The Ringer NBA Show - The Rolling Raptors and All-Star Reserves, Plus: A Special Interview With Nikola Jokic | The Corner 3 (Ep. 375)

Episode Date: January 25, 2019

The hype around the Toronto Raptors has died down despite their continued excellence (0:40). With the All-Star starters announced, which players will make the team as reserves? (14:05) Plus: Kevin O��Connor sits down with Denver Nuggets star Nikola Jokic to discuss his outstanding play this season (31:46). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up guys and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. I'm Liz Kelly. Here are a couple pieces to check out on the ringer.com before the end of the week. First up is Kevin O'Connor, who's writing about how the Denver Nuggets build a contender in a warrior's world. Then Chris Ryan and Justin Barrier have a rational conversation about Anthony Davis and the trade deadline. And finally, Robert Mays has 10 observations from the first Patriots Rams Super Bowl. Once again, you can check those articles out and tons more on the ringer.com. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the Corner 3. I'm Kevin O'Connor. Joining us today in Los Angeles, back from his trip to Snowy Toronto.

It's Ringer Associate Editor, Danny Chow. The weather's too perfect here. I really missed the zero degrees Fahrenheit snow. It was just beautiful out there. I didn't have to deal with any of like the trudgeries of shoveling snow or driving in it or really dealing with any of it. All I needed to do was basking it. It was great.

So this is your first time in snow, right? Absolutely. First time in like real snow. Real, real snow. And that's the voice of, we're in our staff writer, Jonathan Charks. What's going on, John?

I mean, we get snow like once every few years in Dallas. We aren't quite as soft as you, LA people, I guess. I'm glad you acknowledge that, Danny, because there's a difference between, like, experiencing the snow

and feeling the cold and, like, having the shovel and having to, like, go to work. Yeah. You know, and, like,

if you have to walk to work, you're sweating because of the snow and everything, it's wearing a heavy winter jacket. Okay. All the little things like that. But I will say that, Toronto is like a pedestrian city.

People walk. So if it's zero degrees Fahrenheit outside, they just kind of bear it. You know, you put it on your jacket and you go and walk. That's what I did. Wait, you say zero degrees Fahrenheit? Yeah, zero degrees Fahrenheit.

How did the layers work for you? The layers are great. What are you doing? Yeah, I just zoned out on a layer time. Yeah, like, I feel like half of the country knows exactly what we're dealing with and I feel like I'm giving a guide to half the country. First off, then, we're worldwide.

Forget just the country. You got fans everywhere in the 4th and today's podcast is produced by Isaac Lee. Yeah, it's good to be back, I guess. There's also a basketball team in Toronto, right, Danny? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I think they're called the Raptors. They might be called the Huskies.

And you're wearing a Vince Carter sure right now. NBA All-Star 2000. It's a Raptor long-lost legend Vince Carter's 42nd birthday on Saturday. 42nd, dang. Yeah, yeah. Still in the league, 21st season. Unbelievable. Unreal.

In those Raptors right now, it seems like the hype has died down a little bit. There's been focused turned to Philly, getting Jimmy Butler and Boston having their roller coaster season. And Toronto, meanwhile, they are steady as ever. Despite Kauai still sitting out, the last four games, they're 36 and 14, outscoring teams by five points per 100 positions of season.

That's despite having injuries. Jonas Valaturnanis out, O'G&O be missing time. Kauai resting. This team, to me, when you look at, ahead to the playoffs, still arguably is the favorite right now, over Milwaukee, over Boston. I think so. I think one of the things that you're looking at with this team is that you just haven't seen them put their ideal, or at least what we would consider, their ideal lineups out on the floor yet. And so we're still kind of waiting on that. And that kind of gives them

at least something of an edge. It's something that the Cavs would do under Tyron Loo. They would always wait and see, let their matchups dictate. whatever they were going to be serving up. Well, that's the nice thing about this team with their amount of depth. When OG comes back, when Kauai comes back and Valentunus as well, they have maybe 11 guys deserving of minutes. Like right now, they've been experimenting with Greg Monroe, and that experiment will be over soon.

As soon as Valentuna's returns, he has not been good. I would argue Chris Boucher should be playing over him. Although I will say that that dude can throw a pocket pass. If there's one NBA skill that will never leave him. He can. My God. He can for sure. Greg Monroe.

Yeah. But Charks, you know, you talk a lot about lineups. I think with this team projecting ahead, they have the ability to take on different shapes, different forms, when they're fully healthy. Well, they have for a while, but like, we were saying, well, the Cavs always did down in Toronto, Lou, but they still actually did it.

We'll see what Nick Nurse does in the playoffs, right? Like, maybe saving the time, maybe just not using them. I don't know. One of the guys that struggled this year is C.J. Miles, when this team is fully healthy, though, I'd continue to play him. Their bench hasn't scored well. That's the one problem that they've, had, the bench has not scored.

And C.J. Miles is one of the reasons why he's struggling this season. Well, but he's had a resurgence over the past four games. He has. And this is something that's very inside Toronto and something that I've kind of like felt very intimately. Are you guys aware of the GoDaddy curse? I've heard of this, yeah. I've heard of this.

So in Toronto, GoDaddy has a very specific commercial that they use one Raptors representative every season. I think it's now in its third year. And so it first started with Jonas Valentunus, then went to Norm Powell, then went to CJ Miles. It's a poison chalice. Wow. So every year, the person who ends up with this commercial ends up having a horrific start to the season. CJ Miles shooting only 31% from three, 33% total from the floor.

But ever since I landed in Toronto, CJ Miles has been killing it from three. I'm not actually taking credit here. I'm actually giving credit to Danny Green, actually. one game he actually wore the GoDaddy promotion, which was CJ's PJs. So it was literally like, CJ's Raptors jersey, but made in pajama form.

And he wore that to the game. And that broke the curse. Now I'm sounding like a real crazy Raptors fan, but like that's that's basically what it is. Is this like in the movie it follows? He took the curse from CJ Miles. I will glad that will be what I bear. Yeah, sure.

It's possible. But I think with this team moving forward, they have a lot of guys that they can play, and somebody's going to lose out on minutes. And in the playoffs, that can be a benefit, though, when you have choices, when you can play different styles. Who is their second best player? I mean, doesn't it have to be Kyle Lowry?

It's Lowry, right? If you look at their numbers, they're really kind of falling apart when he's not in. He's been their best playmaker all season. And that's what makes me wonder about this team, is like they really depend on Lowry a lot in the playoffs, and his tracker isn't that good. And the reason why I ask that is because,

you look at his raw numbers, 14 points, 32% from three, you could gloss over that and think, oh, Larry's having it down. 9.9.6 assists, though. Exactly. And that's the big difference. His playmaking is on an even higher level this season. It's never been better. It's absolutely never been better. He's really kind of settled into that role. And it's a role that he's kind of prepared himself for over the past two seasons, allowing himself to take a step back, allowing Demar de Rosen to take much greater leaps forward

as a primary playmaker. Maybe it's one way of self-preservation. Maybe not. Maybe it's just age. But yeah, I'm kind of hoping that Kauai being like this more complete package than DeRosen allows Lowry to flourish in the playoffs for once, you know? But say you say that, but I feel like Kauai's lack of assist kind of worries me. Right.

Like, Kauai is your primary score. I want him to create shots for other people too, actually in the end of the game situation. Right now, you know, Siakum has really been that second playmaker. We'll talk about him a little bit more when we talk about All-Star Reserves in the next section, but his progress this year has been incredible. But I think, to your point, charts, in the playoffs, when Kauai's going to have the ball on his hands a lot more often, I'm not sure he's made quite the leap as a playmaker, as I would have hoped for the season. Everything else is back at an elite level, to be fair.

The tunnel vision, man. Yeah. It can get a little concerning at times. And yet he's one of those weird, hyper-efficient, no, no-yes kind of guys, where he's just bullying dudes down low and he's just so strong and he'll get those and ones out of nowhere and you're like

oh, that wasn't really pretty but I guess. Yeah, Kauai, I mean, he's not LeBron but the way he uses his body and his size and his length. Yeah. He just bullies dudes. But I feel like if we're talking championships, right,

is he going to bully Janus? Is he going to bully KD? Like, he's not to have to beat those guys to win a championship. And to me, will he be well-rounded enough? I feel like that's why they're being fine with. because he's not helping any of those get better. He's just scoring a lot. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm interested in because that one game he had,

or that three-fourths of a game he had against the Warriors was just like, it was so tantalizing to see him just completely dismantle the best team in the NBA. And I want to see if he can do that against the East Elite. Because on the East, it's not deep, but the elites are there. I mean, he might have to be Jimmy Butler, Yannis, and like all the Celtics wings in three straight series. Who knows? That brings us to the NBA watch of the night. There will be a challenge tonight for Kawhi Leonard and the Raptors

against the Houston Rockets. They play at 8 p.m. on ESPN. John, what are you looking for in tonight's game? I think to me for Toronto is like I want to see how they defend James Hard in the pick and roll. Because how they defend that, it's how it'll offend Kyrie Irving or Steph Curry too. Right? How will Serge do in space?

Will they blitz it? Will they just switch it? I think to me that is like the big question about them. One of the big questions about them going forward. And remember if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. Danny, you had a thought about this matchup tonight. Yeah, I think it's kind of an interesting case study, these two teams, in how you kind of fine-tune a championship contender over the course of a season. So last year, I feel like the Rockets kind of showed their hand the very first game of the season. like against the Warriors, they beat the Warriors playing basically PJ Tucker at the Five,

and look, you're basically going to die because you have Hardin and Chris Paul who are way better in isolation than you are. And they just kind of fine-tuned that over the course of a season. Didn't really change their game plan much because, look, what can you really do when you're that well-rounded and you're basically playing five-out? Whereas with the Raptors, it's like, Nick Nurse is really giving, a lot of different players, a lot of different opportunities to show what they can do. We still haven't really seen what I call it the T-800 lineup, where you have Kauai, Pascal, and O.G.

out there at the same time defending. You haven't really seen them at their best. And when I was there, I saw Pascal Seacom game-winning layup against the Suns, ISO Pascal. The Suns weren't really expecting it. And to be honest, like, that's kind of the way that the Raptors have been working it. They've just kind of been going with the hot hand and going with what's been working in the flow of the game. And I'm curious to see how that changes during the playoffs. I think to your point with Toronto, I mean, right now they have the second best record in the NBA.

I believe they have the fourth best net rating, I think right now. The fifth tied with the nuggets outscoring teams by five points per 100 possessions. It feels like there's more to this team. Right. There's more to them that we haven't seen. Whereas Houston last season is spectacular as they were all year. and it went seven games in the playoffs. It's like it didn't work.

They went deep. Had they won that game seven, they would have won the NBA finals. Toronto can evolve. And like we said at the top, they can shape shift and play different styles. And that's what they do with Valanchunis and Ibaka. Certain matchups they start Valentura,

certain ones I start Ibaka. They can play small with the Siakam, OG, Kauai front court if they want to. And two with Houston, you saw Chris Paul break down at the end of the playoffs. Like they're keeping Kauai on ice, really. He is really not being pushed very much at the their sees in terms of minutes.

Yeah, with that, it almost feels as though the Raptors are kind of trolling the league. Like, this whole load management thing, it's like, it's interesting. Like, obviously they want to conserve them, but at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if they were trolling because Nick Nurse is a character. He is a true character, like,

he can tell some jokes in locker room, scrums, and stuff like that, so. I enjoy Nick Nurse. Very entertaining. Pre-game media. He's great. One of the more engaging coaches in the league. You were there to a story to Annie? When is that dropping? That will be dropping on Thursday. And again, I hate doing this promising a date before the piece is fully written, before the piece is fully edited, but it will drop sometime next week. Danny, do you want to tease anything from that story coming

out next week? You know, here's a random observation. Pascal Seacum, he can down 64 ounces of orange juice in one sitting. I watched the dude. So I was... 64 ounces. Yeah. Two leaders. Two leaders. I was interviewing Danny Green up in their cafeteria area in their practice facility and Pascal was just sitting right next to us and the dude just like tilts his jug of orange juice into his glass so violently and like I'm like terrified that it's going to spill all over the place the orange juice like hits the rim of the glass and just falls in and I'm just like you have the softest touch of any man alive

it is like a microcosm of his game like it was just hard charging and then all of a sudden it just drops in all so beautifully. I was in awe. He just down two leaders and funny, but it wasn't like as a bit. He was just doing it to have a normal meal or something. Yeah, no, he was just enjoying it with his normal meal. He had like a plate of like eggs or something like that

and then just like by the time I was done with my interview. Or even before that, it was like halfway through my interview. He had walked away and the jug of orange juice was gone. It was like a three-minute interview release in the 90 seconds. Is that healthy? I'm not a nutrition person, but that cannot be that healthy. Does he also spin while he eat? It's like he does on the court.

Oh, no, but the orange you span. Yes, yes. Yeah, it's, or spun, sorry. What am I? An editor? You're a great editor, Danny. Moving on, let's talk about some All-Star Reserves. All-Star starters were announced yesterday.

LeBron James and Yannison and Akumpo will serve as captains after receiving the most votes in their respective conferences on February 7th. Those two are going to draft players live on television from the remaining pool of players. And those guys are from the East, Joe Lombid, Kaui Leonard, Carrie Irving, Kenba Walker,

And from the West, Steph Curry, James Hardin, Kevin Durant, and Paul George, the reserves are going to be voted on by the coaches. And that's what we'll be discussing today. Let's start in the West. Which guys do we consider locks, John? I did a piece yesterday talking about that. And I had it in the West as Yokic Davis, Gobert and Lillard. They seem pretty safe to make it, I think. You agree with that, Danny?

I think so. Yeah. We're all on the same pace. It's kind of hard to leave two MVP candidates off the All-Star team, you know? I mean, right now, like across the league, there's maybe 10 guys deserving of top five MVP votes right now. I think Yannis LeBron O'Hardin win it, but in those last two slots, a lot of guys could go into there. Who's the next guy on your list that you would consider a lot, maybe a personal list? Is there one guy that can work himself to be a lock?

Because Carl Anthony Town sticks out to me, the tier he has been on, averaging 26 points per game this month. with great efficiency. He's been much better defensively as well. Ever since the Jimmy Butler trade, he's been really good defensively, but his offense has really elevated the last month and a half

or two months. I think he's not quite a lot, but he's close. I think despite Russell Westbrook's just horrid shooting, the overall success of the Thunder and the value he gives to them despite his shooting woes,

despite him kind of playing through that, it's undeniable. I think he's a lock. I mean, he's still going to triple double, right? Yeah, man. Triple levels are all that matter. It's all that matters to him. Well, he's playing better defense, which I appreciate.

If you're going to miss every shot you take, you probably should play better on defense. So I appreciate that much. One of the difficulties in the West with how deep it is is the fact that you have only two guard spots, three front court spots, and then two wild card spots. And we already occupied all those front court spots right now. And Westbrook, I agree that he's deserving of one spot,

but that means at your last wild card spot or your last guard spot, depending where you put them, somebody's getting screwed here, whether it's, you know, Jamal Murray, or if you're putting, or Drew Holiday,

or if you're putting Westbrook in the guard spot, if you're not, then it's a front court player, like Dano Gallagheri or Tobias Harris, or Lamarra or Omar de Rosen. Right, yeah. Or Luca Donchich. Charks, between those clippers guys,

if there's one of those two that's deserving of being the game, who do you think gets the edge and why? Okay, so I was thinking it was Tobias Harris, but Isaac is actually convinced me at Scalanari, and I got to watch. watched the Clippers play the Mavs the other night for the great return of Dennis Smith,

Jr. And to me, without Gallo in there, the ball didn't move very well. Like, it was obvious to me, like, Tobias can score better, but Gallo's the better playmaker. And also, he's played some five this year. I feel like Gallo really is the piece that makes everybody else around him better. So I think I would give it to him over Tobias. Should he make the team? The Clippers are kind of falling off pretty hard.

I feel like they've got at least stabilized in the top eight for him to make the team, because he's missed some games, too. Yeah, especially considering both Tobias and. and Gallo don't really have the name brand recognition. I think they have a much higher bar to clear over the next, however many games, to actually merit that kind of consideration. Just from our conversation, do we all agree Holiday Towns in Westbrook at those last three spots? Or is there any disagreement there?

I put De Rosen in there. I think he's been very under way of this season. I hate to do it, but I love Holiday, but the Pelican just haven't been very good. I don't know that's his fault. But to me, De Rosen changing his game to replace DeJante Murray has just been, like, incredible. he's like a legit point forward now. I think he's really got the Spurs as somewhat legit team. Here's my thing, though.

How much should team success really factor in? Because with the Rose and the Spurs have one of the best benches in the league. Whereas with the Pelicans, we've talked about this before. When Adi and Holliday are on the floor, they are like a 60 win team. When you pull one of them off, they became like a 60 loss team. And like, that's no fault of Drew Holliday. Yeah. But he individually has been tremendous defensively, as always, defending multiple positions.

and he's been kicking ass on offense as well. I have a hard time not putting him there. Yeah, the team, like, if you look at net rating solely on off court, I mean, the team falls apart more with Drew off the floor than AD. I would say I would take Drew over Westbrook, I think if that was, if there's really come down to it. Yeah, it's a weird thing where, like, I don't really know how to calibrate the whole.

Do you reward a team for being extremely good during the season? And then about those guys who are on the fringe, do you reward their individual numbers more than team success? It's all pretty convoluted. I feel like I'm leaning more towards, as I get older, like rewarding team success. I get why coaches do it because it's so hard to convince players to accept smaller roles. So like if you're going to be a smaller role on a better team,

you don't have the stats to back that up. Let's give them that little bit of candy. Like, hey, man, you can be an all-star. It's hard to get guys to play smaller roles. What's the case for Luca Dant-Sharks? I mean, Luca's been incredible, obviously. But as a Mavs fan, I'm going to try to put him in right now. for as great as he's been.

Like, for me, the guy, yeah, I mean, for one, yeah, let's not build him up too much. Two, the guy who's been trying winning for them as J.J. Berea, when Beret went down, the team immediately plummeted. Like, Luca is great.

Love Luca, but I'm not sure he raises guys games right now as a rookie, which you probably shouldn't anyways. All these names that were mentioning, Aldridge, DeRozen, Gall and Ari, these are guys who probably unquestionably

would be on the back end of an Eastern Conference on our roster. Yeah. But right now with conferences, it's still 12 each in each conference. I'd like for that to change. But Kevin, that's never going to change, though, right? Why, though? Why would the Eastern players give up their All-Star spots?

They even have a choice? I mean, how is this thing going to happen? It's not done unilaterally. Yeah, and plus, like, the brand recognition of being an All-Star reflects well on the Eastern Conference teams. They wouldn't want to lose out on that as well. Well, it's the same reason they never changed the playoff structure either. Like, it's just, we have to live in reality. But this is a real question.

Is there something in the CBA with all-star rosters being 12-man each where they could argue against that? Well, I mean, I'm sure not just the players, not just the teams too. The Eastern Conference teams wouldn't be like, here's four all-star spots we don't want anymore, right? I don't know who decides that,

but I'm guarantee you it wouldn't just be like, oh, no problem, take our all-star spots. I mean, yeah, sure, but ultimately if you're putting, I don't know, this is not a knock, but if you're putting Eric Blitzow in the game, over a far more deserving Western Conference All-Star, like DeRosen, or Lamarcos Aldridge, or one of the other guys with, like, if Russell Westbro would have missed the game,

because a 12th guy needs to make it in the East, that just seems silly to me. Yeah, well, of course, but, you know. There's a lot of unfair things in the world, chaos. I know there are. I know there are. I just want the 24 best guys in the game, that's all. I mean, in reality, I wanted Vince Carter to dunk in the dunk contest in his prime, his entire career. I wanted LeBron in there once.

You know, like, we just never got it, you know? It's fine. All-Star Weekend is all about managing expectations. Who are our locks in the East? I mean, Blake has to be there, right? Point Blake has finally been unleashed this season. He's been great. The Pistons haven't been anything.

I mean, there aren't many locks, honestly. Yeah, like Bradley Beale is one. Yeah, I'd give him to him, too. He's been stuck with Wall Out. Why not? Vooch? I don't think he's a lot. I mean...

He's a lock. Is he a lot? I mean, Orlando's really full. falling off recently. He's slaying. He individually is, I mean, I realize it's like,

yeah, they stink, but it's like, he's carrying their offense. But I think that's just, that's just the entire east. You know, there are five good teams in the,

or six playoff, worthy teams. Even the nets and that's six teams? Yeah, yeah. Shout out to the above 500 nets. I believe they've won 18 out of 22 or something like that,

18 out of 23. They're slaying. It's ever been unbelievable. So, you know, I mean, we have to, we have to get these players

from somewhere. Yeah. kind of my issue with the situation right now. Which fringe candidate should be an All-Star in the East? Okay, I was curious what y'all think about this. Do you all think Chris Middleton is going to be an All-Star?

I think you should be. If the Bucks end up with the best record, I think they definitely have to have more than one All-Star representing them. I'd lean Bledso. I think he's been more important to the team. Really? Handles more responsibility in offense,

I think been better overall defensively at his position. Granted Middleton is a little bit more versatility. I think Bledso has just been better, I'd give him the edge over Middleton. See, to me, I just feel like Middleton's a uniquely valuable player. I'd have to put him in. Elaborate. I feel like Middleton's the best second option in the East right now

over all the other guys they have out there. Yeah, charts dropped this take on me yesterday. I was like, oh, okay, that's pretty hot. Wait, the best second option. In the East, yeah. Over Ben Simmons. Over, you know. Well, if your second option should be a good three-point shooter, shouldn't he?

Right? Like, if you put Ben Simmons in Milwaukee, he's playing off Yanis. That'd be very difficult. Put it this way. Middleton's in the conversation. And that says a lot about the East right now. Well, see, no, to me, I think Middleton is like a top 20 player easily.

I mean, let me give me some Chris Middleton love. Does that mean you're taking Middleton over, like, Tatum is a second option? Easily. Yeah. Actually, yeah, I would do that too. I mean, for one thing, Middleton, like I was doing my Joe Engel story.

I was looking at six foot eight players who shoot more than five threes a game, get more than four assists, have more in one steal. It's Middleton Ingalls and LeBron. And to me, like, a six-foot eight, volume shooter who can defend multiple positions, that kind of player is an incredibly valuable in a playoff

series. He freaking destroyed Boston last year in the playoffs. He was putting up like 25 a night. And to me, a guy like that is like incredibly valuable because he like puts so much pressure on the defense at the three point line that he opened the space for Yonis to attack the rim. One player who was a lock was Victor

Olipo who ruptured his left quad. Fortunately, he'll be out for the rest of the season. That's usually a seven or eighth month recovery. Same injury that Tony Parker had. but now that he's out, who slips in, John? Well, besides my guy, Chris Middleton, right? Yeah, besides him. So would y'all put Miles Turner in as like a Pacer's representative?

I think that's the move. I think Turner, when I look at my article I put up on Monday, like I didn't have Turner as an also. I think I made a mistake. I think Turner's so good defensively. We saw that earlier this weekend, like Raptors game, granted Kauai wasn't playing, but him on switches against Kyle Lowry. He's been doing that all year against guards. He's not only a great room protector.

an enforcer, but he's been good on switches overall. And he doesn't do a lot offensively, but he's solid. But you know who else didn't do a lot offensively and who was a two-time all-star with the Pacers? Roy Hibbert. And I think Miles Turner is invariably more valuable to the Pacer's offense than Roy Hibbert was back then. He's better than Roy Hibbert. We can definitely agree on that.

One guy who we didn't mention who was a lock, I had him as a starter. I think Ben Simmons should be a lock. I'd put him in the roster for sure. The bigger question with Philadelphia is Jimmy Butler. Players gave him the throat. Media did not. Fans did it as well. I wonder what coaches will do with Jimmy Ballar.

What will they decide with all the shenanigans that happened this season? Do you think that matters that Minnesota stuff should be taken into account? It's hard to tell with coaches, right? You never really know how they're going to lean. You never really know what they're necessarily prioritizing. I mean, Jimmy Butler is one of the biggest names in the East. There's no doubt about that. I don't know how you kind of escape that, you know?

Yeah. What I chose was I put Bletso and Seacum in Ola Depot when he was still in there as the last three guys over him. And it's like, I mean, the East Coast is really going to put Pascal Seaccom over Jimmy Butler. There is no way. I don't think so either. I think Butler isn't making the team. Well, I wonder, like, if you flipped Butler and Middleton, would that make Philly a better team? Yes.

Yes. Right? I love the versatility. Basically, Chris Middleton gives the Sixers everything that they've wanted since letting Covington and Sarge go. You're basically getting a guy who is kind of a fusion of the two, a guy who is a reliable defender but can also put the ball on the floor and create for others, and who shoots three is at a good rate. That's invaluable for a team like the Sixers.

I think it's possible. I think Butler's a better isolation player, better shot creator, but Milton's good too. Yeah, and he accepts the smaller role. Like, to me as a coach, like, I appreciate a guy. I've been like, you know what, Yanis is the best player. I'm going to play in my position where I went a bunch of games. Coaches have no much power of players. Butler, I don't know what happened.

He played in Milwaukee. He might be like, I'm the best player. Give me the ball, Yonah, spot up on the corn perimeter. I think with Butler, I don't want to read too much into it during the regular season. But his defense has not been great this year. It's been solid. I mean, as always, but it has not been stellar all NBA level defense like we've seen from him in the past. And that might be because he's dealing with some injuries.

Maybe he's coasting a little bit to preserve energy for a potential deep player. off run with Philly, but his defense has not been quite as good. And we'll see how that changes in the playoffs. They could be better with Middleton. I would not argue too much against that. Oh, I guess we should talk about DeAngel Russell, too, right? We got to talk about D.R. We're going to talk about him.

I think Russell, I screwed up. I forgot the copy and paste some names for like the end of the list, guys, like who are also in consideration. Oh, you didn't even mention them? Oh, man. There is no respect for GERR anywhere. It's like 4,000 words. I forgot to copy and paste one thing over.

there is a strong argument for him. What is it, Charks? Well, I mean, he's been the primary ball handler on a team that's been freaking incredible last month and a half. Like, after Levert went down, they needed time to figure out the rotation, and now Russell's being the man that built around him. Though I'm not sure, is he an all-star?

Is he the very much Benwitty even? I'm not even sure. I mean, we'll see in the next, however many games, Dinwidie's out for the next month, at least. DeAngel has the numbers, but I'm not sure he's quite there yet. DeAngelo this season is

averaging 17.3 field goal attempts per game, which is interesting because of players to average over 17 shots per game in NBA history, DeAngel Russell is attempting the least free throws ever at 1.9. That's a good stat, KOSC. Ever. Lowest free throw weight of any player to attempt as many shots as he has. He does not get to the basket, does not draw fouls, but yet he's still just slaying this year for Brooklyn. I think that's- Slaying your new word. You've been selling a lot in the spot, yeah. Yeah, but he is slaying it, though, 193 points per game.

He's really carried Brooklyn. I think there's an argument for him for that final spot. Yeah, I mean, especially if the Nets, you know, keep going with the way they've been playing. And Russell's going to have to take over a lot more responsibility now that Dinwiddie's out. Dinwiddie closed a lot of those games. We're about to see how much higher Russell can get. And he's, what, 22 right now?

It's kind of crazy how young he is. is, yeah. This is what year four in the league for him at 22? Unreal. Danny,

are there any ways to improve the all-star voting process? I mean, I'm as cool with it as I'm ever going to be. Like,

my take is that we should have IBM Watson make all of the all-star selections. Look, I love bad basketball. I love it to death,

but like I have my limits and the all-star game is kind of my limit. I'm probably not going to watch it. Yeah. I mean,

I watched a basketball in my life. Like, I got to watch a lot of college, too. Like, at some point,

There's got to be a limit. I don't know. Yeah, that can be a weekend just focusing entirely on college basketball. It's kind of the draft, right? That's an idea. We'll see. There'll be an interesting weekend. Looking ahead of the weekend, though, what's the number one game you're looking forward to, John?

I'm really curious to see this Utah, Minnesota home and home. Like, Minnesota's right now at 24 and 24, they're on the fringe of the playoff race. Utah's been great. If Minnesota wants to make a run, this is the time to do it. And then, of course, there's the Rudy Gobert, Carl Towns matchup to just fascinating. How about you, Danny? I'm going to take it back to draft class. Let's watch

Kansas, Kentucky. There are a bunch of scoutable players in here. I think Kelton Johnson out of Kentucky is probably a lock for a low lottery pick. PJ Washington's shown steady improvement, really improved his range, really improved his touch. Kansas has Quinn Grimes,

who has actually had a miserable season, but you never really know when he's going to turn on. Dietrich Lawson has basically been everything that's been advertised. You know, neither Cal or self have really approved of this game. They kind of don't want to go away from league play. They have to play this like prove it game for some reason. But let's get it on.

Let's get some college basketball in our system. I'm looking forward to Sixers Nuggets on Saturday night. That's what I'm stoked for. That is pretty fun. Yeah. Speaking of the Numer Nuggets, I wrote a feature story about Nicole Yokic and the Funky Bunch on The Ringer.com this week.

I interviewed Nicole Yokic. We're going to play that full interview for you next. Danny, John, thank you guys. Dang, man. He wouldn't even talk to me in the preseason. That's what KOC is a legend. They were like, he doesn't like media so you can't talk to him. I was like, really?

Wow. I thought I went back and read your story charts. I thought you did talk to him for that. I know. I got him in a scrum. I was like, I'm getting some questions and I don't even care. But he wouldn't talk to him one-on-one. Well, Nicola was very engaging.

Hope you enjoy the interview, everybody. It's actually my first time in Denver. first game at time in a Nuggets game last night that crowd was pretty intense is it is it always that special like it was last night actually like this year it's I mean I think it's Nick told me that it's like sellouts ever like we had like 16

from like 16 sellouts 15 now out of the 15 yeah so the people are coming so like the most of the time it's like that so I mean I like it like it, the team like it. So it's really nice to play in front of that atmosphere. You said in 2017, you don't know if I can be a superstar. But last night, there's MVP chance.

You're going to be an all-star, possibly all-NBAs. It's still weird or like shocking. I think it's fun. There's something new. It's fun. I don't really think about it that much, to be honest, but it's kind of cool just that, like, the whole arena is chanting to you. So it's kind of cool.

Do you see that potential now? Do you think you can be an MVP someday at this point? I mean, I didn't know that I can play in NBA, but everything is possible. So maybe one day. You mentioned not thinking you could be in the NBA someday. I know in past interviews you mentioned playing in EuroLeague. That was a dream. But it seems like one guy that's always believing you has been Mike Malone.

Like from the start, he's always really empowered you. Like he talked about how you could be an All-Star. Now he's talking about like Hall of Fame potential. How does that empowerment, how has that empowerment made a difference for you in your career? I mean, he gave me the chance to play the game. He saw something in me. He saw, I don't know what he saw, to be honest, but he saw something. And he gave me a chance.

I use that chance. And now right now we're really good. Like, I like the communication, the relationship that me and coach have. We're trusting each other. So that's something that builds through years. You know, it's not something that just happened, you know. You mentioned the trust. I think it was some interview.

you said when you were a kid, you'd throw like crazy passes. And now you're throwing those crazy passes at an NBA level, and they're accurate, and they're getting to their intended receiver. The freedom alone provided you obviously helps you now. Do you think when you were a kid, not having somebody say, no, don't throw those? And ended up making a difference now? Even when I played in my last team, Mega Maxx in that time, coach kind of gave me the freedom.

When I made the mistake, he saw what I saw. You know, so he treated me. He didn't just stop me doing my thing, you know. So even when I back home in summer, I had really good passes. And my coaches always embraced me to continue to do that. So it's something they pushed you to do more of? They just let me go. Let's say like that.

They didn't push me. Was there ever a coach in your past that was like, stop? No, no, never. Right now you are one of three players, six foot 11 or taller to ever, over six assists per game. That's Kevin Garnett, Will Chamberlain, and you, I think you're probably the most talented passing center I've ever seen with the potential to be the best

if you do it over the course of time. And, you know, obviously you have the highlight real passes, but... Yeah, I always wanted to pass the ball, so that's kind of the thing. You see, I could just finish. I can just shoot from there, you know, so why not?

But I just wanted to pass the ball. He does a open man in a corner, and the corner three is the easier shot in the game, so. And I mean, I always think that a great pass, a great shooter is always become from the Gary Passer. You know, it's something that you make

his life easier, you know, he's ready to shoot, just put the ball something that don't put him off his shot, you know. So I think the passing is really important. Just the easy passing, just like not assist, just pass to the guy. I think that's really underrated in NBA because just with the easy pass, you can

make him have a huge lead in front of his opponent. Right now, look at there. Like, the event turning is in the pain right now. As if that passes to the left, right, there's that extra millisecond of adjustment that it has to bring the ball to a shot pocket. How do you master that, though? Right? I mean, like, with those pinpoint passes, is there some point in your life where you

are like, you know, you have a target that you're trying to hit, or is it something that just sort of came naturally for you, that you just have great hand-eye coordination and it's just always been there? I mean, I think I always play, pass the right way, like how it's supposed to pass, you know. Probably something in my hands, I don't know, but the ball is always going where I want to go. So probably some kind of talent or whatever, but thank everybody, thank God, whatever, who gave me the talent, my parents, whatever. Does it manifest for you in other areas, really like video games or darts? I mean, I'm really good at video games.

seen. I like to play all kind of bar games, like billiard, pool, whatever, darts, whatever. Post-N-B-A career, could you go pro in any of those? No, I'm going to go horsing, probably. You said in the past that you have like a, you can take a snapshot of what's happening on the floor, and so you don't need to look back to see your teammates. You know where they're going to be without having to look. But how do you develop that chemistry with those guys where you can take the snapshot, but they don't know that you know that they're there.

So how does that chemistry develop over time? I know my person. I know my team really good. That's one thing. I know everybody how they want to play, how was their shot. So I think that's one thing. Another thing is they need to be on their spot.

They cannot do something crazy because I'm going to find them if he is on his spot. You can see the last game when I passed to Tori. Tori kind of move to the slot and he's supposed to be in the corner and I passed to the coach in the bench. So, you know, so it was a bad pass,

but if Tori was in his spot, so that would be a good pass too, you know. And it's not just highlight reels, like the last one and the ones that, like, go viral and all that. It's like fundamental plays, DHOs, pick and rolls. I think I start doing this first and then the other passes. I think that's just, I started that for my first year with Gary.

We were really good in backdoor passes. That's just the chemistry. a two-me game, but they look at it in his eyes, I know what he's going to do. And right now I'm really good with Jamal too. So, you know, that's something they're just clicking in the players, and they just start playing like one. You mentioned now with Jamal, you guys have that pick and roll connection with you, handling and him screening.

How does something like this develop? It's kind of unique play. You can see, like, you never see the small guys rolling. So nobody's even helping So what he's going to do You know So it's just something that we Invol like

We just wanted to get better You can see the two main game Is he's sending screen for me I'm sending his way he's just giving go Pass and cut You know we're just going to want to get better And I think we can be really good Like we can become really unstoppable

In some point you know Malone said last night Like this play is one of the highest efficiency Pick and Roll combinations with you handling and him screening. I think you can see pretty consistently, regardless of the defense you're facing, there's always a moment of hesitancy

where they don't know whether to switch or what to do. Even they do that. Because my first option is to drive the ball, just to drive. You can see they're all the time there. And like when they do that, yeah. So your first option is actually to drive before pass. I'm talking just to score because like the big guys

doesn't know how to, I doesn't know how to guard a pick in a little bit if I'm handling the ball, you know, if my guy handling the ball. So it's kind of just unique play. It's something that you don't see, you don't feel, you don't, you don't practice that, you know. So it's kind of hard to play that or defend that, so I think it's just

a unique play that we involved. Maurice said last night that he played a lot of five growing up, then four, then three, then two, and one. Like, he just works his way from the five to one. For you, did you actually play point guard when you were going, or is it more like he just passed a lot? No, I dribbled the ball. lot. I bring in the ball

on the course. So there was a point guard, but I was doing kind of his job too. So it's something that does help me a lot now. I think it speaks to like today's positionless league, really, where like you're a quote-unquote center but you're sort of not, you're a point guard of the team. I mean, you can see right now

like NB, Anthony Davis, Carl Anthony Towns, Brooklyn pays he shooting three, he's playing as a ring now. So it's kind of like basketball really change a lot right now. So everybody needs to do everything on the floor. With Murray, you guys also do this off ball as well where like he's setting a screen for you

here and you're just defense is totally confused. Like is this something you see in film ahead of time that you know it probably. That's just a play. He's a great screener. He's a he's a strong guy. Like he's he's a point guard but he's really strong for point guard. So I don't know. Did you see his dad? His dad is Crazy guy. He's like, he's like little fridge. You're not going to move him. He's like a better version of him. Murray does have kind of that wide body, like six foot three, but he's wide. Nicole. That's just a play that we have. What do you miss most about not being famous? I'm trying to be not famous, to being not famous for real, like especially when I go home. I just want to be a regular guy. Like, I'm doing a regular thing.

I think the media like puts you on that spot like in the like you're a star whatever or you know so I just want to I just want to be a regular guy I miss

I can go out and just don't take any pictures and don't like bring a lot of people to me you know so I just want to be a regular guy Is it like simple stuff like even just go into like the convenience store to get like a bag of chips or whatever

like just little things like that there's always eyes looking at you there is always like oh look at him I mean, that's a normal thing for real, but I just want to, I just want to be a normal guy, you know? With the billboards and the MVP chance, do you, have you had a moment? It doesn't help a lot. Yeah, that doesn't help a lot. It's a part of the job that we, we sign for, so you got to do what you got to do. Was there ever, like all the stuff, the billboards, the chance, is there ever a time where you're like, this is actually happening to me?

To me, for real, that's not the really big thing. So, I mean, you just play basketball. And that's just what I do. I don't care for outside stuff. You've obviously come far physically. And I lost 40 pounds in 2011. So I know that year, like, how good it felt, how much better I felt by the end of it. But I also know about like the sacrifices.

Like I miss eating mac and cheese. I miss pounding like two boxes of goldfish. I miss little things like that. But it's like you sort of don't because you. learn new foods and all that. But is there any one food that you wish you could have back that you don't have now? Yeah, I kind of treat. I don't eat it like that anymore.

I can eat everything right now, but I just need to control it. You can eat every day or every week. You just eat, you can eat one. But something that I miss here that I have back home is like a fish too. That is kind of traditional in my area where I live in back home is somber. So I just missed that. You went to P3 in Santa Barbara, I think, entering your rookie season. What do they do with you there?

I did a draft and then I go there and then I stay home one more year in Serbia. But I think that was a good thing. That's a good center because you can just go there and they will do everything for you. You don't need to think about practices. You don't need to do it. Especially the guy who can not want to go to draft or want to like a tryout, whatever. now just to that's a really good center

because a lot of a lot of NBA players going there just to stay in shape during, during off season so how has improved conditioning helped you on the defensive end of the floor? A lot just because you can

you can you can guard more, you can like be in stance, you can when my first year like the not the fatigue like I was getting tired

and that my brain was like oh you know I couldn't think right now So I just like, it's easy for, it's getting easy for me, you know. I did a really good job last two summers with my body. Of course, Felipe and my first year, Steve Hess did a really good job. And I'm really good, like, connection and communication with Felipe, and he's always got my back.

Was there a moment for you where you're like, oh, this is working? I can feel this. Yeah, you can, like, when you gain one pound, body, like, body. body weight, that's like five pounds on your ankles, like on your joints, you know. So it feels better, definitely better just to be lighter,

you know. But to me, personally, I like to be a little bit heavier, but not like heavy, heavier. Just if I can be to be a little bit lighter than a little bit heavier, I'm going to be a little bit heavier. Who are the guys you were watching on YouTube when you were a teenager? I mean, I watch everybody. Michael Jordan, for Magic Johnson.

I like Team Duncan. I love Dersnavsky. I love Boris Diyah in that moment. So kind of everybody, there is one guy, Novice of Alecovich, when he was in Partisan, he was in Real Madrid. So he was a rising star of EuroLeague. And he played a little bit of basketball at a high level. So there is a lot of players that I kind of watch. What did you learn from your brother's basketball-wise?

Not much. I kind of mixed both of them. So my younger brother in the middle, He was really talented. He was a great shooter. He was like 6, 6, 6, 6, 5, 6, 6, and he can shoot. He would be really good in now basketball. In my older brother, he was everything except basketball player.

He was a worker. He was a hard worker. He was really strong. He was a good roller screener. He was a really, really strong guy. It seems like talking to your teammates and hearing Mike Malone talk about you. They all seem to appreciate you as a teammate, but also I've grown as a leader, this season. How have you seen yourself grow into this leadership role?

They put me on that spot. I didn't accept it. You seem like you still haven't accepted it. I didn't accept it because I think this is a really good team and that's why we're playing good. I think one guy cannot be a team and one guy cannot do anything without a team. So, you know, the team is everything for me. Malone in the past was critical of, you know, sometimes body language or taking bad files. Is that something you did you've improved at? No, sometimes I do that for real to piss him off.

No, I'm joking. I'm joking. That's something that I'm getting better at, so just not downfalls. My bottle language is very much better this year than last year, so I'm getting better. You have two young players, and Michael Porter and Jared Vanderbilt who haven't played yet. Have you practiced with them? What do you see them bring to the team once they are able to return to the floor? Of course, they're really good athletic.

they can bring the size they can be something on the defensive end Vanduk and guard 1 through 5 basically and Michael Porter is really

offensively talented guy you're going to be an all-star this season you're in the MVP conversation but you're only 23 don't turn 24 until next month what can you get better at? I'm still not an all-star first of all and then

hopefully one day I am going to be I think you can always improve your game just to get better in every aspect of the game just like you see sometimes it's just mentally sometimes it's just like getting stronger just I'm gonna my last hand is gonna be better so there is a lot of a lot of

things that you can improve you know so so it seems like for you it's it's about you're already had a left hand so it's a little mastering that left hand getting it at an even higher level where it is now. So it's taking strengths and making them stronger, taking, you know, average skills and making them good. So it's steps like that.

Yeah, of course, like a defense, be better and defense. Like slide your feet better. So it's kind of something that you just want to get better and better. But just if you can be like 1% better than this season, that's an improve for you, you know. What's your favorite part about Colorado? For somebody who's my first time here, what's the first place to check out?

I like the weather, to be honest, the most, because I like the fresh air. The mountains, whenever you go close to mountains, there are a lot of parts. You can play, pick up basketball, tennis, whatever you want to play. Spike ball. That's my new favorite off basketball thing to do.

Spike ball? What's spike ball? It's like a net, like, a little ball, and you spike the ball in the ground, and there is a net, and just it's like two and two. It's kind of wallable, but just on a really small area. You mentioned you play video games.

What are the games you're playing right now? League of Legends is my game. And I stay in connection with my friend back home. Like I grew up with it. But I just love the game. Like keep me off the world. I'm in the game. So I don't think about anything else.

You used to play Call of Duty. Do you still play shooting games now? Yeah. I'm kind of playing whatever, like whatever. I play Counterstrike with Bobby Mariano, with the guy for Clippers and Teldosich. You know, so whatever is a group of people are playing. I killed Nick last year.

Is that last year or two years ago? Both. I killed him in the NBA 2K, so, yeah, it's kind of a little bit of everything. I used to play a lot of video games. I know the Call of Duty Mono War for 2. I logged, like, I don't know, like 32 days. Like in that game, you can see your time play. which is embarrassing to admit,

but I think the one thing I miss most of all the time is just like talking trash. Do you talk trash playing online games? Especially when I play against my friends, then yes, of course. I mean, when I play against my brothers, I play just to talk trash to them. I don't even, like sometimes I stop playing just to talk trash to them.

So especially when you play something like against brothers, friends, like whoever. I appreciate you taking the time, Nicole. Of course. Thank you again to Nicole Yokic for taking the time of chat. You can check out my story on Theringer.com. Thank you again to Deanie and John. We're looking forward to next Friday.

Thank you, Isaac, for producing the show. And thank you for listening to Quirna 3. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes, give us a thumb up on YouTube, tell your friends, tell your family about the show. You make us all super happy if you do that. Thank you again for listening. We'll be back next Friday.

Have a beautiful weekend, everybody.