The Ringer NBA Show - The Sixers’ Worst Dreams Are Being Realized. Plus, Are We Seeing a Combo-Guard Renaissance? | The Corner 3

Episode Date: May 8, 2019

We go over what appears to be the worst possible timeline for the Sixers—backs against the wall in the present, uncertain of how to build their Frankenstein roster in the future (1:15). Then, we run down the larger takeaways from the other series: Boston’s been overwhelmed by Milwaukee, Paul Millsap has found his old form, and the Rockets’ swingmen have been critical (24:50). Finally, we finish with some draft talk about what lessons we can learn from these playoffs, including (for the hundredth time) that teams shouldn’t take inexperienced rim-running centers over skilled combo guards (44:10). Hosts: Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Season 8 of Game of Thrones is underway, and you can stay up to date with the ringer staff as we make our way through the final episodes of the series. On the podcast side, listen to Binge Mode Game of Thrones with Mallory Rubin and Jason Concepcion, the Watch with Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald, and a pre-capable series on the recapables feed

where we'll make predictions on episodes to come. In addition to our Sunday night Twitter after show called Talk the Thrones, our YouTube channel has tons of other Game of Thrones-related content, which you can find at YouTube.com the ringer. And for even more Thrones coverage, head over to the ringer.com. Hello and welcome to the ringer NBA show. This is another long two edition of the Corner 3. My name is Danny Chow. And joining me on the other line in Dallas is Ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. How's it going, man? Good, man. Kevin is out. If you haven't gotten a

chance to read his piece about his father, I think it came out last week. It's pretty incredible. It's definitely worth your time. I would recommend checking that out for sure. Absolutely. Our hearts and minds are with the O'Connor family. Yeah, so we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel in the Eastern Conference. The two best teams in the regular season in the East are kind of taking control of their respective series. The Raptors had a true statement game five win at home, winning by 36 points on Tuesday, and the Bucks have a commanding 3-1 lead over the Celtics after their easy win over the Celtics on Monday. it's a tough time to be a Sixers or Celtics fan right now.

John Gonzalez and Michael Baumann got pretty deep into their sadness last night on an emergency pod, which you can check out now, or not now, but after you're done listening to me and Charks Rammel for the next hour. Nice. But, you know, with one more loss, we might be, you know, staring at the darkest timeline for both teams, which is pretty disappointing given how wide open their window has looked only a few months ago.

Let's start with Philly. What kickstarts their darkest timeline jerks? Well, isn't it amazing? It was just last week, Mbid was doing the airplane. He was windmill and dunks. Like, life was good, man. The playoffs, life will turn on you fast. I just, I don't know really what to make of these string of illnesses.

They're not even injuries. They're illnesses in the second round that can't really be lumped into his physical kind of injuries over the years. But it's really disappointing that he can't really seem to stay 100% on the court for very long at all. Yeah, my thing with Embed, I just feel like even taking out the injuries, even taking out the illnesses, you're seeing, he's like seeing how he has to, like, improve his game. Because, like, most of the season, Mb can just dominate people.

Like, he's too big. He's too fast. He just scores a will, right? But against, like, a Marcosol, against an Al Horford, that's just not enough. Like, you have to have polish your game. You have to make your jump shots. You've got to make the right passes. You've got to get a right position on defense.

Like, Embeded is learning just how good you have to be to play at this level. I mean, it's easy to forget he's only 25. This is his third year in the NBA. Like, most guys like Embed, they need time to get better. Or even like, I remember with, so I was back to Dirk, right? So, Dirk, when he was in Dallas, like, the story is after Nash left, he really took a step forward in part because he stopped going out as much. He took better care of his body. He stopped drinking.

Like, these are things that young big men, you got to learn. the hard way, unfortunately. And, you know, from all accounts, I mean, it sounds like Embed's still very much a Shirley Temple drinker. So maybe it's not necessarily the nightlife he has to account for, at least the, you know, the alcohol part of it. But I wonder what it is about, you know, these weird, like unrelated illnesses. Like, he had gastroenteritis earlier in the series. Earlier in the series, he had to get IV treatment and he was apparently throwing up the morning of game 5, but he had told reporters that it was just not related to his earlier spat of illnesses.

So, like, it's so bizarre that we're kind of seeing Embed not at the level he's capable of, but also it's just like, what the hell's going on with his body? Yeah, and I mean, even if he was healthy, like, do we really think Embedd isn't a play at a high level on days with one day off between games while traveling between cities like it's hard the playoffs for this level is hard and you've got to be in great shape yeah and that was the biggest talking point during the net series when he was kind of dealing with the knee stuff still and he was just clearly winded clearly out of shape yeah and and to your point about him kind of having to learn what it takes to become you know the franchise changing center that he is

loted to be. A lot of that is just getting reps. And if he can't stay healthy and if he can't kind of play at 100% all the time, he may never really know what that looks like for himself. Well, I think it's like reps at this level, right? It's like reps against the lead competition. And I mean, I think if you look at like, it doesn't really matter the other players they bring in. Like obviously, you had a good team, but if you're talking about Embedge talking about Simmons, these are young guys, and there's a reason teams with their best players

are second and third year guys don't win championships very often, right? There's a certain, there's certain things you have to learn, certain habits you have to learn to get away. You can't get away with them in the playoffs.

You can't get in the regular season. Ambideon's their whole lives that can just dominate on their physical abilities. Now they're at the stage, their careers where it's like, well, that's not enough anymore. Yeah, it's not enough. Right.

It's not enough to freelance. And I feel like that's a lot of what Embed has done over the past two seasons. It's a lot of him just being like, I am way bigger, way stronger, way more talented than you. And I'm just going to kind of freewheel until I get my way. But yeah, when you go against a Horford, when you go against Marka Saul,

who has been battling giants for his entire life, like, that's just not... I mean, you're not going to bully those guys. It's just not going to happen. Have you watched The Wire? I'm going to go full hipster here. Go for it. I have not.

I've seen four episodes. Nice. You're not hipstering me on this one. So in The Wire, like, one of the main characters, Omar. at one point, like, he's walking to the store and, like, these, like, young kids, like, he robs drug dealers, right? And, like, these young kids, like, he's walking the store, they get so scared of him, they just give him drugs.

And he's like, I don't want this. And then his part is, like, why is like, look, man, if you're going to spend all day sparring with the puppies, you can't run with the wolves at night. And I feel like M.B, like, he's beefing with Asan Whiteside and Andre Drumman. Like, what a waste of his time. Oh, yeah, congrats, bro. You better than those two fools. Like, that doesn't mean anything.

Like, you can stop setting Instagram shots. Andre Drummond. I feel like that's more him kind of like setting up his comedic chops. He's holding the knife in that regard with that. But I mean, he's done the whole, you know, he's posted on Instagram kind of showing

the path that he wants to take through the playoffs. And I think one of them was like, oh, he had a picture of him and Al Horford instead of him and Janus because he thought the Celtics were a more imposing team. And I think that kind of shows like where he's at. Like he wants to beat Boston so much.

And I think he's kind of incorporated that rivalry, that civic rivalry into his mentality going forward. But it's like, it isn't about imposing your will either. I'm just going to beat the Celtics. I'm going to try it so hard. Like, you've got to think the game at a high level too.

Like, it's about like polish. It's about like developing your skills more than like just being bigger and stronger. Right. And then if we're talking about developing your skills, we've got to talk about Ben Simmons. Absolutely.

I mean, he's been like, is he on the court? yesterday. It was hard to tell. I mean, at this point, he's kind of being relegated to, okay, I guess your role on this team is to try to stop Kauai, which is just like, that's not, it's not a real task for a person who is, you know, supposed to be their lead playmaker and supposed to be, you know, their second most important player on the team. Well, they seem to have pushed it more to Jimmy Butler anyway as the playmaking roles. It's like Simmons is now he just kind of hanging out and

to like, he's like hang out near the baseline, like not really doing anything. And it's like, he's kind of being like their version of Draymond Green, I think is the idea. But of course, the thing is like, Draymond Green is a center when it really matters in the playoffs. And to me, that's the big thing hanging over Simmons. Like, I'm doing a piece in this tomorrow. Like, if I look at Ben Simmons, he's 610, 240, he can't shoot. Well, what's the best way to use a player that size that speed with no shooting ability? It's playing it with center.

And this is something that we've all kind of beaten around the bush with, you know, Kevin O'Connor has written multiple times, you know, oh, you need to use him in the screen game. You need to use them as that kind of dream on green presence. But look, if you're playing him as a point guard and you have Embed and you have these other big men on the floor, there's just not enough space. There's not enough room for him to operate as that. It's as creative as you can get, you know, from the tactical side of it. It just doesn't work logistically on the court. Yeah, and yeah, there are so many, like, obvious comparisons to Janus, even though they are at their core different players. But, like, the appeal of using Simmons at the center is the same as Janus. Jason Kidd helped kind of change the perception of Janus by enabling him as a quote-unquote point guard, which kind of opened up the possibilities for what he could develop into. But then Bud kind of realized, you know, he's essentially a playmaking five. And that turned him into the MVP candidate. He is now. Do you think the same thing can happen with Simmons?

Well, yeah, I mean, you go back to that Nets game, right? Nets game three, his playoff career high. Like, you want to guess who wasn't playing in that game? Right? Yeah, exactly. Embeded. I mean, MBE, like, they just get in each other's way. Like, there was a couple plays in the fourth quarter games.

I went back and watched it this morning where Simmons, like, sets a screen, like what KOS is always saying, he sets a screen rolls to the basket, and there's nobody there, right? Because he's not playing with Mbid or Bobon or Greg Monroe or Amir Johnson. And how many stiffs are this team meet at center, by the way, my God. And those guys are gone. He's rolling in the room. There's nobody there either. He's passing an open shooter.

He's getting an open dunk. He's fighting cutters. Like, the game is so much easier for him. And the thing is, like, Simmons needs the game made easier for him. He's not going to, like, go outside a construct and, like, a more limited role. Like, he can't shoot. So there's no point playing him at the four. And I think, as I go back to a second with Embedd, these players, like, they can

dominate on talent against lesser competition. But the beauty. of the playoffs is like you get to a certain point, it's like that isn't enough anymore. You have to be in the right roles or be in the right system. Because if you're not, you're going to get exposed. And like using Simmons is that this Draymond Green off ball guy doesn't work in this system. It just doesn't. Right.

And now we're seeing Ben Simmons essentially play the Andre Robertson role. He's just... But like a bad version of it. Because like at least Robertson probably wouldn't like Kauai scored 45 points a game or something. Right. But like what do you do at this point? Like it feels unfair. to the Sixers to ask them to cater their system around, you know, Ben Simmons when he's not

their best player. And in the playoffs, he hasn't even been their fifth best player. I mean, here's the darkest timeline stuff, right? Because how can you, you can't really trade Simmons to build around Embed, knowing how unhealthy Ambite has been over his career, right? That seems difficult. But you keep Simmons and Embed together. Simmons can't be the best version of himself. And I think Philly can still use him. But if I'm Ben Simmons's age, if I'm working for clutch sports. At a certain point, I'm like, man, my guy's getting killed in the playoffs every year,

his reps getting crushed. Maybe I've got to put him in a fitz his skills. But that can happen with Embed. And then you've got Jimmy Buller and Tobias Harris, too. Like, those guys are free agents? What are they going to do this off season? Do they want to stick around? I don't even know anymore.

Yeah, I don't know. Like, if you're Jimmy Butler, your number one target destination is probably the Lakers, right? I mean, if I'm him and I'm looking at Embed and Simmons and like the holes in their game and then beads health and Simmons lack of shooting. To me, it's just Wiggins and towns all over again at a certain point. And like, I'm old, I'm getting older. I'm trying to win now. Like, then I can live in L.A., play with LeBron. For all of LeBron's flaws, like, LeBron's a proven playoff performer, the West is getting weaker.

Golden State might lose Durant. Jimmy and LeBron in L.A., I'd make more sense to me if I was him. But wait, so the Sixers can offer Jimmy the most money, right? Yeah, they can do that. They can max them out. But are they going to do that and then pay Harris too? Right. Are they going to pay $3 million for this team that's very flawed? That's a thing.

I honestly don't know what Jimmy prioritizes more than anything. Because I could totally see him, you know, signing with the Nets and kind of taking that kind of pick and roll heavy team as his own and kind of becoming the primary option there. I can see him teaming up with LeBron. I can see him staying for like because he's. been the most consistent player in the playoffs for the sixers of the season. I could see a lane in which, you know, M. B. B. misses a lot of time. I can see Simmons maybe being on the trading block and suddenly it's Butler's team and he gets the most money. Talk about darkest timeline.

Right. Now you're, now you're building around 30 year old Jimmy Butler. And then what does Tobias Harris do? Like, he's kind of, he's just such a afterthought in this offense sometimes. Right. And I don't know if he's, he's done himself any favors in the, in the, in his kind of free agency push. He's had maybe like one good shooting game in the past like six games. Yeah, I mean, see, to me, I think he'll still get maxed out because how many six, nine guys can create their own shot and shoot? Right. Like I look at Harris, I say, if he goes to Indiana, he can be like a better version of that young.

He can go to Utah, play off Donovan Mitchell. And then he can give them shot creating from the front court be the second option. Like, I'm looking at this whole team and I'm seeing a bunch of guys who, whose skills aren't being, whose skills aren't being maximized. And it's like, that's a tough sell for young players and even older ones. And like, they got to win. Like, if you're going to be on a team where you're not getting like your best stats, if you're not being your abilities aren't being shown to this fullest,

if you're going to sacrifice, you've got to be sacrificing for something, right? Like, it's he sacrificed for a championship. Sacrifice for a 51 team who's losing the second round every year. That's tough. So do you think Brett Brown's gone? I don't know. Gons had a good piece about that yesterday or the other day about how it's unfair for Brett Brown. I don't know.

I mean, I feel like the problems are bigger than him. I think he's done a good job in the playoffs. I think like some of the stuff he did in this series changing matchups against Toronto, that was pretty wise. Benching McConnell was smart. Benching Bobon was smart. He's making the best of like a fairly limited deck. But if he gets fired, I don't really care. Whatever.

You're just a coach. People worry too much about this kind of stuff, honestly. And honestly, that's kind of his mantra too. It's like it's not the coach who makes the team. It's the players. And so he'll probably, you know, he would be sad for having lost his job. But he would probably agree with you in principle. Yeah, I mean, what is he, like, how much money does he make a year?

He'll be fine. And he'll get, he'll get a job somewhere else. It's just, I don't know what to. I don't know what to do. And then the question also is like, Elton Brand. Is he really in charge? Is Brett Brown in charge in the front office? This whole team, it's just, let's just say,

better win on Thursday. They need to keep this thing going as long as they can because who knows what's going to happen this off season. Yeah, I mean, they made big swings

and they made them seemingly without a great sense of where the six were as a franchise. So I think the audacity is there, whoever's making the decisions in the front office, but if you don't have a strong sense of where your team's actual trajectory is,

things can easily fall apart as we're seeing. Well, it kind of reminds me, it reminds me of Lob City when they traded for Chris Paul. And it was like, yeah, Chris Paul can really help

these young guys along. But at a certain point, it had to have been about D'Andre and Blake Griffin. When those guys weren't ready to win, when their game wasn't totally maximized, they were still stealing on the team, no matter how many vets they brought around them. And it kind of feels like the same thing happened. Like, we're looking at a team that traded for Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris to win possibly one more game in the second round. Right? Right. Like, it always comes back. The playoffs always show who you really are. Like, the limitations are there no matter what is around the stars. Yeah, I think that brings us to Boston, another team that had extremely high hopes at the beginning of the season,

and are now kind of facing a strange transition point where they're like, okay, are we going to lose Kyrie? Man, I'm going to miss his comedy at the very least. I'm not going to shoot 8 for 22 again. I'm going to shoot 7 for 22. Oh, I probably should take more shots. I love it. I love it, man.

Yeah, I feel like with Kyrie, to me, I'm looking at Boston. To me, I actually think it goes back to Gordon Hayward more than Kyrie. Because I think Kyrie is who he is, right? He's a gunner. Like, he gets buckets. But you ask him to be the point guard. You ask him to be the leader. I think the best first of this team was Hayward running point,

Kyrie playing off the ball like he did in Cleveland's. But is that even possible anymore with Hayward where he is. I don't know. I mean, yeah, Hayward's been so bad in this series. But I do wonder if that's kind of something that they might go to in this elimination game. He's basically been useless spotting in the corners. So it might seem kind of counterintuitive that you might reward a guy who's struggling with more playmaking opportunities. But maybe that's something they should do it, right? Yeah. It's not going to be Jaylen or Jason or

Terry Rozier. Yeah, and I definitely trust a lot of those other guys to kind of spot up off the ball. Like, Kyrie's a really good shooter and he can play off ball. It's just right now he feels like the weights on his shoulders. And he's kind of taking over. He's, he's, Kyrie's been, um, kind of shouldering the load a lot more. His isolation numbers are back up, but he's way less efficient on ISOs than he's ever been in the playoffs. This is the worst postseason of his career in terms of shooting percentages. Well, guess who he's not playing with anymore, right?

Right. Yeah. And I think, like, one of the hidden adjustments in the series was after game one, they were putting Pat Conanton on Hayward, and Hayward kind of, like, shoot over him. And then they moved Middleton on him in those second unit minutes when they're playing bench guys. And Middleton's is just bigger than Hayward. At this point, it's probably more athletic.

Just as athletic. And he's really bothered his shot. He's taken out of the series completely. And to me, yeah, if Hayward's going to play a bat, I don't see this series going very much longer. I don't know how you get him better, given what he is physically, though, and mentally. Right.

So, like, I mean, what else is there to say about this Boston team? Like, what exactly would their Anthony Davis offer be at the end of the season? That's what I was wondering. Because not like, if you trade, what is like Horford, Tatum Brown, and Kyrie walks, then you're left with Davis in one year in Hayward. Like, that's not a very good team. I don't even know. I wasn't even thinking Horford was going to be a part of that. I guess he would have to be, right?

Just to mass. I mean, Davis makes like $30 million a year. How are you going to match salaries? You're not going to put Hayward started in that deal. That's for sure. Yeah, I mean, in my head, I was kind of getting excited for like AD and Horford playing off each other. But yeah, when you put it that way, I'm like, why would they do that? that.

Yeah, I mean, Horford's the biggest salary. And the other thing, too, Horford has a player option. So are they going to convince

Horford take his player option and trade them? Like, there's a lot of moving parts here. Maybe they can add Marcus Smart in the salary, which, by the way,

do you say I think with Janus and Marcus Smart after game four? Wasn't that incredible? Yeah. So, Janus is, like,

low-key, actually extremely good at, like, these subtle burns after games. Like, he did the same thing with DeMarteros

and the other, like a few years ago. What did he do? It was something about like how like Damar just wasn't scoring a lot and he's like oh well all of his points came on free throws. It was like a nice like little subtle burn.

It's like a real matter of fact thing to say. Yeah, he's just like yeah. No, he didn't make a difference at all. All he did was hit free throws. It's great. Well yeah, I'm looking at Boston's like payroll. So are you going to pay Marcus Morris? He's probably gone, right?

like he's free age in the summer. Yeah. And then like Jaylen's up for an extension. How much do you pay him? He's probably going to want a max. Roseer's up for an extension. I mean, I think they kept Rosier

because they were worried Kyrie would leave. To me, I could see it next year then just going Rosier, Jalen, Gordon, Jason Horford. That might just be the team. Oh, man. I mean, how would you feel about that? I mean, to me, like,

I would feel okay if Forreford was younger, but we're already seeing Horford kind of take a step back in the record season this year. It's like, I think Horford is the guy that makes it work, and he's getting older. He's going to be 33 in a month. Yeah, he's an undersized center who's put a lot of miles on his body. So I don't know how much more of a weight he can carry.

And so then they just become like a young team, right? They just become how fast can Tatum grow, how fast can Brown grow, how fast can Roger grow? Like, darkest timeline, man. It was game one. It was, what, two weeks ago when they crushed the bucks and it was like, man, this team is. Playoff did. And even then, it was like the narrative. was almost like, oh, the Bucks aren't ready for this because they've never seen it before.

And then, you know, three games later, they've seen all of it. And now Yannis is just back to being a dominant player. So it's like, you know, like last year it was all about how the Celtics were able to adjust on the fly. And now the Bucks look like they're masters of switching. And suddenly they've just kind of solved everything that the Celtics could throw at them. I think there's still some moves for Boston to make. If I were there, I'd probably stop playing Aaron Baines. I don't see what value has in the series anymore.

Maybe try to go in when smaller play Shemmy. Play Daniel Thice has been okay. But to me, like, if they're going to win the series, Hayward's got to play better. It really is about Hayward. Like, can he get back? It's tough. Like, can he get back to where he was before he got hurt? Because he was awesome before he got hurt.

And it's for two years now where he's just two lost seasons, basically. And he has one game left to prove himself, at least this season. Yeah. And then he's got, he's getting paid 32.7 million. to score like two points a game. That's tough. Wild. Wild.

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Janice Adentacumbo is the only player to ever get a signature slipper deal. Hulu is paying Janus a lot of money to wear fluffy green. Hulu has live sports slippers. I wish I had a pair of slippers for when I'm watching the playoffs live on Hulu. They also got Joel to change his nickname from the process to Joel Hulu has live sports indeed. And Damien Lillard got a tattoo that says Hulu Live Sports. It's the most blatant form of advertising I've ever seen. Clearly, they really want you to know that Hulu has live sports.

And that you can watch live sports and news, your favorite teams, and the biggest games on 60 plus top channels, just for $45 a month. That's right. Follow your teams all season. No cable required. Live TV plan required. Restrictions apply. Learn more on Hulu.com. All right. Yeah, I think given the state of each series on the West side of things, I think we could hit both of the Western Conference series as well. On Tuesday night, the Nuggets completely pummeled the Blazers at home in Denver, 124.98. The big story coming out of that game was Paul Millsap. After a pretty tepid series against the Spurs, Mills. has been absolutely beasting the Blazers. He's dominating, man. He's pretty much scoring it well. Yeah, and I think a lot of it is just like he means so much to that defense that like is basically honed by a bunch of dudes who are, you know, younger than 26.

They're all, they're all born after the 90s. Milsap is the only player born in the 80s on that team. It's, it's really wild. He's been a real like strong, stable. force for them. I think for the most part, it's because Millsap has been on Aminu, has been on guys who haven't really, who don't really possess a lot of, you know, playmaking prowess on their own. So he's been able to kind of

quarterback from the back line and it's made a huge difference. I mean, that's me, when the story for Denver is like they're really exposing, which I mean, we knew it's going to happen eventually, but Aminu and Harkless, they're just not guarding those guys and they're playing off them. It's letting them hide Yokic. Yeah, and Milsaf's kind of the middle quarterbacking the whole team. you look at like, I feel like I look at these two teams,

and I look at one team who spent their money on Paul Millsap, when they had free agency space, and one spent their money in Evan Turner. And it's like one move like that is such an impact. Like when you're paying $30 million to a veteran, you've got to have the right veteran. And of course, like, it isn't really fair to Portland because I don't think Millsap was free that summer, right?

No. There's so much luck that goes into it, so much chance that goes in the team building. But it's made all the difference in the world. Yeah. the other thing too I remember I did a big story on Yokic at training camp I remember talking to Milsap about it

and just like him talking about how he recognized that Yokic was so talented how he encouraged Yokic to take a step forward to control of the team how I took a step back and started focusing on defense to compliment this young star and this is right when the whole like Jimmy Barth thing happened in Minnesota

and I was like man this is what like a great veteran does right like I have the ability to change my game to encourage these younger players to empower them. I feel like, Millsap, to me, like,

what he's done on and off the court has just been really, it's been really cool to see a guy like recognize his limitations and kind of make his team better because he could have easily pulled a Jimmy Butler if he wanted to and been like,

I'm Paul Millsap, I'm making $3 million a year. This is my team. Compliment me. And like, you're seeing what he can do when he gets a ball in his hands. He can do a lot of things.

But he's, like, chosen to take a step back. And now when it's time, he can pop in. And now he might go, a conference final. Jimmy's out here, you know, fighting with players all the time. I mean, it's really amazing that, like, him

and Al Horford are just kind of cut from the same cloth. They shared the front court for so many years in Atlanta. It's just like, I can't believe those two players coexisted at the same time. And I can't believe the Hawks couldn't do much with that. I mean, they stopped running

into LeBron, right? That was always their thing. That was a fun team. It was like a hipsters paradise team, man. And then they made Jeff Teague a lot of money. they made Kyle Corver a lot of money I mean they made Damari Carroll a lot of money look back on it now like Teague Carol and Corver

are such limited players but in Atlanta play with Millsap and Horford they look freaking awesome that one year they're All-Stars I mean was Demari Carol an All-Star did that happen? No, wait, no they only had four

but he got like a Mac he got like $60 million off that you know for being a nice 3-&D wing yeah I mean back then it was just like when he was playing on the Hawks it was like he was the prototypical 3-and-D guy. And so I think he hit the market at like 2016.

So that was around the gold rush too. Yeah, I mean, he got a, those two guys are just great. I mean, they're great teammates. I think if you're Portland, what do you do going forward to get back in the series to like, now it's game six at home, fighting game? I mean, I would love to see more of putting Portland's three best shooters on the court for longer stretches of time.

Like Lillard, McCollum, and Curry, it's a small sample size. I think they've only played 20 minutes together, but they have a net rating of 11.8, which is certainly better than most of their net ratings across three-man lineups. It's definitely worth a shot. Yeah, they've really been confessed

in the floor of the Nuggets defense. So Harcust in the series, minus 13.1, Alpha Rook minus 10.7. Like, when those guys run the floor, they're not being guarded. And they're not guarding Millsap either. So to me, what's their value in this series? I'm not really sure.

Like, their offense is getting them killed and they're not guarding anyone. So to me, the obvious adjustment is to go smaller. Seth Curry Moore, Zach Collins, he's been playing well. At least he shoots it. And then Rodney Hood, there's been a guy who's like made himself some money this off season. Talk about our resurrection. He won that game three.

Absolutely. Well, I feel like he won that game three because he was the only guy with fresh legs. That's true, but his coached trusts in the play in the overtime, whereas Denver guys didn't go to their bench and all. Yeah, that was a big, that was a big thing for me. I was just like, why is Monté Morris not in this game? It went four overtimes. There's no reason why you can't play one of the most stable backup point guards in the league more minutes.

To be fair, I always think that. But yeah, Morris should have been playing. And Hood, I think if you start Hood, that allows you to attack Jamal Murray. Because they've been hiding Murray on one of them, I mean to and Harklist usually. And then, like, if you're playing Dame, C.J. Hood, now you've got a guy who can attack Murray. And like, you saw what Murray did Derek White in the last round. Like, attacking Murray is easy buckets if you got the ability.

Right. Yeah. And the Nuggets just don't have anyone with the size to match up with him. Rodney Hood is basically bigger than Mo Harkless, who, Mo Harkless is basically a combo forward at this point. But Hood also has the skills of a shooting guard, all the skills of a shooting guard. And so he's just a matchup nightmare for this Nuggets team that are specifically built with no one taller than 6-4 or 6-5.

Yeah, like that's why everyone's always been, like, waiting on Hood. Like, he's been, he's had some really bad moments in his career. I mean, he couldn't even play last year in Cleveland, wouldn't go off the bench, blah, blah, blah, given up by member teams, but the skills were always there. Like, Rodden Hood is 6'8, he can shoot 3s, he can dribble. Players like that, they have way of becoming valuable, even when you don't think.

Even, like, the skills were always there with him. And I think to me, he's probably the guy that has to have a bigger role. if Poros would win this series. So I think this lineup suggestion you're basically intimating right now is something that you brought up maybe last week or two weeks ago. So you got Dame, you got CJ,

you got Curry, you have Hood, and you have Collins. Forget it. Just give up on defense. Because you're not guarding them anyways. Let's try to score 150 points. Like, think about if you got Yokic, I can garden those guys. Like you've got five three point shooters, four of them can dribble.

Like, what is he going to do out there on the three point line? Like, nothing. You know, speaking of Charks' fantasies, I think it's time to move on to the crown jewel of these playoffs. Maybe for the rest of the playoffs. Rockets Warriors, this is your dream series, man. Game four, I couldn't even go to sleep after game four. It was so intense.

Like, that game was like freaking basketball on speed, man. Like, what was it, the Rockets? The Warriors came back from like 15 points like in three minutes. Yep. It was like a big 12 football game. It was like, we're going to play 94 feet, five out. It was, man, this is some crazy basketball, man. I've really been enjoying the series.

Yeah, and you made a comment in NBA Slack the other day that you kind of saw this as the future of competitive playoff basketball. You know, players who can't hang will get run off the floor in a couple of possessions, and only the players who can run up and down, space the floor, and make plays off the dribble will survive. Well, I think the one addendum to that is like, if you can't play defense, you better score a lot of points. So I look at like Steph Curry, like he's being kind of attacked on D, but his offense is

good enough to where it makes up for it. But like, if you're getting attacked on the, you better score a lot of points to make up for it. I mean, because you look at like the Warriors in the series, they're only getting stuff for, they're only getting five guys, basically a lineup of death. Like, Looney is killing them. Livingston's killing them. McKinney's killing them.

Like they've got no depth at all to speak of right now. And it's like, the level of play is so high for everyone on both. sides of the floor. Capela's barely playing at this point. Yeah. He only logged about 20 minutes in the last game. Yeah, this is like an $85 million center, but if you can't dribble, pass, and shoot, I think the way the game is played now, the way this Houston Golden State series is, you've got to be a skilled player. If you're not skilled, who cares? And it's almost like, it's like soccer almost where they're playing right now. It's like the ball is constantly moving. The ball spread as far as it can. And like, wherever the weak link is, the ball

finds it. And it's attack the weak link, get threes. I think the craziest thing for me is how Houston's been playing defense without anyone, but all like six, five guys. Yeah, that's one thing that I've noticed watching a lot of like of the plays that end up with field goal attempts by Kevin Durant. He tends to, I don't know if it's underselling the defense, but it's like when he has a smaller defender on him, he tends to kind of slack off. He tends to like settle for a lot of more difficult shots than he might normally. And look, he's so good that he's going to be making most of those shots anyway. But, like, that's kind of where you can slot, you know, Austin Rivers or, like, James Harden

on him, where they can kind of go underneath him and kind of force him to take these, like, mid-range jump shots. Yeah, it kind of reminds me of, like, Dirk against the, remember that we believe Warriors? Yeah. It was, like, the same kind of thing because, like, normally you're this big guy used to attacking slower guys off the dribble. but now they've got these smaller guys getting in on his dribble

and kind of like pushing him out of his preferred spots on the floor and Durant still makes his shots but it doesn't feel like he's making anyone else better I mean really you're seeing Golden State when Steph Clay's playing bad Steph slowing down it's like sometimes I feel like it's Durant playing by himself out there

it's crazy yeah I mean it's very Kauai which is funny because we've been talking about how Katie and Kauai are you know one and two in terms of the postseason you know best players or whatever. But yeah, it kind of feels like that.

Yeah, they're really just sitting like, Houston's really imposing their will physically. Like Eric Gordon. Eric Gordon has been incredible. I was saying, I think he's probably

him the third best player in the series. Like the Hall of Famer was, anyway, Eric Gordon's been awesome. Absolutely. And also, like, shout out to Austin Rivers, who's really,

really making a name for himself. His minutes have climbed throughout the series. He was at 33 minutes in game five. or game four, sorry, game four. I mean, I can see a situation in which he should probably be playing more minutes than Chris Paul. I love it.

I mean, that is a fantastic take. It's mostly just for preservation of Chris Paul. Like, if you can, if you can skate by, then why not play Austin Rivers 36 to 38 minutes? Because I think the one thing Rivers does, he's more of an attacker. Like, he's not feeling the game trying to run a system. Rivers on the floor, it's like Gordon. They're attacking, attacking, attacking. They're like getting into their spots or dribbling.

Look, here's the numbers. So in this series, when Rivers is on the floor, Houston's plus 11.7, 85 minutes. When Rivers is off the floor, they're minus eight in 112 minutes. Like, that's Austin Rivers is swigging the series right now. It's insane. Yeah. And I feel like one thing that, I mean, has really helped to the rocket to get back into this series.

And it's pretty much been the same key against the Warriors since 2015. Look, if you can dominate the glass, you have a chance against Warriors. You have to be able to extend your possessions, and you have to be able to limit theirs. Man, Peter Tucker is bodying fools down there. He's just incredible. And, like, that's one, that's the one thing that Capella has been able to, like, at least make himself useful with. Like, the past two games, he's been able to get out and get those offensive rebounds

and extend those possessions. he can't do anything on defense. He can't do anything on offense. But at least he's extending these possessions and giving the playmakers on the Rockets a chance. I feel like this game has become, like this series has become pretty simplistic almost. It's like it's such a spread out series.

It's just all about me versus a guy across from me. I look at the numbers like it's Hardin v. Durant. It's Steph and Clay versus Paul and Gordon. And then it's Tucker versus Raymond. And to me like, whoever wins those matchups wins the series. And that's why I still have faith in gold state. Like, I can't believe, I can't believe Steph and Clay will be this bad at home.

I just, I can't believe it. I've seen them play too well too often. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, it was actually kind of shocking that it happened again in game four, to be honest. Yeah, and you look at it for as much as, it's a series so, like, close. Like, if Austin Rivers plays game one, what happens for Houston? And Golden State had shots in games three and four to win those games, right?

Over time, game three, they had two open threes in game four. All of a sudden, they're out three, one, going back to game five in Golden State. The series might already be over. Yeah, I feel like a lot more has gone wrong for the Warriors than have gotten right for the Rockets almost. It's weird to say because the series is so knotted up. Like the Warriors literally only have one point on the Rockets the entire series. But I just feel like there's a lot more that can go right. right for the Warriors. Well, I mean, the big thing is like if somebody gets hurt again, because they have

no depth right now. Right. I mean, like, I don't trust any of their reserves. They've kind of, the rocket's kind of figured out Kavana Looney. Like his whole, I kind of switch and stay on the ground and don't jump on pump fakes. I'm not very fast. It worked for an extent, now hard and just head hunting whatever to the floor. It's like, I'm going to score well at this guy. And then Livingston's pretty much cooked, it seems. McKinney seems not ready for the moment. And then it's like, what's left? You have... Your repco?

Maybe. I was saying maybe Quinn Cook. I don't know. Like, can they get minutes from some bench player? Like, imagine if they had Austin Rivers. This is what it's come to. Like, could they have signed Rivers instead of, like, right?

They could have picked him up, right? Yeah. I don't know how that would have worked. Yeah, I mean, Rivers was basically free off waivers, right? Yeah, yeah. When he got traded to the Sun, sons let him go. And now...

I mean, you're seeing the value of guys like that in these kind of series. If you can bring a guard off the, especially too, like Golden State's offense is pretty much disintegrated, like all their motion, pretty, ball movement stuff. Now it's like, you know, there's floor spread who gets his own shot, who can dribble, who can score. And they just don't have a lot of guys who can do that. I like to see Drayman be more aggressive at the end of game before. That was good. Because he has to score some points. He can't be getting like six points a game right now because they have so few sources of offense.

Yeah, and I'm curious to see just how far. Dan Tony can push this like five smalls lineup where literally no one's tall in 6-6 is in the game. I want to see just how far how many minutes he can tack on with that, how many minutes he can limit Neneid, limit Capella. Because really, when you have those five guys on the court, that's when the Warriors truly like see a team that's up to the task of defeating them. Yeah, and you look at like, compare it to Portland. When you're playing your tuck wagon lineups, you can't leave anyone open. There is no Harklist.

There's no aminu. Like, if you leave Tucker open in the corner, that's a three every time. You can't leave Gordon open. You can't leave Paul open. Obviously, can't leave Hardin open. You can't leave Rivers open. Like, that's really the thing. Like, if you can't leave anyone open, man, it's hard to play defense.

Defense is all about playing off guys. There's no one to play off when Houston goes small. And I wonder for me, I look at the series like, I compare Houston last year. and they had bigger, more a versatile wings, like Arisa, Mabah Mutei. He didn't play much in the series. But those guys were very limited in offense.

And they seem to done well going to smaller, more versatile players and just saying whatever about length, rather have guys you can score. That's been interesting to watch in the series. Yeah. I mean, I'm pouring one out for my guy Daniel House. Yeah.

We've been touting him as a difference maker, the entire way through. I predicted that he would swing a game in this series in our dethroning the Warriors video series. I mean, he might have swing a game the wrong way in game one or two. And so I don't know where I'm ever going to be putting this out in public any time soon. So I might as well just drop it here. This is public. Let's go with it.

I have a conspiracy here. I think the Rockets are just so confident in this series that they're like, you know, Daniel House is probably going to make a lot of money this season or next season if we keep him in this series, if we keep him, you know, a part of our rotation. Let's kind of drop him out and kind of keep his price down a little bit. This is a kind of take I can get behinds. I'm just so behind Daniel House's skill set that I'm like, this has to be it. There's no reason why.

Danny, when reality goes against your takes, Justin's Ben's conspiracy theories. If there's anything I learned from the last two years, just in the world, is that? Double down. Triple down. Your takes are always right. Never let the facts interfere with a good take.

I'm going to talk to you about Turro, which is a peer-to-peer car sharing marketplace, where you can book any car you want, wherever you want, from a community of local host. Plug it in. You look for the kind of car you want, and then they'll always have a whole list of cars, different price points, different types of cars.

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if your expense account on your business, only so much money when you're trips, Turro is the way to go, man. And you can get like all kinds of cars. You can go from like a Tesla or a Porsche. If you're like a blogger like me, probably you're driving a Toyota or a Kia. or an Audi or something.

But download the Turro app that's T-U-R-O on the App Store or Google Play or visit Turo.com. Get 25 bucks off your first trip when you sign up for Turro and use promo code Ringer 25 at checkout. Terms apply. As has been the case since the playoffs began, we'll cap off this episode of the Corner 3 with some draft talk. It's been a fairly compelling second round. And there's been a lot of trends to glean from.

we've seen a lot of high-level basketball, and it kind of translates to something that we should be looking at in the 2019 class. Charks, what's something that stands out to you? Just to me, the biggest thing that jumped out to me watching these series. Like, I keep, when I see Rodney Hood,

I'm just seeing Cam Reddish. Like, I feel like those guys, they're not quite the same player, but their overall skill sets. To me, it's just like, I can see the exact same thing. You look at Reddish, he's 6'9, got a beautiful looking stroke.

he can guard three or four positions and then like he just disappears for games at a time where he just absolutely nothing at Duke and you're like what does this guy even doing he's blowing layups he's not paying attention he's missing open shots and it's like what does he even do and I look at him and I'm looking at Hood

I can see the same career happening where like you look at Hood this is third team now and giving up twice but those skills are so rare they're still valuable I'm thinking reddish to me for as vast played this year, I'm starting to believe in him again just because he's a six-foot-nine

who shoots trees and guards' street positions. Right. And the thing about Rodney Hood is there was a point in time in which Rodney Hood, who was killing it for the jazz for a while, was considered arguably the best player in the 2014 draft. This was, you know, obviously before Yokic really got a chance to show out, but there was always kind of that level of talent, that baseline level of talent. he was always a guy who was comfortable creating his own shot, who could shoot off the dribble. The talent was always there, but we're also talking about Hood

in a very kind of loose reserve role. And it can be kind of hard to extract a player's value from the value of the draft pick itself. So, like, where do you see a Rodney Hood type player, this type of Rodney Hood type player landing in a draft? Yeah, and the thing with Hood, he averaged three points a game against. the Thunder, right?

Like, he had good, he has good games and he has terrible games. I don't know. Like, I'm looking at this draft and after Zion and Jha, and a couple other guys. Like, no one's that good. So why not gamble a guy you know has talent? Like, in five years, if you get fired for, like,

drafting a guy, at least you can look at HUD, British people. He has talent. But you can justify that. Like, look at his skills. Right? Like, no one's to look at you like you're crazy. Do you remember the whole thing with Dave Yerger

in Hood when he was in Memphis. Yeah, absolutely. He would like constantly make fun of Jordan Adams. Jordan Adams, yeah. And he was like, this guy is fat and he doesn't move and he's hurt all the time. And you drafted him over Rodney Hood? Are you kidding me? And that's probably why Yeager is out of a job right now, because he's consistently done that

for about three or four years. It's true. But I think the idea of like, at least a guy has talent, at least you can look at that and you can justify. To me, I look at Cam Reddish. Like, if he gets to Atlanta, if you can play him off Trey Young and John Collins with herder on their wings, I could see him being, I'd be a great fit for him. Yeah.

I mean, the big thing with Cam was just like, when you watched him in college, there was just very little to go. There was very little that correlated with the kind of idea of him that we all had entering the season. He finished with one of the worst, you know, percentages around the rim that I've ever seen from a prospect. Cram had the numbers. He said Reddish was the worst effective fuel shooter since Malacarter Williams

among like lottery prospects. Incredible. That's just incredible company to keep. But also it's like, you know, once the combine comes around, I don't know how much all of that's going to matter. You're right. He just looks the part and he has all the requisite skills, at least in theory. I mean, he's got the free third percentage.

steal rate, three point percentage. Like, those are the skills that translate, right? Size, shooting ability, defense. I think with him, it'll be all about role. Actually, I think with pretty much every player, I'm like, man, if he goes to Atlanta, that's probably a good spot for him. If he goes to, like, Cleveland playing with Sexton and then this might be tough. Yeah, and we've talked a lot about Austin Rivers in this podcast, how much he has kind

have changed the trajectory of the rockets, just by being a guy who can play defense, can create his own shot, can attack, is relentless attacking. It's kind of the revenge of the combo guards in 2019. They've come back in a big way. It isn't just rivers. Like, you go get that Buck Celtic series. Kind of the untold story is George Hill. He has been incredible. So look at these numbers. So in this Celtic series, George Hill is plus 15.9, 105 minutes on the floor. When George Hill's off the floor, they're minus 11 and 87 minutes. That's a 25 point net rating swing.

Right. Yeah. That's insane. And like Hill's, like Bledsoe's had some moments where he looked like Bledsoe of last year. And it doesn't even matter for Milwaukee. They plugged Hill into that role. He can shoot threes. He's a really smart player.

He spreads the floor. He makes the right decisions. And like, he's kind of reprimed. place Bledsoe and Brogden at times. And he's really, it's so crazy that George Hill at this stage of his career swung a playoff series. Yeah, I think it's a lot of the fact that he's

a really smart player who knows exactly what he needs to do on a team. It's been the case ever since his days in San Antonio, where he was kind of groomed as that, you know, score off the bench, went to Indiana, became a kind of caretaker point guard, and that's never really left his system.

He just knows exactly what he needs to do to accomplish whatever the team needs him. for. I mean, he won for Cleveland. He was starting the NBA finals last season. They don't make the finals of George Hill. No way about it. So, like, if you're looking at this crop of prospects in the

2019 draft, is there any player that kind of fits this mold? That's a good question. The guy I could come back to is our guy, Alexander Walker. Like, as I break down the games of a lot of these, like, comboish guards,

out in the kill Alexander Walker, he's the cousin. a shake goes Alexander. He's 6-6-200 pounds. He's very long. He can really shoot it. He can play on or off the ball. He average forces the game this year at Virginia Tech. And like he's a guy who can he'll stay on the floor on defense. He can really shoot it. He can make smart decisions. And I'm breaking down his game like how many guards in this draft are as well-rounded as Nick Alexander Walker? Yeah, I he's one of my favorites. And I think he's definitely a guy I would consider in the lottery just because of that specific skill set. He can shoot threes. And not only

that, but he's kind of started off his freshman year as a specialist. He was just mainly just shooting threes. Second year, he became a much bigger part of their offense without losing any of his efficiency. He actually got more efficient in a bigger role. And he won't have a huge role in the NBA in terms of being a star or whatever. But like, there is always, you know, room for a Brogden-ish guy who can be a secondary playmaker and who can hit open threes. And the other thing, too, there's a baseline for athletic ability

that Alexander Walker has. I feel like they're games. It's kind of like Ty Jerome for Virginia, but there's a certain baseline. Tide Jerome's going to get killed on defense. I think NAAW does just enough to stay on the floor. And then I compare him

to some of the other, the freshman guards, and I feel like his feel for the game is so much higher. Even the guy like Kobe White or Romeo Langford or Kevin Porter, they're all guys who kind of hunt shots but can't play with in the system

and to me, N-A-W is a guy, you plug him in right away. He just knows how to play and he doesn't have any real defined holes in his game. I could see that being valuable in the right team. Very valuable. And this is kind of where a guy like Taylor and Horton-Tucker, another hyphenate name

becomes kind of like a very interesting player. A guy who can maybe define what this draft ends up meaning because he has potential to be a shot creator at the wing. But he also has the build and the wing span to be like this PJ Tucker Eric Gordon type player

on D who can kind of switch on to bigger guys and hold his own. He has a thick frame and he's only 18. He's one of the youngest players in this draft. It could be very interesting down the line. I mean, talk about Steve Kerr's quote about we've got volleyball players versus football players in Houston.

THT is like as football as it gets, man. I wonder what he actually weighs. And I was watching him like, my warrior THT, it's like with M.B. Kind of, not that there's same kind of player, but that diet, like that man has got to be careful of what he eats. If he's 240 at 18 and he's not like in great shape, like I could see him eating out of the league.

He can put on 20 pounds easily probably if he's not careful. But see how big his frame is, how wide he is. Yeah, he has that kind of, I mean, when I watch him, he's like a 6-4, like Clarence. weather spoon. You know, like, he's got athletic ability, but it's just like, wow, man, like, he has, like, a true bowling ball frame. It's truly hidden. Like, you know, like, athlete, like, if he would just cut some weight, like, that's to me, I feel like Horton Tucker, he has a huge range of outcomes where if he could just, like, stay in shape. Because I could totally see him, like, hit in the NBA. And he has a lot of confidence, too. And his coach is like, I'm going to let this fat kid just shoot like 20 times a game and take terrible. I don't think so. Like, what is going on here? Yeah, that's kind of the thing. By the time he figures it out, if he figures it out,

the team that makes that initial investment might not be the team that actually is able to prosper from the kind of skill set that he projects to have. I mean, right, you get Rivers and Hill, they bounced from the league a few times. Yeah, and so one of the things that, look, this is probably beating a dead horse,

but one of the things that stands out to me is just, look, if Capella couldn't make any kind of inroads in getting better, against the Warriors this season. We've seen it with Rudy Gobert. We've seen it with Stephen Adams. Maybe don't draft an inexperienced rim runner with the lottery pick.

You know? Like what really is the upside there? Like Jackson Hayes has gotten considerable hype as a lottery player, but he's really raw and he's going to get burned by these types of teams in the future. Why not wait?

Why not wait until the second round to draft a guy who has comparable talent. And you know, you can spend that early pick on something much more valuable. That is the question I always come back to, like, in the playoffs. And it's like with a draft, I mean, in the playoffs. It's like there's some, what's Draymond Green said. He's like, there's 82 game players and there's 16 game players. And how much do you value that if you're a lottery team?

Right. Because like, theoretically, Orlando's been drafting 16. game players for years, but the day we didn't get the playoffs anyway, so what's the difference, right? And like there's some guys who have more value in the regular season they would in these high leverage situations. But do you have to get that

situation first before you can even worry about that? I don't know. But yeah, like, at a certain point, like, when do teams stop paying you know, 25-nil for a guy like Stephen Adams? I think that's over. It's my guess. That would be my suspicion

is that that is officially done. officially done. Because to me, like, yeah, like centers are platoon players now. Unless you have a Yokic or a towns or a Davis or an Mb, someone who's a legitimate offensive superstar, to me, like, then at that point you're mixing and matching. You've got your rim running center, your floor spacing center, your playmaking center, your big bodied center. You just have different kind of guys you're plugging in our lineups to make most sense. So I'm with you on that. Like, I don't think you'll see it starting the top 10 this year. I'd be my guess. When they all and all kind of plays out.

To bring it back to one of KOC's boys, Goga, Batazzi, do you think he has potential in that regard? See, I like Goga a lot, but that's the kind of guy I wonder about, like to me, I wonder, Goga, is he going to be more the platoon guy in the playoffs?

I could see him being a 35-minute-night guy in the regular season, but where does he really fit in a playoff series against a spread team? And is he going to be, the thing with all these, all centers, like, can you attack those points the other way? Like, because you're going to give up points against these spread team.

It's just a reality. But if you're not making up for those points on offense, then you're getting playing off the floor. And Goga's good, but can go have the offense run through him? He's very young. Maybe. He's got a lot of skills. I would say, of all the centers, Goga's probably the guy who has the best chance.

But then it's like, why not just play PJ Washington at center? or DeAndre Hunter at Center at that point. I think that's a perfect way to end this podcast. It always goes back to that. On the purest possible chart statement you could possibly get, about two like obscure, well not really obscure, but two draft prospects who probably will not be playing center anytime soon. Yeah, I think that's probably a good time they're going to add.

Yeah, that's all the time we have for this one. Thanks for listening. Shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing. And shout out to Kevin O'Connor and the O'Connor fan. family again you're in our hearts and minds absolutely