The Ringer NBA Show - The Suns’ Flawed Approach, Kawhi Leonard’s Career Crossroads, and Where Do the Bucks Go from Here?

Episode Date: April 27, 2024

Immediately following the Timberwolves’ win over the Phoenix Suns, The Ringer’s Justin Verrier and Seerat Sohi went live on the Ringer NBA YouTube channel to react to tonight’s slate of playoff games (00:40). They begin by discussing Phoenix’s flaws and how much of their playoff struggles are to blame on Kevin Durant. Then, they give Anthony Edwards and the T-Wolves the love they deserve before moving onto Dallas’ win over the Clippers (25:12), which prompts Justin to claim that Kawhi Leonard is a “zombie.” And just how far exactly can the Mavericks take this thing? Plus, following Tyrese Haliburton's heroics that pushed the Pacers back the Bucks, Justin and Seerat wonder what the future holds in store for Milwaukee (41:30). For all the latest NBA playoffs reaction podcasts, make sure to follow ’The Ringer NBA Show’ on our Spotify feed. Hosts: Justin Verrier and Seerat Sohi Producer: Troy Farkas Additional Production Support: Benjamin Cruz, Chris Wohlers, and Jack Wilson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have news shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackauer to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us on the show.

press box. Hello and welcome the Clipper blog live. Just kidding. It's the Ringer MBA show. I am Justin Barrier. That's Siritt. So he, what's up, Siritt? Oh my God, you took me back. Wow, I'm good. How you doing? No spreecast this time around. Okay, we've moved up to YouTube. I don't know if I'm old enough or I'm too old to be a YouTuber, but you have the youthful energy here. I feel like this is a natural fit for you. Yeah, but we're still, we're still just having these clipper seasons that have these bursts of total just like oh this is a season we're going to break the curse and they end well they haven't ended yet but they they come close to ending like this so something's changed something's just say the same that's true so as we're recording this 1030 p.m.

Friday night I have my Twitter feed up and it's just a rotating jiff of Anthony Edwards giving the degeneration crotch chop and I feel like that really sets the tone for the evening. We're coming off a game in which the wolves absolutely decimated the suns for the third time. It was a Nuggets-esque, I would say, a performance from the wolves. Where do you want to start with this one? I think I'm just still trying to catch my breath from what an absolute domination this was. I'm wrapping my head around the fourth quarter. And as I was watching it, I started thinking about the fact that it was basically just a metaphor for the sun's philosophy of team building.

Like let's fuck preparation, fuck defense, fuck rebounding, fuck depth, we'll just hit a bunch of shots and make up for the rest of it. And it hasn't worked. And I think that we could have told you it wasn't going to work.

I think it's not even, it's not really a hot take to say basically as soon as this team was built for the suns that we kind of just knew like this isn't it. They just don't have any of the component parts that you need to win in 2024. It was incredible.

It was incredibly obvious from the get-go. You can't just, like, put a bunch of stars together and have them shoot a bunch of mid-range jumpers. Frank Vogel was begging them to take more threes. They finally did in the fourth quarter. But this whole game was like, just, let's just shoot over all of our problems. That was the whole season. I think they went 33 minutes the Sons did without a three-pointer.

I think between the second quarter and the third quarter, they were 0 for 7 from the 3. And not only did they not making any, that the fact that they shot only 7 in a game-owner's, they were constantly trying to catch up is mind-boggling. I was actually in a different camp than you. I actually thought that there was so much talent on this team that they would find a way to work because this is how the past decade in the NBA was written, right? We just aggregate three superstars and there's at least enough firepower to overwhelm most teams. I don't know if they

would have been in the Nuggets category. I thought they would be in the mix at the very least. Unfortunately, this game and playing against the wolves has laid bare that not only are they susceptible to size, a team like the wolves who are just bigger than a lot of teams, but they don't have the mathematical advantage to actually overwhelm them and overcome that size. It's like when you go small, when the Warriors went small, they did so in order to add other things to the team, most specifically more shooting, even if it was even Harrison Barnes at that point shooting from a corner of three, right? But the Suns just added what they already had in a Booker in the mid-range. And I can't believe at the very least, they

didn't, they're not even trying, it seems like, to do anything different to actually make it all work. I think that that's the thing that jumped out to me. It's just like, there's a lack of effort and really bad vibes in addition to all this other stuff we're talking about. And the Warriors also, they went small with Dremont freaking green. It's just a little bit different when you do that, right? When it's Eubanks? Yeah, it's a little different. I actually, I, I, I, I saw, you banks kind of tricked me early in the season because I ruled my eyes into thinking that he was a significantly better defender than Nurkich just because he's a significantly worse offensive player. So in my mind, I was like, well, that has to be the only reason they play him, right?

Like, you got to, it's like an either or situation. But the guy just, no, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not good. But I do think that I'd actually argue that the past decade of basketball is actually more proof, especially when you look at the son's history and Kevin Durant's history as to why you shouldn't be trying to build teams like this. Forget the superstar aspect of it. Because if you get the right superstars together, you can basically do anything you want. Like the LeBron Big Three worked because you have

LeBron, Chris Bosch, and Dwayne Wade, who on top of being Hall of Fame players, they also are variable and they're physical, and they know how to, they knew how to play a lot of different positions. You could go small with them, and it would still be LeBron, James, essentially playing the five

while Chris Bosch would be roaming or vice versa. These guys can't do that. And while I was watching this game, I was like, this whole beatdown is stylistically like a cousin of the nets getting swept by the Celtics. It's the same series. You have this incredibly physical wolves team that can play any style of defense. If the scorers start getting off on one guy, they can just go to the next guy. And frankly, that wasn't even that necessary in this series. like Jaden and McDaniels basically just put Devin Booker in a cage for the entire series.

I feel like the only reason he even started getting off today a little bit was because McDaniels got himself into foul trouble, had to be a little less aggressive and also had some time where he wasn't in the game as well. So yeah, I don't know. Like it just, and from the sun side of it, you have the time, the loss of the bucks similar fashion. They were shooting all of these contested twos. The bucks are shooting threes. They're also rebounding the crowsynolds. out of the ball. They're, you know, smothering you in transition. They're way bigger. They are, you know,

it's, it's just terrifying playing them. And, you know, and they lost, they lost last year shooting a bunch of contested twos as well. And I heard, uh, I'll stop in a second year foot. I heard Richard Jefferson talking about, okay, well, sometimes, you know, it takes year two to make it work. This is year two. They had year one and they decided after everything they saw, they were like, let's get Chris Paul out of here. Let's bring in Brad Beal. Let's do the most redundant possible thing. Let's not look at any of the reasons that we actually lost. That's not maybe if you wanted to trade Chris Paul and I'm sure we'll talk about Sun's deals at some point here. If you wanted to trade the guy, that's fine. Trade him for a bunch of like two or three guys that can actually do

something for you in the playoffs on the margins. Yeah, I was one of the suckers who thought Beal would at the very least be an upgrade over what Paul had given them last season. Because it seemed like Paul was cooked. And as we saw this season, at the very least, he's diminished to the point where you want to play him off the bench, you want to play him sparingly. You want to actually have him rearing young guys, maybe not being a core five member of a team that's based on a top heavy roster. It's just like the fact that he, Beale hasn't slid into a pass for his point guard role or

even like a spot up shooter role like he had, potentially playing off of John Wall back in the olden days, I thought he could have just downshifted, taken off of his plate that really he wasn't suited for in D.C. And maybe he could have found some third win to his career when he realized, well, I'm not the guy, but I could be a guy playing off the guys. But unfortunately, like, it doesn't feel like Booker has gravitated to being like just a ball dominant guy who's orchestrating everything. And KD, we got to talk about KD because he's been individually great in this series and this season, probably going to be second team all NBA. But there's just a kind of a selfishness to KD throughout like the post-warriors period where it almost seems like he's

downshifted to this mode and mindset where it's like, I'm just to do the best that I can do. And all this shit that's going on around me, I really don't have much control over. And let's be like clear and favorable to KD. A lot of this probably was inflicted on him by trusting Kyrie Irving. Like it seems like he really went through some shit there and, and he's come out like with this sort of perspective. But it's just like it's almost like he wants to. The famous Twitter bio from early Twitter, I'm me, I do me, and I chill. Like, it seems like that is what he does.

And unfortunately, that's not the way you want when your team is on the clock immediately in order to win in a high-stake playoff situation. I mean, to not get out of the first round in their, I guess let's call their 1.5 season, right? Because they only had a couple games with a healthy KD toward the end of last season. Like, this is fucking outrageous that this bleak this soon.

First of all, wow. I can't believe you. You called it back to the original I'm me. I do me and I chill. That was just, that was excellent podcasting. I told you I'm old. So these, these are the old references. I'm glad you get them. Maybe the audience does. Yeah, you remember these things. You remember these things. Yeah, I think, I think that's a really fair point. And you can kind of see it in his play style too. And it's also a function of aging to a degree as well. But there is this sort of feeling that he exists in a style. And anytime I feel like he is asked about it to any degree, he just leans back on this notion of, well, once you make it back from an Achilles injury, you don't worry about all of this other stuff. You can't, you don't worry about these things that you can't control. I'm just grateful to be out there on the court. But at the same time, I don't know that I necessarily buy that from Kevin Durant because so Baxter Holmes wrote a story in ESPN today detailing KD's. recovery and just how difficult it was and just his sense like he heard the pop and like the moments after feeling like oh my god is this is this truly the end here um and he has this quote where he he says it just feels like life or death for me since since day one growing up if i wasn't doing this what the fuck else am i doing until the wheels fall off i just can't not be the best basketball player that i can be every day that's how i feel about podcasting What else would I be doing?

Who are you like, yeah, who do you like kind of study tape on in the summer? A lot of you actually, you know? Yeah. I'm just grinding the tape of, of your hits. You are you do you, you really send, you go back. Right. That's awesome. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Well, you know, if you ever want to talk off the record, like I can, I can give you some pointers. No. So this, this quote, it gets to two things. it surprises me that Kevin Durant would be okay with all of this. But then at the same time, it goes back to your point where it's like about being the best basketball player that I can be every day. And I feel like ever since he left Golden State, he's been on this sort of quest. And Logan Murdoch has written about this number of times. He sat down with him.

And he wrote an article of last playoffs about, you know, Kevin Durant kind of being this basketball nomad and just on this sort of lonely journey. And it's so strange to me because he left the Warriors and it felt like he wanted to build what he had with the Warriors, but he wanted to do it his own way. But the inherent difference between every place that he's been to since is the fact that all those Warriors teams, like they really functioned as a team. Everybody had their role. Everybody had a niche. And they had a connectiveness. And he was part of that connectiveness. Like I've never seen him play more team basketball.

He was basically, he's practically a defensive player of the year candidate at a certain stretch of his career. He was averaging overblock a game. He was easily their best defender. And that's on a team that, like one-on-one at least, on a team that had Draymond Green. And he was doing all this extra stuff. It was where he like really honed his playmaking and, you know, kind of the deeper nuances to his game. And then he left. And now he kind of talks about these things.

But, and I don't want to, I mean, Kevin Durant is obviously a great basketball mind. But I watched his career play out since then. and he ends up in these teams where the stylistic situation and the reasons for failure aside of the off-court stuff on the court are always the same. He's not a GM.

What's going on? Yeah. I do think he was at the advent of an era where player empowerment went from, we're just like getting our friends together and like we're just conglomerating superstars, aggregating superstars, and we're actually picking guys

who we want to play with. And it went a little too far. I mean, LeBron reaching for Russ, same deal. You could argue Kauai reaching for Paul George, forcing the Clippers to pay so much and getting rid of Shea in the process and all those picks. Probably, I don't know if it was a mistake.

That one's a little bit more less clear because they did have some good years. It was more injuries. But it's just like, I think things went a little far there. And it's weird that he went and did the same thing with the Sons over again, effectively. And he just went to a team where it seemed like he didn't care as much about,

outfit. And to, I guess to his detriment, he almost seemed to allow Ishpia and James Jones and the sons to pick the rest of the team, like the Bradley Beal trade, which is now boxing them in to a point where like, I think we could talk about a lot of different trades. I think we'd talk about all different things. I don't know what they can do, first and foremost, because I don't know who's trading for Bradley Beale at this point. And two, I think because of the new CBA, I think they're boxed into the point where they don't really have many options. They can't add guys. That's why they brought Grayson Allen back on an extension recently. I assume they're going to have to repay or to extend or pay again, Royce O'Neill. They have a draft pick this year,

one of zero in the next like 20 years. Other than that, I don't know what else they can do. So I guess in a weird silver lining way, they have to make this work. And so maybe that's going to force one of these guys to do something that they don't want to do. So here's a problem, though, trying to make it work is staying above the second tax apron is so punitive that it's going to hurt them. The one of the parts of the tax apron that I don't think we talk about a lot is how if you stay above it for multiple years, you lose a first round draft pick. Could you imagine being that situation? Yeah. That's seven years from now. Well, they don't have any. So I don't know what happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good point. Did they, was that like, was that like,

like chess not checkers by Matt Ishbia there being like well you can't freeze our traffic if we just get rid of all of them right exactly I don't know how many more pick swaps they can turn into pick swaps into pick swaps into pick swaps like there's just at a certain point it's like going to be a swap with the entire league so yeah I think you're right though I do think that

it's going to be a lot easier for them to definitely keep Bradley Beal but I think one thing to keep in mind Devin Booker when before the Chris ball trade there were quiet rumblings that like if things didn't fix themselves up in Phoenix that he would be next that he was kind of on the verge and if they didn't get a good team around him he was going to start asking out and now we're kind of at the end of this experiment where you know this is kind of it starts with Chris Paul then you have this internal development storyline that I mean frankly

they probably should have stuck with and tried to build around the edges of that tried to make that team a little bit better. It's frankly, I mean, honestly, you think about even that, like, going back to that series against the Bucks, they were incredible in the playoffs until they made a team that could out rebound them. All they had to do, all they had to do was go and get some guys that can rebound. That's so much, so much easier than the situation that they find themselves in now. So I could see, I could see a situation where, yeah, maybe Buc wants out.

I mean, Kevin Durant has done this many a time. I wouldn't be surprised if he's next. So that's going to be the thing that complicates it. Is it, yes, is it easier for them to stay together? Is that going to be tenable if one of those guys, two of those guys, decides, hey, maybe not so much? It's bleak. I'll say that. I think the biggest winners, if not the wolves in this one, were the Nets just because they have their future picks.

They shorted the suns, basically. And like, not much is going right for Sean Marks. But at the very least now, maybe you could turn those picks into an actual player. But we should talk about the wolves. They could use them to trade for Kevin Derr, Ed, or Booker. Or Booker, perhaps. We should talk about the wolves. Yeah.

I wasn't a wolves optimist, I would say. I think I respected the regular season that they had. But I had some doubts, in part because I wondered if Anthony Edwards could play with the consistency that you need to have in order to reach the upper echelon of Superstart. He's definitely like top 20 player at this point. That's pretty clear as day. But to get to that next step, I think you needed another. leap, like one of the ones that he had before would probably be the first leap. This was the next one to reach the super sardom leap. And I think he's having it. I think he's an absolute dog.

He wasn't very good last game, but Jade McDaniels kind of picked him up. I thought this game was not only just a clear-cut sign of like how much control he can exert on a game, just like when things got tight down the stretch, the sun started to march back and he just went downhill and got a couple buckets and that was that. He kind of just snuffed it out. But also the galvanizing effect he has on everyone else that when Towns is like marveling at his three-pooner and kind of like a smug way in the way that like Towns, like he deserves it. Things are going well for you. So you should really preen and do whatever you want. But it's kind of like, all right, buddy, like let's win a series first. Edwards was just like in his face barking at him. And I'm like, I want to run through a wall for

Anthony Edwards. And I feel like he's really kind of becoming a guy, if not like a top 10 sort of guy, right in forever, I was a couple of months ago I wrote about how I was a little bit concerned about the wolves in the postseason because they just have so many high voltage guys. To your point, Carl Anthony Towns, even Rudy Gobert for a lot, even just last year they had the Kyle Anderson situation. Kyle Anderson, low-key of firecracker.

I know he doesn't seem like it, you know, nicknames slow-mo, you talk to him, seems like just a chill guy on the court, he can be pretty fiery. McDaniels punched a wall. McDaniels punched a wall. Yeah, I'm burying the lead. I'm burying the lead here. And this got got into it with book too. And I was concerned because I was like, well, Mike Conley and Monta Morris are kind of like

the only counterbalance to this. But I really downplayed the degree to which Anthony Edwards could become that guy, especially on the court in terms of, to your point, his command, like just watching this fourth quarter. where it felt like, we were all just sort of like getting off jokes on Twitter, eulogizing the Suns and all of a sudden they start making it comeback. But then that is like, no, we're just, I'm going to the free throw line. Like I'm going to the free throw line every single time.

I'm going to get myself on Bradley Beal. The Sun sort of changed their coverage. And I'm getting to the line. Like I'm going to get the most reliable buckets like we can possibly get right now. And I think in seasons past, he might have tried like a little fuck you pull up three. He might have tried to like, you know, a little spin move. into a pretty mid-range jumper where if it goes in, we're all like, it's a Twitter highlight, and we're all talking about how Anthony Edwards is the future.

But this, what he did right now, just like this ugly sort of, like, I'm driving it down your throat every single time. That is the major change in his game that has been progressing. And I think, honestly, if we kind of look back now, this series ended in the second half of game one, where he came out of the gates and he was like, okay, I figured out what you guys want me to do what I have to do now. Like I, you guys are saying we're going to taper off the rim and I have to work in the mid-range.

Thank God it's a place. It's a part of my game. I've been working on a ton because I like having a ton of fun there. And then as soon as he, as soon as the son stopped doing that, they start trapping him a little bit more. He immediately gets off the ball. It's like that, the break between needing a time out when there's an adjustment made by the defense, that doesn't exist as much for him anymore.

And that's, that's such a big key. for the playoffs, but also for his own growth because you want him to eventually turn into that type of player where once they go deeper into the playoffs and you start seeing like, oh, we're going to change the coverage every two play. Or like after, you know, after makes, it's going to be this. After misses, it's going to be that. His ability to start to read that in the moment make the right call, like that's incredible. I think I know that he was making the leap as we got the anecdote on the broadcast that he'd cut out fast food

and really take advantage of like his diet and whatnot. like I feel like that's what you need. Not quite I'm vegan or like I'm hanging out with Steve Nash now, but it's like I take my body seriously. And to his credit, he's absolutely stacked at a point where he's like, he's standing next to Bradley Beale and he looks like Bradley Beal like wearing a giant puffer like coat. He's just like twice the size of him. It's unbelievable. But what you mentioned?

The prox sounds at a point then. Yeah, exactly. Bullying your teammates sometimes works. Let's just say that. Just quickly here. because we got to move on to some other games. Nikola Alexander Walker, would he,

he would not only start for the Sons, but as our Rob Mahoney was telling me before, he might be their third best player. This is a guy who was a throw-in, basically, into the Mike Conley deal for DeAngel Russell. Like, he had practically high-draft pick from the Pelicans, had practically almost bottomed out to the point where, like, he went to the Blazers,

but quickly got rerouted to the jazz. And I thought he was an afterthought. And to that point, we got the story after the trade went down where it was like, Nikiel Alexander Walker isn't just to throw in. And I was like, give me a fucking break. This is what everybody writes for every extra guy that you get in a trade. But like more power to whoever wrote that. I forgot who it was and also the wolves because they saw something in him.

And he's like instantly transformed into like one of the better young 3 and D guys. Yeah, I had a friend who was an assistant coach for Utah and he used to work with Nikiel Alexander Walker quite a bit. And he would tell me like, oh, no, he's coming. along like he's gonna be a guy and like you know like I had the same reaction as you did well that's cute like was it dway was you like your guy yeah how'd you know um yeah uh if it was dwayne wait he would have been untradable unfortunately which well unfortunate for uh wolves um yeah he he was awesome there was also that that third quarter where he was hitting a bunch of threes there was one in

the corner where aunt hit him and kevin durant was supposed to be the close out and he's like way above the free throw line late close out he hits it crowd starts booing like that's a fuck you three the keel alexander is hitting like dagger like your season is over now triples that's incredible i did not see this turn coming from and he's also he's been so good for them on the defensive end as well this entire series like there are times where you can't keep going with mike conley like we kind of saw it in this game too where um you know kevin durant decides that conley is a guy that he's going to try to target. And to be able to just have,

to have the depth that they have in general, to have Nikkela Alexander Walker, to have Nasreid who had a huge game, you know, Gobert, Kat, both in foul trouble. You know,

this is, they have, I was looking at this yesterday, they've got, I mean, they generally have six guys averaging, double digits for them through the regular season.

They had that through the series, but one of those guys wasn't even Nas Reid, because Nikila Alexander Walker stepped up so much. So, yeah, it's just, it's a testament to the fact that you sometimes you get a lot of these guys and you can't actually make it work, but they have. Yeah, good organizations manage to just build guys out of nothing.

And it only matters really on the fringes, on the margins, but like to get a rotation player functionally from nothing, like to build a guy up into a 3-and-D guy, the type of guy that every team wants and needs. Like, that makes a difference for a playoff team. It might make a difference if they make it when they make it to the second round against the Nuggets. We should mention this is only a 3-0 series, but it must be interesting. It feels like 7-0, so I think we're safe to maybe call this one. Let's go to the second game from tonight. The Mavs 101 Clippers 90. Kauai Leonard looks like a zombie out there.

He is either hobbling when there's a dead ball to get to his spot, or it seems like he's almost like dragging his foot galloping in order to execute a closeout. It's just like incredibly sad. It's at the point where I really think the clipper's, have to think about maybe not even playing him in this next game. Tyloo talked after the game. It seems like he's going to be a go. And like I guess if he wants to prove something, it's fine.

But like, do you think he's actually doing more harmed and good at this point? Do you have a choice with where he is in his career and the opportunity that like this isn't going to come again if this doesn't work? You know? And even if it does, even if they do keep this team together, they're only getting older. I just think, you know, you compare it to Janus, for example. Janice, you don't put back in a series at all, not after the season that he had, not with how much he relies on his athleticism. This is kind of the, it's the story of a lot of years of Kauai Leonard's career.

And I don't, I don't know if I would put myself in his shoes and gut it out, but I understand why, especially for a guy who consistently has been pretty careful with this health, why in this particular situation, he's decided that, It's worth it because this is your shot if you're the Clippers. It's this season. It has to be now. That said, it's been, I think, discombobulating for the Clippers to have him on the court. I think it really messed up their offense in game two.

And this game, they don't quite know what they're getting from him. And he doesn't, he's not insinuating himself into the offense. You can tell that he doesn't feel confident in his legs. Sanzzo's two dunks that got me very excited. But when it comes to, you know, wanting to leverage yourself, wanting to put yourself in the post against a very physical Dallas defense, he's been very much like, let me get off the ball. I thought that there were moments, you know, I was at game two, so maybe it was also just seeing him in real life versus seeing him on the screen. There were moments that I thought he looked a lot better in game two, especially on defense, especially on help side. Yeah, it just, it's not great.

working your way back into this series on the fly when Luca is going off. And I think the big thing that needs to be talked about is the Mavs just kind of have the exact team you really don't want to be playing in this situation. Not only is it Luca and Kyrie being able to facilitate and play off each other in ways that like, man, I'm just dumbstruck by how well that these two guys have meshed together. But like they have so many live bodies just flying around. You have all these perimeter defenders XM and whatnot, but also just like the bigs with the vertical space and you have Gafford and Washington that are just like kind of boppers now.

They're playing with confidence and physicality in a way that like I think is really imposing and wearing on a Clippers team. We should mention like yeah, Quai didn't look good, but Paul George also in follow trouble. That kind of opened the door for Quai to maybe be exposed a little bit more Russ had the game of his life. And by that, I mean he was absolute dog shit and then got ejected. He was begging for that ejection pretty much all games. and he got it finally. And so like, go ahead. Just on Russ, man, he starts off.

It starts off with the foul on Jalen Green or on Josh Green where he just smacks him in the face. I don't think that one was intentional, but he was very physical. There was also a play against Luca where he swiped the ball from him and Luca came up limping. I don't think there was any contact on that one. But the Dallas crowd, they're starting to circle now. Now we're going to be watching Russ. There's also a play in game too. I'm sure you saw it where he just shoved PJ Washington down the door like a

like a fucking bowling ball and nobody caught it. Like nobody caught it. One thing Russ has become an expert at in his old age is just like learning how to foul the crap out of players on defense in the postseason and get away with it. It's like he's in his Patrick Beverly era. And it kind of like it kind of worked a little bit for the first two games of this series. Kind of like it did against the Suns last year. He's just like blocking Kevin Durant from behind.

He's poking the ball away from Luca and Kyrie from behind. He's exceptionally physical. And he's like, he was kind of like he comes into these games and is like just like abbreviated explosions. And sometimes that can be good. And sometimes it can be really bad today. It was it was not good today because it starts off with that. But then on the court, you start, the map starts sussing it. Oh, there's like a great Kyrie backdoor cut on, on him.

that Kleba connected with him on. And then he just starts losing it once he start losing. Like that last possession was fucking hilarious. Like it was just like first he gets into it with, it starts off with PJ, right? And then I think Maxey Kleeber comes in and he's trying to be the peacemaker. He kind of touches Russ. And he's like, yo, don't touch me.

He starts pushing him. Then he starts pushing the referee. The second he pushes the referee, I'm like, okay, you're going to be out of here. You're done. You're done. But yeah, the vibes. That's just not how to.

you want to, that's not how you want to exit a game, but it's got me thinking, like, you have all this bad stuff happening. Russ melts down, PGs in foul trouble, Kauai's on one leg, Hardin had 21 points, like he was fine, you need more if everybody else is going to be in that situation. And Russ and man, go 0 for 10 for this game. So is that, is that something that, how do you look at the next game for the Clippers after, after all of that? Is that like, you throw this one away or are there things that the maps are doing that you think can be consistent? I think it's tough. I don't think you can completely count out the clipper is because, as we mentioned, Paul George, which is kind of disarranged in his own right. I think if he's out there,

at the very least he stabilizes and then gives them something of a focal point to at least counterbalance what maybe Luca or Kyrie is doing. Hardin is just not that guy anymore. As good as he's played at times in this series and he and Zoo actually have a really good connection. I thought they were like two of the better players on the floor at various times early in this game. It's just like there's only there are limitations there. And then the big thing we should talk about is that the Mavs just seem like they got off the floor from game one and like really reasserted themselves and found the flow that they found after the trade deadline in a way that I think it's like going to be hard to disrupt. I would be surprised if they just steamroll the rest of the way. But like

Luca, when he's on and now having Kyrie to just be able to dump off to whenever he needs to, and Kyrie being okay with that. But all these other guys that have just really slotted into perfect worlds around them, I mean, I said this going into the playoffs. I think if it's not the Nuggets coming out of the West, I think it might be the Mavs just because Luca, with enough help, I'll take him over most teams in the NBA. I think what they're doing quietly is reasserting themselves is kind of maybe that next team,

if they can make it to a Nug series and maybe give them a run for their money. What do you think about that? Would you put the Mavs maybe first in the pecking order in the West behind the Nuggets? I'm not ready to discredit the wolves here. I think they're almost one A and one B for me simply because the fact that I think the timber wolves

are built almost to counteract the team like the Nuggets where I don't think, I think the Mabs are built perfect. for themselves, which, yeah, let's talk about that, actually. Like, they are... Being your best self? No, really, that's kind of what you have to do. You have a generational player like Luca. And I think the way that they would beat the Nuggets is by basically just like,

the Nuggets, we talk about the Nuggets in the sense of, like, they post so many problems based on how well they've built around Yokic that, you know, you like, it's like a flood, man. Like, you kind of, like, you stop the bleeding in one area and then it just like, like a pipe burst somewhere else. You know, that's kind of what Aaron Gordon basically is for the Nuggets. Like once you kind of, you know, dismantle the Jamal, Nicola Yoakic pick and roll, oh, there comes Aaron Gordon on a cut.

And he's just going to backdoor cut you, like, for the rest of the game. And it's going to be so demoralizing because every time he catches it, it's basically a dunk. The Mavericks kind of slowly been building their own version of that. And kind of in a similar fashion in terms of just like the arc that they're on to the Nuggets, where they have known for a while how to build around Luca, just like I think the Nuggets knew for a while how to build around Nicola, but they had to first had the injuries, but they had to cycle around a bunch of guys.

Like we had our Will Barton era. We had like Paul Milsep, we had Jeremy Grant, and then finally you run into Aaron Gordon, you're like, okay, that's the four. But it was always going to be this sort of like big physical guy who could counteract some of the guys that Yokic couldn't guard but also take advantage of the space. that he creates.

And he ended up being the perfect version of that. With the Mavs, Rob Mahoney wrote this article on the ringer before the deadline, before they brought in Gafford and PJ Washington, about how the Mabs basically realize we need to build around Luca and Kyrie in a way that allows them, it hides them on defense, it allows them to get out on the break, it utilizes the physicality of the other guys,

and just like, you know, just get a bunch of big guys out there, right? And I think that, you know, on some level, we've kind of known this about Luca, right? Like the closest guy to Luca has always been LeBron. So it's like, okay, you bring in Kyrie. You had Brunson. There's nothing wrong with the Brunson fit, but we don't have to relitigate all of that. But Kyrie, honestly, probably is a better fit alongside Luca than Jalen Brunson probably ever would have been, especially considering what he's become now.

Like we can look back at that and say, okay, maybe everybody is okay with how that shook out, even though it was like from an assets perspective, a disaster for Dallas. But, you know, when I think about, we talked about their offseason, how they had an awesome offseason. They bring in Grant Williams. But it turns out that wasn't going to work. Williams, well, he was a little bit out of shape coming in, but it was kind of too slow. You know, he posed some of the same problems that you have with Luca on defense.

Like, if there's a guy that Luca can't guard on defense, that guy is probably also a guy that is going to give Grant Williams problems, even if he might give him less problems. And we have this idea of who Grant Williams is on defense. So they go and get PJ Washington instead, who I think provides a lot more size vertically and a lot more speed to counteract the guys that Luca can't guard. And then Luca picks it up defensively over the last few months as well.

So you have that now too. They figure out lively who they get after tanking in the play in last game of last season, draft him figure out that works. And instead of trying to do something else, they just double down and go get Daniel Gafford because they realize, oh, it's really good to have a guy who can protect the rim

and also defend, I mean, sorry, protect the rim and also catch lobs. And we don't need something else. We just need more of that. Because when Lively's hurt, we really, really miss that. And they tried to make that happen with Dwight Powell for a long time. And now it's like, okay, these are,

the guys. Josh Green. We didn't even talk about Josh Green, who was incredible today. It just, it feels like they found their formula, like getting guys who play defense. And they don't need to all be able to hit shots all the time, because Luca can, even like, if you think about what happened today, there is a moment in the third quarter where the, clippers start playing a zone, and they start bringing up. a guard every time instead of Zubach when they run pick and rolls. And they're also like having

somebody on the nail to prevent Luca from driving. And they live with this, A, because Kyrie had foul trouble. B, because they're like, okay, yeah, like Josh Green, go ahead, shoot that shot. Derek Jones, go ahead, shoot that shot. They've got guys. They've got guys on guys. Yeah, but Luca- They've got guys on guys. Those guys don't live with. But the thing is, Luca can then just decide, oh, I'll just hit a step back three. Like, you get enough of that from him and you get enough of that from Kyrie that you can actually live with the fact that the other guys don't space as much or sometimes they might go cold like okay fine we have two of the best shot makers of all time i think if you're looking at taking a step back i think the maves have been in recovery mode

since they fucked up the christop porzinger's trade which it looks particularly bad now that he's kind of rehabilitated himself with the Celtics although game two notwithstanding um i think what's happening slowly across the league is you're seeing teams look at the wolves, for instance, and in particular the nuggets and saying, like, we need to have size. It's really tough to get to a certain level in the playoffs unless you have size kind of across the board. It's not just Yokic with the nuggets and what he's able to do, just barreling guys into the rim whenever he has to. But it's also Aaron Gordon in particular. It's KCP. All these guys have length and size across the board. And it's just like, it's hard really to combat a team

that's that big that doesn't sacrifice that much offensively. And so going with the PJ and Daniel Gafford and lively when they have to, to me, that's like we're trying to replicate that, where we have enough offense, but we also aren't sacrificing and getting out muscled. And I think in a game like that tonight, it really came to bear where it's like, these guys are really imposing themselves on an older team that, yes, is more star-driven and has a lot of zip when things are going right. But like the clippers have just not looked right.

defensively in particular the past two games and a lot of that is just trying to guard Luca. I mean, that's just an impossible task. But at the same time, like the one thing the Clippers always had in their back pockets when these super teams formed was we're the two-way guys, right? We have Paul George, we have Kauai Leonard. It's like when it comes down to it, our superstars are going to play defense. And unfortunately, that just really hasn't been as much of an advantage. And if Kauai can't really be the Kauai of old, he's been very good defensively this season. And if he can't give that, then that like advantage starts to tilt the other way. Then you're relying on hard in holding his own in a playoffs on defense.

And then Paul George wasn't available tonight. And so I don't want to count the clippers out totally. But things that seem to be trending that direction, even if it's in a six or seven games series, in my opinion. Yeah, there was a play where Luca just, he ended up on Kauai. And I think if you want one, like just evidence of bad Kauai's feeling like he did not guard Luca much at all this game. But there was one play where he ended up on him. Luke I just walked him down from the three-point line into the post to Kauai Leonard.

It's tough. That's tough, man. Like, maybe even if everything was fine, like, you're just running into a generational force right now who's having the best season of his career and he's coming into his own. And sometimes that's it. Sometimes that's the game. Do you have maps or clippers coming out of this one? I've got the maps coming out of this one. I just, I've seen, I don't think it's going to be a short series.

I think the clippers will come back in game four. I think they have a really good shot of winning a lot went wrong for them. But yeah, it's just I've seen enough. And I just think the things that the Mavericks are able to do to Clippers are a lot more sustainable. And I think that the Mavericks have been able to take the Clippers out of what they like to do best. It was like that that Harden Zoo Pick and Roll that they rely on when things are going bad and they're going bad right now.

Like they just shut it down completely. And the Clippers haven't been. able to do that to the maps. Like the second Kyrie gets back into the game, zones over, games over. Getting lobs off of a zoo in drop, I think that's what I knew the game was probably over.

It was like, if you can't finish that off, I mean, God, let's finish this off by talking about the first game of the day. 230 Pacific Time Start, which I have to say as a stay-at-home dog dad,

I appreciate it. I think I was literally having my afternoon coffee as I watched a Friday playoff game. I don't know how many other people that don't have the luxury of that the same, but I have to say maybe that's what led to what I can only describe as a very wonky afternoon tilt between the

bucks and the Pacers. It was kind of, I think, the Pacers were turning to form in a lot of ways throughout the game where it's like their electric offense really made a difference early on. And then their crappy defense came to bear and allowed the buck to kind of worm their way back into this game.

They ended up having enough down the stretch, but like between the not following in order to allow the Middleton threes, and just kind of like really hanging on for dear life until Hal Burton was able to pull this one out. I have to say like it's an important win. It's a good win for them. But I'm just glad that they made it out alive here. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you, man.

Like they, they managed to ride out the young guys, though. And you have to love that. I just, I never thought we would see a day. If you, if you've been watching Rick Carlyle coach from, you know, like the early,

the end of like the early 2000s up until like 2020, I just, I never thought I'd see the day that a young player gets to foul Damien Lillard, one of the best shooters off screen of all time. I think four times. Was it four? Was it three?

I can't remember. It was a lot of times, though. He fouled him off of a screen just being way too aggressive, basically doing what I think... Do you remember when Donovan Mitchell did that to Dylan Brooks for like an entire series? A couple years ago, he was with the jazz. He was just like, oh, like, oh, you think?

Okay. I never thought I'd see the day that that guy gets to stay in the game. But ultimately, he did. There was a moment where T.J. McConnell came in for him. And he came through. He came through. Like that overtime, he gets, I think, you want to talk about that possession that was like, I went back and checked. It was a 110 seconds total in overtime where the Pacers got five offensive rebounds.

I think Nemhard was responsible for three of them. Pacers known for the rebounding prowess. Yes. It's I always said. Like, you had to know you had to keep Nembart off the glass. Everybody says this. It's true. I'm glad you mentioned him, though, because. I was impressed down the stretch their perimeter defense, both him and Neesmith being able,

I mean, the two Middleton shots notwithstanding, like I do feel like they flustered both Dame and Middleton to the point where like they weren't getting a lot of good looks when they needed to, and it did probably make some difference overall. I mean, Dame, it turns out, was hobbling throughout most of the end of the game because it seems like he has an Achilles issue. We should talk about that later. But I do think those guys on the margin. I mean, Neesmith, had the big shot toward the end there in the corner to really kind of seal the deal. The team has kind of been in disarray since the buddy healed trade and also doesn't help that Halliburton has been injured and clearly hampered.

Seacom is in there trying to like make sense of these things. But I do kind of like what I'm seeing for those young guys because they do have a certain edge to them. And it feels like Carlisle made a very specific choice post-trade deadline while they're still figuring things out. going to go with the grinders. We're going to at least try to find balance here. And Nemhart and Y Smith are kind of part of that. And so it was good to see them actually like make a difference when they needed those guys. Yeah, I think post trade just kind of in a way that

we didn't really realize as it was happening. They lost a lot of their shooting because Nemhard started the season not shooting well. He's he's bounced back, but he isn't really fully respected as a spacer. Aaron Neesmith, same thing. Like, this game was a testament to that. The Bucks basically said, if it's going to be a Halliburton, see I can pick and roll,

we're most likely going to put three on that and then hope somebody makes a good decision. And one of the last places of the game, that Neesmith theory that you talked about, that was one of those moments where he makes a pass, and it was Neesmith's first three of the game.

He was 1 for, he was 0 for 6. up until that point. So it's not even a bad bargain from the Pacers. I don't even know if I would go in and then like change anything. The Pacers shot 493s. You want to know how many of them they made? 13. Didn't they take 105 shots in this game?

Did I read that? It's insane. Yeah. I mean, it helps. It helps to get five offensive rebounds in one possession. But one thing that I think is kind of strange is I think the Bucks could have won that game, if not for that sequence.

Because I felt like whatever you think of, you know, the Middleton Gambit, I do think in large part it was a pretty reliable move, especially when you consider, you know, how much he was getting fouled. He ended up going 16 for 29. On that volume, like going 16 for 29 is is pretty damn good. He ended up having 42 points. I think that they knew what they wanted to do in crunch time, like every single time, even though Dame was hobbled and he ended up, he didn't take a shot, I don't think, in overtime. I think his last shot came with two minutes left in the fourth quarter.

They turned to Middleton. Obviously, that ended up working out as far as like a gamble goes. He hits three incredible threes. He's also their entire offense. And I almost feel like if they just, they didn't even need to score. But just the fact that they were able to keep the possession for that long and prevent Milwaukee from getting more offensive possessions where, like, my guess would have been like, yeah, you keep going to the well with Middleton. He hits a couple of mid-range jumpers and you don't really know what you're doing on the other end because that was the other thing, man. Why do you get five offensive rebounds?

You miss four shots. You know, and that's something that is a little bit concerning to me going down like for the rest of the series with Halliburton. It really didn't feel like he wanted the ball. Like it didn't feel like he wanted to be the one creating. And it felt like his teammates, especially there's one possession where he kept trying to set up Seacum. And Seacum was kind of like, no, it's you. And they ran the same play twice that ended up in the same situation where Miles Turner was supposed to take a corner three. And Brooke Lopez sussed it out because that's what happens when a former defensive player of the year sees the same play twice.

And it just wasn't, you know, he kept kind of pressing. He went one for 12 from three. So his three-point shooting struggles continue He wasn't really getting around anybody I thought they made a great adjustment At the end of the game on that final shot Getting him the ball full court Giving him a full head of steam to

To run and then you know like just the gap that he split Was so huge between Beverly and who was guarding him On the last play Somebody yeah it doesn't matter I think it was Middleton And he gets that floater off But Turner was open in the corner there And that was like one of the few times that game

That he didn't go to him in the corner And it was kind of like okay, yeah, no, please, like sometimes. It's a story of Halliburton, really, but it's especially pronounced now that he's not playing that well. I'm glad you mentioned it. Yeah.

The Bobby Portis was ringing in my head, the frontrunners quote, because I do think this game, at least Halliburton's participation in it, kind of had that arc where it's like, he had a very good start to the game, and it feels like he gets going when things go well early, especially in these playoff games.

It just seems like, and it's not even really a pejorative, honestly. it just feels like he plays with a certain zest for life, we'll say, that I think empowers him, but also trickles down to everybody. Like, they're at their best when he is flowing and running, and everything is just kind of in a flow state, honestly. But when things get tight, you've seen him kind of really tense up a little bit. And like, it's at this point we should mention who knows what his health status is. It seems like he's been playing her for maybe, what, half of the season at this point. And so I don't know how much to describe to that. It's really in

the LeBron zone where it's like if he comes wearing like a full body cast to his final presser, I'll be like, oh yeah, sure. He was he was dying the whole time. Right. He had a broken finger. He had a broken elbow. We had a like. Right. But it does seem like he's reticent to really drive the ball. It seems like his handle is Lucy Goosey in a way that it typically isn't. I know that he's like trying to suck attention away from Siakum and other guys, and Siakum has gone off in large degree because of that. But you're right. It's just like something's not quite right there.

And like when he's passing up pretty good three point shots for worse ones when he gets the ball back, it's like, what are you doing, guy? He finished the game. He got the triple double, but like it looks, the numbers look better than the actual performance. I thought it was, it was a strange game from him. I thought that at the beginning, I was pretty happy with how we played, especially after the first few possessions.

The first few possessions, it felt like he was just trying to get to guys, like hit him in the corner for shots. I think it's something that he also has to adjust to, the fact that this team that he has now is not the one that he had at the start of the season with all the spacing where the pass in the corner is always going to be the right pass.

Like sometimes you, semi-contested, is better than knee-smith open, you know? Like, not always, but sometimes. And sometimes they need you to get them going to a degree as well. And then I felt like he was attacking more closeouts. He was awesome on the boards. Like that was kind of one of the other things.

Milwaukee didn't want them to run. And it just ended up in like, oh, Tyrese Halliburton just flying in for rebounds. But then as the game progressed, I would describe it to injury or whatever is going on with the second half this season with this three point shot. Because I think I've seen enough from Halliburton to really like, okay, like it's, I've seen it make enough shots in crunch time. I've seen enough to not really be worried about his mentality and how he feels when the lights are bright. But it felt like he was in his head because he wasn't sure of what was available to him. This is not somebody who went into the season injured. I think Joelle Embed, for example, is somebody who at this juncture understands what he's able to do while he's hobbled because he's been through that so much.

Halliburton was not sure what he had access to and what he didn't have access to. And you could see that with some of the three pointers that were kind of he would take them or he was hesitant to take them or he would pass them up and then the Pacers would kind of end up with a worst shot. Maybe it's maybe he shouldn't like we've seen enough of those numbers to know like, okay, maybe those threes aren't it. But just the fact that it's a question. If we're questioning it, then I have to wonder if he's questioning it. Yeah, it's in stark contrast, I think, to Ann Edwards. And maybe like it's like kind of popping off in part because we just watched Edwards just barrel down the lane whenever he needed to. that sort of mentality seems like something that Halliburton is going to need to develop down the road there.

And maybe when he's healthy and maybe when the team kind of has figured each other out and had enough time to really integrate Seacum into the mix there, he will do that. So I'm not overly concerned long term. But like, you know, this is very much like his first playoff series. Yeah. Also, kudos to Doc Rivers. Because it makes me think about, I remember reading The Soul of Basketball by Ian Thompson. and it was kind of about that entire 2011 season when, in 2010, too, but it was really centered around LeBron's decision and how that changed the NBA.

And it also focused on the Lakers Celtics series in 2010. And Doc Rivers basically told Thompson that they decided that, okay, it's game seven. Kobe Bryant is not passing the ball. in game seven. So strategically, we are just going to double the crap out of him. Like, it was a mix of like a scouting report that was based on like psychology as much as it was tactics. And, you know, to Kobe's credit, he made the one pass that matter to run our test. But overall, in a game where they were like shorthanded, they didn't have Kendrick Perkins, they made it a close game. It was like 8379. Kind of worked as a strategy. I feel like he's

doing the opposite to Tyrese Halliburton. I feel like they're kind of creating these gaps, but they're not really, there's small enough gaps that you're like, should I attack? Should I not attack? Like there's a lot of, there were a lot of moments,

especially in that fourth quarter overtime where, you know, I found myself watching me like, okay, he's kind of making the right play here. He's kind of making the right play here. And I think with Halliburton,

if you give him that, oh, especially with how he's feeling right now, he's going to take it more often than not. But, you know, he didn't, he didn't on that final possession. So maybe,

maybe that's an evolution. Sure. I don't think Doc has had many good strategic adjustments since that series, unfortunately. To his credit, though, I don't think there really is one because at this point, we're just like making due with whatever's available. Credit to Doc for actually playing Andre Jackson a couple of minutes here. I thought he was pretty good, heart of a champion, former Yukon alum there. We appreciate that. But I think you're

getting exactly what you need from Damien Lillard from Chris Middleton in particular in this game. clearly both of those guys are not themselves. Like Middleton looks hobbled like every couple of other possessions. Lillard, as we found out after the game, has like an Achilles flare up. It seems like he's probably going to go in the next game, but he was pretty much, he admitted like a decoy down the stretch there. He asked to do that. And so as if the Janus injury wasn't bad enough, it seems like things are just mounting. They're going to have to play these guys heavy minutes. And as we've seen in this series, but also throughout the entire regular season with the bucks. Like when those three guys play together, they are absolutely awesome.

When they don't, it's kind of a mess. When Janice or Damien Lillard sat this season, including these now playoffs, they're six and 13. And like they kind of have looked at times like that sort of team, like an okay, pretty good team that can go toe to toe with a team like the Pacers. But like when it comes down to the end there, like they just don't have enough to really make up on the margins. What if it's actually psychological warfare by Doc Rivers here?

What if Damien Lillard is completely fine? Oh. I'm going to put out this quote about him being a decoy. And then he's just going to come up and have 35 and a half again. The Deontre Jordan for defensive player of the year, like just psycho. Oh, that was incredible. That was like, that's like that Bojack quote. Like if you say something to somebody long enough, it just reinforces.

Like society works. You think Doc watches Bojack? Do you think that's where he got it? No, I don't think so. Do you think he's going to be watching clip, though? I hope so. If only to hear his thoughts on Lawrence Fishburn's hairline, because that was immaculate. It was incredible.

I really enjoyed the second last line, the penultimate line in the trailer. I like when you can use that word correctly every once in a while. As my former editor, I'm sure you appreciate that as well. Welcome to the ringer. I follow all the guys on Twitter, but they don't follow me back. I can't wait to watch that. It's going to be so bad. It's tough.

It's going to be incredible. So what are you thinking from this series? If you honest, can't come back. Probably tough. We should mention Miles Turner. We haven't talked about it at all. 29 and 9. Verticality King.

Hit some huge threes. Probably has one of the toughest gigs in the NBA, just being the lone defender. Like really Anthony Davis, Midwest at this point where it's like things just constantly flying. at him and barraging him, but he has to be the last line of defense. He was awesome today.

Yeah, he was great. He was great. Seacom, sort of not as much. He had a big yeah, he had some moments. He had some moments later in the game. He had moments later in the game. More of a playmaking role. I think that was a lot of just like the buck strategy. But to that point, yeah, I honestly, I think they played the right game.

I think they played, especially after that first quarter, I think they played the right game. I think that they got the ball more into Dame and Middleton's hands. they slowed it down like all the isolations like the mid-range hunting the fowls I don't even think they were hunting fowls

as much as it was just like the Pacers were fouling them but either way that slowed down the game the Pacers did not get as many fast break points as they are used to Fortis kind of figures it out late like they get him a baseline jumper and then from there he sort of starts to get it going

and they kind of they ran some stuff for him from that spot as well so I'm of two months I'm in the place where if they played this game from the first quarter on, from this style, I think that they could have won this game. I think, hell, if you take a, like, if you make those 110 seconds of Pacer's ball in the overtime, I think they could have won the game. Doc said something that the broadcast relayed, so I'm not sure where he said it, about how after the first few games with Dame and how he kind of burnt him. out late, they decided that they wanted to slow play it. So it makes me wonder, can they actually pull off that strategy for four quarters? And now with Dame hurt, that adds another

layer of complication to it. So maybe, I don't know, maybe this was actually the one that they had to get. Probably. Yeah. If only to delay things to the point where Janus might be able to get back in the mix there, I think insult to injury. I mean, with Dame, the fact that Coachella weekend, too, has already passed now, the fact that he can't make it back there after going for the first time last year. It's, it's tough. I know he's a big shopper rowan fan, so it's going to be a hard one for him. I could not tell you that is. Um, all right, we should get out of here. That sucks to suck. Unless you want to sing a couple bars of what a pro wants before we go. Oh my God. If I could never hear that song again.

I'm going fucking nuts. Oh my God. I just, I auto hit mute every time I hear it. Every time I hear it, I'm like, where is the remote? It's become like, you know how like when you hear your iPhone alarm clock and your spine just like starts tingling a little bit. It's become that for me. I'm just like, where the fuck is the thing that I can hit so that doesn't play anymore? It's really tough. I love the thunder. I love Shay. I love Chet. But goddamn, they're doing the exact opposite of what they probably want with that one. No, no, it's like really bad like negative association right there. It's as bad as you can get. It's the anti-grew. All right. On that note, let's wrap it up here. Thank you to Troy Farkis. I'm production. Thank you to Benjamin Cruz. Thank you to Jack Wilson and all the video team for helping us out on this live stream.

I'm sure Ringer NBA show feed will have a lot going on this weekend and through the playoffs. So check us up then. We will see you later.