The Ringer NBA Show - The Ringer NBA Show Post-Draft Special

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

The Ringer’s draft mavens Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and J. Kyle Mann convene the morning after the 2020 NBA draft to go over the top three picks (1:00) as well as the picks and trades that most intrigue them (32:00).  Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, J. Kyle Mann Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Kevin O'Connor on today's episode of the Ringer NBA show. We got a draft special with me, J. Kyle, Mann, and Jonathan Charks. We broke down a lot in last night's draft, including the top three picks with Minnesota, Golden State, and Charlotte. And we went through the rest of the draft, talked about our main takeaways, surprise picks, and some of the trades that we liked that could shift the championship chase. All that next. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show, post-NBA draft special. I'm Kevin O'Connor and today we got J. Kyle Man and Jonathan Charks from the ringer.com. How are you guys doing this morning?

Great. KOC, are you at a comedy club right now? Going to give us a routine? They're making fun of my, for the listeners of the podcast, with audio only. I have a fake brick wall behind me instead of the green screen right now. I think it looks really good, actually. It looks very professional. What would your stand-up routine be about, KOC?

Would it just be, you know? I would never try to do stand-up. Would you guys do any stand-up? for either of you? How about these teams that should blow it up? So this shows you how old I am. I was graduate in college 2009. So like 2010, I was living in New York City.

I did it for like six months at Open Mic's. Wow. In New York City. Is there video anywhere of this? I think I have a couple clips. I might on some old computer. I can send them to y'all maybe. I don't know if they're appropriate though, right?

Like they're probably problematic at this point for 10 years. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? It's a long time. We're not going to ask you to dig those up charts today because you're running off of no sleep. You've been working on a story all night about the Minnesota terminals, but you do have to get that for us after you get some good night rest. So what we're going to do today is we're going to go through the top three teams, Minnesota, Golden State, and Charlotte. And then we're going to look throughout the rest of the draft and talk about the picks that surprised us or intriguing Triggs.

And our biggest takeaways from the rest of the night. But starting off with Minnesota, you know, number one, they drafted Anthony Edwards. which comes as no surprise if you've been listening to ringer pods over the last month. However, Minnesota did also trade the number 17 pick to acquire Ricky Rubio, their former longtime guard and they got two first round picks with that, number 23 and number 28, where they respectively took guards Leonardo to Balmorrow and for Jaden McDaniels. Let's start with you. Like I said, you worked on that story all night out today on the ringer.com.

You've been in deep when the Tibberwoolf. So we're especially curious here. How do you think Minnesota came out here? What's your biggest takeaways for the wolves in their draft takeout and their draft picks? I will say they really sold me on Edwards. Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. Gerson Roses gave me the background story on it. And I think he made a pretty compelling case.

For starters, Edward is bigger now. He's grown over the last eight months. So his new measurements, he's 6-6-2-30 with a 6-10 wingspan. So he's got legit like small forward size now. He's grown, I think, an inch and just kind of filled out. a little bit over this time. He's so young. That's not that big a surprise. Those are elite wing measurements when you combine them with the explosiveness.

And yeah, I mean, those are, those are a lot of boxes to check. Yeah, and that's what he was saying. He was just like the physical tools are really, really remarkable and probably underplayed a bit in terms of just his potential right off the top. Well, and clearly Minnesota tonight, they dropped a three big guys. Anthony Edwards, he said now six foot six, Balmorrow, the point guard they drafted at 6'7, and the McDaniels late in the first round at 610. To me, it's apparent that Roses is trying to build what could be a very big and very skilled team.

Russell and Edwards, Russell, 6'5, Edwards are apparently now 6'6, Balmorrow, 6, 7, throw in towns at 6 foot 11, a perimeter-oriented big man. And if McDaniels was able to work out, he's a very raw prospect out of Washington. But the upside there, that's like a five-man. you know, four guys and that unit can switch and Russell at six foot five, if he actually starts trying on defense, can hold his own against a lot of guards in league. That could be a very scary five-man unit with a bunch of guys who can attack off their dribble. And obviously, though, with Edward Stark's, you know, you said you feel like you're drinking the Kool-Aid.

What did the Kool-Aid taste like? What are the things that they were saying that they liked about him that makes you feel confident this was the right choice here? Because there were many people that thought it should have been Lamello Ball with the playmaking ability. There are people who thought they should trade down and try to target somebody else. So with Edwards at number one, the people who question the pick around the league would say it feels like they're stuck. They just can't find a trade. There's no choice here, but just to take Edwards. So what made them feel comfortable to actually do this here and how do they project him moving forward with Kat and with Delo?

I think a couple things. So first, they looked at it like looking purely at this one season at Georgia is really the wrong lens to look at it. when you consider he reclassified a year of school. So he really should have been a freshman in college this year. So this last year was all a bonus. He played in a really bad team and a really bad structure that didn't really accentuate his skills. On top of that, he actually only started playing basketball full-time three or four years ago. So it's just little unfair to expect him to be right away dominant at the college level.

So you look, okay, bad fit in college. He's going to go to the NBA and a great fit in the NBA. So you have cat at the five, Russell at the one. And the quote that Gerson gave may really enjoy said, DeAngelo and Carl are high IQ and feel and skill. Edwards is the guy who is the brute force explosive athlete. So it's kind of like this synergy effect. I think they're going for here.

It's like a yin and yang thing where the things that Edwards needs improvement on, Towns and Russell can help them with. And if things Towns and Russell don't have, like that pure athleticism, Edwards kind of adds that to the mix. That's an interesting way of looking at it because, you know, with Edwards from a basketball standpoint, it makes a lot of sense. Russell is averse to contact around the rim doesn't draw many fouls at all. I believe last season he ranked all time as, you know, of guys that attempted over 18 shots per game, he had like the lowest free throw rate of anybody ever. I believe that's stuck throughout the rest of the season.

And with Carl Anthony Towns, obviously he can play on the post. He can roll down the rim if he needs to. but primarily he's one of the best shooters in the league, you know, off the triple or off the catch for you. And Edwards is the guy that long term could be the player that's attacking the rim, drawing falls, finishing inside. You know, he could be your downhill force and your bruising guy, like Gerson said. So it makes sense to me. I think the real question mark is I look at that ESPN story that went viral the other day, you know, where Edwards basically said he'd rather playing the NFL, the NBA, doesn't really love to watch basketball. That scared some people off.

The quote that really stuck out to me in that story was from his coach at Georgia, Tom Crean. He said that he feels like Edwards needs hands-on coaching and veteran leadership. And the quote was, that scares me, frankly. It scares me that you've got to put some time into him, real time into him. So, Kyle, with that quote in mind, from a basketball perspective, there's a lot to like there. But in terms of the leadership aspect and the developmental aspect, how do you feel about the situation for him with Minnesota? Well, I mean, it's going to be an opportunity for Kat. You know, Kat's aging into this time where he's been in the league for a little bit. So now it's like, okay, you've learned the rope some and you can start to prove yourself.

But I don't know that that mentoring, we've talked about this several times. It doesn't necessarily have to come from the stars. It's good if culture trickles down from the top, typically, I think, in the best situations. your best player to dictate the culture on your team. But I think that, you know, Rubio is kind of an interesting addition in this case because if you look at what Ricky Rubio did and the son and Sun's fans were really pleased with him from a cultural standpoint because he came in there and you could just see the overall professionalism and sharing and energy on that team improve when he came in. And I think that Rubio could be some of these guys just need to learn to be professionals.

And you were talking about sharks that that's something that I don't. I don't think I heard his reclassification get mentioned. I don't eat. It's under five times in this whole process. You just didn't hear people talk about that. And something that people don't focus on a lot is just age with these guys. You know, some guys come in and they're 23 and they're ready to play. Some guys are, you know, just haven't had the same experiences or the same structure.

Like, he played it like Holy Spirit Prep, I think at a school, which wasn't like a major. Isn't that the school where he played in Georgia, Charks? Not sure. It's a prep school. He didn't play at one of these Mont Verde, so he just doesn't have the same structure. So his upside is high. Yeah, like you said,

if he can, if he can like get, and he didn't really have an impressive free throw rate in college. I don't know how much he was spurred to up that. So I think that he adds that kind of balance. Yeah, I mean, I think that he ended up being the pick that they had to make. Yeah, Kyle, I think that's a really good point about Rubio. And that's something Rose has talked about a lot to me is,

it's kind of funny because sometimes you get this idea, the leader doesn't have to be the best player, but it can't be a scrub either. He's still got to be good, right? Like, Rubio is still a starting caliber guard, and he's one of the best leaders in the league, and he can still command respect because he's still a good player.

And I think, like, you look at Minnesota, if you go back to when Kat first got there, they had this idea, I'll pair Kat with KG and Levine with, like, Tashon Prince. But it didn't really work because all those guys were to end their career. Rubio's still in the fat middle of it, And that could be really, really important for Minnesota. Does culture and chemistry seem to be a priority for team building with Roses Charks?

Because I ask that because he comes from Houston where Darry, as I think unbelievable, he is as a talent evaluator, sometimes I feel like the chemistry aspect and the value of continuity with teams was a bit lacking at times with the change over year to year. Do you feel like in your conversations with Roses, do you think that there's a, an emphasis on building that chemistry and that camaraderie together over the course of time with these young guys and maybe bringing in more of those veteran examples. Yeah, I think you mentioned the Rubio thing, I think. Because like every GM will say the right things, right?

You look at a judge them by their actions. And I think trading for Rubio, that shows that he at least values it to a degree. And he did mention, too, like free agency, they'll be looking to add kind of veterans in that range because they should have some. should have some money to play around with. And I think worth pointing out, too, about that ESPN article, you know, everyone focused on those quotes. But his story is really kind of crazy. It's pretty inspiring. Like, his mother passes away. His grandmother passes away at like 14. He has to kind of fight it on his own, figure it out. And honestly, I also disappointed in the online reaction.

It's like, this is a really raw, vulnerable story. And everyone picked out the one quote that made him look stupid. And really it's like, this guy's an 18 year old kid who lost his mom. Like, I don't know. I didn't really like that. And I think the wolves talked about it a lot. They felt like it showed character when he kind of pushed through that. Some people just develop slowly in life, not just on the court. I mean, like, I think about myself at 18. If my actions had been scrutinized, I would just, there's no telling where I would be, honestly, because I was just sort of an immature shithead. And I'm not comparing that directly, but I think we should just be careful. You know, the public discourse when we're talking about these kids' character is just extremely reckless,

and I think you just have to be careful. And I know I've talked a lot about his potential. I've worries about his interest, and that's fine. You know, if his interest isn't basketball, that doesn't make him a loser. Like, it's just, he might not be into basketball. Yeah, I'm with you guys. I think when it comes to the character aspect, it is really the secret to finding out which players are going to develop, how they're going to respond to the lifestyle of, you know, being an NBA player and the pressure of being on the road for maybe,

up to 10 days sometimes and all that comes with it, all that comes with it. It's a very difficult gig for a young kid to take on. But ultimately, when people were looking out those quotes this week, like, I get it. Like, it sort of supports the concern that people had him about, had about him character-wise, but he's still just a teenager. And he's also never had structure around him throughout really his entire life. You know, losing his mom and grandmother within eight months of each other to cancer, having nothing really around him to support that. And, you know, really for the first time at Georgia with Tom Crean, having coaching there, like real coaching and being held accountable. Now with Minnesota, I hope, you know, they build enough infrastructure around him to Crean's point

about, you know, investing in him, putting time into him. They took him with the number one pick. They're going to do that. And they're going to invest in him. And I'm rooting for him to succeed and continue maturing from, you know, a teenager, a teenager. Let's remember that into a man. And if he does that and somebody who becomes a player who locks in more often on defense and, you know, makes better decisions on offense, what you're going to find is a really, really smart pick alongside the Angela Russell and Carl Anthony Towns. And I'm sure at number two with the Golden State Warriors, there's probably at least a little part of them with the news that Clay Thompson suffered some sort of leg injury. We don't know exactly what it is yet. He's undergoing an MRI today as of recording. it could be serious. There's reports that say it's related to his Achilles.

Woge said last night, there's a chance he doesn't miss the entire season. Let's hope fingers crossed that Clay is going to be okay. But, you know, Golden State did take Memphis Big Manning James Wiseman with the second pick and they had two second round picks in which they added Arizona's Nico Mannion and Boise State's Justinian Jessup, two shooters, which I wonder if that played into the decision after maybe losing Clay. Kyle, you know, with the Wiseman pick, obviously what has happened with Clay puts a damp run the whole night. But if I'm a Warriors fan this morning, looking only at the pick, I'm feeling pretty good about bringing in a big man like Wiseman into that situation with all those shooters around him.

Yeah, I mean, he's the most high upside big man that they've had on their roster in a while. I mean, he's, yeah, I still don't, I don't know that Clay being out really impacts his identity or who he's going to be within their organization. And we've had a lot of conversations about our expectations for him. He's another guy that his idea of what he's going to be going forward is going to be really key, I think. And his ability to sort of move in space defensively, I think, is going to have a big impact on his value too. His rim protection, but he's got a good motor. I believe in his face-up game a little more than a lot of people, I think. I do think that he's going to be able to hit open threes at some point, maybe lower 30s percentage.

but not much of a decision maker. I wouldn't say as a playmaker. He's definitely just, and not really much of a crafty guy around the rim. Does that hurt him in Golden State? You know, not much of a decision maker, not very crafty.

I hear that and, you know, that's what I think, oh, Golden State emphasizes quick decisions. Does that hurt him early on in his career there? Or does it help him to be in a situation that promotes and emphasizes that more than anything else? That is integral to what they are. That is part of their DNA in Golden State.

Yeah, I guess you just have to kind of compare the decision expectations that have been put on the guys that would be in his place. I mean, I assume he's going to, you know, like Kavana Looney. I mean, did we really see, is he a better or worse decision maker than Kavanaughan Looney? And he played in the finals, of course, he played on an incredible team. I don't know. What do you guys think about that? I think Kavanaughan Looney, if he's healthy, will probably close games over Wiseman next year.

Judging by Steve Kerr's history, right? KOS, I've got to ask. So in your mock draft, you had the Bulls offering Wendell at 4 to go to 2. So that was a real thing. That could have happened in your opinion. Who knows? I mean, I reported that yesterday. That may have been a piece of it.

It may have been a discussion. I'm not sure like if Gold State said no. Okay. But Golden State said no? No, no. I'm saying I'm not sure if a gold state said no. It just sounds like that something that might have been thrown around out there. For all we know, it might have been Gold State asking that from Chicago.

and Chicago may have said no. Because if I were Chicago, I would say no to that. I was no chance I would do that. I love that. Yeah, that was my thought when I saw that. I was like, wow, if I can get Wyatt Carter and another pick, that'd be an amazing value for a Golden State. And if I'm the Bulls, I'm like, hell no. Like, I want to see, I want to see Wendell Carter with a real coach.

I can't wait to see Carter with Billy Donner in there. I was excited, yeah, just to see Carter in a different environment. I got really excited on that front. So to go back to Wiseman, my question is, how do we think he fits, with Draymond because I've heard this idea like oh, Dremont will be a great coach for Wiseman but I wonder will Dremont just get really frustrated with him and tell him to get up his way.

It's a real question there because with Dremont I think with him I feel like he's going to come back rejuvenated. I've had people tell me they're not so sure in terms of being able to reach 15, 16 levels, that's unreasonable. Prime Dremond

that might be a thing of a past. And If prime Draymond Green is a thing of the past and we get like 70, 80% of him, that's still a good player. But what if we get the guy that we got last season or the year before that? Lacksadaisical wasn't the same guy in the defensive end of the floor to me. That's somebody, the Golden State Warriors are going to have to think about moving. And if you're the Golden State Warriors, I wonder if Wiseman is partially Draymond Green insurance in case he doesn't get back to prior levels or even close to prior levels where then you therefore feel better. about moving a guy who has been part of building what you are. Dremont, I mean, you rank the players however you want.

Steph is number one most important player in the Warriors. Clay or Dremont, number two, depending on how you want to look at it, with Dremont's defensive ability, he was masterful. He was one of the best defenders we've ever seen when he was on the top of his game during those deep finals runs for the Warriors. But he fell off. He fell off. And if he has a wandering eye and wants to go elsewhere at some point,

or if he just loses interest in Golden State, or if he's just not able to get back to what he was, for whatever reason it is, I think Wiseman has to play into that decision long term for the Warriors. Lakeup and their ownership has constantly said they want to be the next spurs. They want to have a winning team for 10, 20 years, multiple decades. And the way to do that is to have guys that can slide into that role. And with Wiseman, maybe that's part of the process because the pieces are there for him.

you can see the glimmers of switchability. You know, he has the size, 7-6 wingspan, 7-foot-1. You know, he has a Rudy Gobert's body, essentially. He can protect the rim, hopefully as he continues to prove his fundamentals and stops biting at pump fakes and all that. The decision-making and reading the floor, as you said earlier, Kyle, that's going to develop for him. But at a minimum, early in his career, he can do like the Javail McGee thing for you.

And, you know, I think he can play right away. How does it impact? I think he thinks he's David Robinson. And that's one of the fears here. I think about what Ryan Rusillo said on the pod with me yesterday before the draft. And he said, our GM told him, James Wiseman at worst is DeAndre Jordan. Does James Wiseman accept being D'Andre Jordan? I don't know that in prime athleticism that he is the same nimble explosive athlete that

D'J was. Prime D'Andre was unreal athletically. He was an incredible vertical spacer. like one of the best ones we've ever had. I don't know that Wiseman's the same type of, he's a little more lumbering in his lower body than DJ. I'm with you there. My thought with the whole Draymond thing.

So a couple years ago, I went out to Denver for a Yokic story, right before Yokic really blew up. And what was interesting was everyone said the importance of Paul Millsap to Yokic. Because Yokic kind of deferred to Millsap at first. He said, oh, Paul Milsap's his All-Star. And Mil-Sept said, no, bro, you're the guy. He kind of built Yokic up.

He took a step back. I think Millsap said, we're not contenting for a title. Yokech was amazing. I think he's the future of our franchise. I'm happy to build this guy up, build his confidence up, take a back seat and let him roll. I'm just not sure Draymond's at that spot where he's willing to do that, or that wasn't enough to do it anyways.

But I think that dynamic would be very important to watch is those two big men. One other thing I want to mention about Gold State is last week, a scout told me that he thought Justinian and Jessup, their second round draft pick should be a first round pick. He called him the drafts Duncan Robinson, which I get it, you know, white dude to white dude comparison. But in terms of questions, it does make sense.

Jessup went second round because of his defense and athleticism, you know, the lack of defense and athleticism, but the shooting. I mean, after that scout told me that, I went back and watched Jessup, like, the shooting is sensational. I mean, coming off the screens and off movement. I was curious to ask you guys, like,

like, every, we have this happen, you know, with the draft is, I call them like comp tractor beams. They're these things like when you start playing it. I love your terms. That's a good. That's a good one. Yeah, I like that. When you start thinking about a player, your brain just goes, oh boy, like, because every time that like, every time in basketball, like a wall gets like knocked down in our thinking where we're like, I never thought about that. And then you're like, who are these other guys? And I think teams do it too. You know, we did it with Dirk in the 2000s. We always do it. And it can be erroneous. Like, and I,

with Bam is somebody that, like, was like this. But also Duncan Robinson, you know, they went and found value somewhere, and you were talking about Justine and Jessup, I mean, who do we, I don't want to get too far on this. I guess maybe we could save it for later, but, you know, who do we think could be the Duncan Robinson's in this draft? That was his opinion. What do you guys think? Is there a Duncan Robinson here? Maybe Jordan Naurah. That's who I was going to say. That's who I was going to say. I mean, he's going to walk. They might need to play them because they have so few guys right now. How about Isaiah Joe?

Another one, yeah. Yeah, there's one too. High volume efficiency, basically, with movement is what we're talking about. And all three of those guys going suck around, I would be willing to bet at least one of them will be a contributor during their rookie season. Justinian Jessup, if not a great shooter is a great Byzantine general name like that. And I'm sure he'll get a chance to also play basketball this year if, you know, if Clay misses any time, which hopefully he doesn't. But we'll see. I'm moving on to number three.

He sounds like a character from Red Dead Red Dead Redemption, Justini and Jess. Did you like Red Dead Redemption, too? Yes. I tried to play it. I was kind of bored by it. Do I need to just power through? Do I need to power through?

It's a masterpiece. I know, it's a masterpiece game. I couldn't get through Citizen Kane. I love, dude, I love the first Red Dead. And Red Dead, too, when I got my Xbox version here, was the first game that I purchased. Oh, I got to play Red Dead too.

I got to play it. Sharks has no idea what we're talking about, but it's good. And I couldn't get into it. Should I power through? God, yes. It's an incredible quarantine game. Like, it's just fun to spend time in that world, which is kind of pathetic and sad,

but it's a great game. I love riding the horse around and, you know, hunting. It's a good time. But anyway, the Charlotte Hornets, the former Bobcats, which you can find,

you know, in Red Dead Redemption. The Hornets took lamello ball with the third pick, And then in the second round, they got Duke Center, Vernon Carey and Charleston point card Grant Riller. Well, Mello, we found his home. And he defines what the Hornets are going to be, uptempo team, flashy, playmaking, charks. There was discussion maybe that he could slip a little bit, maybe to Chicago.

Detroit liked him at number seven. If he went that far, there was talk of Detroit maybe trying to trade up. But he lands in Charlotte. Michael Jordan gave the stamp of approval here. with Lamello going to Charlotte, what are your takeaways of the fit here? And how do you see him developing under James Barigo? I think it's great because Charlotte has desperately needed an identity, right?

They've never really had anything to hold their hat on. The closest was that one year with Kemba Walker or Al Jefferson where they went maybe like one playoff game. Like they just need some excitement. They need someone to build around. And like the worst case for Lamello is he's inefficient and makes a lot of, of crazy plays, but who cares? Like, Charlotte has nothing to lose by letting him do his thing.

And, like, they have everything to gain. Like, people will watch Hornets games now, which I think has never happened. So already it's a big win for them, I think, just purely on relevance, much less the basketball player. Yeah, I was going to say this is going to be the most pop culture, basketball, pop culture attention that Charlotte's gotten since, like, the 90s. This is going to be, because Lamello draws that type of, and you know, that what is that worth, you know, squat basically.

But it's going to be excitement for them, which could be good. But I was curious what you guys think about like, you look at their roster, you know, both sides of the ball. It was fart, sound turd, not good. And who are the pieces on there that you like, you say for sure I want to build around these guys? Like, who do you guys think that is? PJ, Washington.

PJ for sure. Yeah. You're Kentucky guy season. Yeah, really good year there. I mean, Devante Graham, I know everybody loves them. He still shot under 40% from the. floor still needs to improve quite a lot um i like him though i think he's going to be better next to a lamello maybe more in a six-man roll coming off the bench there's a spark plug for you so i'd be

happy to hang on to a devante graham with bridges um i forget where you had him ranked a couple years back charks but with miles bridges do you think a guy like the mellow with his playmaking ability can help a up-tempo transition athletic player like bridges or do you see him still as a guy maybe Charlotte should move off of because he was involved in quite a handful of trade conversations and rumors the last couple months. I've been disappointed in Bridges. I still believe in him, but he's definitely been underwhelming. And I think it was, if I'm thinking about building this team, I like the idea.

I think you've got to play PJ at the five miles at the four. I think if you're doing PJ at the four miles of the three, they're just not skilled enough. And if those two guys are really going to hit, it says like faster guys against bigger players going up a position. So to me, if you go PJ5 Miles 4, Lamello, then draft one of those big star wings in next year's class. I think he might actually have something. And I think it was really good for them. They were being really linked to the wolves at number one.

And I think Charlotte was very smart to not give a pick in next year's draft because they got to keep building. There's much, much more work to be done here. You don't want to start sacrificing future picks? They still feel like a blank slate, don't they? I mean, they have Lamello there. But other than that, I mean, you could add. But whatever it is, if they end up with the number one pick that next year, I mean, they could happily take next year's crown jewel in the draft.

Lamello and K would be wild. Without work, I don't even know. Well, I was going to say there are multiple picks in next year's draft. We're talking about for a local Lama state for what it's worth. Yeah, that you could do a soft reset with your roster and be like, okay, you know, like pivot towards one of them. Kyle, Lamello and Jalen Green, now we're talking. That would be something. That would be really something.

But we're going to do chips for now, I think. No one else who these guys are. Go look up Jalen Green. That offense, that offense would be, I always make this comparison, would be like a kid with his learner's permit trying to drive like a McLanger. And it would be just wild, all over the place, grinding gears. Your metaphor game was on point this morning. I like it.

It's amazing. I'm not sure how your brain makes these connections, Kyle. I just have an associative brain. I think if you watch my stuff, you can probably tell I'm all over the place. But it's actually a curse. It's ADD. So, but I was going to say with those three with Graham, PJ, you look at a lot of the best NBA offenses right now, and if you can combine offball movement

with shooting and creation with a big that's versatile, that can also pop, that can vertical space, that can pass, like a PJ. Like, if you look at, like, McCollum, Dame, and the NERC, and, like, that big guy kind of acts as sort of a connective tissue between those two guys that can score, like Draymond, Steph, Clay. That template really works in the NBA. You look at Miami, Jimmy, you could plug in anybody there, Tyler, and then whatever. But you see what I'm saying. I just think, yeah, yeah. I mean, Miami ran a lot of that three-man game stuff, and it was really difficult to defend

when you had the all-ball shooting. And it's something, it's something for the Hornets. It's something to watch. It's exciting. I like it. It's a great pick. It does seem like that's a template there. I think two more lottery picks.

But there's something now for five, finally. This year for anybody, you know, waking up and they're, looking at like Bovada, looking to make a bet on rookie of the year. Lamello is a plus 390, Edwards plus 480, Wiseman plus 480, then Topin, then Killingh Hayes, then Denny Avvia. Do you guys think in Charlotte, Lamello will rightfully be provided the opportunity? Kyle, you just made your great comparison. Do you think Lamello is probably the favorite here for Rookie of the year with the opportunity

he'll be provided with the Hornets? Yeah, I think that's kind of what it comes down to is opportunity. I mean, he's, we have like guys that have like really efficient good rookie seasons, but don't. And I think we're getting a little bit better about that with the intelligence and like the voting usually. But probably, probably. Like we said, I think that the canvas being what it is is probably going to afford him a lot of opportunity there. Yeah, I would say it's all about minutes and roll. And there's only one other guy besides Lamello, I think, in the running, who I think KOC are going to want to talk about at some point in this podcast.

So I'll leave it at that. Yeah, let's let's move on. to our, you know, biggest surprises or intriguing selections or the trades that we liked most. We're just going to choose two from the first round or the second round or even maybe two-way from after the draft. And we'll get to that after this break. All right, Charks, before the break, you were alluding to my number one ranked prospect, Killian Hayes, French point guard, went number seven to the Detroit Pistons.

people are going to regret passing on him, Charks. They're going to regret it. Talk your noise, KOC. Talk your noise. The Pistons have themselves a pretty nice draft. I think they did. They got Killian Hayes at 7, Isaiah Stewart at 16,

which might be a little bit of a reach, but good prospect. And then Sadiq Bay at 19. I'm happy with what they did. They got 19 by trading Luke Carnard for what it's worth. Hayes, man, like we'll see what they end up doing with Christian Wood. I got a hunch that he's at least got some options out there to go on the move. But with Killian Hayes there, man, I think, you know, with Dwayne Casey and with the other

rookies on that roster, Casey's going to love coaching these guys. They all bust their butt on defense. And with Killian Hayes, it gives them a guy with Star Upside. I'm not sure he'll ever reach it. Maybe he'll just end up a DeAngelo Russell level player. But to me, with the playmaking skill, with the shot creation ability. and with D-Lo with better defense, that's a really good player.

Give me that all day. I think if you're a haze, you've got to be happy because if you're a point guard, you need that rope to kind of make mistakes and not have a lot of pressure, like to win right away. And he gets that rope right now,

this whole year, it's kind of, it's a blank canvas of pistons for him to paint, basically. Yeah, sometimes it's good to just be bad. Like, I know,

like, when Fox came into Sacramento, they were a little hesitant to just outright let him be bad. Like, let him just go out there and learn, And, you know, I think in this situation, the pistons aren't, don't have any, like, short-term pressure to do this or that.

And I like these additions. I actually kind of like saving Lee, too. He's a guy. I compared him to, like, an ish-smith type, like a really physical driver. I think he's a good addition. And I love Sadiq Bay, too. I'm kind of surprised the team didn't grab Bay earlier, honestly. I heard the Spurs really like Sadiq Bay, but, you know, Devin Fasel was on the board for them at 11.

We'll talk about the Spurs in a second, but you just mentioned the Kings and passing there, Kyle, about being able to get. give De Aaron Fox the opportunity to really play and work through mistakes. A lot of people were surprised that Killian Hayes went ahead of Tyrese Halliburton, who did fall to number 12 in Sacramento took him. And I get to tell you, I'm happy with what the Kings did. Getting Halliburton at 12, I love, love, love that fit with the Aaron Fox. You get speed of Fox and feel of Hallibur and two contrasting styles that I think complement each other very nicely.

And in the second round, they got Robert Woodard, who I had ranked in my top 20 and Jemias Ramsey. Charks, I believe you had ranked him as a lottery pick. It seems like under Monti McNair, this new King's front office, I can't remember the last time I said check, check, check on all of their draft picks. So if you're a Kings fan, I mean, I got to be feeling pretty good right now. This is a good first impression from their new GM with what they're doing while dealing with that Bogdanovich mess. We'll see what happens there. But for Sacramento, to me, they're one of the winners of the draft with the hall that they got. Yeah, I mean, you have a new front office, you're always kind of curiously how they do it. And it really feels like

McNair and his guys did a great job. I mean, not a huge surprise. The Mori tree seems to draft really well. So that now it's, you know, there's four Mori GMs now. There's Mori himself, Rosas, McNair, and the guys in Houston. So that's really spreading pretty fast. I like the new Spurs, the world Rockets. We mentioned the Spurs, Kyle. I believe they are your first takeaway from the drafts. I wanted to say one more thing about Halliburton, if I can, just that I want people should to understand. I tried to say this in our Slack. It's just that like to add a player like Halbert, and I was talking, I was talking him up to Jason Concepcion, hoping that they would take, that they would get a chance to get him. But he's just, he's pure offense. And I don't even

mean that in like a scoring sense. It's like he can carry a low usage load and really grease the creation and sharing in your offense. And he's super efficient. I mean, he shot over, I think he shot like 62% true shooting. Andy, I think that he's going to come along as a shooter. smart, smart, smart kid. There's a reason everybody loves him. Anyway, going on to the Spurs, we were talking about this just a couple of weeks ago that the Spurs defensively have slipped

in their identity in the past, like, three or four years since Kauai left. It's just been a slow plummet to the bottom of the league. I think they were like 26th and total points per possession allowed this past season. So it's kind of uncharacteristically, you know, not Spursian to be so bad on defense. And I personally think that they took two

of probably the top three-ish, maybe four defenders in the draft. I think in Vassell, two-way, versatile is going to be able to shoot the ball. And I think that Trey Jones is one of the most clever, like, in terms of like anticipation and ball mirroring and stuff like that, on ball defenders. So it really, I think those are two really good additions for them that are going to help. Yeah, I love the fit with Vassel. It feels like I was talking about synergy with the wolves earlier, but the synergy of Vassel, Lonnie Walker and then Murray Derek White.

That's a really nice guard combo. They all do different things. I'm a big believer in that. Like, if all your good players do different things, I think they're just power in that because your team is more versatile. They're really big on the perimeter. I mean, Murray Vassell, that is a lockdown defensive unit on the perimeter. I'm Derek White too.

Like, they got to figure out their big situation. But I think they've got a good young core now going forward. They definitely do. and for Devin Fasel, he's a guy I had ranked sixth on my board. If I knew he was going to San Antonio, I would have bumped him up a few spots. And reason being, because this is a team that I think they have a proven track record of maximizing a lot of their younger guys. And with Vassell, everybody calls him a 3-and-D player.

And he does have those qualities. He can shoot threes for you on spot-up situations. And yes, he's one of the best off-ball defenders in the draft. He's going to be really good on-ball, too. A little lean, you know, might have a harder time against someone. of those bigger, stronger guys, but that's not his role. It's okay. You'll have other guys for that. He's a great defender. But during a sophomore season at Florida State, he did show flashes of being a guy who can do a little bit off the dribble for you. That's a freshman. He had a

single, just one dribble jumper, just one. And then he had 39 as the sophomore, showing off a tighter handle, looked pretty fluid and comfortable on some leaning jumpers from midrange. To me, like if you see a guy doing that, that capability of doing that, like you don't see Robert Covington doing that. That's not something that he does, but Devin Fasel has that in his bag. And for San Antonio,

I'm sure that they think when they drafted him, I'm sure R.C. Buford in that entire front office there, Greg Popovich, everybody in their, you know, war room is like, at worst, he's going to be a solid role player. But if we can tap into this, there's upside for him to be one of the steals of the draft. And for the spurs,

I trust them to get everything, they can out of him. And he could be a guy that we look back from years from now, like, oh, San Antonio did again, did it again. They got to steal the draft. That's what this could be. Casey, I think what you said there is important, the part about flashes. And I think this sometimes gets lost for folks who don't watch college basketball.

But I got to talk to Patrick Williams for a while doing a story on him. We were talking about himself for a minute. And what he was just basically telling me is like, look, man, the way we played at Florida State was not conducive to anybody being a star. Yes. That's just not a little Hamilton, runs his system. It doesn't work like that. We play 11 guys. We're defensive-minded. We all take shots. We move the ball around. He's like, he told me, he goes, people say Devin Vassell is a 3-D guy,

but I've seen this guy score 18 points to the row in a big ACC game. Like, I know this guy can score baskets. So when you, when you know that, when you know a guy's role on his team does not allow for more stardom, you kind of have to watch for flashes. And that's what scouting is on some level is like watching flashes from toolsy guys and finding it. And when you watch, Watch again like that. You're going, okay, you put in your back of your mind. He does have that potential. Maybe he hasn't shown it in college, but there's a chance in the NBA that will change.

Yeah, we're looking at flashes versus like the certainty of what we call scalability. So like, you know, Vaselle can do that a little bit in small doses. How confident are we that he can do that consistently against different types of pressure or things like that? And yeah, like you said, I think that's something that maybe if you are just flying 35,000 feet over the draft class, you could you could miss that and that's what i love you know just to you know go on to the next player and team fit my favorite team and prospect match is precious achua going to the miami heat with the 20th pick this is a guy that was in strong consideration at the ninth pick to the wizards there was some thought that he could go in the lottery so i was a bit

surprised that he fell to 20 and for him to go to miami he fits a lot of what you're just saying there kyle that the flashes he shows as a guy guy, you know, six nine with a crazy, you know, NBA body with length and, you know, just a huge upper body frame with speed and a mindset that will remind people of BAM in terms of the effort level. He's a different type of player, but he runs the floor like Forrest Kump. It's just fun to watch him play. And with a Chua going to Miami, the questions with him are decision-making. The questions are feel for the game, you know, sometimes fall prone. Miami has done a good job of getting that out of guys.

And for him, you know, to be potentially paired with BAM and a bio, the potential of those two, if Atua can work out, I mean, can you imagine a front court with those two guys being able to switch virtually every screen, defend multiple different types of guys and have Achua who could be a three-point shooter long term spacing the floor for you. and Bama as well seems to be expanding his range for the heat. That's a steel and for a Chua. I don't think he could have fallen into a better situation than he did in Miami. And as we know with the draft, so much of the success or failure of players oftentimes can come down to the environment they go into. And for Chua, he was one of those guys that I sort of held back on ranking too high because I'm like, this is a situation guy and we don't know where he's going to go.

another one. If I knew he was going to Miami, I would have felt better ranking him a bit higher. I think this is great for him. Yeah, I think that it's a great fit because, you know, you were talking about people, Bam. I kind of think that he has more of a chance to fill sort of a Jeremy Grant type role. I'm not saying he's bam. No, no, no, no. In terms of effort. Yeah, yeah, in terms of effort level. I'm not holding your feet to the fire on that. I just... He is more of a Jeremy Grant. I like that comp. I just think in terms of where his shooting is and like what he can be. I always tell people measurements-wise, he's very, very close to, other than weight, he's really close to Brandon Ingram in terms of his standing reach, his wingspan, his size, but he's a guy. I really like it because I'm excited to see what's going to happen with him working with Miami's shooting coaching and things like that just to see how that can come along. And something that, you know, is important in this relates to Wiseman,

is when Wiseman only, he was out of, I mean, he only played like four games, three games, I think. And after that, Precious in high school thought of himself as more of like a dribble, a dribble jumper wing type, like a big wing type if you watch him. It would be maddening. You'd be like, what are you doing? But he definitely shifted in this past year, which tells me that he's malleable and accepted it and his motor didn't change. So I'm excited about that fit there too. Is there any shock that a guy like Jalen Smith went ahead of him at number 10 to Phoenix? I personally liked the pick Jalen Smith. A lot of people really did not. They were shocked by that. how do you guys feel about the decisions by some of those other teams drafting like an

Isaiah Stewart ahead of an Achua, a Jalen Smith ahead of a Chua? Charks, do you think that these teams had logic in doing that, considering their situations and considering some of the weaknesses we're discussing with Achua? Or do you feel like that that could end up a mistake taking a Jalen Smith or taking an Isaiah Stewart? I don't know. I mean, I think if you look at Phoenix versus Miami, right, you're basically saying, because you already have BAM and Aiden there. So it's like who can fit next to Bam or Aiton. And Smith is the better shooter, right? So we're talking about the Chua, like, how did the Bam get unlocked in the playoffs, right?

He was playing with either Leonard Olinick or with Jay Crowder. You've got to have the guy who can really shoot. So to me, it makes sense if you're not really buying precious shot to take Jalen Smith. I personally would rather get a smaller guy who could shoot a done spot, but that's just my, that's just me philosophically. So, I mean, I think it'll be okay. let's talk about the Mavs, man. We've talked to you along and talk about. Yes, thank you.

Come on. They absolutely demolished the draft. They were incredible. First off, was the Seth Curry for Richardson trade, not the best trade, like a win-win? That was like the perfect trade for both teams. They got so much better. I mean, for the mass perspective, Josh Richardson is like the perfect player for Luca. Like, if I could get a guy in a lap I wanted with Luca, it'd be Josh Richardson.

6-6. He can shoot well enough. Great defender. And he's just, like, creative enough. He was overexposed in Philadelphia, obviously, last year. We can all acknowledge that. But in Dallas, Luca commands so much of the offense. Let me put it this way.

There's no guard who plays next to Luca who will be over-exposed on offense. Like, I can promise you that. Well, when you have a decision-maker at that level, you put the ball in his hands. Exactly. I mean, Luca is the man. For sure. So, Richardson is a perfect fit for Luca. I'm a huge Josh Green guy.

They have two, like, now you've got two six, six wings who can guard three positions on defense next to Luca. I look at and I think of the Lakers when they had KCP and Caruso next to LeBron. To me, that's Richardson and Josh Green. I'm, like, thrilled. And he even talked about your guy, Tyrell Terry, KOC. Talk your noise again, please. All I'll say is as soon as, like, Vovata or some site has the NBA finals odds up.

I saw them at plus 2,800 or plus 2,500 today. I will be placing a bet on the Dallas Mavericks to win the 2021 NBA finals. Will they win it? Who knows? But to me, that's great value. And I think they're going to make a deep run because you look at this team. We'll talk about Tyrol Terry and how he fell and, you know, the great selection and the great fit for him with Dallas in a sec. But you look at those additions of Richardson and Green and even Tyler Bay, the guy that they got with the pick that came back from Philly.

This is a roster that's building. It's improving its weaknesses. There were situations last year in the playoffs where Seth Curry was defending Kauai Liner. They were too small. They were too small on the perimeter. Multiple possessions in a row. Not just one on a switch, but multiple in a row, like purposely, because they didn't have a better choice sometimes. Or they couldn't avoid it.

But now you're able to assemble lineups with guys where there's really not a weak link. And when you have a guy like Luca, that's so big and that is your point guard, it sort of relates to what we're talking about a little bit earlier with Minnesota, having a big potential lineup down the line. with Dallas, that's true to an even greater extent because of Luca and what he is as a star, the closest thing that we've seen to LeBron James. Luca is ready to enter the conversation to be MVP this coming season. I bet on that for this year.

I mean, he came in third. I mean, I can't bet on awards, but... Oh, that's why you can't. I can't bet on any awards. But, like, finals, I can bet on finals, and I will bet on Dallas. He had one of the best second seasons ever and one of the best 20-year-old seasons ever.

I think, too, KOC, what you said is very important. So everyone's talking about the Lakers. Oh, the Lakers are so big. I think the underrated thing is they were big on the perimeter. They were freaking huge. They were 6-6, 6-6, 6-7. Like, they had no one under 6-6 by, Rondo, basically. And that's what Dallas is building now around Luca.

Like, when you have Luca, you want perimeter size. Now you've got, we're just in 6-6, Hardaway 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 8, Green 6, get one more big wing. and like, this is serious business. Cleba there too as well. Yeah, 610, KP73. It's a huge team, and I'm all about that. Yeah, I mean, big playmakers are really the thing.

It's one of the things you want the most in today's NBA, because we've talked about a lot about, like, that there's this narrative of, like, size in the NBA, but really it's more about skill and flow of offensive production, like where it comes from. And if you've got a big guy that can put pressure on the rim and see the whole court, that's like the best start.

parting point. Like, I mean, because LeBron, but also I have an AD helps. If you gave AD to Luca, they would win the title. But I kind of with Tyrell Terry, I'm not quite as lockstep with, with like, you guys on Terry. I think it's going to take some time. Like, I think that, you know, if you look, I compare him to sort of a lighter version of Seth Curry, honestly.

I kind of feel like they traded in for like the newer model a little bit. Because I think defensively, it's going to take some time if you watch him. I'm not totally convinced about the consistency of. of his like mobile shooting just yet. So I just think that in the short term, I don't expect a big contribution from him unless he comes in and is just like, you know, just letting it fly and he makes an impact in that way.

Like consistent minutes. I'm with you. He does need to improve still. And that was one of the main focuses in his training the last six, seven months was, you know, fundamentals. You know, you mentioned the consistency of his movement shooting.

He would flail his legs out sometimes and his footwork would fall apart. And that was something that, you know, I noted in the draft guy at scouting notes that that's a negative for him. And it did hurt him at times with his consistency. And, you know, I believe, and when he says that was something that Dave really worked on and focused on throughout this entire process was trying to always be balanced. You know, whether you're coming off of movement, coming off a screen, you know, running from your right to the left, getting open, or whether it's, you know, pulling up off of a dribble. It was something that he focused on. Will it happen in real games? when you're tired, your legs are tired, maybe you fall into bad habits. I don't know. We got to see it. We got to see that happen for him. But I trust the person. I trust, you know, the feedback and the

intel that I've consistently received on him as a worker and his mindset. He was a like a A student in high school. He had like a 3.5 GPA at Stanford. He like always- Was he a reclass? I feel like he was another reclass, wasn't he? Like, I think he. He was always somebody who focused on school first, though. And this is the first, he's one of those guys who, this is the first time he's able to. put it all into basketball. And I look at him and yeah, he's six foot two. Yeah, he's 175 pounds. And yes, there's going to be situations in which he's a defensive liability.

Like you said, he may be the newer model of Seth Curry. But what he has that I think Seth doesn't quite have is a playmaking instinct at a higher level. Yeah. Yes. And Terry, he had that scoring ability. He has that with his shooting ability over 40% from three. off the dribble or off a screens.

He's improved his footwork off the dribble with sidestep three, step back three. We'll see how it works in games. He's not going to be asked to do it or be told to do it early in his career with so much of the talent in Dallas. But he has that. But the playmaking there, if you look back at his AAU playing in Minnesota, he was the orchestrator of that offense. He's the guy who really got them into their sets.

And he's some, he makes smart decisions, makes quick decisions. And he's somebody I would trust to handle that workload. behind Luca or even sometimes alleviate pressure off of Luca when you want to throw in that small guard into lineups. I have a bunch of big dudes. I'm fascinated by the fit. And as soon as they picked Terry, I thought to myself, like, what does that mean for Seth? And then the Richardson trade happened and it all made sense. Every single thing Dallas did last night to me, like, propels them forward very, very quickly, very quickly towards finals contention. Because Richardson can defend perfect goal for him. Josh Green's going to be able to play right away.

I'm going to say, we got to mention Josh Green. It's perfect, man. It's perfect what they did last night. I mean, as you said that, the one thing I ask, is Tyrell Terry confident? Because that's key with Carlisle. Okay, because Carlisle is going to be really hard on them. You've got to be very, very confident as a young point guard. That's very important. He's confident. He's confident. He's confident. And Bay gives them some, some reinforcement, you know, switchability. And he just, he's a great athlete. You surround Luca with those types of guys. But Josh Green has long been one of my favorite guys in this class. I think that he's going to be ready to play fairly soon.

Like I like Josh Green. Charks, is Dirk's old shooting coach still working with the maps? I think he mostly hangs with Dirk, but I don't know. I'm not sure, actually. Just period. Just thanks with Dirk. Because I'm curious with Tyler Bay. I mean, he checks, you know, so many different boxes of what you want as a switchable,

you know, big slash jumbo size wing in the league. The jump shot doesn't need to get better. and he showed progress playing at Colorado last season. But for him, that's going to be the number one question mark. And with Dallas, to me, like, he's a guy that if Dwight Powell post-major injury isn't able to get back, maybe he can slide into a Powell-esque role. But, I mean, at pick 36, I mean, they got great value there. Two good guys in the 30s.

Well, we alluded to it. And I think that we're going to get killed if we don't pivot to this now is how the Sixers just waltzed into this draft. and we're just like, yeah, total makeover in the course of like three hours. I mean, Darryl Moore. Yeah, what did you guys think about the night they had? I mean, hard to knock it.

They really, like, team has looked so different now. There's so much more shooting, right? Tyrese Maxie is like the perfect fit for Ben Simmons. Like, there's a guy, Maxie. That's a situation guy for me. I'd have ranked him a lot higher if I'd go to Philadelphia. If you can play him as guarding point guards, not running the offense.

Seth Curry's going to be amazing there. Danny Green's 3 and D there. I mean, even Terrence Ferguson, like, this roster just makes sense in a way it didn't make sense last year. It's, I mean, it's just good work. It's not more important to say than that. It really is just good work. It's really amazing how almost overnight Daryl Moore took a roster that didn't make sense at all. They're a fun basketball team now.

It was just like. I guess those meetings to him and Elton brand paid off those eight-hour meetings. Yeah. I mean, it's just like. And I think that I just kind of sensed on Twitter and just kind of from talking to people that across, I don't have an NBA team, just transparency with everybody. But I like just from talking to people got the sense that people were just like excited that we finally are going to get to see. I just looked at the Sixers as this equation for the last few years that was just imbalanced. And it was maddening to watch because it just made you think that there was somebody stubborn in the front office that kept steering them towards these decisions.

that didn't make any sense. And Maxie, I've said that Maxie is like, he's like a comic book character that like gains power as he gets momentum. He's kind of like Murray in the sense that like he's a lather score.

Like when he gets going, there may be nights where he has like 30 point games for the Sixers. He's got that little floater when he gets to lane. It's hard to stop when he's going. Yeah. And you think about the creation

that he's going to be able to sort of just kind of weave around and score. I call him like he scores between the gaps. He just gets buckets all over the place. Like crafty finisher and he'll have some space to sort of expand that on a team. It's just a perfect chef's kiss fit. And I like Isaiah Joe and the Sixers too. And Paul Reed was actually a pretty good. Just, you know, why not? Paul Reed's a good risk. I know Mori said Paul Reed is, quote, super underrated after the draft.

And I'm with you there. I think Paul Reed could be a nice find for them that could pan out. They had a nice night, man. Philly had a great night, and it might not be over yet either. And they came off salary too. Yeah, they flipped Horford for green. How did that even happen? I don't get that one. It really, I is, I hope they all got drunk last night because they did.

It's insane what happened there. But the team he came from, the Houston Rockets trading, the number 16 pick with Trevor Areza and 4.6 million dumping that salary. It's unfortunate for Houston that Tillman-Fertitta is cutting salary here. That's clearly the reasoning behind doing the Eriza move. And what's next for them? We'll see what happens with Russell Westbrook and with James Hardin. With Philly, obviously they've been connected to Hardin. To what extent, you know, how far in when you guys go if you're Mori for Hardin? You've got to put Ben Simmons or Joel and Bede, more likely Ben Simmons into that deal.

You know, what more would either of you guys feel comfortable giving in that to acquire hard and with two years left with a third year option, now into his 30s? With some of the question fits with Simmons and Embed, but we have seen, and Mori alluded to this again last night, how incredible they've been, you know, a 1,200 plus minute sample of what they are when they have a shooter, J.J. Reddick, on the floor. Now they have a whole bunch of guys that fit that profile. What path do you think more you should go down here

with the option that could become available either now before the season or at some point in the near future with Hardin maybe being a movable top five, top 10 player? I'd move either one for Hardin. I just think the synergy,

the potential synergy is just too high. And to me, just from what I've heard, I doesn't sound like either one would be like terribly heartbroken if the other guy has traded, Simmons and Embed. So I don't think

it's going to make too many locks. question about it. I mean, I think you have to do it. Especially with MB's health issues, there might be a limited window here. When you have a chance to get an MVP caliber player who, I mean, can you imagine Harden with either one of those guys? Like, just the way their skill sets mesh, it just makes more sense. Like, to me, you have to do it. I'd go Embed. I just want to see, I want to see Simmons with the space to be a creator and with the space to be, you know, more of a fly-around defensive piece. And then you, I don't

know. And if you talk to most Sixers fans, I feel like that is, that is a pretty, I'm not going to say it's the, it's the consensus, but I mean, it's, you hear a lot of people say that. I feel like, but I don't know, what, what, what's your all's read on who they want? Who, who are they more willing to punt on, do you think? It seems like it would more likely be Simmons. That would be installed in that trade, you know, based on, you know, Lee Rumblings, but I see the logic that you're putting out there with making it Embed, especially when you consider his injury proneness. He hasn't had like a major injury, you know, since he was young, but it's still a looming concern, thus why his contract was structured the way it was. I mean, I think trading for Hardin's a no-brainer. We're talking about an MVP candidate

here. I mean, you do that if the opportunity is there. But I don't think they need him to be a real finals contender with the way they've done. I picked them to go to the finals and lose the Lakers last year. I was wrong. I mean, they did not come any close to meeting my expectations for what they could have been for all the reasons we've talked about this past year. I misread that team and how much they didn't fit together. And now you look at this team and it makes a heck of a lot of sense based up what we saw last year. So I think they can do it. I think Simmons and Embed can work with the way Morrie's building this thing out.

But still, if you're able to flip Ben Simmons and, you know, some other assets, like I think now you might feel better about giving a Matisse Stuyble. Now that you have a Danny Green there. you've added some of these other guides. You might feel better about that as an additional piece in that trade. So to me, like that should be something that they continue to pursue, but I don't think they need it, which is a good place to be if you're Philadelphia right now after your moves since more we took over. Yeah, I like, I wanted to throw, I agree with you. I think that they're going to be fun to watch now, which is going to be just refreshing in and of itself.

But I was, I was going to tack something on really quick about the, the, the, the, the, The Rocket, the Rockets actually kind of snagged an NBA player that I think was pretty underrated Mason Jones. I think he's an NBA player. I think he, that was a good pickup, my opinion. I'm glad they added one guy after training and just want to add one thing to Philadelphia. It is worth noting that they do have all of their first round draft picks available to trade. So they are able to put together quite a package if they want to. Well, because when you think about it, if you could trade like Embedder Simmons-Harden, And then all those picks gets you another player.

That's the thing. With the way the NBA is now, having extra picks, it's almost like you're missing one of your bullets in your chamber, right? So you have the bucks, clippers, and Lakers have no picks left. If the net's trade far and they'll have no picks either. So you've got to think you don't really have two moves left. You have your trade, Embed, or Simmons, and trade your picks. Because I'll go back to your original question.

I think the beauty of it now is you can say no picks. If you want to give us Hardin, we'll give you one of those two, but not those two and picks. I think that's important. One team we didn't mention here was the New Orleans Pelicans. They made some additions building around Zion, Wilmson. Charks, I know you liked their addition of Kyra Lewis with the 13th pick. What's your take on? What is now going to be?

And even more exciting team, bring that speed into that situation with Lewis there. I think he's the perfect player for them. I think him and Lonzo Ball, their synergy is really, really strong because Kyra gets into the lane, creates shots. Annie can shoot. They're going to play so freaking fast. It's going to be amazing. Like, Kyra Lewis, the fastest point card in this draft, and all their guys can run.

It's going to be great. As I was kind of just, you know, combing back over this draft, I did want to say really quick, too, the Grizzlies, I think, are just hilariously on brand as, like, the draft nerd Twitter team is picking up. Some of the guys that I thought were, well, let me put it this way. When I was going back over the draft, I was just sort of struck by the fact that

there weren't any, you know, normally in the NBA draft, I feel like we end up in this situation where there's reaching going on. It's sort of like arguing with sharks. You know that there's going to be some reaching going on. Do you like that? Anyway, didn't plan that. But with this draft, I didn't feel a sense of like outrage. Like I looked over the picks and I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess it's just because there wasn't a whole lot of like implied like upside swing talent that could like really affect your situation. Like there are a lot of guys that are just kind of like, we'll just kind of tack these guys on to what we're doing.

Did you guys get that vibe or not? Because I just didn't, there was some reaches, but I overall, I didn't feel outraged by really, well, we got rid of the dumb GMs. Okay. That's what happened. There's no more David Kahn.

No more body, Voddy, that's actually funny you say that. So I was talking to Rosis, and he was complaining about it. He said like, compared to when he got in the league 10 years ago, he said,

all the top 20 boards are the same. Like, he might see one or two guys, but it's where, more homogenous than it used to be. He said things are getting smart with the analytics just is what it is. Are they getting smarter? You said you use the word homogenous.

That just means that like we're thinking the same. That's true. We've been funneled to thinking the same. That's a good point. You just got to get creative and where you're finding your value, honestly. Absolutely. Those guys still do fall. Desmond Bain going to number 30, Memphis scooping him up.

I love that pick. Another year in a row where they're getting a guy that, you know, they got Brandon Clark last year. Desmond Bain at number 30, then Xavier. Tillman just after that in the second round. Memphis again, you know, some nice late picks for them to add on to that John Moran, Jaron, Jaron Jackson Corb. I'm with you, Kyle. Like, there wasn't a lot of picks in this year's draft roll. It's like, what are you doing? This is stupid. There was, I, there's really none of that for me. They got Killian Tillian, Tilly on a two-way, too,

the Grizzlies did, which is a good one. Killing Tilly, if he stays healthy, he could be a really nice player. We'll have a lot more time to talk about these young players in the coming weeks and month stern the NBA season, which is right around the corner, but Charks and Kyle, it's been so fun last couple weeks talking NBA draft of you guys. It's been fun and I look forward to doing more pods in the future with you all. This is great. Draft talk. Love it. Sorry for taking that shot at you, Charks. Never apologize, Kyle. Always move forward, never look back. And thank you, everybody for always listening to The Ringer NBA show. Please do us a favor and give us a five-star rating. listening on iTunes or follow us if you're listening on Spotify, or wherever it is,

share the pod with your friends who love the NBA. That really means a lot to us. Thanks everybody for listening. Have a great rest of your day.