looked, like everybody running to the exact right spot on the break, and the way that their offense is just so perfectly spaced out. It's going to take a couple of months for the Sixers to get there, but you'd prefer to see Milwaukee over Toronto. That's interesting. Yeah, I just, something about Kauai just terrifies me. And Yannis, Mbid seems to be like, I would honestly put it in a Milwaukee Sixers series.

I would honestly put Simmons on Lopez and Mbid on Yannis. I think they're both obviously very good defenders, but you want to keep Mbid close to the basket. And he gets pulled away. I mean, I think Marcus Sol and Serge Baca pull him away from the basket also. So if you can find a way to be like, all right, obviously, Janice is still going to get his. But so much of Yonis's efficiency comes from just bullying guys with his length. and strength, and he wouldn't have that against him beat. So the experience of the Sixers fans since Hinky came aboard in 2013,

and even though we've obviously seen, we're now on the third front office regime since that period. So Hinky, Colangelo, now Elton Brand. Also memorable and normal stuff. Which, like, it's been a really volcanic time. And then dozens of players that you and Spike have documented so lovingly over the years of terms of, like guys who have come in and out of the team, we've essentially settled on these cornerstones of Ben and Joel with these all-star caliber players around them.

But I was wondering whether or not going through three teams in one year and going through all this change over the last couple of years, like how your fandom has changed, like how your relationship to the team has changed, and can you even project out what would happen if, let's say there's like a huge collapse this season, like people start talking about,

about maybe even trading Simmons or something like that, this constant churn of transactional movement that kind of, how does that change your relationship to cheering for a team? Well, I think the hinky era of just 10-day guys coming in and out and it's Darius John Snowdom and it's Adonis Thomas and it's Casper Ware and like those kinds of guys and believing in them immediately upon getting here, be like, oh, this guy is a guy. Yeah. You know, because we got Covington, we got TJ and it's like Hollis and Jakar and even Jeremy. like guys that you sort of dig out either in the second round run drafted and you're during the process

years you convince yourself that this might be a keeper and like this is the kind of guys you take risks on and you take a chance on you give them minutes and see if they can grow and that sort of trained me to now be like ready to shed like when the microcord of Williams trade happened it was like okay he's gone like I'm done with them it's fine I'm ready to move on with lakers pick 100% losing guys and picking up guys so fast in the process era has trained me to like this six or season of having three teams is like it's nothing. It's absolutely nothing. I was born for this in the process era.

And then I think it's also a mark of just the NBA in general. Like things change so fast and guys were out there welcome so fast. A lot of people are talking about like, all right, so we have Embedon Simmons, Simmons in his second year and beating its third. Why are they rushing it? Why are they moving, having an earth to get Jimmy

Butler and trading future picks to get Tobias Harris. What's the rush to move now? And it's like, I think you just look at the NBA and you think like things change so quick. Yeah. And you never know when someone's going to ask for a trade or get injured. Obviously, Embed has the injury history.

Like, why not go right now? Like, there's just no reason that you say, like, wait and be patient. It's a combination of being patient and not morgating the future while still being like, we can contend now and hopefully for the next five years. Also, not for nothing, but we just went through almost a decade of LeBron representing the Eastern Conference in the finals. I mean, like, even getting to the finals would be a huge accomplishment for any one of these teams. Milwaukee, Philly, Toronto, even Boston, like, if any of those teams go to the

finals, they're not going to have a parade, but there's going to be a real sense of accomplishment. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think LeBron said it in a quote earlier this week. He was like, yeah, everybody after the deadline, everybody's, you know, I'm not there in the way to stop them from doing it. So it's like, I think everybody is, is rightfully making a push. Maybe Boston drops to the six or seven seed. That's fine. But if the sixers want to contend, it's not like, oh wait for five years, wait for three years. It's like now. There's win now, win later. You have M. Bied and Simmons.

They're two of the best young players in the game. Like, win always. Yeah, and also I think Elton Brand has shown himself to be savvy enough to understand that the path to the finals this year might actually be clearer than it is next year if Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving go to the Knicks or if God knows what we don't, but we can't even foresee happens. You know, what if Toronto empties it all for Anthony Davis? You know what I mean?

and they go with Kauai and Anthony Davis in Toronto with whatever pieces Messiah assembles around them. It's like anything could happen in the next nine months like after July and through the summer that if you feel like you like you like what you've got and you feel like there's an open road there, you kind of got to take it. Yeah, you got to go for it.

I feel really good about where the Sixers are and that's alarming to me. Watching guys, like watching Tobias Harris, and this happened with Jimmy Baller earlier in the season of watching him and being like, I'm not used to the shots that you take going in. Like, the idea that someone could put the ball

on the deck and, like, shoot on the run and, like, make plays off the dribble is just something that we haven't seen in Philadelphia in so long. So it feels like it's, like, sand going through my fingers where it's like, I don't know how to, like, I can't like wrap my arms around this yet.

Yeah. Like, these guys are all so good and it's just not something I'm used to. Final words I'd like to hear from you are words of advice for any teams that are now currently in the Doug Collins era of their existence.

Oh, man. So I'm looking at the Eastern Conference specifically, and you see teams like Detroit and Charlotte and Miami, and Washington, although Washington, I think, is out of the realm of Doug Collins and into the realm of voodoo. But even teams like Orlando, who seem to be very dedicated to, like,

getting into the playoffs now, even though they're not, like, assembled to do so, when you see any of those teams, is there one that you're like, They're actually pretty, like, they're much closer to getting their shit together than other teams. Is there anyone in there that you think is ripe for a complete tear down and rebuild? And what's your level of sympathy for those clubs? Well, I do have sympathy for all of them.

Having been through the process years and had more arguments about the process than I think anyone in the world. It's crazy that it happened to Philly because you think of people are like, oh, you could never, you can't rebuild in Philly. you hear about with the Knicks that you can't rebuild in New York. And Philly obviously has a strong media market of like angry people. They won't be patient. They won't withstand all the losing and all the time it takes. And then it happened. And with you and me and Spike and all the people that like sort of got what Hinkie was trying

to do, it worked. And he got enough rope to get and beaten Simmons. But I think it's still unlikely that it would have happened at all. And so I feel fortunate that that we got to like benefit from it. Other teams, I think in the smaller markets, I have some of the same problems with their owners, like not having the level of patience and not having the foresight to decide if this is what they're going to do. So I have empathy for a lot of teams that should tear it down and start over and live in the lottery for a little bit and not cut corners. In terms of teams that are close to making that process jump of building with the young guys,

I think you can look at what the kings are doing right now is just like, hey, they've got a bunch of young guys and they look good and are growing together. We'll see if they have enough to actually make noise or just being a playoff team for a number of years, which would be great for Sacramento and that's what they want. But the idea that a team could go from lottery to, okay, we have our guys. Now we're going to seriously contend. You know, I look at Orlando.

Markell got there and I think that's a very processy pickup of, let's try to rehabilitate this guy whose image has been totally tarnished, but was only a first overall pick not too long ago. I think they're at a crossroads with what to do with like Vuzovich. Yeah. I'm like, okay, do we push for that eight seed with Vosovich? Or do we move forward and go full process with the guys around it? And I get wanting to make the playoffs.

But like, if you want to contend, if you want to be serious about doing it, it's something you have to seriously consider. I want to ask you really quickly before you go about Markell, because he's someone that I feel like a weird amount of emotional investment for, considering he only played 33 games for the team. I mean, there are Casper-aware type dudes who played more minutes than he, did. But I think both the promise of having our own Westbrook Hardin, Durant in Philly, and also just how with all of the infrastructure that's around player development, player analysis,

all the background checks people do on players now. And obviously, like, Markell Fultz is not the first and last draft bust or guy who didn't pan out or a guy who has a mysterious injury or guy who was supposed to be something that he didn't turn out to be. but I wonder if you had any like sort of closing or final thoughts on Markell now that he's been traded for essentially what might wind up being like a guy who's here for a cup of coffee

and a couple of like things that convert to second round picks. Yeah, I mean there's been so much action just moving parts around Philly for for so long so Markell just kind of gets added to the heap of like weird things that we've had to deal with Zayers, Sesame Allergy, losing 50 pounds. Yeah. The Calangelo Burner story.

Like there's just so much, it's been just nonstop weird story after weird story. And Markell is just, I just feel a lot of empathy for him. I know that whatever he's got going on with his camp, like people, he's getting the wrong advice for people. So I just feel, but he's like, you know, he's 20 years old. I feel bad for the kid. I loved him in Washington. I really, really loved the package that he presented.

And I did think that he was the absolute perfect, like third cog in a Simmons Embed building for the future in that same way that, you know, Durand, Hardin, Westbrook would be. And yeah, I mean, it's just, it's one of those things where you can feel it turning toward change of scenery, change of scenery, and you don't want it to get there. You want it to be like, no, why does it have to be that? Why can't he just take enough time off and figure it out and be here? But at the end of the day, it was just like they, you know, their own different timelines. The team's too good to really give him the chance to work out his kinks or whatever it is.

and I think for everyone's well-being and mindset that he just had to go somewhere else and take it easy. I think that weirdly the saddest thing for me was that he clearly still had so many supporters in the locker room. So it wasn't like this kid had been ostracized or like everybody was on him because he sucked or something like that. He clearly was like Joel and JJ and Jimmy even who's not like the easiest to please.

Like all obviously had a lot of affection for him. and so it kind of endeared me to him, I think even though I've never met him and really have only seen him play a handful of times, honestly. But, you know, in the end of the day, I hope that just that change of scenery like you're talking about being able to play out in silence, you know, it's going to be hard

because if he does have basically Alfred Payton's first few years of his career, like he's always going to have to live with being the number one pick that the Sixers traded an extra first round pick to get and he's not Jason Tatum. But hopefully he can carve out some kind of NBA career for himself.

Yeah, I mean, he's so talented. Like, he's very good. If he, the rest of his game clearly suffered when he didn't have the jump shot anymore, but he's still good at many other things. And if he can just, like, even if he decides to be our MCW, like, I only take these like little floaters and stuff, but like, sort of buffets it with the rest of his game, then I think he could still be like a decent NBA player. He's just, you know, there's so much that goes into whether the shot is there or not.

And I also worry about him in Orlando. Like, are people going to be nice? Timor, Orlando? Like, I hope he is. I don't even know. I hope his teammates are like pleasant. Like Bubba Watson sitting courtside. I don't know, like, what's going to happen. Mike, thank you so much for joining me. You guys should all, if you're interested in the Sixers,

but I mean, if he's just like a basketball fan, please, please check out the rights to Ricky Sanchez. It's one of the best podcasts out there. Mike, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks, Chris. Thank you again to Mike Levin, Justin Verrier, and the Dr. Dre of Heat Check, Isaac Lee. The mismatch comes at you tomorrow with Kevin O'Connor and Chris Vernon.

on the NBA feed. Group chat is on Thursday. Corner 3 is on Friday. He Check will be back next week with Juliet Lippman, starring as John Gonzalez, who will still be neglecting Isaac and this podcast.

Keep it 100, everybody.