The Ringer NBA Show - The Tight Western Conference Playoff Race and Hot Seats for Jason Kidd and Darvin Ham. Plus, Another Disappointing Ben Simmons Season. | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

Logan and Raja discuss the tight Western Conference playoff race, how the play-in tournament is shaking out, and which teams at the bottom of the standings can potentially make some noise in the postseason (4:26). Next, they react to news that Ben Simmons is out for the season and share their mixed emotions on another disappointing season from the former All-Star forward (29:44). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (44:49). Email us questions for Mailbag Monday! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey. Hey. Hey. Can I talk to you guys for a second? Sure. Over 25 years ago, on September 29, 1998, we watched a brainy girl with curly hair drop everything to follow a guy

she only kind of knew all the way to college. And so began Felicity, the brainchild of J.J. Abrams and Matt Reeves, starring Carrie Russell. And me, Greg Grunberg, a.k.a. Sean Blumberg. It won't be confusing at all. And me, Amanda Foreman,

a.k.a. Felicity's roommate with the box. And I'm Juliette Litman. I was not on Felicity, but I remember every moment of it, probably better than these two do. All together, we'll be revisiting our favorite moments from the show and talking to the people who help shape it. We talked to Carrie Russell, of course, because she's the best. And also Scott Speedman and Scott Foley. I was Team Scott. I just want to lay that out there right now. And we also talked to JJ and Matt, the two brains behind this amazing series, and many more people who work behind the scenes, and

in front of the camera. From Bad Robot Audio and The Ringer, this is Dear Felicity. The rewatch begins on March 13th. Listen to Dear Felicity on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, you got your recording all figured out.

You good? Are you a pro? How are you doing? How are you doing? Kai, can people hear me sucking my teeth into the mic or no? I'm sure they can. Okay, then put the chips in there. Put that in there from me.

Not dignifying that shit would have responded. But don't start with me this morning, boy. I got a question for you. You go, you're going to do me like John Collins did that coach? Mmm. You're getting really good, man. If I don't tell you that often, allow me to do it today. Thanks, bud.

Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. I think that's that on that. I think that's all we did to do. Do you have any quick before we get into actual, like, responsible podcasting. Do you have any thoughts on the John Collins fight?

No, look, I watched the video a little bit. It was kind of hard for me to tell. It looks like there's a world that we live in where John Collins says that coach kind of put his forearm up and touched John Collins first. And so he was just reacting to that. I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

I think what the coach was feeling like was why are we doing all of this right here in our space as a team right in front of our bench? So it's just messy. I'm not mad anybody. That's a heated situation. I've had instances with coaches that run their mouth and try to get under your skin

where they have gotten under my skin and vice versa. So it's all part of the competitive environment. You know what I mean? Like, shit, I got into it. I cursed out Lude Olson when we were out there in Arizona when I was in- You close out Lut Olson? Absolutely. And he deserved it.

Why? Why? Why? He was calling me a thug and calling us all kinds. of all kind of wild out of pocket shit was coming out of that man's mouth. So I turned around and told him about himself why they cheated us in Arizona.

They took us out there as the cupcake. May we beat Penn State. I know this doesn't do with anything. We go out. It's us against Penn State and them against some other mid-major, probably weaker than us. And we popped Penn State off the bat,

like really popped them. And we were rocking. We had Arizona down late. in the second half, man, I was giving them work. They literally fouled me out on a double foul posting up Jason Terry with six minutes to go in the game, like posting up. Yeah. They double fouled us to give me my fifth foul and get me out of that game.

And in the process, Luke was saying some wild stuff. So it happens, man. You're like, you're in the heat of the battle. The coaches are, this is their outlet too, right? In a lot of instances, they're just as engaged as the player. So, you know, it's all good. Luke also said we need to get that thuggery out of our game. game. Yeah, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was disrespected. Wow. Thursday ruins, ladies and

gentlemen. Yeah, we're off. We're off. We're ready to go. Oh, man. I had a, had an interesting night last night. What to go to Chase Center to watch the, uh, the warriors play the Milwaukee bucks. Milwaukee, man, I think I'm, I think I'm taking out all stock that I have a Milwaukee going forward. dude. This is just, it's not a good basketball team. It's not a good. They had just won six in a row. They don't look good. They do not look good. They don't look good.

For a team at this stage of the season, when I see them, and probably, and like granted, it could be like, this is a West, it's the first game of a West Coast trip, in the Bay Area. I know, you know, people, you know, people from the East Coast, they don't know what to do when they come out here. Maybe it was, it was

that. They just, they just, the defense, has been an Achilles Hill for the Bucks for a long time this season. And it came to bear this year. It wasn't even a fun game. Maybe I'm just mad, Roger, that it wasn't even a fun game to watch.

It was just, I was just out on the Bucks because they just wasted my time. And the only time that I get to see them all year. You know, do you ever get that West Coast teams comes? That's probably why I was, like, when that happens.

I was probably mad because I only see them once a year. Yeah, you were disappointed in the performance. You were disappointed in not getting to see, you know, a good game that probably for you, Golden State pulls out late, but it's a fantastic showing. I would just say that after what happened to Golden State, not too long ago in Boston against another good team from the East,

it was one of those games where I'm not excusing anything the Bucks did or didn't do last night, but it's one of those on a schedule where circumstances you're going to be, this is going to be a difficult game. Phil Jackson calls those scheduled losses. On Phil Jackson, another coach, they'd like to talk, by the way. I mean, he called, didn't he, he, he might have called you a thug or two, one of, one of, one of, one of these. He called me many a thing. Both privately and publicly, Bill Jackson.

That's some shit to say about Roger Pell. He called me many, many a thing. Wow. I don't know where we are. This is this Thursday Rose, Rose, Roe, we're settling scores on Thursdays. But let me ask you a question. Did that make, did that performance against the bucks? it's been a topic all season long, Golden State, the Lakers.

I remember a pod we had not in the too distant past where we were asking who'd you trust more out of those two teams because they're both basically in the same spot in the Western Conference. Does that make you feel any better about them? I think that makes you feel better than them about better than that. I feel better about Golden State than I feel about the Los Angeles Lakers at this point. This is another thing. We'll get into the playing because we're going about to talk about

the playing standings and things in the Western Conference because it's just bonkers right now. It's just very entertaining the finish. The thing about the Western Conference right now and the Warriors and Lakers, and I think the Phoenix Sun is doing this. There's a lot of just average teams in the West right now.

I think the Warriors are exactly what their record are. They're an average team. Now, I was talking to some people about this last night. If the Warriors were whole and knew their rotation and all these things and didn't have suspensions throughout the season, they'd probably be like, from four to six, you still wouldn't be thinking about them as a title contender.

Now, maybe people in the Bay Area might be throwing that gas, but they know the truth. And I think the same thing with the Lakers, if they were whole, they'd probably be like a, maybe they have a higher ceiling because they have Brown and AD, but I'd say like three to seven range. And I'd still have the same feelings about what the Lakers are. Suns, same thing. I mean, I just don't, the teams that are where they are are supposed to be where they are. I don't really like, see, what about you?

Do you think that, like, at this point in the season, of the teams right now that are there? Because we're going to talk about which team? I'm going to go six down to 10. Yeah. To start. We have the Phoenix Suns who are currently in six. Great game from, like, a vintage Durant game we got this week against the Nuggets,

which is great. I don't know if you got a chance to see that. But, like, yeah, like 35. And it was one of those old school games where, which I love, We went 14 of 34, whereas one of those things where, like, we get so in our efficiency bag and all these things and that we forget how great occasionally a 14 to 34 game is when the guy wins and you just see the journey. Like Durant missed like eight straight. They hit a three to tie the game and then went into over. It was a vintage game like that.

So I love what I saw out of the Suns this week against the Nuggets. But we have the Sons. We have the Kings, the Mavericks, the Golden State Warriors, and the Los Angeles Lakers. Roger, which of those teams do you think actually has a real shot to make some noise at this very moment? Let's start at the bottom. We started with Los Angeles was the last one, right? We went 10 through, what do you know, 10 through 6? 10 through 6.

I've been on record giving you my reservations about the Lakers. It's what they're asking LeBron to do. And you saw him last night come off hobbled. He had 31, I don't know, something and something, some kind of crazy game. And he just doesn't get the type of support that a player at that age needs consistently. enough for me to think that they're going to be a threat. He can do that. I'm not debating that. I'm not taking anything away from the greatness that still is LeBron, which is out of this world incredible. But you need more consistent help for me to take them really, really seriously.

Golden State, interesting, because Steph's still playing great. Kaminga's playing great. Some of those young players are playing really well. I think they could be dangerous in a round. I don't think that they're going to ultimately be able to navigate all the way through consistently. to get to a chip. I've seen, and here's where we get to Dallas. I've seen Luca and Kyrie both go crazy. Now you're going to say to me, well, you've seen LeBron and AD go crazy. Yeah, I do.

I have, but they're way younger. And in a way that AD isn't built to like always say, hey, this is mine, I'm going to, both of them are. And I've seen, I've seen Luca in the playoffs before, you know, get into his bag. I like them. I like the Kings a little bit. I don't think I really trust the Sons right now. And I'm sorry, Phoenix.

I just did like a video for Amari. He went into the Ring of Honor last week. And I feel bad saying that, but I got to see more. Like, I have to see more. I'm also the guy that told you, if all three of those dudes are healthy, they're a problem to guard,

but I got to see more. It's tough, because I'm looking at the standards right now. And the thing with the Nugget Sun's matchup is pretty tricky because I'd never get a good gauge on where Denver is at because I see so many different forms of Denver. You know what I mean? Like I see so many.

I saw them in the Bay a couple weeks ago. They looked fucking phenomenal. And then they lay an egg at home against Phoenix. These are the types of games that Denver plays. So like at the moment right now, Denver's playing the Sons. I still give Denver the edge just because I love their ceiling a lot more. if the Sons can get like to the four or fifth seed and maybe like get the pellet because at this point

it's all about getting to the right side of the bracket. If they can get to maybe four or five-ish and play the pelicans or something like that or draw or maybe which we'll talk about in the second maybe draw the Timberwolves. Because I think everybody right now with this Carl Anthony Towns news with the meniscus tear, which we'll get to it a second and how that affects teams, I think everybody is angling of

How are we going to play the Timberwolves? How are we going to figure out a way to get Timberwolves in the first round? Right. Because this meniscus injury is what it is. If it's a, careful what you asked. You know, you're going to, it's going to be a, it's going to be a scenario where you have at taking all the shots and you have teams with great guards targeting Grudy Gobert. We've seen this time and time again.

All right. I'm just, yeah. If Cat is really marginalized at that point, I'm with that. If he is back and it's not a major meniscus injury, and then I just tell anybody looking for them, be careful what you asked for. You think so. So everyone in NBA circles right now,

every time I talk about the Timberwolves, everybody's like, I don't know. I don't trust it. I don't trust it. They have the prime ability. They have the prime scenario where there's a coach and Chris Finch that isn't trusted that has to prove,

not to trust it, but as to prove himself in the postseason has yet to do that from a coaching standpoint. Then you have Anthony Edwards who has to prove that he is ready for this moment, right? Like obviously he has bald. He is a favorite on real ones, but has to be the guy and step into the guy role. And then you have Carl Towns, who people are occasionally down on. And he have the Rudy Gobert thing where every time he goes at the postseason, he gets turned around like a turnstile by guards, especially on switches. So at least right now, everybody was, even before, I think, if you were looking at the two top teams in the West with Oklahoma City Thunder, I think if he polled people,

they would pick between the Thunder and the Timberwolves. They would pick Timberwolves every time, Rob. Hey, good for them. What I was doing was setting you up. You're posing the question to me, which team would I want to play? I was doing a new thing that I've been thinking about in my head and practicing in my head that I see on television where people just say stuff and they do a leading, it's not even a question. It's a leading like sentence for someone else to answer. So I was trying that out,

fell flat on my face. But I was going to ask you basically how you felt about the, does that, your say, we cover what you whispered with the Timberwellins, what you're saying. That's all I said. Like I wasn't really getting into. I thought I was, I was trying to set you up to get more in your bag is what I was trying to do. I mean, Oklahoma City, I think, if I, if I may, is a more well-rounded team. They're, they're, while Minnesota is the best team in the league defensively, Oklahoma City is very, very good. And okay, see if I'm not mistaken, I just think has more flow to their offense, like more, you know.

And so, yeah, I could see that. Like, I'm not arguing that. All I was saying was I, that's a team because of their size, their length. There are multiple people that you can give the ball to and get a bucket, even if the flow's not great. And we don't have a bunch of just chemistry offensively working in the playoffs because someone scouted us and taken us out of what we want to do. and role players aren't being able to compliment as much

because of the X and O digging into that we get to do as the staff. I got to do as I can give the ball to and get a bucket and they're really, really tough defensively. So that's what I was saying. Like, they're, be careful with that. One of the most intriguing teams that, and you mentioned them earlier,

was a Dallas Mavericks. When I think about the Dallas Mavericks, I was on Simmons probably like two weeks ago and we were both like raving about the moves that the Dallas Mavericks had made at the dread line, right, getting a guy like Daniel, Gafford to be a great backup too lively. A lot of people haven't seen Daniel Gavard for much of the season because he played for

the Wizards. And I don't know about you, Roger. I ain't trying to watch the Wizards anymore than I have to. But they go on this streak. As me and Kyle were talking about pre-pod, Dallas is on fire. Everybody, I didn't even know that there was like Mavs Twitter like that. Mavs is like Mavs Twitter and Mavs fan base is galvanized. They were talking about we're going to win a championship.

You guys don't understand. we got here. And then they fall flat on their face. Let me throw some stats at you, Rara. The Mavs have lost five of his past six games, despite Luca Dantius averaging 37, 9.8 rebounds, and 11.3 assist, slipping the eighth place in the Western Conference. This is from our guy in front of the show, Tim McMahon.

Dodgers has struggled defensively during his three-game run of 35-point triple doubles. And in such games, Dallas has allowed 100, 33 points per 100 possessions with Dachets on the floor during the three-game losing streak and have been outscored by 29 points in his 120 minutes. Now, this is something that we have to like, that we've, the conundrum that the Mavericks have faced, you can go back into the Real Ones archives. We have talked about this at length, having to play alongside Luca Dotsich and how hard it is to play with a certain type of amazing talent like that is, right?

But at this point, all I see right now is they got to get this guy to somehow to play defense because every time when I read that quote, I heard Raj's voice in my head from 2020 saying, this doesn't make any sense if Dodgers will play no defense. I was going to say the F word,

but I wanted to like stop our F words throughout this podcast. But you know, like, all I heard was you. And where are we at right now with the Dallas Mavericks and staff record label and mother effing group? Yeah, that's, well, I didn't know I didn't know that the Twitter Mavs was a thing either. And it is kind of weird that we talked about Phoenix

as a team that would have these three great offensive players not be able to defend. And they're not bad defensively. You know, they're not bad. It's been on a heater, man. They're not bad. He's a blocking shot, 31 rebounds from Marcus. Jeez.

They're not bad defensively. So I apologize. And as I'm sitting here honestly, and you put me on the spot to pick and I picked the MAVs. I need to have a better conversation with myself and parse that out because I could make a case for the Sons. But as the MAVs go, what you had to do, and I would say, again, for some players, it's going to be difficult to play with Luca just because how much he has the ball at times, right? But a Kairi, because he doesn't, you know, he can just go get it too.

You just give him the ball and just go. So he's fine with that. He's averaging 25 and a half a game next to Luca. that's not the problem. But that's always going to be the thing with stars, Bogen. That's when you are ready to make the commitment to do what you have to do to win games. Part of that commitment is defending. Part of that commitment is at least making an effort to make it look like you're leading the charge in that area.

You don't have to be the greatest defender in the world. Shit, Steve Nash was not the greatest defender on the planet. but you never got the impression. Steve Nash was like even considered top 200 best defender on the planet. Yeah, but you never got the impression playing with him that it didn't matter to him. Sure.

Or that he wasn't going to be giving maximum effort both in terms of... And the same with like Steph, right? Same thing just like you have to at least care. They're out there caring and competing. And so when they demonstrate that, then the people on your team who are there to do that, you know,

becomes even more of a priority for them. It becomes even more important. And so that's every, not every great player because some come in and they're ready to do it. But a lot of great players, that's part of the maturation process. Everybody knows you can get these buckets. Everybody knows that you can dance on the ball for virtually as long as you'd like to and then toy with somebody and get a bucket. We know that.

But it hasn't necessarily translated into getting very, or getting close enough to the championship. And the next step in that is really, playing the entire game. And so that is a thing for them. The reason I said what I said was because I saw the man almost single-handedly dismantled a son's a couple of years ago. Almost. He did.

I said almost single-handedly, though, because, yeah, I mean, Jalen Brunson was working. Yeah. You know what I mean? And you got Kyrie with you, who I've seen firsthand do that in playoff games. And so that's a scary thing to me.

But you're absolutely right, though. Like, you cannot be a bad defensive team. You just can't be, you can't be a bad defensive team. no matter how good you are offensively and expect to contend for a championship. The interesting thing, though, is right, like they, even like two weeks ago, they were in the thick of like the four or five

in the Western Conference and looked like they were, not four or five, but they looked like they were trending upwards in that direction. And now the Mavs are in real grave danger if they continue to slide and ultimately missed the play in.

That's what they did last year. And I got to tell you, Rajah, and Kai can attest to this, being from the DFW, the seat that Jason Kidd currently occupies is flaming hot at this moment. I don't even know they can sit there right now. It's ridiculous.

If the Mavericks miss the playing, are you bringing J.Kid back? Is the writing on the wall? Are we already here? Where are we at? Can you even, if you're Nico Harrison, if you're Mark Cuban, can you look him in the eye and be like,

yo, I feel you. We got you all these pieces, but you just couldn't figure it out. But, I mean, you know what? We'll give you another year. The answer to that is no. Now, I would say on the flip side of that, I think that they'll figure this out. I don't think that they're going to slide. I mean, I just don't.

I don't think that they're going to slide all the way out. But if you were, and it's not just because you didn't make the playoffs, although that's a part, I mean, obviously that's a thing. But it's because it would be the way you didn't make the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, you're not going to really have a choice if you're Mark Cuban and Nico Harrison. and something has to be done. The other part of that is another coach is on the hot seat.

And I lost a little bit of this I watched the highlights. Like I went to the game, once the Warriors' Bucks game, then got home. You know that you would appreciate this, Rajah. You know the adrenaline rush that has to come down

after you play or watch a game? So I get home about like 11 o'clock, just went to just watch straight highlights. And I saw just as I'm just trying to get myself to sleep. watch the Lakers Kings. I mean, honestly, it was almost like melatonin because it just, it just was like,

it would put me right. The performers in the Lakers just put me like, I was like, oh, okay, I'm fast. I was asleep by the end of the 10 minute highlight. But the Lakers are in this position right now where I think they, they're six and four in the last 10, but they haven't been playing well at all.

If you look at their, just how they have slid the rotations from Darwin Ham has really pissed off the Lakers fan base all season, but specifically last night. They're up, they're up 19 or 20 points against the Kings, who have regressed to the mean, but are still within the thick of the Western Conference playoffs.

They go up 20 on the Kings in a game that they have to have, could get some games on them, and then lose the lead, lose the game, and then lose the tiebreaker over the Kings when you need it the most. If you're the Lakers, turns this way,

you're in a playing scenario, which it seems like they're going to be. I don't see at this point of what I've seen with the Lakers that they're capable to make a run to get out of the playing. So say they stay in the plan, stay at 10.

They got to win two games to stay in the, to get into the regular postseason. If they don't figure that out, you got to part ways with Darwin Ham, right? Like, it's too far gone at this point. He's on the, I think he's on a hotter seat than kid is.

If you coach LeBron and you're not winning championships or playing in, you know, in Western Conference final after Western Conference final or final after final, you're going to be on a hot seat. It's just what it is. Whether that's fair or not, whether I could sit here and tell you that the roster isn't built to support them all the way or they need this piece or that piece, that's besides the point. You're always going to be on a hot seat. And so, yes, if the Lakers stumble their way down the stretch and it's a very disappointing miss of the playoffs or, it's a disappointing exit in the playing game or they get rolled in the first round. Yeah, I think you're going to, that's what you're going to want to see.

What do you think you're rolled in the first round by a catless Timberwolves team? Darvinham, in fairness, I have not sat down and broken down every decision he's made or, you know, I wasn't watching the games necessarily just to see Darwin Ham's. And so I don't, his acumen as a coach. So I don't want to say that I can definitely say that he's failed them because I can't. But I know the pressures of coaching on a team that LeBron is on and the expectations that come with that. And if you get rolled by a Catalyst Minnesota team, yeah, they're going to be calling for your head. And I think the Lakers are going to be forced.

I mean, there was already pressure even when things weren't that bad. I mean, how he's been, his job's been in jeopardy since he got the damn job. Yeah. I was in LA last week, bro. It's tough right now. They are, Laker fans are sick and tired of Darvin's shit. Their words, not mine.

They're so sick. Fans, everyone in between, just sick of them. It's just, it's a tough time. I would not want to be Darwin here right now. They see him way more than me.

So I don't mean to, if you're a Laker fan listening and you don't think I'm giving them enough blame, I apologize. I just want to be fair in that. I haven't watched a Laker season the way a Laker fan has watched it. And so if I haven't done that, I can't sit here and tell you that the man is not doing a good job. You know what I mean?

Like that's just, I can't do that to you. Our guy, Jomey, isn't since. It was all on to say. Just sensed. I don't know what he's coming on again. He's really Hollywood. He's a midnight boy now. Pupu.

He don't even rock with us no more. So I don't even know if we can bring him on to talk. He's Hollywood. Jomey, good for you, dude. Let's live in a world where he's not. I agree. He's not doing a good job. Let's say I've conceded. Not doing a good job.

Like, whatever. I would just ask you this. You go, you go and fix dinner tonight. Right? As one does. You're cooking. No, but you're cooking for the family. Like, you got people coming over.

Like, you, you're about to chef it up. All right. You go to the grocery store and there's no fresh ingredients at the grocery store. There's nothing that looks like it would be like really good to throw a dish. Like the ingredients are going to be poor. You might have some stars at a show. Like you might, you might have a nice piece of steak. LeBron, you got a filet there. You got you got something else to go with it and eat. But let's say the rest of it. And they're like, hey, man, we want a, we want a full meal. Not just like we want a full meal, though. You got to put it all together where we leave this

thing saying, man, he's he's checked every box, which is what you got to do to win games. Yeah. Like you, you know what I mean? Like it can't just be, hey, man, you got a filet. This has got to be what's with the filet? Yeah. What wine are we parent? with what goes with the filet. What is for dessert? Yes. And this whole meal experience was fantastic. So if you can't accomplish that because the ingredients-

Are you a red or a white guy, Roger, real quick. Are you-r-I'm a red? I'm a red. I'm a white guy myself. There go. There's, all right. Okay. But like if we're missing the ingredients and then you got a shitty bottle of wine and all

of that, like that experience isn't going to be great and you can't accomplish what you're supposed to be able to accomplish as chef Logan. basically the exact opposite of what a Suns reunion catered event would be right it's just that's what that's what the spread that we're talking about yes yes exact opposite because boo would let that happen boomer would never let that happen have a trash bottle of wine dude

you go to Boris's charity events not to turn this into it I mean the burgundy is flowing man like we are you are you're a French seven course meal it's an experience but I said all of that just to just, you know, to kind of be cheeky, but also like, look, the man I have everything he needs to win a championship.

So yes, you could say that he doesn't know his lineups and he's doing this and he's doing that. All of the complaints that I hear from Laker fans. And that's fair. But it's also fair to say that even if he had all that buttoned up, that team is not a championship team. Hey, you can't shine shit, Roger. Let's take a quick break. And I don't know what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about it.

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Shout out to the Milwaukee Buck fan at Chase Center who shouted out the pod. Oh, word. early in the, when I got to chase like 4.30 and I saw him like maybe an hour later. It's like, real ones. We love our fan base, bro.

Absolutely. I don't know. Like I said, we wake up, I woke up at 8 o'clock this morning for 8.30 record. Roger didn't come on the pod till 9 o'clock. Still had the sleep in my eyes. You know, we just get up in the morning. We just talk. So we really just really appreciate that.

No doubt. We appreciate all the homies. You know, all the real ones worldwide. I all the shit's bite. Anyways, I wanted to talk about, I lied in the last segment when I said I didn't know what I was going to talk about because we were going to talk about Mr.

Ben Simmons. I told Raj's in the pre-pod that we were going to talk about him. You guys can't see, but this man is doing wussas. His eyes are going to the back of his head. He's just trying to summon the strength to

to produce a 28-minute conversation about Ben Simmons. Raja, that we talk about, you know, being good to the game and it being good back to you. And I'm just going to say over the last couple of years, there's a lot of nuance to this. There's all these things. But I don't think Ben Simmons has been good to the game. And it has not been good to him. And we are at this impasse right now where the man is just a complete shell of himself. I don't even know how many games he's played.

I probably can count them on two hands this year. Sorry, I haven't been watching much of the Brooklyn. That's when I was in Brooklyn. He was not playing. I had a great outfit on, though. But when you look back at the legacy of a Ben Simmons, so much talent, dude. I think about his run at LSU, his first few years in Philly. It's unrecognizable now.

when you look back on what he has done so far, what do you think, Raja, what comes to mind, what is on your spirit, let it out. I have mixed emotions, as I frequently do.

What comes to mind is what could have been the talent, the size, skill combination, the physicality, the IQ. I mean, he had a lot of boxes checked.

And I use had because, you know, I just don't know where he, he's at physically right now. So it's just disappointing that we didn't get to see what that was going to turn into. There's a part of me that feels angry. Like if I put myself in his teammate seat, you know, I probably to some degree would be kind of pissed.

There's also a part of me that feels a little sad for him because, in fairness, I'm not there every day. I don't know if this is something that he's going through tireless, grueling, workouts and rehab and treatment and making every genuine effort to get out there on the court and his back just won't cooperate. And if he's doing that and it won't cooperate, then I'd feel sad for him. I'd feel bad. So I really do have just a whole range of emotions in regards to it.

But ultimately, it's just disappointing because before that playoff meltdown in Philly, before that playoff meltdown, I considered him in the top, I don't know, the top portion of players in the league and at minimum on a trajectory to be that just because of the things that he could do. Now, he was always going to be challenged

to shoot the ball and whatnot, but he was really, really talented. And so it's really hard to watch, man. And then, you know, the component, I don't know. Like, I don't know how much of it. We've had physical issues with him, Logan. Yeah. There have been mental health.

issues with him at one point, Logan? There's been a lot going on. So what to point the finger at and what to blame and how to categorize the disappointing 15 game season that he's currently played. I don't know what's fair. But overall, man, it's just disappointing. And I hope I did that okay because I really don't know. I mean, again, mental health, not making, you know, light of any of that. And so want to be fair to it, it's just been kind of disappointing me.

It's just sad. I think all of it is just sad, man. I mean, you kind of just saw his downfall. It's tough with this stuff, bro, because a lot of times the stuff that, like, normal civilians, like, myself, like, can deal with these issues in private or can deal with, like, just coming of age or, like, your flaws and all these things in private. Ben Simmons don't got that luxury, you know?

And, you know, you hear the whispers of just things that may have happened, may not have happened. And then also, like, you see the. play, which is just true. Like, a guy of Ben Simmons' his talent level, the production is supposed to drop off this drastic. The only caveat, and you're probably not at an age where you would know this, and that's why it's weird, my back

doesn't cooperate with me all the time. And so, when you're fucking back, excuse the F-bomb, but when that fucking back is not working, it doesn't matter what your skill set is, because you, it is a really debilitating thing. I'm ever covering Steve Kerr's old ass

during his back troubles. Yeah, man. You know, you're friend of the show. Come back. Just how bad that was in real time, right? He's a lot older than Ben Simmons. You can't walk. It's so unpredictable.

Like, when you get surgery, at times it makes that worse, whatever you're going through. It's a tough battle to get through. And so on the court, I do feel for Ben Simmons. There's also been the component, though. And I don't know if this is fair or not. But there's always been a narrative that, like, maybe he doesn't care as much as the, and that's always been on a even pre-injury and pre pre during his 60s career when he was playing really well it was always a guy that people thought right they was always explained to and I'm sure you've heard this as well love there's guys like this all the time in the NBA guys that love the NBA life more than they love playing basketball yeah that's the turn off right and that was always something that and you've I know you've heard this this has always been the narrative on Ben Simmons He loves everything that comes with the game.

Like everything that we said before this is valid, but that's also been hindered him his whole career. It's a great point. Probably the only point. And the only point in why he's viewed like that, because there have been many people coming to the NBA and because of injuries have a promising career derailed. And you never get to see what that finished.

I mean, I guess Brandon Roy lasted longer, but even Brandon Roy was robbed of what could have been because of the knees and stuff. So that's not all the way far-fetched for that to happen in a league that's been around as long as the NBA has. But you are correct. And let me just reference when I went to see Steve when he was still coaching the Brooklyn Nets. And we went down there to see him and I was hanging out with David Vantropool and those dudes. And Ben Simmons was not playing.

This was when I don't know what was going on, but he wasn't playing. And if I'm being honest, now this is from a player who never, or very rarely at least, would be judging someone. after a game hanging out with some friends just shooting the shit. Because I've been injured, legitimately injured. And just because I didn't play in this game doesn't mean that I can't go see my family who was in town to see the game and have a good time with them after the game. Like that doesn't mean I can't do that. But I would even tell you as that same guy who understands that dynamic that I had a really

weird feeling watching him after the game because he looked fine. It looked like it didn't matter at all. He had his people around. There were multiple people around. It just looked like it looked like vibes were good and high. And it did. It did rubbed me the wrong way. So it's funny.

I hadn't even thought about that until you just said that. But that shit rubbed me the wrong way. He looked like he looks like he loves being a star. Like everything comes up being a star. That's why here's another thing. There's a reason why certain people don't get benefited in doubt. And Ben Simmons is one of those guys that does not get benefited of doubt. And I'm just saying like he has gone through.

his issues. I think he's been a little transparent what's going on. We don't know everything that happened and that's not our business always to know. Sure. But the reason why he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt is because there's been so many examples littered throughout his career where it doesn't feel like he cares

as much as you would want a franchise guy to care about these types of things. And again, I think this all goes to the, like you're saying care, it's a big word because you can care in different capacities. Like you're caring about your team and trying to be the best for your team

and caring about the work that goes into being the best for your team and then caring about a career like care just we can apply it to everything and so ultimately when we're saying care with him where it gets to is he don't care how it looks to anybody like it doesn't you're not even going to you're not even tripping off of that there's no effort to be like this actually

this is all the thing like trick me man Yeah. Trick me. I don't give a damn if you don't care. Don't let me know that. Put on the show for me. I'm that dude. You ain't got to show me everything.

You don't have to show me that you could care less about whether you're playing or not. And so he doesn't do that. It's just weird. I'm not angry at him. I know it sounds like it. But it is really fascinating because I played with dudes. Boris Diao is a great example of this. I mean, Boris came off like he did not care.

because Boris was very worldly. He had a lot of, he had a lot of other interests. He was a foetog. I mean, he skis and, and he loves scarves. For no reason. Dude, the guy, he, he sails around the globe from port to port.

I mean, he's got, he's, he's into everything. But his teammates knew he cared when it mattered. He just might not have, like, lived and breathed everything that was being written about the suns because he had other stuff going on. Here's a difference, though, between Boris, though. If you needed Boris to play great minutes defensively on the Brono and NBA finals, boom, there. Always there.

I could never say that about Ben Simmons. And he's 27 years old. He can prove us wrong. He could have a late stage of his career. Me too. But at this stage, right now. So wait, so let me, let me, let me real quick, because that's what I was trying to say, look, I played with dudes like, like Boris. Boris isn't, Boris was the best one that gave you that kind of.

effect that that wasn't true. But I played with some that weren't very good that had that same affect. And you really question. None of them project to me like Ben Simmons looks at times. Like that's a whole other, a whole other animal. And that's not, again, to take anything away from whether this is a real, you know, impinged nerve in his back or any of that.

But it just, he just doesn't seem to really care. That's what, yeah, that's what sour. Like, that's what sour. Brooklyn on him when he was last year when Durant and Tyree were on the team right? Like that's what soured them

like yo you're not going to it doesn't even seem like you're working hard enough to get back at this point. You know and just the quotes that he has just been making just has to put action behind his words. Like I hope that it figures itself out. You know, he did a lot. He's making a lot of money. Shout out to him for doing that. But like now it's

just it's brothers stop laughing. Trying to make a point here, bro. What are you doing? What are we doing? I'm sorry. Shout out to him for doing that. I hear you, bro.

That's good work. That's what's up, bro. Like, listen. 15 for 15 of them? What do you play last year? Don't let me get me started. I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.

Not even my style. I'm not going to do that. Yeah. Hey, it's fine. Listen, shout out to him. Get into the baggage claim. No doubt.

But, like, if you can, if you want to continue to live like this, I'll have to say on the Vince Simverson. If you're going to continue to want to live this lifestyle and want to be the man and wear like stunner shades and indoors and continue to be in the league, you're going to have to at least show you have a work ethic. Whether you have a bad back or not. You can't have these all these whispers.

Every time you come to town, Ben doesn't give a fuck. That's all it is. That's all we're saying. That's really all. is. Is that what you were trying to say in a buttoned up way, Roger? Is that what you were basically trying to say? Yeah, that was boiled down to the bones.

I appreciate that. Make no mistakes. Forgive me. I don't have his contract in front of me. But when it is up, it's going to be very, very, very, very, very, very difficult. To be quiet. To convince anybody

to give him anything of significance to play basketball. That minimum you think? Probably that minimum. Yeah. I mean, unless there's time left on the deal, he comes back,

he keeps playing well, and he's, you know, on the court for, I don't know, 65, 70 games a year. Like if that,

that could change the narrative. But the way this is trending, hell, what? He just has to be trusted. And I don't think the best ability is what, Raja?

Availability, my brother. Fucking right. Fucking right. Raja came on the call and now we're 46 minutes in. we're just going to you know we're shooting the shit here raja came in 30 minutes 30 minutes out of the fact uh crazy part was i wasn't doing anything man

that's the funniest part that's the crazy part i was sitting on the couch just like trying to check in from my car rental in in new Orleans later today and uh look at his phone didn't even look at the phone people don't believe that about me i guess but i really i i could go a couple days without checking a text message raja's raja for everybody if you trying to get a hold of Raja. Raja is a terrible textor. Communicator.

Emailer. I'm a terrible email. I'm a terrible. He'll text you like randomly about his about his kids or he'll just or during the playoffs, which is my favorite. He will rarely text to me. What the fuck is this dude doing?

No context. Absolutely no context to the group chat. What the hell is what we can do it? And then we'll send a response trying to have like a conversation. he'll send one of those like emojis like with like he'll send a fist emoji or he'll send like the clouds coming out of the nose emoji right all that to say I'm excited for the playoffs I'm excited for else coming up anyways let's get to let's get to let's get to row of the week roger I'm just going to do rowing of the week first because I know you're not going to pick this one and I know you don't have one yet let's go I'm going to go with 21 Savage who put out an album out recently that I have been listening to for the last month. It's been great.

The thing is, Roger, I have, I listened to it while I write now. I used to be a guy that listened to like some, you know, some slow jazz when I write, maybe some, you know, Badoo's first album and her second album. But just like, you know, just a vibe just to get going. No, right now, I'm listening to 21 Savage's new album, The American Dream. I'm listening to The American Dream. all the way through every single day of my life because good for you that gets me through and

I'm in writing mode right now and everybody who knows me when I'm in writing mode to get a little cranky but 21 Savage is kind of ease that crankiness because I can never be as cranky as he is on record so shout out to 21 Savage also quick thing sign up to schoolboy Q also put out an album blue lips love that album shout out to him rowing at a week 21 Savage I don't know mentioned Hoover Q school boy Q I'm just messing it all the way up but we hear No, no, none at them. I mean, I know 21 Savage, I think. You don't know, schoolboy Q?

At what point? No, this is another question I got to ask you. And I've been meaning to ask you this. What? This is the point of my life right now, Raju. And tell me this, because you're older to me and you're a big bro and you give me guidance when I need to, when I need it. Yeah.

I'm starting to, I'm at the stage in life, and I need your guidance on this to how to get through the states. I'm at the stage in life right now where I'm listening to 50 Cent at Trader Joe's. And Miniman is playing. real tough while I'm in the in the produce aisle. If I can't is playing when I'm in the cheese aisle. What does that say about my current life space right now? Says you're in a good spot, man.

You know what you like. You get to a point where, I mean, I did. I wasn't interested in much new from a musical scene. But I feels weird, Roger, because I'm no longer in the environment where like, Get Richard, I try and applies. Yeah, I know. But I try to listen, especially, you know, I went through a phase. when my kids were really little,

where I didn't have anyone introducing me to any new music. Because I'm not, like, I'm not on the radio anymore. So it's not like a DJ is going to be like, yo, check this out. I'm not doing that. I'm on like, you know,

I'm on a play on this. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm only hearing what I want to hear. So I'm not getting introduced to anything. And now the kids start coming up and they're introducing me to some stuff. And I was,

you know, I'd be on the way to football practice a few years ago. We're tying, his homies. We'd have like a 35 minute ride and we're DJing. And we had a little game where you got, You know, everybody in the car got a veto. Like, if you ain't like the song, you got the veto one. And I'm like, yo, I need more because I can't listen to this shit.

I can't do it. Like, I don't know what this is. So I'm just, like, there comes a time in every man's life, Logan, where. So are you listening to 50 cent in Trader Joe's now? Is that where you're at right now? Are you locked in? Yeah, man. I'm, I'm all, I mean, 50 cent and that era of rapper are kind of like the last ones that I'm really tapped into.

Okay. You know, like those, those, those albums. I'll get to my real one of the week. Yeah, go ahead. I had a couple candidates, man, but I think it's not even I think. This is, this is the only one that could could really, you know, be the logical choice for this. He's been on here before. It's my young nephew, which is my college teammate's son, Jordan Durkak, who plays at Merrimack College

up in Massachusetts. And Jordan, just back story, was caught in the COVID backlog of high school kids that couldn't really get a scholarship to play in college, although he was a really good player. I brought him down here to Nova Southeastern. It was like, hey, I think you guys could steal this kid. They're a very good D2 program. You know, he came down. They saw him. He was fantastic.

I watched. They told him, man, he could walk on. So he went to Spire, did well at Spire. Is that Merrimack? he's a sophomore this year. He just won player of the year in the conference and defensive player of the year in the conference. And I'm just really proud of him because

last year as a freshman, when I'd watched the games, he played well. He was all freshmen, but I didn't really see how this was going to happen for him in the way that they played. And kudos to his coach and their staff as well because they lost some players. And they kind of reinvented themselves offensively a little bit

and it provided him a little platform to kind of show, you know, showcase and do some of the things that he's really good at. And he's worked his tail off to get really good. And he's hungry and he's got that little chip that we all need. And it was a big year. They won last night. They beat,

it beat Rod Strickland and him last night at home in the first round of the Northeastern Conference, Northeast Conference tournament. But a phenomenal week, man. Player of the year and defensive player to year as a sophomore. Let's go. Real one. Let's fucking go.

All right. Shout out to the realist. Raja, as he was doing that real one, already screened a car. call and declined it. So just everybody know that he's terrible with phones. A little housekeeping.

Make sure you tap in for our mailback. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. Every Monday we're doing mailbags. We're going to have Howard Mother Effing Beck on Monday for Mother Effing Mondays. And yeah, check out all our stuff. I was on tape Fraser show last week with Jomey. I was in L.A. chilling with them. make sure you tap into that through the ringer.

You can see that on ringer TV. And yeah, also shout out to Justin Sales and Charles Holmes. I talked about schoolboy Q on the podcast. We did it. We made it happen. I think that's it. So see you guys. Real ones mailbag.

Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. Talk to you guys soon. Tap in out. Bye. Must be 21 years and older in president's select states. Fandle is offering online sports wagering and Candace under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800

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