The Ringer NBA Show - The Raptors Win the Most Boring Double-OT Playoff Game in Recent Memory | Heat Check

Episode Date: May 20, 2019

Kawhi Leonard and the Toronto Raptors take advantage of an off-night from Giannis Antetokounmpo to edge out a double-OT win against the Milwaukee Bucks in Game 3 (3:12), while the Portland Trail Blazers fall behind 3-0 to the still-dominant Golden State Warriors (28:10). Plus: The Duffel Bag Boys weigh in on the NBA draft lottery order (38:34). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Mark Titus, Tate Frazier Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's heat check is brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. There's no such thing as a good excuse for not buckling up. If you're using excuses like, I'm not going very far, you're putting yourself at risk of injury or even death. If that's not enough to convince you, consider this. Not buckling up could cost you lots of money. Cops are writing tickets, so why take the risk? Do the smart thing and buckle up every trip day or night. Click at her ticket.

And now, heat check. It's a heat check. You knew that was coming. It's Heat Checktime. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez. Joined in studio. Hey.

Reunited once again in Los Angeles by my producer, Isaac Lee. I'm looking at your smiling face. It's like 85 degrees out. How many layers are you wearing? I'm wearing three layers. For the record. And a Beanie. And a Beanie.

For the record, it is 62 degrees out. I don't know what you're talking about. It's mid-May, almost June. And you look like you're going to keep a Game of Thrones here. You're going beyond the wall with Torman. And that's the end of you. I mean, May Gray and June Gloom is what we always say here in Los Angeles

Anyone not from here will not know that But it's always like, you know, a little bit cloudy You know, it rained yesterday here in L.A. So I feel like I'm justified in my fashion choices. This is some fire weather talk on heat check. I should have brought you. I'm back from Toronto. I went. I was there for Game 7 last week.

Kauai's infamous physics-defying Quadrupled Dink game winner that sent them on to the playoffs. But it actually was May Gray there and cold and rainy. and I don't own, as you know, a jacket because we live in Los Angeles. So I wish you would come with me because I could have stole some of your clothes.

But you're here now and you're smiling at me and I'm glad we're back. And I'm glad you guys are all listening. Thanks for listening. Please rate and review us and all of our fantastic Ringer MBA shows and pods. Check out to Ringer.com. Can't recommend it enough.

Palo and Haley have been all over the winners and losers from the playoffs. Roger Sherman wrote a piece about how tanking isn't going anywhere and how it's going to evolve. And we have roughly, and check my math on this, roughly all of the Game of Thrones stories on the internet. They're on our site.

100% of the Game of Thrones content on the internet belongs on the ringer.com. Yeah, we monopolized it, and you're welcome. You and I have not seen tonight's episode yet because we were watching game. What game was this? Game three. Game three of Bucks and Raptors. My brain has gone completely to mush in the postseason. But this is kind of a problem with us recording on Sunday nights is that we need the

internet to do our job. Yes. And yet the internet does not care about that at all. And just is talking about Game of Thrones left and right. Yeah. Spoilers everywhere. Spoilers everywhere. So we've been dodging that. But we're not dodging basketball.

We've got a lot of stuff going on basketball-wise. We just watched the game with one of our favorites. We've got another guy who's also one of our favorites. We're going to put those two favorites together. It's almost like they know each other. Oh, almost. We're going to talk about basketball. We're going to talk about a little retroactive lottery stuff.

And then I got a fun game for us to play at the very end. I want to see where that ranks out. So let's bring the men. Boom, Chaconla. All right, joining me now. One half is in the studio. One Half is at home for reasons that we'll explain in a second. It's Mark Titus and Tate Frazier from One Shining Podcast,

not one but two Duffelbag Boys, yet another OSP Heat Check crossover. I'm very excited about this gentleman. As far as the Ringer extended universe goes, this is our version of endgame. This is wonderful. This is very ambitious crossover event. I should say that I am in studio. Tate is not. Does this mean that I get a bigger playoff share?

You got a bigger cut. Yeah. So, Tate, explain to the people at home because this is a big deal. We're going to talk about a double overtime game in mere seconds, but what people really want to know about is why you didn't make it into the studio. I will say this. If this was in game, then we need Rick Petino to be our Thanos, and this would be the full extended universe of Heat Check and One Shining Podcast.

But since we couldn't put that together this week, yeah, I had a flat tire driving back from Sherman Oaks, and then that left me to my own devices to figure that out. Put on a spare tire. Got home safely, luckily, but didn't want to make the drive in on a spare tire. Did you change it yourself? trying to be safe. Yes. As a grown adult, I'm finally growing up.

I'm finally getting there. I made it to that point, but not enough to make the studio. So Mark Titus deserves my shares. So that's only fair. All right. Nice job by you. You're still a game or you're still doing the podcast with us. You missed. I wish you had been with us because Titus and Isaac and I watched the double overtime thriller.

The Raptors climb back into the series, maybe, question mark. We'll get into that in just a second. It would have been a wrap for the series. It would have been 30 bucks had they held on. said the Raptors pick up a win. On a night where they had to do basically everything they possibly could. They got a big Kauai game. They got a big game from Pascal Seacum, although he had a couple of missed free throws.

They had four of their five starters and double figures. They got a big game out of Norman Powell. And yet it still took them double overtime in a game when Janus didn't play particularly well to fend off the bucks and pick up one win in the series. Yeah, I don't tell you, maybe you disagree. We were talking about this. I didn't really feel like this was a good basketball game. It was a close game that was exciting just by default

because it's the playoffs and it was a must win. And Drake was sitting courtside, losing his mind. All those things made it fun to watch eventually, but it was really, really sloppy and ugly. And, like, Kauai, even as great as he was, it felt like he just kind of puts his head down and dribbles around in circles and gets triple-teamed. And then it's thinking, should I shoot it?

Because I still, me, triple-teamed, is still better than a lot of these bozos wide open. So maybe I should shoot it. And, yeah, as it turns out, he's right, he should shoot it because he is better than everyone. But, yeah, like, the end of regulation, you get the Chris Middleton, like, that was to me a perfect representation of what this game was. It was like the two Chris Middleton possessions at the end of regulation, the one, he shoots a three with, he's triple teamed with seven seconds left, down by two. Yeah, Bledsoe dropped into him, and he shot a three. And Isaac was screaming for a time out there.

They had multiple timeouts, and he just jacked it. If you shoot that shot in college basketball, you get your scholarship pulled immediately. Not even your scholarship, but I think you're just. like you can't transfer anywhere, you're immediately declared ineligible. The NCAA rules you're ineligible. So he does that and then he makes up for it by the next play, taking another horrible double-team shot when Malcolm, he could have kicked it to the opposite corner to Brockton,

who was open for three, kind of forces it up, gets it blocked, but then lays it in and gives it. And to me, like, that was a perfect representation because it was like, this was not good basketball, but in the end, he tied the game and sent it to overtime. So technically it was like kind of... Yeah, it was not good, but it was fun. It was oddly entertaining. So that's kind of how I felt watching this whole game.

Yeah, I felt that way too. And I mean, you brought back to college basketball, one of our favorite college basketball players. Of course, Mr. Malcolm Brogden, our president. I mean, in this game, he was amazing. He had a nice little reverse layup, I think, with like, 36 seconds left on Kauai, and he played great defense on Kauai the entire game.

So he was probably the only guy as far as, you know, people I was impressed with that played good basketball throughout the game. So I enjoyed watching Brogden play. I think this was one of those games where, you know, for all the good publicity we get for Yonis, 24-7 and a lot of people think that Janus is the one that's kind of unscathed in the business of everyone being torn down as superstars. I mean, tonight was one of those games where he gets all the travel calls that people have been clamoring for. You know, they finally made these decisions,

even though the big one that they showed that everyone wanted the call, I don't even know if he did travel. So that was a big takeaway in this game. And then just in general, in that final play that Chris Middleton did score that Titus was just talking about, they had him all the way in the back and then they set this back screen for him to get back into the play. And people were saying, oh, Janus can't be trusted for the final shot. But Middleton's been the guy all season for them in those late game situations. So it didn't make a lot of sense. But like you said, it was ugly.

Even though Middleton did scroll in that play and died the game, it was ugly. And then by the time we got to the double overtime, it just felt like everyone was tired. Janus wasn't into the game anymore. And Toronto and Drake finally prevailed. So it was a good day for Toronto. Big win for Drake. What a mess this game was. Like the more I look at this box score, the more confused I am by it.

I mean, Janice, you were mentioning, Janice got some calls against him. He didn't get many calls in his favor. Didn't shoot a free throw until under nine minutes left in regulation. He fouled out. He had 23 rebounds and seven assists. Like, I don't know what to make of this box score. He went 5 of 16 from the floor. None of the bucks shot well, particularly well in this game.

You could make a case pretty easily, actually, that George Hill and Malcolm Brogden were the best bucks, and they both came off the bench. And without those two dudes, I don't know. that it even gets through the two double over time. Meanwhile, Van Vlee and Danny Green were combined. I don't have the numbers in front me. I want to say one for 37, I think. Sure, one for make up a number.

Is our man, Dan Devine would say 11T. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it was not a great game. Speaking of the calls, what about the Kauai double dribble? I mean, it ultimately, I don't know how much it impacted. But it did not impact the game in regulation. I don't want to be that guy, though, that's like, you know, this one moment.

in time, that's what won them the game because of two points that should have, but yeah, it was an interesting. In regulation, he stole the ball, went the length of the court, threw down a thunder dunk. It looked like a Superman dunk where he I think it was in regulation, right? No, it was in one of the overtime. Was it in one of the overtime? I think it might have been the second overtime.

Yeah, I know. It's all... I think it was like 108 to 105 or something like that was. You had a left-handed dunk? Yeah, the left-handed one or he double drill. He picked it up at like the top of the key, yeah. All right, so on one of the many Kauai steals, he went the length of the floor and threw down a crazy, beautiful dunk, and he kind of came up like a

little hobbling afterwards. And you immediately picked up on it, Titus, where you said, like, it looked like he double dribbled. And you went on Twitter, which I didn't want you to do because we were trying to avoid Game of Thrones spoilers. Right. But you said that, yeah, that was the general consensus. Well, I should say, too, as being the college basketball hard ass watching the NBA,

I also call out, like, every travel that it's happening. And so, like, I got a lot wrong where, like, the Janus thing, I think Tate was alluding to it, the Yonest, just the most insane Euro step, I think I've ever seen in my life that took 10 seconds to pull off. I was like, I don't know if that's a travel in NBA, but that is a million percent of travel in college basketball, but this is obviously, so all these plays, I'm always the guy that's like,

are we sure that's, that kind of looked like a travel, right? And so I noticed it immediately. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know how much, like ultimately, it mattered, obviously. It's two points, but it felt like the Raptors were going to pull it out eventually. They had to.

It just felt like the whole energy of the place. This is, I'm sure that you deal with this tape when you guys do your podcast. This is revisionist history. because we're sitting there and we're watching the game, and him and Isaac, until the final buzzer, we're like, I think the bucks are going to win this game. Listen, I think the bucks were going to win,

but the Raptors had to win. There's a difference. Oh, yes, yes, the most important versus the best, the classic argument in all sports. The thing that we always go back to, I will say, I thought the bucks were going to win until Malcolm Brogden when he missed that free throw. Marv kind of set him up.

He goes, you know, Brogden leads the NBA in free throw percentage, then he misses that second free throw to 112, 110. And I just felt like the fatigue. kind of played a role in that. And then honestly, the reason they kept saying in the game is because Drake was there. He was cheering so loud

that he was still motivating the Bucks people. Like Eric Bledsoe was like chirping back at Drake for a little bit of the game. So I think that was giving them some energy for a little bit of time. And then, you know, eventually it runs out and the Raptors get the win.

But we can always change our opinions, right? Mark, after the game. During the game, you have to go back and forth. That's what we do best on OSP. As the ringer.com's biggest Drake fan, I feel like I want to step in.

Probably. Are you doing a bet right now? I don't know. I'm not saying like ranking you, but you actually do like Drake? I liked him as a bit, and then I took the bit too far, and I actually ended up like him. It spiraled out of control. Now I actually do like Drake, but I just want to point out, and maybe this is a point that's been made by the NBA holes across the world many times over. But I brought this up as we were watching the game.

How much I appreciate that Drake has all the reason in the world to be too cool for school as he's sitting court side at these Raptors games. And he could just kind of cross his arms and just kind of just be. there to be seen and just kind of flex on everyone and say, I'm Drake, I'm here, this is, this is all, but this man is an actual fan losing his mind. Now, he's a fan of every team. I get that. He does cheer for every team. He's a bandwagon guy, obviously. But he is not too cool for school. He's losing his mind on the sidelines. He's talking smack to all the guys. He's very much into it. And in all seriousness, that is kind of cool because he does not have to be whatsoever. He could very easily do the Jay-Z thing and just kind of sit there and just, and assume,

as soon as the camera's on him, as soon as he gets his shot at him court side, then he can leave the game, and that could be that, but... I could take or leave Drake. Like, you know, like, I'm all right. I'm all right on Drake. Like, him, like, not showing up for game seven, so he could sit in 76ers shorts and reverse his own...

It's like... Curse. I'm like, what... I don't... This is too matter for me. I get it. It's like corny as hell, and you don't want, like, the best rat, or the... Maybe not the best, obviously, okay, whatever. Whatever he ranks and he wrapped him. The most important, the most fan... Whatever it is.

He's very important and influential about it. You don't want your top rapper being this corny. I understand that. But that's part of the charm, I think, of it all. Is that like, there's just something about it? It's like, he could very easily not be a fan, and he's just like, screw it. I'm going to wear a camo pants on the sideline and lose my mind and stress out. And that's cool to me.

Anyway, we get back to the basketball. He made this point during the game. Where were you on Drake's fandom? I'm just happy that Drake dressed up like Barney wore the purple, like a dinosaur, so he could keep up. you know, keep it in the same universe as far as the dinosaur support that he has. And then also you have to bring up Mike Myers also in the crowd, a real Raptors

fan from Canada. Shout out to Mike Myers, awesome powers in the crowd. Then Gucci Main wearing the Yanos Hansa Dekumpo, Buck's jersey, I thought was really great. So as far as all the celebrity sightings, you got a lot in this game, which has been nice. But you mentioned Van Vleet earlier and Danny Green I'll bring up later. Danny Green hit that three in overtime.

Which, by the way, sorry to cut you off. Danny Green's only points of the game. Yes. Oh for 8 of the time when he took that three. He got him up 90, I think it was like 99, 96 of that point. If it would have kept going to more overtimes, Danny Green would have kept hitting. He would have finished with like 30 points. He was just heating up as soon as the game ended.

He ran out of time. He just ran out of time. That's what it is. I was going to say Van Fleet hit a big three in that game. Reggie Miller called it and he goes up for them to go 91, 88, and then George Hill hit a three. And then that was pretty much the reason that I thought the Bucks had a good chance in this game because I feel like Toronto as the bench guys are all supporting guys that have to

score to make an impact like Siakum and Gasol were great in this game. I think they combined for 41 points or something like that. But when you look at the Bucks team like Pat Conantin comes off the bench, he's not there to score. He's there to get, you know, offensive rebounds and keep the offense going and do the little things. And the same with Brogden. And I don't know, I think the role players on the Bucs is as much as this was a great win for Toronto. I still think the Bucks, they look better in this series because the role players know that they're playing a role. And the guys off the Raptors bench feel like they have to come in. And the best thing they can do is to help, you know, Kauai in some way to score. So that was my big takeaway.

in this game. I think that's exactly right because during the regular season, I was a big fan of the Raptor supporting cast, and during the playoffs, I had been much less of a fan of the Raptor supporting cast. We mentioned Danny Green scoring three points, one basket. Same thing for Van Fleet. Van Fleet was bad

in this game, but they had to run them out there because they didn't really have a whole lot of other options. I mean, he only made one shot as well. He was one for 11, and that was also a three ball. And you mentioned that it was a timely one, but mostly for this entire, at least like, into the Sixers series, really has felt like Kauai's had to do it all himself. And I know, like, if you just look at the

line, Siakum had a good game, right? He had 25 points and 11 rebounds and three steals and a block and all, you know, he made 50% from the field. He played 51 minutes, but there were multiple times during the game as there were multiple times during the Sixers series where I felt like the Pascal Seacom that we saw during the regular season where it was like, oh shit, Pascal's here now. He's their second best player. He's going to be, you know, the running mate with Kwai Leonard. That Pascal Seacom, we've only gotten. intermittently in the playoffs, there have been moments when he has sort of shied from,

like there were shots that he didn't want to take in game seven. I felt like there were shots he didn't want to take tonight. This is all Kauai. Whatever these numbers say, this is all Kauai. And one name that has not been mentioned, and we're, what, like 15 minutes into the podcast. That's pretty good. This is insane to me because as a tangential adopted Cavs fan

from my time living in Ohio, and I watched a lot of the Cavs and their run to the finals with the Bron. And they would play the Raptors every year. And the Raptors are always the ones. one hope to beat LeBron out of the east. The fact that Kyle Lowry through that entire LeBron era, he was the face of the Raptors with the Rosen. And now this man is just non-existent.

Filed out. Is wild. We haven't even mentioned his name in 15 minutes, you're saying it's all Kauai. And then even when it's, even when Kauai has help, you're still not talking about Kyle Lauer. It's just crazy.

I'm not saying we're wrong for not talking about him, obviously. Fowd out he did not play well. It's just like, it's insane to think that that's where we've arrived with Kyle Lauer. It's like he kind of, He was still a plus 15, but, like, Kyle Lowry in the playoffs and tape, I'm interested to see what you think about Kyle Lowry so far. Like, his best game, maybe of the entire playoffs was game one of this series, and they wasted it in Milwaukee, right?

And then on a night like tonight, he fouls out, he's a plus 15. He's like, again, sort of intermittently good and helpful, but then not on the floor when they need him knows. So it comes down to what it's come down to for the Raptors pretty much the entire playoffs, which is Kauai's going to do it or they're going to lose. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it came down to one of those things, too. Like, I think Lowry came in and hit a three to get him 11 points and he still had five fouls. And then I kind of compare it to when Norm Powell got his fifth foul, I was much more concerned for the Raptors than I was with Kyle Lowry getting his fifth foul. You know what I mean?

And that says a lot about what's insane. Yeah, that's like kind of the current state of where their team is that, you know, Norm Powell somehow means more to that team. But you mentioned Siakam now when to take shots. I mean, I think we saw it the night. I mean, he missed those two free throws that could have got him 98, 94 and kind of clinched the game. They could have won in regulation if he made those. two free throws. He didn't want to be at the line. And I think that's something that will come back to bite him at some point, especially if he's considered to be the number two guy without

Lowry being the number two guy. Yeah, that's one of those situations. I think he's still a really young guy. Again, he played 51 minutes in a critical game that could have sunk the Raptors for the rest of the playoffs, and instead they're still in it. And I want to get into how much we think they're actually in it in a second. But like, I get that the pressure is something that you've got to grow into. That part's fine. But we, and I use, use that in two senses, one, as those of us who watch the NBA and two specifically ringer heads. Like, nobody loves Pascal Seaka more than the ringer. And we basically anointed him like the next guy in Toronto. And I think before you can be the next guy or one of the guys along with Kauai for

however long he stays, you can't shy from those moments. Like you've got to be like, hey, Kauai needs you right now. Off you go and like help him out a little bit. Yeah. That's part of the growing up thing. Maybe there's like, I don't know, but Kauai is probably going to leave, right? So it'll just be his team. It doesn't matter. It'll be his team anyway. All right.

So for you two, statistically, when you lose two games to start the series, you don't traditionally go on to win the series. The Raptors ended up dropping the first two games against the box. And historically, that gives them roughly a six and a half percent chance of winning this series. Now, they won this game. And the old adage is a series doesn't start until somebody wins on the other team's floor. That hasn't happened yet.

So after this game, when, again, it took all of everything that the Raptors could give in a double over time when Janus had a weird Janus game rebounded a lot but didn't perform necessarily very well and the Bucks had a bad shooting night. Are the Raptors back in this series? Do we have a series? What's the word? Veemently. Veantly. You nailed it. That's the one. I think the Raptors are done.

But take my opinion with the grain of salt people. Like I watch college basketball year. I pop in for the playoffs and just, you know. I brought you in for the takes. We know. You can throw it back in my face if I'm wrong, but that's how I feel watching. The bucks are,

they're so damn long. Like, it is unbelievable. That lineup they had out there with, who was it? It was Janice, Mirchit, Lopez, Middleton,

and Brogden. And I just want to, like, pause the TV and just be like, my God, look at these guys. And Kauai's just trying to dribble through all of them.

And they are so good defensively, and it feels like, I'm not even doing the college basketball thing where I say, NBA players don't play defense. I understand how hard it is to play defense. Like, I don't think anybody can play good defense in the NBA. I think you just like...

It's very difficult. You just kind of like get close enough to where it's effective. And there are times where you're watching the bucks and you're like, they're actually playing great defense. Like, this is insane. You're a great defensive team. And then Janus is, I mean, I kept talking to you guys about that. Like, Janus, there's this idea of positionless basketball that's existed since

Jay Wright invented it in 2006 with the four-guard lineup at Villanova, coincidentally with Kyle Lowry on that team. there's this idea of positionless basketball and people love that phrase positionless basketball but there's like very rare where you actually have players who truly are positionless it's really just like you'll get tall guys that can shoot threes and you're like man that guy's positionless

and he's not he's just like a sinner that shoots threes right a stretch but yonis is truly positionless to the point of frustration as I'm watching him where I'm like I have no idea if I was coaching this team and I'm very old school with my approach to basketball so I love positions if I was coaching this team I would have no idea where to play him because he can do everything but he can

also not do simple things like shoot. That's the genius of bud. They basically put him on the floor and let Janus be honest and they surround him with shooters and off they go. And I just think all playoffs long and in this series, even in this game, even though they lost this game, I feel like the bucks have looked like the better team. However, every time I go to count the Raptors out, they make me look stupid. And I think like, oh, that's going to be the end of the Raptors season.

And it hasn't been yet. So I'm loath to count them out. Tate, what do you think? Are the Raptors back in this? I will say this. I think this is one of those games where Kauai Leonard is not 100% healthy. I know they threw to Ledlo at one point and they asked her what the raptors were saying about his injury. When he went up for that, it was in the first quarter, he got a fast break and he went up for the dunk.

And then he just ended up laying it in and he came down and he sort of was, you know, doing the classic thing where you just kind of try to walk it off and act like it's not as bad as it was. But for the rest of the game, even when there was one time George Hill was guarding him in the post. And it's one of those things where maybe Kauai just drives right by him. or at least takes him down the block, but instead he kind of settles for the jump shot. So to me, the reason I think the Raptors are done is because I think Kauai might be a little bit more, you know,

may not be as healthy as he's leading on. And obviously him finishing this game says a lot about him. But if this is one of those games where Kauai Leonard decides, hey, I refuse to ever be swept. I will not be swept. And that is why I'm going to play out of my mind and go 110%, but I'm still not going to be healthy for the rest of the series.

And I can see it being over. And I think honestly, the thing that really gets me for the bucks is that, when Eric Bledsoe gets out of control, and Eric Bledsoe's been great, but sometimes he gets a little bit out of control when he has to initiate the offense, when you can bring in a veteran like George Hill to kind of settle things down, play good defense, run the offense, hit some big threes. You know, after Van Fleet hit that three, he answered with another three in the corner.

I think just the depth that the bucks have, I think it takes them to the next level. And, you know, you just mentioned that lineup, Titus with all those guys. I mean, that's an insane team. They have the right veterans. And I think, you know, Janus is something to be really. reckon with. And even when he has an off night, the Bucks still have a chance. They still went to double overtime, despite, you know, him having not one of his best games in the playoffs so far. So I think that leans towards the Bucks, and I think that gives them the advantage moving forward. I just want

to reiterate that I don't fully comprehend the ebbs and flows of playoff basketball in the NBA. Like I, you know, might understand March Madness. If this team did this and this round, what do we expect from? So I don't, maybe the Raptors have a chance. I'm just telling you, from what I've seen, I think the Bucks are clearly the better team so far. Whether that actually matters. This is why I bring you guys in. Whether that matters, you know, like maybe, maybe the Raptors will steal the next one and then someone will roll. I don't know. I don't know how it It matters. It matters to me. And here's why. These playoffs with the exception of, so we had three game sevens. We had the two in the last round where Portland comes back from 17 down. We had the one

with Kauai's incredible shot that I think is still bouncing. And we had the game seven in the first round where the Spur is absolutely brainlocked and the Nuggets won. Aside from those moments and like a couple other smaller ones, this postseason has been kind of It's gone exactly according to type and plan, right? There's only been one upset, and that was Portland, a three seed over the nuggets, a two seed. Otherwise, all the higher seeds of advance per usual. There were a lot of sweeps in the first round or a lot of series that ended up with just the losing team winning one game. My point to all of this is it matters that I hope the Raptors climb back into it because the Western Conference,

and we're going to talk about that in just a second. That looks like it's already a rap, unfortunately. I just want the playoffs to be interesting and entertaining and not just like a foregone conclusion. of, oh, we're marching to another warrior's coronation. I'm tired of that. Like, I just want more. So I want to say this to my people in Toronto who give me heat for not loving the raptors enough.

I'm rooting for you. Get back in the series, please. That would be nice. We're rooting for you, Toronto. We're rooting for you. And I will say this. I think it's better for the bucks for them to get pushed. Like winning in five games is not going to be what they need to get primed for

the warriors. I think it might be a better situation if they go to six, seven games to feel the the heat of the playoffs, to feel the real moment before they go play the champs. because I think we've seen that with Portland. I mean, they thought they were going to be at that level and be ready to go once they got to the Western Conference finals, but it's a different level of intensity and guys take it up a notch. And you've got to be ready to go.

You can't be tired and worn out from the last series. That's a good point. I want to talk about that point. We're going to get into the Western Conference. We're going to get in. You guys are my college basketball guys. I want to talk a little bit of lottery. But first, let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.

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Philadelphia, obviously, is where my allegiance is personal and professional lie. But if there's an adopted team, it would be Portland and adopted city. I like the whole bit about that. I was excited for them to make the Western Conference finals for the first time since, what, 99, 2000 with Rashid Wallace and Stoddemeier and Friggin' Sky. Pippin was on that team. Great for the city. God damn it.

The Warriors, they were up in game three. I thought that they had it. And all of a sudden, the Warriors go on their typical third quarter run, and that's it. It's insane. When the Warriors are, I fall to this trap. I don't know why. I'm just an idiot, basically. I have a terrible memory or something.

But, like, I'm aware that the Warriors are unbelievable. I'm aware that they are maybe the best team, best professional basketball team ever assembled. I'm aware of all of these things. And yet, I'm watching these Warriors games, and they get down. big and then they'll go on a little run and Mike Breen calling the game is losing his mind because the Warriors go on like a 70 run to cut it to 15 or so. I'm just

pulling numbers out but it's like and you hear Mike Brain's voice be like Curry to the rim cuts it to 15 oh and he's like getting really excited and I'm sitting there watching like it's 15 Portland has a they're not going to necessarily win obviously but like why are we getting excited about a 15 point lead and then like

three minutes go by and the game's tied and I'm like that's why he was excited that's now I get it. Once they get hot like that. I mean, look, no KD, and yet they still have 36 points from Steph Curry in game three. And Dremont had an incredible Dremont game, and like, Dremont has been sort of hit or miss in these playoffs, but he had a triple double, and he threw in four steals and a block for good measure. And afterwards, Steve Carr was like, you know, he's a wrecking ball. He's, they played

incredible defense as well. What was the margin at halftime? How much were the Blazers up in that game? I think it was 13 in game three, right? Yeah, do you think, we talked about this like with Nevada this year before the wheels fell off for Nevada where teams that are up like 20 on Nevada at halftime are actually sweating in the locker room like crap what do we do? Why did we do this? Do you think that's going on and like the Blazers were up 13 at halftime and then they're in the locker room they're like oh no, what have we done? I mean I think part of it is if you're the Blazers and you're up big at half time in a game when like Myers Leonard was having a game and Myers Leonard got to start, you're thinking, okay,

this is we're beating the Warriors and we're not getting a huge contribution out of Dame Lillard, and it's not a great C.J. McCollum game, and part of that is because the Warriors were throwing everything they could defensively at those two guys, especially Dame Lillard, like in every instance that they had an opportunity to trap him, they were trapping him, and they were throwing a bunch of double teams at CJ at times

too, and it was just a tough situation for those two guys, and like somebody else had to pick up the slack. I think in those situations, you're like, all right, if we get anything out of our stars, that's pretty good, but you talk about the shift in the momentum. Tate, I don't know how you feel about this, but watching the Warriors, we mentioned

this on one of the micropods a couple of games ago, Julie Faire, who used to work for the Golden State Warriors, put in slack like, hey, is this team the Warriors team without KD fun now? And I'm like, no. And this is why. I think they're fun because we're all nostalgic for a moment in the past. So when we watch this team without Kevin Durant, we all remember an NBA in 2015, 2016 that had, you know, a dispersion of talent all around. I said this when when Kevin Durand is on the Warriors, they're an oligarchy. And when he leaves their democracy. And I think that's sort of how things play. And Steph is the perfect president. He is the perfect temperament with how he handles everything with the team. And you can see guys feeding off him. It's just that it's that old school juice. And when Kevin with the isolation plays and all this

sort of stuff, I mean, it is beautiful and it's like watching a master at its craft work in such a beautiful way. But it also takes away from some of the ball movement, the little things that we love about, you know, Golden State. And it also takes away some of the floor space for Draymond. And I think, if anything, it's empowered Draymond to play at that level that he was playing at before. I know a lot of people have talked about him losing 20 pounds. I'm always intrigued by guys that are able to just to drop 20 pounds out of nowhere and get in shape for the playoffs. But it's working out for him.

And obviously, the true triple double is what they're calling it now. So in that sense, it is fun to watch this Warriors team play and watch Steph Curry play at the MVP level. But I think that's sort of the frustration in the whole situation and why a lot of people have been so turned off by the NBA is because, I mean, we all do remember when they were the 2015, 2016 Warriors. We remember 73 wins. So we know when Durant goes down, they can still turn it on. I guess a lot of people forgot that that's possible, but Steph Curry has never left. He's just been able to pass off some of the shoulder of the scoring over to Kevin Durant,

one of the greatest scores we've ever seen. And I think that's the difference. And then now that they have the 100%, they don't have to worry about appeasing each other's egos and kind of, you know, sharing here, sharing there, and just let it go, let it fly. I think that's what we want from the Splash Brothers. So it's fun to watch. For me, I appreciate the greatness, and I love watching the Warriors play basketball, and they're obviously great at playing basketball. I love watching it, but the greatness part of it, appreciating that almost happens later. It's almost like 10 years from now.

I'll look back and fondly remember this run that the Warriors went on, and how good did they were and how much fun it was to watch. But when you're in the moment, you're exactly right, and that the inevitability of it all is really, really frustrating. And when I watch these games, I almost like shouldn't pay attention to the score, because it's like we know the Warriors are going to win. It's so much more fun to just like appreciate the talent and the individual plays that are happening out there.

And wow, did you see that pass? Wow, do you see that shot from Clay with a hand in his face? That was insane. How many guys in the league can make that? Like that kind of stuff is what is exciting about the Warriors. What's not exciting is that they're down by 20 or whatever it is and you're like, they're still going to win. This doesn't actually matter.

None of this actually matters. But it's a fun distraction for however long, for the seven months these playoffs take. to get through. They just have so many ways to win. Like with no KD. Right. And you get a good Steph Curry game.

You get an incredible Dremon game. It wasn't a particularly good shooting performance from Clay Thompson. And those are your only three guys in double figures. And then Steve Kerr looks at his bench and he goes, all right, everybody's playing tonight. He played 12 guys in the first 15 minutes. Like in the first two rounds, it was basically like we're going to super overload with our five starters and we're going to go to war with them. And that's going to be it. And now he's like shuttling in Jordan Bell and McKinney's getting minutes and Kevin Looney's become a thing and Jerebko.

And it's like, sure, man. Like not only can you just crush people with just your stars, but now you've decided to like beat people by shuttling in your reserve players. And it's like, give them a chance. Is this Steve Kirk getting cocky and showing that I actually am a great coach? And for all you people that say I just roll the ball out and let this death line up, destroy everybody, like I can actually coach this game a little bit. I think it's necessity, and I'll never say bad word about Steve Carr because he fills my reporter all the time. I love that, dude. All right, before we move on, because that's probably enough Western Conference talk for this,

before we move on, what are the chances that whoever comes out of the Eastern Conference can make it a series with the Warriors? I mean, we're talking automatic sweep. Do you think they can steal a couple games, or could it actually be a series for once? I think it doesn't matter because the Warriors are going to win. So ultimately, it sucks, but that's where I've arrived, is that even if it goes to seven games. Like, this is how I felt about the Rocket series last year that gets brought up by the people that someone's going to tweet this at us when we're talking about, what do you mean inevitable? The Rockets had them on the ropes and then missed 27-3s. Listen, it's easy to say now in the moment, but I swear to God, as I was watching that game, even as the Rockets had the big lead, I was like, there's no world in which the Warriors are not winning this.

That's just, that's just the point we've arrived. You have to see, you have to see him get punched and fall to the canvas and get back up. And I guess we kind of got that with the calves beating them in 2016. And that's what made it so exciting. And then Kevin Durant ruined the goddamn league. And so I know, Hoyers. And it's like, oh, okay, so never mind. Yeah, KV wasn't on that team.

And also a lot of weird shit had to happen in that series up to and including. And especially the fact that Draymond was like his brain locked. And he decided to punch LeBron in the nuts and got suspended for game five and everything changed. So like, there are a number of variables then that we don't have now. I just think like, I'm not even joking. I'm not even trying to use hyperbole here. I honest to God, if the Warriors were down 3-0 to start the NBA finals, I would still think the Warriors would win the NBA Finals.

I would still 100% bet on the Warriors to win the NBA Championship. I am not even joking. That's just the point I've arrived with all this. And I'm not a Warriors' hater at all. Like, I do enjoy watching them. It's just, it feels absolutely inevitable. And that kind of sucks. But yeah, like Tate said earlier, like I think for me, it's like,

I wouldn't say it's fun to watch them because it is inevitable. But there's definitely with the rant out, there is that nostalgia part that takes me back to the early days of this run. where it was fun, and you saw an open-ended and the ball moving. It's not that now. Tate, what do you think? Do you give the Bucks or potentially the Raptors any shot against the Warriors? I was going to say, I think with Durant, the Warriors had much more of a chance to be the O4 Lakers

where we're just too fat and happy at this point. And we're so full of ourselves that we get, once we get there, we kind of blow it all up and we're not happy with each other. But now the mission has changed. They've become sort of the underdog again, at least in their terms, even though we all know that they're not the underdog. they still have Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, and Draymond Green. But now that that's the case, I think that makes it even worse for a team like the Bucks.

And the mental advantage that the Warriors have over all these teams that are left, maybe Kauai and the Raptors, I guess just Kauai independently is a little bit different. But just the championship pedigree that they have over all these guys that they'll play against, I think that plays a big role mentally. And I think that does a lot in the playoffs, especially in the finals, once we get to that point. And I think Yonnas will disrupt them from the inside out. And I think that's what I wish Nurkich was playing for the Trailblazers. So they had, you know, at least, you know, Jones has to guard somebody or Bogot has to guard somebody in the paint.

And I think Yannis will make them have to be more honest. But regardless of if Durant is playing or if he's not playing, I feel it being like a 2012 final situation where, you know, maybe it goes five, six games. But at the end of the day, the Warriors are the better team. They kind of tie a bow on this dynasty, this era of whatever the warriors are. And then we get to the summer and we figure out, is Clay going to come back? what's going on with Draymond, where does he stand, and then obviously where is Durant going to go, or if he's going to come back, people don't know.

I really hope not. I really hope he doesn't come back. I'm already fantasizing about him in New York, with or without Kyrie. It doesn't matter. As long as he's gone and there's like some semblance of what happens now, which brings me another reason why I brought you guys

and transitioned to the lottery talk, I want to see what would happen if the Knicks end up with KD and who they pick with the third pick. But I want to talk to you guys because obviously you're a college basketball, guys, clear winners from the lottery, the Pelicans. They're going to pick Zion, who there was a quick moment there where people were like, oh no, what if Zion doesn't want to go there?

What if he goes back into the draft? That's madness. He's going to go to the Pelicans and we'll see what happens. What happens after that, though, is interesting. Who do you think the Grizzlies would take? Are we looking at J. There's definitely Jaya. It has to be Jaya, right?

I mean, first of all, he's the second best player in the draft, but beyond that, the Conley situation in Memphis. Let's talk about your guy. How would that work with Mike? because Mike seems like a good dude. I don't know him. You're best buddies with him. But would he be cool with being a mentor in that situation?

Mike would be cool with being on the court with literally anybody. Mike, me, you, Tate, and Isaac. We could go out there and Mike would find a way to make it work. Yeah, Mike will be fine. I think as it pertains to the Grizzlies, I mean, it's no secret that they kind of want to trade Mike. I don't think Mike, I'm not sourced when I'm saying this. I'm not breaking news, but like I'm guessing Mike wouldn't mind playing on a contender. He loves Memphis.

obviously spent his whole career there, all that kind of stuff. But he's aware of the trade rumors that happened this past season. And when Marcus saw got traded, he kind of thought he was going to get traded to. There's that lingering. And the fact that John Morant, who will run the point for the Grizzlies, falls into their lap right as Mike Conley is ready to transition out. They're kind of figuring out a way to get rid of him. That's absolutely perfect.

And not to mention, like, a small market, like someone who grew up in Indianapolis and lived in Ohio for so long. And I always have the soft spot for the small markets in the NBA, especially as all these, the player freedom, the guys are moving to the coast and all that. So I have the soft spot for the Grizzlies and the fact that they can get a guy like John who is every bit as exciting as Zion in terms of just like highlight plays to get a guy like that and make that franchise relevant because that's a huge deal.

They're like they landed him and not a guy like Cam Reddish who could be very good in the NBA but like doesn't have the pop that like John Moran's going to have when he's cocking it back from below his waist and dunking on people. And then he's in the same timeline. He gets to grow with Triple J and like all of a sudden now you've rebooted the Memphis Grizzlies on the fly. and that's pretty awesome. Hey, what about you for, let's say, the Knicks?

I know that R.J. Barrett had said that he wants L.A. or NYC. Do you like him there? Like, would he fit with P.D. or Karee? What would happen there? I was going to say this. If I'm Zion Williamson, I am putting out through my people that R.J. Barrett is better than me, and he should be the number one pick. Just so that R.J. can go to New Orleans and be the number one pick like he always wanted.

He can do that. And then Zion can go to New York or L.A. and everyone's happy. But in all seriousness, I think New York will probably, you know, they were obviously going to take RJ or I've seen DeAndre Hunter in some boards.

Maybe Cam Reddish sneaks up there. In my mind, it makes sense for New York to take RJ. I think he's the third best player on the board as far as the superstar potential in this draft. And then from there, I think the Lakers will take Cam Reddish, get LeBron's guy in there,

get the clutch guy in there and see if they can develop another 6-8 guy under LeBron, maybe try to trade Brandon Ingram and get Reddish to replace him. You know, we'll see what happens with that. Or LeBron may want the Lakers to trade that pick. I think that's an interesting conversation. But you mentioned John Moran and Memphis

looking for a Mike Conley replacement. I think that they're going to draft a point card. And I mean, I love John Morant's game. I'm not sure he's the best point card in this draft. I think if they're looking for a point card, I look at John Moran, Darius Garland, or Kobe White, and then I'd figure out which guy like the best. And then maybe trade back if you don't think you need to

take him in two. He's making faces over here. Well, no, that was the, I was going to bring up Darius Garland. He's a guy that college guys like you and I Tate didn't see a lot of. Would he tear his ACL? Or is an M. Torr's knee up. That's all that matters. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a doctor. We know it was his knee. Didn't play. Vanderbilt goes 0 and 18 in the SEC.

Their whole staff gets fired. Fire their coach. Anybody, any player that is good enough to get an entire staff fired because he's not there. This happened to Cada Bates Dio. He missed the entire season at Ohio State and Dadmata got fired. Anytime guys like that come along, they have my attention. You're a good basketball player. If you can make your presence, like Vanderbilt, I think they were ranked to start the season. I think they were preseason. And if they weren't,

Yeah, they were. Yeah. And then this guy tears up his knee and they go 0 and 18 at SCC. So, yeah, we didn't see a ton of him, but like everyone I've talked to and the stuff I have. I mean, obviously, I've watched a little bit of his game. But like, everyone's going nuts about him. And that has my attention that all these people that are in the draft circles and stuff, they keep coming to me and they're like, what do you know about Darius Garland?

I'm like, he played like four games at Vanderbilt. So not a ton. You probably know more than me. I was going to say there's a chance that we get, everyone thinks it's going to be three fords that go, like Zion, Reddish, Hunter, Culver, all these guys are going to be in top five. But there's a chance of there could be three point cards that go in the top five with John Morant,

Kobe White, and Garland, all going in the top five. So that's something to keep an eye on too. I'm definitely interested in what you mentioned about, you know, if the Lakers go with Reddish or somebody like that, the interesting thing with the Lakers, well, there's always an amazing, interesting thing with the Lakers because there's such a shit show.

But they decided that they're not going to replace Magic Johnson. And I guess Rob Polinka is still running the team, but then there's also been this whole thing about Linda Rambus being the shadow owner and Kurt Rambas having an outsized influence over Jeannie Boss and like then you've got the whole LeBron situation and then you have to factor in clutch's influence over the organization and also they're still trying to grab AD and I'm going to sum it up this way. God bless whatever kid ends up in that situation. Why are we, this is my question. Why are we pretending that the Lakers are going to draft anyone and bring them in when the LeBron move is the trade to pick and then with a bunch of players?

And then sign Mike Miller and Shane Batti. And roll with that. And like Mike Miller's like, Yo, I'm coaching at Memphis, and he's like, I don't care. We need you, Mike. Godspeed to the Lakers, and they're not draft pick then. All right, before we wrap up, because it's Sunday night and Isaac will be cutting this thing immediately afterwards. I wanted to play a quick game with you two, and you could play it together. You could have different answers. It's up to you guys.

But I want you to rank the following ringer podcasters as basketball. Oh, my God. Okay. those ringer podcasters as basketball players are Vince Carter, Kent Baysmore, J.J. Reddick, Mark Titus, and one Bill Simmons,

who recently announced on his podcast that he's coming out of basketball retirement and getting in shape to which Joe House responded, why, which is fucking incredible. So put those in order from worst to best. Actually, let's go from best to worst. So Bill's getting back in shape to play in the ringer pickup game.

Yeah, he's going to, And also maybe the Drew League he said. I think it would be perfect. The people around the ringer have been trying to get me to play in the ringer pick up game as well. But I'm trying to feel it out. I need to know what the game is. I need to know how good the players are, all that kind of stuff. I think it would be hilarious if when Bill makes his comeback, I decide that I'm going to play that night and that I discard Bill.

And that would be great. I think I'd like to have both of you. You know what? Since you're in this, since you're in this, let's have Tate start. Yeah, we should definitely get that set up. Yeah, Bill was supposed to play in the Drew League. two summers ago, but he said he had to get in shape.

So I guess two years later, that makes sense that we're at that point. Actually, let's put you in there, too. You have to write you both of you guys are on this list. So now we've got Tate as well. Okay, well, Vince Carter's number one. I'm going to put JJ number two,

which is like a respected JJ, because I love O'DU, Kent Bazmore. I put Bazemore at the three. And then, because they're all the NBA players. Then Mark Titus, then a long drop, and then myself, and then an even longer drop,

and then Bill Simmons. I would agree. Don't get fired. I would agree with this order. Bill will be our GM, our coach, he'll be everything. He's like our, he'll be our Bill Russell. That's how we'll play it. I'll say this about Tate, and people think I'm just trying to be nice. And if you listen to One Shining Podcast,

you know that I would never, in a million years, go out of my way to be nice to Tate. So this does carry some weight. Tate is much better at basketball than the general public believes. I've played with him. How many times will we play Tate? Like seven times maybe. That many.

Something like that. There have been a handful of times that Tate has been better than me. that I have no problem admitting, like, damn, dude, you outplayed me today. He was better than me on those specific days. Now, a lot of it is just that all I do is Jack 3, so if I'm not, like, hitting shots, then I'm worthless. But no, Tate is actually better than you think. Having said that, I still put myself above him. Yes, of course.

You play D1 basketball. There's no shame in that. I like those rankings. Make sure to listen to these two. The draft is coming up. We had the lottery and the combine, and the draft is coming up. And I'm sure we're going to do more crossovers. But listen to them on.

One Shining podcast on Tuesdays. And as the draft approaches, and then afterwards, we'll figure out some other collaboration between our two podcasts where we can revisit this nonsense. I'm just so thankful that you pick those podcasters because when you laid out the premise,

I was really worried we were going to get like Juliet and... Oh, Juliet can dunk. She's got hops. Shouts to Juliet. Shouts to everybody at the ringer. Make sure to listen to these guys every Tuesday. Titus and Tate, you guys are the best.

Thank you. All right, that's the double bag, boys. we thank them. Make sure you listen to One Shining Podcast. I also want to thank my producer, Isaac Lee. I want to thank all of you. Please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts if you would be so inclined. Also, make sure to check out all of our excellent content on the ringer.com. Like I said, at top of the show, lots of Game of Thrones content and then plenty, plenty of NBA playoff stories as we move forward. And don't forget for your listening pleasure, the mismatch on Tuesdays, corner three on Wednesdays, group chat on Thursdays. We'll have some

postgame micropods. I've been doing a couple of those. Chris, and Barrier have been doing a couple of those. So be on the lookout for those in your feed. And Isaac and I will be back next Sunday for Monday with Heat Check. Thanks for listening, gang. Bye.