The Ringer NBA Show - The Unexpected and Unpredictable Lakers vs. Heat NBA Finals, Plus: Doc Rivers Is “Out” With the Clippers | The Mismatch

Episode Date: September 29, 2020

Chris and Kevin discuss Adrian Wojnarowski’s latest bomb that Doc Rivers is “out” with the Clippers organization (0:39), Game 6 of the Eastern Conference finals (12:57), and the unexpected but exciting matchup between the Miami Heat and Los Angeles Lakers in the NBA Finals (27:39). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Gatorade. For over 50 years, Gatorade has fueled the best athletes to rise to the occasion during their biggest moments. From young athletes just starting to turn heads to some of the best athletes to ever play their games. Gatorade shows they are the proven fuel of the best. The best are fueled by the best. Then, now and forever. Nothing beats Gatorade. And now time for the mismatch. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show.

I'm Chris Vernon. and join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Champton, Kevin O'Champton, Kevin O'Champton, Kevin O'Hourno. We got big, big news. Big, big news out of nowhere on just a regular Monday afternoon. Certainly not when you would have expected to get the news as we are preparing for an NBA finals, which is now set. It was reported by Adrian Worgiannowski. that Doc Rivers is out as the Clippers head coach.

He is one of the longest tenured head coaches in the entire NBA. I'll get to that in a moment. I will tell you, I am not surprised that Doc Rivers isn't getting to keep his job with the Clippers. I was surprised with the timing of this because it was shocking to just see it come across on a Monday afternoon that seems rather nondescript. There's nothing going on. And then we find out Doc Rivers is no longer going to be the Clippers coach. What do you know? So I've heard that this was a Steve Balmer driven decision, not a Lawrence Frank Clippers front office driven decision.

In fact, Lawrence Frank, who once coached with Doc Rivers in Boston, obviously he helped run the front office together in L.A. Did fight to keep Doc Rivers as head coach. But it was a Balmer driven decision, which raises the question for a Balmer. This is really one of his first big moves as an owner here that could change the entire franchise, considering Kauai Leonard went to L.A. partially because of the opportunity to be coached and play for Doc Rivers. How much did the players have to do with their exit interviews and feedback for, you know, this decision that Balmer made? And how much did Balmer talk to those guys? Yeah, I mean, is there now a, is there a direct? contact between the owner and the players on that team, you don't know, right?

Like, I mean, this is this is the job of the management to decide who is going to be the coach. It's interesting to me that you say it's Steve Balmer because is Balmer talking to Kawhi Leonard? Is Balmer talking to Paul George? Is Balmer talking to Lou Williams and Pat Beverly? You know what I'm saying? Or is he getting it secondhand from the other guys, right? like whose choice is this? Who's got the power?

Boller is hands on, to be fair. Balmer is a hands-on owner, and he's involved in conversations, and he's well respected by players and executives, and they are collaborative. But my understanding is that this was a Balmer decision here, and that says a lot here, considering the fact that Doc just signed an extension. He had two years left on his contract. They could have easily kept him.

He's a look, Doc, Doc, for all his faults, all the things that he's criticized for, just blew his third three-to-one lead as a head coach in the NBA, in addition to three, blown three-to-two leads. He has been on that side of that thing, on the side of that many, many times since he was in Orlando. But he's a good coach, and he's a good man, and he's meant a lot to this franchise since before Ballmore was there,

helping them through the Donald Sterling Pass fiasco, helping run the front office for some time. He's a good coach and a good guy. It's just with Ballmer, very clearly, with this decision, he feels like that they can do better. How do you do better? I mean, maybe that's something that the players informed him about. Maybe, you know, with Kauai's experience with Greg Popovich, he's like, yeah, I mean, he's

fine, but we can do better here. Or maybe that there's a candidate out there, maybe already on the Clippers bench, Ty Lou is a candidate out there right now. Sam Cassell, his name has been thrown around with the Rockets recently. Or maybe it's somebody else, like a Jeff Van Gundy is, Woge reported. Or maybe a Mike Dantone, who hasn't been reported? Maybe the Clippers already have somebody lined up that they feel like is an upgrade because despite all the flaws with Doc, he's not a bad coach, right?

He's not a bad coach. He's not a bad coach. I also don't think this is a bad move. I'm with you. Look, Kevin, if we're being, he didn't maximize that team. There's no argument to say he maximized that team. And in fact, it underachieve. There's no way around it, especially when you consider it's different.

even if you have a 3-1 lead and you're not up almost 20 in two games after that. But they were. So not only were they up 3 to 1, they also totally blew two of those games. And that team had chemistry issues, you know? All year long. All year. In the end, the X's and O's of this, you know, there are guys that can take you to a different level because of their X's and O's, right?

And Doc Rivers always gets credit for out of timeouts and a lot of things that people pay attention to coaching wise. But in terms of big picture stuff with coaches, you're charged with maximizing your roster, right? Like that's number one. Did you maximize the roster? and the answer is no. And the second thing is,

did you get them to play hard and play together? The answer is no. I mean, so, they mortgage their whole damn future for this team. Like somebody has to fall on the sword. Well, is that all on, Doc? Probably not.

I mean, he is going to fall on the sword, as you said. And I keep thinking about something, Greg Popovich said after Kauai was trai was traded. He's like, you know, Kauai obviously a great player. He wasn't a leader on this team, though. That was Timmy. That was Manu. That was Patty Mills, right? I mean, he was crediting others for the leadership aspect. And we last year in Toronto, when they won it all, Kauai didn't have to be the leader. That was Kyle Lowry. That was Marcus Sol. That was other guys on that team. It was Nick Nurse, even. And with this Clippers team, they didn't have those leaders on their team, Kauai being the way he

is, Paul George not being a leader. They didn't have that voice in the locker room. And Doc does fall on that sword. It's hard to put all the blame on him considering just the year prior to that. He did maximize the Clippers team with Che Gilgis and Alexander and Del Al-Gallinari and all these guys, all these random players that got mushed together and somehow made the Clippers look like an appealing destination for Kauai Leonard and Paul George. That's right.

So it's not all on Doc. which is why I keep coming back to what we talked about after they blew the three to one lead. It can't just be making a change at head coach here. There needs to be changes from within. And whether that is, you know, Kauai becoming a better leader or whether it's something like a trade, whatever it might be, that can't just be a change of head coach. It just can't be that. Well, and look, don't get me wrong.

I'm not saying that Doc Rivers is a bad coach or that they might not downgrade in the end. What I'm saying is this is the business, right? And when the expectations are incredibly high and I actually think that if they would have lost to the Lakers, no big deal. They lost to the Nuggets. And that was a big deal. And they lost to the Nuggets after having a 3-1 lead. And so it's all in the context of what took place. And, you know, at some point, you've got three more games to play.

Your coach has to be able to get you to the point where you're disposing of that team. And it's going to or it's going to fall back on you. And the other thing is, they were poorly coached in that series, Kev. They got all the way to frigging game seven and didn't know what they were doing on defense. they didn't know if they were switching. They didn't know how they were going to guard the two-man game with Yokic and Murray. You didn't know if Zubach was going to be in the game in game seven or if he wasn't going to play at all. He's rolling with Lou Williams, who'd been awful.

You know, I think that there were just, again, players win and lose these games, but the coach's job is to put them in the best position to win and lose those games. And I didn't feel like he did that. Well, that's going to be interesting about their decision here. Is Balmer in the front office going to look internally? Will they look at a Sam Cassell or a Ty Lou? I heard with Ty Lou, he had some sort of riffs with Patrick Beverly. So maybe there's the best, not the best relationship there.

Tai Lu interviews with the Sixers in Philadelphia on Tuesday. I'm told, even though Mike D. Antony seems to be the leader in the rankings for the next Sixers job there. And according to Mark Spears, the Sixers and the Pelicans have already reached out to Doc Rivers. So that took five minutes? Yeah, I mean, there took five minutes. Five minutes. There could be a lot of musical chairs here in the coming weeks, depending on where each guy lands and who the clippers end up looking for here.

I don't know if they're going to get some sloppy seconds with whoever coaches are available, or suddenly some of these guys that were thinking about going elsewhere are going to look now at the clippers as the best job offering because of the team and because of the money that Balmer is going to be able to offer. There's no question. you can absolutely do worse than Doc Rivers as your head coach in the NBA. In fact, you're probably more, if you hire Doc Rivers, you are more likely in my estimation to do worse than you are to do better.

That's what I would say. I think he falls in that class of NBA coach. It's a risk. It's a risk. And it's bold. And the other thing is, you talked about the, the blowing of lead. So it wasn't just this Clippers thing.

I mean, there's people that think he didn't maximize the Lob City years when he had those guys in their prime. JJ Reddick and Chris Paul and Blake Griffin and D'Andre Jordan. They obviously vomited all over themselves in that series against the rockets that would have kept them. But he'll have another job and we'll see what the Clippers end up doing when they find their next head coach.

You know what's interesting, Chris? Kauai Leonard now. has ditched Greg Popovich, Nick Nurse, and Doc Rivers. Quite a resume he's building. It seems like that we only talk about that when it comes to LeBron James. Well, he hasn't ditched him. I mean, he hasn't ditched them. Well, he ditched Pop.

He ditched Nurse and now sign an hour to Doc. Well, he didn't exactly choose to be in Toronto, right? He did choose to leave. Yeah, he did choose to leave after he delivered them a title, no less. Of course. And now, I mean, Ty Lou, as you mentioned earlier, and you're never going to believe who else's name has immediately come up, Kev. Wait for it. Wait for it.

I'll give you a hint. His name has come up with every job for the last 10 years. Oh, Jeff Van Gundy? Yeah, we mentioned him in passing a little bit ago. But no surprise there. No surprise there. He said the best agent in the world. This guy hasn't been on a sideline in a decade.

every single job that comes open for the last decade. Next thing you know, we'll hear Phil Jackson mentioned. Oh, boy. You want to talk about storylines. That would be unbelievable. I don't know how much of a kumbaya guy, Kauai Leonard is, though. I don't know if he's going to get Kawai and Montres Herald burning incense sitting

around and reading from books of prophets of old. I don't know if that's going to take place. Anyways, we do have an NBA finals that is set. Let's cover your thoughts on the end of the Celtic season first, because we saw a 125-113 heat win in their game 6, which sent them to the NBA finals to face the Lakers. Now that we have had a day to process, what took place between the heat and the Lakers?

What are you left thinking about Boston? I mean, they blew that. They blew opportunities to get themselves up in the series. They were up 96 to 90 with nine minutes left when Eric Spolster called a timeout in the fourth quarter in game six. They proceeded by being outscored 35 to 17 to the heat made it seem like a blowout when really it was a pretty close game throughout. it feels like with Boston, there's a lot of reasons why they lost this series. Some of it is just bad shooting luck. Some of it is like just great big plays, like the Bamato Bio Block on Jason Tatum.

But ultimately, it's, I largely look at some of the decisions around the edges that we've talked about during the series. The inability to beat the zone until it was too late. playing Brad Wanamaker for 25 minutes in games one and two when you already have plenty of other ball handlers on your roster. I understand Gordon Hayward was out, but there's still enough other talent on that team. Leaning on Annis Cantor, when Grant Williams time and time again throughout the playoffs

has proven to be the best offering, the best option that Stevens had off the bench to be the backup to Daniel Tice. Little things like that, decisions that were in Stevens' control, I figure why he got out-coached by Spolstra. And then it is also just that some of these guys got outplayed. Drogrich had an outstanding series. Hero had big games.

Robinson had big moments of the supporting cast, never mind Bam and Jimmy Butler being stars. Andre Wadala going to his six finals now, hitting big-time shots, making big-time plays. Whereas Boston, it didn't feel like they got them. that the zone threw off kemba walker it threw off jason tatum taitam wasn't able to get to the rim like he needed to gordon hayward coming back from injury it looked like he shouldn't even have been out there a lot went into that but ultimately i look at what was in the control of the team

and some of that was the decisions made by stevens you think anything as we have kind of dissected all these teams as they have been uh sent home if you're danny aange you look at you look at look at that and do you say this team is, it's going to mature with time and we're going to run this back and we don't need to do anything big to alter it? Or do you look at it and say, this thing needs some altering? I mean, you always need to alter, I think. You know, I think there's always ways to make your team better. And I think you can look at it. What would you do about building around Tatum and Brown? Because you're about to reach, you know, you're about to reach. Well, look, again, what's in your control here? You can't decide if Gordon Hayward is going to opt

into his $30 million contract next season or not. Once you know that, then you know what opportunities or what options you actually have out there because with Hayward, it's similar to with Horford last year. Last year entering the offseason, there was a lot of noise that Horford was going to opt in and then he didn't. In fact, then he went to Philadelphia. With Gordon Hayward, right now it's the same type of rumblings that it sounds like he's going to opt in.

I've heard that. It's been reported by others as well. but we'll see what actually happens as the offseason actually approaches. I would assume he's going to opt in. Who's going to offer him a lot of money? He looked like a $10 million level player to me, not a $30 million level player. And I would think if I'm Hayward,

I would want another opportunity, another year to show what I'm worth before I enter free agency. And also he might be happy there. I mean, he just had another baby, you know, with his wife and like it's, it's,

well, I ain't given the market, Kiv. I mean, look at the market. There's not a lot of teams. out there that would probably pay Gordon Hayward. And like when we when we talk about Hayward's struggles in the East

finals coming off the ankle injury, a grade three ankle sprain, missing the birth of his child, I have a hard time knocking him too much when he really physically didn't look like he should have been out there. And he also made a big personal sacrifice to be there. But the fact is, you know, at the end of the day, he was not good on either end of the floor. And all of these things added up to hurt Boston in a serious. said I picked them to win in six.

I thought they would win this series because of their sheer talent in addition to what seemed like a tough team. But Miami ultimately, dude, they've proven with the way they have advanced against the Pacers, against the Bucks, against the Celtics now to have an opportunity to face LeBron James, Anthony Davis, and the Los Angeles Lakers in the finals. They have shown that they are a complete total team. They're not here because of one person or one coach or anything. It's a collective unit here that makes this team great and a real threat. I think the better team won. I do.

I don't think that I don't look at that and say the Celtic should have won that series. I know they were favored in Las Vegas. But much like you were saying, the collective, the team, right? I do think that the heat, as they are presently constructed and the way they have been playing since they have gotten down to the bubble. This is not, this heat team that has played at the level they have is not equivalent to the team that finished fifth in the standings in the Eastern Conference. You know, this is a team that made, they altered their roster, they got to run it through a training camp and have the eight lead up games. And it looks like a radically different team. also a team that given the environment

has been able to throw a lot of different stuff out at teams that they have been unprepared for and has kind of been able to hone this chemistry which includes Iguidala, who was nothing like he was last night if you saw him at the tail end of the regular season. Jay Crowder's been out of his mind, you know, playing great.

Well, and Hero. taking a massive leap forward, a massively forward from the guy that was on the heat during the regular season. And so I think it's a fool's errand to say, you know, I hear a lot and I see a lot of this, a team to finish fifth in the Eastern Conference. Like, I promise you. That's like I'm sick of hearing that. If you started this season right now, I promise you that team ain't ain't finished fifth.

And just to put this into perspective, a stat here from. at Jagged underscore Skyline on Twitter, which I think underlines your point about this being a new team. The most common regular season lineup for the heat during the regular season was Butler, at a bio, Robinson, Nunn, and Myers-Leonard. It played 488 minutes, which was three times as many minutes as any other five-man lineup on the roster. Those five guys have played zero minutes together in the postseason.

Myers-Leonard has only played nine minutes total. in the entire playoffs, the whole first three rounds. They're a brand new team. So you can say what they were in the season back in March. You can say what lineups they used back then. It doesn't matter. This is a brand new team. And it requires evaluation of what they are now, who they are now,

and what they can be against the Lakers. And that is a team that is going to present the challenge. I'd pick the Lakers to win it just to say that up front. I'll pick the Lakers in six. but this is going to be a really hard fought series because of Miami's adaptability and their ability to play different styles and dictate what other teams do. And that has a lot to do with bam, with what we saw in that game six, especially against Boston.

What a remarkable talent he is. Oh, he was, that was, that was the first time, and especially on a huge stage like that. But that was the first time where I felt like this is not just, complimentary guy.

This is, I'm taking this game over. He's got, like, I didn't know he had that, right? Which is, I've got the ball at the top of the key. I'm going to go create my own shot. And it is, it is the thing that we, we wondered if Siakam would have if he was without, when he wasn't flanked by a superstar, right? and we saw that they could sit on the spin move, and he was unable to consistently create his own shot.

But you saw that stretch where if you had never watched a game so far this season, you would watch that and think, this guy is the best guy on this court. And to see at his size, you know, just taking guys off the dribble and then pulling up. I mean, he had everything going. And especially after a guy that he laid their loss on him in game five and said, it's on me.

I have to be better. And to have that as a response game, I mean, that shows what that kids, how that kid's built because that's, that's unbelievable. Absolutely. And this is why, you know, look, experience matters to an extent. It does, you know, it helps inform the way you think and the way you perform and whatever big, you know, high intensity moment that you make. find yourself in, whether it's basketball or whatever it else it might be.

For Bam, you know, he has shown that growth over the course of the playoffs, I think, with those types of experience, taking accountability, you know, even if deserved or not, he said it's on me. And then he backed it up with maybe the best game he's ever played. Oh, for sure. Right? I mean, I mean, he, Bam, I mean, before the playoffs began, I probably would have had Bam ranked is like the 35th best player in the league,

you know, something like that, 30th best player. To me, what he has shown the dimensions of his offense when provided chances to score, when provided chances to do more, it is similar to the growth that we saw from year two to year three this season with the heat when he was enabled more as a playmaker. When you saw him average around, you know, seven assists,

this is why he got so many votes his most improved player. But now he's getting opportunities. beats to score more, bring the ball up the court, and out of that typical dribble handoff action, just attack. He can do more from Miami than has been able to show, of course, now against the Lakers, he's not going to be defended by Daniel Tice or Grant Williams or Ennis Cantor or Robert Williams. It's going to, a lot of the time, be Anthony Davis. And that presents a whole new challenge for him that I'm excited to see, can he tap into more? because he's going to need to in the series, in order for Miami to have a chance,

it can't be all the permanent guys. He's also going to have to continue to, A, play good defense on AD when he's on him, but also provide quite a lot offensively. Hey, Chris, by the way, I just got to let the listener know real quick. This just came to mind. On Friday, our show is going to be out after game two. We normally record either late Thursday night or early Friday morning. So look for that Friday night after the game.

And also, get to let the listeners know about today's sponsors. Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Gatorade. For over 50 years, Gatorade has fueled the best athletes to rise to the occasion during their biggest moments. Whether it's Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, or younger guys like Jason Tatum or Zion Williamson, we often see players drinking Gatorade from the sidelines or using their towels. It's something that's associated with them when we see them grow growing. from an unknown or a young guy that's trying to prove themselves to somebody who is a great achiever.

From young athletes just starting to turn heads to some of the best athletes who ever played their games, Gatorade shows they are the proven fuel of the best. The best are fueled by the best, then, now, and forever. Nothing beats Gatorade. The mismatch is also brought to you by Fandul. It's week three of the Fandul-Ringer mega-contest on Fandul. All season long, you can play the free Ringer Mega-Contest. contest on FanDuel. This is the last week you can get in still place, so it's not too late,

but it's realistically the last week you need to make up ground. Here's how it works. Just pick five NFL games against the spread, including one double down pick. You get one point for every correct pick and two if you hit your double down pick. FanDul will add up your score every week. Just finish in the top 100 on the season-long leaderboard to make the playoffs and compete for a share of $25,000. It's that simple. My lock this week is Seahawks minus six and a half over the dolphins. You got Russell Wilson having an MVP caliber season.

He's going to go into Miami, take them down, cover the spread. That's my lock of the week. The top 100 make the playoffs to compete for a share of $25,000. The top 100 will make the playoffs to compete for a share of $25,000. Play the ringer mega contest for free every week only on Fandul. Go to fandul.com slash megacontest to make your picks today. That's Fandul.com slash megacontest. Fantasy football is back and you don't want your team to suck.

My favorite fantasy football punishment I've ever heard is the last place guy had to spend 24 hours in a waffle house and every waffle he ate was one hour off of his count. I want numbers. How many did he end up eating? 12 waffles and 12 waffles and 12. 12 hours. I'm Danny Hyattitz. I'm Danny Kelly.

And I'm Craig Horlebeck. We host the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on the Ringer Podcast Network. To avoid eating 12 waffles in a Waffle House, follow the Ringer Fantasy Football Show on Spotify. And now back to the mismatch. All right, let's get into this finals because this is perfect. This is the mismatch for a reason. I think the heat can win this title. And the reason I think that heat can win this title is because after watching these games,

I've spent the last month watching all of this basketball and this playoff basketball. I have felt that I am a big believer in the collective and the togetherness and playing team basketball. And I have felt that the Eastern Conference, that the basketball has been so much better. I really felt that. I have felt that about the, I certainly felt that about the Raptors and the Celtics. I certainly felt that about the heat. and the Celtics versus watching the clippers in Denver and then Denver and the Lakers and obviously the Lakers at Houston before that.

This was, you know, in the case of Denver, so much is dependent on two guys. In the case of the Lakers, so much dependent on two guys. The Clippers threw up all over themselves. At moments when they played as a team and they were popping the ball around, they look great. Most of that happened in the first half of their games. Houston, we know that is just isolation city. Whereas I really felt like in the Eastern Conference, you know, even though Milwaukee got ran out by Miami, I thought that team played as a team.

There were all kinds of different guys that could hurt you on that team. And those number, those guy, that number became less, obviously against Miami. It was certainly true of Toronto. It was certainly true of Boston. And I think it's certainly true of Miami. It is just for me, the star power, as I've said from the very beginning, it might just be enough. It might overwhelm.

But there are two guys that I could say, that guy had a 20 point half on the Lakers. There's like five on the heat that it could be any one of them. Hero could obviously do it. We saw Bam do it last night. Jimmy can do it. Duncan Robertson had six threes in one of the halves. Dragich can do it.

And that's just five of them, right? Like almost any of them can really contribute. And I do think that is much harder to keep up with than teams that were so dependent upon who's going to be the guy that can step up that night. And I felt like the Western conference, you know, you got a big game out of Robert Covington. You got a big game out of Jeremy Grant. You got a big game out of like, but there wasn't a lot of full team collective five, six guys in double digits type basketball. And that's what the East was.

It was filled with teams that had five or six guys in double digits in good games. And so that's, I think there's a strength in numbers and just the sheer number of good players. on that heat team is going to be enough. They also are able to slow down Janice, and they also have Eric Spolster as their coach, which informs them in being able to slow down one of the two Lakers players that has to be awesome every game for them.

I can understand what you're saying for sure, and this is why it's going to be a competitive series. It's why Miami has a chance. They can win it. I wouldn't rule that out at all, but I think the Lakers will win it. Because this isn't just two guys, though. It is a collective unit in their own way.

They might not have five or six guys that can consistently go off for 20 plus points, but they do have five or six guys that fit and play their roles at a high level and do the things that they need to do. The pieces fit in L.A. Guys do what is needed. It's going to be interesting to see if they roll with two bigs, what happens with Javala McGee and Dwight Howard. I thought Howard did a good job in the Yokic series. he can probably offer some of the similar energy and rebounding and toughness against Bamatabio that he did against Yokic. You have Caruso with his defense, Rondo with his complimentary playmaking, and he's actually hitting the open shots the defenses are giving him.

And I'll say this, Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green have not been good. And yet the Lakers have won each of their series in five games. I feel like those two guys who are historically streaky shooters, maybe they're due to start catching some fire here on the offensive end of the floor. Maybe not. Like you can't predict this. But Green and Kuzma are streaky guys and they have not been hitting. They are two guys who can have hot shooting nights. And that's a variable for the Lakers that could play into their favor considering they haven't caught in it yet.

Yeah, I don't trust them. It's been long and out. I understand you don't trust them, but the pieces do fit. It runs through LeBron and AD, two of the games five or six best players in the entire league, surrounded by a supporting cast that fits around them and plays their roles at a really high level. But it is them. It is a, I get that you say it surrounds it, but it's, you look even, even in that game five, the last 10 minutes of the game, the one that we were underwhelmed watching that game five,

the last 10 minutes of that game, KCP hit a job. jumper. Rondo hit a jumper. That's it. In the last 10 minutes of the game, that's it. Every other bucket was scored by LeBron and AD, most of which were at the free throw line. Is that a bad thing? I mean, when it's LeBron and AD, though, I mean, I'm just saying, what if they face a team that can actually slow one of them down? I don't know what I mean. Good luck. Good luck. There's no, that might be the case. Good luck. That might be the case. And you know what? I do wonder, what does Miami do there? Do they try to overload things against LeBron and AD? how much zone do they play?

We saw no zone against the Pacers, no zone against the Bucks, a heck of a lot of zone against the Celtics. How much do we see against the Los Angeles Lakers? There's so much to watch for. The heat are going to make other guys beat them. And I know you say, good luck with the LeBronthe. I think that they will do what you see.

A lot of teams have done this against superstars. And I actually think that Miami has the good to be able to do it, which is every time LeBron looks up with that ball, he's going to see two guys every time. And it's not going to be two guys running at him where he's whipping the ball around. He is going to see his defender and he is going to see somebody behind him, probably bam. And their ability to be able to fall into that zone is, I think could cause a big issue for

L.A. also. I think that you are going to see them. they are going to shade him to, they are going to attempt to not let him just drive to the basket at will. And they're going to try to turn him into a jump shooter and a facilitator. He will obviously command an immense amount of attention. But I do think that the heat or the type of team that can make those other guys step up. And maybe they will.

Maybe KCP will. Maybe Kuzma will. Maybe Rondo will. Maybe they will. I have not been a believer in their supporting cast from the very beginning. If they are able to win this, it is simply because they have two of the five best players in the world, which I freely admit they have. I thought, I think it is, I think that their supporting cast and the way they built around them is not good enough.

And so I, and I also think this is a massive step up in competition. I was surprised when I talked about how great of a matchup this was last night, and maybe this is just social media. But there is nobody that responded that said, you know, I think the heat can beat them. Virtually everybody that responded was like, yeah, Lakers in four, Lakers and five. Lakers are going to kill them.

That was your impression on Twitter last night. Yeah, that people think that the Lakers are going to kill them. And I will tell you, Vegas has Miami installed as plus 300 on the money line. So they're a three to one. You know, I mean, if you put $100 down on the heat, you'd net $300 if they won this thing. So that's pretty, they're pretty heavy favorites in this. I think you will agree with me on this, even if we pick different sides of this. And I also freely admit, I love this heat team.

I love the story. I love the way they play. I love their chemistry. I love that they got a team full of Rottweilers on their team. Like, I love it. I think you will admit this is going to be a big step up in competition for the Lakers, right? We both agree the heat are much better than the Nuggets in terms of being on this stage and a challenge to the Lakers. Do you agree with that?

Sure. I agree with that. You do. I agree with that. And better than Houston, right? This is the best team the Lakers will have played. Yep. I agree with that.

Yeah. And I just think that there's so much of they ended in fifth place, which you talked about earlier. No, Myers-Lennard and Kendrick Nunn and that group, they ended in fifth place. This team, if they ran it out, I mean, I don't know. I think Spolster's really good. And I just, I've watched these Eastern Conference playoff teams, and I've just thought they were better. I thought the basketball has been so much better throughout. Now, maybe LeBron and AD are just too good. That could easily be the case.

But I thought the basketball, team basketball, was much better in the Eastern Conference. And so then I have to think that the heat and what they were able to do, disposing of those three teams, was crazy impressive to me. It was a different style, you know, in the East than we saw in the West for sure. even with Denver, you're running almost everything through Murray and Yokic down to stretch of games. And that's going to be something new for the Lakers. And that's what's going to make this so interesting from a tactical point of view. You know, Miami's probably going to pull a game

out at some point and you're going to have to see adjustments from both sides. I don't know how much the regular season matters here, but it is worth just mentioning here that in the November in December games that the Lakers faced the heat, Miami played 40 possessions of zone defense. according to Synergy Sports. In all likelihood, we're going to see it. In all likelihood, Miami's going to pull it out against the Lakers. How ready are they? Are they more ready than the Celtics were?

You better hope so if you're a Lakers fan because Boston was not ready at all for that, despite facing it against Toronto as well. I would expect we're going to see some wrinkles here. And it also wouldn't shock me, similar to how Spolstra pulled the zone out against Boston and after not doing it against Indiana and against Milwaukee, what wrinkle does he have for this series that we're not thinking about? Could it even be bringing back Myers-Lennard, you know, playing him for some minutes and going with two bigs if the Lakers do that?

Maybe you want the Lakers to have two bigs out there, so you try to match them by playing two bigs. I don't know. I'm just saying that as an example here because I would expect Spolstra is going to do something that he hasn't done yet before. Well, and he's certainly got a lot of guys he can throw it, LeBron, less that he can throw at Davis, for sure, right? They're going to have to keep him out of bio out of foul trouble. But when you're talking about Iguodala and Butler and Jay Crowder.

Can we not put Jay Crowder in that category? Jay Crowder can't stop anybody. Oh, that's ridiculous. He's an average defender. Average. I don't like putting him in the same category as Butler and Iguidala. It's it's Butler, Iguodala, and then they have some other guys who compete. Jay Crowder makes a big defensive plays.

Crowder competes. He does make some plays, but he also can't move well laterally on the perimeter, which is a problem against LeBron James. Oh, I do think that he is, I think he is worthy of if I walk into it with him. There is nobody, unless you want to say Jeremy Grant for Denver. I mean, if you want to say Jeremy Grant, you think Jeremy Grant's a great defender? I mean, who else on Denver? Would you rather have to throw than Jay Crowder at LeBron?

I mean, at least he's going to fight for it. Yeah, he's going to fight. I'm just saying he's not at the level of Jimmy Butler and Andre Aguadala. Oh, that's fair. I mean, two of the best defenders, I mean, Iguadala, maybe not as much anymore. But Jimmy Butler is certainly one of the best two-way players in the entire NBA. I just think they've got a lot of wings. The point is they've got a lot of wings that can at least take the fouls and compete against LeBron

because that's a 40-minute task, you know, because he's going to keep on putting the pressure on you. And we finally saw LeBron like King James LeBron in that last game against Denver. We hadn't seen that in a while, though, Kev. You know, the whole I'm just taking over. The fourth quarters had been pretty dismal, honestly, for LeBron. And then he just exploded. And it was like he wanted to show everybody. I've still got this gear that I can go to if I need to.

Because you did wonder like, well, yo, where's this been? This guy is murdering everybody. And we had, because we hadn't seen it in a while. Plus, we've seen him, you know, reached out to his lower body sometimes. That's right. He had the ankle turn. It was a fair question to wonder. And it is a fair question to wonder.

if he's not 100% physically. It is. But he did prove that. It wasn't after that fourth quarter. Not after that fourth quarter for damn sure. I mean, like what a ridiculous performance by him that night, man. He proved he's still the king.

He's still the king. He is still the best player in basketball, still is somebody who is built. I wrote about this today on the ringer. To me, like what stood out in this playoff run in this entire past year since last October is he's nowhere near. done, man. He's nowhere near the finish line here. He is still the best player in basketball.

He has shown that he's adaptable by taking on a heavier playmaking presence than he ever has before. Maybe now is when we see him turn a little bit more towards the scoring rather than the playmaking aspect, if that's what the game requires him to do in order to win. But he has shown that if his athleticism does continue to, you know, steadily, you know, decline a little bit from the all-world level he was in his prime years and first into first into cleveland then with Miami he can be the best playmaker in basketball or one of the best playmakers in basketball if he needs to be and just pick his spots as a score because he has a guy like a D next to him but i mean that's just something that's been on my mind with lebron he's nowhere near

done man he's nowhere near done even at 35 no if you if you didn't know what season this was yeah what year was you was you think LeBron's in right now? If you didn't know, it was year 17, 35 years old. I mean, I mean, do I see the hair line? I mean, that number gets a little higher if you're showing me his hair. But if he just showed me, if he's wearing a wig and he showed me his game, I mean, you certainly would think a guy is still in his prime. You would think this is a guy that is in the prime of his career. It goes to show the level he was at 2012, 2012, 2013 with Miami

when we saw a real peak LeBron. That's right. At that point. And he is still an extraordinary player, still the best player in basketball, but he's still not prime LeBron. But this is why he's going to last for as long as he wants to pending good health. And that's exciting.

You know, it's exciting for us as basketball fans. I look forward to seeing how he ages, but more than anything else, though, I look forward to seeing how he, at least, most immediately right now, adapts in the series. because Miami, as you did say, you mentioned those guys, you mentioned Butler, you mentioned Igadala, and Jay Crowder, too, but also Bam et abio. Miami, in all likelihood, we'll switch screens.

I mean, we'll see how they're going to actually match up on initial possessions. Like, you could juggle this a lot of different ways. You could put Crowder on LeBron if you want to. You could put Crowder on AD if you want to and have Bam roaming off ball, like off of Dwight Howard or something. We'll see how that breaks out on Wednesday in game one. But the fact is, is there will be situations where there's a LeBron. Anthony Davis pick and roll.

And the Miami heat just switched that. And that puts Bam on LeBron and Crowder or Iguodala on AD. The other weird one is because you wouldn't necessarily think this, thinking about the heat versus the Lakers, Easter conference versus Western Conference. But can the heat beat them significantly from the three point line? because that can be the advantage. It really can in a lot of these games.

Because the Lakers, they're not a take and make a ton of threes. And those Eastern Conference teams, there are a bunch of, you know what I mean? Like there were many times where you could look at halftime and these teams were shooting. They had already shot 20-something threes and they were shooting 40% on them. It creates you a big advantage. You know, so look, if it has to be, if we agree that other guys have got to step up outside of LeBron and AD, who do you have the most trusted in an NBA finals? Is it Rondo?

He's kind of been the guy so far, right? Who do you trust the most as the third guy, the impact, third impact guy for over the course of a series in the NBA finals? Alex Caruso Stop, you do not You do not You don't I know you don't I know you don't

I know you don't If we if we admit I mean I asked this at all seriousness What do you mean by trusts I'm not sure what you're saying there Who do you think is going to be The third guy for the Lakers When we look at the end of this

When we look at the end of the finals Their third best player I'm gonna I'm going to give you the first two. I'm going to go out of a huge limit. I'm going to say LeBron and Anthony Davis will be their two best players. I mean, like I said to you, best player.

Like I said to you earlier, I mean, look, the fact is I don't know here. It could be Kuzma, could be Danny Green, could be Rajan Rondo, could be Alex Caruso. Maybe he plays outstanding defense against Drogich,

and that screws up what Miami wants to do. I'm not sure who it's going to be, which speaks to my point here, at the Lakers depth. I think it's better than you give it credit for. I don't think that speaks to the depth. I think that speaks to the fact

that they don't have somebody that you can just say that guy's the third best guy on the team. I don't think that, I don't think that's a credit to the debt. So you don't think that's a good thing. No. I don't think that's a credit to the depth.

Obviously, I like that clarity, but I think you could say the same thing about Miami just with a different level. You can say Jimmy and bam, and then maybe it's hero. Maybe it's Drogich. Draj. Maybe it.

I think it's an easy. Just Drudge it. Easy answer. And then it's hero. I mean, I think we can go down the list. I mean, I think, look, I think that the, I think the Lakers have the best two guys in the series and by a wide margin. Okay. I think the heat might have the next six.

I would not disagree there. You know what I'm saying? I wouldn't disagree. And that's the, that's the rough. And if it's not six, maybe it's like three or four. Is it better to have the best two or the next six? That's what we're going to find out. And yeah.

And you think it's the best two And I think it's the next six. Yeah. That's what makes the series. So I pick Lakers in six. Yeah. What's your prediction for the series? Heat and six.

Yes. Heat and six. Yes. Why that's bold. Get them out of it. And then we're playing the Laker blame game. That's bold. Who's getting blamed first?

Vogel, AD, uh, Palenka for putting together this crap roster outside of the two. It will be Vogel that gets blamed. It will. If they lose a series. Yeah.

It'll be Vogel. It's going to be Frank Vogel. It'll be vulgar who gets playing. It should be Polaica. Because if the Lakers lose the series, it's because they're unable to get efficient half-court offense out of the talent that they have. And people are going to look at, you know,

some either the lineup choices that he makes, they're going to look at either maybe the play types. They're going to look at maybe the lack of pick and roll. They're going to look at the lack of movement. And they're going to point to Vogel. Because we have seen this Lakers offense run stagnant late in games at times. It's partially because of this style of play with LeBron and AD. It's partially, you know, because of play calling.

And if they lose, it'll come down to him. Remember when we were bitching about Philly? Right? And we said, you know, obviously Brett Brown fell on the sword, whatever. But I said, look, this isn't rocket science here. You got Ben Simmons and Joe L&B. Just go find three shooters. To me, I think you could look up and that's what people are bitching about with the Lakers.

This isn't rocket science. How about you get some guys that can knock down shots? I mean, maybe Coosman will. Danny Green shot like 48% from three in the playoffs in his career. I'll run. I mean, I am not.

If Danny Green goes off in one of these games, then I'll apologize. But he's going to have to go off in one of these games for me to apologize. Because I, to me, it used to be that if you swung the ball to Danny Green in the corner, it was curtained. and you were just going, oh, God, no. Yeah. It's not that anymore. It never has been that.

He's a streaky. He plays Pope. He plays Rondo. He plays these guys. Green is a streaky shooter, though. He always has been a streaky shooter. Always has been. I just had 48% throwing out that out there because in my mind, I remembered, I just looked

out the numbers. He shot 48% in 2012-13 against Miami in the finals, the one the Spurs lost. And then the following year, The year the Spurs won, he shot 47.5%. In those two seasons, in his playoff career, in his playoff career, he shot 39%. Last year with Toronto during the regular season, he shot 46% during the season that fell down to only 33% in the playoffs.

He's a historically streaky guy. The shot comes and goes with him. And right now, with the Lakers, it's gone. It was gone against the Nuggets. He looks like a player who shouldn't even be on the court at times. but the fact is is that if those shots start falling, that he can hit and does hit when he's on, that's bad news from Miami.

It's bad news. And he's capable. And I don't think you can rule that out in addition to the fact he is a good defender. I just said I'd apologize to him. For sure, no, no. I have ruled it out. I have ruled it out. And I'll apologize to him.

All I'm saying, this isn't the first time he hasn't shot well. This has happened throughout his. career, whether during the regular season or the playoffs, which is why I feel if I'm a Lakers fan, I would feel a little bit of optimism like, okay, that time is coming. Just like with the heat, Jay Crowder started off just hitting everything from three for Miami. And I believe he's hit only like three of his last 25 three point attempts. He's not hit anything right now.

And from Miami, like you knew that was in all likelihood coming at some point. talked about that a couple weeks ago with him with his what I know Danny Green used to be Duncan Robinson and the guy that when he caught the ball in the quarter you were like all right forget about it and I said I'll apologize to Danny Green if he starts knocking down shots but I mean look to me they don't have the guy like any shot that LeBron and AD don't take is like, who knows, what's going to happen here? They don't have another guy that's dead-eyed that you just trust and you're scared. He's going to go off, right?

That that's their deal. It's a bunch of streaky guys. I get it. Caldwell Pope can hit shots. Many times he doesn't. Kyle Kuzma can hit shots. Danny Green can hit shots. But it's just a matter of when was the last time any of these guys had a big game?

Seriously. What is the last big game that you remember somebody not named AD, LeBron, or Rondo was? And that speaks to how great those other. It depends on what a big game is. You could point to, you know, Rondo against the other two are. It does. Yes, but you can't just look at the points column and say, oh, he had a big game. Guys can have big games in different ways for your roster, whether that's energy.

No, I'm saying scoring wise. I'm saying scoring wise, I mean, like, yeah, you can say that it's been LeBron and AD. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing when you're talking about. the arguably the greatest player ever and definitely the best player of this generation and the best big man currently in basketball, I don't think that's a bad thing at all when you're getting those two guys

contributing every night and sometimes you get other guys on differing nights. It's not a bad thing. No, I just think it's, look, I am up the opinion, I'm coming at it as it is disgraceful that a team with those two guys, their third best player is 15th year, Rajan Rondo.

That's who I would take. That's who I would do. If you want to say that, like I said, it's a different guy every night. If I lined them up all on a wall, who would you draft? For what? To play the series. To play the series. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're playing a series. Alex Caruso. Alex Caruso. Caruso, I'm telling you, dude. I'm not kidding. So close to Jabel McGee. Alex Caruso, the New Delhi. New Delhi.

He's better than, yeah. He's New Delhi. He's New Delhi. Um, Chris is good, man. Oh. Okay. If you said so, Kim.

It'd be Danny Green. I trust Danny Green. And I think Danny Green is due for some hot shooting nights. And Kuzma, like I said, he has not been good scoring in the postseason. Another guy who's streaky. He's due for like a 30 point explosive night. He's due. All right.

I mean, some of those stats you brought up, those were like a decade ago when he's playing for San Antonio. Oh, yeah. I was just pointing out that you're creepy. I know, I know, I know. But hey, maybe he's due. He is. He's been due for eight years.

We remember the last time he did it. Was it against Miami? I think it was against Miami, no less, right? Last time that Danny Green was a big problem. The other thing that we did not mention is before we get out of here is, we'd be remiss if we did mention the storyline about Pat Riley and LeBron James and that there's no love loss there. They didn't, you know, Pat Riley said some things about LeBron when he left. He was obviously disenchanted about that.

LeBron has fired back in the past. Also, you know, to hear Brian Winhorse told it, tell it, who has been covering LeBron since he was a fetus. So he would know with Pat Riley texting LeBron after the. 16 title that he won and then no response from LeBron James. And so there is obviously no love loss there. You better know that Pat Riley right now is hoping against hope that his his franchise can exact revenge because obviously LeBron, look, he went and did what he did. He went back to Cleveland and he won a title.

And so it worked out well for him. And now Pat Riley has finally been able to put. together a roster with a real chance, and here they are facing LeBron. Interestingly enough, they never faced him in Cleveland. How crazy is that? Guy was in the frigging playoffs every year. Like the heat never faced a LeBron team over all that time that he was in the Eastern conference.

It just was never a matchup. He was, I guess, busy kicking Toronto's ass every year. But they never played each other. So this is the first time a Pat Riley run organization is facing LeBron. And it's certainly out there, especially because Riley's a former Laker guy too, right? No, Chris, yeah. I mean, I mean, Zach Lowe had a great monologue about this on his pod last week as well, you know, before Miami won the series about the potential of, you know,

people were talking about Celtics Lakers and LeBron having, being a part of the chapter of that storied rivalry. but heat Lakers as well, of course, from a Riley and Miami versus LeBron perspective with them not going into a rebuild, continuing to try to win and get back to where they were. It shocked the entire franchise when LeBron left. They've made it their mission to get back there. And it's poetic that it ends up as soon as they do get back in the finals, it's against LeBron James. and I thought Jimmy Butler had a great quote about this experience for him and what's to come in the finals after they beat Boston.

He said, it's been like this for a very long time. If you want to win, you'll have to go through a LeBron James lead team. You're going to get the same test over and over until you pass it. That test is LeBron James. And we're about to see that, man. We're about to see two differing styles with LeBron facing a franchise that he won with before, that he lost with before, that he went to to win a championship. And I'm excited, dude.

I'm excited for what we're about to see because I think this is going to be a really, really competitive series with a lot of close games, with some tactical changes and lineup changes throughout. It's going to be really high, high, high level basketball on both sides here. And as fans of the game, we're not going to be disappointed. We're not going to be disappointed here. It's going to be epic. I love this finals matchup.

And I love you've got the Lakers. I've got the heat. We'll see. We'll see how it pans out. This is going to be good. This is going to be really good. And I think we both like our situations. We both like our picks.

So that's what makes this. I pick Lakers before the season. I picked them before the season. I picked them before the playoffs. I'm not changing now. That's for damn sure. I did not pick the heat before the season. You know, the funny joke going around Twitter is we do get out of the

Kumo versus Llam. Leonard, like a lot of people were saying. We are getting it, just not the way we expected. With Costas coming off the bench, well, not playing for the Lakers, he's just on the bench for the Lakers. And then Myers-Lennard for the Miami Heat on the bench. Maybe they could, you know, walk over between the benches and have like a thumb war or something. Or maybe final game. Maybe it's like a 15-point difference down the stretch.

Both of them are on the court together at the same time. You think the heat are going to be up that big? Well, they were against Boston. They were against Boston. Yeah. I figured you'd be higher on the heat after they disposed of Brad Stevens in that. I am higher on the heat. I made a whole freaking video for the restart about how the Miami Heat could upset their way to the NBA finals.

All right. That was a title. But you don't believe that. But you don't believe that video, Kevin. What is it that the kids say? You don't believe it. This aged one. Oh, this aged well?

No, I think they say it hits different. That video is going to hit different if they do it. Yeah. I don't like where people say this aged well. I'm not a big fan of that saying. Why? I don't know. People say things in the moment and it's only relevant to the moment.

Oh, that's fair. That's fair. It doesn't matter how things age sometimes. Maybe not. Sometimes it does, though. In this case, that matters. You're saying this. You're still a little sour about the Tatum video.

coming out and then the first half. That was about the plane. I'm kidding. I'll tell you what, though. You know how many messages I got that day? Like, you jinxed Tatum. You curse Tatum. The ringer curse is back.

The ringer curse is back. Go and delete that whole heat could win thing. Please. I don't want that jigs. Don't put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby. I'm so excited. Oh, I am too. Hey, we will talk.

You and I were actually going to be talking. So we want to give people a heads up on this. Typically, we release a mismatch episode on Friday. There is going to be game two on Friday, so we are going to record after game two on Friday night. So keep a lookout for that, and then obviously it'll be up and available late Friday night, early Saturday morning.

You'll be able to catch it before game three. But that's the way the schedule is going to go this week. So you and I will get to talk after game two. I'll talk to you then. Thanks, Ken. Late night Friday. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks always to producer Sasha, and we will talk to you on Friday night.