The Ringer NBA Show - The Rockets Blast Golden State and We Have Ourselves a Series, Plus Celtics-Cavs and the NBA Draft | Group Chat (Ep. 270)

Episode Date: May 17, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan is joined by Justin Verrier, Jason Concepcion, Jonathan Tjarks, and Paolo Uggetti to recap Game 2 of the Western Conference finals (1:30). Then, the guys make some predictions for the next Celtics-Cavaliers matchup and break down the results of the NBA draft lottery (20:37). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer MBA show Group Chat is brought to you by Ladder. Need Life Insurance? Check out Ladder Life, the smart and easy way to secure life insurance online. With traditional insurers, you can spend weeks on paperwork, broker meetings, and lab scheduling. With Ladder, you can get a quote, apply and receive an instant decision in 10 minutes or less. Coverage can begin immediately for those who qualify. Get a free quote and learn more at ladderlife.com slash MBA. Hey guys, welcome to the Ringer NBA show group chat. We recorded this on a Wednesday night.

You're probably listening to this on Thursday morning, but we talked about Golden State and Houston's game two, which Houston won decisively. We also talked about where LeBron James might be going this summer and the NBA draft. We just had the draft lottery this week. Make sure you're checking out NBA draft. com with all the incredible mock draft and all the draft information you need.

Make sure you're listening to the Ringer NBA show all week to heat check. Chris Inverno, sources say, draft class, course group chat, and make sure you're listening to the Dave Chang Show, because that's a great podcast too. Ringer Podcast Network is your spot. All right, without further ado, let's get into the Ringer NBA show, group chat. Basketball is very good. O'KC would make the finals in the east. Ben Simmons doesn't need a jumper.

Terry Roseer is more clutch than Kyrie. Basketball is very good. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chat. I'm here with Jason Concepcio and Jonathan Charks, Justin Varyo, Paolo Getty, and a whole raft of Ringer folks tonight. The Bitcoin boys are in the building. Yeah, that's a great man. If I had to review Game 2 of Golden State versus Houston, I would do it by saying that we have been listening to Steely Dan songs for last 15 minutes. It's a 20 plus point blowout. Jason, yes. This is about as good as the Rockets can play. I think. think, does it change your mind about this series? I know, I still think the, I still think that the Warriors are going to win the series, but it's nice to know that they have this gear and then they could go to this level.

Hit a bunch of shots. It's great to see Eric Gordon be a basketball player who makes jumpers again. Yeah. What's a Billbo back in? Yeah, when did it? He's returned to the Shire? Yeah, we started calling him a Hobbit tonight. I don't know why. It's from basketball reference to call him the Hobbit there. Oh, is that one of his like,

Nicknames of Unknown Orgy? Can we source those, like, have them? Are those, like, generally-s-upil-south? I'm just making them up. The role player showed up tonight. Yes. Yeah, I mean, PJ Tucker had the game of his life, and it wasn't just him.

It was like all the guys around him. Basically, they went small. It didn't seem like Klinkeppella played a bunch. Yeah. And they were basically able to force the warriors, some of those big guys off the floor, and it took advantage. I mean, those guys were making shots.

That's really what the difference came down to. They pushed. Like, the ball is pushing in transition, easier shots for PJ, Trevor. That was huge. Getting the ball up and down a little bit. Very Warriors-esque, whereas last game is mostly just ISO wall. Iso, yeah. John, one thing that was sort of, I don't know if it's concerning,

but this was not a good Steph game. Yeah. This was a step game where the splash brothers were actually outscored by PJ Tucker. I feel like Steph has had the one good game when he first came back. I'm not sure he's had another great Steph game sense. in five games now. And that's the problem with somebody, frankly, of Steph's

physical makeup is that he's not going to dominate physically. He's got to have a little bit of his explosiveness speed-wise to get into the game. I guess he had a good game five, but he's had some pretty bad games that's coming back. Well, I mean, that's kind of the thing about the Warriors is like they can weather a bad game from

one of their guys, right? But not Clay and Steph. It can't be two of KD, Steph, or Clay. Clay has eight points. That's why they're going to win the series, though, because it's not going to happen. Here's a start I'm watching. I think you look at Duran Harden points-wise, they'll kind of even out.

So to me, it's Stefan Clay versus Gordon and Paul. And like where else are you getting the offense from from the Warriors? Like Duran showed up tonight, but I'm looking at Jaramon Green with six points, Iguodala with five. These are some of the concerns we had earlier in the season. If those guys couldn't contribute, are you putting too much pressure on those three guys? Yeah, if you're a beachfront property and the Hampton's five is maybe decaying a little bit. there. This is a problem. They got some nice minutes in the first game from characters like Nick Young, and that obviously

didn't pop off tonight. So it would be interesting, John, if you're right, if this winds up being a battle of role players in some ways, or at least secondary stars. I would say the big adjustment Dantoney made, he didn't play Neney, he didn't play Ryan Anderson, and he didn't play him a mob mooned after about two minutes. He pulled all those guys out the rotation. He basically played six and a half guys. And Steve Kurt played like David West. That was disrespectful to have him on the court. Like, we think we'll play this 85-year-old man I thought Mooney looked okay out there for a little while.

I feel like I'm on Looney Island. He's better than West, get West out of there. He plays his role. Yeah, yeah. He's basically New Zaza. He's like Young Zaza. New Zaza. He's just Jive-Wed out of catastrophe.

Young Zaza. I wish I was young Zaza. A couple other things we need to watch out for. One is that Chris Paul spent most of the fourth quarter with his ankle wrapped up and was limping towards the end of the game. I think he was wearing, I think somebody in here said he was wearing like

Adidas Samba. over the course of this game. So that may have had a contributing factor to his ankle problems. Two is that Steve Kerr mentioned, I think after either the first or at halftime, that we win a game and then we have a ton of turnovers.

And I think they had something like at least 14 tonight last time I checked. 15 turns out. They came out real flat for sure. So is that all I get off again thing a little bit of a problem for you when you're watching the Golden State in this playoff series?

I mean, that's like the good and bad of them. They play so loose, they play so free and it leads to games where they just blow people out by 20. but then you get games like this where the turnovers rack up and then on the flip side of it like the rockets came through just in terms of like the perimeter defense you look at what happened with Steph

they're very physical with them on the perimeter and it seemed like it really kind of threw them off balance we have to we have to sort of keep in mind that the Durant thing tonight was like we almost like what we saw with LeBron last night where it was like we got 38 point Durand night Durant night where he was always threatening to like go off and just go supernova.

And yet they were able to like, they were able to like push the stave that off and shield themselves from that, the rockets. 38 points on 22 shots, that's pretty good. But again, it's like they've, their trio of scores is so talented. It's, you just, you're not backing off. I'm not, I'm not backing off.

Is Clay going to go, is Clay going to score eight points again? Yeah, I would say like Durant's points, or you don't even worry about it. He's getting 40. Yeah, like he's going to get 40. It doesn't matter. One of Clay and Steph also has to come through. Right.

Just a normal game. Not even a great game. Just a normal game. Right. So that was like what Bosch said about the 2012 Thunder team. It's like Russ and Katie can get 50 and then everything else is about stopping hard. Polly, did you have a thing for us? Yeah, we got our first question.

But before we do that, I wanted to play a little game with you guys. But I know some of you are looking at the box score already, so maybe look away. Okay. Who do you think have the best plus minus on the Warriors that played at least 10 minutes? Because there were some garbage time minutes for like Jordan Bell, for example. But who would you guess had the best plus minus on the Warriors? Nick Young. No. I'm going to get some Looney.

Sean Livingston? Wow. There you go. Get on my level, folks. Is there anybody on the Warriors right now who's obviously not a Splash brother or KD who you think is starting to show themselves a little bit of a liability after tonight? That Kerr might get a little bit more. I mean, beyond West, obviously. It's just tough to hit the panic button with them at any point.

I just think like if Steph hits two or three threes, we're looking at a different game. I would say, I want to see Livingston. Let's post him up some, get him some shots. He's a one guy in supporting cast to get his own shot. You might need to get him more involved. Because the flip side of this is a lot of those Rockets, ancillary players, are playing

above their heads right now. B.J. Tucker is having the game of his life. Though it is interesting, Charx, you brought up right before the series that you thought Eric Gordon had to be a key for the Rockets for them to have any chance in this. He has to be their clay. Right. And so, like, I guess what about that is so important

to getting the Rockets going? Because he's the one guy beyond Pardon and Paul who can get his own shot. And I think the other thing, too, their supporting cast got open shot. The Warriors missed shots. Rockets pulled it the other way and got their supporting cast easy shots.

From the Warriors are making shots, defense is set. To me, the big lineup the Rockets had, it was Hardin, Paul, Gordon, Arisa, Tucker, Tucker at the 5. That was the lineup they found tonight. That's probably the line they're going to run with. Post stuck Tucker and let him get down.

He was doing Draybonds. He was eating them. No, defensively, though, the Rockets were letting KD get to his spots as long as those spots were like that mid-range turnaround game that he's obviously incredible. at, but I felt like there was

almost like that, okay, like if this is the worst that's going to happen, and even if it gets Kevin in rhythm, let him stay in rhythm with Chris Paul guarding him 15 feet from the basket with his back turn, and let's just let him eat off. So here's a question from Twitter from Kirk Sears' face.

I know that guy. What up Kurt? Was it a worst Steph game or a worst Draymond game? Drayman was laid on every rotation and had some sloppy turnovers. Steph appeared to be very weak in at Bernice. I mean, Dreamon has these games all the time. He just provides the defense to like kind of balance all that. And also like you look at his box score, he has a six assists. He has a way to move the ball

and find these guys that's just essential to what they do. Yeah. And I think in an away gym in a situation like this, those three-pointers clang off a little harder. They feel a little bit more wasteful. When Drammon shoots, you never think it's going to go. What were you calling? Someone was telling me, was that you, Paul, like the turtle? I said that when he shoots his three, it looks like a turtle coming out of his show. I'm waiting for Houston to Rondo. Dremonde. To just leave them alone completely. It hasn't really happened, but that's a,

that's a gear they can go to if they need to do that. I'm trying to read the room and figure out whether this is a product of all of us watching a lot of us watching a lot of playoff basketball and a draft lottery show, and we're a little like, should we be more excited about this rocket's performance? I can't tell.

You want to do some jumping jacks? No, it's just that like, I'm trying to, like, you know, everybody's throw, like throws their stuff in the air when the Warriors turn it on. Like this is just like, they got beat. They just got beat.

I just kind of feel like we all kind of agree that Houston's going to have that one game where they just go crazy from three. Like PJ Tucker is not going to shoot 83%. I will say, what is his quarterly percentage? It must be so high. He's went five of six tonight. Shocker, can you check that? He never misses, it seems like if he's open. It's just tough to get, like, to hit the panic meter, as we were saying.

It's just, I said after that last game, that first game where they blew the doors off of the rockets, like the only person that's ever beat the Warriors is Draymond. Yeah. It's just like if he goes off the handle, that's the one thing you're wrong. worry about, but like what they have works, they just weren't hitting some of the shots that they usually do. The PJ Tucker shot chart is like the perfect Mori Ball shot chart. He literally has three shots made at the rim and then five of six all corner three. Shout out, hook him. PJ Tucker, Texas great. Did he go to Texas? Oh yeah. Was he there with Kevin? LaMarcus, Daniel Boobie Gibson.

I always assumed that everybody who ever went to Texas was also at school with T.J. Ford. Oh, man, T.J. Right, he's worth of Wardwater. Yeah, I think part of the reason why, I hear what you're saying where it's like, well, we don't want to hit the panic button. I guess what I'm saying is, are we not hitting the excitement button

about the Rockets, hard enough? But maybe the proposition of the Rockets is that if they have any prayer against a team like the Warriors, or the Warriors, specifically, it's got to be with a performance like this. Like, all of their chips are put on, like, this one number to hit, basically. Right, and I think it was encouraging

that Chris Ball had a pretty dramatic effect on the game, especially in the early going before he got hurt. It seemed like he wasn't shooting particularly well. He finished one for five from three, but he did have a way of moving things around, and he was playing that warrior basketball game, Chris loved so much.

I was waiting for him to get it, to get teed up and maybe tossed out of this game. He was complaining about it. Him and Draymond, who cracks first? Well, that's the thing is that, like, now they're going to go back to Golden State, and I think Chris is going to be in a little bit more of a hostile environment.

And look, like, he did some home court shit here where he was, like, doing some, like incredible fast break ball handling stuff. That was the kind of stuff you do when you feel very comfortable in your environment, but he was still on edge. I thought that was really interesting to see he plays on that line. He's always on edge ever, always.

And you have to give him a lot of credit for some of the misfires that Steph had. He was all up in him several times, and we were saying before, we forget that Chris Paul was one of the best players in the NBA when he was healthy this season. He was amazing. Yeah. I mean, when healthy, I think that's a great point and that's why

I cannot get too excited. about this because it's like we need to find out what's like I will say one thing I'm excited about it's like the Rockets have six players you can play in the series they figured it out they have their six will not be enough in a series against the Warriors 10 those six guys keep the tail close I don't think they can go seven eight nine those guys can't play against Golden State right yeah so it's just like six and a half and it's like Ruk and Bahute was the guy I think they probably thought they could get minutes from but the shoulder injury takes them out of it pala do you have like something for us about the series yeah so there's a question from Chauncey on Twitter you said it's is Curry's health going to be the biggest X-factor for the rest of the series. It's so hard to see with him. Well, it's so, it's so strange because it's like, does that change the chemistry or the dynamic of the team to have 70% Steph paired with Kevin Durant? Like, is, like, the way that that often supposed to work, because he was missing those

threes tonight. Yeah. Just like, if this goes down, they could roll off 12-in-row-to-all-in-well. I mean, you expect Steph to get, like, 30 points, and he's getting, like, 15. That's huge. I mean, obviously. Yeah. Yeah.

And not as super-efficient 15. And like if he's down, like who you're turning to? Is Quinn Cook? Like, yeah, he saved them during the regular season. But I don't want him playing any, like, crucial playoff minutes. This is a Clay Thompson series. This is like Clay Cass to get 25 probably. All right.

Let's talk about Clay Thompson. That's my guy. That's what is Charks's his guy? Yeah, we're going to talk about that. No, okay. Okay, no, this is great. Charks, you were asking at halftime, I think after Clay hit like two threes in a row,

you were just like, what was your actual? My take was, how many guards over Clay Thompson in a playoff series would you take on your squad? To what a playoff series. Just guards. So anybody in the NBA? One or two guard. Or I guess not even, one or two, or two guards.

How many guards? The crazy thing is it's not as long of a list as I thought it would be. Unless you're asking me. Yeah. Unless you're asking Craig Hardin. That's my list. CP3? No.

No. I'm thinking Clay every time. I made the case for Eladipo, the way Old Depot has been playing over the past. And see, when I said last year, you put Clay in Oklahoma City, he gets his points. Ola Depot with Wright, Clay gets his points anywhere. He guards everywhere. How long have you been staying at the Claytheism Center? I'm in.

I'm in, man. Did they tell you to come on in for free? I think that Clay has the luxury of having nights like this. That's what I'll say. And the guys who I'm putting in front of Clay do not have that luxury. This is the series for Clay to show who he is. Yeah. Do you guys want to hear a great Mike Dantone quote?

Absolutely. So he said, they walked it up tonight, did a lot of ISOs. I will say Mike's like what 65? What shade punchy Mike D'Ancheonnie I like it's interesting You won one game bro

Let me just say this Let me just say this When Mike Dantone When Mike Dantone was cooking the league With the Phoenix Suns It was ah you can't win this way Four out

AK a big time Greg Popovich was taking that dude sole All I'm saying is every time Mike is here with a good team in the playoffs, people are like, well, can you win this way? And now, like, he basically created the modern NBA. He's playing a style that fits his team, whatever you want to say about it, it fits his team. And now people are like, ISOs, is it going to work?

And blah, blah, blah. It's like, man, I created this. What are you talking about you? I mean this world that you're living in. Yeah, I will say, like, he's changed his style up. He ran to Tim Duncan last decade. He's running a Kevin Durant this decade. Like, what are you really going to do?

Yeah, it's like, what are you going to do? Like, you take the L with dignity and not come out here and start being like. I will agree. He's a little old-time shade. Like, he should be more mature. Yeah. This is a good, this is a good transition to the question people have been asking, which is, are you still sick of the rocket style of life?

Me personally. Yes, Chris Ryan. Okay, when you go to Vegas and you go to, well, actually, this is a bad example. Run that back. This is too bad. It's live. I don't like watching people play roulette. And that's what they're doing. So if they hit, congratulations, they're rich guys.

They get to go out of steak dinner. If they had lost, they would have been crying in their beards. and just being like, oh, these are some strong takes. I like it. He looked at me when he said that. Because you're not even fighting about this. We're not even fighting.

You just look at me sadly every time I go on this rant. I'm all for pace and space, Mori ball. It's fine. But sometimes it's not the most attractive thing to watch. It's definitely, it's an acquired taste. It's like watching someone count cards.

Yes. But the NBA version. You know what I mean? But I think it's like, it's pretty educational to see that they can go back into the ball movement style, or at least favor that a little bit more than they had been in the past, like pretty much on a dime.

And they did that this game, and you saw what had opened up for the rest of the team. See, I always appreciate different styles. In fact, the NBA is so homogenized. I always appreciate a team doing something a little differently. That's nice. I don't mind. Yeah, I just, I mean, I don't necessarily, I mean, like, I don't really,

I like to have that variety. I think that it, like, watching guys, when it's just a matter of, like, which six-eight guy is going to, like, guard which six-eight guy. I don't know who I could possibly be talking about. right now, it just gets a little bit boring. I just don't know what's different between Hardin doing that and Russ doing that. I guess Russ plays with more violence and so it's like more dynamic in that sense, but like they're essentially working from the same playbook.

Well, I was going to make a Russ doesn't hunt for calls the way Hardin does, but then I know you guys would just come back and stop padding. He's more theatrical for sure. Like he's meatloaf. No, I'm saying Russ is. Russ is meatloaf on the court. Yes. No, he's not a meatloaf.

Meatloaf. No, he's this shit, like, as in like a rock opera? Paul, did you have any specific other Warriors' rocket stuff? Is this the first meatloaf reference? Will we open? What a time? What a story for a chat? I won't do that or something?

I do a lot of people. I will do anything for love. But I won't do that. All right, so there's an interesting stat out there. I think Chris Haynes tweeted it out, which is that Houston targeted Steph Curry on 23 plays tonight, which is the most in the game this postseason. You know how I knew that? I test.

I test. Just crunch and take. It never failed. I could tell you could see that they were going after after a while. Matchups are key, man. Like, I thought that that was, like, pretty risky when Dan Tony was guarding Kevin Durant with Chris Paul. In the beginning of the game, you got two quick fouls that looked like it might throw them off, like, big time. And then obviously they were able to recover from that.

I think what I would do if I was going to stay, I put staff, I mean, have them on a Risa and then just double it. Make a Risa and make four on three plays consistently. I'm not sure that he can do that. I mean, the Riza point is also a big thing. I mean, we may have mentioned this earlier, but, like, the fact that he wasn't in five. trouble in this game really unlocked things and shows like, yeah, maybe he's an ancillary guy in offense, but he really keys that defense in kind of subtle ways. Plus 26 tonight.

Areza? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like those numbers. Rockets, like secondary rockets guys, rocket boosters. We'll be back after a quick word from our sponsors with more Ringer NBA show group chat. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show Group Chat is brought to you by ADT. Is your home an ADT home?

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at ADT.com. And now back to group chat. Let's talk a little bit about some more general NBA topics. We had some news today. Obviously, Coach Bud had breakfast with Janus. Smoothies. And then took the job later in the day.

He had been rumored to be linked with the Raptor's job. The Raptor's coaching management style has been called with the question today as they congratulated their ex-coach, Duane Casey, a winning coach of the year. Congrats. You're fine. Yeah, bringing on like 3,000 gift responses. But yeah, that was really funny. They were like a couple days ago.

It's like, buttonholes has been chased by Toronto, Milwaukee. I wonder where he's going to pick, like what team he wants to coach going forward. Let me just say this about the Raptors. I think, to be fair, it's a tough spot when they announce that your former coach, just won coach of the year, like how do you respond? Right. How do you even respond? I guess you do nothing, but then I can understand from a certain standpoint, like the,

well, it would be classy, right? To be like, hey, congratulations, Dwayne Casey, but it's, unfortunately they did fly to the guy. Sometimes you can just say nothing. Yeah, I don't know if Dwayne Casey is, like, refreshing their Twitter for you. making sure that he got his proper due from his former colleagues. He's like, what are my mentions like? By that same token, do you think that letting go of Dwayne Casey, when everybody pretty much guessed that he was going to win Coach of the Year,

maybe gave Mike Budenholzer pause about going, not that there was an offer on the table, but if he had his choice between the two jobs, one place has Giannis, the other place just fired the coach of the year and has Kyle Lauer and DeMardoza. I don't think he even to go that far. Is this even a choice? What are you going to do?

Well, come on. I mean, the marketing for error is what are you're looting for? to is like way slimmer if you're in Toronto. They're built to win the finals right now. And you've seen that the only thing that's gonna get your coach fired is he can't get to that point. And whereas with the box, you just come off a playoff series where it looks better

in retrospect because the Celtics have been so good. That was just gonna say. As a Sixers fan, I've been telling myself the same thing. Milwaukee gave Boston trouble in a way no one else has been able to. That says something I think. Because physically they match up well with them with the long guys, right?

Yonis Middleton was a killer in that series? Yeah, they do have Yonis. But in the regular season, I mean, they had pretty significant flaws, and I don't think they were utilizing the talent they had around them. I think there's a case to be made that they made some pretty poor moves

and filling out the roster around them, but I still think there are pieces. They're Middleton, I still like Bledsoe. I think you could utilize those guys to make a top three team in the east pretty quickly. The big adjustment they made in that playoff series was getting Thon back in there. 100%.

Thon was out the whole record. The Al Thon was in there, then it was different. I mean, that was the lineup that shut down the Raptors for a one half of a playoff game, the previous playoffs. And, like, shouts to Joey Prunes for recalling that that happened.

I hope you were any I won the coach in the year. Next year, he dedicates to Joey Prunes. And I think, you know, Brunelzer is the guy who won 60 games with a Hawks team that had, like, no transcended superstar, so I get it.

Like, you... Except for Al-Hover. Jason. One thing that we're not talking about enough. It always comes to... Back to Al Horford. The impact Alhaworth. It's like when Michelangelo was at his peak.

That's what the screens are like. The only thing we're not talking less about is the job Brad Stevens is doing. And what a job it is? He never talks about it. So the point where their narrative is now that he doesn't talk about it, like he never talks about it. And so he's just like almost wrong for doing that as well. What if Brad Stevens is like Leak Central?

He's like the Kelly Ann Conway of Brad Stevens. and he's constantly like briefing writers being like please, please write like a really nice fawning piece. I'll give you all the dirt on the Morris Brothers. You know that's what's happening. Stevens is dirty. Are you okay? He's the president. He is the political mastermind.

I don't think Stevens is like doing what Dan Turing did tonight. Stevens is not worrying about the media. He's just giving you straight professionalism all the way down. The Budholtzer thing comes down to essentially I think, because you mentioned the Hawks, the best case scenario for the Raptors, which we pretty much just saw Dwayne Casey got that, is that

Hawk season. It's like a really, really good regular season that gets all dependent on who you face in the playoffs. I think that's the thing with this Raptor's season, best season in franchise history, but their playoff defeat really revealed structural issues.

There's structural issues there. I think it's just a ceiling for a team when Lauerine de Rose are your best players. Yeah, the ceiling is the roof, and the roof is very low. The real thing is we're moving towards an OG and an Obie Raptor's team. We don't know what the ceiling is. And if you're bud, having come from that hawk situation, you're definitely going away from the Raptors for that very reason.

You want to have the potential to be more. You're going to want the potential to actually take it to LeBraw and have a chance. Yeah, I mean, it's obvious. Yonis, go coach John. Dude, I'm thrilled because a lot of the times these incredible young players, it's pretty rare for them to get a great coach like that. Because usually those young players are drafted onto bad teams. It's pretty rare that they have a good coach in place.

And you want the Jordan to have the fill. You want... And you got like Scott Brooks and KD. Yannis Instagram storied that he got a BJ Bell for Valentine's Day. And that's the kind of thing that you didn't have with the Hawks. A little spice. Excitement. He didn't have a spice segments, Sam.

I'm telling you. Yeah, here you go. Here's our replica. Probably got anything on social for us. Well, I mean, the question that was out there was just like, can Coach Bud take him to the next level? And I think that's just what you guys have been talking about. I think somebody wrote a blog post about that today. Yeah, I did.

So, like, the thing I thought was interesting is that, like, with the Raptors, I kind of look at it if he had gone there, like you said, there's already a known ceiling. Yeah. The best case scenario is like the repeat of the 2015 Hawks, which wins 60 games and then you lose the LeBron in the playoffs. I think it's unfastened to see how he deals with the honest. because this is like we said the best player he's ever had. I think the big question is what happens to Jabari Parker. What happens to Thon McCur? Shout out to Isaac Lee.

What happens to Eric Bledsoe? Another point in Apollo's fantastic blog post is just that they really need Bud to unlock the rest of that roster, regardless of what happens to Jabari because they don't have many options. They're locked up with a lot of that stuff. I think they're over the cap already, even if before they make a decision on Jabrari. See, Bledso, there's Bledsoe under control? One year. One year less.

So, all right, one of the reasons why everybody in the evening, is in panic mode right now is the specter of LeBron. So he obviously just wiped out the Raptors like a rock hitting the earth. But watching him against the Celtics, we have to wonder whether or not LeBron's bags are prematurely packed right now, or like they're already packed. They certainly... They look packed.

They've been packed. They had the air of... The house has got a TV and a chair. Yeah, it had the air of LeBron going to design within reach to furnish the Brentwood house. One of two. Yeah. We'll be talking nonstop about this between now and the summer. I can't wait.

But what did you think of last night's game? Do you think it was LeBron guy in the head? They can come back and win two in Cleveland. It's a series like we're seeing here, or what? I mean, listen, I would not be surprised to see them win in Cleveland. Boston's a little bit punching on the road. It just kind of feels like, you know, we've talked about it so much that there's just not a lot beyond LeBron, Kevin. Evan Love had a great series against the Raptors,

but it's like, you're waiting for another guy to do something. I'm going to say, like, they need George Hill. Like, that's the guy. And he's washed. That's the guy they got to have. And just the fact that, like, you know, Jeff Green is getting major minutes on this scene. Rodney Hood is.

They need Rodney Hood refused to go into a game. Right. And he's playing. And they're like, we've got a half of me. We got to be on the court. Guys, we got out of Rodney Hood refused to go in the game on the court because what else would we have. We talked about roulette earlier. I mean, that's essentially what Tyler has been doing this entire.

series and like virtually no one can be counted on outside of LeBron and love only up until that second round could now be counted down but even he has had some of his difficulties especially with that hand injury and they have to play Horover it seems like and he can't guard anybody it's tough and J.R. Smith

delivered the Andrew Bynum foul to there was a couple of things like that where I was just like okay if we're counting on LeBron Hill pick and rolls as the offense that's bad if J.R. is starting to throw dudes, throw forearms on dudes. That means he's like a little bit checked out.

That's bad. Rodney Hood, incapable of contributing anything on the court. Bad. It's bad, bad, bad. The worst part about this whole thing is like they don't even seem like they're happy to be there. They're playing out the string.

So Windhorst wrote this whole piece today, right? That was really good. It was about LeBron fatigue. It was just about how institutionally you play these 100 game seasons. There's never a certainty that LeBron is going to be there beyond two years. Everything is basically an extended tryout for his services slash you're making all these moves that are not for long-term sustainability. There to surround LeBron with the guys he wants to be surrounded by, although he never fully takes ownership of those moves, right? And that even in Cleveland, even with the sustained success that they've had, there is organizational fatigue at having LeBron around.

I'm just more saying this is like, this is definitely in the air now. Yeah, I mean, he's definitely culpable for some of the issues that they have. He's not only the face of the franchise anymore. He's kind of just a franchise. And he can move that wherever he sees fit. And we'll see the summer if he does that in L.A. or whatever. But he forces a team to play for the now. And we're seeing the future kind of catch up to them.

Their mortgaging of the future now, they have to pay the price for it. Yeah, I mean, the Kyrieh trade looks like an absolute catastrophe. Then again, maybe he's heard he stays in Cleveland. Then what's different? If only Gilbert knew what to do with mortgages. I'm here for the band Gilbert's share. One of the problems is that they got the eight-pick last night, is that right? So they were hoping that that was going to be the one.

Obviously, Cleveland's had the one a couple of times. Got them Kyrie, got them Anthony Bennett, got them Andrew Wiggins, a variety of different results there. But the number one pick and Kevin Love, you get into the mix for some really good returns there. number eight an agent Kevin Love and not a lot else to offer up if you want to try and keep LeBron or

rebuild after his departure I think you start from scratch the number one pick is their first pick of a rebuild is what happens I mean it seems like they can get a pretty good player at eight we were talking earlier it seems like in that range the draft is deep enough to where you can find a guy who would help you later on

but LeBron as we just mentioned isn't going to want to wait like that pick is if he is staying there is going somewhere else Yeah, the huge, huge question that we're all faced with, or what really LeBron is faced with, is he going to go to another big three type hyper-competitive situation where you can immediately challenge for the title, or does he want to go somewhere like Los Angeles,

where it's more of an... But see, that can be a big three real fast. Okay, so lay that out for me. So you trade Ingram for Kauai Leonard, sign LeBron, sign Paul George. Damn, you had that in the back pocket. We've been talking about us all week. He's making goals. On Kauai, Paul George, Josh Hart,

Lanzel, you're five. Oh man, Josh Hart. Josh Hart's good, man. Rings. You signed Earl and Noel. Signed her in a month. Clutch sports. Clutch sports.

Okay, wait a second. Trade Brandon Ingram for Kauai Leonard, straight up? Ben, yeah, I think get the cap filler and stuff, like Llewold Dang or something. And then how do you get Paul George? Just sign it. Sign LeBron and Paul George. David West will obviously want to come play with him at that point.

I know, seriously. They'll get Carl Malone back for that one. I love it. Okay, so we were talking a little. bit about draft stuff. Do you have any LeBron stuff before? Yeah, there was one, which I thought was interesting, from Adrian Perry, he said, could LeBron join him with the Bucks?

And what do he fit there? That's the thing is, like, I don't see LeBron, no disrespect. I'm just using this as a descriptor, going to another small market Rust Belt City. Yeah, I don't see that either. Like, I could see him going to Philly because he thinks it's straight back to the finals. I could see him going to L.A. because it's L.A. And I could see him.

L.A. though. Get the kid out of. Come on, man. It's not going to be the clippers. See, to me, LeBron's not thinking I want to be in a young team at 10. He needs a team next year. He's thinking immediate. Even Philly, I think, is too long for LeBron to wait.

That's what was in Win Horses' Peace today. It was just like, if you're Philly, not that do you want LeBron out, but that's the cost that comes with it. It's like Houston and the Lakers. I think so, yeah. That's it. Well, how much longer does LeBron have at his peak anyway? Okay.

That's what we were saying at the beginning of this year. I mean, you put it at probably two to three years. right? Right, but I mean he was 33. He played 82 games this year and I think there's like the impulse to say well he could do this for another two to three years but what if these things start to catch up from? What if pushing it so hard this season starts to

affect his next season or the season after that? I was telling you this morning like it reminds me a bit of like 33 year old Shaq where he'll still get 40 and 20 but he's tired Yeah, he's not not playing with as much thorosity. And like LeBron said a few games in these playoffs where he's like this game isn't happening and he just kind of shuts it off. That's why KOC would not take LeBron on the South

Oh, yeah, that was a strong takeer right there. Shast the KOC wherever you are. Chicago. Do we actually, do you guys want to talk about the Celtics for like 30 seconds? Who uttered the immortal words last night? Do the Celtics even want LeBron? Was that on air? No, it was not on air.

It was not on air. We absolutely not. We pitched LeBron for Kyrie the other way. He wasn't having it. All right, really quickly, I don't want to, we've done a lot of Celtics content this week. How we, there's never enough enough? Have we done enough Celtics? No, absolutely not.

Do you guys. I mean, we grew up the Sixters. You are. You were not out here when like Bill was walking around, just like walking up to us talking about average Al. Do the Cavs have a chance to the Celt is this a new Celtics dynasty? What are we talking about here? How how impressed are you with Boston?

And how much do you think that like we should all be prepared for this to be the next 10 years of our life? I think we should be pretty prepared. I mean, it seems like the Sixers, regardless of what they do this summer, they're going to do something significant. They're going to be right there with them. But I'm just so impressed by what they've been able to do on the defense event. It seems like, I don't know if there's a new trend there or what, but they've been able to exert dominance over a game

in the way that the Warriors have on offense. And the same way, they've been able to switch and move and call out their own plays. They freelance a little bit. It's one of the more significant trends that I've seen over the past two years since the Warriors came to there. The elegance and athleticism is... Here's what I'm thinking, like, Boston,

what they're doing now is we have all these picks. We're going to Godfather Anthony Davis. That's the plan, I think. Give the Hornets a godfather offer. Like, you have to take the strength. Pelicans. Pelicans. Yeah, whatever.

It's like, you get Davis to Boston, now you're talking a dynasty. Now you're talking, this is the new word. I don't think they need Anthony Davis. I mean, I think that, yes, that would assure them a dynasty, but I think what they have right now is going to go to the Eastern Cup, go to the finals, and then they're going to add two all-stars to the mix who fit in pretty seamlessly. If they get Anthony Davis, I go to Bleacher Report. I can't listen to this.

anymore. If they're going to We have to go to Barstool and just commit to the court. Bright Barth

Sports is happening. We'll get moving on that. The only I do want a concern troll about

though is like we're talking about oh they're going to get Kyrie and Gordon next year they're

going to be so good Tatam and Hayward they're going to have this pick that King's

pick next year. Yeah. What if the most important part of the Boston Celtics is a restricted

free agent? Or is an unrest a unrestricted. Restricted. He's restricted. He's restricted. kind of like, can you put a price tag on effort?

Yeah, so you'll pay him a lot of money next. What is Aaron's main? Because that's what the price is. Yeah, and they afford to pay smart. And the only thing that they have a problem with now is allocating enough money to pay all the guys that they like. That's why almost in some ways you are right. Maybe it is right for them to put all of these assets together

and go after. It's not about money so much as like next year, you tell Tatum, hey, you were great, third option. You tell Jaylon Brown, you're fourth. Will those young guys buck at all under that? I don't know. I guess that is a good point. That's probably more of the concern.

It's like, will they buy back into a roll of a smaller? Yeah, and then it's also the, and this has been brought up a couple of times this week because we just speculating, but the Kyrie massive contract on bad knees. Yeah. And what, two years, right? So that's a question. Now, we were talking a little bit earlier about that Cavs pick that's coming in at eight, right? And last night we did the NBA draft lottery, and I encourage everybody to go to

NBA draft. Tollery.com to see an incredible treasure trove of work done by charts. and KOC and Danny Chow. A ton of content, mock drafts, team fits, all that stuff. We've got hashtags in there, it's great. What's the, aside from Luca versus DeAndre, which is the one-two battle that we'll have for a couple of weeks,

what's the most interesting draft debate you guys have come across so far? I mean, it's just all these bigs. There's like six bigs in the top ten of most boards. Are they that valuable? Who's the better one? Who's the biggest risk? That's going to be the big storyline in this draft, I think, beyond the Luca stuff.

anything for you that's been bubbling up so far it's just kind of the same thing like what does it mean to be a big in the modern NBA like a guy's that size like what is the role do they have to shoot three does bomb have to get a three

like what is the role of defense if DeAndre Aten never turns into a defensive guy how valuable is he like I'm really fascinated by that because so much of the league now is like small ball you know like variations on small ball. So what is it? And you've seen Biggs outside of the Anthony Davis level guys

be relegated to like role players and situational guys, look at the hell tonight. Like, so what does that mean? What does that mean for Obama? What does that mean for Aiden? Right. They have to be, it's interesting to watch these big guys who were being asked to expand the horizons of their game so much. But it's then it's like the guards. They're like, eh, he'll figure out his jumper. Right. Right. Like, it's like we were talking about Shay today. Yeah. Not Chase O'Rey. But we were talking about Shy Alexander. And it was like, yeah, he'll figure out the jumper sooner or later. Let me assure you, that is a nervous proposition for somebody to watch a guard figure out their jumper live on camera.

Anybody that you're, like, any debate or tension that you're interested in that you've just been following for the last like 24 hours? I just want to know which bridges will rule the world. There are just too many bridge eye in this draft and only one of them will survive. Yeah, battle two bridges is. Team Miles, hashtag that. I like Mikhail. Powell? I just, I'm kind of out on Biggs as like a, a draft like a, I know, I just,

that's talking, talking about Lauer. I'm just kind of like, the wings are clearly so much, like, okay, so take Embed for example, right, we know he's going to, he has like that transcendent talent, but he's so unique that I feel like it'd be, it's so hard to find another guy like that, that your better odds are just trying to find a three and D wing or something like that. I think it's just more impactful over the long run. I would say there's no Joel Embed in this draft. I don't think.

Right. So, it's not a game-changing. So, like, Aden blocked, like, one-fifth of the blocks. The defense is really an issue. It's just a whole different thing. The fact that he's not been a, he's been a minus defender, like, since high school. At his size and athleticism, like, you have to, it's a concern.

Enjoy him, Sacramento. Any other draft stuff that's been popping? Like, how are you feeling about Trey Young, who is, who is, through the New York Daily News, who has expressed his interest in being at the Garden? Listen, if it, it, the history of guys who have wanted to come. to the garden. Malik Mood. Shouts to my guy

Malik Munk, shouts to Amari Stademeyer, the Knicks are back. It's not, it's a checkered history to say the least. Trey, I just hope it happens.

I hope he's the guy that he was in the early part of the season if he does end up at the garden, we could use a score. Otherwise, it's like, you know,

him and Timothy Hardaway, Jr. are like, are the Spider-Man meme. You know what I mean? So we'll see. Well, Christopson on the sideline.

Yeah, we will see. anybody else like is there a Connecticut guy in the draft this year I don't know nothing to you quite a while tall and droughts up with here well we got some more than Tony stuff oh is he still serving he's he had quite the presser there was like a few quotes in there he said we can beat anybody anywhere anytime playing the way we play some people might not like it quick news flash jam he can only play one of like

it's just like you just you unbuttoning your shirt like you just say you want to get two at home and died one-one like I don't know you need to be so forward to you know he was just basically just basically doubling down on like we people wanted us to change and we didn't change how was Kerr's press conference is he he was making jokes as he does somebody asked him like how much he thought that Steph's health had a factor in it he said 13.6% so you know did he did you know popovitchie in there move all more yeah yeah that's a significant

change they were doing I was just the fact that Tony, before the game was like, we're not changing a thing. Right. And then they obviously change. Yeah. And now back in the presser, we're not changing, we're never changing. I love it. He's got us talking points.

He doesn't care what actually happens. The talking points remain the same. I like it too. All right. We'll wrap up there for Jason, John, Justin, Powell, everybody else. This has been group chat. We will be back next week. Thank you for being with us. Basketball is very good.

Fall is very good.