The Ringer NBA Show - The Ripple Effects of the KD Injury, in These Finals and Beyond | The Mismatch

Episode Date: June 12, 2019

Game 5 of the NBA Finals was headlined by Kevin Durant’s league-shaking Achilles injury and punctuated by an unusual number of bizarre moments (4:39). Plus: Teams around the league prepare for movement in the fast-approaching NBA draft (41:33), and the Memphis Grizzlies hire Taylor Jenkins as their new head coach (56:26). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Belvedere, part of a 600-year Polish vodka making tradition. Belvedere vodka is all-natural made with 100% non-GMO Polska Rye and pristine water. Belvedere has championed Polska Rye vodka and superior natural ingredients since its inception and continues their mission with its new Belvedere Single Estate Rye series. These award-winning vodka, Smigori Forest, and Lake Bartasek, are two distinct tasting vodkas born from unique terrar and expert craftsmanship. Much like the expert craftsmanship of Steph Curry. He works for hours and hours and days and days and months of months,

just so we can hit the daggers like he did in game five. Taste the difference and enjoy Belvedere's new single estate rye vodkas on the rocks are in a delicious cocktail today. Belvedere is a quality choice. Drinking responsibly is two. Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O. Bomber, A.k.a. Kevin O. Pompillor, A.k.a. Kevin O. Kavanaugh.

I'm not even on Bumble, Chris. You could drop that one from the list. It was a throwback. I know. I know. Candyland is too. That was like early this season, last season maybe. Sorry to disappoint, ladies. All right. You just got back to California, where you will be set up for game six, and you were at game five, which saw the Golden State Warriors win that game. We were going to get to the game, but before we get to the game, I want to ask you about all these pictures I have seen, and I read about this, like,

unbelievable night that evidently came together for you in the wake of the charity that you had put together. over the course of the last couple of weeks and stellar turnout sold out event raised over $10,000 for dunk on cancer. Tell me about this thing that you guys did in Toronto. It was shocking how quickly it came together. We had a all-star cast with Zach Lowe, Tom Havistrow, Howard Beck, Siritt Sohey, Tim Bond, Tempts, guys from multiple podcasts, Taylor Rooks, all over the place on the internet will lou i mean we had so many people from the raptors and warriors beat um and the national media as well all coming together to raise money at the rec room in um toronto on sunday night we we just had a couple of panels talking basketball talking finals and it was um it was just a really

really cool night and and the raptors were nice enough to um give us a signed kyle lowry jersey and a signed dn e green jersey and and the raffle alone raised three three three thousand dollars Canadian dollars for those jerseys as well as a, we had the starters there and they brought a J.E. Skeets, All-Star jersey, vintage. And yeah, it was just a really, really fun night with a bunch of basketball people all coming together for a good cause. It was beyond anything that I could have imagined when the idea first came to mind. That's for damn sure. So who put that all together? Did you do that by yourself? I worked with Kevin Kennedy who runs hoop talks, Talks is based in Toronto and they do a handful of those type of live events, like watch

parties and all that. But me and me and Kevin Kennedy worked together to organize that and I got everybody together and somehow we almost had too many people. But it worked out great. Just talking hoops and talking about why we were there with Dunk on Cancer at the end with Jeff Zilgit and Fasel Camisa who works in Toronto on Sportsnet. And Jeff Zilgit, of course, from USA Today. Yeah, it was just a really, really a special memorable night for all the Raptors fans and maybe a couple of Warriors fans and general NBA fans that cycle through is we had like 275 people or something like that, Chris. That's awesome. It was really an awesome night, yeah. And a huge shout out to the NBA media brethren that all showed up to help raise money for a good cause.

That looked great. All right. So you've had some time to process. what you bore witness to in Game 5. I, of course, was watching the television broadcast. You were in the arena. And then you have to take a flight from Canada all the way over to Oakland. You got a lot of time to think about it.

I know you wrote the article about Game 5, but when you were left thinking about what you had seen and you had had time to process it, what stands out the most about Game 5? Is it the KD injury? Is it the Splash? brothers coming up huge at the end? Is it Toronto gacking it, you know, with the last three minutes, only scoring two points? What stands out the most to you? I think it was really just the overall

heart and will from the Golden State Warriors in that entire game when Katie went down. Well, first of all, in the first quarter, I was sitting there right next to Danny Chow and Brian Scalabrini, Scalbriney who does radio with Sirius XM with Frank Isola and Scal and I were chatting during the first quarter with KD, just the way he was performing, that's what the Warriors look like. With Kevin Irons spacing the floor, his switchability on defense, some of the defensive rebounds he got or deflections that he got on boards, preventing Sergei Baca offensive rebounds. So little things like that all adding up.

It was like, finally, finally we're seeing the Warriors at full strength with Katie, who looked awesome out of the jump. And then the injury happened. And Scal and I looked at each other with just like a look of disappointment because we're like, okay, it's over. It's over. This series is over. And what could have been a magical night is going to end up being a really deflating one where Toronto wins the title.

And it's, and all that everybody's talking about is Kevin Urnick and hurt. But that wasn't what happened. What happened was the Golden State Warriors just really, really turned it up on the defensive end of the floor. Steph Curry had, in my opinion, one of the best defensive games maybe of his entire career, but certainly of the postseason with the effort he played in man-to-man situations and off-ball situations. Draymond Green was unbelievable, had his best game of the series as well. Igwadala looked like vintage Iggy. Every guy on that roster, including Boogie coming in for KD,

elevated their play to a high level in order to keep that lead that KD helped build early in the game, but then closed it out at the end with just those monster big ball shots by Thompson and Stefan Curry. To me, it was just the Warriors against the wall, and they were able to battle back against this Raptors team with Kauai Leonard coming on strong at the end. It was cool to see them battle against that adversity. That, to me, the amount of heart that they showed was the number one takeaway. And the Raptors helped them out because they did everything they could to not put them away.

I mean, there were a couple of possessions in there where I'm like, yo, I get trying to play against the clock, but this lead is just not safe with that team. and you had a couple of possessions. Look, there was the moment in time where the Twitter sphere and everybody, every human that was watching that thought we were witnessing some Michael Jordan level stuff from Kauai. He just took that game completely over and it looked. It's almost like a boxer's got a guy up against the ropes and he's hitting him over and over and over again. and the guy's about to go down,

but then his trainer stops the fight. You know what I mean? And that's how it felt with the Nick Nurse timeout. It's like, wait, hold on now. You're going to stop this because it really looked like we were in for the moment. This is the Kauai Leonard ascension to just a different place in the basketball world. Like here's when it matters most. it's a home game where they've got a chance to win the title,

and he's going to do this on his own, isn't he? He's just going to bury them, Terminator-style. I couldn't believe it. And then it stopped, and they never got it back, and they only scored two points the rest of the game. And a lot of those possessions at the end of the game, it felt like they're draining, drain, and drain, and instead of just running their offense,

or instead of just giving the ball to Kauai Leonard and getting out of the way, you know, they've got the ridiculous back, but that's at the very end of the shot clock anyway. I mean, at best, they're getting a terrible shot at that point. It felt like they were draining out. They were trying to play the clock rather than the Warriors. And they gave the Warriors the opportunity to make those shots. And listen, you've got to make those shots.

And the Warriors did. But it certainly wasn't the way to put that team away. That's for certain. In a way, the decision by Nick Nurse to call a timeout, first of all, he said after the game he did it because the timeouts would have went away after the three minute mark. So he took the opportunity to take the both of them in order to give his team an extra energy boost. I understand that. I get it. But with that said, as you just mentioned, Chris, they had the Warriors and the ropes there. Kauai had scored 10 straight points for

the Raptors. He was nailing absolutely everything. And it certainly was Jordan-esque with the type of shots that he was hitting. And like that stadium was shaking. I'm not sure if it was in my head that it was shaking, but it certainly felt like it was. It was so loud. I'm not sure I've ever heard Arena that loud after Curry missed the three and Larry brought, Van Vlid or Lowry brought the ball up and then handed it to Kauai. I was like, okay, we're about to get another isolation here. And Kauai is maybe going to hit that magical shot as the dagger. It's the one that's replayed over and over and over as the moment. But this place just exploded knowing they're going to get the title. And then there was a timeout called. And it was just utterly shocking to me. And

again like talking to scowly he's like well maybe nick nurse is calling this because he wants to get his best play call in this game in order to get that dagger its best play but nurse didn't even really call a play they just threw the ball in and ran a pick and roll which was well defended by clay thompson on the play steering kawai to his left there was there was no creative play call that came out of that there was no best decision and it reminded me like when i was thinking about it on the plane today and i was thinking about super bowl 49 between the Patriots and the Seahawks at the end of the game where the Seahawks had the ball in the two-yard line, and you're thinking that the Patriots are going to call a timeout, but they don't. They don't in that situation. Belichick looked across the sideline and saw a bit of disarray on the Seahawks sidelines, some confusion on what to do, and he didn't call the timeout. And they ended up throwing an interception in that play. Had the Seahawks scored, we'd be looking back at that in hindsight,

wondering why the hell do they not call a timeout? results based all the time with how we discuss these things. But nurse's decision to call that timeout sort of reminded me of that moment where he guessed wrong in making that decision. But ultimately, I think you looked at that Warriors team in that moment. They were the ones who were tired. It was the rappers team who was absolutely rolling. It was the warriors that were tired.

Yeah, no, who benefits the most from that time out? And there is no question who benefits the most. You're letting them off the hook. you're bombing them out. You're about to go win the title. Draymond said we were able to regroup and get it together. And Clay Thompson said Steve Kerr called the next two plays in the huddle. And Kerr only had one time out left.

And so he got a freebie in order to call the next couple of plays that resulted in the first Clay three and then the Steph on. It's just a bad mistake. In the end, players make plays, but that's a bad mistake. That was a bad mistake at a critical time where it felt like, you've got the boxer on the ropes. Don't you make the choice to back up? You know what I mean? You're right there.

You've got them set up for the knockout. And instead, you walked away from the flurry. And now they've got a chance to, like, get their wits about them. And obviously we know what took place after that. Oh, what took place after that was really remarkable.

I'm still not over that run by Golden State. And then all the weirdness with the back. court and everything else. What a weird final three minutes, Chris. That was insane. How about two goal tens? A moving screen? Like all kinds of shit you never see.

All kinds of stuff. Like, when is the last time you saw a moving screen called in that kind of situation? When is the last time you saw an offensive and a defensive goal tend? When's the last time you saw a team in a critical possession? Two back court. Because we had the one where we over through Gasol. And then you had the Draymond one. just bizarre, bizarre stuff.

It sure was that game really had everything. And then when in the crowd, when the clock ran out, there was sort of just like a pause. There was just like, wait a minute, the game's over. It was just such a weird, weird game from the start with the KD injury and then that unusual ending with everything you just listed. Yeah. Kyle Lowry, super excited that the screenshot came out of the shot being blocked, I'm sure. Because if that's, if that's a, if that's a, if that's a, if that's a, if that's a

clean shot. That's a rough one. So good for him. We have amazing photography that showed that the ball was deflected, but obviously it wasn't ideal anyway. It wasn't ideal, you know, for that to be what takes place at the end of that game. That's not, that's not what you want to take place at the end of that game. And so, especially with a chance to go win the game,

and that's the shot you get. by the way that block by draymond though to me that that block is so similar to the block that he had on lebron in the 2015 files and overtime of game two where like when people talk about wingspan and the NBA's obsession with wingspan that's why because draymond has a seven foot one and a quarter inch wingspan if his arms are half an inch shorter he's not blocking lebron shot at the rim he's not blocking that lowry three and who knows how history was be different just by the little difference in wingspan in order to reach up and block that shot. It was weird. And this might be a little too long ago for you to remember. I don't know.

But Carmelo, the year that they won the title, Syracuse, they beat Kansas in the title game. And Hakeem Warwick blocked a shot like that to win the game. That's how they won the national title. Was this incredible block. Anybody could go look it up on YouTube. It's this incredible block. and it's like it does not look like he's going to be able to close the distance. And he does. And last night, you know, Dremont is getting pushed, screen, pulled, everything. He's getting fouled incredibly. You know, it's kind of interesting considering, you know, what had taken place with the moving screen on the other end.

Go watch. I mean, he is assaulted the entire time and he still makes the play. It's pretty crazy. It's pretty crazy to watch. Now, let's track back to the KD injury because this has been. been the source of immense amounts of conversation for good reason. It's all anybody's talking about. Yeah.

Well, I mean, he tries to come back. He tries to play in the game. He looks like, I mean, I think if you would have asked any of us as basketball fans, especially after he buries those three threes, it's like, oh, my gosh, we're, we're possibly in for real history here. They came out. They looked like the old warriors. They're scoring a ton of points.

in the first quarter and they're rolling on along and then the second quarter comes and then the injury comes and he goes down and he grabs his heel and immediately everybody knew like oh no what is going on here all right so first things first i questioned greatly kevin how he was out on that court if it was that easy for him to tear his achilles you know there's many times where i've been at games or that I have witnessed games where the injury is a freaky thing. It's like, oh, my God, you know, look how he landed. A guy breaks his leg or a guy lands, you know, very strangely or whatever. I mean, yes, he's making some moves, but he just plants his foot.

And the thing pops. And I don't know if it's a misdiagnose. I don't know if it is the risk management of all of this. But to me, I look at that and go, dude, if it was that. easy for him to tear his Achilles in this moment. He should not have been out on that court. We got the dry cry from Bob Myers. Everybody loves Bob Myers. I don't know him personally, so maybe I don't have the same level of sympathy for, but we got the dry cry from him where he said, you know, if you got to blame somebody, blame me, which is, you know, code for,

you know, like I'm going to make you feel bad if you blame me. But I don't know, listen, I don't care who to blame training staff, him and head of basketball, whatever. To me, if it was that easy for that guy to pop his Achilles, he shouldn't have been out on that floor. And that should be known. It's disappointing. I tend to agree with what Richard Sherman tweeted about earlier today, where he said, I'm just reading his tweet here. Richard Sherman said it really frustrates me listening to current and former players act like anyone could have kept Katie from playing last site, every single athlete, or through weight, dreams of playing in the championship game of their sport, and most of us are making that same decision.

Hashtag stop the BS. I tend to agree with that, where it's like, first of all, Katie was awesome. Second of all, I really don't think the Warriors would have allowed him to play unless they felt some level of confidence that he would be okay. It's different if a guy is medically cleared or not. That's what I am questioning. Okay. If a guy is not medically cleared and he said, to hell with you what you're saying.

I'm playing. All right. I'm playing. But if you are medically cleared at that point, because this is exactly what we went with the Kauai stuff, they kept saying he's medically cleared, he just ain't playing. If you are medically cleared and you're not playing, all of the sudden that puts all the onus on you because then everybody can say, why aren't you playing? He's medical cleared to be playing.

But the fact that he was medically cleared, I get it. Any athlete worth their salt is going to be out there. I'm saying he should not have been medically cleared if it was that easy for him to tear his Achilles. That's my opinion. Injuries always happen. And like with KD, I look at it like this. Anytime you go in to get surgery, there's risk that something serious goes wrong. There's 2% chance of death.

There's 10% chance of whatever. And with KD, even if a player is medically clear, there's still a chance for further injury. Just like right now for Kauai Leonard to be out there with his quad problem, there is risk of further injury by him going out there. And so for Kevin Durant, it's so unfortunate. It's depressing. It really took down the mood in that arena until really the end of the game, I thought, with Katie being out, the fact that he got hurt.

It sucks, man. Like, we've been talking about this for over a damn month. We need to get to the mood of the arena. Here's my opinion. I know the media loves the people of Toronto. I know that the people of Toronto are typically. a great people. You know that everyone that was watching on T. This was a very interesting dichotomy. The people that were watching on TV all turned ferociously on that Toronto crowd that were cheering.

Kyle Lowry, you've got the visual of him saying, hey, what the hell's wrong with you? Calm it down. You've got Clay Thompson mad about it. If you're watching on TV, the guy literally on the front row is waving like bye bye. And you have a group of people that are cheering as the guy is they're injured and yet people that were on site reported a different thing. It was very strange, right? People watching on TV and Mike Breen was even talking about the cheering. And so this became a big topic like, oh my God, like how classless can you be? And yet people that were in the arena that were covering the game, I sensed a different, I don't know, it's like the reporting was different, that it did not appear at least in the arena to you that, that they,

that was necessarily a fair shake on this, that it wasn't an overwhelming amount of people happy about this injury or cheering about this injury. And because, you know, I was reading people saying that there was like a KD chant, and I was hearing people saying that, you know, people are in stunned disbelief and whatnot. And so it's very, very, very odd. The people that were at the arena, the media were much nicer,

about the Toronto crowd than anybody that was watching on television. So explain this. One thing I'm curious about, you didn't hear the KD chance from the broadcast. I just want to make this clear. No. Okay. All right. So let me say this first.

At the game live, when the KD injury happened, I initially did not realize that he got hurt. I saw him fall. I did not realize he got hurt. To me, in that moment, the loud cheering was because the Raptors had a two-on-one fast break and Sergei Baca drew a foul and nearly got an and one. There was cheering for that. And that's what I initially thought it was. And then you realize Kevin Naranis heard.

And then there was a bit of a buzz in the crowd where like, oh my goodness, what just happened? Is Katie hurt? And then maybe about six or seven seconds later, it turned into a Katie chant. It wasn't a long cheer or anything like that. I think the TV broadcast showed a couple of knuckleheads in the front. row that were waving him away that were you cheering the injury just like let's not act like there wait a minute no no wait a minute no wait a minute no there were people and there were also people at

Jurassic park outside video was shown of them cheering chanting fkd after the injury there were a lot of people that were reacting negatively to the injury but all i'll say inside the arena i don't think the initial reaction with the chairing was for katy being hurt it was for the fact that the raptors had a fast break and then there was a buzz that happened after that like what just happened i don't think it was cheering and one last thing on that note sorry for another patriot's you know memory here but it reminded me of i was at the game patriots chiefs in 08 when tom brady tore his ACL and i was sitting super high up in the nosebleeds with my dad and i remember i saw the helmet hit tom brady's knee and in that moment

I was screaming out loud Tom Brady's hurt Tom Brady's hurt and everybody around me was cheering loudly and I had no idea about what because my eyes were just on Tom Brady in that moment

sitting on the ground holding his knee and what happened on the play what they were cheering was Randy Moss caught like a 35 yard pass down the field and then Randy Moss fumbled nobody realized that Tom Brady was hurt on the play

they weren't cheering that Tom Brady was hurt they were cheering what was happening in the play. And so for me, it was, I was on the opposite end there where I saw Tom Brady got hurt. Here I did not see Katie get hurt. I was following the play. And to me, the cheering was about the fast break. There were idiots that were doing that. But for the most part, the far majority of the people on that crowd were not.

I'm sorry. That's bullshit. They were cheering. There were a lot of people that were cheering his injury. And I am not going to judge Toronto or that entire fan base. based upon those people. The people that are cheering on injuries are scumbags. Yeah.

Every fan base has those people. Everyone. Of course. The only one that is totally like that is Philadelphia. Oh, boy. And I say that because when I was... That's not true. When I was a little kid, that crowd went absolutely bonkers when I thought Michael

Irvin that was paralyzed for life. And he was laying on the field. And I have hated. the Eagles ever since because they were booing. And I am kidding, but, well, they did have a jail in the basement of their stadium. That's pretty rare. What I will say, though, is I will not judge Toronto based upon those people. It is the unfortunate thing that comes along.

People lose sight of reality when fandom kicks in. And you want your team to win so badly that you can find yourself. in spots where you even don't care or at worst are happy about your opponent getting injured. And then when you are given the opportunity to really think that through. Here's the thing. You're telling me you didn't hear the Katie chant on the broadcasts. No. Okay.

Is that, but like I'm saying like the Katie chant happened within like eight seconds. Well, that's because you were leading it. Come on, dude. I'm being serious here. I didn't hear a Katie. saying that there were a bunch of idiots in the crowd that were cheering it. No, da. But

people were talking about this like all of Raptors fans are horrible people for cheering. It's like, no, there are people cheering the fast break just like there are people cheering the Ranny Moss catch. The majority was that. It was a bad look, a bad representation

of what is generally an incredibly nice and respectable fan base. But it's true for every fan base. That would have happen in any single city. Any city that would have happened. Listen, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think that Warriors fans sit around pushing opposing players either, but like that dumb ass on the front row, right? But it is the worst, it is the worst of. And unfortunately, if you're watching the broadcast,

it's literally right around KD that the cheering is taking place. And there's a guy on the front row literally waving to him. So it just, the visual of it is horrible. It's horrible. And it's a bad look. Of course, of this. So here's hoping that that was subside. Now, we do need to get to what the KD thing means, Kev, which is he's up for free agency. Now, he has a player option for $31.5 million. So look, that is the absolute worst possible scenario is, oh, gee, somebody's not going to pay him what he would have been able to get in this offseason.

You know, I mean, look, we went through it. He is obviously an infinitely better. player and he is a wing player rather than a big guy, but cousins, cousins had no suitors coming off the Achilles. Cousins had very few suitors before the Achilles injury. Right. So here's what I'll imagine. I will imagine that it only takes, right?

Life is leverage. There will be enough teams that are willing to give Kevin Durant a huge, long contract, maybe even equivalent to what he would have gotten if this never takes place last night. but I don't know. What do you think? It's going to fascinating. As for him opting in, I don't think that would happen because if he opts out and signs a one-year deal, he can earn about $38 million.

So I don't see him opting in. But he's not going to play next year. Nobody's paying him $38 million for one year not to play. Well, I mean, like if he signs a one-on-one type of thing, like, what I'm saying is, like you're just talking about how there might be a team willing to pay him. That's what I'm saying. Like, there would be a team willing to pay him that $38 million, dollars within the first year of the contract.

I would be quite surprised if he were to opt into the deal, considering the fact that money is theoretically going to be out there. We're talking about a guy who is a all-time great player still at his peak powers, even if his play diminishes down to like 70% of what he was prior to yesterday. That's still a really, really good player. Would he be worth that money? I don't know. I hope to God he is.

It's scary because we're talking about a guy. who, like I said, is still at his peak powers and an all-time great player who, for the foreseeable future, had a game that seems to be easily translatable into his 30s because of how skilled he is, because of his shooting ability, because of all the things that he can do on the floor, because of his improved passing ability from the post that he's developed in his three years with Golden State,

there's so many facets to his game that would allow him to sustain success for as long as he wants to play. And so for this injury to happen is heartbreaking. I would imagine that he's, would be willing to pay him for a one year rehab in order to get three years of him after that. I would think so, don't you? Yes, especially with some of these teams that that's their crack at getting the guy, the level of Kevin Durant.

I mean, if you're the Knicks, are you not doing that? Of course you are. Yeah, exactly. And by the way, like, it wouldn't be so bad to suck one more year while you already have Kevin Durant and get a higher draft pick that you could then use to flip at some point. I'm just saying as long as he's able to get back and be at least 80% of what he was. And I don't know. Has it been, like I said, I was flying all day.

Has it been announced like the severity of that Achilles injury yet? Because last I saw was, I believe, Woj said he was traveling to New York in order to get further evaluation on the Achilles. We haven't heard anything about that, correct? No, not as of time of you and our recording. We don't have an update. And we're recording at nine Eastern, six specific. right now. Right. You know, they said an MRI was going to be taking place today, but the last we had heard was that the Warriors thought this MRI was going to confirm a torn Achilles tendon. And so that's what the Warriors thought. awful. Going into this. So I guess anything less than that would be a shock at this point. It is totally awful. And that is a very, very, very, very, very difficult injury to come back from. A very, very,

difficult injury to come back from. And who knows what level he will be at. And it is a very hard road. You know, that's six to nine months of very strenuous rehab in order to come back from that. And so here's hoping that Kevin Durant is able to come back and maybe be the greatest of success stories coming back from in Achilles. Before we move on, Chris, I just did want to say one last thing about KD. I thought Marcus Thompson from the athletic road just to absolutely. sensational piece about Durant and just the heart he showed.

And I just wanted to read two quick paragraphs from it. It's really short because to me, it's summed up my feelings entirely about that performance and the decision by him to play last night. And what Marcus wrote was, there's nothing soft about Durant or weak or cowardly. You don't come from where he comes from, survive what he's been through, make it to the top of his profession with those kind of attributes. Duran is absolutely worthy of his status as one of the all-time greats. Snakes don't do what he just did.

Put it all in the line, probably knowing deep down he really wasn't ready. If he wasn't a warrior, he became one in game five. If people doubted his toughness and courage, whether he was worthy of being celebrated as arguably the best player in the game, what he did Monday silences all that. Actually, it proves he was all those things all along. And to me, that just really spoke to me when I read that earlier. this morning. Because it's true, like, Katie, ever since he's signed with the Warriors

has constantly been questioned, constantly be called a snake and a traitor. And like, it is fun to joke about, like him riding coattails of a dynasty. But you know what, man? I'm not so sure that they win both those last titles without him. I'm not so sure that they're even win last night's game

without him. Katie is the trigger to them having a chance at being a three-peat, the chance at coming back from three to one. the difference he made in that first quarter is what gave them that lead, which allowed them to just maintain it over the course of the game. And that's what helped put them over the top for an actual chance of coming back and winning this whole damn thing. I know there's an incredible homage. He's a great player, very well needed in this series for sure.

But, I mean, he's $30 million on the books. I mean, we do have to take a step back and say, if he's not there, they utilize that $30 million in a different. way. They have proven. How? They can't. They have proven to be great without him, Kev. They come on. Yeah, I know. I know. They beat Houston. They distinguished Portland.

And now they are going to a game six on their home floor. And he's played 15 minutes. And this Toronto team is friggin awesome. So this team is pretty damn. So let's just slow down a little bit on the, right? They're not here without him kind of stuff. because we have seen they have been great. No, no.

To be clear, I mean a chance of a three peat without him. I don't mean here in the finals. I mean a chance at a three peat. That's what I mean. And maybe that's not true. Maybe they would have won two in a row without him. Who knows? I mean, he certainly made them unbeatable.

That's what we do know. Clay Thompson himself said that last night. He said, we're a very good team without Kevin Ernert. With Kevin Ernert, we're one of the greatest teams ever. I agree with that. I agree with that completely. That's pretty fair. Yeah.

So they have to take the very good team into game six because Kevin Durant is not going to be available. You know, I know that you have pushed back on me throughout this series, but I told you from the very start, Toronto can keep these things in a slower pace and a good scoring range that they're going to have a chance. I think most would argue they could have won last night. The Warriors who were average. closer to 120 than they were 100, have failed to even get to 110 points in any game this series. So I do feel like this has been played. The whole series has been played in Toronto's range.

And I think they got hit with the one flurry in one of the games they lost. And then obviously last night, they took their foot off their throat. And Golden State got back up and hit some big, big shots. I don't know if they can win a game six on the road in, Oracle in what would be the last game in that arena. They have proven they obviously can win in that arena. But, you know, I said at the beginning of the series, I thought that if Katie didn't play

four games, that Toronto would win in seven, I think I'm probably sticking with that. I think that it will be on the verge of another one of these greatest comebacks ever. But I don't see Toronto losing three games in a row. I just don't. I think with this series, I have a hard time seeing Golden State losing three. three games at Oracle in a row. I have a hard time seeing them going in there and losing on Thursday night. I think this is going to go back to Toronto. And then you know what? I mean, like, it's anybody's game. Like so much of basketball is like, it's really just simple. Like, which team like has a

harder stretch, which team has a harder shooting performance? Stefan Curry and Clay Thompson on last night's game were a combined 12 of 27 from three hitting some absolute monster three point shots. Dreymon shot well, Iguodala shot well. Boogie had. at a great offensive performance. Everybody shot well on that team, 20 of 42 total from three. You know, if there are any less than brilliant from three, they lose the game.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like so much of wins and losses comes down to just which team shoots better. That's a simple way of looking at it. But that's what I mean. Like, if it goes to seven, like, it's really anybody's taking it. We look at those two games, though. Is this fair? So it's three to two right now.

We look at those two games that Golden State 1. And we go, well, they hit them with that 18-0 run. And even then at the end of the game, the Raptors had a chance. And then in the other game, the last one, I mean, they had a big lead in the 1. And then you have this last game last night where it's like they look like they're going to put them out of their misery. And then they got hit with this flurry at the end. and it took these amazing plays by the Warriors down the stretch.

And then a total gack, when you scored two points in three minutes, that's a gack by the Raptors. I don't know. I don't look at the games and say, whoa, the Warriors really blew that. I think you can look at both of the games and say, damn, man, the Raptors had their chance and they let them off the hook in this. So I would be surprised if Golden State can win this series because I feel like the extraordinary has happened in both. of their wins. I don't feel like anything extraordinary

is taking place in the Raptors wins. Do you? Just felt like they were the better team. I'm surprised that you would be surprised that Golden State

can't come back here. They have one of the greatest players of all time and Stefan Curry. Just like the Raptors have one of the greatest players of modern times in Kawhi Leonardard.

Nothing would shock me, man. This series has been shocks every single step of the way. Why I believe anything less moving forward? Well, I mean, because it was a one point win last night and one team scored two points in the last three minutes of that game.

You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. They gacked last night. You've got to win that game. You have to win that game. And now they're playing with fire because they very well may not win game six. But I just think that, I don't know, I don't think that Toronto team's losing three games in a row. I still like their chances.

I still think the Raptors are going to be the NBA champion. I do. Yeah, me too. You do? I think the Raptors will be But I sure is how I think it's going to be tight as hell man It's going to be a really tight series

The rest of the way With Golden State In that game I would hope Steve Carr continues Trying to run more pick and roll I think you gotta even though you don't have The floor spacing you just have to go with that They went to it at the end of the game

And they got some quality shots Out of it including a Clay Thompson three pointer An open Steph Curry 3 that rimmed out That was the DeMarcus Cousins Offensive Interference play They got some really good looks from that despite the fact you don't have Katie on the floor despite the fact you don't have optimal spacing i think if your golden state you still need to go to that and conversely with toronto like

you mentioned earlier chris it's it's funny it's like running down the clock like sort of goes to what you're talking about with playing a slower style but sometimes you're draining it too much and i think with toronto gold state has been unable to stop toronto's pick and roll all series long so i think as many times as you can put lowry and pick and roll and allow him to be a playmaker, you have to do that. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, want to remind everybody, today's episode of the mismatch is brought to by Capital One. With the Capital One's saver card, you can earn 4% cash back on dining and entertainment.

That means 4% on checking out that new French restaurant and 4% on bowling with your friends. You also earn 2% cash back at grocery stores and 1% on all other purchases. Now, when you go out, you cash in. Capital One, what's in your wallet? terms apply. Today's episode of The Mismatch is also brought to you by Turo. Turro is the largest car-sharing marketplace in the world, available across the U.S., Canada, the UK, and Germany with over 10 million users worldwide.

Turo has the widest selection of cars available so you can choose the right car for whatever occasion, often at lower cost than rental car companies. Whether it's a pickup truck for moving day or a flashy convertible for the weekend, find the perfect car for your next adventure on TURR. or if you're in the market for a new car, book the car on Turo so you can see what it's like to live with for a couple of days. Hop on the Turo app or website, find a book the car you want, then meet the host, and they'll hand over the keys.

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so long. Typically, this would be draft talk central, right, over the course of the next couple of weeks. but the NBA finals are getting all the headlines. The draft is going to take place a week from Thursday. When you have been around other people in the NBA, when you have been talking to people throughout the NBA about this upcoming NBA draft, what is the general sense you get about the thoughts regarding it?

It's really not too much different than it was before, to be honest with you, in the sense that it's viewed as a top heavy draft with Zion Williamson. People question R.J. Barrett. versus Jama Rance, people at this point are sort of looking for those diamonds in the rough in the middle of the first round and deep into the second round. It flattens out pretty quickly in this year's draft class, whereas one team's treasure might be another team's trash, depending on your perspective on certain players. This is what I'm most fascinated in is who goes for.

You've got the hunter people, you've got the Culver people, you've got the Garland people. I think that this is one of those years where you could see somebody fly up out of nowhere and end up at four. You know, years ago, during the Rose draft, I remember it was Derek Rose, Michael Beasley, O.J. Mayo, pretty much everybody thought that those would be the top three picks. And then four, when Westbrook went off the board,

everybody was like, what the hell? Russell Westbrook. and you know what, it's probably going to be one of the names we all imagine. But I will tell you, I still don't gather that there is a serious consensus on the fourth best player in this draft. And it's interesting that the Lakers happen to have that pick. It could very well be moved by the time the draft comes around or moved on draft night.

So they might not be drafting for for themselves. But if I asked you today, who goes for? We know who's going one, two, three. Zion's going to go one, Morant's going to go two, Barrett's going to go three. So now we're to four. And who goes four when it comes draft night? Depends on who's picking.

If it's the Lakers, perhaps Darius Garland, a fellow clutch client with LeBron James, and also a good on-court fit next to LeBron with the shooting ability that he can provide off the ball, with the on-ball presence that he is as a shot creator. he's not Kyrie, but he can sort of play, he fills that molds next to LeBron James with a scoring guard. However, as Woj reported today, Lakers, there's some pressure in order to make a run. Anthony Davis now, so perhaps it could end up being the New Orleans Pelicans that are making that pick.

But even then, even if it is New Orleans, if you're considering their needs, if you consider the fact that they'll be drafting Zion, if you consider that they have Drew Holiday in their backcourt, Darius Garland will also be a nice fit next to Holiday. Holiday could cover for the limitations of Garland on the defensive end of the floor, and Garland with his offense could perfectly complement Holiday on the offensive end. So maybe it could be Garland if it's New Orleans or the Lakers, either way. Do you believe strongly that there is a fourth best player? You have Culver on your big board as four as of right now.

If I just told you, throw need out the window. Kevin, you know who's going in the top three. Just take the fourth best player. Is your big board indicative of that? Are you a trust the board? I'm taking who I think is the fourth best guy. I think Jared Culver is the fourth best guy. Yes, Jared Culver is fourth person on my board and the fourth guy that I would take.

Yeah. Culver's good. He's really good player. Listen, when you suck, there ain't no such thing as drafting for need, in my opinion. That's what happened. That's how you end up with, you know, you don't take Michael Jordan because you've got Clyde Drexler, because you've already got a shooting guard.

And it's like, all right. Like, dude, just take the best guy. Just take the best guy. No matter. If you're picking that high, take the best player. What's interesting is I wonder who trades up. There's been significant noise about Atlanta being a team that could be on the move.

They have 8, 10, and 17 in the first round. They could easily move up to that five range where Cleveland at they're the team to really watch on draft night because with Atlanta there are a number of guys of that eight and ten spot that are good fits that are going to be quality players but maybe there's somebody that Travis Schlank observes as a steal at four or five or six. It makes it worth it to trade all those all three of those picks or two of them and then other assets in order to get up there. But I think that's one thing about the sure's draft. People are talking about that makes it so hard to predict the fact that there's likely going to be a ton of movement on draft night, either with

players, potential blockbusters like an Anthony Davis thing, or just trades within the draft, trade ups and trade downs that could make this really, really an interesting night that makes it hard for teams to prepare and makes it hard for people to mock the draft because there's no consensus. And there's so much potential movement, it could end up being a wild, wild night. Boy, I'm telling you, Kevin, when you said that, Woj put out that report about, you know, the Pelicans talking to people and Anthony Davis deal and multiple teams, that's exactly what crossed my mind.

Like, this is going, I bet you that Davis deal is one of those like three, four team just frigging blockbusters. This massive, massive trade with all manner of teams involved. Because he's already reported. you know, makes it sound like it ain't going to be a one for one. I trade you Anthony Davis and I get whatever your return is, that this is just going to have so much involved, possibly three, four teams even involved,

where you've got all kinds of players shifting around. And so you're right. Inevitably, there will be a lot of picks involved in that also. Chris, do you think New Orleans should move AD or should they wait until free agency begins? You've got to tell me what the return is. it sounds like everybody is loaded for bear and that you might actually be able to get incredible return. And you are now building around with Zion in mind.

Obviously, I want to keep a top five talent in the league. But if it's untenable, I want to get unbelievable return. Because look, Kev, we just witnessed how fast this can all change. And the pelicans of all teams should know that. Once upon a time, they traded for DeMarcus cousins, and then it happened to him. And I hate to bring this up, but it just happened to KD last night. You just never know what can take place. And that return may not be there.

God forbid something happened to him. And so if you've decided, hey, we've got Zion Williamson now, and we're building with him in mind, and we can get some incredible return to build a great team. yeah, I'd move him. I don't want to move him, but that, I mean, I also don't want his agent calling me every day saying, dude, move him. Like, he doesn't want to be here. I have Rich Paul pestering you every day until you move him. Well, and you know Griffin's got a great relationship with them.

So he really has him on speed dial. It's not like some dude they haven't worked with before. They called him every day, so he would build the team in Cleveland that they want it. You know what I mean? He knows what they? life's like, it sounds like they can get amazing return. I think we're going to look up and we're going to say, damn, man, you never end up on the right side of it when you're trading a generational talent, but I do believe they

could get incredible return. I just want to know which team is going to come out of nowhere and make a strong offer. When are we going to get that report, that Wojbomb, where it's like the Denver Nuggets have traction or the Denver Nuggets are exploring a trade for Anthony Davis. When are we going to get that team where things become real? Because right now it's just sort of, you know, people are like, oh, it worked out for Toronto and Kauai, maybe a one year or more of contention. Teams may look into that as a model to follow. What team is that going to be that comes out of nowhere with a strong offer?

Okay. Well, let me ask you about another one because a year ago we were talking about Boston and maybe being in that spot. And you know what? Forget about everybody. They got a lot of picks up coming in this draft. What percentage chance would you put on it that Kyrie Irving actually wears a Celtics uniform next year? Zero percent? No, not zero.

Okay. No. All right. I don't know, like 35, 40 percent. Oh, really? I would rule it out entirely. I think that would be silly to do. Boy, this Brooklyn stuff has gotten big, big legs.

I had heard that, you know, obviously they were gunning for being able to get. at Kyrie and KD together there. And obviously that's a different situation than it was 24 hours ago. That's for sure. That Katie injury throws a wrinkle into everything because KD was the guy that would be pairing with it was Katie and Kauai. It was Katie and Kyrie. It's always involving KD.

And suddenly he's going to be out for a entire year in all likelihood. How does that impact Kyrie's decision? How does that impact anybody in the market? A lot of Domino's will fall. I know this. Brooklyn is, I've talked to a lot of people about this, Brooklyn is all over the Kyrie thing, all over it. They want Kyrie badly. And I think that has been a plan for some time. And I think you saw with that trade when they, you know, they move the multiple draft picks and they're clearing out space. Like the reason that everybody's reporting that is because that is true. I know at one point they had even reached out on a small level interested in. in Mike Miller's interest, who is, he's an assistant coach

at the University of Memphis for Penny Hardaway, and he is also extremely close friends with Kyrie Irving. And make no mistake, the Nets, why would they have an interest

in Mike? That's the reason, because maybe it would help their opportunities in being able to get Kyrie Irving to come there. So they are loaded up for that. They're loaded up for that.

Yeah, and it would have been of like, you know, one of those assistant to the GM, you know, like the way you do in recruiting, right? You try to hire a guy. You try to get him on board. But I've had multiple people tell me that. And I know this. They are close, close, close. And so this Marks guy, he's a smart guy. He is a smart guy. This Sean Marks. And I don't know. I guess we will see. I don't think Miller's doing that. But I do think that they are loaded for Bayer in order to. to get Kyrie Irving in Brooklyn.

And that's kind of home for him, too, you know? So it is home. And he grew up in that span as well. Yeah, I think there's a reason that that's been reported everywhere, because there's a lot of people in the know that think that that's maybe been in the works for a little longer than just the last couple of weeks. But I at one point was told that they were going to try to get KD there too. And again, plans change dramatically.

You know what I'm saying? Plans change dramatically. know what you do now. I don't know what you do now if you are the Brooklyn Nets and regards to Kevin Durant. In regards to signing him, like let's say you're hesitant to sign Katie and you're like, okay, we don't want to spend that money. We don't want to take that risk. Then you don't, you don't wait until you're not waiting until 2020 to sign him. You're waiting until 2021 to sign him. So like this is your only chance to sign Kevin Durant. If you wait that long. Your cap space is going to change. You might not even be the general manager anymore.

He might be in a new situation that he loves. This is your only chance to get KD still, despite the injury. So you got to take it unless you have another choice, unless there's a plan B where you can give the money to somebody else that can put you into potential contention. I'm not sure that options out there. I don't think Jimmy Butler makes the Brooklyn Nets a contender, you know what I mean? So I think for these teams. You got Kyrie and Jimmy Bullitt. You got Kyrie and Jimmy Butler, you're, I mean, I don't know. Those guys, those guys would butt heads within minutes. Oh, no, they wouldn't.

No, they wouldn't. And I'm going to tell you this. So you remember how I just mentioned the Miller thing? All those guys own a huge underwear brand together. Go look it up. PSD. No, it's Kyrie Irving, Mike Miller, Jimmy Butler, I think Marshaun Lynch was involved for a moment.

Chandler Parsons. there's a bunch of them. They're all in business together. Can you say again, what do they own? PSD underwear. It's a huge brand amongst athletes. Go look it up. It's a huge brand amongst athletes.

Yeah, yeah. That's exactly why they're going to get along. They own an underwear together. No, I'm saying it's not like these guys are foreign to each other. How many people are you in business with? Yeah, they wear the same. underwear. No, no, no, no.

They own the business together, Kevin. They don't wear the same underwear. Of course, they do wear the same underwear. But I'm telling you, they are partial owners of a business together. It's not like these guys are, you know, foreign exchange students meeting for the first time. And they're not going to get along. How many guys are you in business with that you don't get along with? I suppose it's possible, but that whole idea that, oh, those guys wouldn't get along.

Well, they probably shouldn't have a large amount of money. in the same pool together if they don't get along so well. Watch out for that. It might be Team PSD. Put them all together. Oh, my goodness. I hope it happens just so I can hear your celebration about this. So you can play this back on a show.

Hey, last thing. The only team in the NBA without a head coach hired a head coach. Hey! The Memphis Grizzlies hired Taylor Jenkins, and assistant for the Millie Wauke Algonquin for the Goodland Bucks. He is the Budenholzer tree. So the other two that people bring up are Kenny Atkinson and Quinn Snyder as guys that certainly have had a level of success. And they're certainly good names if you say, hey, maybe you got the next one of these guys.

People have high opinions of those. I didn't know him before today. And of course you look him up. How about this? This cannot be common for a head coach. Number one, he's the second youngest head coach already in the NBA to only Ryan Saunders who got the T-Woles job. He went to the Wharton School of Business at Penn. It's an Ivy League guy.

Then interned for R.C. Buford. Then coached for Quinn Snyder for the Austin Toros. And then coached for a guy named Brad Jones, who was on Jerry Sloan's staff long ago and is actually now the head coach of the Memphis Hustle. Great, great guy. but he coached for Brad Jones, so I'm sure that Brad had an influence, or at least put in the good word for him. And then coach the Toros himself. And then obviously he has been on Boonehawzer staff in Atlanta and Milwaukee. Do you know anything about Taylor Jenkins?

I honestly do not. Nope, nothing, except for the fact that he looks like Tyler Parker from the ringer, or Tyler Parker looks like him, whatever way you want to look at it. Okay. I was hoping you would not give me a fun fact because I am going to give you an unbelievable ringer fun fact that does not include the actor from the ringer and desktop. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. The news breaks that Taylor Jenkins is going to be the head coach of the Memphis Grizzlies.

And the first text I get is from Jonathan Charks. Wow. You ready for this? I think I already know. He put it in our Slack channel. He posted a message about what I think you're going to say, but say it for the listeners, too. He was two years ahead of Charks at the same high school in Texas. They went to the same school, and this guy was two years ahead of Charks.

He was like, you guys just hired a guy from my high school. I was like, wait, what? And they were not on varsity at the same time. at the school. And I was like, well, is he a cool guy? And he said, everybody liked him. Everybody likes the guy. And obviously, you know, super bright guy who went off to the Wharton Business School

and was a graduate there at Penn. But yeah, he went to Charks High School. How about that? Pretty unbelievable. So it's got to be a winner. Charks dunking on him, I'm sure. Charks was tall. Oh, we've had this discussion.

I've had this discussion many times with Charks. One of the most stunning people when I first met him, in person. He stood up and I was like, damn, man, why are you so tall? I had no idea. You know, you don't, you don't know people on the internet and what they are in person, but he was shockingly tall to me. I thought he was a giant. But yeah, sharks went to high school with this guy. Anyway, he'll be introduced tomorrow. My buddy Kevin Arniewicz from ESPN says it's a great hire. And Kevin is a super smart guy, so here's hoping he's right. that's what I'm hoping.

You gave him a glowing endorsement. All right, Kevin, we got a game six coming up in San Francisco or Oakland, wherever it is. But before we get to that, what do you got going? Are you going out on the town or what? I mean, I do need to get dinner. I'm hungry. But before I do that, I actually have to go on a quite an unexpected journey, Chris, an unexpected journey tonight in San Francisco.

After getting off the plane, I was alerted that my suitcase was swapped with a member of the Toronto Rafters. So I need to bring Fred Van Bleet's suitcase to the Raptors Hotel. And exchange it for mine. Is this true? Yeah, it's true. I'm looking at the bag right now. Are we going to go through the suitcase live on air?

No. I'm not even touching it. I've only touched the handle. What did Fred Van Blit see when he opened up your suitcase and was like, what the hell? He saw the blue suit jacket that I was wearing last night. He saw a plastic bag full of dirty clothes. Yeah, that's what he saw when he opened up the bag.

I'll tell you this. I feel like you got the way better end of the deal on this probably. He's probably got some real drip. And you know what? You guys are about the same size, right? About the same size? You could probably pull up in B. Sure.

Outfits. Sure. Yeah. Hey, what if you showed up to game six And whatever drip he was going to be wearing You know, like when they're walking through the tunnel And like people are taking pictures of him and stuff If you showed up in whatever Fred Van Fleet was supposed to be wearing tomorrow night

Well, go find Fred. Tell him you're rooting for him. Yep, I'm Not a lot looking forward to this. I just want to eat. That's what I want to do. But you know what? It's pretty funny.

It's going to be funny when my suitcases, like, have been clearly been torn through. Hold on a second. Here we go. We've got Kevin O. Van Vleet. I'm not going to forget this one. Kevin O. Van Vleet. Well, go give Fred his suitcase back. Get your own suitcase and then get you some dinner.

I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, brother. Absolutely. Have a good night, Chris. See you. That's going to do it for another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on. iTunes, five stars, five stars, and we will talk to you next week.