The Ringer NBA Show - The Three-Point Revolution Is Only Just Beginning | The Corner 3 (Ep. 327)

Episode Date: October 26, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor is joined by Danny Chau and Jonathan Tjarks to discuss the exponential growth of 3-pointers in the NBA (1:24) and the promising offense but problematic defense of Trae Young and Luka Doncic (13:46). Then, they throw an outlet pass to this weekend’s games, previewing a rematch of Lakers-Spurs as well as exciting matchups between the Jazz and Pelicans and the Celtics and Pistons (26:57). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And when you get the pixel 3 on Verizon, it comes with America's best network. Visit your local Verizon store today or learn more at p.0.com. ST slash the Ringer. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor, and we are the Corner 3. Joining me here in Los Angeles as Ringer, Associate Editor, Danny Chow. Hello?

And from Dallas, Texas, it's Ringer staff writer, John Charks. I just got back from yoga, so I'm ready to go. Got some takes ready for you, boys. There we go. Do we go. You go to the yoga man, John. I'm liking it. Absolutely.

Today's podcast is produced by Bobby Wagner and recording this at 2 p.m. on Thursday, so we're not going to be able to react to 3.4. Thursday nights games. That's all right, though. We have a really good show plan today for you. Starting off, we're going to talk about the trend that's been changing the game of basketball this season. The only thing anyone has been able to talk about.

Really? Pace. Danny, the league this season is posting its fastest pace since the 19805-86 season. Three-point rate is at an all-time high, and we're seeing scores in the 130s and 140s. What are the contributing factors to this change? Yeah, I just think there's this general desire from the league,

from the top down to basically make the game a lot faster, whether that's been small adjustments like the 14 second clock reset after an offensive rebound, or this point of emphasis that the refs have really been hammering down on, which is the freedom of movement. So basically, they're going to be a lot more stringent on calls on grabbing or holding of any of that sort. So it's kind of like there are almost these parallels

to the changes going on in the NFL with how they're protecting quarterbacks, you know, other than the inherent violence of football, it's just not in basketball. But I feel like... Thank God for Trey Young. Yeah, right? I mean, I feel like these teams have just kind of come to this collective realization that Pace is the trick.

Pace has been on the rise every year since the 2011-12 season when it was at 91.3, according to basketball reference. So Pace has risen from 91.3 to where it's at now, around 101, about as quickly as it dropped from the mid-80s, to the early 90s. Charks, what's your sense of this changing style of play early this season? Is this something you expect to continue over the course of the year? Or is it going to be something that's going to continue to increase?

How do you see this evolving over the course of the season? Yeah, I don't think it'll go down much at all. I'm not sure if it gets any faster, but you combine the pace the number three teams are taking. It seems like anybody wants to play at the Rockets these days, just jacking up as many threes as possible. Teams have been trending this way anyway. More teams want to play with more ball movement. they want to play out more in transition,

get more corner threes in transition. So that's the way it's going. It's more of an analytics-driven evolution, isn't it, Charks? Yeah, so I was at a couple of Mavs games, and I asked Carlisle, Tibbs, and Fred Hoyberg, and they were all like, yeah, analytics are saying, take these shots. I mean, Carlisle even like shout out Heralabob in his press conference.

It's a new day in the NBA, man. I miss Heralabob on Twitter. He's making, he's making, I mean, he still tweets here and there, but, you know, the basketball tweets on there as much. You got a real, it takes, back on your NBA, work for an NBA front office. Yeah, I'm sure the coaching snark

has kind of gone down to. No doubt about that. Yeah, but, you know, there's just a lot more reading and reacting. You know, the set plays aren't quite as pervasive as they might have been in the past. So it's a lot of like, a lot more fouls and a lot more of the defense

is just kind of scrambling to figure out what's going on. Yeah, I talked with Dante Cunningham after a game earlier this week, the Laker Spurs game. And, you know, because I felt like in that first half despite a lot of points being scored. And like it ended up, both teams scored over 140 after I went to overtime.

But I felt like early in the game, the Spurs defense had a pretty solid job of containing LeBron. They had two, three guys in the paint sometimes because the Lakers didn't have enough threatening shooters. And I asked Cunningham about, you know, the changing rules. And, you know, I said like it felt like you did a good job in that first. I mean, it's like, yeah, but I followed out. And it's like, yeah, that's true you did.

But you still did a pretty good job. But the following out kind of says it all in a way. And he was like, yeah, you know, I learned a lot from a guy like Tony Allen, someone who was a very aggressive defender who would, you know, and hold guys, steer guys, push guys. Full up in their airspace. Those days have come and gone. Exactly, Charks.

And what he said is like, I want, and he said to me, I wonder if those guys, those types of defenders, you know, maybe they're not going to be the same anymore. They're the ones more than anybody else that's going to have to adapt to this new way of defending in the league. And in a way, I'm enjoying watching these high-scoring games, but I also kind of miss like those Tony Allen type of defenders. There's definitely a point where it's like, oh, well, the axiom was always styles make fights. And we're kind of moving towards this idea that everyone has to play the same way in order to keep up.

And so, you know, it's easy to kind of begrudge the fact that there's kind of this monoculture in the NBA kind of developing. But at the same time, like, we got that amazing Warriors jazz game last Friday because the jazz, along with the rest of the league, we're just like, You know, it's probably not a bad idea to put Joe Engels in as much space as possible. Yeah, and I think, too, like, everyone's shooting threes, but there's still some variety within that, right? For sure. Like, the way the nuggets play versus the way the rockets play is pretty different. And with the way the bucks play as well, they have pretty much an equal shot distribution to the rockets from restricted area and three point range, and they barely shoot any mid-range jumpers, but they get their shots a whole lot differently. With Houston, it's pick and roll, pick and roll, isolation, isolation with Hardin and Paul.

And with Milwaukee, it's like pick and roll hair, isolation there, post up, side-to-side ball movement. They're running essentially the typical boot-in-h holder spurs-esque offense just with Yonisant and Accompo and a lot of post-ups. And I'm playing in more space. It's just like it's just kind of exponential. It's already there and not changing it that. I mean, I don't know. Charks, is it more so, is it really driven by the player types?

Is it driven by the roster build, the lineups that are being used more so than maybe the systems? I think it's all of the above. I added an article last year about Trey and Luca. And I was like, if you look at these are the kids who grew up watching Steph Curry play. And like all of a sudden, these things are more possible

in their minds like, hey man, maybe I can just shoot 10-3s a game. Whereas kids 20 years could never even try that. I mean, you have players like that. You let them do what they do. We've been talking about this as an analytically driven phenomenon. I kind of think of it as something

even broader than that. Like, we're looking at a game in which there are very defined physical parameters. And when you look at that, the court is 94 feet by 50 feet. And it's filled with 10 very large human beings who are basically in a race against time. And so anytime that, you know, the object of the game is to maximize the usage of time, it will involve things getting quicker. And the same kind of goes with maximizing the potential of space. Like, if you are in limited quarters, the whole objective of basically ergonomics is to create as much space as possible. And so we're not really looking at small ball.

We're not really looking at skill ball. It's just like basic ergonomics. It's geometry. Yeah. To quote Joe Rogan. Always a great idea. He said something along the lines of like, I feel too stupid to understand that. So ergonomics is basically the study of making.

things more efficient, just in general, in everyday application. And so that's, that's basketball now. Yeah. Sounds great. Not more efficient words, but definitely more efficient. Yeah, yeah, I'm too stupid for this. That was the Joe Rogan quote. I'm too stupid for this. No, but, you know, to your point, Danny, at all seriousness, it is more than analytics. It's bigger than that. And, you know, I tweeted the other day, I like this. I'm enjoying the scoring. I think it's fun. I think it's great seeing teams actually play smart by shooting more threes. You know, I have a handful of teams that are still living in mid-range, but I like seeing this style.

It's fun to me. And I like the variety where you have the bucks. You have Denver, you know, you have Houston. You have the Grizzlies. They have the Grizzlies who are not scoring a lot. Dallas, you're shooting a lot of threes, like all these different styles. And I like it a lot. The game's more beautiful than ever.

But, you know, when I tweeted that, a lot of people were like, no, this is bad. You know, defense is great. People on Twitter just hate all the time. Whatever's happened, they're going to hate it. on it. That's just a reality. Wait, do we all enjoy this? I love it. I love it.

I love it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, this is fun. But the thing is... None of us dislike this. I mean, there are going to be games, and I saw this personally because I challenged myself to watch some of these Grizzlies games in which they're scoring some of the lowest scores that we've seen this season, where, you know, the Grizzlies are doing very modern things, you know, taking 40% of their shots from

three, except they're converting 27% of them. And so, you know, a lot of these. games are going to come down to this new style of a rock fight where it's not really defense. It's just neither team can make their shots. Sure. So that just I guess I don't feel this way, but to represent that perspective. Right. Some people see this and they don't care that the three pointer is worth more than two.

Like that if you shoot 25% from three. The raw percentages say that this is a poor shot because it's probably not going to go in. Exactly. It's like shooting 30% from three is equal to shooting 45%. from two. Some people just like to see shots go in. Doesn't matter if it's worth more or not. So if you're seeing teams just jack up three after three after three and they're

only hitting a third of them, to some people, that's a less appealing looking game. And I can see that point. I think, though, the thing is we're getting these fools out of the league really fast. These guys who can't shoot threes, it won't be here much long. Yeah, sure, you know, but you're still going to have players that can't shoot threes well

and they're going to have the play because their defense is so good. Or they're an elite rebounder. That's about it. other than that though Even then you still have an Andre Robertson Yeah but I don't even Play him at center maybe Even a Jonathan Williams

We saw him come in for the Lakers I'm talking like an end of a bench player At center maybe Other than that though It's just not going to cut it anymore So in other words You think these guys are going to fade away Guys who can't shoot

They're going to fade away And then it's going to come to the point Where maybe three point rate continues to rise even more Right now this season as of Thursday 34.9% nearly 35% of shots Okay, so I had an exec tell me something that I was like, dang, he said he thinks probably eventually most teams in the league will be at 45% shots from three. Like, that's probably coming like the next five years.

So he thinks, this executive thinks that every team will be shooting over 40% of their shots from three. Yeah, he thinks realists. He said probably the upper range is 55%. That is nuts. Isn't that crazy? What's his reasoning? I'm curious. I mean, I don't know how deep you went into the conversation.

I'm just like, I mean, threes are more than twos. Three things. Threes are more than twos. The more threes you shoot, the more room to attack the rim you have. And the number three, like, all these young players coming into the league are good at these shots. Like, you're not going to draft Try Young and be like, dude, get to the lane, don't shoot threes. That'd be pointless. Oh, I mean, right now, so just to give some perspective at the start of the season.

Houston, Dallas, and Milwaukee are there only three teams shooting more than 40% of their shots from three. You have 10 teams that are shooting below 30% of their shots from three. It's including a team like Golden State, right? They don't shoot very many threes, actually. They're shooting a lot of mid-range jumpers this year, actually, especially Kevin Durant, which is a trend that's continued from last year. Yes, exactly. I mean, Katie has always shot a lot of deep mid-range jumpers, but this year more than usual.

So, I mean, I just don't see every team getting to that point. See, Kevin, I think people are always like, what's the next thing? And I'm saying this thing has just started. Like, we're just getting going on this three-point thing. It is just starting. It's going to keep moving forward. It's rising every single year. It is just getting starting.

In five years, let's rebrand the big three and turn it into a little. league in which all of these, you know, misfit toys, all of these amazing low-post centers just rebrand themselves as like the big league or something. Who's going to watch that, though? Oh my God. Who knows? Everyone who is apparently complaining about the league now, you know? People love to complain.

It's going to continue rising. I mean, you look back at the 2010-11 season. It was at 22.2%. And so from then until now, it's frozen 13% percentage points. Significant. And every year, the one thing I've noticed is that it jumps. in the playoffs. And then wherever it's at in the playoffs

tends to be where it's at the following regular season. Like last year in the playoffs. That's interesting. 35.5% of the shots were from 3. This year we're at 34.9%. We'll see where that settles down. Do you got, I mean,

if every team starts shooting that way, personally, I wouldn't love that. Have every team jacking up a lot of threes? It'd be like, is every team shooting a lot of layups? It's just like a feature of basketball. I think there would still be variety within that. You know what I mean? Just the way the game was played.

Sure. Just like, you know, how we mentioned earlier with Milwaukee gets their shots differently than Houston. You know, Dallas plays a different style. Yeah, there will always be a variety. I'm waiting for the half-court specialist. For the four-point line. Who knows? See, I went over the four-point line.

That might be a little much for me. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the four-point line. Let's move on to the kids are all right. On Wednesday night, Luca Donchich and Trey Young had their battle. The first of many. Hopefully. Hopefully. Hopefully. Hopefully first of many.

Twice a year. Yeah, twice a year. after their big draft night trade, Luca Dantrich and a future pick for Trey Young between the Mavericks and the Hawks. Hawks had a really, really impressive comeback. That was a fun game to watch. I was about to tune out after the first quarter.

I mean, after the first quarter, the Mavs basically lapped them. I thought they were going to win by 50, but Hawks ended up winning the game, 11 to 104. Trey had a forgettable overall game until his impressive fourth quarter. Luca had a nice game.

21 points, nine rebounds, two assists, continued on with his really, really impressive season. Charks, you wrote a big feature on Luca this Wednesday. Do you tell us about that? Yeah, totally. I went to the first two games. I kind of got to go to the locker room after and just talk to Luca a little bit, talk to some of the other players.

It was pretty interesting. I mean, the Mavs are just all bought it on this new style of play. They got Luca. They're like, we're shooting many threes as possible. And Carlisle's like a full-on... It's crazy. Carlisle used to coach the Pistons and the Pacers in the other 2000. And now he's like, men, we're taking 53s a game.

Right, yeah. Like, that was one of the biggest takeaways I got from your feature was that Carlisle was the mastermind behind some of the worst, like, rock fight type teams in the NBA. When Dwayne Casey was an assistant coach with those sequences, yeah. And this was like at the nader of NBA offenses. It was like the worst it's ever been, but defenses were just like grinded out, everything. And now he's just like, I can't move against this wave of offense. I'm just going to write it.

Yeah, I mean, when you look at raw numbers, the Mavericks lead the league in three point attempts per game. There's not frequency, that's just raw attempts. It's fascinating to watch that. And that's not about Dirk Novitsky too. Exactly. When Dirk comes back, who knows something they're going to take?

They were near the top of the league last year as well. And in terms of Luca, we touched on him a little bit last week, I believe. But he continues to be outstanding. After his first game, after impressing in the preseason, now averaging 19 points, six and a half rebounds, nearly four assists.

Luke is doing everything And that's despite the fact that he's only 19 It's despite the fact that he's not in tip-top conditioning No, my man is grabbing his knees a lot Yeah, he definitely is And yet I think there's a lot of players Who are elite athletes in the league But there aren't a lot of players that have the elite feel

That Luca has and he has continuously Showed that off from game to game From situation to situation Really, Charks, no matter who the defender is And granted they face some weak defenses so far We'll see tonight they play the Raptors It might be a different story compared to the hawks, bulls, wolves,

and what do you think the biggest adjustments will have to be for Luca? Considering the fact he doesn't have the quickest first step, considering the fact that he certainly is grabbing at his knees. I mean, I think the big thing for him going forward is becoming like a bigger, more of a post player. I like the idea of like eventually running pick and rolls with him and Dennis Smith and just like playing Luca out of the post

on smaller guards. I think that's where he has the advantage is posting up smaller players versus like trying to beat off guys off the dribble. Yeah, and I think a lot of the negatives that people tried to pin on Luca before he was drafted was just, you know, his real inability to get past a defender in isolation. But that's not really how the Mavericks operate. They run the second least amount of isolations in the league so far behind the Sixers.

And, you know, the Mavs are all about optimizing the amount of space that Donchich has available to him and the rest of the team. When they play the Raptors and Kauai Guards Luca, well, they'll just screen Kauai and B'i on to Jordan anyways, right? Don't move off that match as much as possible. You mentioned the fit with Dennis Smith Jr. Charks and how you'd like to see those guys run pick and roll together. Is that one thing the Mavericks haven't done a lot of this year is using Luca as a screener? I mean, it has run a handful of pick and roll,

but are you saying you would like to see Dennis Smith screening for Luca or Luca screening for Dennis Smith? Or does it not really matter? I think it's like it's so early in both their careers. They're trying to establish a basis. right now. That might not happen until next season, honestly. Why does it have to wait? I want to see it now. I want it right now, Charks. I want it now. They need

to develop good habits, you know? Like, that's all part of it is like, here's the basic responsibility to position for like a two creative. I mean, they're both like 20 years old. You know what bothers me? I would love to see Luca Donchich. Like, I mentioned he's averaging 3.8 assists. That guy already is an unbelievable passer. I want to see

a big, you know, an opportunity for him to really just handle the ball and run the entire offense. Well, so here's the thing right now with that, Mavs don't actually have a lot of shooting right now. They take a lot of threes. They don't make that many of them. So it's hard to get assists with Wesley Matthews taking like 10 threes a game. Yeah, I mentioned they're shooting 42.5, 3-pointers per game.

They're also just shooting only 31.8% on those 3-4%. And they're only examples. 25th and 3-point percentage first and intense. But you know what that's better than jacking up a lot of mid-range jumpers? It's true. But I mean, how much more can we take of West Matthews? Oh, yeah. We have a jump in the press room.

And we're like, if he dribbles, this ball going to go in, it's like, probably not. One of the things of Buka, and I'm not saying this is a concern, I think he's going to be fine. He's going to be great. But he does take a lot of tough shots. A lot of those tough makes he has are tough shots. And it's been against some poor defenders. And this, to me, is going to be the really interesting thing to track for him over the course of this whole season and, you know, into next year his whole career. How does he develop over time in terms of making his first,

step even quicker, getting an optimal condition. How does that evolve for him? Is he going to be a type of guy who always has to make tough shots, or is he going to get to a point where suddenly he's able to create more open looks for him besides that step back to his left, which is suddenly quickly becoming like a patented shot for him? Signature move, yeah. It is. And it looks great.

And it's fairly effective, at least for a 19-year-old. I think you're fine with the results. I'm curious to see how that happens for him. And if not, it's okay because he doesn't need to be necessarily your go-to-score. presence because, like I mentioned earlier, this guy's already an unbelievable passer. We haven't seen the opportunity for him to do that. Do you think that there's

a chance that happens this year, Charks, or no, because of the way the roster is constructed and the fact he's only 19? We'll see when Barnes and Dirk get back, because this team might look pretty different. Barnes was their top score the last two years, and Dirk obviously changes. I mean, if you put Luka with Dirk at the pick and roll, he'll get a lot

more space to operate, probably. Those guys coming back is going to make that team look totally different, whereas for the Hawks, And Trey Young, he is already getting virtually all of the opportunity. Is John Collins back yet for the Hawks? Not yet. No. That'll be big for them.

Yeah, definitely giving Trey another pick and roll rolling option. Collins also could be spotting it from three a little bit, too. Yeah, I mean, he definitely showed the interest in taking shots from that range last year. It's sometimes it's all it takes. Andre Drummond has a lot of interest in shooting threes, and he is shooting them. He's just not making them. It's okay, though. It's interested in a lot of field goal attempts.

Yeah, and at the same time, I think Colin's, Collins was shooting them, albeit at only like a three a game, he was still shooting it at like 36, 37%. So another target for Trey who I think has been really outstanding this year as a playmaker. It's very rare you see a point guard come in

at his age with his experience level and change pace like he does and create off the dribble like he does and like he doesn't have the best teammates, but he's creating quality looks for him on his 30 assists this season. 20 of them have gone to shots in the restricted area.

10 have been for three-pointers. It's an analytically driven assist from Trey Young. Yeah, Kevin, I was going to ask you, like how many guys can shoot pull-up threes better than Trey are already in the league? Not a lot. That's a fun question. Not a lot.

I mean, he still shot, I believe, someone at cleaning the glass in an article about Trey's shooting off the dribble from NBA range. I think it was like he shot like me, 27% on off-the-dribble threes from NBA range, which isn't great. But it's still better. Last year in college.

That's still better than a lot of guys in the NBA. That's where, like, look, Tray is always going to have a role in the league because of his playmaking, which has been underrated and overlooked, I think, by a lot of fans who just saw the big scoring numbers. But his playmaking, to me, is his best skill. The scoring, as that develops, charts, over time, I think, we've seen both sides of that. We saw the 35-point outing against Cleveland. We saw him struggle last night against the Dallas Mavericks. He's going to be.

And, Danny, that's going to be part of it the season with Trey, where I think we need to be patient with his offensive development. Yeah, and even the game against the Mavs was a positive sign because even when his shot wasn't falling, the dude got to the line nine times in the fourth quarter. He finds ways, and especially because the Hawks have, like the Mavs, built their entire team around trying to get this guys in as much space as possible. Absolutely, you know, the spacing Atlanta is playing with helps Trey Young.

I think the way the game is being played helps Trey. One of the things I wrote about in my article for today on the Ringer about Trey is that I think he's gotten better at getting to the basket and actually finishing at the basket. One of the things at Oklahoma, he didn't have a lot of creative finishes and that's something Steph Curry over time

has just mastered. He became an elite finisher, you know, off-balance finishes, leaning his hip into the defender to finish with his left hand, finishing off the wrong foot. Trey's doing a little bit more of that now than he did in college

and like he had a great lefty finish last night. And it helps to play in more space too. Absolutely. Oh, you wouldn't have very many offensive talents besides Trey. There's one-man team. I think they had a lot of talents for like REC League. Not even a overseas. No, I mean, I'm not.

I'm just saying like they didn't have like... Shout out Long Kruger. They didn't have like a lot of professional talents on the team. No, not a lot of NBA players, yeah. One of the things that applies to both Luca and Trey Young is these guys stink on defense right now. Both of them. For sure. Definitely.

Both of them. It's just reality. Like Trey Young last night getting posted up by Dennis Smith, getting into fall trouble, Luca Dantcher's just moving him with ease. And then Luca, yeah, not that. too good on defense so far this year either. No. Moving forward for Trey,

defense is always going to be problematic because he's small. He's six foot flat without shoes, short wingspan, tiny frame, about the same size as like a Darren Callison and Kemba Walker. Defense is an issue for a lot of small point guards.

And for him, I think for the Hawks, if they ever become a contender, that's always going to be the question. Where do you hide Trey Young? And for Luca, can he get to the point? Have you seen signs charts?

Have you seen any signs from Luca Dantzsche's that he can become a plus defender or at least a non-negative defender that he's not getting him picked on possession after possession? I seen him standing in the locker room, so that's a sign like his size. He doesn't do anything yet in the NBA, but I think the size eventually should translate,

but it won't happen for a while. You know, there was that play in the preseason where he showed really good, you know, weak side timing, caught a nice block down in the paint. I thought his instincts in the EuroLeague were fine. It's just a matter of kind of getting himself in the right, shape and getting himself in the right, you know, mental attitude. I mean, he's not afraid to mix it up for sure.

Right. No good physical. No doubt. And I think that's where with Luca Donchard's pre-drafts, you know, I wasn't too worried about it. He's, first of all, he's a great rebounder. So I think he's going to be able to help end possessions for you by rebounding the ball and then going coast to coast, turning defense into offense. But he also competes, like you said.

He's not afraid to mix it up. You know, he's willing to switch and battle through screens. I don't think effort is going to ever be an issue for him. He's the type of a guy who is probably going to be willing. Once he gets in the shape. least once he gets in the shape. One thing I wanted to note, if you go and click on Charks' feature on Luca, there's wonderful art by our art director, David Shoemaker.

Shout out the Shoemaker. And shout out to Matt James. If you look at his, if you look at the art, the profile image of his face, it is probably the worst possible image we could have chosen because he looks so, so chubby in it. Like, his cheeks are like swollen and it's just like, okay. Yeah, I just hope he looks pretty fat. Yeah, his mouth is open. And I mean, like, over the off season, he was, you know, training in compression shirts and

hoodies. He was clearly not ready to show off his beach bod. He still does that in mass practice. He's always rocking a hoodie. That's like me. Well, like he's pulling a Carmella. That's like me back in the day. Like, I would just always wear a T-shirt to the pool or something like that.

They don't want to show up the belly. Yeah, you know. I never want to show that. But, I mean, a year or two down the line, I think that's one will really kind of see if the Strength and conditioning program that he's being put through will, you know, pay dividends. And I'm sure he'll need you, Chandler Parsons here. Look, I mean, he's going to be doing probably P3 up in Santa Barbara every summer.

He has been a professional. The past three years. Yes. He's going to have professional training with the Dallas Mavericks, which you hit on Charks in the article. He's going to be able to maximize his conditioning. I think people can joke all they want about, you know, his chubbiness right now. It doesn't matter.

Where he is at 19 isn't going to be where he's at 25. So over time, Luke is going to be fine. Yeah, Trey, though, there's. There's no way to stretch him out. Can't stretch him out. It's true. I can't stretch him out. He needs to become a transcendent offensive talent.

But the return so far is pretty encouraging for both those guys. Let's move on to throw an outlet pass to this weekend. Some marquee games happening across the league. Lakers' spurs, get an immediate rematch of this exciting, crazy, intense. A clash of two of the worst defenses in the league. Yes. That means a lot of points. Yes.

From two different teams. And that's saying something in the NBA these days. Yeah. That's really bad defense. The Spurs are the worst team by defensive rating in the league right now. I think they're giving up 122 points per 100 possessions. Yes, and the Lakers are giving up 115 points for 100 possessions. Which, if look at the personnel, it's not a surprise.

It's both. Right. It really isn't, which made last season Spurs defense so unbelievable. And when I say unbelievable, I mean, yes, like a miracle. It makes you appreciate DeJante Murray when it does. Yeah. Yeah, that would have made the Spurs a heck of a lot more interesting this year. The Spurs last season gave up 104 points per one.

Her possessions, which ranked fourth in the NBA this year, ranking 30th, like Danny said. What's wrong with their defense? Is it really just a matter of the personnel is just bad, Danny? Yeah, I had made a joke about this on the worst picks for the NBA Paloosa thing. The Spurs basically don't have a single above-average defender. Yeah, who's their best defender on the roster? And you're looking at it and you're like...

Might be Dante Cunningham. It might much earlier. Maybe it's Jakop Pertil, but he's barely playing. No. He's barely getting any minutes. He was a DNP coach's decision in the Lakers. I was thinking about talking to him after the game, and I was like, wait, he didn't even play.

Right. I mean, like, you didn't really occur during the game. It's like the Yacob hurdle didn't play. Which is so funny because, like, Lamarcus is a five. So where's he going to play? Yeah, especially in that game with the Lakers playing small, with Kuzmant the five often or LeBron of the five, which Kuzmet the five has not worked very well for the Lakers so far this season.

They're giving up a lot of points this year. I think the stat pulled it up earlier or something around maybe 130 points per. or won her possessions with Coosma at the 5. It's horrible. And that's kind of why the whole Jonathan Williams' revelation was so eye-opening. You know, he had his coming out party against the spurs. And that just kind of shows you how important it is to have a mobile guy who can protect the right. Just a body, you know?

Just a body out there. Like when you have Kuzma and LeBron who are, you know, ostensibly, oh, they can be small-ball fives for the Lakers, sure. But they have so much responsibilities on the offensive end. Like, you really can't trust them to anchor. your defense. Charks, for the listeners who have no idea who Jonathan Williams is, can you give a brief little rundown about his game? Yeah, so he's like a six, nine, pretty athletic big man. He played at Gonzaga. He was a fifth year senior, so he's pretty old. I think he's like 20 to 24 years old. He can't really shoot, but he's very athletic. He plays hard. He runs to the

rim. I mean, he's not like the most skill guy in the world, but he can play his position. He's an older player. I can see him playing a lot this season, honestly. Right. One of the things I am excited about with the Spurs this year, despite everything, despite the Jean Murray going out, despite Derek White going out, that has meant that DeRosen is going to get more playmaking opportunity. 14 assists. That's crazy. 14 assists in that Lakers game. Demar is somebody who, last year with Toronto, with their evolved offense under Dwayne Casey, started to handle the ball more. He got more playmaking chances, and he did pretty solid. I think he did a good job. And I'm excited to see how he evolves this year with San Antonio within their system. If he can't elevate his play even more, maybe it helps them long term. for DeRosan to get these chances because he might be, you know, in his late 20s,

but he's not done getting better necessarily. Right. And he usually added to his game a lot over his career. It's kind of impressive. You know, the narrative last year was, oh, he added a three-point shot. And, you know, narratives can mean a lot, especially, you know, in his perception around the league. What happened was he started taking these threes, defenses started having to respect it. And all of the times when defenses were expecting him to do, you know, a mid-range pull-up or whatever,

there was suddenly an opening. There was suddenly a passing lane for him to connect with, you know, a guy like Pascal Seacum or Yacquipurdle. So you put him in these new situations and suddenly you're looking at a completely different playmaker. And I'm curious, what do you guys think, Charks? What do you think about these Lakers minus Rajan Rano and Brennan? Me personally, like, I'm enjoying watching the team because we're getting opportunities to see these new guys, Sveh McAuluk getting playing time, Jonathan Williams getting playing time.

Josh Hart back in the starting lineup and Wednesday night. its game against the Phoenix Suns, Lakers' first win of the season over Contavius Caldwell Pope. Lanzo ball in the starting lineup, I think for the Lakers these long-term changes could actually be good that the suspension for Rajan Rondo and Renanagan

could actually open the door for maybe positive changes their overall roster charts. For sure, I think like them losing earlier, they have to ask themselves quickly who are they going to be. You got to play your best players and to me, you got to go LeBron and the young guys. Like the meme team, they're not going to work. The meme team. We're done with it.

Yes. We're done with it already. One weekend it's over. Yeah, I mean, we can have Lance Stevenson kind of crush on, you know, these terrible teams. Sure, he's basically eating innings at that point. But, like, for these consequential games, they need to trust their young guys because their young guys have the most talent. Speaking about trusting young guys, the Utah Jazz, faced the pelicans this weekend. Donovan Mitchell had a actually most impressive night of the season for him. Yeah, 38 points on 25 shots, seven assists.

to three turnovers and a Utah 100 to 89 win over the Rockets on Wednesday night. Mitchell seemed to figure it out. He said after the game that he was a little bit tense in the first couple games. He was in his own head. Yeah, in his own head and now he's calmed down. He's chilled out, Danny. Did he figure it out, Danny?

It was a lot of, you know, he finally hit the shots that we were accustomed seeing him hit last year. Those tough attempts. Yeah, there were a lot of tough attempts early this season that didn't go in and you know, it was a lot of the the product of the jazz kind of figuring out who they are in this season, because they're really pushing the pace.

And, you know, it's really helped Joe Ingalls, who has become basically their best player. The great Joe Ingalls, who also looks like an NBA player. But yeah. Sorry, Chris Vernon. What I'm interested in in this game is just how Gobert continues to handle this type of game, handle this type of pace. Especially against Anthony Davis, who probably the best player in the NBA so far this season.

Yeah, I mean, he's playing in all the space. with Mirage to the 4. It'll be tough for Gobert. Gobert in favors. It'll be hard from the match up with those guys. I just don't think we have enough of a sample

with the Jazz. They've played kind of both ways. So they've had two games in which they've played at above average pace and they've had two games where it was just like really slow

in the 95 possession games. They split both of them. So they're two and two. So they're two and slow now, isn't it? Right? Right. So I just think that the one thing that the jazz can't do

really is stick with this Go Bear favors front line for much longer. Favors is probably the guy that takes a backseat than Charks. Well, for sure. For sure. But they got to find a four, though. I guess it's Jay Crowder. How soon until the conversation really gets started is Anthony Davis

the best player in the NBA? Let's started. I think he's awesome. Yeah, we could have this discussion right now. Is he? He's up there. Right now at this moment. Like you need longevity, you need to do it over a period of time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But right now, at this moment, is he the best player in the league? I'm a hedge and say no. playing in this space he could be as maybe the most impactful player yeah

I'll say it who's better Danny I'm a ride with my my guy KD but I don't feel I don't feel great about either answer I think it's Anthony Davis AD is the most valuable I think yeah I think AD is the best player in the league right now

LeBron's like not going full speed at the moment AD's not I mean look at his numbers dude 30 points on 59% shooting are you kidding me 13 boards 5 assists 3 blocks 2 blocks 2 deals? And like, you know, even if even if you just like throw the numbers away and like just

turn on like the TV. If you like, if you don't know anything about the league, like you woke up from a coma of 20 years and you're finding out about basketball for the first time. You don't know about basketball reference because you don't know that the internet is all this cool stuff now. And you turn on your TV. You're seeing AD. This guy is six foot 10, big, strong, shooting threes, passing the ball, moving around on

the perimeter to inside, blocking shots. from the weak side, rebounding, running pick and roll, posting up, you're like, this dude does everything because he does do everything.

Doing castor motor oil ads. Yeah, he does it all. He does it all. I think, too, like if I'm New Orleans, and I get in a playoff series and anybody at the Warriors,

I'm like, I got Anthony Davis. None of their teams in the West can guard him, right, but I'm feeling pretty confident going to the playoffs

with Anthony Davis in my team. You know, you mentioned the three blocks per game charts, you know, also has two steals per game. That's outstanding, right? But, like, there's so few guys.

Like, we're talking about Gobert, right? Run him off the floor, you know, have him all on the perimeter. That's not a question with AD. Just not. Adi's guy who runs Gobert off the floor. He's the other way. Yeah, he's the one who's running Gobert off floor. Yeah, he does, but, like, he can't get run off the floor.

No, absolutely not. No matter who he's defending, whether it's a smaller guy on a switch or a big guy who can stretch a floor, AD can defend anybody in the league. And here's the other thing, too, like, anybody defend him? Like, who can really defend Anthony Davis? Nobody. Nobody, especially with all the spacing now that you mentioned. I mean, his own body can.

Like, really, we're only looking at injuries. That's literally it. That's the only thing with AD, and he's been pretty healthy the past two seasons for the most part. Yeah, he has been. He's got those bigger, got a little stronger, filled out. That's becoming a little bit less of a concern, but, like, still, it's in the back of my mind, too, Danny. Overall, though, that Pelicans roster, and I'm excited to see it on this weekend. The way they spaced the floor for AD, it turned out to be a blessing in disguise that DeMarcus cousins got hurt.

It allowed their team. Yeah, for sure. To play the way that they're playing now at a faster pace with more speed, more shooting. It's exciting to watch, and yet they still retain that versatility to play with two jumbo bigs if they want. And KOC too, like, he's only 25. The other big guys in the league are all older than him. He's just starting his prime right now. It's unbelievable.

He's just getting better and better every single year. One team that's also getting better this year, the Detroit Pistons under Dwayne Casey. They're off to a great start with Blake Griffin. They face the Celtics this weekend, who are off to a very strong. slow start on the offensive end of the floor. They still lead the league in defensive rating, but their offense has sputtered this year. Charks, you and I have both written about this. I wrote up as one of the first articles I wrote for the ringer when I got hired in 2016.

It was like, I want to see Point Blake. You've talked about that and written about that before as well. And I feel like we're kind of starting to see that, aren't we, with this Pistons team? I mean, it's better point blank to point Reggie, I think. Yeah, like who's really stopping him, really? Nobody. Nobody should stop. Blake is one of the better passing big men of the century. one of the better ball handling

big men of the century as well. So it's nice to see him getting those opportunities this year averaging 5.7 assists that's not out of the ordinary but he's getting more ball handling chances, more pick and roll chances. He's just being used like a

star player for a like a guard. The thing I'm curious about is I guess Jalen Brown guards Blake Griffin. I don't know. I think Celtics probably go big in this game with Drummond and Blake in the front court maybe it's

Baines if he's back, which he might not be. I believe in tonight's scheme they said he's 50-50 to play. So maybe he doesn't play this weekend against Detroit either. But yeah, you know what? Charg's like it could turn out where if the Celtics don't play big, they end up going small.

And they force maybe Detroit to take Drummond off the floor. Maybe he's the guy you're pushing off the floor. You're making Detroit play small. Maybe you're having them go with Stanley Johnson at the four. But even then, I think Horford would still end up being the guy who defends Blake. Yeah. Interesting. So what's going on with the Celtics?

Shooting a lot of mid-range jumpers, Danny. A lot of mid-range jumpers. especially early in the clock of noticed. They've always been a team that isn't afraid of shooting mid-range jumpers, but this year they're taking the fourth most deep mid-range jumpers according to cleaning glass.com, and that's coming early in the clock, too. Their three-point numbers are down as well,

shooting only 31.2% from three so far this season. It's just odd. I'm not sure if it's chemistry or what it is, but so far the season, there's just something off with this team. And the first thing that always comes in mind is, why are they shooting mid-range jumpers early in the clock, whether it's Hayward running across screens. Tatum pull-ups, Kyrie pull-ups, just a lot of mid-range.

Seems like a feeling out process. One thing that I've been monitoring with the Saltix is basically looking at their usage rate. Everyone's usage rate from last season, except for Jason Tatum's, has actually gone down. And so it's really just looking at how they all fit together and how this team that we all thought was just this seamless, kind of like amorphous blob of excellence kind of comes together. you know, when they're trying to incorporate two stars who were very much high usage players in past life. How would they look, Kevin, you think? Gordon and Kyrie.

Kyrie's been awful. Yeah, Kyri put up pretty nice numbers against Orlando, but watching the game, it didn't feel like it. Right. I do think there's a feeling out process between the players, but also for the individuals, for Kyrie getting back into, quote-unquote, basketball shape. For Gordon Hayward figuring things out,

it's interesting. It certainly is. I'm a little bit surprised that we've seen Tatum featured so much early on. I don't want to say surprise as much as I didn't think it would come so soon. Right. Right.

I thought there would be a little bit more force feeding to Hayward and Kyrie than there actually has been. I wouldn't worry too much about the Celtics. I wouldn't panic one bit. I think their defense is still elite. Still good. That's their foundation

and it has been for years. I think the offense will figure itself out over the first time. There's too much talent on this team. not to. 30th in offense, first and defense. I wish we could see.

Great combo. You know, that really works in this modern NBA. I wish we could react to Thursday, and that's interesting to watch.

And granted. It's an easy team to guard, that's for sure. Easy team to guard with no shooters in their roster. Well, I'm excited for these games this weekend,

but that's all we have time for today, guys. That was fun. It was great. Danny, John, looking forward to next Friday. Thank you all. Absolutely.

Definitely. And thank you for listening to The Corner 3. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes and tell your friends and family about the show. That would make us so, so happy. Special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing the podcast and to my good friend Elon for listening to the show. Thank you again for listening. On Monday, John Gonzalez will be back with a new episode of Heat Check and I'll be joining Chris Vernon on Tuesday for The Mismatch. Until then, hope you have a beautiful weekend.