The Ringer NBA Show - The Questionable Giannis Ejection, LeBron’s Miami Heat Legacy, and the 76ers’ Early Success Without Harden | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

Logan and Raja react to Giannis Antetokounmpo’s ejection midway through the third quarter against the Detroit Pistons, the respect that refs give role players as opposed to stars, and stare-down technical fouls (1:05). Along the way, they discuss LeBron James’s comments on his tenure with the Miami Heat and whether his legacy would have been similarly dominant if he'd gone somewhere else (11:09). Next, the guys talk about how the Philadelphia 76ers have won six straight games since the season opener and how the team has been able to flourish without the distractions that accompanied James Harden’s trade request (32:08). Later, they talk about Anthony Edwards’s next potential leap this season and how he's continuing to develop into an NBA superstar for the Minnesota Timberwolves (44:43). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (50:28). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guy Pasha Gigi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Yeah.

What's popping? Grohwin's. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there, Thursday crew. Roger came into the prepod meeting on 15. We had an outline, and we might get to it. I don't know. But Roger had some things. First of all, I'm going to get Roger riled up really quickly.

He brought it up, but I'm just going to just, we're here. So, Yonisadad de Kumbok, it's a technical foul and an ejection. He goes in, goes into the lane. he does he dunk on on bruntzano steward he dunks on isa steward stands stands stands it looks at him upstairs him down and gets a tech his second tech of the game gets ejected he sits on the one of the critiques i have about his ejection aside from what we're going to talk about is that he sat down on court side but he didn't he wasn't he wasn't um he didn't own it he didn't own it he didn't sit there he i didn't believe that he was going to sit there and really call

a ruckus and he got his ass up after like 30 seconds. I wanted him to sit his ass down there for at least a good seven, eight minutes. Am I wrong? I don't, that's my only critique. Yeah, I would have liked that.

On his part of the ejection. But, Raja, you saw the play. You brought it up this morning. What are, what are your thoughts? Let's get to it. You know,

I know what everyone thinks I'm going to do, right? What movie? What movie is that from? You built a bit of a reputation. Everybody, everybody thinks somebody coming here and flip out and, and start losing my shit about, um,

about these refs, and I want to, but let me just speak in a relatively even tone and keep this measured and just say, no one comes to the games to not see Janus play unless it's something absolutely egregious that you almost can't help but toss him out of the game for. Yeah, did he stare down Isaiah Stewart? Sure. Is that a pretty emotional play considering all that kind of took place leading up to that? 100. Could a ref swallow the whistle and just walk the other way and let play going? You're damn right they could. Why the hell you got to be inserting yourself in that shit?

Getting the main ticket kicked out of the game. Wait. And here's what bothered me the most, damn it. Here's what bothered me the most. Did you see the affect on his face as he walked away? As Janus in utter disbelief is walking behind him like, yo, what's going on? My man was like his face was on one as if it meant more to him than just, the little interaction that took place with Isaiah Stewart.

If you can dig what I'm saying. Like, yeah, I kicked that fucker out. Yeah, I kicked you out. Don't even walk over here. Like, that's what bothers me. Now, Roger, when I saw this, and I didn't know we were going to talk about this, but in any event that we were going to talk about, I wanted to bring this up to you.

And it's time for Lolo to play devil's advocate. It's time for me to do it. And with that being said, one of the things that I thought about was, Raja complained so much about the lack of respect that non-stars get that role players don't get. And Isaiah Stewart is one of those fucking take your lunch pail to work type players. One of the ones that you respect. One of the ones that has got it out of the mud, right? And you always complain.

You get up on these real ones airwaves. You complain about the lack of respect that these guys get specific. Specifically from the refs, Raja, specifically from the refs. Have you not? Did you not go through a whole tangent even during your time with Kobe during the back stretch, right? And I'm not saying that I'm on this side. But I do need to bring it up. It seems like role players are getting a little bit more benefit of the doubt.

Is it you feeling like, yo, fuck that because we're the reps or the ops. Like where are you feeling? Well, let's work our way through this whole, you know, devil's advocate position that you've, that you've taken. first of all, I'm not on here complaining that role players don't get the same calls as star players. I'm merely telling you what's happening. Like, I understood my role. Like, did it feel great all the time? No, but I clearly understood, you know, who I was on the script.

Like, I'm an extra. Like, at best, a character actor. I'm not getting the same type of treatment, you know, as the headliner. I get that. So I'm not really complaining about it. I'm just illustrating that it's a real thing. Secondly, that's not like. a call that a role player or someone who gets it out of the mud wants to get, getting someone

kicked out of the game for something like that. That's not the call that I want to be evened out if possible. The one I want to be evened out is when I'm going to the rack, you know, and I'm trying to work my way in through three people. And if someone breathes on me the wrong way, I'd like to shoot free throws too. That's the call we want. We ain't trying to get nobody kicked out of the game for a little ice grill after a dunk. So I would argue that that even Isaiah Stewart in that moment as a competitor, like you're not trying to get anybody kicked out of the game. And maybe these new cats are different because I'm going to keep it a buck.

I'm on here now, you know, like just all off script and straight off the dome. But I've seen some of them now and it's a beef with me when they try to like flop and get somebody an intentional foul. Like I'm never trying to get anybody an intentional or flagrant that. You never flopped over rah-rah? No, no, no, listen to me. Here are the difference, bro, because you're not hearing the nuances. There's a difference between flopping, like, on a charge or flopping on, like, you know,

something like that to sell a call versus flopping in a way that's going to get someone ejected from the game because you're down there acting like you got half your head knocked off on a foul going to the rim. Like, I never understood that. Like, when we played, we weren't trying to get you kicked out of the game. Yeah. Like, and I hate to be the old when we played. but I just did it.

Like, I wasn't trying to get any of my opponents necessarily kicked out for some shit they didn't do. Now, if they crossed the line, the same way up I crossed the line. And we got to go, guess what? We got to go. But I don't think Isaiah Stewart, even him, if you ask, should Janus have been kicked out for that? He'd have been like, nah, man, we were in the middle of a good one. Like, let's, you know, let's shoot a, let's shoot a fair one. I didn't see the game, but I saw it on like countdown last night and I saw the whole play.

And I would just, that would just be like, come. on, dude. Like, even if I'm watching the game on league pass or something, it's like, I literally came here to see Janus and Dame figure it out. Like, calm down. Question for you, though. Yep. If you're Janus, and I know you're petty, you're Janus, what are you doing and how long are you sitting on that, on that court side? How long are you sitting there? In Janus's position, in Janus's position, right? Again, not as the extra in the movie, but as the clear headliner of the movie and maybe the guy running. Samuel Jackson do the right thing. Samuel Jackson and like shaft. And Denzel, yeah, I would have sat over there until security came. Who are all your friends anyway? Would have just been like, all right, bro. Come on. They'd have been like, Raj.

come on, man. You got to go. And I'd be like, no, I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. Wolf of Wall Street. I'm not leaving. I don't fucking go on the door. I'm not going to work.

I'm not. Because this is ridiculous. But, you know, look, I get it. Some people feel me on the refs. Some people are like, think I'm ridiculous about the refs. it's just this again. People work too damn hard. They work too hard to go out there and try to put on and,

and, you know, play in the NBA to get kicked out for shit like that. Somebody from the 401 for spent hard-earned money, probably paid for these tickets in advance to bring their little homie there. To see Yannis get kicked out. To see Yonis to get kicked out. And it's not even like Yonah's getting kicked out. It's just a BS on the fact that why you got kicked out. He did some, if he smacked the shit out of a reverie, if he did some wild shit, yeah, send his ass out.

Send him out. No one's condoning any of that, man. Like, no one, look, there was a play in Utah. I don't know what I was on, man, but it was, it was, I think it was Violet Palmer. Like, she had missed a call a few plays before. I was pissed, and I went in and laid the ball in, and it was like right at the horn. I thought, like, it was before the horn. In retrospect, it was after the horn, and she called the shot no good.

As it came down through the net, I punted that shit up into, like, the second. bro, guess what? Guess what, Logan? I gotta go. Aughty Violet kicked your ass out. And guess what? I understood I had to go. So no one's sitting here saying people can't get kicked out.

It's what you kick them out for, right? Like, if you can walk away, Violet couldn't walk away from that. I just made a spectacle and a mockery of this whole shit. I got to go. But Janus didn't do that. Like, come on, bro. Come on, let's have a little bit of like,

like, you kind of sense. What do you feel about, like, the overall stare down though thing right like stare down gets you ejector gets you a tech not ejection get you a tech like what do you feel about that is that is that like is that whack is that good is or is it more nuanced than that like should we have a little bit more nuance when we think about the stare down tech i understand why they don't want it they think it'll lead to fights right like they think stare down leads to run in your mouth leads to this and now we're now we're fighting and it the last thing we can want is is to go back to the days where people are brawling and spilling into

stands and stuff like that. So I understand that. But I think, again, you've got to kind of, and here's why I think playing the game or having played at a high level helps. I don't think not having played at a high level precludes you from doing a good job as a ref. Don't get me wrong. But I think if you played and you can put yourself in that situation, you could say, hey, would that have highly offended me? Did he stare at me long enough to highly offend me? And if you can put yourself in those shoes, you could say, nah, that shit was, I mean, he stared at me a little bit, but I'm not tripping off of that. Keep playing. But when you've never done that, and you're around a bunch of giants, and you're looking at that shit, and you're like, hey, man, like, I don't know, attack him up, get him out of here.

Like, I just, I don't, I don't, so I think it helps to have a little bit of feel, you know, and I would bet you, I would bet you that some of the refs that have played basketball at some level, like competitively, because there's some college players in there, and there's some dudes, like one of my college teammates is an NBA ref. I think dudes like that would have a little bit more leeway in that situation, I would bet. Let's go from one generational start to another. Another thing Roger did. Roger just basically took the rundown and was like, it's mine now. My bad, bro. My bad, bro. My bad, bro. So one of the things that Rai Ra brought up in the pre-pod that I was like, let's let's dig into this.

Let's talk through it. LeBron James had some comments, basically saying that if he'd have the same career, whether he went to Miami or not, and proceeded to lose two games in a row, which is very poetic for this conversation that we're about to have. Don't cheat the game and it won't cheat you.

There's a lot to dissect on this subject. One of the things is that I'm just going to throw my opinion out. I'm curious to see you. I don't, I get what he's saying. I get the, the ego that comes with being LeBron James and feeling like you are going to be great regardless of the circumstances. And to his credit, by and large, that has been true. He has been great despite his circumstance. That is a life thing for LeBron.

However, comma, but the lessons that he learned in Miami on how to run a team, and how to run an organization is kind of makes him who he is right now. I don't believe that I just think it's the ego talking, Roger. I think that it's the ego getting ahead of itself a little bit too much dip on the chip. Not quite that the chip has disappeared, Ra,

but there's a little bit, you know, it's just, it's not enough there. It's not enough, not a great ratio. The ratio is not there. Not a great dip. What did you think, Ra? Yeah, yeah. I could see where you're coming from

with the dip on the chip. I think a couple of things can be true in this conversation. Do I think that's kind of reckless to say that, yes, I do. I think it's slightly reckless because it was a huge part of your career. I mean, you know, the MVP's, the finals MVP's, the championships, to the point you just made, you know, the culture that was, that was, let's, let's, let's, here's what bothered me about the conversation yesterday. It was either like, give the Miami heat their flowers, like, as, if Miami made LeBron. That's where I took exception, right? Because the Miami heat culture was great, but LeBron was a huge part of that. And while he did learn how to win, they weren't winning

championships like right before he got there. So like they were, it bothered me because it was discounting what LeBron meant to the heat and making it sound as if without the heat, he wouldn't be anything. See, I don't, I don't see it necessarily just like that. I think the heat and that part of his career is a huge part of his legacy, right? And, and, and it's, you know, and it's, you know, should be respected by him, right? I don't think he has to live in a space where he wouldn't be in the goat conversation without the fucking heat. Like, do you know what I'm?

Like, as if the heat made him, but it certainly helped. And I don't think, you know, and this is where I think he probably wanted to go and Willie didn't articulate it in the best way possible was that, like, if he didn't go for the heat, he was already on the trajectory, at least in terms of skill and whatever, to win championships in another good organization that might not have been the heat. So, you know, I think that's a little probably a bit more where he wanted to go with what he was saying. Like, look, yeah, the heat was dope. But like, I could have taken these talents to another great organization and still won championships.

Yeah. to Chicago. I can't say that he wouldn't have. Can you dig what I'm saying? So like I kind of got mixed emotions. I don't think it's really completely respectful of LeBron to discount his time there. Although on the flip side, you know, you ain't going to convince me that the heat made fucking LeBron James. Like we're not going to do that.

I would just say it's just a case of that they needed each other, man, right? Like they, that's fine and that's okay. And I've always said this like LeBron is for the streets, right? He's one of those guys that hasn't like tethered himself into an organization or tethered himself to anybody but like his inner circle. He's for the streets. He's been for the streets. All right. Brian is it for.

Okay. It's for everybody. But one of the things that is an underlayer to this is LeBron's relationship to the heat. And his relationship that has been evolved with Pat Riley, we've known just how we left under those circumstances. was a bit murky. And the thing about the thing that's the difference between LeBron and a lot of other guys with the heat. And now LeBron is a big part of heat culture.

He is stamped whenever you have a heat culture on the court, he is a part of that. But the big part of heat culture that he was not a part of is the fact that he didn't stay and build it long term. He was somebody that left. And there are a lot of reasons for that. But there's also going to be a lot of residual stuff. And I see LeBron right now, and this is just an observation, right? He goes hard for these organizations that he may have won championships for,

but he is not etched into the fabric in the way that he thinks he is. And I think there's a bit of an overcompensation to that of like, yeah, I am part of this. But like, no, LeBron, you did have one foot in and one foot out for the last. You had your reasons, but you can't have your cake and eat it too, specifically his relationship with Miami. Like, you did a great job there. but you didn't do all the things, in my opinion, and I'm sure that this is opinion shared

for a lot of people in that front office. You didn't finish the job with us. So it's a little murky how you kind of like, you got to kind of chill on how you like talk about us. And I do feel that there's always, there's always going to be a tension between, and you're in Miami, so I want to get your opinion on it.

There is always going to be a tension between the heat and LeBron because of that. They're going to always give each other their flowers, but there's always going to be a little like, I don't know. I think that's fair and well played on your part. I think it's a really good explanation of the dynamic there. You know, their culture is one of like, you know, family, longevity.

You know, you see Udana's come up through it. And, you know, now he's in some VP role or something like that. You've seen Alonzo morning. Now, guys have left, like D-Wa, but late in the career. And then they wind up coming back in some capacity, you know what I mean? And identifying as a member of the he. heat. And yeah, I do think like there are people within that organization that if you really asked them and got a real true answer, you know, they were, they were, they feel some kind of

way about that. And the time that they had together was great. But I think they feel some kind of way about that. So I think, I think you're right. And it's going to be interesting. Like, who does LeBron belong to? It's a really crude way to put it. But who does he belong to when it's all said and done? Like, who is he? Aside from possibly the goat, but as a, as a team, like, who identify, is he, is he, the Miami Heats? Is he, is he the Lakers? Is he the calves? Probably the calves, right? I would assume the calves, but it's still, even with the calves, it's murky. It is. It's a really weird thing for a dude like that. Yeah. You know, like, like, you know, and so that's, that's an interesting thing. I don't think it really bothers him necessarily.

I would say this, you know, when I played, and it's probably poor, it's poor to draw this comparison, but, but it's the only thing I have to work with. Like, when I played, I didn't think about that a lot. Like, you know, the benefit of being in one organization for a long time, like post career in terms of, you know, they identify with me. I'm theirs. Like, I'm in that community. I live here. You know, I didn't, I didn't see that. I was just bouncing around trying to find, you know, a good fit as a player and financially and shit like that. But when I got done, I was like, man, it would have been cool to say I played for the sons for seven or eight years and and be a part of that community and stuff like that.

So, you know, it's only after guys play sometimes that they realize either A, yeah, that was dope because now I'm a son for life or a cav for life or B, man, I should have maybe given that a little bit more thought because I really don't identify with anyone necessarily. I have a point before I have a question for you. I want to say this. You are, you play for a lot of organizations. You are a Phoenix Sun. I know this because, you know, whenever.

I go to Phoenix, it's all Raja. You know, I always get like, oh, what's the little Raja? And I just think, and this is my observation and what I just know about the league and things like that. Like, the difference between the sons and an organization like the Heat or somebody else, there was, it was the dysfunction. And there was so much turnover and things like that.

I am curious to see how your relationship is with the sons with the new ownership. Just the stuff that I've seen with them in the new Ring of Honor, bringing, you know, Dan Marley back, bringing Charles Barkley back and Steve Nash back for the Ring of Honor ceremony. And then they're going to, they're going to honor tricks. They're going to honor Amari, just all these guys. I am very curious to see just, and I think you're going back for one of those. I'm not sure. But like, well, first of all, Matt and company have done a great job of reaching out to former sons players and including us and inviting us out to stuff. Like there been some things that I haven't been able to attend because of, you know, family life and, and

different things that I have going on. But, but the reality is, and they are first class in terms of including some of us and stuff going on. And yeah, Tricks told me about his ring of honor and, and I'm definitely going to try to make it out there for that. And I do, I guess, for the most part, like there are two teams that I identify with most of the teams that I had the longest tenure with, right? Like, it would be the sons and the jazz because, you know, I, it's where I, quite frankly, probably had the most success as a player, and I was able to be a part of their community for extended period of time.

We had homes there. A little bit of the Sixers, too. You did go to the Finals with. I know it was very short, but I mean, damn. Like, people know you from the Sixers. It was a short run. I was young.

I mean, it's always going to hold a place in my heart. But I think if you said, hey, man, of the teams that you played for, who would you say, would, like, you would identify as being, you know, like a something for life or something for life, it would probably be the jazz and the sons.

I had homes there. Like, I had children there. Like, I was a part of their community. Do you know what I mean? I dropped kids off at schools. You know, things like that. And so then you become part of their community. I want to get back to LeBron really quickly

before we get out of this segment. You talked about, like, LeBron, and we talked about just like LeBron, like, using Miami and using it's a bad word. But taking the lessons that you learn from Miami, me in terms of like team building and building and functioning organization and taking it to other places. How many, how did you see that when, because you were there his, your only year in Cleveland

was his first year back? Sure. How did you see that influence being implemented into his first year in Cleveland when he came back in the 14, 15th season? So that's an interesting question because I didn't have a lot of experience with him prior to going to the heat, right? So I didn't know what his SOP was like in terms of. you know, being around the building and, and just basic leadership qualities prior to going to the heat.

But when he came back, you know, to the Cavs and I was there, it wasn't just LeBron, right? Mike Miller came with him. James Jones came with him. So there were multiple cats in there that had just gone through those finals runs and there were huge parts of it that understood. you know, the way it needed to work. And so I think, you know, some of the things that I saw from LeBron A was, and I talk about this all the time, LeBron was there and working before anyone else was there and working. And on days when no one else was there and working. And because of my job in the front office, I was always there. So if it was a day off and the players didn't come in, like obviously I would know, you know, who was in their lifting. It would be LeBron and some other folks. But like he just set a standard with how he worked, you know, in his attention to detail.

I saw a commitment to building a family type of atmosphere. Because you were also there like really like a little pre-Lebron in Cleveland, right? Like a few months. Like you could see the difference night and day, right? Absolutely. I started consulting with them prior to that, prior to LeBron coming back. And I did see it at the end, you know, with Mike Brown and, you know, and Kyrie and those guys. And it was, you know, that probably was unfair to all of them because I think at that point, everybody was a little checked out. But, you know, LeBron came in and it became, you know, we're going to move together. Like, on the road, you know, I'm coming back from a dinner.

I'm on the phone with David Griffin, you know, letting Griff know how practice went and what I talked to David Blad about and giving him like a rundown on where everybody's at. And I hear some commotion out in like the, you know, like say the hotel like courtyard or whatever. And I'm like, hold on, Griff, let me see what's going on over there. And it's LeBron and the rest of the team out there, you know, eating with a few bottles of wine, just talking and hanging out, doing things that bond the team and keep people connected. Do you know what I mean?

Like breakfasts were like that at, you know, at hotels. Like there was a lot more community. And I think that I had a huge part to do with LeBron. And quite frankly, you know, David Griffin and company as a front office were echoing that too, right? So, you know, I saw him with that. Accountability. Like, LeBron was never afraid.

He's not a guy that's always yelling and raising his voice and in someone's face, but certainly 100% willing to do it when need be. And so it doesn't lose its effect because when he's talking to you, like, there's a reason he's talking to you. Do you know what I mean? And so those are just some of the things that I saw, but I don't think there are any different or, it's not like a proprietary. thing to the heat. That's what that's what good teams and championship organizations do. That's the

culture that everyone's seeking to try to develop. It's just interesting because you caught him at a time when like he was kind of coming into his age as an adult, right? Like where in Cleveland, he was kind of developing that his first thing in Cleveland. And I think like to bring it back to Miami, it just seems like they were just, they met each other at the right moment, right? Where they Like, that's why I always said they needed each other. Like, Miami needed his talent to get over the hum. And I think he kind of just needed that, that he calls it a college experience. And I totally get that.

I could totally get that. You with your homies and you're also just learning different, just lessons throughout the, throughout the way, right? Like, I could see that. It's funny that you talk about just the wine and like the hangouts because, and you also, It made me think as soon as you said that, that team meetings aren't in concrete rooms. They are in restaurants with wine and food. And now that's how stuff gets resolved.

If it, you know, that's how stuff gets handled. How important is that? We didn't talk about that a lot. And I know this is just a quick aside. But like, how important is just that as opposed to like we don't, because my, my purview, and I'm thinking about the Chicago thing, right? I'm thinking about like the team meeting. after one game. It's like, I don't even know you like that.

Talking to players right there, we're going to have like a team meeting. I don't even know you guys like that. What is the difference between the two types of approaches? Huge. And I was really blessed, right? Because I played on, for the most part, you know, either good teams or well-run organizations where, you know, most of the teams I played on, I experienced that. you know, I came right into Philly and, you know, Eric Snow would have me over to his crib on a holiday because he knew I was there solo

and I didn't have family or, you know, Aaron McKee, if something was going on, would have me with him. DeKembe would have me and some of the other young players out to dinner on the road teaching us what was going on or buying us suits and stuff like that. Like I had a bunch of people do that and just kind of, you know, open up their worlds to us, which made us feel part of their family. Do you know what I mean? Like in Dallas, it was the same way.

Guys would just be doing things together and including wives and significant others and, you know, family. And so you become family. When you share your family and you open your home, you become family. Phoenix was probably my best situation like that. I mean, we rolled as a group of, I mean, I look through pictures every now and again, man, and look at like New Year's Eve stuff and Christmas stuff. And, you know, before I had kids, Steve Nash's little girls were like who I spent Christmases with.

Do you know what I mean? Like, my wife and I were there with Steve and his wife and the girls. Or like Brian Grant, I talked to his son Elijah the other day on Instagram. Like, those were our, that's what made Cindy and I want to be parents, being around all of them and rolling in groups of 20 watching older couples in the NBA and how they navigated it and, you know, we became family. You know what I mean? Utah the same. Utah was interesting. I know this wasn't my story time, but I'll turn it into this. When I got to Utah, all their older guys had left. Like, Stock had just retired and Carl Malone was on the jazz. So there was this void of leadership. And in that void, like, we kind of collectively as a group of young people that were either just newly married or thinking about getting married. We're all out there together trying to find our way. So we just like closed ranks and we did a lot of stuff together. Do you know what I mean? Like we just moved together. And so, again, we weren't great. We missed a place. playoffs, but we were family. Now, I've been in other situations like Charlotte when I first got there.

A bunch of young players, not a ton of locker room leadership where I didn't hang out with a lot of dudes. Like, we didn't do a lot of stuff together. But as more people started coming into that organization that had been in winning environments, guess what started to happen, Logan? Start winning. Start coming together. I mean, I wasn't there for the majority of the winning, but I was there for the start of the build, which was, hey, man, we're going out. Like, listen, we're going to dinner. seven of us. We're all going out. Like nobody cares who pays. We're going to throw our card in a, in a hat and we'll play like roulette. Yeah. Because if I get it this time, you know, you'll get it next time. We're not tripping off of none of that. And so that's how it starts to build, you know,

and those are, that's when, that's when you look across, you know, the court and you say, you know what, man, I'll give up three to four points tonight because, because Logan's got to, Logan's got to eat or he got better shot than me. Like, that's how you get, that's how you get any little bit of selfishness out of your blood and you want to do for somebody. That's what's up, man. Let's take a quick break. And I do want to talk a keep on this subject about how a locker room can get galvanized on the next segment. Cash in on bawling out this NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 money line bet. That's $150 if your team wins. Yeah, so tonight I'm going to

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Bonus issued as non-wadrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook. com. And we are back. Roger has made fun of me during the break because the breaks are kicking my ass right now. They are kicking my ass.

Let me just say, though. I couldn't do it, so I'm not judging, but it is funny. They can't see you, but the look on your face is like a little uncomfortable look as you're like, are we,

we're going to break? Let's go to break. We're going to break. Damn, wow, we're here. But what I want to talk about is just galvanizing a locker room. And that makes you think about the Sixers just to start this season. They've won six straight, including a huge win over the Celtics, who were playing really good coming into the night.

Or they've won six straight since James Hardin has left. I want to just talk about, I don't have the stats in front of me. Quite frankly, I haven't watched a ton of Sixers. But I want to talk about how someone who has been polarizing in your locker room, once that said person leaves, how that can galvanize said locker room, bra? How do you think that just not even James Harden the person? Because I know that there are anecdotal examples of him helping out that locker room. Tyrese maxi doesn't have a bad word to say about James Harden.

But just the overall figure that he has been and the overall just storyline that it has been, what does it like for a locker room when they, That is out of the picture because before the season, you said if he leaves, they might go on a little run. They might do some things. How is that helping them during this first stretch of the season? Because of his style of play at times, you know, obviously Maxie is going to get to flourish a little bit more. You see that in his uptick and points per game and a little bit more room for him to kind of grow and feel through trial and error who he's going to ultimately be in the league. I think you see Tobias Harris is able to produce a little bit more offensively in that absence.

And quite frankly, you know, Joel Embed probably has the ball in his hands a little bit more. I think he's averaging an assist more this year than he was last year. And so, you know, that's just kind of on the court stuff. You know, Kelly Ubrae is playing well. Like there's some, but, you know, it's kind of psychological, man. Like you're, you don't have to not like James Hardin or feel like James Hardin's been a bad teammate or disagree with the way he's handled it to be negatively affected by the distraction of it. it can be heavy. It can be a palpable thing.

Like when you're coming in the locker room and there's this air of just kind of stress and uncertainty, you know, you can feel that. And so as long as it exists, you might not even know that you're feeling it. But it's there. It's just covering, covering, you know, the locker room. And it's just kind of consuming people in a way that you're like, man, something just doesn't feel great. And then if you can get rid of that, it feels like you're breathing clean air versus, you know, polluted air. I don't know.

It's a bad analogy. But the point is it doesn't have to be like James Hardin's a bad dude and he sucks and we disagree with it necessarily. But the distraction of what's going on and the stress level that it's creating and the anxiety that's around maybe from the people up top and it filters all the way down to the locker room can be kind of hard to overcome at times. And when you free that up and now people are having fun, like the best teams out of the best teams out. I was on, that shit didn't feel like work. Right. We weren't coming in there answering dumb questions about somebody wanting to trade and, hey, man, what are you going to have to do when this happens?

And hey, man, what do you guys think? That wasn't, we were just out there vibing, having a good time, doing what I talked about in the last segment, like, you know, hanging out, kicking it, having a good time with our families. And when we came to work, it was just an extension of that. So we weren't, there weren't any distractions to really worry about. Well, you know, it's funny. I was thinking about like when you talk about this, like, you know, the,

team in my backyard, like who, you know, last year, you know, had to just even just think about, like, the maintenance of, you know, keeping a team together, talking about the Warriors, keeping a team together under, like, wild circumstances. Then I see them, like, the first three weeks of this year. And I just go in their locker room and I'm just like, oh, y'all like each other. Like, oh, you got, like, the locker room is just, it'll tell you everything you didn't know. Locker room tells no lies. If you go in a locker room, you know exactly what the team is like and how they function and how they like each other or don't like each other.

And that is really palpable. And that is the, that's the difference between wins and losses in a lot of ways, right? On a night to night basis, just if you will hold your people down, you know, in a game. Absolutely. Look, I mean, again, the only thing I have to draw on is personal experience. So I guess if you're listening, like, this is real talk. Like most people in the Utah locker with me at the end, if you asked them what they thought of me, they'd be like, man, Roger's a good dude.

What are you talking about? Like, Roger's straight. Like, I still talk to Gordon Hayward. They would still probably tell you if they were being forthright and honest that what was going on between me and Tyrone Corbyn at that time was a real fucking distraction. Do you know what I mean? And that would be fair also. And I was still a good dude and my teammates liked me and I had a good time with them.

But the other shit that was going on with the organization and me was, you know, we weren't great at the time. So it wasn't prohibiting us from, from winning any championship, but it was prohibiting them from being as good as they could be because it was a distraction. How do you, I don't even know how you, is it, I don't know, is this serendipitous timing? Like, what is it a mindset from everyone that we're going to build a good culture? Like, what is the, what do you have to do to build that?

Like, what do you have to do it to build it consistently? Like, because I think about, let me, let me take it to like James Hardin for a second, right? with dames harden it's like you knew the job was dangerous when you took it every time for every team post Houston Rockets right so for a guy like gary or to bring i get why he brings his guy in but how much do you have to like weigh that when you are trying to get talent like it's not just Hall of Fame talent it has to be All of Fame lock and those players are so rare I know this but like when you're bringing someone into the fold you how much due diligence do you have to do not just with their games it has to be with all these other things as well right a huge amount of due diligence a huge the there were people when i was with the calves that we were trying to sign because if you remember when lebron came back you know that roster was going to that roster was going to change like we you know we still had dion waiters um there were some other pieces there that ultimately that roster was going to move around a little bit for us to get the pieces that we wanted so there were multiple people that we would target and people would ask me, hey man, what do you think about this particular player coming in? Or what do you think about that player coming in? Or I would take a player to them, right? And the process of vetting that player, not his on court. Like, you can look at the film and see that. But I've spoken to this a little bit. Like, we dig into the personnel files of everybody scout that's been at your

building that's affiliated with us and what they've written about you on any given night, going back to as far as they started writing about you. Did. That was some real bullshit. And it was some real bullshit. And we quite frankly, I've had conversations with them about that. Like you can't,

you can't just rely on what you read in those things because I showed them mine. And I was like, look, look, you guys know me. Does this look right? They were like, no,

that ain't right. So, but anyway, I digress. I mean, my point is, there were people that we didn't bring in because you said,

hey, our locker room can't handle that right now. whatever it is, it's not set up to handle that. Or you'd be like, you know, we could really use that in the locker room to help us handle what we currently have. Like that is a solution to some of this type of stuff. And so being able to identify that and get the, you know, the chemistry equation correct

is why some GMs are great and some aren't. Because it's not just about talent acquisition. It's really not. Like, you got to get the recipe of personalities right. You got to get the recipe of good dudes to bad dudes. Kobe Altman and David Griffin like to use the terms, fountains and drains. Like, fountains are guys that come into your organization and they provide energy

and they provide character and they're just this fountain of good stuff. And drains are guys that are sitting over in a corner just, you know, like just pulling it out of the organization. And you can have a drain. especially a talented dream, but you can only have, but so much of it if you don't have enough fountains. And so it is a really tricky equation.

Now, where I think, you know, that one got interested is Darryl Morey's relationship with James in the past. Right. And some of those dudes, you know, you take for granted that a guy is running, you know, this billion dollar corporation that every decision he makes is, like, rooted in brilliance.

And it's the right move. And some of those dudes have egos too. So I don't know this for certain, but I think Darryoramori is probably in a situation where he was looking at it because you couldn't help but look at it and be like, he's been dysfunctional the last two stops.

It didn't end well here, and it didn't end well in Brooklyn. And I, as Darry, who knows James Hardin, I have to acknowledge that. But I, as Darry, feel like I, you know, can get the best out of him and it won't happen to me. Do you know what I mean?

And so your ego gets involved then you think you're the one that can make it right, and it ain't make it right. It's such a tricky, tough organ. Like, just a way of going about things, bro, because everything is a puzzle. And talent is so tantalizing, bro. And talent is one of those things

where you can talk yourself every single time into doing it. Like, we'll figure it out. We'll make it work. We'll do it. It's just, it's really a tough thing to do. It is tough, but I'll tell you like this. My middle son, Todd, just took him to do another high school, play basketball.

because I believe it should be, I believe that there should be universal rules for dudes. That's what I want him in. I want him in a situation where he looks around and he's like, yo, if that shit can happen to me, it can happen to Logan too. Do you know what I mean?

Like I don't think he needs to know that yet. As you get to ages and millions of dollars are on the table, you get to a professional level where it's, where it's entertainment and you're trying to win championships and you're, but at the lower levels, and this is just a rant for me, at the lower levels, I think we're doing kids a disservice with that shit, because we're doing that to them at a young age now, where we're like, yo, you're talented, so we're going to let you slide. You can act like a fool.

I mean, I think we're seeing that a lot with, like, how these young kids become stars, right? Like, even it's, I think, and I'm going to get into my rant bag, I do think the AAU culture and the way like stars are treated or like presume stars are treated. read it at the high school level. It's starting to rear its head on the NBA level. You guys can deduce who I'm talking about. I don't really care. But I will just say you can see that. And it's eroding like our, the next level of stars that we have, right?

And I know it's rare to have generational players, but we have generational talents in the league right now that because they don't take it seriously and they are from that culture, they're fucking it up for themselves, but also just like the growth of the game. It's my rant. Yeah. No,

I agree with you. And there's got to be, you know, the old saying there's no honor amongst thieves. There needs to be. Thieves need to get together and create some fucking code of honor. Because if, if that talent,

right, wasn't able to hold anybody hostage, then guess what that talent would have to do. Was that? It would have to get right. It would have to cut the bullshit. It would then understand. that this isn't acceptable anywhere.

Like, people don't operate like this. And then, like, this is what I was telling this man's coach. You would actually be helping that talent. Because when it gets to its next stop, it's not going to be slapped in the face by the reality of you can't operate like that at this level. But we do it a disservice when we let talent hold us hostage at the lower levels. Like, that's not the way it's supposed to work. All to win 40 games in the NBA, you know, like at maximum.

Yeah, but I'm, yes, but I'm not even talking about the NBA. I'm talking about our youth basketball culture and what it's turned into is just kind of septic. Like, look, man, talent at 13 and 14 and 15 and 16 years old shouldn't be holding any grown men fucking hostage. Like, I'm saying that definitively, and shame on you if you letting it hold you hostage. That's not the way this shit's supposed to work. Straight like that. I want to talk really good before we get out of here. One of my favorite players to watch.

and I think one of yours as well, Anthony Edwards seems to be kind of taking that leap. Look at his stats really quickly. 27 a game, six rebounds, five assists. Roger, I've been telling you this for a long time. I think Anthony Edwards is one of the best young talents. It just has one of the best young mindsets in the league is one of my favorite players to watch. But I always was like, man, how is he going to like take that? Like, when is he going to take the reins?

as the franchise star, right? He is the guy. It's very clear. He's the guy. It was that a few years ago when he wouldn't take the shot, but you're like, Anthony, just take the shot, bro. Take the shot. This is your team.

Do it. Stop deferring. How long, and I know you can speak to this just being around these stars, but like, how long does it take? What are the factors that it, that has to go into finally just seeing that for yourself, that like, I have the talent, but I need to like, I need to learn. these things to get to the next level of stardom and the next level of where I want to get to to be the face of this organization. First of all, it starts with just a silly amount of

God-given talent and then a work ethic to match. You have to be committed to continuing to grow as a player. You can't be the same dude after year two that you were when you came into the league. There's got to be a progression of skill set and mindset, right? And, you know, you. You know, typically when you come in as a gifted player like that, you're probably like a singular force where everyone can see the talent and the stats oozing out of you, right? You're producing them every night. But as you continue to grow and you continue to evolve, you become a force multiplier where not only are you doing that, but you are making everyone around you better in some capacity. Do you know what I mean? You start to learn how to lift the people around you to a

level that allows them to compliment you in a way that produces wins. You know, you grow into those moments. You saw LeBron do it where, you know, he caught a lot of shit early in his career for not wanting to shoot shots at the end of the game. And LeBron's like, hey, man, I'm just making the right basketball play. And he's arguing in the media back and forth. And people are like, yeah, but you got to shoot that. Like, sometimes there's trial and error with that.

And he still does the same thing. Like, he's like, I'm still making the right basketball. But I saw the other night where he passes to Cam Redis for three for the win. Right. Right. And listen. still. LeBron believes that that's part of, of his way to force multiply, which is like I'm empowering

dudes around me to do that. Like, I trust them in those moments, so I'm going to let them eat in those moments, and it'll bear fruit eventually. And I think it has. Defensively, man, like not every superstar is blessed with the ability to guard. But when you've got ants, size. explosion, like explosiveness, like Twitch combination, like you should be able to affect the game like Kobe and MJ

and those dudes when they, when they, you know, were young. Like those dudes to sit down and strap up. You know, they were all defensive type of players. Not that he'll necessarily be that, but you ain't just doing it on the offensive end, if you can understand what I'm saying, Logan. And so, you know, that's how a guy continues to get better, man. He continues to work.

He continues to improve his game from a skill set perspective. He continues to mature mentally and understand that it's not just about him and the numbers that he's creating for himself, but it's about him being able to help others create numbers that help the organization win. How does he comport himself? Like, is he into some bullshit? Like, is there always a headline? Like, can he be the face of this franchise, like, as a CEO type of person? Like, that's a real thing. Like, do we trust him in that way?

Do you know? Like, those are all things that go into it. And there's a natural kind of arc and an evolution to it. But in terms of on the court, I think you've seen a very quick ascension to like, no, man, I'm in a place right now where we could do this. Now, I don't think they win a championship. But I think you're seeing a dude right now who's got a lot of those boxes checked. You know, like I still think there are some things, you know, that have to happen organizationally and so on and so forth. That's for another pod.

But I think he's had a quick rise to that level of human being and teammate, like the sky. skill set was always kind of there. It will continue to get better. But you've seen the maturation of a young man that, uh, that's been pretty rapid. Him being a superstar or him going into being a superstar unlocks the whole. It makes, it validates all the moves that the Minnesota Timberwolves have made. Even like, you know, the Rudy Gobert move and all these things. Because Rudy Gobert wasn't traded to actually be a superstar who was traded to be a complimentary piece. Now, you can say, you know, they traded a boatload of picks. I get that. But no one's talking about that if Anthony Edwards becomes a superstar

and puts everybody in their place. Now, Rudy Gobert is going to be Rudy Gobert. Cat is going to be cat, but if they can do this and continue to do this and be good on the defensive end, and man, there's just so much dog in an ant man, bro. There's just so

much dog in him, even on the defensive end. Now, he could, there's a lot of things he can improve on, but it's just, I just want to give that in flowers, right? Like, even if it's, it don't got to be a long segment, but like, it's, he's one of those dudes. He should get him. And for like, you know, we ain't always been great about, I mean, I think we've been semi-fair. We've made a mistake here or there. But like when talking about

Minnesota, like they like they should get some flowers. He should get some flowers. For sure. Let's go to real one of the week. Rajah, I've had a week to stew on my real one of the week. And you guys asked me about this person and this team earlier in the week and I was still kind of processing it. But I'm giving it to the Oakland, Las Vegas, Los Angeles. Angeles Raiders. And it's more specifically Antonio Pierce. He is my ruin of the week. I was, I've just been scouring the internet and the YouTube's for just content on this guy. And I'm as a coach. I didn't really like him as a player, but I do really like him as a coach. And he's a guy from Compton who he was just speaking my language in one of the pressers.

Like, I'm a dude from Compton. I'd listen to NWA. This is why I've been a Raider. of my whole life. And I'm like, yes, you're cut from that same cloth. I understand I was the same, I was the kid of that movement. He is a generation before me.

He's probably of my father's ilk, right? Just like what the Raiders used to be, right? And I don't know what the Raiders are going to do. I, quite frankly, I don't care. I don't care what the record is, but I just, I like what I'm hearing from him. And also, shout out to Long Beach Polly,

who beat the shit out of Compton High School. I think it was on the same weekend as Antonio Pierce, a Long Beach Polly alumni won his first game. They beat them 99 to 9. It was ridiculous. And I don't like giving Long Beach Polly credit because I'm a Berkeley high grad. That's a football score? That's a football score.

99 to 9? Over Compton High School. I just, yeah, it's ridiculous. And I don't like giving Long Beach Polly their flowers. And everybody who knows, shout out to Doc. Shout out to Jason Jones. Shout out to Mike G. Y'all know where I stand.

But I do got to give you all y'all flowers. I got to give it to you guys. But Antonio Pierce for the Oakland, Las Vegas, L.A. Raiders. Let's go for two in a row. Let's get some wins. I like that. Listen, if you ever played against my teams,

I'm not a huge believer in like, if we're beating you and my backups get a chance to play, that they go out there. And I literally don't give them. a chance to play because I tell them they can't score or whatever like those kids work really hard too and they deserve a chance to play so I'm going to keep playing but 99 to 9 whoa well that you blew me away with that one anyway anyway let me um let me just say this I have two real ones of the week um I've been very blessed um in a lot of ways but first and foremost in in the family that

I've been blessed with from top to bottom, grandparents, great-grandparents, all the way down to my children. I've been super blessed. And I've been equally as blessed with the extended family that I've been able to, been fortunate enough to kind of have in my life. And so I'm giving two real ones to two young ladies. They're my extended family who both signed their national letters of intent yesterday. One is Taylor Durkak. She will be attending you. UMass next year to play women's basketball. She's currently at Colonia, New Jersey. She's going to be the player of the year up there and break all kind of records.

So shout out to her real one of the week for her commitment to UMass, you know, women's basketball. And the other one is down here in Pembroke Pines, Florida, near and dear. Her name is Sage Carey. She's an excellent soccer player, and she will be playing. And she signed her letter of intent. And I got to attend the ceremony yesterday to the University of Miami. It's all about the games. It's all about the U.

So she will be attending University of Miami next year to play soccer. And it was really cool to be a part of her ceremony yesterday. And I'm grateful and thankful. And they're both my real ones at a week. That is fire. I saw the pictures from that. Shout out to them. I saw the pictures from the U.

That was what's up. Also, I have to add to that. This is going to be adding to the rules. It's going to be a long row of the week. I don't care. To my dog, Ty Boogie,

Happy birthday champ. Oh, yes, sir. Oh, yes, sir. Wait a minute. Oh, Jesus Christ. Ty don't listen. I didn't do it. Yeah, I appreciate it.

I had to hold my dog down. I had to hold my dog down. I was waiting for it, but I'm like, damn. You thought that's where I was going. I was waiting for it, but I don't hold my dog down. God, dog. Yeah, man. Happy birthday, man.

That boy's cut from good shit, man. And I don't mean, I, again, got nothing to do with me, man. That dude, he gets it. Like, he's, he's, he's, yeah, he gets it. So I have some, uh, some updates to the 99-9 story. That did not have been over the weekend. That had, they did beat Compton High School. Long Beach Polly did be Compton High School.

Jesus, I can't believe I'm talking about Long Beach Polly this much. But anyway, Long Beach Polly did be Cominent High School, but the 99-9 actually happened. And I'm reading the Long Beach Press telegram for my guy, Mike G out there in Long Beach tap in with him, 562.org. We see you. But it happened in 2014 when Antonio Pierce was the coach of Long Beach Polly. And one of the things that he said, he said, he was like, I don't know. he was like we ran the ball

the whole second half. I don't know what happened. Like I just, I don't know. It was the biggest wing in Long Beach Polly history since 1921. That's what happened. And that story resurfaced. So you just, you just want to go tackle nothing, huh? You want to go tackle nothing.

Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Shout out to Long Beach Polly, man. Shout out to, yeah. Anyways, that's enough of that talk with the Jack Rabbit. Say nobody trying to hear all that. we'll see you guys on Monday Motherfucking Monday's with Howard Motherfucking Beck

Tap in talk to you all suit Jesus come on Come on Logan Let's get to the transition Tumble and stumbling all the shits See you guys next week Bye Must be 21 years and older

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