The Ringer NBA Show - The Warriors Ice Luka, Plus Draft Lottery Ripple Effects | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by recapping the Warriors' blowout victory over the Mavs, and what Dallas can change moving forward (1:40). Then, they discuss some potential ripple effects of the draft lottery (27:15). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Dad Gistremski, host to the Ring of Gambling show. You want to join my buddy, Joe House and I every Tuesday and Friday. We break down all the lines, the liens, totals, props, and so much more for the NBA playoff action. And JJ, you never know when the podfather himself Bill Simmons is going to stop in. Plus, we are dropping special episodes in the feed around all the big events. We have some major golf coming up, JJ. You want to get in on all of it.

So whether you fancy yourself as a sharp or, Someone who likes to just throw up through Shackles down. Get on the action with the ringer gambling show on Spotify. And welcome to Group Chat, Stockton, California's number one NBA podcast. I am Justin Barrier. Joining me, Big Wise. And live from, what is it, Chase Bank Arena? Chase Center.

Come on. Chase Center. From the Modelo Cantina of Chase Center. You know, really the go-to spot in all of San Francisco, I have to say. On this night, it's just me and a couple people vacuuming. in cleaning up trash after the Warriors game. This is the place to be. Yes, that is Rob Mahoney live from a rousing affair tonight at the Chase Center,

which I still think of it as Rorical, you know? It would always be Rorical in my heart. It's a different building, though. I know, but... Different city. Different city, different side of the continent. Yeah, it's different. Well, all right, so we got a lot on the docket tonight.

We're going to talk about some lottery. ripple effects based off of what happened last night. We're going to talk about Game 2 Eastern Conference Finals. look ahead briefly. But let's talk about the game that Rob is broadcasting from here. Warriors 112 MAVs 87. I, for one, was very excited about this game going into the night after what happened to the Suns in game seven a couple days ago.

Unfortunately, we got pretty much the complete opposite of that performance from the Mavericks. And I guess, like, ultimately a similar result to that game where, uh, This one really wasn't much of a contest. Luca finishes with 27 and 4 and then seven turnovers. Rob, you're there alive. So where do you want to start with this one? I mean, I think our views in this game could be a little different just because obviously I'm here in the media seats.

You guys are watching on TV. You have the benefit of all kinds of commentary and angles I don't have. Don't worry, Rob. You're going to sound smart no matter what. I'm just saying from my view, what I saw was a team in Golden State that seemed to have an idea of where the Mavericks would rotate from every single time. They got into so many four on threes and three on twos and two on ones as a result of getting chased off the three point line. I was just shocked by like the parade of easy looks from the midrange and easy layups that the Warriors were able to get on a really good Mavericks defense.

Yeah, I think the thing is they showed a lot of switch, excuse me, a lot of two on the ball to Devin Booker in game. and he was clearly not ready for it. And the funny thing about Devin Booker is that video that circulated a while ago of him and pick up over the summer yelling at guys for sending double teams at him. Because he was like, come on, man, no doubles, this is pickup. We want to work in our game.

And Joe Kim Noah being like, well, it's part of the game. And Steph Curry is somebody who's been seeing two on the ball for what, seven years now, eight years now? So I think the difference in how they were, able to attack that was different. And then, you know what I think was different, too, is the hesitancy in how the Mavs deployed it was different from the Sons because it wasn't as effective. When your game plan is going as great as you wanted to, like exactly how you drew it

up, like that TV cliche, like, just how they drew it up, folks. Like, it makes you more, like, amped up when you're attacking these teams, right? And I saw a little bit of hesitancy and just some messes. messed up since the miscommunications because Steph was picking them apart, getting it out quick. Of course, we know what Jremont's been doing against four on threes for the exact length of time that that's been the case. And I think the warriors, with that specific approach, we're just ready for it because they have been for so many years now. Well, it also seems like Luca was getting a little bit of his own medicine here, where the warriors pretty clearly were hunting for him

at certain points. And like, maybe that was to get an, uh, and then, fact on both sides of the ball, maybe to tire him out a little bit, like kind of how other teams were going at Chris Paul. So he should have been maybe ready for that after seeing it firsthand. But it just seemed like he couldn't get it going on either end. It seemed like they were really running him into the ground on defense. Now on the other end, it seemed like the Warriors just length really flustered him. Andrew Wiggins, just a standout performance from All-Star, Andrew Wiggins. And then Kavanaughn- Started.

Yeah. All-Star started. That's right. Kavana Looney, future All-Star starter with one of the best games that I can remember from him. And it just seemed like Luca could never get it going. It didn't help that like all the insulary shooters had a pretty rough night,

especially from the jump. But it just seemed like, you know, he was flustered. He ended up with like the scratch over his face, his shoulder was hurt. So I don't know, Rob. Did you see, did it seem like that, like from the core side?

Well, the shots, the Mavs did get good looks from three. They were very quick to point that out after the game, how happy they were with some of those openings. But this is the reality when you have a defense that can guard Luca this way, where you have Wiggins chasing him up and down the court, pressuring him full court. You have someone like Dremont shading behind every action.

Every time he even thinks that Wiggins or any defender on Luka might get beat, Dremont is right there in his driving lane, ready to take something away. When you have that, it puts a lot of pressure on those supplementary guys to hit their shots. All of a sudden, they're not just wide open shots. anymore. They're a wide open shot that you need to stop this warrior's run or else they're going to get it, take it down the length of the court, and they're going to hit three. So the tradeoffs for these role players are really steep at this stage in the season.

Like this is why all these make or break games come down to, did Dorian Finney Smith hit shots in this game? Spoiler alert, he did not. This is a very rough game for Tori and Finney Smith. Or did Jalen Brunson hit his threes? Also did not. And so this kind of cascading effect of all of these different Mavericks' role players not being able to hit their shots.

It makes it look really tough for Luca. It makes it look like he can't break down the wall at the top of his own defense, like the Warriors are running apart in this game. It just makes everything so much less tenable for the maps. Yeah, I think if anything, they're right to be fine with how things happen for them on offense in this game.

Specifically, what I thought was cool about what they did to Luca was it was almost like if you're playing Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, like these guys' understanding of defenses is so complex, you can't just go out and run a zone cover two. You can't just go out and just run manned every single time. You can't just blitz from a conventional place.

You have to try to trick them every now and again or at least make them a little bit hesitant or make them have to take time to diagnose what the defense was doing. And that's what the Warriors did to Luca, right? Like they did show two on the ball. They did meet him at the level on the pick and roll. They did some drop coverage. They did some switch it.

They even ran some zone on his ass. A box and one in this game. Boxing one on his ass. They showed him different looks. And so he wasn't able to get extremely comfortable in any of that. But, you know, again, if I'm the Mavs, Luca knows how to beat all of those defenses. You know, I think he'll be more ready and prepared to attack them going forward. But in game one, they had the luxury of that element of surprise.

And that was nice for the Warriors. Yeah, I guess you could look at it from either direction if you're the Mavs. because Claver also was in foul trouble pretty early here. And I also started to think like, on the one hand, maybe that doesn't a lot. Yeah, maybe it doesn't get into foul trouble next game, right? And that opens things up. But on the other hand, it just seemed like their margin for error is much slimmer than the warriors.

And it seems like they need to go into this five out sort of approach and really to strike fear in the hearts of a capable defense like the warriors to really put the warriors on their heels in order to get what they want. Otherwise, I don't know. I think, like you said, you're coming down to the Bullocks and some of these other guys that beat you. And I think, like, there aren't enough of those guys that you can count on from game to game.

Well, I think the math on it shifts if the Warriors get sloppy again. And one of the differences in this game and really in this series and the dynamic of it is it really didn't seem like Golden State was worried at all about driving. Like, it seemed like that was a point of emphasis for guys like Jordan Poole was,

they're going to chase you off the line, get into the paint, because their biggest guys Maxi Cleebo. Yeah, Maxi Cleaver is really their best rim protector in a lot of situations and the Jaron Jackson's the Brandon Clarks, all of that length you're used to seeing in the paint, it's gone, it's

vanished. The Mavs are five out, all around the perimeter. You can get some great looks by going inside and so that was a stark difference. But if the Warriors do get sloppy and there's like maybe a one or two minute stretch of this game where you saw some of those habits come out. Steph through an overhead

hook pass over two defenders that... He just can't help himself. He just can't help it. And like that's part of what makes Steph amazing. It's part of what makes him great sometimes. It's also part of what makes everyone in this arena grown

when Draymond has to go collect the ball from damn near half court. But then Steph then sprints off the ball into a catch and shoot three. And so it's like if some of those possessions turn a little bit differently and you get into two, three, four warriors turnovers in a row, I think a game like this could break open for the Mavs. And so like that's the blueprint you're hoping for if you're Dallas is Luka. reading this stuff more consistently, your shooters knocking down the shots

that you would hope they usually hit, and the Warriors being the Warriors, because we've seen over the course these playoffs, you can count on them to shoot themselves in the foot from time to time. And this is going to sound crazy saying this about one of the best players ever. I think the Mavs were too deferential to Steph today.

Just this idea that the panic mode absolutely get the ball out of his hands, you know, force these four-on-threes. I just don't think that, they should be doing that for the rest of the series. And especially because Steph could see it coming. Like that's, so it's like, one, I don't think that's great strategy, too. It's even compounded by the fact that, you know, one of the best players ever knows exactly what's coming at them.

I think to me, they got to go with the heavy switching and allow their guys to guard Steph on an island. Because of two things. One, it's, I don't think Steph is the one-on-one player that he used to be. And that's no slight on him. He's just, you know, he's gotten up older in age. And two, the reason why I like it is because it's completely anathlet of what the warriors want to do. And so it creates a certain level of anxiety where five possessions in a row, the warriors aren't doing. They're whizzing the ball around, beautiful game, come off of picks every now and again.

And it's just redounding to one-on-one basketball, which is exactly how they don't want to play. And so I think the Mavs have things they could change up about how they're guarding stuff. because this deferential, always crypto night. If Steph does anything, get the ball out of his hands. I just don't think that they can play like that for the duration of the series

if they want to win. I like that kind of stylistic sabotage, you know? I like playing the game on those terms. And, you know, there have been stretches in the playoffs and really over the last series where Steph has not shot great

from three in particular. It hasn't been there for him every night that he's wanted to go to that. So, yeah, this was definitely one of those games. You could send film of this around if you ever need evidence of the power of the fear of Steph Curry and what it does for an offense and everything it opens up because the frequency with which he was taking

or bring two to the ball was astounding. And it just put so many warriors in positions where Andrew Wiggins is taking practice threes. Yeah. Clear lanes to the rim. It could not get easier for him in this game than it was playing off Steph. And the guys playing behind him know how to do this.

Right? Like it's not like Phoenix, you're watching. where Devin Booker is completely uncomfortable with it. When he gets it out to Chris Paul, who, whatever, he has something wrong. Like, he's not trying to attack this. This is not how they've been playing all year. Same goals for McHale Bridges. Same goal.

Everybody behind the play doesn't want to do this, doesn't know how to do this. Golden State is like, we practice this all the, like, this is what we do, is attacking teams that put themselves at a disadvantage by putting two on the ball. And the bottom line is, like, you should want to, you should, make Steph show you. I'm going to drive people to the hoop, score layups on them in one-on-one. I'm going to take step-back three-pointers

in the one-on-one after dribbling and trying to shake guys. I'm going to, you know, pass and replace and get handoffs and try to do all of this stuff in the 101 against switches. Like make Steph, watch Steph beat you doing that over and over

before you come with something else. Well, I do want to talk about the defense on Luca a little bit more here because we brought up Wiggins briefly. But what do we think of the idea of Wiggins is something of a Luca stopper here. Like, do we think that this is repeatable? That's just not what happened.

Yeah. This was a team effort. This wasn't like Luca on. And, you know, I feel like Luca was, I don't want to say he was passive, but he wasn't as hungry and thirsty for his own shot creation and on offensive initiation. I kind of like that they were letting Brunson and others create, especially when they got out of the zone.

I wouldn't say that Wiggins was just draped all over Luca. and he was just, he just wanted nothing with no parts of the ball. I mean, Lucas seemed flustered by the length that they were throwing at him. I thought Wiggins was the primary guy doing that. He definitely was. And what was interesting, too,

is when Luca did get a chance to mismatch hunt, the best mismatch he could really get was Looney because the Warriors were doing the thing with Steph and Poole where they stunt and recover. You know, they're not letting those guys hang to get attacked, to get posted up into the basket. And so if you're Luca, that's kind of your choice is you're not going to attack,

Draymond. That's crazy. So do you want Wiggins or do you want Loonie? And Loon held up his end of the bargain in this game. Wiggins, I thought, was really pesky in terms of his length. Obviously, he was bothering him over the length of the court, which helps. But it really is about if you have Wiggins on the ball, how much helps does he have behind him? And that's where the Warriors killed it in this game is they were cheating off all the right guys.

They were daring the maps to shoot. And it didn't get punished for any of it yet. Now, they might. if the execution cleans up, if the shots start falling for Reggie Bullock and friends. But so far, so good. This is a good game plan.

And it's a good premise, just like if you want to, in the same spirit of make Steph beat you, make him prove that he can attack one-on-one, make the Mavs role players prove that they're going to go five for eight in a game. Yep. Did Lucas seem sharp tonight?

Like, did you happen to see him at the Mikhailobe Ultra Center or wherever you are pre-game? That's when you know playoff basketball is really back. You know, we've had a tough couple years. There's, you know, all the bubble fun and there's the viral videos that come out of that. But when you get into, oh, was the star player on a team day drinking in San Francisco, now we're really in it again.

We're back. Do we think that was real? No. Do you think that was from today? I don't, but I also don't care. I think people were saying it, like, from what I understood it was old. Some people try to say it was from yesterday, but I think it's old. producer Ben Cruz is saying it's old.

The Mavs officially said that it was not from today. How much do we trust them? You think this is a conspiracy theory candidate here? I mean, it depends. I mean, Bobon was in the picture. He's still on the team. Are you sure it was Bobon, though? Because he's facing away from the camera.

It could be any 7-6 person. I think Igor Kikoskov was there with him, too. So he's still an assistant. This is a pruder film, y'all. Let's get on it, Reddit. I'm just saying. I mean, honestly, I would, I would appreciate Luca Moore if he's able to drink on the day of the game and still play at even this level that he played at tonight. I could barely stay up to 10 o'clock for this podcast.

Let's do it. All right. So what else do we want to talk about from this game? Do we want to talk a little bit more about potential responses from Dallas? Like, where do you go from here? Are you changing things up significantly? Because one thing from Jason Kidd, he's been. good to respond to what he's been seeing early and in adjusting.

So I don't know. Is there anything you're at the top of your mind, Rob, you think they could go to? I mean, I think Waz already nailed a lot of it in terms of what they could do different defensively. And I think that's where we've seen the Mavs make the biggest adjustments

over the course of these playoffs is they've really tailored from game one to game four in particular, how keyed in they are on opposing teams actions, how able they are to take the best players on the floor out of their stuff. Like, They took Devin Booker out of every one of his favorite place and made it impossible for him to get to those spots.

It's harder to do that with the Warriors just because they are so fluid. They're so adaptive. It's not as scripted in terms of what they want to try to run in terms of like some very specific handoff for pick and roll action. That said, you have to, you have to tailor your defense

to be a little bit more comprehensive and, as we've been talking about, to give Steph a little bit less credit. I do think that goes a long way. I do think that if you're forcing even Clay Thompson to kill, the Warriors for longer stretches. Forcing some of these other guys to hit shots,

you're in much better shape. But I also understand why there's that thing in the back of your head that says, hey, Steph Curry is open or kind of open or almost open. I should really run at him and three guys thinking that at the same time. It's hard to wash that out of your brain. Yeah. And look, man, I picked the Mavs before this series because I'm not going to lie.

Golden State's defense has been just very unimpressed. through two rounds of these playoffs. And I just watched Luca just destroyed defenses for two straight rounds. And I'm like, all right, are they going to be able to get this done? And I think they've shown tonight that they're capable of playing just way better consistently than they have so far. That being said, I don't think the Mavs are going to be completely shut down on offense. However, what they did on defense tonight was concerning. I thought this was a defensive loss more than anything.

just, you know, just the easy buckets they gave up a bunch of layups and open threes and, you know, transition stuff. It just the Mavs were the disheartening unit defensively today. Although, you know, I really do still think Luca can carry today. I think they can make shots. I think they'll be able to score on Golden State. But I'm curious to see what the magician Jason Kidd who all of a sudden, you know, I guess we got a new Bill Belichick. Or is he like... It's the new Tyloos.

He's the new Tyloo. I was about to say, is he Bill Walsh? Yeah. One thing I'll say is it seems like the Mavs offense does kind of spark their devens in a lot of ways. And I do think part of that is just because like when Luca hits these like incredible shots, it gives you a jolt. And that is something that you can rely on that can like can really buoy you throughout

the game. When he's not and he's taking them early in the shot clock, it just seems like it sucks to play in those games because digging yourself out of those holes seems a lot worse. And so I do wonder if it's kind of like an offense affecting the defense sort of thing as well. Yeah, Waz, I'm with you that the Mavs defense was not up to snuff. But I think calling this a game that they lost on

defense is being very kind to their 36% shooting and 23% 306.5% shooting in this game. Like this was a pretty comprehensive loss for the Mavericks. They did not play at a Western conference finals level. And this is what happens when you don't show up in that way against

one of the best teams in the world. the sort of shock quality was not horrible, right? And so, you know, make-a-miss league stuff. I thought the process wasn't like, oh, okay, this is completely untenable process. They can't do anything doing this. That's all I'll say for that. I don't want to take anything away from what Golden State did tonight on defense because, again, like, I was blown away, honestly. Yeah.

Are you guys bummed at all that this isn't Suns warriors? Like, because on the one hand, the Luca element of it all does add something new to it. It's a little bit more spicy that it's him against the jug. Did you watch Chris Paul for five games? Like, you wanted to see that for six? Seven, eight, nine, ten more? Like, you really wanted to watch that dude play like that? I guess the question is, do we think whatever was holding them back in that series would have

carried into this series? Most likely, but at the same time, I still really don't know what happened in that series. Is Chris Paul hurt? Is DeAndre eaten mad at the world? Like, was there some sort of infighting going on? did someone have like bad lobster at the pregame meal? Like that was just like a complete bottoming out

in a way that I almost wonder if that was just like a weird circumstance they would have flipped the script in the next series. Pregame lobster? Yeah, you don't have that before you pod? No, I feel like I should though. Is that the expense account? We had an hour before this one as we waited for you

so we had some time to really marinate the Damn. We got a whole boil going out there. Yeah. right. That sounds amazing. Also another thing I will note, Justin Verrier, call of duty did not stop being in existence since

that Brown and you are of course referring to the fact that DeAndre apparently stays up all night playing video games. He plays video games in lieu of sleep. I mean so so far what we have in terms of explanation for the sun's losing is

Call of Duty, Lobster. And I guess in this game the Mavs losing light beer in Luca's case. And yet I have no better answers than any of these, really. If you want to dig down into it. What we should be discussing, what kind of beer does Luca drink? Like, do you think he's a

Pilsner guy? Do you think he's like an IPA sort of fella? That looked like, yeah, that looked like a Pilsner. Definitely not an IPA. It looked a little bit too light, brown and hue. Definitely a Pilsner. Or, you know, maybe like it, you know, just a nice little logger. I mean, he's 23 years old.

I'm not going to pretend he has a especially discerning pallet right now. Right. It was probably like Four Locke or something. So you don't buy this. You wouldn't rather the Sons, Rob, in the series. A team that has a little bit more of a history in big games, a little bit more surgical when they're on rather than having Logan. I mean, they didn't look too surgical in game seven.

I know. I know, but they have it in there somewhere. I just, like, again, 64 regular season wins, franchise record. Went to the finals. Everybody can't accept this. Everybody who thought the sons were going to do something were wrong. That's it.

They had seven games to prove otherwise and they didn't. And guys, we just watched the Mavs play. This is nobody's chuggernaut. This is like nobody thinks that like this is a stack team and like it was a slug fest. And we understand why Phoenix couldn't do it. Like, bro, they have one like incredibly talented looking like he's about be an all-time great player and some nice guys after that. This isn't some extraordinary team.

You know, like, it's not even like Boston just beating Milwaukee, right? Where Milwaukee was like, they just won the championship last year. They've got the guy who's the best player in the league. Like, that's not even the type of team that Phoenix lost to, bro. Well, I mean, Luca is probably, what, top three player in the world right now. Like, he is rising in the same way that Janus, I think. took a leap last postseason. And you don't want to watch that?

You don't want to watch that in the Western Conference Finals? I was just throwing it out there for discussion. I think like I was jazz to see Luca against the Warriors. But like this was a pretty flat performance. And like if we got a couple more of these, I might be like wondering like what could have been. I think I was very excited at the idea of Suns Warriors

during the regular season. Based on the regular season matchups, absolutely. But the team that we just saw, I think I think we're all, get them out of game. Yeah, we're all good to be done with that Phoenix team. If that's how they're able and capable of playing. And I'm not even trying to be all Pat Bev about it, right?

Uh-huh. Like, I'm legitimately like, bro, like, the way that they lost specifically in the last two games. It's just like, this is this team, like, they were done. Like, the way Chris Paul didn't even want to do anything against that defense, like, didn't want to attack at any point when he was, like, going 14 for 14. in previous games in the playoffs and just looking like a stud, I don't know why I should want to watch that right now against Golden State.

I'm happy with the conference finals that we got and, you know, I'm rooting for certain outcomes as a hack media member, city-wise. But I'm very happy with the teams that we got. Yeah, I think that's what people don't understand. The media don't actually root for certain teams to win. We just want quick series and quick games, that you know the outcome by the second quarter

so you could write everything at the buzzer and you want to go to the nicer cities. That's all. That's all. That's it. That's it. Give me the best food cities. Although,

look, we got some pretty impressive food cities. Boston is quiet as kept as great grub. Miami, of course. Really? It's busy. Yeah, yeah. Miami got food.

Well, no, I'm talking about Boston. Yeah. You just... Boston is good, well, this is Washington. This is Washington we're talking about. Listen, Boston.

Boston is more multicultural than we give it credit for, to be honest. Okay. Like, you can get some banging Vietnamese food, Cambodian food. Obviously, we can do all that clamp chowder seafood shit. Of course, that's there. But, like, I've had some incredible ramen there. Don't sleep. The Chinese in Boston is good.

Don't sleep on Boston multiculturalism as far as the cuisine is concerned. Y'all know Miami gets busy. San Francisco, another great food. City. And then Dallas, I, you know, Texas is just obesity and blood pressure. God bless. I will still enjoy it. Rob's native Texan.

Oh, it's a beautiful food city. But we're not giving out any free Dallas wrecks on there. I don't want to blow up the good spots. The playoffs are heating up and you can make every game feel like game seven on Fandual Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Throughout the playoffs, all customers can place a no sweat same game. parlay each week. You'll get up to $20 in free bets if you don't win. Fandle has so many ways to play, and best of all, when you do win, you'll get paid faster than a fast break. All right, it's same game

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1-8009 with it in Indiana, 18777-700 stop in Louisiana, 1-877770. stop in Louisiana, 1-8778 Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y to 467-369 in New York, Tennessee Red Line 1-800-889-9-9-7-8-9-1-800-5-2-2-4-7-0 in Wyoming or visit www. 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. Well, while we're on the subject of the sun sort of kind of after that quick food tour to Boston, Why don't we talk about DeAndre? And so for draft lottery ripple effects, one of the big storylines I thought that was kind of burbling beneath the surfaces, you had a lot of teams that it seems like could if they really wanted to just like hit the fast forward button on some of the rebuilds and maybe

take a trade for, let's say, a DeAndre Aitin rather than make their pick based. I mean, I don't think any of us are draft experts, but the consensus is that there are three really good big men at the top of this draft. The rest of it is kind of, like good, but not great. So, but I do wonder if some of these teams might get into the Aiton Derby. And I do wonder if the sun's based on, I don't know if it's reporting at this point, just a lot of noise coming out of Phoenix that doesn't seem like it might be long for Phoenix, especially coming up on restricted free agency and not getting a max extension when a lot of his draft classmates did over in the fall. So maybe we start there first, Waz, like, what do you make of the whole Aiton situation? This is headed for a divorce?

Does this look bad? Is your Waz sense tingling? I think because... So here's my prediction of how it plays out. The sons aren't going to offer him anywhere near the max, although it will be a nice number. Aiton's going to tell him to go fuck themselves and go sign a poison pill contract. somewhere, basically a two plus one. The sons are going to be too hubristic to understand that, like, this is not good for us.

And so, therefore, we should just get in the process of facilitating a trade for him, a signing trade for him somewhere. So you could probably get more money and we should bring shit in. They're not going to do that. They're going to eschew that because their owner is a psychopath and probably called somebody n-a-k. So, like, they're not going to do that. that. So they're going to bring

Dayton back on a poison pet on a poison pill deal and he's not going to get dealt till a little bit later on down the road. Like that's what I predict happening in Phoenix. Like if a smart team would be like, this is fucked up and we're just going to do the Lonzo Ball sort of thing.

We'll sign and trade him. We'll get some shit back and probably way better shit than what New Orleans got for Lonzo. But I don't see the Suns as that type of team honestly. Rob, do you ever read on the situation? Do we think it's 100% time, just from a pure player perspective, like take the contract out of it. Clearly something is rotten there.

Like, I've never, I can't remember a post-game quote that was more damning than Monty Williams. It's internal. Right. After that whole fiasco. Which, by the way, why won't they even tell us if Chris Paul is hurt? What is the point of even keeping that under wraps? Because it's about pride you don't want to be seen as making excuses for getting pans. There's also a weird dynamic in the NBA right now.

There's a really weird thing going on in the NBA between teams and players and who is allowed to say when a player is hurt. It's kind of funky. And it's like it's swirling around the whole Zion situation. It's swirled through a lot of different player stories over the course of this year where certain injuries have been kept under wraps. Certain injuries have been very loud and very public. I'm not sure what the political dynamics are in Phoenix as far as that stuff.

And with Chris Paul and like what he wants out there and what he does. doesn't. But that's always something I think about, especially with stars of his caliber. But the Aitin thing, I'm just trying to figure out from a basketball standpoint what makes sense for them, because it's clear they need more. It's clear they need, if Aden's going to be a part of their future, they need him to be able to, in positions to do more, because he looked a little timid, a little soft in terms of like settling for a lot of floaters and midrange kind of stuff when he had every opportunity to attack the same small Mavericks lineups. We were just talking about that gave up all of those lanes to the Warriors in tonight's game.

So they're going to need a lot more from him if they have any plans for him to stick around. And that's what makes these trade options so appetizing and so appealing. It's like you could imagine a different version of Aiton somewhere else. Would he even be allowed to be a different version of himself if he stays to play with Chris Ball and Devin Booker? Yeah, I mean, Sir, so he wrote for us a couple weeks ago now, just about how Aiton came into the league is something closer. to a little bit more of a stretch big, or at least he saw himself as that when he was coming up.

I think a lot of people were enamored with his skill, his athleticism, and didn't see him as what he ultimately became, which is kind of like a straightforward pick and roll big, protect the rim, be an anchor on defense, and we'll feed you at the basket sort of guy, which is like probably honestly his best usage.

Like I remember earlier in his career, him taking those jump shots was honestly the worst thing that he could do because it just seemed like he was too, interested in settling for shots rather than like going and playing in the post and using his giant, giant shoulders and frame. But I think it's an interesting question. I think it's a really interesting question about, you know, a high level talented young big band in 2022. Like, what is he? And like how much do you pay that? And can he and ultimately become like you mentioned, Rob, someone who can punish some of these younger teams. And if he can't and if that like group of

players who is big and can do that is actually like super small, like does the gap between high class bigs and low class bigs actually become a complete chasm? And it's actually like a couple guys and then everybody else. That seems kind of likely, honestly. Like the number of guys for whom the best case scenario is Clint Capella, like that's a tough place to be. Like if you think that's true of Aiton?

No, no, no. But I'm still like if, if, if what, if what. If what Justin said is true, like his best role is catch and finish, low fat, you know, take all of the excesses out of your game and play this very simplified role, that's tough. Like, that is a bad outcome for Dandre Aiden. I think he has a lot more potential than that. I think, like, his ball skills suggest there's more to do there. But you have to put him in positions to create, like to participate in the offense. I think there's a reason why when he was put in these positions as a finisher, he was kind of settling for some.

some flimsier stuff. I think if you gave him more of an ownership stake in what you're doing, then maybe you can get the best of both worlds. But Phoenix might not be the place for that. Like playing with Chris Paul in particular

might not be the place for that. I think his best case scenario is somebody who eventually develops an attitude that smaller guys are not going to guard him. And, you know, he's not going to take fadeaways when he's guarded by wings eight feet away. He's going to, you know, back those dudes in,

get them. Like, I'm always like, when I'm watching, I don't know if you guys get this feeling when I'm watching Luca, right, like get Chris Paul switched on to him and he walks him underneath the basket from 15 feet away. I'm like, why can't Aiton do that to a wing

six feet away? I don't understand that. Like somebody needs to explain the like aerodynamic nature of Luca's ass or Senator Gravity ratio and why like Aten can't do the same thing to smaller guys, right? Like eventually, if he becomes

guy who can walk smaller guys underneath the basket. He is absolutely an elite player at his position and is a dangerous threat when you mix that in with his ability to space out to 15, 16, 17 feet. His nominal rim protection

and his ability to move his feet out on the floor on the perimeter, that's a fucking incredible player if he can add that part to his game. Isaiah, I think we have the title for today's episode and it's the aerodynamic ratio of Luca's ass.

Well, which are these teams that ended up somewhere near the top of the draft are interesting to you? So I wrote down a couple. I think the top three are pretty set. I think those teams are bad enough, first and foremost. And also, they're in line to get one of those three top tier big men. It seems like those are unlikely. I wrote down Sacramento at four, the only team that really jumped up appreciably.

despite the fact that they fell flat on their face, even after trading for DeMontasabonis. So they're getting mocked right now for Shaden Sharp, who just sidebar, I don't know much about this, but he seems like a classic Kings pick where he's like he didn't really play at Kentucky, and it seems like there are a lot of cloudy things about him,

but he's super talented. So it seems like cut from the DeMarcus cousin. The other thing is like the best player who will be left is a two guard. ball dominant guy and it's like, are we doing this again? Right, right. Should we do it again?

You know, that's the classic Kings conundrum right there. So what do we think about the Kings, first and foremost? Something involving Aiton for the number four pick. I mean, there probably has to be a lot more in there to balance things out. But like, that is the start of the trade. I don't see it in a post-sabonis world. Okay. You know?

Like, I just don't like the fit of those two guys. Like, again, what I want for Aiton is for him to do some of the things that Subonis gets to do. And so with both of those guys there, taking up each other's space, being in each other's spots, I don't see it. Yeah, and as the sons, why the hell would you want Subonis? You're getting the pick, right? Yeah, because here's the other thing that the sons are facing. Like, their tax bill could be astronomical because not only is Aiton for a strict-free agency, Mikhail Bridges also his extension is going to kick in.

and Devin Booker, which I wasn't aware of until our friend Bobby Marks started pumping out some offseason content as soon as that buzzer goes final on game seven. But Devin Booker is up for a Supermax extension at this point based on his current contract. And so if I'm Booker, I'm like, why would I wait, especially if you're going to trade it and just give me that money? And so this would be a way for them to almost take a tournament to something's future that also, yeah. That's another, it's a whole other question. Well, not to not to poke holes in your premise here, Justin. But I think part of the problem with Aiton Trades is they need something back immediately. Yeah, they need a center. And they're not coasting out the end of Chris Paul's career.

Like, they want to get back. They want to get back to the West Final. They can get back. Absolutely. Like, they are within range with some correctable stuff. And so the idea of trading a player as useful as is right now for a top five pick or a top 10 pick. I don't know that. I think that is probably a non-starter unless there's a really good player. attached to it, which probably wouldn't make sense, given the way Aiden just played. By the way, in a video game world, right? Aiton goes out and gets a poison pill, two plus one, to chart. And so people listen, and the reason why he'd go out and get a poison pill is to leverage

his organization and say, look, I'm going to go out and get a two plus one, which means basically after next season, you're back on the clock again. Right. Right. And in a video game world, you say to yourself, whatever, fuck them. I'll sign up to a two plus one. We'll ride it out again. We'll bring the troops back.

We won 64 games. We were a game away from the Western Conference finals. Let's bring this guy back. And whatever, we'll trade him next summer and get something for him. After we see what we've done again with this core group, yada, yada, yada, yada. Except these guys aren't computer simulations. They're human beings. And so to bring Aitin back again under the circumstances, while again not giving him the money

that he so richly thought he deserved, that just doesn't seem tenable to me. And you know, and you wonder if Aiton in his representation as the stones to go out and bet on himself and be like, I don't need all his guarantee up front. I'm a great player. I can go get that two for one,

and I will get paid down the road what I think I'm worth. You wonder, but those are the games that get played in NBA free agency. Yeah, kind of seems like a no-win situation for the sons. Yes. it's tough because even if they bring him back

and let's say that he just does what he did this season and he just put his head down and went to work and did okay with the situation we're still playing a lot of money in a tax bill and like are we sure that this is the best team in the West if they come back fully healthy next season when Chris Paul is what 37, 38 years old? I mean I think you're in a mix no matter what

you look at this West you don't see anybody who like I don't even Kauai coming back a dude who probably can't play 50 games a fucking year anymore. I don't think you feel bad. And I do want to add just a correction, not even a correction, amidst him wrong. I remember when they stiff this dude,

I was like, you know what, your fourth third best player, stiff him. Who cares? Who cares how he feels? Like, who cares? Like, pay him his money eventually next summer. Who cares? And I think what you're seeing here is like,

when the stakes are as high as a championship, you can't make that calculation. Because everything has to work right for things to be successful. and someone, even your fourth best player, not playing, like, playing severely underneath his capabilities is going to matter and can sink your season. You know, I think if you're middle of the pack type of team and it's like, all right, bro, like you're making us, like you at your best makes us, I don't know, seventh seed, and you at your

worst makes us ninth seed. Who gives a damn? We don't have to count out to your demands. When that guy makes you a one seed and the prohibited favorite going into the finals with him playing at his best. maybe you should try to skew towards making them happy and then try to move his ass later after you achieve some success.

Yeah, the repercussions for that stuff are real. And the repercussions for that game seven for losing a game seven in that disastrous of fashion. That's the kind of thing that leads a franchise to do some serious soul searching to look at contracts, to look at everyone who could or couldn't be available. Like you have to tear,

sometimes you have to tear those things down to studs. I think the sons are good enough. They don't have to do anything too dramatic, but you got to think about it. it after a game like that. Yeah. The other teams I had down here, Pistons at five,

Pacers at six, Pelicans at eight, Pelicans are going to be facing a pretty huge tax bill with McCollum, and then presumably Zion on a max contract, if he doesn't,

he stays there and does sign that. I think the pacer is among them probably make the most sense if you could somehow get Turner in a deal for Aiton. Like if it's Turner plus something else, Turner plus six seems a bit high for Aton,

especially if he doesn't, doesn't commit to the full five years with the Pacers. But I don't know. What do you guys think? It's a very perimeter team if they were to trade Aden for Turner. You know, Devin Booker is already a guy who, for their youngest creator, doesn't exactly attack the rim a ton. That's not where Chris Paul is at this point in his career.

I would worry about how perimeter their team would become if they were to trade for like an out five, like a Miles Turner type, which is why when I think about these options, And again, I think you're probably looking at more three-team constructions in which somebody else would be going back to the Sons in a potential deal. But the idea of what Aiton could be to the Pistons, that's exactly the kind of player they need to kind of continue their rebuild

and the finisher that a guy like Kate Cunningham needs. I just don't necessarily see how all the pieces fit together to make a trade like that work. Signed Zach Levine. Get trade for D'Andre Aiton. You know, various obsession with the Pistons is bordering on. like single white female level

at this point. It's fucking scary, dude. I think that's the right comparison because there's also like a loathing and a jealousy, but also an obsession to what Justin the vibes Justin's putting out toward Detroit at this point. Oh man. I mean, I just want to be in

Detroit, man. Are the magic really going to take Chet Holmgren? You're asking the two draft guys, so we got all the answers. That makes sense? Well, I mean, I think this ties into the discussion we're having, like how many centers, true centers matter in the NBA? I don't know. Like, Hollinger had a good piece about this on the athletic where he set up his draft board.

And he had Chet at four, which is much lower than I've seen a lot of other people, uh, put him. And his point was basically like how many of these highly drafted centers actually matter. He had some stat where it's almost like three have become all stars over a certain amount of time. The guys picked at the very top of the draft. Now, it kind of over. or looks like Janus being found in the middle of the draft and some other guys who have had success. But at the same time, I think he has a point and it's hard to look at these playoffs

and be like, yeah, let's get a center out there when the four teams who are remaining don't have centers. I think the issue for Orlando is Franz Wagner might be their only like stone cold keeper right now. And so I'm not too worried about positionality with that team.

Like if drafting Chad Holmgren and again, we are the worst people, to have a draft podcast at the moment. But if drafting Chiff Holt, Chet Holmgren gets in the way of playing Wendell Carter Jr., then that's just the way it's going to be. Right, right. You're taking Best Player available at this point.

Absolutely. Although I didn't realize the Magic also have Bull Bull on their roster. Like, this fetish for length and size with Jeff Welton and the guy John Hammond coming from from the bucks, like, it's pretty deep here. To me, like, you draft Chet Holgren. getting into the category of, oh, Laurie Markin is going to play three. And it's like,

is he? Really? Right. I get that you're doing it out of necessity, but the most successful teams don't play that way. You know, but, you know, whatever. What the fuck do I know? We all have a type, you know? That's right. Yeah, I'm just looking at the big picture here. I'm just

wondering, like, how much do centers matter yet again, on the one hand, like, they mattered a good deal last finals and last playoffs. this year, not so much. And like, I'm kind of where I was when we were talking about this earlier. Like, I do wonder if the pool for centers that matter is actually pretty slim

and it's actually slimmer than we think. And the cutoff does not include a D'Andre in type. Also, is the preacher man done in Orlando? Is he finished? Technically on the roster for another three years. Or is he somewhere celebrating that Supreme Court decision?

Is he even hoping anymore? What are we doing? He's probably still on a bender from that one. Yeah. Yeah, he's going to be on the campaign trail in, what, two years? Or just like whatever that far-right conference where like Alex Jones is speaking, Jonathan Isaac is second-old-a. CPAC, thank you, thank you.

Reserve. But, C-PAC. Justin, to answer your question, I think it depends on what we mean by matter when we're asking what centers matter because there's Nicola Yokic, Joel and Bede matter and then there's

hey, the dynamic of the Grizzlies Warriors playoff series change when they put Stephen Adams back on the court matters, right? And so I think there's a pretty wide range of those guys. Now they probably shouldn't be max players.

Look at the Warriors. They sport the most celebrated small ball five defender in the history of the league in Draymond Green and they play them next to a center. So like this I'd did it like even when you have

Draymond Green you play the guy next to a center you know what I mean so yeah I think it still matters but again like to what extent do you need a loony or do you absolutely need you know a blue chipper you know I think those are the questions that you got to ask

yourself right and I think that's the question to circle it back with Ait like he's obviously not a loony but I don't know if he's been Anthony Davis right and I do think like maybe if he wasn't the number one overall pick, if he was coming in somewhere in the Jared Allen range in the bottom of the first round,

would we be like, oh yeah, he's a good player, but like, do we need to max him? Like, I don't even think Jared Allen deserves a max, and he was very good as a defensive center. But like,

I'm like, do you need a defensive center making the max? It's working now. It's working fine. But like, if anything, like you're almost like, just holding that spot for Evan Mobley at this point.

I mean, for what it's worth, I think of both of you guys as Anthony Davis is. I think this is a two alphas podcast. hurt all the time. You said it. AD needs a center. Yeah, that's for sure.

Yeah. All right. Just briefly before we turn to Eastern Conference finals, just because this popped up right before we're coming on. Timberwolves. Making it happen. Arod, on the move. They're in serious talks, in quotes,

according to Shams, with Denver's Tim Connolly, the president of basketball operations, I believe, has a very long track record of nailing draftics, like going back to Yolkich, obviously, but also even recently with our guy, Bones Highland,

second team, all rookie. Rob, any thoughts there? Conley, good fit in Minnesota. What do you think? I mean,

he's a really good executive, like a really good evaluator of talent, really good at cultivating and growing something in a market that doesn't attract a lot of free agents. So in terms of the parallels between what Minnesota could be, Denver is a model. model organization in a lot of ways. So it makes sense that you would look to pluck talent from teams like that.

Will they be able to get him? I don't know. I mean, I think it's going to depend a lot on the money, on the incentives, on the power and the security and like the title and all these things that lure guys away from good teams into, I mean,

the Timberwolves are now a good team, but they have their own problems. Like I think if you're looking at Denver, you're probably saying, how much do I want to hitch my next three to four years to a team where two of the primary guys are injured or come back from injury right now? versus in Minnesota, you're looking at Carl Towns,

who I don't know if you guys caught this, but has apparently a CVS receipt length injury report currently. In terms of things he's looking to address this summer, it was daunting, to say the least, that he was that hurt, and has that many things he needs to address. And that's on top of roster issues, figuring out what DeAngelo Russell's future with the team is.

There's all those things. I mean, the wolves are, if you were going to get involved with a young team, I think the wolves are a good team to get involved with. Like, you want to hitch, you want to hitch your career to Anthony Edwards. Like, that's an exciting place to be. But are you going to leave the reigning MVP to do it? Yeah.

You know, I think of so many things through the lens of the New York Knicks when it comes to the NBA, right? And in Denver with absolutely no fucking resources, like the cheapest ownership, one of the cheapest ownership groups in the whole league. Like, this is documented. These guys are allergic to spending money. They don't draw free agencies. And if you look at their track record, their record, win loss-wise and playoff success over the last 10, 15 years or whatever it's been, like Denver's is up there with anybody, right?

Like any, you can put them with anybody, continued on from the Maasai years onto Connolly, et cetera, et cetera. So, like, if a guy can achieve that much success with no help from his ownership, no help from his market, that's somebody you should be looking at trying to get. 100%. And I say the Knicks because if the Knicks had achieved the level of success that Denver has during the Connolly spell,

like when I tell you nobody would ever stop talking about it, like, it's insane. So like, yeah, this guy's done an incredible job with his hand, one hand tied behind his back. So shouts to him if he gets a raise and he gets to go somewhere else where people might actually spend some bread. Yeah, with homegrown talent,

there's this year in which they were hurt two second round appearances and a conference finals appearance. That's solid work for a team in Denver's position. Right. And so according to Mike Singer of the Denver Post, friend of the podcast, the Wolves ID'd four of the top GMs

and Conley just seems to be the most getable. On the one hand, seems pretty encouraging for a new ownership group in Minnesota, especially considering Glenn Taylor, not the most free spending owner, I think it's fair to say. Definitely been some issues or perhaps like his willingness to pay under the table, if anything was something that got him in trouble before.

Yeah. So maybe over the table is a different story. On the other hand, it does seem like the type of thing you put out there to show the fans that we really got this, right? And like, we'll see if this ends up just getting Conley or did they just get him a raise in Denver. I mean, it sounds like good times for Tim Connolly regardless. I know, exactly.

It's a good offseason for him. I will mention, though, the wolves have the 19th pick in this draft. And according to ESPN's mock draft, they are projected to take Nikola Yovich. So that's some information. Full circle. What also makes me think of Nicola Yokic is, I guess, namesake maybe, who was a breakout player. Wouldn't you agree, Rob? That cannot be the segue.

It can't be it. Listen, our friends at State Farm level breakout player. It just reminds me of Nicola Yokic. Maybe Nikola Yovic will be a breakout player. But I think it's time to pace mads.

You ready, guys? Let's do it. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. It's not expected for a team that's loaded with top talent to have other players put up huge games. But then there are breakout stars to find a way to consistently play better than the best.

Was, are there any breakout stars from this year's playoffs who have caught your eye? Hmm. Jordan Poole. Jordan Poole, definitely one of those guys who did this thing in the regular season. But, you know, to quote my great mentor, Stu Gaut, do it in the playoffs and then do it again in the finals. But so far, he's been showing me, man.

Like, he's had some great moments in the playoffs. He's definitely been a breakout guy. To me, as somebody who's like, all right, this is a young dude. Let's see if he could prove himself in the crucible of the postseason. Yeah, what's the threshold here? Like, is Jason Tatum a breakout star if he was already a star and now is one of the best players in the world? If you've already signed a max contract, you can't be a breakout star. Is Grant Williams?

Oh, absolutely. Do we take it back after his game one where he just yelled at everybody? No, you hit seven threes in a game seven. you're a breakout star. All right, we'll give it to him. At least until Nikola Yovic comes and claims a thrown a breakout player. Well, even when you assume a certain player

won't play a big role, they surprise you by securing wins for the team. It's like people that assume they can't afford great insurance, but then they discover State Farm has surprisingly great rates. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Get a quote today. All right. Speaking of Grant Williams and Jason Tatum,

let's wrap it up here with a quick look at game to Marcus Smart, probable. El Horford, delftful. I got to say, like, we focus on Kyrie most of the year. Like, what the fuck is going on? Like, El Horford, presumably unvaccinated. And I think, reportedly, based on what we saw about certain players not being able to get into to Toronto.

They put it out there. He said he's vaccinated. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. What are we doing here? How are people still getting put into protocols right now? Because the NBA is just, I don't know.

I just put it like this. I have a hard time believing that a prominent starter on a football team in the conference finals would be missing a game because of whatever the hell Al Horford came down with. I'll just put it like that. Well, I refuse to negotiate whether Al Horford should be sitting out if he's testing positive for COVID. I refuse to have that conversation on this podcast. CDC said if you asymptomatic, you could go back to work in three days. I'm just saying. Just going with the government.

Well, we'll assume that he doesn't make it for this one. They have market smart. How are we feeling about game two for Boston Wads? You're Boston Celtics. That's just the idea that this is my team. It's kind of funny. Look, I think they do need Big Al 100% just to help them in picking role coverages. Just because he can be more versatile.

He is a little switchy. He does have some basket protection. He can help them on the boards. He does stretch them out to create lanes for guys like Brown and Tatum, which I think is of the utmost importance this series. So they need Big Al back. I think he can still beat Miami without Al Horford. You know, I think they're a good enough team. They just have to hunker down on defense.

Jimmy Butler can't go to the line 20 fucking times again. I think if they just get better about their defense, they could pull out a game two. I still think ultimately they win this series. I think they're a slightly better team. Even without home court, I think they're good enough to beat Miami in this game or in a game five in Miami.

So to me, they're going to win this series. I give them a pretty good shot to win game two. Well, that's where I think getting smart back, regardless of what happens with Horford is pretty important. Like not letting Jimmy Butler score 41 points to me means finding ways in which Peyton Pritchard does not play 30 minutes to get hunted by Jimmy Butler. And giving those minutes back to Marcus Marr to whatever extent he's ready to do that, seems like a pretty good recipe for success.

Like taking the liabilities off the floor, taking away the low-hanging fruit for Miami, that's how they have to win. The heat had it way too easy in game one in terms of their scoring. That's a half-court offense that will struggle, that will stumble over itself if you give them any resistance. And that didn't happen in the second half. Are we still feeling Boston, though? Did game one change anything long-term for you at all? No, they're missing two of their best players, Boston.

I still think they're the better team when they got their guys and they should be getting most of those guys back. Again, Horford's protocol stuff, you know, because somebody was like, well, Steve Kerr missed four games. I just find it hard to believe that Al Horford's going to miss that many games. You're going to get the COVID stamp, stamped on this podcast, man. No, it's not a COVID.

It just, it just feels like players are different than coaches. I'm going to tell you, this podcast is misinformation about COVID or about light beer, about lots of things to that. Listen, I'm just saying, like, I feel like he's going to come back in less than four games. Is that crazy to say? No. Well, I mean, so game one, that is not crazy to say.

Like, Steve Kerr missed four games. Like, he's going to come back before four games. games are up, Mo? I would assume so. I honestly don't even know what the protocols are at this point. It's really tough to follow. But yeah, no, I still like the Celtics in the series if they can get their full compliment of players.

So this is what we talked about all season with them. It's like they have a good five, six, seven man rotation. But after that, man, you're looking at Luke Cornett to save them. And like, it's already getting bleak. Like the Derek White minutes have already been stretched a little bit longer than they should. Great on defense. Just still horrid on offense.

times. It's just, yeah, I mean, Brown needs to play better. Can't all be Tatum. Brown is just so inconsistent in these series. It's just like, if it has had him a little bit more, I don't know, it would make a difference. And then Rob Williams is like laboring. Like he went out of that game one. And like, do we know how healthy is after missing what?

Four, five games of the previous series? I forgot how many. All right. We'll see what happens in game two, but we'll wrap it there. Thank you to Isaiah Blake Leon production. Thank you to Benjamin Cruz also on additional. production. We'll be back same time, same place next week.