The Ringer NBA Show - The Warriors’ Old-Man Strength, With Nick Friedell. Plus, the Rolling Rockets, and a 2026 Draft Crash Course. | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Justin starts today's show by talking to Nick Friedell from The Athletic. They talk about the up-and-down start to the season for the Warriors. They run through all of the major players and storylines that have made this such an interesting start for Golden State. Then, J. Kyle Mann joins Justin to talk about how the Rockets continue to roll after they defeated the Magic in overtime. Lastly, they wrap up with some NBA draft talk. The guys talk through some of their early thoughts on the top prospects in the draft. (00:00) Intro (1:14) FanDuel ad break (3:08) Warriors with Nick Friedell (45:58) FanDuel ad break (46:59) Rockets (1:06:40) Draft crash course (1:09:04) Darryn Peterson (1:15:27) AJ Dybansta (1:23:07) Cam Boozer (1:30:42) Mikel Brown Jr. (1:34:47) Caleb Wilson (1:38:39) Sleepers The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier and J. Kyle Mann Guest: Nick Friedell Producers: Ben Cruz, Isaiah Blakely, and Victoria Valencia Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and, well, at least to start with, you got just me, a little bit different on the show today. We're going to go first to my interview with Nick Fidel talking about the Golden State Warriors, a team that's been pretty lively over the course of this NBA season thus far, but this past weekend, one of the better back-to-back series with the spurs, all the consequences of that series, the Wemby matchup, what's going to go on with the spurs down the road, deadline, all that type of stuff. Awesome interview with Nick, one of my former teammates at ESPN. So check that out.

And then we're going to go with Kyle, talk about the Rockets, who are fast becoming one of the more fascinating contenders in this early going. Reed Shepard, his guy. We'll talk a little bit about him. And then he's going to walk us through a draft crash course for the 2026 NBA draft, already starting to see some prospects on the floor, Darren Peterson, Aji DeBanza, who got smacked by Yukon, by the way, just an FYI over the weekend.

So he's going to give us a little meet and greet, basically, to all the guys you need to know about. No Rob this week. But Nick up first, Kyle in the back, that's the pod. Why don't we get to Nick right now after we hear from our sponsors? You're listening to The Ringer MBA show presented by Fandul. Fandul now displays your bet directly on your phone's lock screen.

And with the latest updates to the live events and player pages, it's never been easier to be part of the game. And Missouri, get excited because Fandul's coming your way December 1st. Download the Fandil Sportsbook app now and play your game. 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus in present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Helph.com. Call 1888-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right, joining me now, I would say the Haley Williams of the Golden State

Warriors beat from the athletic. Nick Fidel. What's up, buddy? Oh, it's good to be with you, my man. Yeah, Steph was looking for the right comparison. And then I remembered as he said that he was the Haley Williams of the group, at least in San Antonio, that he was on stage with them at a concert. He went up and was singing with them. So I think that's what popped to his mind in the way in which did in the last few days. That's right, because he was also seen at like a Benson Boone concert, like last year.

And so, like, I don't know how much you know about this, but is Steph just like a closet, like, mom at this point in terms of like his musical taste? I mean, he's got four kids. That's true. That's a good point. He's in the car all the time, listen to a whole

bunch of stuff. So, hey, Mr. Verrier, whatever he's doing is working. So whatever he wants to listen to and whatever he wants to go through, more power to him. He was unbelievable over this two games set against the Spurs. The games in general were just so, so awesome. It's one of the few instances where one of these baseball series, I think, actually works because a lot of times the superstars will sit one of them.

But we got two clashes. I think Steph had 46 and 49 in there. Let's start with just like kind of big picture about these games and the significance of it. it really feels like Steph and Dremont in particular, but the whole team really gets up in order to protect their corner, especially from the new up-and-coming sort of team, but also in the new guy in Wembe. Does it really feel like that to you when you're seeing these things live?

If the Warriors have any kind of success this year, we will look back on that Wednesday game in San Antonio is a gigantic turning point. Because Justin, in Oklahoma City, they got demolished. They got crushed by the best team that there is. And they knew it. And then Draymond said, not everybody's committed to winning.

And they lived in that new cycle the next day. And you're going, oh, God, well, now they got Wemby on the second night of a back-to-back. I mean, Kerr, after that Thunder game, I don't know if Draymond's going to play in San Antonio. He's been playing a lot of games. He's been playing a lot of minutes.

We need to kind of, rest him and he said, Draymond talked him out of it. And Draymond was awesome defensively in those two games, as awesome as you can be against Wembe. To get Steph to play at that level in those two games, second night of a back-to-back, he really still isn't feeling great,

which is the craziest part of all of this. That game, the first one in San Antonio, was gigantic for them. To go the next couple days later, stay there and win again against that guy, it was huge. And I think it's something that they know can stabilize what was really, really rocky earlier than that week. It's crazy seeing Steph out there.

You forget at times that he's 37. I think because of like it's the flip side of the baby face assassin thing, he doesn't really look that old. He looks closer to 30 than he does to 40. I also think like LeBron is probably normalized what we expect. from a 37-year-old. He seems like he's at the top of his game. But you could feel the stakes in the history,

especially whenever he and Wembe were kind of matched up. One, it was him like bait in the crowd, basically, at the free throw line, but also when he steps back and Wembe as the outstretched arm on the three-point line, you see the clips afterward comparing it to the Olympics and all that. Like, does it feel like these games, like you're watching history unfold?

Because from afar, like, you can almost feel the stakes as they're happening. You could tell that it meant something extra to both of those guys. And what I would tell you having been around Steph long enough is he knows full well what's happening. He is incredibly aware, not only of his surroundings, but who's on the floor, what everything represents. So I don't think it was lost on him at all that he was able to have those kind of

performances on that stage against Wemby. And I'm sure he was giving a little reminder of, remember what happened in Paris? When the Warriors needed the biggest moment to date of the season, Steph provided. And Justin, he's still that good. I think the comparison with LeBron is always going to be there. Those two have carried the league and been the faces for so, so long.

LeBron isn't that good not to the level we're used to seeing him at. Steph is very much at the top of his game. And he may not be able to do it every single night the same way, but he can still do it a hell of a lot of nights. And to see the confidence that he still gives everybody else out there on the floor is unbelievable because they know they've got the baddest dude that there is on their team.

and when he gets rolling, Jimmy said it. I can't have that Wednesday game. Statenotia said, you know what got everything going? You give Steph the ball and you get the hell out of the way. Give him the ball. He'll make it happen. If he doesn't have the shot, he'll create the space for everybody else. But being back around this team this year and seeing how they operate around him,

it's no wonder that they feel as confident as they do because Steph is still. that good and he's still making everybody else around him that better. I'm glad you said badass because there does seem to be an air of crustiness going on with Steph that he probably hasn't had before. I wonder if part of it's just like the compounding effect of having Jimmy and Draymond kind of trickling down to him. But also like he's at that age where you get to be a little bit crustier. Does it seem like that to you when you're around him like compared to perhaps when you were covering him before a couple years ago does it feel like it's not quite villain because he's just such a ray of positivity he can't really quite be that

but at the very least there's a certain like don't forget about me motherfucker sort of swagger to him right now i mean if we're if we're using the words mr verrier this is the best way i can put it step is still the baddest motherfucker in the game and he wants everybody to know that He is well aware of where the challenges are coming from and what can happen night to night. But he's still that dude. Now, and Steve Kerr has said this repeatedly, Yokic, in a lot of people's opinion, mine included, is the best player in the game. The stuff's a bad motherfucker. And when you have that kind of guy who's ready and available on some of these nights where they need a lift and they need a little.

extra reminder. I absolutely think he loves that because he knows that at 37, a lot of people are going, ah, Steph, he's about run his course again at the top tier level. But having been around him for so many different points of his career and then coming back and getting dropped in this year, this guy is just, he's unbelievable. But he's unbelievable. But he's unbelievable. But it goes back to what you were saying earlier. I think in seeing him, he preps himself for this. Like, it's not that every other NBA guy is in good shape or doesn't take care of their body, et cetera.

This guy puts in so much extra work to make sure that he hits that level every day. And what I go back to for context is we're in L.A. in the preseason. And everybody was getting out of, they had a practice at the U.S. USC gym. Everybody's leaving the USC gym. And instead of going right out to the bus, Steph takes a left and he walks into the wait room that the USC men's and women's teams use. And it's just him for another hour going through every routine he's got. And I'm thinking at 37, he could easily, everybody's got friends in LA. I mean, you know this better than anybody. There's dinners and there's lunches and you've got to go meet with agents or whoever. That dude, I'm, a Saturday, as everybody else is kind of doing their own thing, takes a right to do this room and he puts in all this time. That's where I always give him the credit, because at this stage, he doesn't have to do that, but he consistently makes the effort because he knows what he represents to the team,

and he knows the standard he set for himself. So he tweets after this game, which I didn't realize that Steph tweeted anymore. and it doesn't seem like he does a lot of it these days, but it was a nice little photo collage. I have to imagine someone on his team did that, and he wasn't out there stitching that one together, just kind of punctuating not only the event and the win and all that. Also, one of those cells had to be the Kobe shoes that he warmed up

and didn't end up wearing them on the court. A little weird to see him out there in Nike considering the history. And if you don't know about that story, like go back and read all of that about how they kind of didn't give him the proper respect, you ended up in Under Armour, and here we are. What's that like playing out kind of in front of you? I guess it's kind of like a tangential thing, but in a lot of ways, it kind of like symbolizes where we are at this time, where it's like, yeah, we are past the point in his career where the Under Armour, the good old days of the KD dynastic sort of thing,

but like there's this like new thing happening here. And so do you think it's like when you're around it. Does it feel like weird? I wouldn't say weird because the culture has been set within this organization for so long. And Justin has been set because of Steph. Anytime you talk to Steve Kerr, he says the same thing. The reason we are who we are is because of Steph Curry. And what I would tell you is the reason I don't think it's that weird as far as are there changes.

I mean, it was weird as hell, seen him in Nikes and those cobies. That was very strange. And admittedly so, he said, I know everybody's using. see me in my shoes and he wanted to make sure he had those shoes that represented Kobe and Gigi. It was a very cool moment, but it was strange. But I mean, from a broader standpoint about the team, I think with Steph at age 37,

anybody who comes into this organization, and I notice it from Jimmy not only because I've covered him for so long, so many different stops, but certainly in the framework of this team, They don't want to disappoint Steph Curry. It's like he has set this level so high. They want to make sure that he is getting everybody to go and work at the same level that he shows every day. And there is such a respect there.

And it's different than any other veteran I've seen who leads a team because there's always a leader. or two on every group. This guy is just at a different level because of what he represents to the game. And in this case, for some of the years, what he represents to the Bay Area in general, which is so much deeper than the Warriors

at this point. But the tone he sets and the leadership style he displays is crucial. I mean, I think Dremont is very clearly the vocal leader, and he's probably the emotional leader of the Warriors. And he's

still is playing at an incredibly high level. But the guy who sets the tone every day is Steph. And it goes back to so many people get used to Steph flinging up threes from all over the place. And he's hitting these crazy shots. And, oh, man, he's really fun. It goes back to work. Steph puts in the work all the time every day. And there is a respect for his teammates and the coaching staff and people within the organization that see it all the time.

Well, let's talk about Draymond and Jimmy here because the two of them together working in concert to basically whip the team in order is something to behold from afar. Before Draymond, obviously, I think, clashed with the Young Guard because the two timelines thing just put them in such opposition to each other. But also the message seemed to like land to a certain extent, oddly enough with Jordan Poole more than anybody and then it didn't. but it seemed is there any different now with jimmy kind of backing draymond as like a hard liner like do you feel like the younger guys are receiving it better or does it actually create more tension because now there's two guys basically trying to do the same thing and force them into the way that they want to do it i think there is a going to be a better answer months from now as to just how well everybody responded to, again, that moment in Oklahoma City, the corresponding

moment in San Antonio. But what I would tell you right now, Justin, is I think everybody responded pretty well. Because I walked into that locker room in San Antonio the other night, the night after getting crushed, they got crushed by the thunder. And I thought, oh, God, here we go. There's going to be tension. There's going to be a lot of people saying, we're not saying a lot of different things. I walked into that room Wednesday, and it was very upbeat, and it was very positive. And you could tell early in that game, they couldn't hit a shot to save their life, but they were playing hard.

And everybody was coming together. So to the point about Jimmy being there and being kind of that other big brother protector for the group, I think that helps certainly to a point get the messaging across. but I think Draymond got the message that he wanted to and it got through, and it's very clear in the way they've responded. Now, will that continue? Will there be some other kind of blow up down the line? We'll see.

But what I would tell you again, I was juxtaposing Graham on and to a much lesser extent, Jimmy the other night saying what they said, and Jimmy and Dwayne Wade saying the younger guys have to play harder to the bulls of a you know, nine or ten years ago and all broke loose on that team. That was the three alphas team for those that don't remember. And I don't expect anybody to have that one jump out to your mind. But just for fun backstory, the next day after Jimmy and Wade said what they said, Rondo came out with this very long Instagram post, defending all the young players.

There would be practices later in the year where on one side of the floor, here's Jimmy and Wade. On the other side of the floor is Rondo and every single other guy. So it can split completely when you have people call out each other. I don't think it's going to split here with the Warriors, though, because there's so much respect for what has been built. And it goes back to what we were saying. I don't think anybody wants to disappoint Steph Curry.

And when you know that, and that is at the forefront of every decision that's going on, I think Draymond delivered what he felt was needed. It got through and they have responded well since then. Yeah, it's a little different when it's Steph than Rejan Rondo won. But it also feels like Steph agrees, but these guys are almost like his underbosses taking care of the dirty work so that he can just kind of go on and do what he does. What was odd about all of that was not only that Dremont continued to talk about it

on his podcast and whatnot, but it seemed like that wasn't a lot. on now. Everyone is a media mogul. He's going to say whatever the hell he wants. That's right. He's taking the threads these days. He's doing all of it. He's multi-platform, this guy now.

But what was odd about that was it didn't seem like Camingo was at the center of all of that. He kind of went out of his way to say it wasn't Camminga. And so I guess it's more of like, do you get the sense it was more like a Pajemski thing or anyone in particular? Or was it just more just like generally how they were playing? I think if you're leaning, in direction, Justin, is probably you're leaning more towards getting the messaging through to Pots.

But I don't think it was so much like anybody wasn't playing hard. I think it was more. Pods did several interviews leading into the season where he kind of said different stuff. And one of them, I know that they caught some attention was Pajinsky saying, And he wants to earn the trust of Stefan Dremont so that they can go down the line a few years from now to Joe Lakers owner and Mike Dunley, the GM, and say, hey, we want to leave the key, the keys to the car with pods. We believe that he's earned that right. I think this got lost a little bit in the shuffle of social media and the aggregation nature of it. I actually think Braymond respected the point he was trying to make in that I want to work hard enough and be good enough that I can maintain the standard that these guys have set.

But that kind of went crazy all over the place. And then, you know, I think Pod's saying that he can be the, if he had gone the baseball direction, he could be the white show hey in pitching and hitting. I think there were some more eye rolls. There was another press conference where, and again, this is where context kind of gets lost here sometimes, but pods gave an honest answer. And this is in front of all the reporters. And he said, you know, a lot of guys say they want to be as good as Steph Curry,

but they don't want to work as hard as Steph Curry. And actually, Justin, it's what we've been talking about all along in our conversation. And then one of the reporters said, do you want to be as good as Steph Curry? pod said, I want to be better than Steph Curry. In the moment, I understood what he was saying, that he wants to work and continue to grow and be better than Steph. But I think, again, in the context of social media, and when it gets popped out in the quotes, like, yeah, I want to be better than Steph, I think a lot more people were looking

around and going, oh, all right. So all of that is to say that, yeah, the young. guys. It's all kind of coded. I think that it's more keep the focus on the game. And whatever you have to do to help us win that night's game, that's

what you need to do. But there was so much context that I thought got lost in that conversation. But there's a reason Draymond said what he did. He was frustrated. The group wasn't playing well. And they responded. And again,

plenty of teams, they can just fold. and they would have kind of curled up and was like, well, it's a really bad week. I don't know if it's going to go well for this team. They didn't. And I think right now, as we get said for the next month or so, everybody's on the same page. And whatever tension had been there has come. I don't think it helps Bershmski in particular, but perhaps Kaming and all the young guys in total, to have Will Richard there because he's such a Steve Kerr guy.

he just does exactly what Steve would want from a role player that it almost is a good person to have in the rotation, but such a bad example to kind of juxtapose these guys against because they all want to play the role to get somewhere else where Richard just seems happy to be so streamlined there. He's now in the starting lineup. We'll see about the starting lineup. I'm a little not sold on it long term with Moody, Richard and the big three. He seems like more like he's trying to send a message about the style of play than anything else. But I also think it's tough when Kerr is like, he can't hide the fact that Pichemski just like gets under his skin so much. Like I often wonder sometimes when I'm watching this all play out like if there was the purge and if that was like a real thing if Kerr would would kill Bajenski.

You know, like would he take the opportunity to do that? He's just like just like it just not his type of guy. Well, what's interesting there is the player, I would tell you, who Kerr has gone out of his way to praise the most since the season started is Pajewski. So I think that there's something there that Kerr knows he needs to pump up the confidence of any younger player, but especially Paz, who really wants to be great, clearly, in what he says. And Justin, this guy is incredibly confident. He just hasn't started off the year the way that they would like. But I think he has shown that he can do different things to fill in the gaps that they need. To the point about Will Richard, I think you are spot on.

This is a guy at the end of the second round that I don't think a lot of people are expected much from. And early in camp, Kerr and those veterans are like, hey, this dude's pretty good. Now, every rookie hits a wall. it's going to depend on matchups and how things look, and I'm with you. Do I expect him to stay in the starting line up the rest of the year? I think that would be a tough sell right now. But he's really solid, and he knows how to play within the framework of what they need. A lot of young players struggle with that.

We go back to Kaminga. These guys really like Kaminga. But why has Kaminga struggled so much to find a role and get the rhythm that he needs? It's because for four years prior to this year, he just hasn't played in the warrior's style the way they want. He wants to play one way. They around Steph play a different way. I think early in the season, he was playing pretty well. That has slowed.

Now he's hurt. But Will Richard fits what they need. And that's something that for any player that comes in, if you can show that you can run the floor, that you defend well that you can make the extra pass. The small things lead to the bigger things, and the Warriors really, really love the way his game is coming together. Speaking of Kaminga, are you sold on the reborn Kaminga experience, or are we already starting to see signs that, you know,

he was already out of the starting lineup. He got hurt, and so that helps kind of perhaps push that to the side. I imagine when he comes back, I assume he'll be coming off the bend, but like do you think like the early start that he had where he looked so good playing in the flow we were at that portland game together just kind of marveling at how he was able to be himself in the midst of the warrior's context like do you think like he's turned the page or do you think he's starting to go back slide into the old commandant i think the answer is somewhere in between and what i would be very nervous about if i were the warriors is he looks so good early in the season And he was doing all those little things that we were just talking about. He's rebounding better. He is running the floor better. The defense was there.

He's mentioned several times in camp. He's passing a lot better. Justin, for two weeks he was really good. Then for like a week and a half, he wasn't very good at all. And he's missing shots. And you're going, uh-oh. So is he a future warrior for years to come? I just still don't believe so.

That would surprise. Do I think that they move him at the deadline? There was so much speculation about that. We'll see. But I don't believe that the new version that we saw can maintain itself for months and months. What I would tell you, though, is this is why it's going to be very interesting to see what they do here in the next couple months. If they are legitimately feeling that they have a chance, which they do, and people roll their eyes, when they hear that or, come on, come on, not really.

Steph's got to be incredible every time. I'm just telling you, this team legitimately believes they have a chance to win a title this year. They're going to need Kaminga or need somebody to do what he does. I mean, he's so athletic and he has all these different skills. It just hasn't come together the way everybody had hoped going into year five. So does that mean that you move him at the deadline and get some other pieces in? Does that mean that you ride it out and you say, hey, he can really help us.

Let's just see how that goes. That's why Mike Dunn leaving that front office, do the job that they do. But as I watch, if I were betting, which version do we see? I'm not buying that the version that we saw in the first couple weeks is the version that will maintain itself throughout the year. Yeah, there's such a push and pull too.

Because of those older guys, you've already seen them having to drop out at various times, and I assume that's going to continue throughout this evening. and Al Horford. Another one of those guys is just kind of compound that Melton, who knows, what we'll get from him. So you almost need the younger bodies to trudge you through the rest of the regular season. On the other hand, I agree with what you're saying. I do wonder at a certain point, especially considering the number that Kaminga's at, if it's just they're better off consolidating and just finding the best possible version. It seems like a more of a couple

months down the road sort of conversation at this point, because I imagine they'd want to stack as many ones as possible before they really ride the lightning and try to go with a shorter bench. But do you think that's like where we're headed ultimately or do you think there's a pathway where it's just like, Kaminga plays so well, they can't replace them with anybody or some of these young guys, they finally find them or just for the sheer fact that like you need minutes from like more than 10 guys at this point with considering the ages of these guys. I mean, the answer to your question there is if you're believing the warriors can do it or at least contend, this year, push into the Western Conference Finals, let's say.

Justin, you're believing that Moody and Pajemski and Kaminga can take a bigger step than what we've seen. I think Moody has shown that when he's hitting from the outside and his defense is there, he can really help them. Paz has struggled early, but the belief within is there's still another level he can hit. As always with the Warriors, it goes back to Kaminga. So if you were trying to figure out what may happen, I think in the best case scenario for this group, Kaminga comes back whenever he's feeling better. And I don't think this knee stuff is anything to really worry about, but they've held him out a few days and they want to be cautious early.

If you're believing the Warriors can do what they want to do this year, you're believing that Kaminga can really hit a different level of his own. I personally would be surprised if that happened, given what we've seen already this year, kind of the ups and downs. But if he does, then the conversation that you and I are having two or three months from now completely changes. Because you can only rely on Steph and Draymond and Jimmy for so long. And if you get them healthy to the playoffs, great. Then you have a legit chance to do anything. If one of those guys goes down for any long stretch, that's a big, uh-oh. They just don't have enough.

None of those other guys can do what they do. So, I think, Cominga is the key to all of it. I would just be really, really surprised if he can be for them what they need him to be. Because I think what we've seen is at 23, in his fifth year, he wants to be a very good, very respect. player, I don't know that what he wants and what they need fit each other at this time. Yeah, I would agree with that. I also think it ultimately might be a Jimmy conversation because that sort of raw visceral power that Kaminga brings, Jimmy has that in his own way

with being able to manufacture a free throws, which has become such a critical component to what these guys are doing in just such short order. I guess there is the muscle memory from Katie being able to get his and go kind of ISO and break from the beautiful ball movement that Jimmy kind of slides into that role and in just his own separate way. It seems like he's going along with the program. I mean, he's only missed the one game. So we'll see if like the injuries that he typically has dealt with over the Miami period of his career start to pop up again. And he's gone for weeks and months. And there's all that element to it. But it seems like he's bought in for at the very least. I mean, you've been around him probably more than anybody else. And so you could probably

probably get the sense of like when he's about to erupt and start to take this thing a different way. Like, do you think that's even within the realm of possibility or is he in such a good place right now? It's like that's not even part of the conversation. Justin, it's always in the realm of possibility because of the years that have gone on. It's always going to hover. And because it's happened at every place seemingly at some point. What I would tell you, having been around Jimmy for so long, I don't, I don't think it will happen here. That would surprise me.

Jimmy first and foremost got paid. There is a respect for Jimmy Butler in getting the contract that he wants. Miami did not want to give it to him. Okay, that was their decision. The Warriors gave him that two-year max extension that he was looking for. He comes into a structure. And I think this part is crucial. And it's very interesting as we go through all these different layers here.

Jimmy has never been on a team where he had a Stefan Dremont. He had built what he wanted. And then he's got all these younger players that want to be very good and want to put in the work. Funny of people wanted to work in Miami. But Jimmy didn't have a Steph and Dremont to kind of bounce things off of. There is a respect that he has for those two that I've never seen within the framework of a team that he's been on. Go back to the Bulls. He went from the 15th guy on the bench to wanting to be the star.

And Derek was still there. Derek Rose. And Joe Keene was kind of the emotional leader. And there was a buddy of a head between Joe and Jimmy that got cleared up over the years. But that's what that was. Minnesota with Towns and Wiggins, he wanted them to work. He wanted them to be there. He wanted them to put in more time, especially with Towns.

I don't trust that this guy is going to be a key piece to a title. team here. And then he goes to Philly. He was there a second. That didn't work. And then Miami, it really fit because the culture fit what he wanted with the working, but they didn't want to pay him. That next deal. And that's where everything kind of splintered away. So I think what people get lost in with Jimmy is what he was looking for was the respect that came with the money. He got it from the Warriors. And that's why I laughed when I was like, oh, Jimmy and Duraymond. Oh, There's a respect there. Jimmy knows what's going on here, and they let him do his own thing.

He can come and go as he wants, but they know when he's there, he's going to work. And he knows that they're going to work, and that is the tone that's set by Steph. So I would be very surprised, Mr. Berrier, if we talk down the line and there's some sort of explosion the way there has been and all these other stops, because the money given got the respect that was needed to make everything work. Once he got into the framework of this team, everybody went, okay, this is going to fit. Now, basketball-wise, as you said, Curtis said he's a stabilizer. He plays a different style, but he can get to the line. He fills in gaps that they need.

What I want to see is healthy Jimmy and healthy stuff in the playoffs, and how does that go? because that was not obviously the case at the end of the postseason last. Yeah, I mean, Steph and Draymond are always going to be just natural compliments. And over time, it seems like that effect is only compounded. But like, Drayman and Jimmy just feel like kindred spirits in a certain way. And you'd think, like, perhaps there's just too much of that machismo, frankly, that like, it might just spill over and just hurt everyone around him because Lord knows that Drayman's own just definitely. get some shrapnel on the people that he needs the most, frankly. But so far, it's just like, it just seems like it cancels each other out.

And it almost like it overlaps in like a pretty special but also like scary way, I would say. The deep cut reference, and maybe it's good for the ringer here, maybe some people understand where I'm going. But Mighty Ducks too, Mr. Verrier, you had Fulton Reed and you had Portman. and they were the Bash brothers and they were like, oh, yeah, we're going to mess everything up. And I feel like when I watch Jimmy and Dremont co-exist,

they kind of see each other for who they are. And they respect the hell out of the fact. I mean, Dremont was the second round pick. Jimmy was the first pick or the last pick of the first round, but nobody was expecting him ever, ever to be what he became. Nobody ever expected Dremont to be a Hall of Fame a guy who basically created his own position and carved it out of nothing, there is such a respect between those two dudes that I'm with you.

I mean, does the craziness cancel out? If there is some kind of big problem between those two, it would be the most shocking thing to me about all the different parts of the warriors that could combust at any moment. Those two respect the hell out of each other. and they both respect the hell out of Steph Kerr. So there's your flow chart right there. And I have always believed, as Jimmy has grown in his own success through the years,

he was best served in a 1A position. In other words, not the face of a team that was going to potentially win a title, although anybody who hears me, especially my old friends in Chicago, say, he got the heat there twice. Yeah, but he couldn't get them across. I have always thought, as he worked his way through and earned everything he got in his career, that he was kind of that secondary guy. They say Batman and Robin out here.

I think he's perfectly suited for where he is. But is he going to be able to raise the level of his own game when they're going to need it the most, not just in the regular season, but of course in the playoffs? Because, Justin, this is where it all goes. We can go through every different layer of the Warriors, and there are always going to be hundreds of them throughout the year. It is all dependent on our Steph, Jimmy, and Draymond healthy going into April. If they're not, none of it matters.

It does not matter because they're not good enough the way they're constructed. And they may not be good enough anyway. I mean, Oklahoma City is incredible. I don't think they're beating O.KC. I don't think they're beating Joker in Denver either. But if one of those three is not feeling very good going in the playoffs, they have no chance. So I, for one, I'm not going to overreact if they go into the tank a little bit again

or something starts to kind of feel like it's breaking apart because I want to see if those three can be healthy when the games matter. And if they can, it's going to be really fun to watch. Now I'm just thinking about who the Goldberg of this team is. Is it pods? Is it movie? Oh, my God. I wouldn't put that on pods.

I mean, Goldberg, man, I don't, I, this is, this is good. This is actually going to get a good conversation out. Like, if you lined up the Mighty Ducks, maybe the original Mighty Ducks, and then you go into D2, which I didn't think was as good, but there were some interesting characters. Who plays what role within? Because, like, you'd like to think that Steph is Charlie Conway, but Steph would spin circles around Charlie Conway.

Charlie had his moments, but I mean, Steph, is Steph plays the role of Charlie Conway, but Steph really is Adam Banks because he's this talented, gifted all everything player who can kind of do whatever he wants. And this is a good exercise here. Well, Kerr is definitely at Bombay type. Oh, yeah, yes. But more of like a beach town like version of it, maybe like the more woo-woo version of Bombay. But he's an interesting figure in all this too We should talk about him

Because as we're talking about other Bulls team I thought it was interesting You wrote about this Just that he's starting to evoke the Bulls The Pass in a way that he probably hasn't previously I mean the fact that he didn't sign an extension Over the off season is something of no I'm sure he can get one whenever he wants to at this point

But the fact that he didn't take it definitely I don't know At least from afar adds some stakes of like Could this just be his personal last dance if only like maybe the other guys go on and he's just had enough of this but like do you get a sense that that matters at all as they're trudging through the season i do not but i'm with you that it was at least noteworthy because doesn't if cur wanted the extension i mean get whatever he wants right now from the warriors i you know money what whatever that that relationship is so solid with laco and dun levy he wants to stay he'll stay as long as he wants to stay i'll stay as long as he wants i don't personally have always believed that Steve will stay as long as Steph is there. He knows what he represents Kerr to Steph, and Steph knows what Kerr represents to his own career.

So it would very much surprise me if Kerr exited before Steph left or was done just because of the respect between those two guys. Having said that, the more I've watched this year, and again, I can only speak for myself personally, the more I've always felt, and I know there's two years and everybody's lined up, I keep feeling like this is the last great chance that they have. And again, I'm sitting here telling you the second week of November, I don't think they're beating the thunder. And I think they really struggle against the Nuggets. but I don't see how a year from now everything gets that much better.

This is the team that they have. Maybe they can make a move with comminga. We'll see. And what happens after that? I'm not sure. When you listen to what's being said and you hear the Kerr invoke the Bulls references as Steph was talking about the other night, I just feel like this is that last great chance that they've got.

And that's why Horford is here. You know, Horford has to look very good early in the season, but Horford wasn't brought in for, you know, the regular season. Horford was brought in for those big matchups in the playoffs. So I think the comparisons are very interesting. Kerr lived it with Michael and Scotty and all those guys. He knows what it takes to play at the highest level. He respects the hell out of Steph and what Draymond have built.

And here's Jimmy, this fascinating character in all this, who really does want to win. a title and wants to kind of change the narrative that has circled his own career. So it is really, really an interesting team. But for me, I don't see how a year from now things look better than they do. To me, this is the last chance for them to potentially ride out in the sunset and find the magic one more time. I think you just give Steph a chance. I mean, we've been saying it for years as they were toiling through the two-timeline thing. At the very least, there seems to be a recognition

that, like, if you just give step as much as we possibly can at this point, he could do good things. And we saw this past weekend just like how spectacular, just the regular season, a Friday night, just in the NBA can be just when he has enough in order to go toe to toe with one of the better teams in the league. All right, let's wrap it there. Nick, thanks so much for joining us.

It is always good to be with you, buddy. And I would leave you with this because you've listened to me bitch and moan about the regular season for two and a half years in my little hiatus. To see Steph play at the level that he was at in San Antonio in those two nights, but especially even Friday, Friday 49 points in some game, you know, the second week in November. It is a reminder of just how much importance he has to the league. he has built this huge brand and he's been this figurehead with LeBron for so long. But to sit there and see in the arena in San Antonio just how much he still means to the day-to-day operations of the NBA, anybody who gets a chance to go see that dude should take it. If you're a basketball fan, it is a different experience watching him compared to watching anybody else in the game right now.

Yeah, we were in Portland together and you go up to the seats like 40 minutes earlier. And I'm like, what are you doing? And you're like, you can't take advantage of a Steph game. You got to go watch a warm up and all this other stuff. It's special. Just being like in his presence at this point. It really does feel like one of the few things in sports that's really appointment of you. And you can't miss any sort of big matchup.

So I agree. It is, but it really is. I appreciate you having me. And it's good to see you. All right. It's Nick Fidel, read him on the athletic. one of the best guys doing this right now. I'll see you in Arena, hopefully, soon.

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Call 1-800-Gustustle.com. Call 1-888-889-777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. All right. now joining me j kyle man uh we're going to talk some draft stuff give kyle a little room to to isolate here a little meet and greet and some of the best prospects yep you're used to it uh but first we got to talk about the houston rockets who are rolling uh and thankfully they they won the game that we were kind of hoping to t us up here it was a bit of a mud pit they had to go into o t to do it but unlike the spurs a couple weeks ago where uh they fell flat in their face against the suns we get a

big win to talk about one of the most exciting teams in the league. Isn't that nice? It is. Yeah, I spent a lot of time the past couple days, like really digging into what makes the Rockets interesting. And as I, you know, thinking ahead that maybe we talk about them and I was joking with Justin that, you know, I don't gamble. I'm not a gambler. But I was like, it is a funny thing about whenever you plan to talk about something, you do gamble because if they come out and shit the bed like the Spurs did for you guys, you know, a week or so again. go. But it's the NBA, man. There's guys in and out of the lineup. You never knew. Orlando's got some odd stuff going on with they kind of looked fluid weirdly without Palo and Suggs.

So I know we talked about them in depth, but man, yeah, that was a heck of a game. There were a lot of different storylines. Yeah, it's more of just like the momentum you go into the conversation because the Rockets have enough of body of work at this point. This was just, they're on a terror. Nine of their last 10. They won practically won every game since we last talked about them. open the season and Reed Shepard in particular has been on absolute fire. And so I know that's your guy we want to talk about them. But just in totality, what have you thought about the Rockets? Just because the West is kind of formulating as we're going along here. We're going to probably talk, I think, big picture about some of the contenders. We're due to talk about the nuggets,

the Thunder, probably the piston, some of the really good teams that are revealing themselves as we're going along. But Rockets are kind of a curio. I'm starting to see the vision here. I think the marquee here for this team is that this is a 90s basketball team that has just been claw machine to 2025. Because the reason that this, there's obviously the rebounding and the punch you in the mouth. Down the stretch, man, I mean, Isaiah, we were joking about it before the show. I mean, Shingoon, I have a couple thoughts about Shinggoon. I have many thoughts about Shingun.

Shingun and Adams, they just have tractor beam hands. If the ball is around the basket, it's just like, how did he grab that again? I don't know what their hand measurements are, if it's hand strength. I don't know if they did the thing

that they give guitarists, you know, where you're like supposed to, you know what I'm talking about it? The Calus is going. Yeah, yeah. I never did that one. But,

uh, but, but yeah, Shingoon, also I wanted to add, I wrote down in my notes and underlined it Shin goose, uh,

because he kind of runs like a goose. Okay. It's an interesting place to start. I thought that we should get that in there. No, my point when I say there in 90s thing is obviously the rebounding and everything like that, but the way they are approaching generating offense is kind of amusing because before the season, we kept talking about the way that this team was going to play as if they were going to be forced into this just disadvantaged approach.

We were like, oh, God, man, they got to follow this template that team. games play. I don't know why this hypothetical person that talks about the NBA as a country, a rural person, but they are in this scenario. So we were just like, well, who's going to fill the, you know, Ivan wrote something about it. I was like, who's going to fill the pick and roll? You got to fill the pick and roll. You got to play pick and roll. What are you doing if you're not playing pick and roll? And the Rockets were just like, no, man, we got a couple single coverage monsters on this team. I wrote this down, JV. This third few is pick and rolls per game at 13.7. point seven they are the second most in the league at iso possessions um they are not getting many screen

assists at all uh so basically what they're doing is they're just saying we got two dudes who can go get it at any time we're not going to involve ball screens we're not going to let you get us it and we're not going to worry about the switch thing we're going to go try to attack it and whenever you come to help we're going to create out open shots and they've made a lot of hay with that surprisingly they're absolutely mashing on the boards right now uh they have coming into tonight's game 41.2 offensive rebound percentage, which I don't remember ever seeing 40%. I can't imagine that's going to stay the entire length of the season, but good God, both of those guys are just enormous. And it's not just the hands. They're just, they're made of like steel. Like Adams in particular,

we know, but Schengun is just like a whole like bottom half, you know? And so it's just like, I guess if it works, but I think the thing that's been most encouraging is they've almost been able to blend that into whatever else they have going on here, where they're shooting the lights out right now. I can't imagine that's going to stay the entire season. Virtually everybody is just drilling it, including Shen Gung, including Josh Akogi, who all of a sudden is in the starting lineup. So that's probably going to fall off there, but the way that they're just incorporating what Reed does without breaking who they are, the way that they're just kind of able to turn to Kevin Durant in these big stakes moments like we saw tonight, it just feels

like maybe it's just the sheer fact of having an identity and being able to layer on top of that. but they've been able to kind of shape shift depending on what they need. And that's why right now they're number one with a bullet offensive. Yeah, I was going to say a big part of this too is that I thought of this in the moment and wanted to look it up. I was like I would almost bet my life that now they're kind of doing a thing that's similar to Miami and that they're taking the ball screen thing out of it, except it's different. Miami's hitting you with these almost like pitch and go dribble drive type things to like

attack advantages. Like they'll just attack and rotate and attack and rotate. Miami's like, no, we're going to just bludgeon you, bludgeon, bludgeon, and then get the offense of rebound. Like, they're kind of piecing it together in an interesting way where you're talking about them shooting the ball really well. They're really not taking, it's the types of shots that they're generating. It's a lot of one, two, catch and shoot type of stuff.

Yeah, they're 29th in the league right now in dribble pull-up threes. So they're not taking a ton of those. So it's an interesting way that they're piecing it. Yeah, because, you know, their transition efficiency that they're, They're giving up is kind of high, but they're just kind of like, we're going to get it back in the, in the, in the, in the, in the totality with all the offensive rebounds that we're going to get. Yeah, it's like every single person has a set way of playing, but it's all kind of working right now. So like, they'll go often to shangoon on these post-ups. And like tonight, they weren't working all that well. And I have to imagine being a Rockets fan living and dying with every Schengun post-up is probably pretty nails on a chalkboard.

Because sometimes if he's not hitting those possessions, just feel like wait. even though he's so good just working off of everybody. But then it's just like Katie still gets his mid-range shots to go. A men is still playing off the cut and he's working more ISO into that whole thing. He wasn't good tonight. But I don't know. It just feels like everything is clicking right now. And we should talk about the fact that Reed, on top of all of this,

feels like he's slowly starting to figure this out. He's shooting the absolute lights out. And that's a big part of it. You saw on tonight when they ran that play for Shane. Goon in order to send it into overtime. He was spacing basically to have court, and Bain had to follow him because that's how good of a shooter he is. But there's just a level of confidence with him right now, and you're seeing it kind of

filter into how he's playing where he's pulling up from deep. And he's also pulling up regularly, which I think was a concern I had going with him just because this team, I think Odoca is prone to pull guys a little quicker than some other coaches, especially if you're not bringing a defense event. It seems like they're playing through him and letting him be read. And it's been great to see because he has such like the, maybe like a Steph Curry type of like positivity that I think filters down to everybody else. It feels like the guys love when Reed is going off.

Oh, yeah, that organization adores him. I mean, every indication I've gotten is that the players love him, the staff loves him, the front office loves him. He's just a, he's just kind of a smiley, happy go like he kind of character in general. Like, you know, low maintenance personality from everything I've ever heard about him. But I think for him to stay on the floor, you did see. I will add, I mean, I think there was some sort of playoff visions of what could happen where Orlando was big enough to sort of challenge. Granted, Shingun was missing some shots. He started to make him down the stretch. We were talking about him like bullying and just bludgeting with the ISO post thing.

And Orlando was like, we're going to single cover this. And it worked for a lot of the game. And then, but I think another thing that you saw was Franz, I wrote down on like, it was like five or six possessions in a row, which just like, give me. be the short guy and he just went after Reed over and over and over and over. And you saw Houston go to this like two one two zone kind of look. So they're trying to protect him. I think it's a balancing act basically for him right now because, you know, Reed, I don't think it's the type of ball handler. He's just not, he's not a surgeon who can sit out there and pound it and take pressure. He's going to like get on the ball, get off the ball. It's a lot of using him. And I actually, sometimes if I'm if I'm really, really trying to pay attention, close attention to a team. I'll start diagramming things in my little notebook here.

But I'm not going to act like I'm that level of tactician. I'm not. Patreon maybe? I have a lot of panels here where that was a really, that was a poppy piece. I have a lot of panels here where I read is just like in the corner of the diagram basically over and over again where if he's making those shots, you basically have the luxury of playing four on four because he's just, you know, and he can make those shots. But it's funny you see how confident he is.

I mean, just the little smile he had after, after he hit that shot on Bain. Granted Bain, Bain came back and just like clubbed him in the head. What's going on with Bain? Bain is really going for like villain of the year at this point. Maybe, maybe like Dylan Brooks wasn't the real guy there in Memphis.

Maybe Bain had a little bit to do with it because he's really become a guy who's like ready to get in the mix all the time. And you saw, what Reed did trip him, we should mention. And so it wasn't like it was completely unprovoked. But yeah, he did hit him in the head. I mean, clubbed him. It was, you could tell he was just like, I don't know, maybe he's like, I'm sick of this little squirt. I don't know what that was about.

No, I mean, you can see how the size disadvantage is going to come to bear. And I'm wondering in higher stakes games, and this was perhaps a microcosm of that, we're going to see teams try to take advantage of it. I mean, that's just plain as day. He doesn't have the sides to do it. Any team in a playoff series. he's going to pick on him. So we'll see.

But on the other side, it almost feels like the overall size advantage the Rockets have, provides him at the very least to at least go against players who are more like size. Like you have to put all of your size on all the other players in the Rockets because they're just enormous. And so Reed is left often going up against like the Cole Anthony's of the world, the Ryan Rollins. If you look up all of his matchup defenders, it really is like the smaller guys.

And so it's one way, the rockets can feed him. And so he could bring out the best in that. Another big factor, too, is like a lot of his success is coming from afar. I do wonder, and I'm curious what you think of his ability inside the arc, because he only has nine total free throws on the season. He had two tonight, hit seven coming into the game. So I think that's going to be a big factor in terms of just his overall effect.

So it's like, it's very encouraging where we are right now. But clearly there's like still room to explore the depth to make sure that like he can lock down that fit spot in high-level situations. Yeah, like I said, it's going to be tricky, and there may be games when they get into the playoffs where we see very little of him. I mean, I think it's going to be that. I don't know that we're going to graduate to the point. I don't know if I was joking with Bill about whether or not he can lose the rich kid read label. Time will tell. I don't know the optics, but he's really, he is an interesting thing where, and I talked about this a lot going up to the draft and saw a lot

at Kentucky where he doesn't like shake and bake and get wide with his dribble and people. He just kind of like up fix with his head and shoulders and uses that to kind of get into the midrange. And then he surprises you with that with that little elbow jumper that he shoots because he can really elevate. Yeah, he's just kind of a positive ad. I mean, against that Portland, that Portland game was really interesting. And I'm sure you were watching that one where his minutes were the minutes where they separated, where they had those KD, KD, Reed, Tari didn't play tonight. who knows how much of the difference that would have made against Orlando.

But yeah, they've had some kind of interesting lineups that they thrown against some of these bigger teams and he's been a part of those. Yeah, I think it's especially to have, it's nice to have like his buoyancy because Tari is typically the one, just because he's such a maniac. I think that energy starts to filter down to everybody else.

He's going to be out four to six weeks now because he has this oblique strain. And I think this is kind of where we find out the depths of like what the rockets can do because I think when at full strength, we haven't even seen them at full strength because we haven't got even Dorian Finney Smith out there for them to start the season.

I think like they're going to have to plug some holes. They basically played seven guys tonight and it's only going to get tougher. I think the big question for me is how long can Josh Akogi keep like nailing down this starting spot? It's so funny because we talked about so many options about how they fill the Fred role and ultimately the fifth starter ended up being Josh

Ashoky, this journeyman 3&D guy. And so on the one hand, I get it because Adoka is going to lean anywhere. He's going to lean toward the defense. And Adoka has just been lights out shooting it. I can't imagine that's going to stick the entire way. And so I do think there's going to come a point where Reed is just such a, such a, like a spur to everything that they're doing. I do wonder if they have to turn to him in the starting lineup? Or do you think, like, he's such a, the defense is such a problem that, like, he's better off playing,

second units, being able to take advantage of second units, and maybe steadily growing to that, maybe long term. It's tough because I don't know if you're going to have the luxury of fully leaning all the way on him as like a full starter minutes kind of a thing. I could see him playing like with maybe it's not a full wholesale substitution kind of thing where he's playing with like a couple of the starters, which I think is what we saw against Portland. So I don't, it's, it's going to be tough because if they do lean on him all the time, yeah, it's going to be a coming thing where he's just getting picked on constantly.

And yeah, are you one of these people that says strength? I really kind of flagged on that. Are you one of these people that leaves the G out of strength? My New England shows up in various ways. Like I'll say leg instead of leg. Oh, boy. But I mean, I grew up in Connecticut. We didn't really have like a thick accent.

But there's certain words sometimes. Like you put the chowder in front of me and like it just comes right out. is one of them. That's a, that's a Connecticut thing. Okay. Or it's just me not being able to enunciate. I don't know. I mean, I'm one to talk. I told Megan yesterday over dinner, I was like, I'm so rural that I genuinely forget which it is was or were at times. Like, I'll be like, man, we don't. I just don't. It's not a lot, but sometimes. Anyway, I just, I heard strength and I had, I had to say something. I'm sorry. I will say the rockets are looking mighty strong. But like I said, it feels like.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. This next stretch, I think, is going to be able to. So the third in the West right now, OKC is absolutely just like boat racing. Everyone they face, except for Portland. And we talked about that Portland game a couple of weeks ago. They were fucking around with the rotations.

They barely had anybody. They probably could have won that game if they didn't play Brandon Carlson so many goddamn minutes. So they could easily be 14 to know right now. But Denver looking equally mighty, rockets are right there, man. They just need to be able to trudge through this next stretch. I don't know what Dorian Finney Smith's status is, but I'll say this. I think there was some consternation when Fred went down about whether or not they could like hang with these sorts of teeth.

This was going to be more of a bridge season, but they haven't missed the beat. I think it's probably a big question now of how much you change things on the fly in terms of like making a big trade. But as is, I think they're just going to rattle off regular season wins. I don't know that I would at this point. I mean, if you could reasonably not take a bite out of your identity and get like a player that you think could immediately add to what you do. Because like we said, it's not super dynamic. A lot of it, a lot of it depends on Shingoon.

If Shingun has a crappy night or if he's playing a team that can single cover him pretty well. KD, they do a little bit more with him. They'll do these kind of double wide pin downs to get him with some momentum and get him. But, God, KD tonight, I was like, how old is he? Like, he just looked, I was worried about them stressing him at times, and he just carried them. I mean, early in the first, he had like a chase down block. He was getting to his spots whenever he wanted. Granted, I felt like he let Shengun carry it a little bit more.

But you mentioned OKC. I mean, that matchup in particular for Reed is really, really tough. Yeah. I think the question is really, how much does Katie put them on the clock this season? do they say actually our future is our future right katy is just some guy we're going to have in this interim and we'll make the most out of our window with him but we won't completely give ourselves over to his timeline i think i think that's a pretty reasonable outlook on the other hand as we've seen time and time again like windows are what they are and they can't be fleeting

and i do wonder if you look down the road if we're already talking about like hey reed's been great but like playoffs i don't know i think you have to at least have the discussion internally jibari smith someone also the flag here he feels like so important to stitching together lineups because he is so big i've also loved like his willingness to go after block shots has gotten like jammed on the past two nights uh including shadd and sharp just like completely posterizing him but that guy is always getting into it and and i appreciate that sort of attitude especially with younger guys who perhaps are trying to protect their image. He's so important to what they do structurally.

But at times, I'm also like, when is the plus player that, like, you know, was picked what it was, the second or third in the draft a couple years ago. He's someone to flag two because that's the other part of it. It doesn't have to be read that they trade. It doesn't have to be Tarisi and that they trade. There's just so many guys in top of guys that they have for you. They have options. I think they'd be crazy to trade Jabbar just because I think he's sort of a key to their

lineup flexibility, like just having a four out there. who can catch it high. He doesn't need much time. He's a good team defender. Granted, he's not going to do a whole lot. I don't know we were joking about him doing the like Derek White to Jabari to Tray to Palo sort of analog thing. I mean, that was a fun one. But I just think it's so important if you have a guy like that who's a good team defender who can do that.

And he's not, granted, I mean, he's not going to give you much creation at all. But I'm with you. I like guys that, I like guys that put it on the line. and we'll try to block a shot because it's just kind of like whatever it's two points you know it's two points just go out there and uh any anybody who's willing to put it on the line and put in and put themselves in harm's way i'm a fan of that 90s smash mouth mentality baby yeah for sure all right why don't we slip now to the 2026 NBA draft you are our resident draft expert you're watching these things somehow watching both NBA basketball and all the requisite college basketball in order to

opinions on these. I'm very much a casual, I would say. I'm just someone who's like keeping an eye on these sorts of things in order to be able to basically have a segment with you on this. So we've already seems like though the 2026 draft class has already kind of taken hold of the zeitgeist. I'm curious what you think because the general perception is that this class is just going to be an all timer. We kind of hear this a lot about draft class around this time, but do you think that this one is particularly good, especially in comparison to even last year, which it seemed like had a lot to it? I do. I do. There's a lot of talent. I mean, there's sort of a hard three at the top, and it's going to be interesting to see if anybody can, there was a whole lot. I mean,

there was a lot of discussion this past weekend about whether or not Cooper would have been in that group. That was a fun one. I felt compelled to chime in on. I just think he would. And it's funny that like I can't imagine this class if he were in it like we'd be talking about at the top it's the failure rate the failure likelihood among these top three I think is is pretty low like I really I don't see them busting I it's just kind of a how high do you think it's going to fly and and I think the discussion over the course it's always this way when you talk about the three I think it traces like philosophy when you're trying to figure out if if these are the decided top three and they could go in any order I think it's just a way.

going to reveal people's philosophy in a way that I think was similar to the Palo Chet Jabari draft, where there were people who were kind of talking about like, I value this over this, and people landed in different places. I landed with Chet won, as I've said a bunch of times. But yeah, this class, as it stands right now, I'm still leaning Peterson one. I had a moment this summer where I was like, man, I just, I love a lot about Camboozer, and we can get to these guys DeBonsa played last night against your Yukon Huff. Huskies. But I think probably the smart way to go about this is not to just storm in and just assume that people know who they are. I think we should just kind of start from who they are.

And I guess let's just work through it that way. Absolutely. So the top three you're referring to Darren Peterson of Kansas, AJ DeBons of BYU and Camboozer of Duke. Let's start with Darren Peterson. I was watching a little bit of him in a game against a guy we're going to talk about a little bit later with Caleb Wilson and UNC. They ended up losing that game. But I got to say, I didn't know a lot about Peterson. DeBanza has just been much more of a public figure over the past few years, probably because of all the stories about him going to BYU and almost preceding that by going to prep school in Utah,

probably because I talked to you so much as well. And you've been talking about A.J. DeBanza for a little while there. But Peterson has been almost like kind of in the background, at least like in terms of like I didn't even really have a clear vision of him. And so I was struck by immediately when I was watching that game, just how sophisticated. he was like it looked like he could run an NBA offense like tomorrow yeah i mean Darren peterson for people who don't know uh let's just talk about the body first right that's a

creepy thing to say six foot four without shoes she would say it like that you do yeah saxophone under that guys um no i mean you catch yourself talking about you hear people talk about players it's just like jesus that's weird um yeah uh 6 4 without shoes so good size for a lead guard uh six nine and three quarters wingspan eight and a half by nine and a quarter in his hand so that if you'd see the kid i mean he's just built like he's jacked he's he looks like uh gives you sort of visions of uh of like an anne edwards like um russ type body type like just very very built in the shoulders uh he's he's twitchy i don't know how much of that you notice with the ball like for for me i haven't landed on a comparison for him so much yet but

He plays in this sort of upright way and his light on his feet kind of plays on his tiptoes. But when he is like jabs towards the rim with a lot of that's kind of get to his dribble pull up stuff. He's kind of in this realm between like a Dame Lillard, Donovan Mitchell type guy. Like he likes to get through his dribble pull up and he's just so quick with it. I don't know what, I mean, what else stood out to you? And what sophistication specifically stood out to you? It's funny you mentioned Dame because you're right. Dame came to mind.

Something about maybe just the confidence and the ease with which he like moves through complicated sort of situations. But it's not 100% correct. But the thing that really jumped out was two things. One was just the general sense in awareness while he's snaking in the pick and roll. There's just like this air of confidence you can see from guys who really know how to work it where they're feeling content. contact and then even when the space is confined, it doesn't feel like they're rushed.

And at least in that game, this is only a one game sample for me. It just felt like he kind of understood that. But then when he's off the ball, like it seemed like he could equally navigate those spaces where he's constantly moving. And so he just feels like a modern like engine of an offense potentially where you could play him on off. He could be your guy driving the pick and roll like big like big time offense. Or you could play him off a superstar.

And that versatility as we've seen is just like, So it was crucial, especially for some of these teams that are picking at the top of the draft, because you might end up with two of these type of gods. Yeah, I don't want to get ahead of myself in what I think about these guys too much, but I would be pretty surprised if this guy is not a hub of an NBA offense. He could play next to a superstar. Like, he's capable of being a catch-and-two guy. He can come off a pin down, shoots it with movement.

Granted, the shooting thing, you know, this past year he played for a school called Prolific, which AJ, this is a school there are a lot of guys kind of come through. AJ played two years. That's the school that AJ moved from Brockton, Massachusetts, across the globe, to Napa to play for it. So they get a lot of guys like that. And they have a lot of guys right now. Actually, they moved to Florida. Anyway, I digress.

But he, the shooting was kind of a question for him, and it's really come around. But the thing for me now that I'm going to be watching over the course of the year is he has that when he gets to the rim, he can finish through contact, dunk on people. He's very physical. Like you said, he's got deliberate in the lane. right now he's he's he's hunting the shot more granted he's hitting a lot of them i want to see him get to the rim a little bit more and show some of the playmaking stuff um because uh i think he's i think he's capable of it but you were talking about a j i mean i went the the fun thing about this group of guys is that they played each other repeatedly so they don't you know they don't duck they're very

competitive um i drove three or four hours to watch a j and derren play last fall against each other and they're like guarding each other. They're really competitive. So I think that's another positive too at the top of this class is you're getting a bunch of MFers like in a Cooper where there would be even more. But it's it's a really competitive group in that way. Yeah, it's funny you mention that because Peterson, as far as I know is like almost the same age as Cooper, which like to your earlier point about where would Cooper fall on this? Like that's something to keep in mind that he's basically of this age range. And so yeah, I definitely think he would have been high amongst these guys as well based on my limited knowledge.

Is Kansas just like, is the rest of the team just not as good as some of these other ones? Because there was one point where, like, he was basically telling everybody off the ball where to go. And on the one hand, it's great to see that he has that sort of like knowledge in order to do. So on the other hand, like, they kind of got run off the floor in UNC. We should mention it was like, it was in Chapel Hill. That's a really tough environment to play like game number two. But at the same time, I was like, huh, doesn't seem like the rest of his team is around the same level as him. this team this kansas team is going to go as far as peterson carries them uh right you you're you're

astute uh i mean north kitalina's a little bit older across the board like they're a little better than i thought they were going to be but uh peterson after he checks out of the game the on-off numbers are going to be pretty funny to watch because they need him on the floor and right right now he's nursing an injury too so that's a big problem for them they do have another guy name if people want to look uh check this name out bryson tiller yeah not that guy but uh he's a big played for overtime elite I think last year but he's a really interesting player if people want to go on a YouTube dive so Peterson out for a bit with the hamstring issue but you would say right now as it stands looking on track to be the number one guy yes but it is close and we can talk about these

other guys and why is that why that is okay want to talk about de bonson next yeah yeah um so he's he's played a little cat and mouse with with the way his name name is pronounced. We'll just say that out front. What is it? Well, no, somebody, Tate and I were joking about this, that at McDonald's All America, they, he, the, DeBanza told him it's DeBanza. And then on BYU's website, I don't know if they're just messing with people or they're just deciding because you got to make this decision for the rest of your career, whatever

it is. On BYU's website, they have little clips that you can click where it's in their voice. They pronounce their names and he says DeBanza. So anyway, DeBanza is, let me just We'll rattle off the measurements here. De Monta's 6.9 inch U, 611 wing span, 9 and a half, 9.5 inch hands. So, yeah, this past year, he was at Utah Prep for his senior year. He's at BYU now. The comps for him, it's a little tricky because people have brought up guys like Paul George, Tracy McGrady, bigger ball handlers who can really score.

I think that both of those guys have a little bit more of a, facilitator Gene had it a little earlier than he did. But AJ is like exploring that. AJ's a big time like he leans scoring more in my opinion. He's a tough shot maker. There's a lot of debate about like what kind of an athlete he is. That's something that we're hearing a little bit more. Like he's he's not as twitchy as Peterson like not even close. But he has kind of a slinky odd pace way that he moves because if you ask him who he plays like he said that he plays like T-Mack and Shea, a blend of those two players. Huh.

Okay. Well, it was an interesting comparison to him and Peterson because, again, I'm just watching the one game and I watched the Yukon game most recently over this weekend. And it seemed like Peterson, he was the sophisticated one, DeBonza, just seemed pretty chaotic. Just seemed like a lot of what he was doing was just like pure skill, like pure athleticism, just natural talent. And it lacks some of the refinement. that Peterson had there. That's one thing honestly, I'm curious just overall

in watching these prospects and something that I'm confused as an NBA watcher, like how much to really put an emphasis on sophistication versus someone like the Bonsu's 18 just like in his first college sort of action,

feeling things out. But like he had the rough start to the game, first half, barely scored and then kind of shot out of a cannon in the second half, 21 of his 25 in that game. A lot of those shots though

were like just tough shot making rather than the process in order to get clean looks. And so I don't know. I was left a little cold just watching him, but obviously it was a one game early in his career. I'd parse it this way where you're talking about sophistication in terms of processing the game and playing in that facilitator role. I think Darren's a little ahead of him. I think Camboozer is actually a better passer than him also, but I think we can get to some of the other guys another time. But DeBontza, I think he does have a lot of sophistication and polish in the way that he goes, pursues his own.

I just think that the question for him over the course of this year that I think could possibly cause him to unseat Darren, if you assume Darren is in the top spot, is his ability to, in that first half, he has a lot of those tools to get to his own offense. He's been able to do that his whole life. What I've kind of observed him do, and I made a video if people want to go check it out, just to check in on where he was last fall, he can get into these degree of difficulty tea. Like I can, I can churn milk into butter in any situation kind of things, thinking that he's a teamacker, and he's a very talented score. But Yukon last night was luring him into that.

And I think that that's something for it. He was just kind of like wanted to, you know, you want to write. He was in his hometown, wanted to have a big showing, wanted to go off. And you saw him kind of, BYU season, I think, is going to be really, in his case for the number one pick are going to be driven by him fully embracing his superpower because you know we're talking about Houston using their isolation talent to sort of create you know it's not just about what you create for yourself obviously it's like how can you get he's going to be able to create a lot of open shots for bYU if he doesn't dribble three or four times of possession if he gets off of it and that's something that i'm really going to be keeping an eye on because when he's when he embraced that in the second half

he started to play a lot better yeah there was one play in particular where it was on the fast break and he he got right up to the rim practically and the defense collapsed and he found an open shooter and I was like oh where's more of that and so as an NBA kind of watcher of these guys maybe it's just more about his teammates and that but I almost wonder like is do you want to see guys being able to make tough shots because that's an elite trait or is that just a bad habit because if they're taking tough shots and not looking for the better shot are you looking more for the impulse? I mean, if you're seeing

we saw this with Ace Bailey last year, you definitely want to, if you're seeing a guy whose diet is very difficult all the time, you're like, okay, well, then maybe you start to wonder about their process. I don't worry so much about AJ's process

because, like, he had a play where he got walled up. I forget he was even guarding him, but he reversed pivoted back to his left hand. Like, he has a lot of stuff like that. I think it was caravan. Yeah,

he was at a standstill, like spun off it and then like step through. And I was like, how? Like, how did this human do that? Um, so yeah, he's clearly an athlete. Um, he definitely has something, but going against Yukon, you know, tough stuff. They have a lot of defenders and like, and they are drilled. They are, they are structured in a way that's going to cause someone to, to struggle in this sort of situation. Hurley was cracking me up, man, like, uh, the cameras caught him over and over again, because Hurley was just every single time AJ had the ball. He's just doing the, like,

just trying to get to travel. And at one point, they do, they do the cutaway to him. And he, they caught him clearly yelling, he's not in the league yet. Like, basically. He's insane. She, like, literally has problems. I, yes, he seems aware of them, though. I mean, he seems like he's part of the battle.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I've heard him talk earnestly. I'm like, yeah, he seems like he knows who he is. Yeah, as long as you work on yourself, right? Right. Right. No, the other thing about AJ that really I've enjoyed, and it's something about this class in general is they're two-way players. Like, there's no one really in this group that is like you're not going to have Reed situation.

Granted, Reed's interested in defense. He's just at a huge disadvantage with his body. I'm just saying these aren't guys that you're going to have to motivate because when I really kind of, when I really, really got into AJ and was like he won me over for real. because I saw him play. I saw him play at a game when he was a sophomore just down the street from us, from where I live, which was an unusual setting to see like NBA talent of that caliber. Because we're Hicks. We don't really brush our teeth or wear his shoes.

And he was just taking a lot of tough shots. And I was, I was like, okay, I kind of see the vision. And then I saw him again a year later. And they were in this just meaningless game in something called the grind session, which is, you're, that's safe to Google. It's basketball. he's just guarding the ball like an absolutely maniac like he's somebody that really really likes to play defense you're not going to have to convince him to do that so that's that's something that i really like about a j also so caught a j when they were in portland for the hoop summit you were there as well and cam booser was probably the other standout from that event

uh you made the comp i believe to me first of of of of Kevin love and just from a body type this guy looks like he's a brick house and so i definitely see it uh I don't remember Kevin Love when he was in college running pick and rolls and then like coming off of screens and like catching corner threes. And so perhaps this is just like the modern game, but being able to see a guy like that do this stuff, it kind of blew my wig back. Perhaps this is the modern game, Justin. Perhaps it is. Yeah, I mean, Kevin Love obviously always could kind of do those things. I mean, if you think back, I don't know, think back about like 2014 Kevin Love, the things he was starting to do. Yeah, I mean, Kevin Love.

Yes. If you think about who he was when he was playing for like, 08, UCLA, he was a little beefier. Granted, Cam is a lot better athlete. But I think the thing for me is fledgling shooter, very smart passer, great outlet passer. And then just the technique is something I've yammered on in my draft kind of social videos on and on about is that I would just say he shovels dirt on people because, you know, Kevin's dad stand very, you, you just see the these kids just kind of get this education early and whenever they go up against kids who have not had the same education in terms of technique and things like that cam just destroys them but the thing is he gets to the lane he's just very has a great pet presence around uh around the rim

uh just every every technical footwork move in the book soft touch great rebounder um but but to me the thing that is most exciting is that just that i think I think we do you want to talk about like some matchmaking about who they just kind of project to fit with? Yeah, because like, well, I think DeBanza versus Cam is interesting. It seems like that's kind of a debate forming if you assume that Peterson is number one. And it seems like it's almost a difference of DeBonza just seems like kind of a freak athlete versus Cam is probably a little bit more technique driven, as you were saying. But maybe the athleticism isn't at the same elite level. Yeah, DeBond's.

Is that feel fair? Yeah, DeBonse is interesting too because, um, When I was watching him, I guess it was in their game against Villanova, if people want to go check that out. When he was in the lane, he was decelerating and changing direction in this really funky way, which is where I started to think more about the Shea thing. Like, I think if he, if he can, he is vertically explosive. Like, he can get up and posterize somebody. He can dunk on somebody. He can go through people, get around them.

But I think he's not a like zero to 60 sprinter type athlete. He's not going to just like dust people with just brutal absolute speed. He's somebody that I think if he embraces that technique and takes that technique that we were talking about and just kind of leans into that and expands upon it and slows down, punishes people. I think he could become more of a monster. But it's like for them, like for a match, if I were playing matchmaker for A.J. Dubanza. It's interesting because Boozer, we'll start with Boozer. Boozer is more of a universal donor for me just because he doesn't necessarily need the ball to affect offense. But if you're looking at the bottom four right now, we'll just go by that. Indiana, or who has the best odds? Granted, we saw Dallas kind of took a big shit on that last year. So it doesn't really mean anything. But Indiana number one, Washington, two, Brooklyn three, New Orleans four. New Orleans four, that's going to Atlanta. And then Sacramento was five. But I think if Indiana found a way, to get a hold of Kim Boozer, that would be hysterical.

I mean, yeah, it seems like they're going to do it too, because this season is basically punted at this point. They were getting into the injury exceptions in order to sign 10-day guys quicker than I think I've ever seen in my entire life. Yeah, and you think about the way that they like to play, you could just throw Boozer in there, and he's not going to, I don't think they're going to miss a beat.

Like imagining Halliburton and Boozer together, gives me basketball hot flashes. I don't know. What's the word? It gives me, it makes me really happy. I didn't want to say boner. You know, I didn't want to say it was like ED medicine for basketball, but it makes me, it makes me really excited. It makes my desk.

My desk just went up a little. No, it's, it's, no, I just think it would be, if you think about the stuff that, I just think they're IQs together. would be really, really something. But I also think that Boozer would be amazing. I thought that he would fit with Charlotte really well, but Charlotte may have, may play themselves out of that conversation. We'll see.

But Washington is another one that I think would be really interesting for them. So perhaps a team that already has the athleticism that he doesn't need to bring that because he's just so smart. He can affect the game in other ways. Whereas like if you need that jolt, you're probably looking for DeBonza. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I mean, DeVonza is going to give you a big score.

boring jelt. The thing is if you're going to lean on DeBonse it'll be a creator, like let's say Brooklyn gets the number one pick. I think I would just go into that assuming that like Cam Thomas and Michael Porter Jr. are not going to be a part of whatever we do. MPJ, two games in a row with seven assists, my friend.

New era. On those two games, I'll completely reform everything I've ever thought. Yeah. That would be interesting. I just think those three guys, maybe AJ would embrace it. Maybe the fact that they drafted five guys who like to pass the ball would be

a stabilizing force for that. But I mean, if you're just looking at the other teams here, I mean, Sacramento, I'm sure, would love to get a chance to have AJ DeBonsa. New Orleans, you know, yeah, God bless their hearts. Atlanta. Yeah, Atlanta. It'd be interesting to see how DeBonza would fit in with, if you already have Jalen Johnson,

if you already have Riseschay. Do you go ahead and take him? I assume, yeah, if he's on the board at three. I would assume that Boozer overlaps with Johnson more than DeBanza would, just because it seems like Boozer is destined to be a four, whereas DeBanza seems like he has a little bit more flex positionally. It depends on if you think if Bozer can, if he can have like four or five switch ability in the way that some of these guys do,

I mean, if you're looking at his, let's pull his measurements here, he's six eight and a quarter without shoes. So he's not gigantic. So you're right. but it's about 250 pounds and not crazy long arms either 7-1 and a quarter wingspan and hands are yeah okay um but uh yeah i actually think Washington is the most interesting team for for booser right now um because if you imagine playing him with some two three four kind of switchability with with next to saar i think it could be pretty interesting if you keep kulibali in there uh i just think he would do wonders

for like bub carrington and trey johnson i think that if you put booze with those guys. It would make their lives so much easier. Poor Kishon George. He'll benefit to know. I mean, Kishon's a little more prepared. Bob's got a little of that stuff. I just think that Kishon getting into the pain, he's a little bit ahead of Bob at this point. But yeah. Okay. Let's talk about the last two guys you have in your list here, who frankly I'm probably more excited about, if only because these seem to be guys who, just in the short

amount of college basketball that we had this far, have really opened eyes. I watched the Mikel Brown Jr. game against Kentucky. And I was like, let's fucking go. What's in the show actually right now? I don't think we need to talk about that game at all. So you were there. And so you probably saw what I saw. But the guy that jumped out to me with Brown was he had a little lamello in him.

And the good version of lamello where it's like head in the clouds, carefree, we'll pull up from anywhere. But there's just this general sense of like. buoyancy about him where he's just making things happen and just like having fun and everything is just a jaunt down the dewy meadow you know um i just i just love him it was like it was so much fun watching him play i don't care for a dewy meadow man because you look down it doesn't matter what kind of you have to have like vortex shoes on if you're going down you wear leather it gets wet it's going to stink you're wearing you know athletic shoes you get the mesh in there your socks are wet. I'm just Dewey Meadows. Not for me. I was going to say the cloud that I have here,

I'm not marrying myself to this, but this was a flyback kind of thing. Just a just a cloud of players. C.J. McCollum, Tyler Hero, Bradley Beal, Manuel Cookley, Jamal Murray, just movement, light, breezy shooters. He can pass the ball. He showed a lot of ability to get to the rim. I was, I was kind of looking ahead to that matchup. I had seen the sort of, he's a guy who's stresses your off ball communication. Granted, Louisville has a lot of those guys. And the way that I saw Kentucky communicating off the ball before they played Louisville, I was like, if they do that again, Michael Brown is going to whip that ass. And he did. He's, he is tough, man. And he's a big time competitor. They had, I was at their exhibition game. He played Peterson in the first game.

And Peterson played amazing. And Michael Brown was really pressing and trying to kind of rise to the moment. He settled down. But yeah, man, he, he, he, absolutely looked like that dude. They measured him at 6.5 in 2024 at the Adidas. Louisville says he's 6.5. I don't know because I'm sure I'll hear about this. But he maybe had a gross berate, but in 2024 at Adidas, All-American, he was at 6.1 and 3 quarters without shoes.

But long arms, 6-6.5 wingspan and big hands. So kids from Orlando, but he's somebody, let's say that Nola gets in the position where Atlanta is going to be picking for them there. I think Atlanta would be an interesting spot for Michael Brown. I agree. Yeah, just as like the Trey successor, because how many wings can you really have on a team?

Like, I guess Infinite is okay, see he has shown, but at the same time, like I think Atlanta would like to turn the page and if they have the opportunity to Brown makes sense to me. It seemed like, correct me if I'm wrong, the shooting and the passing was known. And as you alluded to, there was like a growth spur that may have solved or like gotten him better at the finishing stuff.

But the finishing is where the concerns lie. Is that fair? That's where they were just because. And that's a common question for all the guys that I mentioned. That was a thing. It's just like these games uphill. We need the balancing part of the downhill stuff. The thing about Atlanta going back to that is just, and it's a positive for Mike Lowe, if you haven't watched him, is that he's, he is kind of like Murray a little.

little bit in that he can run some ball screen he's going to hit that dribble pull up stuff he can make a lot of different types of passes um but he's a little more scheme versatile whereas you know he can roll out of a pick and roll doesn't work he can go to the weak side come off of a you know stagger and come back like he's willing to play that way and able to play that way in a way that Atlanta for years frankly we were always just like man i wish tray would just be stepf curry or you know whatever that unrealistic conversation we had over and over again um michael is capable of you of that in a way that I think would really benefit Atlanta and be a peace for them.

And they can bring him along slowly, which would be a nice positive too. So the last guy we have here, Caleb Wilson of North Carolina, I couldn't figure out a comp for him. I just, I love him as well. He had that one play where they got a turnover on a full court press and he just yelled out like he just won the lottery. And I was like, hell yeah, this is my guy. I thought he was doing the old man pickup move where, you know, the old guy who can't really can't really play anymore.

They do that, like, they yell the name of the other person and they throw it to him mistakenly. I thought that happened in transition. I hate people do that. No, I don't totally have a great comparison for him yet. You're hearing me say this over and over again because I haven't really committed to any of these yet. I'm just kind of thinking about them still. But if you want to talk about size-wise, I mean, they say he's 16, but do you look at his, frame he's got gigantic shoulders um he's interesting in that he is very very explosive around the

rim like he can get up get high quickly but he also has funky game in the middle too at times um the thing about him is um i i trust him to switch his switch ability might be crazy man i mean it might be it might be one through four credibly maybe even some five at uh on dabbling in five at at times um ogee i don't want to throw that out i mean he he has that body type man he really does i'm glad you mentioned him because i was thinking of guys who are huge because he's like what six nine six 10 but powerful and just like springy athlete like he was dunking all over guys and like i was thinking of ace bailey if only because we had just talked about him but in terms of like that like he's just so big but brings like much more flex to him than a typical

big man like he seems like he's probably more of like a power wing than anything else it seems like he's still like harnessing his body and his tools too. But good God, if he can, like he did in that game, frankly, and most of what he was doing seemed to be back to the basket stuff. Like, he could be something. Yeah. I think there are a couple more wrinkles, too, to him that make him really, really interesting. First is that I think he's a better passer than people maybe you're going to realize. Like, he made a lot of high, low passes in that game that were great. He's willing in a way, he's ahead of ace in terms of he's willing to kind of move with the flow of the stream. and not just damn it up in any reason just because he wants to. He's not going to be doing that. But the other thing to speak of the other side of my mouth is that he is capable of creating for himself.

Now, he's not great going downhill dribble in the ball yet. OG had to work there. Not that OJ's the standard that he has to get to, but just for a comparison, he's working towards that. Right now when Carolina uses him, they are kind of posting him up in the high post, similar to the way that Ace was posted for Rutgers. And he's making those like no dribble fades at a surprisingly high clip and showing some touch. So if you're going to get a defender like that, who can hit open shots, who's going to be able to move the ball, I could see, I said this in a video I did for social the other day that I can retweet or you can go find if you're curious because I have some clips on there to kind of reference what I'm talking about. He's going to be an analytics darling for this class. He's going to have a steel percentage off the charts.

He can pass the ball. And I could see people hipstering their way into talking and being like, if AJ's not efficient as a score, if he's not a playmaker, blah, blah, blah. You could see people working themselves to that kind of conversation. I could see it happening. Well, speaking of hipstery, just before we go here, is there anybody you want to claim territory on right now? Are there any sleepers you're watching? Are there any guys that we just haven't even talked about? where you're like this is the guy at the very least like i have my eye out oh uh i mean there's a

handful of guys i'm not going to i mean i'll throw some names out for people um there's some sleepers here i'll go a little a little deeper on a couple um granted if you if you follow the draft this isn't for you hipster draft people turn plug your ears or just be tolerant for a minute um i mean malik thomas for arkansas is an interesting kind of volume kind of bucket getter scorer. If you want to watch him, he's fun. Hanna Steinbach for Washington. Washington has a really interesting team if you're wanting to get into watching college basketball. I would recommend it. Labaran Phelan for Alabama has been one of my favorite players for a long time. Last year when our board first came out, I had him at nine and people were like, are you taking your meds, Kyle?

And then Yaxel Lindaborg, another guy for Michigan. There's a fun player for Virginia Tech called, called, it's his name, Neocles Abdalas. Somebody tell me, me, I was saying of dollars wrong. Maybe I am, but we'll figure that out later. He is a big, you know,

6-8, almost 6-9, kind of a Dennyovdi-type player can really pass the ball. Let's go. Has a fun pace to him. Justin, you like him. You should check him out.

It's just, he had a real big outburst the other day against Providence, and people were like, okay. So we'll see, we'll see how much

he can sustain that, but he's very fun. And then a guy to keep an eye on that is interesting. interesting is is jane quaintiffons for kentucky um he's he's a guy who's very young still only 19 years old but he's kind of a jalen durran bam type of like a scheme switchy can guard everybody just built like a like an ant from lord of the rings like he just is this just tree of a person like you know i don't know uh so yeah he's somebody that's just a handful of guys uh among many

more to talk about what team doesn't need to end you know for sure just nice the size but also, yeah. Yeah, the steadiness, the veteran leadership. Yeah. We'd have to call full-time outs every time because if you had any commentary, it'd speak so slowly, you know, that's something you'd have to figure in. But this is all very, this is all kind of, you know, virgin-y kind of talk. But, yeah, I think it's.

Yep. That's true. No one is arguing otherwise. Cut that part out. Why did I say that? No, no, no, no. We're leaving all of your good stuff in here. I was already asked to cut out like nine different things.

Cut that out too. Cut Justin's saying that out. Cut that also. Okay. Okay. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? We'll be back on Wednesday, but we'll also be keeping track of the draft throughout this season. We'll check in from time to time. And then obviously when things really kick off, I think we'll do a little bit more of it. But thank you very much to Isaiah Blakely and Victoria Valencia, who not only worked through two different recordings, but also suffered through that Rockets game, which went way later than we were expecting. So thank you very much. be back on Wednesday. Rob will hopefully

still be alive and joining us. Where's Rob? Is he somewhere headbanging to Parramore right now? Is that what's going on? Where's Rob Mahoney? Yeah, him and Benson Boone, just getting after it. Yeah, I don't know. Not surprised. Lazy. We'll talk about it on Wednesday. We'll talk to you

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