The Ringer NBA Show - The Thunder Out-Pacer the Pacers to Tie the Finals | Group Chat

Episode Date: June 14, 2025

Justin and Rob are joined by Tyler Parker to recap the Thunder pulling off their own shocking comeback to tie the series 2-2. They discuss SGA’s excellent fourth quarter, Jalen Williams’s and Chet’s major contributions, and much more. Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Guest: Tyler Parker Producers: Isaiah Blakely, John Richter, Victoria Valencia and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat and a special hello and welcome to our friends on YouTube. We got Rob Mahoney. We got the Oki in the house, Tyler Parker. And you came at the perfect time because what the fuck just happened? The NBA finals is tied because the Thunder just stole that game four from the Pacers in a very Pacers way. No, as I told you, I am sweating. I am still vibrating, I think. If Cruz, if y'all are picking up some Homs on the other end, that's just me.

Yeah, man, the Pacers got pastored. I don't even know what to do with myself. To be honest with you, I was really thinking a lot during this game, like, man, I'm really not looking forward to going on this live stream after the game. And I, what a sweat. I know what it feels like to be a pastry fan now. This is amazing. This episode is brought to you by State Farm on the basketball,

court the best players know when to pass and off the court you still need teammates who are there when it counts. That's where State Farm comes in. With agents and online tools to help you find the coverage you need, you could focus on what really matters, whether that's hitting game winners or just getting through the day. State Farm with the assist coverage options are selected by the customer, availability and eligibility vary by state. We needed to do a wellness check on Tyler just to start this podcast. Rob, how is your heart right now? Are you having palpitations after this one? No, I'm cool as a cucumber.

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just bobbing and weaving myself, looking for a little contact and then trying to figure it out. Well, if I could be a little precious with this, uh, it did feel like the way that the thunder took this game back was particularly thundery. You know, the Pacers had had these triumphant

comebacks throughout the postseason, just doing it their way, the crisp, high octane offense, Tyler. But this was really just like brute force. And more than anything, it was Shea Gilder's Alexander. Shee, I mean, they threw that stat up, or Brings said the stat at one point, Indies 9 and 1 in clutch games this postseason. Shea tonight outscores them 14 to 7 in clutch time himself.

Jesus. And to do that after, I mean, he's the entire, he's the entire focus of the defense, right? the rest of the team is giving him absolutely no space to operate. They hit only three threes tonight. How many times in the NBA in the past, like, I don't know, five years has a team won any game making three threes. You know what, Tyler, I'm so glad you asked that exact question. Here's my prompt for the two of you.

When was the last time any team won any game with three threes or fewer and 10 assists or fewer? Because really, Indies' defense cut off. the water on the assist too. When do you think was the last time that happened? I didn't know we had access to Mahoney stats and information over here. This is beautiful. I love it. I'm plugged into the Matrix tonight.

Like, we're just feeding it straight from source. It's incredible to see you in finals form, Rob, honestly. Thank you. But give us those two numbers again. So as a team, 10 assists or fewer and three made three pointers are fewer. And they won, winning any game at any time in any season. It's the exact opposite of the like the formula. winning a modern basketball game.

I know. It's incredible. It's incredible. A Kobe Lakers team was a 20... Not quite that far back. A 2015 regular season game that the Hornets

led by Michael Kiddickick and Brian Roberts beat the Knicks in like the low 70s. That was the extent of that game. I think that's what's crazy about this one is like those two stats are true. That's what the Thunder did in this game. This was still like a really high level basketball game. This felt like great basketball all the way.

through it felt like teams struggling and finding their way and needing to to improvise and double down on their identities at times and being drifted drifted from their identities at times but this didn't feel like Charlotte Hornets regular season basketball this felt like a thunder team that honestly if we're being totally honest about it I don't know that any other team in recent memory could win a playoff game in this sort of fashion where Tyler you mentioned the Shea closing out in crunch time but just as important is the seven points being allowed for the Pacers in crunch time like shutting them down in the fashion that they did was so crucial. Oh my God.

I mean, you've got, you've got, get getting pulled into ISOs three different times in the last, whatever, minute and a half, and he holds up all three times. Yep.

Gets good contests on all three of them. I mean, I think what two of them are with Halliburton and one of them's with Nymard. My brain is jelly right now. But, so that's probably wrong. But,

yeah, I mean, for as much, the rest of the team did not go up beyond the arc to have Chet go for the double double and play so well down the stretch. He's got those two big follows. He's got that huge follow don't play. You've got Caruso going for 20, and it felt like the first 15 of those are happening at parts where it feels like the game might get out of hand. He's got a big he's a big three, I think early fourth. It's the leads nine.

he cuts it to six. Like, just these, he is that fade away at the start of the fourth off the dribble. And it's like, what's, I, what is, what's, I don't, I don't even know what game I'm watching at that point, right? Like, you know, Jalen goes for 27 after, you know, having a lot of suspect, not a lot of suspect games in this playoffs, but definitely some, right? And it's been amazing to see him bounce back after some of these lackluster performances. This has happened every single series.

where at a certain point, his back against the wall, he shows up. It was just, yeah, I can't say enough and I'm talking too much. No, no.

Well, we get it because this was pretty much a different game up until about 10 minutes before we started this podcast. I think we were ready to sing the praises of the Pacers. They played just remarkable.

This entire game, especially on defense. We'll talk about that eventually. But, Rob, if you were to consult the Elias Sports Bureau for a second, Like what would you say is like the number one thing that changed late in the game? Was it Shay taking over?

Was it defense? Like if you're just saying number one, what's your first thought? I think it's Shay taking over. And within that, I think the broader approach where it seemed like the thunder were trying to play a longer game. Like this is the methodology behind changing the starting lineup. They went big to Casey Wallace out of the starting lineup. I don't love that decision personally. It didn't work great.

It led to the most explosive Indiana Pacers start of this entire series. but the trade-off part of that package is okay Shea who historically plays the entire first quarter comes out about midway through. They're trying to parcel his minutes out differently. He's clearly less aggressive in terms of hunting his own offense in the first half. He's obviously being hounded by Andrew Nemhart at every step

being denied the ball. It's tough being Shade, Guilges Alexander in the series, but you could see him sort of biting his time. I'm guilty in the third quarter of wondering, was that a mistake? Like did he kind of wait too long? long to get started and then here he comes in the fourth quarter delivering everything that the thunder would hope for him to deliver, delivering on every bit of that game plan.

Like I think the rotations were reoriented in a way where, you know, the thunder are not a team that are just going to consolidate minutes and trim all of the role players out of the rotation and play their key guys 40. Like it's just not really in their DNA. It's not how they operate. But this they can do. Reorient things, reprioritize their energy. Make it so that at the end of the game, Shay isn't dog exhausted in the way that he

was in some of the first three games of this series by the end of them. And he has this kind of closing kick in him. Yeah, Tyler, we've been talking this entire season pretty much about on using their bench, using different combinations to get into situations like this. We saw them start game one with a different starting lineup. That seemed a little aggressive, but it almost felt of a piece with everything we've known about the thunder. This one felt particularly aggressive to the point where everything Rob said, where they

pull Shea early. But like, toward the end of that first quarter, they basically did a line shape. outside of Kason Wallace, were they sub four guys in en masse? You saw J-dub handling the ball for better or worse at times. What did you think about that just overall and then maybe the dividends it paid later on?

I mean, it is, it shouldn't be surprising to me at this point, just because I've watched Dagnon coach for several years at this point, right? But this is a... This is a madman. Yeah, like, this is a

madman. Like, this is a guy who, is not afraid to change something up in massive moments. He's been that way this whole time. They tinker throughout the season, like y'all said, with different lineups. I agreed that it was a little aggressive to start the series with Payson lineup as much as I'm a Kaysen, like, devotee.

But it was one of those things whenever everybody was up in ours about it. I'm like, you know, Payson started 48 games this year, I think it was. It's not someone, coming in that hasn't had, you know, any time in the starting lineup. And so in the rest of the lineup is used to, you know, Aaron Wiggins goes from, he scores whatever he did,

19 in game two, right? He only gets 10 minutes in game three. Tonight he gets to play a little bit more. I can't remember what the final minute count was. But like these guys are just used to being on their toes and knowing that there's a possibility they're going to have to go in. And I think you're exactly right that. like if you look at the beginning of that fourth quarter,

Caruso gets the inbound and goes coast to coast, and I think hits that layup or hits that fadeaway that I mentioned earlier. And it just looked like he had more turbo reserves than the rest of the guys on the floor. And part of that is just that he hasn't had to play as many minutes. And then the other part of it is just like he has a motor that won't quit, right? And so he's a lunatic himself. So, but yeah, I, I think it was another example of the thunder not being afraid to tap anyone in a gigantic moment.

You know what I mean? I mean, when they play tonight, nine guys? I think they were 10. Do they go 10? Yeah, they got 10. Joe had five, the stereotypical Joe five minutes and gets pulled. But, you know, that was more than last game. It's either

it's either Joe gets more minutes than Wiggins and Wiggins doesn't play or the opposite. Like they, it just depends on how they shake out. Totally. But I think you're right, Tyler, that it's almost in some ways like,

Casey Wallace and Isaiah Hardenstein, there's the question of who starts and how you want to construct the lineups. But really it's a false choice because the answer is Alex Caruso. He's going to play most of the minutes that actually matter. And, yeah,

those plays are huge. Like his willingness to take shots. like that is really important. And I thought one of the clearest, this team talked about this in film and came out with like a different disposition on it, elements of this game, was Alex Crusoe looking to drive. It would like, Indiana

just did not respect him going to the basket at all. They didn't really treat it as a as a realistic possibility in game three. They just like, we're not guarding it. And then all of a sudden you could see every kind of handoff, every exchange, every time he caught on the perimeter, he was looking to get to the basket. And when that happens, yes, he's getting layups.

He's also spraying out to other guys or dumping off to other players to finish inside. Like that added a really important element to get the Thunder through the first three quarters of this game. Yeah, Tyler, give us the dossier on Alex Caruso from the Thunder fan perspective because he starts from like above because he's better than Josh Kitty. He isn't Josh Kitty.

And so he's probably endeared to the fans more than what he is able to play closing minutes in a massive playoff game. So imagine that. He was a little shaky regular season. The shooting wasn't there. He was for sure as he typically is. You weren't sure like if that would carry into the. the postseason. Obviously, that hasn't been the case. He's just been absolutely bulletproof,

probably one of the best playoff players who were doing like a three deep all NBA, like all postseason team. He would certainly be probably third or second team at this point. What's it just been like watching him at this point? Like if, if you were to rank like the Thunder players you believe in are going to show up in crucial moments, is he like two? He's way up there. I would have to think, that's a good question. I'd have to think about my ranking. But he like he is. he's been, you know, I mean, all the cliches, everything you can want him more. I mean, from the jump when they got him, it seemed like, okay, this is amazing.

This directly addresses a need and gets rid of a weakness all at the same time. And it's also, I think, big for the thunder to have a guy like Caruso, who is going to be okay, only playing 10 minutes some night. You know what I mean? Like, to be able to remove the ego. in those situations and know there's a longer game. Know that, I mean, he had a quote after game who, that I think Pina used in his great feature on, or his great profile on, on Caruso.

But he was basically like, you know, I don't, I play a pretty erratic style and I don't, I can't play like this every night. You know, it's just not, it's not possible. And so that they're able to, they were able to kind of have a long game in mind with him this season has been massive. And yeah, the shot turning around in the playoffs has been incredible. But no, I thought as intentional as they were about going after,

that the Pacers were about going after Shay trying to tire him down, I thought of the Thunder were pretty intentional about trying to get Halliburton into actions and definitely drive us. Like, they tried to have Caruso or they try to have, you know, him on someone like Caruso or Cason or whatever. The first possession of the game, you know, they're attacking Halliburton right off the bat. And so I think they're, they're, both teams are employing similar strategies to try to,

um, you know, skip away at the engine of the team, you know? Totally. I think you can see it in the, in the perimeter defense especially. Like the guys like Caruso and Lou Doord are bringing like the, really the difference in this game for the Thunder for the Thunder and like the way they leveled up defensively by the end of it was they went from getting caught in the

blender of everything the Pacers were running in the first quarter just like could not stay out of it could not stay out of rotation and I thought by Thunder standards were just like weirdly undisciplined like helping off the strong side corner like giving up just terrible shots like the Thunder are gonna give a corner to like

cheating a little bit too much over a little bit too much sometimes like not like Caruso who talked to would talk about I was having like proper respect for the offense and stuff like that and how sometimes, you know, you can venture into, I can get away with anything. And it felt like a couple of those moments happened tonight where he's helping off that strong sign quarter and then Halliburton, you know, looks one way and throws it to

Topin in the corner or whatever, you know. Like the next time Toppin misses a shot, I will be, I will get down on my knees and, you know, sing a hymn for no less. than 10 minutes. This guy's been unbelievable. That's not what we're talking about, but I did want to make sure and give him a shout out because he's been incredible. And defensively, he's been working too. I just, I can't believe it. Definitely. Yeah, we're going to get to some of these other guys later on. I want to do kind of like

a playoff made men list to see like who got minted off of this game in particular, but also in the postseason overall. But we should talk about the Pacers. Just because going into this podcast, Rob, I thought we would be just extolling the virtues of this defense. They made. made Shea looked like he had just like woken up from a nap. He just didn't have that extra umph throughout the game in part

because Nemhart was clinging to him like a goddamn koala for most of this game. And so it's so weird because I almost want to be like holy shit the Pacer's defense, the one aspect of the team that had been derided even in the best of times in this regular season, maybe by me, but like we're not going to

cast aspersions or anything like that. But it showed up in a big way. Just like down the stretch, just something happened. Like obviously give credit to the Thunder. But I thought Seacom, what third was Seacom who played a masterful game, but seemed like he kind of drifted away,

or maybe the Pacer drifted away from him. He didn't score at all in that fourth quarter. If you were to look at this from the other side, do you think that was like the biggest flaw of the Pacers down the stretch? I think it was some of it. But a lot of that, again, these are all related things. Part of the reason they weren't going to Seacom as much down the stretch is because I thought the Thunder did a great job

of controlling some of the mismatches that Seacom was exploiting. like all the easy stuff that he was feeding on early in the game, they were shutting down. And so then all of a sudden, Indy started looking to other places. Like, we're not going to just post-Yacom against Smalls. Like,

that's not really as available to us. Those passes are getting disrupted. Let's bring Chet up. You know, like, let's try to get something else into the action. Let's try to run something that's a little bit different to create here.

And that didn't really work out for them either. So, like, I think ultimately it's one of those things where the Thunder defense is nudging the Pacers in these directions, but they were really rocked off their axis in terms of their. execution. They were really thrown off by the level of precision that Oklahoma City was playing

with by the end of this game. Obviously, the ball pressure is always going to be a tough thing for them. You know, we are lovers of team basketball around here, but sometimes the shit does come down to like, you just have to do this one-on-one. And to be totally honest with you, Shea, by the end of it, was the best one-on-one player in this game, and J-dub was the second best one-on-one player in this game in terms of creation. And the result of that is you don't get any threes and you don't get any of those assists like we talked about. But if those two guys are this good and the Thunder defense is this good, it's going to overcome even a very good Pacers game.

Like this was a very good Pacers game up until the moment. Like their offense was a little laggy in the fourth. But other than that, they played really well. The NBA finals are here. It all comes down to this. And Fandul's turning the excitement up even more with an all-customer profit boost for every game of the series. As if you needed another reason to root for a game seven.

Use your profit boost to bet which team will win, who's going to drop 30, or you can build a parlay for a shot at an even bigger payday. If your bet wins, you'll win even bigger. And then you could do it all again the next game. If you don't already have Fandual, it's not too late to get in on the action. Just visit Fandul.com slash Ringer MBA to join today. That's fandul.com slash ringer MBA to claim your profit boost for each and every game, this NBA finals, make every moment more with Fandul, the official sports betting partner of the NBA.

Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Optin required bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens, restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportscom gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Yeah, Tyler, it almost felt like the game finally devolved into what we've known, like, is the hard and fast rule with basketball in the playoffs for like, throughout our lifetime, which is like,

oh, the star did some star shit and won the game. Like the Pacers throughout this entire post and they've just been kind of circumventing that with just the crisp offense and ball move and Halliburton and the magic of this postseason run, but just felt like all the little pixie dust that they had throughout this, even this series, like Ben Matherin, we should talk about,

who like probably lost a local car dealership, uh, sponsorship in the battle. Grateful, grateful to Ben for his performance late tonight. thought he was sensational. I don't think I've ever seen it before. The two away from the play pre-pass fouls in one quarter. And looking like, looking incredulous about it.

It's like, dude, you, you hit him like a bowling ball. You know, what are we talking about here? So maybe not as good as LeBron, ultimately, Ben Matvin. He might have lost that one.

But yeah, just, it was just, you know, it was almost odd to see the Pacers not come on top in this situation because like this is where they shine. The Pacers defense has been, you know, incredible when it's had to be throughout, you know, a majority of this series save game two, right? And so it, I've been extremely impressed just with the unit as a whole. They scrap on every possession. anybody who's chasing anybody is hauling ass you know what i mean like they're not they you know ben

shepherd i don't think i've ever seen him get screened uh which is infuriating as a thunder camp but he's just like you know and they have such uh active defenders nimhard is just so smart and so it's so weird that he's young because he feels like one of these like wily vets already you know what i mean like it feels like he's got a bunch of like you know not the dark arts but maybe the the the the gray arts, you know, not quite the dark arts yet, but he's on the verge of learning them. I think it's the facial hair, him and Shepard both. It just makes you feel like they're more wily than they are. Yeah, but like, he's an apprentice. Yeah. Totally. Totally. We got there. Thank you. Yeah. I think the big thing tonight was that the Thunder did not,

particularly SGA and Jalen, did not stop driving. They just kept on sticking with the plan and once they started to finally get some success going downhill late, that opened up the pull-ups for them and stuff. And so it, you know, they, they started trying to get SGA the ball, not quite at the nail, but at the elbow where he's not having to run off a bunch of screens. It's like this little rub on the block and he sort of pops right up there, right? Like, it's less, they're, they're, they're making him cover less ground in those moments. And then he's got Nimhart on him and it's, you know, it's not, it's not the same as when C. Ackham's got a small on him, but Shea is much taller than Nimhard and can get a shot off over him for the most

part when he wants. And especially once he started to loosen the defense up with some of the drives, you know, he catches that one around, you know, 13 feet or whatever. And it's just one bounce right straight up. And it's, that was, that's a warm up shot for him that he's getting in crunch time in the fourth of the NBA finals. You know what I mean? So it, that they just stuck with the plan and that they kind of simplified the offense in the end. You know what I mean?

It was in the same way that you sometimes used to see those old Thunder teams where it's just like, okay, this is going to be pick and roll. Russ is going to set a screen for KD. And then we're going to see what happens. It kind of turned into a little bit of that. There was a little bit, there's a little bit more nuance with this team. Thank God. Than there was with the Scotty Brooks coach squads.

But there was some. element of they're trying to put knee smith on jaylin and shay's got knee smith in hell obviously he fouls him out with whatever it was like 44 seconds left or something but she had knee smith in hell for those final couple minutes and they just kept setting that screen and i'll be interested to see like that that might just be an automatic switch based off of their you know defensive principles and the game playing and stuff like that but the pacers have typically done a really good job with not giving up switches when they know the thunder are trying to do that. Both of these teams are really invested on the defensive end and not giving up the switch that the other team desperately

wants. So I was surprised to see them do it so consistently there towards the end. I mean, it speaks to Jaylen as a screener. It speaks to how well he was playing and that they were terrified of him getting loose. But yeah, it's a, that things became kind of meat and potatoes there at the and was, I think it just simplified a lot of things for the offense. And at a certain point, him and Shea and Jalen finally kind of got in rhythm at the same time. And when those two are playing well and when Chet's given you anything, if those two are playing well and Chet's giving you anything, this team becomes very, very hard to beat.

Yeah, we're talking about this. Yeah, exactly. Go ahead. No, I want to get to the Chet part of it because his awakening in the second half, I don't know what happened exactly. After a brutal rolled ankle. Incredibly brutal rolled ankle. Clearly, like, just was not moving super well, was not impacting the game in the first half,

and then all of a sudden came alive in a totally different way in the second half that deserves singling out, deserves talking about. But I don't want to gloss past J-Dub in this because you're right, Tyler, that him setting those screens in that way is creating those switches. To me, that's like classic late-game stuff

where teams are a little more willing to switch to control the action than they might get in other situations. And so that's why you see that happening from the Pacers, especially when it's the two most dangerous players on the floor. But getting Nemhardt off of Shea is just worth any action, any time, any investment. I just like, like, this is going to take a bit of a threading of the needle. So bear with me. Andrew Nemhard played a plus plus plus defense in this game.

Like, guarded Shea as good as it, as well as it can be done. And Shea had 35 points. Like, those things are both true. Yeah. And we're going to have to live with both those things being true. but getting Nemhart off of Shea in some crucial moments and Shea getting Nemhart off of him too with the little bump and kind of creation of space

that he's so good at. That's what created the ultimate separation for the Thunder down the stretch. Well, yeah, so Shea had the 35 points, but the glaring, I think, number in the box score is just the zero assists and just speaks to what you're saying about Nemhart. But overall, it just seemed like there was a real,

maybe not chopping the head off the snake because the Thunder ultimately won this game, but at very least like getting in a first, headlock because that trickled down to everybody else. I was tracking this probably the entire game where it was like, oh, at half time, there's only six assists for the Thunder. Then it was a, and then they ended up with, I believe, 10 here. But clearly, Kyle, I mean, Tyler, there was just like something off about what Thunder had.

And the fact that J-dub stepped forward and did wrangle the game in a way that we've been hoping for for a little while, and then you got the chat bonus at the end there, I think that makes the difference because, I mean, not to be reductive about this, but like the Thunder need those guys in order to fill in, especially considering the way the Pacers are selling out. They're basically saying, someone else beat us because, Shea, we will do everything to stop him. No, for sure. And I think, I think, you know, the, the misses compound things, right?

And so as the game wears on and they just cannot hit from distance, things just tighten up on the inside, right? and there gets to be even less room to operate. They were running Chet off the line pretty good. Sometimes I feel like Chet's got a little window and he doesn't pull as quick as he should. Tonight I didn't really feel like that. For the most part, it felt like they were just running him off the line

and he was doing what he needed to do. But no, I mean, I, Nimhart has guarded SGA better than anybody this postseason far and away. Yeah. and has given him, I mean, this Pacer's team has given him the kind of trouble that, like, I'm really only seen in the past from somebody like, you know, Amens had some great possessions on him this year. Herb Jones used to have some great possessions on him a couple years ago when Hurd was healthy. Like, you could, you know, it's, it's not as if he can't be, you know,

held in check some nights, but that he was, uh, that Nimhard is making him, Nimhard and the Pacer defense altogether is making him work in a way that nobody else has. And so for him, yeah, for him to go for 35 when really it felt like he had not a ton in the tank, right? Like there, it really felt like he did not have a lot of juice for the beginning of that fourth quarter and really for a lot of the second half. I mean, there was, you know, he was 10 for 22 at one point. And, you know, you wouldn't say he was playing bad really. but they're not letting him beat them.

You know what I mean? They're doing... He feels constricted in a way that was very noticeable. And like Rob, I think like going into when we were doing the previews for the series, Nemhart hadn't historically, at least this season,

had a ton of success against Shea. And so, like, what is different? Is it the fact that like maybe they could throw Shepard out there for a bit, tire those guys out, he could stay fresh, and there's just like a relentless

relentlessness there? I think it is the relentlessness because in terms of physique and like profile, Andrew Nemhart is not the type of defender. Like, you know, the guys you're describing Tyler, I would say Derek Jones Jr. has also been in that category. For sure, for sure. Like bigger, lankier guys are the ones who usually give Shay a little bit of trouble, if anybody. I don't know that we've ever seen someone this size get under his skin in this way.

And, you know, it's one of the things about Shay's game where he has such like a one-of-one unique style of movement. And one of the side effects of that is you can, you can really, you can really, you can really, tell when he's not when he's off when he's off balance because we're so used to that kind of like glide by the way he navigates through defenses and finishes kind of over and around anybody all of a sudden you're seeing him in this in at least in the bulk of this game off balance the body control isn't there the poise on the jumper isn't there he actually looks rushed for the first time in what feels like a year and so seeing that version of shea I think you have to attribute to the

total body of work right it's the way that they're making him work on both ends it's the fact that Nemhart doesn't have, you know, he has a level of offensive responsibility, but he's not driving offense. So he can pick up full court. He can dedicate his entire workload for the night, more or less to this as much as anything in a way that we've seen Neesmith do another series, right? Like we see, we see those guys kind of trade off and how much they have to lean into their defense. But a huge reason the Thunder survive all of that is because J. Dub was basically Shea for three quarters. Not necessarily in terms of production, but I thought this was just like as strong a game as we've seen from J. Dub, certainly in this postseason.

maybe in his entire career. And I say that not just in terms of like, oh, he played well or he played smart, but getting to the basket, like getting to the basket aggressively through defense, finishing through contact, finishing through second chances when he would miss and go up through three guys to get his own miss

and then finish just tremendous, like, can't miss stuff. Like, this is exactly who they need him to be. It's who everyone has been begging him to be. Real star-level contributions from J-Dub in the biggest possible moment of the Thunder season. Yeah, and it's definitely something that's going to have to show up

road, not only because obviously they need him. He's a crucial part of what he does, but also, I can't imagine the harassment is going to stop on Shea. And I do wonder how much these miles are going to compound over the course of this series. And one thing I've been tracking, Tyler, is like, obviously give the Pacers a ton of credit. They have found a

way to disrupt him in the way that I can't remember any other team, especially over the course of the postseason, like Denver did their damned this, and he did not look like he is right now. But the other part of this, I think you have to wonder is, like, we're now deep into the postseason of a season in which Shea took by far the most shots in the NBA,

took by far the most free throws in the NBA. I was trying to track it before we got on here. It's basically, including the postseason and the regular season, it's basically 2,900 shots at this point. And they just... It's intrinsic to how they play. They need Shea to be the sun, the moon, the stars. But you have to wonder if, like, that is also slowly underneath, like,

the tectonic plates, something that is happening here where it's like, those miles are adding up. and they're adding up. And it's just like, Shea, especially from the mid-range, just feels like, yeah,

he's been great, but he hasn't been as sharp and leading into this game, the struggles of the Thunder have had been primarily from two and from the mid-range, him and J-dub. And so, I don't know,

does it feel like just watching him over the course of this season that, like, in addition to what the Pacers are doing, he might be showing signs there, or am I reading too much into it? I mean, I don't think that's reading too much into it.

I think it's a combination of all those things, right? I think it's the last series of the season. They've played one seven-game series in these playoffs. The Minnesota series, they got rid of them quickly, but it was still physical. And then, you know, like this one is a... Nymard is...

You have to be such a disciplined defender against Shea. You can't reach in. You've got to move your feet. You've got to try to just be chest to chest with him and keep him in front of you because he's trying to use one of those crazy legs of his to just get you on his hip. Like if he gets a shoulder past you, you're kind of done, right? And Nimhard's ability to be constant pest there, that he is, that he does have that disciplined, I think, reputation when it comes to the officials too, he can get, I mean, they showed it late, right?

he gets away with a few tugs on the jersey. He gets away with some stuff because he is so disciplined. And that's not, I, Lord knows, but Thunder do plenty of that too, right? So no, no shade here. That's how you should play defense in the playoffs. But so I think that that's been a big aspect of it is you have both Parliol is a genius and is trying to move all the pieces around and figure out a way to keep him in check. you've got the fact that even though he's not a bad defender,

he is the lesser of the evils on that end in a lot of situations for the thunder, especially when Caruso's minutes are way up, right? It's like if you have a team that is perimeter focused, it's just you're going to go at him. You know what I mean? And I think in this series, like you have seen him just exhausted. You know what I mean? And so I think it's been a great game plan by the Pacers.

I think you could really tell that there was only a day off in between games this time too. I think you tell that for both teams, like the Pacers don't have as much juice late as they usually do. But I think you could really tell it with Shea early on in the game. There just wasn't that kind of not even burst, but like the just, you know, the kind of the fluidity. There weren't as many moments of grace from him as you are accustomed to sing. and that's like the Pacers throwing glitches in there. So it, they've, I mean, they've had an incredible game plan, right? And like the execution has been ACEs for the most part.

I think Shea is just a really special scorer. And he's the type of guy that you have to play him. In the same way, you got to play the Pacers for the full 48. You've got to play him for the full 48. You know what I mean? And when him and Jalen are both looking at the same time, It really makes things confusing for a defense, especially whenever they're both the two guys that are involved in the action late. You know what I mean?

I think that Jalen was going and they had to sell out on him, you know, if the ball is going back to him there. Yeah, but I mean, Jalen as a ball handler tonight, there were some shaky moments, but there were also just some like, he's so good with his left and has been so good with his left, both as a finisher and a ball handler. he had a, you know, there's like a little over eight minutes left. I think to tie it, you know, he snakes a ball screen and kind of just dances in front of Turner and then doesn't ever bring the ball back to his right. He goes with his left. Like he's done that multiple times this series. And yeah, anytime he gets into that mode where he's got the defender in jail behind him

and he's able to start snaking and he's got a little bit of a runway, If there's any space there, he's wiggly enough and wiry enough. He can finish sort of around the defense with this right left of his. You know, I would love to see what this Thunder offense looked like making any three whatsoever. Yeah. This series in particular has just been like anybody. You know, other than really game two, right? Like, you know, we can save basketball and my soul.

and I'm grateful to him for that. But yeah, it's, I think it was just Shea, I thought this was like a massive, massive sort of moment for Shea. He's been, he's shut up all the doubters, I think, during this postseason. Just anybody who was like he shouldn't have been the MVP or whatever, like I don't think you can really throw stones at his performance this postseason in any way. He's just showed up. But to see him do that on the biggest stage.

And Jalen, too. I mean, yeah, like more than, more than these, more than that game four in Minnesota, more than the game four in Denver or whatever, like more than the these, there were, they've had some great moments and some really, really good wins where it's felt like they've leveled up and grown, you know what I mean? But none more than, none more than that. To go in, to be on the road there, to shoot like shit and to still come out with a W, you know, that's, I don't know how many, I mean, what did you say, Robert,

the being like, I don't know how many other teams can win a game like that. Like, I just, that's, genuinely don't. That's kind of how I feel like it's, uh, the only other team that could do that, the Thunder are playing and they did it too. You know what I mean? And so it's like it, uh, no,

yeah. I don't even know what to do. The flip side of this, Rob, is that over time, maybe Shay just grinds this team down. Because he does play such a physical style. Uh,

you had to wonder down the stretch also, like the fact, Neesmith just wasn't available. Then the margins start to twist just a little bit. And as we've seen in this series, it's really a couple plays like Neismusmith blows through, uh, defenders in order to get offensive rebounds,

all this stuff. That really is dictating these games. So I do wonder, like, if we're looking at this from the other side of things, maybe Shea is actually wearing down the Pacers, and that will ultimately prove it to be a difference. It definitely could be. I mean, it's so hard.

Look, part of the reason this game was as great as it was, is there, it did feel like a moment. It was just not exactly clear to the end what that moment would mean or before. Like, I had the moment in the third quarter, you brought up Obie Topping earlier, Tyler. Like, when he hit those back-to-back three, I was like, oh, my God.

The Pacers might win the title. Like, they might legit win the title. Yeah. This felt like the crest, like the momentum, like cresting into something really, really meaningful. Now we get to, like, completely reinterpret what this game is and what its significance is. And this is going to look, this is a long series, a lot of basketball yet to be played. We're talking very positively about the Thunder because they stole this game,

because of the manner in which they won it. If they go on to win, this is going to be one of the signature bullet points, right? Like, their resolve in this exact stretch of the. this fourth quarter, and specifically the way that their big three came together in maybe the most balanced fashion they have at any point in this post season. They've had great moments of sort of triangulating points and production and all those things. This was each of those three guys living up to their assignment and living up to their roles and exactly what the team kind of aspirationally hopes that they can be. This is the, this is the blueprint for who the Thunder

want to be for the next half decade or more. Totally. It was each of them making plays that without that play, the thunder don't win. They don't get, you know, like, unless, without those two follows from Chet, late in the fourth, it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. Just massive. And to, without his, you know, defense on those ISO's holding up, right? Like, and yeah, I mean, we've already talked about Jalen and Shet, or Jalen and

Shay just as, you know, closers. But no, yeah, I, to, to, they, that trio really synthesized the goods tonight in the end. You know, it was for sure, touch and go, and I grew with you, Rob, like, we're talking highly of the Thunders specifically because of, you know, whatever, seven minutes of basketball, and it could have been slobbering all over the Pacers instead, if you go, you know, one way or the other. But, I mean, that's the beauty of the playoffs, you know what I mean?

That's what's, it's so fun whenever one of these great games actually does come down to the wire like that. And it's in, I mean, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like it was a game winner or anything, but to, yeah, to see both teams have leads late and, you know, that back and forth. And then, yeah, to see the, to see the Thunder, it's, I mean, it's crazy. This is the first time they've been in the finals. It's just crazy. It's crazy. Well, let me say a few things about on the Pacer's front, Justin. Let me tip a couple of caps here. I think for maybe the majority of this game or at the very least the first half,

Pascal Seacom was the most dangerous player on the floor. Oh my God. He was incredible. Total menace on both ends was amazing in transition, amazing ceiling inside, did a tremendous job. I thought Tyrese Halliburton's driving in this game was incredibly promising. again was another kind of culmination of so many things he's been working towards in these playoffs and so many ways in which defenses have been kind of like leveraging his wants and his inclinations against him at times. His like double clutch reversed with the English good Lord like maybe the shot of the game up until the moment that the Pacers lost it.

Obie Toppen was tremendous. I just think so many Pacers played so well. And this is what makes games like this so heartbreaking from Indy's perspective is like he kind of did everything you needed to do, accept seal it. And for that to happen to the Pacers of all teams feels like a poetic injustice, if nothing else. Well, that's kind of a good segue to the made men list I want to get to,

which we're just now coining here. A couple guys, I feel like earn their button tonight, because there are a lot of guys in this series in particular, in the playoffs too, getting to this point, but like it feels like guys are almost cementing themselves as the type of guys, I'm always going

to have based on these moments. Like, maybe in the regular season they don't play as well. Maybe they don't hit every shot, but when they take that next shot, I'm going to believe in them. I almost wonder if Alis-Cruso deserves even consideration here because I think we all

thought highly of him before. But considering his regular season, the fact that he does deal with injuries now and then, he kind of didn't have much opportunity with the Chicago Bulls despite some plentiful amount of play-in opportunities. But do we think, like,

else-Cruso, one, deserves to be on this list? And if so, Rob, like, is he a made man? I think he is a made man. I think he does deserve to be on the list. Again, there's like different levels to this stuff, right? Like there's the level of you take your team to a conference finals run, and that's going to be enough to mint you in that city for life. And then there is the different level of elevation that comes with winning a title specific.

Like, if the Thunder win the title, Alex Crusoe is going to ascend to a level of memetic prominence that he will never be able to escape. It's just going to be who he. He is going to be the dog of dogs for the rest of his life. Like these highlight reels will live rent free in so many people's heads. So, like, he is going to be up there for sure. Neismith and Nemhart, absolutely. Like, those guys are the next two guys.

Playoff elevators, not just by percentages, but by impact of play are just totally different. Did he get to 10 rebounds tonight? He had nine with a lot of time left and I just stopped looking at it. But he had nine. He's incredible. Oh, yeah. He ended with nine. and it was not surprising

well let's let's take them one at a time then so Andrew Nemhard who Mike Green tried to force playoff Andrew as a nickname in game two and almost was like yeah they're calling a playoff Andrews like no they're not anyone tried to do this but Tyler do you think playoff

Andrew is now a guy because he's definitely more in the range I think we're talking about here where it's like he's young enough to where I don't think we know who he's going to be but god damn with the defense, it's just like, plus the fact that he only makes three-pointers in the playoffs, I think he might be a made guy. He's definitely a made guy at this point, just because he's, it's not like he has, only had one good series up till now and he didn't show up in these other ones.

You know what I mean? Like, he's been, he's been incredible for them. And, no, I think as just like a steady force is going to do. do his job. And if if things break where, you know, he winds up shooting eight threes in a game, he could wind up with 25 pretty easily, but they don't necessarily need that from him. I mean, he's just perfect for what they are trying to do. Same thing with Neesmith. I mean, that whole front office has been just done such an incredible job of finding pieces that match with that play style, right? And so it, yeah, it's been him and Neesmith, I think, are both are both made men just

for, or at least like there may have been for like the next four years. You know what I mean? It's like a presidential term. Yeah. I think there's like at a, you know, if you're, if you're young enough or if it's, if it's early enough in your made man tenure, I think you can't lose it. You know what I mean? Okay.

In certain situations with certain guys, you know, it's like, you know, I think, I think it can fall by the wayside a little bit. But for right now, for sure. I think the Caruso thing, the reason I, I would say he, like, leveled up is, obviously we know everything about the defense. He's got that huge defection late tonight whenever he helps off and just, like, basically catches the ball out of the air there with whatever it was. Like, I can't remember if it's inside four minutes or not, but, but he scored 20 twice in this series.

Yeah. And that's, I can assure you, in the wildest dreams of Thunder fans whenever, whenever they got him, no one thought he was going to score 20 in one playoff game, much less two finals games. That's not the plan. No. And what he misses two shots tonight, I think? You know, it's like the, to score like that,

to get that much production from him on the offensive end, whenever you know what you're getting from him defensively, is just, it's incalculable to be able to, to be able to play him late and not worry about, that he's shown so much as a driver weirdly which you mentioned earlier, Justin. Like it's just all that stuff combined, I think he's gone up a level.

I think he would have gone up a level of my estimation even if I wasn't a Thunder fan, but I'm also a Thunder fan and can't be trusted, right? I'm a massive bummer. I think you could also tell when guys like what they wear, their mannerism starts to trickle in to what the fans replicate.

And the whole headband thing has been the calling card. for like 90 different players within the past 10 years. Like the fact that that is a thing for the Thunder, I think that matters. That's like a data point. I'm free of the oldest white people in the world wearing white headbands going into game two for the Thunder.

I thought they were going to fall apart in front of me. They were sold. But they loved them some Caruso, man. But Caruso's a made man. After a game like this, there's no question about it. I think Nemhart and Nie Smith, got to be in there. Not to step on your list, Justin, but I think you can make an argument for almost every supporting Indiana Pacer.

Well, Obie Tobin's the last guy. And I do think he's a tough one because there are some times where I was like, why is that guy playing? And then there are nights like tonight where it's like, is he the best fucking guy in the court? Like, what's going on is? Is he better than Carl Anthony Town? So the Knicks just built around him? See, I think, look, again, there's levels to this stuff. I think Obi Toppen, by the end of this run,

winner lose will cement himself as a kind of made man and will have significantly shifted his perception in terms of what his value is as a basketball player and specifically his playoff value. He's not just like, oh, what a great athlete running the floor and dunking in the regular season. He's busting teams open with threes. He's making incredibly athletic plays on defense.

He's doing the least Obitopin thing possible historically, which has rebound the ball against other people. It's been incredible. I also think though, like one game three Ben Mathurin game sort of cements the idea in the back of your mind forever that like he could just

have 27 points in 22 minutes. You know, like, it's, I think he gave it away. You think he gave it back. I think it, yeah, it cancels it out. There needs to be a net positive of made menness in order for him to really get the button. Oh, yeah. I'm not saying he's as good as these other guys.

Just that in terms of like his playoff perception, he's always going to be one of those like playoff heat check guys from now on. No, I think you're, Rob. I think even if he's not on the basers in like three years, if he's on the, the jazz or something and they're all of a sudden in the playoffs, again, I think for sure people will be like, and look, Masterin, you never know. He could go

for this. You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing. The moment he signs with anybody else is like, hey, look, he scored 27 and, you know, like, that's, it's for sure. It's not first paragraph of the O bit, but it's way up. It's, you know, we're high in the body in the case. It's an outlasts

campaign in the league. Just like, hey, campaign had that game with the sons. One can only help. Yeah. see yeah you're right there are levels there those are guys that at the very least like we'll remember always like when the pacers go to the finals in 2050 and we're watching this on mars like they will be up in the arena and gainhouse like just arena um like i think another some of the other guys were were tonight i'm sorry just i was being very rude there it was a bad point you're fine no no i was I think that another guy for the thunder that deserves some love is Kenrich Williams. This is a guy who even more than Isaiah Joe or Aaron Wiggins, the minutes are spotty.

They're not always going to roll him out. He'll have a DNP, and it's not a surprise, right? Like they get him in the Stephen Adams to New Orleans Pelicans trade way back in the day. Yeah. He's a throw-in. basically. And he gets into the Thunder ecosystem and slowly they're like, oh, this guy is more than just an offensive rebounder. He can actually handle the ball a little bit. He can shoot it a little bit. And he's also just competitive as hell. He was the guy that the Thunder were, that was basically like,

hey, LeBron can break the record on me. It's fine. I'll go guard him. Like, he's just that kind of guy. He doesn't care. He's there to win. The name is Kenny Hustle. Kenny Hustle. You know, and I've been throwing out of the name. I've been throwing out. out of an alt, which is Big Rick. And I don't know, I don't know how it is, but I think it's kind of okay, right? I like it. Is it basketball reference worthy? Probably not. We're not dealing with, we're not dealing with Palo ban here with that, right? Like, that's perfection. But I do think that Big Rich is pretty solid. But no, like, for him to, because they've gone to them a couple times, you know, even more than a couple times during this postseason,

and whenever they do want a little bit of a change-up, if they want to go super-duper-small, but still, like, when he gives them good minutes, it's just so huge for the long game for the team, too, because other guys can store up reserves for the late third and fourth. You know what I mean? And to see him come in and, you know, Lord knows, Siakam was cooking all night,

but to make Seacom work, he's a little bit bigger body, right? A little bit taller than some of these other guys, save Jalen. He's able to just get, I think, a little bit better contest than Caruso or Cason in those situations. And so what he did tonight, and just offensively, you never feel like he's over his head, really. You know what I mean? He just really plays within himself and that he can fit so seamlessly. in such spotty minutes, in such big games and big moments, I think just says a lot about him.

I mean, he had a huge game against the nuggets. I'm pretty sure. Or it might have been against the wolves. Again, I have peanut butter up here at this point. But, like, I've been, I've just been so impressed with him this postseason and the ways that they've used him. there really hasn't been a time where they brought him out and it's been like all right Kenridge appreciate the time but go back you know what I mean like he's always been he hasn't

gotten played off the floor in these situations and that's uh they're not putting him out there and asking him to just hide on somebody you know what I mean like they're asking him to go out there and be a part of the action and you know he's not just some guy who's going to stand in the corner and Chuck and so I've been uh he's that's a guy who you know you talk about somebody who's meant not in the league, but as a Thunder player, the way Thunder fans feel about that dude, that's like a, he's, he's not Pauluson yet,

but they've always sort of him like this generation's Collison. Sure. Pretty good. I don't know if he's going to get his jersey retired, but I wouldn't throw up fit if he did. This was one of those games, though. Like, low-key, one of the little things that mattered in this game, Kenrich Williams' second quarter minutes.

He comes in, he plays like 11 minutes in this game, four points, not a huge deal, like in the box score terms, but comes in, screens for Shea, frees him up, gives him an outlet in the middle of the floor when Shea is being hounded. And frankly, when Chet isn't moving well, Isaiah Hartnstein isn't playing well. And so you don't have that like pick and roll short, roll passer. And there was a possession where he got in the middle floor, I think he dumped it off to Crusoe for a layup. And it was like the first breath of fresh air that the Thunder had had in like six minutes. Those are huge plays. Then he gets a leakout bucket in transition.

And he's playing good defense. And he always knows where to be. It's like having a guy like that just in the rotation, as you're saying, Tyler, that you can yo-yo in and out that plays in some matchups and doesn't in others. Invaluble. An invaluable resource for the Thunder. This is what's so interesting about OKC is they are one of the youngest teams in the league. They're still finding their way in so many different respects.

They play so deep. And yet they have all of these luxuries that other teams don't have. And some of that is by nature of their youth. Some of it is just by the nature of how brilliantly this team has been constructed. but having Kenrich Williams just kind of waving in the wind for when you need him, an incredible thing to have for any team.

I think we've just cited that like everyone on both rosters are made men except for Isaiah Joe. I mean, this is what happens when you go to the finals. Like you get remembered forever for those kinds of runs. Yeah. Just get pricked. Why don't we look ahead to the next game?

We're tied here. So Tyler, if I have the chart that they have in medical offices of like the 10 smile face is going from very sad to very happy. Like, where are you in terms of your anxiety level going into this next game? Oh, shit. It's always, I'm in like 17 brownie faces always when it comes to this stuff.

I'm a, I'm a cynic at heart and scared to death of this patient's team as I wrote for the site. I think that they have enough offensive firepower that they could go into Oklahoma City and steal another one. I don't see why they couldn't, especially if none of the role players for the Thunder can put the ball in the basket like a lot of them couldn't, at least from distance. So I, you know, I'm always, my, my prediction for the series was Thunder and Six. And so I'm going to roll with that, even though now it feels like the smart thing to do would probably be Thunder in seven. Just because I've got a lot, I feel like I had a lot of respect for the Pacers coming in just because of how great they've been in the clutch. And because it feels like there's something magical about them. You know what I mean?

Like, not just in the way they play offense, but like, They have been, they are, the sun is shining favorably upon them this postseason. You know what I mean? Like there's something to this run. And, and so absolutely, you know, no more confidence than, I'm at neutral, baby. I'm like the thunder. You know what I mean? I'm a cliche.

Yeah. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to. Yeah, I think it'll probably, I'm going to, I'm going to roll with Thunder and but I have no certainties against this Pacer team. As much as the Thunder have answered a lot of bells, right? It's like ultimately probably the series should be two, too, right? Like the Pacers probably should have won tonight, and the Thunder should have won game won.

And it feels like even though there's been a couple steals, like it feels like it's kind of what it should be. And so, yeah, I don't know. This Pacer people team, they feel too resilient to be like, oh, no, we figured them out in that final, you know, whatever. The Thunder are a 68 win team and they feel like the underdogs now. Like, I almost feel like they need to overcome rising tide of the Pacers. So, Rob, where are you going to the next one? I mean, there's no certainty to be had here, as Tyler said, with anything that's happening.

I will say just like in terms, if you want to zoom out, this. is what these series look like when a heavily favorite or just a favored team happens to go down to one. Often they win game four. A lot of times they win game five. And that's kind of when the balance of the series starts to turn.

From down to one to up three, two, that's what great teams do. And we're about to find out if the Thunder are a great team or not. We're about to find out if they're worthy of that kind of designation or if they're not quite ready for that particular moment. But I just, I'm a little hard pressed to think that they won't at least show up. I think we're going to get more competitive games. We're going to get more craziness.

We're probably going to get more crunch time heroics from the Pacers. I have no doubt of it. But I think ultimately, the Thunder have found their level again in a way that's really meaningful. They haven't solved the series. They haven't cracked the Pacers. You can't. I think it's pretty clear at this point.

No one is going to keep that team down for extended stretches. But their defensive performance in the fourth quarter and ultimately getting one of these like psychological crunch time wins, I think is just a huge. development for them in this series. I think another big thing for The Thunder, and one of the reasons that I feel even a little bit better about the game

outside of the great comeback at the end is, you know, they've got, by and large, the Thunder did not play a good first half of basketball, or at least not near what they can, right? And to only be down what they were down at half, I can't, was it seven or something? I can't remember or whatever,

but they, you know, the Pacers were trying to stretch elite out there. And then for the final, like, 17 possessions of that second quarter, I think the Pacers only score 15 points. You know what I mean? Like, that's to be able to do that to the Pacers at home in a game where they came out hot, and you could tell they were like, we need to try to, like, blow this thing open early and see if we can get them to blink a little bit.

that the thunder kind of stayed the course and we're able to string together some stops there in the second quarter and kind of stem the tide and just keep things close, you know, to not let go of the rope in the way that in the way that can happen against the Pacers. That was

not more encouraging, but it's a massive part of why I feel a little bit better than I even would after the comeback. But that said, I have zero confidence, either direction, on what's going to happen. Listen, if the Pacers take two in OKC, like no team has this postseason, we're on a goddamn magic carpet ride to destiny, my friends.

Like, all that's are off. And so I can't wait to see it. I think we'll be back after game five on Monday. Why, if he gets through customs, I believe we'll be with us. Well, he's actually being interviewed, Justin, for the New York Knicks head coaching job. That's why he's not with us tonight. Good luck, was. Good luck, was.

I'm sending James an email. He's a friend. I'll let him know. Worldwide was. It was all in the... Worldwide, yes. So thanks to Tyler for joining us. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely.

Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to John Richter and Victoria Valencia on the video side of things. We'll be back on Monday. We will talk to you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and

present in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Hallhashhelp.com. Call 1-888-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org or 800 327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 18778 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.