The Ringer NBA Show - The Warriors Are Back on Top of the NBA | The Answer

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

Chris and Seerat start by sharing their reactions to the Warriors winning the NBA championship. They discuss all the factors, moments, and player moves that Golden State made that contributed to their success, and then speculate on what’s next for the Boston Celtics. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Producer: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a Stars League. But even among the Stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell and Dr. Jay, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Jackie McMullen. And this is the Icons Club. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show.

My name is Chris Ryan. I am joined by Sirot. It's the answer. Sir, what is going on? How are you? Chris, I'm just hyped. I'm just hyped about the Warriors. How are you?

I'm zen about it. I'm pretty hyped. I mean, I think that when I got to the end of last night's game, obviously the Warriors winning the NBA championship. And before we get to that, you know, let's just say congratulations to a few people. Congratulations to Joe Lakub and Peter Gruber for winning it in Boston. That's heartwarming. Congratulations to all guys from Boston in general today.

Congrats to Draymond for the marketing. Congrats to Clay for surviving. Congrats to Steph for winning the most important trophy in sports. And that is the finals MVP, my friends. Don't ever forget that. And congrats to everybody who took Steph for granted and now can't do that anymore. I'm sure there were five or six of you out there. You certainly got tweeted about a lot.

So here we are the Warriors win. The Chip. Boston goes down in Boston. And we want to talk today about like how the Warriors got here, right? And where they ended up. So we wanted to go through a few moments from the postseason where I guess they were like not one shining moment, but one defining moment, but we're doing more than one moment. So multiple defining moments is what we're talking about today. Oh, yeah.

I think I think the championship for the Warriors was a culmination. Like this whole, this whole season was like a process of just becoming a new version of themselves. But the playoffs especially, right? Like, I just look back to March and the way that we're talking about this team. You got Clay who's back, but he's not really back. You know, people are talking about Izzy Washed. He is a step slow defensively. He's forcing the issue on offense.

Or it looks like it because it's like the same shots that Clay always takes, but they're just not going in this time. He's just like a little bit out of rhythm, naturally, after not playing basketball for two years. Yeah. You know, you've got like these different games. I was going back through the game logs because I remember it was such a chaotic time for them. You've got times when, you know, the Warriors' original kind of core of Clay Curry and Dremont is all injured or resting at the same time. You've got these lineups where Jordan Poole is basically just like leading the pack and like you in like, you know, Cominga stepping into his role and into like the Draymon role and stuff, right?

Like there were a lot of moments this season where I was like, oh man, maybe the wheels fell off for this team. Like maybe this isn't their year. maybe they're too old, but, you know, I think pretty much, like, as soon as the playoff started, first of all, you get, like, you get Curry back, and then slowly, there were these moments where it felt like, oh, okay, they figured this part out, they figured this part out, they figured this part out, and they came into Boston basically being like, okay, they're, they're back, they're the Warriors, they're different, you know, they're, they're a little bit younger, we've got some new faces, but basically, like, the, the Geneseequa of this team

is pretty much the same. The team that won the finals felt like the right ending point for this roster and for this team. You know, like, it felt like this was, weirdly, the middle ground between where I think a lot of Warriors fans may have wanted the team to be, which is maximizing steps window and supporting him as much as you can with, like, grade A USDA basketball talent, whether that means mortgaging the future or going deep in the lodger tax or whatever. But, like, you know, people are out there being like trade wisemen, command. and Moody or whoever it takes and get Beal or get whoever.

You know, whoever you could have gotten that was like star, star whoever. And Joe Leukov did say after the game, he was like, who is that? Who are we going to get? And, you know, obviously, like, there are certain guys that just wouldn't work on the Warriors. Like, I don't think Hardin would have worked on the Warriors. I'm sure he, like, could have played for them. But I don't think that, like, that's not like the recipe for a championship.

So I think he had a point there. But the idea, like, of this light years bridge to the future thing was always that We've got this one generation of guys who are aging together, and then beneath them, much in the beginning of their careers, is another generation coming up who are going to kind of continue this championship tradition in Golden State. And the funny thing that happened was, it was the middle generation that won them this championship in some ways. Obviously, Steph won the championship.

I'm not taking away from that. Do you think Steph deserved finals MVP? Oh, we're going to get into that. I got some takes on that. No, yes, he did. but the Wiggins, pool, Peyton, Troika, in this series especially,

I think that's like the reason they won this outside of Steph being Steph. Yeah, it was, so Steph talked about it, like building on parallel timelines and you got this youth movement going at the same time as you've got, you know, all these old guys on the team. And historically, that hasn't worked for franchises for a number of different reasons.

You know, you've got coaches that are focused on doing different things, right? You've got players who don't necessarily want to be giving away all the tricks of the tray that essentially means that the young guys are going to come in and take their minutes, right? Like there's a lot of reasons why these things haven't really worked in the past. You've also just got, I think there's attitude stuff too, where young teams, you got to be able to weather some mistakes and older teams, you want to be able to, you want to be cutting down on those mistakes, right? And I think the Warriors, for a number of reasons, were just a team that was really well situated to be able to develop these guys

and also like progress the way that they needed to as a team to win a championship. And it's really unique. And I think like the thing that I kind of think about most is just the players, like the fact that they were willing to be mentors to guys like pooled Wiggins, Peyton, Cominga, like, Moody, even though like those younger guys didn't necessarily play as much in the playoffs. There's a number of things behind the scenes that happened to. Like they really shored up their developmental staff. They hired Kenny Atkinson, who's obviously been great.

great with human players. They hired Jamma Malala, who was amazing with Raptors and, you know, it was with Raptors 905. And he's the guy who was doing thumbs down on challenges, right? He was, he was, uh, on that. What game was that? I think it was like game, game, game four. He did it a couple of times.

And when I was, like, looking at it yesterday, he had one. But, like, it was a Dremond demanding a review. And, like, immediately all the guys behind the bench were, like, don't challenge that. That was the Al Horford thing, right? Like, I think, I don't know, it looked like everyone just kind of slipped. there so it's probably the right call but yeah that's that's him so I recently I recently did a profile on on Gary Pate in the second. Sure did great piece thank you and I like that you said that these guys are more in the middle as opposed to some of the other like really really young guys right I know age wise

that doesn't necessarily like land but I do think that in terms of comminga especially and wise men especially are upper tier first round that draft picks and so it makes me feel like those guys are are like obviously blue chip prospects. Jordan Poole going at the end of the first round, Gary Payton being undrafted, and Andrew Wiggins being available for anybody who wanted to try and trade for him from Minnesota a couple of years ago

is like kind of this, we find diamonds in the rough, even if we have to pay for them, policy that I think Golden State, I think it was like the secret ingredient. Yeah. No, I think you're on the right track there because Peyton is 29 and Wiggins is 27.

Like these guys are not that young, right? Yeah. And Poo's a kid, he just, but he wasn't expected. to be the guy who was the next back court star for this team as they evolved into whatever they think they're going to evolve into with the young kids. No, but he's also, like, he's also 22 and he's had three years in the NBA and he's like been to the G League and had like, you know, he had the

playing experience last year and he has had the experience of this entire playoffs. He is not necessarily like some of like the completely spring chicken players that they have that we'll probably see in the future, right? And I think that's kind of like, what was interesting is that like, you know, So doing that profile, Peyton was more on the mentorship side than he was being mentored. And he would sit in on some developmental stuff. And so would Draymond. And I know Draymon is also like helped with the draft. Developmental stuff like watching like training sessions for the younger kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Like so the Warriors would have these film sessions that were basically just dedicated to the younger players. Right. Like there's no reason to have at a certain point. I imagine Steph's just going to want to goge his eyes out like trying to figure out how to. just like sit while these guys learn like player personnel for the entire league, right? And I think that's essentially what it was.

Kind of like crash court stuff on things that you just need to know when you get to the NBA. So Peyton obviously had to be a part of that, right? But he's also older guy and he's like, he spent like six years in the G League. And he was more on the side of like, okay, here's how you defend this guy. And Draymond would be part of like those meetings as well too. And like that's one thing that struck out to me was just the fact that they have these meetings. Like they kind of streamlined two sort of different developmental tracks was interesting. and also just the fact that all those guys were there.

So Bob Myers has, you know, talked to Dremont before, and I think it's something that they've talked to the entire team about before is essentially that your job as a basketball player, especially as you age, is to pass a game on to the next generation. This is the entire thesis of Jackie's podcast of Icons Club. Exactly, exactly. And there are certain players who have,

and there are certain players who haven't, but I haven't seen a team really embrace it as much as these warriors have. and especially as much as Draymond and I have. And it's just kind of interesting to see now where, especially watching Draymond kind of get shit on for like the entire playoffs, right? And especially in the finals, I wonder if it makes it easier to drop off.

Obviously, it's not as consistent as a player as he was when you know that you were part of like the next generation's journey to get here. I wonder if it's invigorating. You're right. You know, I mean, like you see some teams that are top heavy and then choose to populate the rest of the roster with, I'm saying PJ Tucker because I'm like, PJ Tucker is a guy who would be maybe available,

not super expensive, a veteran looking for a champion, you know, he got a championship with Milwaukee, but it might be out there and available. Like your, you're like minimum vets who are ready and willing and able to come in and fill a role on an NBA team.

But if you play with those guys, I would imagine everybody's got their own priorities. they're like, hey, I know how to take care of my body. I know what basketball, how basketball works, et cetera, et cetera. When you have this wave of kids coming through, you're almost like relearning basketball by teaching it, you know. And it's funny, it's like to think about the journey that those guys must have gone through. And also Clay, you know, Clay having to basically reteach his body how to play basketball,

Wiggins having to learn how to play a different style of basketball to go from being the A option, the number one draft pick, the star at Kansas, like the face of Canadian basketball. Like, he's always been the like Maple Jordan. Maple Jordan. He's always been the guy on the Wheaties box, even though, like, you know, I don't know if they have Wheaties in Canada, you have to tell me. But he's been reshaped into a role player. You know what I mean? Like, he's been reshaped into people calling him the Scotty Pippen of this team. And it's kind of like an amazing, I wonder whether that kind of transformation is almost like invigorating for the guys like Draymond and Steph who are

at the sort of like finished product point of their game. Yeah, I think definitely. Wiggins, first of all, just the fact that he was on the stage talking to Lisa Sultors with a championship trophy in his hand was just like the most jarring, cool thing that I've, like, out of the night, there's a couple of things that are going to stick out to me. Just the sheer fact of him being there was so crazy. Like I just, you just didn't think it was going to happen for him. Like I had pretty much made up my mind about Wiggins.

years ago. Obviously, as a Canadian, I've been following him very closely, and expectations were very high. And now he's, like, really coming into his own. And I almost wonder if he's going to actually morph into more of a star player next year. You think so? Yeah, I could see it happening.

He's always had the talent. And, like, I think he's figured out that, like, the defensive part of the game is, like, his strong suit. But it always felt like he needed to be good because of other people. And now it feels like he's kind of taking that back. so I'm really curious to see what happens with Wiggins. But you had a game four as one of like your moments for the series. The game four was when I was like, is Wiggins pippen to Steph's Jordan?

You know, and that that's going to be remembered. That game is going to be remembered for the Steph title wave of scoring and the get your top tens out, get your finals MVP valid out. Like this is not a conversation anymore. But the subtle thing there was that like, I think he had something like 17 and 16 that night, right? Like, that was, like, the really solid. And when I mean solid, I mean, like, you can build a house on that game. It's like, if your wing is giving you that while Steph is doing that. And there wasn't a lot of help from elsewhere on the team.

I mean, there was a lot of, like, five, six, eight-point games from other people. But it was, like, Steph and Wiggins dragged that team back, you know, not into the series, but, like, put their stake in the ground. So that was one that really, like, just really made my eyes pop. Where I was like, damn, this dude is, like, understands the moment in a huge, way. Yeah, I think he kind of figured out that if they were going to have any interior presence, it was going to have to be him consistently just attacking Robert Williams the third, which is just, you know, not for the faint of heart by any means, like not for people who don't want

to get blocked because you will. And he definitely had a few awkward moments in series, but he was just really relentless in a way that I haven't really seen before. And there are a number of moments that I think you can kind of look back at in the playoffs that we're defining for him. I think that game five, obviously a dunk against Dallas, was incredible. But he just kind of, he kept leveling up. He kept leveling up. And that's, I think, essentially what I wanted to talk about today and what has been the most inspiring part about this Warriors run to me

has been all these little moments where you kind of have to figure out, is this team going to have the medal, right? Like, it was so different than your average experience of watching an experienced team win the NBA finals, like a team that's been there before, of guys like Wigan Wiggins, right? And there came a point, I think, in the postseason, maybe, like, maybe way earlier for the Warriors, but it became very clear of, like, they actually need him. Like, they really need him to be everything that he can possibly be, be things that he has not been in the past in this moment for them to win. And I think it's just a hard, like, it's one of the

hardest things to do is actually to step up to that moment, do something like, and be something that you haven't ever actually been asked to be. Yeah, I mean, and then, like, he follows it up with the game five performance, you know, that was the 26 point night with 13 boards. That's closer to like what he got drafted for, you know? Right. That was closer to number one pick shit. And game five of the NBA finals to come out and do that. And that's the night where it was like, ooh, maybe Steph has like got enough to go with

his foot. Like maybe he can get one and then he has to take a night and then he gets one. Like it was a real like dicey situation. And that was really to take that from Boston, that was like the night. Boston had to like, that was the one they needed to win if they had any chance of winning the title. That's what I'm saying. Like you see some of those things. You see some of these like reverse finishes. You see like more consistency with a jumper. You see him attacking and you're like, okay. Maybe there's more here.

What was a moment for you that you kind of like going back all the way to the beginning of the playoff that you think where you were like, this is going to go in the documentary about this warrior season? Yeah, we'll pivot away from the finals for a moment here. Yeah. We'll go. Let's go. Let's go back. I think that Memphis series mattered a lot. And I think it had a lot of implications for this series. Like those teams are so similar.

Memphis is similarly physical. They play two big men. They get on the glass. And they're just, like, they're just relentless, you know? Like, they're really hard to defend. And they make your defense do different things. You know, I think the way that Memphis kind of slowed down the warrior's offense, almost prepared them for this.

type of battle in the finals, right? But the thing that I want to talk about first is is Curry's game one block on jaw. That was an incredible moment. And I think, like, looking back, one of the biggest lessons of this playoffs is going to be like, don't target Steph on defense anymore. It's not actually a good idea anymore, especially in the playoffs, especially in a moment where he's like, he's incredibly determined to stop you. I think, first of all, it pisses him off, right? then he gets like he gets mad and then he wants to try a little bit harder not that you need like anything else to make you more competitive in the playoffs but you obviously you notice when you're being hunted for a mismatch and i think it's natural to take that thing a little bit personally he's always had pretty quick hands um quicker than i think most people can him credit for like the swipe down is pretty solid and he's always been up there in steals but he's added a lot of strength obviously and just looking at looking at the numbers tatum was on him. Steff was the primary defender on Tatum 20 times this series.

And Steph allowed 0.714 points per chance. Well, that's bad, by the way. That's really bad. 11 times on Brown, allowed 0.9. Also not good. Smart allowed 0.83. And it goes back to other series as well. Like, one of the ones that sticks out to me is Jalen Brunson, 0.92.

too. And that's like that is an obvious attempt to to kind of take him out of the game and also make him tired. And like I get that aspect of it. Make it work for sure. But maybe pass a ball out. Like he had once like a swipe on Jason Tatum when he brought the ball down too low in I think the fourth quarter that I think was like almost like a dagger swipe.

It was like, oh man, these are over. Is this before or after Jason Tatum had the shadow torn legroom and wrist injury? I'm not laughing at Jason Dato, I'm just laughing at, like, as soon as Boston started losing. Like, it was just like, well, Jason's playing her. He's just not talking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's a, here's a side-by-side photo comparison of like how you. Yeah, probably Steph actually yanked on it.

Yanked his arm out of its socket. He's just not talking about it. But yeah, that one stuck out to me because I think it kind of set the tone for the rest of playoffs. The only player that really was able to like get onto Steph. and do things to him that were heinous, where was Luca Donchich, who did that against everyone, like, at all times.

So that's fine, you live with that. But the rest, like, the rest of these guys, it's like, you're kind of just getting out of your offense. That wasn't a winning recipe for Dallas. I mean, it was like, it looked cool a few times, but it wasn't actually, like, a key to winning a series. No, it just made them look like Houston, which, like, the Warriors love. Yeah, right.

The Warriors are capable of beating Houston before. They've shown that. Right. I think another thing from that Memphis series that I wanted to talk about a little bit was the 39-point loss. which was a very cool moment in general just because of the whole whooped that trick thing. And, like, there was an awesome moment for the gris and an awesome moment for, like, that city and just, like, great television. And there's a way in which, you know, those guys, the Warriors players dancing to whoop that trick and, like, egging on the crowd could have gone wrong.

You know what I mean? Like, it could have been, like, the first thing they show when the Warriors lose to the Grizzlies in the second. or the first thing that they show when it like you know and instead that to me winds up looking like experience and just also looking like knowing how to enjoy yourself throughout the process because it's probably grueling and you're playing every other day and you're tired and every night it's a new challenge and every night there's a new narrative or whatever but having fun getting your ass kicked it also showed like an incredible amount of confidence in their abilities to come back from that.

And there are teams, like, I'll be honest. Like, I don't think Philly could have handled that. I honestly don't know if Brooklyn could have handled that. You know what I mean? I don't know. I don't know. I've really seen K.D. in that kind of, like, hilariously, like, hostile environment where he's also, like, I'm enjoying the fact that we had a terrible night.

And to me, that was like, that's where, like, championship DNA stuff that's so hard to actually, like, define actually kind of like rears its head where it's like, these dudes know what it takes and are. having a pretty good time with this process. Yeah, there's very little that they haven't seen. I think that it was almost like the earliest version of Draymond saying, like, you're going to get this podcast. Like, win or lose, we're going to keep the same energy.

Yeah. Like, that gratitude part of it, I think, is probably a big part of why they won. Like, the moment that I kind of figured out or thought, like, there's no way Boston's coming back from this was, let's jump back to the finals. Clay's closing stretch in game four. He had two strips, like two old school Clay Thompson style strips. I think one of them was Al Horford in the post, and I can't remember what the other one was. And then with like three minutes left to go, Steps's been going crazy all game.

Then he, like, he gets all this attention and transition, pitches it to Clay. And Clay only has like, he has half a second to get off a shot before Al Horford closes on him. and he sees that before he even catches the ball and he just immediately releases. And I just got these OKC game six vibes. And more importantly, I just, it was like, oh, he's back. Like this is what Prime Clay Thompson looks like. And then after the game, he's talking about, you know,

he's talked about it now a number of times like through the press conferences, but just how he couldn't even do a CAFRAs. And he was watching the NBA finals and he was like, I can't believe I'm not there. And pretty much every time he's answering, a question, there's a suppressed smile on his face. You could just feel it in every moment how happy he was to just have the opportunity to be back there again. And I think that really powered them. Like Clay, having the opportunity obviously powered them. I think they were just really

happy for him after not playing basketball for two years, just to be able to be back on the stage again. But just to have the perspective of, we're going to say in the present moment right now, because we have now experienced this enough times to know that, yes, winning in the future and all of it feels good, but nothing is actually cooler than the fact that we're in the middle of this struggle right now. Like, that is the purpose of all of this, is like the challenge that's ahead of us. And taking that perspective into like a 39 point loss or like a, you know, a two one series deficit, like, I wonder if, we talked about this, I think after game one, looking at their perspective and being like, well, is, is Draymond being a little bit blasé about all these

threes that dropped for the Celtics in game one, right? And I think now we have the answer to that, right yeah but he was like we'll take the variance we'll bet on variance with Derek white alhor for yeah exactly and Marcus yeah exactly right obviously I was watching a lot of clay last night too clearly like Steph was like the emotional fulcrum of this and like watching him start to cry was just your girl your girl was crying also just immediately immediately as soon as he started tearing up it was like I'm here let's go but clay talking about he was like talking about the injury in Toronto he was like I kind of like chalk that charged that to the game it was like we played a lot of games over the

five years and it wasn't like that shocking that like my body gave out a little bit but he was like the second one you know the achilles is where i start to like question like whether it's going to come come back together for me and whether it's going to happen again and he's he's like talking about like running underwater and all the stuff he had to do to just get his body back to zero and uh that really hit pretty hard like there's not a lot of teams that i think that have gotten back to the top of the mountain, considering where the warriors were, you know, and like basically having to reconstruct that roster in a lot of ways, even though they have the same core, I can't say how I'm so impressed with them, you know, and it's like, it's weird because like, they're so effervescent

at times, like, and Steph is such like a, a lovely superstar, like, and a joy to watch, but he, because he's not big, he's not like a physically dominating LeBron Kauai type dude. It's just like kind of a miracle that he's won four rings. It's amazing. I think that is actually what's really cool about it is, like, what are they really trying to do? Like, what was the goal of this season? Obviously, it's winning a championship. But, like, when it comes to all the little process steps, it's about just trying to become who you were again. And there is something so earnest and wholesome about that. And getting to watch them do it and also seeing Steph cry.

So there is now, like, it's interesting because, well, it reminds you. you obviously of Jordan crumpling to the floor and that's in the second three P and obviously like there are like there's the fact that it's the first one that he won without his dad and then you have like LeBron crumpling to the floor after his third championship in Cleveland and I just wonder if like the older you get the harder the toll gets and like the bigger the catharsis is when you when you actually win because like this was a really long road back for for Steph for the entire team and it just like it just made me think about the fact like is this sweeter? Is it sweeter than your first one? It sounded like it for those guys. It did. It did. It did sound like it. I think that was probably like the most emotional I saw Steph win. You know what I mean? Like I think it would have been pretty significant if they had finished 16 by winning. You know, you know what I mean? Like if they hadn't lost to Cleveland and they had done that record setting regular season and won a championship and just been like, is this the greatest team of all time? You know, like that kind of thing. But, you know, like, that kind of thing.

And it was really cool, too, like, just to kind of, like, go back to something you were saying in the beginning about the Draymond, Bob Myers' conversation about, like, kind of being Draymond's responsibility to, like, pass down the secrets to the next generation is, like, seeing Dre go up to Tatum and Brown and a couple of the Celtics and immediately on the whistle, like, not going to celebrate and immediately going to those guys. And obviously saying to them, like, this is what it's like, you got to, like, take this and then build off of it. was really cool. I thought it was like a really cool moment. Every once in a while when teams win championships, you see something like that were like, Kerr too was pretty like understated when the whistle blew and he was obviously like really thoughtfully congratulating and talking to the Boston staff. But I thought it was really dope to see, to see Draymond, like, hugging out with Tatum and Brown and being like, this is,

this is the process. Yeah. What a loving we're having today. Yeah. We're just like, we're just basketball appreciators today. Were there any other moments you wanted to talk about? So one of the things I've been thinking about for the last few days, but especially yesterday, it's just like what an absolute joy it's been to watch this team for the last seven years, eight years, however long it's been. First of all, like, I think every sportsman wants this, like to witness an actual dynasty.

And I think that's what this team is, like four championships in eight years and the way that they've done it, staying true to their style, moving the ball around, like combining this like curry's individualistic, bravado, just exceptional shot making with the, you know, like the ethos of like we're going to pass the ball around still and like we're still going to try, like beyond the three-pointers, like all of that is still trying to get something towards the rim and like we're going to stay true to, you know, like we're going to try to please the basketball gods. We're always going to try to please the basketball gods in every instance. Like we are going to try to be creative.

We're going to try to find new ways to play the games. We're going to find like Iguodala in game six and invent a death lineup. and we're going to, you know, then, like, push that further and find Gary Payton and turn, like, turn him into a 6-3 center for a championship team. You can also add, we're also, they also, like, weaponized the salary cap bump and got Kevin Durant. Like, you can throw in their, like, mastery of the salary cap as well, or their willingness to pay the luxury. Yeah. And also, just, like, not stopping. When Joe Lacob talks about it, there's something almost ugly about it, like, the winning never stops.

But when you, when you superimpose that onto the players instead, it's just, like, it's a really cool thing. Like, they aren't really, when you get this good, I can't, it kind of reminds me of like, you know, like, Yergen Klopp in a way of like, we are just winning for the safe. Now you're speaking my language. Like, we're just, we're chasing what's next for us. And like, winning is obviously going to be a byproduct of that. But like, every day is just about us becoming a little bit better. Yurgen Klop called this Liverpool team his mentality monsters.

When he was talking about the Liverpool team from like the year that they won the Premier League, he was like, they are my mentality monsters. What does that mean? No, no, it's a good description. Golden State though. Mentality monsters? Like just having the best mentality? Yeah.

Okay, got you. Should we talk about game four? Should we want to keep talking about game four? Yeah, well, we haven't talked about the most important part of it, which was Steph. Sure, you go for it. Maybe this is also part of what makes it sweet for everybody. It seems like everybody kind of had the same sort of emotional experience of this finals on the team.

Like, they've never been pushed as hard or needed this more. And when I was watching that game four, it kind of brings me back to what I was talking about where you don't see a performance like that from Steph unless it is absolutely. necessary. Yes. Like, he does not play that way. Like, he doesn't go just pick and roll after pick and roll and just shoot the ball unless it is absolutely necessary.

And I think, like, game four must win. He deemed it absolutely necessary. And, like, just kudos to the Boston defense, too, because I don't think anyone's ever been able to pull that much out of him either, right? Like, the way that he was challenged in this series on every level, like, challenged on defense having to be the score being the primary playmaker when you know like you know draymon's like half there for for a good chunk of the series right like the Celtics were just trying to wear him down it felt like and and they just they just couldn't i've never seen him be this good

and he's 34 which is strange and like there are so many moments this season where it felt like are we seeing him become human yeah like there was a shooting slump early in the season and that turned it turned it turned a shooting slump that turned into like wait is he now he's he gone from like the best shooter of all time to like a damien lillard type shooter and what does that mean for boston and you know he doesn't even play until a game one in the playoffs and and he finds this like this new peak and i guess that's what it is that's what's what's cool about it like 34 years old finding a new peak and like the warriors aging finding a new peak that's a really good way of putting it i would say that like game four and six like he did some things that i was like there's just

just like nobody in the history of the game that he could do this. And like I'm talking about like whether it's getting bowled over by Jason Tatum from 30 feet out and still hitting the shot or whether it's like finding a little crack between a wall of like Al Horford and Marcus Smart and shooting a three between their two bodies. Like there's nobody in the history of the game who could have done that. It's cool that he's able to take that unique like once in a generation level skill and also have Honestly, a Jordan level, like, ability to win. His ability to, like, rise to the occasion is honestly stunning. So I guess I'm, like, a lot more, like, passionate about this Warriors team that I thought

I was going to be. Let's go. Let's go. I guess my question to you would be, who do you think is more likely to be back at this place next season, Golden State or Boston? A lot of Chris Middleton truthers on the timeline last night. Oh, yeah. A lot of people being like, yeah, Chris Milton had played.

they would be crowning Janus in in the bay right now. I mean, I guess. I don't know. Yeah. No? No. Okay, yes. But so this is off topic.

But I was thinking about this with Janus. If you want to just shut me down because it's like not about, we're not talking about this at all. But I think if you took Chris Middleton away from LeBron, LeBron would still be in the NBA finals. What do you mean? Like if you'd taken Chris Middleton. Well, the East is like, I was thinking about this with the Celtics, right? So the East is basically like wide open now, in my mind. Like I was seeing about the East and it's like Miami's aging and they have young players.

They're kind of doing like the double timeline thing that the Warriors are, but they're just not as talented. And they're older. And I just have less faith in obviously now seeing what happened, Kyle Lowry, but also like Jimmy Butler, the minutes keep piling on and he's less consistent. So Miami to me is just, they're not a team that if I'm the Celtics, I'm necessarily that worried. Brooklyn is a mess Philly is a mess So you've got the Bucks and the Celtics And

You can essentially look at the Bucks as Like if you want to look at Yannis As like the next LeBron of this Of the Eastern Conference I get that But at the same time Like I don't think there

I don't think he's quite that I think he's close But I think if he was that Then what you're saying Would have actually happened Oh okay If Janus was LeBron, he shouldn't need Chris Middleton to get to the fine. Like, Yonnes, like, LeBron got there with, like, without Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving,

there's just levels of this shit. That was a worst conference, though, right? I feel like that was, that was like, that was back in the bad old days of the Eastern Conference. I get what you're saying, though. And I'm not, I'm not trying to give, I'm not, we're not bringing like extreme viewpoints about Chris Middleton to the four here. You know what I mean? I'm just, I'm just saying, there was a fair amount of, if mid isn't hurt, this is

Milwaukee and Draymond's not getting like, he's not punking these guys like he punked Alfred and Williams at the end of it, right? Maybe. I don't know. I just, I just think about the amount of injuries that the Celtics dealt with like throughout the entire postseason as well, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, Jason Tatum basically had like one arm. Yeah. He couldn't even sign his name. Do you guys, you know what I mean? Like these guys were, no, I know. I'm sure he was injured. Yeah, the Celtics were dealing with a lot. I'm here for it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And these guys are, like, the core is locked in until 2026. So then Brown is only on contract for the next two years. We'll see how much older Horford looks, but all those guys should get better. And now they have this experience. And I think that's a key thing, right? Like, they have now been to the finals and they know what it takes. And that doesn't always mean everything. But I think they have certain baked in advantages that like some of the other teams that have been to the finals haven't had. The biggest one being that most their guys are locked in. They're not going to have a thunder situation where they have to now, like, trade James Hardin and, like, choose between him and Sergei Baca.

Or they're not going to have, like, you know, a hawk situation where everyone's going to be fighting for minutes and wondering about what their next contract is going to look like. They reminded me a little bit more of the Sons in a way. Like, the Sons was in the NBA finals, which I guess, you know, isn't the best indicator. But that team improved a lot in the regular season. And I think, like, that's kind of what I see happening with the Celtics. They found a way to define who they are throughout the postseason. Like there was probably, if we want to do one Celtics moment, it's probably Tatum closing out.

Game sex, yeah. Yeah. And just like the way that they figured out that he's number one option and Brown's the number two option, it smarts like the number three table setting option. And they should probably add a little bit more playmaking. but aside from that, they know who they are now and they can develop within their roles.

And they seem to be okay with developing within their roles because they know what it can get them. And you're going to have healthy Robert Williams, hopefully, a year older. And all these other young players, like Grant Williams is going to be a year older. Peyton Pritchard going to be a year older. All these guys got real minutes and they kind of like, next year, I think they know who their like top eight rotation is. I don't doubt that Boston will...

be in and around the conversation next season. On the flip side of it, I am now in, like, where I was in the middle of last decade with the spurs, which is like I basically stole this, this, like, position from Zach Lowe, which is like, I refuse to bet against the Warriors. You know, like, in the middle of the last decade, I was like, it was just like, if the Spurs are playing, I don't bet against them until proven otherwise. And so this is how I feel about the Warriors now.

I will not be doubting the Warriors next season, even if they are five games over 500 or something at Christmas or having a weird February or whatever. I guess it remains to be seen whether or not they're going to make any changes or what's going to happen with pool and wiggins and what they can afford and all that stuff. But I just think that it's silly to think that they can't get back here again. Never underestimate the heart of a champion, Chris.

That's really all this is about. You can't do it. I never underestimate your. your heart and it's gotten me this far. We'll, we can wrap it up there. Thanks to Chris Sutton for producing us today. Just as a programming note, next Friday, upside high is going to take the answer day. And they're going to do a post-draft show on Friday morning and kind of Kyle and John will give their thoughts on the draft. So look forward to that. I can't wait to hear that. Siritt and I will be back shortly after that with some NBA offseason thoughts and we'll get you guys ready for

free agency and everything else. Thanks to Chris Sutton. Thanks to everybody for listening to us throughout the season. We'll be back soon. Take care. Have a great weekend.