The Ringer NBA Show - The Warriors Even the Series 2-2, Ejections in the NBA Playoffs, and the ‘Snowfall’ Series Finale | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to discuss how the Golden State Warriors tied the series against the Sacramento Kings and what sets the two teams apart before they look ahead at Game 5 (2:00). Next, the guys talk about how this year’s NBA playoffs have been officiated and how the league has handled recent ejections (37:00). Later, they preview Monday’s Game 4 matchups between Milwaukee and Miami and Memphis and Los Angeles (49:00). Finally, Kerm joins the guys for the final ‘Snowfall’ talk (58:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fennessey, one of the hosts of the Prestige TV podcast. HBO's Barry is back for a fourth and final season. And that means I'll be back recapping the show with co-creator and star Bill Hader to dive deep on the themes, scenes, and major moments in the series. Bill will provide insight into how every episode was made and why it's ending. New Prestige TV Barry recaps will go live every Sunday night when the episode ends. So make sure you're subscribed to the Prestige TV podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Popping.

Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bill there. Raja, I'm geeks. I'm geeked. I'm ready to fucking pot. How are you doing, man? I'm ready to go, though. I'm ready to fucking go. I mean, your energy is enough for both of us, Logan.

Let's go. Bro, okay, let's get to the shits. Okay, we'll talk about your weekend another time. We're going to talk about fucking Warriors Kings. The game of the postseason, game four. The Warriors won a nail-biter off a Harrison Barn Miss. this game had everything. It had technical fouls.

It had coming of age stories from one team. It had survival from another team. It had just about everything. And I'm still coming down from it. The energy in Chase yesterday was amazing, Raw. Warriors pulled it out after a miss at the buzzer from one Harrison Barnes. That is always going,

that play right there, the play that ended, it is always going to be etched into my mind because of all the ramifications that would have come out after Harrison Barnes if he would have made that shot, right? All the things that we could have talked about that are null and void at this point because he missed that shot. And we'll get into all the things of what happened down the stretch and all those things. But I can't, it's interesting, Rajah, how a game can come down to one shot and specifically with Harrison, his former team and a fan base that kind of has a weird relationship with him. He could have did it in front of an owner in Jill Lake of who has perpetually had him messed up all the way ever since he got him out of the team, obviously

for Kevin Durant. But there were just so many storylines in that one shot. And I kind of felt for Harrison in that moment. But those are the breaks, Roger. Great game all the way around. What were your thoughts on the game? Yeah, no, that was a fantastic watch of a game. It made me feel like I wanted to be at the game. And very few games make me feel like that.

I'm usually content watching them at the crib. But that one and the energy that was in there, I would have liked to have been in the arena to watch that. The up and down that it was was super, was super fun to watch some of the, you know, I even appreciated it in a weird way, and I normally don't say this, the refereeing in that game.

I thought they kind of swallowed the whistles late and just let them cats get after it. Like you saw multiple guys. There was a lot of physicality stuff that, quite frankly, was a foul, that they were just like, hey, man, we're going to let you all figure it out. I like that.

Yeah, I like that about the game. It was a matter of, I think, one team and I you know I hate to boil it down and try to make it sound like it's as it's as simple as one team's just a little bit more experienced because because it's it's not that simple it's more nuanced than that but I think as it came down the stretch you saw a team one team executed just a little bit more cleanly than the other one did and you know save for step making that huge mistake which which you know that's experience um uh that was just a a brain fart, but, but say for that, I thought they executed and got off some clean looks

in a way that Sacramento just didn't execute the same way down the stretch. And it just was a small separator and that's all it took. Well, you know, that stuff, you bring up a great point in terms of just executing down the stretch. I got to think, like if all of these, all of those things that happened to the warriors down the stretch happened to the kings, I think that the warriors are blowing them out, and that's the down to stretch. If you talk about the timeout and you talk about the best shots and just the defensive stops, if you were to switch it and the Kings made all those mistakes, I can't see the Kings getting it to a one-point game, a one-point lead with that much time left, right?

And that speaks to experience. That speaks to, there were a lot of things that happened with the Warriors down to stretch to that game where any other team would have kind of folded, any other team would have folded to talk about the technical foul on Jordan Poole, who has not been playing well this series. You talk about the timeout. You talk about even like having your best player or one of your best players suspended for a game, right?

The Warriors, even in their mistakes have shown that experience can went out. I want to get to the Kings in a second because we have a lot of this. us for the Kings, but are the warriors playing with, are they playing with fire here? Because they haven't, they, they've been very sloppy with the basketball throughout this series. It's a, it's a damn near a minor miracle that they're tied this series to, too. I mean, other than the game three, which was a decisive win, they have been playing in spots really bad basketball and have, just, just sheer experience and being at home, they have won games. As we go into game five, what do the warriors need to do in terms of making sure that they are locked in throughout the whole game?

How do they need to approach game five, which is the first swing game? The playoffs have really started. This is the first swing game. This is when we kind of see what these teams are made of. What do the warriors need to do going into game five from a strategic standpoint? Yeah, I don't know, Logan, but they're always going to be a risk versus reward turnover versus. assist or brilliant offensive play type of team, right? Like they take big swings offensively.

There's a lot of movement. There's a lot of ball movement. There's a lot of reading involved in what they're doing, right? Like, I've got the ball. We're running split action. You know, I'm reading what you're doing and what the defense is doing. And I'm trying to almost lead you into the play with the ball. They're going to be turnovers in that.

Like, you have to live with it. Now, that late turnover, Jordan Poole, like we got the ball up. I don't know. Where are we up six? I'm saying we, like I'm Golden State. but I don't know. Golden State was up five or something like that. We got it. You know, we're about to go play five on four. You see you see Steve Kerr and Draymond both motioning. Let's run. Let's run. And you throw that diagonal full court pass and Malik Munk steals it and they get the quick easy bucket on.

We have to get rid of those. Do you know what I mean? Like the giveaway balls we have to get rid of. But the ones that happen out of our action and we've made a read and someone gets a hand on it or makes a good play or it's just a miscompetable. communication, you're going to have to live with some of those if you're Golden State and the way you play. But the giveaway balls we have to get rid of. Just throwing that shit to the other team out in space, we got to get rid of those. And, you know, I think the game plan for Golden State is if we can get something really good out in transition, obviously we take that, right? Like that, we are a transition team too. We like to play with Pace. But where they've at times been better than Sacramento is when they when they can get into their stuff and just make them guard multiple actions and make, you know, make those defenders. You saw, you saw two plays like late in that game,

um, down the stretch where when I talk about executing. So this is a, a, a check mark in terms of proper execution on, on Golden State, but, but more so than that,

it was just a, an X in terms of poor execution for Sacramento in their defensive assignment. Steph Curry hits a big three. you know, they go under, they go under. Like he kicks the ball to the right wing. And Darren Fox chooses to like go not on ball side of the screen with the cutter. So he essentially gets face cut and Steph just stops and pops a three on the other side of the screen.

Deer & Fox jumps all the way around the screen to try to catch him on the other side. And you can't do that with Steph. You have to stay attached. And then similarly, but with a different type of screen, this is like now on a stagger, a high stagger. you've got Clay Thompson coming up high around the three point line and Malik Monk decides he wants to shoot the gap and not lock in trail

and now Steph just stops and Deer and Fox, I mean, I'm sorry, but Malik Monk was a fingertip away from stealing that ball, but you didn't and now Clay splashed another one. And so, you know, again, push tempo, be cleaner with the basketball, but also make them have to guard you

because they have had lapses, Sacramento that is, in terms of their execution at times. At times they've been really, really good. And then, you know, down the stretch, it was a combination of proper execution from Golden State at times and a lack of execution defensively from Sacramento at times.

One of the narratives, you talked about guarding Steph, one of the narratives this series has just been how, I mean, obviously how hard it is to guard stuff, but how hard it is from a conditioning standpoint to guard a guy like that.

Yeah. Can you put into words how hard that is? I think the comp is a Rip Hamilton type, right, or Reggie Miller, like, where you're just going to have to have your win together. But Steph is a bit different because he's just so shifty in a way that I don't, in a way that Rip and Reggie weren't. Like, he's in a guy that can just move directions. And I think he might be a little bit faster than both of those guys. How do you, how do you put into words how difficult that task is? Well, I don't know if he's faster than.

Ray and Rip. I don't know. Is he a bit more shifting? Shifty, I think, might have been the word that I'm thinking. What he has the ability to do is, is handle the ball and be equally as dangerous off the bounce. Those guys, I mean, Ray did it a little bit in his younger years. Like, he had it more on the bounce.

But, you know, you weren't going to be up top with Rip and, and, and, and, and, and Reggie, like, dancing on you as much as you'll have to do that with Steph, you know? So what makes him, I mean, everything makes him really hard to guard. And to answer your question in terms of what it conditioning-wise looks like guarding him, I mean, you got to be in shape to run a marathon. Like you really would have to say, hey, man, can you run a marathon right now? Yeah, I can do that. Like, I might not do it in a great time, but yes, I can run without stopping for this long

because he just doesn't stop. And you have to chase him, you know, all around the floor. he's more dangerous when he moves it. Most defenders' natural inclination when the ball, I try to teach young kids this. Like most people's first inclination when they're guarding the person with the ball and that person throws it to someone else

is to fractionally let up. Yeah. And what stuff and guys like that, it's human nature. So they're gone. And now you're like, oh shit, I don't, where to go? And now you're behind him and it's just causing chaos. So you have to be locked in at all times.

And while I'm telling you how much of a physical toll it takes guarding him, like the emotional energy and bandwidth to stay on assignment and stay locked in, I can't put that into words. There's no context that I could give you to like to show you what that's like. It is exhausting, knowing that damn it, like I can't ever not be locked into this assignment because if I'm not, just for a split second, he hit me in the face with a three. and you saw it. Like, you know, those dudes would do everything right. Davian Mitchell is guarding the shit out of Steph, man.

He's had also, let's want to give a quick aside. Davian Mitchell's had a great series. We'll talk about the Kings in a second, but I just want to highlight Davian Mitchell. And he was giving step. And it's one of those things where Steph is just winning out at this point because it's later in the series, right? But the first two two and a half games,

Davy on Mitchell was in Steph's shit the whole time and was not letting up. was not giving up and also giving you some points on the offensive in right like he has been a tough basketball player it's a tough defender on step no i have real respect for the job he's doing and even you know yesterday at times i'm not he wasn't stopping step necessarily step had 30 and change but you're making him work sometimes as a defender what i have to say is man did i make that man earn that you know and and like sometimes that's all you can take away from that like Like, yo, good O is going to be a good deal every day of a week.

You're going to any pickup game and, you know, in the summertime with pros, and their cats playing real solid defense and shot makers make shots. So, you know, you just do your best to try to get him off of a spot or make it real difficult and make them earn it. And I thought he did that. Here's the last thing about Steph when you talk about the shape that he's in. So you've got to be in this great anaerobic or aerobic shape. I don't know which one is which, but you got to be able to chase. Better shape than us.

legs do that, right? You got to be mentally tough as hell and locked in with a concentration level that I can't explain. The last part about Steph, what I really appreciate about Steph right now is he dictates physicality more now than he ever did. Like he was coming at DeVion Mitchell's chest on a lot of those drives. Like he's stronger than he's been. He's more physical at times in the paint than I've seen him in the past. And so, you know, you add that on top of all of the rest of it and he becomes a virtually unguarded dude man yeah it's it's it's it's crazy just how many how much easier it is for him to get in the lane than it was a few years ago right even like three four years ago it was not to say it was harder for him to get into the lane but like he was he was

falling down now he's just like he's in there right like he's really he's taking on bigs now he's it's it's it's it's it's he's definitely gotten stronger one of the other um things at least from the lawyer's point of view was draymond green and he's coming off a suspension and true draymond fashion six minutes into the first game after suspension the motherfucker gets a technical foul which was what's so stupid that's so stupid that's so stupid it's so stupid I love Graham on, but I mean, I love Draymond, but that's so stupid. Okay, well, talk to say, why? Like, like, come on, man.

Like, you can't, you come on, bro. Bro. This is coming from a dude who's been kicked out of games and is emotionally really charged when he plays and is riding that fine line of being in the game and being of value to his team and then getting kicked out and costing his team a game. That's me. But you can't come right off with suspension and get a goddamn tech like that, Logan. I'm sorry.

I asked him after the game. I'm like, so I said, I preface it by saying it exactly how I said it to you. Like, I didn't know it was the first quarter because it was just like after the game. So I knew it was first half. So I say, first half of your first game after suspension, you get a technical. He doesn't even let me finish my question. He cuts me off and says, that was beautiful, wasn't it? That was beautiful.

And he said, and his response was that I'm curious to hear your response. response to his response was that was me sending a message that they're not going to take me off my square. No suspension is going to take me out of my game. And I'm still here. And I'm still doing my shit. And I'm going to be me for forever. I'm going to do me forever. Was paraphrasing his response. Okay. Well, good for you. I would just I would just say that, I mean, again, bro, I can like Draymond and not agree with everything he says, dog. Like that's, there were multiple times. See, what you do in that situation, right?

And I watched that closely. You get that first tech by getting into some shit that you could walk away from, right? And now the rest of the game, when it's not even in your mind that you picked up that first stupid tech, and you're barking at everybody and you're yelling and you're taunting people after you make a play, guess what you subject yourself to potentially getting. Ejected, another ejection. That second tech where you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what happened? Because you picked up the dumb one in the purse.

And he had multiple times, I'm not lobbying for it at all. But if one of these refs are on a bad day and they get caught up in the heat of the moment, Draymond's got a lot of antics in his game. Like he rode that line all night again. And it did not cost his team. So that's cool. But I would just say that at some point, while you certainly always want to be true to yourself, I live by that motto too.

Sometimes you got to be smarter than that. So my question to you on that specific play, because I know you saw the play, if you were to get his message across, how do you get your message across? And I feel like there's a way you can get your message across to get him out of there, right? You just say what you got to say to walk away. Do you know how you do it, Logan? You don't even have to, you do it by making the plays down the stretch that he made, man. Did you see that fucking block on some bonus down to stretch?

That's how you do it. You don't, I don't know why everyone, I tell my young son, Tide this shit. Why the hell do you feel like you have to tell someone after, like, about the play that you just made? The play speaks for itself. Yeah. Like everyone saw it. You don't have to run over in somebody's space. and tell them how good the play was.

So the answer to your question is, how do you get your point across? Just do it. Just hoop. And now, in a different world where you're not coming off a suspension and the stakes aren't as high as they are and you're saying,

yo, that's what I do, bro. Ain't nobody talking. Man, you got to know that I get down with that. But these are different circumstances, bro, you can't afford to be that close to the line. We have to now air on the side of this imaginary line that we talk about walking as emotional players. You can't be toes on it now.

I need you to be a foot away from it at all times. Yeah. Because also those technicals add up too, right? Those technicals add up in the postseason. You don't really think about that, but it's the same amount. It's not the same amount as in the regular season, but if you keep in those technicals,

you can fuck around and get another suspension. I want to talk about the Kings really quickly. And just honestly, how impressed I am with them throughout this whole series, not only their game, but how much heart that that fucking team has, dude. Like, no matter what happens in this series, this team is going to be a team that is going to be reckoned with, provided that they don't pull a Minnesota Timberwolves last year, right? Because that's still in play where you just, where you're so excited about the season that you make a stupid trade to double down and make it, in your eyes, do a title for a title. run. No, they need to do exactly what they're doing and keep on building on what they have. But what they have is really specialized. And I'm talking about they don't, they have everything you'd want in a postseason team except the experience. And it starts with Deer and Fox.

That man ain't backing down from nobody. He's out here. He is playing really well. And they have other guys, man, like Malik Monk and Kevin Hurder, Keegan Murray, who's not had a good series, fucking came to playing game for. Right? Like, just, they got. had fighters on that team, been really impressed about what I've seen from the Sacramento, Kings, Raj. And they're going to be a force, I think, to be wrecked with in the years to come. I really do think that. Oh, I agree. I think, you know, they've showed well through four games. Now, you know, I'm sure they're not sitting exactly where they want to be sitting right now, but they have not backed

down in any way. Those were too hard fought. You got to take this from us if your Golden State type of wins at the Chase Center. And that's what. you know look sometimes again like I just said what you got to do to people defensively is you you got to beat me do you know what I mean like if you beat me I tip my hat to you and we'll take it back to the crib but we're not going to come in here and beat ourselves and just be and they have not done that they fought and scrap for everything and for a young team that that is relatively inexperienced like that's been cool to watch now what I'm looking for is how this pressure that will now flip to being on Sacramento, how that will affect their psyche.

You know, like, on one hand, I'll tell you, like, if, you know, if Keegan Murray's playing like that, um, you don't imagine Hurt or has a poor game like that again. Like you, you, you know, there's some bright spots. There's some things if you were Sacramento, you're say, hey, man, we're going back to the crib. We got another offensive weapon playing well now. Obviously, it's going to be electric when we go home, light the damn beam or whatever they, you know, all of this is playing on our favorite form.

Like the beam, Roger. Show some respect. like the beam. That's what I said. You said or whatever, I'm saying. Like the beam or whatever. But point what they haven't experienced yet,

and it's a really weird thing. And, and, you know, it was always fascinating to me how a series and the complexion of it and the pressure associated with it swings

you know, from one end of the spectrum to the other in NBA series. Like, you know, you could be down 2-0 and feeling like the world is against you and shit, we're in jeopardy being swept and you are and you get that one win back at the crib and you're like, no, we're fine. All we got to do is hold serve in game two, right? All we got to do is hold serve and we're back. And now

that pressure swings to a young Sacramento team that's been playing with house money and now it's on them because they got to win at home. Because if they don't win Game 5 series is over. If they don't want the game 5, it's over. Well, I'm not saying that necessarily. You might be right. But what I'm saying is that's the feeling of that shit. Like, yo, we cannot lose three in a row. We have to go home and get game five because if we think the pressure is mounting now, if we go back to chase down two, three after being up 02, like, you know, it just continues to mount. And so I think this is the first time in this series where I can say, yo, I think the pendulum of pressure.

has now swung to a young Sacramento team. And I can't tell you how they respond to that. I think that their arena, along with Chase and a few others, yet is uniquely able to help them navigate that. Not every arena has the same juice, right? We can agree to that. But their arena and the way they get down, I think can comfort them to a degree that lets them come out

and play free. But, you know, until you're in that situation where you could be tight and, you know, the pressure is high and you think you might be tight, like, until you're in that, you don't know how you're going to respond. It's interesting. Like, we're finally in this series. It is a series now, right? Like, the first two games was fives, right?

Like, we're kicking ass. We're beating their ass. There's no pressure. We're playing with this house money. Game five, you have. have the warriors attention, right? You have the first big, big, big game at home all season. This is the biggest game of your, of your season.

It's going to be loud. And the warriors are going to be looking to take that energy out early. So I think if the Kings want to do it, they got to run their motherfuckers out the building. I got to do exactly what they get big game one and two. Feed off of that crowd, hit them timely threes and just and play with the vibes that you had it the first two games because it is about to be fucking electric. It's going to be electric. It's going to be different.

Listen, if you were, if you were Sacramento, shit was all good just a week ago. It was all good. We were out here, you know, it was all fun in games. Boys was out there living their best life. Sacramento Kings fans were talking big shit. Big shit. And look, I can dig it. You look good.

You still look good. Again, been in situations like this, man. both on my team and seeing people on another team where you're in a situation it happened with us in the Lakers where, hey man, shit was all good just a week ago

y'all was up 3-1 popping big shit. Now people are clawing back into the series and the pressure is now swinging to you all and some people are built for that but the cool, it's not cool,

but the funny part within the game for me is to see the ones that are built for that, looking at the ones who aren't like this motherfucker. Like, bro, come on, man. What are you doing? We need you. On all teams, there's at least one or, no matter if it's bad or good

teams, there's always two guys or two people that are built for it, right? There's always two. And there's always a couple that aren't. No, there's like, no, even on the bad teams, there's two that's built for it. And there's like 10 that are not. And the two that are like, what the fuck, man?

But the Kings have people that have showed that they are built for. De Aaron Fox, who is the leader of the team, one Thao, built for it. Yeah. Malik Monk built for it. I trust some of them. I'm not saying I don't. But what I'm saying to you is you haven't seen them in this situation.

Right? So being built for it will be revealed afterwards. We don't know. Like I tend to think you're right. I tend to think they got cats that are built for it. And so therefore it'll be a knockdown, dragout game five. But what I'm telling you is I played with cats who I thought were built for it. And I played against cats who we were like, hey, man, this is going to be a war.

And then you get out there and you're like, uh-oh. Oh, he don't want to be here. Oh, you can see that. I can see that in his face. He don't want no party. He's not ready. He doesn't want to play in this. And so if I'm Golden State, what I'm saying is, hey, man, look, we'll come out.

and they are going to be riled up, electrified, hitting the bricks, like rolling. Let's just weather the first storm. Let's weather, let's take the first punch. Let's feel the power, all right? And then let's just stay within striking distance. Now, obviously, if we can hop out, we'll hop out. But, you know, there's a good chance that they're going to have all the juice coming out. And so let's just stay attached.

Let's just stay attached. And the deeper into that game that we stay attached, the deeper into that game that we're up one or down three or within striking distance, that pressure that I'm telling you and talking to you about starts to ratchet up even more. And so we'll just stay, stay, stay because we have that experience. We know what that's like, taking this thing all the way down to two minutes to go. And now it becomes an execution game down to stretch. And we trust that we'll do that better than you.

And so that's the game plan. We will ratchet this up incrementally throughout the whole game. and then at the end hope that it proves to be too much for some of them. What guy are you seeing on the Kings that you're looking for like, oh, they're probably going to have a big game? They're the ones that I trust in this one, that I'm like, okay, they're going to be good. They're going to be fine. Who are you looking that is going to be that person? Well, I do think that both Deer and Fox, I think Deer and Fox is fine.

I think Malik Monk should be fine, but there's a, there's a, variance in his stuff, right? Like he can get, he can be high and low. He's played well. I think those two, I trust, I trust Harrison Barnes in his role.

Now, you know, he didn't shoot it well last game. And I don't know a tough miss for Harrison. A tough miss. And then the jury, like,

I think I trust the bonus. I think I trust the bonus. But again, haven't seen you in this. So, so I think the, those three are kind of solid for me, and then around the edges,

like it's going to be interesting to see what Kevin Herder does. You know, it's going to be interesting to see if Keene Murray can continue to shoot the ball well. I actually tend to think that coming off at last game,

he's going to shoot it well again, but we got to see. That's one thing. I'm glad you brought him up Sabonis. I want to see more from Sabonis, right? Ever since, like, he struggled at parts of this series,

and specifically when he was, was at Chase Center. It's just been like, you know, he's been shooting the ball well, but if you look at the game, this has been very pedestrian, right? He's at the top of the key. He's passing the ball off. Kavana Lune has played a really great defense on him, right?

He out rebounded Sabonis in game three. Here's a line for you. Two points and 20 rebounds, Roger, for Kavon Lune. There you go. But I want to see Sabonis kind of take a bit more control. trolling not be as passive, right? Like, yo, man, shoot that fucking jumper. They're leaving you wide open.

Like, shoot the ball. I tried to explain this to someone the other day. We were at University of Florida with my son. And we were talking about what series were we talking about? I forget. But a gentleman was saying to me, like, I don't understand, you know, if they leave you open like that, you know, that's disrespectful. You just, you got to shoot that. And I'm, and I agree to a certain point.

But what I tried to explain to him was, and Avery Johnson used to do. this to me. He was the only guy that did it, man, because it was really counterintuitive at the time, because I shot the ball so well in those years with Phoenix. Avery wouldn't play me. He would basically, in some games, just, like, dare me to shoot the ball. And I was a really confident shooter, but that played games with me. Like, it played, I started playing games with myself in my own head like wait a minute what the fuck what like you know what I mean and so I see that it's a bonus a little bit and what you have to do is just get to a point where you're like yo man this is what I do and I'm gonna do it now I'm not saying you're gonna bait me into shooting it 30 times but I'm certainly not

gonna have any reservations when I feel like it about pulling because I'm not even looking at the rim at times Roger he's not even looking at the right he looks confused yeah like it's get the ball on top of key, okay, let me give this dribble handoff to one of these guards. Like, no, bro, you're fucking All-Star. Like, be an All-Star. That's what I want to see out of Sub-Bonis going in the game five, because it's, they, what were we going to say? No, I was going to say, or, you know, everyone thinks you have to shoot that ball and you don't. Like, if someone is going to give you that much space, just go ahead and eat the space up and get downhill at them. And, you know, what I've seen from Sabonis is he's got to be a little more crafty because, like, when he goes

downhill and tries to eat that space up, his answer is to try to bulldoze you. And they're traveling or he's like, yep, or he or they're, or they're collapsing all to him and or they're, or they're just down. The warriors are downwork just kicking his ass, like throwing him to the floor. They're taking, you know, they're taking charges on him. So like, just be a little bit more, you know, just have a little bit more, uh, uh, saviness in there. But, but, but you don't have to always just settle for the shot. Like, go ahead and drive it at Looney and those dudes and and you know, I don't, I haven't broken down the tape or have a great scout on it, but it just because they do that doesn't mean that you have to settle for the

jumper all the time. There are other ways to be very aggressive in attack. It's really hard as a defender to be sitting seven feet off of someone. They now have a full head of steam at you and then be able to like kind of guard them. And just, you know, so like go ahead and put pressure on them. We're not going to see you guys until Thursday, so let's do predictions now. Who wins game five, Raja? Oh, I was fully prepared to come in here and say Sacramento and then as I talk myself into it. But I'm going to stick with Sack. I'll say Sack wins. I say they like the beam in game in game five. I haven't been right yet. So why be right now? That's awesome. Yo, I'm fucking, I'm going up to SAC for game five on Wednesday.

It's going to be a fucking movie. It's going to be insane. It's going to be great. All that to say, I'm picking the Warriors. Who you got? I got the Warriors. Picking the Warriors. Because you're too scared to do it for some reason.

I don't know why. But it's fine. Let's take a quick break. We're going to talk about refereeing. The NBA playoffs are here and you can turn crossovers into cash with Fandle. Just visit Fandul.com slash Ringer MBA. right now and place a $5 bet and you'll get an instant $150

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And we are back. We had some segments that we're going to get to later on in the program, but Roger came on the chat and the Zoom, or whatever you want to call this new concoction. that we're using. And he said, hey, do you guys want to talk about referee and the suspensions and what the league is doing? And honestly, I don't even have any prep for this, Roger. What did you want to say?

And we'll just go from there. No, no, don't do that. I didn't say, do you want to? I said, are we going to? Because it was a big story over the weekend and we hadn't potted. And so that's what I said. Now, I just told you in the last segment that I really appreciated the way that the Sacramento Golden State game was refed down the stretch.

Third, fourth quarter, specifically, probably more specifically the fourth quarter. I appreciated that. So this isn't a bashing session on refs. I'm not here to do that. I think for the most part, it's been refed pretty well. I just, I thought that it's been covered

a lot since it's happened and we haven't potted since then. It was the ejection of James Hardin, the ejection of Dylan Brooks, and the non-ejection of dwell in B. I thought all three of those were wrong. Oh shit. Let's go down the line. All three wrong. Let's go down the line. Well, one person kicked someone, whether he connected

or not, he took his leg for everyone to see absolutely undeniably kicked someone. Okay? Yeah. The other two plays, if you've ever guarded. someone or you've ever been being guarded and your off hand is doing something, there is no real way to say definitively, hey, man, I'm about to hit him in his nuts. Or, hey, LeBron is going behind his back. Let me punch him into balls. That doesn't happen like that, man. So while there were connections and like I'm not saying that feels good or anything like

that I don't think either one of those was on purpose at all. And so I just felt like we didn't, we didn't get those right. I don't think those were gotten right. Like now someone kick someone, like literally kicked him. You got that one wrong too. This is what I will say. At least for the, at least for the Dylan Brooks situation. Dylan Brooks just has not been low in anything that he's done. Like, he just, he can't, he can't. I'm not even going to say he can't catch a break because he brought it all, all the shit on himself. But like, after you talk all that, right?

We, I think that the biggest thing right now is what we're seeing, especially with Joe Dumars, who is ahead of these, these suspensions and these, in these, in these, disciplinary things, right? We are seeing right now, at least as a league, your reputation is now more important than ever, than ever, right? Like, you, and that's, and it's at least. been influencing how the NBA doles out some sort of punishment, right? Going into the game, Dylan Brooks talked a lot of cash shit and all of us about one LeBron James.

And then he goes in and hits him in the go-nats. And for everyone to see. It doesn't even make sense, man. Do you think someone that's under that fine of a microscope is going to throw a punch at someone's nuts in the middle of staple center in the first half of a bed. That doesn't even make sense? No.

It doesn't. But LeBron milked the shit out of that, didn't he? Yeah, good for you, LeBron. And, Dylan Brooks, he did bring it all on himself. Like, you know, you out there popping all of that and you weren't playing well and all of that. But again, I mean, I just don't, those two calls were really tough for me.

And maybe because, and I'll tell you a story, maybe because and when you say reputation is is more important now than it has ever been I would disagree because I had an instance in Toronto

on a sleepy like Wednesday night where Andrea Bargiani was running at me kind of full speed and I was in transition and so I was in the paint waiting for Andrea Bargiani

and I tried to meet him around the free throw line and try to stand him up so he couldn't bury me under the rim and Andrea Barney he came down with his 260, 270 and just ran me over. Boom. Right. And so I think I got the offensive foul. Play went on. And we won. We get on the flight. We go home. The next morning I get a call from the NBA.

And the NBA says, hey, we're calling you about a play that happened with four minutes and 30 seconds to go in the second quarter in Toronto last night. It appears that you tried to kick Andre Barney in the groin. And I honestly had no idea what they were talking about. I was like, what are you talking about, bro? Like, I don't know. And they were like, well, you know, we're going to send you the clip, review it, and then we want a statement on it. I said, they said, we've already gotten one from Andrea. I said, well, what did Andrea say?

He said, they said, Andrea said that you did not kick him and you did not try to kick him. I said, well, I mean, I echo that because I don't even remember the play. Now, at reviewing the play, I get knocked down on my back, right, with some viciousness. So as I fall back, Andrea is naturally now kind of over me. My legs come up. Now, no foul in the game, no technical in the game. And Andrea Bariani says that I did not kick him. So I tell the league, I certainly did not try to kick him while I appreciate what you're saying.

I think it's comical. Like everyone has told you the broadcast didn't mention it. It was a non-factor all the way around. And I'm here to tell you definitively, if you're not clear on it right now, that I did not try to kick him. if I'm laying under a man and I try to kick him and I'm going to connect, they suspended me. Do you know why they suspended me? Why did they suspend you? It was basically my reputation.

It was a year after the incident with Kobe. And they told me that they couldn't be sure that I did not try to kick him in the testicles. And so for that reason, they were going to suspend me. So what you're saying is it's always been like that. It's always, it's always. It's always been like that. It's not, it's not, this isn't a new. thing, the reputation thing, this is a, this is this is, this is, this is tried and true is what

you're saying. And, and that shit was, it was like 40 racks, bro. Like, that was a lot of bread. That was a game check. Fuck. And that's like, you know, so like, they've always been on that bullshit. And I think that's whack. And I do, I do think that that is whack in general, right? Like, you, um, you know, I'm thinking even about the, uh, and I want to talk about the differences between the James Hardin and then the Joellen beat in a second. But like, that's one of the things that was kind of weird about the Draymond incident, right? Not to say why he got suspended. It was a suspendable.

So, Fitz, he stomped on someone, right? Like, it is what it is. But to put it in the statement, this is for the last seven years worth of what you've done, is what is whack to me. It's whack. It is whack. It is. Because you could just say, he stomped somebody in the chest.

He's suspended for that. That's what it is. We will not tolerate stomping on chest. Boom. Boom. There we go. That's it. Tried it true. It's fine. Again, I'm not lobbying for anything. As soon as you saw that, Andreemar, you was like, okay, he probably is going to get suspended for doing that.

Should you got ejected? That's a suspendable offense for sure. But you got to say the past transgressions, this is fine. This is enough. No, straight up. Now, I got on Bay Radio the other day and said just that. And they were like, should he get suspended? Obviously, I know what you guys want me to say. Who did you get on with? I don't remember, bro. You got to strike that because I don't remember. their name. I don't know.

Like with Bonte and then motherfuckers or no? No, this was on, this was in the afternoon. Nah, no, this is some afternoon show. They called me like 615. But anyway, um, scrap that. What was I going to say? Yeah, no, I got on Bay Radio the other day.

Obviously, they're asking me about the suspension and do I think he should be suspended? I know where you want me to go with that. But I can't help but say yes, he should be suspended because, you know, you stomp on someone's shots. The same way when, when Kobe and my stuff happened and I was suspended, like I wasn't crying about that. Like that was like that is a suspendable offense. I'm not lobbying to not be suspended. The ones that kind of get me are are the so again sitting there watching the Brooklyn game against Philly and again I'm not lobbying for anything to happen in like in post but

you got someone that kicks someone. Dude that Juel play was insane. It was. It was egregious. It was ridiculous. It was all of it. And I don't, all of it. I don't care what's going on around. This is what I heard all the time. Well, you know, Nick Claxton is standing over him and, and damn, DeMontas Sabonis was holding on to Draymond Green's ankle. Like, if Joel has a right to kick Nick Claxton. Yeah. Like if Joel and Bede has a right to kick Nick Laxton because he's standing over him, Draymond has a right to stomp on Sabonis for trying to tackle him. I mean, it seems like common sense to me. I don't understand.

Listen, this is all we're saying right now. And this is, I know this is what you're saying because of pot of which you for three years. All you want and all players want is just a level of consistency. If you just suspend, if you suspend him, then I get it for sure. I understand. If you suspend Joe L.N. B, it's like he deserved to be suspended for that, right? Especially like, he didn't even get ejected. He didn't even get touched.

It was like, oh, okay, well, that's what happened. It's fine. We could have saved the segment because that's all I'm talking about is consistency. And I'm not even necessarily talking about suspension because you could then say to me, hey, man, like, you could rationalize, but definitely kicked out of the game for that, man. He's going to play the rest of the game and then Nick Claxton's getting kicked out for taunting. Yeah. I'm not even a net span, but come on, bro.

That was insane. That was insane. Yeah. So thanks for letting me get my ran off. I appreciate that. And I think because of that incident that I had, I'm super, I'm super sensitive to the, to the, like, this non-intentional, some things happen in basketball games,

and I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand media members, refs. Things happen, man. We're moving around at full speed, trying to put bodies in position to do certain things. Like sometimes things happen and you couldn't in a million tries connect the way you did on that play because you didn't do it on purpose. It was just by chance.

And on those, I think they need to be better about I agree with James Hardin. And I don't always agree with James Hardin. But you can't be kicking people out of huge playoff games for things not like that. I disagree with that. Because I mean, like we all know that the Sixers are going to. are and will probably just, I mean, they're going to handle the series. It's over.

Like, they're going to handle the series. But say if it's like a conference finals game, dude, or a, like, where the pressure is really on. And something as tickey tag is that. And you're like,

no, you get the fuck out of here. That's, that's not, that's not cool. You know? It's not cool. Let's get into the games tonight.

Game four. Buck's Heat. Yanis is set to play. Heat are up to 1 in the series. I've been really, really impressive, right? Game 4 in Miami. What are you looking for and who's going to win this game?

I'm looking to see how Janus is moving. I'm looking to see what percentage of Janus I'm getting. If Janus is 75% or better, I thought I heard that he might have been able to play in game three, but they were taking precautions, which leads me to believe that he should be 75% or better. But if he's around 80, 85%, I got the bucks. I think he does things for their team offensively

that will free up a lot of other people. And defensively, he cleans up a lot of messes. And that added length, I think it's going to be a problem. And, you know, another tragic, Victor Oladipo, you hate to see that, another knee injury. That sucks. But, yeah, I'm going with the, I'm going with the bucks. I'm going with the bucks as well, but this is just something to keep an eye out on with Yannis,

especially as he's playing, this series looks like it's going to be a long series. And as the playoffs continue to just manifest and to keep going as we keep going deep into the playoffs, this is something to look at, man, because, man, that's, like, he has a back, that shit doesn't go away. As you know, Roger, that's something that needs to be maintained and that needs to be consistently monitored. So we'll see what happens on that. That's tough, man. Like, if he's going to continue to have back issues throughout the postseason, that's just,

that's tough for the bucks, man. And that's tough for their title chances because they're not winning shit without Yadahus. Point blank. No matter how good and how many good games that they have had, they're not winning anything without Yadis fully. That's facts. That's facts.

And, you know, I would take it a step further and say they're not, they're not winning anything without a, a very close to healthy Janus. You might be able to get through the heat. I might tell you, you know, 80% of Janus is good enough against the heat. As you advance, you know, in the playoffs, 75 to 80% of Yonis isn't going to be good enough against some of those teams.

Shit. Damn sure I'm going to be good against the Celtics. I'll say that much right now. Let's go to a game that we've been waiting for. Lakers Grizzlies. We hadn't talked about it over the week. Kings, Lakers, Grizzlies, Game 4. I guess my first question to you about this game is Lakers handled the Grizzlies throughout

the whole game three. And I know you guys are going to say, well, you know, John Morant, you know, had a great game. By and large, the Lakers never lost control of that game. But what I did bring up John Morant, how much carryover will that performance have going into game four, if at all? And who wins this game? I do think there's some carryover from from Jaws performance specifically.

You know, there is, you know, you get some rhythm and some flow and some confidence cooking. You know, it's going to be interesting to see Dylan Brooks was bad coming out with that crowd against him. I've been the villain in the Staples Center where they booed me in warm-ups, you know, where there's a bunch of people there even before the teams come out for layup lines and they're booing me in my actual you know, shooting routine with the coach. I've been that guy. That's, that's not always easy. I think I'm going to take the Lakers. I don't think people realize, though.

I don't think people realize, like, how, like, turt staples can be. A crypto now can be. Yeah. It's, it's, I know L.A. gets the, the reputation of just vibes, and it's Hollywood and people don't really get. Nah, no. The Lakers have one of the best crowds in the league for a reason.

And they're going to boo shit out of you. And they don't fuck with you. They do. But here's the little difference for me. Like some teams and crowds are kind of always rowdy and they just take it up a level. Like Staples has the ability to not always be that. Even though the fans are great. Like, yeah, it could be, it could be, it could just be a great crowd.

And they're not always like, but when they want to, when they want to get turt and be on top of you, oh, they could get that way in real quick. And that's not. I mean, it's interesting. interesting, man. Usually, you know, I don't know. I, I kind of enjoyed that personally. Like, I, I kind of enjoyed that. He didn't seem to like that a lot. Also, he got G-checked by LeBron and didn't respond after that. Like, LeBron went, LeBron don't do that shit. LeBron doesn't fucking go in the middle of a series to go G-check someone. He went, was like, no, man,

listen, this is what it is. And there was a small smirk from Dylan. And then after that, he was gone. He was, I didn't see him for the rest of the night. That was not a great start to the thing. It's not a good look. I think, I think, look, the Lakers, if the Lakers come out, and it would be hard to replicate what they came out with in game three, right? It would be hard to summon that again because a lot of that's organic, coming off of all of the shit that was the Dylan Brooks situation,

and you're coming back to the crib and the whole crowd and everybody. but the way they physically took the game to Memphis, I'm not just talking about AD or or or, you know, LeBron necessarily. You know, you were coming downhill. Austin Reeves, the first few plays of the game was running up people's chest for layups.

Like they were on something. And so if the Lakers come out with that, I'm taking the Lakers. Now, I don't think that they can summon that same level, but I do think I like the Lakers at home tonight. I think the crowd's going to be rocking. I think Dylan Brooks, if you thought they forgot about it, you're wrong.

They're going to be right back at your ass again. Dylan Brooks. Dylan Brooks not only like disrespect to LeBron, he down the line is disrespected the whole team because they have taken that as a front. They have been offended on behalf of LeBron James. So, and this is the thing like Dylan Brooks isn't like he's not as, his game isn't as good to be able to like justify the shit that he took. talks is basically what I'm saying, right?

So it's not like he's going to respond with like seven threes in a row or like he doesn't have Jaws ability, right? Like he can't just back it up with a 45 point performance. So then you just so then you just see other defenders, Vando's getting in there like, get the fuck out the way, right? Like fucking Austin Reeves, like move out the way. Like they have no respect for him and they're pissed off at him and they want to annihilate him.

It's not a recipe for good things. And it's, it's trickling to the rest of the roster. This is why we said Dylan, chill, relax, don't do this. This is not good. Don't do it. All that to say, the Lakers are going to win game four. I think the Lakers are going to win game four or two. You know, Memphis is lighten ass right now missing two post players, right?

I don't think it would have made a difference though, Ra. No, but it does make a difference. It definitely makes a difference because when... Why I said it don't think it would have made a difference? You know why I say that? Why? Because of what Dylan Brooks says. said, if those two bigs are on the floor, right?

And Dillipbrook still did all that stuff. I still believe that the Lakers would have summoned enough energy to have a performance like that in game three. Well, it might not have mattered overall big picture in game three specifically, but it certainly matters. And it would have, you don't just pummel them the way you pummeled them physically in game three when you add two bigs to the floor, especially a Stephen Adams level physical player, right?

So you're not going to just humble them. And that's, yeah. And so, you know, that's where I think if the Lakers, if the Lakers are determined and they're playing, see, what they played with in game three was just this razor sharp, no wasted movement efficiency where they were getting it and they were downhill on your ass. Like they weren't dilly dallying and messing around and they were on top of the rim. And so if they're going to play like that in the absence of those bigs from Memphis, I think the Lakers are going to. the Lakers will roll them tonight. I may not roll them, but they'll win again. It's just going to see.

It's going to, again, this series now turns to what? Every other night. Yep. So the Lakers, the Lakers need this one in a way that I don't think Memphis necessarily does. The Lakers need this one. All right. We're going to stay in L.A. Okay, it's time to pour out a little liquor for our guys.

One last time. I'm going to bring in Kiggity Kerm out of the motherfucking cut. We're going to talk about snowfall. Sneezing finale. How you doing, Kerm? Shit, man. We're going to talk about the end of this show. I've been better.

I've been better, but always happy to kick it with y'all, even when it feels like a funeral. But let's get into this last episode of Snowfall. So in the finale, we see Franklin, you know, at his most desperate as he turns over every rock in an attempt to get his millions back. when these attempts fail, he kind of descends into madness and alcoholism. So before we even, you know, really get into things,

how did you guys feel about the finale? I didn't love it. Why didn't you love it? I'm just, I didn't love it, man. I ain't like to see my boy turn into a fiend right before my eyes, man. And that's what, yeah. I mean, it was cool, I guess, but I didn't love it. I didn't, I wasn't left feeling like, yeah, man, that's, you know,

it just didn't end the way I would have liked for it to end, I guess. Like, I could, I'm not getting into, I'm not a fucking producer. or a cinematologist or any of that shit. I didn't love it. It didn't leave me feeling like, fuck yeah. Okay. Yeah. I say, I will say this.

I loved it. What I said cinematologist? It was a cinematographer. It was cinema, Roger. It was fucking cinema. In terms of like how they ended it, fucking the Boys in the Hood reference and the tribute to John Singleton, right? It was great.

That part was great. I was teary-eyed fucking watching that part. I was like, oh my God, the callback. Did you see the callback? Did you see the call back?

That was me watching that, right? But in terms of how Franklin went out, that was sad. And it speaks to a lot of different things. One, and that I think it was appropriate because I don't think it would have done that era of Los Angeles justice.

if he would have just weighed, like if he would have got out of that unscathed, right? Like it just, it was a lot of people, a lot of people didn't get through it unscathed. And a lot of people ended up like Franklin, right? Or all the way up. But their ego, because that's what it was, man. It was his ego.

There were a lot of outs for Franklin to, to make this hole, right? Like even his boo-boo, Veroneek, shout out to you, like trying to get. get him to sell off his steak and they'd be fine, right? Like, they would be fine with what they did. But he was so paranoid-like focus to get his bread back that he lost everything. He lost his family.

He lost his mother. He lost his connect. Like, all in the pursuit of everyone telling him, and it's both for Franklin and Teddy, everybody telling them, you got to give it up, you got to get up, you'll get it unscaped. Both of them lost what they actually really wanted. in life. And honestly, that was, that's kind of how it was supposed to happen. They shouldn't have been rewarded for the shit that they did. Well, the choices that they made, not the shit they did,

because everybody got blood on their hands, but the choices that they made at the end, they shouldn't be rewarded for that. Hey, ain't nobody come here for no goddamn sermon, my bugger. There ain't nobody asked you to Kelly Blue Book that shit. Hey, but everything Logan said kind of leads into my next point. Well, we got to kind of talk about the people in Franklin's life and kind of where things went these last two episodes. So obviously we already know Jerome and Louis they turned on Franklin

and wanted to get a bigger piece of the pie They dip Sissy shot Teddy Which I understand why she's shot Teddy Like I get it, it's G shit Like I'm not arguing that But that was also Frank Franklin's last Like solidified chance at his millions

His own mother does that to him Leon refuses to give him Any of his 3 million to aid Franklin And getting back on his feet which I mean Franklin was a little aggressive and how he asked for the money but still refused to give him any of his money with the rationale being that you know Sissy didn't want Franklin to to have that dirty money and so why is he going to step in and give it to him I mean whatever Veronique initially goes behind Franklin's back and attempts to sell his stakes and then after Franklin does put his hands on her not cool she takes the kid in the money and runs so did man boy have a a point when he said everyone would turn on Franklin or did Franklin push everyone away in pursuit

of greed? What do you guys think? I'm going to start this off. I think Franklin pushed everyone away, bro. I think people still could, people wanted to help him. And if you referenced my sermon earlier on this segment, I lay it all out of why he pushed people away and how he did it. Very articulently. And I'm going to, and I'm going to go with the fact that he pushed people away. I don't think that people were, turning on him necessarily. I think people loved him, but they were like, I can't,

every time people were like trying to give Brennanford of the doubt to Franklin, he would say, you know what? I'm going to cook crack in the basement. You know what?

I'm going to go put my hands on my queen. You know what? I'm going to, I'm going to continue to get this bread. There was no, nothing. And we said this

in previous iterations of this segment that, yo, that's going to get him fucked up. That's going to get him fucked up. Why is he doing this? He's not acting.

like someone that wants to get out of the game. He's cooking crack. He's cooking crack. What are we doing? That's where we are. He pushed everyone away, Roger. Yeah, I don't see it all the way like that. He pushed some people away. He pushed some people away. And no, and his choices, you know, obviously, you know, led to a lot of it. But there were, you know, again, hey, look, kill Teddy. I got no problem with you killing Teddy. Do it seven seconds later. Like, what the fuck?

I mean, you know what I mean? Like, okay, you don't want me to have this, this filthy money that, quite frankly, I've earned, whether we like the way I earned it or not, I did earn it, right? You don't want me to have it, but you're going to kill him before he can give it to me. And now I'm a junkie. Like, you rather that for me? I don't know about that. And then as far as, as far as Leon goes, like, I can dig it.

But look, if that's my man, I'm going to tell you right now, Logan, if anything ever happens, bro, and your mama is like, hey, we don't want Logan having, and you come to me and you're like, yo, bro, I need it. You got it. I don't give a damn. That's real. That's real. I'm not about to watch you sitting there with brown teeth sneaking out the back of a locked-up house.

You got what you need, my man. Let's try to get you back on your feet. And I didn't, I just didn't love the way that played out. Now, that's what it is. That's true. He could have gave him $500 and been fine. Dude. Listen.

He could have gave him $500. I mean, just, bro, brush, your teeth. Take this and go brush your mouth. Hey, Franklin was out here stuck in the game. It was sick. Hey, oh, quick question, though. Roger, quick question. Good question.

Yeah. If you needed bread for me that I think I know the answer to this, but we need the real ones to hear the answer from this, right? If you needed bread from me, right, and I didn't give it to you, and you out here strung out and I'm coming to your house. You're not going to be that nice to me, are you? And I'm coming to your house three years later. You ain't coming.

You go back and go be that nice and walking and shit and just being like, remember the good old days and we did the real ones pot and we were all good and shit. Walk it. Hey, maybe he's all fucked up. How would you be? Talk about, hey, Logan, I'm proud of you, bro. I know you left me here like this, but I'm proud of you. At that point, though, he was so, he was so like far gone.

at that point, like, I don't know if you want to put that on like a mental strain on who knows what he had been through in those years, but I don't know if Franklin was even fully there at that point. So I don't know if the kindness is from the bottom of his heart or if it's the bottle speaking at that point, if we're being real. That boy, Franklin reminded me a gator from, from what was, Samuel L played gator in, what was that, Jungle Fever? Was that the movie? Yeah. Remember when he was strung out? he was cracked out. Like Franklin gave me straight gator vibes.

I don't know, man. Like, I got it when he said, I'm finally free. Like, I understood. Like, that was, I just didn't want to see it in like that for old Franklin's scene, you know? Yeah. What's the next question, man? What are we at, dog? Any thoughts on how we wrapped up Louis' story or also story?

Louis, we pretty much see her. She's pretty much on the run from the FBI. We don't get any real finality with that. She seems to not get caught, but like she lives another day. That's all we really get there. And also seems to be, you know, training wrestlers in a gym and seems he's going to be getting back with his family at some point. Any thoughts there?

I like the also. I like the also. And I liked Leon out. I did not like, I did not like Louis walking out of that on skate. I'm just going to keep it a buck. I did not appreciate that. I did not appreciate that. Hey, no, no, no.

Does that make me a bad person? I did not. No, there's a thing, no, Ra. They didn't get her. I put money on it. She got caught a few years later. Okay, well, she got caught. She got caught.

All right. She got caught. Let me get a little follow-up episode then. I need to see that. A little reunion joint. I think, I think, I think with Lou in Louis's case, she'll never be whole, bro. She already lost her husband.

because of her bullshit. She's going to have to live with that, you know? And she killed a cop. That's fair. She killed a cop, bro. Like, she's definitely going to get her due. But you see how scared she was and the look on her face that none of this shit was worth it. That is, that is, at this point, that is enough for her.

That was her sentence. That's her sentence. She's fucked. She's fucking in a, in a barn. Scared of her life, dude. That's no way to live. And also, in case you ain't no so. I was a little scared, though, because I don't, I want, she said, I just don't want also to get caught, bro, because I think that he's going to, my first instinct was, oh, they're in North Carolina.

He's going to go back to North Carolina and somehow he's going to get arrested. And I'm like, I don't want that to happen. That's what I was scared about. Oso is my fave. Just go back to, go back to wherever he's from. I just want the family to just go where Oso is and then it'll be fine. Like, don't go to North Carolina. Come to me.

And let's have a big family. We'll just lay low forever. Let's do that. Those are my thoughts on those two peeps. All right. We'll get to the wrap up here. So how did you guys leave the show like thinking about Franklin? Like is there a feeling of sympathy there after all these laws?

Does it feel like Cummuppance? Because I mean, he killed a lot of niggas, man. He destroyed his community. There was a lot of destruction in that. But somehow for me when I left, I still felt this little bit of sorrow for him. So I wanted to check in what y'all to see. Where's the moral gauge when leaving Snowfall with Franklin? I'm conflicted.

I am, because I do, I'm telling you, I do feel some sympathy for Franklin. On different levels. But I think at the beginning of the show, like he was a really bright, like bright future type of young man, right? They got caught up in that shit. And it didn't seem to be like his desire. to start doing that. You know what I mean?

Like he kind of got caught up in it in a way that I'm not absolving him of responsibility, but I can feel for the opportunity loss for a young man who seemed to have had a really bright future, right? And yeah, he did, man. He was pushing a lot of shit doing a lot of nasty, dirty stuff. So, you know, I can understand that. But at the end of the day, I think I would have,

I would have liked, you know how I would have liked for it to end? Like, real talk, he could have lost everything. And, you know, not reaped any of the benefits. to that, but maybe have been in a community like hipping the younger generation to the to the pitfalls of a lifestyle like that. Like, you know what I mean?

Like at a Boys and Girls Club or an outreach center or something like that talking about, hey, young fella, let me tell you why not to do that. He ain't had to have a brown teeth and the bottle. Yeah. But I will say the brown teeth in the bottle, I think it adds a little bit of realisticness to the storylines and the

fact that we see in the first episode of the show ever, we see all to as an alcoholic, you just kind of walk in the streets. And I feel like when you go through such a roller coaster of a lifestyle that Franklin did and you're already probably predisposed to addiction to a certain extent, he was kind of pushed to that. Like I don't know if this is the, it's not the most fun ending, but I feel like it's more realistic than seeing, you know,

him kind of being a wiser man. But I don't know. Those are just my thoughts. What are you thinking, Logan? I agree with you on that one, man, especially, you know, the places, like, I've seen, I'm sure all three of us on this thing, have seen Franklin's in our life, bro. We've seen, we've seen that around where, and not even just in the drug game, but just like overall where there's this big high because they are talented and they do what they do. And they have this, they have this, this meteoric rise on whatever they do. And then because they don't have whatever they need to to sustain it, it's just as fast going back. down. Right. And at a point in time, Franklin, it wasn't about the money for him. It was about, honestly, I don't even know what it was about. That's the big thing that I had in this final episode is like, what are you fighting for, bro? Like, you're fighting for the bread, but you have

enough bread no matter what, even after your mama killed your plug, you still had enough bread to survive. And that's something that, well, Leon, all we wanted them to have is just Africa and just be able to survive. And shout out to Leon, who won the whole. season and won the show, right, who was able to finally before, like, finally made the right choice in the time where Franklin went all the times he had to make the right choice, he just didn't do it. And those are the consequences. So I feel that this is an appropriate ending for a guy that honestly, brilliant person, but just didn't have what it took to sustain that. And that's something that it's not about the ups and downs. It's about sustaining a certain

a certain trajectory and he just couldn't do that for whatever reason. That boy was out there fighting for control and greed, bro. Like that's what he was fighting for at the end, right? That's all it was about.

Yep. Him and Teddy were fighting for the same thing from two different sides. And I still didn't like, still ain't like to see my boy like that. And to close out, you know, where does Snowfall rank

in the drug empire television pantheon? You know, we got shows like the Wire. You obviously got the Sopranos, breaking bad. Power. I'm not saying power is in that top tier with those other three. I was just thinking of shows it came to mind. I love power, but you can't, you can't compare that to the wire. That's just different art right there. But where do you, how do you see snowfall? I think I put it top five.

I don't put it, it's not, it's not above the wire. I don't think it's above breaking bad necessarily. It's not about soprano. I think it's right there, but it is top five. I think I put it in the pantheon of top five for sure. With those just, also it told a story that we hadn't really gotten a chance to hear. We hadn't really seen a competent, great story

about what crack epidemic did to America and Los Angeles in particular. And the wire kind of did that, but it was just so, it was like 10 years after the crack epidemic, right? We didn't get like a full history lesson on it. And I think Snowfall did a great job.

of that. Yeah, I got it. I mean, it's probably top three for me. I don't know. I kind of put the Sopranos in a different bucket, a different category, but definitely not the wire and breaking bad.

But right, right after that, off the top of my dome, I think for me. Yeah, that's right. I have top three. This has been a blast, guys.

This has been a glass, for real, man. I'm going to cherish these snowfall talks, bro. Because damn, what a fucking great show, dude. Thanks, Kerm. Appreciate you, pal. That has been our Monday edition of Real Ones. We're in the playoffs, man.

We're in the thing of this shit, man. We will see you guys on Thursday. Talk soon. Tap in, holla, all the shit. Bye.