The Ringer NBA Show - The Timberwolves Force a Game 7. Plus, Discussing the Possibility That JJ Redick Will Coach the Lakers. | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 17, 2024

Logan and Howard are back to dive into all things related to the second round of the playoffs, starting with the Timberwolves' 45-point win against the Nuggets (02:00). Later, the guys try to make sense of all the JJ Redick head-coaching rumors (34:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Howard Beck Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill Simmons, I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck. Because every episode of The Rewatchables and The Big Picture, now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables, as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history, and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving ringer personalities. Search Ringer movies on YouTube and Experience the Joy, Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera.

It was popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck there. Howard, live from Spotify Studios in New York City. I'm very jealous right now. I miss the studios. You have great views of Manhattan. I have great views of the rest of my room. So we are here on a Friday on the morning after the Minnesota Timberwolves Force A Game 7. We're going to talk a little bit of Game 7. potentially in that series, we're also going to talk a little Knicks Pacers. And then we are going to talk what his coaching courtship means for coaching courtships in the league today. Did I get that right? Howard, did I do that?

Was that, did I get, did I, did I stick the landing on that one? Yes, absolutely. Okay. Was I convinced him? I don't know. coaching courtship, that's hard to say. Coaching courtship and what it means for coaching courtship in the rest of the league. That's where we're at right now.

I think the mistake is trying to squeeze that phrase into the same sentence twice. Yeah. And I ain't even right. That was off the dome too, you know. So I think I should get kudos for that. I just want to just do a full disclaimer. We don't know what our real one of the week is yet, but I just want to put a disclaimer out there. The Kerm tried to punk me to be a two-time real one of the week, which I don't know.

how I feel about that. Let's see if he earns that through this production today's pot. Anyway, let's start with segment one. I want to talk Timberwolves and Nuggets. We're entering a game seven. The game six was pretty irrelevant other than the fact that the Timberwolves one. I texted Howard yesterday. Like, hey, man, thinking about talking Timberwolves Nuggets, what do you want to talk about? He's like, I get a text back, which was the most disheartening thing to text to get when you're trying to produce a rundown which is, I don't think we have much to talk about today because it was such a blowout.

That was like it's the second quarter. I don't think I was quite that dismissive in my defense. So now I have to pull up the text. So I said, this game might take 30 seconds to recap LOL. That is not quite the same as there's other to talk about. So like, come on. Let's be accurate here. I just said like you, you can't recap like a 45 point.

blow it or whatever. Like, it's a 45 point. There's nothing to recap it, except that Timberwolves good. Nuggets bad. Game 7 good. Yeah. Straight up. So I did what I always do when I don't necessarily want to talk about the game,

which is I wanted to talk about the ramifications of such game and the ramifications going into a game 7. And when I think about this game 7, specifically with this series, right, because you have, anytime you have a series that involves the champ of a previous year and a team seemingly on the rise to go together, there tends to be these types of, you know, ramifications or the question that comes up of what does this series mean? And I think about that with this series where you do have the reigning MVP, but also you have a Nuggets team with multiple championship aspirations.

And, you know, I've seen as this series has played out, and I'm thinking, like, well, what if the, what if the Nuggets end up winning this series and they go to the conference finals and they're on their way to another finals appearance scene, you know, depending on who they, who they match up with in the conference finals? And I see if the Timberwolves win, what this means for, you know, how maybe they've stumped the dynasty before it's even been able to, you know, bear fruit because that, you know, you covered the Lakers. That second title is very vital and whether a team is a dynasty or is it just a team that won a championship that was really, really talented. So I'm thinking about all of these

ramifications and I'm wondering what your take on it is. I want to give my take on what this means. But what do you think the immediate ramifications are going into this game seven for each team? Well, look, the stakes are, I think, much higher for the nuggets than for the Timberwell. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. That's not exactly a flaming hot take. You know, winning a championship is great. Every team that I've ever covered that won a championship, the immediate thing is we want the second one to sort of validate the first one.

And it's not that the first, you know, you can win a solo championship and still be, still be an all-time great, still be legendary. Nothing negates the championship. But everybody wants staying power. everybody wants to feel like the legacy whatever that word might mean is something that is is tangible and enduring and and also that that is just you know undismissible if I could choose that word like when you win only one like if yadas goes the rest of his career without winning another one he's still going to be an all-time great and he's still going to be

an incredibly unique player, a superstar, a guy who won multiple MVPs, all that stuff. But we're going to look a little bit differently at a team and a superstar who only won won one. It's just kind of the way these things go, especially when you're at that level, right? Like that the 2004 Pistons only won one, only one. Like it's hard to win even one. And they go back to the second year. They lose to the Spurs.

But the stakes maybe were it as high for a team. that did not have anybody who ever won MVP or was even in the running for MVP, right? Chauncey Billves, Ben Wallace, Rashid Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Tashon Prince. Like that's a group that wasn't expected to even win one. But in this case, you know, look, Yokic was already bearing the burden before winning the championship of, oh, he's a two-time MVP. How could you win two in a row? How could you possibly win three in a row if you don't win a show?

Okay, he won the championship. Now the third MVP in four seasons, people don't question it as much. Again, these, of course, are separate things, but people conflate it all. And if they lose in the second round here to a very good Minnesota Timberwolves team that feels built specifically to beat the Nuggets, yeah, there are going to be people who are going to now look askew again at them. But I think it's bigger than that, Logan. When I think of the consequence for the Nuggets losing game seven, it's less about the validity of a championship or of an era or a player, Nikola Yokic, because they can always come back and win more later, right?

The spurs never repeated, you know, but they went, you know, every couple of years, they'd win another one. To me, I'm more concerned with if they lose in the second round, it's how does everybody react within the organization? It's, do they want to keep this core together? Do they suddenly see a flaw? Did they decide not to re-sign KCP for some reason? Do they decide that, you know, they need to start making changes?

Are they, does it raise concerns about chemistry? Does it raise concerns about coaching? I'm not putting this on Michael Malone at all. I'm just saying these are the, these are, this is a checklist of stuff that, that teams go through when you fall short. So my, my concern for the Timberwolves, or excuse me, for the Nuggets is less about do they need this championship to vindicate or validate the first one? More about does it set off some change? reaction that that pulls them apart and maybe ruins what they had that got them there a year ago. Yeah.

And I think even adding to that, like, you know, when you lose in that and the fashion, and I think in this modern NBA specifically when we talk about, you know, luxury taxes and we talk about, you know, hard-ish caps. I know the NBA has a soft cap, but I think that luxury cap, I mean, the luxury tax is really putting a burden on these teams, right? And it causes teams to have to make so many different decisions on the fly. And maybe this loss is if the nuggets do lose, right? And again, they are going back home for a game seven. Chances are, you know, it's more chances that they win as opposed to they lose going into a game seven. But if they do lose, what you see typically,

in this modern NBA is the pivot and the, some would say panic moves and things of that nature. Do you, I don't, but I don't know if that is, would the answer be with this Nuggets team if when they lose? Is it that we don't have what it takes to win a title anymore? Or is it that, you know, the Timberwolves were just a really good team? And I think it's the, and I think it's the latter, which is the nuggets are a really good team that that hit their start at the right time with the right player and all these things.

But I don't think that that would necessarily mean that the Nuggets can't contend. What side do you think that the Nuggets would choose if they do lose? Is it, oh, man, where is it panic like a lot of other teams? Because I don't necessarily see that either. I think when they were down O2, it was natural to wonder whether something was just missing. Right now, is it just Jamal Murray's banged up and KCP was banged up? the demeanor though, the vibes just seemed off. And then just when we're ready to start drawing conclusions, of course, they storm back and went two in a row.

And the bottom falls out last night. This is why you can't overreact to any one moment or game. But I think if you're the organization, you're looking at those moments and saying, okay, but is this telling us something? And if you lose game seven at home, what is that telling us? So like I I say I don't want to run wild with this But if whatever made you special one year got you the championship

Because again let's back up To something I've said multiple times since the championship The Nuggets have less margin for error than a lot of historic champions They have one super duper star an all-time great a transcendent generational player Nicola Yokic and a bunch of guys who fit really well around him none of whom have made an All-Star team, including Jamal Murray. And Murray's series has been all over the map to say the least. And, you know, he's probably really lucky that he wasn't suspended for a game after, you know,

throwing a heating pad on the floor in the middle of the game. And so if that's the case, if we can take it as a given, and I do, like I take it as a given, that this team has less margin for error than a lot of historic champions. And in the era we're in, there's a lot of teams built this. way with one superstar and just good role players around them, then when it does work, it's because everything fit together perfectly. Yokic lifts all boats and everybody plays their role to the hilt. When they don't all do that and you start thinking about your margin for error and maybe somebody becomes available elsewhere in the league who you think is an upgrade

at one of those positions. And now it's not that same starting lineup maybe that we saw win the title. Now it's, you know, I don't even, I'm not even want to throw in hypotheticals, but like maybe there's somebody else you go out and acquire because you think the only way to get back to the title is to actually upgrade the talent and not rely just on yokech lifting all boats. If that makes sense. I do wonder like, you know, with the, with the luxury tag ramifications going forward in the league, like I do wonder if we're going to, we're probably going to start seeing more teams like the Nuggets and what does that mean? Like does that legislate

dynasties out of the league because of, you know, like, because they're, you know, a team is so hint pecked in the amount of all-stars or Mac, not all-stars, max-salary slots that they can offer, right?

Are they going to, because on the one hand, you get the very deep or you get the team with one all-stars surrounded by really, really good role players because the negative. aren't necessarily deep. But do you have those types of teams

and you build out your bench and you're relied upon one really, really good multi-all-star MVP winner? I'm talking about it in terms of a champion. Or do you go the, you know, we've seen the Phoenix Suns is the other side of this coin where, you know, you do get three max slots,

but you can't really round out the roster. And because you can't run out the roster, you can't have, you know, you have a glaring flaw that no one can really, you can't really, you can't really feel like the front court of Phoenix. Like, I don't know,

I think the Nuggets model is going to win every single time if you compare those two teams. But are they going to be able to win during a long window in the way that, you know, the NBA is built on those dynasties? Are we going to see a pendulum shift where we're going to see, are we going to go back to the 70s,

where we see, you know, alternating champions. And is that going to be good or bad for the league? Like, where do you see that? How does that, how do you think that that works out in the next decade or so? I'm asking you to, in a roundabout way, to give a prediction, Howard, without telling you that I'm giving you a prediction yet I just told you that I'm telling you to give me a prediction. We already have a five-year run here where we've had a different champion crown for five

straight seasons. And that hadn't happened since the late 70s. And the 70s are the only decade in NBA history that did not. have a dynasty. So we're already in a place here where today's NBA is sort of replicating the 70s. A better version of it, the 70s weren't necessarily the best of times in the NBA for all kinds of reasons. But five straight different champions, and if the nuggets don't repeat, we're going to have, let's see, I'm just double checking here. Yeah, it will be a sixth different team because nobody else who won

is going to repeat, right? You know, Raptors are out, Lakers are out, Bucks are out, Warriors are out. So we'll have six different champions in six years if the Nuggets lose game seven. And I do think it's indicative of the era. Now, the new CBA just kicked in within the last

year or so, so it's not entirely that, but we were already trending in that direction. And, you know, the fact is, too, a lot of these championships in recent years, you know, Toronto, was built around Kauai, who immediately left, but is also, you know, an older veteran with injury issues. The Lakers win the next one. LeBron and AD, you know, have had injury issues, and LeBron

was already late in his career. The Bucks, they had, it was a younger Janus, but, I mean, the supporting cast was already old. And then it was the Warriors making, like, that, that really unlikely run back in 2022. So none of these teams necessarily were built for longevity. And the Nuggets were the one, and I think this is why everybody rushed to anoint them as like, oh, here's the next dynasty. Partially because we're obsessed with dynasties in this league and we love dynasties. Can we think dynasties built this league?

Yeah, no, it's, it is the history of the league. I mean, literally going back to the beginning. And Denver felt young enough with guys under contractual control that there was no reason to think that this

would be short-lived. but I don't think people take into account enough the fact that it's when you don't have multiple stars as again most teams were built on right Stefan Clay Stephen Clay and Kevin Durant Shaq and Kobe Scotty and Michael Magic and Kareem and Jeremiah's very mad that she didn't say his name by the what's that. Draymond is very upset that she didn't say that's name and Draymond but you have multiple stars throughout history. And now the last few have not been built that way, including the Warriors in 2022. All respect to Clay and Draymond, they weren't the same guys.

That was like Steph and that supporting cast was closer to Janus in supporting cast in 2021 or Yokic in supporting cast in 2023 than it was what the Warriors did the first few times when those guys were all at their peaks. But Logan, this is where we are. and it's not that you can't build a super team, but what the sons have done is just build with the wrong max players. And, you know, that's a problem in and of itself. But it is harder now anyway.

But yeah, I, and even, we have this whole conversation at like two days from now, the nuggets might win game seven, and this is all irrelevant. And in a few weeks, they're winning another championship for all we know. But I'm just saying the margin for error is. slim and this is an era of hyper parity. Yeah. I do think this is going to go back, go down, you know, as one of the great all-time series, to be honest with you.

You know, it was at terms of regular, at terms of, you know, two stars, Anthony Edwards going up against Yokic. I've looked at Anthony Edwards' stats are just fucking bonkers in this series. Things average in like 30 on 55% from the field and 41% from three-point range. And then you have Nicola who has been an MVP once again throughout the series. And it went seven games. It pretty much gave us everything we'd want out of this series.

So it's been great. Another series that's kind of giving us everything we'd want it. Or, you know, giving us all of the heart has been something in your backyard. Nick's Pacers. And we're going into game six. Howard, you have been there. how the hell are the Knicks, every time we doubt them, every time we say, another body's on the floor and on the bench,

I don't know how they're going to be able to do this. They end up winning another game. How the hell are they doing this? And can they keep this up? I'm going to answer that in a second. One quick final thought on Denver, by the way, though. Every game is not a referendum on Nicola Yokic and his resume and his MVP. in his legacy. And if they lose this series,

it's not a fucking referendum either. Just like, stop with everything being like Yokic is either the greatest of all time or he's a fraud because they've now lost this. Like, every game in every series is not a referendum. Did you not know that every game in the NBA playoffs is a legacy game, Howard? Every game. Every single game

is a referendum on something. It's the take culture, man. What we need is a referendum. We need a referendum on takes. We need a referendum referendum on take culture and that it's the takes that have all failed and take the pendulum needs to swing to conversations just like random conversations not necessarily this is what's going to happen like yo man at the end of the day we don't know what the hell we don't know what the hell is going to happen so let's just let's just talk hoops man

stuff hoops the next are incredible like I just good Lord like we talk about like what great chemistry and great vibes or just the spirit of a team can do for you. It's like all these intangibles. Like we can break down X's and O's till the, you know, freaking cows come home. But like the Knicks aren't winning on X's and O's necessarily. And they're not winning on talent necessarily.

They're just winning because they play their fucking asses off. Like I mean, um, they play through injury. They play through 44 minute games. Josh Hart played 48 minute games. Um, they lose guys. They just keep going. It's incredible. It's absolutely incredible.

How was the garden right now? That's really what I want to know. How was the garden? The roof is blowing off. It's funny. Years ago, I was talking to Phil Jackson about his playing days. This was because he was about to go to the garden as the Lakers coach for the last time. And so I asked him to wax nostalgic, which he doesn't really do much of.

Where'd you fly to? Tell me the whole deal. What's going on? I love these stories. Where'd you go? The Lakers were in Boston. I met up with him at like the team hotel. I think we had like a lunch and chit-chat or whatever. But I wanted to do a story. This was at the time. I was at the time. I wanted to do a story about Phil Jackson being at the garden for the last time as coach. Because we knew it was his last season. And chances were he wasn't going to coach again. We obviously didn't know at that time that he was going to have an ill-fated stint as the next team president. And the thing he told me that always stuck out was he would remember. from his playing days that there were days

where it felt like the whole building was just vibrating like you could feel it in your knees like the floor vibrated everything but and that's how it's felt in this postseason every game I've been to and I've been to most of the home games the place is just electric and it's incredible and then

when the game ends Logan win or lose but especially when they win like all you hear in the concourses in the stair Are just Nix fans like chanting, cheering, fuck M. B. Chance. Oh my God. You know, go New York. Go chance. Let's go Knicks chance. Whatever. Like, they're just, it's like, just this moving party that goes from the seats to the concourse to the stairwells to the quarter of 33rd and 8th. Like, it's, they're out of control. It's, no, it's, the atmosphere is incredible. And I think it has an impact, right? I saw it last year where the cavaliers just looked absolutely.

deer in headlights. The Pacers at times have looked a little spooked by it all. You know, especially younger teams, just don't have no idea what they're walking into until they get there. But yeah, so the atmosphere is incredible. And the Knicks inspire that too, right? Like every freaking Isaiah Hartnstein offensive rebound that keeps a possession alive and then gets kicked out for a three or something, like the place just goes nuts. and I've said this many times, including on Through the Ringer

with Tate Fraser, which is up on the interwebs right now too, I think. But that, like, this team has a lot of the DNA from those 90s teams. Not the same build, not the same you know, overall. Like, it's not we're going to

just beat the shit out of you. The Knicks of the 90s, like only New Yorkers could love, I feel like, this team, I think a lot of people across the country actually have fallen in love with because of the way they play and they play so hard. But the commonality with the 90s is they don't have the most talent of anybody in the field. They're just going to outwork you out, hustle you. And you're going to, even if you're not a Knicks fan, you are going to end up admiring the way they play and the way they win. Well, you know, it's interesting.

Like, I think that like you said, the 90s team was a team that the only New Yorkers could love. But I feel like because that night those 90s teams existed, I feel like the rest of the country loves them even this current iteration of the group even more because, you know, we love nostalgia in this era. And we see a lot of, you know, this. I didn't really get to watch, you know, I'm like, you know, as you know, Howard, I'm like 12. So I didn't really get to watch that Nuggets. I mean, that, that next team of the 90s like that, like that. And this, this is like, my general. version of that. We've heard all the war stories from, you know, OGs like yourself about, you know, back when the Knicks. And now we get to see what it is up close, right? And it's been great. Like I, like, I talk to Dix fans all the time. I think they're, they're like my favorite postseason fan base, man, because you know how much I love. And, you know, when I was in New York, a few months ago, I just love New Yorkers arrogant. By the way, I didn't forget this. Hold on. I've been meaning to beaning to talk to you because I went on Twitter. of arrogance so that that's the segue Yeah, I went on Twitter the other day and I saw you, Mr. I'm going to make sure I bring this up.

What did I do? You, you forgot where the fuck you have come from, Howard motherfucking Beck. I am disappointed in you. I'm very disappointed in you. I saw, I'm going to go look, I'm going to get the tweet up. I'm going to go in right now. You said,

you were quote tweeting inside hoops and you said, slightly later start for tonight's 8 p.m. Eastern game. The person is referencing the game at the garden and says the second game is at 1030 Eastern. And Howard Beck quote tweets, NBA crimes against humanity for those who reside in the Eastern time zone, exhibit A. If only the listeners could see the disappointment and disgust on your face as you put your fingers over. Now, that is West Coasters, Howard used to be one of us.

Okay. He used to be, now he's over here complaining about eight o'clock start times because it's just, oh, my, everything that everyone gets on the East Coast, the East Coast bias, you can't wait 30 extra minutes. You can't do that. It's just disgraceful. It is disgraceful. Howard is from the Bay Area, San Jose, I believe, right? It was one of us covered the Lakers for years,

became a legend on the West Coast and then went to the East Coast and just got soft over here. It just became one of them, bro. This is just ridiculous. I don't know how to feel about this. Howard, you forgot where you came from. You're high in the clouds of Manhattan right now.

I don't know what the hell is going on. I'm disappointed in you, brother. All right. So, okay, first of all, I was covering the game that night. So part of this was just me being cranky reporter who knew that we weren't even going to get postgame interviews until like 1130. And I was going to be writing until 2, 3 in the morning. So there was a little bit of that.

There was a little bit of just like the later they start these games, especially in the playoffs on national TV with a thousand freaking commercials. By the way, the same three commercials over and over and over again. TNT playoff games takes 18 days. So this is, dude, this is what I'm saying. So, like, I'm already thinking about, like, the later start means I'm up that much later because I was writing off the game. So part of its total self-interest and selfishness there. Absolutely. Secondly, though, if I were at home watching, yes, now it's the battle to stay awake on the couch for the second game because that shits on until like one in the morning.

And, you know, listen, Logan, when you get to be my age. You'll feel it a little more, those late games, but you won't if you're still living on the West Coast. Dude, it's a struggle. The struggle is real. I remember when we first moved here in 2004, that was the year that was like Red Sox Yankees. And like, I don't watch baseball anymore. But back then I was like, oh, we just got to New York. And there's this epic series going on, whatever.

I could remember sitting there watching falling asleep in the middle of these. I was not used to this. Like on the East Coast, everything is later. World Series games, NBA games, everything. I was not built for this because it's the opposite. I was soft because I came from the West Coast where we could actually get to bed at an eastern hour having watched a full slate of games.

I remember the first time, it was 2016, that I had to watch a finals on the Eastern Time Zone. I was in Atlanta. Shout to my Latonia partners. I was staying in Atlanta for an internship. And it fucked me up because the game started at 9, clock. And I went even writing off of it. I was just watching the games. And I'm like, and it didn't end to like midnight, 1230. And that's light because it's, you know, it's, it's, it's,

that's, you know, I don't got to write or anything going to sleep. But I remember trying to watch post game from like game seven of the 2016 NBA finals. And it was just a drag. It was so bad. I probably fell asleep with the television on. I feel you, but also like, fuck that. All right. I should also note, by the way, since we're here. Because I may or may not have gotten a text from somebody after I tweeted that, that it was actually the NBA was trying to make room for Caitlin Clark that night on TV as well. And so that was part of the rationale or maybe the sole rationale for why the times,

why things have been pushed back a little bit. Sure. We ain't got our WMBA talk right yet. But Caitlin Clark is proving Diana Tarasi's words true in this first week of the of her WMBA career. That's going to be something fun to look at. Yeah, that was our Nix Pacers preview. No predictions.

We'll talk to you guys next week more about that at Howard's request. Any final words on Nuggets Pacers that you want to get out? Nothing else on Nick's Pacers other than I just feel like this has been a really fun series. It's been really intriguing. It's been great to see the Pacers kind of revive themselves after they were down at times. The Knicks have revived. Like, in both cases, both teams, I think in different ways, the resiliency has been incredible. And, like, I can't wait to see what Halliburton does as we're recording this.

It's tonight. I can't wait to see what Halliburton does because terrible game won. And everybody kind of, I think, had kind of counted him and them out. And he rallies back. And then he falls off a cliff again in a critical game five, which just absolutely disappeared. And it's, you know, with young stars, that's, that's what you like, you want to say, okay, like, they're going to stop. I don't fault him at all for this.

I think that we're seen in real time, like a budding superstar, like just figuring his way out through the postseason, right? Like, that's how it goes. It's a process to do that. Yeah. That's how it goes. And so that's why I flagged that in particular. Like, I can't wait to see.

Like, all right, is there another gear? Can he revive himself? Is something else going on? Is the moment too big? I don't know. But we're going to find out in a few hours. Let's do it. But I'm saying a quick break.

We're going to talk a little JJ Reddick. We might break Kerms Hard. We might break him in the next segment. This NBA playoffs fan duel is giving all customers two chances to bring home a big win with a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the playoffs. Just place an SGP on any playoff matchup, and you'll get bonus bets back if you don't win. Bet on everything from rebounds to assist to three-pointers and more. I've got my eyes on that big game.

game seven coming up between the Nuggets and Timberwolves, a lot at stake, a lot of legacies on the line here. Nuggets are a minus four and a half on the home court for game seven. Some intriguing subplots here. Aaron Gordon plus 410 to score 20 more points. You know the nuggets are always in great position when Aaron Gordon gets his shot going. And then, of course, triple double watch always with Nicola Yolkich. He's a plus 185 to get the triple double there. Visit Fanduel.com slash ringer NBA and shoot your shot on America's number one sportsbook.

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Fanduel.com. Hello, my friends at Rio Ones. This is Rob Harvilles speaking. Cavs fan. I want to address the rumors, which are true. I did have to suit up for the Cavs in game five due to all the injuries. I played off the bench. I played 13 minutes.

Went 0 for 4. I did get one rebound. It hit me in the face. I guess they counted that as a rebound. And I also scored two points, free throws, of course. Lots of NBA players have podcasts now. I am the first

ever podcaster to then play in the NBA. I'm very proud of that. We lost, obviously. And that's probably going to be it for my NBA career, and I'm at peace with that. I want to shout out Kerm, who asked me to record this message before the Cavs even

lost. The series to the Celtics is incredibly rude, and I will have my revenge. Anyway, good luck with the rest of your season. You know, I don't give a shit anymore, quite frankly. But, you know, you go have fun. All right.

All right. And we are back. I'm going to start a segment that me and Howard have been, I think, have been talking about a little bit off behind the scenes a little bit. And just I've talked to a lot of my friends about this behind the scenes. I haven't brought it to the pod just yet, just because things aren't being official. But reading the tea leaves now, it seems at this point at least as we were recording

on Friday, May 17th at 9.14 a.m. Pacific that JJ Reddick is going to be, is at least a front runner at this point to be the coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Sorry, Kerm and Jomey and everyone affiliated with who loves the Lakers. But it seems that, he is going to be, you know, at least in pole position at this point, right? And I wanted to have a conversation about the ramifications or just what, honestly, not even ramifications of his hire.

We can get into that a little bit if he is hired. But more of just what this says about how we evaluate coaches and the coaching, you know, how coaches become candidates and things like that. And it's interesting the rise of JJ Redick. You've seen it, Howard. We have talked about this in a different context, not necessarily for coaching, but just how he, what he means for just the current player analyst,

you know, these days. But he has had an interesting trajectory into wanting to be a coach and getting into the coaching ranks. He had an interview last year, I think it was with the Charlotte Hornets. And, you know, he has dabbled and dipped his toe into coaching interviews and coaching cycles. And we are in this space where we have hired, I mean, no, we, the NBA teams have hired coaches out of the broadcast booth. Steve Kerr's a great example.

Mark Jans is a great example. Doc Rivers is a great example. But this seems, this one seems a little bit different because at least in my, view of it, it seems like at least we're seeing in real time a person, if it is the Lakers, a person that has angled for a job, at least the appearance of a person that is angled for a job in real time in front of our eyes very publicly with the podcast that he has with LeBron, with the, you know, his proximity to the Lakers in that way. then if this happens, how that will manifest for a team that unlike when Doc Rivers was hired,

unlike when Mark Jackson was hired with the Warriors, and unlike when Steve Kerr was hired, this seems to be a person that is not hired necessarily to grow this group, but to get this group to the next level or get them to a title in a time where they have Asian superstars. And I don't know what to make of this, but it seems different, Howard, when this courtship seems different than other courtships of guys that have been behind the booth. What have you seen from how this has come together? And if he is a Lakers coach, ends up being a Lakers coach. What does this mean for coaching carousels going forward?

Yeah, I don't want to assume too much about whether he's the front runner. I mean, I know it seems like this is one of those situations. where there's a lot of smoke, and so we're going to assume there's fire. And it may well end up that way. In terms of like the way we got here, like, I don't know, are you, are we saying, I guess are you saying implying that JJ, there's a Machiavellian element to this where he starts the show with LeBron as as a means to like ingratiate himself and put himself in the running because he knew he wanted to coach and he knew that's a place he potentially wanted to coach? I mean, is it that deliberate and direct or is it just, I don't know. I think there's

the appearance of that. I don't know JJ and I don't know his intentions, but I would say that there is at least the appearance of that being the case for sure. Yeah. And people will view it, I think some people will view it through that lens and understandably, like it kind of looks that way through, through, um, it could look that way. I just think that,

uh, if JJ never coaches the Lakers, like the, the pod with LeBron was going to happen regardless. Like, whatever his, whatever JJ's aspirations are. I mean,

right now he's got, you know, his old burgeoning media empire, right? He's got multiple successful podcasts and his broadcasts career with ESPN, uh, as,

as one of their lead color commentators. Like he's, he's had a very rapid rise in the, the media space. And actually not that rapid. He started podcasting like seven, eight years ago or whatever it was, right? He's really good at that. And so I think that anything he could do to further expand his broadcast slash podcast

presence he was going to do. And the pairing with LeBron was the most natural thing in the world. Two total basketball geeks who love explaining this stuff and breaking down plays and who are very good at it. And I think they've been really good together. Like it's, so I think that I view that separately from this, this whole sudden coaching candidacy with the Lakers, though I understand why people would, would connect those two. I think it's, this is not unprecedented. You just listed some of them.

I was looking some of these up beforehand. I was going off, mostly off the top of my head in the time that I've been covering the league. The number of guys who went straight to head coach with no bench experience, you named a few. Danny Age in 96 was an assistant for all of eight games before Cotton Fitzsimmons retired and turned it over to Danny Age. And it didn't go great. Age won, he went 40 and 34, the rest of that way the first season, 56 and 26, and then 27 and 23 in the lockout season. And then 13 and 7 before he resigned. It's fine, but they never want a playoff series.

The records were good. They never want a playoff series. The next one was Larry Bird, Indiana, 1997. 58 wins the first year 33 wins in a lockout season with equivalent of like a 54 win season then 56 wins and goes to the finals

where the Pacers lost to the Lakers in 2000 Doc Rivers you mentioned straight from the broadcast booth to Orlando head coach in 99 he goes 41 and 41 that first season and wins coach of the year

they never get beyond 44 wins in his next three seasons it's all like the low 40s but they had zero talent when he took over. They had a pre-Ben Wallace, Ben Wallace on that 99-2000 team and just a bunch of guys. They were the first ever team, I think, to go, let's clear the cap and chase superstars.

And then in 2000, that's when they signed Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. They were trying to get Tim Duncan as well. And then Doc gets a few years of Team Mac at a broken Grant Hill. But they never want to playoff series. Isaiah Thomas, straight to head coach at Indiana after Larry Bird in 2000. 500 record the first year, 42 wins 48, 38, 23rd, or excuse me, 33, 23rd, took over a team with Reggie Miller and Jalen Rose, a young Germain O'Neill, a young Al Harrington, Jonathan Bender, who was supposed to be a stud, but couldn't stay healthy.

Year 2 run our test. Never won a playoff series. Mark Jackson and Golden State, 2011. we know what they did. Jason Kidd to the Nets in 2013 literally took off his Nick's jersey and was hired by the Nets the next day. That ain't great.

That did not end great. One year. One year, 44 wins. But it was the fake super team. It was the Darren Williams, Joe Johnson, Brooke Lopez, plus grafted on old Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce. And they won 44 games.

Listen, they did win an epic first round series against the Raptors. They lost two. The Hedels in the second round four to one. And then Kid bails out for Milwaukee. Rocky, rocky few years there. And Jason Kidd's looking pretty good in Dallas now,

but it's his third different team. Steve Kern, 2014, we know the deal comes in, wins four championships. He was terrible. Steve was terrible. No idea what he was doing. What was he doing?

Derek Fisher is the only other one of recent vintage. And that was Phil. Jackson wanted to hire Steve Kerr, and when Steve wisely took the Warriors job instead, Phil Jackson turned to Derek Fisher, who had just taken off his Oklahoma City Thunder jersey, 17 and 65, year 1, 23 and 31 before he was fired the second season. Yeah, he had some off-the-court stuff that we don't have to talk about, but that was, it was a really toxic tenure from Derek Fisher. Not going on any level.

No. But I bring those all up, Logan, just to know. note that like there is it's a mixed bag when you go this route. I don't know that there's a right or wrong here in terms of skipping assistant coach experience. My my just general gut tells me that though there have been some really successful versions of this, that it's better to pay your dues as an assistant coach for a year or two at minimum first for all kinds of reasons. But listen, if JJ Redick is tired by the Lakers or somebody else, and immediately succeeds for all the reasons that you would expect him to,

then it means nothing for me to sit here and say, oh, you should have gone and been an assistant for 15 years first. Right. You never know. But there are other candidates that have been named so far. Chris Quinn, former player, 10 years as an assistant with the heat. James Borregos, 15 years as an assistant plus four years as a head coach in Charlotte. Sam Cassell, 15 years as a player, 16 years as an assistant.

Mike Anori, 15 years as an assistant, David Adelman, 14 years as an assistant. I tend to think that that experience matters, but all you have to do is say, you know, Steve Kerr, Larry Bird, you know, I mean, listen, even Mark Jackson, like, okay, he didn't win titles, but like Mark Jackson got them from bad to good and put them in a place where Steve Kerr could get them to the next level with a different coaching style. but like you can find times of this worked and times it didn't. So I can't say definitively like you have to be an assistant coach first. Why do you think it's so alluring though for owners to, you know, or why is it so alluring for guys that have been on television to get a leg up on guy?

Because you just referenced Sam Cassell who I believe, and I think you referenced some other guys who I believe are in the, I know Sam Cassell is in the coach and starts for the. Lakers, right? But you mentioned somebody like him who has paid his dues and by all accounts, he did it the right way. He has the pedigree. He has been on the right staffs. And seems to be, every time I've seen him around, seems to be loved by the players that he's coaching. Why are front offices not more inclined, but are inclined to get a guy that they've seen on television more than they are inclined, or not more, but these cases more inclined to get a guy that has the assistant coach pedigree. Now, I think it's a little bit more even than we think it is, right?

Like, there's been a lot of assistant coaches in recent years that have done well that have gotten hired to think about like Tyler Jenkins. He didn't have any television experience, but, you know, he was a really good assistant coach. He was somebody that has had success, right? You could go down the list of guys that have had success from assistant coaches. I mean, Darbin Ham. as a guy that was just an assistant coach and he was hired on to be a head coach.

But what is the allure from front offices to pick guys with no coaching experience out of the broadcast booth or out of the podcast room or out of the podcast studio in this case? What is the allure of that? So I don't want to say this too broadly because I'd have to go back and look at all these different instances and like who else was in the running and all that stuff. But I mean, listen, to an extent, especially when the owner is heavily. involved. Owners don't really know basketball that well, but they do know names, right? They know who Larry Bird is.

They know who Doc Rivers is. They know who Isaiah Thomas is. They know who Mark Jackson is. Like, all the guys who go from the booth, like, they're all former players, right? And a lot of the guys are just named. Some of them are all-time greats. And there's a familiarity. Like, you may not, an owner doesn't actually know.

They don't know the assistant coaches. especially the ones who have come up as lifetime assistants, especially if they never played the game, right? And a lot of the guys I just named, right, who were on the Lakers list, like James Borago, Micah Nori, David Adelman. I mean, Adam, son of Rick Adelman, longtime head coach in the league.

But like, these guys are not known to team owners. They should be known to GMs and team presidents. But, you know, Chris Quinn played in the league for a long time, but as a, you know, late bench player, right? Sam Cassell obviously had a very good career. I think familiarity matters sometimes if owners don't know the pedigree of an assistant coach, but oh, I know who Sam Cassell is. I watched that guy win a couple championships with the Rockets or like, oh, I know who, you know,

Steve Kerr is. I saw him winning championships with Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan. I think it's that. Like, I think there's a level of celebrity involved here. And that's not to diminish the acumen of any of the folks we're talking about. But I'm saying if you're looking at this through the eyes of a team owner who doesn't necessarily know basketball people and are not mingling with assisted coaches on regular basis,

but they know who Jason Kidd is, right? And so there's some of that. So the broadcast part of it, it puts them in a position where you hear how they analyze the game. You get familiar with their personality. Most guys get on TV because they've got the personality for it, which means they're engaging. I mean, Doc Rivers is one of the most engaging personalities in the history of the game,

whether as player, coach, or broadcaster. And I think that helps pave the way, you know? Yeah. I mean, there's also this whole ecosystem that I don't think we talk about. Like, I think Doc Rivers is a great example of this of guys. I mean, we both know Doc and we have both been around Doc. Great at smoozing. An all-time smoozer.

Just all-time, right? So like especially like you can be a, it's one thing to be a smoother to like potential front office people. But there's another element to this of like guys that are smoothers to the media. And on the back end, those media folks might help how they'll be more inclined to be like, oh, Doc Rivers is a good guy. I liked how he held me down at one time when I needed a quote. I might write something glowing of how good he could be. And I'm just just one example, right? But like that's that's something that happens as well.

right somebody they can work a room and the broadcasters have a unique space in this to where like i'll take steve cur as an example like if he's in the broadcast booth he can both talk to simultaneously talk to potential ownership group and talk to us in the media right like just and and uh parlay that into either good coverage or something he can he can politic in a way that maybe a sam casale can't because he's locked in on a post on a playoff series and you know like they teams don't necessarily like their assistant coaches talking to the media during the postseason or when it's this time right like it's the i feel like broadcasters have a bit more of an inside track than a assistant coach is that off base or at least they have that's an advantage that people in

the broadcast booth have is that they do have proximity to both the media who can help them and also the front office who they can talk to in a way that assistants can't. Maybe, but I don't think that we have that great of an influence on who gets hired, ultimately. Yeah. It may help their portrayal. We may be writing more positively about them in general, sure. But I, you know, I think it's more the fact that the same effect that it has on media, like, oh, I hear this guy on TV every night. He seems really smart about the game.

is very thoughtful, he's engaging, whatever. And yes, when I've talked to him, I get all those things too. It's just the same effect on the owners. The owners are hearing and seeing the same things that we are in the media. And so if a guy seems engaging and sharp and quick on their feet and all that stuff, it comes off well. And listen, coaching is about a dozen or two dozen or several dozen different things in terms of what makes you successful or not. And your personality matters. Now, I've dealt with many coaches who have dudd personalities who have still been successful. I don't need to list them here. But I do think...

You can list them on the paywalled version of real ones, like after when all the records are done. I do think that being a coach who has an engaging personality or, you know, it's quick-witted, fun to talk to, fun to listen to. If it's fun, if those folks are engaging to us as media or as fans listening on TV, than they are probably in the room with the owner and probably in the locker room too. And I do think that that actually, it doesn't always work. Great personality, shitty tactics, you're still going to lose games, right?

But to the extent that coaching and success is about buy-in, as we always talk about, you know, it kind of helps to have a good personality that brings guys along with you. And so if you're on TV, if you've got a great broadcasting career, it's probably because you've got some of those attributes. in the first place. Let's put a bow on this really quickly, at least put it from the Lakers point of view. How much of like JJ being the front runner has to do with,

like this isn't really in a, like I know on paper it might be an attractive job. I get to coach LeBron and AD, but it's not really that attractive of a job when you peel back the layers. Like Barron Winoers discussed it. First of all, the Lakers don't pay coaches,

which isn't like, great. And they've lost out on good coaches because they don't want to pay them. And you also have to deal with the, it's, it's one thing to deal with the Lakers spotlight, but then you add LeBron and the pressure that he just puts on a coach just by sheer presence. And then also just like, you know, it's just really tough being LeBron James' coach. And then you're in that media market in L.A. How much of it is JJ being, you know,

propped up in this way because of just the circumstances of how unattractive that job is right now. And this might be his chance or most coaches that are good. Like, Coach Bud instantly went to Phoenix. He wanted to go to Phoenix before, like, L.A. was even an option, right? Like, how much of that is a, how much of JJ's candidacy has to do with where we are, with the Lakers coaching search and where they are as a team in an organization right now. Yeah, I mean, there's a bunch of different stuff there. So first, I would just say this.

I named the assistant coaches who have been reported to be in the running. Those are all like long-term assistants who have more than earned a shot, who I think are all really strong candidates and who clearly are interested, right? So, like, there's only, you know, it's the old cliche, there's only 30 of these jobs. Is it that great of a job long term, given some of the, you know, fundamentals of that roster? No, like that this team is going to crash and burn sometime soon whenever LeBron hangs it up or whenever LeBron finally loses a couple of steps. And then it's, you know, a mid-career Anthony Davis. And is he in, can you build around an Anthony, contender around Anthony Davis?

I would say that the evidence suggests no. And also one other thing, Howard, I don't believe, like, I heard, I heard something written out there. I think it might have been Shams that if JJ or any coach gets this, the Lakers want a coach that can both coach LeBron through his last years and then coach a team led by Anthony Davis. And I'm like, that's not even realistic. If and when LeBron James retires, that coach is not lasting after that. It's not going to happen.

No. No, you're in a rebuild after that, some sort of rebuild. Maybe you're a little bit ahead of the game because you have Anthony Davis, but you still need another leading star. because Anthony Davis is not a number one. And, you know, plus, you know, look, we don't need to go chapter and verse through all the other stuff that's going on with that organization the last several years. But, like, I don't have all that much confidence in them to rebuild a contender once LeBron's gone. They, you know, if not for LeBron choosing the Lakers, just because he wanted to be in L.A.

And because the Lakers have the legacy they do, then they're not even relevant right now. And Anthony Davis chose them because of LeBron. Like, what have they shown us that proves they can build a contender? So I don't, yeah, so I don't have a lot of confidence in them beyond whatever the LeBron era ends up being. That's why they want to give LeBron whatever he wants. Forget what you heard and the leverage and all these things is because they don't have any other options beyond that. No. No.

So, yeah, listen, it's always going to be an attractive job because it's L.A. because it's the Lakers and because it's one of 30. Is it an attractive job because you can be confident that they're going to give you the tools you need as a coach? and the roster you need, I have my doubts once LeBron retires. But it'll be interesting to see, like, is this JJ's job to lose? Does he take it? Does he pass on this and say, you know what? For all the reasons you and I just discussed, maybe he decides, I do want to be a head coach,

but I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait for a different kind of opportunity. Maybe he wants to coach a younger team or maybe he wants to coach a team that's like on the rise and getting ready to break through more of kind of like, like, you know, when the Warriors hired Steve Kerr, that kind of situation where it's, you know, mid-tier team with some lifespan ahead of it, as opposed to a team that's already on the down swing.

I just see the Lakers coaching opening. It's such a black hole for JJ. I don't really want him to be, not even for the reasons like, I mean, there's always the reasons that we pointed out, but I just feel like if he really wants to be a coach and it's something that he's serious about,

like this is probably a two-year gig and you might not get an op after this, right? Because of all the things that we have described, right? Like you have the spotlight. It's hard for a young coach, especially a first-time coach, to grow in that type of environment where every day it is something

and then you put the LeBron element on top of that, the scrutiny involved, every one of your moves, every one of your mistakes is magnified all that much more in a market like that. I don't know if that is the, It sounds good, but it's just like LA. It's great until you get there.

A couple of things. My bad. No, but dude. Spoken like a true Bay Area native. I would just say this too, though. LeBron and JJ right now on some level, I don't know enough to define this, but on some level, they're friends, right? Like they're peers.

They host a podcast together. They're clinking wine glasses. They're like having a good time. and then and I get it like you can navigate both personal relationship and coach to player relationship. It's possible to do plenty of folks have done it. But like to have no coaching experience and to go in with that relationship and now have to be like, okay, but now I'm the guy in charge. And when LeBron says get this guy out of the rotation or I don't want to start with this guy or whatever. And Jay just you spend so much time courting him to do a podcast with you.

It's just it's just a it changes the relationship. Listen, this has happened over the course of years, too, with assistant coaches. Assistant coaches can have more of a friendship with players and be the guy who goes to him and says, yeah, man, you're getting screwed. I'm advocating for you, whatever. And then the guy gets fired. You become the head coach and your relationship to your players immediately changes. I've seen that too.

And so JJ's going to have to change, you know, have to navigate this, the shift in relationship. Plus, he wasn't a player that long ago. And so whether it was Jason Kidd or Derek Fisher or any of these guys, if you, it's one thing, Like Doc had been in the broadcast booth for a while. Steve Kerr had been in the broadcast booth for a while. Mark Jackson had for a while. When you go almost straight from, I know JJ's been retired a couple years now,

but when you go and you're now coaching guys who you played against, they may have certain impressions of you or thoughts about you as a rival player. Are you saying that NBA players are petty and childish? I don't believe that. I'm just saying JJ has, you know, Jay just had a certain reputation on other players

yeah he's got a reputation yeah it's the dude thing a lot of it's the dude thing so if it's a JJ thing yeah but I don't know that's another thing that I'm like curious about like yo man do you want to go on during this time

because I don't know how many people are going to like and like he's JJ is just divisive by nature like yeah yeah and I'm not saying like even as a broadcaster even as a broadcaster

like do you nothing shows you who you are like television And like, that's just what it is. It just magnifies that. And I think that right now, I don't know if that's going to be conducive to this type of locker room. But anyways, we'll see what happens. We'll talk more in depth about this.

If or when he gets hired, we'll see. Who knows? Anyways, I don't know if you have a real one of the week. I'm just going to. I got one. Oh, you have one. Oh, okay. Go ahead.

Let's go. What we got? What's going on? My real one of the week. You ready for this? I don't know. Fred Katz, Nix reporter for the Athletic, my buddy, Fred Katz, for one specific reason, because he was on the Knicks Film School podcast with Jonathan Macri, which is a great pod about the Nix.

And when explaining why the Nix were able to win game five or what got them going, Fred cited the fact that in the pregame locker room, there was a quote-unquote, epic fart. He would not say who the source of it was. He protected identities. But the very fact that Fred Katz could drop the phrase epic fart and use that as the premise for why the Knicks won game five against the Pacers, he's my real one of the week. There you go. That's gross. That's gross. Is there anything realer than being able to drop that phrase publicly, though? That's as real as it gets. I'm not saying it's good. Okay. It's real. That's a very, okay, there we go. All right.

You're not. All right. I've just destroyed this segment forever. Yeah, it's done. It's over. No, there will be. I just, it might be just, I might just go solo. I might just do an ISO. Apologies. That's gross. Anyways, you know what, man, I got punked. I'm going to give it to my dog Kerm. Because I have asked a lot of Kerm over the last couple of weeks in terms of production that you guys don't see. and he's been holding it down, even though he owes me something for next week. And I'm just going to put that publicly. We'll see if it gets done.

But the dude has been holding it down. And shout out to Big Kerm in the cut. I appreciate you, my dog. Super producer, Dr. Dre, Kiggity Kerm, out of the motherfucking cut. Anyways, that has been another edition of real ones. That has been the Friday, real ones. We do this every Monday.

Oh, my God. Wow. Kerm in the chat says, quote in all caps, let's go. I'm really like that two times best to ever do it. He is very much basking in the glory of this. There's no certificate that comes with this. I don't even know if we, do we have anything like,

I don't know, Kerm, I don't like going on the socials like that, but go check out to see if we have like a running tally of real ones, real one of the weeks. But you have been a two-timer. Anyways, that has been another edition. You can catch us every Mondays and Fridays throughout the playoffs. maybe Roger Bell will be off-road. I think we'll see him on Monday.

So I should have the beginning of the broadcast, but, you know, whatever. Producers are just going to be mad at me. What producers are not going to be mad at me is when I say this. Make sure you tap in at Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmail back at gmail.com. Real ones mailback at gmail.com will be answering your questions on Monday like we do every Monday. Me, Raja, Howard, motherfucking, Beck. In the meantime, enjoy a weekend of hoops.

We'll talk to you guys very soon. Tap in all the shit. Bye! We're going to teach how we to do that one day. Let's be 21 years and older, 18 years and older in D.C. and President Select States, Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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