The Ringer NBA Show - The Next Questions After the James Harden Trade | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos answer some next questions for all the parties involved in the James Harden trade. They discuss Harden’s fit on the Clippers, the next move for the Sixers, and more. Then they check in on a couple of young bigs in Victor Wembanyama and Evan Mobley and discuss their starts to the season (54:14). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws that Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify. And welcome to group chat. I am Justin

Verrier and joining me as always. Rob Mahoney Big Was. Rob, I think the question everybody is asking on this post-Halline Wednesday, did you go as Austin Reeves for Halloween this week? How dare you? How dare you? Wet your hair, get the flop sweat going a little bit. I think you could pull it off. You know, we had a moment there where I was getting people texting me pictures of Austin Reeves a lot being like,

Does anyone ever say you look like this guy? Really? Yeah. And it quieted as Austin Reeves' star had risen. He got a couple haircuts. I think we unsinked our haircut timing. That was the crucial part. So we were never quite at the same hair length at the same time.

But now you just had to bring it back. You just had to resuscitate this thing I thought was dead and buried. And now I have no choice but to inflict again the Max Struz look alike upon you. Having seen Max Drus in person somewhat recently, I have to say, really, it really checks out. Really? Because I don't see it. I guess there aren't many American, vaguely European-looking NBA players. And so there's just a select pool.

But, you know, I don't know, maybe. Was, what did you go for as Halloween? I was an FBI agent, Cointel Pro. My boy was Fidel Castro. Of course. And we sort of mended defenses on. that one. But I'm disappointed in you guys

not showing solidarity with the Great White American Hooper like Steve Kerr, who dressed up as Kevin Herder for Halloween. I don't know if you guys saw that picture. He rocked the Herder jersey, had the headband.

I was like, respect to Steve Kerr, showing solidarity with his fellow Great White American Hooper. Is that tampering? Is it tampering to just cosplay as someone on another team? I don't know. Steve Kerr being into Kevin

Herder is very on brand though by the way. He's if nothing else the spiritual successor of Steve Kerr as a player. All right, we have some stuff on the agenda on this post-Hallowing day. Nothing spooky unfortunately. I guess unless you're

the Los Angeles Clippers who might be in for freight, if you will with our friend James Hart. But you know, there's probably already been what, like 90 different emergency podcast. We're going to try to spin it forward a little bit and talk about some of the implications of the deal that went down. What was it? Late Monday night. If those are the

emergency pods and we're spinning it forward, what are we? Are we just like supplying the bunker with canned goods? Like what are we if not an emergency pod is my question? We're the same damn thing. We're just going to call it something different because we're going after all of those. I like that. I like that one. But you know what? You, the listener, are going to listen because in the very Matthew McConaughey in the Wolf of Wall Street voice, you are addicted. And so you're going to listen to this anyway. I'll say this. The distance from the actual event has allowed me to ruminate on this trade more than probably is typical of this sort of thing. And I will say at the very least, I think I'm talking myself into the deal, at least from the

Clippers perspective. I think it comes down to what the Clippers would have been this season without James Harden versus what they are now. And I think at the very least, this moves vaulted into the next tier of teams in the West, along with like the Lakers, maybe the Warriors, the teams just below the

nuggets because the nuggets are on another level so far this season and they're just a machine. Crazy to hear you say that. I know. But if an injury were to happen, for instance, like Nicola Yokos just breaks a thumb, Rob. I could see the clippers being on the same level where like, oh,

anything could happen now. What do you think about this trade? Yes. I think the important part is that they were distinctly not in that group before. They needed a couple of things to go right, a couple of dominoes to fall to get themselves into that, even like also ran contending category with the Lakers and Warriors. So getting themselves on that level is important.

I think it has a lot to do with some of the versatility. This move allows them. We think of James Harden as being one guy who plays one style, but having another ball handler, having another like kind of flexible rotation big and PJ Tucker coming into I think will help them and help kind of shore up the rotation in some spots. There's just a lot of ways this is going to make the Clippers a better, more well-rounded team. I am a little bit bummed as someone who has really enjoyed the Russell Westbrook as Clipper experience, that that picture and situation is going to get a lot more complicated because Russ was playing the best basketball of his last probably three or four years.

he looked happier than he's been in a long time. And now that he has to kind of figure out what his place in this new clipper dynamic is, I'm not saying it won't work. I'm not saying Russ doesn't welcome the trade. Like he and James are pretty tight still. I just really enjoyed... I mean, you know, guys in the NBA

are pretty understanding of each other's situations, to be honest. And even though those guys have had their own kind of turn around the super team carousel a couple of times now, I was just really enjoying seeing Russ reinvent himself at this stage in his career and find this nice lane with the clippers. And I hope he gets to continue doing some of that stuff with James in town. But the question is like, when does he do it? And where does he do it? And in what lineups is that version of Russell Westbrook possible?

I think they got better, obviously, because they're definitely more multiple and more dynamic now. they can stretch you out in different ways with James. We made jokes last week about the one ball theory. I think that kind of holds true for these four dudes because James and Russ refused to ever do anything off of the ball. And so, like, one of them does need to have a ball. And so, to Rob's point, Russ gets canceled out because he's just not as good as Hardin is

on the ball. And so, you know, we'll watch how that goes. I think PJ Tucker is an underrated part of this deal, especially in the postseason. I think he's going to matter when it comes to facing guys like LeBron and KD and those kind of bigger wing types that PJ is really good at being physical with. And I think this also protects them against the inevitable 10 game stretch when Kawhi misses, when Paul George misses.

Hardin's been a pretty, he's been pretty Ironman this whole career to his credit. He's got, you know, a lot of flaws to his, to his resume, but actually showing up is not one of them. And so I like what it does for this season. Absolutely. I think it does put them on another rung, but I don't think they're going to be this mega threat. I just don't. And, you know, the thing about what Hardin was doing in Philly, I think they're going to still be good.

But when they play the best teams, like, nobody's setting and beat up. That's not a thing that's going to happen the way Philly is constructed right now. Yeah, let's go through the clippers here. But Hardin's going to do that for these dudes. Like, he's still one of the best passers that we've ever seen. Granted, he still, you know, pounds the ball way more than we want to. And you wonder how that meshes with a Kauai. but overall, like I said,

I was very skeptical once the deal went through. I was like, man, like, what is this ultimately going to do for this team? But, like, the more that I think about it, like, Justin, I just think they have more dynamic lineups they can go to by spreading these four guys around throughout the game. And I think closing with Paul George, Kauai Leonard, and James Hardin is going to be a good lineup for them.

Yeah, I almost wonder if the time, timing of it was not a coincidence in that in the Utah game, the Clippers defaulted to kind of like a small ball lineup. And now on the one hand, it seems like PJ Tucker has to go anywhere that James Hardin does as if he's an accessory to this very expensive luxury item that you just need to work to get to work. But on the other hand, I do wonder if the best version of even this team with Hardin in it is going to be some weird small ball sort of version where it's like, the best of the Clippers in the Utah series where Terrence Mann just hit 90 different threes and knocked out the jazz. And also like the Houston team in which Russ was empowered to be this weird

center type. I don't know if Russ will ultimately be in that closing lineup and we should talk about that. But I almost wonder if they're basically saying we're going to be at our best at small ball. My question though, Rob is less about Russ and more about Hardin because the ball is going to be in Kauai's hand. not Hardens. Is he going to be okay ultimately in that setup, being the guy in the corner, basically spacing? I don't know if he's going to be spacing that much. I think he is going to be orchestrating and setting up Kauai, coming off pin downs, coming off action. At the end of games, though? I don't know what will happen at the end of games exactly. And that's where the clippers are going to have to be very careful with their lineups, right, in terms of how many non-shooters

you have on the floor around Kauai and Paul George. And I almost include, James Harden in that group when he's off ball because he functionally doesn't really want to take those shots. I think he got a little bit better last season in terms of taking straight spot-up jumpers when the ball came to him. But it's still very much

cut-sick and his green as soon as he touches it. He just can't help himself in a lot of those cases. And so again, if you have like Zubots and Westbrook and Hardin out there with those other two stars, the spacing might get a little tight if Kauai is just going straight ISO, right? Like if those are

the mechanisms of your offense. It could get a little, the spacing might not be exactly what you want from that kind of lineup. But I think Hardin is going to initiate. I think he is going to set up Kauai. I think he's a good enough threat as a second side guy. And we saw kind of some proof of concept from Hardin in Brooklyn

as far as what he can be and what he is willing to be playing with other high level players. I think he's just a dude who's like very content to play distributor and play in like a low accountability, high upside role. it seems like that might suit him very well at this stage in his career, given his exact talents as a playmaker, given what he could be to this team,

given that he gives them something that they don't have as like a next level passer. You know, like Russ can generate assists. He can draw a lot of attention and pass out of it. He's very good at that. But they don't have anyone who sees the court like James does. And that stuff I think will benefit Kauai and Paul George in ways where they don't have to ISO quite so much as they might in the current system.

Yeah, and also, Hardin definitely adjusted his game in Brooklyn where he became really a pure point guard when he first got there before the hammy started acting up. He just took over the whole playmaking duty. Kyrie seamlessly slid over to shooting guard, which is what he wants to play anyway. And of course, KD was KD. I think if Philly adjustment period took a little bit longer, you know, playing with that type of. big man, like the type of big man who you actually have to pass the ball to, unlike previous bigs that Hardin played with like Dwight Howard, you know, and Clint Capella, right? I think it took some adjustment.

I think this clipper thing is going to take some adjusting too. He's not a guy that's going to burn anybody in isolation anymore. So I think switching defenses are going to, you know, give him problems. But, you know, a thing that teams are going to have to think about when you're devoting your third best perimeter player on James Hardin. Do you want to switch that guy into Kauai? You know, so I think he does give them options. It's just options.

And, you know, the Rust thing, I get tired of saying it. Like, if he would dedicate himself and Harden, too, quite frankly, to being different kinds of players, they possess the skill set to be different kinds of players. If Russ was like, I'm going to be a souped up version of Gary Payton, Jr., on the Warriors, he would be an incredible piece for this team. But, you know, that's never been who Russ is.

There were moments in the playoffs last year. Because he was playing against KD. Yeah. He felt like he should play defense and crash the boards and, you know, be this everything type of player. Is he going to do that now? I would love to see it, but I have my reservations. Hawaii and Paul George weren't playing in that series.

That's probably a big reason why he was unleashed. And while he did a lot of things that he typically, didn't like he had the room in order to explore that right um i i expect russ to start at this point with those three guys if only because for the politics of it all i the worst of russ came when they diminished him and put him on the bench and kind of forced him and balked him into a role and with the lakers and so i don't know if you could do that in general but especially not to start with i think the question, though, is, like, long-term, is there any hope for those four guys to coexist with, I assume Zubach will get the starting spot because he always does, but even late in games,

maybe supplanting Zubach with with a Tucker. Rob, you see that ever being an answer for the Clippers? Yeah, I agree that in terms of politics, in terms of chemistry, I think there are a lot of viable reasons to start Russell Westbrook and James Harden together. And they make a certain kind of sense, if not optimal basketball sense, right? If you were just distributing what you have as best you can across your rotation, I think you try to separate those two guys a little bit more. I don't think we're going to see that,

but I do think, to your point, that we're going to see some small ball closing lineups for sure with PJ Tucker at the five. The tuck wagon is back in full effect. I'm happy to see it. Honestly, Philly didn't really rely on it that much. Like they were playing more Paul Reed or more kind of traditional bigs

as their backup fives these last couple years. Tucker in spots, but not a ton. and honestly, it could be like a really nice ceiling razor for the clippers because very quietly over the last couple years, their small ball lineups just like lost their edge. They still played them a lot. Like Tyloo was still flipping every switch he had at his disposal to see what could work with this team.

But in the 2021 season, the Clippers were amazing playing small. They blew the doors off team. And ever since then, they've been okay. And I think that kind of represents. some of the decline in the key figures involved. In 2021, Marcus Morris was one of your best small ball fives. Now he is, before this trade, out of the rotation entirely. Now he's on another team.

Nick Batum, useful player still, not who he was a couple years ago. Now he's on another team. These things are not coincidences. Robert Covington, for that matter, brought in. It seemed like Tyloo could never get fully on board with trusting him in this rotation or comfortable with what he could offer. Now on another team.

If PJ Tucker is the kind of five who can resuscitate those lineups a bit, that's going to be huge. And whether those are starting lineups or closing lineups or matchup dependent lineups, I'm not even too concerned about it so much as that the clippers now hopefully have an option that's better than okay

when they go small. Because you don't want to just like try to out Kauai at the five any more than you absolutely have to. And those lineups can be devastating and effective too, but if PJ can stop up some of that responsibility in those minutes, and you can still have Kauai and Paul George on the floor, like the defensive tenacity of those three alone

and the versatility they give you. Now we're getting back into what made the Clippers dangerous and special a couple seasons ago, and hopefully they can tap back into that again. Yeah, I think Doc Rivers never, he never really liked Small Ball, to be honest. He did that reluctantly. Ty Lou is, as we know, obsessed with Small Ball.

He's obsessed with spacing. So I would, I would, I would expect that is the big problem. You can only do that so much in Philly anyway. Yeah. But even with the Clippers, Doc was like very reticent to play no bigs. He loved having a big out there. And that big was Zubach, who, you know, respect, but he's no Embedit.

I think Toulouse, we're going to see a lot of small ball with this team because I think that's generally how he wants to play. He wants to be an offensive first type of team and just figure it. it out on defense. And so, you know, I wouldn't be surprised to see that. But again, I think somebody like Paul George, who, you know, is not going to get talked about as much in this deal because people just assume that he's going to be a Swiss Army type. He's going to fill in the gaps and the blanks.

And also, I wonder if this opens them up to make Kauai and Paul George actually guard the best offensive players again, you know, now that their load is a little bit lightened on offense, maybe on defense, they can go back to being the piranhas that we used to assume that they were. You know, against the jazz, they wouldn't even play them against Laurie Malkinen. Like, oh, no, these guys,

we got to keep them in a glass case and a bubble because Laurie is just going to give them too much work on defense. Like, you know, maybe now they can get back to actually sicken these dudes on the team's best offensive players. And hopefully that'll be a positive. positive outcome for them coming out of this deal. Was that was a Charles Barkley-esque Lowry Markman's pronunciation. I don't know what happened with that.

I mean, I think the Clippers are hoping that version of Kauai and PG on defense is still in there because they kind of have to be like PJ Tucker is going to be a dog regardless of the situation and how old he is. He's still going to have his bite, if you will. But like putting Hardin in there, he's not going to be doing that. And if Russ is the person that they're going to be doing that. and that they're going to be relying on in those sorts of lineups. He's going to give his all sometimes,

but other times he might just be in Russ land. I assume that eventually Terrence Mann will supplant Russ. And I mean, I assume that's why the Clippers were making such a big deal about not trading him to the Sixers in the first place. And if it is man in there for Russ, I do like this team a lot. And again, I don't think this rises them to the level of a Nuggets. But at the very least, it makes them interesting,

even in that matchup because they're going to maybe try to force the Nuggets to play their style of basketball where the Nuggets are so huge, they're going to be like, well, we have all these wings keep up with us and guard us on the perimeter. Yeah, they're getting closer, right? They're getting closer to the competitive level that they ultimately need to be at, even just to make the conference finals in the West. So that in itself is a big thing. I agree that Mann makes a lot of sense as a starter, especially because no matter what

you think of Kauai and Paul George and their defensive load at the stage in their careers, asking them to guard point guards is a lot. And so Terrence Mann is a guy who can guard credibly one through three, I would say, certainly one and two for most players. So having him and Hardin being able to trade off assignments, I think it just makes a lot of logical sense in terms of the starting lineup construction. We'll see what they ultimately do. I suspect Russ is going to, as we talked about,

get that initial look as the starter. And to be honest, if everything we're saying pans out and Kauai and Paul George can raise their defensive intensity along what you know as their offensive workload decreases Russ as like the chaos agent flying around the floor defensively weak side guy like that

that could really work it all just depends on his effort level his engagement level are you locked in when you're off the ball are you really paying attention to that back cut all the classic Russell Westbrook stuff that we have beat to death over the last like decade of his career cut to him just like

trying to go out into mid-court order to try to get a steal that no one asked him to do it. By the way, I would bet you Russ would tell you that he always plays like he did against Phoenix in the playoffs. Yeah. Like if you asked him, he'd be like, I always do that. I'm always that good. I'm always that engaged.

I'm always that locked in. I'm like, bro, you were playing against KD, who you clearly ate, and you raised your level. You raised your intensity. You put the onus on yourself to do more on the other end of the floor. And so, you know, we'll see. Like theoretically, Russia should still be able to guard point guards, right? But like you said, I think Terrence Mann is going to be that, you know, head of the snake guy. And I think Kauai and Paul George, ideally you want them as help defenders, you know, digging in and then getting back out to the shooters on closeouts.

Like, that's when they're at their best to me at this point, using their length and their, you know, collective IQ to gum up the works of these main actions that they're going to be playing. against. And so, you know, again, the theory of the team to me is, is much better than what it was. I'm not convinced that, you know, the clips won't clip, though. I'm glad you brought that up about Kauai and Paul George's help defenders, though, was because, you know, we've talked about a lot of people have talked about Kauai taking on fewer of those high-profile defensive on-ball assignments, like not being the stopper that he used to be, but man, rotating and help. If you're a role man coming down the lane and it's It's Kauai stepping in front of you.

For one... You don't want to put the ball on the floor. Oh my, I don't... You don't even want to put the ball in front of him whatsoever. Like, he will just rip it from you. He will strip you. Like, ball security is such an issue for Biggs, especially on the move. And Kauai is an absolute nightmare in that regard.

So very few stars across the league right now do the true double shift of high usage offense, high profile defensive on ball assignments anymore. Like, it's just not a viable thing that most people do. And especially in the regular season. So I don't necessarily blame Kauai and certainly someone with his injury history for trying to like bring down the mileage a little bit, bring down like the stress on every part of his body at this point. But he can still be a really impactful defender even just as a help side guy. Even as a rotating defender, he can make a gigantic impact on the game. Jump into the NBA action with Fandul America's number one sports book.

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So the clippers made themselves, at the very least, more interesting, maybe went up a level in the West. The Sixers seem to be at the same exact place where we left them when James Hardin was there. And I mean that as a glowing compliment. And now that might be a little bit damning about James Harden, his ability to raise a team ceiling, despite everything we just said over the past 20 minutes about what he'll do for the Clippers. It's probably more just a compliment to Tyrese Maxie and the fact that he's just looked incredible to start this season,

just looked everything like the player that Darryl Morey had fantasized about all offseason. We'd heard via the rumor mill he was going to be this season. I think it's funny that Rob just went through basically every player that the Sixers got and they were just all not answers to what the Clippers needed. They were just like solid rotation players. But I just think what they need this season is probably just a couple guys to get them through this season and then they can figure it out. And so I have to say like the,

the package that got returned to the Sixers doesn't look great on paper. But what they ultimately got, Rob, was just opportunity. And I guess Darry, if you want to give him credit, like he typically rises to the occasion in these situations where he has to make something work out of nothing. I think the reality of James Hardin's situation is that the market for his services was so slim. There were so few suitors for what James Hardin brings to the table in all respects,

that there wasn't really a way for the Sixers to, trade him and get back a star. Get back what they really need unless it was going to be a very elaborate three or four or five team construction where a bunch of different pieces are going a bunch of different ways. Like the clippers were not going to trade Paul George for James Hardin. That was never going to happen. And so under those circumstances, you get this kind of like precursor trade.

And this is a precursor trade if I've ever seen one. Like we are waiting for the other shoe to drop on the other half of this deal and what it is going to represent and what it's going to mean for the. sixers because what they got was some decent draft capital, some good veteran players on expiring contracts who will be tradable later. And I think that part of it is really crucial. I think the timing of this deal is very important because as you said, Justin, they could just kind of wait out, they could play with this group for this season if they wanted to and go hunting with cap space in the summer. But because they made this trade now, they're able to eventually aggregate

some of these players they just acquired to potentially trade for a star during the season before the deadline, right? There's that 60 day window where if you want to say, for example, put Marcus Morris and Nick Batum in the same trade with some picks to get a star of your choosing,

you have to wait 60 days from the date of this trade to make that happen. And so the fact that they're going to have some wiggle room on the other side of the 60 days before the trade deadline, then we can start talking Zach Levine. We can start talking OGN and Obie. We can start talking about some really interesting players

who could be available and solve some things for the Sixers this season because I know they're going to have cap space regardless but they are not in a position with Joelle and Bede to slow play this year and say, oh, isn't it so great that Tyrese Maxie is awesome now? Like they need to be as competitive as possible as soon as possible.

And if nothing else, this deal got them a little closer to doing that. They just have to kind of culminate the rest of the move based on everything they just acquired. I'm just becoming more, more skeptical about the game change in nature of most of the guys that come on the market, right? As much as I think Dame is a high-impact guy, you know, I'm skeptical at heart. Like, we don't, we're like, yeah, Hardin's going to do stuff for the Clippers.

And this is a team that has players that we are highly regarded by even us. And they get James Harden and we're like, eh, I don't know. You know what I mean? Donovan Mitchell, as much as, you know, we were like, like, yo, this guy's a great player and the Knicks are all in on this guy and they should be and blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, ultimately, what did he do by moving teams? He's basically Utah East now.

You know what I mean? Like, I'm skeptical that there's a guy that's going to really change the fortunes of the Sixers out there. I'm not saying Darrell can't get a move going. You know, his track record is that he's going to get. something done, something going. Like, at this point, you can't doubt him when he amasses assets or when he, you know, so obviously telegraphs that he's putting cap space together. He has an idea about things that he can do, that he wants to do.

And he's going to do something. I'm just skeptical that it's going to be for the kind of guy that makes Joel in this group, you know, way more elevated than they are right now. Which is not to say that they're so far from the leaders of the past. particularly in that conference at this moment anyway. I just don't know that they're going to put a deal together that gets them the dude that changes their fortunes dramatically. And so that's all I would say about that.

As far as this season, I think if we get a Joelle who is more assertive, just more MVP-like, I think this group is as good, not better than the group last year in a playoff setting. I really do. I think the two things you're talking about are connected, though. It's like, yeah, I agree. I don't know where this next star is coming from. And even like a Zach Lafine doesn't make sense to me because I don't know how he and Maxie exists in the back court. I think the big honking question for the Sixers, and it has been for months on end since this Harden thing kind of came to bear is like, is Maxie that guy? Like, and he's

played very well to start with. But if they home grow a nice compliment to you. and B'd, they can go out and get an Ninobe, they can get other guys that fit that duo as opposed to like just aggregating stars. It becomes a much more easy equation. I guess the question for you guys is Maxie, that guy. I think he's been one of the best guards in the league to start this season so far. And good in a way that wins Philly games and buys them time. And those are two very, very important things at this stage. I just think we've seen enough like super-star. moves to know that whatever is ultimately going to happen with Joelle, for example, is going to be much bigger than whether Tyrese Maxie is good enough.

It's going to be a much larger baggage-heavy conversation about his decade-long stint in Philadelphia and whether he is happy with this, whether he's ready to move on at some point, whether like if this trade saga in terms of figuring out who the next star is going to be takes a little too long, like those are much bigger things than whether Tyrese Maxie is awesome. because I think we can agree right now. As a scorer, Tyrese Max is awesome. Very, very good.

Good in pick and roll. Good in handoffs. Amazing shooter. Like, shifts gears as effectively as any guard out there. He does not pass. He does not pass. And we'll see how Joe, he's been better this season.

But we'll see how Joelle feels on the other side of that too, right? Like a Tyrese maxi pick and roll has very different endpoints than a James Harden pick and roll does. And how Joel feels about those endpoints, I think is pretty relevant. So far, I think they're working pretty well. together. They're working pretty well opposite each other. I just don't know that if Maxi, if this is who he is all season long, is that enough to

materially change who the Sixers are? Because James Hardin was very good last season. He was very good for the Sixers. And they had a lesser kind of put off to the side version of Maxi working in concert with that. I do think this team is going to be good. I do think that this gives them some interesting options. I'm just not so certain that even Tyrese Maxie leveling up, puts the Sixers where they ultimately need to be. Like, they still feel like a team that has moves they need to make. See, this is when I get on my Ben Goliver. I hate that we're even putting this on Maxi

and not the fucking dude who was crying about MVP's, right? Like, play like an MVP in the playoffs, right? I think they put together a group that can follow the Buck's formula to success when they had their one run, which was all-world defense and just enough offense because you have an MVP playing like one in the playoffs, right? Like, if Joel can bring himself to play the way Yonis did during the Bucs championship season in the playoffs, then I think this team can do things in the Eastern

Conference with the ancillary parts. I think they can lock people down now that they're not playing James Hardin 40 minutes a game, right? Like, I really do think they can get to a much higher level defensively than they were capable of because, again, And Maxie, who we all love now, he's not a defensive-minded type of player. He never has been. And when you're playing him and Hardin, there's just a ceiling, a very low one on your defense.

Now they don't have that. They have a lot of guys who can de the hell up against Joel. And Joel has to shoulder the burden. Be the fucking process. Be the person who's worthy of all this praise that you're always courting in the media. right? And so to me it's not on Maxi. It's on Joel Embed. The dude who was supposed to be so scared he's asking a trade. Because when he asks for a trade, it's going to be the end of the world and blah, blah, blah.

We'll prove that a world will end without you, bro. I mean, I think a world would end without him. Like, it's a pretty massive deal if Joel decides he wants to play somewhere else. Oh, they won't get to go to the second round anymore? Okay. No, they won't. I don't disagree. And Embedde deserves a lot of criticism for his playoff flameouts. if only because he's been willing to hand it out to every one of his teammates on their way out the door. I just think, like, you need something there.

And, like, you need one co-pilot. Even Nicola Yokic, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, needs Jamal Murray to run a pick and roll. You know what I mean? So, like, I think the question that is just like, is Maxie good enough for that? And then if you build, like, just a stout defense around that with Ogee and Melton and some of these other guys, like, is that enough? I like that team, but it's just tough because the conversation is really, are you on the level of a Celtics or a Bucks? And I just, I don't see a pathway to it.

I see a pathway to a very interesting competitive team, but then you might hit your head on the same ceiling you're hitting it on now. I think if Joel plays like an MVP, they're on the level of everybody. Maybe. That's what MVP's do. Honestly. Like, that's just, that's just how I feel. And also, I can do all things through Yokit who strengthens me.

name of the father the son the holy Michael Porter I am I think I'm a little more skeptical about Philly's defense than you guys are in its current form I agree you know James Harden excising his defensive minutes is a net positive they were already kind of doing that and when you looked at the team that they had before this trade this these aren't world beaters defensively other than Joelle and Bede right Juel and Bede right Juel and Bede amazing defender, obviously. Well, hold on.

If we're handing out blame here, can Tobias Harris just do something now? Like, there's no reason Tobias Harris can't play like a max player on both ends of the court. Like, can he be the difference? He's been good so far.

He's been really good. Like, Tobias Harris is good. I'm not expecting him to be anything more than Tobias Harris, who I appreciate for what he does, genuinely. But I'm just saying that short of an OG Ananobie type trade. And that's why he's kind of like my preferred guy for them

in terms of what they could potentially bring in. Not a superstar, but if, again, if Joel is playing like an MVP, I don't think you need one. I think you need someone who brings what he brings to the table defensively. Because otherwise, you're losing PJ Tucker. You're like primary on ball guy for a lot of matchups. Tobias is going to take on some of those responsibilities. I guess Nick Batum will potentially do some of that stuff.

Robert Huffington will get his shots as like an offball helper. and could shore up some rotation minutes. But, like, D'Anthony Melton is probably the other, like, high-level defender on this roster. And even he can be, like, a little chaotic sometimes for what they need. But Maxi, Kelly Ubre, Paul Reed, these are not world-beating defenders. It's Joelle as a backbone and everything else is kind of like holding water. Where I'm optimistic is offensively. Like, Maxi and Bede and potentially another high-level player,

plus, like, the connective tissue that guys like Batum could actually. add to this team. I like where they could be offensively. Defensively, I don't know. It's, I mean, the whole team is a placeholder right now. Yeah. This isn't going to be what they're ultimately going to be. I have my doubts that the cap space kind of gambit is ever going to materialize into anything. Maybe they trade somebody into the space.

It can't be for this free agent class. No, because the class is, is, unless O.G. And nobi opts out. I could see him, being the type of guy that you might want to overpay in the situation? Like makes this team fire? No. Like he basically replaces Toby and they're so good now?

No. And the whole thing is like nobody actually gets the free agency anyway. Everyone gets traded for. There hasn't been a major free agent acquisition since Kauai in 2019. KD and Kareen 2019. I think if the 6 is off for Pascal Seaco and Max Thiel,

he's going to, oh yeah. I mean, he'll take the money. But I just don't think that fit makes any sense. So, like, I would assume the next move is rolling these expiring contracts, and there's a whole goddamn lot of them on the Sixers for somebody else before the deadline. That would be my expectation. But I don't know who that is.

I guess the one thing in the Sixers benefit is the takeaway from the whole Dame fiasco is much like weather in New England. If you just wait long enough, it's going to change. You know, like, I think, like, if you give it two to three months, some star is going to be upset. and they're going to want a new home and maybe the Sixers are the team for that. But I don't know, even the package isn't all that attractive.

It's only a couple picks and even the picks have certain protections and whatnot. I'm going to be honest, I never really understood the New England weather bit. I feel like it's, here's the thing. Weather in your area, wherever you are in the world, I feel like is very much the Roger Sherman. Like, did the squirrels on your college campus

have some mystical quality that everyone talks? Like, everyone talks about the erratic weather where they live. Like, I think that's just life. in L.A. Rob. That's why you gotta move down here. Def Roe, welcome the Defro Records. Not in L.A. I don't even look at my weather at, brother. You guys need to get accustomed to life out here in the real world with the rest of us.

There is L.A. and there's the rest of the planet. And let me tell you, we're not doing great at the moment. 84 and Sunshine is today. Somehow, some way, on November 1st. Yeah, I don't know who the next person is. But I guess anything could happen because in the NBA, as we've seen, seen as we're and like nothing clarifies that more than the fact that Russ Harden, Kauai and Paul George are all playing on the same team together in 2020.

So, so here's the thing, right? Like, let's just, just humor me as I piss off Isaiah real quick. Let's just say the Celtics flame out. How dare you? In the playoffs,

right? Jalen, Jalen Brown's going to be on the block. He's, in fact, I'm convinced he's on the block right now, right? what Jalen Brown on this?

It makes the Celtics worse for sure. But like, do we think like Jalen Brown and Joelle they're just going to start killing people? Like, who are these players that are going to save these guys? Time's got to be Joel. Yeah, that team sounds pretty sick. Tyreece, Maxie, John, Brown. Yeah, I'm signed me up for that.

If you say so. Well, plus, I mean, between the addition by subtraction of making the Celtics worse and making the Sixers better. I think Philly would have reason to be pretty optimistic about where they stood in the conference after something like that.

Because what we know is it's not going to be a player from a mid-tier to crummy team. Like they're not going to get somebody off of Charlotte that takes them to the next level, right? Like they're not going to take somebody off of the Hawks. They're not going to trade for Tray Young and become the second coming, you know, of the faux, four, four, four sixers.

Like, who is this savior coming? That's why, like, I hate our examination of some of these deals, you know, outside of what it means for the players that are actually on the roster right now. Because, like, a lot of the analysis that I read was like, Darrell's going to, you know, Darrell's always, he's always got the next move coming. And I'm like, what's the next move going to do for these dudes? That's ultimately how I feel. because this whole process thing, man,

from freaking hinky, another false profit. We cannot do this. It's just been annoying. The Sixers are always, man, this is just going to be sick in the future and this next thing. It's a Ponzi scheme.

Ultimately, these dudes got to do it on the court, man, and it's got to start with Joel freaking Embed. I think that drawing the line at foe, foe, foe, sixers and saying, like, If you're not that, you're shit. They're just trying to get better. Are you new to this podcast and things? Come on.

I'm saying, can Philly make their roster better? And I think there's lots of ways they can do it. I think there's ways they can do it where one of the reasons why I really like OG as a fit is because you can trade for him now. And if it doesn't work, you can go elsewhere in the summer with your cap space. Or you can resign them. It maintains the flexibility of, oh, we can. can still do a thing.

You may have to get, obviously you have to give up draft capital to get him in the first place. And maybe that ask from the Raptors, as historically has been the case, will be too much and too rich for anything that Philly wants to do. But I like those kinds of solutions, right?

Like, make yourself better. Keep the options open and see what happens. I don't think with a player like Joelle, you can just turn off the possibility that he can be better than he's been in the playoffs, that he can have a great run. Like, you just need one great, One great run.

I would too. I would too. And I think all you can do in the Sixers position, unless you are ready to hit the eject detonate button. You just have to keep taking chips at it. Like keep trying to make your roster incrementally better. Keep bringing in new high-level players who could make you level up in some way or another.

I think there's lots of ways to do that with what they've got. And I don't think those are going to be superstar solutions. but if you have Joel, you know, theoretically, you shouldn't need a superstar solution. Here's the thing. Theoretically, huh? Theoretically, you should not. The team that is widely rumored daily, monthly for years now to be beckoning Joel Embed is the New York Knickerbockers.

And while there are certain different aspects and like personal things and like Joel going back into the CIA bus. that might force him to overlook some of the technical. Was that CIA or CIA? Did I say, I said CIA. Both. I'm just saying, A.

Waz and F-E-I agent should know. This is my New England coming out, I guess. I say leg differently than most people as well. Waz is trying to, like, he's trying to couch all the interagency chatter as best he can and just like takes. He's trying to tell us what's really going on and we're not listening. So my,

My eyes are open now. If y'all think CAA ain't got deep state connections, y'all onto something else. But here's the thing. Is Joelle going to the Knicks and playing with Brunson an appreciably better situation than Maxie an opportunity with Mori? That's my whole thing. It's like, I don't think the Sixers are complete by any mean. And I don't think they're like on the level of a title contender where they probably should be with a player with Embed. But like, I see the pathway with the Sixers better.

than the Knicks, certainly. And like maybe even the heat, considering like those guys are just older and they would probably have to even trade BAM to get and beat in the first place. I think the Knicks, and this is not me being a New York City homer, I think they have a tougher culture than the Sixers.

It's just tougher. And I wonder if he played on the Knicks, if he played in that environment that Joelle would be tougher. I really do. I wonder if his mentality would change with a change of scenery, you know. I'm, I, and this is obviously different levels of players,

but I think about when Rashid went to Detroit. His whole shit just changed. Yeah. He became a way more winning type of player in Detroit. He didn't score as much. And obviously the players around him, these are Hall of Fame level dudes that he was around. But he, he changed as a player once he went to Detroit.

And he was in a, you know, a more tough-minded environment, an environment that didn't draft him didn't call him the fucking savior since the day he came out the womb. Right? Like, I think a change of scenery might change how this dude acts.

Like, I don't know that Joe... Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Some level of accountability because, let me tell you something, man. Dumb Nick fans will curse you out. Okay?

At Lavo. Okay? And they will curse you out wherever you're at. And so I wonder if a change of scenery would change the kind of player that he is. I'm not, you know, I'm not saying that would be the case. I'm not saying, you know, everybody goes to New York City and just becomes this tough, gritty person. I'm not saying that. I'm not being that New Yorker right now.

But I wonder what a change of scenery might do for this guy. And quite frankly, the Knicks, they fucking play tough. I don't think they're... I don't think they're that talented. They somehow find a way to get things done over there. They do have a tough culture right now. And so I wonder if that would be the case. I don't think the talent would be appreciably better.

Yeah. It would just be Joelle in a new context. And that's okay. Like that's kind of what these moves usually are. It's not about a cut and drive better basketball situation. Kevin Durand didn't leave the Warriors for the Nets because it was a cut and drive better basketball situation. LeBron didn't go back to Cleveland

because it was a cut and dry better basketball situation. There's some other reason. It was a cut and dry better basketball situation because Dwayne Wade was old and played like shit in the playoffs and like the roster was deteriorating around him. The conspiracy theory that I don't think is actually a conspiracy theory is he did not go home. He went for a better younger roster.

I think he saw something in Kyrie that he valued and thought was special and wanted to play with. But the idea that like Kevin Love and Dionne Wade were going to be the ultimate solution. Oh, you're forgetting how good, like, people thought love was at the time. No, no, love's very good, but like that early version of the team

before they traded for J.R. Smith and Timothy Mosgob, and I repeat, bailed themselves out by trading for J.R. Smith and Timothy Mosgov. Like, don't forget Shumper. They had problems, right? LeBron shows up a month into the season. He went on break back to Miami to chill for a couple weeks. Yeah, but I don't think he thought he would,

that was going to. be what he was walking into over there. I think so like by the time, by the time that series ended with the Spurs, where they got smoked and LeBron played great. Completely smoked. They got worked. I think LeBron was like, yo, this team is kind of done what it can do. I'm tired of Pat Riley yelling at me and telling me what to do all the time.

I want to go play with younger, you know, players that I think can elevate me rather than me elevating them, which I think, you know, by the end of it in Miami, he kind of was propping up D. Wade or as I was calling him at the time, knee Wade. So I think he was at that point with Miami. That's some Trump shit from you was. What I did you big bucks, man. Listen, man, yo, we talk so much crap about Kauai. D. Wade invented that. He invented that those last two he seasons. What, he invented knee problems? No, well, you know, like, oh, I only play 56 games no matter what and blah, blah, blah,

and saved myself for the playoffs. And, you know, even in the playoffs, you know, not exactly going to be roses. You know, whatever. I got sidetracked. But, yeah, no, LeBron was leaving a situation that felt like he was carrying those guys. You know, guys who get played just as much as him, he was carrying them. I don't disagree with that at all. I just don't think he looked at Cleveland and saw a version of Kyrie who hadn't

won anything yet, a young Tristan Thompson. Again, Kevin Love at a very productive but unproven stage in his career and thought like, oh, this is basketball nirvana for me. It was, I'm going to Cleveland and I value this situation. And there's a lot of things extracurricularly that are valuable to me about it. And therefore, I'm going there. And it's promising enough. And it worked out. I don't think that's true. And I think there's a lot of whispers behind the scenes to suggest as much, but that we don't have to litigate, like basically this like it's water game. We can do us,

our Patreon part is going to be about the Healds, so don't worry. We can save that for the Patreon. My point is not that the heat were in a great place. My point is that the calves were at a very raw, unproven place. And he was taking mold into something, which he quickly did.

He was taking speculative talent and thinking like, oh, this could be something. Do we see Joellen Bede as a molder of talent? Not necessarily a culture setter, or if he is, it's just like getting people to tweet inane things. But if you are Joelle Embed, I think the larger point is this.

If you're Joelle Embed and you're weighing the Sixers situation against other ones, I really don't think it's about Tyrese Maxie's leap. I think it's going to be about what do you see in that other situation, not just is Jalen Brunson as good as Tyrese Maxie, but is Jalen Brunson plus whoever might want to come play with you in New York, a better situation for you? Is being in the city of New York? a better situation for you,

for whatever reason you might deem that to be so. Start spreading the news. I'm leaving today. I want to be a part of it. Come on now. Come on now. This all feels a little doom and gloom,

I have to say. We're getting a little ahead of ourselves as far as what this trade could mean for the Sixers. I think the Sixers are in a position. Hold on, though. because like Mori is basically saying with this trade we're going to be something in the future

just wait and see what I could do with this stuff so if we are jumping ahead it's because Mori and the team is but isn't that what GMs are paid to do sell us on the future isn't that their job is to trick us into thinking they have some grand master plan because they're so

fucking smart and genius and they see the future that we can't that's his job he has to say that he has to say that yeah do you think They're all just like Steve Jobs up there on the stage with the cube selling us some shit that won't work. Yes. Yes. Yes.

What do you think Charlotte's GM is selling their ownership right now? Like, that's what they all do. Like, this shit is going to be great in the future. Watch, right? Like, that's what they all do. I'm not surprised that Mori has positioned this deal that way, right? That he wants us to view it that way. But, you know, we'll see.

For the record, I think this podcast is going to be great in the future, too. Like, get in on the ground floor now. Ride with us to the top. That's right. That's right. We're going to be up there with Joe Rogan, El Chapo. We're going to be up there, boy. Do we have to?

Yes. If you want a new pool, Rob, we damn sure do. Just wait for our All Saints fantasy draft, which, again, going on to Patreon. Matthew, underrated, by the way. Before we get out of here, I do want to talk about our friend Victor Webanyama, who had quite the performance on Tuesday night, coming back from what seemed to be a game that was over within the first five minutes against the suns and beating them late in the game. We haven't really talked about Wembe much now that he's actually playing. We talked a lot about him leading into this season. But just the overall experience has been really incredible, particularly in the fourth quarter, Rob, because oddly enough, it seems like Wemby is a lot.

certain player for the first three quarters, feeling things out. They don't really let him play with the point card for the most part, but then in the fourth quarter he has this tendency over this first four games, just all of a sudden come roaring back, looks incredible, and the spurs are playing better as a result of that. Is there any reason why you could see why that's happening? Or is this maybe something like the spurs are doing and how they're utilizing him? Well, one of the games, there was just like a logistical reason for it,

which was he was in foul trouble. So he just didn't play. I think it was in the Dallas game. He just didn't play a lot in the opening three quarters. And down the stretch, you can write him a little bit more, let him go. But moreover,

I kind of like the takeover dynamic that that creates of the opening three quarters. We're going to run our stuff. We're going to try to get everybody involved. We're going to let Keldin and Devin Vassel eat. We're going to work like a lot of different actions so that when we get to the ends of games and we're just lobbing over the top to Victor inside

on a deep seal and transition, nobody knows what to do with it. nobody has any basis for it. I think there's something to that. And I think there's something to setting up your future superstar for these sorts of takeover moments because he's been very good down the stretch of many of these games. You know, makes his mistakes,

loses his handle a couple times. Like that stuff is going to happen. But he looks very tough to guard. He's made a massive impact on defense already. I don't mind the first three-quarter to fourth-quarter discrepancy so much because he's been so good in the fourth quarters. I think it would be one thing if they were feeding him late and it wasn't working, but it's kind of working. I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I think he's two team first a little bit to his detriment.

If he had just like a little, like a smidge of Jordan Poole in him, I think he'd be playing differently throughout the first three quarters. I think he legitimately would be playing differently. It would, and I think he's going to serve him in the future to be this type of team first mentality. I do. But I think that's why he plays like that in the first three quarters. He wants to be part of the unit. He's not trying to hog the glory and hog the, you know, the possessions and things. He's not trying to make every single game, every possession about himself, which, you know,

I think it's ultimately an incredible quality and is going to make him a great player down the road. But I think that's what we're seeing. There's like, he's fine with deferring to his guys and letting a bunch of dudes. to, you know, Justin's like, why don't they plan with a point guard? Do they have a point guard? Yeah, this is kind of the question about that. It is better. I think the problem is that, like,

the first unit, they're allowing Sohan to play point card and also more importantly, Vassell to play through a lot of his mistakes. The green light is not only on for Wembe to, like, figure out things. It's for Vassel as well. This neon green for him. Yeah, and he's just not that guy who's going to set up Victor in the way that he

probably needs to. But I think to this point, they have played Jones more in the fourth quarter. And I don't think with Wembe, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Wembe is taking off as a result of that. I think they're probably maybe prioritizing development in the first couple quarters, and then the fourth quarter maybe going with what actually works now in the year. I don't know. Honestly, I think Trey Jones is fine. I think the marginal point guardy value from Trey Jones to Jeremy Sohan is maybe not as high as you would think.

It helps, but I think it's noticeable. I think it helps. I just think right now putting your best young prospects on the floor and figuring out how weird you can be makes sense for a Victor Webb and Yama team. And like Jeremy Soney's a good prospect who doesn't have a natural place in the roster otherwise, like especially in the starting lineup. So I like having him out there. Yeah, it hasn't been great in terms of the flow of the offense in a lot of those situations.

He's in a point guard role for the first time, really, in his entire basketball career. So, like, I'm fine with letting him ease into that and figure out if he can do it. And, yeah, maybe 20, 30 games into the season, you decide to try something else. I think that's well within bounds for a team in San Antonio's position.

Yeah. But otherwise, I think the Wembe experiment is kind of, like, what we expected. He's just doing a lot of things just by being giant and with his length. And then, like, he's getting pushed around at times. And I think the book is kind of out on him at this point where if you just got, get in on him,

that, you know, you can push him off his spot, He's doing a lot of fading away as opposed to moving toward the basket, but at the same time when he's basically at the basket, when he's like 10 feet outside of the paint, like he could still just get rebounds over the top of large center-sized humans and dunk over them with very little effort. And so that's just been incredible to watch. But man, just watching him take step back threes from like five feet out of the three point line is, is. still after four games, like you don't get used to that. I don't know when it will stop feeling insane. You know,

he had a play in this game against the Suns where he collected an offensive rebound that he shouldn't have been able to get and then basically took like a backwards, like literally backwards and one layup that had the Sun's bench like, what? They couldn't, they were just like looking at each other,

like what just happened, the fact that he's able to extend with that kind of reach in all of these different directions that players aren't used to. I don't know when we're going to going to get used to that. I don't know when opponents are going to get used to that because it's very clear out of the gate. He is a focus in the scouting report. He is an emphasis for opponents. And I think

that's some of two why we're seeing, especially early in games, why they're keying in on him so much. And the fact that the spurs are leveraging that impact over those first three quarters does make some sense. But I don't know that this is ever going to feel normal. And that's going to be a lot of Victor's power is the ability to make any game feel like a completely unique thing, a unique competitive circumstance that opponents just aren't used to dealing with. Also, Sons, 33 points to this group in the fourth quarter, 37 to quarter before? Yep. It was gruesome.

Just Kelton Johnson ripping the ball out of Katie's hands. And while it probably was a foul, like that was just an ugly way for the Sons to ball that game. They were not ready for Kelton Johnson time. Let me tell you that. He was getting to the rim, getting out on the. the break, tearing the basket down. Great, great look for Kelton Johnson in that one. All right. Quickly

before we go, if we're going to talk about one, gangly boy from last night, we have to talk about the other one, and that's Evan Mobley, the Lord and Savior for some people, if they're not already worshipping at the altar of Nicola Yokic. He played the Knicks again, coming off of probably his best offensive

performance of his career, 33 points against the Pacers. Against the Knicks, he got his pushed around yet again. Rob, what do you think about Mobley now here going into year? What is it? Three? Is this leap that has been foretold coming?

I think something was often the foretelling. You know, whatever prophesying we were doing, whatever tea leaves or suits saying was going on with that, it doesn't feel great at the moment. Yeah. I mean, this just feels like a much, much, much longer term offensive project for Evan Mowbly. He looks very much like the player we've seen. I think that's, that happens sometimes for young players, you know,

at points where we expect them to take a leap and they come back and it's just kind of like, oh, this is the same guy. And right now, Mowbly being the same guy means when he gets the ball inside, his move is like pump fake, pivot, pivot, pivot, hope and pray, he can create enough space to rise up for the dunk.

He just does not have the capacity to go up strong right now. And that's, it's really hurting him, right? It would be one thing if it was just oh, he doesn't have credible shooting range on an every night basis. He's not spacing out to the three. That stuff is fine if you can go up and finish strong. But when you're doing that and you're getting bodied by some of these bigs.

And to be honest, in this game against the Knicks, Mitchell Robinson did not have a great game. The Knicks didn't look like the version of the Knicks that really controlled and shut down the calves in the playoffs. Like they had their own issues. Evan Mowgli just had more of them, especially on offense. And he just turned completely. invisible. And that can't happen. You have to find some way to impact the game. Early in it,

you picked up four like pretty quick assists, making plays, connecting dots, you know, helping them work out of some of the pressure on guys like Mitchell. That stuff is really nice when you can get it. And if you can find ways to be consistently impactful facilitating all power to you, but you cannot disappear for two-thirds of a game like this, especially a game where Jared Allen is out, Darius Garland is out, Karras Leverd is out. It is you and Donovan Mitchell and whatever you're going to get from like Max Bruce and George Nying. And Tristan Thompson, baby, he's back. Not only is he back.

I think you can make an argument that Tristan Thompson made more of an impact on this game than Evan Mobley is. And that is inexcusable. Yeah. Yeah, I think the part that of Garland not being there, I think matters a lot for all of Donovan Mitchell's, you know, greatness. Setup Man is not one of them. And that's, that's been Garland's charge.

since he's gotten there, right? Since Mobley's gotten there. And so I think that absolutely affects the flow of what they're trying to do. Obviously, I have to get effects the spacing too. Like, you know, I love Nyang as much as the next guy, you know. It's just not great spacing. Like, the works are just getting gumbed up

every single time people are trying to do anything in pick and roll. And so, you know, I don't want to be too hard. on the guy, but like a lot of the stuff that got people excited about his game, it was predicated on, yeah, and he's going to be a plus offensive player. He's going to be a factor offensively. Teams are going to have to devote resources to stopping what he's doing specifically in their scouting report. That just hasn't been the case, man. And, you know, the part where he can't even get to the free throw line, you know, as a big playing center. It's tough.

And so that's what I would just like to see more, man. Not even just like being stronger. Just like, bro, like make them block you. Make them go through your body. Make them do that stuff instead of just, you know, these little feathery floaters, push shot type of things. It's like, come on, man. You know, you had to stop watching DeAndre 8 and tape.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah, zero free throws against the Knicks, which is near impossible against a team that's that physical that was planned. playing him that physically. I will say, like, until he gets to the basket, it looks great. Like, he's very quick and athletic and has that preternatural feel for everything. And so he's making all these quick moves and these handoffs and he's getting down there. And then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, I'm Ben Simmons now. Like, I don't know what to do here. And so I really like

watching Mobley. I just think, and like to the other side of it, when he was playing against the Pacers and he had more space to move around, it seemed like he was doing stuff better at the basket. I just, I think he's more comfortable playing with another center because that center will soak up a lot of the physicality. I think like when Nyang got in there, you saw things open up for him a little bit. Even Tristan Thompson being able to take on that role, I think helped him at times. But then like, it doesn't make sense with the way that the calves are bill. I think he needs to be the center. I think then he needs spacing. But what happens with Allen? Do they have the space? It just becomes the same conversation over and over again. And unfortunately, I think,

this is, like Rob said, a multi-year process. I don't think the Cavs have that much time with Mitchell. And here we are back at Groundhogs Day. I think part of the problem offensively is that I had the same experience watching him, you did Justin, which is that on the move, on the dribble, the first couple steps of a drive

always look really good. He looks really explosive. He looks really quick. He just doesn't harness that kind of kinetic energy into an actual attempt. Everything he takes going to the basket stops. At some point, he's going to stop, gather, pivot, spin, try to make something happen when the reality is. He's one of the most athletic players on the court.

Like, he needs to go more consistently straight to the basket. And I don't know whether it's overthinking it. I don't know whether it's a lack of offensive confidence. I don't know whether it's just like a lack of context in his whole basketball life in terms of being a go-to-offensive guy on a game-to-game basis. But there's just something that doesn't seem that natural to him about it. And maybe it never will. And maybe he can find ways to work around that. in time. But right now it's not there. And I think these first couple games, the Pacers game

excluded, have kind of illustrated of some of the shortcomings of what he's still bumping into. And you just hope you see more games like that Indiana one where, again, Cleveland is down guys. They need him to score and he finds ways to convert consistently. Hopefully they're not in this position that often where they're down two and three like key, key players in the rotation. But sometimes that happens. And you would hope that your young guys. in that moment when he has no other option would take it upon himself to be at least an effective and productive offensive player.

But that was not the case in this one. I'm still hopeful for the Evan Mobley offensive experience in the longer term, but we're not there. We're very clearly not there. Here's a question just quickly before we go. Is Chet already a better offensive player than Mobley? Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. Are we kidding? It's not even a... It's two things. He's aggressive at the bat. and he has a three-point shot, which you can't say. And he has a handle. He's handling it.

He's creating for himself off the dribble. Like, he's already light years ahead of Mowbly on offense. Chet is, Chet one of the ones, y'all. I'm going to wait and see a little bit on Chet. He has some of the same. This is when I got to get Tucker Carlson on the phone on you. y'all when y'all do this to chat.

We gotta wait and see with Chet. But with Mowbly, it was like, yo, this guy's gonna be the next Bill Russell out the gate. But with Chet, we gotta wait and see. I'm tired of this shit. Chet is the one, Rob. I love Chet.

It has been four games. And this is a guy who has as rail thin as Evan Mowgli, if not more so. It has been four games. Let's relax for a minute. Let's be excited. Let's project to the future. And the three for the three for Chet is really hitting.

He's hitting all kinds of looks out there. Very so comfortable. Giving them a huge spacing benefit that they otherwise may not have depending on which other bigs you would want to plug in there. Obviously Jalen Williams can do it in the capacity he did last season. But Chet, at his dimensions, is a very different thing. So he's getting great. He's playing the five right now.

Yeah. He's doing it right now. They just putting them in the fire. And he's got toughness, bro. this dude is a gamer. I'm excited about what he's doing over there, man. It's really cool to see. And another guy who I think is very team first,

I think he should be more aggressive than what he's shown. You know what I mean? I think, you know, obviously you understand he plays with a lot of talented guys and he's deferring a bit, but I would love to see him be even more assertive on the offensive end. I'm pumped about what Chet's doing right now. he's very much playing off of all the ball handlers that OKC has

and probably could do a little more. I agree in a way that Mobley, even when you force feed him on knights like this, just not really in his game. But I love what we've seen from Chet so far. I love all of our various slender men. I think they're all doing the best they can. I do think that that contrast was that you illustrated, though,

about playing center is very interesting. The idea that Mobley was allowed to slow play into the four and more patiently build up his game and his body in a way where he still doesn't feel comfortable playing center at this stage. And throwing Chet into the fire from day one, I'm very curious to see how that pays off developmentally or how that kind of changes the arc of who he can be.

It's a gangly boy takeover in the NBA right now. Everyone looks like a goddamn sound cloud rapper, including Chet, first and foremost, honestly. All right, that's it for us. We'll be back on Sunday. Thank you to Isaiah Blakelyon. Thank you, Ben Cruz. We'll see them. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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