The Ringer NBA Show - The Suns Take a 3-1 Lead Over the Clippers | Postgame

Episode Date: June 27, 2021

After a bizarre game, the Phoenix Suns scraped out a a win over the Clippers in a knock-down, drag-out fourth quarter. Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann get on the mic to break down the amazing performance from Deandre Ayton, the impressive playmaking from Paul George, and previewing Game 5 as these two teams look to battle it out. Hosts: Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Flying Coach is back for a second season. Peter Shrager and Rams head coach Sean McVeigh are joined by guests from around the sports and entertainment world. They're discussing the latest NFL news, telling stories from their careers, and breaking down games from their unique perspectives. Check out Flying Coach Season 2 on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's an early Sunday edition of The Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor. And joining me is The Ringer's J. Kyle, man. What's going on, Kyle? Not too much, Kev. Just enjoy it. You know, it was my son's first birthday yesterday. So we were, it's been just a fun time better than a year ago where we couldn't see anybody.

So I've been just having a good weekend on that front and then watching some hoops. Interesting weekend for hoops. Yeah, definitely an interesting weekend. You were able to watch the Sons beat the Clippers 84 to 80 after celebrating your son's happy birthday. Happy birthday to him. I hope you had a good time with a family, Kyle. The Clippers did not have a good time last night. No, they did not.

Sons fans are still celebrating despite the fact that that was one of the weirdest games. A very 90s game. It felt like a throwback, a vintage game, because those used to be a common place, a game in the NBA playoffs. Throughout the entire regular season, with the way offenses are nowadays, you don't see a lot of 8480 games.

The Clippers had only 36 first half points. Then they exploded for 30 in the third quarter. And it feels like the game was about to fall away from the clippers who were slipping through their fingers. Devin Booker was so frustrated. He removed the mask. The pace had slowed. The sons weren't playing.

playing well at all. But then in the fourth quarter, 15 to 14, sons in the fourth quarter, hold on, win the game. It's one of the ugliest fourth quarters I've seen in a long time. But ultimately here, Kyle, sons are up 3-1. Chris Paul and the Phoenix Suns are one game away from the NBA finals. Oh, yeah, man. And I think I think that I should eat a little crow here because I think you were right. I mean, when we were talking about this series and how it was going to go. I said I thought it could extend out. Well, I will say the caveat that I added on there was if Chris Paul was back, it could be six, maybe even five. But ultimately, I think I overestimated LA's offensive dynamism, really. And by that, I just mean Kauai not being out there

or whatever, for whatever reason, their lack of, you know, creation. It seemed like they have guys that can hit shots. We know that. It just seemed like they were, they've always kind of been a step behind Phoenix execution-wise in terms of like generating manufacturing, that consistent, dependable offense. I have three bullet points for this game. Three things that I think are like the big. I think the game was one in the second quarter in the middle of the second quarter for Phoenix. I feel like this stretch is what gave them, you know, a little, a little pad. DeAndre Aiton was absolutely phenomenal in the second quarter defensively of this game. I kept, Yo, he altered everything, Kyle.

Literally. Everything. I mean, I haven't charted it. I would be interested to go back and chart to see if he literally did. But he, it was phenomenal. What he didn't block, he bothered. Yeah, it was really, really impressive performance. It was really a culmination I felt of all the work he's put in over his three years in the NBA to improve his habits,

improve his ability to read the floor. It all came together for him throughout these whole playoffs, but especially in that game for. I thought it was an extraordinary defensive performance. He looked like an all-star big man. He looked like an all-NBA big man. It was absolutely sensational. At the very least, all defensive.

At the least, exactly. Yeah, and there were a couple times where, you know, the Clippers were trying to run pick and roll. And, you know, Aiton gets a lot of credit, obviously. We've talked a lot about how good Bridges has been. We kind of expected him to be good defensively. I feel like a lot of people who were paying attention did, at least. But he got me thinking, I mean, they're on the track to be like the best young defensive duo in the league if they keep this up.

I mean, I was thinking, I was looking across the landscape and it was like, you know, Kauai and Paul George have been considered, you know. And then you have like Jimmy and Bam, Drew and Janice. I think you could probably throw Brooke in there too. And then Simmons and Bede. I know that's not a popular one to break up right now. Might be breaking up there. Yeah, yeah. What do you think about that?

Where do you think that they kind of, what do you think their ceiling is in terms of like long term as a defensive duo? Do you think they have a chance to become one of the best or the best? Certainly. I mean, with DeAndre, and we're seeing what he can be when he's locked in every single night in the postseason. You know, credit for him for focusing and staying and maintaining his energy levels. I mean, in a Saturday night's game, he played 41 minutes. And they needed those 41 minutes out of him, right? And then with McKell Bridges, 39 minutes, defending multiple positions throughout the entire.

entire playoffs, different types of players. You can stick him on. And I think with Bridges, when we think about great defensive players, we often think about man-to-man defense, you know, bothering a guy, poking at the ball, doing what Patrick Beverly has done this series. Like Patrick Beverly has had a really good on-ball series against Evan Booker and last round against Donovan Mitchell, too. But McKell Bridges, a lot of it is positioning, it's intelligence, it's perfect, timely

rotations, it's rebounding. And like, that's a significant part of it, too. had 13. Granted, there were a lot of missed shots to rebound in that game with the clipper shooting 5 of 31 from 3 and the sun shooting 4 of 20 from 3. Not a hot shooting performance from either team. But

with McKell Bridge's Andy Andre, and the both of those guys in their own respective ways certainly have potential to be on the upper echelon of defensive players at their respective positions. I think you know, certainly one of the best defensive duos. There's not many great young duos

for big and wings either. Partially, because the lack of bigs. I mean, Kat and Edwards can maybe grow into something. Yolkuton Porter Jr. already are. Sorry, I couldn't control my laughter. How about, how about Kat and McDaniels? Is that better for you? Yeah, I guess.

You're going to need to throw a plus in there somewhere. I'm not, I'm not correct. It's more of a cat statement. But anyway, of course, I'm not being fair there. Anyway, Katz improved. You were right the other night when you said he's improved. He's definitely improved, but still not the same level. For sure.

And I, think that I tend to, and I've said this all over the place, but like I tend to take the philosophy of just rooting for young guys, so period across the board. Like I just enjoy seeing potential go to. I sound like a, I sound like a guidance counselor right now. I just enjoy seeing kids get their potential. No, I do. But with Aiton, I mean, when I first saw him, you know, you didn't need to be, you didn't need to be Jerry West to have the eye. to see the potential for DeAndre 8. And I mean, his measurables were insane.

He just, he showed all kinds of, like, signs of growing into something. And it's just been a, for me, actually, I'll say this. I'll give him, I think this is a big compliment for him. The most impressive thing for me is that the defense came first. Because offensively, he had, he had things that he showed. It was just like, okay, maybe someday DeAndre is like a pick and pop guy. Maybe he's a post-up guy who can, you know, flip his grab. and create for people,

weak side and things like that. And I think those things are going to come. But like I've been really, really impressed that the defense came first and that it came to this extent. Yeah. And you know, a big part of that,

I mean, he credits the people around him too. When I interviewed him earlier in the year for the son's feature that I wrote, he's like, you know, I'm blessed by the basketball gods. And I asked him what he meant by that.

And, you know, we put this quote in the void video I did too. But he pretty much just said, it's, you know, the body that I have, right? It's the athleticism that I have.

but it's also the people around me. He mentioned Monty Williams, a veteran like Chris Paul, James Jones, the belief and trust and the investment that they've put in him, empowering him within this role. But you know what? He's also going to give himself some credit, though, for his mindset, too, because as a number one pick,

you could just as easily, like, listen to all, though. Well, why didn't they take Lucas stuff and be like, I got to be a score? I got to score 25 points. Get me some post touches. Give me some opportunities to get turnaround jumpers and pick and pops. Like, I want to score.

But instead, What he's done is accept the role where he's setting hard screens to create those shots for this team, even if he doesn't get a stat for it. He's rolling hard of the rim. He's finishing at an elite rate. He's crashing the offensive boards. I mean, we saw it. We saw it. Anytime the clipper's downsize or anytime Zubots is switched onto the perimeter, he is attacking the offensive boards.

And he has such good touch with the right and left hand to steer the ball back in. It's like very subtle, but his ability to do that is elite. It's an elite skill for him. he's accepted a more limited offensive role and fully embraced being the anchor of the defense, a guy who is so skilled, he can lock down pick and rolls. And if the clippers are playing small, he has the ability to still survive and stay on the floor. He's not a liability. I mean, like, I feel like for DeAndre Aiton here, he is showing the roadmap for how young

bigs can thrive in the NBA without scoring. And, you know, we'll see some big scents of the draft. Like Evan Mobley will be entering the draft. Guys should be watching DA thinking if I'm not going to be a 25, 20 point per game score, here's how I can impact winning. DA's doing it. Aiton's been awesome. Dominating, Kyle.

Dominating. The Bahamian behemoth. You said like 10 things that I want to put a pin in real quick. But I mean, absolutely. Yeah, that was the thing I takes you about. I love him, Kyle. I love him. I can talk about Aeton all day.

He's fun. It's fun. It's fun to see it happen. It's fun to see. He just positionally, he, I will say one thing. He was, he had to be annoying as hell to box out during this game. I noticed that throughout Zubotch just looked helpless trying to keep him. Hayton was on the verge of being over the back a few times.

But I mean, he was going straight up a lot of the time. Let those go. Let those go. Just play ball. Let them play. We really need to seize any opportunity to just play in the NBA. Especially considering the foul and things. If you looked at like the play list, like the playoff,

play thing for this game. It was just like, foul, foul, foul, it was very choppy. Yes, but absolutely. That was something I said to you. I said, I really, I find myself thinking things about Evan Mobley that I thought about Aiton where I was just like, man, if this, you know, if this goes this way, this guy could be positionally like a dominant defensive player. He handles it better than Aiton ever has, maybe ever will. But I just think you have to start thinking about guys who can remain physically dominant and not get played off. the court. And I think what Aiton is doing is really interesting in his, and this ties into a

bigger thing about the Sons that I think was key in this game is that like the lack of shotmaking made this game come down to which team is going to execute better, which team is the thing about the Sons in general and the macro sense is that they don't bail you out with like aimless offense. If you look at like the way they play, they only really have one guy that they set loose and they tell to like just go wild and create and that's campaign he does sometimes i mean last night he had a sequence where he like went a little wild and you can tell chris paul was upset because he had a zubotch switch but going back to eight and the other thing you said another thing that i want to go back to which this was the screening and i went and looked this up there i mean there is a

stat for this but so in in 2018 19 18 eight and average four point two screen assists a game last season four point one this season five point six so there's been he was like number three really high in the league. Some of that is playing with better creators in the pick and roll, things like that. You're going to rack those up, you know, CP3, Devin Booker. But in general, I've just been really, really impressed with Aiton. And he just had me in almost in disbelief, even though it's becoming a common thing for him now. For sure. I mean, understandably so. Because with Aiton, what he, started from, where he is now, it's a dramatic difference. And you could say similar things about Devin Booker, the player that he was in college where he was effectively a spot-up shooter,

I believe. John Calapari, his freshman year had him run, I think, six or seven. Don't go there, Kev. Don't go there. Pretty wild. I mean, Kat also didn't shoot a single three as a freshman. So I'm not sure what's going on with the offensive rolls down there. But with Devin Booker, he has turned himself into a heck of a player. But in that game four, really ever since breaking his nose, his production has dropped eight for 20 in game four for 25 points. I mean, he's playing with great effort out there still fighting defensively still trying to facilitate a bit play his role but they do need booker whether it's in finishing out the series or in the NBA finals both him and Chris Paul need to get back on track Chris Paul still doesn't look like his full self

six for 22 in that game four we just watched for 18 points settling for a lot of midrange jumpers that's a lot to do with what the clippers are doing against them zoobots is playing great defense really protecting the rim. Clippers are forcing those mid-range dumpers with their style on defense. But with Phoenix, I am curious, Kyle. It seems like they aren't getting to some of the stuff that's worked for them throughout the entire season. We're not seeing Cameron Johnson cuts quite as much. McKell Bridges cutting to the rim. There seems to be a little bit less motion and a little bit more stagnant on the offensive end, aside from portions of that first half when they were just pushing the pace, really pushing. Is there any reason for concern or any? And,

any hope for the clippers to be able to get back into this? Or is this just some, you know, cold shooting from Devin Booker and Chris Paul? This might be over already. If one thing, if, what you just described is there's sort of like a trickle down effect. I mean, there's trickle down economics and basketball where you're talking about your perimeter stuff getting taken away.

Those guys aren't creators. They're not on ball a lot. So a lot of those opportunities that they get are the results of the front end of the flow of offensive flow. And for Phoenix throughout this series, I think it really has just purely been a case of all three of their creators have had something going on. Devin Booker, you know, Pat Bev has defended him well,

but I mean, he broke his freaking nose. So, I mean, that's the thing. And his discomfort obviously is a result of that. And then I don't know if you, Mike Prade is a guy on Twitter and one of the smartest basketball people writing. Super, super bright. I tried to articulate this and he did it much better than I ever could have, or he was just talking about, you know, Booker loves those coming with a head of steam off of a double screen or a DHO and coming down and kind of getting you off balance and cooking you that way. He's not much of a like in a crowded elevator, make like a physical kind of ISO move and get you. But with Pat Bev, he has had success around the elbow, you know, shooting over him. He hit that famous, he hit that game winner where he yelled at Pat Bev last year. He has a size advantage on him in that area. So you notice they were doing less.

north to south momentum actions and more south to north where he was popping up off of a pin down and then getting to it but but what mike said that i think is correct is that pat gets into to book early he hits first and not every defender is like that pat is very much a hit first just human being in general i would say and uh but you saw kind of you know he started to kind of get a little bit momentum over the course of the game but then also you with our other creators campaigns sprains his ankle CP3 had the COVID stuff. It's just a weird. It's weird that all three of those things happen at once. And I think that affected the rest of their offense. For sure. I mean, I think of the clipper side of things here, they are down 3-1 in the series. Teams that have led a 3-1 series

have won 95% of the time, a 251 to 13 record. I mean, like for the clippers here, Tyloo might say it's very doable for them to come back. But the odds are not good here. Even though he did it once before. You had LeBron James on your team when it happened in the NBA finals, but for the Clippers, the fact, you know, without Kauai Leonard, they were able to get past Utah, the fact that they're still won a game against Phoenix. They've been competitive. You still have to give the Clippers and Ty Lou credit here because think about it, Tyloo didn't use Zubots or Beverly a lot to finish games in round one. Zubots barely plays at all in round two. And now in round three, these guys are frictions of the rotation. And Zubat's,

is playing great basketball. He played a career high in minutes in that game four and they needed it from him when they don't have Zubots, especially with Marcus Morris being limited with the knee soreness that he has. They have to have Zubots and Beverly's done a heck of a job. I mean, sometimes like the Russell Westbrook quote about he just runs around. He's got everybody fooled about his defense.

Like the guy's a legit good defender in certain matchups, right? And he's done a good job this series. So for the Clippers here, down 3-1, I keep coming back to Paul George, Kyle, because they're in positions to win. They are in positions to win. Paul George in game four, impressive playmaking. I thought he made some really smart passes. 16 rebound, played

really good defense, was active. But again, struggled to score the ball, five for 20 from the field, 12 of 18 from the free throw line. He had the 24 second violation down the stretch of the game, which I thought was just inexcusable. You got to have time and situational awareness in these moments. He didn't there. I find myself just sitting here watching games thinking to myself, what is Kauai Leonard up in his suite comfortable thinking about as he watches his co-star, go five or 20, 12 for 18, 24 second violations? I wonder what Kauai Leonard is thinking in that moment. What do you think he's thinking about, Kyle? You're trying to ask me what I think Kauai Leonard is thinking.

Yes. He's a blank slate. You can say whatever you want. It all applies. I feel like he has a very quiet mind, I would say. Kawai just live, he is a quiet mind. He lives very in the moment.

He might be very calculated. He might be fooling us all. No, I don't mean he's dumb. I just mean it. Kauai just seems like a very like peaceful. He doesn't seem in turmoil to me ever. Paul George,

I feel like we should just start calling him playoff pumpkin because he did it yet again. He threw out like, Like him blowing kisses after the third quarter of that last game, to me was the most. I couldn't believe it. That was the most Paul George thing. I was just like, dude.

It's the third quarter. He almost reminds me of like Roman from succession. Like, I don't know if you've watched that. I mean, like, it's just like he's always like, you know, really putting it out there that he's. And he'll show flashes where you're like, okay, yeah, there's something there. And then he blows up a rocket. and then keeps it singing on. Roman boy,

for Paul George. I don't know. It's just, I catch myself just being like, what in the world are you doing? So talented. And he's one of the most frustrating superstars.

I don't even know if I can remember who's the most, who's the most frustrating? Can you think of another person like this that just like consistently makes you bang your head against the wall like, like Paul George does? Hmm. Not in the way he does it because, usually those guys like it's clunky, right?

Like with Paul George, it still looks smooth even when he screws up. Yeah. Right? It looks smooth. You look so good when he screws up. Like the 24 second violation was so slick. It looks great.

It was aesthetically great. And his braids look excellent. Oh, yeah. It looks great. But yeah, I mean, I'll tell you what I think Hawaii's thinking, Kyle.

Oh, okay. Yeah. He's thinking I want to change. I figure that's where you're going with that. That's what I think that Kauai Lair is thinking. What do you think the playoffs last year? That's where I don't know. I don't know.

I'm not sure what the answer is. I'm not sure what the best fit might be for a trade. If Kauai even comes back, still a question there has not signed a contract will be an unrestricted free agent and there will be many teams that have interest in him. He will have options. I just don't know what the deal is because if you're, if let's say you are trading Paul George. That's what I was going to say.

might not be a case of Kauai leaving it might be. What a turn that would be. What a turn it would be if we went from OKC getting a war chest of shout out to the press box. I said war chest. Getting a war chest of assets for Paul George. And what a sequence that would be if it ended up that Kauai went there to be with Paul George and then got him traded.

I mean, I'll tell you what. The stories about Kauai Leonard looking elsewhere will be coming soon, assuming the Clippers loses a series. They need Reggie Jackson to continue stepping up to keep them in these games. 22 points, averaging 22 points on 49% field goal percentage ever since Kauai Leonard went down in game five. They're chanting, Reggie, Reggie at one point in the fourth quarter. I mean, he's become one of the most unlikely playoff hopes, or I don't want to call it a hero for the Clippers, keeping them competitive in these games. But ultimately, you know, for the Clippers, you know, for the clippers here without kawai leonard they just don't have enough man i really i really think it's that

simple and we're talking about if this series has any chance of extending here i really do think it ties back to what we talked about last week no kawai leonard no chance a wise person once told me basketball is is simple uh we do tend to over complicated at times and when you just are without a superstar and you're another thing too is man whenever these teams are orchestrated around superstars and that piece isn't there anymore. Yeah, you're going to see an impact. You're going to see an effect of that. And the sun's down.

To me, it just seems like the clippers are spinning plates to create offense. And the sons are the better execution team. Ultimately, defensively, again, like I said, Aiton, absolutely brilliant. It was good to have campaign back for them. I thought that was huge. I guess the other thing here, too, well, I was looking at Paul George's contract. I mean, he's on until 24, 25.

48.7 million dollars. So what I mean, do you think that like surge instead of Zubach would have made a difference? That would be my last thought on this. Yeah. I think Sergei Bacca's loss has weirdly fallen under the radar here. Not having him certainly hurts the clippers here. I'm not so sure it would swing the series in their favor to have Ibaka available.

He still, I mean, look, if we're talking about full strength, 100% Sergei Baca, maybe that would make a dramatic difference. but the last version of Sergei Baca we saw towards the end of the season, worn out, coming back from injury, I don't think that would make much of a difference at all in this situation. No. Why do you feel a little bit differently that maybe that would help out? I don't. I was just curious to throw that out to you.

The other question I wanted to ask you is, okay, let's say hypothetically, we go to the huddle. And Tailu gets out the board and he just says, all right, every time down we're feeding it to boogie. The Marcus Cousins, get on the block. What do you think the Clippers' chances are, Kev? Do you think I because I think it swings the series and I think they go ahead and win their first title if they do that because that's just my unbiased opinion. Because Kentucky. Yeah. Right.

Right. Since you mentioned boogie, I have to bring this up. The free throws at the end of the game. George misses. Cousins gets filed. Goes to the line. When he intentionally missed, he threw it at the backboard, which is not allowed. When you intentionally miss a free throw and try to get a rebound, you have to hit the rim.

earlier in the week, Tyloo is compared to Bill Belichick. I'm sorry. Bill Belichick would have all of his players aware of the situation in that scenario and make it abundantly clear. Don't hoist it off the backboard. Ty Lou has coached a great playoffs. As a Patriots fan here,

I have to show my bias. I was going to say, you're just flipping it right back on me. There's nobody who compares to Bill Belichick in terms of game and situational awareness. I mean, he is the goat of coaches. for that reason. Tyloo, very, very good, may be great.

But in that situation, that blunder can't happen. Neither can the 24-second violation by Paul George. Granted, that's not Tyloo's fault, but some major blunders by the clippers down the stretch of that game. Yes, the mental errors did not help, especially when you consider their margin, their margin for error was considering all things considered. They need their shot making to be outrageous. And if they can't generate consistent offense or, you know, especially on a lot of that goes

through Paul George, you know, I think you're depending on Reggie Jackson more than you probably would like on that front. You can't get that going. It's just going to be really hard for the Clippers. I could live to be wrong on that, but I don't expect to be. The suns just look, even when they're not playing well, they're playing well in a way. You know what I mean? Like the integrity of their identity as a team. And that's why you go try to build teams with like structural integrity like that, because when the other stuff isn't there, inevitably sometimes it's not going to be that those are the things that help you win ball games. Top down James Jones, Mottie Williams, tire coach of staff and the players all buy-in at all levels.

This son's team is here for a reason. Some injuries for the opponents have helped along the way. But ultimately, this son's team could be here anyway because of that structural integrity you're talking about. We have game three of Bucks, Hawks on Sunday night. Game five of Clipper's Sons potentially could wrap up on Monday. Kyle, next weekend, we'll be recording Saturday night instead of Sunday night. on the schedule for that is game six of bucks hawks we'll see if at that point we still have a series or not i look forward to watching some great basketball this week and talking with you next

saturday kyle hope you have a fun day you too man likewise thank you for listening to today's episode of the ringer nba show and thank you to steve allman for producing it please do us a favor and follow the ringer nba show on spotify or wherever you get your podcast thank you again for listening i hope you have a fun day