The Ringer NBA Show - The Phoenix Suns Are Headed to the NBA Finals | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

Justin, Rob, and Big Wos get together to talk about the Suns’ win over the Clippers in Game 6 of the Western Conference finals to make it through to the NBA Finals (1:34) and what the Clippers should do this offseason after another late-round loss in the playoffs (24:14). Then they get into a little bit of Bucks-Hawks talk as they look toward Thursday night’s Game 5 (37:53). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Court Fits is The Ringer's new weekly NBA video series hosted by Big Waz, a.k.a Wosney-Lambre. Each week, we take you around the world of NBA fashion and share can't-miss style choices from your favorite players and keep you up to date on the latest news and releases in sneaker culture. Waz also talks to experts like Damian Lillard's personal stylists to give you behind-the-scenes looks at how the NBA's biggest stars choose their outfits. New episodes drop every Friday, so make sure you're subscribed to the Ringer's YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash The Ringer, so you never miss it. an episode. COVID vaccines are starting to become available to the general public. Getting vaccinated is the first step to getting back to all the things we miss the most. Know what I miss the most? Getting outside because I have been watching the glorious NBA playoffs for about two months now, even though I have been vaccinated. I'm looking forward to getting into a bar this weekend to watch

a soccer game. I have no idea what's going on, but I'm going to be around other people, so that's exciting to me. Rob Mahoney, what are you looking forward to? I'm looking forward to pulling forward to. I'm looking forward to pulling you back inside, you and me and Waz, in the same room actually podcasting for once. How do you feel about doing more work? Cheers to that, my friend. But you know what, Rob, it's okay to have questions like, should I get it? Is it safe? Should I wait?

You can get the facts at get vaccine answers.org. So you can make an informed decision. To group chat, I am Justin Verre. Joining me as always, Rob Mahoney. Big Waz is here too. We're doing this as we typically do on sports. Spotify Green Room. So welcome to all of the listeners here live. Get your questions in throughout the recording and we'll be able to take some. We'll get into some other stuff later on.

But first, we need to talk about the Phoenix Suns are in the NBA finals. Was, did you ever think you would see a day where Chris Paul would be in the NBA finals? Yeah, definitely. I thought, I thought I would see a day where he would be in the NBA finals, probably as like a hanger-on type of ring chasy kind of vet. not as one of the engines driving a team, right? So credit to Chris Paul. This isn't some cheap finals appearance for him. Like he's a major reason as to why this team succeeds in the way that it does. So shout's to Chris Paul for, you know, persevering and, you know, running into some nice luck. You know, it's misfortune for other teams. It is, though, but that's not to

denigrate the accomplishment. It's just saying, like, it's misfortune for other teams. But It takes luck for every team to make the finals. Right. The guy just punched his ticket to the NBA finals, and that was the most backhanded ass tapped through I've ever seen. Come on, Waz. Come on. I have to say, this was possibly the most Chris Paul performance he could ever put together.

Like, definitely not his best, although good God, he really turned it on here in the second half. But the game was hanging in the balance, and Chris Paul just took it by his hands and wrapped his hands around the throat of the game. He scored, let's see, 31 points. in the second half really just took over there. And then on top of that, exaggerating contact was trying to lure Boogie Cousins into an ejection,

then finally got an ejection on one Patrick Beverly in which he immediately after getting shoved, I have to say Pat Bev just shoved the hell out of him. But Paul, as he's want to do, immediately grabs for his neck as if he needs the neck brace already and then pops up with his hands raising in the year. That is a Chris Paul performance. Rob, to you, did this seem appropriate that Chris Paul would go to the finals in this way? It was every shade of Chris Paul.

I'm curious if you gave him the option, you said, Chris, you could get to 50 in this game, but we're going to take the two-handed shove from Pat Bev back. I think he would take the shove. I think he wants to get under Pat Bev's skin that badly. I mean, we got the flop on Boogie Cousins. We got Chris, you know, trying to draw foul at every opportunity, and also, coincidentally, just being the best most punishing player.

on the floor in this game. Yeah, and I want to get back to the luck thing because I think the Milwaukee game is instructive, right? They get a Trey Younglist Atlanta Hawks team, and they're getting smoked by the time Janice gets freaking injured. And God only knows when or if he's going to be able to come back in this series specifically.

Imagine if they would have been taking care of business when Janus went down, and they were the ones up 13. They go up 3-1, and they can wipe their hands. they can rest easy at night knowing Janice, if he can't come back and take his time doing it and they're going to take care of business

against a lesser opponent and said they did the opposite and now they're in a world of trouble. The sons didn't do that. They took care of business tonight and now they're going to the final. So, you know, luck is presented to you, but you got to take advantage of it too when the sons did that.

Yeah, I don't mean to troll, especially up top before we have really dived into all of the brilliance of the sun's side of things. But I have to say, I thought the clippers were the better. team in the series if they had a healthy Kwai Leonard. And I thought that showed over the past couple of games. Like obviously the first few like, you know, the dunk that won it for the Sons in Game 2. That could have gone either way. But like the Clippers seemed like they found something

that was successful by not playing all their bigs by downsizing to the point where they were playing Marcus Moore is not even Nicholas Batum and they're starting line up at center. And it seemed like it rattled the Sons to a certain extent. Like the driving lanes were there. And it seemed like that cater to the specific isolation type of excellence, I guess we could say, of Reggie Jackson, of Paul George, of Marcus Morris. And it really seemed like the sons were having difficulties figuring it out. Unfortunately, I think they just ran out of gas in that second half. Obviously, Paul was the driving force behind that.

But I think a lot of this just came down to like playing micro ball against a team that is able to be so big. They just like, it's going to just grind and wear on you. And they just really didn't have the depth, especially when like someone, someone, like Zubotch, who we've talked about, isn't like the best player to go against DeAndre Aden, just like wasn't even available. Well, that's where I think the Sons did figure this out. I think you're right that they had a moment there where they really had to crack.

How are we going to get this switching smaller defense or sometimes zoning smaller defense to move? How are we going to get these guys to budge so we can get them in a rotation so we can get into our stuff? It took them a minute to figure it out. But that's how the Sons are in the NBA finals is that they've become some of the NBA's better problem solvers. They don't have the one guy, the LeBron level guy who's going to just break you down and figure you out. Chris Paul can do some of that to an extent, you know,

depends on his matchup, depends on what he has in front of him. But collectively, you know, like coming into the first quarter of this game, they went right to Aden every time they could, every time that matchup presented himself after barely doing it in the previous game. That was huge. Devin Booker was aggressive in exactly the way they needed to be hard drives to the rim, got a couple of contested dunks. That's how you have to move a defense that's switching like this. That's how you have to move a veteran playoff level team. I thought the clippers were really good in this series, all things considered, especially with their injury limitations. And the suns just kept cracking them, kept cracking them, kept moving, kept figuring stuff out. That's what makes

them so competitive. It's what makes them, you know, a team that's worthy of getting to the finals ultimately. Yeah. And the eight and thing that's important is that they were getting in the ball. He didn't have perfect post position on the low block. He was probably about eight feet away inside of the paint. And they were like, you know what? We can live with that. We can live with Aiton taking seven footers over gods like Patrick Beverly and Reggie Jackson and even a Baton to a certain extent.

If he can catch the ball that close to the basket, that's a great outcome for him. We don't have to let Perfect be the enemy a good, right? And they did that with Aiton. And I was really impressed by Aiton tonight overall, to be honest with you. Because I thought on offense, he wasn't afraid to assert. himself in defensively. Anytime he was switched out onto shooters or closing out on guys,

those shots were hitting the backboard. Those shots weren't even drawing rim. He was giving incredible contests. And of course, people didn't want to contest, didn't want to challenge him, excuse me, close to the basket. So I thought Aiton was a bear in this game. Yeah, 16 points, 17 rebounds.

The 17 rebounds was the big one because you could definitely see it, especially when Terence Mann got switched on to him. like they were feeding Aiton and they were punishing them inside. Even if he didn't get the shot to go in, he was definitely exerting his physicality on that team. And that is starting to wear and where until the point where like you really can't do anything. I mean, there were so many times where it was Aiton and Jay Crowder and maybe like a Torrey Craig who are going after the rebound. And they were just like kind of tipping it to themselves as

if they were playing against like the middle school team. If you're the high school team, it's just like there's only so much you could do gang rebounding against that where it does start to wear on you. I do think by point stand, though, if Kauai was there, I would love to see how that would have worked out if the balance wouldn't have turned in the Clippers' favor, but certainly the Suns played into the perfect game plan and definitely utilize their advantage in the size realm, like, to great effect. Yeah, they just had more ways to beat the Clippers. And, you know, we really saw that come to fruition late in the game when Chris Paul was just torturing Boogie Cousins from the mid-range. And really, I think

they were confusing a really good defensive team. Like, how many, times were Clippers just totally in the wrong places or giving up wide open jumpers. There was that great drive that Chris had on the baseline, little turnaround where he just completely shed three guys at once. That's the kind of stuff that they can do. I mean, the play out of the time out was the most egregious one where Pat Bev has miscommunication on the zone matchup and Chris Paul is just wide open taking a practice three and he switches it and puts them up 10.

That's after the clippers rallied all the way back. The crowd is getting into it. down to seven. I'm like, oh, wow, hold on. Wait a minute now. Clippers got another comeback in them, and Chris Paul just dagger off of a miscommunication on defense. Yeah. This is a hard team to beat. I mean, the Sons,

they put you in so many vulnerable positions. They don't make a lot of mistakes. Their level of execution is really high. Ultimately, I just thought they were the best prepared team throughout these playoffs. At the same time, though, there was some make or miss league going on tonight. Sure. Of course. The Sons going

10 of 17 in the first half. particularly Sarich and Crowder who, God, the way this dude is kicking his whole leg out, reaching his whole arm out on every single three to make it damn near impossible to contest. And I know a lot of people do this. But his just seemed the most egregious, falling down every time.

Like, this is not hope. But, you know, credit to him, he's one of the most streakyest shooters in the league. And he was hot tonight. And I thought that was huge. That was everything. in the first set. Right there.

Running clinics down in Phoenix. Yeah, he's got his fingerprints all over this team, Jess. You know, Devin Booker didn't have a particularly good game from the floor. He was only one for seven from three. He finished with 22 points. 10 for 26. Well, he took 26 shots in this game. Didn't remember that.

But he was super aggressive in a way that he hadn't been since he broke his nose. I think like that obviously affected him. And I think like having to wear the mask, it seemed like he was wrestling with that ever since. first time it really seemed like he just put his head down. And while he didn't always make the shots, that was having a trickle-down effect. I think that's probably why you saw a lot of Jay Crowder and some of these other guys getting involved. And they have to have that.

You know, especially, you know, it's one thing when Chris Ball has the matchup against the big that he can manipulate. But if he doesn't have that, if they're not switching, if it's just the top of the zone, Devin Booker has to be that guy. And that's where this team can kind of trade off from one thing to the next, forcing the defense to react, forcing them back into their switching, forcing them into their zone. And they just keep knocking down those dominoes.

It's, again, it's really impressive what Phoenix was able to put together in this game. And it really makes me think, you know, I know we talked about the injuries, and they certainly have opened things up for the sons here. But what did we miss? What did we miss about the sons that we didn't peg them as a team that could do this? I mean, what did we miss? I guess I should have predicted injuries to, you know, Jamal Murray, Anthony Davis,

Co-Wy Lenders. Literally 10. That's not counting for young. I should have predicted it. You know, and again, Utah. And look, Chris Paul had a bad injury. The Sunt had some injuries on their own. And that's, you know, we need to acknowledge that.

But just like the level of injuries in this playoffs, I think was hard to predict. I've said it over and over again. I thought going before Jamar Murray got hurt, I thought the Lakers and the Nuggets were the two best teams in the conference. And I thought what Denver was doing was incredible after the trade. And then, you know, slowly but surely these guys just started dropping like flies. And the Suns won the War of Atrition. So I'm not going to take that away from them.

But yeah, I'm not going to sit here and say that I thought the Suns were some, you know, great shakes to make the finals this year either. I won't tell that lie. Rob, you seem like you have something you want to get off your trade. Chesto, did you see something with the Sons that perhaps I hate her like Waz did not? Yeah, let me polish off these pearls of insight here. I'm just been saving this whole time. As, you know, as throughout these playoffs, we've been apologizing to Dandre Aiden. We've been apologizing to campaign. I mean, the stability of that team, I think, is maybe something we underrated a little bit, maybe the importance of their depth, certainly the way their young guys would acclimate to the playoffs.

It's something you can't know until you see it. And I think it was, fair to expect that younger guys would struggle and these guys did not, which is a credit to them. Even in some really tough matchups, even matched up with a Nicola Yokic, DeAndre Aden delivered. So I mean, a lot of credit pretty much up and down this roster

from your Chris Pauls to your campaigns to your Tori Craig's. Lots of guys really stepped up. Yeah, Aitin is definitely the revelation though. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you mentioned Tori Craig though because we should probably talk about Paul George coming off of one of the best performances in recent playoff history.

unfortunately our guy just like ran out of gas and or like the sun just kind of figured him out defensively he only finishes with 29 I mean 21 points nine rebounds to assist but he was six for 15 from the floor one for six from three point land really didn't put his stamp on this game was what did you see from the suns in limiting george in this one I thought they did a good job loading up on him um and shading towards him every time he got his hand on the ball and I don't think he was expecting that level of focus as far as not focused, like, oh, they're focused, but like, they're focused on you, right? Like, I don't think he was ready for that level of scrutiny from the Sons as a team defense. And so his moves were not quick and decisive, right?

Like, it took him a while to figure out how much they were loading up on him. And because of the lack of – and that's what a defense wants to make you do, right? Like, they want to make you think because, like, when you're thinking now, when we get to recover on shooters or rotate to the next guy towards the basketball, kid, you're a hair slow on that, and we can get there on time and have an effect on everything you want to do. So I thought the sons are like, nah, Paul George, you're not doing 40 again tonight. No, no, no, no, no. They're going to have to do something else. It's going to have to be the Pat Beves, the Terrence Man of the World, et cetera, et cetera. I just thought they did a better

job of sending help to whoever he, whoever was guarding him. They made that, those rotations and shades the entire game. it was always going to be tough for Paul George who is a player who feels the game he's kind of like a wait for my spots play in the flow kind of star to Waz's point if you show him a lot of strong side pressure he's not going to drive through you

he's not going to break that down it was always a tough premise when he is your only star on the floor so I really think it's impressive that the clippers got it this far to be honest with you hold on only star on the floor oh sorry I forgot Jackson's Mr. June

was on the floor this evening. I forgot that Reggie Jackson was legit in like the pregame promo right next to Paul George. I mean, right before this, we were talking about Reggie Jackson is one of the like just unprecedented postseason stories and like ever. It's crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy.

Go from a minimum contract getting waived by the Detroit Pistons of All team to a go-to guy for a team that was about to come back from a third straight O2 deficit. That's what an insane run. But one thing I do want to talk about with the Clippers, I did feel like, like in the first half that Pat Beverly's, let's call them antics, uh, were starting to have an effect.

And I was starting to get worried about the suns because he's done this before. He didn't in game two. He has a way of just like turning the game into a tornado and all of a sudden, like you're asking a very young team in the suns, a team that doesn't have a lot of postseason experience to be able to stand up to literal bullying in addition to like all the other things that we've talked about. But they kind of weathered the storm here. Uh, was, are you surprised?

Especially considering that Bev, I think, went to a whole new level. He was like full on Joker in this game. So he had a couple of right to left crossover, get to the rack finishes that I was like, I have never in my entire life seen Pat Bev do this to anybody before. Like something's gotten into this guy. Um, he must have had some strong coffee this morning. Uh, and, you know, at the same time, like, he was. pretty active on defense and he was pushing the pace, although he had a couple of wild turnovers that didn't look good, but I thought he gave them something in the first half for

sure. Like, he was aggressive in looking for a shot in a way that you're not used to Pat Beverly doing, which is probably what I think that was, right? He caught the sons by surprise with his specific level of aggression. But like I said before, Sarich made a couple of threes at the top of the key where, you know, those things don't go in. You know, you know, it's like, all right, things are going to start getting tight here with Sons. And Crowder made some huge, huge, huge three-pointers as well. But yeah, Pat Bev in the first half was, I was like, hmm, this is interesting, man. He certainly came a long way from playing like five minutes a game in that Dallas series.

I mean, I honestly didn't think he was going to be a meaningful part of the rotation, but then you get that energy. And the bargain you strike, as Waz said, is, you know, you have to give up a couple turnovers. He's going to throw some layups, like just off the backboard. that's going to happen. He's going to completely clock a bunch of guys for no reason and get terrible fouls, 70 feet from the basket,

while you're in the bonus. But yeah. Yeah. I mean, but the sun stood the ground there. I think Paul in particular kind of stood up to him. I think he matched fire with fire at a certain point. He just realized he had to outflop him. And then he was on a mission to get either him or bogey out of the game.

And he ultimately succeeded when it came to Pat Beb. I really want to know what he said to Pat Bev in order to get him to kind of fly off the handle there. Any guesses? I had some guesses, but they're not appropriate. Okay. I do want to get to the future of the Los Angeles Clippers here because they're going to be on the precipice

of a pretty interesting offseason going forward. But let's talk about Paul just briefly, like his legacy, because I don't think we got into like the bigger picture here. Chris Paul being in the NBA finals, it's weird to say, but like I know it's significant, but it doesn't feel significant because I already think so highly of Paul and I don't know if a finals really changes much about his legacy for me.

I still think he's one of the best point guards for all time, even if he didn't get this far. Like maybe if he wins a title, I'll start having like bigger picture conversations. But for Rob, for you, do you feel any different about Paul tonight

as you did this morning? I mean, he was already a Hall of Famer. Well, everybody is. So is Reggie Jackson eventually. Future Hall of Fame, Reggie Jackson. I mean, he could be a champion soon, and you're right, that would change things. It's certainly, I mean, just watching,

Chris Paul in this moment, you can see how much it means to him to get to this level. A guy who's just had to beat his head against that wall so many times and to finally break through is very cool to see. I mean, if anything, again, that's kind of the silver lining to all these injuries and these teams that we would expect to be in the conference finals on both sides falling short, is we get to see Chris Paul in the finals. We get to see guys bust through for the first time and get their crack at it, something they've never gotten to compete for before. Listen, Chris Paul was never a Ben Simmons level postseason player, okay? Like the notion that this guy was never good enough to play a significant role,

first or second best player on a championship quality team. To me, if you've ever thought that you just don't know shit about this game of basketball, he's been great forever now, right? And he just, you know, he's just never had, was fortunate enough to put it together in such a way that his team would go to the finals. The Houston versus Golden State was probably the most heartbreaking one because the guy literally killed himself

trying to win that series. He was playing amazing the last two or three games that he played in that series and he ruined his hammy in the process, playing heavy minutes, going extremely hard, one-on-one finishes and scoring

and all of that. Like, the highest level that you can play on the wing Chris Paul has done that, right? He happened to get hurt in that series, that they were in a pretty good position to win. So, no, this doesn't change much about how I personally feel about Chris Paul, because like Rob said, the guy was already a clear-cut Hall of Famer,

and he's probably, to me, the best non-magic Johnson point guard ever. Well, even think about this game, I mean, not only does he have this massive stat line, not only does he have all the theatrics we've already talked about and the validation of getting to beat some of these guys, he's getting picked up full court the entire game by Pad Bev and Terrence Mann and just grinding through him getting into offense still puts up 41 that's a hell of a night for a guy who's fighting through an injury yeah I love how he celebrated because he at one point swore on live TV with Rachel Nichols and you knew that was like him letting

loose I thought I thought Zach Lowe had a really good tweet that like as soon as he knew he was going to the finals he untucked his jersey and that was his version of letting his hair down. But yeah, it's great to see him there. This certainly wasn't to Waz's point. This wasn't a Paul George situation. If you just, like, tuned into basketball the past two years, like, it spoke to how excellent he is and always was that he had some of the most significant moments in the

playoffs where he, I don't want to say choked, but they were definitely failures. Deliors seems appropriate. Yeah. Is that softer than choked? Is failure softer than choked? choked. Yeah. Just came up short.

You just came up short. Yeah, right. But we kind of like look past that and we still call him the point God and we still recognize just like how much brilliance was to his game. And in a lot of ways, like a lot of his postseason failures were the same result of him trying to overmanage situations. Like the OKC one in particular where he was trying to like draw a foul for some reason against Russell Westbrook in the Thunder's backcourt.

I always think about that as the most Chris Paul. moment because that's when he went overboard trying to be Chris Paul. But no, it's great to see him in the finals. If he wins a title, then I'm ready to have some bigger conversations with him. And I look forward to that. I do want to talk about the Clippers because their offseason has just started. Unfortunately, it seems like they're taking it quite poorly. Reggie Jackson is at the podium in Los Angeles.

And he's crying almost like Jordan Mean level tears right now. He seems like he's taking this one particularly. hard. And I guess we should start there because he is among the bigger questions. If you were the Clippers, how far are you going to retain Reggie Jackson? Your let's say second most significant free agent this offseason was. I'm willing to give him Carl Kuzma money. I don't see how he's not deserving of at least that. I'm sure his agents are probably like, No, we need Fred Van Vleet money, but I don't know that I'm willing to do that one. But shoot, borderline started money?

Why not? Why not give him that? I think he earned that in the postseason. And, you know, this team had moments in the – But you know what's crazy? It's rare that they had moments collectively, right? Like, Kauai had moments where he looked like Superman. Paul George had moments where he looked like the guy that everybody.

envisioned when they went crazy when the clip was finally traded for him. Like, wow, you're going to put this guy next to Superman. And then, you know, Reggie Jackson had moments where he looked like a legitimate number three option on a championship aspirant, right? Like, I don't know, you know. So, like, I'm willing to give him two, three years at Kyle Kuzma bread, 13 mil. Yeah, I'll get you 13 mil a year to do what you did this, or bet that you'll do what you did this postseason.

I think the question really is, like, should Reggie Jackson be a starting point guard in the league outside of the Clippers? Like, has he bounced back to the point where if you're a team in need of a point guard, let's just say Orlando, like, would you empower him to be that guy on that sort of team? No, no. You know, I think what he proved in these playoffs is that he can be a really good, if you want him to be a starting point guard, to pair with your kind of elite playmate. making wing.

Like, he's the guy you want spotting up. That's what Reggie Jackson proved is I can get in the playoffs. I can make threes at a high volume at a 42, 43% clip. That's huge. That's a crucial playoff skill to be able to do that and hold up defensively and give you a little, you know, pick and roll handling play. That's really important. I think ultimately he's probably destined to be more of a sixth man type with some

upward mobility. With he's going to pop off for these kinds of games like he's had in these playoffs, that's what you want him to be. But if you needed him to be and you want to be and you want to put him alongside a Luca, a James Hardin, like that type of player, that could be a really comfortable role for him. Yeah, I should mention that the Clippers, I believe, considering how they signed him are going to be, it's complicated in order to bring him back because there's only a certain amount of money that they can give him. And so there is a possibility that a team

just outspends them and they can't really do much about it. I would love to see him in a role like the Lakers have been trying to get for the past two seasons, just like a low rent, Dennis Schroeder, I guess Dennis Schroeder is in that rental price now as well. But just like an energy guard off the bench, you could handle the ball when LeBron sits, who could shoot a little bit, who could drive your offense play a little big and roll. Because rumors are that Schroeder turned down an extension that was in the Van Vleet range, which is four years, 84 million because he felt like he was a hundred, 110 million type of guy, which, no, you're not.

is what Reggie Jackson does, is that worth the mid-level? What are we thinking as far as price range? Because I think he's going to want to break the bank this summer. It's tough. I mean, I would be worried about overpaying him based on postseason performance. But I don't know, man. Like the three-point shooting seems legit. And like any type of shooter is going to get overpaid in this league.

And like I could see, I don't know the Cavs Caps situation off the top of my head. But like a team like that who just like needs a veteran. presence, a guard who could play alongside some of the young guys as they grow older and can just space the floor when he doesn't have the ball. Like, he's an easy plug and play guy. And for that reason, I could see him getting more than maybe we would think. Yeah, I think a mid-level thing would be smart just because he'll appeal to a lot of playoff teams who are in that position to offer it to him.

And so much of it is about not just the shooting, which as we've talked about is really kind of a two or three-year trend now of him being a really high-level shooter. But if we're going to talk about the playoffs as being a space in which you're exposed, for what you can't do. He's not a guy with a lot of obvious weaknesses. He's not really a player you pick on in any way

or exploit. He's going to be pretty solid for you. And then he can stay on the floor and give you 35 minutes when you need him to give you 35 minutes. That's crucial. Yeah. Dallas would be a good spot for him.

If they decide to move on from Tim Hardaway Jr. And they just need like a stopgap sort of guy to space the floor next to you, Luca. I could see that working out. I think that fan base would collapse on itself if Reggie Jackson were the big addition.

After everything they've gone through and all like the failed free agencies passed, if Reggie Jackson is the guy, it's going to get ugly. Yeah, that's why you bring in a Nike executive is to get the guy that the Clippers just signed for the veteran minimum. I mean, I kind of hope that he's made enough money at this point in his career that maybe he'd want to take a discount just to go back to L.A. and to just run it back. Which brings me to my next question. So the Clippers face another big discussion this offseason that is with one Kauai Leonard was if you were Kauai sitting from the bench, being memed by the second by the internet.

What are you thinking right now? Are you thinking to yourself, we were right there. If I was in this game, we would probably be going to a game seven and potentially in the finals. Or are you thinking to yourself, eh,

might be something better else out there for me. I think he's resigning for that super max. I just don't, I just have a hard time believing. And not that I'm throwing, lobbing accusations and tampering and all of that. I'm just saying, I have a hard time believing that, one, for instance, last offseason when they signed Paul George, I have a hard time believing there wasn't an agreement in

place before they sent all of that shit to OKC for him that they weren't going to do an extension with him. I think that was understood. And I think the same thing can be said for Kawhi Leonard. And like, this dude moved heaven and earth to get to California, to get to Los Angeles to get to Southern California specifically, you guys will remember that he lived in San Diego. So I think he's signing for that Super Max. And his body's so fragile, it would be insane not to. Like if you, I mean, not to say that a four years max somewhere else isn't

amazing money to pair with the huge amount of money he's already made in his career. But if you really want to maximize the bread and you have a great understanding about nobody knows his body better than he does, I don't see how he turns down a five-year big deal. That being said, after the first two games against Dallas, I'm like, Kauai had to be thinking, oh, yeah, we traded this fool. We traded Paul George this offseason. I don't know. Has Paul George played himself into not being the guy that you move? Because he is their best asset. That's the good question here. I do think that after they get out of the afterglow of this exciting playoff, that Paul George had these huge moments,

but everything is settled down. Everyone is off to Cabo and sipping Mai Ties and the front office gathers together and they think to themselves. You know what? Paul George is good, but is he Damien Lillard good? Heineken believes you could twist any situation

into something positive. You just need a fresh take. So here are some fresh takes from the Western Conference finals. So the Clippers just lost in six games to the Phoenix Suns. And Paul George really, acquitted himself while this postseason. But here's my fresh take. I think that the Clippers

should still explore trading him. I think specifically they should be trying to work a trade for Damian Lillard and giving Lillard the opportunity to have one more goodbye to Paul George here. Was, what do you think about that trade? Paul George for Damian Lillard. I think that would be a dream for the Clippers. And I think it would be a pretty good haul for Portland. I don't know. If Dane forces his way out of Portland. I'm assuming that he has some say in his next destination. And I guess it would come down to, does he see the Clippers as a desirable destination?

Only time will tell. Right. Rob, Paul George for Dame? I think it all depends on if you're Portland and you want to keep winning. Paul George is a pretty good piece to keep doing that. Pair him with what you got. Fill out the rest of your roster. Still a pretty good team.

Still probably a playoff caliber team. Not a bad landing spot when you're talking about. potential returns for Dame. Right. I think that is the type of cutthroat move that Kauai Leonard in particular would be a fan of. And he would also be a fan of how fresh this take was. So get out there and

find your own fresh takes. Grab a pack of Heineken from your local retailer or have one delivered right to your door. Must be 21 years of age to purchase. Cheers, y'all. Cheers, y'all. Like that. Gets me every time. Damien Lillard for Chris Paul?

Or excuse me, for Paul George. you got my balls missed up. I don't know. Like, let's say that's on the table, Rob. Are you pulling the trigger on that? If you're the clippers? If I'm the clippers. I'd feel pretty good about this team still.

I mean, you were just trying to sell us on the fact that they'd be going to the NBA finals if Kauai was healthy. And I'm supposed to bail on that? I'm the host here, man. I got to, I got to play both sides. Got to embrace the bait. No, so here I think is what a key. Here's what I think it comes down to. I mean, Lillard is probably on a.

another stratosphere, just in terms of like superstardom and big moments, you know, you could kind of count on him there. And I think he would maybe be, if we were going into the postseason, we would say he would be a better fit, simply because the clippers tend to need a ball handler point guard type to get people more involved. That has always been the sore spot to the point when, uh, where before they installed Reggie Jackson in the starting lineup before game three of that Dallas series, I was like, oh no, this is it. This is ultimately what's going to fell them. Now, that they've gone through this postseason though like i start to wonder like can paul george and quai linder not do enough of that type of stuff that they can like just satisfy that itch and fill that

void just collectively and the other part about this is like defensively george even though he fell off this postseason how much that was fatigue how much of that is just like who he is now as a player and what his offensive burden is going to be even with kai there like he at the very least is going to give you the possibility of just absolute lockdown defense and i wouldn't say he's better than Lillard, but I wonder if he is better for the Clippers, and a Clipper scene specifically with Kauai is your best player. Well, I will say this about Paul George and the idea of trading him. You know, if you're looking at Damian Lillard,

if you're looking at any other kind of big package, Paul George is the type of player that almost no other team can offer because he's a star player with three full seasons left under contract at least. And the finances are a little weird because his extension hasn't kicked in yet, but to get that kind of talent locked in, I don't know that the Blazers are going to get many offers like that. Yeah, but I also think there's a Dame component to this. Does Dame want to play for the Clippers?

You know, it seems like if he's going to be getting the hell up out of Portland, that he might want to do something different than the B team in L.A., right? And that's not, I'm not trying to denigrate what y'all do, Clippers, but it's just reality, like, a guy. who's that attuned to his self-image and everything that he puts out there in the public? Like, he's aware of brand awareness and all of that stuff. Like, Dame Lillard is super in tune to that stuff. So who knows if Dame Lillard wants the Clippers?

Although I think Portland, it would seem to me that that would be the best type of thing that you could get for Dane, right? Especially a team that doesn't want to do the strip it down, rebuild it, type of thing. If you're the guy that's been very loyal to you for that long comes to come to you and says, hey, I want to get the hell up out of here. Hey, man, Paul George would be a very nice addition to anybody's team, you know? It would also just be kind of hilarious if after all the back and forth between those two guys, they end up getting traded for each other. If Dame has to comprehend the fact that I am on the level of Paul George and those tradable for him, that'd be a good moment.

Didn't Damien Lillard put like, have like special edition shoes dedicated to his buzzer beater against O KC that he wore against O KC's.

As he should. I mean, that's a little bit much. Especially because like no one on that team even was like alive during that series. But yeah, good God.

I completely forgot about that. That is like the ultimate like win of an argument there. We'll see how that plays out. So things have definitely changed since the last time we were talking about them. We got some news today about Juanis Ante de Kumpo. Looks like it wasn't as serious as we might have feared last night. He's listed as doubtful and there's no structural damage to his right knee according to ESPN.

Well, the specifics, I love reading newsers, especially off of breaking news and especially off of breaking news injuries. The ligaments in a tetacupumpo's knee are sound. And a timetable for his return is unclear. sources told ESPN their sound, no need to worry. So most likely not getting Trey versus Janus yet again next game, was how are you feeling about the bucks right now? Do you have any confidence that they could turn this around without Janus? It's, to me, they're a better, they should be better than the Hawks are

without their superstar, right? Like you take Janus out and you take Trey Young out, they should be better. just based off of how much Drew Holiday and Chris Middleton get paid. Like, you guys get paid way more than anybody left on the Hawks right now. Right? Like, to me, that should be meaningful as far as on paper, how we should perceive this matchup. But I certainly don't feel that way.

You know what I'm saying? Like, watching the Hawks, like, the amount of confidence that they seem to always play with, they seem to have a belief in one another that's just, just makes no sense because they've never achieved a single thing as a unit. And this is a team that basically came together this season for the first time ever. I just like the juju of the Hawks better than Milwaukee's, right? And so I like the Hawks if things stand as they are. Now, a Gympi Janus comes in there.

I just think so much of Janus as far as an athlete and as far as a, you know, motor type of guy. I think he'll power through an injury and be very, very, you know, additive to what they do. I don't think he's going to go out there because there were times like, for instance, when Hardin' play in during the Brooklyn series where he was just bad. Like, he couldn't do anything for them. I don't think that would be the case with a Janus return. So I think if Janus comes back, Gimpy, they're fine. But if Janus is out, the Hawks were cooking them with Janus healthy in the game and no tray yesterday. I don't know how you think the Milwaukee Bucks win this series without Yonis coming back.

Yeah, it's the difference between having a team full of role players who can kind of play off of your best player and guys who can survive without him. And that's really what it is right now. The Bucks are just not in a position to score enough points without Yonis. They can't do it. They would have to dramatically restructure their offense or I guess like funnel 50 possessions through Thanasis onto Dacompo in the next game and hope he can be Yonis. I don't know. I don't know what the solve rate is there. the Hawks have become that kind of team.

This was a group we used to talk about as like, oh my God, how are they going to win the minutes without Trey Young? That didn't look like a problem in this last game at all. Lou Williams showed up in a huge way, was so big for them as a playmaker. They're getting just enough from Kevin Herder in terms of creation.

They're finding, again, little bits and pieces all have been down the rotation. That's a complete-ass team. By the way, I got the message, y'all. Y'all, hit me on the internet. It's red velvet. Just for the record, it's red velvet. That's his name.

We're no longer allowed to use the G word to describe him either. That's a slur. I'm told by Chris Ryan specifically across the pond. I guess across the pond, we're no longer using the G word to describe redhead. So shout to Red Velvet. We're a global company now at Spotify. To watch ourselves in many languages. Well, I think the blueprint without Janus is what they did in last year's postseason.

in the games he went down against the Miami Heat, which is the very tactically advanced blueprint of let Chris Middleton shoot 50 shots this game. Let him do whatever he wants. If he wants the ISO every time down the court, who cares? Because he's the only one who's probably going to have to lead us to this game. Rob, this is a big test for you, I think, personally. For me, probably. Yeah.

They're not throwing me out there. Do you think your guy, Christopher, Duchess, The third can do this. If I do this, you mean beat the Hawks under these circumstances? I don't really think so. I don't think his game is quite acclimated to that. I think they need another huge Drew game, to be honest with you. That's been kind of their bellwether in some of these like take or leave type of situations.

If they can get another 30, 32 point game from Drew based on power drives and some good threes, that's going to go a long way. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to feature Brooke Lopez a little bit more just because they don't have a lot of other options. They got to. Yeah, because when you look up and down the Bucks roster, I'm not sure where else the shots are coming from. You're not funneling through PJ Tucker to get more points.

So it's got to go somewhere. Brooke is a natural point for that. And so is Bobby Portis. I think one of the things the Bucks did really well in the last game is their bigs were running right to the rim and transition and just standing right in front of the rim and they were able to get some passes over the top to them. If they can get enough of that kind of transition stuff going, maybe fake some offense, maybe they have something going.

but putting everything on Chris Middleton's shoulders is not really the way to do it. What has been the strongest trait of this buck's offense all postseason? They've been unreliable as all hell. And now you lose your best offensive player. Yikes. Big yikes.

So we're saying that the Hawks are going to go to the NBA finals. Give me the Hawks. Give me the Hawks. Well, it depends on when Yannis comes back. If he comes back. It's tough. There isn't a lot of time.

I think he's coming back. You think he's going to come back, your PhD and knee ligaments? I think he'll be back for game six to save these guys. There's going to be a whole, they're going to get, they're going to lose game five, and he's going to come back to game six to smoke them.

And, you know, it's going to be the emotional game seven, blah, blah, blah, crown them for beating the Trey Younglist Hawks. I mean, I don't know. I know I'm supposed to be providing some level of enthusiasm. But this is, I mean, both of them are down.

Like the two best players left in the Eastern Conference. Basically, the two best players throughout the Eastern Conference playoffs this year, aside from KD, of course, are gone. You know, like, it's tough. And I love Bogie. I love Lou Will. You know, I thought Cam Reddish gave them a little bit of extra, just something, like just some juice, right?

Some activity. But damn. Let me ask you guys this. If you're the Sons and now you're sitting back and watching this game tomorrow night, who are you rooting for? Who do you want to see in this next round? Rob, what do you think?

Whoever's healthiest. Whoever can put their star on the floor in the NBA finals, that's who I want to see. So you personally want to see this, but if you were the Sons, do you want the wounded books? Oh, sorry. I mean, if I were,

I'm trying to think of who they would really match up with better. I don't think the Sons. I want the Hawks. I want the Hawks if I'm the Sons. I definitely want the Hawks. mainly because just like if Janice comes back and he's not his whole self

sure he's doing a little bit of less of the probably to transition a little bit less of the one-on-ones but he's making an impact he's going to impact a series that he plays in no matter what if Tray Young comes back and he can't dribble past people

because his foot he has a bump foot that's it that's that's that's way and bam-bent that's the entirety of his contribution to the team is dribbling past guys, finding open people, reading the defense, but that's all predicated on his ability

to break people down with his dribble, his quickness, his instincts, and his speed. If he don't got that, he ain't got nothing. He's got, you know, he got to fold them. Yeah, for a guy whose power comes from the ability to change directions, taking out his ankle and his foot in that way is just brutal. There's no coming back from that until you're fully healthy.

Right. Shout to you, Vance Williams in our chat who suggests that Waz just wants that lemon pepper. Hey, listen. Listen, let me tell you something. If the Atlanta Hawks make the NBA finals, I will be in attendance for at least two games. Just know that. One way or another barrier. You'll be watching.

Maybe not necessarily from the arena. But there will be a screen on somewhere where you can watch, perhaps, in a distance, while engaging in some other activities. All right, that is it for us. We will be back next week. Same time, same place. Hopefully to talk about some NBA finals action for Rob, for Waz, for Sasha Ashall on production, for Pat Maldowney, walking us through the technology of Spotify Green Room. We'll see it.